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- [00:01]
Arden Fanning Andrews
This episode of the Run through is brought to you by ebay. I'm Arden Fanning Andrews, Vogue's beauty editor at large. Everyone's talking about tassels right now, and that's the moment that I end up typing it into ebay. I found the perfect vintage triple chain belt with golden tassels, and it just looks so elegant, timeless. And it's on the way in the mail to me, thanks to ebay.
- [00:30]
Chloe Mel
This is the Run Through. I'm Chloe Mel.
- [00:32]
Cheminati
And I'm Cheminati.
- [00:34]
Chloe Mel
And on today's episode, Nicole Phelps spoke to Vogue businesses America's editor Hilary Milnes and beauty editor Natisha Scott about what we all might look like in the next 20 years. This is an amazing package that Vogue business did and very ambitious, but it also really spooked me because it is a fascinating look at what they called it, the future of appearance. It is a snapshot predicting what we all might look like in two decades. And it breaks down what features on our faces and bodies we will be enhancing and the beauty treatments that will be in hot demand in the years to come. And for their reporting, they spoke to plastic surgeons, CEOs in the beauty industry. They looked at the ways AI will show up in the future. So there really was a lot that went into this, and I loved hearing the conversation. I thought it was really interesting.
- [01:26]
Cheminati
Yeah, the AI renderings of the faces of the future really spooked me. But, you know, we're already. We're sort of like halfway there. Honestly, when you. When you. When you. When I scroll through my Instagram, I think filters have taken us halfway there. We're just kind of catching up IRL with how our faces are going to look. Anyway, can't wait to listen for that choma.
- [01:50]
Chloe Mel
We are coming off Easter weekend. Did you do anything to celebrate?
- [01:55]
Cheminati
No, I just went for a hike. But, you know, I'm kind of curious to know what you did, because as a kid, I used to love Easter. And I know you have two little ones who are adorable.
- [02:04]
Chloe Mel
It's really tailor made for kids, I have to say. It's like Easter Bunny is a completely confusing entity, but he really. He makes it fun.
- [02:13]
Cheminati
Yeah.
- [02:13]
Hilary Milnes
There's chocolate.
- [02:14]
Cheminati
More fun than Santa. Bit more nimble.
- [02:15]
Chloe Mel
Yes. Hide and seek. There was a whole thing this year that because the price of eggs is so expensive, people were dying. Potatoes.
- [02:23]
Cheminati
Oh, God. Really?
- [02:24]
Chloe Mel
They did not turn out well. They looked like planets with eyes. Oh, dear. And even Arthur was like, these are weird. But we also did dye some eggs, and then we've been eating them all week, which is fun.
- [02:38]
Cheminati
No, it goes to waste.
- [02:40]
Chloe Mel
Yeah. Choma, how's your trip to New York been?
- [02:44]
Cheminati
It's been great. It's been really fun. I mean, kicked it off with the Ralph Lauren show, which was actually such a fun New York moment. Usually Ralph shows in the evening, but he showed in this sort of like light field Gallery, the Jack Shaiman Gallery, and had been recently renovated. And so that's this incredible ceiling.
- [03:05]
Chloe Mel
I am curious, Choma. I always enjoy that Ralph Lauren shows off calendar because it just makes it feel like more of a special event. But I'm curious if you can explain to us why they choose to do that.
- [03:16]
Cheminati
That's a good question. I think. I think certain brands understand that they can get their community together for these moments. I think Ralph obviously has a very starry circle of friends and fans of the brand. And usually shows close to the Met Gala because that's when a lot of the Ralph fans are in town.
- [03:40]
Chloe Mel
Yeah.
- [03:41]
Cheminati
And it was exceptionally starry. I mean, to see Anne Hathaway and I mean, who else was there?
- [03:48]
Chloe Mel
Naomi Watson, Michelle Williams, also Julia Louis Dreyfus, who was a big excitement for me.
- [03:54]
Cheminati
Yeah.
- [03:55]
Chloe Mel
No, they had a really. A very major front row. What would you say was the fashion takeaway from the show?
- [04:02]
Cheminati
It felt very true to. I mean, Ralph always speaks to the things like his loves, his obsessions. I think in a nutshell, it was kind of like tender and tough. Like this kind of tension between sort of romantic, like Victorian style blouses with these sort of tough leather jackets.
- [04:22]
Chloe Mel
Tender and tough is tender and tough.
- [04:24]
Cheminati
Yeah. And I think, you know, you think of those great 80s and 90s Ralph campaigns and it sort of spoke. It had a little bit of that nostalgia to it, but it felt super, super good for now. Yeah. And I think there's been kind of a romantic mood in the air. Think about the Chloe collection. You know, what Shemin has been doing at Chloe. And it had a. I think it was Ralph kind of claiming some of that history, but in his own way with that sort of those leather staples that we all love. And the evening wear was really fab too. This long shirt dress. You can just imagine someone like sweeping onto the red carpet and looking kind of effortless in.
- [05:15]
Chloe Mel
Yeah.
- [05:16]
Cheminati
Actually very Anne Hathaway.
- [05:17]
Chloe Mel
Mm.
- [05:18]
Cheminati
Yeah.
- [05:18]
Chloe Mel
She was shopping.
- [05:19]
Cheminati
Yeah, she was definitely shopping.
