The Rundown: "Is Spotify in Trouble? New CEOs Face Double Threat from YouTube and Netflix"
Date: January 18, 2026
Host: Zaid Admani
Guest: Ashley Carman (Bloomberg reporter specializing in the podcast and music industry)
Episode Overview
This episode features an in-depth conversation with Ashley Carman about the current turbulence in the podcasting and streaming industries, focusing on Spotify's 30% stock drop, its new co-CEO leadership, and the rising competition from YouTube and Netflix. The discussion also explores the evolving definition of podcasts, shifting consumer behaviors, the impact of AI, and the question of whether we've reached "peak podcasts."
Key Discussion Points
1. The Changing Definition of a Podcast
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Existential Crisis in Podcasting
- The definition of 'podcast' has become increasingly unclear as more content is produced in video format and as platforms like YouTube and Netflix enter the space.
- Ashley Carman [01:00]: "The podcast industry is really going through kind of an existential crisis where no one can define what a podcast is anymore."
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Platform Exclusivity and Identity
- Shows on Netflix that call themselves 'podcasts' might not fit traditional definitions (typically: audio, available via RSS feed).
- Ashley Carman [01:47]: "If a show has an existence on Apple Podcasts because it's audio only ... then I will call it a podcast."
2. The Rise of Video Podcasts
- Post-COVID, podcasts have shifted from audio-only to highly produced video content.
- YouTube has become the leading platform for podcast consumption in the U.S.
- Ashley Carman [02:52]: "YouTube has become a huge giant in the space. It has become the most popular place for people to consume podcasts."
3. Spotify’s Podcast Gamble and Mixed Results
- Enormous investment in exclusive content (e.g., Joe Rogan, Call Her Daddy)—with mixed ROI.
- Shift away from exclusivity: Creators now prefer flexibility and distribution across platforms (YouTube, audio apps, Netflix).
- Ashley Carman [03:37]: "They spent over a billion dollars on podcasting ... you could argue what did they really get for that investment, especially given that YouTube is the number one podcasting platform in the US right now."
- Some success: Podcast wins a Golden Globe, positive creator sentiment about payouts.
4. Spotify’s Leadership Transition
- Founder Daniel Ek steps down as CEO at the start of 2026, transitioning to executive chairman. Co-presidents Alex and Gustav become co-CEOs.
- Investor response: Stock drops 30% since announcement.
- Ashley Carman [05:39]: "I got the sense that they really were being primed to ... take over the company eventually."
- Ashley Carman [05:39]: "Now that said, the stock has been down to your point, I'm starting to get the sense that maybe just a little bit of investors, you know, skepticism ..."
5. The Pricing Power Challenge
- Spotify raises U.S. subscription prices to $13 per month; investors want to see larger price hikes.
- Competition from YouTube Premium (ad-free YouTube + YouTube Music), offering compelling value.
- Ashley Carman [07:32]: "YouTube Premium gives you ad free videos on YouTube plus YouTube Music."
- The power of 'lock-in' features (e.g., Spotify Wrapped) vs. cost-conscious consumers.
6. Copying the Netflix Playbook?
- Spotify’s adoption of a co-CEO structure possibly modeled after Netflix's successful leadership transition.
- Shared board member (Ted Sarandos): Cultural and operational overlaps.
- Ashley Carman [08:58]: "It would make sense to me that when they were going through this transition, they would probably ask for their advice from the Netflix crew."
7. The Juggernaut: YouTube’s Living Room Advantage
- YouTube is the U.S.'s #1 podcast destination.
- Challenge for Spotify: Lacks "living room" presence, whereas YouTube is watched on TVs as background entertainment.
- Zaid Admani [10:46]: "People watch these podcasts now like on their living room TVs ... Spotify doesn't have that relationship with the audience."
8. Spotify’s Response: Video and Device Expansions
- Revamped Apple TV app, strategy to attract video podcasters.
- Unique creator compensation model: Out of a pool based on consumption, not ad revenue.
- Growing catalog of music videos and efforts to compete with YouTube’s vast library.
- Ashley Carman [11:23]: "They've also made some deals for music videos on the service. So they're really trying to build up that video library and compete with YouTube."
9. Netflix: Testing the Podcast Waters
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Netflix is adding video podcasts after a deal with The Ringer; integration appears early and low-budget.
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User experience is mixed: Zoom-style podcasts on prestige streaming platforms can feel incongruent.
- Ashley Carman [13:41]: "When I put it on, I was a little taken aback by a zoom setup on Netflix ... when you're watching on your big screen at home and there's something about that Netflix prestige, you sort of expect even just like an actor studio vibe."
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Possible future for Netflix: After exclusive deals, podcasts may return to YouTube to rebuild their audience.
