← The Run-Through with Vogue
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Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. This is the run through. I'm Nicole Phelps. I'm on the ground at Paris Couture Week and there's lots to be excited about here, not least of all the couture debuts of Jonathan Anderson at Dior and Mathieu Blaise at Chanel.
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B
Hello, Margot and Buba, Vogue senior beauty editor here reporting live from couture week in Paris. Today. I started bright and early. I went backstage at Schiaparelli 8:00am Paris time and the look at Schiaparelli was very alien skin. This is something we've been seeing season after season at the show. I do feel like Daniel roseberry and Pat McGrath, who was doing the makeup there, have really perfected that ability to give and create skin on the models that just sort of glows and feels like totally couture level unattainable, which I love. A few minutes later, hopped back in my car, was backstage at Dior. It was such a calm and chill backstage, especially for the fact that this show had so much gravitas. Jonathan Anderson's first couture show. One thing I have to say about the Dior show and I've noticed this since. Since Jonathan stepped up last year. We need a shoe camera. All of these shoes were freaky. They were fun. There were these satin pumps that came in, like, a pink and a blue. I was very, very into speaking of Galliano also. He was in the room with us. When he and Anna walked in together, the room, like, went silent with excitement and with anticipation. I was seated across from Carla Bruni. I want to say big feet for me. I've always admired her, found her so beautiful, et cetera. But I also found it very fun for her to sneak a little vape pin during the show. I saw Sunday Rose Walk. Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban's daughter Christian Louboutin was there. He was seated near me. So was Pharrell. Pharrell kept his sunglasses on the entire show. And then when we were walking out, the flood of people, we were trying to leave. Oh, my God.
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The.
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The bodyguards. The bodyguards were climbing over chairs trying to get to their clients, which I found amazing. Hilarious. I just love to people watch, and couture is the creme de la creme of people watching. Okay, back to you. Nicole Phelps.
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C
Checking in late night from Paris. After day one of couture. It was Jonathan Anderson's big day at Dior, his couture debut. At the preview, he admitted to as recently as 3 years ago not being interested in couture. He told me, I was trying to find what the purpose was, but then I applied it to how I love craft, and I realized, well, this is just an endangered craft, so how do you protect it? I appreciated how modern his couture felt, especially his use of knits. You know, couture is often thought of as very structured and corseted, and he rejected all of that. I saw at least one dress that I feel confident I can say will be at the Oscars. We also saw Daniel Roseberry's Schiaparelli show, and, you know, I think he set out to impress. It's a week defined by these debuts, but he really wanted to flex, and that he did with a collection that was quite dramatic and based on lots of different animals, you know, fierce creatures. As fierce as couture gets. I'm very much looking forward to tomorrow when it is Mathieu Blaizis turn to show us his Chanel couture. Today, we're revisiting an especially meaningful conversation. In January of last year, I spoke with Alessandro Michele right before his own haute couture debut as creative director of Valentino. Last week, we lost Valentino Garavanni the founder of the house and one of the greatest designers of modern couture. Listening back now in the middle of couture week, what stands out is how Michele speaks about Valentino's legacy and the power of couture as something made slowly, by hand and with devotion. He reflected on walking the halls of Palazzo Mignanelli, the headquarters of the maison, and on the responsibility of taking the lead at a house so profoundly shaped by its founder. Here's my conversation with Alessandra. Michele, Ciao. Alessandra. I'm so happy to see you, even if it is over. Zoom. And happy New Year to you.
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D
Oh, thank you. Happy New Year. I mean, it's going to be the 2025, so I'm pretty positive. It's my number.
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C
It's a great number. And we're exactly. We're taping this podcast exactly two weeks from your haute cout debut for Valentino. So please tell me. Tell me what your mood is. Like, how excited are you?
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D
I'm. I'm always, like, excited and stressed and nervous and happy. Many things, you know, because it's. It's something that must be like this, you know, otherwise means that it.
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C
We.
