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The Russell Brunson Show
Unlocking the Secrets to a Profitable Funnel Agency with Katheryn Jones Lish
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Semiconductors and cloud computing.
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Income, emerging markets and more, visit globalxetf's.com what's up everybody? This is Russell. Welcome back to the podcast formerly known as the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Now probably going to be shifting to the Selling Online podcast. I don't know if I'll update it by the time you listen this episode, but that's one of my evil plans. So anyway, we're working on a rebrand right now of the show, but I want to welcome you guys on the show today. Today we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics wrapped in a really cool wrapper. Obviously you know my favorite thing in this world besides my wife and kids and wrestling and sushi. This beats sushi for sure. My favorite thing is sales funnels. Today we're gonna talk about selling sales funnels. How can you become a funnel builder and actually get paid as a career building funnels for other people? And I the last couple days we've actually been doing a challenge here inside the Clickfunnels office called the Sell Sells Funnels challenge, which has been so much fun and have had Catherine Jones Lish up here who's someone who came through one of our very first certification programs back in the day. She learned how to sell sales funnels, made a huge career out of it and then since then we decided to partner up with her program and our program to make something insane. And this podcast episode is going to be giving you guys some of the core beats of what we talked about during this challenge. But hopefully guys introduce you guys to a really cool opportunity which is the fact you can make a career out of building sales funnels for other people. It's gonna be a lot of fun. So that said, let's jump in the podcast and hang out with Catherine Jones Lish. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is gonna show you how to start, grow and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets podcast. All right, so today, you guys, I'm excited to be here with Katherine Jones Lish, which now we've added a new last name.
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Can you believe it? Your girl got married. I know. No one thought it could happen. Myself included. God is good.
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Congratulations.
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Thank you.
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It's been a couple of years now. This is old news.
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Yeah.
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You got a baby now, too?
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B
I do, in fact, have a baby, yeah.
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All right, well, let's jump. Sorry. A lot of people just jumped on podcasts. They don't know what we're even talking about right now. So I'm going to take a step back. So I'm excited to be hanging out with Katherine today. And she's someone who. When did you first come into the click funnels ecosystem? Our world. I don't even know what year it was.
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2015.
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2015.
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Okay, yeah, 2015. Maybe 2016. I was, like, just learning about, like, making money online. I was using lead pages. Forgive me, I didn't know. Wow.
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I put them out of business.
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I know, I know. You seriously did. But that's what I was using for anybody listening. And you know when you're like, in that phase of business where you're like, I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm doing everything, and I'm on every webinar that's ever existed. So I was on a public speaking webinar, and it was at the very end, and it was a Q and A. And somebody in the chat asked, what software did you use to say, pitch a product? Then what software did you use to build your order form page? And just, like, on a one off, the guy was like, oh, use clickfunnels. And he just, like, went on. And I was like, click what? Yeah. And I just, like, had never heard about it, so I just, like, googled it or so I just, like, looked it up. And then, of course, you know, you're retargeting me. I got, like, an email for your.com Secrets book. Read the book, cried in my college dorm room because I was like, finally, this all makes sense to me. And then, you know, one thing after another. It's like, amazing. Anybody that's following you, it's like, you tell us what you're doing to sell us and we even know what's happening when it's happening. And you're like, dang it. You're like, here's my money. I even know what you're doing. It's not even like mind tricks. You're like, crap. Anyway, so it started with the book, and then I've gone through all your programs, and anyway, now we're partnering and doing fun stuff now.
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A
Yeah, it's so cool. So what we're gonna talk about this podcast. And by the way, for those who are gonna be hearing in maybe two episodes with Katherine today, she's here in Boise because we just finished a challenge together called the Sell Sells funnels. So sell S E L L than Sales S A L E S funnels. The Sales Sell Funnels challenge about selling sales funnels. Because there's so many opportunities in the funnel world, right? There's. You can be a funnel builder, you can be a copywriter, you can build your own funnels. You can do E commerce or info or all sorts of stuff. But one of the coolest, I think, opportunities that's out there that most people even know about is the fact that you can sell funnels as a living. You can build funnels and sell them, and you can. And you can make this. And so for you, one of the first things, I mean, you did other things, but one of the things that you did initially was actually start building funnels for other people and doing stuff like that. I'd love to hear just the translate or the transition from you, like, learning about funnels to, like, I don't know if there's a moment or aha of like, I could actually do this for people and get paid as. And this could be a career for me.
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Yeah. So, yeah. So honestly, like, how the whole thing started, I, like, never envisioned myself as an entrepreneur. I was just in college, and I kind of bounced around majors, but they're all art majors. I was like. I was a piano performance major, and then I was a film major. Like, I just bouncing around. And then I went and served a mission for my church. I served in la and I served in kind of ritzy areas like Beverly Hills, Bel Air, and then like, in Compton and Watts. And I remember. Yeah, exactly. And I remember coming home and, like, as a true millennial, I'm like, I'm almost embarrassed to say this. I'm, like, so contributing to the stereotype, but I just came home and I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I just want to help people, you know? And I didn't know what that meant, but I knew that it would be easier to help people if I had money. So I came back, I went to my university, and I was like, hey, I want to switch my degree to business. And they were like, you have way too many credits. Like, you got to get out, you know, you got to finish your major. And it ended up again, like just being the best thing that ever happened to me because I was like, well, I guess I got to figure out by myself. I didn't know what that meant. So I started reading like investing books and personal finance books. And you know, like, one of my favorite guys is Ramit. Yeah, like, one of my favorite authors ever is. His name is Ramit Sethi. He writes like personal finance.
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He's got a Netflix series.
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He has a Netflix series. And he's just like a step by step guy for me. I was just like that. He's like, number one, put your money here. Number two. And I was like, thank you. Like, find somebody.
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A
Tell me what's his book like? It's called how to Get Rich, right?
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Yeah. I will teach you to be rich. Great book. Recommend 10 out of 10 to everyone. He's like, so awesome. And anyway, and so. And then, you know, you like start getting into all this stuff. I'm starting getting ads and it kind of like bleeds into personal development, which bleeds into Internet marketing, you know, like all the ads. And I didn't know what was happening. I remember seriously being like, I'm like getting emails. I'm like, how are these people getting my email? And the thing that's crazy is I had to have put it in somewhere, you know, I just like, I didn't understand how it worked. I was like, this is. Or like I'd like search for something, then I'd get an ad. I'd be like, that's.
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How do they know?
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I didn't know. I didn't know about like pixels and retargeting anyway. But one thing led to another. I'm like, they're like, people are offering me courses. And again, I'm just like, I gotta make money. I just like gotta figure out how to make money. And another one of the big polls, like one of the reasons why my soul just like kind of lit on fire when I found Internet marketing was at the same time. So I grew up at the second oldest of eight. And so, yeah, so my mom was pregnant for all the 90s, so God bless her. What a. What a queen. She's awesome. But I loved It, I didn't know anything different, but I just, I truly like, somehow my parents are so cool. We ended up all being friends was amazing. So I always knew that I wanted to be a parent and. But I also knew I like felt this thing inside my soul that like wouldn't go away. That like I caught like my. I just like wanted to take over the world, you know, Like, I wanted to help and serve and contribute and grow. And so I knew that I wanted to have impact outside of my home. But I also knew I wanted to be a really present parent. And just like logistics wise, I didn't know how it looked like until I discovered the Internet. I was like, oh my gosh. So I discovered Internet marketing. And that's one of the big reasons why I cried when I read your book. Because it wasn't like, yay, Internet marketer. I'm so emotional. It was like, oh my gosh, like, if I'm not an idiot about how I build this thing, like maybe I actually could simultaneously, like I said, like, have impact inside and outside of my house. And so anyway, so again, I didn't know exactly what form that looked. Like I'm on all these different things. I'm like launching courses and like I didn't even know. I don't even have skills. Right. But I was like, I don't know. So the first course that I launched, it was two young adults on social skills, which you can, you guys can all judge whether or not selling that. I don't know. But I was like, I don't have.
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Any, I don't know anything course on social skills.
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Yeah, like so like. And like how not to be awkward. And like I just, I didn't know. I was like, but I have to like, practice. I have to like try. And I sold the course for like 127 bucks. I think I made six sales. It was, I didn't. I spent more on like softwares and learning and courses to do it. But like I got in, you know, I got in the game. And anyway, so then I discovered funnels and which I was just, it was just so systematic to my brain who just craves, you know, order and structure. And I was just like, crap. That just makes so much sense to me. Like you just put things in an order, you know, it's like a step by step process, a step by step series of webpages. And so I started to do it for myself and then all of a sudden I realized I could do it for other people. And then I discovered you had a Certification program. And I actually was working for my dad at the time. So my dad was an entrepreneur as well. And my grandpa was, like, a huge entrepreneur. And then my dad bought his company. And so that I was working anyway, like, this whole thing, whole family. I love it. I love it. Um, but. But, yeah, but my grandpa was, like, an entrepreneur in, like, the 60s and 70s, so, like, totally different game. But I learned about this program, so I told my dad. I was like, dad, you gotta read this book, right? So I, like, got it on. On that. And so I also got my dad on ramit. So we always. Whenever we'd have a business question, we'd always be like, what would Father Amit and Uncle Russell do? We'd, like, always, like, that's what we do. So my dad, like, we died in random person. He's like, what does Uncle Russell think? I was like, I don't know. Let me go check his book. Like, we didn't know you, you know, I mean, like this, like. Like 10 years ago. But my dad, who's always like. Like, even today, I was like, calling him last night, he's like, how's Uncle Russell? Like, he's doing great, dude. Like, he's so awesome.
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A
One of the funny stories this is obviously, you know this, but I was at an airport somewhere. I don't know. And usually nowadays I get spotted different places and stuff. Like, and some guy who's very tall. How tall is he?
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B
Six? Four?
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Yeah, way taller than me. Walks up and, like, taps me on the shoulder and he's like, hey, excuse me. I don't want to be awkward or weird, but my daughter's Katherine Jones or something. I was like, oh, hey, randomly. Some air. I can't remember where we were at some random airport. So anyway, that's how I met your dad. For real?
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B
Yeah. So we're so. Yeah. So the Jones family is fans of Uncle Russell. Anyway, so it was great. And so then it was actually my dad that discovered the certification program, because, of course, he got on all your email stuff. And he was like, we need this for my business. I need this for all my other businesses. Like, if I paid for you to do this, would you do it for us? And I was like, oh, my. I'm obsessed because I'm, like, working for him and I'm, like, doing my own stuff. I was like, yes. So I do it. And I ended up building funnels for them, which was awesome. And at the same time, I was getting clients on the other side. It was awesome. I ended up finding, like, Two or three people that were ads people, and they're really good at ads. I needed funnels, and I would just like build lead funnels. They just pay me 500 bucks a pop. And so like after work. And lead funnels are so easy. So after work and I was good at design, so they look good. So they would pay me. And so after work and on the weekends, I would just pound out however many leads came in. So anywhere from like 1 to 10 lead funnels a weekend because they're so easy, you know, you just like duplicate it, put it in, put on the right stuff. And so I would just like make all this money on the side. And I was like, oh, nice. And anyway, so that's kind of how I started. Then I started finding my own clients, and it was awesome. But then people started asking me, like, why do your funnels look so good? Like, blah, blah, blah, what does this look like? And again, my systems brain turned it into a framework, turned it into a course and everything from there. But. But that's how. But that's how it started is I was just desperate to find a way to be like, can I build a business that allows me the flexibility, the actual monetary gain, the influence to have impact inside and outside my house.
