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The Russell Brunson Show
This Sales Funnel Gap is Killing Your Conversions (Here’s the Fix) | #Marketing - Ep. 29
00:45:11
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You're the owner of a small business, which means you're also the tech guy and HR and personal assistant and head honcho and intern. You could use another pair of hands like the experts you'll find at Verizon Small Business Days, April 21st through 27th. Get a FREE tech check, special deals and more. Call 1-800-483-4428 or visit verizon.comsmallbusiness to book your appointment. Verizon Business this episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there do you have a funnel? But it's not converting. The problem 99.9% of the time is that your funnel is good, but you suck at selling. If you want to learn how to sell so your funnels will actually convert, then get a ticket to my next selling online event by going to sellingonline.com podcast that's sellingonline.com podcast this is the Russell Brunson Show. What's up everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the show. Most of you guys are probably listening to this, but if you can see me right now, I only have one arm, which may seem like a negative thing other than the fact that in two days from now I'm getting my other bicep operated on and I'll have no arms. And so right now I am so grateful in my life that I have one arm that's actually functioning, knowing that soon I'll have zero arms. So backstory for those who don't know Rust internment a couple weeks ago I tore both my biceps. And so they did the first surgery last week, now the second. Anyway, long story short, it's going to be a weird next three or four weeks where I literally will have both my arms and casts. And so it's going to force me to do less and think more and talk more. And so it's kind of fun. I'm recording more podcast episodes, more interviews, things like that, but also strategically spent, like because I literally can't type right now, I can type with one hand and it's so much slower. But soon I'll Be typing with my nose or else having my team type for me. But it's going to be kind of interesting season because I'll have a chance to start thinking more strategically as opposed to tactically doing stuff. So I'm really looking forward to that. A lot of you guys who've ever gone on vacation or something, it gives you that time a lot of times to break away when you start thinking about things differently. So anyway, just kind of catching up on some stuff like that I think is interesting. Today's episode, I wanted to talk about funnels. I don't know about you, but it's still my favorite topic. I still want to talk about these all the time. And a lot of times recently I talk more about personal development and traffic generation, other things like that. But I just wanted to go deeper back into funnels for a lot of reasons. Number one, it's still my favorite topic. But number two, one of my close friends, Jake Leslie, who's been our core lead funnel builder for, I don't even know, five, six, seven years, he asked a really interesting question. Some of his clients he's working with. And so I'm actually gonna play his voxer so you guys can hear it to hear what his question was. And I'm dive into this because it's definitely a trend that we see a lot of people hitting into. So let me play the voxer message real quick and then after that I'll give you some of my thoughts.
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What's up? Hey, I have a question for you. And maybe I'm abusing my powers of just knowing Russell Brunson, but I just have a very honest question and it's driving me nuts. And I'm seeing it over and over again. It drives me crazy. So I would love to hear what Rusty Brunson has to say about it. So I'm talking to a lot of different people obviously in the funnel space. And like a lot of these people have funnels, a lot of them have products, a lot of them have things they just like obviously want to go faster. They want to be like Russell, they want to do this, they want to do that, they want to move faster.
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Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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But what I'm noticing is so many freaking people have like, they have good front ends and then they have high ticketed products, but they don't have like that Core2.97, $97 offer. I'm curious where you've talked about that before or if, like, if you want to break it down, obviously don't expect you to but it's so interesting how they get people to come in for free off of lead magnets and then they're just gonna like assume that like, oh yeah, they're going to pay $2,000 for this thing. So like the Ascension is just like this crazy leap. And I don't. I mean, it's just, it's kind of baffling me. I didn't. I thought most people would struggle on the front inside, which I do see. Like, they just don't have lead magnets that are feeding. You know, the. They're not throwing in the cold, the fire. They're just throwing random people into these like higher priced things. But there's a ton of people that just aren't missing or that are missing that gap of a 97 or 297 or just something in the middle to indoctrinate them into who they are and why they should be paying a higher premium. It's just like, oh, pay me. It's like, who the freak are you? I don't even know who you are. But so many people feel like they don't need to build that indoctrination. And it's driving me nuts. It's like, dude, you have to have this piece. They're not just going to throw fifteen hundred dollars at you. I opted in for free. And then it's like, boom, pay 1500. Like, are you crazy? But so many people do that. Anyway, I don't know where you've taught that before, but I would love to hear the book of Brunson on that particular piece because it's becoming annoying more and more. Why A lot of people are getting frustrated because it's like, oh, this doesn't. Like funnels don't work. Because that didn't work. It's like, no, man, you just like, that's a horrible structure. That's just there. You didn't do that part right. Let's do it right.
