How Tracee Ellis Ross Packed For Dior (and PFW!)

Summary

The Run-Through with Vogue

Episode: "How Tracee Ellis Ross Packed For Dior (and PFW!)"

Release Date: October 3, 2025
Hosts: Chloe Malle (Vogue U.S.), Chioma Nnadi (British Vogue)
Featured Guest: Tracee Ellis Ross

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Episode Overview

This episode features an insightful conversation with Tracee Ellis Ross, touching on her experience at Dior and Paris Fashion Week (PFW), her unique packing philosophy, memorable fashion moments, and behind-the-scenes chats with Vogue editors and contributors. The episode moves between show discussions, fashion insights, and intimate reflections on solo travel, style, and well-being. It also includes lively recaps with Hamish Bowles, Tiziana Cardini, and Amy Verner, providing a real-time sense of the PFW whirlwind.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Paris Fashion Week Scene Setting

• The hosts, along with Tracee and Hamish Bowles, describe the atmosphere in Paris and detail their visits to major fashion shows including The Row, Tom Ford, Mugler, Rick Owens, and Schiaparelli.
• The beauty and exclusivity of The Row show is highlighted, especially the mystique and focus on physical notetaking rather than social media.
  • “It feels almost like going into the fashion Vatican” — Alex DePalma [02:13]

2. The Row Show Recap

• Discussion centered on The Row’s combination of texture, minimal color palette, eveningwear focus, and signature styling touches.

• Special attention is given to the elaborate updos and decorative combs, adding a “whimsical, Japanese-esque” touch.

  • “Three decorative combs...almost Japanese, in an esque curved shape. It completely transformed each girl’s look.” — Choma Nnadi [03:24]

• Hamish Bowles praises the show’s modern elegance and references to fashion history.

  • “There was an evening dress that was draped just like a Madame Grès.” — Hamish Bowles [04:16]

3. Tom Ford’s Dramatic Turn

• The episode celebrates Tom Ford’s runway energy, contemporary reinterpretations of the house codes, and the seductive staging.
• The creative director’s ability to balance homage to Ford with forward-thinking design is lauded.
  • “He manages to take all of those codes of Tom Ford and bring them forward… That’s the secret sauce.” — Choma Nnadi [07:26]

4. Rick Owens and Schiaparelli: Performance as Fashion

• Amy Verner and Tiziana Cardini elaborate on Rick Owens’ water-extravaganza at Palais de Tokyo, noting the demanding environment for models, the astrological chart prints, and the high energy music.
  • “The music was a remix of ‘Don’t You Want Somebody to Love’, and the repetition became a mantra.” — Amy Verner [13:38]

5. Tracee Ellis Ross — Fashion, Packing, and Traveling Solo

Dior Show Experience

• Tracee describes her Dior outfit: layered shorts in “washed chambray” (actually heavy twill), a tweed jacket, and a tux/riding jacket with “grosgrain collar.”

  • “I was wearing those shorts that are an ode to the old layered dress… with a tweed jacket with the grosgrain collar.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [16:01]

• The look was delivered by stylist Carla Welch, without a traditional fitting.

• Tracee and the hosts marvel at the balance of wearability and extravagance in the Dior collection, highlighting lace veils, inventive bustles, playful tricorn hats, and “exploding rose” shoes.

  • “His clothes have this unpreciousness...they’re both beyond and also just wearable.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [17:03]

Packing Philosophy

• Tracee candidly discusses her signature “Bring It All” approach to packing — rooted in maximization, creative joy, and preparedness for any occasion or “disaster.”

  • “I have made it to the other side of having tons of shame around how much I pack. The reason that I pack as much as I do—some of it is that in my life, I don't really get to wear my beautiful clothes. But I love clothes, and I've always loved clothes.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [31:23]

• She emphasizes that packing is about creating looks and feeling ready for both beauty and unpredictability.

  • “I pack for beauty and disaster. So it's a combination of satisfying the anxiety of what might happen… and then there's also just like, making outfits.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [32:15]

• Tracee details her meticulous sorting and editing process, including racks at home, outfit coordination, shoe choice, and lessons learned from lost luggage as a child.

  • “If there's a pair of shoes that's only getting worn once, it's out. And that means that look's gotta go.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [35:18]

Personal Style as Play

• Tracee and the hosts discuss the importance of play, authenticity, and self-expression in fashion.
  • “I love that part of my life. It just brings me tons of joy. It is one of the ways that I wear my insides on the outside.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [34:40]

6. Tracee’s Paris “Musts” and Favorite Experiences

• Dining at Paul Bert, “wearing” the steak, and point-of-view on merging into Parisian life with museum visits and cultural stops.
• Visiting exhibits, including the Tadao Andao/Pinault Collection and the Virgil Abloh exhibition.

7. Solo Travel as Self-Care and Revolution

• Tracee reflects on the public’s perception of women (and Black women) traveling solo, the politics of safety, and the broader purpose of her show.

  • “What are the areas that might be the most beautiful part of you, but might leave you vulnerable somewhere else in the world?...I think it's more about the relationship with self than the adventure or things I'm experiencing.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [44:03]

• Hosts and Tracee agree that solo travel is often met with surprise, and affirm the value of loving one’s own company.

  • “People are shocked. ‘Oh, it’s just you?’ Yes, it’s just me. I’m good.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [45:48]

8. Behind-the-Scenes Stories from Fashion Past

• Tracee’s memories of her runway debut at Mugler (with her mother, Diana Ross) and a hilarious anecdote about being asked to wear rhinestone dollar signs — with Naomi Campbell goading her on.

  • “Naomi said, ‘Do you want to be a model or not?’ And I said, ‘I want to be a model.’ So I showed my babies. And here we are.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [28:39]

• Reflections on confidence, the historicity of fashion, and the “Brown to magazine pipeline” between her and Samira Nasr.

9. Beauty Rituals & Product Talk

• Tracee shares beauty packing strategies, including “pattern body” products.

  • “It’s outfit with the shoes that go with it all go in one bag — so if a bag gets lost, I can still live and be fine.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [40:25]

• Cautions against over-consolidating essentials—her own lost luggage trauma is recounted with wit and nostalgia.

