Dave Rubin (3:08)

All right, all right.

Josh Hammer (3:09)

Sorry to admit noted mega celebrity Dave Rubin.

Dave Rubin (3:12)

Yeah. Wow. He really wants on a second time here. This is really something. All right, well, I didn't know you were in South Florida. So we'll have to do this in reality, not just in these little boxes soon enough, but. All right, let's dive in. Ton of stuff happened this week and it was nice, I think, you know, because the Iran war is on this semi ceasefire pause at the moment. It was nice to get back to some of the domestic stuff, although a lot of it was quite wacky. Let's start in ground zero of wackiness, which is New York City right now. And Zorhan Momdami, I call him Moron Zamboni. He's very upset cause he does not have enough of everyone else's money.

Zorhan Mamdani (3:48)

Once again, New York City faces a budget crisis of a historic magnitude. We inherited a deficit larger than any since the Great Recession. Years of mismanagement and chronic under budgeting alongside a structural imbalance between what New York City sends to the state and what we receive in return have taken a toll. We cannot close this deficit with savings alone. We need new revenue and we need a structural reset in our relationship with the state. That is the only way to meet our legal obligation to pass a balanced budget and to do so without imposing a financial burden onto the backs of working people. But we cannot do it alone. That is why we are standing together this morning to underscore what is at stake and to call on Albany to deliver additional revenue.

Dave Rubin (4:35)

Josh, let me start with you. You grew up much like me in the New York suburbs, and there's Always a tension. Oh, you too? Wow. He's a Westchester guy. I'm Long Islander.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (4:46)

You don't know me yet.

Dave Rubin (4:47)

No, Long island, you're a Long Islander. All right.

Josh Hammer (4:50)

All right, man.

Dave Rubin (4:50)

All right, you can come back.

Josh Hammer (4:51)

Get a room, guys.

Ed Henry (4:52)

I'm trying hard.

Dave Rubin (4:56)

All right, so then the questions for both of you. But Josh, I'll start with you first. You know, there's always been a tension, if you know anything about New York politics, between city and state, meaning that Albany, which runs the state, obviously a huge amount of people, I think about 8 million people live in, you know, in and around New York City. So there's always this tension and budgets there. But I want to mention two words that he said as he tries to now fight the state on getting more money. He wants a structural reset. This, to me, is the phrase that we better get in our heads, because I think his plan is to demolish everything, to reset us to something very, very different. What say you, Hammer?

Josh Hammer (5:35)

So this is. Dave. What I like to refer to as the left's euphemism imperative is they use all these fancy sounding words that don't actually mean anything, but they are euphem. They are anodyne sounding buzzword substitutes for something quite a bit more drastic. And maybe the most infamous instance of this in all of our lifetimes was Barack Obama right on the Precipice of the 2008 presidential election when he famously said that we are about to fundamentally transform the United States. That sounds great, right? I mean, we're gonna improve it, we're gonna transform that, but no, fundamentally. One does not seek to fundamentally transform that which he cherishes, that which he values, that which he loves. And it's the same thing here in New York City. You're not seeking a struct of what is the capital of Western civilization, or at least was the capital of Western civilization, New York City. You wouldn't see such a thing if you actually value it and what it represents to. To the people of New York first and foremost, and those are your actual voters or constituents, but also, frankly, to the country and. And to the Western world at large. You're totally right, by the way, that that New York City Democrats and Albany Democrats have had a somewhat tense relationship, really for my entire lifetime, I guess. But we saw that actually happen a little bit earlier this year. Mamdani basically tried to increase the New York City municipal budget by somewhere between 10 to 20%, give or take. And by the way, it was already really high. The New York City budget is like Roughly the same as our state, the entire state of Florida. And by the way, by the way, we have a rainy day fund here in Florida in New York City. They actually are running out of money.

Dave Rubin (7:07)

And no income tax.

Josh Hammer (7:08)

Yes, exactly. No, it's an income tax. So Mamdani went to Kathy Hochul earlier this year, and. And he got a very chilly reception there. So he's not making a lot of friends when it comes to New York Democrat circles. He's also going down in the approval ratings. I saw a poll that came out maybe about a week and a half, two weeks ago or so that showed that he has declining approval ratings among both Hispanic and black New Yorkers. So I'm not entirely sure exactly what his end game is here. Dave, to be honest with you. What I do know is that one of my favorite quotations that I cite a lot on my own show was from the early 20th century by H.L. mencken, who was a social critic, newspaper columnist. And he said, democracy is a theory that the common man knows what he wants and he deserves to get it good and hard. And we are seeing that playing out in real, real time in New York City.

Dave Rubin (7:52)

Ed, now that I know you're a Long island guy, I'm sure you spent many years getting on that Long island railroad, going into the city and probably spending money and going out to dinner and doing business and all of those things, just like I did. It's interesting, another two words that he said, chronic. Under budget, there's no amount of money you could give him, right. What would be the number? And they can never come up with a number that we could say, okay, you know what? Just take it. Fix everything. There is no number, Right.

Ed Henry (8:19)

Because I agree with Josh Said. But I'd add one other thing about this structural reset, right? The other word for that is bailout, Right. I think it's just like a fancy way of saying, I need a bailout. Right? And if you think about the symmetry of those comments from Madani, the same time that in New York City, where he is obviously in Washington with the president, you had King Charles in town. It was the British prime minister, the late one, Margaret Thatcher, of course, famously said, the problem with socialism is pretty soon you run out of other people's money. Right? Because that's what Mamdani's trying to do. He promised the free rent and the supermarkets. The free rent's not coming. The free buses is not, you know, or at least a rent freeze, I should say. The free buses never materialize. The supermarkets. He's Going to do one for each borough. But the first one's not coming for like two or three years. And it's so far over budget already. Like, you know, like Aldi, you saw this, the supermarket change said we could build a new one for like a million dollars. And he's saying it's like, I don't know, 30 million.