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Okay, so what is happening? First off? One of the. I want to have so many different angles, like different directions. I can take this. But the first one I want to spend a little time on because last week we had a really cool opportunity. We're filming a course for Secrets to Success. And basically we got an unpublished manuscript from Napoleon Hill where he was teaching advertising course in 1917. And I had Heath Wilcock and Sean Vossler come out here and we spent like five hours going deep into the books and talking about it and brainstorming. And one of the key principles we talked about was the difference in People who have longevity in this business versus those who are like a spot in the pan, right, who have a little success and it all crashes down to the ground. And the big difference was the people who have been around for a long time are people who not only understand, but they study the fundamentals of business, of marketing and advertising. I've been in this game now almost 25 years. In the 25 years I've played this game, the number of gurus who have come and gone in this space, I want to build the timeline. Nobody would believe me. I think I can mention, like, on top of my people I can remember that started when I got started. There's probably two or maybe three who are still relevant today. So most people don't have longevity. And the reason why, just so you're fully like, it's not that I'm smarter or better. The reason why for me is I geeked out on understanding the psychology behind why these things actually work. I got obsessed with Dan Kennedy and direct mail and reading old books and all these things. And I got really solid in the foundation. Where most people, what they do is they see the tactics of the day, they master the tactics, and they have huge wins. They make a lot of money, too much money for one human being to handle in a very short period of time. And then something shifts in the market, the algorithm or whatever, and then they lose it all overnight. Like, that's literally the thing I've had a chance to watch over 25 years of doing this, probably four or five big business cycles. Every single cycle, there's a new group of entrepreneurs and marketers who fall off the face of the planet. And I've never seen them come back again. And so the reason, like, the difference is that the people who focus on the tactical thing of the day don't surpass when times get hard. I think there's a Warren Buffett quote, says, like, you can tell what it's like when the water, when the tide goes out, you can see who's been swimming naked the whole time. That's kind of what it is when things are easy, everyone's having success, everyone's making money, and then the tide goes out, and that's when most people fall apart. And so a lot of what Jake's asking is because people don't understand the deeper psychology behind what is at play, like why funnels actually work, right? They come in and they see a hack, they see a tactic, and they do that and it works for them. And then they just stopped learning. They're like, literally, okay, cool, I got a thing. Like, I'm just going to keep running this play for as long as I can, you understand? Like, the plays change, the strategy doesn't, the tactical parts of the plays do change. And so in his example, a lot of people are doing like free lead magnet to a call, right? And that model for probably five or six years has worked really, really well in and of itself, right? And the reason why is because advertising was cheap. You can get a lead very cheap, you can call them on the phone. And even though because the advertising cost to acquire the customer so inexpensive, you could, you know, you could, you could only close one out of 20 people and you're still profitable, right? Like, there was the inefficiencies there in the advertising. They made it possible. Then what happens? Advertising costs go up, things get more expensive, everything starts shifting. And all of a sudden now it's like it's not working anymore. Like, and the reality is the metrics are still the same other than, you know, before you could close 1 out of 20, but now because the cost of 10x or 30x or 50x, you gotta close 1 out of 3 or else you're not profitable. And they can't close 1 out of 3. Also, it's like the business upside down, it's not working. Why? It's because they're missing the fundamental strategies behind the scenes of why this actually works. I'm working on my co author book with Dan Kennedy. And it's funny, I've been anti AI tools up until just recently when I lost my left arm and I was like, I can't write right now, so let me just do some research stuff. So what I was doing is I was uploading, I was trying ChatGPT, the $200 a month version. I tried Manius, I'm trying different ones. And so I've been uploading tons of stuff to have it analyzed for me. So what's cool is like I have the book, Dan and I write writing together. So I uploaded all the chapters, he's written the chapters, I've written the outline. And then I started taking all of my, my interviews. Dan. I've interviewed Dan like 50 times in the last three years. I upload all the interviews and everything. And I was like, hey, here's the introduction I made based on this. What are other stories that I've that Dan's told in the past we can weave in. So started like pulling all these stories out that I'd forgotten about. They're like, oh my gosh, this is a great one. And a great one. And so the introduction for mine and Dan's book, the book, I don't know exactly what's gonna be called, but the working title right now is Whoever can spend the most money to acquire Customer Wins. Right? Anyway, the story that it pulled out was from the very first interview I did with Dan during FHL. I think it was 2021. It was right after, it was the first event after Covid. Everyone thought Dan was dead. We bought his company, he came and spoke and it was like one of the coolest moments of funnel hacking live, right? And in that interview I asked him that question about whoever spends the most money to acquire customer wins. And the story he told is really fascinating. He talked about way back in the day, I guess the way the TV cycles worked, right? Like the morning would start at like 7am, whatever. And then they'd have TV happening all the way till Johnny Carson. And when Johnny Carson was over, they assumed everyone went to bed. So then TV just cut off. It was off air all night long. And so Dan and whoever they had started going, these TV companies, like, hey, can we buy the after hour time block? Can we buy all the other stuff? And at first they're like, why would you want to buy it? Like, everyone went to bed after Carson, there's nobody watching tv and they're like, okay, we just want to buy it. So they start selling it to him for like 200 bucks for like 8 hours of dead airtime, right? So they're buying this thing at 200 bucks and they started making a ton of money. Like they were making crazy amounts of money, right? Because it was $200 for eight hours of media time and they only get one or two sell. And it broke even after that was all profit, right? So it was just like the heyday. And they said over time they started realizing like, these guys keep re buying these things, maybe they're, you know, other people started asking if they could advertise. And it went from like, you know, $200 for an eight hour window to, you know, he said, fast forward five years, it was $20,000 for a 30 minute spot because, you know, more if you wanted, it was more valuable. And all of a sudden now, you know, before you can spend $2, you know, $200, you make two sells. You're breaking, right? The average profit. You got eight hour Runway to now it's like, oh, because everyone else wants this. You've got $20,000. You only get 30 minutes. Now the numbers of your business Change radically, right? And so Dan says that we had to become good at, like, understanding whoever can spend the most money to acquire customer wins was like, we had to make more money quicker. So that's announced now. Instead of just selling the product off of our TV time, now we had to start having upsells and down sells, right? Not only that, then we had