10. Books and Next Destinations

• Teases reading material: an unpublished novel recommended by a friend, and “Sisters” by Jonas Hasan Khemiri.
• For her next season of solo travel, Tracee voices dreams of going to Australia, Japan, Switzerland, or the south of France, always driven by curiosity for new places rather than adventure for adventure’s sake.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On playing with fashion:
  “My favorite time of day is the morning for dress up… I can tell when I get a good outfit because I literally, out loud in my mirror, I'm like, ‘Yeah, yeah, you are cute.’” — Tracee Ellis Ross [34:08]

• On solo dining:
  “It is my greatest luxury to go to a restaurant by myself and just watch. Heaven.” — Alex DePalma [46:06]

• On history and design reverence:
  “I love people that have a sense of history and are willing to nod to it while still leaning towards the future.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [25:00]

• On her friendship with Samira Nasr and the "Brown to magazine pipeline":
  “That’s my best friend. So it’s been almost 30 years now. Jesus.” — Tracee Ellis Ross [31:03]

• On losing luggage as a formative packing experience:
  “It all started at 12 years old when we went on a trip and my luggage got lost. I still have not seen… my yellow Guess Velcro oversized shirt…” — Tracee Ellis Ross [40:34]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:26–06:14: The Row Show deep-dive with Hamish Bowles
• 06:14–08:14: Tom Ford show recap and analysis
• 09:44–14:16: Rick Owens and the power of performance in fashion
• 16:01–19:11: Tracee on Dior, personal style, and fitting process
• 28:13–30:33: Tracee’s Mugler runway story and memories of modeling with her mother
• 31:23–36:15: Tracee’s packing process and fashion editor insights
• 43:41–45:15: On solo travel, safety, and self-care as a Black woman
• 45:51–47:03: On solo dining and being at ease with oneself
• 47:32–48:25: Switzerland, birthdays, and living in the moment
• 48:39–49:45: What Tracee is reading/watching while traveling
• 49:44–end: Episode wrap-up and credits

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Concluding Tone & Takeaways

This episode encapsulates the exuberance, intellect, and humor of Tracee Ellis Ross, as well as the insider excitement and camaraderie of Vogue’s editorial team during Paris Fashion Week. With frank, funny, and empowering reflections on style, travel, and packing, listeners are left with both actionable inspiration and a sense of the creative, communal magic of fashion’s biggest week.

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Transcript

[Alex DePalma]

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[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's a sunny Thursday morning in Paris. Today we are at the Row show.

[Alex DePalma]

At their flagship store in Paris.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Very exciting.

[Choma Menardi]

Very exciting. Hi.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Hello. How are you?

[Choma Menardi]

Good.

[Alex DePalma]

This is the run through. I'm Chloe. Mel.

[Choma Menardi]

And I'm Jo Minardi. And it's day two of our fashion week coverage, which I'm super excited about because it's been so beautiful here in Paris.

[Alex DePalma]

It is the most gorgeous weather.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

We're so lucky.

[Choma Menardi]

We're so lucky. It just lifts the mood. It makes every. You know, you have light coming through these windows at the show as we, as we were just at the Row.

[Alex DePalma]

And later in this episode, we have an interview with the one and only Tracee Ellis Ross. We talked to her from the Vogue France offices right after the Dior show, which she attended. It was very exciting to hear everyone's immediate reactions.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah. And I love that she talked about her show, this solo traveling with Tracee Elias Ross. If you want a deep dive on it, I would highly recommend.

[Alex DePalma]

Yes. And Tracy, she is a true fashion fashionphile and she's going to a lot of shows this week. So she was ready to go in her full head to toe Phoebe Filo leather. But before we get into that conversation, we are in Choma's van on the way to the Mugler show coming from the Row and we very sneakily scooped Hamish Bowles, the one and only, off the street corner and begged him to come with us because it is always such a treat to be with Hamish. Hamish, thank you for being kidnapped into joining our podcast.

[Hamish Bowles]

Oh, my thanks are due to you.

[Alex DePalma]

I have to say, from someone who typically is not always in Paris and sees the Row a few days later on Vogue Runway. Never on social feeds because they don't allow social media. It was very exciting. It feels like being in a. It feels almost like going in into the fashion Vatican into this show. It's like a secretive place with mystique. I love how on every seat there are sort of parchment paper wrapped, little paper notebooks for you to physically take notes. It's very return to IRL in an AI world.

[Choma Menardi]

And isn't it fabulous? I think they work there. I think that's their actual office. Is it? Yeah. The Space is gorgeous. Yeah. They hold their shows there every season, and they always have, obviously, like, very Chicago water in glass bottles as you enter. And there's coffee.

[Alex DePalma]

The best orange juice I've had in the past.

[Choma Menardi]

The best orange juice. Everything is kind of like of the highest taste, personally. Before we get into the show, I have to talk about the beauty, because I was transfixed by the updos. It's so fantastic, wasn't it? It was just incredible. It was, I would say, three. What are they? Were they combs?

[Alex DePalma]

They were combs. They were decorative combs.

[Choma Menardi]

Three decorative combs.

[Alex DePalma]

Almost Japanese.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah, almost like in an esque curved shape. And it completely transformed each. Each girl's look. I just thought they were fabulous. I will let you guys talk about the. The fashion from here, because that was. I almost was just totally, totally distracted by the hair. I thought it was fab.

[Alex DePalma]

Hamish, what were your fashion takeaways on the show?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I think.

[Hamish Bowles]

They always going to the root of style. They had something like a feather skirt, which could have been a feather skirt, and it was an apron which gave it a twist. And then there was an evening dress that was draped just like a Madame Grey.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah, that was beautiful. I love that.

[Hamish Bowles]

And I just thought they could be any of the chic women there.

[Choma Menardi]

Yes, absolutely. It just makes me think. I always think when I go to that show, and maybe this time more than ever, because it felt very much leaning into the evening wear more than anything. It's like, that's, to me, like, if there's a modern swan, like she's wearing a rug, like, it just felt like that.

[Alex DePalma]

And I do think that even as elevated and expensive and luxurious as it is, there are such sort of inspirational details that every woman can take from that. And I do think that's why it has resonated so widely. I thought that the very simple black pumps, quite a narrow black pump, was really elegant and pretty. And also, they're the only ones who can do or it's hard to do a show entirely in shades of black, white, and cream and still have it feel exciting and vibrant.

[Choma Menardi]

Yes, exactly. I've been seeing so much play on texture this season, and I felt like they really took it to the next level, like you said, with the feathered skirt. And then there was that pullover that almost looked like hair. I'm not sure what the fiber was.

[Hamish Bowles]

That was incredible.