Spencer Pratt (9:14)

30.

Dave Rubin (9:15)

30 million. And one in is. That's five. One in each borough. There are five boroughs. 30 million a pop. And yeah, you should be able. Yes, I can accept that building in New York City. But why do they have to. His whole thing is we have to build it from scratch. Why don't you just take one of those gross ass grist and you know, and some bodega redo it.

Ed Henry (9:34)

Yeah. Some guy would take a buyout who's got a bodega and make it really nice. The other thing is he had Ken Griffin. Right. So I think Josh is making an important point. And you mentioned, you know, about the tax base and you were saying you come in from Long island on the railroad, spend money in New York City.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (9:50)

Who wants to go to New York

Ed Henry (9:51)

City and spend money? Ken Griffin's this billionaire who's really decamped mostly to South Florida.

Dave Rubin (9:56)

Right.

Ed Henry (9:56)

He's got a big footprint in Miami, where you are. He's also around Palm beach, where I am. He's building these big houses by, by the President near Mar a Lago. It's, it's famous, all the money he's spending.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (10:08)

But he's still saying, I want to do deals in New York. I love New York.

Ed Henry (10:11)

He's got this pied a terre, which is massive. Yeah. Is it excessive? Sure. But this is America. It's capitalism. If the guy's rich and he wants to buy extra apartments, who cares?

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (10:20)

And now Mamdani stands in front of Griffin's home at a time when, by

Ed Henry (10:25)

the way, CEOs and others obviously have been assassinated and targeted. When you put him on blast and say he's a bad guy.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (10:32)

And what does Griffin do? He says, you know what, I'm going to pull out of this business.

Ed Henry (10:36)

I think it's like a six or eight billion dollars deal. Citadel was building like new headquarters in Manhattan.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (10:41)

They don't need to do that. They have a better deal in Miami. But they said, you know, like Jamie Dimon and JP Morgan, we still want to have a foothold in New York.

Ed Henry (10:49)

We still have.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (10:49)

Now they may just pull the rest of their employees out. So where does that leave New York City?

Ed Henry (10:54)

It leaves them screwed. That's the technical term.

Dave Rubin (10:56)

You know, I'm so glad you brought up the fact that he stood outside of Ken Griffith's department because it's not that he's against billionaires. Note he didn' go to outside of George Soros son, Alex Soros. He didn't go outside his pied Terre, which I'm sure is probably even bigger and he has many more of them. But he went to Ken Griffin's, which in essence was. Guys, when we get to the end of Gangs of New York or the end of Dark Knight Rises, this is the type of building you'd want to burn down. This is where you're going to find all the fancy women with the fur coats and everything. One of the things I've been thinking about or talking about since the rise of Momnami is that it's not just New York, that if he's able to fake it for a while, we're going to see this thing scale across blue cities. Check this video out from Seattle's. Seattle. Seattle had a crazy leftist mayor. They voted him out. And of course what happens, you vote in somebody crazier. They've got this woman, her name is Katie Wilson and she's asked about the millionaires now leaving Seattle. And look at this response.

Josh Hammer (11:50)

I think the claims that millionaires are going to leave our state are like super overblown. And if you know the ones that leave like bye.

Dave Rubin (12:04)

Josh, like super overblown and if you leave like bye and like who needs money and what's math, you know, they're

Josh Hammer (12:12)

already reaping the consequences. A little bit of that in Washington state. I think Howard Schultz, right, the former CEO of Starbucks and he's no conservative. Howard Schultz is actually a former Democrat mega donor. I'm not sure if he still is after this latest bit of heist, but he's already announced that he's decamping, if he hasn't already decamped by now, to Florida, to our neck of the woods. These things have real life consequences. California, Dave, your former stomping grounds out in California. Just this past Sunday they announced that they had enough signatures to get this billionaire tax on the ballot this November. The numbers out of that are astonishing. I saw this, this new, this new study from the California Tax foundation which said that already, already they estimate that 770-ish billion dollars in wealth has already has already fled in advance of this thing going into effect. I think Peter Thiel last December and that's what he was going to make Florida his more full time residents to avoid this thing. And it kind of raises the obvious question and that Kitty Wilson. Ho ho, ha ha. You know, Gavin Newsom, hahaha. I, you know, who do you guys think is actually creating jobs? It's a very rudimentary point, very basic point that I think gets lost there. But you know, you know, look, roughly 2/3 of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. That's a very unfortunate reality, but it actually is economic reality. And I feel for a lot of these people for sure. But these folks are not the ones. By sheer obvious facts of their paycheck situation, they're not creating jobs, they're trying to get by. You actually need wealthy people to start business, to invest in capital. And I feel like a lot of this basic economics 101 has gotten so lost most of the people on the left, a couple of people on the right I would add as well there. But it's just common freaking sense that when you lose people, you're going to lose your tax base. You're going to lose by the way the way to pay for infrastructure, bridges, municipalities, public transportation. There any decent society needs wealthy people. It is natural and is proper and is right to have a full panoply of people all across the income and wealth spectrum.

Dave Rubin (14:07)

So obviously I agree with that. So Ed jumping from that point when she's like okay, like bye. And Gavin Newsom celebrates when Elon leaves and everything else. I don't think they're dumb. Well, I don't know her specifically, maybe she's dumb, but Gavin I think is a lot of things. I don't think he's dumb. So what do you think? What do you think the play is there because Gavin or when Zorhan does this, he knows he's forcing people out and he knows they need money. So what?

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Dave Rubin (14:59)

Wayfair Every style, every home. What do you. If we were trying to steel man, I suppose what their argument is, what do you think it would be?

Ed Henry (15:06)

It would be that what Fires up the left wing base right now is let's get the tiki torches and, and get rid of all the capitalists, right? I mean, that's the only way that this knucklehead in, in Seattle, you know, got elected. And she knows those are the people. Look at Spanberger. I mean, there's these clips out there of her talking about what fuels us, right, Is what rage is, what she says. And she was supposed to be a moderate when she ran, but realized wasn't

Dave Rubin (15:29)

going to redistricts, by the way, let's not forget.