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It's always fascinating me how people come to our world because there's so many different ways. Like for you, is dotcom secrets then funnel some people. It's like they read expert secrets and they. That's like, that's their calling. Or everyone's got different paths in. It's always fun to see. Now you told a story the very first funnel hacking live. You, you spoke at, you told a story. I love for you to share just because it's probably a little vulnerable. Not as much nowadays, but a lot of people, when they get started in entrepreneurship, the people that are closest to them, the most important usually are the ones who reject it. Right. It could be a spouse, could be a family member, could be an ex, boyfriend, could be whatever. But I know you went through that and you tell a part of the story because I think hopefully it'll help other people who hit that guy. So many people who are entrepreneurial who fill that call to contribution, but then there's someone around them who kind of knocks them off the path, and a lot of times they don't come back from it. And you did, which is interesting.
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Oh my gosh. Yeah. With many stumbles. Yeah. So, yeah, here I am. Am. I'm in college. Right. And I'm like, I can't I cannot explain to you how X among the O's. I was like, literally, yeah, it was just so crazy. And so, yeah, I'm like, working, but, like, I'm staying up late. My friends are asking me to go out. I'm like, sorry, gotta watch a webinar. You know. Like, I was, yeah, anyway, I was just living such a different life, but I end up meeting this boy. And you know, when you meet someone, you're like, thank you. Like, you're so easy to talk to. He was like, so charismatic. He was really kind. He was just like. He was a good boy. Anyway, and so we date for 8, 9, 10 months and done. We started talking about getting married. And like, I can't tell you how happy I was. Like, I don't know if you've been dating someone. Someone starts talking about that and you're like, oh, I'm not married, just you. But we started talking about it, like, yes. Like, it felt so good. It felt so awesome. And so it was just like, really fun and exciting. And then in like our second or third conversation about it, he said to me, he's like, catherine, like, I gotta bring something up to you about getting married. And, you know, I'm like, what is. You know, I'm like, I'm thinking. He's like, venue, you know, like honeymoon. And I was like, yeah, what? Like, what is it? And he looked at me and he's, I doubt your ability to mother because of your business aspirations. And I was like, what? And at this point, I discovered funnels. I actually was on my own at this point. I wasn't working for my dad anymore, so I was on my own doing a full fledged thing, full fledged agency. I just launched a bestselling book. And it was kind of like the first time I was like, I'm doing this. Like, this is happening. Yeah, like, I'm in. And. And so he. We were kind of dating at, like, kind of my first rise, you might say, from like, I don't know what I'm doing to like, I'm actually making a full time income. And any. Sorry repeated. He's like, yeah, I doubt your ability to mother because of all of your business aspirations. And like, he said that to me and like, I couldn't, like, it was. I, like, couldn't understand it. I was like, what do you. What do you mean? And he's just like, if we're gonna do this, like, you gotta be home. Like, it's just that's. That's how I want to raise my kids. That's how I want to raise my family. And, like, all credit to him, like, his mom was gone all growing up. She was a nurse and she worked and his dad left them. So, like, I get it. Like, I get where he came from and. But the way that he expressed it was like, you're done. It's over. Like, you don't get a choice. Like, you're at home. And for me, the way that that felt was like, you're never going to expand, you're never going to grow. You don't get to develop as a human. And that doesn't mean that you don't do that with parenting. I think it's like, almost exponential or more. But it was just this fact that he was like, I'm deciding your life. And that somehow business became evil. Like, me trying to serve and contribute and make money. Like, it got painted in this. Like, you're doing a bad wrong thing. You should not want that. Like, you're not pursuing, like, the way you phrase it was like, you're not pursuing the path of God because you should just want to be with your kids, you know? And it just, like, it. It was so crazy because I was like, I'm gonna marry this kid. And to have somebody that I loved and trusted. And I'd, like, opened my heart to him in that way. It was like, oh, he doesn't get it. Like, he doesn't understand or see the situation how I understand. Because the whole reason I got into this was, again, like, impact inside and outside my home. Like, I felt the calling to do both. And anyway, needless to say, like, it just. We couldn't ever get on. He couldn't see how I saw it, and I could not see how he saw it. And it just, like, it ended up not working out. And I, like, genuinely was depressed for, like, six months. Like, I'm usually like a get back up on the horse kind of girl, and I could not get back up on the horse. I was just like. And I think so much of it was because it was, like, so identity crushing for me where I really did question, like, am I doing the wrong thing? And so much of that was because I'd never seen anybody do what I was trying to do. Like, and I know that, like, sounds so crazy because there are, like, a ton of female entrepreneurs, but, like, a lot of them. And again, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong. I think everybody's path is the smartest. Again, it's their best educated guests. They're, like, doing what they're supposed to do, but the way I wanted to do it was, like, can I build systems so that, like, a nanny isn't raising my kid, but me and my husband are raising our children? And again, I'm, like, not married. I'm kids at this point. But I just, like, felt it in my soul so much. But I started to question, like, am I wrong for wanting this? Is that bad of me? And it's so interesting because I think that men and women both think about this differently. I think just based on the industrial revolution and so many things, like gender roles, I've just become what they've become. And I think there's actually a lot of beauty in them, but I also think that they're not set. And so it was really interesting. I just felt like I want to make sure that I contribute outside in. And I want a husband that actually wants the same too. Like, I want a husband that wants to be with our kids. You know, that, like, doesn't just get to see them at these times. And these times, I'm not saying anybody's path is wrong. It was just what I wanted, but I really started to question whether it was. And so I just am, like, diving into, like, any material I can find about parenting because I started to think, like, am I seeing this wrong? Like, am I being selfish for that? Am I, like, seeing this the wrong way? Was seeing business the wrong way. I seeing parenting the wrong way? Like, is it possible to do both? So I'm diving into, like, any parenting book from, like, New York Times bestsellers to, like, the Good Word, you know, everything in between. And what I found, like, the theme over and over and over again was that the ultimate role of a parent is to nurture. And do you know what the definite. Do you know what the definition of nurture is? It's to enable and to provide opportunity. And I remember when I learned that definition, I was like, well, what in the world is entrepreneurship then? Enabling and providing opportunity? That is exactly what you're doing. That's exactly what I'm doing. And so I thought once I understood that, I was like, okay, old boyfriend, sit down. You know, Because I was like, then I could see that me being an entrepreneur, which was enabling and providing opportunity, was only refining myself for what I was doing inside the home, which was enabling and providing opportunity. And that what I was doing inside the home would one day sharpen what I was doing outside and outside, inside. And so. And all of a sudden I was just like, it's actually just the same game it's just like, where are you putting your focus? And once I learned that, then all of a sudden I was like, it makes sense that my soul is yearning to enable and provide opportunity for my children and for others. It wasn't like, oh, I want to be a business owner and I want to be a mom. I was like, I'm just actually looking at this all the wrong way. What I want to do is do what I think we've been divinely programmed to do. God is the. Is the creator of this earth, right? We Learned, like, Genesis 1. That's the first thing he teaches us, is, I, God, am your father. And so I made you, and I made the earth. Like, I'm creator. I'm a creator. I enable. I provide opportunity. And so I think as his children, right? Enable, provide opportunity. And it just, like, made so much clarity for me. So that when I found people that. That encountered me or my path of life, whether it was something I was dating or college roommate or a family member or whatever, it, like, it was just okay. It was just like, I felt grateful. I felt like God led me to truth. That, like, in my mind and heart, like, it made sense to me. It felt right in my heart. I prayed about it. Like, that is true. That is, I think, why I feel called to do all these things. And if you see it differently, that's just also okay, too. And I'm, like, here to believe that, like, God might have called you to live a different life, and that's only rad that you're following that. But for me, it just really took me to understand what it took me to was getting to the depth of the question is, why am I trying to do what I'm trying to do? Like, why am I so obsessed with being on these webinars? Why am I so obsessed with trying to learn how to make money online? And it made me kind of, like, pull back the fact that, do I really want money? And it's like, yes. And what do I really want? Status. Well, sure, but what. And then when I got to the bottom of it, I was like, what my soul yearns for, yearns for. What actually fills it is enabling, providing opportunity. And then when I could see that and even now that I am married and have a child, like, that is the game. Like, what's the balance in terms of where I put my focus? But that is the skillset. Like, that's what I'm doing. And hopefully on this podcast, hopefully, when I see my baby in an hour, right? Like, how can I Enable Lucy and provide opportunity for Lucy in the next four and a half hours before she goes to bed. That's my job. And then while I'm on this podcast, how can I enable and provide opportunity for everybody that listens to this? That's my job right now, anyway. So. Yeah, so I think it is just brutal when people don't have the same eyesight as you. But I also think it's a gift because it forces you to say, well, why do I see things so differently than you? And am I wrong in that? Or do we just have different views and it's just okay?
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A
Yeah, I think God's made a lot of different people a lot of different things. And it's like, for each of us, it's important to find, like, what we're specifically called to do, you know, and how it works. It's. My story's not nearly as cool as yours, but I kind of a similar experience where I'd run my business for, like, I don't know, 15 years. And I always seem like there's business and then there's, like, the spiritual things in life, and they are separate. And I had a big divider. I had a really good coach, and she. One time. I can't remember the conversation. I just remember she was like, you don't see it, right? I'm like, see what? She's like, the thing that you built, that is your calling from God. I was like, what are you talking about? God doesn't care if I make money or if I help people make money. She's like, and she was one of our clients. So she's like, you understand? She's like, yes, you helped me make money. But she's like, do you realize what you actually gave my husband? And I like, what? She's like, we were in bondage, and you came in, you showed us how to make money, which freed us. And now because of that, we go on mission trips. We serve people. We serve our church. We were able to donate money, all these things, because you, like, freed the shackles of this. And she's like, this is the calling. God has given you to do this to people, to do it to us. So you changed our life because of that. And I was like, I never even in my mind considered that they were together. And for me, as soon as I realized, I was like, I believe now that, like, what I'm doing. I believe what you're doing. I believe it is a calling from God. Like, if you feel that call to contribution, that's what Sharfen calls it Alex Charfen's like this call to contribution. I love the way he says it's like if you feel that call to contribution, like that is God putting these things in your heart to pull you towards something. Right? That call. And even though it doesn't make sense, it's like your role in his whole grand scheme of things is, is to do this piece right and it opens up doors for other people. So thanks for sharing that. That was not the direction I was planning on going, but I think valuable for everybody listening.
- [21:55]
B
Hang in there.
