Podcast Summary: The Rundown — How to Build Wealth When the Economy Feels Rigged

Guest: Nick Maggiulli (Author, Blogger, Data Scientist, COO at Ritholtz Management)
Host: Zaid Admani
Date: September 7, 2025
Podcast: The Rundown by Public.com

Episode Overview

This episode features a candid conversation with Nick Maggiulli, the finance blogger behind "Of Dollars and Data," and author of Just Keep Buying and the newly released The Wealth Ladder. Host Zaid Admani digs into Nick's latest bearish outlook on the U.S. stock market, his approach to portfolio management during uncertain times, the unique wealth-building challenges facing young people today, and practical advice for financial success in a world that often seems stacked against the average investor.

Key Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. Nick’s Bearish Outlook on U.S. Stocks

(Starts ~01:00)

• For only the second time since 2017, Nick is bearish on U.S. stocks, citing high valuations across most metrics, specifically mentioning the price-to-sales ratio breaching 3.
• He draws parallels with the market climate in late 2021 but admits “history doesn’t repeat, but it rhymes.”
• Nick has executed a “very minor form of market timing,” slightly rebalancing away from risk assets in his retirement accounts (from 100% to about 80% in risk assets):

  “When all the metrics are at the 99th percentile, like you have to say, okay, either the world’s completely changed…or we’re probably a little bit inflated.” (Nick, 01:33)

• He emphasizes he is still buying U.S. stocks, just more cautiously.

2. When to Keep Money Out of Stocks

(Starts ~02:56)

• Nick shares his personal rule: do not put money in stocks if you plan to use it within five years—he’s currently saving for a home and isn’t investing those savings in equities.
• In a personal-moment-turned-financial-advice, they debate whether to put engagement ring money in stocks:

  “This is not really a financial question. This is more of a personal question.” (Nick, 04:16)

  • Nick suggests hedging: keep half in cash and let the rest ride in stocks if one is comfortable with that risk.
  • Ultimately: do what your partner would want.

3. Writing Two Books & Using Existing Material

(Starts ~05:50)

• Nick describes the book writing process, noting that extensive blogging provided much of the foundation for Just Keep Buying and The Wealth Ladder.
• The Wealth Ladder concept dates back to a December 2019 post and was always intended for deeper exploration.

4. On Building Wealth: Income vs. Savings

(Starts ~07:03)

• The host, Zaid, references Nick’s view that building wealth is more about increasing income than simply cutting expenses—a point that contrasts with the advice of many immigrant parents.

  “The way you build wealth over time isn’t going to come from savings…The way you really do it is by increasing your income.” (Zaid, 07:03)

• Nick acknowledges that it’s harder for young people today (due to AI, high housing costs, etc.), but stresses the importance of trying:

  “Every generation gets a different deck of cards…you have to do something with what you have.” (Nick, 08:31)

• He shares his own story: it took three years of writing before his side blog made any money, and nine years before it surpassed his day job earnings.

5. Navigating Financial Realities as a Young Adult

(Starts ~11:01)

• Both Nick and Zaid reminisce about the impatience of their youth and the challenges younger generations face with social media, instant gratification, and constant exposure to others’ apparent success.

  “It’s much harder for [young people] because…they’re just shown so much stuff on their feeds…Now these people are seeing it 24/7.” (Zaid, 11:01)

• On financial education for younger generations: Nick says some is better than none, but experience and income management matter most.

6. The Wealth Ladder Framework

(Starts ~14:07)

• Nick explains the six levels of net worth, from under $10,000 to over $100 million, and their respective “spending freedoms”:
  • Level 1: <$10,000
  • Level 2: $10,000–$100,000 (“grocery freedom”)
  • Level 3: $100,000–$1 million (“restaurant freedom”)
  • Level 4: $1 million–$10 million (“travel freedom”)
  • Level 5: $10 million–$100 million
  • Level 6: $100 million+
• Introduces the “0.01% rule”:

  “Take your net worth, multiply by 0.01%, and we’ll just assume that’s how much your wealth throws off every day.” (Nick, 14:07)

• This rule allows lifestyle creep as wealth grows—a deliberate alternative to frugality-only advice.

