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The Russell Brunson Show
What I Learned About Sales From the "Wolf of Wall Street", Jordan Belfort | #Sales - Ep. 42
00:48:38
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- [00:02]
Jordan Belfort
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- [01:00]
Russell Brunson
Do you have a funnel? But it's not converting? The problem 99.9% of the time is that your funnel is good, but you suck at selling. If you want to learn how to sell so your funnels will actually convert, then get a ticket to my next selling online event by going to sellingonline.com podcast. That's sellingonline.com podcast.
- [01:19]
Jordan Belfort
This is the Russell Brunson Show.
- [01:23]
Russell Brunson
What's up everybody? Welcome back to the show. I'm excited today to talk to somebody who's. I actually first found out about this person. Actually, it's kind of crazy. I looked on my Amazon. So September 11, 2010, I bought a book called the Wolf of Wall Street. And then shortly afterwards I bought another book. I think it's called Catching the Wolf. Is it Part two? Catching the Wolf of Wall Street?
- [01:45]
Jordan Belfort
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [01:46]
Russell Brunson
This is before the. I want somebody. I knew who you were before the movie came out. Cause I was reading both. I read both these books. I was actually. It was a time in my business where I was struggling and we were flying around trying to figure out like what our next step was, what we're going to do. And someone recommended I read, read this book, actually listen to it. I listened to the audiobook and I listened to Part two and I was like mesmerized for like, I don't even know, you know, four or five weeks of this story that made no sense. It was crazy. It was ups. And it was just like one of the most fascinating stories I'd ever heard. Obviously, a lot of you guys now have probably seen the movie, so you understand at least most of the Story. But anyway, ever since then, I've had a chance to. To get to know Jordan and watch behind the scenes what he's doing. I had a chance to go through his straight line sales persuasion course, a bunch of other stuff, and just excited to have him here because we're always talking about marketing and sales, and there's a few people to understand both of those, like Jordan Belfort. So thanks, man, for jumping on the podcast. I appreciate you.
- [02:35]
Jordan Belfort
My pleasure, My pleasure.
- [02:36]
Russell Brunson
When did you actually write the books? I'm curious.
- [02:39]
Jordan Belfort
Like, when I. Yeah, so I originally wrote the book. See, I went to jail in, like, 2004 and 2003 actually, and got out in 2005. So when I was in jail, I taught myself to write. You know, I started, like, I was studying a book called Bonfire of the Vanities, and I model. I believe in modeling. So I modeled the book that I thought was amazing, right? And, you know, put in my 10,000 hours. When I got out, you know, I said, what am I going to do? I said, well, let me just write this book. I didn't really, you know, think I ever finish it, and, you know, started doing it and, like, I'd show the pages to people and everyone loved it, you know, and by the time I got to page 30, you know, it was sold to Random House for a huge amount of money, you know, And I was like, are these guys crazy? I mean, like, I don't even think I could finish the book, you know? You know, but. And you've written books. It's not. It's not easy.
- [03:26]
Russell Brunson
It's hard.
- [03:27]
Jordan Belfort
Ghost writers, I write myself, right? So, although nowadays I guess I could have AI writes to help me write, but back then there was no way I write. So I wrote the book. Took me a year, and I literally locked myself away. And I think this is what some people don't get about success is that, like, you know, when you have to do something. Number one, I put in. I put in massive work studying, learning how to write. And that was an integral step to writing a book. I think they'll try to write, but they haven't put in the time to teach themselves the actual skill, right? So I really put the time in teaching myself the skill. And then a year, like, locked away 18 hours a day, just writing and writing. And at the end of the day, I wrote a thousand 1100 pages, went through like seven edits, and what came out of it was the wolf, the book, the Wolf of Wall Street. And, you know, very quickly, you know, within before was even Released became a bidding war in Hollywood between Leo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt and Soldo Leo, he brought in Scorsese to direct. And the rest, as they say, is history.
- [04:26]
Russell Brunson
That's crazy. When did the second book. Did you write that right afterwards. Was that after the. When did that come in?
- [04:32]
Jordan Belfort
Yeah, after I wrote the first book and it was sold to. To Leo and Marty, you know, Random House, because you got to do part two out of the. An option, right? So they exercise the option and started writing book two. You know, the really interesting thing about the Wolf of Wall street is that it was Green lit in 2007 the first time, right? And, you know, I wrote the book. Then again, Terry Winter adapted the screenplay in 2006. Everyone loved it. Like, it was amazing, right? And the book was slated to come out in, like, November of 2007, right? What happened was the script was great. Warner Brothers loved it. Leo loved it, Marty loved it. And then the writers strike hit. Remember the writers strike, right? And they couldn't polish it, so the window closed. I was freaking devastated. I'm like, oh, I was this close. They had rented the sound stages, right? And they went and did Shutter island instead. And then it took about four more years, for five more years for the stars to realign because Marty's very slow, right? And I was in this torturous period. But the interesting thing is this, is that as bad as it was, what it forced me to do was to adapt. I had to do something to make money. The GFC hit in 2008, so no one was paying you for anything. So I started going on doing speaking, free speeches, right? I started teaching sales to straight line. By the time the movie came around again in 2011, I'd made a ton of money. I was rich again, right? From speaking and teaching the straight line. And when Leo came to my house, I'd say, hey, great news. I'm gonna come over already. The first time he came to my house, I was in a little tiny one bedroom apartment. Now I'm on a mansion in the water. He's like, what the hell happened to you? And I told the story. I show him a video of me was at the Frank Kern event. I show him this of me speaking. He's like, marty is going to go crazy with this. He's going to love it. Sends it to Marty. They ended up rewriting the whole third act of the movie and turned it into a comeback story. Because originally it ended with me going to jail. There was no comeback. You get it? And it made it with, you know, they added on a commercial of me teaching the straight line, sell me this pen. So it made it a much better movie and obviously paved the way when it came out for me and, you know, blew up my business. So it's really bad things happen. But you work hard, you make the best of them, you know?