Ed Henry (15:31)

And it flipped on that, by the way, it's not just Howard Schultz moving to Miami this week. What she was reacting to was I think a big chunk of Starbucks's headquarters, some of it is staying in Seattle, but I don't think for long because now they have a big foothold that's going to Nashville, Tennessee, like Florida, another, you know, I think it's no state income tax, right. There's other ones in the south, like in the Carolinas that are low tax, low income tax for the state. So they're drawing all these companies, these jobs, and then people who don't want to live, live in Seattle anymore because you got to step over the, the needles, the drugs, the homeless, just like Gavin Newsom's California. And that billionaires tax all of these liberal billionaires, like you were mentioning Soros before. It's not just the Ken Griffins of the world. It's. So the Californians are like Zuckerberg, right? Some of the founders of Google and others who have already said they're going to Miami and other places.

Dave Rubin (16:25)

I mean, Zuckerberg just, just Zuckerberg just bought Sergey Brin. I drive by his, his yacht all the time. I mean, they're here.

Ed Henry (16:33)

But did you see Chamath, who's on another podcast, not as good as yours, but another podcast?

Dave Rubin (16:38)

No, we do. I think I know what you're going to say and we do reference him often. It's okay.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (16:42)

So he posted this thing I'm sure

Ed Henry (16:43)

you probably saw this week that basically said when you read the fine print, you know, of this billionaires tax, there's a provision later in there that says once this passes at a later date,

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (16:55)

like if all these knuckleheads in power think they need more money, it becomes

Ed Henry (16:59)

like basically a middle class income tax. It's not just for billionaires. So that's the biggest lie.

Dave Rubin (17:05)

All right, Henry, you can come back on the show because yes, we even played that clip and read that very thing. So You've done your research. He's back on Hammer. You're hanging on by a thread at the moment. Let's talk about. Let's talk about. Well, it's a similar theme, but let's talk about Los Angeles for a second because this guy, Spencer Pratt, who's. I'm not a reality TV guy, but I guess he was in Malibu. What was it? Malibu guys of Malibu did something in Malibu. Something reality tv. What was it? The Hills. Okay, he was in the Hills. He's been a reality TV guy. Not somebody that wanted to get in politics. But everyone knows the trajectory of la, particularly post Covid and what a disaster it's been. And then he really got involved because of the Palisades fire. The mismanagement beforehand and then really subsequently after cuz his house burned down. Check out his campaign ad. He's running for LA mayor right now.

Spencer Pratt (17:52)

This is where Mayor Vass lives. You notice something? Or here where Nithya Raman's three million dollar mansion sits. They don't have to live in the mess they've created. Where you live. This is where I live. They let my home burn down. I know what the consequences of failed leadership are. That's why I'm running for mayor. For my sons and the rest of us Angelenos that want to stop these corrupt politicians from destroying, destroying our city. We are going to get the golden age of Los Angeles back.

Dave Rubin (18:23)

Hammer, a moment ago we all rightly, I think, pointed out that having Mamdani stand in front of Ken Griffin's place was, let's say classless at the least, if not directly dangerous. Here I think it's a different thing. He's going to the elected leaders homes and saying look how they live. While not only did my house burn down because of them, but also look at the urban chaos that they've created in the other places. I don't see these things as equal.

Josh Hammer (18:50)

So first of all, let me say that the Palisades fire is a horrific tragedy that we still don't have all the answers for. Dave, I actually, my wife and I, who you know, we were out in Santa Barbara for a wedding last Memorial Day for a couple whose house burned down just a few months prior actually in the Palisades fire. So I have friends whose house burned down and I don't really know Spencer Pratt's exact situation. If he's actually a reality star, which is news to me because like you, I don't really follow him, then I presume that he has enough money. He's not Literally living in what we saw there. But I guess I might be surprised. I mean, I guess my big takeaway from that video, Dave, is just the sheer level of venom and, and, and anger. And some of that is undoubtedly justified. I mean, Los Angeles has been run into the ground for decades. You famously fled there. The last time I was there, we encountered countless homeless people and needles and feces and all the, all the garbage on the street there. It's an absolute, absolute, absolute cesspool. But I mean, maybe I'm naive, but I would prefer to live in a country where it's not just this level of anger that is going to make a city like Los Angeles great again, offer something positive. I mean, Ronald Reagan was the governor of California. Admittedly that was a lifetime ago. It was literally a lifetime ago. But try to paint a positive vision there. Instead of saying throw the bums out, maybe you take throw the bums out, maybe you mix it with, oh, I don't know, like one policy idea to actually tangibly improve the day to day lives of Angelenos there. When it comes, it comes to crime, when it comes to homelessness, when it comes to drugs, that's probably, frankly asking too much, to be honest with you. I probably sound a little naive just for saying that there. But in theory, I think that's what I think a lot of voters would like to see.

Dave Rubin (20:28)

Probably interesting because as someone that lived there and fled very publicly and I didn't want to move, I had just bought a new house a year before I moved that I thought we were going to live in for the rest of my life. I get the anger, I get the anger. I don't know the rest of his policies. But Ed, what do you think about that? Just sort of conceptually, if people on the right and I don't even know that this guy's really a conservative or a Republican. I mean, he's a, he's a Pacific Palisades guy. Yeah, probably. He's probably like an old school mugged liberal, basically. Yeah, that would be my, that would be my guess. What do you think the best tack is there to push back against these guys?

Ed Henry (21:00)

I think the best is to go with the competence argument, I think, because that's what he's doing. Two things. One, he's saying that Karen Bask is, I think he's running in a Democrat primary and there's a lot of people running against her is incompetent. Right. And she was in Ghana, right, at the inauguration of a new president when Pacific Palisades and Part of Malibu were burning down. These are just facts, Newsom.