- [21:57]
A
Okay, what's up everybody? This is Russell Brunson. I've got something really cool for you today from my friend Taylor Welch. And Taylor spoke at our last funnel hacking live because I wanted him to share a really cool concept about what he calls the revolving pricing method. And today he decided to sponsor the podcast to give you guys more access to the super cool strategy that you are going to love. It's something we've been implementing into our high end coaching program as well. And it is amazing. But to kind of give you some context about this offer he's making for you guys. As you may or may not know, a few years ago JP Morgan Chase did a study and guess what they found? They found that the average small business only has about 28 days of operating expenses in reserve. That's right, less than a month of cash on hands. Now, if you're like me, the idea of your business being one bad month away from disaster is enough to make your stomach drop. Am I right? 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And let's start turning your clients into long term revenue again. That's wealthyconsultant.com secrets. Do not miss out. Hey, this is Russell Brunson and I want to jump in really quick to share with you a new assessment I found out that is insanely cool. You guys know I'm obsessed with personality profiles and assessments, but this one is different because not only does it help you to understand yourself, but more importantly, especially for us who are entrepreneurs, it helps us understand our employees, our teams, and get people sitting on the right seats in the bus so they can get more stuff done. I just had a chance to interview Patrick Lancioni, talking specifically about this new assessment they created called Working Genius. And the Working Genius is awesome. Like this test, I had actually blocked out an hour to take it because I was so excited for the new assessment and it only took me like 10 minutes or less to get it done. Yet even though it takes only 10 minutes, like you can actually apply this immediately. I took it for myself. I had my team take it. And what's cool about it is from there we figured out exactly what people's working geniuses are. And that's important because if you're building a team or a company, you got to figure out make sure that you have first off the right people, but make sure the right people are sitting in the right seats on the bus. And this is what this assessment will teach you how to do. Now, normally this assessment you can go to workinggenius.com and there's two GS in the middle, workinggenius.com but I got you a 20% discount on the assessment which is only $25. So don't stress, it's not an expensive test at all. Uh, but you get 20% discount off when you put in the keyword secrets at checkout. So go to working genius.com again, two GS working genius, two GS in the middle. Working genius.com and then use promo code secrets S E C R E T S at checkout. Get 25% off. Uh, but then go take the test again. Takes you 10 minutes. Um, but even in a 10 minute session, you will get something that is so insanely valuable to help you understand yourself, to make sure you're working in a spot that's going to be the most joy, number one. But then number two, it's going to make sure that you are with your teams getting them in the right seats as well. So anyway, I love this assessment. Go check it out@workinggenius.com and enter the promo code SECRETS for 20% discount. Take this test for yourself and for your team and I promise you it will change the working dynamics amongst everybody and help your company to grow. So let's get into again, we talked about funnel building as an opportunity and as a career because I think this is the thing that obviously what we've done in the last three days here, we've been doing this selling sales funnels challenge. Tell show that to people. This is a, this is a real thing that they can do that it can become a career for them. I think that people hear about that. Some people get excited and they run. Some people get nervous and like, how does this actually work? And there's all this fear. But I would love to kind of go through the, almost like the levels of it with you. When you first the program I first became familiar to you, you had launched your design hacking school, teaching people that level. And then there's different levels though, right? So like, like, let's talk about that first level. Like, someone wants to come in, they want to learn, like, they want to start making money. Maybe they love funnels, the idea of funnels. They want to figure it out, like, how what's that first level look like for them to be able to start an actual business doing this for other people.
- [26:06]
B
Yeah, that's what I love about this. I call it a game of like building and selling funnels, is that there are levels to it. So there's some things like brain surgery, they're not levels. Like, if you only know like part one through two, you should not operate on somebody's brain. Right? But that's a beautiful thing about funnels is that it actually really is broken up. So if you only have mastered kind of this first skill, you can still monetize it, and then you can master another skill, monetize it. And so what I learned really easily, again, my framework brain. Because what a funnel is, if anybody doesn't know, right? It's just like a series of web pages strung together and it acts as a 247 salesperson for you. And so again, they're just like baby stepping, holding the hand of somebody through the sale. And so what you want to do as a funnel builder is figure out like, okay, well, what do I need to put on page one to get them to buy? And then what do I need to get on page two to get them to upsell? What do I need value on three, blah, blah, blah. And so my systematic brain was like, okay, well what's the patterns in this and ultimately like what a funnel all comes down to is you need to have a strategy. And then so like, what actual pages am I putting together? Almost like an instruction sheet. And then you need to have the assets. So like, what are the words? Like, what actually am I going to type on the pages? Do I need a video on there? Do I need images? So you need all, like the materials and then you actually need to assemble them all together. Like design. I always say, like building a funnels, like IKEA furniture. Like, you need a set of instructions and you need all the misassembled pieces, like video ads or like screws and wood. And then you actually need to put it together so it looks into something good. And I think for so long the skill was taught of like, you need to be a master at strategy and you need to be a master at assets and a master at design, which.
- [27:33]
A
Is hard to do.
- [27:34]
B
Oh, well, it just takes a while. It just takes a second, right? And especially if you're like doing it on your own, right? And don't have you as a coach. But like, it can just take a second. And people are like, yeah, but maybe it's not. But I always like to go back to Ikea. Seriously. Imagine that somebody comes to you and is like, hey, like, design a set of furniture from scratch. And then like, I not only want you to like, build out the instructions ready to do it, but I want you to like, somehow cut the wood in a way that can like get together and then go build it. Like, I'm like, I don't even know what you're talking about, right? But if somebody handed me a piece of IKEA furniture in a box with.
- [28:03]
A
Instructions in ikea, they bought it. They showed up at the house like.
- [28:06]
B
And they're like, catherine, put this together. I don't need. I really don't need that much skill to do it. And that's actually the beauty of funnel building is like, it's such an easy to entry market because most funnel. Because there's opportunity like that with the design game. So a lot of people, like, you're doing a ton of the educational work yourself to like, get people on board. This is what a funnel is. Your business needs a funnel. Funnel, funnel, funnel. So people go and build a funnel and they realize they don't know how to build a funnel. And they also really don't care to build a funnel. They're like, oh, like, I want to sell online dance classes, like, to couples. And they're like, I could care less about Learning marketing. I just want to find clients to sell my actual thing to. So they went through and tried to build a funnel. So they got a strategy. They like figured out some sort of strategy. They have like a video. They have even words, right. But like, they put it together all in the wrong order on the. Like, it's not optimal.
- [28:50]
A
It looks ugly.
- [28:51]
B
Exactly. So what is so awesome is that there's so many people out there who have step one and two pretty locked down. And oftentimes they can do that because they are an expert in their actual craft, right? Like, I know how to talk about ballroom dancing for couples because I've been teaching ballroom dancing for couples for 20 years, right? Like they know how to talk about. So they have. They're pretty close on the strategy if they haven't nailed it already. And then they're really good at their assets, but they go to actually build it in the software and they either logistically don't know how to use the software or they build in. It's but ugly or I shouldn't say. But you know what I'm saying? It's so ugly. So people, in case you're wondering, there's a study from Stanford and Google people determine the credibility of your website in 0.05 seconds. And over 90% of what you're judging is your design. So you could have the most incredible offer in the world. But if people don't stay on your site long enough to actually see what you're selling, you lost the game. So not only does your site need to look good, it needs to be optimized as well. So, like, it's one thing to have it look good, but it needs to look good in the way that people want it to look good. Like a funnel that's selling to ballroom dances. Ballroom dancer for couples should be designed differently than if you're selling a fitness program for mom. Then should be designed differently if you're selling a fitness program for college boys. Like, just think about how different a fitness page for a mom and a fitness page for college boys. They should look different. The design should be different anyway. And so, but that's what I love is that like the market, like there's such high demand for this skill because every funnel, every product need, every product needs a funnel, but there's also such demand for this lowest, like, lowest hanging fruit of just funnel design work. Because a lot of people have tried themselves to build a website to build a funnel. And like, it's not making money.
- [30:25]
A
They have the assets, they know what they want to do.
- [30:27]
B
They know they want a funnel, but they like can't get it. And that's where I think this like really low hanging fruit of funnel design, the skill that doesn't take long to learn if you know the right way to do it, is so amazing because you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just go build Ikea furniture. It's like, oh, you put together the bookshelf wrong. Let's unscrew the bolts and make sure we put it in the right order. And there you go. Your bookshelf or funnel actually works now.
- [30:49]
A
So a lot of people might be hearing this. Well, that's great, Catherine, but I'm not a designer. And I think about this like when I launched clickfunnels initially, I'm like, how do I. Because for me it was tough because I'm like, there's a dozen different ways to do funnels or more, right? There's, there's a bunch of things I'm like, how do I. I can't teach somebody here's 12 ways to build a funnel. And I hope they're gonna figure it out and understand it. And like, you know, and so for me, it was like the concept I came out was like funnel hacking. So find a funnel. You like, you want to sell an ebook, find some selling ebook and then funnel hack it, right? Buy all the pages and that's the strategy. Just model their strategy. That's what I was trying to like show people. Or you want to launch a book or you want to launch a webinar, like go and like funnel hack someone. Look at the strategy that gives you the blueprint, you know the strategy, and then you can go build it. And then. So I called it funnel hacking. Obviously, when you came with yours, you called it design hacking. So for someone who's not a designer, how do they use design hacking to be able to quickly like, oh, I'm going to build, like to know what to build and actually assemble the thing correctly versus, like just making another worse version with the person already tried.
- [31:41]
B
Yeah, well, and maybe if I can, if I can rewind in the story really quickly, like I was saying, like, I was just making lead funnels, like all the time. But at the beginning they weren't actually converting. And it was because they were so ugly. Like, they just really were. And that's when I came across that study that was people determine the credibility. And I was like, dang it, you know, like, and I honestly was embarrassed. I was like, that's not look good. I do not want my name associated with that. So I go to go figure out, like, how do I design? And everybody was like, go back to design school. Go learn Photoshop. You need to learn coding. And I never want it. Like, actually, it's comical to me that I have made a name for myself in the funnel space as a design girl, because I'm not a design girl. I just wanted my crap to work. Like, I'm just, like, I'm just trying to have impact inside my home and outside my home. I'm trying to build a business like, of kids one day and like, dang it, you know? And so everyone's telling me to go learn all this design, and I was just too stubborn to do it. And so I was like, there's gotta be a way to not do that. And so that's kind of what led me to this hacking idea. I'd been introduced to you by you. And hacking just means modeling. Like, find the patterns and then model those in your own. And that's when I was like, I don't need to be a designer. What I actually need to do is just be really exceptional at finding the patterns that are working. And so for me, like, it really as simple as comes down to, like, okay, if I'm like, building a funnel for the couple that. Or for the person that sells ballroom dancing, right? Like, I'm gonna go online and I'm gonna see. I'm gonna go try to find other people that are either selling ballroom dancing or are selling like, like, like fitness classes over zoom or anything. Like, any, like, live service right over. Over the Internet and just see, like, what their funnels have. Like, what. What patterns am I seeing with the fonts they're using? What patterns am I seeing with, like, the hero section? Like, do they have a big picture of the. The leader in the front? Do they have a huge headline? Like, what is the color scheme? It's crazy. Sometimes, like, there's some niches. Sometimes it's like, wow, yellow's the color. And like a dark yellow. You're, like, crazy. Everyone's using yellow, but you're like, great. I mean, like.
