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The Russell Brunson Show
Family, Faith, and Business: A Deep Dive of “Atlas Shrugged” with Josh Forti (4 of 5)
00:45:22
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- [00:01]
Russell Brunson
This episode is brought to you by Merrill. Join one of the most iconic names in wealth management, Merrill. You'll be part of a dynamic team of advisors and specialists working hard every day to grow their clients wealth. And with the support of best in class research, advanced digital tools and the resources of a global institution, it's truly an opportunity you can be bullish about. Learn more@careers bankofamerica.com Copyright 2024 bank of America Corporation. Want to shop Walmart Black Friday deals first Walmart plus members get early access to our hottest deals. Join now and get 50 off a one year annual membership. Shop Black Friday deals first with Walmart plus see terms@walmartplus.com what's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. Today we're jumping into part four of our Atlas Shrug series. As you know, over the last couple weeks I've been giving you guys access to parts of a five or six hour long interview I did with Josh Fordy back in 2020 after I first read the book Atlas Shrugged. So we're jumping right now into part number four. If you missed any of the prior ones, make sure you go back in the podcast and get episode 1, 2, 3. So that way you got some context what's happening right now. And with that said, I hope you guys enjoy this part of the conversation. As a pride mover, as someone who's trying to change the world, this conversation should resonate with you. Thanks so much. We'll jump right into the episode right now. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson and welcome to the Marketing Secrets podcast.
- [01:38]
Josh Fordy
So how did your parents, what did your parents do right for you? Like, what are the things? Because like one of the things that I try to say, try to say it a lot, but I don't even say it enough. Like my parents have played a absolutely tremendous, like I owe so much of who I am today, like to my parents indirectly in a lot of ways. Like my parents didn't teach me about money or things like that. That's not what, that wasn't their gift. But the prince of hard work and family values biting your tongue. Even though it doesn't seem like I bite my tongue, oh my gosh, every day it could be way worse and some people would love that. But de escalating situations and having those I owe so much of who I am to those. And yeah, they messed up in a lot of ways. And like. Like you said, like. So what were some of the ways, like what were some of the things that your parents did right? Like what are the things that you remember for your parents?
- [02:31]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, oh, my parents. I was very blessed, my parents for sure. You know, my dad. I don't think my dad was super engaged when we were younger because. And just. Cause he was, you know, he was in the phase we're trying to figure things out and make money and like it was different back in.
- [02:48]
Josh Fordy
Is he an entrepreneur?
- [02:49]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, but he also had a job, but he did side business. So he was always trying to figure things out. And I saw him doing these things. I saw like the job he didn't love and I saw like him doing stuff he did love. And I watched him work really hard. And then when I started wrestling, I saw my dad like. Like that became the thing that meet him connected with which like meant the world to me and it was so important to him. And what's cool is that my dad showed up at every wrestling practice. He came to every single match with me that he basically he built up his. He worked. His day job was State Farm Insurance. He built up his book of business where by the time I was wrestling, he was able to take off as much as he wanted and it ran itself. He was making money and had residual income. I remember like my dad was the only one. Like as soon as wrestle practice got done, my dad would walk in and we do meet him do a practice afterwards. Like never missed a match, Never missed. Like he was always there. And I remember just thinking, like, I want to make sure I have a business or something so that I can either. Like my dad was for me, that was so important to me. And I said he wasn't super around when we were younger. I think he struggled with us as younger kids, which I understand. But that phase of my life, like he was there and he was my best friend and it was just. It was awesome. I love that. And I've been trying to have my kids now and especially times where maybe I wasn't as good of a dad. I was too busy. I'm trying to like down other port spots, try to connect more. That was them. That was my dad for sure. And then my mom. My mom is. For me, she was just like. I think. I wouldn't say I'm a people pleaser, but I'm very much like an achiever. Right. Like, I think when I Started wrestling. And I saw my dad got closer to me and then, like, I would win. I saw him get excited, like. Like, I wanted to win because I wanted to impress my dad. To this day, I think I still have that where, like, part of why I'm in this business, I'm doing stuff is I love when my dad sees it and just, like, you know, like, there's something like, I love, like, pressing into this day. Like, that's just like, I love that when with my mom, it was like she loved me even when I didn't win. Like, that was something that was so, like, foreign to me. I remember, like, I'd be cutting weight for wrestling. I'd eaten three days. I'd be so tired, so miserable. And she's like, she'd come down and sneak in my room, like, like, bringing me from my mom. I can't eat. I'm not gonna make weight. She's like, why you just quit that? Like, you don't need to do this. Who you think? And she's trying to get, like. And she's like the opposite of my dad. And she'd love me no matter what. And I didn't care that I was trying to win or succeed or didn't. Couldn't care less. Like, she just wanted me to be, you know, she loved me, like, just because I was me. And like, that was weird and. But so cool as well. And so I think both those principles, like, it's something I've tried to weave in. You know, I got two different sides and try to weave that into my kids. And again, so far from perfect. But I think those are two things that meant the world to me. That super grateful for them having, like, doing those things for me, because I still remember those things now.
- [05:18]
Josh Fordy
So there is. Which, by the way, that's awesome. There's a lot of people in this world that are growing up without dad, without a mom. And like, it's interesting because, like, I think a lot of my social media posts, like, I kind of come across sometimes, like, that heartless a hole. Like, you know what I mean? Like, Josh, like, you know what I mean? Like, you talk about, like, temperature, responsibility for your life. Everybody can do anything. It's like, if you're broke is your fault. Like, that's one of my favorite things. Like, if you're broke, if you're broken, America, it's your fault, right? Like, it's like, Josh, like, you don't understand. Like, you grew up and your parents are, like, still married. Like, you, like, not only do you have parents, like, they're still together and they still, like, actually love each other. It's not even like. It's like you're like a percentage of the percentage of the percentage in a lot of ways. So, like, what. I don't even know what question I'm asking, but, like, what would you. Like, where could somebody find that? And, like, how can. What can we do as a society or just as entrepreneurs, as, like, as producers to, like, help those people? Because I feel like that's a really big need.