- [05:21]
Chloe Mel
Choma, what is your resort schedule and what shows are you excited about? Usually resort season tends to be destination shows. Chanel is showing their cruise collection in Lake Como next Tuesday.
- [05:36]
Cheminati
Right.
- [05:36]
Chloe Mel
Vuitton is showing In Avignon. Dior, I believe, is also in Italy.
- [05:40]
Cheminati
I know that Dolce showing in. In Rome this year.
- [05:43]
Chloe Mel
Resort shows are happening in Italy.
- [05:45]
Cheminati
Resort shows are happening in Italy. So it's going to be busy summer.
- [05:49]
Chloe Mel
Well, speaking of Italy, big, big Italy week with the beloved Pope dying on Easter.
- [05:55]
Cheminati
I know, I know.
- [05:57]
Chloe Mel
I love him.
- [05:58]
Cheminati
I'm sad.
- [05:59]
Chloe Mel
And I was sort of moved by how moved the whole world was by this. Like, it really felt like it sort of rocked everyone in a way I wasn't totally anticipating same.
- [06:09]
Cheminati
And I think a lot of people are sort of learning about his life, his legacy, what sort of humble approach he had to the papacy, wanting to be buried in a very simple, you know, coffin, living in very simple quarters. His sort of plea to JD Vance to remember and be kind of have some sympathy and empathy for immigrants. I think it resonates at this moment in history when everybody is like, when the world feels quite out of control and someone who was kind of doing, doing such amazing work and not making, I don't know, just the humanity of him.
- [06:48]
Chloe Mel
Yeah. The funeral will be this weekend in Rome and I know sort of all heads of state will be going. I think it'll be a big moment. We have Chiara Barzini, who's a great Roman writer.
- [07:01]
Cheminati
Right. Chiara.
- [07:02]
Chloe Mel
She's doing a sort of Postcard from Rome for us with. She spoke to a gentleman who's a Vatican insider for some inside scoop. And also, I'm so excited, Anna Coppola is doing a really fun piece on Filippo Sorcinelli, who is the Pope's tailor. He's this very handsome gay man who Button magazine just did a big spread on. But we will be getting something exclusive, too. And then there's also the famous, more traditional Pope Taylor Pope's tailor, Gammarelli, which is where you can get the iconic red socks. That's sort of if you know, you know Rome well.
- [07:38]
Cheminati
Didn't Andre Leon Talley buy his socks?
- [07:40]
Chloe Mel
Yes, everyone buys their socks at Gamarelli. Yes, you heard it here last, people. But so we're speaking to Gamarelli and Filippo about making the future Pope's vestments. And Gamarelli told Anna that they are already preparing vestments in small, medium and large, depending on who it is.
- [08:01]
Cheminati
I love that, which I love.
- [08:02]
Chloe Mel
But yes, I also think that because of Conclave, the film, there's sort of increased interest. But Emma Spec do a great fact versus fiction, the movie versus real life and fun fact. Emma's mom, Alessandra Stanley, was a Vatican reporter for many Years in her youth. Yes. So, yeah, that's been a big moment. And last night we're recording this Wednesday afternoon. But last night there was a surprise concert in Washington Square park by Lorde.
- [08:33]
Cheminati
How cool.
- [08:33]
Chloe Mel
Sort of prepping for a new album. We had an inside tip, so Irene Kim and Sam Sussman went as our intrepid boots on the ground. But she was supposed to come on at 7pm and came on at 9.30pm but apparently it was a real New York moment of sort of screaming teenagers and college students all sort of huddled together in Washington Square park waiting for that.
- [08:56]
Cheminati
Oh, I love that. I'm actually tonight I'm gonna see a sort of performance on the roof of Soho House of 50 Cent, which is quite a different crowd, but I'm quite excited.
- [09:08]
Chloe Mel
Same but different. Same but different Choma. Tell us what you can about how your Met look is coming. I want to know accessories too. I want to know glam plans.
- [09:20]
Cheminati
Okay, yeah, the glam. The, the, the accessories are all coming together. I've. I've got some really cool Tory Burch shoes. I'm going with Tory Burch to the Met and they have these really amazing metal detail that sort of hooks up with the, the belt that I'm wearing. It's this huge metallic kind of western inspired belt by Martin Rose. And actually was just getting some updates about my look. My suit is ready, but the shirt and the tie are still in the works, which makes me slightly nervous because obviously these things have to be shipped from the uk from Martine's studio. And then sort of figuring out some jewels. I think I'm gonna wear some Cartier jewels, maybe a brooch, maybe some earrings.
- [10:09]
Chloe Mel
We're hearing a lot of brooch.
- [10:11]
Cheminati
Big brooch, Big brooch energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's a brooch moment.
- [10:15]
Chloe Mel
It is a brooch moment. I'm going to be in the war room for the evening, but I'm still going to wear something fabulous because I would like to go to an after party or two. GQ is hosting an after party with Andre 3000, which sounds fab. I'm excited for that. And there's a really pretty dura Oluwu dress that I love that I'm looking at. And then there's also a really pretty erdem, tailored sort of long coat, embroidered, an embellished suit jacket that I thought was good for the theme. And then for the pre Met party, which is at Ginny's supper club, the jazz club in the basement of Red Rooster, Marcus Samuelson's restaurant in Harlem. The theme or the dress code is blue notes because it's sort of a Jazz age reference. And so I think people should wear blue. I loved the Christopher John Rogers by J. Crew collaboration. And there's a really pretty blue sequin dress from that that I'm excited about.