- [33:27]
A
And it's.
- [33:27]
B
Yeah. And that was one thing too. Because I wasn't trying to be a designer. I just really wanted it to work that, like, I didn't care in the beginning to be like, oh, well, like, how do I know that this works? Or blah, blah. I just kind of assumed, like, okay, if this person has money enough to do ad spend, which I know that they do, because their pages are like, ranking on Google or I'm seeing them on Facebook, then like, they must know something more than me because I'm not paying for ad spend at the time, right? So I'd be like, great. Like, they are steps ahead of me in their business. They're actually betting money on this page that it works because I can see it sponsored on Google or a Facebook ad or whatever. So I'm going to trust those pages and use those as a model. And so that's just seriously what I did. Like, I didn't try to be a designer. I didn't try to be like, okay, let's come up with this like, cool concept idea. Which I do. I do have to say, like, I meet designers and I'm like, I wish I had your skills, but I don't like anything that looks good that you've ever seen me produce. Whether it's a funnel or slide deck or anything is literally like, for these slides that I just did, I just literally went to your selling online event. I was like, hey, how do you do this pitch slide? I said, nice, love it. And I just like, okay. I like, what is working. Go on, put it in there. Anyways. And so that's how it worked. And so it really is really interesting. I even think with like the game of marketing, like sometimes I think marketing or I'm a marketer can feel like so magic almost. And it's really just an organization problem. Marketing is all organization. Like, can you get the right pieces in the right place? And so for this term, like funnel hacking, which is finding the patterns and modeling, or design finding the design patterns and modeling, it's just organizing. Like, can I find the patterns and can I put those patterns in the same place in my stuff and move on? And so in that way I was able to, you know, quote, unquote, hack the design system. And that's how. And that's how it started. And so I think for anybody, like, oh, I'm not a designer, welcome to the club.
- [35:05]
A
I remember when we first launched ClickFunnels, I was trying to figure out a way to promote it. And so I remember Lewis Howes at the time, he had hired Digital Telephony to do his landing page. I know that because I bought a company from Digital Telephony. So they're the amazing designing team, like, insane. And they charge. We tried to hire them one time. They charge for like a blog design. It was like, I think it was like $70,000 for a site or if you wanted a full branding package, 150,000 and Lewis had paid it. And so I remember one of my first things I did when we're launching clickfunnels is like, hey, check out. Here's Lewis's $75,000 site design. I'm gonna show you guys I can build. I open my monitor left hand side. I had Lewis's right hand side clickfunnels, and I literally just went element by element. And I just, like, design hacked, right? I was like, okay, took his logo, put it right here, color background, and I did. Within, like, 15 minutes, I'd replicated his $75,000 funnel design. And it was insane. It looked amazing. It was look like you wouldn't have been able to tell that which one's Lewis's and which one's mine, right? And that's what you're talking about. Like, you can go and find the greatest designers in the world. You look at what they do, and then you're modeling them, right?
- [36:07]
B
Yeah. And that's the thing that I always find amazing, too. And with design hacking, right, Is like, we're actually not trying to be good designers. What we're trying to do is model or design in a way that converts. So sometimes, like, I'll go through the process and I have to check myself. Like, so interesting, even, like, so we did the selling this selling funnels challenge, and then we have a certification program, right, that, like, teaches people how to do it. And when I was doing the training for the certification program, I was doing it. I, like, made a funnel for one of my neighbors because I was like, brand new biz. Like, let's see. And one of my neighbors who's trying to sell, like, her online coaching services. So I literally go and I, like, show everybody, like, here's how you find the funnels that are working. Like, here's how you know the funnels to. Or the pages to actually take patterns from. So I'm taking patterns from it. I'm, like, writing it all down, and then I start to design it. And I was like, I don't like how that looks. I'm going to tweak it. And then I, like, even myself, I was like, actually, it doesn't matter what I think looks good. It's what the market decided. And so I'd, like, go back and I'd be like, okay, great learning. But it's, like, amazing because sometimes we catch ourselves. We're like, mmm, I don't like how that looks. And there's a difference between, like, oh, I'm designing for things to look pretty, because who cares? If your thing looks pretty, if it doesn't make you any money. So it's really interesting. Sometimes you'll see like in the supplement world, like especially selling to old, I shouldn't say older people. People that are older than me, 60, I'm getting older. Well, so am I. I know, literally. Oh my gosh. But if you're selling to older people, like, if you have a really sleek design, it's really interesting. It converts worse because it's overwhelming. Whereas if you have like a website that kind of looks like it's from the early 2000s, it's it. And it, to me, it like hurts me, like, because I'm like, ah, it's so ugly. But I think that's the beautiful thing about this concept of funnel hacking or design hacking is you're just mock if the true objective at the end of the day is cash flow and sales. And so what you want to do is just find the patterns and you kind of have to put aside what you care about how it looks because again, you're trying to optimize it for the avatar that's going to come through.
- [37:56]
A
Reminds me I had a supplement for diabetic neuropathy about the time we were launching Clickfunnels and that same thing. We made the sickest, coolest site and did not convert. And then we went in our avatar, they're older, 70s, 80s, 90s, years old and they didn't want to watch videos. We had this amazing best sales videos ever we made and we shipped to this long form thing with no images. It looked like it was built in, front page and crushed. It's just like crazy. That's what they responded to. But I, you know, me trying to be a designer and a funnel builder, all this stuff and I messed it up till we went reverted back to what that market and came back to doing a little research and finding some things.
- [38:31]
B
Yeah, but it goes back to, I think this concept of like enabling and providing opportunity which like you have to get yourself out of the way to be like, okay, like my main objective is to help somebody who's in pain to not be in pain. And what you have to do is you have to get the person in pain to actually listen to you. And so like if you're marketing to Gen Z's, you got to figure out how to get them to pay attention to. If you're marketing to boomers, you got to figure out how to get them to listen to you. And I just think it's actually, it's just amazing. Like I think to come into the game at this point. I mean like you were one of the late stage pioneers of like this Internet marketing. Right. Where you kind of took us from like physical marketing. Right. Like mail. I can't. What's it called? Direct response. Yeah, I can't remember. I don't even. I never knew I didn't do it to like Internet Internet marketing. But that's why I just think we're so lucky because like you're never having to reinvent the wheel. There's so many people out there that are doing it good that you can model it and there's also so many people out there doing it bad that you have so much opportunity. Like, yes, it's so awesome.
- [39:30]
A
You just have basic understanding. Yeah, I wasn't add one thing because a lot of people whenever I talk about stuff, they always like, well, I can't find. How do you find these funnels? I don't even know where they're at. And so I'm going to show them. I'm telling my secret. Maybe yours is similar.
- [39:40]
B
I love it.
- [39:41]
A
But when I know. And right now we just built a funnel hacking lab. You saw, we launched a new plugin called Barnum pt, which is a free plugin for funnel hacking. You go funnel hack screenshots and pictures. So like I'm the process right now if I'm rebuilding my swipe file. So I'm funnel hacking. I'm buying everyone's product just like. But I'm trying to find different markets. So for me, for example, I was like, okay, I want to go see everyone's got a green drink offer. So first thing I did, I grabbed my phone and I just start talking by it. Because everyone knows this is a thing now, right? Like, so I was like, green drink. I want a healthy green drink. I'm looking for some green drink. I want something that's going to be healthy. Red drink, green drink. And I start thinking, I start talking to my phone and all of a sudden ads start showing up. And then I go to Facebook and I start searching for a whole bunch of things and I go to Google, I search, go to Instagram, I search. And then I just, I'm done. And over the next two weeks, I'm going to get hit with 500,000 ads, emails and they pop up. I click on every single ad, go to the page, open up, Barn, NPT screenshot. Screenshot. Every single page in the funnel, right? If I wanted to do baby diapers, I would go and I would start saying baby diapers. And Like I say next to my phone, type it four or five places and then I sit back and they just all start coming to you.
- [40:40]
B
Yeah.
- [40:40]
A
Is this similar for you?
- [40:41]
B
Yeah, I just, I just Google search as if I am the person trying to buy the product. And so like, same thing where it takes you? Yes, exact. And so you go. And I click on everything and I do it. And then what I love about what your process is too, is oftentimes, like, you get the best sample size if you wait for a few days, because people are going to retarget you. People are going to do this. We were just talking with our friend Greg who does the program with us. He's like, I click on every single ad. And in my Instagram I have folders for. These are great Internet marketing ads. And these are great. This. And this is an amazing funnel. It's so cool. But it just really is amazing if you understand the process for how to find the highest converting items to incorporate into your funnels. When you understand how it works, it's just there. You just get to actually just take.
- [41:24]
A
It and you start clicking on things. Then Facebook and Instagram will the algorithm get trained and they're like, oh, this person looking for that stuff. And all the other companies couldn't find. Just start showing it magically.
- [41:32]
B
And it is amazing.
- [41:33]
A
Fascinating thing. I don't know if you've ever done this, but one time I grabbed my wife's phone, I thought it was mine. I opened it up and opened up Facebook and I was like, in this whole new world, this whole new land.
- [41:40]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [41:41]
A
I was like, what is this? And I was like, oh, this is what Facebook looks like for my wife because she's searching for way different things than I am. I was like, this is a whole different experience. It was so cool because I saw these other funnels that never even knew existed, right?
- [41:51]
B
Yeah, well, like my parents. So my Gen Z, my Gen Z siblings, they're all about TikTok. But my parents are also on TikTok. I love it. But they also will be like, oh, yeah. Like, they'll be like, you're on the wrong side of TikTok. Because my mom's on TikTok for gardening videos, crochet videos. She has workout, like stay flexible videos. Right? Because she's just turned 60 this year. Like, how to keep your mobility. My dad is like so funny. He loves like back craft videos and. But he also loves like Napoleon Hill stuff and like business stuff. And then my Gen Z siblings are like Ariana Grande, you know, Like Taylor Slut. Not even. That's probably two Millennial. I don't even know what they're listening to. But like, it's so interesting when it's called like, oh, like you're on the other side of TikTok is on this. And, and in one way it's actually amazing, right? Like, that the algorithm just conforms to what you want. In some ways. I think there can be some negative side effects to that in the world. But. But from a marketing standpoint, it is awesome because you basically have, it's like a, it's a search engine tool specifically for products that are marketing. And so you're like, oh, again, if they have money to run ads, they've probably got there. It's, it's not. Nothing happening, you know, and so it's an amazing thing to model.
- [42:55]
A
So cool. All right, so that's tier number one. So tier number one, somebody learns the basics of design, how to, how to find those things, look for the things, and then now they can go and start getting clients selling design. So what are the price points? If someone's just doing the design, what could they sell their design services for?