10. Have We Reached Peak Podcasts?
- The market is oversaturated; super-users are turning to AI/automated summaries as they struggle to keep up.
- Audience behavior shifting to clips and highlights over long-form episodes.
- Ashley Carman [17:35]: "There is kind of this subsect of podcast super users ... they're finding that they can only have so many shows in their rotation ... now people aren't even listening, they're using transcription tools and AI to parse podcast episodes and get the summaries spat back."
11. The Trend Toward Shorter Content
- Podcasts like The Rundown and The Daily succeed with shorter episode formats.
- Even long-form creators (e.g., Andrew Huberman) break content into smaller "essentials."
- Ashley Carman [19:23]: "Andrew Huberman is a good example ... his podcast can run hours and he does have a new series. It's called the essentials. There's still 45 minute episodes, which is kind of funny ..."
12. The Ad Revenue and Mainstream Status Debate
- Ad dollars are shifting from cable to podcasts, but could be diluted across related digital formats.
- Ashley Carman [20:46]: "My concern ... is ... as podcasting becomes more like the creator economy and digital video, I worry that the budgets ... start to instead go into creator or video content."
- Podcasting still perceived as somewhat "nerdy" or niche, despite mainstream usage.
13. The Role of AI: Threats and Opportunities
- AI may revolutionize creation (e.g., making ads, summarizing content) and even the production of entire synthetic podcasts.
- Hosts remain skeptical about pure AI "personalities" replacing real podcasters.
- Ashley Carman [22:16]: "AI will be used in ads for sure ... for creators who are making podcasts, AI will probably be additive to their workflow."
Memorable Quotes & Moments
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On existential crisis in podcasting definitions:
- Ashley Carman [01:00]: "Literally right now, as we speak, the podcast industry is really going through kind of an existential crisis where no one can define what a podcast is anymore."
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On Spotify’s $1 Billion Podcast Bet:
- Ashley Carman [03:37]: "You could argue, what did they really get for that investment, especially given that YouTube is the number one podcasting platform in the US right now."
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On CEO Transition:
- Zaid Admani [05:04]: "The stock has dropped 30% since Daniel Ek announced that he was stepping down... so I feel like Spotify was riding high and then now they're kind of hit a speed bump."
- Ashley Carman [10:02]: "Daniel is still executive chairman ... If they were to take some really big swings, they would need Daniel's buy in. But if Daniel's bought in, then probably the board would be too."
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On Netflix Podcasts Feeling "Off":
- Ashley Carman [13:41]: "When I put it on, I was a little taken aback by a Zoom setup on Netflix... there's something about that Netflix prestige, you sort of expect even just like an actor studio vibe."
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On "Peak Podcast" and AI Transformation:
- Ashley Carman [17:35]: "There is kind of this subsect of podcast super users ... they're finding that they can only have so many shows ... now people aren't even listening, they're using transcription tools and AI to parse podcast episodes and get the summaries spat back out at them really quickly."
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On Podcasting's Continuing Identity Crisis:
- Ashley Carman [23:46]: "Podcasting is mainstream. So many people listen to podcasts and love them, but it does still have this historic baggage of being kind of nerdy..."
Timestamps for Major Segments
- 00:39 – Defining "podcast" in 2026
- 02:08 – Rise of video and YouTube dominance
- 03:08 – Spotify's billion-dollar podcast investments and changing exclusivity strategy
- 05:01 – Daniel Ek steps down, new co-CEOs
- 06:53 – Spotify’s pricing power and subscription model vs. YouTube Premium
- 08:28 – Spotify co-CEO model: Learning from Netflix
- 10:41 – YouTube as the #1 podcast destination; living room usage
- 11:23 – Spotify’s push into video and device integration
- 12:27 – Netflix's new podcast push and first impressions
- 15:47 – The risk of exclusive podcast deals and rebuilding audiences
- 16:43 – "Peak podcasts," attention spans, and the rise of clips and summaries
- 19:23 – Trend toward shorter episodes and bite-size content
- 20:46 – Ad revenue: Will podcasting catch a wave as TV fades?
- 21:31 – AI’s emerging role in podcasting
- 23:07 – Will AI-generated podcasts ever catch on?
- 23:46 – Podcasting’s mainstream potential and social perception
Conclusion
This episode delivers a brisk but comprehensive look at the challenges and flux gripping Spotify and the podcast industry. The conversation balances optimism for innovation and growth with skepticism toward over-saturation, the effects of leadership change, and the growing dominance of video-centric platforms.
Ashley Carman's insights reinforce the idea that podcasting continues to grapple with a shifting identity while facing existential and practical threats from YouTube, Netflix, and emerging technologies like AI. Most notably, both host and guest emphasize that amidst the competition and evolving formats, the core value of podcasting—authentic communication and connection—still holds strong, even as definitions and delivery methods blur.