Podcast Summary: The Ryan Leak Podcast

Episode: When Phenomenal Skill Meets Phenomenal Will
Host: Ryan Leak
Date: November 10, 2025

Episode Overview

In "When Phenomenal Skill Meets Phenomenal Will," Ryan Leak explores the interplay between skill and will—and how their combination creates not only success, but lasting impact. Using engaging real-world examples from sports and business (notably entrepreneur Jamie Kern Lima), Ryan inspires listeners to value perseverance just as much, if not more, than talent. The episode delivers clear takeaways on building resilience and grit, encouraging listeners to keep showing up even when faced with adversity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Phenomenal Skill vs. Phenomenal Will

[00:20] - [02:30]

• Phenomenal Skill:

  • Observable, measurable, and often a result of hours of practice (e.g., a quarterback's pass, a surgeon’s precision, a chef’s creativity).
  • Referenced the "10,000 hour rule" popularized by Malcolm Gladwell.
  • "Skill is trackable, I would argue skill is trainable... You can usually point to where it came from. It was hours of practice, it was thousands of reps..." — Ryan Leak, [00:45]

• Phenomenal Will:

  • Intangible, only revealed in adversity; “Will is invisible until life gets hard.”
  • The ability to persevere after setbacks: showing up to work after loss, supporting a child despite exhaustion, relentless entrepreneurial pitching.
  • "Skill, it's what makes you capable. But phenomenal Will, it's what makes you unstoppable." — Ryan Leak, [02:10]

2. Research on Will and Perseverance (Grit)

[02:30] - [03:05]

• Cites Angela Duckworth’s research on "grit," defined as “the combination of passion and perseverance toward a long term goal.”
• Noted that in Duckworth’s studies, grit consistently outperformed both talent and IQ as a predictor of success.
• "In other words, phenomenal will carries more weight than phenomenal skill." — Ryan Leak, [03:00]

3. When Skill and Will Collide

[03:06] - [05:30]

• Pairing skill and will is the formula for legendary achievement.
• Offers vivid analogies:
  • Skill: Knowing how to run a marathon.
    Will: Crossing the finish line on a busted ankle.
  • Skill: Giving the presentation.
    Will: Giving it again after rejection.
  • Skill: Hitting free throws in practice.
    Will: Sinking them at championship point.
• "When skill and will collide, well, that's when legends are made." — Ryan Leak, [03:15]

4. Real-World Examples of Phenomenal Will

[05:31] - [07:28]

• Sports: Serena Williams (comebacks), Michael Jordan (flu game), Tiger Woods (Masters win after injuries).
  • "They all had skill for sure. But it was their will that made history." — Ryan Leak, [06:05]
• Entrepreneur Story: Jamie Kern Lima, founder of IT Cosmetics.
  • From TV anchor with skin issues to self-made CEO.
  • Developed product skillfully but faced repeated harsh rejections: “Some told her flat out, women won't buy makeup from someone who doesn't look like a model.”
  • Persevered through financial hardship and no after no.
  • Breakthrough came with a high-stakes QVC appearance—she presented herself authentically on live TV and the product sold out in 10 minutes.
  • Eventually sold IT Cosmetics to L’Oreal for $1.2 billion; became first female CEO in company’s 100-year history.
  • "Phenomenal skill helped her make a great product, but phenomenal will helped her survive thousands of no's. She didn't get lucky. She got gritty." — Ryan Leak, [07:15]

5. Practical Takeaways for Listeners

[07:29] - [08:30]

• You might not be building a billion-dollar brand, but everyone is working on something that requires willpower.
• Will manifests in everyday perseverance: applying for jobs after rejection, leading a classroom, managing a team, upholding family commitments during hard times.
• “Phenomenal will isn’t reserved for the elite. You don’t need a platform or spotlight to have it. You just need a decision.” — Ryan Leak, [08:17]
• Skill starts the journey, but will powers you through setbacks to the finish line.
  • “Skill may give you the ability to start, but will gives you the power to finish. Skill can open the door, but will is what keeps you in the room.” — Ryan Leak, [08:30]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Will is invisible until life gets hard." — Ryan Leak, [01:45]
• “Skill is how you play the game. But will is how you keep playing, even when you're losing.” — Ryan Leak, [08:45]
• "When phenomenal skill meets phenomenal will, you're impossible to beat." — Ryan Leak, [09:00]

Important Timestamps

• 00:20 — Introduction to skill vs. will
• 02:30 — Grit research by Angela Duckworth
• 03:06 — When skill and will combine: analogies
• 05:31 — Sports legends’ willpower
• 06:10 — Jamie Kern Lima story begins
• 07:29 — Practical application for the listener
• 08:30 — Encouragement: keep showing up

Tone & Delivery

Ryan Leak delivers the episode in a conversational, high-energy style, blending inspirational storytelling with actionable wisdom. His relatable examples and compassionate encouragement reinforce that grit is attainable by anyone willing to keep showing up, no matter the odds.

If you need a jolt of inspiration to persist beyond your skillset—especially in tough seasons—this episode is a must-listen.