- [06:18]
Russell Brunson
Sure.
- [06:19]
Josh Fordy
And, like, it's one of those things where I'm like, one of my big struggles with this is I always want to point back to the church. I had a really awakening come to Jesus moment back when I posted this is probably a month ago or so. And I posted on Instagram, actually, and I think you liked it, actually. So I know you saw it. And I said, defund. Yeah, defund the media. Defund fear. Defund career politicians. Fund orphanages, churches and schools. Right. And, like, I posted that on Facebook and I posted on Instagram, and I was shocked at how many people were like, dude, fund the churches. They're just as. Like, they're a bunch of pedophile people there, too. They're, you know, like, so many people had, like, such this negative view of the church. And, like, I grew up in the church. Like, that's. That's what I knew. Like, how I knew how family worked is because, like, I saw that our own family. Then I saw the church family, I saw the community and, like, how the church was involved in the community. And like, the church that I went to, like, after I moved out, like, Greybull, Indiana, like, I. I worked three doors down from it. And like, they were. That's where people went to vote, was in their gym and the fair. Like, that's where people park. Like, the church was like, such. This integral. Integral part. That word, part of the community. Right? And so, like, when I saw all these people that have this negative view of the church, like, that broke my heart because I'm like, that was my solution. There are, like, so many things, like, if you don't have a dad, like, you can go to the church. Like, if you don't have this, like, you know, the church, it's like, what? And if that's your answer, like, that's cool. But, like, how can we, as producers of society and the people that are going out there and, like, making the money, how can we help those that don't have what you and I had?
- [07:48]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, it's interesting because you know what. What Mormons believe is the family is the central. Everything that's God's plan is husband and wife starts a family. That's like. That's a. That's a. An eternal principle. Right. And so you look at, like, the adversary Satan, whatever you want to call him, like, his job, like, if he can destroy the family, like, everything else falls apart. Like, that's. That's the war in right now. Yeah, we think we're in a lot of different wars. The war we are in is. Is Satan is attacking families. That's it.
- [08:16]
Josh Fordy
Okay. Which I want you to finish this. I have to say this, though, guys. And this is not Russell saying this. This is me. This is why I hate the Black Lives Matter organization, not movement. The organization so much, because their whole principle is breaking apart the traditional family values. Anyway, I know that's not your. I'm not speaking for Russell. Just.
- [08:34]
Russell Brunson
But yeah, if you. If you Google family, the proclamation to world, you'll see my beliefs on family, that we have it printed out 8 foot on my wall in my house. Like, that's my belief. Family is central to everything. And so Satan is the way he destroys societies and nations and this world is to destroy the family. And so when you see families are broken, there's single mothers and single fathers, like, it's. It's heartbreaking. It's the saddest thing in the world, and I don't know the right way to solve it. I do know that it's vitally important. Like, I remember first time I met Tony Robbins, started learning from him, like, one of the principles he talked about in relationships is masculine feminine energy. Like, the masculine and feminine is key to, like, a relationship. Like, I could go off, like, four hours just on masculine, feminine. Like, I was, like, the most fascinating topic in the world. But you look at. Like, if you ever see how Tony fixes relationships, like, you look at traditionally, if you go to traditional counseling, they're like, there's a problem, right? Like, what's the symptom of the problem? They try to solve the symptom of the problem. And, like. But, like, counseling takes years because it's a symptom of the problem. And Tony's like, all the issues are all. They're all symptoms of problems. It's a real problem is, like, when there's a masculine and a feminine and doesn't matter. Again, this is true with gay, straight, doesn't matter. But feminine, masculine energy, right? You take a masculine and feminine and that polar opposite that's magnets that magnetize together. Right. That's what attracts, creates attraction, passion and everything. What happens. You have a masculine and feminine. They're attracted together. Right. That's how you start. That's how any relationship starts. Right. And then you look at people get married and it was interesting because what Tony talked about. So you look at typically in a relationship, there's like what they call a seven year age. And why is that? And it talks about. Because the feminine, the way the feminine causes change is. I wish I could somebody want to write a book on this. I just don't. I don't know perfectly enough to explain.
- [10:17]
Josh Fordy
To become a writer, but can say, yeah, my word, I got a lot.
- [10:20]
Russell Brunson
Of books to write. But so this how it works in traditional marriage, right? So masculine, feminine, what happens is one of the ways that feminine cause change is they criticize. Right. Like if I see this with my wife, with friends, with girls, like if they want their friend to change their hair, they don't say like, hey, you should get a haircut. They don't. They'll criticize to try to cause change. Right. So what happens is that a feminine.
- [10:38]
Josh Fordy
Yo, I. Wow, that's so true.
- [10:40]
Russell Brunson
So this is, this is. Yeah, yeah. That's just one example of feminine energy. There's a million.
- [10:47]
Josh Fordy
Right, right, right.
- [10:48]
Russell Brunson
But like so feminine masks and come together. So like this is an example. It's like those are criticizing the man, but a masculine man doesn't care. Like it bounces off them. Like. Okay, okay, right. What happens after seven years of that happening? Eventually instead of, instead of balancing off you, which is the masculine response, you start taking it personally. Oh, as soon as you take it personal, guess what happens? You are shifting physically from your masculine to a feminine. You start shifting. What happens? You shift from masculine to feminine and boom, the attraction breaks and it starts falling apart. And then all the other problems start happening. So the problem isn't solving the fact that you leave the toilet seat up, but that you don't communicate well. That the problem is that the masculine feminine attraction is broken. And he fixed masculine feminine to make men become men and women become women. Attraction comes back. All the other symptoms disappear. It's fascinating. And so that's from a marriage, family like relationship standpoint.
