← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Best and Worst Teams in the NFL With Albert Breer. Plus, Craig Kilborn on His New Podcast Venture.
01:49:49
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- [00:00]
Ryan Russillo
Foreign.
- [00:11]
Craig Kilborn
Pod Today we're going to talk football, NFL football. Go through a bunch of off season storylines with Albert Brer, who we love talking to. And we got Craig Kilborn stopping by. You never know where that's going to go. Probably some Bob Evans and life advice before Wargon's big day. He's one of our favorites to talk to and he's doing it while he's on vacation, so we appreciate his effort. Albert Breer, SI.com Monday morning quarterback and you can check him out with us occasionally throughout the season as well. Man, thanks for doing this. How are you?
- [00:43]
Albert Breer
I'm good, I'm good. How you doing, Ryan?
- [00:45]
Craig Kilborn
Good. Good. All right, so let's, let's get through kind of like as we ramp up for camp here in the preseason schedule, which is a few weeks away, let's talk kind of generally about where we're at right now. Who do you think had the best? Give me the collection of teams you thought had the best off season.
- [01:01]
Albert Breer
Yeah, I, you know, it's, you look at some of the contenders and, you know, I actually look at the teams that did the best to kind of build some momentum for themselves going into the year based on where they were last year. I think one that to me is at least interesting now, they still have one outstanding contract issue would be Buffalo because they had, I think, really like what was a reset year last year. They still made it to the conference title game. They're able to get a lot of their contract situations taken care of. So they just got really good momentum going into the season. Now, you know, is there some sort of over the top move that they made? No, but I really like where they are. New England's an obvious one. I think basically what they did was a carbon copy of what Washington did last year where they went and brought in guys who are sort of middle of the roster, guys that'll help lay a foundation. And all of those guys have connections to coach, a coach or coaches on their staff. Carlton Davis played for Terrell Williams last year in Detroit. Spillane played for McDaniels in Vegas and you know, was with Brable before that in Tennessee. Harold Landry played for Variable in Tennessee. So you go down the list of the guys they acquired and so much of it's like guys who are going to at least get you up to level ground at certain positions and you had background with which is again exactly what the commanders did a year ago, you know. And then, you know, looking at like the teams in the nfc, I, I think what Minnesota did. Now a lot of it's going to ride on J.J. mcCarthy, right? But I really like how they, they, they dove into, like, what got them beat last year and dove into, like, where they felt like their weakness was they felt like they weren't tough enough in the middle of the lines. And so they went and they got Ryan Kelly and Will Fries from the Colts. Then they doubled down in the first round of the draft and draft Donovan Jackson, you know, for their offensive line. Christian Derrisau is coming back from the torn acl, and then they had Jonathan Allen to their defensive line. And, and so I, I, I think, you know, you look at what Minnesota did, and I think that there's a real logic to what they did. We'll see how JJ plays. Same thing with Chicago. You know, Chicago really went in on their offensive line and bringing in Jonah Jackson and Joe Tuney and Drew Dman. You know, I just, I, I, I look at like the, and this not, they're not sexy moves, but I think, you know, those teams, like, really kind of built a foundation for themselves.
- [03:37]
Craig Kilborn
You brought up something that I think is really interesting and very specific to the NFL, and that's when new coaches, new coordinators are in place. It's like, all right, how many guys can I find that have played for me that I can bring over here? And I think it's very specific for certain units where there's pass rushers. You can be like, what happened to that guy? It's like, well, they're asking him to do something entirely different. And in this system, he's going to be a force, and in that system, he's going to be invisible. I think guys in the secondary, it can be very similar, probably receiver or it's like, well, if you're asking this guy to beat somebody on go routes on the outside, all game long, like, that's not really who it is. But we have to find ways to get him open, maybe in the middle of the field, and then he's an entirely different guy. But I also think it can come down to maybe the evaluation of the previous coach having somebody going, no, no, let me get him back, because I know what he's good at already. But also the addition of having somebody who understands what your system is and what your philosophy is to then coach it to the other players, I think that's incredibly unique. And I mean, basketball, it's just like, look, you can have a system, but it's, it's pretty straightforward. Baseball's pretty straightforward. The NFL, it feels like the first thing new coaches do when they get into a place is like, let me find three or four guys that know how I operate, right?
- [04:50]
Albert Breer
And Washington, I think that was what was so smart about what Washington did. Now, I don't know that anybody could have predicted Jaden Daniels would play as well as he did. They loved him, obviously, coming out, you know, draft in second overall if you don't love him. But, like, the idea that he would do something historic that obviously is going to exceed expectations, and that. That's what gets them to 12 wins. The conference was like, a little. The NFC was soft last year, so I think that gave them a little bit of a window to reach a conference title game, although they did beat Detroit along the way. But the names are not like, no. 1. No one at this point last year said, oh, Washington crushed the off season because they signed Dorrance Armstrong and Dante Fowler, who Dan Quinn had in Dallas, because they brought back Bobby Wagner, who Dan Quinn had had in Seattle all those years ago, even, like an Austin Eckler who was with Anthony Lynn, right? Like, when. When. When a ln was the Chargers coach, you just know what you're getting. You know what I mean? Like, there's no projection. It's like, I know how I can use this guy. We're not expecting too much out of him, and he's going to be able to go into that room and be a teacher of what we're trying to accomplish to the rest of the players. It really gives you a chance to get up and running fast. And so I think Washington did a really good job with that. And again, like, no one was sitting here last year saying, like, oh, my God, look at Washington. They got. You know, they got Jeremy Chin and they got. And they got Dorrance Armstrong, and now they're going to the NFC title game. But, like, the. The. The sum of all of those moves was we hit a bunch of singles and doubles, and now all of a sudden, we put seven runs on the board. You know what I mean? So to speak. And I think that there. There's a logic to that that, I mean, again, like. Like you said in football where, you know, how you use a player can be so different from system to system. Like, the amount of certainty that Washington was able to build up and doing what they did, I think was a huge part of them having the improvement that they had. And I think, you know, again, like, I think New England is the sort of facsimile of that this year where they've done something that's Very, very close to what Washington did a year ago and trying to get up to a level, to level ground at a bunch of different spots and knowing exactly what you're out of the players you're bringing in.
- [07:12]
Craig Kilborn
If I said, okay, you could have been 100 bucks and you have to do you, you have to pick these two things. You're more confident in picking the three best teams in the NFL after the season's over or the three worst teams. What would you be more confident?
- [07:32]
Albert Breer
I, I would say maybe three best, but that's tough. Like I would say if you, if, if I had to say 100 bucks, three best teams. I think the obvious thing to do, the safe thing to do would be to say Philly, Kansas City, Buffalo. Probably. Right. Like, am I missing anything there? That's probably it, I think.
- [07:50]
Craig Kilborn
No, because I mean this kind of plays into something else. I mean if you look at the over unders on the season, there's four teams that are 11 and a half and it's the three you said Baltimore is also in there. I've seen Buffalo at 12 and a half wins. Yeah. But only one schedule. Right.
- [08:04]
Albert Breer
Like their schedule is really soft. Yeah.
- [08:06]
Craig Kilborn
So, but basically like across the board where we're at right now on season totals, it's those four teams. So it's hard. Like I almost feel like Kansas City, because they get stomped in the super bowl, that does it feel like everybody's kind of off of them collectively. Like, I don't think anybody thinks they're going to stink, but there's just, I think there's just a different feeling about. Go ahead.
- [08:31]
Albert Breer
I think Kansas City could be better than they were. Like, I, I, like, I know like Matt Nagy had a vision for the offense last summer that was all right. We're going to have, we're going to reintroduce like because they went away from, I mean it's obviously part of a league wide trend, but like everybody was looking for their Tyree Kill. The Chiefs trade Tyree Kill and part of their logic was, well, everybody's running shell coverage and to try to prevent those guys from making a big impact. So. And they're putting tons of DBs in the field. So how are we going to combat that? We're going to be bigger and more physical at the skill positions so we can throw the ball underneath and break tackles and all of that. And then last year they sort of swung back around where it's like, okay, where they draft Xavier worthy, they bring in Hollywood Brown. And the idea was we're going to clear out space with the two guys over the top and then have Rashi Rice and Travis, Travis Kelsey running underneath into. Into open space. And I think that happens. I think that could happen this year. They had Rice for what I have in front of me a month last year, but they felt like he was trending to be a top 10 receiver in the league by the end of the year when he got hurt. We'll see what happens with the disciplinary stuff. Obviously, that's a factor, too. And then Hollywood was hurt. For most of the year. Hollywood and Rice never played together. Xavier Worthy, you could start to see what he was becoming by the end of the year and maybe all this comes together. Pacheco back healthy again. And I think you can count on Steve Spagnolo having a really good defense. Like, to me, like, they've got a chance to be a lot better on offense. They were. Than they were a year ago, which sounds crazy to say. And I think, again, like, I think they're going to be really good on defense because there's a good base of talent on defense. The two X factors, I think, you know, and this is just an age thing, is like, is there a drop off with Kelsey? Is there a drop off Chris Jones? But as long as those guys are playing well, I think the Chiefs could actually be better this year than they were last year.
- [10:28]
Craig Kilborn
Okay, let's just go then to the super bowl winner off of this. If you go back a year ago, the Philadelphia Story's pretty crazy. You know, going into it, it's like, okay, we know how talented they are, the additions. It just feels like they're so aggressive and they're aggressive in the right ways when they're like, hey, if this is somebody who we think is elite at that. That position, let's go for it. I think that they. I love their draft board in the way they go about it, too. It's like, what are we doing? Like, why are we screwing around with this? Granted, you know, Carter was available because of all the issues. So sometimes people can revisit draft history and be like, I can't believe this.
- [11:02]
Albert Breer
Guy stopped me there. I love that. Like, like, look at these idiotic teams. It's like, do you think Jalen Carter would have worked out the same way if, like, he's playing for the Bears? If he was playing, probably wouldn't have been as easy to. To keep that thing on the tracks, you know?
- [11:18]
Ryan Russillo
Well, there's.
- [11:19]
Craig Kilborn
Well, there's that part of it, but I'm more like just the Inaccuracy of, like, I can't believe the league let us get this demon. And you're like, well, there was a reason why he was available to you. But I. I think it goes. It's not just the Carter pick. The Carter pick is its own little box that's a reward for your success.
- [11:35]
Albert Breer
Like, that. You could do that, you know.
- [11:37]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, right, right. And I. I think that when. How he puts together the board and he just goes, like, why are we making this complicated? Like, I think this guy is. Is just a supremely talented dude. And, you know, the depth that they've possibly built here with the youth on the D line would be an incredible, like, turning the page from what they've had before and then just transitioning a unit with that talent is just so hard to do. So anyway, but back to it, it's like, hey, you know, Hertz was clearly hurt last year. They have that great start, but something felt weird. And so it was this kind of hangover from 23 into 24. And you're like, how long is Sirianni going to last? Is Hertz really the guy? And Hertz, as we've learned, doesn't necessarily have to be the guy in that elite class of the top five or six quarterbacks, but that is riding a ship with massive expectations in an incredibly tough market. You know, it's hard to say, hey, they didn't get enough credit when it's like, well, dude, they won the Super Bowl. Everybody's pretty aware of how special the Eagle season was, but it's worth remembering how tenuous that entire situation felt. And I wonder what it's going to be like feeling none of that because they accomplish what they would set out to accomplish.