to, like, send them to a next higher ticket thing afterwards. Not only that is then if they didn't buy our stuff, you know, we still need to make money. So then we would sell that name to like 10 other people that had similar products. Maybe they could sell something, but we got to sell the name for $10 to each different person. So made an extra $50 by selling the name, like all these different things to monetize the money, right? These are the core strategies, are the fundamentals we're talking about, right? And again, you come back to a business where somebody, all they know is Facebook ads are cheap. They're spending $200 for eight hours of airtime. And so the business is easy, but when it shifts, it gets harder. Okay? And so these are some of the things I want you to be thinking about. But then the answers. When I actually voxed Jake Vadic back after that, I said, you know, I said, well, in the book of Brunson, chapter six, verse two, there's this thing called a value ladder, right? And it's funny because I started teaching the value ladder probably 20 years ago. I think it was a version. Dan Kennedy has, like, this ladder concept he talks about. But I don't think for some reason in my head, when he explained it and I started seeing it and started doing it, I pictured it more like the value ladder that's inside the Dotcom secrets book. If you haven't read it yet, go back and read that book. That's the core fundamental thing, right? But the core concept behind the value ladder is that when somebody comes into your world, you ascend them through different offers. And so what happens is in the book, I like different things I say. For example, the very first time I met my wife, I didn't walk up to her the very first time. Like, colette, you were gorgeous. We should get married, have some babies. Like, what would she have done? She would have slapped me in the face. Like, what are you talking about? You're a pervert or whatever, you know, like, that would have ended the date right there, right? We don't go to the top of the value ladder. So what a value ladder looks like if you. I'm going to draw with my finger. But most of you guys are listening to this. On the left hand side there's an axis. On the bottom there's an axis, right? So the left hand side we're going to write price. You know, and so the higher up is higher price, the bottom is lower price and then the bottom one will write value. So the when it's really close to the left hand like axis there, there's little value, little price. But as you move forward, right? As you increase the value, it increases the price and goes up as you move through the graph. Does that make sense? If not, go buy the book. Come on. Or just go to Google and type in Russell Brunson value ladder and you'll see the doodles in Google images, right? But there's this value ladder, right? If you've been following me for any amount of time, you know I always talk about as you're growing and scaling your company, the most important thing is finding the who, not the how. Who is the person that can help you drive more traffic. Who is the person that could be your CEO. Who is the person that could build your funnels. Understanding the who will dramatically speed up the growing and the scaling of your company. Now the best place to find the who's who can help you with your vision is Indeed. When it comes to hiring, the right who's Indeed is all you need. Indeed gives you the ability to stop struggling to get your job post seen on other sites. Because Indeed's got a sponsored job listing where you can stand out in front of your dream hires. With these sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates. That means your funnel builder is going to see it. That means the person driving traffic to your funnels is going to see it. It means your new CEO or CMO or whatever you're looking for is going to see the exact ad for your business as soon as they open up. Indeed. And that makes a huge difference. In fact, according to Indeed data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. One of the things I love about Indeed is it makes hiring so fast. You can post the job and within minutes you're getting applications who are coming in looking to become the who inside of your business. Prior to that, I was often posting my help wanted ads on Facebook and Instagram and getting tons and tons of responses from unqualified people who had no idea what they were doing. Whereas Indeed, again, they're only being seen by the exact person I'm looking To hire now with Indeed sponsored jobs. There's no monthly subscriptions, there's no long term contracts. You only pay for results. They may be wondering how fast is Indeed. Well, in the minute I've been talking to you. So far, 23 hires were made on Indeed across the Indeed network. So there's no longer need to wait any longer. You can speed up your hiring right now by going to Indeed. And listeners of the show get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your job more visible by going to indeed.com clicks just go to indeed.com C L I C K-S right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com clicks terms and conditions apply. Are you hiring? Indeed is all you need. Do you ever get one of those ads that makes you go, why am I even seeing this? Not long ago I kept getting served ads for these super fancy chef grade pots and pans like premium artisan cookware. And I'm sitting here thinking, you guys, I barely even know how to boil water properly. I'm more of a protein bar and a podcast guy now. I'm not knocking the product. It just wasn't meant for me. And the real problem is that the company probably paid good money to show me that ad. And that's why I always tell marketers that relevance is everything. And that's where LinkedIn ads comes in. This isn't your average ad platform. It's a network of over a billion professionals and targeting options are insane. You can target the exact buyers by job title, industry, company size, role, seniority, even skills, and company revenue. That means your message gets in front of the right people, not someone who thinks that instant ramen is gourmet dining. Now, if you're serious about B2B marketing and not just throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping it'll stick, then you've got to be on LinkedIn. And here's the best part. LinkedIn will give you $100 credit on your next campaign so you can see it in action. Just go to LinkedIn.com clicks that's LinkedIn.com C L I C K s. Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. And so what happens is, ideally, the thing at the back is what we want, right? Like, I wanted to marry my wife and a bunch of kids with her. That was like, that's the end goal. That's the extreme value. I'm gonna get the most value from her. It's going to be the most expensive thing, but it's the best, right? Just like, for you guys, like, if you, like, honestly, the way that I could serve you the best as a client is not for you to go buy a book. Like, it's a great thing, right? The way I could serve you the best is have you actually come here to Boise in my office, and I just built the entire funnel for you, right? Like, that would be the best for me to actually do that. Like, realistically, this point in our career and our team and everything, it'd be like, we need to charge you a million dollars up front plus the percentage of royalties on that funnel for the rest of its life, right? And so that's what it takes. But if I came up to you on the street, I'm like, hey, my name is Russell Brunson. I know I look like I'm 11 years old, but this is the deal. I have this thing where if you give me a million dollars, I will build a sales funnel for you. Plus, I want a percentage of all the sales you ever make from that. Will you give me a million dollars? Like, that's the equivalent of me walking up to my wife. Day number one, like, we should go have babies. That's the same thing, right? It's like, most people are going to say no, right? If they don't say no, maybe you should be. You know, there's other issues there, probably. So that's what a lot of people are doing in business. That's what. What Jake was talking about. He would do. They're getting a lead. They call them on the phone, like, hey, do I buy my 1500 or 15,000 or whatever. The thing is, right, they're trying to give somebody a high price with a lot of value without proving the value first. So how does it work in the real world? I come back to my wife. I see her, I'm like, man, man, she's cute. First thing I'm going to do is I'm going to go talk to her, right? The talking to the spouse, number one is like, that's the first tier of the value ladder, right? We're having a conversation. What's happening is there's no price, right? Other times, she's spending a little time with me, we're having a conversation, and really quick, she's going to figure out something like, did I receive value from this interaction? If she receives value from this interaction, we talk for 15 minutes, whatever. I'm like, hey, would you want to go out someday? I'm moving her up the value ladder now. If she did not give value at that step in the interaction, she's like, oh, let me look at my calendar. I'll get back to you. And she's going to ghost me after that, right? Like, because I didn't provide value at the lowest tier, but if I did provide value, she's like, man, this. I really enjoyed this relationship. That talk was awesome. I love to go out with this person again. She'll say yes, and I move up a tier in the value ladder, right? So now it's happening. Now the value went up. And then for me, now there's a price. I'm going to take her on a date. It's going to cost me a couple hundred bucks. We're going to go out to dinner. We're going to go on a walk, we're going to go to a movie, whatever that thing is, right? And I'm going to go on that date. And at that tier in the value ladder, we're in this experience together, and we're both trying to figure out, like, are we getting value from this interaction? If somebody. If I got value for my wife and she gets value for me, right? That first date's great, then I might say, hey, I want to go on another date with you. Right? If we both decide, then we moved up to the next tier in the value add, right? And eventually I'm going to go in, I'm going to go for a kiss, and, you know, if I haven't given value, then she's going to walk away. If she has gotten value, then she's going to kiss me back, right? And then if the kiss was good and it's like, that was value, then I want the next. And so we start moving through this value ladder. Well, eventually, I dropped down on a knee and I proposed. And she's like, yes, I would love to. It's not scary at that point right now, sure. Again, you can go. And if you walked up to 100 people on the street and proposed, you could probably get one or two people to say yes to your marriage proposals. Like, it's the thing. There's gonna be people like, yeah, I got no other options. Let's do it, right? And that's literally what people like Jake's talking about are doing on their business right now. Like, they're going from zero value to someone top tier of the value ladder. And the only people who are coming in typically are people who are insane. They are crazy. They're not gonna be the best clients. They're not gonna understand you, your culture, anything. And so it's all these things that Happen, right? Higher refund rates, lower satisfaction rates, and all these things happen, right? But you get a couple crazies to say yes. Okay, so now I wanna fast forward to what happens when the water goes out and all these people look naked, right? Or, you know, the advertising cost goes from $200 for eight hours to $20,000 for 30 minutes, right? Or it goes from your Facebook ads costing $3 a lead to $50 a lead. Like what happens in your business now. And that's the problem most people are struggling with, is they are going from no value to tons of value. And so the value ladder is the key. And what's funny to me, it's really interesting to me because before I wrote the Dotcom Secrets book, I spent 10 years teaching these concepts. I was teaching value ladder. I was teaching funnels. I was traveling around the world teaching these things, and I decided to put it into a book. And then for the next two or three years, we launched Dotcom Secrets book. People are finding understanding funnels. It was great. And then what was funny to me is then all these people knew that my audience had read the Dotcom Secrets book. They knew that they understood my principles. And so they're using smart marketing, which is tactically trying to confuse you by breaking away from the strategy, right? So I saw all the time, I'm like, don't do a value ladder. Value ladders are stupid. Go directly for high ticket. Okay? I can tell you probably 50 high ticket coaches who literally in their ads talk about my value ladder and say, skip the rest of the value ladder. Just focus on this. Because they're going after a strategy I'm teaching, and they're saying, we found this hack to be able to do this, right? And so they're doing that. So everyone's like, oh, screw the value ladder ice and go high ticket, right? So they're listening to that because most people are not paying attention to the strategies. You got to dig deeper for the strategies. You got to read a book. You got to go to a course. Like, you got to go deeper for the strategies, typically, right? And most of the wannabe coaches on the planet, on the Internet right now, guess what they didn't do? They didn't read the book. They didn't go through the time, they didn't go study Dan Kennedy. They didn't go through these things, right? All there was like, what's the hack? I was on this webinar. This guy said I could just do an ad and get someone on the phone, right? And yes, typically what happens it works for somebody for a window. It stops working as effectively and they start teaching it to you. So by time it's been handed to you as like the killer strategy of the day. It's already less effective, right? And eventually that wears out and then you never understood the strategy and then your business disappears. And you're one of the death tales that we hear about all the time from these cycles of business, right? Because you never understood the fundamental strategies behind it. Okay, same thing when I had people come out with webinars. Like webinars are better. You don't do any value. Just do