[Choma Menardi]

It was incredible. And it just looked so easy where anywhere else it could have just looked like, I don't know, like a bad cartoon. But it was so. It was so beautiful and chic and. And, yeah, everything is kind of always pitch perfect. And back to your point about the styling. I think they work with Brian Malloy and they've had. They've had a long collaboration with him. And I think the styling, like you said, is. Is so on point. And there are so many things that we can sort of take away and do now, like wear now, which is always kind of fun when you come away from a show to instantly have a way to update your look. Right. Now.

[Alex DePalma]

Should we talk about Tom Ford?

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah, let's talk about Tom Ford.

[Alex DePalma]

That was very exciting.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, my God. Talk about drama.

[Hamish Bowles]

That was so exciting to me. That was the most exciting show I've seen so far.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah. I'd love your take on it, because I know you've been a long. You've long been a friend and fan of Hader.

[Hamish Bowles]

Yes. I think he's taken everything one expected of Mr. Ford himself and twisted it and given it a sort of very contemporary edge.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Hamish Bowles]

But I think in those clothes, anyone's going to be super elegant, because I think they are just. They're designed for elegance. And it was marvelous.

[Choma Menardi]

And I loved how the models kind of sorted out either in. In fours or threesomes. And there was kind of like this element of seduction between them.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes.

[Choma Menardi]

I mean, some of the clothes were completely transparent. There was a lot of transparency. There was a lot of lace. There was, like.

[Alex DePalma]

You could see a bit of the M. There was some sort of longs coming out.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah. Maybe it was a latex song or something like. It was quite. But it was so well done in a way, that was so in Tom's world. And I think that's really the key, because he manages to take all of those codes of Tom Ford and bring them forward. And I think that, to me, that's what makes these creative directorships that are new. That's the secret sauce. Getting that tipping point between paying homage to the past or taking forward the history of the house to somewhere completely new and owning it, which he did, because it felt completely in the world of Heder and Tom Ford. It was like the Venn diagram was so perfectly formed.

[Alex DePalma]

I thought that was really felt extremely.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It felt electric.

[Hamish Bowles]

Yes, it did.

[Choma Menardi]

It was great.

[Alex DePalma]

So next we are on our way to Mugler and Miguel Castro. Freitas is the new creative director, and he graduated Central St. Martin's in 2004, and he was handpicked by John Galliano to work at Dior after his graduation and has held designer jobs at St. Laurent under Stefano Pilates and Lanvin with Albert Abbaz. Most notably, he was head of tailoring at Christian Dior under Raf Simmons and head of women's wear at Dries and creative director of Sportmax.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Wow.

[Alex DePalma]

I'm a resume.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, my God.

[Hamish Bowles]

Yeah, that's quite something.

[Alex DePalma]

Quite a resume from Miguel, I have to say. It was fun to be. It's fun to be going to Mugler today after talking to Tracee Ellis Ross about her debut on the Runway when.

[Choma Menardi]

She was wearing it 19 years old.

[Alex DePalma]

For Monsieur Thierry Mugler himself. She and her mother modeled together on the Runway and she just has amazing story about traveling on the Concord with all the supers to the show.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Gosh.

[Alex DePalma]

So it's a nice coda to our interview with her. And I always love Rabanne. I'm excited to go see that today. It's at the UNESCO building, which is a very specific location. I have a dream to stop at Dries boutique on the way.

[Choma Menardi]

I can facilitate that dream.

[Alex DePalma]

All right, well, that is it for this morning. Later today, Mark Holgate and Nicole Phelps are going to chat about Rick Owens and Schiaparelli, which are laid this afternoon and this evening.

[Choma Menardi]

I just love the way Rick Owens does. Brings theater to Fashion Week. You know, there's always a lot of.

[Alex DePalma]

You say the same about Daniel Schiaparella.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah. You know, there's an otherworldliness about his shows, and I also love that he taps into the moment. There's always some kind of political undercurrent in his shows. He's very tuned in, and we're in quite a, you know, turbulent moment. So I'm quite interested to. To see what Rick will. How Rick will interpret this.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Au revoir.

[Alex DePalma]

Au revoir.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Hi, Chelsea. Nice to meet you. Do you guys want to be on the podcast?

[Tiziana Cardini]

I'm Tiziana Cardini, reviewer for Vogue Runway.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I'm Amy Verner, Paris based contributor to Vogue Runway.

[Choma Menardi]

Amazing.

[Amy Verner]

We are in the van once again coming out of Rick Owens headed to Schiaparelli in the traffic beaucoup de trafique.

[Choma Menardi]

Where was the location of your go?

[Amy Verner]

It is always at the Palais de Tokyo. And in September, it's always outside and it's a beautiful day. And the models walked down a flight of bleacher stairs in their insane Rick Owens boots into the water.

[Tiziana Cardini]

The fountain. There's a big fountain at the, you know, at the back of the stairs. And there's always something happening in the fountains in Rick Owens shows. So you never really know what to expect, like smoke or you know, jets of water or very. Yeah, confetti or gold confetti or very strong music like in this case. And you know, there's always anticipation about what it will about to happen.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

They put on their game face. You wonder what they're thinking as they're trudging through the water in those shoes. Just let me not fall, just let me stand, survive. Just let me not embarrass myself because I don't know, they just do a really good job and we take it for granted.

[Amy Verner]

Yes, the models definitely earned their fee at a Rick Owens show. But as some listeners might know to the podcast, Rick Owens has had an exceptional exhibition at the Palais Galliera this summer. It opened right after his men's show in June. And Rick was on the podcast. Please go back and listen to it if you have not. And he was talking about how he has accomplished everything that he wanted to. Like, this is the ultimate accolade for a living designer to have an exhibition. The only other living designers that have ever had an exhibition there are Azzedine Alaia, who has since passed, and Martin Margiela. And so it was a very important moment for him. And, and now he said he feels sort of freer. And I think you could tell it in the clothes, which were very lightly constructed and many layers of sort of like a sheerish mesh. And the drawings apparently were his astrological chart done by his father many years ago. And so if you looked carefully, you could see that it said Richard because that is Rick Owens name, Richard.

[Tiziana Cardini]

And he's a Scorpio.

[Amy Verner]

We love Scorpios. It's essential also to talk about the music at Rick Owens, which was a remix of a very famous Jefferson Airplane song, Don't yout Want Somebody to Love. And yes, yes, we do. We all do. And I don't know the way that they were moving so slowly down the stairs and then through the water. And the song just kept repeating that line like a mantra. It was really beautiful, wasn't it?

[Tiziana Cardini]

Yeah, it was also. It was kind of intense, the beat because the, you know, was really high energy.