- [11:17]
Cheminati
Yeah, I didn't pack enough blue, but I think I might. I've got like this kind of navy blue striped Vivienne Westwood jacket and this red kind of flapperish, perfect Bodhi thing that I can wear over some denim, some blue jeans. That's what I'm gonna.
- [11:33]
Chloe Mel
Oh, there you go. There's your blue note.
- [11:35]
Cheminati
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Oh, we didn't talk about Sinners. I'm going to see Sinners.
- [11:40]
Chloe Mel
People are obsessed with sinners.
- [11:42]
Cheminati
I know. It was impossible to get tickets.
- [11:44]
Hilary Milnes
Really?
- [11:44]
Cheminati
I love that. Yeah. It was.
- [11:46]
Chloe Mel
Back to the movies.
- [11:47]
Cheminati
Yeah. Cause we want to go see it in imax.
- [11:50]
Chloe Mel
Oh, my God. So fun. I know thespy was seeing it in 70 millimeter, which I thought was a very chic video person. Yeah. Sinners. Unfortunately, the only movie I've seen in theaters recently is Minecraft with Arthur Albert. But you do you.
- [12:06]
Cheminati
It's a sleeper hit. I've heard it's made so much money at the box office.
- [12:10]
Chloe Mel
No comment. But you know what? They're there to support my children. The run through will be back with Nicole Phelps.
- [12:33]
Arden Fanning Andrews
The other day I like, went on a real ebay spree. There's this huge push for like 80s opulence and 80s sort of glamour, and we're going to see that returning. And so I was already kind of tapped into that just from my gorgeous ebay watch list. And I found a really beautiful Chloe blazer from the 80s and a really great Miu Miu killed these great Dior boots. And I'm combining them all together. Sometimes trend forecasting doesn't require something that's going to be, like, produced in the future. Sometimes you can, like tap into the past and tap into the archive as well. That's what makes ebay a fun place to actually discover things because you're not going in with something so specific in mind, but you have an idea of what you're interested in or what you're excited about or, you know, just truly trend forecasting. And so one thing that I would say people should be watching out for is like, very opulent 80s style.
- [13:37]
Natisha Scott
It is so good to have you both here. And I'm going to start with you, Natisha. We have talked about botox and fillers. For as long as I have been in fashion publishing over two decades. But we are here today to talk about the future, the next two decades, 20 years from now. Can you give us some broad strokes based on these articles about where the beauty industry and all of us are heading next?
- [14:02]
Nicole Phelps
Of course, I think is what's really interesting is looking at the past 20 years and what the real shift is and what's taking place. We've gone from coming out of the 90s into a very strong beauty YouTube influencer industry with heavy glam. So we've gone from the likes of highlighting, concept, contouring, baking to a a real shift where consumers are now really into this internal understanding. So that's where we've seen with the skincare and makeup hybrid trends. But then we're really understanding now that it's not just about surface levels. So beauty and wellness are converging and we've had the support of aesthetics and medicine to where we're seeing the external and internal links. So moving forward, those trends will continue to unfold and unravel. And that's essentially what we unpacking the future of appearance package. And we're essentially seeing regenerative medicine, we're seeing exosomes, we're seeing polynucleotides. So this essence of understanding that how we look internally in terms of cell performance will essentially eradicate on the outside as well.
- [15:12]
Natisha Scott
Right? Yeah.
- [15:13]
Hilary Milnes
And I would add that it feels like the big theme is everyone will be doing more while trying to look like they're doing less. It just feels like there are more products, more treatments, more procedures that you can get. But at the same time, the very obvious, oh, I know that you know, she work done. The ultimate goal is to have that not happen. So it's the undetectable but very orchestrated face.
- [15:35]
Nicole Phelps
Absolutely.
- [15:36]
Natisha Scott
There's a very strong focus throughout these pieces about non aging and the idea of all of us living a lot longer. Do you agree that that's one of the big takeaways of the piece? And what are the other themes?
- [15:51]
Nicole Phelps
100%. This is actually something that we thought was so important to understand when we did our consumer beauty standards survey. It's not just reducing wrinkles anymore, it's how can we extend our cell life, how can we feel better for longer, how can we biohack to essentially perform at our best? So we've found that aging is now tied into longevity and this essence of living longer. So I think that was a really poignant theme that came out of the survey. Another two that really stood out for me was cosmetic treatments, which surprisingly, less than a third of responders had actually invested in in the last five to 10 years. Well, that's completely going to flip the script going forward in the next 10, 15, 20 years, where on the back of the undetectable trend and the aesthetics that we've seen with subtlety, it's all about that enhancement versus transformation. And because we've seen such a strong conversation on social media, more consumers are wanting to invest in cosmetics as part of their kind of beauty routine alongside the products that they're buying on shelves. And then I think for me, the other one was glps. And we know that's been such a hot conversation culturally around the zempic and wegovy and just weight loss advancements that have taken place from the red carpet to consumers in the past 12 to 18 months. So what we're now seeing is that many consumers, more than half, are expecting that to reshape beauty standards going forward. So that's something that was quite a divisive takeaway. And I think the final one was AI, which I know we'll go into a bit later. But it was surprising to see that many consumers were actually open to investing in AI in the future. But they did have their reasons for that, and that being it's to help them predict future appearances, such as what will they look like with aging and wrinkles, et cetera, and kind of forecasting what they could look like, but also personalized products. So they made sure they want to incorporate AI into their routines to know exactly what's going to work for their skin.