- [06:47]
Russell Brunson
Yes. Very interesting. In the second book, I think at the very end, you were talking about. Because you were. You cellmates with Cheech or Chong or one of the. I can't remember exactly.
- [06:57]
Jordan Belfort
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I.
- [06:59]
Russell Brunson
Because it was fast as you're finishing the book. I got that spot. And then you start talking about you writing the book and you finding your voice for the book. And I was like. And then. Then it ends, right? And I remember I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I've been sucked into these books for the last. And again, I respect great writing, so you write really well. But I was sucked in this thing. And then it was kind of cool, you telling the story at the end, but I think one of the. I'm sure you know this or you thought about this, but, like, one of the things I think was most powerful about the way you wrote that was fascinating to me was, like, a lot of times I get into books and there's all these characters, and I get stuck by. I forget, like, who's that character? Is that character. And you, like, brought characters into the book, right? And then you would, like, give them a nickname, like the Mormon or the this. Or the this and Mormon, too. So, like, every time you brought the Mormon, like, I had a picture. Like, I could picture exactly that dude flawlessly my head, like. And I understand how he would react to the situation, but because you took the name away and, like, synced it to, like a. Like a stereotype or whatever it's called, like, it just makes.
- [07:51]
Jordan Belfort
I describe the characters really deeply and then gave him a nickname, right? So, like, you know, it's like, one of the mistakes people make when they write is they tend to under describe people locations. They get the richness is in the description, you know, because on the other, listen, it's words on. On a page. So you have to paint a picture, right? And I think that just to say, you went there, he went there. No, he went there and he walked in the room and he saw this type of couch, the walls, and he felt like this, this. You get it? So it's really getting very deep and taking time to bring scenes to life. And I think that's really all things that we know Whether it's on landing pages. No, there's taking the time to make it really interesting and cool. So it's not just something that's like, you know, bland and generic. I think it goes to all types of marketing.
- [08:36]
Russell Brunson
Yeah. It takes them on a, on a journey. I, I, I talked about before people, like when you're trying to tell a story or write copy or anything, like getting into the feelings of the character is what makes the feelings of the reader, like, pop out. Right. Because then they can, they emphasize versus most people are like, he walked in the room, it was hot versus like his palms were sweating. Like, you know, whatever. Like going deeper. What, like you're talking about the feelings, which I think you did. Yeah. Such a good job in that book. Anyway, it makes one. I, I haven't, I haven't read it since, since, you know, whenever that was 15 years ago. So I makes want to go back and, and re dive into him.
- [09:07]
Jordan Belfort
Now.
- [09:07]
Russell Brunson
The, the movie was based on the first book. Will you talk about what the second book was? Because it's an interesting part of the story. I don't think most people, you know, a lot of people obviously have seen the movie wherever. But the second part I thought was the second book was very interesting because it was more like almost you dealing with the, like the aftermath of it all. Yeah. You talk about kind of what that was for those who would be interested, because I think a lot of people, even, I'm sure you get this on, you know, people. There's the controversial side of you. It's like there's also this other side that, that's interesting.
- [09:34]
Jordan Belfort
I think that, you know, listen, that whole life I lived, it looked fun, it was fun. I won't deny it was fun. Right. But, and I don't have any regrets in the sense that of course I wish people never lost money and stuff like that, but, you know, you, you, you can't look back at your life and live with regret because everyone makes mistakes. The idea is to learn and grow and get better. But I think there's a time when, you know, when your life is literally imploding in every single way. You know, losing your family, your money, your reputation, ultimately your freedom. And, you know, you end up going to jail or you're the lowest. You know, that's where the losers of the world go. And it's very easy for you to feel like, you know, I'm a loser versus maybe I did some things wrong that temporarily put me in the loser column, but I am not a loser. Right. But for me, like, you know, it was about reexamining my values. Like, you know, like here's a great example. Like if you would have asked me when I was 25 years old, you know, what's the purpose of business? Why go into business to make a ton of money? I would have said the more the better. You go into business to get rich, to make money. But in truth, that's not really what business is about. Business is about delivering value, monetizing value. In other words, a business exists to take something of value and then to deliver that value to people in a cost effective way. Okay, in a cost effective way. So in other words, the idea is you have someone's valuable if the business is run poorly, by the time you're done delivering it, you haven't made any question more to deliver it than actually, you know, that you get that you could charge for it. Right? So a well run business is about, you know, figuring out who your best buyers are, having something that's massively value message to market match and then running the business in a way that allows you to, to essentially make the sale, deliver the value to someone and at the end of the day you make money. And by the way, that's what it's supposed to be. I want to think that when I'm running a successful business, if I make $10, they would have paid 50, they feel like they got $50 in value. And that's the sort of mentality, right, that's going to lead you to make great decisions in pricing and marketing and just features, benefits, right, versus saying how do I just maximize and make the most money I possibly can, regardless whether they get a fair shake or not. So it's a really, really problematic when you go into business thinking I'm just doing it to get rich. Of course you want to get rich, why not? Money's great. I love money, right? But the idea is the purpose of the business itself is to monetize value. And I learned that lesson the hard way. And it's very difficult to change your values except if you get like slaughtered in life. Like it takes some severe, you know, insult where you say, you know what, I need to re examine my values because obviously I got something wrong here because I know I'm really talented, I know I'm really great at what I do, but somehow I ended up with nothing and have to start over. What's wrong with my strategy? What's wrong my values? And the answer was, is I had some bankrupt values back then. It was all about how Much can I make every single day? Ask myself that question. How do I make more? How do I make more? Not a great way to live. So nowadays when I do anything, I'm always thinking, okay, you know, how do I give more value to people? Because I know, I know how to run a business. If I give more value, I'll make more money automatically. So it's a shift in perspective, and I think it's really powerful.
