Podcast Summary: The Russell Brunson Show

Episode 91: Conversation Domination: John Parkes Reveals the Strategies Behind Our $150M in Ad Spend (Nov 26, 2025)

Overview

In this especially tactical episode, Russell Brunson shares the stage with John Parkes, head of ClickFunnels advertising, to dissect the science and art behind running over $150M in profitable ad spend. The conversation focuses on dominating the online conversation about a brand or offer using paid ads, unpacking the frameworks, creative strategies, and campaign structures behind their results. John shares both high-level principles and actionable details, making this a goldmine for anyone focused on paid traffic and funnel growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Concept of "Conversation Domination" ([01:00])

• Russell introduces the idea of "Conversation Domination"—ensuring that wherever your audience is searching, you and your offers show up everywhere.
• Inspiration from Howie Schwartz’s course and buying the "conversation domination" domain.

Quote:
“I want somebody... [who] goes to Instagram or Facebook, wherever, like, I show up everywhere that we're at. That's conversation domination.”
—Russell Brunson [01:23]

2. The Science & Art of Profitable Ads ([02:40])

John Parkes distinguishes advertising as both science (campaign architecture, targeting) and art (creative, storytelling).

• Science: Campaign structure, optimizing audiences, strategic exclusions.
• Art: Messaging, creative hooks, relatability.

“There's both a science side and an art side, and both are important… Sometimes I see beautiful art but floundering on the science.”
—John Parkes [02:45]

3. The DWELL Framework for Audience Building ([06:30])

D.W.E.L.L. – Where Your Audiences 'Dwell'

• D: Data Audiences
  Uploading existing customer info (name, email, phone) into platforms (Meta), building audiences from subscribers, buyers, etc.
• W: Website Audiences
  Using pixel data to build audiences of visitors, especially those with buyer intent (e.g., repeated page visits, long time on page, recent buyers).
• E: Engagement Audiences
  People interacting with social posts: likes, comments, shares, saves, video watches.
• L: Lookalike Audiences
  Algorithmically generated lists similar to your best buyers (seeded from strong, high-value customer lists, “hyper buyers”).
• L: Layered/Saved Audiences
  Stacking multiple interest, behavior, and demographic filters ("layering") to laser-target prospects.

Memorable Moment:
“Just because you can’t upload them into ClickFunnels and send a follow up email doesn’t mean it’s not a list... All of that kind of data can be uploaded and make an audience out of it.”
—John Parkes [08:01]

Practical tip: Exclude buyers from front-end campaigns to save money and increase efficiency.
“As much as possible, we try to exclude you guys from our front end offers. It's imperfect...but do both [date upload and pixel] to cover the bases.”
—John Parkes [12:14]

4. Refining and Seeding Audiences: “Gold In, Gold Out” ([16:00])

• Be selective about source lists for lookalike audiences: depth of engagement > surface-level signals (“thumbs-up” ≠ buyer!).
• Seed with “hyper buyers” (repeat subscribers, multi-product buyers).
• Avoid targeting “maybe” audiences to prevent brand dilution and wasted spend.
• Be selective with countries/regions—target audiences likely to have intent and capacity to purchase.

Quote:
“Don’t be greedy...That’s the fastest way to ruin your brand and waste your budget. If you spend your money there, you get results. If you spend your money over here, you don’t get results.”
—John Parkes [18:55]

5. Campaign Structuring and Audience Pacing ([25:00])

• Question from listener: Can you transplant audiences from one geography to another (e.g., Dominican Republic to Florida)?
• Answer: Not directly—data doesn’t transfer cleanly across countries. Use audience research tools (even ChatGPT) to analyze and profile buyers for new markets.
• For high ticket ($497+) and new offers, start “picky” with tight audience targeting; only go broad after the algorithm learns from a few hundred actual sales.

Quote:
“I wouldn’t start broad unless you’ve got lots of change in your pockets...If you don’t do some legwork, the algorithm will figure it out, but it might cost you $30 grand to get there.”
—John Parkes [26:26]

6. When to “Take the Training Wheels Off” ([29:00])

• Start broad only after you’ve generated a few hundred conversions from initial, tightly targeted campaigns.
• Recommended: 200–300 sales before handing the reins to Meta’s AI/broad targeting.

Quote:
“Once you’ve had...two or three hundred sales...you can try broader. Take the training wheels off.”
—John Parkes [29:04]

7. Types of Campaigns: Conversion, Special Ops (Awareness/Reach), and AI Advantage ([32:00])

a. Conversion-Focused (Most Common)

• Optimize for leads/sales—core of most campaigns.

b. Awareness/Reach (“Special Ops” Use)

• For small, pre-qualified lists (e.g., registrants before a webinar, “hyper buyers” at launch).
• Set frequency caps to avoid ad fatigue; maximize show-up rates at minimal cost.
• Under-leveraged, highly effective for dedicated outreach to micro-audiences.
• CPMs are much lower due to the targeted, impression-based bidding.