Dave Rubin (21:25)

And they had warned her. And they had warned her.

Ed Henry (21:26)

They warned her. And phone calls keep coming out, like people taped calls and different things. Text messages suggesting she was warned, she was downplaying. They couldn't get the water out of the fire hydrants. Like all that stuff that's been well documented. And I think the theme in that ad too is they're not like us, that they really don't get where real people live and how they live. It was my point earlier about Florida versus New York and frankly, I think to bring it back to President Trump briefly. And then I'll get back to Steve Hilton, who I spent some time with in Pacific Palisades because you mentioned Schwarzenegger and you know, Reagan as governor. Can a Republican win is I think the president has to get back to the common sense agenda. Like I remember listening to the inaugural address just to go 30,000ft for a second. And I'd been to a lot of his rallies in 2024 and earlier and never heard the phrase common sense agenda. But that like crystallized it in the inaugural. Like, yeah, these 80, 20 issues. Right. And now with the war and other things, she's kind of gotten away from it. I wonder in the closing months going into the midterms, if the Republican Party can get back to the common sense agenda incompetence. Like we can get these things done.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (22:44)

I mean, they can't even protect you

Ed Henry (22:46)

in Los Angeles from fires. They can't get the water out of the hydrants. The fire chief got fired because she was ridiculous. She was a DEI hire. Right? There's a million examples of this. And so I was out in Pacific Palisades on a personal trip last July. It happened to be the six month anniversary of the tragic fires. And I called Steve Hilton, he said, well, come on out on the trail. I'm doing a six month thing.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (23:09)

And do you know what Gavin Newsom said? And I hope people hold this, hold

Ed Henry (23:13)

him on this one. He said we're gonna have a Marshall plan, that's his phrase, to deal with rebuilding. And how many homes have they rebuilt? I haven't checked, but recently it was like one home, maybe two homes, right?

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (23:24)

And all of them are responsible. And they're all Democrats, just like Seattle and Washington State. All of these states are Democrat run and they're not competent and they take all your tax money, promise all these government servants and they're not even getting the water to you when there's a fire. They're not giving you the bait. Instead they're spending money on leering centers and this. And I know I sound like I'm talking, but this is what's going on. They steal your tax money keeps going up, billionaires taxes that become middle class income, and then they waste money, steal money, and the people in the middle get screwed. That's what happens. Spencer Pratt, he's living in a trailer.

Dave Rubin (24:01)

Well, you know, it's so interesting because on Real Time on Friday Night, Bill, who, you know, he's still a Democrat despite all of this, he finally was like, guys, you're taking all of my money. And it's getting worse. He finally made the connection between, oh, I keep giving them my money and things keep getting worse. So maybe that's a bellwether for something. I like your point though, that the Republicans will have to, before the midterms get back to just common sense stuff. That will work because we know the Democrats, all they have is fear. Here is Timo Obama, because they are

Tamu Obama (24:33)

doing everything they can. It appears to artificially give Donald Trump a Republican majority in the Congress and in the Senate, which of course he's at risk of losing because his presidency has been a disaster and the Republicans have been nothing but sycophants and rubber stamps for Donald Trump's extreme agenda. We're going to make sure that there's a free and fair election in November. And this voting rights decision by the Supreme Court has come late enough in the process that I agree entirely with Mark Elias that at the end of the day, at best, it may give the Republicans an additional seat or two in advance of November of 2026. And then we gotta battle it out in connection with 2028.

Dave Rubin (25:17)

Josh, I'm gonna have you put on your lawyer hat. Do you have an actual hat there? Do they give lawyers a hat? I don't.

Josh Hammer (25:24)

Let me grab off the shelf and grab.

Dave Rubin (25:25)

Probably have a MAGA hat there. Well, first off, he says artificially give the Republicans a majority. It's the Democrats who in Virginia, although it's hung up by the courts right now, went from being the fairest state in the nation, a 51, 49 state voting percentage, to 6, 5 Democrat advantage. They then changed it to 10 to 1. So that seems a bit artificial. Again, it's hung up in the courts, but to the SCOTUS decision related to getting race and out of the redistricting process as it pertains to Louisiana specifically. I don't know, getting race out of our system seems pretty good to me. I thought they don't like systemic racism.

Josh Hammer (26:04)

So the only surprising thing, Dave, about what the Supreme Court did when it came to to the congressional maps this week is how long it took for a very common sense ruling like this to come down. So the Voting Rights act famously passed 1965, one year after the Civil Rights act as part of the great civil rights movement legislation. And it's been litigated in court numerous times. So actually in 2013, there was a similar case called Shelby county out of Alabama involving the Section 5 coverage formula. This litigation involves a separate section, Section 2, which essentially says it's actually very convoluted, overly lawyered phrasing, surprise, surprise. But the dumb it down, what it basically says, Section 2 of the statute is that states and localities cannot abridge the right to vote on the basis of race. It's phrased in kind of a very vague kind of anodyne, signed sounding away. Here's the catch. The catch is that for decades, for decades, politicians have interpreted that as essentially carte blanche's license to create what is commonly referred to as majority minority districts in certain states. So they essentially carve out these black majority districts in what are largely white conservative states, states oftentimes the South, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And the problem is that when you interpret Section 2 that way, it runs blatantly afoul of the 14th Amendment, which the court just interpreted in the big affirmative action case, the Harvard litigation three years ago. They just had a sweeping ruling that we finally said that when we say you can't just discriminate on the basis of race, that actually means you can't discriminate on the base of race. So finally, the court says here at the court this week that no, you actually cannot intentionally draw your maps to take into account race. It is an utterly commonsensical ruling. All the usual suspects are freaking out about it. It's a brilliant ruling. It also is going to have some interesting further litigation repercussions because they could have just gotten rid of Section two. That's actually what Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch would have done. But the opinion leaves Section two in place, but says you can't do it this way. So it's a very, very enticing opportunity here for America. First legal, a lot of these conservative legal outfits now to go on the offense and to basically start suing states like Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, if they don't take the prophylactic action of getting rid of these majority minority districts there. So it's Going to have big repercussions there in net though, Dave, if I can sum up there. Florida obviously big action this week. Virginia hung up in the courts, as you said. It looks to me like on net Republicans are probably going to come out ahead in this great mid decade redistricting battle. And as you correctly alluded to, Democrats only have themselves to blame because you can look at some of these iconic blue states, states like Illinois and Maryland, and just utterly, cartoonishly gerrymandered districts. I mean these things that are just like going like this and that and that, it's unbelievable stuff. So they've been hoist on their own petard and frankly, I think it's glorious.