[Amy Verner]

Thank you Titiana and Amy for your valuable insights.

[Alex DePalma]

And we will be back with Tracee Ellis Ross after a quick break. Lights, camera.

[Choma Menardi]

Fashion.

[Alex DePalma]

This year Vogue world is heading to Hollywood. The scene, the legendary Paramount Pictures Studios lot.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

The plot.

[Alex DePalma]

Cinema's most iconic costumes meet fashion's biggest designers. Think Edward Scissorhands tailoring and Marie Antoinette opulence. It's drama, its decadence. It's a costume department come to life. The countdown starts now. Learn more about the livestream event of the [e-mail] and cut. I'm putting the finishing touches on my fall wardrobe and hopefully you are too. Luckily, there's still time for you to get great deals at Macy's VIP Fall Fashion Preview Sale. Shop now through October 5th for 30% off of the best shoe, clothing and accessory brands plus 15% off beauty shop@macy's.com or in store. Tracy, I want to know about your Dior experience today. What were you wearing?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I was wearing those shorts that are an ode to the old layered, layered, layered, layered, layered dress in a washed chambray. Like blue. They aren't chambray. It's like a heavy twill, you know, with a tweed jacket with the grosgrain collar. Tux jacket, double breasted, almost a riding jacket. It was like a riding jacket. Yeah, it was gorgeous. It was heavy. And then I saw an ode to it in the collection, so it made me feel really chic and special.

[Alex DePalma]

What was your fitting process like?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

How did you come to this look? I did not fit. Oh, really? I did not fit. It just was sent over.

[Choma Menardi]

Really glad you got. You must know each other very well.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Though, at this point. Well, Carla sent it over early. She was like, get it out of here before it ends up on someone else.

[Alex DePalma]

This is Carla Welch.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes, Carla Welch. And she was over there working with Jonathan and he gave the seal of approval cause he knew that it was something I would wear.

[Choma Menardi]

So great.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, it was really the thing that I love so much and I think we really saw in the collection, which was exceptional. It was like a drop the mic situation for me. His clothes have this unpreciousness that they're both beyond and also just wearable, you know, even like that ode to the tiered skirt with the sweater, you know, it just. Or like putting a denim skirt with an extraordinary jacket that's got so much detail and so much structure and balance and all the proportions are kind of going nuts. And then a teeny little micro mini which I can't wear anymore. Perhaps with a pantyhose.

[Choma Menardi]

We look good with a pantyhose.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, it's. That's my new. As a young girl, I was like pantyhose. As an adult, I'm like pantyhose. I'm like, stockings love a stocking.

[Choma Menardi]

I find them so sexy.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I do too. I do too.

[Alex DePalma]

Yeah, I love a stocking with a seam.

[Choma Menardi]

What do they call that?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, a back seam stocking. No, just a back Seam stocking. I love a stocking with a polka dot.

[Alex DePalma]

Me, too. The little twist dot.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. But the collection was stunning, and I.

[Alex DePalma]

Did you take any mental notes about pieces you would like to wear?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I did, and I took those pictures. I loved all the stuff with the lace on the face. I really. And the pop of color, the red with the white, that was like beyond to me. And the lace kind of hanging behind. That was the thing that was so interesting. Even some of the ones that had the bustle. It was a bustle on the front versus the back, which I thought was really special. And then, you know, the veil, it was like a veil across the mouth instead of across the eyes, which I thought was really sweet. And of course, those hats were beyond. I think I'm gonna wear those to the grocery store. Air one, Watch me come.

[Alex DePalma]

Choma. Do you want to describe the hats for people listening, Steven?

[Choma Menardi]

They almost were kind of like hats that kids make out of paper but exploded up. And I always love that there's a kind of an innocence or a childlike kind of wonder about.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Like a whimsy, too. A whimsy? Yeah.

[Alex DePalma]

They were sort of mostly black satin deconstructed tricorn hats.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Kind of front loaded instead of back loaded, which I thought was really interesting.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah, they were really great.

[Alex DePalma]

You know, it was sort of Galliano meets Where the Wildfings are.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes. That's. Yes. The perfect description with what you can make a folded hat out of. Right. Some tapery. Yeah. Beautiful. And they frame the face so beautifully. And that's what I love, is there's a way that he sort of does proportion that's like no other. Because there's nothing about it that would make you go, yeah, that'll work. But somehow it's just like. Yeah, that works. Yeah. I also love the way he mixes patterns and colors and puts a shoe that. Sort of unconventional with a more elegant look.

[Alex DePalma]

They're major shoes.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Major shoes.

[Alex DePalma]

I like the ones with the sort of exploding roses on the front.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. Like a. Like. It's like someone smushed the rose. Yeah. Really good.

[Choma Menardi]

The little bunny ears.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, the bunny ears right at the end, isn't it? Yeah.

[Choma Menardi]

I feel like it's so funny you talking about proportion, because I feel like I often see his clothes on the Runway, and then I want. I'm sort of. Oh, I don't know if I could pull that off, but I'm excited by it. And then I see you and you just wearing it casually. You managed to pull off I think some of these. Like, you were one of the first people in the jeans.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, yeah. Which were fantastic. Yeah. I feel like. I don't know, it's. I think also because he really makes things on a body that the draping kind of works. Even though it's a bit quirky, it's a little bit like. Huh. Like, were they sweatpants that he did?

[Choma Menardi]

That was amazing.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It was like rolled on the front. Even that. There was like an evening gown that.

[Alex DePalma]

Was jersey, but with the most precise pleating. Unbelievable twisting.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. I also feel like one of the things that I see in his work that is not of the norm in our culture right now is a lot of humility. He has like a. There's a way that he. I don't know that I just love Vogue.

[Alex DePalma]

Runway was live blogging the Dior show, and the editor started live blogging before I got there. And they. The thing that everyone was most excited about to begin with was the ushers outfits, which were so chic. They were all wearing these, like military gray polo, cashmere polo long sleeve sweaters, and wide leg gray wool trousers. And they look heavenly.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

They looked heavenly.

[Choma Menardi]

And they were not allowed to keep them the way off.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Really?

[Alex DePalma]

Oh, really.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Where will they all go?

[Choma Menardi]

I don't know.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Huh. Huh. That always is fascinating to me because I'm like, but then where will they go? As long as you're not throwing them away, Maybe employees.

[Choma Menardi]

Who knows? Who knows where they'll end up?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

That's fine. As long as they're not tossed.

[Alex DePalma]

No, I mean, but for me, it kills me seeing those enormous sets and then they're just gonna.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It makes me crazy. Yeah.