- [12:57]
Russell Brunson
That's really interesting. That's very powerful. When, like, do you remember, like, when, like, was it something conscious? You're like, okay, I gotta think through these values or something more. Just over time, as you start doing those things kind of came to lighter. How did that transition? You know, I mean, part of it.
- [13:12]
Jordan Belfort
Had to do with, you know, a desire for instant gratification. You know, it's really problematic for people that in business. And I think when I. When I was young, I really had this desire to be making the money now. I wanted it to happen now. And the truth is, and I've learned this through writing, is that very often good things, things that are really valuable take a lot of time. They take time. It's not easy. So I had to teach myself to write. I put in those, you know, proverbial 10,000 hours. I put in a year of my life, and it took me another year to write the book, you know, but then I watched what happened because of all that hard work, putting in the time, delaying my gratification, right? And then watched how it rebuilt a life that I would have never dreamed possible. Money, success, fame, the whole thing, right? Because of massive hall work. And I kind of realized, I said, you know, and really from that moment forward, it was like this idea that I would never engage in a transaction where I thought I'd make money and others would lose. Does that mean everything I do is always great? No. I make mistakes, but never intentionally. Like, I would never go and do a deal and think that someone would lose and I would make money. I'll give you an example. I can't tell you. You can imagine how many people have approached me to do a meme coin. I can make $50 million tomorrow. 50 easily. Probably $100 million on a Jordan Belfort Wolf meme coin. But I would never do it because I know at the end of the day that I'll make 50. So they're going to lose 50, so I just won't do it. I'd love to have an extra 50, but what's the point? And the idea is that when I engage in any transaction right now. I always say, okay, well, what am I? What's the value I'm giving here? And if I can give massive value, I'll do the transaction, but not if I can't.
- [14:59]
Russell Brunson
So if I come with a meme coin idea that provides value, then you're in. Just kidding.
- [15:03]
Jordan Belfort
I don't think that's possible. Listen, there's nothing wrong with meme coins. There's nothing wrong with meme coins if you want to speculate and make meme coins. But the idea that I would have a supply of 100 million billion meme coins and it would shut up and I dumped my meme coins and no, thank you. I just don't want to do it. I just don't want to be part of it. You know, there's no amount of money that you could give me. No amount that I want to do it. So then you don't know who I am.
- [15:25]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, for sure. All right, funnel hackers, let's have some fun for a second. One of the hardest parts about B2B marketing isn't getting attention. It's getting the right attention. I'm sure you know what I mean. Isn't it a pain when you see the weirdest ad showing up in your feed? Ads for things you know you would never use in a million years, and you start thinking, that person is wasting so much money targeting me for a product or service I will never use? And here's the thing, those companies probably thought that they were marketing perfectly, but they were wasting money because they didn't get their targeting right. And that's why LinkedIn Ads is such a game changer. LinkedIn isn't your everyday social platform. This is where over 1 billion professionals, people who are already thinking about business, are hanging out. And their targeting options are unreal. You can target by job title, industry, company size, role skills, revenue level, seniority, literally laser focus to the decision makers who can actually buy what you're selling. It's like having a magic filter for your perfect customer. And if you're serious about growing your business and you don't want to keep paying to show people ads who will never buy, then you have to get on LinkedIn. Here's the best part. LinkedIn will even give you $100 credit on your next campaign, so you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com clicks. That's LinkedIn.com clicks. Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. What's up, everybody? Russell Brunson here. I've got something really Cool to share with you today that I think is going to speak directly to that fire inside of you. You know, as entrepreneurs, taking risk isn't just part of the journey, it is the journey. It's built into our DNA. We've all had those moments where an idea hits you out of nowhere and your gut is screaming, go for it. And your brain is like, wait, are we really going to do this? That tension between the bold vision and total fear, that exact leap, is what this new podcast season is all about. It's called this is Small Business. And lately I've been hooked. Seriously. The host, Andrea Marquez takes you behind the scenes with real founders. People who don't just dip their toe in the water. They. They cannonballed into the unknown and figured it out midair. And yeah, sometimes they crashed, but other times they absolutely soared. What I love about the show is how raw and unfiltered is. These aren't sugar coated startup stories. These are moments of panic and pivot and hustle and breakthrough. And every single episode is loaded with lessons that you can actually apply to your own journey. There's one episode where the founder was literally days away from walking away, but instead of folding, they made one bold move and that move ended up being the game changer. That's the stuff that lights me up. It's like getting a front row seat to the kind of decisions that define people's legacies. If you're constantly on the hunt for that new edge, whether it's a mindset shift, a new strategy, or just the spark of inspiration to take your next big step, you've got to check this out. So go follow this is Small Business. On Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, this is the kind of inspiration that reminds you why you started and helps you figure out what's next. Don't miss it. Okay, I want to transition a little bit. So after I read the books initially, then again I, I love books. I love stuff. Then I started diving into everything you're doing and I think, I don't know when you'd come out with straight line persuasion course, but. But I found it, bought it, got a copy of, started listening to it. So many good things. But there's one, that one thing I wanted you to talk about because so I teach our audience. Most of our people coming through are building funnels, but they're also like doing one to many selling so webinars, challenges, things like that. And there's a million different things I teach them, but there's, there's one Thing that you taught your phone sales guys that I thought was interesting. It's very applicable to. To people who are speaking other ways. And it's. You went deep into tonality, which I wouldn't even know how to go for more than like 20 seconds teaching tonality. But I think there's like an hour long DVD or something of you just going deep into that. Would you explain the tonality and how that works on the phone? And then we can kind of liken that to how people can use that when they're speaking in other, other situations, you know?