- [43:09]
B
Totally. It's usually anywhere from three to four figures per build. And typically, the way that I have people do it, because again, you're not building the strategy. You're not like building assets. It's literally like reorganization. It's typically just like a flat rate per page. And so the more you build and the more you have a portfolio to show, the higher you can do it. And so I would say, on average, once people are kind of getting into it, you're making anywhere from two grand to five to six grand per build. Right. Like, cool. Awesome. Because again, you're taking other stuff, redesigning, taking all their stuff, redesign, taking all this stuff, redesigning it. And so some people, seriously, like, I mean, before we joined forces, that was all I ever told people how to do was like design. And they built this full on business. They, they didn't even like, have to read your books, which I always told them to, don't worry. But they didn't even have to. Right, because like, we're not focusing on strategy. We're not focusing.
- [43:58]
A
The person's coming to them. I need a book funnel. I tried. It's not working. You're like, cool, let me fix it. Or I'm, I'm trying to webinar funnel. It's not working. Yeah, you know, as opposed to like, what should I, what should I build? Right, yeah, exactly.
- [44:09]
B
Because. Yeah, because they would come to them and the target audience would always be like, I know exactly what I'm trying to build, I know exactly what product I'm trying to build, blah, blah, blah. Whereas when you start to go to this next level, which is, hey, I'm gonna get really good at strategy, which is essentially, again, thinking of Ikea, I'm like really good at figuring out which funnel you need. So somebody comes to you and they're like, I want to sell. I like, I'm an online, I will just keep going this example, right? I teach bottom dancing to couples and I want to take it online. And most times that's like all somebody, they have no idea what a funnel is or if they do, they don't know which funnel type to build. That's when you can come in. And when you start to know strategy, then you can start to charge a lot higher dollar because then you also know how to start creating their assets. You know how to start building their copy, you know what video scripts to make them like, it becomes really, really exciting. And so at that point, when you master that, you go from three to four figures per build to four to five figures per build. Because again, and some people, I think money is always tricky for people. Everybody comes with money baggage, good, bad and ugly, you know, and sometimes selling can feel really hard and all these different things. But the thing that I love and why I don't feel any hesitancy in charging people multiple five figures for a funnel build for me now, right, Is because I do understand strategy, I do understand asset creation. I'm really good at design, so I know that what I'm building them is not just like, oh, like here's some webpages that will never do anything. It's, oh, I just built you a selling machine. I built you something that's going to make you money. And when you can build something that makes people money, you can always charge people money. Like, you always have a skill set that people will pay money for. So really like phase one and what's so amazing about this is again is like the, like the road to entry is just so easy. You can start making money by just designing, right? Getting things in the right places. And then when you are like, oh, I want to start making higher dollar for this, Learn the strategy, learn the assets, put it all together, you start making your custom furniture, right? And you can go from there and turn into a full blown career. And then this is something that I love too, because people are like, okay, then the game's over and it's like, oh, no, you only just began. Because then what you can do is you can optimize them. Because, like, a true funnel, right? Like, if you have a funnel up, like, the best funnels are living, breathing, optimized, changing. Right. Like, you have. You have a hundred people go, or 500 people go through the funnel. And like, you. You should be smarter than when it started. And so you take what you learned, like, oh, like, tweak, tweak. Exactly. And then 500 people more go through, and you tweak and. 500. And so then you can start to charge even more in terms of like, oh, like, you can pay me anywhere from a thousand to five thousand bucks a month to just like, keep optimizing your funnel.
- [46:31]
A
There's a company we use off and on, and it's 25 grand a month, and they just log into your clickfunnels account, and then they just tweak stuff. All the traffic's coming in, and they sit and tweak stuff and tweak stuff. And it's called CRO. Excuse me? It's called CRO because it sounds fancy. Conversion Rate optimization.
- [46:46]
B
Yeah.
- [46:46]
A
And it's just. It's being a funnel builder who's just like, okay, let's test five different ideas today. Let's move the headline here. Let's move the button. Let's try different things. And. And you're tweaking to see what. What's the thing. And it's worth it for someone like me or someone who's getting a lot of traffic, because let's say I'm getting. Let's say I'm getting a hundred thousand visitors a month to a site, right. And I'm converting 3% of those. So I should have picked. What's the math in that? That. A hundred thousand? Three percent. Three thousand, right.
- [47:09]
B
Sure. Yes.
- [47:09]
A
Or 300. Anyway, whatever that is.
- [47:11]
B
Right.
- [47:11]
A
I go from a 3% conversion to a 5%, that seems like, oh, you increase.
- [47:15]
B
But when you have that much volume.
- [47:16]
A
Yeah. It becomes like, they could add an extra million dollars a month. Someone's bottom line. Like, that's the reality. So someone will pay again, $25,000 or more just to sit there and just tweak your page and just see what's gonna.
- [47:25]
B
Well, I remember I saw a training video of yours once, and you actually showed, like, a Google spreadsheet of, like. Of a video that had. Yeah. A guy that somebody had sent you. And it was like, okay, like. Like, here's like, the 40 active tests we have right now, which I was like, that's the hottest thing I've ever seen. I love that you have 40 funnels to test on, like, active funnels. And that was like, not even all them, but you're like, okay, here's the test. And he just like. And he had the rose, like, highlighted green, yellow, or red. And it was like, green if that test worked, yellow. If it's like, like, we need to run a little bit more traffic to decide, like, it's still cooking. And then red. It was like, oh, that test didn't work. And it was so, like, amazing to me. Again, like, seeing the volume. And that's the thing too, like, whether you have a hundred thousand visitors or even a thousand visitors like it, like. And so it was so cool to be like, oh, I remember it was like, such a small thing. It was like, oh, we, like, increased the conversion to like a 6% to a 6.8. And then the next column on it was like, how much a year revenue did that add? And it was like $217,000 because it went from 6 to 6.8. I was like, dang, I freaking love this game. But it's just a game, right? And I think it can fill overwhelming when you're like, oh, tweak the headline. Do this. It can feel, like, random and sporadic, but there just, like, there is patterns with design and patterns with assets and patterns with strategy. There's patterns with optimization, where it's like, okay, we know that this is the first thing we test, and then if that works, great. If it doesn't work, this is what we do next. Or if it works great, then we'll also see if the next thing works, the next thing works. But that's just what my soul loves about this game, is that everything is a process. And it's just like, start here, move forward, start here, move forward, start here, troubleshoot, move forward. Anyways, that's what I love too, because then you can start charging recurring. And then if you love it and you can get smart about it, knowing that funnels and the game is all broken up, you're like, oh, I need strategy, I need assets, I need design, I need optimization. Like, if you want to really blow it up, you can start to build an agency where rather than you wearing all those hats, you can be like, okay, like, I actually hate the design part. I'm gonna throw somebody on design. Awesome. I hate the strategy part of it's Drummond strategy, but I love copy or whatever. And then all of a sudden, you can increase the amount of clients and so that retainer just goes up and up and up. So you're not just making three to four figures a build, you're making three to four figures per month per client. Right. Like, and it just actually becomes like a living, breathing business.
- [49:33]
A
Yes, it's really cool. And what's interesting is I've seen people who go to build an agency initially they find those core people and they're running through client accounts and then eventually they shift from like, I'm just going to charge somebody to do this thing to like, I want equity in a company. I showed a video, the challenge of Noah lenz, who's a 14 year old kid who takes equity for every funnel he builds. There's equity there, right? And then later it's like when you have your own ideas, your own project or things you want, then you can plug it into that same system.
- [49:59]
B
That's what I. Look, I'm telling you what, like sometimes I can't believe it. I tell, I say this to my husband all the time. It's like, is a crazy world we live in that like I can just have an idea. Especially when you sell education products. Like, because all education products are, is somebody's figured out the pattern to something and then you sell the pattern like that's it, right? So like I sell products on design. It's because I figured out the patterns, right? Like I sell products on like partnership traffic. It's because I figured out the patterns. But like it's amazing. It's just like ideas that you have and you fare the patterns. I can get results and then it's just amazing. I'm like, I can just film a video and like, it's almost like I'm like paint like coloring a page online and then you make money. I'm like, it's crazy, it's amazing. But the thing that is amazing, it's not unethical, it's just like it really, it really is just like the ease right now of if you understand the game, taking product to market and then market to money in your bank account can be really fast.
- [50:51]
A
And the first time is always the hardest, right? But as soon as you get through the like I tell people the very first time they're building a funnel for themselves or someone else. Like you do the whole process and then after you've done it once, like, oh, I know all the, like the hardest funnel I've ever built was my potato gun funnel because I had to learn how to like this back in the day. Like how do you set up a Domain? How do you point it to your web host? How do you do ft?
- [51:08]
B
I bet that was terrible because I don't even like doing that now.
- [51:10]
A
Yeah, it was so many steps. It took me, like, six months just to figure out how to get an image online, and then, like, how to get front page to connect to this. It was like this huge thing, and I finally got it, and I did all the work, and I had to figure out how to write copy and how do you get images and how do you hook it to an order form, right? All the things. It was a nightmare, right? Clickfunnels makes it way easier now. But then it was a nightmare. But as soon as I did it once all the way, and I bought my first ads, my paper or my Google pay per click pushed on my potato DVD and was working. And then I was just like, oh, I know how to do it. And then next time I was like, okay, step number one, boom. And then second funnel took me like a week and the next funnel, and it started getting really, really fast. And so it's like just getting. Getting the process down once. I was gonna say one thing, though. We talk about, like, you know, initially, usually it's you doing all these pieces, right? You're learning. Then eventually you start. You start building a team or agency. And I look at when you said that, I was thinking about my company. Like, clickfunnels is just basically that, like, there's me. I like the strategy. So I'm like, oh, strategy right underneath me. Then there's Morag. So I tell Morag, who's our project manager, Morag, here's the strategy. She's like, cool, she's got it. And then she goes. And we've got, and I think the best designer on the planet, Jake. Leslie. Jake. And he's got a team of three or four designers. They go and they design the thing, right? And then Nick is my funnel builder. He goes and connects all the things. Put it together. Heath is my copywriter. Heath goes and writes all the copy. And then. And then there's a couple of people, like, that's all we've done. I've got four or five people who are insanely good at all the different pieces. And then I have an idea, and then we go through, and then we launch. And then people, how do you launch so many funnels so often? It's like, I got the best team in the world. Like, we could do agency work, but at this point, I. I make more do my own thing, so I'll do my own Work? Yeah.