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D
I'm not on the right way, so. But I'm very excited and happy because it's. I'm feeling so different, you know, and, yeah, for the preta porte, it's. It's. It's completely different. You know, it's the process, everything. So I'm. I'm curious too. You know, it's. It's like that I'm approaching at something that I. I don't know. I mean, there is a piece of this trip I need to really. To touch it, to see what will be in Paris, you know?
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C
Well, I have to admit that I have gotten a preview of the piece that Rebecca Mead has written for the next issue of Vogue, in which she spoke to you, and you speak a little bit about how the process of making couture is different than ready to wear. And I wonder if you would dig into that a little bit here. I mean, there's a sort of a quality of building it from the foundation up, from the ground up.
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D
Yeah, I think that the first thing that I would like to say, that being here in this house that is not really a brand, you really feel it, that everything started from the haute couture. I mean, it's. It's almost everywhere, you know, the. How can I say, the shadow of that culture, you know, snaking in every car with their room, hands Brain People are almost working here. Different. You started to think in a different way. You know, every single piece, every single thing that you do. So I was very curious to. To investigate, you know, with my body, my eyes, my brain, my thoughts in what's really different, you know. And the first thing that I met, it's the. This unbelievable place that is the salon. Full of incredible people that they. It's like every, every single person is like a little wizard or kind of, you know, witch or something, I don't know, magical and everything. It's under a spell, you know. When you walk inside the laboratory, it's. It's like to be in another place, but also in another. In a space of time that doesn't exist, you know. So it's. It's incredible. You know, you. You see things that I never experiment before. Like working on a piece for days, days, hours and hours, you know, and that's very different. And all the ritual of the making, it's completely different.
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C
Just the chance to use your hands so much and to see these beautiful things that you're at. The petite man, as I think they're called, the things that they can do with their hands.
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D
Yeah, they, they. They do things in incredible things and they, and you, you can work in just one piece. And you have to dedicate all of, all of you to every single piece for hours and meeting appointment. It's like a body, it's like a person that you are like building or making, you know, from zero. It's like a piece of architecture, a piece of, you know, it's very. I mean it's. I think that it's something that people should see because it's very hard to explain. It's like when in front of something that belongs also to the nature, like a sunset, you know, you will spend hours, you know, to describe maybe shades, you know, lights. The volume that you see in front of, you know, the, the light that is building that volume. That incredible thing that you are seeing but you can't really explain with the words, you know. So I mean, every time I saw the, the dress and the things that are on way, you know, and they are going to finish, you feel like. I don't want to say stupid things, but you feel like a kid. I mean, I'm working from a long time, but I never felt like this. So I mean, it's really incredible.
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C
How would you say that it's unlocked your creativity.
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D
I think that that process and this experience open different doors, you know. I mean, in a way, at the beginning I thought that it was exactly the same, you know, so I was going and I started to walk with the same process and I found, you know, like a voice that was like whispering, you can, you can go on in the same way. Because I mean, I think that I just trying to take off from my brain, I think that I was like trying to understand what's the connection in the process between doing, you know, woman ready to wear shoe and a haute couture show. I was trying to understand what I had to change in the process because it's like that you need to spend a lot of time in just one piece, you know, and it's something that you can do really on the ready to wear because you are working like in thousand pieces and you have also to work, going, going on, on every piece. If you choose, if you put together the things. This is like a single poem. You have to, to sing just one song. Every time when you look at that dress, you have to be concentrated on that dress. You have to give to that dress all of yourself in a very deep way. It's like a love affair, you know, it's. It's like that you are dating because every day I didn't decide, Nicole, they, they choose me. I mean all the single group of tailors, they were asking for an appointment because there was like a date. Meeting that body that came from nowhere, you know, because you are so free that you sometimes you like creating your own, like monster, you know, thing together. The things that came from somewhere very deep inside your, you know, mind, brain, heart, stomach. So it's a very deep meeting, very intimate and just with one person. It's. Every single dress is a like a story, many words, many thoughts, man investigation.