- [18:58]
Jordan Belfort
All right. Well, it also works tonality on paper. In other words, when you're writing copy in a funnel, there's tonality there and it's based on punctuation and pacing and ellipses and highlighting something or using an italicis. Yeah, you could put tonal. And that's what I learned to do when I wrote is creating language patterns and punctuating things in a certain way, even misspelling certain words. Creating tonality on paper. Right. But let's get to it verbally, right? Because it's really. Tonality is like, this is really the secret weapon of influence. And what happens is that, you know, there are different ways that we communicate, right. One is the words that we say, right. This is basic NLP stuff. I'm sure you studied it. Right. Another is body language. Right. And then there's tonality, the way in which you say things now on the phone, body language collapses into tonality. They can't really see you, but based on how you sound, they'll make a mental image of you. They'll imagine what you look like. Right? So, for example, there are some people like myself, naturally I have perfect tonality that is born that way. And I'm not the only person. There's many people that have perfect tonality when it comes to sales because there's tonality in regular communication, like you're talking to a friend or telling a story. Then there's what I call goal oriented communication, meaning there's a specific outcome in mind. You're trying to persuade someone, trying to achieve a goal, right? So when you're dealing with goal oriented communication, the rules change somewhat, right? And the first thing is that you want to be perceived a certain way. I always say, sharp as attack, enthusiastic as hell, and an expert in your field. You want to be perceived that way. Why? Because what it chunks up to is people will say you're a person worth listening to because you can help them achieve their goals. We want to Seek out experts to help us achieve our goals, solve our problems. We conditions since we. Yay big. Right? So the million dollar question is, you know, well, how long do you have? You have four seconds. It's instant. It's an unconscious reaction, a gut reaction, right? So if you have four seconds to do it, how. That's the million dollar question. Is it through the words you say? Well, what could you say in four seconds? Hey, I'm sharp as attack. I'm enthusiastic. I swear. I'm an expert. People. What the. There is no words right now. You could say the wrong words. Hi, I'm a moron, nice to meet you. But. Right, but it doesn't come with the words, Right. The way you do it is through tonality and when you're in person, in body language. But let's talk about totality on the phone, right? So for me, give you a quick example. So you're a salesperson. You're on the telephone, right? And you said to someone, you cold calling or not just cold, but you're calling back a lead that you have that. That you know, answered an ad on Facebook, say, hi, this is Jordan Belfort calling from XYZ Company in New York. How are you today? Now, I would never do that. By the time you have halfway through, like, oh, my God, another salesman called me. Why the hell did I freaking do this? Who the hell is this freaking Jordan Belfort? Oh, my. And they already hate you, right? But what I would say, hey. I would say, hey, Jordan Belfort calling from XYZ Company in New York. How you doing? They're like, oh, what? I'm phrasing things that are declaratives, but I'm stating them like the questions. So you say, hey, it's Jordan Belfort. You're like, who waked? Do I know Jordan Belfort? Wait, I'm supposed to. My mother told me when I was five that I'm not supposed to forget people's names. And all of a sudden, it's like they start to process, trying to keep up with the inference of the tonality. And I say, from XYZ Co. They're like, Do I know XYZ Co. You? By phrasing, as a question, you send their mind into search mode. And they're like, in New York, they're like, what do I go to? They say, how you doing today? Now, I don't say, how are you today? How are you today means you know that I know that. I know that you know, I don't give a shit how you're doing today? It's a perfunctory greeting that humans give each other. How you doing today? Screw you, right? But I say, how you doing today? And they're like, whoa, he really wants to know. And they're like, okay, my great. Now, if you recall, you filled out a form, and I lower my voice and I imply scarcity of information. So what's happening is here is every time you apply a tonality, the person who's listening hears extra words that are unsplit. You're not saying the words, but they're hearing. Like, I said, how you doing today? Saying, wow, he really wants to know. They hear those words, they process those words unconsciously. When I say, hey, it's Jordan Belfort, like, what do I know? Jordan Belfort. So what happens is, instead of them narrating against you, like when you speak to someone, you're listening and you're saying, well, what is this guy? Who is this idiot? Either they're narrating against you, their own internal monologue, or your tonality is so rich that they just try to keep up and figure out all the extra words they're hearing in those first five seconds, right? If you do this right, they'll be like, oh, good, I'm doing good. They're so confusing. It's like, you know what the spinning wheel of death is in a computer? Right? When you overload the RAM of a computer, the random access mode, the wheel starts to spin. It can't process anymore. What's happening is the human mind, brain has got two. Two parts is the conscious mind and unconscious mind. Conscious mind is what you're focusing on. It has very limited processing power. You can only see so much. The rest gets deleted and goes to your unconscious mind, which is based on patterns of behavior. All the patterns that we know, we know what experts are supposed to look like and sound like, and we know what they don't sound like and look like, right? So what happens is when I start layering on all these tonalities throughout an entire presentation, I'm always switching and layering on what's happening is I'm in