- [52:39]
B
You have your own internal agency. You're the only client I know. It's really fun. When we started working on projects together, it was really, it was really fun to kind of see your internal processes because I'm like, oh yeah, like my agency does that. His agency does this. It's like fun to see. But the thing that I loved was you just have like a, it's just like a submit form and it's just a magic form. Anything you want. Like if you want a funnel, a video, a design, anything magic goes on. Literally. Like I kept asking questions because I'd be like, okay. Because again, for my agency, I'm like, I know I wear this hat, but like this person wears this, this. I'm like, who do I talk to? And they're like, just put in the form. Just put it in the form and it comes right out. And if you're like, okay, we need video for this, who do we ask? Put it in the form. I'm like, great. And then you're like, but it's so beautiful. It's like, shows you how an agency can work. Like, you genuinely are so removed from the entire process and. But I think the beautiful thing about it is you're in your right, you're wearing the right hat. And like for me, like, I kind of like to be involved in the process. So I still want to wear this hat and this hat and anyway. But I just think that's the beautiful thing too is you can, it's just a lever you can pull. Like if you only want to do this on the weekends or before work or while your kids are napping because there's low hanging fruit, you can still make money and it doesn't require a lot of time. Like, you can still play. Whereas if you want to make this a full blown career where you're like, oh, I'm here and I'm managing all these people, like you can have a million dollar a year agency. And anyway, that's just what I love. Again, the game is accessible to anyone if you understand the patterns involved so that you can reach the appropriate level of fruit. I guess you could say.
- [54:10]
A
So much fun. Hey, it's Russell Brunson. And if you're anything like me, you understand that in business, time isn't just money, it's everything. When you're trying to build your dream team, the last thing you want to do is waste time sorting through a mountain of resumes. But what if I told you there's a smarter way instead of searching for candidates you can match with them instantly, thanks to Indeed. Indeed is the hiring platform you absolutely need in your corner. We're Talking about over 350 million visits each month from all around the world. That's a huge pool of potential talent. And here's the best part. Their matching engine connects you with the right candidate in no time. Imagine skipping the busy work and going straight to the people who fit your job description like a glove. Sounds like a dream, right? And it's not just about saving time. It's about getting results that matter. In fact, 93% of employees say Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites. And that's pretty incredible. And I want to tell you, I've been through the hiring process myself. There were times it was slow and frustrating, and I wish I'd known about Indeed back then. It would have made everything so much easier. But here's where it gets even better. Indeed is constantly learning and improving with over 140 million qualifications and preferences feeding their matching engine every day. The more you use it, the better it gets. It's like having a personal hiring assistant who's always on top of things, making sure you get the best of the best. So don't wait around. Join the 3.5 million businesses worldwide. They're already using Indeed to find top talent fast. And here's something special just for the listeners of the Marketing Secret show. You can get a $75 sponsored job credit to boost your job's visibility at Indeed.com clicks. Just head over to Indeed.com clicks right now and let them know you heard about it on this podcast. Trust me, you're not going to regret it. Terms and conditions may apply. Need to hire? Then you need Indeed. What's up, everyone? This is Russell. And fall is officially in the air, which means crisp mornings, pumpkin flavored everything. And my favorite part is switching out the shorts and T shirts for these cooler weather essentials. Right now, I'm all about finding the perfect cozy cashmere sweater and a sharp leather jacket. And for that, I've got one word for you. Quince. Quince offers affordable, high quality essentials that belong in every wardrobe, whether you're upgrading for the season or just adding some timeless staples. Think luxurious Mongolian cashmere sweaters starting at just $60. Yes, you heard me right. I know that because I literally just bought two. And pants that are so comfortable you'll want to wear them everywhere. What I love most about Quintessential is how they cut out the middlemen. They work directly with responsible factories using premium materials which means you get incredible pieces for 50 to 80% less than other luxury brands. Let me tell you, now that I'm officially wearing some of their gear, it feels every bit as high end as the designer stuff, but at a fraction of the price. In fact, that sweater I told you about earlier that I snagged, it's super soft, it fits perfectly. It looks like I paid hundreds of dollars, but nope, it was just 60 bucks. If you're ready to upgrade your fall wardrobe without breaking the bank, head over to quince.com clicks for free shipping and 365 day return policy. That's Q U I N C E dot com clicks. Seriously, free shipping and a whole year to return. You've got nothing to lose and a whole bunch of really cool cashmere to gain. So go treat yourself to some wardrobe upgrades today@quince.com clicks. So again, this is like I think the coolest career side hustle, whatever it might be, we had someone on the first VIP day who was like, I signed up for this because I want to do this as a side hustle. Like I think this could be my career. Like, yes, exactly.
- [57:19]
B
Like, yes, yes.
- [57:20]
A
If you can make 500 bucks on a weekend, you could make 500 bucks a day. If you know or whatever the numbers are. Like, if you just, if you put the energy and effort into it. Okay, the next set of things I want to ask you about around this because I know that there's the two sides of it, right? Like can I do the actual funnels? The second is like, how do I find people to be clients? Like, and so I love your ideas on. And we don't have to go super deep, but some ideas, like how can someone find clients who are looking for the stuff stuff so they can take those two things and match them together.
- [57:47]
B
Yeah. And I just have to say, like, for all of my analytical, logical friends who are like me, like, this is the scariest part, but it's only scary again when you don't understand the pattern. And for me, like whenever I feel afraid about something because it's like, oh, I don't know the plan. I like don't know how I'm going to do it. But once you're like, oh, that's how it works, then it's like, oh, I'll just, it's just a number. Follow the steps. And so for me, when I was like, okay, well what actually is selling? Like, because I think selling can get a bad rap because people are slimy about it. Right? Like they trick you into buying something that you don't want or they convince you that you have a problem that you don't like. It can get really slimy really fast. But when I think selling is done right, it means that somebody has a pain and you provide the remedy. And both parties are happy at the end because the person with pain no longer has pain and the person with the remedy got compensated. Right. And so for me, when I'm a funnel builder, right, like what, what does a, what does a funnel builder do? They build sales funnel funnels that bring sales. So when I'm looking, that's the remedy, I bring sales. So when I'm looking for clients, I'm. What I'm actually doing is I'm looking for somebody in pain. And what is the specific pain I'm looking for? I'm looking for somebody that needs sales. And the fun part is that that's everybody in business.
- [58:54]
A
Is there any company that doesn't need more sales?
- [58:55]
B
Exactly. But the reality is that also everybody needs food, but depending on when you catch them in the day, somebody needs food more than other people need food, right? So like, if you haven't eaten for 24 hours, that person is in a lot more pain than somebody who's like, well, yeah, I need food later, but I just had breakfast, right? Like, and so what I like to do is like, yes, every business needs more sales, but there are some people that are in more pain than others. And the most beautiful thing is that people are typically loud about their pain and they gather. Like it's like scientifically proven that people with common interests and common pain gather together. And like not just on person, but primarily online. And so like you, for example, you're like an amazing person that has gathered people of similar interests and therefore produce similar pains, right? Then you're like, build funnels, online business, blah, blah. But because you're new and they don't know, right? It's like, oh, I built a funnel. But like it didn't, it didn't like pan out the way that I want. Cause they didn't understand the strategy or the asset or whatever. And so I like to do is I literally just like go to, like to go to the clickfunnels group or like online business groups or Internet marketing groups, whether on Facebook or I follow like YouTube, people look for people in the comments or Instagram or whatever, but I literally just go and people will ask questions all the time. Like literally we just did this three day selling challenge. Every example I gave was an example that happened from the day or the day before, Like, I just literally went to the group and I said, oh, look it, here's a person in pain. Like, look at the timestamp. It happened four hours ago, right? Or like, oh, look at this, happened this morning. It happened at 827. Like, and literally like what pain looks like is people are saying like, hey, this funnel is, I'm trying to get this funnel working, it's not working. Or I want to sell this product but I don't know how to start or blah, blah, right? And all of a sudden you're just looking, you're like, like, ding, ding, ding. That is a person in the pain that I can solve. Like, that's a person that needs more sales. And I know I have the skillset to build something that can bring them sales. And so, and so when I think about it that way, just like a very logical approach, it's not like, ooh, like I gotta go find somebody to give me money, blah, blah, it's like, no, I'm just gonna go find somebody in pain and I'm gonna be a homie about it. And I'm not gonna let them like wither on the side of the road. I know how to help them, so I'm gonna help them. And that can become the game. And so it really becomes, I think so often we think like, well, what do I say in the sales pitch? How does it work? And yes, there's like an art and a science to selling, but at the end of the day, you're just a person helping a person. And so like going into the comments and saying like, hey, you need help. I know exactly what you need. I'm an expert funnel builder. Do you want to hop on a 15 minute call or hey, I'm going to slide into your DMs, I'm in chat, sometimes I don't even get on a call with them. I'm like, let me just help you in the DMs. We can just take care of this right now. But what I like to always say to my students is this concept, be 10% better. You don't have to be amazingly better, but be 10% better. So if, let's say that there's four people bidding for the attention of this person that needs, needs help with their funnel. What happens if you send a video, like just like a selfie video that's 15 seconds long rather than like, hey, so what do you need help with, right? Like if you're like like, hey, Sally, I saw your post. I'm Katherine, like so excited for you. You're selling this product. Awesome. It seems like you're kind of having a little bit of like a little bit of trouble. I kind of checked out your stuff. I actually have a really clear idea of what you might need to do. Looking forward. Do you want to hop on a call right now? And then all of a sudden she sees that I'm not going to like abduct her. No stranger danger, right? Like I'm normal. I like invested in her stuff and that's that. And it took me three extra min. The guy that slid into our DMs and was like, hey, I can help, you know, like. And you're like. I was like, I don't know, do I want to get on call with you? Anyway, so that's what I love. And so I think for anybody freaking out just like realize it's not like some magic words to say, it's just, can you find somebody in pain and then just offer them the solution to the pain and be a normal human about it? I think that's it.
- [62:24]
A
One of my favorite example, you know, Ben Moot, obviously on my team, Ben, I eventually stole him and now he's like my right hand man, working on projects all the time. But before that he was doing funnel, like he was building funnels for other people. And I asked him his process and it was so cool. He's like, everyone hears you talk about funnel hacking and everyone understands it but no one wants to do it. So he's like, I would offer to do funnel hacking for people. So I charge, I can't remember 300 bucks. And so like someone was like trying, anyone ever seen a funnel that does this? Or you know, like they, they ask those questions. He's like, hey, 300 bucks, I'll go funnel hack 10 funnels for you. And so they, they like basically The Ryman check. 300 bucks. He goes out there, he go find 10 funnels. Same process we talked about, right? Go start searching for things, find them, go through the process, funnel hack them. So he take these 10 funnels and then send it back to the person. Like, here's the 10 funnels. And by the way, if I was you, based on these 10, I would do a funnel like this. And you map out. Here's the strategy I would do. Here you go. And then the person's like, whoa, that's insane. That's amazing. And then the next question is like, cool. So you can do that on your own if you want, you can hire me. I can do that for you. And like 95% of people who like he did the funnel build for, hired him do the thing later because you know about this market, you understand like you see the vision, like this is it, like you understand the strategy. This is insane. And it was just the most simple like non threatening thing. Like I'll do the work and you can do funnel hacks for people for free. Just like I'm going to go do it for you for free. This is right, you know, just give the recommendation. Like you putting forth that effort is what gets the person. Like I'm, I could hire the 14 people that slid in my DMS, you know, saying, saying how can I help you sir? Versus you know, the person who went out there and like did the data research and show them like on a silver platter. That's what I would do if I was you. And like, please help.