- [11:33]
Josh Fordy
Okay. Can I.
- [11:35]
Russell Brunson
Yes.
- [11:35]
Josh Fordy
I want to protect.
- [11:36]
Russell Brunson
I'm telling this because I want to talk about from the family with kids in a minute. But yes.
- [11:40]
Josh Fordy
Okay. But I want you to now give me another example of that Tony Robbins has said, because what you made it sound like there is that the way the woman does something is the thing that's causing the bond. I know that's not what you meant.
- [11:50]
Russell Brunson
It could be. Yeah, that's.
- [11:51]
Josh Fordy
I just want to make. I want to do that clarification.
- [11:53]
Russell Brunson
The same thing with. With the men who are. The men are responding over and over. Where women now become defensive, they become more masculine. And the other way. Yeah, sorry. That's not the only example. I was just right the one time.
- [12:02]
Josh Fordy
I just want to make sure we clarify that because I know things have been taken out.
- [12:05]
Russell Brunson
I'm gonna be angry. Yeah, I apologize. I'm stupid. Like, I get it. But conceptually, does that make sense? Like, it's. It's the break of the masculine feminine that causes the split, which causes the disarm. If you bring a masculine feminine together, I think that's. That's. That's what causes attraction and causes passion and causes all these things. I look at my life, like, when we were struggling in our marriage, like, it's because I'm showing up feminine. When I show masculine, everything's great. Or my wife comes in masculine, and I'm asking. We butt heads. Like, it's. It's fascinating. And so anyway, I don't want to get deep in this because there's so much.
- [12:38]
Josh Fordy
Right, right, right, right.
- [12:39]
Russell Brunson
But there's no share is because you look at this thing like, now you got a family, right? And the mother and the father split, right? And then there's. There's kids who go with either the mother or father. And now what they have is they've got either very masculine person they're learning from or feminine, but not. They don't see both. And so it shifts them, and then it shifts their relationship. So many problems. And so I think the way we help the most or can help the most is like, her Mosey does this. Alex Hermosy does this. Like, he donates his money to do, you know, charity. He got our. He got our first two hard awards. It's after school kids. So, like, these kids where they go to, like, men who. There's these kids trying to play basketball or lift weights or whatever, who don't have masculine energy in their life. They come and they donate their time and they help the kids masculinity. So they have. They. All of us, we need male and female perspectives. Like, we have to, like, it's designed to have those things together. When you lose one of them, it's a tragedy. So, like, I think the way we can start helping is like, how do we bring programs where they can see masculine energy and see the way to, like to make a positive, not a negative thing. And like, because a lot of times all they know is, you know, masculine energy left. And oftentimes there's a lot of anger between, between the people and they hear talking trash about the spouse and talking trash about these traits which are like, traits that are essential for them to develop. And I don't know, I don't know if that's the right answer or not, but I feel like that's how we can help those things. It's just like, help me understand like the kids who don't have a father or a mother, like they need that energy in their life to understand it, to be able to, I don't know. So what's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. 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- [17:31]
Josh Fordy
Okay, so this is seemingly unrelated to this, but I think that I can tie it back in because it's a question that I think fits in here. So do you. I'm gonna start with a super basic question which I think the answer is obvious. But like we'll go down this road. Do you feel misunderstood as an entrepreneur?
- [17:48]
Russell Brunson
I did early on. I less. Less so now.
- [17:51]
Josh Fordy
Why is that?
- [17:53]
Russell Brunson
When I was got started, entrepreneurship has become more of a cool thing.
- [17:59]
Josh Fordy
That's true.
- [17:59]
Russell Brunson
In the last decade since Shark Tank on stuff. Back when I first got started, it wasn't. Everyone was confused like, why would you do that? It is cooler also. It's like, I think the more you talk, the more you either alienate people or you attract people. And I think a lot of people who I have alienated have been alienated. And I think I've attracted people. I've attracted. So like my bubble of people around me are people who understand this lingo, who relate to it. So it's less hard now than it was initially.
- [18:24]
Josh Fordy
Do you ever feel so like I believe that one of my superpowers, like your superpower, like your art, your format is like marketing and funnels. Funnel specifically. Like that's like what you do and like I feel like you could just sit there for hours, hours and days and forever for the rest of all of time. Right. Like my super power thing that I like to do is this like communication. I love constructing words in a way that people can understand. Right.
- [18:49]
Russell Brunson
Did you?
- [18:49]
Josh Fordy
I'm sure not. But like the Kanye west interview that Joe Rogan just did three days ago.
- [18:53]
Russell Brunson
I've heard about it.