control of their unconscious, their monologue, and the spinning wheel of death, they overloaded with extra words. So what happens if the faults to their unconscious mind and I hit a pattern and says, wow, this guy sounds like an expert. I'm supposed to let experts control the conversation because I defer to experts because they can help me solve my problems. So by sounding like an expert and by hitting that pattern and overwhelming their ability to understand all the later tonalities, you're instantly taking control of a conversation. Okay? And that's the first step of straight line communication is take immediate control of the conversation. Right? And the way you do it is through the use of tonality and certain words. And then once you do that, you don't use that control to talk, talk, talk, talk. You start asking questions. And you ask questions in certain tonalities. I'm not going to say, so how much you owe on your credit cards? They'll say, screw you say, so how much do you owe on your credit cards? Right. Every question has got its own best tonality. So as you go through a sales presentation, right, you're applying. There are 10 core tonalities. You're applying them as strategic points in the sale. And when you do it right, it just sounds amazing. You're like people listening, wow, that guy sounds good. Wow. He's an expert. That's why Leo sounded so good when he was pitching on the phone in the Wolf of Wall Street. I taught him how to sound amazing on the phone. Those were certain tonalities. He was. And he was speeding up, slowing down, all this sort of stuff, right? And here's the thing, you say, wow, this is really complicated. No, it's not. It's the easiest thing to learn because here's the deal. Every human being has used all 10 of these tonalities at some point in their life. They just use them when they really felt that way. Like when you really felt empathetic and you felt sincere and I'm really sorry, we've all used that. We've all been absolutely certain about. I'm so certain we possess the ability. But the question is, do you apply them at the right time for goal oriented communication? Once you start learning how to do it and rewire your brain, it. It just like it opens up the spigot and your brain starts to do it automatically. So it's one of the easier things I teach people. And it's incredibly powerful.
- [26:44]
Russell Brunson
So cool. What? Off the top of your head, you riff off with the 10. The 10 tonalities are. I didn't know they're 10 now. Now I'm like curious certain people.
- [26:51]
Jordan Belfort
Yeah. Let's start with certainty, scarcity, right? You have certainty, scarcity. You have the reasonable man. You have. Or you have utter sincerity, right? You have phrasing a declarative like a question. You have the. I really wanted no tonality. You have hypothetical tonality. Well, how many is that or seven? That's seven. Okay.
- [27:13]
Russell Brunson
What else do without warning.
- [27:15]
Jordan Belfort
Yeah, yeah. There's this 10 of them all together. Reasonable man. Sincerity. Whatever. You can look them up on the website.
- [27:22]
Russell Brunson
Yeah. Ask, Chat, GPT.
- [27:25]
Jordan Belfort
Let me give you an example, by the way. So when I close, I would say to you, you know, Bill, you give me one shot. You give me one shot. That's like certainty, right? You just give me one shot, and believe me, you're gonna be very, very impressed. Sound fair enough? So that's three tonalities in one. It's. It's absolute certainty into utter sincerity, into the reasonable men. Sound fair enough? I'm reasonable. There's something called implied obviousness. That's number eight, by the way. I'll get there. The truth is, I haven't been. I mean, so busy with, like, other companies. I haven't even, like, been really focusing on it that much. But they're a tenant and they're really powerful when you use them the right way, it's like, you know, it makes it much easier to close. It really does. Incredibly so.
- [28:09]
Russell Brunson
So cool.
- [28:09]
Jordan Belfort
Yeah.
- [28:10]
Russell Brunson
Thanks for sharing that. I think that was one that just had such a profound impact on me. And again, I don't do phone sales, but I'm doing reels on. On Facebook and Instagram, I'm doing webinar. Like, the same concepts are working, right? Even if you're not speaking, like, on the phone, it's the same things, like, you know, Instagram, you got three seconds to get them to stop the. Stop the scroll. So same principles are there. That's going to keep someone from hanging up the phone. You know, I'll give you one better.
- [28:32]
Jordan Belfort
Even. Even, like on a sales letter, right? Even the way you. You construct things where some things are in bold type, some things are a little bit less. Then you have the story and you break it up. You ask for the order, then you keep going as you ask. You might have a place to click here, and you keep selling more, right? And when you do a video, and there's a video on a lot of these landing pages, right, you know, how do you sound on the video? Are you keeping someone's attention? Are you engaging? Do you sound like, listen, do you sound like an expert? Do you sound sincere? Do you sound like someone that you'd want to actually have either meant to you, someone you would trust, someone you'd want to buy from or at least find out more about it? So. And you know, and you say, watch. You could say, do you sound sincere? Do you trust me? And do you want to, you know, buy from me? And Think I'm an expert? You're like, get the hell out of here. Versus do you sound sincere? Can you trust me? Like, the way you phrase things is part of. But it's how the tonality that you apply either moves someone emotionally or doesn't. And you're monotone. You people will tune out and they'll change the page, they'll click off the page. It's really important.
- [29:41]
Russell Brunson
Yeah. So good. So cool. Thanks for sharing that. Now we explain. So straight line persuasion, we explain what that actually means because you're. You're tied to the entire sale. I'd love for people to understand that and we can talk about some of the pieces to keep someone on a straight line.