Dave Rubin (28:55)

Excellent use of the lawyer hat. Ed, could you put on common sense hat and explain, explain to me how what we've had actually made sense in these people's minds. I mean, partly what's going on here is that we checked the numbers on the show yesterday. 83% of black Americans voted for Kamala Harris. So they've got, they've got a lock, a crate. And Trump has increased that both times, meaning the Republican chair. But they have such a crazy lock on the black vote that in essence they have no need to do anything for black people. So to separate race from all of this, I think actually will end up helping black people.

Ed Henry (29:30)

I think you're right. And by the way, great use of the word prophylactic as well if you picked up on that. I think that Josh is really pouring it on now to make sure he's back on the show because he put on the.

Josh Hammer (29:41)

I'm trying it, I'm trying to.

Ed Henry (29:42)

He just ran with it.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (29:43)

Common sense.

Ed Henry (29:44)

I was listening closely to what he was saying because he broke it down really well about how ridiculous these districts have been set up. So common sense. I mean, I listened to Tamu Obama, as you said, Jeffries, who's ridiculous, you know, the cheap version of Obama and all he kept saying was that this was an illegitimate ruling and the court's illegitimate. It's the Trump court, not the Roberts court. And I think about the basic hypocrisy of how every time the Supreme Court or a lower court takes down, strikes down some big Trump action, it's the greatest decision in the world according to Hakeem Jeffries.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (30:20)

And when President Trump says this is

Ed Henry (30:23)

nonsense, Boasberg, like the same guy who tears down everything I do with no real legal backing behind it, any middle of the road lawyer would say, ah, this is a liberal ruling. This is ridiculous. It's not really following the law. It's political, right. Trump rips it apart. Cause he's a counter puncher, as we know. And he goes on shoots.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (30:44)

And then what did Jeffries always say?

Ed Henry (30:46)

There's no guardrails. Donald Trump's a dictator, he's a Nazi. All of these ridiculous things.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (30:51)

When he legitimately uses his First Amendment

Ed Henry (30:53)

rights to say the court is illegitimate. Now Jeffries says it's illegitimate when you, if you just play back what Josh just said, he broke it down in like two minutes. How sound this ruling was by the U.S. supreme Court. And it's bulletproof. Really. So all they have is sticks and stones and it's illegitimate. And they lost. And I think he's right.

Dave Rubin (31:15)

And by the way, they were accusing the Republicans of doing everything they're doing. You know, Clay Travis pointed out earlier in the week that Indiana, which is a red state, they could have done redistricting this entire time, and they've chosen not to because generally conservatives conserve things rather than break things. DeSantis operates a little bit differently, which is, if you guys are going to mess around, we're going to mess back. You know, we're going to mess around 10 times harder. Let me, let me show you. This is Alabama Representative Terry Sewell, Democrat, and she would like to wipe out Republicans.

Terry Sewell (31:47)

What this decision says is that it values partisan politics over discrimination. It's really, really, really. I mean, it takes us back. And so to the extent that it's urging, it's inviting red states to totally take away all the Democrats seats and be totally red. It also encourages blue states to do exactly the same. So I can't speak for my chairwoman, but I take, I take 52 seats from California and 17 seats from Illinois.

Dave Rubin (32:19)

Josh, grab that prophylactic again and help me here. My understanding is correctly, what she's saying basically is not looking at race is actually racism.

Josh Hammer (32:31)

Yeah, that's exactly what she's saying. And by the way, there are two other things to note. One is she's saying blue states. Why don't you do the exact same thing? Newsflash, they literally are. So Massachusetts, for instance, does not have a sitting Republican member of Congress. They've essentially eliminated the Republican Party from the New England congressional delegation across the entirety of New England. So many blue states have actually been doing this for a very, very long time. And news as that may be to Congresswoman Sewell. But the real reason that she is so upset that is because she's about to lose her congressional seat. I mean, she is from one of these majority Minority districts right there in the state of Alabama. So self interest is the only reason that she is kind of giving this, this death stare out there into the audience. And it's true that the court does essentially give its, its, its imprimatur of legitimacy to partisan redistricting here. Here's the thing, Dave, that's been happening for 200 plus years. Gerrymandering takes its, its name from Elbridge Gerry, who goes, who was, was a statesman, a congressman in the very early 19th century, just, just a, after the Constitution was ratified. This stuff goes back a very, very long time. And if you don't particularly like it, if you're not happy with how your state, whether it's a blue state or a red state, if you are a liberal in a red state or a conservative in a blue state and you're not happy with how your people are doing the maps there, you have multiple remedies. First and foremost, go to the ballot box, try to vote them out. Second, failing that, if all else fails, you can do what you did, Dave, and you can leave. That's the beauty of federalism, that's the beauty of our system of laboratories, of democracy. But the notion that every single time that politicians do something that you don't like, it's unfair or it must be illegal, that's not actually how the Constitution works. In fact, Anthony Scalia, the great justice, if I'm paraphrasing here, he once said, it's paraphrased, but he basically said this. He said that if you are of the opinion that everything that you like is constitutionally required and all that you hate is constitutionally forbidden, you're probably not reading the Constitution very well. And I think that's exactly what's happening here. To the congresswoman from Alabama, who probably will be out of a seat rather soon.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (34:30)

Show.