[Choma Menardi]

Well, this was kind of like an upside down.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It looked like a diamond coming. Did you notice there was a little box at the bottom of it? Yeah.

[Choma Menardi]

Was it like the pyramid at the Louvre, but underground?

[Alex DePalma]

Upside down.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, it was very nice.

[Alex DePalma]

It actually, my mom's engagement ring is an upside down diamond and you mean it's the inside.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

The setting? It's upside down? Yeah. Oh, that's cool.

[Alex DePalma]

So it's pointy coming up.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, wow.

[Alex DePalma]

But it's. It sort of looked like that where it was.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah, it totally looked like that.

[Alex DePalma]

An inverted diamond. And I thought it was so coy and self aware and wry to have this sort of campy mashup horror film start. It began with do youo Dare to Enter the House of Dior. And it was an edited short film of classic horror movie moments, plus the different moments in the history of the House of Dior.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I thought it was very. A beautiful ode to. That also had all of the Jonathan camp completely.

[Alex DePalma]

And it was cheeky, but respectful. And Anna and I actually went yesterday to see a preview of the collection, and Jonathan had just had tea with John Galliano, who he invited to come see the collection, which I thought was such a gracious, elegant gesture. And John loved it and was so excited and happy to be included and seeing the collection on the Runway, obviously. But this felt particularly like the pomp and circumstance of the setting made it feel much more actually wearable. Because when you saw the pieces off, I wondered how.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

When you did the preview.

[Alex DePalma]

When we did the preview, I wondered if it would look costumey or unwearable. And then when you saw them on the body, on the girls.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

He drapes on a body.

[Alex DePalma]

It really works. And you can Even the sort of Spanish mantilla lace over the face. You can't eat in it, but you could walk on it in the red carpet.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Watch it, see if it's gonna happen. Guys, I can't wait to see you.

[Choma Menardi]

On the red carpet in that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I would die. That's a really good one.

[Choma Menardi]

So beautiful.

[Alex DePalma]

Yeah, Gorgeous. And just. I mean, everything from the shoes to the. Then there were the very wearable redos of the classic bag silhouettes. He made the lady Dior bag sort of softer, but still what it used to be. So I'm really excited to see.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And then I also love the. He took that silhouette of the coat, the sort of Dior Co, and kind of. It was almost like he, like, mushed it. Yeah. You know, and it had that kind of twist right at the front.

[Choma Menardi]

So apparently also the short dresses. The short.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

The one with the short top and short jacket. Yeah.

[Choma Menardi]

Apparently it was the exact length of the original bar jacket.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Really?

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah. So the entire thing, the shrunken skirt suit that was very hit right in the same spot which you and I would wear. Pantyhose was actually the original length of the bar jacket.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

That's what I mean, though. About. There's a real gracious sort of reverence that I thought he did in the collection. That was really beautiful. Yeah, it was just like a nod, too. And if you have any historical reference for Dior through the years, I remember going to that beautiful exhibit that they had. I don't know if it still exists. And you sort of felt that nod. And I thought that was really beautiful. Yeah. I love people that have a sense of history and are willing to sort of nod to it while still leaning towards the future. I think we do too much. In our culture of forgetting and thinking, you're coming up with something out of nowhere. And, you know, there's so much that has been done, both in a negative and in a positive. And I think history is important. And there particularly. Not particularly, but even in fashion. And so I loved that he did that. I really thought it was beautiful.

[Alex DePalma]

Yeah, me too.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Is that historically the first time there's been one designer for men and women?

[Alex DePalma]

I mean, since Monsieur.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I mean, that is a whopper.

[Alex DePalma]

Big undertaking.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

He's got a jab ahead of him.

[Choma Menardi]

I mean.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Choma Menardi]

What's he like personally? Because I think you guys at this point know each other quite well.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Not quite well, but we do know each other. He's just a sweetheart and he's funny and, like, lovely. I think it's all the things you see in his clothes. You know, there's a sense of charm and sweetness and also, like, he's got that little reverence, like the. Mm. You know, which I think you really do see in his clothes.

[Alex DePalma]

Are you going to be. Where will you be putting your nut dish?

[Choma Menardi]

I know we were talking about that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Well, first of all, you just said nut. I was like, I'm sorry, what now? Where will I be putting my nut dish? I don't. I don't know.

[Alex DePalma]

Strategic policy.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So there. Exactly. There's a place in my house where a lot of my treasures go. Like, the shoes that Mark made me that I didn't end up wearing. The platypus shoes he made them with. It's like a buckle. But anyway, they were platypus shoes that. They were, like, rhinestone buckles all the way down the front. And I didn't end up wearing them because I would have definitely eaten it. But so I will probably put my plate within that. It's by my Golden Globe and all my awards. There's, like, an area of treasures. Wow.

[Alex DePalma]

Golden Globes, rhinestone buckle shoes.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

10 NAACP awards. Just like, it's just. And then there's just books. Just, like, crazy books and, like, some childhood stuffed animals. Like, it's all just like a mishmash of, like, yummy things. Like a lot of coffee table books and stuff like that.

[Choma Menardi]

Do you remember your first fashion show?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I think the first show I went to, I walked in and I can't think of the guy's name.

[Alex DePalma]

It was the 91. Mugler.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, there was a show. There was one before that nobody knew anything about. Okay. That was before that. Mugler was. I mean, you know, that's a memorable moment. The Memorable part for me is that I was asked back without my mom. I went back the next year. That was exciting to me. Yeah, there's a good story from that one about Naomi. I was very nervous when I went back the second time because they wanted me to wear. It's a video that's around. They wanted me to wear this. He. Terry, wanted me to wear this rhinestone dollar signs on my bibbies.

[Choma Menardi]

Wow.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay. And a little, like, rhinestone capelet that went over it. And he wanted me to open it up at the end of the Runway and shimmy my bibs. Wow. And I'm wearing, like, red pleather pants. And I was very nervous about showing my bibbies because I didn't know if the real stuff was gonna come out. The important things, the very treasured nipples, and those are for nobody's eyes but mine. And Naomi said. I was like, I don't know what to do. And she said, do you wanna be a model or not? And I was like, I wanna be a model. So I showed my babies, and here we are.

[Choma Menardi]

And she's very comfortable.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I have to say, I look back at those, Even this one with my mom, and I think, my God, the confidence I had. I was.