- [12:47]
Albert Breer
Yeah. And I think, like, I mean, it's like, I'm not breaking any new ground here by saying it, but it's just what they've done on the lines of scrimmage and, like, having guys ready to go when they've lost other guys and, you know, whether it's, you know, if you want to go back, it's like they tried to replace Jason Peters with Andre Dillard, and then they had Jordan Malata behind that. You know, like, when. When Dillard didn't work out, they lose Jason Kelsey and they have, you know, really two answers. Cam Juergens or Landon Dickerson could have played center if they needed him to. And then on the defensive line, losing Fletcher Cox and having Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter there, it's just like their draft and develop machine, is it just Keeps churning. And it's like, you know, we mentioned Jalen Carter, like, Jihad Campbell was somebody that a lot of people felt like was a top 10 player in the draft. But, you know, he's got the injury issues and like, are you okay with the fact that, like, oh, he's had one shoulder done, he might have to have the other shoulder done after the year? Well, if you're the Eagles, you can take that risk because it's not the end of the world if you swing in and you miss on a guy at the end of the first round. So, like, I am interested to see what this looks like without the. And it's. There's never going to be no pressure in Philly. But now you. If you're Nick Sirianni, you've been to two Super Bowls in three years, you've won one. Jalen hurts, same thing. Like, what does this look like without the unrelenting pressure on them and can they keep winning the same way? You know, their offense is a little unique and different. This is going to be their fourth offensive coordinator in four years. That's a factor. You know, like, what does that look like? You're going now to Kevin Petullo after having Kellen Moore last year. You know, so there are some. There is some natural attrition and everything else. But, I mean, I. It's hard not to look at that roster and say the arrow is still pointing up in a lot of areas. And like, all these places where they were getting old a couple years ago, they've now sort of reset and replenished and have ascending players. So it's hard to imagine the Eagles not being like a 12 or 13 win team.
- [15:00]
Craig Kilborn
San Francisco feels like a reset. You know, the, the bill was coming due for Purdy, the number comes in a little bit lower average annual salary than some of his contemporaries. But you go, can they pull this off? And there's still a lot of projections. And I think of Buffalo last year, where it's like, okay, they're kind of having their, their reset year financially. I mean, other than winning a Super Bowl. I mean, it's gone so well for Buffalo. I'm wondering if it's not a blueprint question, but does Buffalo success? And then where they're positioned now, is that the kind of thing San Francisco can look to and say, hey, this can happen where you can still be a contender despite knowing you're going to have to change up your roster here?
- [15:40]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, for sure.
- [15:40]
Albert Breer
I think it's just. It's actually like pretty simple, though. I think, you know, I think a lot of it's just drafting and developing well, you know what I mean? Like you. So much of it is like, well, you know, if you're going to take on 60 million in dead cap or 70 million in dead cap, how do you get around that? You, you have a cheap player who's playing way above his contract because he's still in his rookie deal, you know, and so for Buffalo, like, that's Khalil Shakir coming along. That's Dalton Kincaid and Dawson Knox helping replace some of the production you lost when Stefan Diggs was, was, was gone. It's getting as much as you got out of James Cook. It's Greg Russo becoming a top end pass rusher, even though, you know, Von Miller wasn't everything you thought he was going to be when you signed him. You know, it's all of those things and that's what the Niners are going to need this year. You know, like it's. What does Ricky Pierce all look like? What are you getting out of Juan Jennings? What's IUK look like coming back off the knee because you don't have Debo anymore? What is. Do you have enough depth at running back having lost Mason, who was a really good backup for, for McCaffrey? So much of it, again, so much of it comes down to like what you're developing behind the guys that you're losing and they've drafted really well there over the years. And you know, I still think like you, you take the top five or six guys in their roster, like their core guys, you know, and that'd be like Purdy McCaffrey, Iuk, Bosa, Warner, and then I guess now, you know, you know, Lenore is going through some stuff, but Lenore, they just signed him to a contract. It's like that's still a pretty good core even without some of the guys they lost. And so, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's going to be on Kyle and his staff now to sort of develop the guys, have the guys ready to go. But I think in that division, the schedule that they have, like, I, I would think that that's, I mean, they should have the expectation that Buffalo had going into last year. They'll still be a playoff team, you know. Now that doesn't mean they're going to get back to a conference title game or a Super bowl, but they should still very much be a playoff team based on, on, on their core, on the young talent they have there and, and the division they play in. The schedule they play.
- [17:52]
Craig Kilborn
How bad are the bottom three, then? Because if we bring it back around to. Yeah, so what are we talking about?
- [17:57]
Albert Breer
Tennessee?
- [17:59]
Craig Kilborn
New Orleans.
- [18:00]
Albert Breer
New Orleans.
- [18:01]
Craig Kilborn
Cleveland has more talent than these teams, but they have the quarterback situation. Could.
- [18:06]
Albert Breer
I mean, like. Yeah, I. I like. New Orleans has, like, what could be a really good offensive line, which, you know, if you're good on the lines of scrimmage, you can be competitive week to week. They don't play in the toughest division.
- [18:17]
Craig Kilborn
But just a tough team to figure out. Like, what the. What's the plan?
- [18:21]
Albert Breer
There's no quarterback. I mean, that's. That's. That's what it is. I mean, unless Tyler Shuck becomes like, oh, like, oh, my God, like, the only reason he fell to the second round was because, you know, he's four years older than the other guys. Like, you know, maybe. Maybe that's the answer. But I. I think. I think New Orleans is in this weird spot where, well, they got, like, Mickey Loomis as the gm who doesn't want to bottom out. But I do think there are some people in that building who would like to, like, hey, at some point, we have to reset this. At some point, we have to. To start over a little bit. And I think the car thing kind of pushed them further in that direction. And now, I mean, this would be the year where. I mean, it's funny because you look at, like, the draft next year, and I don't think Arch will come out, but would it be tempting to him if the Saints had the first pick and he played really well? I mean, you and I both know, like, Arch still has a lot of work to do before he's the number one pick in the draft. But, you know, Garrett Nussmeier is the Saints offensive coordinator's son, you know, so, like, there are a lot of reasons, like, for the Saints to be looking at next year's quarterback class, you know, and then. And then I would say Tennessee is probably in that group where, you know, if you're them, like, the expectation is, like, have Cam Ward playing really well by the end of the year. Who else would be down there? See, Cleveland, I think Cleveland, like, you're talking about their quarterback situation, holding them hostage, right? Because I don't think they're that bad. They were. They won 11 games two years ago. Are they that bad?
- [19:53]
Craig Kilborn
No, Clearly, I think they have more talent than a Tennessee or New Orleans. I just. I don't really know. I mean, the thing is, if you go on the totals and it might have more to do with schedule. It's the Saints and Browns at the bottom at four and a half.
- [20:08]
Ryan Russillo
The Browns, the front end of the.
- [20:09]
Albert Breer
Brown schedule is brutal. I think it's like. I remember looking at it, I'm like, It's like hard not to see 06 here, you know, like it's. That doesn't mean they're going to go 06, but it's like. It's like hard to find wins early in their schedule.
- [20:22]
Craig Kilborn
It's Cincy at Baltimore, Green Bay, Detroit, Minnesota. Yeah, those are your first five. And then you're at Pittsburgh, which, you know, division game maybe. Yeah, you know, it's the NFL too. They're not gonna. They're probably not just going to start Owens.
- [20:36]
Albert Breer
Yes.
- [20:37]
Craig Kilborn
I mean, works.
- [20:38]
Albert Breer
What does Indy look like?
- [20:42]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, there's. I mean, other than having like their own triplets, the skill positions, which I don't know that there's necessarily posters of those three guys, maybe they're available at the airport in downtown Indianapolis. But it sounds, I mean, the Daniel Jones thing, like he's going to win the job. Unless Anthony Richardson all of a sudden is incredibly healthy and a completely different person. And this is a long stretch which you kind of understand. It's like we still have to kind of figure out what we have or what we don't have. I think it might be one of those things where everybody else knows what you have and you're hoping you have something different in Richardson. And I don't. I don't know what's going to happen to that group. Obviously with the passing of ownership too.
- [21:23]
Albert Breer
Yeah, the Dolphins are another one who like, they're really funky spot.
- [21:29]
Craig Kilborn
This felt personal because I was reading one of your like, kind of summer hangout. Like, hey, here's a bunch of thoughts on all these different teams. You're right. Okay. Because I think there's also a conversation of like kind of make or break year for QBs and we can get into it. I don't even know that Richardson is on that level. I think Trevor Lawrence is there, but clearly like to a season here probably sets the tone for like, what is his future actually going to be with Miami? Are they looking to make some sort of change? And the way you framed that, you also seemed like you were getting a ton of shit from Dolphins fans. Like I could already see you being pre defensive. So state your Dolphins case. The position of. Of why you would have them this far towards the bottom.
- [22:09]
Albert Breer
So I, I'll compare them to. To Pittsburgh. Right. So like Pittsburgh, I think looked at it like, and this is why they looked at Stafford and then eventually acquire Rogers is because they saw it as all right. So we have like this, we have this, this group of players. At the time it was TJ Watt make a Fitzpatrick, you know, like, like. And you're looking at it and you're saying to yourself and Cam Hayward's obviously at the end, are we ever going to be able to win at the highest level with these guys? Because we've gotten to the playoffs with them, we've been competitive, like, but we haven't won a playoff game since 16. So if we're being honest with ourselves with Justin Fields as the quarterback, are we going to be able to get to a point where we're going to be over the top and we're going to be competing with Baltimore and with, with Cincinnati and with Buffalo and with Kansas City. Teams that have been to the super bowl or knocked the door, knocked on.
- [23:07]
Craig Kilborn
The door of super bowl.
- [23:08]
Albert Breer
And I think they said to themselves, you know what, we maybe have a year or two left, let's just go for it. And that's what every, that, that, that's like every move of their offseason shows that, right? I think the Dolphins were honest with themselves, quietly honest with themselves in another way where it's like, maybe we're not getting there with this group, you know, and maybe we, maybe now is the time to retool. And so Tron Armstead retires, which was a big deal. Replacing the left tackle is not easy. They're gonna have a second round pick from last year. And Patrick Paul playing left tackle. Tyree Kill had his least productive year in, you know, since he was a rookie. Jalen Ramsey is now gone. And they had the two edge rushers who can't stay healthy and Bradley Chubb and, and, and Jalen Phillips. So what are they like, where is.