“Very few media buyers are doing this...It's alpha. That means it’s important and good data.”
—John Parkes [35:20]

c. Advantage+/AI-Powered Campaigns

• Meta’s “Advantage Plus” leverages accumulated pixel and purchase data for broader targeting.
• Best as supplementary (“frosting on top”) until you have deep, rich data.

8. The “Art” of Ads: Messages and Hooks that Work ([43:00])

• Artistry is about relatable, native-feeling creative, not production quality.
• Example 1: Two vertical video ads—the same hook (“I don’t want to be dramatic about this, but…”)—delivered authentically in everyday settings.
• Contextual or visual hooks stop the scroll (props, outdoor settings, visual contrast).

Quotes & Examples:

“If you find a hook that works, lean into that and make 10 more. The hook being the first chunk of the ad.”
—John Parkes [43:24]

“The lighting was totally average...nothing fancy about the audio. ...It was just clear and quick and to the point. And mobile friendly.”
—John Parkes [45:26]

Example Video (45:26):

Kathryn Jones delivers a direct-to-camera rant in a university parking lot, debunking the value of higher ed versus learning funnel-building.

Example Video (46:42):

McCall Jones paces a parking lot, leveraging the same hook for her offer on high-priced coaching program positioning.

• Takeaway: Being outside, using visual depth, and simply “showing up” as a normal person makes ads more native and effective.
• Jump cuts and casual delivery are acceptable—clarity and moving message matter more than polish.

Scroll-Stopping Static Ad Example (47:56):

A “nothing special” photo of a driveway, paired with a vulnerable, story-driven post that feels like a regular user—not a brand ad.

“You stop scrolling because you’re wondering, why did they take a picture of the driveway?”
—John Parkes [47:56]

“It’s a really, really well-crafted, recommending normal guy social post. So native to the platform.”
—John Parkes [49:40]

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “I want somebody...I show up everywhere...That's conversation domination.”
  —Russell Brunson [01:23]

• “Don’t go for the absolute possible, cheapest lead or sale you can find. Instead, figure out that number, that whole range is acceptable.”
  —John Parkes [03:47]

• “There's both a science side and an art side, and both are important.”
  —John Parkes [02:45]

• “Don’t be greedy...That’s the fastest way to ruin your brand and to waste your budget.”
  —John Parkes [18:55]

• “I wouldn’t start broad unless you’ve got lots of change in your pockets.”
  —John Parkes [26:26]

• “Take the 300 million people in the United States and whittle it down to a few million...and that’s your picky audience.”
  —John Parkes [27:49]

• “Once you’ve had...two or three hundred sales...you can try broader. Take the training wheels off.”
  —John Parkes [29:04]

• “Very few media buyers are doing this. ... It's alpha. That means that it's important and good data.”
  —John Parkes [35:20]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:00] – Russell explains “Conversation Domination”
• [02:40] – John Parkes introduces himself, science/art of ads
• [06:30] – The DWELL framework for audiences
• [12:14] – Website and purchase audience exclusions
• [16:00] – Gold in, gold out: seeding lookalike audiences
• [18:55] – On brand targeting; don’t be greedy with audiences
• [25:00] – Audience transplant between geographies
• [26:26] – Broad vs. specific targeting for new offers
• [29:00] – When to scale up/broaden targeting
• [32:00] – Campaign types: Conversion, Awareness/Reach, AI/Advantage+
• [43:00] – The “art” of ads: hooks, casual delivery, real examples
• [45:26] – Ad video example: Kathryn Jones
• [46:42] – Ad video example: McCall Jones
• [47:56] – Static ad example: the driveway scroll-stopper
• [49:40] – Takeaways on ad native-ness and effectiveness

Key Takeaways

• Dominate the conversation by strategically appearing everywhere your market looks.
• Use the DWELL framework to build robust, layered audiences.
• Be selective: Favor quality of data and intent over broad numbers, especially at higher ticket prices.
• Use conversion campaigns for scaling, but special ops awareness/reach for small, key segments—a powerful, underused lever.
• Most successful ads lean into native behaviors, approachable visuals, and authentic, story-driven copy—not over-produced creative.
• Scale targeting only after 200–300 sales; until then, manual targeting outperforms AI.
• Don’t ignore the basics of campaign structure: retargeting, buyer exclusions, and saved audiences.
• Keep messaging clear, relevant and dynamic—test multiple hooks, and double down when you find a winner.

In Russell’s words:
“I hope this gets the wheels in your head spinning. Gives you some ideas and insights for how you guys can get more traffic into your funnels.”
[00:48]

End of summary.