the webinar and then you know every variation of it. And so I want to come back to you is like this, this revisiting and coming back to the concept of the value ladder. Because when the water comes out, this is the key you have to understand, you have to master, right? You are providing people value to people along the along the way. Now, what's cool about today that wasn't there when I wrote Dotcom Secrets book a decade ago was we didn't have social media. Social media is amplifiers also. It's the front end of the value ladder. Like it's, it's pre any funnel. This is me seeing my wife at a party and having a first initial conversation. That's what social media is, right? And what's cool. In fact, I literally just finished a podcast interview with Adley and it's probably there, you probably heard it last week or it's come the week after. So I'm not sure where it's going to fit in the publishing queue, you know, but she's out there and she just does free videos out that she's got there. She said that she's gotten a billion views per month for every month since 2020. So what's she doing? She's creating these value videos that go viral to bring people. It's the frontier of the value ladder. People watch that either her or her brands that she's running, they get value and then boom, naturally sends them to the next tier. Right? And now you start moving through the value ladder. Okay, if you look at my businesses, you probably notice I have products at all sorts of price points, right? I have free plus shipping books. Right. Well, first off, sorry, first the value ladder. We've got organic content, YouTube, Instagram, social podcasts. Like all that stuff is us hanging out on a date, trying to build a relationship. Then from there, hopefully, if you guys enjoy this, like, especially this podcast, a lot of you guys who haven't read a.com secrets book. You're like, wow, that podcast is really valuable. Russell said I probably should get the book he's talking about, right? My guest will probably sell two or 300 books in this podcast, right? So two or 300 of you guys haven't read the book yet and go buy the book and all of a sudden you read the book, you're going to get that in the mail. And that's the next tier, the value ladder. You get the book, you're going to read it, you're like, whoa, I never understood this. Like now I know what funnels are, how they work, understand value ladders, understand these things, right? You can get value from there. Then you're like, I'm going to go all in. I'm going to need click funnels. You're going to go buy click funnels. Then you're going to go through one of our courses and you're going to start moving through these different value ladders, right? Then you're going to go to the selling online event. Selling online is $100, right? You come to this event, it's $100. It's a three day event with me, someone pays $100, it's price is low, but they get three days worth of value with me. Tons of connection, tons of like you know, getting value. And we make the offer. And that step through the next step in coaching, right? Now 5.5% of the people who buy the $100 offer end up ascending to our higher end coaching program, right? And it's just like. And then from there they go into our inner circle and then it's moving people through these different levels of offers. And so for you and your business, like you need that value ladder because there are people. Yes, there are people. Either the cream of the crop or the bottom feeders will go directly from meeting you socially to saying yes to your proposal five minutes later. There are those people, but they are few and far between. And as media gets harder, it's gonna be harder and harder to find those people. So what do we do? Right? We take them on dates, we build relationships, we sell them a free plus shipping book, we sell them a $7 course, we sell them $100 three day event. We sell them a $297, whatever it is, we sell them a $500 thing. We have things at different price points, right? Because we're moving them systematically through the value ladder. Okay? And every time I talk about this, people like, I would never buy that. I only buy the most expensive, like I understand. Okay. But you are rare, right? There are people who come to my world. The very first thing they buy is $250,000 ticket to Atlas group. That happens not very often. If I based my money off of the random person who went directly top of the value ladder, I would not be here today. It's building a pipeline of people. It comes back to. It's biblical, like the law of the harvest. We're planting seeds. We're planting seeds. So we're planting free seeds socially. Then we're plant. Then we're nurturing the seeds. Trying to weave in like 50 analogies here so that one of these will land for you guys. Okay? So law of the harvest, right? So I'm planting social seed. You come over, right? You got the seed. Now I'm watering with the book. And then, you know, you're growing. It's nurturing more. We provide more value. Now we're going to sell, you know, the next thing, the next thing. And so if you look at my sequences, you guys are probably on our email list. If not, go buy something from me. So you can see the sequences. Like it'll be more valuable than anything. But if you look at our business right now, we have our core things. Moving somebody through, right? If you look at the core, we have a very much direct line where we're taking people, taking you from free social to a book to $100 event, selling online from there, getting a clickfunnels account from there. Our prime mover coaching program, Inner circle Atlas. Like there's our straight line, right? But we decided we have a whole bunch of different offers to get you guys to keep moving. Okay, how do I explain this? A buyer who is in heat will continue to buy, right? I told some of this before. I think I got this from Dan Kennedy, I believe. But it's like a person will continue to buy from you until you either stop selling them something or you offend them. Okay? So but if you stop selling something, they're gonna go look for something else. Okay. The first time I got this, man, rewind back a long time. This is probably 18 years ago now. It's crazy. Ryan, Deiss and I were both in Bill Glaser's mastermind. Bill Glaser's Dan Kennedy's mastermind group. But we were in different groups. And one time Bill did a group together where we all met in the Bahamas and did like a co group together, right? So Ryan was in the other group. I was in this group. And so we go to this thing in Bahamas. And it's the first time we had a really chance to hang out. And I remember Ryan pulled me aside. He's like, hey. He's like, why are you here? I'm like, because Bill threw the event here. He's like, no, why are you in Bill's Mastermind? And I was like, I don't know. Like, the offer seemed good. I wanted to be. I want to keep learning. Like, I loved it. And he's like, have you studied jbram? Like, yeah. I was like, I bought everything J. Brahm had. He's like, me, too. He's like, then what? He's like, I'm like, he didn't have anything else to buy. He's like, well, if you studied so and so. I'm like, yeah, I bought everything. He's like, hey, me too. He's like, I'm here in this