- [23:55]
Craig Kilborn
The strength, by the way? Isn't. Wouldn't you rather have Minka though still back instead of Jalen?
- [24:00]
Albert Breer
I think so, yeah. I think so, yeah. I mean I think having Minka back gives them, stabilizes them a little bit and it's very specific. Specific to what they are on defense with Anthony Weaver and like they've like in Baltimore when they read remade the defense under Wink, you know, and, and Weaver was there at the end of that. Like when they remade the defense under Wink, they really empowered the safety. So they always, they've. It's been a priority. Have a really smart safety. So that was Eric Weddle for a bunch of years. It was Kyle Hamilton more Recently. And so like Anthony Weaver gets that on defense with, with Minka coming in. But is Minka the type of like over the top difference maker where he's going to just change the fortune of the team? I don't know. You know, and I just like this is the question I've asked people on them. How many players are on that team right now are going to be there in two years? I could come up with two, three if you count two. Right. Jalen, Waddle, Chop, Robinson, I think those two guys will be there in 2027. I like I. You look at the roster, how many other guys can you say that about? There aren't very many, you know. And so like that kind of. I think it kind of illustrates where they are right now, you know, like where it's like this is sort of like a soft reset for them. Which I think, which by the way to all the Dolphins fans out there listening, I think it's the smart thing to do. I think you had topped out with that group, you know, and now I think this tests to his ability to, to have a little bit more on his shoulders where it's not just go out there and play point guard where you have to carry the team a little bit more. Which is what happens when you get paid. Like you got paid.
- [25:37]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, I think that's the thing. I'll. I don't know I'll ever figure out what quarterbacks like, I don't know if I'll ever as many years have been watching this sport. Like who are the guys that are just following a script but it's. And then who are the guys like, because I think there's a bonix conversation. It's like is this guy actually this good or is it just crafted perfectly? Because I mean the numbers, I mean for a rookie quarterback to have the season he had. If you're in Denver, you're like why are you guys debating this anymore? Like we've got our guy for the next 10 years.
- [26:08]
Albert Breer
I'm not sure anybody. Like, do people realize how much dead money the Broncos were carrying last year?
- [26:15]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, they didn't even get a chance. Although the dead money conversation. And I think this is something that's always worth to bring up when you look at the cap spike from each single year. Like these are way easier to swallow. They are than, than I think. Like they're, they're not necessarily the death sentence that we used to think they were 10 years ago, but they were like, yeah, look, it's a massive, massive.
- [26:37]
Albert Breer
Number on the Broncos I mean, the Broncos, like, I, I just don't know. I mean, like, I think what was really impressive about what Bo Nix did was like, I don't know, like, who is Stefan Diggs to Josh Allen there? Who is, you know, Tyree killed a Patrick Mahomes there? You know, like, who is that guy for them where you're like, man, they really, like, have like, difference making players around him. Their offensive line's good, not great. Like, I, like, I think Bo Nix deserves a little more credit for what he did last year. I mean, Cortland Sutton's a good receiver. You know, I like their young guys. Like, I think they got a chance to be good players. You know, Vale's got a chance, you know, Franklin's got. But I, I just, I like, I don't, I don't know that people, like, look at them now. Their defense was really good. That makes a big difference. But even then, like, on defense, it's not like they've got all these big money players that. Those are all guys they drafted and developed through the system. So I think Bo Nicks, like, had to carry like a little bit of a heavier weight than people are giving him credit for there. Now you had Sean Payton and that's a huge advantage, no doubt.
- [27:44]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, but I like that, I like the way that you said it. So let's, let's. Bo Nix is not in this group, but I think tua, Trevor Lawrence, who else would be? I don't know if it's fair to even put Darnold in this group of like, prove it.
- [27:57]
Albert Breer
You mean, like, is that what you're saying?
- [27:58]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, well, Jordan Love's going to be the starter for the Green Bay packers no matter what in 2026. Yeah. So, yeah, I understand your point. It's a bit like with Love going, hey, that high end stuff that we saw, like, you need to continue to build on some of that. And it felt like you were holding the team back, which is not what that contract means. And it's the packers too. If the packers gave you that kind of contract, that's not the kind of organization that's just like, all right, whatever, we've got our starter and let's just pay him what everybody else gets paid. Maybe, maybe I'm giving him too much credit there. I'm just wondering what that list would be. Or maybe I'm thinking about a late August podcast monologue too. It could also. It also could be that because, like, Even Darnold's deal, three years, 100 million, half of it's guaranteed with Seattle. Minnesota was totally fine moving off of him. Clearly they love JJ enough to have drafted him, so it makes sense that they're like, hey, great year. We're moving on. We're going to stay on the rookie quarterback part of it too. There's, there's always, look, there's always like Baker, really.
- [29:01]
Albert Breer
I thought we. I think Baker's proved a lot. I think Baker's proved a lot. Like, but what's interesting about Baker is like, so, like he. Next year will be a contract year for him. So, you know, now you're talking about. Because every year, every time you come up to that juncture in the contract, it turns into it like, do we want to hitch our wagon to the guy again? You know, once they get paid like that, it's like, is. And that was, you know, part of the equation for the Vikings with Darnold. You know what I mean? Do we want to hitch our wagon to him? You know, and, and I think so much of like, what the Vikings did, like in offering Daniel Jones what they did and wanting to bring Darnold back for another year, like, so much of it was, well, like, you know, we'd love to have the insurance policy based on the team that we have. Like, this isn't a rebuilding team that can throw a year overboard in the name of quarterback development. So we want an insurance policy, but, you know, we don't want to like, just jam on the pause button on the JJ McCarthy area and not give him a chance to, to compete. Which is part of why they said no to Rogers. Right. And you know, I, I just like, I, I think anytime you're coming up to that point in a, in a quarterback's contract where, you know, the bucks are with, with Baker, like, this will be, this will be a critical year and people don't realize it yet, but it's like he's going to be looking for a new contract after the year. So how, how do you, how do you handle that? You know what I mean? Like, where, where are they at with him and are they willing to, are they going to be willing to do an even bigger contract with him after the year? I think it's an interesting spot to be in, too. Level solid, right?
- [30:36]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, totally. I mean, the Darnold contract is new, so. And with the guarantees on it, it's probably a two year deal because that's just at least the way I was kind of thinking of. All right, if the presentation of this question is, is this guy, no matter what the starter in 20, 26, then that's not really a question of it's a make or break season. I think you can even make the argument for two. If two is healthy and they're not that good, he's probably just going to be starter again because it's going to be hard to find somebody else. Unless. Unless it goes bad enough where they feel like coaching change and the whole thing. And I don't have the contract in front of me either to know if there's an out on it.
- [31:13]
Albert Breer
What makes it interesting though is like with Miami, right? Like with a team like that, like it doesn't even mean like does he not going to be on the roster in 26? Because like let's just say theoretically that all the quarterback and I don't think there's any like quarterback that the NFL is looking at right now and saying yes, that guy's going to be a top five pick. Right. But there's a handful of them that could be if they play really well in the fall. Right. And you follow this stuff probably closer than I do, you know, but Garrett Nussmeier, Lenora Sellers, I mean Arch, I guess we can throw him in the pile. Drew Aller, I, like I may be missing somebody here, but there's like, I think four or five, six guys. Like where does this look a little bit like the 24 draft or the 21 draft, right? Where there's going to be multiple options at the top. And then if you're Miami and you're not very good and you wind up with the fifth or sixth pick in the draft, you have to consider that where it's like 2 of may still be in the roster in 26, but it's with the first round rookie behind him, you know, I don't know.
- [32:11]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, I mean there's a few other names but man, it's, it's always a little funny looking at some of the stuff in July and then the draft. I mean I hate to bring up the Matt Barkley example every single time we do this, but from top I.
- [32:24]
Albert Breer
Had somebody that, I had somebody the, the summer before he came out and like, like a team guy, not like somebody in the A team guy. Compare him to Troy Aikman before sc. So I don't think, I don't think that guy got in a close enough look yet. No offense to Matt Barkley.
- [32:43]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, no offense. No offense Matt. Great guy. Wouldn't be offended. Two quick things before we let you go. Rogers. Pittsburgh, they replaced like one version of annoying in Russell Wilson with An entirely different brand of annoying with Rogers. It's not a ton of money. The Steelers don't like to hit the reset button. There's tons of talent on the defense. They switch out Pickens for dk and they have no problems giving DK the contract in Seattle didn't want to give him. But this is really going to hinge on, like, you know, Rogers. It'd be one thing if he was just all in about the team, and I would say that jets experience proved that, you know, he's the priority before the team is the priority. At least that's the way it felt to me. And so I don't know how that fits in Pittsburgh.
- [33:35]
Albert Breer
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I mean, they were able to do a lot of relationship building, I think, and just the trust that they had between, you know, March and then him signing. And I would think it was early June, if I remember right. And I do think a big piece of what appealed about. Appealed to Aaron about Pittsburgh was that, like, there were more guys that he could kind of look at as his peers in Pittsburgh. And, you know, really, when, you know, he's looking at his options, and this is me putting pieces together on some of it, but, like, I think, you know, you look at his option, what it was options were in March when he really did make this decision, and it was the Giants, I think, were a lot of what, like, he was part of with the jets, where it was a promising young core players. You got Dexter Lawrence there, Brian Burns, Kayvon Thibodeau, you know, Malik neighbors, Andrew Thomas. So you've got like, this, this. This. This. This promising young core players has never really done it. Which is exactly what he walked into with the jets, where it was like, we want you to come in and elevate this place. Whereas with the Steel.
- [34:46]
Craig Kilborn
Think about what that defense did, though, in that Zach Wilson season for the jets, you know, two years ago.
- [34:51]
Albert Breer
Right.
- [34:51]
Craig Kilborn
That was. I was looking at that again because Sal is back in. In San Francisco and you go, okay, fine, maybe he was a great head coach, but it felt like the defense was.
- [34:59]
Albert Breer
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:59]
Craig Kilborn
That defense at one point was so nasty and you had Zach Wilson just giving you no chance whatsoever. So it should have. Look, if Roger stays healthy, maybe in 24 and this whole thing, maybe. Maybe it's a really successful year and we all feel better about Rogers, but continue.