- [29:57]
Jordan Belfort
Yeah. So basically the idea of straight line persuasion is that essentially every sale's the same. That doesn't mean everyone has the same needs and values and pain points. What it means is that there are certain core elements that must line up in a prospect's mind before you have any chance of closing them. Right. And three of those things are called the three tens. We call them the tens because imagine a one to ten on a continuum of certainty. Like ten means someone's absolutely certain and a one means they're absolutely uncertain. Like ten, I think, is the best thing in the world. Best things is sliced bread. Let's use clickbunnels. People that they. Before they sign up for clickfunnels, they think that clickfunnels is the absolute greatest platform in the world. They just. They love it. That's a 10, right? A one would be. It's the biggest piece of crap in the world. It sucks. I would never use. It's like, it's buggy. It doesn't. No one clicks on it. It's ugly. It's hard to use. Right. 10 means it's the greatest thing in the world. So here's a question. If you want someone to subscribe to clicks funnels, where do you want them on that scale? As close to a 10 as possible or as close to a 1 as possible.
- [31:05]
Russell Brunson
10.
- [31:07]
Jordan Belfort
Right. Okay. So let's say that you get someone to attend and they're thinking that. Right. Question is, will they subscribe? Yes or no. That people. Oh, of course. Well, the answer is not yes. It's not no. It's maybe. What if the person who's selling them click funnels or even you, by the way, let's say they don't trust you, the owner of clickfunnels or the person that's trying to sell them. Good. You think the person to steal my data. I can't trust them. They're going to lie to me that I'm going to get bad customer. So it's not enough that you love a product, you have to also trust the person who's selling you the product. The salesperson. Right. So in that continuum for the salesperson, a 1 to a 10 and 10 means oh my God, I love this salesperson. The most trustworthy sales person in the world. They took the time to answer my questions. They're honest, they're forthright, they gave great explanations. And I just, I would let them watch my kids and watch my bank account. I live in the most trustworthy person in the world, a woman. Be as a snake in the grass. I wouldn't let turn my back on them. They'd stick the knife in in two seconds.
- [32:12]
Russell Brunson
If you've been following me for any amount of time, you know I always talk about as you're growing and scaling your company, the most important thing is finding the who, not the how. Who is the person that can help you drive more traffic. Who is the person that could be your CEO. Who is the person that could build your funnels. Understanding the who will dramatically speed up the growing and the scaling of your company. Now, the best place to find the who's who can help you with your vision is Indeed. When it comes to hiring, the right who's Indeed is all you need. Indeed gives you the ability to stop struggling to get your job post seen on other sites. Because Indeed's got a sponsored job listing where you can stand out in front of your dream hires. With these sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates. That means your funnel builder is going to see it. That means the person driving traffic to your funnels is going to see it. It means your new CEO or CMO or whatever you're looking for is going to see the exact ad for your business as soon as they open up. Indeed. And that makes a huge difference. In fact, according to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. One of the things I love about Indeed is it makes hiring so fast. You can post the job and within minutes you're getting applications who are coming in looking to become the who inside of your business. Prior to that, I was often posting my help wanted ads on Facebook and Instagram and getting tons and tons of responses from unqualified people who had no idea what they were doing. Whereas Indeed, again, they're only being seen by the exact person I'm looking to hire now with Indeed sponsored jobs. There's no monthly subscriptions. There's no long term contracts. You only pay for results. You may be wondering how fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been talking to you. So far, 23 hires were made on Indeed across the Indeed network. So there's no longer need to wait any longer. You can speed up your hiring right now by going to Indeed and listeners of the Show Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your job more visible by going to indeed.com clicks just go to indeed.com C L I C K S right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com clicks terms and conditions apply. Are you hiring? Indeed is all you need.
- [34:04]
Jordan Belfort
Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe, discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and and Made. Well, it's easy too, with free shipping and free returns in store order pickup and more. Shop today in stores online@nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. So let's say you love a product but that you're a one for the salesperson. Will you buy? No way. You'll find if you love it that much, you find someone else to sell it to. You'll find the product somewhere else. Right? So it's not enough to love just a product. You also to trust the person selling you. That's the second 10. The third 10 would be the company that stands behind the product. In other words, there's a company that's got to deliver customer service that's going to happen that you're going to be with the long term. What's their reputation? Their reputation for being honest or dealing unfairly with people. So in other words, those three core elements, right. If any one of those things is low on the scale, good luck trying to close someone now. They're not going to say, russell, I don't trust you. That's not what they say. That's kind of in your face. So what people say is sounds good. Let me think about it. Oh yeah, let me call you back. It's a bad time of year right now. I don't have enough money. You get hit with common objections when people are uncertain when they're asked with making a buying decision and they're uncertain about it, they'll say let me think about it. Let Me call you back. So objections are essentially smoke screens for uncertainty. Now, sometimes they can be real, like, no money. Sometimes people literally have no money. Which is why when I'm training salespeople, we will qualify them financially, if possible. You always want to qualify people financially to make sure you're speaking to someone, that if they like it, if it makes sense to them, if, if you get them certain, can they afford it? If you don't do that, what's the point? You're wasting their time and yours, right? You tell them all this amazing thing, it's so great, and you didn't even ask if they could afford it. They're like, it sounds good, but I'm broke. What's the point of that? Right? So there's sort of these rules about, you know, what questions do you ask? And this is all done on a line. So in other words, there's an open, there's a close. And the idea is that there's. The sale has like the five points. There's that in the first four seconds. You need to take control of that conversation by sounding like an expert that's using the right tonality and some basic words, right? Then you want to essentially immediately transition to more of a consultative side where you start asking questions. We call that gathering intelligence, right? You don't want to just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, right? God gave you two ears and one mouth. You want to listen twice as much as you talk. So you want to ask questions, gather intelligence, identify needs, values, pain points, right? And as you're doing that, you're like, huh? You keep. You're building massive rapport by asking questions, using the, using the right tonalities, and also how you listen. Do you. Are you a robot? They ask, huh, okay, huh? Or