The Russell Brunson Show

Episode 89: Jason Friedman’s Customer Retention System For Raving Superfans
Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Russell Brunson
Guest: Jason Friedman (Founder, Audience Strategies)
Theme: Rethinking Customer Retention and Creating Raving Superfans

Episode Overview

In this episode, Russell Brunson hands the mic to Jason Friedman, a leading expert in customer experience strategy. While most marketers obsess over acquisition and conversion, Jason reveals why the real growth lever lies in retention—turning customers into raving superfans who recruit others and drive exponential growth. Drawing on lessons from theater, psychology, and decades of business success, Jason offers a dynamic roadmap for engineering client transformations and building businesses where experiences compound, not just convert.

Russell’s Introduction & Background

[01:00 – 02:04]

• Russell sets the stage by emphasizing what makes Jason’s approach unique: the laser focus on what happens after the sale.
• He admits he’s a “marketing nerd” at heart, obsessed with acquisition, but recognizes the hidden goldmine in retention:

  “This presentation… is focusing on growing through retention, not just through acquisition. …to help a lot of you guys make more money without spending more money, which is the key.” (Russell, 01:50)

Why You’re Playing the Wrong Game

[02:05 – 07:00]
Jason begins by sharing a story from a high-level mastermind:

• He notes that every speaker was focused on getting more strangers in the door, but nobody talked about “after the yes.”
• He recalls a challenge to write a book about retention and reveals the forthcoming title:

  “The book is called Addicted to Strangers because you all have an addiction to strangers. How to win while everyone else is playing the wrong game.” (Jason, 05:54)

Key Point:

• Most businesses over-invest in conversion and underinvest in connection.
• Marketing must shift from “funnels to conversions” to “experiences that compound.”

You Can Choreograph Transformation

[07:01 – 10:40]

Jason draws a powerful analogy from his early career in theater:

• Describes a director “engineering” audience reactions and realizing you don’t have to “guess” at transformation—you can design and choreograph it.

  “You can actually deliver and engineer client success… You gotta do it by design, not by default.” (Jason, 08:10)

Experience Isn’t Given—It’s Engineered

• Customers will have an experience regardless; smart businesses craft the experience intentionally.

Flipping ROAS: Return on Audience Success

[10:41 – 13:50]

• Jason proposes a new definition of ROAS: not just “Return on Ad Spend” but “Return on Audience Success.”

  “I want you to flip the funnel… There’s a funnel on the back end… When you do that, they become not just raving fans—they become raving recruiters.” (Jason, 12:15)

• Backend activation is the real lever for sustainable growth:

  “They bring more people in than your ads will ever bring in.” (Jason, 12:30)

The Kinetic Customer Formula: Four Variables for Radical Results

[13:51 – 18:00]

Jason introduces his proprietary model:

• Attitudes: How customers think about you and their journey (often shaped by their internal doubts).
• Behaviors: What actions customers actually take.
• Momentum: The force that magnifies positive customer action.
• Friction: The “silent assassin”—everything that makes it hard to do business with you.

Outcomes—Radical Results:

• Raving, recruiting fans
• Repeat purchase & renewals
• True word-of-mouth

“Funnels convert. Experiences compound.” (Jason, 11:59 repeated & 18:00)

Key Retention Strategies

[18:01 – 31:00]

1. Time to First Value (19:10)

• Get customers an early “win”—not the ultimate result, but a feeling of progress.
• “Most people don’t know when they’re winning—you have to tell them.”

2. Win Streaks

• Stack small wins quickly to build momentum and drive ongoing engagement.

3. Mind the Gap (21:55)

• In theater, transitions are everything. In business, most customers are lost in transitions (e.g., between sales and onboarding, or product tiers).

  “We lose people in the transitions. …You have to look at the transitions.” (Jason, 22:10)

4. Stop Over-Delivering (All the Time) (24:19)

• Over-delivery leads to customer overwhelm and rising costs.

  “If all there ever is, is over-delivery, it becomes expected.” (Jason, 24:43)

• Strategic over-delivery at key moments makes a dramatic, memorable impact.

5. Personalize It (25:30)

• Go beyond “Dear First Name”—deeply know your customers, segment meaningfully, create relevance in all touchpoints.
• “Personalization, especially in this world, is amazing. …It’s not traditonally scalable, but you can scale it in smart ways.”

6. Gamify It (27:00)

• Leverage game mechanics: status, access, community, and “stuff.”
• “People will do anything for a little red ribbon… But what’s really valuable is recognition. …Ascension equals retention.”

7. Engineer Expectations (28:30)

• If you don’t set expectations, customers will—often to your detriment.
• Setting and managing expectations improves results and participation.

8. Reward, Recognize, and Create Rituals (29:40)

• Make customers feel “seen”—don’t ghost them after the sale.
• Rituals can be simple and low-cost but leave a lasting impression.

Memorable Moment: The Sleep Center Ironing Offer

(30:17)
Jason shares an example from the healthcare industry:

“We asked one question: Are you going to work right from here tomorrow? Would you like us to press your clothes? Not once did anyone take us up on this—but almost every client went back to their doctor and said, ‘This place is unbelievable. They thought of everything.’ …They thought the healthcare was better because we asked that question.”
Highlights that unreasonable, totally unexpected gestures can transform perceptions.

The Core Challenge: Flip Your Focus

[32:00 – End]

• Stop treating retention as an afterthought.

• The people who win aren’t those who spend most on acquisition, but whose customers become true advocates:

  “What if… spending the most to acquire a customer was actually based on your customers becoming your best traffic?” (Jason, 33:41)

• With ad costs rising and offers stacking, “offer factories” will lose to transformation factories.

• Final takeaway:

  “Funnels convert. Experiences compound. …While the world automates the soul out of everything, you can build something AI-proof. You don’t need more traffic. You need more traction.” (Jason, 35:04)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the missing conversation:

  “Everything was before the yes. …Nobody was talking about how to get more customers to get results. …It really hit me hard.” (Jason, 02:45)

• On experience:

  “You can’t give people an experience. They have to have one. You can do lots of things to set it up so they do.” (Jason, 03:41)

• On orchestration:

  “You don’t have to guess at transformation. You can choreograph it.” (Jason, 08:02)

• On customer journey:

  “Customers do not move in steps; they move in stories.” (Jason, 17:50)

• On retention and viral growth:

  "They renew, they recruit—not refer, recruit. …They bring them in. …They become raving recruiters.” (Jason, 14:47)

• On the future of business:

  “While the world automates the soul out of everything, you can build something AI-proof. …You don’t need more traffic. You need more traction.” (Jason, 35:04)

Structure Reference Timestamps

• Russell intro & setup: 00:31 – 02:04
• Jason’s opening & theater analogy: 02:05 – 10:40
• Flipping the funnel & ROAS: 10:41 – 13:50
• The Kinetic Customer Formula: 13:51 – 18:00
• Retention strategies rapid-fire: 18:01 – 32:00
• Closing challenge & big idea: 32:01 – end

Key Takeaways

• Customer retention is the real growth engine—not just a cost-control measure but an exponential multiplier.
• Intentional, choreographed experiences turn users into superfans and recruiting advocates.
• Moments, transitions, expectation management, and personalization are where businesses win or lose.
• Stop competing just on acquisition—compete on retention.
• “Funnels convert. Experiences compound.”—your entire business should reflect this mindset.

Listen to this episode if you want smart, tactical ways to grow your business’s lifetime value, reduce your paid traffic dependency, and build an army of recruiting superfans, all while delivering transformational customer experiences that are impossible to copy or automate away.