- [63:51]
B
Well and that's what I think about clients too. I think we like, like or even in selling, launching a product, like we build it up to be so much more than it is. And it's so interesting. Like even like, like with getting healthier, losing weight, like everybody actually knows what to do. What do you do? You move more and you eat less or eat better. Right? Like that. At the end of the day that's what it is. And there's always going to be circumstances, like some people have crazy hormones or whatever, but like at the end of the day, like basically everyone knows at.
- [64:14]
A
Least more calories than you eat and you're probably going to lose weight.
- [64:16]
B
Yeah, like we know that and yet we still hire coaches over and over and over and over again. Why? Because we're just like afraid. We're like afraid to take the steps or we need accountability to take the steps. And I think about that so often with selling too. Like everybody knows what to do. Actually, like I don't know how to find clients. You do know how to find clients. Like just go find somebody that's hurting and help them. But we're almost too afraid to do it. And I always, I almost wonder, like sometimes I'll make deals with myself. I talked about this the other day with somebody with, when you were there, but I was like, like you're not allowed to freak out until where I'll be like, oh, like what if the assignment isn't to make money? What if the assignment is more something I can control where I'm like, oh, I actually have to have conversations with 100 people and try to pitch 100 people on selling my service. And only after a hundred people am I able to freak out. But like, the assignment isn't to make money right now. The assignment's just to go talk to a hundred people. And that is something I can control. And if money happens, great. Like, if it doesn't happen, whatever. But like, I learned this phase honestly from dating. I learned it from my friends. And she called it like, she called it the two week data. Two week data, where she's like, you know, sometimes you're dating a guy and you're like, I don't know. And like, she's like, I just got so overwhelmed. Some days I'd be like, oh, I love him. The next day, like, he's so annoying, right? And she goes, I call it two week data. And she goes, for two weeks, I'm not allowed to do anything. I'm not allowed to feel happy, sad, whatever. I just. Data acquisition. So if I have a great day on Monday with him, but he's kind of a loser on Tuesday, whatever data, you know, and then at the end of the two weeks, I can look at all the data and be like, oh, it's like overwhelmingly positive or overwhelmingly negative. And therefore I have enough data to make my decision. I was like, that's so smart.
- [65:49]
A
Tell the guy before the date, you got two weeks. Then we'll decide if we're gonna go on a third day.
- [65:52]
B
I know, but I'm like, that's kind of genius. So I started implementing those principles. You're not allowed to freak out until, right? And so it's like, okay, like before I call quits or sleep on this opportunity or decide to have a major freak out or whatever, it's two week data or whatever, it's. I'll be like, okay, like, until I pitch this X amount of times, it's just data and I'm not gonna. And it. And even though it's hard and like, my nature is to attach because you just, you put so much into it, right? Like, my nature is like, attach my worth sometimes to like that funnel. So if that funnel does great, I'm incredible. That funnel does terrible. It's like, I've never done anything good in my life, you know, but when I like make these contracts with for myself, it just like, because so much of the game of creation, like not just funnels, but creating anything in general, there's like a, like a physical production part to it and then there's also this emotional component to it. Like, so many people have the skills to be incredible entrepreneurs and funnel builders, but they like Lack the emotional fortitude, good to actually start. Or there's a lot of people that are like, I can do anything. But they never learn the skill set. And so they kind of suck too. Right. And it requires both and my. I am definitely, I think more steady in my skills. Like I think my technical skills are like pretty great because I've done so many reps and sometimes I just get scared and I get nervous and I just like want to do such a good job for people and my family that like I like can get quickly critical and like blah blah, blah and, and all these different things. And so I just have to make deals with myself to be like Katherine, remember it's all just a game and like it's all just to help you with this. So like don't waste energy on that. So you're not allowed to freak out until. So that might be something too of like people like considering this game before you even learn the skillset. Just go try to sell 10 people. If somebody says yes, then you'll be like, okay, well I guess I'll go learn it now. Right. Like, but I think we build it up so much in our head because we're trying to make it something more than it is. Or if they say no to me, they say no this to this dealer saying no to me, when in reality what's actually happening. We're trying to help people in pain be out of pain. And that's all it is. And so anyway, so if any, anybody freaks out like me, just I literally like write contracts and sign them with myself. You're not allowed to freak out until June 17th. I know. And you want to know what's so interesting is when I get to the end of those contracts, whether it goes good or bad, I'm not freaking out because it becomes a very logical non emotional decision because I have data sets before me.
- [68:09]
A
The motion happens in the peaks and the valleys, you know.
- [68:10]
B
Yeah.
- [68:11]
A
Like you get a bunch of those and it starts usually it flattens out the point where like now you make a decision that's not so scary.
- [68:16]
B
Well, you know, it's interesting. So McCall and Tanner, my brother and sister in law, they, they kind of, they came and spoke a few days that you're selling online event. And so they came back. I was like, tell me everything, you know, because I always want to hear behind the scenes. I just love everything you guys do. And so they're telling me and they're like they. And they said, you want to know? One of my favorite things that I learned from Russell. And I was like, what? And you've been saying, like, this new selling online event is like one of the best highest converting funnels you've had in a while. Like, it's just crushing it. And so you sell this product at the end. And it was actually my brother that told me this. He's like, man, I just loved it. And he goes. Because, like, all of a sudden they pitch and they come off and like, it kind of took a while for like the first five sales to come through. And he's like. And when Russell heard that it wasn't like, oh, shoot, only five sales, it was just like, okay. Like, and then they just moved on. And then like, you. You don't freak out, right? And you, like, continued through the portion of it and you like had day two and day three or whatever afterwards and like the follow up sequences and then it ends up becoming like one of your highest converting funnels. But, like, there was an opportunity for you to be like, oh, like those first few sales didn't come in as quickly as we wanted to. Like, I'm calling quits. You guys suck. Like, this is so bad. We gotta rewrite the whole thing. But, like, we don't even, like, play it out long enough to see if it actually works and turns. And then it turns out to be like one of the best converting funnels. And so, like, Tanner and McCall, they just came back and they just realized that, like, oh, we didn't realize, like, how much more steady we could be in this process because it is so fun. It's so rad when you have the table rush. And it's so awesome when you're like, oh my gosh, I sold out this thing before I even got off live. It's so fun. And also people are people and sometimes people need time whether to buy or whether you need time to learn how to do the skill again. I just think there's just so much beauty in allowing yourself time. Don't pull the plug before you. Before you even give yourself a chance to win.
- [70:07]
A
Yeah, that's cool. That's what they got out of this. That's fascinating. Okay, so I know we're gonna be doing another podcast interview here in a little bit, going deeper into traffic and joint ventures and partnerships and stuff. But I want to kind of wrap up this one with, obviously, we've been here this whole week doing the selling. Selling sales funnels challenge.
- [70:24]
B
See, and you're better. You go for the tongue twister. I just say cell funnels.
- [70:27]
A
Like cells funnels. And everyone's like, okay, cool. I'm like, no, like, cell funnels.
- [70:30]
B
Like, yeah, we are selling.
- [70:31]
A
You've been talking about cell phones for a decade, Russell. It's not a big deal. Like, no, it's a big deal because SCL s a L E sells anyway.
- [70:39]
B
It's either like the best or the worst idea we had. If the name changes, you guys will see. I thought it was clever, but I don't know.
- [70:45]
A
Very clever. So the Sell sells funnel challenge, and I'm assuming, hopefully we'll have an evergreen version up in the future. So if you. Someone goes to sell funnels.coms e l l. Oh, sorry. Sellfunnelschall challenge.com yeah, selfunnels challenge.com we may have an evergreen version, but for those who don't, we do. We did during the challenge, made an offer for somebody to come into, like, our training, our certification program, which is kind of cool behind the scenes. Obviously, you had your design hacking program that you sold for years, four, five, six years now, and had tons of success helping people do that. Level number one, which is like finding a client do the build that's, you know, anywhere from a hundred bucks to a couple thousand bucks. And you took that program, which was fun, is during those who watched it live, you went and showed like, 20 minutes of screenshots. Like, this guy's first challenge was like, $100, 500,000. Like, this guy made $3,400 his first funnel. Like, all sorts of things. There's this person after person, right? So we took your program, which has been insanely helpful for people in our ClickFunnels community forever, and we took the Click funnel certification program, which dives deeper into the strategy and all kind of stuff, and we smushed them together into the coolest training program ever. For someone who wants to learn how to, like, become a funnel builder, to be certified to be able to do this, I love you. Just, I don't know. We have tons of time, but briefly talk about what the program is specifically, kind of the timeline, because it's different than, like, you're going to learn a whole bunch of stuff. This is like, here's the sprint we're going on to get you to this result. This result, this result. I love you. Kind of talk about what that looks like from the outside.
- [72:09]
B
Yeah, well, at the end of the day, people opt in to sell sales funnels because they want to make money. And so what we did, I flew to boys. We all worked together and we said, okay, there has to be Three primary objectives that they determine all of anything that happens in this program, it's to make the funnel builder money. It's to make their clients money in both as quickly as possible. And so if there's anything in this program that does not directly contribute to it, it's fluff.
- [72:34]
A
It's how cool it is. And I had some cool stuff that.
- [72:36]
B
And he did. And I did have to. I did tell him kindly. I was like, russell, it's amazing. It's not for this program. I, like, sell to them. They can pay more money for that.
- [72:44]
A
Understand the different way our brains work. So, as you guys may or may not know, in the last 18 months, I've bought, or, sorry, last two years, I bought 18,000 books. I'm building a library. Like, I just want to have every piece of resource known to man at my fingertips in case I ever want it. Even though I'll probably never read most of them. Right. And a lot of my programs that way. It's like, you have every resource you ever need. And when you first came, you're like, wow, are people stressed out? I'm like, I don't. I wouldn't be stressed out. And you're like, my brain does not look like a work like a library. Mine works like, step by step, let's take your library and plug just the pieces. Someone needs to go from step one to result step, and then from that result to the next result.