- [35:15]
Albert Breer
Yeah, but, like, so. But what I'm saying is, like, I think what he was being asked to do with the jets was take this young core of players and elevate it, right? Like, take this young core of players that doesn't know how to win yet and lift them up, right? And I think with the Giants, it would have been the same thing. Like, a lot of guys who are really good players who haven't won yet and, like, come in and be, like, the agent of change. Pittsburgh's not asking him to do that. Pittsburgh's asking him to come in and play quarterback, Right? And I think that's why this has a chance to work, because they're not asking him to be, like, the bellwether for the team. Like. Like, as he goes, so goes the team. And if. If he's having a bad day, then the team, like, they don't. Pittsburgh isn't going to be like that. Like, that locker room is full of established veterans, good leaders. Aaron just come in and play quarterback. And I. I had a conversation at the end of the summer last year with Aaron, and it was about, like, his appreciation just for playing football, you know? And, like, it was. It was actually really interesting having this conversation with him, because I'm coming off the trip to Egypt and all that, and. And he was like, you know what? Like, he's like, I spent so much energy over the course of my career trying to show people that I'm more than just a football player. It's almost like I forgot how much I love football. And, like, at this point in my life, I just want to enjoy playing football. And that stuck with me because I think the Steelers are going to give him the opportunity to do that without all the noise around it. Just come in and be the quarterback. And, like, there are games and, you know, just talking to teams, like, not the Steve, talking to other teams who are evaluating him. Like, they looked at him at the end of the year, the games against the Dolphins, the game against the Jaguars in particular, and they're saying he still has a lot of it. Like, he did. Like, there's not, like, a huge decline in skill here. So, you know, I think. I think he's gonna be a good personality match for Arthur Smith. And I think just what they're asking of him, which is, like, you don't need to be Superman here, dude. Like, Just come play quarterback, I think is going to give him a good chance to succeed. Here's the other thing about the difference between him and Russ. Like, Aaron, one thing you notice about Aaron, and I kind of. I kind of respect this about him. Aaron punches up, like, the people below him actually really like him. Like, some of the guys that Are like the support staff, everything else. Like some of the lower level players really like him. Aaron's problems were always with people above him. Like, Aaron's problems are always the front office, sometimes coaches, like, but he always punched up. And I think like, that's not going to happen in Pittsburgh because of who the Steelers are.
- [37:44]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, it's a really good point. All right, real quick, before we let you go here, give me a rookie. Because everybody loves their rookies, which is one of my favorite things in the NFL. They get them into camp, they run them through and then local news is like, oh my God, we liked him. But like, we really like him. It's like, well, you just drafted him two months ago, so there's a pretty good chance you weren't going to completely dislike them. But give me a team that you trust on a rookie. Any position. I'd actually prefer a not be quarterback where it's somebody who you feel like, hey, this group is raving about this guy that's come in. That's worth at least sharing with us.
- [38:16]
Albert Breer
Yeah. All right, so like, you know, I think Genti is pretty obvious. I think Hampton and with the Chargers is a, is one you'd really look at and say, yeah, I bet that'll work. Like I said, I like Donovan Jackson with the Vikings. Think he's going to be able to make a difference.
- [38:32]
Craig Kilborn
I think the.
- [38:32]
Albert Breer
What the more intriguing ones to watch, the pass rushers in Atlanta and like that how does that Jaylen Walker, James Pierce thing work and like how much, how many eggs they put in that basket to fix what's been a real, a real problem for them over the last five years or so and trying to generate pass rush. But there's a, there's an undrafted virgin Kansas City Jake Brining Stool, who like, they've been able to develop tight ends there. It's not just Kelsey. Noah Gray has become a really good player as a young guy. And like just talking to people there, I remember the way they were talking about, about, about Isaiah Pacheco a couple years ago and like you always have your radar up. Like, you know, okay, is this guy going to be Mr. August? You know what I mean? Like, and like you're just worried that like, yeah, the guy's going to flash in training camp and the preseason and then never be heard from again. But you know, when the Chiefs talk about some of these young offensive guys they bring in, they've generally been like, they generally become something. And so this, this guy Brining Stool, who like, no one's Ever heard The name is one that had a really strong spring and I think I. It might be hard for him to get on the field because of Kelsey and Gray there, but I think they eventually think he's going to become something.
- [39:57]
Craig Kilborn
Love it. I love that stuff. My favorite answer of the entire pod. Enjoy the rest of your vacation. You can check out Breer, the MQB podcast. Very positive run through the conference or, excuse me, the division previews. And you can always check out his work again on ISI.com thanks, man.
- [40:12]
Albert Breer
All right. Thanks, Ryan.
- [40:17]
Craig Kilborn
I have to introduce him because it just makes sense on a podcast. His name is Craig Kilbourne. He looks terrific. His lamp looks even. I don't want to say it looks better than Craig. It's different categories. He has some basketball news. He's hooked up with our guy, Adam McKay, ESPN's trailer for Chasing Basketball Heaven, a new 30 for 30 podcast that premieres July 22. So we wanted to make sure we got the word out there, but I would like you to take over right.
- [40:41]
Ryan Russillo
Now in a second. Well, let's talk about the project and then I'm going to dive into. It's either a compliment to you or a backhanded compliment, which are kind of my favorites. Yeah, backhanded compliments concerning our friend Carl Anthony Towns. But I just wanted to say they've announced it today. Does this air on Thursday? I don't know.
- [41:08]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, we're day of. Yeah.
- [41:11]
Ryan Russillo
So I'm a basketball junkie and I'd never heard of Martin Manley. He's the Bill James of basketball. He was an analytics guy and very odd bird. Only drank Pepsi, only listened to James Taylor disappeared. Very eccentric. And so it's a six part series podcast series on ESPN. 30 for 30. And I get to play Martin Manley. Interesting.
- [41:46]
Craig Kilborn
How are you on JT's catalog?
- [41:50]
Ryan Russillo
JT, James Taylor I don't listen to. I mean, I know James Taylor's great. Sweet baby James, but in all honesty, when I'm listening to my America radio station driving up the coast, I skip a lot of jt. Sorry about that. He's great. He's great. I think he did Wichita Lineman for President Obama, which is a great song.
- [42:18]
Craig Kilborn
Anyways, I went to go see James Taylor with his daughter and there were other people involved. Yeah.
- [42:24]
Ryan Russillo
You mean you were with his daughter, sitting next to her or he was performing with his daughter?
- [42:29]
Craig Kilborn
No, he was performing and we were with his daughter. There was a group of like four or five of us. You know, there's a big vineyard Connection. And then it was a subdued crowd at that stage of James career. You know, it wasn't a raucous group. I think he even had the Philharmonic, which usually sets a tone for a concert that you're not going to be yelling freebird at it. But she said she was like, when there's like a really quiet part, let's all yell Coco Cabana as a request. And we were younger. Libations did flow. And we waited just the perfectly quiet part. And we just screamed Coco Cabana. And he laughed because it was like a joke that he had with the daughter. A lot of people around us didn't laugh.
- [43:13]
Ryan Russillo
I wonder, I wonder if the joke was about the song by Manilow. Is that what it was or not?
- [43:18]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, yeah. It was like we were yelling as if we were just this crew of people saying, you're doing requests.
- [43:25]
Ryan Russillo
We wanted to hear Coco. Oh, that's funny. That's funny.
- [43:29]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. But, you know, then we got some nasty looks. But I think once the daughter gives you the go ahead to go ahead and do it, you're allowed to do it then backstage. But it was, again, it was. It was. It was pretty. It was pretty chill.
- [43:39]
Ryan Russillo
How. How old were you at the time and what. In what part of the show, the concert, did your shirt come off? I guess Those are the two obvious questions.
- [43:50]
Craig Kilborn
21. I don't think I took it off at that show, but it was off probably on the car. The car ride home, because there was no way we were going to make the last boat. It was just a real quick summer vineyard. Let's shoot up. Let's do this. I love James Taylor. So I'm just. Look, I'm trying to. This is all back work for you. I know that the part is mostly about basketball and analytics, but just think of the depth that you have now. Can you explain to me. So you're doing the Voice character. This is a drama that, like, it's a little different here.
- [44:26]
Ryan Russillo
It's pretty unique. There's a really talented audio producer in New York, John DeLore, the Reverend John DeLore. And he just put this together. So there's this guy, Rich Levine, and he has a partner. They're from Boston. Rich is probably in his early 40s, big Celtic fan, big Kilborne fan. He reached out to me. You know, people reach out sometimes and say, hey, you want to do something? And I listen. But this sounded so interesting and unique that I said, sure. It's a six. It's a six part podcast series. I can do that. I got Time. I can do that.
- [45:07]
Craig Kilborn
And are you still taking acting classes to stay sharp?
- [45:13]
Ryan Russillo
I'm always, as Jeff Goldblum told me years ago, you just work on it every day on your own. Bogart was self taught, by the way. Speaking of acting, I find this fascinating, you know, how people are opinionated. You know, Ray Liotta did not like Clint Eastwood as an actor. I don't know if you.
- [45:30]
Craig Kilborn
I just saw that clip. I just saw the clip with Andy Cohen.
- [45:33]
Ryan Russillo
Yes.
- [45:34]
Craig Kilborn
Good friend.
- [45:35]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. And no one can match Clint's career, obviously. And he's got a presence. And, you know, he's different. He's a director and he's an actor, but he's so charismatic. He has such a presence. But then I was looking up some. Do you remember that guy, the actor's name? Very easy. Rockford. Jim Rockford. What was his name? It's very easy.
- [46:01]
Craig Kilborn
James Garner.
- [46:02]
Ryan Russillo
James Garner, he didn't like Steve McQueen as an actor. He said he's merely a movie star. So I find that kind of fascinating that people, some of these, Steve McQueen, I mean, he's like Clint. He's got a presence. He doesn't have to say too much.
- [46:23]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. I was reading the Bob Evans book and I love that part about how McQueen's with Bob's lady. And Bob is. I wouldn't say he was a connected guy, but it was clear. Guys in the mob like Bob so much. I mean, Bob. After I got done reading the Bob Evans book, I felt like I should do more stuff. If you're a man that has desires, you're like, I'm. I've never felt more boring after I got done with that book. And then he's with his mob buddy who's a tough guy, and Bob says to him, he's like, just so you know, if you go up to McQueen, he knows karate and I know you don't like swearing. And the guy turns to Bob and goes, bob, he's a fucking actor.
- [47:11]
Ryan Russillo
Now this is. I know I've asked you this, but when you. The Bob Evans book, kid stays in the picture, you listen to the audio, correct?
- [47:21]
Craig Kilborn
No, no, I gave my. I read it. And so what I've decided to do is after you told me about the audio, because I know he became a friend of yours, which makes a lot of sense that I was going to wait. I wanted the retention levels to go down so that I can revisit the story. So I wanted to give it a few years. So I'm going to listen to the audio.
- [47:41]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, it's Legendary because it's his voice and he's just hilarious. And I know we talked about the offer, this 10 part series of Miles Teller and then Matthew Good played Bob Evans to a T. I just, I rewatched things and I rewatched it, the 10 part series last week. Third time I've seen it and it is better than ever. It's better than ever.
- [48:07]
Craig Kilborn
I loved it. And Matthew Good is so good in that. Did you hear about his tryout? Apparently he read for James Bond and he went really dark and they were like, we're good. And I want, I just want Matthew Good to do something again. I, I wouldn't be shocked if like, if he didn't get. He's. He's really so. He was so good in that. I'm sure he can figure out some other stuff, but it's not like he's this headlining actor and all these different things. He's so good as Bob Evans. I wonder if there's a. Just a spin off of him being Bob Evans.