- [17:52]
Natisha Scott
What about you, Hilary? Do you have anything to add?
- [17:55]
Hilary Milnes
Yeah, I was really struck across all of the articles in the package of just how scientific it really is, and using words like regenerative and stem cell therapy and it exosomes that appeared in your one story. And I was like, I have no idea what this even is, but it's, you know, your cellular DNA and makeup. So it feels like that is the difference between this conversation around longevity just being a new marketing term for anti aging. You know, we don't say anti aging anymore. We say living longer. And where there would actually be a difference in what we're doing and what we look like. Is that science? So are we there right now? It doesn't feel like it, but, you know, it seemed like the unanimous consensus. All of the experts we talked to, from dermatologists to the dentists, is that's where all of the work is heading right now. And so, you know, that could be the difference between, are you dying your hair, are you making sure that your hair doesn't turn gray for, you know, additional time?
- [18:50]
Natisha Scott
Definitely want to learn how to make that happen. So before we dig in, can we talk about how the, the surveys worked? How did you collect all of this data?
- [19:00]
Nicole Phelps
So essentially what we did was we worked with our Conde Nast Global customer insights team, and what we did was we essentially was like, okay, this is the brief we that understand how consumers are interpreting, reinterpreting standards today. And that's everything they're seeing on social media to what they're consuming from in the headlines. And then we wanted to work out how is that going to change in the future? Because essentially that's what brands want to know. They want to know how they can market and tap into the consumer and also the growing and changing sentiment.
- [19:28]
Natisha Scott
All right, so we should start at the top. Our faces. What are we going to look like in 20 years? How are we going to look different than we look today?
- [19:39]
Hilary Milnes
It's subtle, right? It's, it's not very different. I think that right now, if you have had work done, it might be obvious the goal of the future is to make it so it's very much not the case. It's going to be less reliant on products like cosmetics and blush and contour and, you know, more reliant on what's underneath. So that skincare and treatment conversation that is really combining the two. So I would say it's not so much like a strive for perfection. I think we're also seeing a circle back to our more natural features, but improved. But yeah, I would say across all of the articles, you know, Natisha, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. It was almost striking. Like it's not a massive difference, it's just more like you, but better.
- [20:24]
Nicole Phelps
Exactly. And I think one of the biggest takeaways on my side, just kind of pushing on. What Hilary was just saying is it's the healthier version of you, so its skin will be healthier, tighter, lifted, brighter, in a nutshell. And texture and quality was one of the main takeaways I got from speaking to the different dermatologists and surgeons to essentially say that the structure of the skin is where all the changes are happening. And as a result, we'll see these subtle changes and that will be spread from advancements in surgery, to cosmetic work, as we mentioned, even to skincare products becoming so hyper personalized and tailored to what your skin needs, that as a result, we've got Youthfulness, we've got vibrancy and just skin just looks healthier.
- [21:08]
Natisha Scott
So this whole obsession with skin texture, I think I am not immune to this. It's because we're sitting on zooms all day. Do you think, or are there other reasons why we have sort of moved on to texture and consistency as such a like, particular driver for us?
- [21:25]
Hilary Milnes
I think the zoom face phenomenon is responsible for so much of where this is all headed because not only we're looking at ourselves more than ever. You're noticing, you know, how your face moves when. When you react to something, you're just picking on qualities or perceived flaws on your face that you might not otherwise really dwell on. I'm not immune to it either. I think it's very much the driver for not only we're headed in terms of skin texture, but also just the knowledge that people have around what's available, what's out there. It feels like it's converged all at the same time. We're always on our phones. We understand more about the industry than ever before. What's available, what products are on the market, what new treatments are available. I think it feels like there's always something new that we can select as here's the big thing to fix right now. I think on social media it's hooded eyelids. So there is always going to be a new treatment to fix something. And it does kind of feel like the industry is picking on the fact that we're always is looking at ourselves. And whether we're on zoom or posting pictures on social media or live streaming on Tik Tok, those types of things, it's just so much is centered around your face.
- [22:33]
Natisha Scott
I remember early days in the pandemic. Tom Ford gave us at Vogue a lesson in how to look good on zoom. So no overhead lights. The camera needs to be at eye level or above. And oftentimes when I'm at my desk, the camera is looking up, you know, under my chin and I'm like, why haven't I fixed my camera?
- [22:51]
Hilary Milnes
Did he recommend the beauty filter? Because I use that.
- [22:54]
Nicole Phelps
I use that.
- [22:55]
Natisha Scott
Neither of you need it. We're moving on to the body. There's already a palpable change that you've both mentioned in our culture with the increased use of weight loss drugs like Ozempic. Natisha, in what ways will you see this continuing in our future and how might it go further?
- [23:11]
Nicole Phelps
It's an interesting one because there are two kind of stories to unpick, I think from an Ozempic and weight loss and advancements journey. We're seeing metabolic reprogramming, which was actually something that we took away from speaking to the experts in our products of the future piece where weight loss advancements will settle. And what we'll have instead is consumers will be so in tune with essentially what's speeding up their metabolism, what's slowing down their metabolism and then building a kind of healthy lifestyle around being able to biohack our metabolism. And then what we're also seeing is this kind of tap out and consumers essentially might not want to be involved in the advancements with weight loss changes, but also then we'll still see an appreciation of body diversity. I think that was one really big takeaway is that whilst the zempic and weight loss advancement seems to be trending and promoting a singular body type, there will be consumers that also want nothing to do with it and they're happy to embrace their figure as it is. And I think the two stories will run along as two parallel stories going forward.
