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- [00:01]
Unknown Host
Everyone complains about winter. I love the excuse to stay home in January and February. I really commit to just watching TV in bed, watching my, you know, Britbox murder mystery and I am enjoying my Brooklinen sheets. Lloyd, my dog is a big fan. Lloyd is very discerning about linens and he's put his nose right into those pillows. So big plus for Brooklinen from Lloyd Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online@brooklinen.com that's B R O-O-K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
- [01:19]
Nicole Phelps
This is the run through. I'm Nicole Phelps. Ciao. We are taping this a week before the shows begin in Milan, but by the time you hear it we'll be smack dab in the middle of the city shows. I'm really excited about Lorenzo Serafini's debut at Alberta Ferretti. He is a designer who's been waiting in the wings for a big appointment for a long time and he knows Alberta Ferretti's repertoire quite well having worked at Philosophy. So that's one to look forward to. I'm also curious to see what Loris and Simone at Sune are cooking up. They are opening their first retail space in Milan and they think so differently about the Runway. I have a feeling they'll also think differently about retail. Also, all eyes will be on Bally where Simone Bellotti has made such a big impression in such a short amount of time and he's already being rumored about for other jobs. So that is another must see. But of course there's Marni. I love my conversation with Marni's creative director Francesco Risso so much that we had to rerun it. I think of him as fashion's great artist philosopher. So it was really interesting to hear him talk about the of fashion and what inspires him. Please enjoy my conversation with Francesco. Thank you Francesco for being here today on the run through podcast.
- [02:39]
Francesco Risso
Thank you Nicole. It's such a pleasure to see you even with the word farm.
- [02:44]
Nicole Phelps
I am so glad you're here. I don't know if you saw this but in the days after the shows we often talk about our favorite collections on Vogue.com and I named your show your Marnie show, my favorite of the season. I was so moved, and everything came together for me. The set, the live music, the way the collection built from almost spare to quite extravagant. And I was wondering, when you're backstage, how do you know something is working?
- [03:16]
Francesco Risso
Oh, you know, this is actually a great question. I didn't know that anything was working until I had done my bowing and I came back to the backstage, and suddenly I look around at people and I see everyone's crying. And that actually made me really, like, stop for a second. And I was like, wow, wait a minute. I didn't understand what was actually really happening there. I was, like, too taken by putting things back together, like, stitching the last things. Actually, I had to stitch, like, a coat that was, like, by mistake was ripped. And I was there, like, so taken by that that I didn't realize anything until I came back from my bowing. And then, unfortunately, or fortunately, I started crying, too.
- [04:16]
Nicole Phelps
Well, I have cried at other of your shows in the past, which we'll get to later. But I want to talk specifically about spring 2025 and to hear about the Genesis. It was so. It was so different than what you did for fall 2024, when we were in this cave and you had hand painted these very simple sort of garments. This, in contrast, was almost like couture. There were couture shapes. So can you talk a little bit about what you set out to achieve this season, what you wanted to do.
- [04:50]
Francesco Risso
You know, in this particular time, where I think we all can feel this, like, radical changes that happen, like, minute by minute. Like, we look at the world outside, and it's. It can be so inspirational, but also equally so scary. I think after that show in February, we. We had to stop again and think, what is beauty for us? And it might sound banal, because, you know, beauty is. It can be anything for anybody. And for us, it's. I think it's, like, about chasing rabbits somehow. And untangle things, break things. So this is what was about this show, and that's maybe why it felt so couture in a way. I think for us, chasing rabbits was almost like this idea of resistance. And beauty is an act of resistance to me, especially right now. So for a one time in many collections, this collection started from cotton, and that is like, the most incredible tool of resistance. If you think about time. It's that fabric that lasts forever, and it's that beauty that can kind of accompany us like, in everyday life. So it really started from the material and Then into looking back into a sort of, like, nostalgia and thinking, how can we combine these two elements together? Like this material that feels really about resistance, that it's almost like militant, and this idea that the material can express a lot of feelings, and maybe we have to look back in all those universal beauties that are so important for us to make us grounded.
- [07:07]
Nicole Phelps
So let's talk a little bit more about Marnie in general. You've been there, I think, going on nine years. And one thing that all of your observers have noticed since the beginning is that you often refer to the team as your family.
- [07:24]
Francesco Risso
I do.
- [07:25]
Nicole Phelps
Why is community and collaboration such an important part of your work?
- [07:29]
Francesco Risso
You know, I have tattooed in my hands.