room because Dan Kennedy is the only person who continues to sell me stuff. Everybody else stopped. They had one or two offers and they stopped selling. He's like, I'm here because Dan kept selling me things. I was like, oh, my gosh, that's true for me, too. Like, I stopped plugging into everybody else because they stopped having offers. I kept. I kept. Because I wasn't getting offers. Like, I moved to, like, people want to buy. Like, they're in motion, right? So buyers in heat. They're keep buying for you till you stop selling something or you offend them, so you defend them. That's a different problem. We'll talk about that on a different podcast. But if you stop selling it to them, they're still going to be looking for that thing somewhere else. They're going to go, they're going to find somebody else to plug into to get that it scratched. So you have to keep offering him stuff. Another good example is TJ Rowlett is one of the best, the greatest direct mail marketers of all time. He's in the business opportunity niche. He has a huge list of offline people, and he sends them, you know, how to make money information in the mail. And I don't know what TJ publishes right now, but I did an interview with him, like, 10 years ago, and he was publishing. I was sending out like, 100,000 letters a week. Some crazy number. Like when we send in emails, he's sending out in letters. And it was interesting because I was trying to do this big JV with him. Like, hey, like, you should send out one of my letters and we can make a bunch of money. And he's like, cool. He's like, here's my list broker. Just go rent my list anytime you want. I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, just rent, just rent the list and then you can send out whatever you want to him whenever you want. I was like, but doesn't that like, interrupt what you're doing? Like, doesn't that like if they're seeing my message and yours, like what they have on mine and not yours? He's like, he's like, russell, you don't understand how people work. He's like, they're gonna continue to buy. He's like, what I found. He's like, the more, he's like, the more. And again, he's in the business opportunity market. He's like, the more business opportunities they buy, the more likely they are to buy more. He's like, when they, he's like, the worst thing is when they stop buying stuff. Because when they stop buying stuff, they give up hope and then they stop, they don't keep buying stuff. He's like, I want you to rent my list because if I have a segment that hasn't been buying and you convince them to buy again, then they're back in the business opportunity market. Now they're buying my stuff again, right? And for us, most of us look at it so differently. We're like, this is our list. Like, we're gonna protect them. But the reality is these people are buying from everybody anyway, right? And so you have to keep having offers to go out there. So if you look at our follow up sequences once again, go buy something from me so you can get on sequence. But every single week we have some offer going out. And this happening to the Russell Brunson list. 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I did a podcast recently about this, talking about free content funnels, but it's the same thing each week. There is a core offer that we are trying to get people on our list to actually go buy. Okay. And the only reason why is we're trying to keep people in the buying motion. Okay? So, for example, last week we gave out Funnelligy. So Funology is a $7. It used to be like a. Used to be a $97 course, made a $7 version of it, right? And my goal is I just need people to buy this so they'll study funnels, and guess what? They buy it. They're still learning about funnels from me. And on top of that, they have more desire to have funnel software if they have funnels, and they have more desire to learn how to sell through those funnels and buy my everything else. It stimulates growth in all the other things I'm selling, right? And so we sent out two or three emails last week. There's a free training video about phonology, whatever. And then they went and bought the course for seven bucks. And we sold, I think 1200 copies, okay? And it wasn't huge revenue generator, like 1200 copies at seven bucks a piece, plus upsell down sell. So I don't know what the math is. So we probably made 50, 60 grand, which is great. But what was more powerful is 1200 people now, like, we kept them in the buying cycle. They're still buying for me. They're still interested in funnels. They're still interested in these things, right? Like, it stimulated that desire back in them that they would have lost had I not sold them more things, right? If your business is free, opt in to a $15,000 coaching program and nothing else. Like, you are literally just taking the top 1%, the 1%, 1% who wants something, and you're forgetting everybody else, right? And then most people aren't ready to buy it anyway. So there's so much, so much breakage in your model. There's so much money you're losing because you're only getting the cream of the crop or the crazy people. And you're missing out on the majority of your audience, which are people that just, number one, they need to buy something from you, feel comfortable. They have a good experience. They want to learn your content, they want to hear Your frameworks, they want to understand, they want to go deeper with you so they get value before they move in to send up, right? And then number two, it's a lot of people, like, you're not messaging, so they're falling out of your buying cycle very, very quickly. They're moving on to something else. Like if you realize if you don't email your list at least once a month, they will forget about you. If your email lists at least once a week, even worst case scenario, you should be emailing your list once a week. I remember when I first got into this game, I was so scared to send email to my list because again, I just set it up. The first time I set up the autoresponder, I figured it out and I had started getting people my list. I sent an email, but like, the reply address was my own, right? So I sent an email out and then two or three people right back, like, I hope you die. Stop sending me emails. My God. Like, I freak out, right? So I unsubscribe, okay? People don't like getting emails. And so I had this false belief, like, people don't want emails. And so I was very careful. Like once a month I sent an email because I didn't want to annoy him. I don't want to, like, overbearing. I was like, I'm careful. It's like once a month I send emails. So I send an email and then, you know, a bunch of people unsubscribed, angry and like, oh, so. And that was like, what I was doing. I was just like, people hate getting emails. I'm going to interrupt them once a month and that's it. And then I remember Matt Fury is one of the guys I was studying really hardcore at the time back then. And I bought his email training and his email training. He was like, I send out two emails a day. I was like, what? Two emails a day? I'm like, I'm like, there's no way. And he's like, what happens? He's like, initially, at first, he's like, you get a lot of unsubscribes to the annoying people. He's like, then afterwards you have these people who are looking forward to your emails every single day. And so I remember thinking, I was like, well, I am not willing to do two emails a day, but I'm gonna try to do it twice a month instead of once a month. And so I did that. I started sending two emails a month. And at that time I figured out how to like, have My unsubscribes and angry people go to, like, a filtered inbox. I wasn't personally seeing them because I. You get emotionally scared when you see the people coming back, like, unsubscribing, you're like, oh. And it's like, you know, a thousand people got the email and there's one angry person, right? And so I was like, I can't see those because they're making me not want to market. I'm just shifting things around. So I started emailing twice a month, right? So I increased the thing. And what happened is, as my income started, my income more than doubled by doing that. I was like, interesting. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna try once a week. And so I went to once a week, right? And again, my income more than doubled. Again. I was like, okay. And that was my cadence for a long time. And then I remember I had this product coming out, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna save up all my goodwill, all my value. I'm like, I don't want, like. I wanna, like. I want these people, like, to just be waiting for this thing for me. So I. As we were building this thing, I didn't send an email. Cause I was waiting. And I thought again in my head, I'm like, let's take two weeks to build that. Two weeks turned into six weeks, which turned into eight weeks. And you know how software is. And eventually it was like, we're three months in and finally it's done. I'm so excited. And I'm like, my list is like. I'm sure they've been waiting here for me for the last three months, just, like, anticipating the day that I'm gonna respond. I'm sending another email. So I go and I send an email to that list. And it was crazy. Guess what happened? Nothing. It was crickets. Nobody knew who I was. They'd already forgotten who I was in three months. I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, people's attention. Like, I thought they were all sitting around anxiously waiting for my email, waiting for me to be done with this thing I was creating. They weren't. They read everybody else and they forgot who I was. I was irrelevant at that point. They didn't even know my name. And I realized my list was dead. I had to start over from scratch. And when I started from scratch again, I said, okay, I'm never gonna send less than one email a day. And we started getting to the point where I was making three emails a week. And I'm probably Closer to three to five email emails a week. Bandwagon, right? Now, I do have one friend who sends nine emails a day. So there are different versions, but the reality is, like, you have to be top of mind. You have to be communicating. You have to be there. The reason my friend who sends out nine emails a day, he's in the dating market. His name's John Alnus. It was interesting. He told me this. He's like, he was doing Matt Fury, the two emails a day for a long time, and then he upped it to nine. I was like, why are you sending out nine emails a day? And he's in the market. He's helping men to get a girlfriend, right? Like, that's the market he's in. He's like. He's like most of the men on my list, he's like, they open up the nine emails a day because they want entertainment. He's like, I'm entertaining. In fact, John's who I learned the concept of an attractive character from. So he's like, you be an attractive character, people like you, and you build this relationship. He's like, that's how the whole game is played, right? And he's like, 90% of the time, my men, like, they have a girlfriend. They're here for entertainment, right? They want to hear me funny stories and then all these things. But he's like, there's a window where they get their heart broken. And he's like, whoever is the first person in the inbox, when that pain point is there, that person is the one who's going to get the sale. And he's like, so I need to make sure that the moment that they get their heart broken, like, my email's in there. So he's like, nine emails a day. Because I'm not sure when that it's going to. When the heartbreak's going to happen. But as soon as it happens, I got to be sure I'm sliding in there. They're reading my thing because that's what they're going to buy. Because he's like, in my market, they're not buying all the time. When they have a girlfriend, there's no pain. They're fine. When the girl's gone, that's when they're buying. So he's like, consistency. And I think for you guys, it's same thing. Like, we keep thinking, like, I don't want to know my customers, they've heard about my thing, whatever it is. It's like, no, no, no. Like, you got to be out there if they fall out of the buying cycle either they are leaving the market, which is the tragedy. So I TJ Roller send them stuff to get them back, get them back in the market, get them really excited about the potential of losing weight and making money, whatever your thing is, right? So it's like that's part of it. Number two is like if they, if they're not hearing from you, they're spending their dollars somewhere, right? This is their discretionary money they're spending with somebody. And if you're not there making them offers, then they're gonna go somewhere else. The business that can make the most offers in any industry is always the business that wins. There's a writer downer. The business in any industry that makes the most offers is the business that wins. It's funny, I get people all the time. Russell, I'm so overwhelmed. You make so many different offers. That's the game, right? Because again, I've got 6 million people on my list. 1200 bought Funology. That means there are 5 million 900 and whatever the numbers are who didn't buy something last week, right. I got to reach like, what's another offer we can do? Okay, let's go tell about this thing. Some of this thing and some are going to be low tickets. I mean mid tickets are going to be high tickets. I'm going to be free with a high ticket upsell. Like you'll notice the, the, the price points of things I'm we're offering are variable, right? They're changing, they're shifting because we're moving people through the value ladder. Right. Some of you guys will never in a million years buy like register for webinar. I understand that. Right? Cool. If you're not going to register for webinar, maybe you buy, you're going to buy a free book. I buy every free book offer. I say I love free books, right? Like I love books as a whole. So I'm buy every free book offer. Okay. I'm probably not going to watch a webinar. Probably not going to watch a challenge. I probably will watch a vsl. Like there's different. Everyone buys differently too, right. So I'm hitting different modalities, right. You'll probably notice again if you sit on the email sequence, start watching. Notice that one time we're doing a webinar, okay. That's a modality that a certain percentage of people will go and consume. Other times I'm doing a free video