Dave Rubin (34:30)

Wow, Josh really wants back on the show. Yeah, I mean, man, I've never seen anything right now.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (34:35)

Can I get in here?

Dave Rubin (34:37)

Well, let me. Ed, let me throw in one number for you because I think this is interesting. And then take it away. In California right now, which is obviously a huge state, they have 52 representatives. Only seven are Republican. But if you think about how they vote Cali, it's obviously it's a blue state, but about 40 something percent of the electorate does vote Republican, but It's broken down 50, 52 to 7. So again, Virginia had what was the fairest situation?

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (35:01)

Right. And in California, on that point, if

Ed Henry (35:03)

you look at the numbers, I believe Donald Trump got the most amount of votes of any state in the union from California. Because you think, oh, nobody voted for Trump in California. It's all Democrat. No, as you say, Orange county, all kinds of places you get outside these la, San Francisco, blue cities, there's a lot of Republicans, a lot of MAGA voters. So it should be a delegation of, you know, like 30, 24 or whatever the numbers might be, but instead. Yeah, what is it? Seven Republicans? Ridiculous. That alone would probably, if that was done fairly, allow the Republicans to potentially keep power in the US House, regardless of how much of the rest of the country goes.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (35:40)

One other thing.

Ed Henry (35:41)

And you know, and Josh would have read the entire Supreme Court, you know, the briefs and the decision, but has anyone made the point as well, that if, when you make these majority minority districts, don't you dilute the power of, say, black voters or Hispanic voters? If you concentrate Like, I just want to quickly make for people who maybe were being too South Florida centric, but

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (36:02)

when I moved out of the New

Ed Henry (36:03)

York D.C. media bubble to South Florida, and Newsmax has a big operation in Boca Raton in between Palm beach and Miami, I grew up always knowing that there were a lot of Cuban Americans who might be conservative, fled communism, all of that. And Miami was very Hispanic. Right?

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (36:21)

You get around Florida, you see, it's

Ed Henry (36:22)

not just Miami, folks, it's all around.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (36:25)

My newsroom is probably at least half Hispanic.

Ed Henry (36:28)

Of my colleagues who are great men, women, worked at Miami TV stations, worked in the Tampa market, you name it.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (36:36)

My point is, if you just concentrated all the Hispanic voters in Miami and said, we're just going to create one district, you'd have Carlos Gutierrez or someone and have one Hispanic Republican in the U.S. house from Florida instead. Voters of this background, it's not just

Ed Henry (36:55)

Cuban anymore, it's Venezuelan, all kinds.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (36:58)

They have more power because it's more diffuse. They're in more districts. They're voting.

Ed Henry (37:04)

Not just in Miami, in Boca Raton, in Tampa.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (37:07)

I just, it's sort of basic common sense to me, right, that if you just put all of the black voters in one district, say we're going to grab power, actually, black voters might have more power if they were spread out around different states.

Dave Rubin (37:19)

Are you telling me black people. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me black people are individuals and they might think different, they

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (37:25)

might make up their own mind.

Ed Henry (37:26)

Dave, you have to, you have to look at this differently.

Dave Rubin (37:29)

Well, this. I'm shocked and appalled. Guys, let's go, let's go do one other thing before we wrap up this week. You know, it really is nuts how the news cycle moves because Donald Trump, they had the third assassination attempt on his life. Today's Friday, it happened on Saturday. And we, you know, after 24 hours it basically disappears. And that's how normalized this stuff has become. But I want to talk. I'm always more interested in the narrative stuff and how the media deals with things usually than the, than the incidents themselves. So a few days before the White House correspondents dinner, everyone's heard this already, but here is the joke that Jimmy Kimmel did again, I think it was two or three days before that has now caused the major kerfuffle post assassination attempt.

Ed Henry (38:11)

Our first lady Melania is here. Look at. So beautiful. Mrs. Trump, you have a glow like an expectant widow.

Dave Rubin (38:19)

Josh Kimmel claims that. Well, first off, hilarious. Ha ha ha. Do we have a laugh track? Okay, fine. Kimmel claims that it was an age joke, that Trump is just older than her now. I don't care. I asked all my guys. We all watch it together. Nobody thought that. Nobody. Okay. It's fairly obvious what he was doing there. I actually don't think that him being fired would be the best outcome here. There's a million reasons ABC should have fired him over the years. The amount that he gets paid to do a terrible show and how partisan he's become. And he's like the reverse Johnny Carson and all of that. I don't think we get a huge win here if it appears that the administration put pressure on the FCC or something to go after ABC to then fire him. So I love your commentary on that. But also just the general state of how these things just keep happening and, and you know, it'll probably happen again in three weeks and we just keep going.

Josh Hammer (39:12)

Yeah. So first of all, I, I obviously share your team's assessment when it comes to the fact that no one buys this for a second. I mean, this is slightly more plausible than Jim Comey saying that he mysteriously just, oh my God, saw 86, 47 magically in seashells there in North Carolina, Outer Banks Beach. I mean, both, neither of these, he's passes the laugh test, obviously. So no one really believes Jimmy Kimmel. I guess I will say this to begin, which is, I'm a little surprised that he was suspended after his post Charlie Kirk assassination comments, which were bad. But frankly I, I didn't think they were actually as bad as this. I, I think that this was actually considerably worse given actually all that is happening out there. So if you're going to suspend him for either, I'M a little surprised that it happened with, with the Charlie Kirk comments and not with, not with these latest comments on the latter point. Look, Brendan Carr, the chairman of the fcc. I've known Brendan for a long time. He's a by the book guy. I think very, very highly of him. I think that this is part of a broader phenomenon that is happening in our culture right now. And I think it's easy, Dave, to kind of get bogged down in, oh, should the FCC try to go after ABC and Kimmel? Should we be indicting people like Jim Comey or Tish James or this new Anthony Fauci guy for not complying with FOIA and this and that there. But, you know, putting back on my, my, my lawyer hat, so to speak, there. I, I have long been of the opinion that in America's roiling cold civil war that the only way out is through. And what I mean by that is that I'm sorry to just kind of put this bluntly, but we didn't start this. We, we genuinely, honest to God, did not start this. And sometimes, sometimes when you have a bully, it actually really is important from a basic game theory perspective to just punch the bully in the face. Obviously not literally. Don't say hammers.