- [48:36]
Ryan Russillo
I, you know, I would watch that and, and I think he, he does have a new show because people have told me about it and I, and I have. I started the first episode by. But I have to continue because I. It was late at night when I go to bed early. But it's called, what is it called? Apartment Q or something like that or.
- [48:51]
Craig Kilborn
I'm on it. Whatever it is, I'm writing it down.
- [48:53]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, he has a. He has a new. Matthew Goode has a new series. But I remember one of my other favorite series, six part series called the Night Manager with Hugh Laurie and Tom Hiddleston. And I hadn't really seen Hiddleston and they said that he said that he wanted to play Bond. This was, you know, five years ago or so. When there's a new Bond, he wants to be up for it. And I really believe. I read the producers were like, no, we want someone a little more masculine. Which I found interesting.
- [49:29]
Craig Kilborn
I'm all for that. I also think if you're in the Marvel universe, I don't know that you should be James Bond. I'm protective of James Bond. I like Idols. I like the way the music makes me feel. But the lyric about dissing jb, you know, I mean, he's also fictional, so you probably shouldn't get too worked up about it. But Idols gets worked up about a lot of stuff in their lyrics. So I just hope the Bond pick is the right pick. I don't know if Good could have pulled it off or not. But hearing that he went with something a little dark. I don't know. We're off on one of our tangents. So bring us back.
- [50:03]
Ryan Russillo
Well, it's called, I just looked it up. It's called Department Q. Is the new Matthew Good series. I heard it's good. And then so I did this thing, I said yes to this six part series and I think you'll enjoy it. And I think in episode one, I'm only in it briefly and then I do a lot of work in the 4, 5 and 6. And it's, it's very unique is what I would tell you. Very unique character. Martin Manley, he's from Kansas. I do a little bit of a very subtle Kansas twang because I was born in Kansas, I grew up in Minnesota and I'd visit my cousins and they had a little bit of a southern twang down in Kansas. Interesting.
- [50:50]
Craig Kilborn
And so you're the lead. Is it normal the lead is named in the third paragraph of the press release?
- [50:55]
Ryan Russillo
It's funny. I just saw the press press release and did a joke to someone and said I didn't know I'm in the third paragraph. But you know, I, I, I'm a humble servant. Not necessarily a lead in it. I mean play the main character, but it's just, I think the guys, Rich Lavine and his partner, I, his partner is a, is a wonderful guy that I haven't met yet. And his name is Nick.
- [51:26]
Craig Kilborn
Yes, Nick. And also, I don't know if I got that last name right. But that's why you didn't do it.
- [51:32]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. Pronounce it again.
- [51:34]
Craig Kilborn
I don't know. I gave it one shot. I'm not trying it again.
- [51:37]
Ryan Russillo
So anywho, very fun project. Tuesday, July 22, it drops and I'm happy to be a part of it. Helping out the young people. 30 for 30 ESPN. Now, Mr. Rossello, you said something during the NBA playoffs that I heard and it made me laugh. You were on with Bill and another gentleman talking about the Knicks and this is what you said. Because I got guys in Minnesota who don't like cat. I got buddies. One of my buddies goes overboard. But he also went overboard on Kirk Cousins. Hated Kirk Cousins. Mainly the contract, top five contract, 15th best quarterback, etc. This is what you said. I just don't like watch a cat. I just don't like watch a cat. But you know what? The production's there, that's on me. So you said that's on me. And I like that you said that's on me.
- [52:38]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, it sounds like me. And then the production wasn't there. By the way. You know what I think, like, the Randall Cat 25 playoffs were very fitting. Not telling they were fitting. They were the second or third installment of a movie that we know exactly. You sit down 90 minutes, I know exactly what I'm getting. It's over. And that with the excitement about Randall in the first two rounds, the letdown of like, we need you to take this up to another level. It's like, I probably am not that guy consistently throughout a series to have that kind of level. And then when I can't provide it, then everything's that much harder for Ant. And the way OKC loads up on Ant, you know, I think there were some Ant things that I didn't necessarily love, but I thought it was a very challenging series for him based on everything that's happening. And then when you get to Cat and you're like, are you gonna make some threes here, man? Like, where are the threes and the. The lows for both a Randall and Cat remind you why they were ever available in the first place. While the highs kind of lead you to believe you can't got this guy for the other guy. So I think they're actually like a perfect pairing almost a year later in that trade.
- [53:48]
Ryan Russillo
Let me unpack what you just said.
- [53:50]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah.
- [53:52]
Ryan Russillo
First of all, I want to emphasize again, when you said, that's on me. I have a friend in New York, Hank Perlman. He came up with this Sports center campaign in the 90s when he worked for Wyden and Kennedy. Now he has a very successful commercial directing company. They direct super bowl commercials. He directs them. Very opinionated, he likes to complain. And his big thing is he doesn't like Paul McCartney. So he rips on McCartney and says he's the fourth most talented Beatle and he's very irresponsible, but he's just being a provocateur. And my friend Mike Gibbons said that says more about Hank than it does about Paul McCartney. So when you said it's on me, then you're saying it's on me that I don't like Kat. Now I respect that. I don't know if you're being serious that it's on you, but you just take a shot at Cat. Cat is bothersome. And my friend who doesn't like him in Minnesota will rightfully so say he picks up silly ass fouls. And he does. He's weird that way. He reaches, he reaches down, he doesn't move his Feet. He has size 22. He doesn't. But then my friend will say, I don't like his changing his voice during the interview. So he'll talk about not just the playing, but the personality. My thing is, I know Cat can be polarizing. I still remain stunned at his offensive talent. I know he can't do it all the time. I know he forces drives and runs over people and hooks. But in this year's playoffs, he did things that I have not seen, where he had two unbelievable playoff games, mainly 2 4th quarters at Detroit. He hit two bomb three pointers. He hit a baseline fallaway jumper over the backboard on the right side. And he doesn't shoot those kind of jump shot, turnaround jump shots. And then he had the game at Indiana where he scored. We called it Rally Cat. New York Post headline, Rally Cat, where he scored 20 in the fourth and had the whole Statue of Liberty dunk. Best playoff performance I've ever seen the guy have is to those two fourth quarters. So I know people want more. I know he bothers people. Third team, all NBA. I thought he had a great season. Sorry, Buddy.
- [56:14]
Craig Kilborn
Had great. No, had a great season. Totally understand. You've been, You've been a big supporter of his. The zestiness does not bother you as much as it bothers your friend?
- [56:25]
Ryan Russillo
I ignore it.
- [56:27]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, that's fine. You choose to ignore something that I can't get past. And I think that's with wisdom. I don't want to call it age, I want to call it wisdom. You know, the gap in our wisdom, maybe it's showing itself right now.
- [56:41]
Ryan Russillo
Well, by the way, do you agree that we would watch games and there were guys back, other guys in Minnesota who liked Cat and we all said, why don't they give him the ball? I mean, Jalen Brunson would not look for him at all. And I'm surprised he scored as much as he did in the regular season. They didn't look for him. They didn't run plays for him. And then occasionally they would and he'd.
- [57:03]
Craig Kilborn
Score as great as Brunson is. And he's so great.
- [57:09]
Ryan Russillo
Unreal.
- [57:10]
Craig Kilborn
There. There becomes this reliance on it. And as the stakes raise and the intensity raises, you kind of just default back to like, all right, what. What likely gives us our best look? Because Jaylen's just so good at getting space. And, you know, the foul baiting, too, makes him. It's a bit like the hard and stuff. Nothing's as bad as the prime Harden foul baiting. But when you're in that mode as a defender where you go, I, I'm, I'm likely if I try to contest anything, I'm going to compromise myself and be in a bad position here. So then you become like even more effective as an offensive player. But I, I just notice it too often where teams will become predictable because they're afraid of trying something that likely is less efficient. On the math of make sure this guy has the ball. And look, basketball is a very connected sport. And if you just keep doing that over and over again, even in playoff moment, like guys don't like standing around watching other people shoot all the time.
- [58:04]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [58:04]
Craig Kilborn
I'm not even necessarily blaming Brunson. Maybe that's why Tibbs isn't there. Who knows? But you just have to figure out a way to be able to balance a little bit more. And I think we've seen that more often than not with the teams that win is just having a little bit more balance on offense.
- [58:21]
Ryan Russillo
So you mentioned Julius Randle and he had a really slow start with the Wolves and he can be infuriating, but man, did he play well against the Lakers and took it to Draymond in the second round against the Warriors. Interesting player, able to penetrate in the half court offense, break down that defense. I think, just to be just totally honest, I'm a purist and I loathe turnovers. And the Wolves will turn it over because they've got some guys, the Jaden McDaniels and the Naz Reads and all these guys, they just, they don't always pass that well. They don't take care of the ball and OKC exposed, you know, the turnovers. So I don't know, man. We. I'm sure Tim Connolly, I know he was trying to get Durant, but we were hoping they'd go after a Kobe White or Darius Garland or if somehow Dear and Fox was available, make a trade for another ball handler. And it looks like we're running it back. So the pressure's on my guy who is, you know, I think going to kind of inconsistent and flashy Rob Dillingham. He's going to get some run next year and he can handle the ball, but he also turns it over. He's. He's a fly. He's not the steadying force like young Mike Conley was, you know.
- [59:49]
Craig Kilborn
No, not polished yet, but. But twitchy. Hey, I want to pivot because you mentioned Casablanca and Bogart. Yeah. And I just watched it. I just watched. I'm going through a classics phase right now.
- [60:04]
Ryan Russillo
Cool. Cool.
- [60:05]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. Very excited and it works. You know, maybe the action scene at the very end wouldn't hold up for a 20, 25 audience, you know, like, did that guy just move behind something and they're shooting at each other, you know? But look, we're talking about 1942.
- [60:22]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [60:23]
Craig Kilborn
Premiere American release, 1943. So I think deserves a little leniency on maybe some of the action scenes, special effects. Are you going back and watching any of these things? Are you thinking about, like, I could see you in another life owning a Rick's Cafe, but maybe you wouldn't want to be front and center. Maybe you'd want to be behind the scenes guy. But younger Kilborn was a one, it wasn't a two. You know, So I just. Are you going back and watching any of that preparation for this audio role?
- [60:52]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, I think Rob Dillingham. I'm just kidding. That was a transition, by the way. That was a quick one. But I like it. I like it. Just so I understand, have you seen Casablanca many times? You just decided to rewatch it or what?
- [61:05]
Craig Kilborn
I had watched it, but never, like, with the writer's eye.
- [61:11]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, yeah. I think when I first saw it, I was like, well, I saw it in college, but I know I saw it before that. But when I really watched it in college for some class, it was like, oh, my God, I've heard every one of these lines before. You know, we'll always have Paris. I mean, all this stuff he says.
- [61:37]
Craig Kilborn
Here'S looking at you, kid. I think four or five times on a rewrite.