series. You opt in, Give this video 1, video 2, video 3, all pushed into a free trial, right? Or to a free book. Another way is just straight free offer. Sometimes it is going directly, like, hey, call this number and jump on a call. Here's a book, a call, right? There are times I go directly from there, right? But, like, this is, like, this is how you make your business, you know, protected when this. When the. When the tide goes out. And so these are the things I wanted to just kind of talk about is really coming back to, like, you guys have to understand the strategy of business, understand customer psychology, understanding these things. I'd recommend diving back and into the Dotcom secrets book. If you haven't just understand these things. Like, you probably fell for an ad that was like, all you gotta do is skip the value ladder. Just go to the high ticket. And, yeah, it worked for a season. But ad costs aren't 200 bucks for eight hours anymore for cable TV, right? They're $20,000 for 30 minutes. Facebook ads are no longer $3 leads anymore, right? We're $30 leads. So the game's changed. The game shifted. You have to come back to the fundamentals, and always, always a reset to the fundamentals. When you reset back to the fundamentals and start saying, hey, why did this stuff work? Like, those are the people who have lasted the test of time again. I've been here 25 years, two or three people I can name that are still relevant today. And that's like, literally thousands of people who have come and gone who were always like, the guru, the person, the brand, right? And the longevity for me comes back to, like, I'm still the guy who's studying Dan Kennedy. I'm still reading Napoleon Hill's advertising course from 1917, right? Like, it's understanding these core fundamentals that do not change. It's not jumping on the bandwagon of the tactic of the day because they don't last, okay? The stuff that lasts is the stuff. So you need a pallet of offers. You need, you know, again, you. You. And I'm gonna take it one step further. If you haven't gone through the linchpin training, the linchpin that I think is taking the value ladder and putting on steroids is structuring the value ladder a little bit differently. It's kind of like phasing. Like, you understand the value ladder, then linchpin is. So if you go to. I think it's linchpin book.com or free linchpin book.com you can go get that book and it'll show you the next step, which Is like, here you take the value out, and you structure it with some guardrails, and it gives you the ability to scale the fastest. But reality is, like, you need different offers. Like, you need a continuity offer, which is what the linchpin is all based around, right? You need a free plus shipping, which is the myth that puts people into the continuity, right? You need, like, again, $100 offer, which is like demand demonstration number two, right? Which is our version of selling online. You need free events, like free challenges, free webinar, which is dramatic demonstration number one. Like, if you look at the game plan, like you look at the playbook that I'm playing in all of our brands, it literally is the linchpin. Like, it's understanding the value ladder, structuring it through the linchpin. And you can look at any of my funnels, any of my offers. Like, where does this fit? It's like, oh, it's this part of the linchpin. It's this part. It's this part. Like, there's not just me randomly. I think people think sometimes I'm randomly putting out offers. No, no, no. There is strategy behind all. There's guardrails. There's a thing, right? It's the value adder is the concept. The linchpin is the how we execute on the strategy. And everything we're doing is pushing people through one of those parts of the funnels to get somebody into our. So I hope that's helpful. Hope it gives you guys excited to go dive deeper, even. Not even, but especially if your business is struggling now. Especially if you're having success 18 months ago and you're struggling to. Especially if you had a success five years ago and you're, like, not doing it right now. These are the core fundamentals you got to go back to. These are what people have been doing and testing throughout time as media's change in every industry, from TV ads to direct mail to radio, to fax machines to. To email to direct mail, like, just across the board. You gotta go back in the past to study from industries whose media costs rose to be able to survive today's market, where Internet media has rose so much because it's a different landscape than it ever has been in the past. And. Or it's understanding how to do organic stuff at a high level, where now, instead of being the commercials on the TV show, you are the TV show. I think there's value in understanding both sides of those, because whoever can spend the most money to acquire customer wins. And if you can get Customers for free through organic. That makes sense as well. So revisit the fundamentals, go back to Dotcom Secrets, read that book again, then read the linchpin book as homework assignment number two. That's like your. That's your funnel building 101 and funnel building 201. It's more advanced course. A lot of people struggle a little more, understand that one. But it is the way to really start growing and scaling your businesses in a world that we live in today. So that said, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. I appreciate you guys listening in. Thank you, Jake for the great question. Maybe we'll step away if you guys ask more questions in the future because I like kind of going off on these rants with you. I'll leave one last thing and that is don't forget your one funnel away. Which one is it? Go read the Dotcom Secrets book and find out. Thanks you guys and see you soon. Hey, this is Russell. I had a really cool offer for you right now. Shortly after we launched ClickFunnels, I remember asking some of our top two common club award winners, what would they do if they had everything taken away from it? They lost their name, their brand, their email list, their traffic, everything. All they had was a clickfunnels account and Internet connection for 30 days. What would they do over the next 30 days to get back on top? I asked over 102 comma club winners and from that 30 people wrote me back and gave me very detailed step by step battle plans. Day number one, they would do this. Day number two, they would do this. And by the time the 30 days was done, they'd be back on top of the very successful business. Do you want to know what these people wrote? If so, I took all these 30 battle plans and put them inside of one book. You can get free at 30days.com. All you gotta do is go to 30days.com and go get a free copy of this book. We'll ship it out to you. Just cover the shipping, handling and when you get it in the mailbox, you have a chance to go through and look at all of these detailed step by step blueprints. All you gotta do is find one of these blueprints that you like, follow it step by step and when you're done, you will have your own online business done and launched and live. So go get a free copy of one of my favorite books we've ever created at 30days.com. Again, that's 30days.com.