Dave Rubin (40:56)

Oh, here we go.

Josh Hammer (41:01)

But I mean, I mean, think about it. If the other side, if the other side is coming at you, you have to punch back at some point. Again, it's just basic game theory. And that plays out a little more directly in the lawfare context, for sure. But I would just kind of ask whether or not it comes from the media ginning up of this assassination porn. And that's basically what Ms. Now is. That's basically what CNN is. It's assassination porn. Blue sky is just pure, pure assassination porn. So at some point there's, you do have to kind of punch back a little bit. Is this the best way to do it? I think your mileage may vary, to be honest with you, but on those grounds I think it's probably defensible, I

Dave Rubin (41:36)

also think to the backdrop of what was really the biggest media story for a couple of days, which was that insane interview that Hasan Piker, who's a huge lefty influencer, had with the New York Times where he basically was excusing violence and, you know, against your political opponents. And in this case he was talking about Brian Thompson, the healthcare CEO who got assassinated. It's like, like these things are somewhat connected. Ed, let me have you comment on this. My good friend Sage Steele, who formerly worked for Disney at espn. Here she is commenting on a bit of the hypocrisy around the Kimmel joke. You used to work for abc, Disney. Do you think they're gonna do anything?

Sage Steele (42:16)

I would say it would shock me if they did. Based on history, I will say this. Yes, almost 17 years, Jesse working for the Walt Disney Company at ESPN. They have a history of punishing free speech. But it depends on what the narrative is. For me, it was as simple as saying that I'm against the company mandating you to take a vaccine in order to keep your job while complying. Pulled me off the air, suspended me, took assignments, punishing me for just saying that while complying. Then you have Jimmy Kimmel, who not only mocks the death of Charlie Kirk, but continuously with the hateful rhetoric and now crossing the line, I believe, with what he says said about Melania and Donald Trump the other day. If you're Josh tomorrow, this is your chance not just to send a message to Jimmy Kimmel, but to all the other talent, to the executives, and most importantly to the American people to say we are better than this.

Dave Rubin (43:06)

And let me show you two headlines here because Sage makes an interesting point. She complied. She complied. She just talked about it and got fired. But look at this from Variety. In 2018, Roseanne gets canceled after Starr's racist tweets. She had one tweet about Valerie Jarrett that they said was racist. She at the time had the number one comedy show in America. She got fired. Same company and this 2021 BBC. Everyone remembers this. Gina Carano dropped from Mandalorian after abhorrent post. There's a bit of this is not a two way street.

Ed Henry (43:42)

How about Are you saying Democrats are hypocritical? Is that what you want to suggest?

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (43:46)

I think you're right.

Ed Henry (43:47)

And I think Sage still. I mean, what happens to the screaming

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (43:50)

about Donald Trump shutting down the First

Ed Henry (43:52)

Amendment when obviously the social media companies didn't care about the First Amendment rights of Donald Trump or his campaign and took him off all these platforms and all the rest of it. Especially after, you know, beyond the campaign and covering up the Hunter laptop, then deplatforming him and so many others after January 6, we could go on. So she complies with the ridiculous vaccine policy, but just exercises her First Amendment right and she's shoved aside. Let me put on my reporter's hat for a moment because I want to try to make sure I get that second invite.

Dave Rubin (44:24)

I wish I had a ghost hat. Maybe I'd be better at this.

Ed Henry (44:28)

So, Brendan Carr, a little bit of insight. When the Charlie Kirk thing happened, Kimmel was on the ropes because he was already ratings challenged. They really couldn't defend it at abc. They pulled him off for a while, right. Stations were abandoning him and abc. And what did Brendan Carr you do? He stepped in it. He decided to do an interview or something with Benny Johnson maybe and say we can do this the easy way or the hard way. And then it became he's a mob boss. He's overdoing this. Look at the, you know, the craziness inside the administration that created sympathy and a rallying cry for Kimmel. So why I bring that up now is I think Brendan Carr, having spoken to him and others in that orbit in recent months, learned from that, that you stick to the facts. You don't pour gasoline on the fire like Kimmel's going to self immolate. Right. And so what did Carr do this week?

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (45:26)

He just said, we're doing a review

Ed Henry (45:28)

of some broadcast licenses and people screamed and yelled or whatever. But related to abc. And I think he's going to do. He's a lawyer by training as well. And I think Brendan Carr's going to do a by the book look at these licenses. Are they complying? Rather than, you know, more rhetoric that makes Kimmel look sympathetic, which is hard to do, obviously, because he's not a

Dave Rubin (45:49)

very sympathetic figure to me at this point, especially because we don't want it thrown in our face that we're now screaming about someone being fired. Right. Whether it's, whether it's just or not. To me, if ABC wants to give that guy, I think it's 20 mil a year to do that show crazy. And have it, have it insult half the country. We've already been through it for 20 years. So if he wants it for another year or two while everyone gets their videos and comedy and everything else elsewhere, to me it's like, let's just keep mocking the guy. I don't know that him being fired is the right thing, but ABC should make that decision. I want to do one other thing because you both mentioned Brendan Carr, who is the FCC chairman, ironically. And this kind of ties everything we've talked about on the show together. Disney, which, that little blue blip that you saw on the Florida map we showed before, it's right outside Orlando because that's where I think all the furries who work there live. They are in some trouble with the FCC because it appears they had been hiring people based on skin color for many years.