- [24:18]
Hilary Milnes
Well, I think there's an interesting question where if this type of drug and weight loss is so available to everyone and accessible, does it swing back in the other direction? I don't know. Natisha, what do you think? Because to me that is. It's almost weird to think about it in that sense, but it just feels like we are headed back towards this thin as in standard. But if it no longer becomes this thing that you achieve, it becomes the standard, do people sort of want to shift away from that norm again?
- [24:50]
Nicole Phelps
That was definitely a takeaway from a few speaking to a few surgeons is that we'll see this ozempic and single trending body type settle just within the consumer industry and we might see a swing back. But what we will understand is that there will be more than one story or more than one body type to tell. Even though right now we are definitely seeing the thinner silhouette taking steam.
- [25:14]
Natisha Scott
That's definitely true. On the runways Vogue business, our colleagues do the size inclusivity report and this season there was a real rollback of advancements, right?
- [25:25]
Nicole Phelps
Yeah.
- [25:25]
Hilary Milnes
It feels like we've kind of abandoned the body diversity on the Runway story. And I think the Ozempic era is much to blame for that.
- [25:33]
Nicole Phelps
Oh, 100%.
- [25:34]
Natisha Scott
Yeah. So readers will remember from a previous episode that I am newly obsessed with protein because of the effects of aging on muscle loss. I understand from some of the reporting that you've done that there might be a new way to retain muscle by injecting fat, which is really fascinating to me. Natisha, can you tell us about that, of course.
- [25:54]
Nicole Phelps
So muscle essentially is going to be the next frontier. And I think what we're seeing is, is fat being used in a way that hasn't been used before. So we'll be able to inject that into muscles based on a healthy diet. So the expert I was able to speak to, Dr. Roy Kim, who is a plastic surgeon in San Francisco and Beverly Hills, he was saying that what we're moving on from post Ozempic and the weight loss conversation is that muscle deterioration and what we'll then start to see is advancements where we'll be able to inject fat into the muscle. And as long as consumers are able to work out and eat healthy, that fat can turn into muscle. And as a result we'll have a more slimmer toned, ultra defined silhouette. And Those are the AI images that we unpick within the features. 20, 30 years from now, you're able to see an ultra defined body type based on turning fat into muscle.
- [26:46]
Natisha Scott
Well, we have to talk about teeth because teeth have become a real talking point in the culture right now thanks to Amy Liu Wood, the star of the White Lotus and snl. They sort of poked fun at her and she clapped back, which got a lot of attention. So where, where should we start?
- [27:07]
Hilary Milnes
Yeah, well, we dedicated a whole story to just teeth of the future because I think to your point, it's such a focal point and it's interesting because I think, you know, when we were brainstorming these articles, it feels like we're in a veneer epidemic where everyone has the same teeth, they're shockingly white, they're way too straight and people are actually mourning. When Hollywood actors get veneers and they're talking about on social media, you know, they miss their old teeth. And that's why Amylou Wood's teeth are a breath of fresh air. People are happy to see someone's natural teeth and you know, they're such an amazing feature on her face. So our colleague Lucy McGuire wrote what will our teeth look like in 2045? And I noticed two trends. It's one, she went to almost like a dental spa where she, what she said was a facial for the inside of your mouth. So I think dental treatments, dental health is going to only become more of a luxury and something that you can, I don't know, sets apart like just your regular trip to the dentist. And on the other side, I think that veneers as we know it are going to change. It's, we go into it in the story this concept of turkey teeth because people allegedly go to turkey for veneers because they're a lot cheaper. But that's really where you get that thick, white, very straight, uniform smile that I think is starting to fall out of fashion a little bit. So it's going to become more natural, more, you know, unique to you. But that status symbol still where, you know, if you have this very nice set of teeth, that's going to become a focal point or just like a marker that you have, you know, good health and all of these things that it feels like we're heading towards that come down to wellness, health and how you take care of your body.
- [28:53]
Nicole Phelps
Agreed. Teeth are getting sexy again. Is the line I took from that feature good?
- [29:00]
Natisha Scott
I think next to wigs, which are like a plague on Hollywood, I think veneers are the. Are the second biggest plague. So something else that may soon be obsolete along with natural teeth, I understand, is scars. Is that right? Like plastic surgeons can take care of scars. Can you talk a little bit about that, Natisha?
- [29:20]
Nicole Phelps
Of course. So this is actually a really interesting point that frames our future plastic surgery piece that one of our contributors, Amy Francombe, wrote for us. And what that essentially is, is we're seeing advancements in stem cell therapy, which is something that we all naturally have within our own bodies and our own ecosystems. But what that be able to do in the future is essentially rebuild and we'll be able to heal by ourselves. So what they're doing is that at the moment, stem cells are only used from. Be taken from bone marrow. But essentially they're saying in the future that they'll be able to use that within treatments and on essentially skin repair. So. So it's taking surgery to a completely new level where consumers won't need to kind of heal for weeks on end post surgery. They'll be able to inject in stem cell therapies where lunchtime treatments literally could be done in lunchtime, and you will be none the wiser. And it all just continues to unpack in the conversation around undetectable treatments that you. Soon we won't be able to tell what treatments people have been done because of these scarless innovations. Right.
