The Rundown: Interview with Affirm CEO Max Levchin on Fixing America’s Broken Credit System

Podcast: The Rundown (Public.com)
Host: Zaid Admani
Guest: Max Levchin, CEO of Affirm
Date: February 15, 2026

Episode Overview

This special interview edition of The Rundown features a conversation with Max Levchin, founder and CEO of Affirm, a leader in the Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) space. The discussion centers on why Affirm has resonated with millions of users, its core differences with traditional credit cards, broader trends in American consumer credit, and the future of responsible borrowing. Levchin addresses both the praise and criticism BNPL platforms receive, shares personal anecdotes that inspired Affirm, and gives his take on consumer financial health heading into 2026.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem Affirm is Solving

• Origins in Personal Experience
  • Levchin’s car loan was denied after PayPal's IPO due to a low credit score, rooted in youthful missteps with credit cards (01:15).
  • Many consumers—especially millennials—do not trust banks, associating them with 2008’s financial crisis.
• Founding Principle
  • "Credit cards aren't your friends. They feel good coming in, but then they can really mess you up going out." — Max Levchin (01:35)
  • Affirm was created to build a transparent and honest borrowing experience.

2. Credit Cards vs. Affirm: Core Differences

• What Credit Cards Get Wrong
  • Core design encourages perpetual debt via revolving balances and minimum payments (05:09).
  • Most Americans revolve around $10,000 in debt, trapped by compounding interest and unpredictable costs.
• Affirm’s Alternative
  • No compounding interest, no late fees, all costs disclosed upfront.
  • Payments are fixed and finite: "You're buying a $1,000 TV, we'll tell you you're going to pay us $1,000 back, or over 12 months, after that, you're done." — Max Levchin (06:41)
• On Transparency
  • "Our core value proposition here is transparency. We're entirely transparent in who we are. And yes, you're paying interest...but it is profoundly predictable." — Max Levchin (07:50)

3. Affirm’s Approach to Underwriting and Delinquency

• Affirm’s delinquency rate is 2.7%, lower than industry averages (08:08).
• They prioritize rigorous underwriting over reliance on penalty fees or compounding.
• "The incentives in the industry are messed up, where you're literally allowing people to underwrite you less than perfectly because then they'll make more money...if you are not paying us on time, bad things happen to us." — Max Levchin (08:40)

4. Economic Downturns and Affirm’s Resilience

• Affirm survived economic “mini-recessions,” COVID, and 2022’s rate hikes (10:36).
• Every loan is underwritten in real time; most loan durations are ~4.5 months, enabling rapid response to economic swings.
• "Structurally, we're well prepared for any kind of economic bumps and so not worried, but both eyes on the dashboards all the time." — Max Levchin (12:55)

5. Criticism: “Debt with Better Branding”?

• Consumer Protection through Declines:
  • Affirm monitors overall credit and will decline customers who are overextended (13:33).
  • Offers partial loans to promote responsible borrowing.
• Philosophy on Credit:
  • “This country is built on credit...Abusing credit, getting yourself into debt, staying in debt permanently is a bad idea. Using something like Affirm...is probably the best way to borrow, if you will.” — Max Levchin (15:03)

6. Viral “Financing Your Burrito” Critique

• Levchin points out that credit cards have allowed such behavior for decades (16:25).
• Clarifies that Affirm’s average transaction (~$300) reflects considered purchases, not frivolous spending.
• "Burrito gate" is mostly social media sensationalism; data shows most Affirm users don’t finance low-ticket items long term.

7. Affirm Card – Competing with Modern Credit Cards

• The Affirm card is a hybrid: can function as debit or credit, offering flexibility and transparency (18:31).
• Many Americans chase credit card rewards via complex “point maxing”; Levchin believes most Affirm users value simplicity and predictability for larger purchases.
• 40% of Affirm’s transactions last quarter were 0% interest due to promos.

8. Policy Moves: Interest Rate Caps

• Discussion of Trump’s proposed 10% APR cap on credit cards (20:24).
• Levchin believes compounding interest and indefinite revolving are bigger issues than rate caps.
• “The antidote to Americans abusing credit cards or being abused by credit cards...is just telling people, here’s exactly how long you need to take to pay this back.” (22:22)

9. The State of the U.S. Consumer & Economy

• Holidays as a “referendum on affordability”; despite economic concerns, shoppers were optimistic and spending remained strong (24:07).
• "The demise of American consumer has been greatly exaggerated...We posted some amazing numbers and we don't appear to be in a downfall or spiral." — Max Levchin (25:36)
• Resilient spending powered by strong employment and decent wages.

10. Personal Story: PayPal to Pay Now

• Levchin recounts the anecdote of being rejected for a car loan—even after PayPal’s IPO—due to poor credit history (27:03).
• Eventually forced to pay cash after the dealer recognized him but insisted on good credit or cash.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why Affirm exists:
  "I thought, well, okay...what if we started a company that just built a more honest, more transparent mousetrap when it comes to consumer borrowing?" — Max Levchin (01:35)

• On credit cards:
  “It is not designed to guide you as a customer towards good financial outcomes. It's actually designed to guide you to not so good financial outcomes.” — Max Levchin (05:09)

• On industry incentives:
  “Most lenders actually don’t care to be very good at it...because then they’ll make more money.” — Max Levchin (08:40)

• On “financing a burrito”:
  "I thought the burrito game was funny and entirely disingenuous and may have been planted by the credit card industry zealots for all I know." — Max Levchin (16:25)

• On point-chasing:
  "Credit maxing...is more entertainment and a lot of work. Nothing wrong with a free trip to Italy. I would love one myself. But...it's more fun to watch than to actually execute these like Ponzi scheme of moving from card to card." — Max Levchin (18:31)

• On holiday spending:
  "The holiday season was a referendum on affordability...We posted some amazing numbers and we don't appear to be in a downfall or spiral, which is some of the critics will have you believe." — Max Levchin (25:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:54] — Introduction, Affirm’s purpose and Levchin’s personal experience
• [05:09] — Credit card pitfalls vs. Affirm’s transparent approach
• [08:08] — Underwriting: delinquency, incentives, and transparency
• [10:36] — Can Affirm survive a major recession?
• [12:58] — Buy Now, Pay Later criticism: Is it just “debt lite”?
• [16:25] — Addressing the “financing your burrito” meme
• [18:31] — Competing with reward credit cards: Affirm Card’s strategy
• [20:24] — On potential credit card interest rate caps
• [24:07] — Holiday season as gauge of consumer financial health
• [27:03] — Levchin’s car-buying anecdote highlighting credit’s pitfalls

Tone and Takeaways

Levchin is candid, philosophical, and occasionally playful—balancing critique of existing systems with pride in Affirm’s business model. The conversation offers not just a product pitch, but a broader exploration of what responsible credit looks like and the incentives shaping the American financial system.

Final Thoughts

• Affirm strives to offer transparency and predictability as an alternative to the debt traps of traditional credit cards.
• The U.S. consumer remains resilient, and the credit industry is in flux as regulatory, technological, and behavioral shifts continue.
• Levchin invites skepticism, accepts that credit must exist, and urges the market to avoid the “infinite debt treadmill.”

For listeners wanting insight into modern consumer credit, fintech disruption, and the psychology behind spending, this episode is a must-listen.