- [18:54]
Josh Fordy
Okay. So like this has been a long awaited episode for like nobody thought it was ever going to happen, right? Because it was like teased and it wasn't. Didn't happen. Finally happens. And so like I see this, I had no idea it was coming. It like drops and I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan. Right. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's amazing. Right? And I sit down and I look online and all these people are like, terrible interview. Not worth your time. Couldn't get past the first 20 minutes, like anything like that. I'm like What? So I go, and the first 20 minutes we're kind of like, whatever I get done with this three hour interview. It's like top three interviews of all time, right? And what's interesting is like, do you know Kanye about like how Kanye communicates like at all? Like, do you know? Okay, so like Kanye, there's so many references I want to use that he won't get. Like. So like, like Kanye like sees the world like fundamentally differently and like how Joe describes it in there and the way that I described it is like, you wouldn't know this, like I said, because psychedelic, it's like a drug or whatever. But like imagine being on like a psychedelic drug, like in a small format, like at all times. Like that's how mind works. Like, it's like sees everything, it's like expanded. And so even Kanye said he's like, the reason I have such a hard time communicating sometimes is because I have to like, I see things in three dimensional and then I have to put them in, in a two dimensional conversation. Right Now I'm not trying to compare myself the way I think to Kanye thinks, but like, that this concept of like him, people think he's beating around the bush, right? When really he's just trying to explain something. Like one of the things I love doing is taking a concept like that and figuring out how to describe it in a way the average person can understand. Because like I, I live in a different world. Like just like you live in a different world than the average person does. Like, I live in a different world and that is by choice. Like, I do not see the world the way that most people do. I intentionally do not want to see the, the world the way that other people do. Like everything that I do, like I will intentionally engineer where like my life is different than the average person because I want to see the world differently, but I want to be able to communicate that in a way that they can understand. And so my question is like, do you think that there's a lot of great ideas stuck inside of producers heads, that if more people understood them and thought like that we could change the world for the better, but because they're stuck in their head and that person doesn't know how to communicate it well, or is not focused on that, that they, that that effect never happens?
- [20:52]
Russell Brunson
Gotcha. Yes.
- [20:53]
Josh Fordy
Yeah.
- [20:53]
Russell Brunson
So I would say, and that's why I think for me, the, this study, this art of like funnels and copywriting and storytelling is so fascinating. Cause that's what it is, right? Like I was I was pitch like when we have an idea in my head, it's like this big granite block, right? It's like this is the idea and to give it to somebody, like this is the idea. You're like, I don't get it. Right, right. And then you start thinking about who is it? Start chiseling away at the stone, right? You start chiseling, chiseling. So eventually you have this like amazing statue, right? Of like this thing that they, people can see and they can understand, they can, they gravitate towards. I feel like it's the same thing with communication, right? Or with any kind of idea you're trying to sell. Like the funnel is one thing. Like right now, like, hey, you should buy my coaching programs. Like why? Like it's too big. Like I need to take them to a path to simplify that. So it's like a step by step process which is like chiseling away. But then inside each step, the process, there's like the words and the stories and things you communicate to simplify it to get more and more fine tuned. Like that's why for me, like when we create a funnel, we launch it. It's like they taking this big granite block and chiseling down to like now something that somebody can come in on this side of it. They go through a process. By the time they're done at the end, they're going to give us money, they're going to get a product and they're going to change. Something's going to change for them. I think that that's what marketing is. It's that process of trying to simplify the message. And I think 100% that's why most ideas don't get out of time. I don't know how many times have you had this kind of comes back talking about, who knows, an hour or two ago too. But four or five people get the same idea but then one person executes on. It's like the person who understands the communication the best is the one typically who gets it out, right? Like how much of your life and my life has been focused on communication. And I don't necessarily like that much that part as much. Like it's not my favorite part, but it's such an essential tool. I remember when I was learning when I got this game and I was trying to sell my very first product, ziprader and I was like, I put it up at a picture of it buy now button and like tried to send traffic and nobody bought. And someone's like, we need A headline. So I'm like, okay, so put a headline. Like, we need. Like, tell us what this does. And so I, like, found some sites that kind of model what they did. And then people started buying, and it was just like, it was like learning that process of how do you communicate? I remember thinking, like, I never want to learn how to write. Like, for me, it was copy, because that's what we all call back then. Like, I don't want to write copy. Like, I don't want to do that. That sounds horrible. And I want to hire someone. But, like, the people I tried to hire was expensive. It was like 10 to $20,000 for a sales letter. I couldn't afford it. So I'm like, I have to learn this artist of how to communicate. And, like, so grateful because, like, that's how everything we built has been is off. Like, the communication of an idea and doing it in a way that gets people to move.
- [23:16]
Josh Fordy
How do you decide what you're going to communicate? Like, you have a lot of ideas in your head and you have a lot of different thoughts on everything. And, like, you choose to share funnels and marketing primarily, and then you have some religion in there, which I would say probably, like, number two, maybe ish of, like, what you communicate. That's like it. Like, how do you decide the battles.
- [23:35]
Russell Brunson
I want to choose? Yeah, yeah, that's a good question, I think. I mean, part of it's like, what's interesting? Like, why did I want to do this interview? Like, I read the book, it was fascinating, like, and I don't know the answers. And I thought this would be a fun way to talk it out loud. Like, this fascinating funnels are fascinating me because, like, I can apply it so many things. You know, when I talk a lot about wrestling, but not the community you bump into.
- [23:56]
Josh Fordy
Oh, yeah, that's true.
- [23:57]
Russell Brunson
I talk about that. Like, so I think. I think it's just the ideas that fascinate me that I feel like, have the most validity and can do the most, you know, Again, as an introverted person, I typically go out and have conversations with people because I'm like, you know as much as I can, but find something like that does cause an effect. Right. That's why I practice telling my story so many times and I'll do a podcast because, like, I know, like, now when I'm on stage in front of 9,000 people to stores and get people to move because I practice my practice. So I think it's putting a lot of things out in the water and then Seeing what things people relate to. And then I can go deeper on the ones that are like, okay, this one had an impact. There's a lot of stuff I remember. Yeah, I remember in first version.com Secrets there were seven or eight chapters more that never got published. I was going to publish.
- [24:41]
Josh Fordy
Do you have copies of those?