- [73:20]
B
Yeah. Because I have a very OCD checklist brain, so I think. And my husband is a lot more like you where it stresses me out. He could take a book and he'll just skim through it and read a few pages, and then he puts it back on the shelf. And my brain is like, what do you mean? I'm like, you didn't read the book? Like, I'm like, for my. For it to feel checkmark. Read for me. I'm like, I read the COVID I read the acknowledgements. If there's an appendix, I like to go through the appendix. Like, it's not done right. And so, like, for better or worse, that is how my brain works. So when I go into a program that has, like, oh, and you also get access to this and this and this. Like, I feel like I have to do it all before I can start. And so for me, I'm like, oh, no. Like, please don't give it to me. Like, I'm here because I want this result and I don't want anything else. And so I've taught, like, people in other programs and stuff like how to actually create a course. And the prompt I always give them, and this is exactly the prompt that we went through for this is for this new funnel builder coaching and certification program is I say, I want you to imagine that's you and your customer or whoever's going through the program with you. You're locked in a room. You're not allowed to eat, you're not allowed to sleep, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom, you're not allowed to leave until they achieve the result. How are you going to get it for them? And at that point, you're not. Like, you know what? This would be a cool, like, extra training. Like, go watch out in the corner for a few hours and see. It's like, I need a sandwich. I'm starving. Like, get the job done, right? And so, like, that's what I always like to think of. Like, you, you will be locked in that room and eventually you will die if you don't eat and if you don't sleep and then you're gonna have to go to the bathroom in the corner. It's gonna be ugly, right? So, like, how quickly can we get you to that result? And that's just like how I want programs to be made. So that's how I make them myself. And I think a lot of people are like that because there is so much information online. And if you find a guru like you who actually knows what they're doing, it can be really wonderful. But sometimes it really can be super overwhelming. And I actually think that the best programs have both where you have a very clear path. And then if you want to dive deeper, you want to become an expert in a certain thing, or you have some crazy extenuating circumstances, it's like, great, you got the library in the back. And that's what this new program is. It just takes you assuming you know exactly nothing and you've made exactly $0 online, but you want to make money selling sales funnels online. It takes you from step zero to step one to step two to step three. And so what we focus on is, okay, great, let's. Let's get you money as quickly as possible. And so rather than like, learn the whole gamut of I need to learn design and then assets and then strategy, then optimization, and then we'll go try and make money a lot like how college is, like, go through four years and then, good luck. We learn a micro skill and then we monetize the skill, and then we learn a micro skill and then monetize learn, micro. And so, like, in my old program that we incorporate into here, people started what's called, like, the money by the weekend challenge, because it's just like, okay, well, I just. I don't have to learn the whole thing. I just need to learn a little thing. And, like, can I, by the time I buy this on a Thursday to the time Sunday ends, like, can I go monetize this? And people do. It's, like, amazing. So that's what it looks like. So we, like, first teach you all through design. Like, let's teach you how to design. Let's teach you how to monetize design. And then you can decide at that point, do you want to build a full business out of this, or do you want to learn the next step? And so if you do, then we teach you strategy and assets is where we dive really deep into your concepts, and we. But we put them in chronological order. So we take your beautiful library brain. And for me, little OCD people. Yes, exactly. So, like, you guys know, like, I'm like, going through this content, and I'm like, okay, from minute 12 minutes and 14 seconds to minute 15 minutes and 11 seconds, I'm like, go clip that. That's what we need.
- [76:32]
A
The other three hours, they're so fun.
- [76:33]
B
And I'm like, it's in the library. That's where it is. You don't need it. Okay. Because we're locked in the room anyway. But then we teach you strategy and assets, and then we monetize it. And then if you want to learn more, we teach you how to optimize, right? Like, tweak this funnel headline here, blah, blah, and then monetize it. And then if you want to scale it, we teach you the principles of building an agency so that you can scale and go from there. And so that's what I love about this new program, is that people do get results really quickly because it's learn, monetize, learn, monetize, learn, monetize. Rather than, like, learn and then, like, good luck monetizing. Hope it works out for you. It's like, no. Like, the whole point is to make you. Yeah. To get almost. It's also, you get paid to learn. It's, like, really, really amazing. So it's amazing program. It's so fun. It's been, like, so fun, kind of morphing both of our frameworks and strategies together and, like, a really chronological order. It's been, like, so fun.
- [77:14]
A
I'm proud of it. Because it's like something that, like, One of my sons, he's like, he's like, dad, I think I could be a funnel builder like this, something I can plug my kids into. If, if I had a friend or family member lost their job, like I would buy this for them like if you know, because again, it's not something that's like a lot of programs I have, it's like you're going to learn how to become an expert and how to write. You know, that takes a lot of time. There's a lot of things have to happen for you to be able to do this. This is like you're leveraging other people's stuff. You're coming in and just being that key integral part that makes it go live for them.
- [77:40]
B
Because you don't have to be the face of it. You don't have to provide a product. Like you let other people provide the product. You just build a selling machine.
- [77:47]
A
Yeah.
- [77:47]
B
And so it really is amazing. So we honestly have had 10 year olds go in Stephanie Dove Blake's. You've talked about her, she's like really being in community. Her kids have gone through it. Like it's been like a really beautiful thing. But because it is step by step, whether you are a 10 year old or in your 60s or 70s or you've never done anything before or homeless, like every single one of those avatars have been through the program and made money with it because it's just like don't try to learn the whole thing, just learn step one. Did you step one.
- [78:10]
A
Which badge of people usually make money their first dollar buy.
- [78:13]
B
So I. So we like broke up the program, right. And so like from so I again because I'm trying to get us out of the room as quickly as possible so we don't die. I like broke everything up into micro challenges. And so people on average are 15 to 20 hours away from their first sale. And so that, that's over the course of like six little challenges that some.
- [78:31]
A
People could do it in 15 to 20 hours straight or you could do over a week or over a month. But like depending how much time you put into is that's where most people are getting their first sale in the.
- [78:40]
B
15 to 20 hour mark. And that's what I really love. Like when we were going through the challenge today I was like the average college degree takes you 1800 to 2400 hours and that's over four years and.
- [78:50]
A
You don't get paid, you're not getting paid.
- [78:52]
B
And even at the end you might not get paid. Right. But like what we're saying is not only are you learning a skill set, you're actually monetizing the skill set in 15 to 20 hours. And people are like, that seems too good to be true. What does this look like? And like, what I have to tell them is because of the step by step process, it's because there's such high demand and it's because we're not trying to learn the whole gamut. We're doing the lowest hanging fruit. And again, like, some people wouldn't believe me. So what I would do is I would like, I like, one of the biggest ways I sold this product was through joint ventures. So I love this. I would like go into people's groups, I would pitch the product and then what I would do is me and my assistants, we would wait and we'd like get the email list of everybody that joined and we'd like stalk them in my Facebook group over two weeks. And to get to earn a badge, I'd have to take a screenshot and post in the group. And so then what I do is I'd go back into that same group I pitched in two weeks later, and I would literally just be like, here's the 46 people. Yeah. So I wouldn't even agree. Like, once I learned this, I never agreed to do a joint venture unless they'd let me come to a re pitch because we do 25 to 100 of sales. Same thing. Because we just go. We'd stalk people and in two weeks time, they'd already get results. And then we'd come back in and we'd be like, the only reason we could think that you didn't join this program is because you thought it'd be too good to be true. And be like, you want to see what your own kin, what your own people have done in the last two weeks. And we just be like, they did this. They did this. This person made money. They did this. They did this. They this. Like, do you believe me? Like, they did this. They listen and be like, okay, like you're whoever your group player is so awesome, they decide to open it up again. So three more days and we do again, like 25 to 100% of original sales. But that is also the beauty of like, of this skill set, that the reason I tell that story is just to show that when you, when you break down process, I mean, you break down the skill of funnel building into design, into assets, into strategy, into optimization, into agency, rather than trying to learn the whole thing at once, you can monetize from the very beginning and get paid to learn more and learn more and learn more as you grow your business.
- [80:36]
A
The coolest thing ever. So I'm pumped for everyone who's on the challenge. They had a chance to go flash three days through this, we made a special offer. Most people jumped in or going on that path, which is really cool for people on the podcast, obviously, number one, hopefully we have an evergreen version of the challenge. If you go to sellfunnelschallenge.com, be able to see that in the near future. But if you're like, this sounds like the thing for me. I want this to be my career. I want to go dive in. I want to go through that. I want to get on the path. Do you remember the link?
- [81:01]
B
Oh, you bet it's in. Grants tattooed on my arm. No, I'm just kidding. Funnel Builder www.funnelbuilders with an S.com all in.
- [81:08]
A
All in. Okay, so grab it. If you're at home, listen this in your car, pull over real quick, grab pad of paper and it say one more time.
- [81:14]
B
Funnel builders.com forward/, all in, all in.
- [81:17]
A
So check it out there. And there's a spot where you can go and you can get started and jump into the path.
- [81:22]
B
Hang out with Russell Strategies mixed with my OCD brain. I mean, what could be better? Come on.
- [81:28]
A
And if you're an adult and you're like, I got a kid who's useless. Like, plug him into the program. Like, I'm just kidding. But if you have somebody struggling, like, this is like, you talked about your dad. You're working with your dad, and your dad's like, we need this. And he plugged you into it was awesome. Our first version of this program, it was helped you go through this, right? Like, so for any of you guys, it's like, could be for you, it could be for spouse, could be for a kid, like, being it for a Christmas or a birthday present for somebody. Like, this could be their future. This could be their career, right? You can go give them a college education and spend, you know what, a 60 grand a semester at Duke or whatever or Princeton or for a fraction of a fraction of a fraction that give them this thing that within 20 hours they can make their first sale and then keep going and keep going and growing into it. And this could be the coolest career in the world. This career opens up so many cool doors. Like, that's how I met Tony Robbins. Because of this skill set, how I met most of the famous people I know Is because of this skill set.
- [82:13]
B
Because they had a product, but they needed a funnel to sell it. Right.
- [82:15]
A
I remember when Tony Robbins launching his book, he hadn't launched a book in 20 years. It was the. His first finance book. And so, you know, Tony's a busy guy. I'd met him a couple times before, but I know him. Great. And I just text message, dude, you're launching a book. Do you have a book funnel? What's a book funnel?
- [82:29]
B
And you're like, ding, ding, ding.
- [82:30]
A
Next thing I know, Tony Robbins calls me on the phone, hey, you need a book funnel. What's a book funnel? This is how it works. He's like, what would it take to build one? I'm like, well, I have the software coming up with click funnels to build funnels, but I need to film you. So doing all the sales videos. So can we hang out? Can I film you? I was like, can I come spend a day at your house and film you? He's like, nope. And I'm like, okay, well, how can I film you? He's like, I'm speaking in Las Vegas next week. I can give you an hour in a hotel room. I was like, done. And a week later, I'm in a hotel room filming Tony Robbins. We put together a book funnel launched on click funnels. He loved the platform at the hotel. We showed him the whole thing. Thing. He loved it. Next funnel. I can have you speak. It was just, like, crazy, because I was like, he needs a book funnel. I know how to build a book funnel. Hey, man, you have a book funnel. Boom. Open this huge door, right? Like, anyway, so it'll open. It'll change your life. Yeah. This skill set's the number one thing you all needed to learn to master. So, anyway, thank you for hanging out with me.
- [83:18]
B
Well, thanks for introducing me to this world. What a beautiful place. It is so awesome.
- [83:22]
A
So much fun. So. All right, everyone who's been listening home, hope you guys enjoyed this episode. If you do and you're ready to get started, go to funnelbuilders. Com. Allin. Or if you want to watch the whole challenge, hopefully I have an evergreen version up soon. Go to sell S E L L sellfunnelschallenge.
- [83:36]
B
Com. Got it.
- [83:36]
A
There you go. All right, thanks, Captain. Appreciate you. See you guys all soon.