- [61:41]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [61:41]
Craig Kilborn
There might be somebody coming in, like, McKay might go, did I use it too many times here? 43. It plays 43. The crowd's going wild for all of them. Yeah. I think my viewing experience is very similar. I should count this as the first time I've really watched it. Has it been on before when you're at your grandparents or your mom's, like, leave me alone. Yeah, this was the first time where I just was like, I'm really going to dig in to hold Bogart. I almost ordered a biography, but I was afraid I was going to be getting the wrong one. Do you want to? I don't know. Do you want to? We could do some lines. Do you want to try a line?
- [62:21]
Ryan Russillo
Well, I'm a big Bogart fan. I just wanted to let you know. And I've seen Casablanca at least four times, but I watch other stuff. Like, he did A Dark Passage, which was a film noir up in San Francisco with a very young Lauren Bacall, when you say do the lines, you want me to guess the line or just try to say lines that are famous or what?
- [62:44]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, I don't know. How about this one? I'm just a girl standing in front of a boy asking him to love her.
- [62:51]
Ryan Russillo
Now, wait a second. What movie is that from? That's not from.
- [62:54]
Craig Kilborn
No, Notting Hill.
- [62:55]
Ryan Russillo
Okay. Okay. Yeah, I never saw that movie. I'm proud to say. Is that Hugh Grant and Julia Roberts.
- [63:03]
Craig Kilborn
Nailed it. For somebody who's never seen it.
- [63:04]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, I've never seen it.
- [63:07]
Craig Kilborn
You could have promoed it.
- [63:08]
Ryan Russillo
Did they come up? Here's a line. I'll give you a line from a famous Hitchcock movie. Not very sporting, using real bullets.
- [63:18]
Craig Kilborn
Love it.
- [63:19]
Ryan Russillo
Not very sporting. You know what movie that is? The Window. That's James Mason in North by Northwest. James Mason. Not very sporting, using real bullets. North by Northwest, my favorite Hitchcock movie.
- [63:36]
Craig Kilborn
Oh, you know what I love is your Christian Bale Ferrari.
- [63:39]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, that was just those come and go. It was just. It threw me off the trailer how strong his dialect was there. It just was really. Oh, man. Ferrari. You know, Man, Ferrari. It was very funny.
- [63:54]
Craig Kilborn
So you're off here, but tell me more.
- [63:56]
Ryan Russillo
Tell me more of the old movies you're watching. I love that.
- [64:01]
Craig Kilborn
Lawrence of Arabia. What's that?
- [64:05]
Ryan Russillo
If you ever have a chance, you probably won't do it, but watch Beckett, which is like.
- [64:17]
Craig Kilborn
Beckett.
- [64:18]
Ryan Russillo
They actually spell it with one T at the end. Beckett. And he plays a king, and he's with Richard Burton. They both were nominated for an Oscar in 1964 and lost to Rex Harrison and My Fair Lady.
- [64:35]
Craig Kilborn
He should have. Rex should have won that. I've seen. I've seen that.
- [64:38]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, he killed it. Totally. Yep. But this is what I find interesting. I watched it. I talked to my neighbor friend who used to do film reviews for down in Orange County. He's a writer. I said, you ever seen Beckett? He said, yeah, I wrote down a bunch of words there that I hadn't heard before. And he said what? I felt, though Peter o' Toole is better in Beckett than he is in Lawrence of Arabia. Now, the reason is he's despotic. He's a king and he's yelling most of the movie. And it's Shakespearean and it's very dynamic. So if you ever get a chance to see Beckett. And my dad's favorite actor was Richard Burton. I don't know if you've ever seen any movies with Richard Burton. Richard Bitten. Richard Bitten.
- [65:32]
Craig Kilborn
Any.
- [65:33]
Ryan Russillo
Who do you think the NBA fans Are enjoying this.
- [65:37]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. I mean, I want to get to some of the groupings for the NBA cup if you're ready for that. They just announced those. We can table that. We could table it. Maybe we do that one. I just do.
- [65:48]
Ryan Russillo
Your audience is diverse and they like movie talk, right?
- [65:53]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. It's also July, so I think they know what they're getting when they hit play.
- [65:58]
Ryan Russillo
Wait, I just want to see. So you watch. I just thought you were going to say other old movies besides Casablanca, that you're rewatching other classics.
- [66:05]
Craig Kilborn
Well, it's not every night. No, I know, because you're reading a list.
- [66:08]
Ryan Russillo
You got to read all those books.
- [66:10]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, yeah.
- [66:11]
Ryan Russillo
Sorry for learning. Sorry for learning. I love that you did that. You tweeted, Sorry for learning. Those are books. He's just moving around his house down in Manhattan Beach, Just moving there from shelf to shelf. Sorry for that.
- [66:27]
Albert Breer
Yeah.
- [66:27]
Craig Kilborn
I mean, the thing was, is that I stacked up my entire Chernow catalog because I interviewed Ron Chernow a few weeks ago. So I was really excited. So I took a picture of those books, and I do think the public figure, check out my summer, like, look, with all the books that I read, it's. Is it about, like, what's that really about? It feels a little narcissistic. Well, these are the books I've read.
- [66:59]
Ryan Russillo
It's showing off.
- [67:01]
Craig Kilborn
I'm going to do it, by the way, this summer. End of the summer, look out. But then it's like, am I doing it because I'm trying to be funny and make fun of other people, or I'm actually trying to show people that I'm going to try to get through, like, three Susan Bowers, you know, so who knows?
- [67:15]
Ryan Russillo
Can I go back? You said something that I liked, and it triggered a thought about writing where you said, here's looking at you, kid. They said it. You said these four or five times, and you said, I wonder if someone would come in and say, we're saying it too much. So my brother, who was lone valedictorian of his graduating class of 500, software engineer Chris Kilbourne, beautiful calves. Had the high jump record for 15 years at Hastings High School, Went to Rice University. He loved F. Scott's Fitzgerald, the Great Gatsby. And he doesn't. I don't even know if he ever watched the movies, the Robert Redford one or the Leo one, because he goes, I like the book too much. I don't want to watch. But he loved the writing. Long, compound sentences, very descriptive. And I also would say well, do you like Hemingway? Because those are shorter. It's pretty cool how Hemingway is able to paint a picture with these simple sentences or seemingly simple sentences. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I asked him a question. I was writing something. I said, you know, you don't want to say. I don't want to say the word beautiful. You know, five times in my script. You want to say other words. Lovely and you know, all these different attractive. Whatever you want to say. And I asked him about Hemming or I asked him about F. Scott's Fitgerald and he said he uses all these different words, but it seems like he only uses the word once. That's how it reads. Like in other words, if he does use a word a couple times, it doesn't seem that way. Which is a high compliment is what it is to the writer.
- [68:55]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, that's. I hadn't really ever thought of it that way.
- [68:59]
Ryan Russillo
Am I going too deep? You want to talk to Dillingham Shifty?
- [69:03]
Craig Kilborn
No, I actually wanted to finish on this. You had a dinner?
- [69:06]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [69:07]
Craig Kilborn
With John Butcher Grass and oh yeah. I felt, I felt great to be included except for the part where I wasn't invited to the dinner and I'm not. I am not for the record doing a how come I wasn't invited move because I would have done that Too.
- [69:22]
Ryan Russillo
Long to drive for you.
- [69:24]
Craig Kilborn
Was there ever a thought of do you think he would come to this or should we head down to Manhattan beach for a nightcap?
- [69:33]
Ryan Russillo
He would have. He was staying downtown and I made fun of him because I go to. I left. We left and said goodbye from Rao's Hollywood. And I texted, I said that was great. I'm sure you're having a nightcap. And he sent me a picture of the nightcap that he was having downtown in his hotel. But I had never met John. My instinct is he wanted one on one time initial meeting with Kilbourne. That's my guess.
- [70:03]
Craig Kilborn
If you had never met, there's no way I should be at that dinner.
- [70:06]
Ryan Russillo
Correct. We had never met.
- [70:09]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, zero and man, did we include.
- [70:11]
Ryan Russillo
You with some texts and some jokes.
- [70:14]
Craig Kilborn
Post multiple posts on multiple platforms. So. But then it leads to my rep and they're like did you actually turn down a dinner with those two guys? And I was like, actually this is. I'm first, I'm learning of it as well. And then, then, then it was like a twist that my friend group was like wait, you were. They were posting. But then they never really reached out. I go, you know what? I Think past a certain age, men shouldn't hold men to any kind of standard when it comes to this kind of thing.
- [70:41]
Ryan Russillo
So he was a great. I never. He's a great guy. I had him on my pod. He's. I like his positive attitude. He enjoys life. He was doing a lot of baseball analogies to the bartender about this is my leadoff hitter. I'm going to have an espresso martini. And I said, I don't think she follows baseball. And I don't know, but he likes doing that. Could not believe I gave him crap about an espresso martini. And I don't think any human being should have. I know they're popular. Do not have an espresso martini. Caffeine, sugar. Just have vodka or gin and just keep it simple. I don't think he doesn't mind that I tell people what he had because he then he was. He's really. He's in good shape. Really good shape.
- [71:26]
Craig Kilborn
Very ripped, sinewy.
- [71:28]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. Think he said his waist was 31, which is, you know, that's. That's a 27 year old killerborn. I mean, I can't, you know, that's ridiculous. But I told him about another drink. He had an espresso martini. He had a negroni. He had red wine with his veal parm. And a bartender told me recently about a drink called the Last Word, which is gin based, but you can use vodka, tequila or whatever you want. Mezcal. And it's got green chartreuse in it, lime juice and some bitters. But it's a really fun drink. And a friend of mine who likes martinis said, craig, I've never told you it's my favorite drink. The Last Word. Green chartreuse. Very, very interesting. Not too sweet. I felt like I was drinking a green juice from the health food store. Anyways, so he tried it. He liked it.
- [72:20]
Craig Kilborn
The Last Word. Beckett. And a 3030 podcast.
- [72:27]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. You've seen, by the way, I have the Life Gorgeous podcast. My favorite thing is my Instagram. Very creative, creative flow. Mr. Craig Kilborn. Feel free to follow that, but have you seen Three Days of the Condor? We've talked about that. Right? That's from the seventies with Robert Redford. Really good movie. Faye Dunaway. Please make sure you watch that.
- [72:49]
Craig Kilborn
Three Days of the Condor writing it down.
- [72:54]
Ryan Russillo
I'm sure you've seen. I'm sure you've seen Day of the jackal from the 70s. They now have a television show.
- [73:02]
Craig Kilborn
No, I have a lot of holes. What's that Yeah, I have a lot of holes in the 70s stuff which some have said is really peak cinema.
- [73:11]
Ryan Russillo
Godfather, Jaws, Jaws, one on one. Robbie Benson, Spike Lee. Call it the worst basketball movie of all time.
- [73:27]
Craig Kilborn
Well, I don't know. I don't know that. I don't know the answer to that. Life. Gorgeous pod out every week during the summer. Are we taking.