- [24:41]
Russell Brunson
It was like, yeah, all my best stuff at the time that I knew and I was going to publish it and it was all in the book. And I remember I heard an interview with Tim Ferriss and Ryan Holiday Holiday at the time. And they're both talking. Yeah. Anyway, talking about their books. Both of them said that when they write a typical book, you know, Tim Ferriss's books are like this fatty. My first draft was like twice as big. He's like, he's like, but make a book go from good to great. It's not like add any more. It's cutting. He's like, I cut 2/3 of my book to give you this one. And then I think it was. Ryan said the same thing. He's like, it's not like he's like saying that my books start at the final. The first draft is twice as big as the final one. Then next section just cut, cut, cut, cut. I remember going back to Dotcom Secrets that night and I was like, okay, based on that, if I like what would I cut and how would that do? And I cut seven chapters out and after it's done I was like so scared. Like this is like I love these things. But I was like those things aren't that important to like get people what they need to actually be successful. Well, some of those things ended up being in dotcom secrets and expert secrets places. But yeah, I wonder that first I.
- [25:39]
Josh Fordy
Was going to say I wonder if she just published the first thing or if she like had a 2700 page book.
- [25:45]
Russell Brunson
Yeah.
- [25:45]
Josh Fordy
And cut something out of it. That's crazy. Okay, back to the question in the car and I want to tie this back to the book. How has growing a multi hundred million dollar like making hundreds of millions of dollars, having a roughly billion dollar company, being the CEO of 400 employees, like how has that changed your perspective of the world?
- [26:07]
Russell Brunson
I think so many I could respond. I think there was a season in my life where I thought that like if I was going to create something, if I was going to do something that like the way I was going to do it by me. Does that make sense?
- [26:23]
Josh Fordy
Yeah.
- [26:24]
Russell Brunson
And in fact if you look at my history, the first decade of business, the businesses were about Me, they were me. They were. I was the sole owner, the sole purpose person. And on this journey, when we started it, it was so different. It was like, how do we like, what's the team look like? How do we like who? You know, Todd was my first time I had a partners. Like, that was so scary for me. And then the greatest thing I possibly could have done right, and then brought in other partners and then employees and man and like, stuff and like, I don't know, it's just. It's been fascinating just realizing that, like, to build this, it wasn't about me. It was about, I don't know, just. Just that. That whole thing. I think anything great. A lot of times there's a person that gets credit for, like, Elon Musk gets credit because whatever Bill Gates or whoever, the people they get the credit for. But it's like you start really seeing how many people are involved to make something amazing. You know what I mean? I think that's the biggest thing for me was I started growing it and it's frustrating. Not frustrating for me, because I enjoy. I like people as a result. Russell mentioned clickfunnels. I was like, I literally don't know how to code anything. There's not one dot of code in that word. Maybe once I leaned over Todd's shoulder, put a button, and then he had deleted, you know, But I think it's cool to see that, like, the, like, how many. And before funnel hacking live, every time we start, we bring our whole team together and I see, you know, I'm the one who's on stage, but I am fully aware that, like, that it is not me. Like, this is us. Like, it wasn't for this team and these people, like, for all of you guys, for all your contribution, this wasn't possible. I want to always ground that because I think sometimes that the leader, whoever gets a big head where they think it's them. And I don't know. And I see that with a lot of people who are on big stages where they still drink their own Kool Aid, still think it's them, and I think that's my shift in the world. Just understand, like, the great things, like the things that we remember, the things that are legacies that go on and on and on. There may be a head or a person that like that the branding tied to it, but it's like there's this group of people that created something amazing that's. But how did you.
- [28:25]
Josh Fordy
Like, how do you stay grounded? Like, one of the things that I like I am a huge fan of Russell Brunson, right? Like, I. Like, because, like, for me, like, you're the person I look up to as not just, hey, you taught me how to make a lot of money, but, like, hey, I want to be. Like, I want to have a character that you have. I don't want to have. Like, I look at Grant Cardone, and I don't. You don't have to talk smack about Grant Cardone. But I can, right? And, like, Grant Cardone is really, really full of himself, right? And, like, don't get me wrong, like, I've learned a lot from Grant Cardone, especially about money. Like, he's changed my perspective about a lot of things. I'm, like, eternally grateful for that. But if, like, if I grew up to be Grant Cardone, like, where that was the focus. I mean, like, I watched him. I was. I was there when, you know, is the. The stadium down in Miami or whatever, right? When it was, you know, it was all about him. And it was. I. I think he even got up on stage and was like, oh, yeah, Russell. Everybody says Russell's the greatest salesman, but I'm the one that packed the house, right? And I'm like, dude, like, you know what I say? Like. Like, why. Why is that necessary? And so, like, how do you. How do you stay grounded, right? Because, like, I think there's. It's so fascinating to, like, watch different type of people. And I know, like, Tai Lopez, for example. Like, for a while there, it was, like, all about time. Like, now he's kind of, like, gone more behind the scenes. But I'm like, each person I watch, whether it's Ty or Gary or Grant, like, they all have a different way about them, and, like, you have your way about them, but, like, the one that I see is, like, the most grounded, humble, like, is, like, there's nobody that's looking at you. You get up on stage and you're like, oh, yeah, everyone's all brought sat. You know what I mean?
- [29:55]
Russell Brunson
Like, you know, right?
- [29:57]
Josh Fordy
And then you meet. You walk up, and Grant's like. But, like, you. It's like, yeah, it's that awkward of, like, hey, I'm just over here. Like, how are you grounded in that? Like, how do you. How do you not let it get to your head? Because it would be so easy for you to get wrapped up in your own head.
- [30:12]
Russell Brunson
Someone told me it's because my wife. They said if you married anybody else, your head would be so big, I think.
- [30:20]
Josh Fordy
So. I, like, met your wife for the first time today. I mean, like, we had crossed paths, but I said, when you were getting your haircut, I was like, so, what's it like being married to Russell? She goes, this is the sixth child of mine. I was like, oh, boy, she's a big kid.