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C
More with Alessandro Michele after the break.
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You come to the New Yorker Radio Hour for conversations that go deeper with people you really want to hear from. Whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Questlove or Olivia Rodrigo, Liz Cheney or the godfather of artificial intelligence, Geoffrey Hinton or some of my extraordinarily well informed colleagues at the New Yorker. So join us every week on the New Yorker Radio Hour. Wherever you listen to podcasts.
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C
And we're back. When I met you in September, before your Ready to Wear debut, you talked a lot about the Valentino archives. And I wonder if you're looking at archival or vintage couture a lot through this process. You also just mentioned that there are many other references that you're weaving into the work.
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D
Yeah, the archive here is a presence. I usually say that it's a part of the story that you can ignore. You know, it's strong, it's fascinating, seductive, it's snakey. You try to ignore sometimes it's still here and it's strong. Yes. I went to the archive as usual and, and everything started from a dress, you know, was so big, the ocean that I was trying to look at just a little piece of something that was really interesting. And I started from a dress of Valentino and I was reflecting probably and I'm sure how Valentino, Mr. Valentino loved culture and probably cinema and history of heart. I think that he, I mean looking at some pieces, you can really recognize that he knows very well many things, you know, many interesting things from the past that he translated in the, in the present, doing incredible and dreamy things, you know, very. Yeah, very sometimes, I mean, looking now at that pieces that I, I didn't remember really, you know, and, and I was trying to think, I mean, why he did what he was looking at and what I have to look, look at why I have to do this process, you know. So, yes, I started from that. I think that I'm going to open with a kind of. I don't want to say a rendition, but an homage to a dress that came from the archive. I mean, I'm still thinking that that dress is going to be the first one that everyone. They're going to see. It's never a copy, you know, it's more that I'm trying to investigate that kind of beauty that Mr. Valentino built. I mean, and I'm not him, and I will not. I mean, I can compare my. Myself to him. I'm. I'm another person. But yes, but sometimes I know that I'm in. In his home and sometimes I'm getting kind of strange suggestions. And yes, I'm processing everything inside my brain, body and experience.
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C
I'm looking at you on this zoom screen and you're in a beautiful space. Can you tell me a little bit about your new office and how you've made it your own?
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D
I mean, that this magical and incredible building that is Palazzo Mignanelli in Piazza Mignanelli. Mignanelli Square in Rome, on a side of Piazza di Spagna. It's an incredible place. First of all, for the soul of this place. It's not about just the beauty of the building of that stunning, incredible things that you're saying. That is a piece of Renaissance, of Roman palazzo. This room. There are on this floor two rooms. One was the room in the office of Mr. Valentino that is a little bit smaller, but so elegant with an amazing ceiling. And this is the space that, for what I got, it's the space that belongs to Mr. Valentino and especially Mr. Giametti.
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C
I'm glad you brought up Giancarlo Giametti, because I was seated a few seats down from him at your show in the fall, and I was so touched to see that he had his phone out and he was FaceTiming with Mr. Valentino, who wasn't at the show. So Mr. Valentino was watching the show while it was happening, and it just, you know, talk about the. The full circle of. Of life or of a brand. It felt very moving to me. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your debut and what are the, you know, the memories now it's a few months later. What do you cherish most about it?
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D
Not easy. Many, many things. If I go back, it's. I mean, it's just yesterday, you know, it's not really a long time, so. But I was so nervous and I felt myself so strange, because outside was such. I mean, I was feeling that incredible energy, you know, that from people that are. That I know, friends and family and colleagues and Jacopo Venturini del was like there with me. And yes, also all the people and giancarlo and probably Mr. Valentino there was not there. But I was surrounded by love. And I remember the. I still keep in my art and in my brain many skies that I saw from the big window of platform when I was working. All these. That beautiful dresses and things. I was always with that incredible frescoes outside the window. I mean, that. That light that you can see just in Paris sometimes. And I spend like more than a week in that incredible place, working with all my energy, love, laughing with all the people that. That were sharing with me that dream. I think that it's been such a great experience, you know, because being for 21 years in Gucci, in another brand and discovering another place so rich and so seductive, you know, And I felt myself like in the middle of. Yeah, a poem, novel, book. Yeah, everything was so magical. I knew and I understood very clear that there is such a big connection between that job and me, you know, and all the beautiful things that belongs to this job. That is such a gift, you know.