- [73:36]
Ryan Russillo
Proud of you, brother.
- [73:39]
Craig Kilborn
You had a compliment for me earlier or. We already covered that.
- [73:41]
Ryan Russillo
Well, it was that you said, it's on me that I don't like Cat.
- [73:45]
Craig Kilborn
That's right. I had up my notes.
- [73:46]
Ryan Russillo
Is that a backhanded compliment?
- [73:49]
Craig Kilborn
No, I just like that you're listening, buddy.
- [73:51]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [73:53]
Craig Kilborn
And make sure you check.
- [73:54]
Ryan Russillo
The Wolves are still good, right? The wolves can. The Wolves are good. You, by the way, you don't know about. You don't know about the two seven footers we drafted. Right?
- [74:04]
Craig Kilborn
I.
- [74:05]
Ryan Russillo
They're supposed to be projects, but they're talented.
- [74:07]
Craig Kilborn
Barringer.
- [74:09]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [74:09]
Craig Kilborn
I actually liked him.
- [74:10]
Ryan Russillo
Oh, you did?
- [74:11]
Craig Kilborn
I liked. Yeah. I mean, just. He set a screen on a guy on one play that was so vicious that they called a foul on him for setting the screen just because the other guy, like, looked like he ran into a wall. I think it was a legal screen, but it was almost a sympathy whistle. I think the first eight cuts I saw of him, they were all just dunks. Filthy. This is what I'm here to do. I'm not going to try to make this complicated. He already catches it better than Rudy does, which I know is. I know that hurts. Hurts you to hear that.
- [74:43]
Ryan Russillo
No. That's a low bar. Yeah. Obviously, these guys are athletes. They both. The other guy is Australian, who's 7 3, 9 7.
- [74:53]
Craig Kilborn
I don't know much about him.
- [74:54]
Ryan Russillo
Rocco, I guess it's Zacharsky and he's lefty and he's. Interestingly, he can shoot threes. Yeah. I mean, he has a nice little. He has nice form. He's not as raw, I don't think, as Barringer Berenger, but when he. I was watching highlights and he was running up and down the court and my brother's watching highlights, and I said, does he remind you of Bill Walton running? He goes, yes, he does. So it's kind of interesting. So we got these two seven footers. I'm not sure what the plan is. See who develops and replaces Rudy, I guess. Right.
- [75:30]
Craig Kilborn
Well, it is the Twin Cities, but boom. Maybe the. I don't know what you do because I don't have a nickname for you right now. I'm sorry. I'M not good.
- [75:41]
Ryan Russillo
It's okay.
- [75:43]
Craig Kilborn
Thank you for this and make sure we get the word out for the 30 for 30 again, anything with McKay, obviously, we're huge fans as well, so. Thanks, man.
- [75:53]
Ryan Russillo
Thanks, brother. See you, man.
- [75:58]
Albert Breer
You want details?
- [75:59]
Wargon
Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [76:03]
Albert Breer
What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid.
- [76:14]
Wargon
So now you know what's possible.
- [76:16]
Albert Breer
Let me tell you what's required.
- [76:17]
Craig Kilborn
Life advice. Our email address, lifeadvicerrmail.com couple days away. Big dog war gone. Getting ready. Dress casual today. I like it. Yeah. Why waste. Why waste any good looks?
- [76:31]
Kyle
I know a lot of pressure on the looks moving forward.
- [76:35]
Craig Kilborn
Why is that?
- [76:36]
Kyle
Be judged.
- [76:38]
Craig Kilborn
I don't know.
- [76:38]
Kyle
It just feels like a lot of people are gonna be looking at me.
- [76:40]
Wargon
Getting a haircut today.
- [76:42]
Kyle
No, I'm just rocking with this. I talked to Melissa. She was like, it doesn't look good when you first get a cut. She's like, it's got to grow a bit after that.
- [76:48]
Craig Kilborn
So you could get a cut a different length.
- [76:52]
Wargon
But you know what? If you're happy, I'm happy.
- [76:55]
Craig Kilborn
It sounds like Kyle doesn't know the way your hair looks.
- [77:00]
Kyle
I'll throw a little gel on it. It'll look okay.
- [77:02]
Wargon
No, it was just like when I. When I had my wedding, it was like my wife had, like, you know, there was the hair and there was the hair person. I think there was a different makeup person. And then there was a photographer. And I was just like, I just got to make sure I get to my barber like the day before.
- [77:14]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah.
- [77:15]
Wargon
And that was like my big checklist, you know? And she was like, if we have time, maybe we can. Maybe I can go get a spray tan.
- [77:20]
Craig Kilborn
And I'm just like, just.
- [77:22]
Wargon
I hope that guy's got up by 11 o'.
- [77:24]
Craig Kilborn
Clock.
- [77:24]
Wargon
Still good on Thursday.
- [77:25]
Kyle
No, I did it. I did it late last week.
- [77:27]
Albert Breer
Week.
- [77:28]
Kyle
So somewhat fresh.
- [77:30]
Wargon
All right. No, I mean, hey, looks great.
- [77:33]
Kyle
Thanks.
- [77:35]
Craig Kilborn
I don't know. I just. I don't know. Now that I'm thinking back the way Kyle said it was like, hey, are you getting your hair cut?
- [77:41]
Wargon
And then I'm just thinking back, you know, I'm just thinking about me.
- [77:44]
Craig Kilborn
That's all.
- [77:45]
Wargon
What I did.
- [77:46]
Craig Kilborn
Right. But then Morgan's like, no, I'm going with this. And then we got like a. Whoa. I just. The thing is, I think worgon. I don't know if unflappable Like I don't know you well enough. I mean, we didn't talk a lot at espn. You do. You do. Okay, that was a good line.
- [78:06]
Wargon
I mean, at the end of the day, right, you're just kind of the guy in the suit.
- [78:09]
Kyle
No one's looking at me, right?
- [78:10]
Wargon
Like literally all my groomsmen were dressed exactly the same. I think Seinfeld has a good bit about that. Is like if the groom gets cold feet, everyone just takes a step to the right.
- [78:18]
Craig Kilborn
Like.
- [78:19]
Wargon
Cause they all. They look identical.
- [78:21]
Kyle
The one thing I am worried about, it's gonna be like 90 degrees I think on Saturday, dude.
- [78:26]
Wargon
I was thinking like, what kind of shirt could I wear under the suit? You know, the invitation wasn't very specific, so I. I packed a nice long sleeve. But you know, whatever, it'll be fine.
- [78:38]
Craig Kilborn
All right, we real quick feedback here. The 7A pod. So that's just a couple days ago. 62210 current player comp post Golden State Warriors. Boogie Cousins. Not looking for advice. Just wanted to say the 7A pod with van was an all time great. It should be on the RR podcast. Rushmore. Curious if you guys have specific episodes that you would rank above the others. Wow. Anything come to mind? Kyle, what was your favorite?
- [79:03]
Wargon
Mike's got nothing.
- [79:05]
Kyle
I'm thinking.
- [79:06]
Wargon
Yeah, he's like. He just uses that brain wipe as an excuse to never remember who have we had on. Yeah, there are moments that I like, but I don't know about the overall theme. I actually listened to the first 20 minutes of that today. You guys went deep early. First of all, how dare you talking about religion like that. But no, there are moments but I don't know about like full like conversations where I was like, shit, that was. That one's gotta be in the top four. Yeah, I don't know. Sorry.
- [79:36]
Albert Breer
I don't know.
- [79:37]
Wargon
I wipe my brain like Mike says, but I just don't know what I would say.
- [79:42]
Craig Kilborn
You live it and you move on.
- [79:43]
Wargon
Chris Longs were good. There were some Chris Longs early on where we were like, I thought we, like, we ended the call and we were just like, holy shit. That was. That was pretty awesome, wasn't it?
- [79:52]
Craig Kilborn
So, yeah, that was pretty good. I always loved having Chris on those Mondays. I did really enjoy. Just at least for me personally, when it hasn't come out yet, it comes out next Tuesday. But the Ron Chernow thing, just because I've been looking forward to it for years. So I know. Kyle, you weren't on that taping. Oregon. I know Is more of a theatrical guy. But that must have meant something to you to know what. What went behind Hamilton, what went into it. Right.
- [80:20]
Kyle
We made a little Hamilton breakout that'll be coming out sometime next week. But that was one where it ended and we were like, that was really good.
- [80:27]
Craig Kilborn
Okay, good. There was a cowherd one at my house, the first cowherd at my house when I first moved here. That was really good. I think for a while that had been the highest downloaded episode I'd had for like the first few years, I think that I was here. So. Okay, how about a couple emails? Because I seem to be not getting to it in time. Let's see. All right. That's not the one I wanted to read. I don't think so. Sometimes you guys will share your player comps and it'll be two paragraphs of just player comp and breaking down the whole thing.
- [81:06]
Wargon
It's got to be.
- [81:07]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, well, I appreciate the thoroughness, you know, because everybody's out there. Advanced scouting.
- [81:11]
Wargon
No, it's nice to have a debate, but, you know.
- [81:15]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, okay. 25, living in New York City. 59190. I know what you're thinking. I don't know. Truth is, I'm recovering offensive lineman. I'm not as fat as you're picturing. 5 9, 190 O line. I wasn't even thinking you were fat.
- [81:33]
Kyle
I wasn't picturing anything.
- [81:34]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about you.
- [81:37]
Wargon
Dude, they're playing eight man football, right? I mean, you could. You could fit in anywhere today.
- [81:43]
Craig Kilborn
Player comp. George Niang Body without the height. Play style is crossed between Kyle Anderson and Kyle Lowry. I can play as a big or a guard, depending on how tired I am. One of my best friends from growing up invited my girlfriend and I to his new girlfriend's beach house just outside of the city. Never turned down a beach house invite, right? Wargon, when you're living in the city, get away from all the garbage. Well, look, garbage. Hot garbage in New York is a different kind of garbage.
- [82:09]
Wargon
Yep.
- [82:09]
Craig Kilborn
Right?
- [82:10]
Wargon
Smells stronger.
- [82:11]
Kyle
It's warm here right now.
- [82:12]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, there you go. A little toasty. Toasts up the the waist. They've been dating for a couple months. And while we met once before, this is a big step. An entire day together and the four of us hit it off. We're even supposed to go on a trip altogether later this month. This is great. We share the same sense of humor. It felt very natural. However, her dad was another story. To set the scene, the house is on one of those gated communities requires multiple knowing multiple existing residents to move in. As you can imagine, years of this process have led to a rather exclusive community. My friend gave us fair warning that our. My girlfriend and I's political views would likely not align with a lot of people we'd be meeting something. I think the 15 don't tread on me flags surrounding our beach chairs gave it away for context. My friend and I don't share the same political and religious views, but we've made sure to never let it come between us. How, you might ask. Simply put, we don't discuss controversial topics. A healthy diet of sports talk and stories from growing up allow us to remain best friends. A few flags and occasional comment I don't agree with. What's well worth time at the beach, considering we're usually surrounded by concrete. That was until her dad took it to another level. Sorry, I'm rambling. Ryan, you can take a water break. I. I gotta keep reading. Dude. The WNBA came up in conversation. Oh. To which his only comment was, dude, I can't read this. I mean, I. I mean, what the guy said is terrible, but even me rereading it and all of us agreeing that it's a terrible comment so we could.