- [30:37]
Russell Brunson
That's awesome. Hey, it's Russell Brunson. And if you're anything like me, you understand that in business, time isn't just money. It's everything. When you're trying to build your dream team, the last thing you want to do is waste time sorting through a mountain of resumes. But what if I told you there's a smarter way instead of searching for candidates you can match with them instantly? Thanks to Indeed, Indeed is the hiring platform you absolutely need in your corner. We're Talking about over 350 million visits each month from all around the world. That's a huge pool of potential talent. And here's the best part. Their matching engine connects you with the right candidate in no time. Imagine skipping the busywork and going straight to the people who fit your job description. Like a glove. Sounds like a dream, right? And it's not just about saving time. It's about getting results that matter. In fact, 93% of employees say Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites. And that's pretty incredible. And I want to tell you, I've been through the hiring process myself. There were times it was slow and frustrating, and I wish I'd known about Indeed back then. It would have made everything so much easier. But here's where it gets even better. Indeed is constantly learning and improving. With over 140 million qualifications and preferences feeding their matching engine every day. The more you use it, the better it gets. It's like having a personal hiring assistant who's always on top of things, making sure you get the best of the best. So don't wait around. Join the 3.5 million businesses worldwide. They're already using Indeed to find top talent fast. And here's something special just for the listeners of the Marketing Secret show. You can get a $75 sponsored job credit to boost your job's visibility at Indeed.com clicks. Just head over to Indeed.com clicks right now and let them know you heard about it on this podcast. Trust me, you're not going to regret it. Terms and conditions may apply. Need to hire? Then you need Indeed. What's up, everyone? This is Russell. And fall is officially in the air, which means crisp mornings, pumpkin flavored everything. And my favorite part is switching out those shorts and T shirts for these cooler weather essentials. Right now, I'm all about finding the perfect cozy cashmere sweater and a sharp leather jacket. And for that, I've got one word for you. Quince. Quince offers affordable, high quality essentials that belong in every wardrobe, whether you're upgrading for the season or just adding some timeless staples. Think luxurious Mongolian cashmere sweaters starting at just $60. Yes, you heard me right. I know that because I literally just bought two. And pants that are so comfortable you'll want to wear them everywhere. What I love most about quints is how they cut out the middlemen. They work directly with responsible factories using premium materials, which means you get incredible pieces for 50 to 80% less than other luxury brands. And let me tell you, now that I'm officially wearing some of their gear, it feels every bit as high end as the designer stuff, but at a fraction of the price. In fact, that sweater I told you about earlier that I snagged, it's super soft. It fits perfectly. It looks like I paid hundreds of dollars, but nope, it was just 60 bucks. If you're ready to upgrade your fall wardrobe without breaking the bank, head over to quince.com clicks for free shipping and 365 day return policy. That's Q U I N C E.com clicks. Seriously, free shipping and a whole year to return. You've got nothing to lose and a whole bunch of really cool cashmere to gain. So go treat yourself to some wardrobe upgrades today@quince.com clicks. I think I say two things and we kind of talked about this earlier, but I'll tie back to like, the first one is that I am fully aware that these, these ideas are not mine.
- [33:47]
Josh Fordy
Right?
- [33:48]
Russell Brunson
Like, I didn't invent the funnel. I didn't invent any of the stuff. All I know is that I was on a path in a journey. I was given the thing and the next thing and I was like freaking out. I was putting them together and like, so that's part of. It's like, like this stuff's not mine. It's, it's, it's stuff that was given to me and tested and so like, I'm so grateful for that. Like, I'm. It's never me. Like, oh, this look what I. Look what I invented. Like, that's so annoying because it's not, right? Like, these are again, come back to these ideas, these thoughts, these desires or things that were given to us. And so I think that's the first part. The second part of it is And I see this a lot in people my, in my world, who, who they have some as success and then they're like, this is my person. I made them a bajillionaire, you know, and like, I hate that too. Cause it's just like you helped them in a piece, but like, but they did the work. I'm very careful like to always like when I'm talking about any of our success stories, like, I didn't make that person. Like, we had this super cool opportunity to be piece of their journey, right? We helped them give them some ideas and a tool. But they're the ones that kill. I gotta work takes to build what they're building. Like, I didn't do that. They did that. And like, I'm grateful that they did. And I'm even more grateful that I gotta be a little piece of. I gotta be part of that journey. I get to see that and just like have the impact of like, oh my gosh, because I killed myself, wrote those books and because Todd killed some software and I was able to communicate it, like, like they're able to do this thing. And it's not all me. I know fully. It's not on me. Like, I know what every entrepreneur should go through to be successful. And it's not a mentor who gives you everything. It's just like a lot of people who are piece. And I've had mentors who, who gave me a piece that I'm so grateful for. But then they try to take all the credit, like, oh, this is when. And I hate that too. And so I think, I think those two sides, number one is like, again, I don't think these ideas are something I came up with. They were given to me and I was going to steward them. And so because I was able to aggregate them, there's a thing. And then number two is just my belief that I didn't help anyone. Even when you said you and Katie, I felt awkward, like, oh, I didn't do anything. Luckily, some of the stuff they resonate with you and it's a little piece of your journey. I'm so grateful for that. The fact to see you do stuff now is so much fun for me to watch you. And just knowing like, man, because he bumped into me, like maybe something happened and now he's doing this stuff. And this work is so cool, seeing how you're impacting people. And I think those are the reasons why my hag is big. Because I don't think it's me. I'm grateful that I get to be a piece of it, of the journey. But I'm not the creator of it.
- [36:05]
Josh Fordy
All right. I want to live. Back to the book. Can we talk?
- [36:09]
Russell Brunson
Read it? You guys want us to read it to you?
- [36:11]
Josh Fordy
Yeah. What was your, like. What was the thing that fascinated you about it? Like when you boxed me, dude. You were like, dude, I read it and I'm geeking out about it. I just want to geek out about it. Like, what? Like, what about it? How'd you. So fast? Like, what did you want to geek out about it? Because I have a question that I want to ask, like, later on about it. But, like, what was the thing that, like, just made you geek?