[Choma Menardi]

Cause that's hard at that age.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Even though. Are you kidding me? I just don't even understand where I got it from. What pocket was that hiding in? I can't believe the way I walked. And they were all so lovely, and it was exciting. And we flew on the Concord. Oh, my God. It was Linda, Cindy, Christy, Naomi, and me and my mom on the Concord.

[Choma Menardi]

Hello.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Stop it right now. I mean, there were other people on the Concorde.

[Alex DePalma]

How much older than you are they? Were you about the same age as.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I think they're a little older than me because I'm 52.

[Choma Menardi]

I think they're a tiny bit older.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I think they're a little bit older. I mean, they were plastered on my walls. Stephanie Seymour. Like, just, like, everybody was just on my walls, and I was, like, dead. My God.

[Alex DePalma]

Did you, like, leave school to do this?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So what happened was I was maddling at the time. I was trying to be a model. I was really just maddling out in the world. I was with Wilhelmina, and I think I was 17 when I started. I don't know. And my mom got a phone call from Thierry Mugler to see could she come to walk in the show. And her response was, my daughter wants to be a model. My daughter wants to be a model. Can she walk, too? I mean, I could have whatever. Anyway, and so it was my birthday. It was right before my birthday. Cause my birthday was. I was turning 18 and I did. We left. I skipped a little school. I made it to Brown, though. I didn't. My intelligence.

[Choma Menardi]

That's amazing that you did all in.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It prevailed. And then I went and worked at Mirabel magazine as a fashion editor for years.

[Alex DePalma]

Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Choma Menardi]

Well, that's why we love your perspective on the show. Me too.

[Alex DePalma]

The Brown to magazine pipeline.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. Is that you? Yeah. Love it. Couple years behind me, but Samira and I worked together at Mirabella and that's when we're barnacles on each other's lives.

[Choma Menardi]

Since then, Samira, the fabulous editor of Harper's Bazaar.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. That's my best friend. So it's been almost 30 years now. Jesus.

[Choma Menardi]

That's so great. We've been loving your show. Solo travel.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Thank you.

[Choma Menardi]

With Tracee Ellis Ross. And I'm personally very impressed with your packing.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, goodness me.

[Choma Menardi]

Bring it all. Tell us about your philosophy. What did you pack for this trip?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I actually did really well this trip. So my packing philosophy is bia. Bring it all. I have made it to the other side of having tons of shame around how much I pack. There's a lot that is in. The reason that I pack as much as I do some of it is that in my life, I don't really get to wear my beautiful clothes. But I love clothes, and I've always loved clothes. I don't do dishes. I do do dishes, but I don't like doing dishes. And I will always shop. It's just. That's the way it goes. And so travel for me is one of the ways that I get to kind of do my thing and have the agency and adorn myself as I desire. And the truth is that my, like, you know, I live in la. Usually I'm dressed as other people as an actor, unless I'm going to the office as a CEO. And so travel is that opportunity. So it's a combination of I pack for beauty and disaster. So it's a combination of. Of satisfying the anxiety of, like, what might possibly happen. There's gonna be rain, there's gonna be this. I might get food poisoning. And then there's also just like, making outfits. And truthfully, my experience as a fashion editor ruined me because often I have to remind myself, I'm like, this is not a fashion closet and you are not doing editorial shoots. You're actually gonna go to live and do things right.

[Choma Menardi]

Because packing 10 suitcases as a fashion editor Is pretty.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's normal.

[Choma Menardi]

It's normal.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, that's normal. Like when you're doing shoots. But I'm not going to do a shoot for this trip. I'm here for seven days. I packed four luggages, but I packed two of them very empty.

[Choma Menardi]

So you do it personally. It's not. Do you and Carla sort of figure out the looks?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Carla has nothing to do with me dressing myself. Carla dresses me for work, for red carpet. Carla has nothing to do with my shopping. People are always like, does your stylist pack you? I'm like, God, no. Jesus, no. Carla does not know. So it's my shopping. And like, for example, for this trip.

[Choma Menardi]

Do you leave space for shopping? Because Paris is a great place to shop.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It is. But I don't end up shopping when I travel.

[Choma Menardi]

Interesting.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, I like to shop all year round. I love. I explained this to my sister at 12. She knocked on my door and she said, can I come in? I said, I'm trying something out. She goes, you're always trying something on. And I poked my head out of my room and I said, chudney, shopping is a 24 hour, seven day a week affair. You never know when you're gonna get hit with something good. Wow. Here we are.

[Amy Verner]

The run through the book.

[Choma Menardi]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You don't. I feel seen.

[Choma Menardi]

I love spending time just trying my clothes.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's my happy place. And so for me. So I will either play dress up. My favorite time of day is the morning for dress up. And sometimes they turn into a character and then it goes into the other part of my life. But for me, I start playing. And my favorite. I can tell when I get a good outf. Cause I literally, out loud in my mirror, I'm like, yeah, yeah, you are cute. Yeah.

[Choma Menardi]

I do think that's the key to personal style is just dressing. Play like you're playing. Like you remember when you were a kid, just dress out of a box and just play. Have fun.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Play. I love that part of my life. It just brings me tons of joy. It is one of the ways that I wear my insides on the outside. Yeah, it's fun.

[Alex DePalma]

That's a nice way to put it.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Alex DePalma]

Do you plan your outfits in advance when you're packing or is that part.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Of bring it all?

[Alex DePalma]

You're just throwing things in?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, no. Did she just say throwing things in a bag? Oh, my God. The offense. I can't. I mean, I just. I was taken aback so deeply, I. My God. I recoiled. There's no throwing it in a bag. I don't even know what that means now. There's no throwing in a bag. If there's one thing that I am, it's very specific. I do usually do by looks, but then there's things that overlap. One of the ways that I edit is if there's a pair of shoes that's only getting worn once it's out. And that means that look's gotta go, oh, wow. So that there's.

[Alex DePalma]

So do you do multiple rounds of edits?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. And just so as soon as I know I'm going on a trip, I start the dreaming in my head. And that was how these two jackets, it was actually a green leather one, a Lia one that I first was like, I need to go get that. So I usually go, like in my 90s, in my slippers into the area where the archives are and pull things. And then I sort of create looks and start. And I have racks. I have two racks, two beautiful, yellow, gorgeous racks in my dressing room, and I just start. And then I start sort of switching things around so that I can kind of see what the looks are. And everything hangs, and then they lay all over the floor. It's such a fun process. Wow. It's nuts.

[Alex DePalma]

We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be back with Tracy in a moment.