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C
So this podcast will be coming out shortly before the couture show, and I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about your plans for how to show it. The show that you did for Ready to Wear for Pret A Porter was, you know, very moody with the cracked glass floor and the furniture covered in slipcovers and, you know, this vibe of, you know, going into the Valentino attic or your grandmother's attic is. Are you planning something similar or will it be more traditional in the traditional sort of salons of couture?
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D
No, it's not looking really traditional, I think, but I'm not sure about tradition. I mean, I'm really bad. Yes, I got it. What you. What you. You know, you mean? No, I'm trying to work. You know, Nicole, when I work, I'm working on a movie of a theater piece. I'm thinking about you that you coming in a space. I need you to show what I'm thinking about and what I want to make you experience. You know, I need to make you take a walk in my brain and in my space.
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C
Take a walk in my brain. That is such a great way to put it. And it made me think of something that I was talking with my colleagues and they pointed out, and I think this is correct, that you don't work with a stylist the way many other designers do. Can you talk a little bit about that?
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A
Why.
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C
Why do you choose not to when a lot of your peers really rely on that stylist relationship?
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D
I think, I mean that's very, I think such a personal thought and such. I'm talking about me. I mean the styling, it's. It's a big piece of the job. Also it didn't came at the end. It started with the. With the idea of the volume of the length of the attitude. Who is that woman? Who is the crew? In which way they gonna. Because where that thing. I mean, you can change in a very strong way the attitude of a dress, of a look changing and putting layers or taking off pieces on finding the face, you know, and I think that it's a hundred percent my job because I'm not a tailor, I'm not a couturier. I respect their job and I like many stylist, I think that some of them, they can get a job also as a. Because a big creative director is not far. In a way. You need many pieces of the cake. It's a lot. It's a big composition. I mean, for me, I like fabric, I like the research. I like to look at the movie, to read the book, to fix the word, to change the hair, to put my hands. I'm the one that work a lot with the hairdresser, with the makeup artist. I mean, I feel myself also like a hairdresser. For example. It's all my job. And it's the most fascinating, beautiful part of the job. I mean, how can you think about a skirt doing just a skirt? It's like that you are writing a line of a poem, but just a line and what is going to be. It's very weird, you know, but I mean, I understand that other people, they like to share and to approach today job in another way. I think that the landscape also the playground is huge. And there are many ways to be. I like to be in this way and I don't know other ways.
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C
One of the many observations that I've made looking at your show again and again in the months after is that, you know, I never wear dresses or skirts, but you have made me wanna buy all sorts of Valentino tights and stockings because there's just so many beautiful tights and stockings in your show and in the lookbooks for the preseasons. So I wanted to talk about the. The people, the real life people who we've seen starting to wear the Valentino Clothes. Colman Domingo looked so incredible at the, at the Golden Globes. And I think the next night, Elle Fanning was in New York City in the loveliest lilac dress. And how does it feel to start seeing these pieces walk out into the world?
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D
I'm happy because, I mean, I'm not the one that try to push people. I like that the friends we met, we knew, they like what I'm doing. They take the pieces from the dream and put in the real life. And the real life started to be like a dream. And hell was amazing. And yes, everybody were amazing. Lana, there is a friend, she was amazing. And new people also came, I think curious to see about, you know, the things that I'm doing. I think that is beautiful, you know, and it's. It's incredible because it's. When I look at the things and I see the things outside from the catwalk, you see something a little different, you know, that it's interesting. You know, you see a piece of your thoughts or things that you know very well, that are very familiar, that are like, embodying other lives and. Yes, piece of other lives, and you see something different. So I think that that's the story of every single dress and that's the story of fashion. You know, that you do things and they. They leave you forever. They gonna walk somewhere that you are not with them. They likely the kids or pieces of your life that are, you know, like, without control. And I like, you know, because the people also interpret it. I mean, it's one of the things that I really love because as you know, I. I have a big passion to be as a also custom designer, to see different faces. It's more connected with life. So I like it.