- [36:29]
Russell Brunson
There are a lot of things. I think the biggest thing that I was really excited we talked about earlier was just.
- [36:33]
Josh Fordy
Sorry, I know. The biggest thing in your own direction.
- [36:35]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, the biggest thing earlier was just this. Cause again, if those who are tuning in late in here, there's a whole. It talks about greed, right? And that concept of greed versus charity. Like, again, the book very much is like, greed is good. It's the thing that causes production. And you should care about yourself. And then good things will happen, like, you'll create jobs and everything else. Take care of yourself as long as you're caring most about yourself, which I thought was kind of cool. But then also I had the other side of. With like, my beliefs in Christ and Christianity and all these things like that where it's just like, oh, like, how does that reconcile with faith, hope, charity and love and like, you know, serving everybody else and like. And so that was like. That's probably the thing that got me the most. I think I keep. I think about that a lot, especially in politics, because again, I'm not deep into politics. I'm not going to talk about who I'm voting for, not voting for. It doesn't matter. But I see that on both sides. I feel like on the Republican side you see a lot of this stuff like. Like this. And then on the Democrat side you see a lot of, like, the charity stuff and you. And again, in my notes, I wrote this actually initially because I want to talk about. It's like, I'm a big believer that, like, there's not like a right and wrong. There's. There's good in both sides. Right.
- [37:39]
Josh Fordy
There's not a right nor, like, right or wrong side.
- [37:42]
Russell Brunson
Yeah. Like, there's. There's like things are messed up on both sides. Like. Like, I think that there's like, it's just how. It's how the World works like Satan and like, there's eternal struggle between God and, you know, Satan and Christ. This is always happening. So there's two sides and there's like, there's. There's God like, principles and things on the right that are amazing. And then there's Satan that's twisting things and jacking him up. Same thing on both sides. Like, I see everyone fighting like, tooth and nail. I'm like, I bet you if we all sat down, the majority of all issues we'd all agree on. But then it's like these fringe things that cause like, so much hatred and fighting and just drives me crazy. And I think that this book's a perfect example, like, what I believe so much in some of these principles, but there's also like, the opposite principles. I also believe it, and they're both right. And it's like that. And that's what you know. And if you, if you miss the beginning part of the interview, talk more about that. But it's like the greed, the growth and contribution, that transition is like the key that just fascinates. Yeah.
- [38:38]
Josh Fordy
So, like, what part of the, like, what part. What parts of the book contradicted the most with your faith? Like, what, what. What part of the books did you have, like, the most. The hardest time with because of your faith?
- [38:49]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, the producers in the book. The minds, the people I connect with. Because, like, that's who I self identify as, a producer. Someone who's obsessed with, like, production and creating and like. Right. Like, I really. So Hank Reardon, these Dagny. Like, all these people, like, I really, like, they're cut from my same for my same cloth. And it's, it's as they're growing, this stuff that they didn't give back, that they didn't. Like, that's the best thing. Like, I felt like they, they weren't rounded out characters. Like, I think that's the biggest thing for me. It's just like, I don't want to be. Like, I like, first, I want to be Hank Reardon. Like, he's freaking the man. He's right. Like, yes. That's all I want to be. I wanted to see him have, like that change of heart where he's Christ, like, and his own free will. Not because the government came with the gun and told me he's got to pay taxes. I wanted to see his character develop and realize that, oh my gosh, like, I should be serving people because I love them, not because the government's forced me. Like, like, that's, that's the piece, I wish. Because that's.
- [39:47]
Josh Fordy
That's, like, never. It, like, never took that turn. Like, the book. It was like you. You almost, like, expected it, and then it didn't happen.
- [39:54]
Russell Brunson
It got worse and worse and worse. And then they wait till everything's, like. People are dying, everything collapses. And then, like, the lights in Europe go out and they're like, okay, now we come back and build.
- [40:02]
Josh Fordy
Now we can come back and build. But, like, even when they come back and build, it was built, like, by our new law. Right. Of, like, basically. So actually, one of the things that's fascinating about that was it in. Gosh, it was towards the end, when was it Gal? I think it was Gal who was like, basically, yeah. I think he was doing a speech when he was like, all we wanted was like, we. We gave the minds inside. Like, we gave all this stuff to you guys, basically, and, like, kind of being like, God there. But, like, we get, like, every day. We. We created all this stuff. We created these jobs, we created these resources. Like, we gave it to you. And all we wanted from you guys was for you to let us be in our own head. Like, let us. Our minds be free and not be controlled by anything else. And you took all that. And not only did you take it all, then you said, no, you're bad, and we're gonna take that away, too. And so we're all going on strike because of that. And, like, you relate to that so much. And then it's like, yes. But then they explain how they live, and it's like you expect them to have that change of heart, but it's rather. But no, it's because we are amazing, and because we are the great minds and we must live by this code. It has nothing to do with, like, actually giving back or actually contributing to society. It's like, they didn't care about contributing to society. That just happened to happen.
- [41:14]
Russell Brunson
Yeah. Which is cool. Which is. Which is why, again, government should let producers produce. Because the byproduct is really good. Right, Right. For everybody. It's like, that part is so much I relate to. But then in part, it's probably because Ayn Rand didn't believe in God. So that wasn't, you know, I mean, it's like, that wasn't part of her values. And so it's tough because she weaved that. I just wish at the end of the book it would have been like, then Hank Reardon realized that he could help all these people himself, and so he built orphanages and changed all these kids. Lives.
- [41:41]
Josh Fordy
Yes.
- [41:42]
Russell Brunson
He's like, duh. Like, that would have been amazing. You know, he found o you are and he went and donated money and saved all these children.