7. Behavioral Finance: Learning to Spend

(Starts ~18:49)

• Many who build wealth (especially first-generation or immigrant families) struggle to adjust their spending habits, often unable to enjoy their success.
• Nick recommends using rules of thumb (like the 4% or 0.01% rules) to give people the “permission” they sometimes need to spend rationally.

8. Generational Memory and Risk Tolerance

(Starts ~19:49)

• People who experienced tough times (dot-com crash, 2008) often remain financially anxious even after recovering.
• Newer generations haven’t faced a deep recession in adulthood, influencing their outlook and possibly risk tolerance.

9. Will Recessions Ever Happen Again? Rolling Recessions?

(Starts ~21:20)

• Zaid asks if “rolling recessions” (sector-specific slowdowns) are the new normal, rather than broad-based downturns.
• Nick remains agnostic but urges diversification:

  “The future’s uncertain and so we have to kind of just do what we can with the information we have.” (Nick, 20:43)

10. Financial Literacy for Kids

(Starts ~22:23)

• Zaid asks if Nick will ever write a kids’ finance book; Nick, newly married, says maybe after he has kids.
• Both discuss how financial decision-making happens earlier now, with young people having easier (and riskier) access to investing apps:

  “Now these kids can start doing it at the age of 16 with custodial accounts, you know.” (Zaid, 23:54)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On market timing and humility:

  “I’m not like a, oh, sell your US stocks. I don’t think that is a…market timing. And so this is a very, very minor form of market timing. But I’m still buying US stocks just at a slower rate than I was before.” (Nick, 01:33)

• On risk and personal finance for big purchases:

  “If you have a goal or a purchase… Anything within the next five years, like stocks can do anything over a five year period.” (Nick, 02:56)

• On self-discipline with social media pressures:

  “It’s much harder for [young people] because…they’re just like shown so much stuff on their feeds…Now these people are seeing it 24/7.” (Zaid, 11:01)

• On adapting to your financial reality:

  “You have to try something…Every generation gets a different deck of cards…I graduated in 2012. That was not the best time…But you have to do something with what you have.” (Nick, 08:31)

• On lifestyle creep and the wealth ladder:

  “As you build wealth, it allows a little bit of lifestyle creep…you can spend more, but only after you’ve built wealth. And so that’s what this wealth ladder framework does.” (Nick, 14:07)

• On behavioral hurdles for high savers:

  “A lot of it’s behavioral and like, it’s a psychological thing. But these types of rules can help…” (Nick, 18:49)

Resource Links & Further Reading

• Nick’s Blog: Of Dollars and Data
• Twitter: @dollarsanddata
• Books:
  • Just Keep Buying
  • The Wealth Ladder
• Calculators & Tools: Available on Nick’s blog

Timestamps to Key Segments

• 01:00: Nick’s bearish stance explained
• 02:56: How Nick’s portfolio shift works & saving for near-term goals
• 05:50: Why write a second book?
• 07:03: Building wealth: the income vs. savings debate
• 08:31: Advice for young people in a tough economy
• 14:07: The Wealth Ladder explained (six levels, daily spending rule)
• 18:49: Letting yourself spend after achieving wealth
• 21:20: “Will we ever have another recession?” — economic cycles discussed
• 22:23: Kids’ financial literacy and the future of early investing

Tone & Takeaways

The episode blends practical finance, optimism, and realism. Nick’s data-driven approach is counterbalanced with humility and personal anecdotes, while Zaid channels the voice of a new generation striving for wealth in uncertain times. The discussion is accessible, relatable, and peppered with actionable rules-of-thumb, making this episode valuable for listeners at any stage in their financial journey.