- [07:34]
Nicole Phelps
Yes. So tell us what you have. You have tattoos on your hands, and they're of moons, is that correct? On the palm of your hands, it's two moons.
- [07:42]
Francesco Risso
Yes. And it reminds me every day that to me, the most important thing about what I do is about a symbiotic way of moving. And I think I've learned that since I was a child, as I needed to find friends as a family in my pathway. And that I have brought with me in these years also with Marnie and Marnifesto was a sort of, like, click of. Of a change into. Into that even more. When Covid arrived and we did that show that was, like, presented in 16 different cities around the world simultaneously live, that was a moment in which I felt the urge to. For the brand to be expressed by people and to be owned by people rather than the opposite. And. And, you know, in all the collections that I've made since I've started here, I have come across, like, people in the streets, and then they have become our interpreter or even people that I've met in the stores, our clients that have become interpreters. And little by little, all these conjunctions became more and more important. And why I love this symbiotic way of working is because people that comes and goes, they inform what we do, the designs, their lives informs our designs.
- [09:41]
Nicole Phelps
Talk about your own family. You grew up in quite a unique way on the boat for five years, I believe. But then you also lived with a large extended family. How would you say your family informs your design?
- [09:57]
Francesco Risso
Yeah, I have. After I have born on this crazy adventure with my dad and my mom. We have moved finally on land, and. And that's where all the families kind of, like, collided together. So I have a big family that is the composition of many different families together. So my dad had a previous family, my mom had a previous family. There was a moment, a crazy moment where they decided to live all together. So I was living with my five brothers and brothers and sisters, with their parents, their grandparents. It was really hectic and I was the youngest. I was very silent until I started to make. And I think I found the expression of my language through making. Specifically, I started to attack and, and steal from the wardrobes of my family. So from my sisters, from my grandmother, from my mother. Like, I have to tell you, like, my grandmothers had like incredible things and, and yet I started like literally Frankensteining and collaging things and, and that, yes, became controversial even in the family because my sister, trust me, they still, they still remember those moments and they still, they still probably have some hate around it. But for me, it was like my drug. And I couldn't live without that feeling of making and making for myself. And that was my way of expressing myself.
- [11:45]
Nicole Phelps
Okay, we're going to take a quick break.
- [11:57]
Unknown Host
Ready to add a touch of Vogue to your collection? Browse shop.vogue.com for exclusive merch like limited edition mugs. And here's a treat, get an exclusive 15% discount with code VOGUEPOD15 at checkout. Happy shopping. Everyone complains about winter. I love the excuse to stay home in January and February. I really commit to just watching TV in bed, watching my, you know, Britbox murder mystery and I am enjoying my Brooklyn and sheets. Lloyd, my dog is a big fan. Lloyd is very discerning about linens and he's put his nose right into those pillows. So big plus for Brooklinen from Lloyd Shop award winners and fan faves in store or online@brooklinen.com that's B R O O K L I N E N.com get 15% off your first order today. Who doesn't love a little luxury? How about a lot? High quality items aren't a splurge anymore since I discovered Quince. Quince is my new go to for luxury essentials at affordable prices. They offer a great range of high quality items at prices within reach, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters and 14 karat gold jewelry, all priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes those savings onto us by partnering directly with top factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. I ordered very cute kids clothing from Quince. Kids Cashmere is really, to me, an ultimate luxury. And I got a very cute cashmere hoodie for my son Arthur, which he's actually wearing today because it is 8 degrees in New York City. And it's great because he's always getting himself dirty and it can go right in the washing machine, and I'm not worried about it. But he looks very chic. Same for the jeggings that I got for Alice Albert. So very much a fan of Quince Chilton's clothing. Give yourself the luxury you deserve with quince. Go to quince.com runthrough for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q, U, I, N C. To get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com runthrough.
- [14:42]
Nicole Phelps
And we're back. I did want to talk a little bit about your collaborators or your ambassadors. I think you call them interpreters. I know you work with Dev Hynes, the musician. Paloma Elcessor is a model that you work with a lot. What attracts you to these people? Is there something in general about them? I mean, what makes you groove with people?