you I understand. Oh, yeah, I understand. When you start showing the emotion, I understand you. I feel your pain. Sometimes people will answer something and I'll then take it further and sort of, sort of clarify their own answer. Show my. That my command of the subject. And like, exactly. That's how I feel. That's what's going on. So this qualifies this whole question, this whole questioning, this down, intelligence, it's such a crucial part of selling, because what if you do this, right? By the time you've asked all the questions you need to ask, which means you've identified their needs, their values, pay, whatever it might be, whatever the industry is, right? By the time you're done, they should be saying, wow, this guy's good. He really cares, man. This guy was thorough. He Gets me, he understands me. Not just like he asked me three questions. So I close the hell out of me, right? So sometimes people don't ask enough questions. You need to ask not too many questions, but you want to ask the right amount of questions so you fully understand the picture. And then when you're done asking those questions, next step is they will. Jim, Jill, John, you know, based on what you said to me, this program is a perfect fit for you. Let me show you why. Now, if it is a perfect fit, if it's not, if you can't help them, say, you know, honestly, based on what you said, it's not really right for you. I don't want to waste your time. I think you should might send them somewhere else if you can't help them. Like this idea. There's a transition here. You don't want to take everyone down the straight line to the end because why, if they're not financially qualified, if your product's not going to really help them, if they're better off somewhere, all you do is waste your time, waste the client's time, they have a bad experience and give your company a bad name. So there's this transition point where you, after you ask all the questions, say, well, is this person right for my product? Can I help them? And if the answer hopefully is yes, then you just say, well listen, based on what you said to me, this is a perfect, not based on what you said to me, this is a perfect fit for you. Let me show you. Say now, Jim, based on what you said, this is a perfect fit for you. Let me tell you why they're like great, say now. And then now I'm in the main body of my presentation where I start essentially naming a feature but then expounding on the benefit, tailoring it to them. And I'm not going to go too crazy. I'm going to go maybe three, four key things. And then when I'm done, I'll explain the process. And now getting started is very simple. Now give them a simple way to get started. It's a question of doing X, Y, Z. And believe me, Jim, the only problem you'll have is you didn't do this six months ago because you'd already have all the benefits. Sound fair enough? And then I shut up right now they're going to what can they, what can they say? They can say yes, they could say no, or they could say maybe. And maybe is a catch all for all the common objections. What else can they say? They say yes, no, maybe, or Ask you a question, right? So if they hit me with an objection, right, Then I'm going to go about this. Now, it's called the back half of the straight line, where I start overcoming objections in a very low pressure, very effective way called looping, where you actually essentially take a common objection and you answer it and you use it as a. You don't just answer an objection and then close us and then try to close. That's. That's a fool's errand. Why? Because objections are smokescreens. So if you say to me, I want to think about it, and I say, listen, you don't really need to think about it. I know you're busy, but you'll go back to your busy light, you'll decide against it. Just give me one shot, believe me. But the truth is, the reason you said you wanted to think about it is you were uncertain about making. You didn't know enough about the product, yet. You weren't sure it was the right decision. In other words, whether it was the first, 10, second, or third was something you were uncertain of. So I'm not going to simply just answer objection and then try to close you. I'm going to answer objection. I'm going to loop back and essentially pick up where I left off and start building more certainty for each of the three tensions. It's like essentially constructing a house, right? You don't do it all at once. The first thing is you put up the frame. You frame the house, right? Then I ask for the order. You don't buy. Great. I go back, I put the drywall on, I install some electronics, right? That's my. I do it again. You don't buy, maybe you're a little bit more certain. I loop back, answer that, check back again. Now, I put on the roof, I put on some nice decorations. So each time I'm looping back and building more and more certainty. And eventually, if you get someone certain enough in a way that's not offensive to them, right, they're going to cross over this thing called their action threshold, which is, you know, how certain does any one individual need to be before they say, you know what? And I'll take action. I'm ready to go, right? And it differs for every person. In other words, it's people like me. I'm a sucker. I buy stuff. I am really easy to sell to. I really am, right? So, like, what does that mean? My beliefs are such that my best decisions are made quickly. I trust generally, the glasses half full, that's me. My dad, may he rest in peace, he was the exact opposite. He was the toughest not to crack. He hated salespeople, right? Didn't trust anybody, right? We called him Mad Max, right? He hated. So what does that mean? Well, I have what's called a low action threshold, meaning I don't got to be that certain. I got to be like a 777. Like, I'm not going to do it for four because I'm not going to buy something I think is going to make my life worse. But if I'm reasonably certain, I'll buy, right? If it's not that much, man, why not, right? My dad had to be a 10, 10, 10 and damn sure of it, right? So now you start running into these two different types of people. And that's why sometimes when you're trying to close, when you're like, God, they sound really certain, they're still not buying. Why? I know they got the money. Why? They have a very high action threshold. So there are strategies we use the straight line system that actually help lower someone's action threshold. For example, what is a guarantee? Money back guarantee, lowest action threshold, it allows someone to process it. What's the worst? Because everyone's saying, what's the worst thing that possibly happens? A question everyone asks themselves before they buy. Well, if I can cash in my, my money back guarantee, I guess it's really not that much risk. So they start to process it lowers their action threshold. Another way is to just say, hey, what's the worst that can happen? Let's say you buy it doesn't work, you put it out there, right? Well, you cash, you guarantee you won't lose a penny. It's not going to put you in the poor house. My right, they'll say, no. Well, I guess not, right? Exactly. But on the upside, if this is even half as good as I think it is, and you get X benefit, and this benefit, in six months from now, you're feeling better, looking better, feeling. And then I future pace them, which is what people like my dad never do. People with low, with high access, they never look at the upside. And I future pace them, paint the upside. And as I do that, they're experiencing what someone like me like a low action. I always think, oh, if I do this, it'll work out great. So essentially I'm using language to hijack their strategy of running negative movies about, about their buying decisions. And I essentially hijack that movie, paint the positive picture, which they never do for themselves. And then I go into a closer John, you give me one shot and believe me, you know, you're going to be so glad you did this. Does that sound fair enough? And you shut up. And by the way, when you do that right, it works really, really well.