[David Remnick]

Hi, this is David Remnick, editor of the New Yorker. This fall, join us in celebrating the 100th anniversary of the New Yorker at the New Yorker Festival, returning October 24 through 26. We'll be joined by Salman Rushdie, Sarah Jessica Parker, George Saunders, Zadie Smith, Rasheed Johnson, Keanu Reeves, and many others. Tickets are on sale now, and we'll be announcing more events soon. You can learn [e-mail] festival. That's newyorker.com festival.

[Alex DePalma]

What is the Ter Must see Paris list? Like, what do you have to do when you come to Paris?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I don't know that there's a. Every time I have to. I do love Paul Bear. I just. The Paul Bear is a part of.

[Alex DePalma]

The flea market in Kliancourt, and there's.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

A restaurant, the Paul Bear Restaurant.

[Alex DePalma]

I haven't been there.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay. It's really good.

[Choma Menardi]

I think I went there with Lynn. She might have taken me there.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I truly was like, another great restaurant. No, I think it's just one floor. But I walked in and there were so many Americans there. And I looked at my friend and I was like, really? Where are we? What are we doing here? Come on, guys. It's so hard to get the reservation. That food. I could have worn that steak op. I kid you not. I was like, what is this? It was fantastic. But mostly I like to see what the exhibits are and what's happening. Like when I came during in July for Couture, I went and I had a wonderful tour at the Louvre. That was wonderful.

[Alex DePalma]

Of the fashion exhibition, right?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, we just. We did a proper private tour.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, wow.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Of the hall of Greats. It was exceptional. And then there was a pool in the center of the beautiful place, and there were all these bowls. Someone had a show there. And it's a wonderful private collection. Is it the Pinot collection? Oh, yes. That is what it is. Yes.

[Choma Menardi]

Yes.

[Alex DePalma]

It's the Tadao Andao.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes. So that whole thing.

[Choma Menardi]

And there we go.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Thank you. And there, Gallery seven upstairs, did an exhibit on black bodies that was everything from, like, man Ray to, like, Kerry James Marshall. Like, just a beautiful exhibit or collection of just all different kinds of beautiful pieces that I loved. We also went and saw. God, I have the worst memory. The Vuitton. Is there a Vuitton?

[Alex DePalma]

There's a Foundation Vuitton. And there was a Hockney exhibit. Maybe you saw that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I missed that again. What we've discovered is Chloe has a better memory of my life than mine, so I'm grateful. And I might need to bring you with me everywhere.

[Alex DePalma]

Popping out of Tracy's purse to correct.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

What we're talking about. Yeah. Whenever I can't think of something, I'm like, Chloe.

[Alex DePalma]

Choma. Have you seen the Virgil exhibit that just.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, I heard it was wonderful.

[Choma Menardi]

I got to go and see it. They invited me to do a round table, and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to make the timing work, but I think they're doing a lot of activations there, which is really great. It sounds incredible.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Talk about the products you're using.

[Choma Menardi]

Sure. What?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Just. Cause I mean, like, are you using, like, pattern on your hair?

[Alex DePalma]

Well, I love this pattern. I know it's not for people who need hydration.

[Choma Menardi]

We were talking, actually, because I think a few of the producers here use. I've been using pattern.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay. Okay.

[Choma Menardi]

Yes. So how do you pack your beauty products?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's ridiculous. There's usually a bag for.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, that's insane.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Because you need that. The other thing is, if I have multiple stops, I have learned no one bag has, like, all shoes or all.

[Alex DePalma]

Oh, smart.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I literally. It's outfit with the shoes that go with it all go in one bag. So that If a bag gets lost, I can still live and be fine.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, yes, this is a great strategy.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes, very. I had one year I packed. So it all started at 12 years old when we went on a trip and my luggage got lost. I still have not seen where was the trip to. We were on our way to the Bahamas. It's when my mother met my stepfather. And great. But I'm still missing some of my pieces. I had a yellow guest Velcro, oversized shirts that I could still use. Today. I, for some reason, decided to put my jewelry in the bag that'll never happen again. A Tiffany's, like, stack of pearls, ring, my Elsa Peretti kidney bean.

[Choma Menardi]

Gone. No.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, gone.

[Choma Menardi]

So how so you don't have PTSD from that you still are able to check? Because that's why I get really scared about checking anything because I'm like, can I bear to be without this?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I check it all, and then my carry on I could live out of for a week if I had to.

[Choma Menardi]

Okay, that's a good idea. And just look chic and nothing like super precious goes things that you. One of a kind.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

None of that. Like, this was rolled up. This jumpsuit was rolled up in my carry on. Okay.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, wow.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah, the jacket's warm, but this was rolled up. But I had one direct flight, so it was okay. But wait, I cut myself off. We were talking about products. Pattern Body.

[Choma Menardi]

Yes.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

So we just launched Body, which is a dry scrub, a shower gel, a lotion, an oil and a cream.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, so this is good for travel then? Because then you don't need to.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And we do have one product.

[Choma Menardi]

Travel size.

[Alex DePalma]

No, it's all those different things. Hilarious.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Wait, it's incredible.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, wait, the whole thing. I thought it was that one product because, you know, they do these products.

[Alex DePalma]

That would be amazing.

[Choma Menardi]

I was like, I have never heard.

[Alex DePalma]

Of this lotion in one.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And you. And it pays your bills, it cooks your food, and it's for Body. It's incredible. We have changed the world. No, I mean, I love your confidence in me and my products.

[Choma Menardi]

This is.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

We have chomas look so good. Choma was like, what? Neat? Yeah. No, but we went from pattern yellow to sweet tomato, which is like an orange. So it's. Yeah. Very good. Yeah, Very nice. Very nice.

[Alex DePalma]

Tracy. I want to know where we might be going in season two.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

We're working on that.

[Alex DePalma]

Okay, so what's your bucket list?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Well, I really wanted to go surfing because I've never surfed. And so there was a part of me that wanted to Try that. So maybe Australia. I've never been to Japan. I would love to go to Switzerland or the south of France.

[Alex DePalma]

Okay.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I don't like going places that I go regularly and know because I like. I don't like adventure. Don't get me wrong. I have no need to be adventurous, but I do like to experience new places. So those are some of that are on my list.

[Choma Menardi]

I'm sort of curious because what for me was. What's such a breath of fresh air? Because often travel shows are usually fronted by, you know, some old white guy. And this idea of traveling while black, which I think for a lot of people, like, there are certain places that as a black or brown person, you feel less comfortable. I mean, is this something that you.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

When you.