- [41:47]
Josh Fordy
Right.
- [41:48]
Russell Brunson
But he did his own free will because he had that change of heart. Because that's like, I don't know. I don't want to die at the end of my days. And, like, I produced some great jobs, but, like, I didn't care about people. Like, ah. Like, I feel like that missed the mark.
- [42:01]
Josh Fordy
Hank Radon, you say the person you related to most in the book.
- [42:05]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, I think so. I wanted to be Francisco, though. He's pretty sweet.
- [42:10]
Josh Fordy
Who do you think? Who do you think I related to most?
- [42:12]
Russell Brunson
Oh.
- [42:15]
Josh Fordy
Who is it is a relatively main one.
- [42:18]
Russell Brunson
Was it.
- [42:19]
Josh Fordy
You're close.
- [42:19]
Russell Brunson
Oh, is it Francisco?
- [42:20]
Josh Fordy
Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, he was. He was cool right from the beginning. He, like, fascinated me. And, like, I knew, like, right when, like, that she introduced the. Or the plot twist of where, like, he, like, ran off and became the playboy or, like, picture himself as a playboy or, like, whatever. Like, I knew right then and there, I was like, I don't know what the plot. Like, I don't know what the connection is buying. Like, no, this is gonna come back around. It's, like, not gonna be how it seems, right? Like. Because, like, someone, like, the mind doesn't shift and, like, then he stays in the scene or whatever. But, like, he fascinated me because I, like, he strikes me as someone. Hank Raider didn't care about the crowds. He did not at all, right? Like, he hated going to the wedding. He hated going. Like, it was by force that his wife, like, drug him out of there that one time. It was always like, of, I just want to work in my office. Like, I'm actually not like that, right? I am actually much more the. Like, I do like the crowds, but I don't like the crowds because, like, I need praise it. Like, don't get me wrong. Like, I like being on stage and, you know, like, doing this type of stuff. But, like, for me, like, I like the crowds because I love people and I don't. It's funny because I, like, I actually don't get along with a lot of people, like, in real life. Like, I, like, whenever I go to the airport, I'm like, I will pay whatever it takes. Like, put me on a plane first. The least amount of people I have to deal with, whatever, because, like, I don't want to have to interact with people I want to interact with. But, like, I love, like, studying and Understanding people's minds, right? And for me, one of the reasons I am so fascinated by Donald Trump is because of how he can control the crowds. Like, you look at his rallies, dude, like, you can't ignore them. Like, they're just huge. My fiance's parents, like, they went, or her mom and her mom and Courtney went. Yesterday, I think it was last night to Omaha, like 29,000 people showed up in the bitter cold Omaha, like a last minute notice to, you know, and like that type of control, or not even control, but like that type of influence to be able to go through, like, what is it that makes people go and do that? Like, and so like Francisco in the book, like, he, like, he was the partier guy and like, he went and he was with the crowds and he was very good with words and articulated. And then he sold me like at that wedding. And I'm telling you, but like, because to me there's, there's more than two ways, but like super simplified down. There's like two ways to influence people. There's one which is the indirect, which is like build a software company, it's build a product, it's build an iPhone, right? It's like you're not directly influencing them with like your words or like whatever, like, but it's like influencing their behavior by creating a product, by creating a service is gonna go out and change the world. And then the other way is to actually go out there and change them with your words, right? And so that's why, like Jesus, for example, Jesus didn't build a product, right? He did it through his words, kind of, sort of. But like, to me, that's so fascinating. And I'm like, if I can figure out how to do that, like, that's how I can affect real change in the world. And it's funny because, like, you have had such a massive influence on my life, but probably like a year and a half, maybe ish into like me knowing like clickfunnels. I was like, man, Russell's doing it all wrong. And I had this thing, like, if Russell would communicate more about stuff besides funnels, like, he would have a bigger impact, right? And like, I had this like limited belief of like, this is the only way you can influence impact people is by like going out there and actually like speaking to them, right? But like, that's my superpower and my gift. So like in the book, Francisco was the one I think that best represents, like my style of like trying to go out and do things. I find it interesting about Hank Raider with you.
- [45:34]
Russell Brunson
Because Hank is like, I'd be in here building funnels, doing some stuff, right? Like, there's scenes of Hank in the book where he's sitting there looking out over the factories at night and he sees. He watches like the steel being poured. It's glowing. And yeah, he's like, enjoying that. Like, for me, it's similar where, like, I do the stage thing and things like that. Um, I get less value out of like, even interactions hard. But like, I love. I spent a lot of time on social media night just looking at the people that I know are in our world and watching what they're doing. Because that's like me watching the steel. Like. Like I'm not like, my. My mission is not to go teach people how to do what you do. Right. I'm giving you like a blowhorn so you can go do it.
- [46:12]
Josh Fordy
Yeah.
- [46:12]
Russell Brunson
It's like, that's more fast for me to sit back. And it's funny for my wife. Events, it drives her crazy because event will happen, it'll get done, and then I scurry off. I don't want to, like, talk to anybody. I sit in the room and I just like, watch what people do. Take aways and who they're talking to. Like, I spent a lot of time just like watching that's for me, like, looking over the steel be like, I gave them a trumpet or I gave them a blowhorn and now their message is going out there. I just kind of watch it. And so for me, it's like, I don't want to teach personal development and this and that, that. But I want to, like, empower or give these tools or whatever tools that are so that you can. And. And, you know, whoever all the other influencers are to be able to do those things that make sense. Like an amplifier. I'm an amplifier of other people's messages. And my message just happens like, here's the amplification thing. You need amplify your message.
- [46:52]
Josh Fordy
Yeah.
- [46:52]
Russell Brunson
Letting everybody else go and do it.