- [15:06]
Francesco Risso
You know, it's like just. Just the way your question is coming in is giving me goosebumps, you know, because every cycle that we go through together, it's such an incredible journey. I, you know, I work with Dev from the start of a collection till the moment our interpreters are walking in the show. And he's an incredible musicians that have taught me so much. He actually even baptized me into learning cello. And. And I have. And this is like combining a sound to what we make. You know, it adds so much dimension to it. So. So this is how. How we make it. It's not just like, oh, Dev comes and make a playlist for the show. There's actually an intention that starts with maybe, for instance, like, the radicalism of the last show. Let's make it all one in cotton. It was. I was like, oh, maybe they should all be combination of three. And then we. We were like, oh, let's have three pianos together. And that's how the last show came in. But we knew from the start of the collection that we. We didn't even need speakers in the. In the. In the venue to amplify it because we wanted to go raw. We wanted to go as raw as the Cocktail, but as beautiful as beauty can be.
- [16:48]
Nicole Phelps
You worked for many years for Prada, and I wanted to ask you what you learned from Muchia Prada as a designer.
- [17:00]
Francesco Risso
Well, I've learned to be brave in the first place because I remember so many times being, like, swollen in these, like, meeting rooms where, you know, you find yourself with this Incredible woman. I was so young, I was 24. And suddenly you have to speak up for yourself and, and there's a lot of talking and, and you know, it. I remember like months of talking and then like making a collection in one week, basically. So in those times you have to be brave and you have to face the braveness. Braveness, Yeah, I guess. I don't know. As she demands for it. And so that was great, but also like one of the most important things, and that's one of the reasons why in the first place I. I wanted to work for Prada since I was a kid, is that there was like this amazing contrast between. And this balance between this like ferocious creativity, but also the fact that she and Bertini wanted to see those clothes in the streets, on people. And so that was an incredible balance that was always, was always like at the center of, of our making. And, and I remember like months and days where you would. Pushed for the maximum of creativity and then days in which you would flip the cards and just like think about the world and the world that we live in. And that was very important and a great school.
- [18:51]
Nicole Phelps
After Prada, you land at Marni and you know, Consuelo Castiglioni, who had founded the company, had sold it to Renzo Rosso of Only the Brave. And I'm curious, as you arrive there, what did you see as your mission? Did you look at all at what Consuelo had done at Marni? Were you looking at other icons of yours? Where did the ideas for what you did come from?
- [19:18]
Francesco Risso
Well, of course I was a huge fan of Marnie and Consuelo, actually. And I still have printed in my head this image of them on an island dressed in toiles and very naively sewn together because that's, that's how they used to wear clothes in the 90s. And I love that imaginary of them. And yet, like Consuelo and her family did it in such a mysterious and different way than the normal fashion schemes. So I guess like that image of the family for me did became a quest into what is going to be moving from that family business into like a chosen family sort of expression. And I think it was a combination of looking into that and into that naive approach into making things. And I think also be truth to myself, as you know, I cannot be any close to a copycat of Consuelo or a clone of it. So I think maybe at the beginning, like, things were, you know, difficult in terms of combination or like, harder to understand, but it just like it's just about. About time and people. You've entered into a new organism where people function in a certain way. And it's almost like you're starting to seed new plants, and then little by little, they bloom. And it's really about a conversation that goes double way. So I think time kind of brought the flowers in here.
- [21:13]
Nicole Phelps
Speaking of time, I want to ask you about the spring 2022 show, which was in fall of 2021. It was the first time we were back in person after the pandemic. And you did that very fun project where you had all of us go into a fitting with you, all of us who were guests, and we got to choose Marnie outfits, and we wore them to sit in the show. Where did that idea come from? And would you ever do it again?
- [21:47]
Francesco Risso
Oh, my God, I would love to do it again. That was a natural evolution of what was the start of, I would call it, the training towards the final outcome of that collection. It was the first times we were coming back from our homes where we were, all of us completely secluded, and we were sitting at a table, and suddenly we were like, oh, we have to really get physical about things. And so we covered the entire office. We have, like, this big room where we work all together with canvas. And we started to work together painting. And so we started painting for at least, like we said, let's give us 10 days, then we have to expand it into another week. We just, like, painted stripes and we thought, oh, that's our uniform. And from that moment, we thought that we had to kind of like, create this unison of what we experienced in that moment till the show. And so we decided to dress everyone, which was one of the most incredible experience I had had in my life, because I remember this room you have. You were there. We had different changing rooms, and I was, like, floating from one to another with part of my team, split it in different changing rooms. But in that moment, that week was even more emotional for me than the show itself, as I truly felt what it is about what we do, which is making clothes for people. So I had this direct connection with everyone, and it was just such a special moment.