[Choma Menardi]

Yes, that is something I definitely thought. Yeah.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah. I didn't think it would be fair because although I might go there and feel safe because I had a production around me, I didn't want to give people the impression that somewhere was comfortable or safe to go if you weren't. And what I say to people in talking about solo travel, that I think it's really important to ask yourself those questions. What are the areas that might be the most beautiful part of you but might leave you vulnerable somewhere else in the world? And what can you. How can you do some due diligence in advance to really make sure that it's a place that you can be comfortable, whether you're lgbtq, queer, trans, black, you know, whatever you, A woman on your own, disabled, whatever that may be, that you really sort of make that a part of your planning of the trip. I think that's incredibly important. But also, what kind of solo trip do you want? And one of the things that I wanted to do with this show that was really important to me is it's less of a travel show and more of a can you be yourself by yourself out in the world? And I think it's more about the relationship with self than sort of the adventure that I'm going on and the things that I'm experiencing, although that is part of it. And I was really kind of blown away by the very. The way it resonated with people, but not just single people, because that's not the point. And I was grateful. And I think it really struck a chord in terms of the revolutionary act of enjoying your company and leaning towards joy.

[Choma Menardi]

You know, I think I was quite surprised that people still kind of remark on the fact that as a woman traveling alone, it's like, oh, we must kind of in Spain. When you're in Spain.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Oh, my God.

[Choma Menardi]

It's so. It feels so. Like. I just felt like if you were a man, nobody would be like, oh, my God. You know, like.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

You know, there's a lot of things that still shock me that I just can't believe we're still having conversations about. I'm like, really? What? Baffling to me. But, yes, people are shocked that. I mean, it's like, what? You know. Table for one. Oh, it's just you.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, God.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

No, I was joking. Yeah, it's just me. I'm good.

[Alex DePalma]

That's still one of my favorite. Sex in the city is where Carrie decides she's not going to have the shield of a book, that she's just gonna sit down and look at everyone by herself. It's my great. I mean, I have two young children. It is my greatest luxury to go.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

To a restaurant by myself and just watch Heaven. Yeah, I. I totally.

[Alex DePalma]

Why live in New York City if you're not gonna do that?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Truly, like. Yeah. But, yeah, when you're traveling, it's my favorite thing. I actually learned that in Switzerland because the Swiss stare.

[Choma Menardi]

Yeah, they do.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

My people stare, let me tell you. Are you.

[Choma Menardi]

My mother is Swiss. I spent a lot of time there.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

But it is fa. It's a. I grew up there and I went to boarding school in.

[Choma Menardi]

Oh, my God.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Of course.

[Choma Menardi]

You know.

[Alex DePalma]

And did you go to La Rose?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I went to La Rose. Oh.

[Alex DePalma]

So did my mother.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes.

[Alex DePalma]

She set the olden on fire.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It was amazing and interesting. And then we had a home in Verbier the whole time growing up because my stepdad lived there. The Swiss. It is fascinating. You can literally wave at them, staring at you, and they'll just stay staring at you to this day. Even when I go to Switzerland now, I'm always like, no. Is this a Swiss train?

[Choma Menardi]

Straight.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's like a thing. It's like chocolate and staring and clocks. And clocks and happy cows. The first time I was in Switzerland, I saw this cow, sort of. Well, I didn't know it was a cow. I was like, what is that? Is that a giant dog? But it was like a frolicking cow. And I was like, that's why the cheese is good. They're happy. They're happy.

[Alex DePalma]

Happy cows make happy cheese.

[Choma Menardi]

And they're literally on the top of the mountain.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

They're just grazing and doing their thing. Yeah, we digress. Sorry.

[Alex DePalma]

I know what I want to ask.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yeah.

[Alex DePalma]

Your birthday's a month from today or yesterday, right?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Yes. I'm not Even counting anymore. I'm at that age.

[Alex DePalma]

What's the birthday plan?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I have no birthday plan.

[Alex DePalma]

Okay.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I am at an age where half the time I'm like, how old am I?

[Choma Menardi]

I did that for the first time.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's very weird.

[Choma Menardi]

Forgot my age.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's.

[Choma Menardi]

I was like, this is scary.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

It's a fabulous thing. I think it's fabulous. Yes. I think it's fabulous. So I don't have a plan for this birthday, which feels liberating and great. I did something big for my 50th. I don't know that I care. My life is a bit of a gift. Oh, that's a good answer. I mean, truly. Like, I. Like, you know, I'm in Paris right now for such an important, lovely season of fashion, and I'm here having. You know what I mean? Like, it feels. And I'm wearing a leather Phoebe Filo jumpsuit. Like, what?

[Choma Menardi]

What could go wrong?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

What could go wrong? What could go right?

[Alex DePalma]

All of it. You can get sweaty.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I could. I could, but I was sweaty enough at Dior.

[Alex DePalma]

Okay, last question. What are you reading and watching while you're traveling?

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay, I don't know the name of the book that I'm reading because it is not out yet and was handed to me by a friend of mine who's a book editor. Oh, well, this is not helpful. No, it is not. But it's a very good book.

[Alex DePalma]

This is like when my mother, she goes, I went to a dinner party last night. I sat next to someone who knows who.

[Choma Menardi]

Nothing.

[Alex DePalma]

What'd they look like? Nothing.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Okay, this is a good compensation. Thanks for telling me. But then the one I'm listening to is called Sisters. The Sisters. And this is by Jonas Hasan Khemiri. It's very interesting. Long. Which is why I ended up deciding to listen to that one. And it is like.

[Choma Menardi]

You're like, I can't pack that.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

And it's a hardcover. So I started listening to it. And then the book that I was given was a little one. And so that was the one I took with me for the trip. And it's very good.

[Choma Menardi]

It's very cool.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

Well, this was fantastic. Thank you. I'm sorry I made you guys wait a little bit.

[Choma Menardi]

No, we're just fine.

[Tracee Ellis Ross]

I'm sure I will see you at some of the other lovely adventures.

[Alex DePalma]

That's it for the Run Through. See you tomorrow, everyone. The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Stephanie Cariuki, with help from Emily Elias. It's engineered by Pran Bandy and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of Global Audio.

[Choma Menardi]

Hi, it's Cho Menardi. If you're not on the Vogue app yet, what the hell are you doing? You can follow along with me and other editors as we talk about everything happening in fashion. Think you're already a fashion expert? Well, find out how your Runway IQ stacks up against the Vogue community with an all new Runway genius leaderboard. So download the Vogue app today and you'll never miss a moment. From prx.