FCC Announcement Voice (46:47)

Surprise, surprise, the FCC has been investigating Disney's ABC stations for possible violations of the Communications act of 1934 and the FCC's rules, including the agency's prohibition on unlawful discrimination. The FCC determines that calling in Disney's ABC licenses for early renewal at this time under the Communication Act's public interest standard is essential within the meaning of agency regulations. FCC Chairman Brendan Carr discussed it on a podcast with Katie Miller, who is married to White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller.

FCC Chairman Brendan Carr (47:18)

There's evidence suggests that Disney literally was dividing and categorizing employees based on race and gender. And potentially we'll see what the evidence establishes, ultimately giving different opportunities to people based on their race or gender or other protected class. And we're going to get some more discovery from the Disney on that. But that could raise character questions about the company long term.

Dave Rubin (47:39)

Josh it's interesting because I just said that, you know, ABC should be left to their own devices whether they want to fire Kimmel or not. In this case, it's fairly obvious that they violated federal, you know, federal rules and probably several laws as it comes to anti discrimination. Because everyone know this. It was the height of DEI and it's not just Disney that did this, but they were obviously hiring people based on skin color and gender and sexuality and all the rest of the of it.

Josh Hammer (48:03)

Well, that's also exactly among the reasons why our, our governor, all of our Ron DeSantis got into this extended years long fight with the Walt Disney Company, which is one of, if not the single largest employer here in the sun. It's not a, it's not a fight that a governor picks, picks haphazardly, but he did so because they were peddling woke filth and apparently they, they were employing woke practices inside the company itself. But this broader notion of Brendan Carr looking at this simultaneously with the backdrop of this back and forth with Kim kind of takes me back to my earlier point, which is I'm obviously not calling God forbid for the infamous kind of Stalin esque notion of show me the man, I will find you the crime. Rather, what I'm saying is that for decades now, when it comes to lawfare of the left prosecuting Trump and this and that, the grannies outside the pro life abortion clinics, et cetera, et cetera, at some point sometimes you do use prosecutorial discretion and you operate in good faith to find a law that you think that someone has actually violated. And in this case it seems like ABC actually has violated the law. Now so people can connect that in their mind or they cannot connect that in their mind there. But at some point I think they will get the message. You know, Dave, I think a lot about this substack post that our mutual friend Abigail Schreier wrote a few years ago on this very topic where she famously said that short term escalation is probably necessary in the interests of a mid to long term stasis of some sort of stabilization or equilibrium. And putting on my lawyer hat again for the third time on the show, that's not my preferred way of doing this, by the way. I prefer that equal protection is actually a thing and that we're all free and fair. But the point is it's so warped and it's so distorted at this point there that some sort of short term escalation again operating in good faith, assuming that they've actually violated this law there. I think that actually is the path forward for now.

Dave Rubin (49:47)

Yeah, Ed, I mean, it seems to me it's pretty obvious they did this. And if you may remember, at the height of COVID and all that, all the zoom meetings that got leaked from the Disney people, I think Chris Ruffo leaked them where they were talking, talking about hiring, you know, black and trans writers. And you know, there were then employees who were saying, I'm white. And I was told I'm not going to get a job. So it's obvious it was happening there. It seems to me, however, if they go for Disney on this, you're gonna have to go for, basically, you're gonna have to go for everybody. I was, I just mentioned on the show yesterday, I was on a Delta flight yesterday and they still have their 2024 DEI award. On the plane. On the plane, when you get on. Yeah. So you'd have to go for absolutely everybody.

Ed Henry (50:24)

Did the pilot get a DEI award or was it a stewardess or.

Dave Rubin (50:27)

I was like, whoa, I got a white pilot. This is gonna go well.

Ed Henry (50:31)

Oh, boy, you're gonna get in trouble. I'm sorry, I was just looking up the word stasis because I just want to make sure I can hear.

Dave Rubin (50:38)

He's using all his fancy words today.

Ed Henry (50:40)

Yeah, he's just dropping all these big words. Doesn't this bring it back to the conversation where we started, right, with Voting Rights act, which is about race has to be injected. And now you're bringing us to dei and whether it's a pilot, whether it's somebody writing a comedy show or something at Disney, it's like, I grew up Long island, right, Gary, you know, mixed group of people. You know, Irish, Italians, Catholic, Jewish, white, black and it was a melting pot.

Dave Rubin (51:08)

Literally cared.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (51:10)

And my parents just brought us up

Ed Henry (51:11)

as like, you know, you're supposed to like everyone get along, but it's like battle of the fittest. Like you've got to work hard, you've got to make your own way. That's the way it is in New York. York, writ large, pre mum, Donnie or whatever.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (51:23)

But my point is, I don't care

Ed Henry (51:25)

about the pilots, race or whatever. I want the best pilot, right? White, black, male, female.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (51:30)

If somebody's writing jokes or whatever, why does it have to be a black trans writer?

Ed Henry (51:35)

Because they are checking boxes.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (51:36)

If that's the best writer, the person is hysterical. Awesome.

Ed Henry (51:41)

You know, just do that.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (51:42)

And it's like, you know, we're going

Ed Henry (51:43)

to pick a congressperson based on, you know, majority, minority race, or we're going to pick it based on this is a good, decent person who's got America's interests at heart. How about that?

Dave Rubin (51:57)

Well, I'm sorry I have to fire you, Shaniqua, my black trans writer. It's been fun. Thank you for your time here, gentlemen. Henry, you're coming back for sure. You know what, Hammer, hammer, as I always tell you, you were hanging on by a thread, but you used so many words, big words. The prophylactic. You're back.

Guest/Panelist (possibly Gary or another commentator) (52:17)

You can come back in one answer.

Ed Henry (52:20)

He went from prophylactic to porn. He kept using porn. I noticed as well. He's got a diverse vocabulary.

Dave Rubin (52:26)

What hat was that, Josh?

Josh Hammer (52:27)

I'm trying to keep you on your toes, Henry. That's what I'm trying to do.

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