- [23:46]
Nicole Phelps
We got to keep the clothes, which was very generous of you and of Marnie. And I thought you would like to know that the shirt that I wore to the show is very oversized. So now I have the pants, but my husband wears the shirt. So he.
- [24:00]
Francesco Risso
I love it.
- [24:00]
Nicole Phelps
Yes, He. He was sort of there, I guess you could say, in. In absentia.
- [24:05]
Francesco Risso
Of course. Of course. I love that.
- [24:11]
Nicole Phelps
More with Franchesco Riso after the break.
- [24:19]
Francesco Risso
Alex.
- [24:21]
Nicole Phelps
I'm Alex Schwartz.
- [24:22]
Unknown Host
I'm Nomi Fry. I'm Vincent Cunningham. And this is Critics at Large, a New Yorker podcast for the culturally curious.
- [24:29]
Nicole Phelps
Each week we're going to talk about a big idea that's showing up across the cultural landscape, and we'll trace it through all the mediums we books, movies, television, music, art.
- [24:38]
Unknown Host
And I always want to talk about.
- [24:39]
Nicole Phelps
Celebrity gossip, too, of course.
- [24:42]
Unknown Host
What are you guys excited to cover in the next few months? There's a new translation of the Iliad that's coming out. Emily Wilson, really excited to see whether I can read the Iliad again, whether I'm that literate. I mean, the jury is out.
- [24:54]
Nicole Phelps
I can't wait to hear Adam Driver go again in an Italian accent in Michael Mann's Ferrari. He can't stop. I mean, and bless him, I can't wait.
- [25:02]
Unknown Host
Molto bene.
- [25:03]
Nicole Phelps
Molto bene.
- [25:06]
Unknown Host
We hope you'll join us for new episodes each Thursday. Follow Critics at Large today wherever you get podcast. You really don't want to miss this. Don't, don't miss this.
- [25:16]
Nicole Phelps
Don't miss it.
- [25:17]
Unknown Host
See you soon.
- [25:23]
Nicole Phelps
So I think of you. Well, I was talking to Tiziana, who of course is my colleague at Vogue Runway, and she writes a lot about your collections and I write a lot about your collections. And I said, I think of Francesco as a philosopher. And she says, I think of him as an artist. And so I guess let's think of you as an artist, philosopher. Obviously, you're a very thoughtful guy. And I wonder, do you look outside at what's happening at fashion and what your contemporaries are doing and what do you think of the fashion world today?
- [25:56]
Francesco Risso
Oh, Lord. Well, I think if I have to be completely honest, if I have to pick the fashion world, but I think we're living a similar situation. I think in many of, let's say, the sections that are about expressing creativity but also selling something with it. I think there's like a huge stagnancy. And yes, there are things that are incredibly inspiring. And I think we, we're all trying to find the right, the right pathway. But I believe the world is in a, in a sort of like question mark mode right now. You see all these bubbles happening. But if I have to be completely honest, that's one of the reasons why I had the necessity to, to focus on beauty on, in the last collection we did, because there's, there's a lot and there's maybe, there's maybe like we Maybe we. The. The recipe has been pushed a bit too much. This is my feeling. I feel in all, even in art, even in music, I feel people has been more focused on what is the end rather than what comes in between and what is about the making. And people think often about the outcome rather than what does it take to make it and the patience and also like allowing just for that to exist. This is what I really think. I think maybe we should just be focused a bit more on what it takes to make things rather than what are those things representing when there are already like on another planet. I don't know. Feels like people is obsessed about oh, it's gonna be like that.
- [28:24]
Nicole Phelps
I appreciate that. Of course, like you have to sort of enjoy and thrive in the moment to moment. And it's not just about those 10 minutes of the show, right.
- [28:37]
Francesco Risso
But also like market wise. I'm talking about like, I think in a way this capitalism that we're living in is bringing brands and clothes and art just for the sake of what numbers they will bring. But I can think about so many incredible stories of the 90s or the past where people weren't so necessarily so like obsessed about what was the end outcome. So this is what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that companies shouldn't grow or shouldn't make money, but I think it has become so formulaic that we have lost maybe the sense of the beauty of making. I have been working with a lot of universities right now, right now. And I have noticed that there's a lot of like people that tend to, to push to, to become very high and to, to aim for these like creative positions and not so much, not so much energy is put into how a thing is made, how we can make our hands dirty and enjoy that. You know, there's an enjoyment into a bit of fatigue and a bit of discipline in order to understand what is really the know how of making. And this is for everyone from music to art to writing. I truly believe that.