- [30:25]
Hilary Milnes
I think it opens up options because if you think about what could you do if you weren't worried about the resulting scar, you know, a lot more possibilities.
- [30:32]
Natisha Scott
Hmm. So AI, as I understand, has a large role in this. Could you both talk about the ways that AI will show up in the future of beauty?
- [30:43]
Arden Fanning Andrews
Of course.
- [30:44]
Nicole Phelps
I mean, to be fair, AI is a huge Part of beauty like as it is today. I mean we all those that do wear our wearables and our trackables know that AI is essentially brought in to colonize all the data points and tell us for example aura that we're stressed today. So AI exists in our day to day. We also have virtual try on tools where you can flip between lipstick colors. We also have, you can go head to counter and there'll be skin analysis tools that'll essentially be able to unpick sun exposure and pigmentation. So it does exist in our primary today. But what we'll see is that advancement where for example for surgery there'll be AI guided injectables where, where AI will detect exactly where filler is needed so it doesn't over volumize skin. We're seeing it as an enhancement or a transformation in that way. And equally we're then seeing this kind of play out with products as well. So we're seeing hyper personalized products based on AI guiding and culminating data within our wellness health and routines and arenas. So I think those were the two biggest takeaways that I found with AI. I don't know if. Hilary, you had anything.
- [31:50]
Hilary Milnes
Yeah, no, I think it came up in almost every article because that is, I mean one, it's probably the buzziest tech right now, but it's also, it's opening up new possibilities across like you mentioned, everything from procedures to skincare to what types of products are actually best for us. For me the big question is, and you know, I don't think we're here today, but does it actually feel personalized? Does it actually feel like it's adding something, you know, that I didn't know about myself before? Right now, anytime I've encountered an AI quiz to get your most personalized shampoo, it just feels like something still generic and not actually tailored to me and my needs. So I think that will be the big test is does it actually feel like it's offering something that you can't get otherwise and really feels tailored to you?
- [32:34]
Natisha Scott
Right. It's a little bit of a marketing scheme at the moment. How do we protect ourselves in the future? I'm interested in that point. But also this idea of perfection and perfectibility and authenticity and realness that to me is really the nut of this conversation. It's how do you reconcile these two sort of competing instincts?
- [32:59]
Hilary Milnes
Right. I'm worried in general, all of this kind of worries me, not just the AI, I think that you know, to your point, it's one in general, do Customers feel like they're getting something in return for their data. That's the big question. That's what brands have to make sure they're delivering. And I don't know, I think it's a question of is our tolerance for what type of data we give going to change over time because the technology is improving so much. I don't think we're there yet, but I think, you know, just the rise of things like 23andMe, like that is our DNA data. Like, if you're willing to give that, you know, I think that there is really no limit to what people will give if it feels like it's worth it. But in the question of are we all just heading towards, like the sameness and the same look, I think that that is maybe where technology could help to make sure that we are preserving some sort of natural and unique features. But I'm not that optimistic that that's the case. I feel like there is going to be like, just like a human pushback to some of this that I think we're seeing already. It's that Instagram face that people are getting kind of tired of. It's the same, you know, veneer teeth that people are getting kind of tired of. But I don't know, it feels like in general it is all just. If you're all striving for perfection and here's one look and one standard, it's going to end up looking all very similar.
- [34:15]
Nicole Phelps
No, I agree. And I think it's something that we actually unpacked in our Beauty Run by Robots series at the start of the year where we spoke about AI bias, which is a real challenge where if brands and companies and the humans behind these AI platforms are not generating diverse, real, raw imagery, the AI tool will only pick up what is being fed. So we have, as humans and as brands and as companies have such also a huge responsibility in making sure that the AI system and the AI tool remains as diverse and authentic as possible. Otherwise, as we mentioned, we do run that risk of promoting a single ideal or hyper perfection or a single face. So again, the onus is definitely on brands and companies going forward.
- [35:03]
Natisha Scott
We're going to take a quick break. More in a moment.
- [35:15]
Arden Fanning Andrews
I like ebay for one of a kind items, things that feel limited edition or collections that can't be found in stores. And with the ebay authenticity guarantee, I know that when it arrives, it's real. It is a piece that is coming from the designer's collection, the designer's archive. One of the biggest conversation Points for some of the parties that I'll go to during Fashion Week are the pieces that I'm getting off of ebay. Everyone's a little bit intrigued and excited whenever they hear that you were able to find something on this digital treasure hunt.
- [35:49]
Natisha Scott
So these larger questions are in one of the pieces in this package and it uses a term that I had never heard of. I love a new portmanteau. It's called tweakment. Can you talk about what a tweakment is? Natisha? And they're not regulated. Right. And so that could lead to problems.