- [44:31]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, that is such a good map of the entire straight line right there. That was amazing. You know, so cool.
- [44:38]
Jordan Belfort
Sort of one tonality, I forgot, but other than that, everything's great.
- [44:40]
Russell Brunson
You know, I'll add that in the show notes. We'll put them all in. So cool, man. I appreciate this. Okay, one last question and I'll let you go because I know you're busy, but I also know you're working on, you know, I know you're in the forefront of this. Do you think that like in the future and all people are testing out different AI sales tools and that like, you know, when you built your company initially you trained a whole bunch of salespeople to go through this process and how to just speak tonality? Do you think AI is gonna get the spot where someday it could replace humans to actually do a lot of this type of closing?
- [45:09]
Jordan Belfort
So I actually do have a company that's working on that right now and it's been going incredibly well. We're still in stealth mode. So I really can't talk about it because it's not ready to scale yet. But I think the answer is yes. But I don't think it really replaces all salespeople. Okay. I think certainly it's going to replace some salespeople. Okay. But I think there's always going to be a need for a great salesperson that really, you know, that, that, that knows how to build long term relationships with people, not just clothes. But I have an AI that's so good at closing. It's like me in an AI. It's like me. It sells like me. Doesn't sound like my voice, but it sounds like, uses my tonalities. We have our own voice. But again, you know, I'm taking this technology very carefully, very slowly because, you know, you got to just make sure that, you know, one of the things that, you know this, I'm sure you went through this in the beginning of ClickFunnels, that it's not enough to have an amazing platform. You have to be able to onboard everybody correctly. And if you can't onboard people and they start having bad customer service experiences, it causes a big problem. So we have some very, very big clients using the system right now. They're getting incredible 50x returns. But you know, we're about, we're about three months away from being able to really scale it. You know, we can have like, almost not quite touchless onboarding, but touchless to the point where, you know, you don't gotta call. Let's say the AI itself can help you do everything. You'll be speaking to the AI and not someone there AI will be doing it for you. But it's really powerful. And I think that it's not just in sales. It's gonna change everything. I'm sure you're already infusing AI into your platform. Sure. You are. Powerful technology. I love it. I use it every day. I taught myself to code. Believe it. Yeah. And it's, it's incredible. And I think I would say everybody that's watching this should really, you know, get yourself up on how to use it. It just takes one person and makes them into five or 10 that it's a multiplier. So I don't think it replaces everybody. But certainly it's going to be pressure on, on the, on sales for sure and many other industries as well, to be at the top of your game.
- [47:13]
Russell Brunson
Yeah, no, I agree. It's. It's exciting time to be alive and playing and testing all these different things out. And like you said, if you're not using your business now, it's crazy. Like we, we add AI in front of our ticketing system and dropped our tickets by like 60, 70% where AI is answering questions and then people can't get past that. Goes back to normal human. But like that, you know, it's such a straight. It's such a, like a good barrier. Just chaos and support, you know, that, that AI is able to handle force and that's just one use case, you know, it's pretty cool.
- [47:39]
Jordan Belfort
And I think, I think also that, you know, with AI, you know, it never gets sick, it never comes in late.
- [47:46]
Russell Brunson
You can do, you can do it in every language if you need it to. It's amazing.
- [47:50]
Jordan Belfort
It's really stable up or down. It's like, it's got a lot of benefits. So it's. And as good as my AI is today, it's the worst it will ever be. Yeah, it gets better every day.
- [47:59]
Russell Brunson
Yeah. So cool. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate you spending time with me today and my audience and sharing the stuff. I think everything you're sharing is applicable. We have a lot of people who run phone teams in our, in our community, but also I think all these things are applicable. If you're doing a webinar or a challenge or like all these, the principles of persuasion and speaking and selling and resolving concerns like it. Matt, you can use the same things in all these different places and I think it's super valuable. So I appreciate you spending the time and I want to tell everyone who who's seen the movie but not read the book, they should go read the book part one and part two. I think it'll give you a different perspective of you and it's really fun. And I said it's an. You did a great job writing those books as well. So thank you.
- [48:33]
Jordan Belfort
Thank you.
- [48:34]
Russell Brunson
Thanks man. Always appreciate you.
- [48:36]
Jordan Belfort
Take care. Bye. Bye.
- [48:38]
Russell Brunson
Bye. Now obviously if you want to sell stuff online, you're going to need a good funnel. But if you want a great funnel, then you're going to need to use ClickFunnels. ClickFunnels is the number one funnel builder in the world, helping more first time entrepreneurs to leave their 9 to 5 and to launch their dream than any other company on earth. ClickFunnels was built for the dreamer and the doer. And you can get a free 14 day trial by going to clickfunnels.com podcast right now. That's clickfunnels.com podcast. Click funnels because you're one funnel away from changing the world.