- [30:24]
Nicole Phelps
Right. You have to put in the, put in the hours to get, to get something good at the end. So why do you, why are you working so much with universities and schools right now?
- [30:37]
Francesco Risso
Because there was a period in which I, at the start of my journey, let's say many times I was asked to work with universities and to give my contribution. I kind of refused it for many years. And then one day I was like, you know what, let me tap into it again. I want to understand, because I want to understand what I lived back in the days as a young students, how young students are living it now. And I had some great experiences in this joint ventures. I've worked with different type of schools, from super alternative artists schools in LA to SCAD to the Antwerp Academy. And in all of it I found this unfiltered emotion from. From students and from teachers which are still extremely passionate about what they have to a mission. A mission which is guide young people towards the future. And so it's not merely only about business and there's still like a lot of. A lot of intention and it's not necessarily filtered by the mechanism of the market, you know, not yet. I found that like a spontaneous energy that I find very inspiring. So I think we should all, in a way, look into it as it feels quite energetic.
- [32:35]
Nicole Phelps
So are you doing any scouting for the Marnie Studio when you're at these schools? And I wonder what you can say about your next show. I know it's very early, but in terms of, you know, doing the work, what are you thinking about at the moment for your next show? Too, too soon?
- [33:01]
Francesco Risso
No, actually, no, actually, you know, it's an evolution for us. And I'll tell you that I'm thinking about wolves. Wolves. Yes. Yes. Well, that's.
- [33:18]
Nicole Phelps
Go ahead.
- [33:19]
Francesco Risso
No, please.
- [33:20]
Nicole Phelps
I was gonna say that leads me to a question that a lot of us here at Vogue have, which is your Instagram account is called A Slice of Bam. And we want to know why.
- [33:31]
Francesco Risso
Okay, well, it's. It was. It started that. That was born at a dinner as a joke with actually with some journalists and some friends and. And we were all trying to figure out what could have been my search. A name, A name I could use for Instagram and be completely hidden because at the time when I. When I made. We made up this name at a dinner, there wasn't even Francesco Riso. Like, it was just a Slice of Bambi. And I think it's the combination of this, like, fable that it's so sweet and so. And so dreamy and yet. So it can be so harsh if you look at, from another perspective and if you look underneath this, some of the real meanings of that fable. So I think my character probably encompass many of those aspects, as I'm not yet sure that I am romantic. But then I make these very romantic actions and yet they are driven sometimes from. From darkness. It's true. My. I. I think I have learned in the years, like, it's a balance between.
- [35:14]
Nicole Phelps
The two and so Wolves. Wolves is a little dark.
- [35:21]
Francesco Risso
Yeah, but aren't they the most ancient and wise animals. And yet they resemble freedom. So that's why.
- [35:36]
Nicole Phelps
That's a beautiful note to end on. Thank you, Francesco.
- [35:40]
Francesco Risso
Thank you so much. Was such a beautiful conversation. Thank you.
- [35:44]
Nicole Phelps
It's great to see you.
- [35:45]
Francesco Risso
Great to see you, too.
- [35:52]
Nicole Phelps
That's it for the Run Through. See you next week. Ciao.
- [36:01]
Unknown Host
The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global audio. Working at Vanity Fair, our entire lives.
- [36:24]
Francesco Risso
Revolve around press screenings, premieres, film festivals, Q&As set visits, award ceremonies.
- [36:29]
Nicole Phelps
Not that we're complaining, it's pretty great. But you know that feeling when you see a new film or show and you want to talk about it with everyone immediately? We feel that all the time.
- [36:39]
Francesco Risso
Yes, we sure do. I'm Richard Lawson.
- [36:43]
Nicole Phelps
I'm David Canfield. And I'm Rebecca Ford.
- [36:45]
Francesco Risso
On Little Gold Men, Vanity Fair's flagship entertainment podcast, we discuss today's most exciting films and TV shows.
- [36:51]
Nicole Phelps
David and I are fresh off attending the LA premiere last night.
- [36:55]
Francesco Risso
Break down the latest developments in the awards races.
- [36:57]
Unknown Host
Gomez and Grande split the pop girly.
- [36:59]
Francesco Risso
Vote and catch up with Hollywood's biggest movers and shakers. Demi Moore. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.
- [37:04]
Unknown Host
Whether you're a casual viewer or an.
- [37:06]
Francesco Risso
Industry buff, this is the podcast for you. New episodes are published every Tuesday and Thursday. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts from. Prx.