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C
More with Alessandro Michele after the break.
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F
Come see critics at large live. On February 19th, we're gonna be at the 92nd Street Y in New York City for a conversation about Wuthering Heights. There's a new adaptation coming up starring Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi, and we will certainly be getting into that, but we'll also do what we humbly. I'll say what we do best. Returning to the text, we're gonna go deep on the gothic and Emily Bronte. Join me, Vincent Cunningham and my co hosts Alex Schwartz and Nomi Fry for the discussion. And crucially, if you buy a VIP ticket, you'll join us for an after party too. Go to 92ny.org for more information. That's 92ny.org hope to see you there.
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C
Let's talk about real life For a minute. What have you been reading or watching lately that you've loved? Is there anything that's touched you recently?
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D
There is a movie that I still keep in my heart from years and years, that is Dancing in the Dark with Catherine Deneuve and Bjork. That is the masterpiece. I mean, I never ever watched something like this ever recently, but there are many. I think that one of the most incredible things that I saw recently, it's. It's seeing my two nephews growing, touching my life and my way to see the earth, my life, the future, the light that I see in the countryside. I have a beautiful cozy place in the countryside and I. They are the light piece of. The light of my life. And now they are like giants. And they were like two little, you know, baby. They make me think about the future in such a positive way. They make me think about the light that I see in the countryside as a miracle as they are. That's the things. The most beautiful things that. That make me feel in a different way. It's an easy things and a simple thing. And sometimes I'm very complicated, you know, when I look at them, it's simple, it's just incredible. It's just incredible. When you see that red light in the sky, you know, in the winter, in the countryside at five o', clock, then you see this life is incredible. They are incredible.
- [36:08]
C
You know, I have two nephews too, so I can relate to what you're saying. At the show in the fall, I was really mesmerized by the soundtrack, and I wrote about it in my review, but there was this refrain, joy, we must chase. Joy, we must chase. And so moving. And when I told my colleagues I was interviewing you, and I said, is there anything you want to know from Alessandro? And people are quite curious about your real life, because you live beautifully. And so I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about your time away from Valentino. You spend a lot of time with your nephews, maybe, but what else do you like to do?
- [36:54]
D
I like to do simple things, you know, because I think that I. I changed the simple thinking, very complicated. And I also. I think that I'm really good to select what I really need, you know, Also when I'm trying to do nothing, I mean, I'm really good. When I lived also the company, when I. And I had more than a year just by myself and my things, I discovered that it's so incredible when you find the right way to be just doing nothing, that it's so hard you know, not watching Instagram, no, doing nothing, maybe having a walk in the countryside, you know, for an hour. I mean, I like it, you know, it's. I think that I'm not really good to translate what is my life, you know, because I don't have another life. So it's like if you, Nicole, you ask me about what, what do you. What do you. What is about your body? It's my body. I like my body. It's the. It's. It's the only one that make me walk. It made me, you know, experience. So I like this life. My life is the. The life that I choose from many, you know, experience. And I mean, I started to fight with all the people that were outside my life from the very first moment and year of my life, because I was a little different, you know, so now I'm 52 and I'm. I'm so happy.
- [38:46]
C
What you're saying really resonates for me because of course, when you were had this year and a half to do nothing, as you say, you also wrote this book of philosophy, which we are waiting for it to be translated into English. But there's something about the way that you talk and the way that you design. It's quite. It's all the same as you say. It's similar. And I just wanna. Tiziana Cardini, my colleague, interviewed you and I just wanna read this quote, cuz it's so beautiful. You said that clothes aren't only artifacts, rather they're doors, vessels, hallways that lead us to a different reality, denser, richer, more ambiguous than we could inhabit if they weren't there.