- [36:07]
Nicole Phelps
Problems, definitely. So a tweakment is a treatment tweaked. So what that is is essentially a non surgical treatment. So for example, that could be Botox, filler, microneedling. And we've seen that rise over the years. And the reason why it's unregulated is because there are no universal standards. So every country and region is different. But what that then means is that there are under qualified practitioners that do come out at the other side of these. So then they're delivering treatments that they shouldn't be delivering. So that's. We've seen recently in headlines, especially in the uk, that societies are trying to push for regulation with the government to ensure that we have strict guidelines and essentials across the board in terms of practitioners actually qualifying to give these treatments. Otherwise. That's why we've seen such a rise in botched treatments and sadly, in the worst case scenarios where people have been hospitalised or passed away because of the underqualified practitioners delivering these treatments. So it's something that I think, as we're continuing to see increasing consumers investing in cosmetic work, that there should be a kind of equalizing of regulation and standards from a universal perspective versus country to country.
- [37:21]
Natisha Scott
All right, I want to ask a side question here for people who are interested in this kind of work. How do you make sure that you're going to the right doctors or the right practitioners? What would you recommend is the right way forward? Is it word of mouth? How can you trust.
- [37:39]
Nicole Phelps
I think there's definitely a few ways. There's word of mouth, there is qualified and verified responses on social media, so it's doing our due diligence on social media, profiles, websites, there are marketplaces like Realself or we have these practitioners that are unbiased and they don't work necessarily with a particular doctor, but they work across different practitioners that they can also advise and recommend. So there are a range of ways that we can go through finding A trusted practitioner, but a lot of it is, I would recommend going through word of mouth as being one of them, but also just checking profiles online and verified websites such as RealSelf, that are marketplaces that only work with qualified practitioners.
- [38:20]
Hilary Milnes
Yeah. I think as this industry explodes as well, there's going to be an even bigger division between the haves and the have nots, which I feel like is a running theme throughout the series itself, like who can afford the best and what will everyone else have to do to try to keep up. So I think it's going to be another one of those, you know, who has access to the best doctors, who is kind of looking for, you know, the second best. So that's going to be an interesting thing to see evolve as well.
- [38:44]
Natisha Scott
Yes. I was really taken by this quote. It is from Minou Clark, who is the CEO of U.S. health Care Marketplace called Real Self, which you just mentioned. Right. And this person said the risk is that we'll have a future where the 1% could look like Benjamin Button and the rest of us shriveled raisins. So it, all of this conversation, this is all for the elite, right? Like, how can the rest of us sort of tap into these, these services?
- [39:14]
Hilary Milnes
I mean, I can only imagine that's all going to get more expensive. And already, you know, we feel like there's so much you need to keep up with so many beauty treatments and things that you can buy. And I feel like that is, it's not going to change. And so I think you'll see, you know, emerging industries that have, there's tears, there's levels, there's going to be. Be the best services that you can get and then everyone else will just fall into the price point and the range that they can. But I don't know, it's. It's interesting to think about when you're talking science and these, you know, actual, like very invasive, you're injecting fat into your muscles. Like you don't want to skimp on that and get that on the secondhand market. So that quote is very much resonating because is it going to be a case where there are certain things that are purely only accessible to those who can afford. Afford it?
- [40:02]
Nicole Phelps
Definitely. I think it's something that we unpack within the features around the challenges that will take place is that this will only be for those that can afford it for a very long time. But this is questions I actually found that I was asking, I was like, okay, how is the 1% and the mass consumer where do we all be able to get what we want as individuals? And a lot of them are quite rest assured that we will hit a point where democratization will happen. So there will be eventually products on the market that could also complement a treatment that costs thousands of thousands of pounds. So as Hillary mentioned, the emerging categories will see an opportunity in the future that will able to speak to the mass market.
- [40:41]
Natisha Scott
Good, because sometimes while I was reading this, it reminded me of the Hunger Games and the people in the Capitol. Remember those scenes in the Capitol? They looked so crazy, like nobody really wants to look like that. And hopefully the rest of us will participate in the ways that we want to and we don't need to be forced to either. Um, it's such a deep and rich conversation. I'm also curious if you would both weigh in on why we don't find aging beautiful.
- [41:12]
Hilary Milnes
I definitely right now blame how much we're. We're looking at ourselves. And I think it's the culture, you know, it's. It's always going to prioritize youth. Already we're obsessed with what Gen Z are doing and wearing and talking about. We're already talking about Gen Alpha. It just feels like there's this obsession with what's young and, you know, maintaining that. And it's obviously, I think, unspoken. It's a burden that's much more placed on women to maintain this youthful appearance and spend as much money as possible to do that. And I think if we would just free ourselves from this, it would. It would be so much better. But I think it's the com. How the conversation has changed around it in the context of, you know, female empowerment. We, like I said, we don't talk about anti aging in the same way anymore now. Now it's longevity. And I think, you know, one of the articles that we ran with the imagery of the woman who's now. She's 150 years old, but she looks fabulous. I think that, you know, there is some space to reclaim aging, but in a way that feels more in your control. But I don't know. I think just the grip that youth has on the beauty industry is we're never gonna evolve past it.
- [42:16]
Nicole Phelps
I was gonna say it's a hard one to shake.
- [42:18]
Natisha Scott
It's so gendered though too. I mean, I was watching the Last of Us, season two, the premiere, and Catherine O'Har beautifully wrinkled. And I just. There's just so few women in Hollywood who have taken that route, have chosen that. So I'm glad you mentioned the AI images because we should talk about those. This was a real new beginning, I would say, for Vogue business. We collaborated with our partners at Conde Nast. Natisha, can you talk more about, about the images we used?