- [39:31]
D
Yeah. First of all, I wrote that book by accident, in a way. Yeah, it's. It's something that belongs to my little nice rich life. I mean, I just did it because we decided to write something that was like investigation about kind of. Yeah. Philosophy, things that the translation is life, you know, and my job and I mean, at the end, it's been such a great experience. Yes, I think that I like fashion because I think that fashion is so just connected with life and in a very immediate and easy way. And also I think that it's addressed, it's like. Yes, it's like a space. It's like. It's like a foyer, a corridor. It's like that you are opening another space and you can habitate that space, you can change. It's very complicated things to explain, but when you find the power that clothes got, I think that it's really incredible. It's. You can Live other life. You can. You can walk. When you are in the changing room and you change yourself, it's like that. You. Yes, you. You like, open a door and the dress. I mean, clothes. It's like that. Whispering, inviting you to. You want to come. You want to walk through. What do you think? You want to. You want to see other places. You want to. You want to try to. Yes. To find other side of your.
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C
I want to ask you one last question. When I think back to your work at Gucci, you know, you really touched a lot more than just fashion. You know, you touched culture. You launched the Gucci vault, resurrecting, you know, the brand's vintage, but you also did so much to help younger designers. I think of, you know, my friend Hilary Taymor at Kalina Street Estrada, for example, and you worked with Gus Van Zant during. During COVID And I wonder what. If you could talk a little bit of what your Valentino dreams are. Some of the ways that, you know, beyond clothes, you hope to touch people.
- [42:11]
D
Not easy to say because, I mean, I didn't really plan at that time. I mean, I was just living and many things happen. And I think that I'm the same person, you know, in the way that I approach. I mean, I. I can see and I can feel the power of this job. And we are in the last 10, 15 years, this power, you know, for many reason. Some of this reason are also sometimes bad, you know, because there is this incredible, beautiful problem of money, power. But, I mean, I would bring here, you know, a new point of view. I mean, fashion can build a better, dreamy place. And, yeah, I will do the same here in a different way with the. I mean, in a different age now. And I look at the things in a different way. But I like young people. I like, you know, I like artists. I mean, it's. I feel so good. Yeah. If I go back, you mentioned Gus. When I look back at that movie that we did together, it's so insane. I. I'm so proud because I did things that were not allowed to do it. And that's my way to. Yes, I would close because maybe I'm not answering in a precise way, because I'm never precise. I can be precise, and I like to do with other people things that are not allowed.
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C
That is a very good way to end. Alessandra, we are going to be counting the days till your couture show. Thank you so much for joining me here.
- [44:12]
D
Thank you, Nicole. Thank you so much. I can't wait to See you in Paris.
- [44:17]
C
Me too.
- [44:18]
D
Bye.
- [44:19]
C
Bye. Ciao.
- [44:20]
D
Ciao. Ciao, Nicole.
- [44:22]
C
Ciao. That's it for the run through. See you Thursday. The run through is produced by chelsea.
- [44:40]
B
Daniel, alex depalma and stephanie kariuki.
- [44:44]
C
It's engineered by pran bandy and james yost. It is mixed by mike kutchman. Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent.
- [45:04]
A
At Vanity Fair and co host of Little Gold Men.
- [45:07]
C
Oscar season is upon us.
- [45:09]
D
Little Gold Men takes you behind the.
- [45:11]
A
Scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood.
- [45:14]
D
There's 100 wrestlers in the room, but.
- [45:17]
C
Only one can be Oscar nominated.
- [45:21]
D
Whether you're a movie lover or an.
- [45:22]
A
Industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race.
- [45:28]
D
Follow and listen to Little Gold Men.
- [45:30]
C
Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [45:35]
E
This show is supported by Odoo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out odoo-o o.com. that's o d o o.com.
- [46:06]
D
From PRX.