- [42:48]
Nicole Phelps
Of course. So I think what we did was we wanted to make sure that if we're talking about treatments that exist 20 years from now, we speak to that accurately. And we can't. We weren't able to do that from a stock image perspective or from a shoot perspective. So AI was something that we thought, okay, we have this fantastic relationship with OpenAI as part of Conde Nas that why don't we lean into that? So we worked with our senior designer, Niall, and what he did was we gathered every insight from the doctors, the surgeons, the futurists, the trend forecasters. And he spent hours, and I'm talking hours over months building all of these faces and images and bodies with ChatGPT. And the AI brought out these beautiful images that, as we mentioned, 150 years old woman looks absolutely fabulous. And we wanted to make sure that we weren't talking about flawless skin. We weren't talking wrinkles are beautiful and texture is beautiful. And whilst we're unpacking innovations of the skin texture and skin quality, we still need these images to resonate, we still need them to feel realistic. So we didn't want to go down a route where we're talking about stem cell therapy that doesn't exist. So we would use a Getty image or a stock image or. It's so extreme in a sci fi arena that consumers will see that on social media and are taken aback. So we thought that bringing everything together in this way, that still tapped into something that was realistic 20 years from now, but also could depict what we're trying to say and what we're reporting on as best as we could. But yes, it was a very, very interesting creative process that I think the images look absolutely beautiful and they created.
- [44:25]
Natisha Scott
A little bit of conversation online, right?
- [44:28]
Nicole Phelps
Yes.
- [44:28]
Natisha Scott
As anything AI will do. Hilary, do you want to address some of the responses?
- [44:34]
Hilary Milnes
Yeah, it was divisive. I think some people were excited to see us using AI in this way. And some people were more disappointed or just asking why, what was the point of this? And we did our best to explain why. And I think Natishi just summed it up. It was, you know, the goal was to look ahead, so creating something that doesn't quite exist. But at the same time, we're not looking at 200 years in the future. So it's not drastically like genetically modified beings that aren't as recognizable. So I think that was the balance of giving off that futuristic feel that is still within reach. So you almost have this, like, it's familiar, but there's, there's something else going on here. But, you know, I think across the articles, a lot of the changes and the treatments are subtle. They're, they're internal and they're under the surface. And so, so yeah, it was. Niall did a lot of work to pull out those nuances, but it was really interesting and I think they looked really nice at the end.
- [45:23]
Natisha Scott
All right, time for final takeaways. Natisha, what's your biggest learning from this project?
- [45:30]
Nicole Phelps
How hyper personalized and tailored the beauty industry, and not just beauty, everything pulled together from wellness and health is going. I think right now that almost feels like we've said so far away. We buy a moisturizer on a, on a shelf and we just hope it works where we're going for a future that I know a moisturizer is going to work for my skin based on its skin profile. So I think that was an incredibly eye opening takeaway for me is how hyper personalized and tailored the direction will be for consumers going forward.
- [46:04]
Natisha Scott
What about you, Hilary?
- [46:06]
Hilary Milnes
A little, a little bit more of a detractor. But I, it made me, like I said, it made me feel like, you know, I think the future, it could be damaging in a lot of ways. And I want to shout out the op ed that we ran from Jessica Defino on, you know, have we reached beauty burnout? I think that the future feels a little bit like, oh, this will come so easily and we'll just go and get our lunchtime treatment. But at the same time, right now, I think people are a little bit overwhelmed with just, you know, how much it's shifting in the direction of invasive treatments. Like I said, it's right now it's subtle, but it kind of feels radical at the same time, just how much you can really do to change and perfect your appearance. And what if you want to opt out from that? What if you want to age and not get Botox? Like, I think I'm hoping that as this all evolves, there will be a growing cohort of people and women specifically, that are pushing back against it. And I think that your natural features could become a bigger flex in the future because of just how much is available to make yourself look like everyone else. So that was kind of my. I'm just, yeah, my big takeaway.
- [47:08]
Natisha Scott
Well, I'm glad that we have two, you know, not opposing views but two different views here. Thank you both so much for joining us.
- [47:14]
Hilary Milnes
Thanks, Nicole.
- [47:15]
Nicole Phelps
Thank you, Nicole. Thank you, Hillary.
- [47:20]
Natisha Scott
Okay, that's it for the Run Through. See you next week.
- [47:32]
Chloe Mel
The Run through is produced by Chelsea Daniel, Alex DePalma and Joanna Solotarov. It's engineering engineered by Jake Loomis and James Yost. It is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Stephanie Karaoke is our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is Conde Nast's head of global audio.
- [47:57]
Arden Fanning Andrews
The other day, I, like, went on a real ebay spree. There's this huge push for, like, 80s opulence and 80s sort of glamour, and we're going to see that returning. And so I was already kind of tapped into that just from my gorgeous ebay watch list. And I found a really beautiful Chloe blazer from the 80s and a really great Miu Miu kilt, these great Dior boots. And I'm combining them all together. Sometimes trend forecasting doesn't require something that's gonna be, like, produced in the future. Sometimes you can, like, tap into the past and tap into the archive as well. That's what makes ebay a fun place to actually discover things because. Because you're not going in with something so specific in mind, but you have an idea of what you're interested in or what you're excited about or, you know, just truly trend forecasting. And so one thing that I would say people should be watching out for is, like, very opulent 80s style.
- [48:56]
Cheminati
From PRX.