- [83:41]
Wargon
We could all use our imagination.
- [83:42]
Kyle
Yeah, we can figure out what he said.
- [83:46]
Craig Kilborn
It's pretty aggressive. Aggressive enough to stop me in my tracks.
- [83:50]
Wargon
Okay, so that's you reading it or that's you saying it or him.
- [83:54]
Craig Kilborn
No, me right now reacting to it. Okay. And. And the difficulty of me kind of pre reading. Like, if I get a blind one, I'm pre reading. Yep. While I'm reading.
- [84:07]
Wargon
That's a good skill.
- [84:09]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, it leads to some. Some clunkiness every now and then when you're reading and speaking on a podcast. But yeah, I'm just not even. Because I'm just. It's going to be guilt by association on that one. By even repeating something somebody else said. Yeah, there you go. Perfectly said, Kyle. All right, I'm not doing that one. What is going on?
- [84:32]
Wargon
Oh, we're just bailing on the whole. I thought we were just. I thought we were just going to pretend like we all heard the. Whatever this guy said, and then we'd get to the solution. But I guess without knowing, it's hard to come to a solution.
- [84:43]
Craig Kilborn
Okay, let's try this one. What's up, guys? Six foot one, 260, no. Impressive gym stats. Dude, you don't. You don't need to.260. Do you know the hockey player that Chucked the kid.
- [84:56]
Wargon
Yeah.
- [84:56]
Craig Kilborn
Everybody knows this video now, Tarnaski.
- [84:59]
Wargon
We're calling that guy a kid that went the pond. Well, I think he was a little man. I think he was just a little man.
- [85:08]
Craig Kilborn
What's that guy's weak pin like? Oh, my God, dude, can you imagine? Like, do you even go out?
- [85:14]
Wargon
No, I couldn't imagine. Someone wants to know his name, right?
- [85:18]
Craig Kilborn
I mean, I'm sure there's probably people that know or have been all over it. I mean, clearly the guy was hammered. But I really was wondering, because when they were yelling at him, they were like, you've been. You've been at the tee box like 20 minutes. And so I don't know if he was trying to blame the group in front of him. 20 minutes is an insanely long time. So I'm not even sure if that's necessarily true. But then it gets back to kind of one of those things I've always thought about. I think there should be some baseline thing that you should be able to do for you to be approved to get a full arm sleeve. And then when you're going at an enforcer in the NHL, which, by the way, I looked him up. He was listed at 622220 when he played. He's clearly more than 220 now, but he's 240. But if he's like, in the video, that guy looks like he's the mountain. He looks like he's 66270. So that means the other guy is what?
- [86:11]
Wargon
Right.
- [86:11]
Craig Kilborn
Hey, look, don't talk to me about an angle.
- [86:14]
Wargon
I think some guys need to really take a look at themselves. How have you played your last seven rounds of golf? Maybe we. Maybe we can expand that or contract it. But when it's becoming like, I don't know if I should tee off yet, and we're dealing with backups. Like, be honest with your game. Are you going to fly the. Are you going to fly the green, or are you going to go over there in the woods and get it and maybe we could get this show on the road. I understand you don't want to hit into someone, but at a certain point, you don't have to wait till people clear the whole, you know, clear the green if that's not where you're going, buddy.
- [86:44]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, you're asking for the grain on a three putt. You know, Come on. What's the grain here anyway? Yeah, no, it's fair. Maybe that'd be more important than just an updated handicap. Like, what's Your social golf rating last seven rounds.
- [87:02]
Wargon
Yeah, because it's like making traffic like you can see. You can watch how it builds up.
- [87:06]
Craig Kilborn
And then, you know, I baked Alaska at the turn. All right, so let's get back to our guy here. 260. Fat and happy. I'm married. I'll get straight to the point so I don't have to apologize for a long email. 47. So I've hit the age where all my friends are either already married or probably not getting married. The last wedding my wife and I attended was about seven, eight years ago. Why'd you laugh at that, Kyle? Smash cut to the last month. Received a saved date for a wedding this fall for a relative, little backstory. She was doing her surgical residency at the hospital I work at and needed a place to stay. I offered up our guest room and she was with us for a few months. Both my daughters adore her and have never been to a wedding. They're both psyched. Wow, this all sounds great. My relative is about a year away from being a surgeon and her soon to be husband is a commercial pilot. My wife and I both have great careers, but safe to say we won't be in the same tax bracket as the future Mr. And Mrs. Redacted. My question is this. What's a suitable wedding gift these days? A couple hundred bucks doesn't even seem like it would cover the cost at dinner for a family of four. And I've been out of the wedding game too long to know what proper these days. Any advice on the High Council from the High Council could offer up greatly. Appreciate it. Love the pod. Already bummed. The schedule's about to get lighter. Can't wait for football season. Okay, thank you. Thanks for listening. Look, I think a lot of it has everything to do. I think you're using the tax bracket analogy here. Your tax bracket is the deciding factor. And the people getting married should understand what someone is capable of. They shouldn't be holding everybody the exact same standard. So, like, let's face it, I have guys. I have guys that I don't think I even got wedding gifts for and was just like, how long do I have? It was like, oh, you have a year. It was like the best news ever. I was like, that's awesome. You know, the smart thing should have been pick something with registry. If it's a spatula and it's a nice one, fucking get it.
- [88:54]
Wargon
Get on the name on that list.
- [88:55]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Like the number of wives during my 20s that were probably like, he didn't send anything. Now, did I make up for it and did it end up costing me? It was almost like I had a horrible interest rate on it. Because then once I started okay, and then better, and then I think one guy was like, we were close enough friends that we could laugh about it, but I was like, hey, he came to visit me. And I was like, I have a bunch of stuff for your wife. Like, just tell her it was nice stuff.
- [89:23]
Kyle
And he was like, it's a good spatula, dude.
- [89:26]
Craig Kilborn
Right? He kind of just looked at me like, I don't know if this is worse.
- [89:30]
Wargon
Should we. Should we reopen this wound?
- [89:32]
Craig Kilborn
I don't know. Yeah. So. War gun.
- [89:35]
Albert Breer
I know.
- [89:35]
Craig Kilborn
Especially since I'm not going to be making it. You'll do all right for me. I'm so. You know, there's that part of it.
- [89:43]
Wargon
I'm here to tell you that.
- [89:44]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, Kyle can back me up on that one.
- [89:46]
Kyle
You. You give whatever you can give.
- [89:48]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, right, Exactly. Don't.
- [89:49]
Kyle
Don't put yourself in, like, financial hardship for especially a family member. They're related, he said, right. I don't know how closely, but, like, don't put yourself in financial hardship. There's four of you, so take that into consideration. But, like, give what you can give.
- [90:03]
Wargon
I think. Think about covering your plate. Right? And I don't know if you're like.
- [90:07]
Craig Kilborn
I like that, Kyle.
- [90:08]
Wargon
I don't know if you're the hip to the planning of this, but, you know, if. If it's. You know, I think a lot. A general, normal. I don't know about a pilot and a. And a surgeon, if they're going to $120 a plate thing, but that's sort of what we were hovering around. And, you know, the only thing that stands out is when your fucking buddy brings a girl and gives you 50 bucks and it's like, huh, all right. Didn't cover half of it.
- [90:36]
Craig Kilborn
Got it.
- [90:36]
Wargon
Didn't cover a quarter of what you took up.
- [90:38]
Craig Kilborn
We're operating the red. Yes.
- [90:41]
Wargon
Yes. Oh, great. His brother came to same deal. Great. But I think. I think that's really the only way it stands out. So, yeah, whatever you feel good about, as long as you're not in that.
- [90:52]
Craig Kilborn
You know, I think no gift is.
- [90:55]
Wargon
Better than bad gift. And so I. I think you. You should be able to figure it out. And then maybe. Maybe you'll know what kind of wedding this is and you'll have a better idea of what four people will cost them.
- [91:05]
Kyle
Speaking of, Kyle, you see your guy Drake May donated all of his wedding gifts.
- [91:09]
Wargon
Of course I did. Yeah, I did.
- [91:11]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah.
- [91:12]
Wargon
Yeah. Things are going so well. I didn't even want to, like, repost that. I just think there's too many good vibes. It looks like Stefan Diggs is almost smiling in some of those photos. So I'm like, this could be good.
- [91:21]
Craig Kilborn
I wish I understood the registry thing better when I first got into the game. Because it's on the registry, right? You're not assigned something specifically. Right.
- [91:32]
Wargon
You could choose cash or you can pick something there.
- [91:35]
Craig Kilborn
You're from Dedham. Okay. Like, he got his. Not the waffle maker, but a slate for pancakes. Right, right, right. You're from Westport. Maybe a little Restoration Hardware, you know.
- [91:50]
Wargon
So my wife went pretty hard on that registry, and I was like, remember, we live in an apartment. Cash is good. And then I'm like, oh, look, salad spoons.
- [92:01]
Craig Kilborn
Nice.
- [92:02]
Wargon
Someone. Someone's off the hook with $28 salad spoons from anthropology.
- [92:06]
Craig Kilborn
Awesome.
- [92:08]
Wargon
I even checked to see, like, oh, wow, look. All those little guys got ticked off the box real quick. There's a lot of happy people out there that are happy to give us some napkin rings. We don't have napkins. Why did you put that on there? But anyway, that's why I go with cash. Because I just remember being like, God damn it, they got the napkin rings.
- [92:26]
Craig Kilborn
We got napkin rings too. And I'm like, right. As long as this is like most reasonable people, I don't know that you really need to worry about this. However, I would warn some of you that make gifts. You better be really good at what you're doing. A craftsman. Yes. Because sometimes you're like, well, no, I'm just going to make the gift like, okay. Like, yeah, this is a cookout biblical. You can wear it at your cookouts. It says I'm with her. I don't know, whatever. All right. I become the villain in my local tennis league. Hey, this could be off of our golf thing. What's up, fellas? First time, long time. Stats. 5 11, not afraid. 205 used to be the Marcus hall of my CYO league until I stopped growing at the age of 13 and everyone else caught up and I forgot the guard skills. I grew up occasionally hitting the old tennis ball around with my dad and my sister and even went to a couple week long camps way back then, but never played an official match until last year. That changed when I joined a USTA rec league in a Boston suburb. Since the spring of 24, it's been a ton of Fun and a highlight of the week for me. The league has a mixed bag of competition for mixed doubles. Some people look like Johnny Mack out there and some look like they've never played before. I'd like to think I'm somewhere in the middle. I can't really serve or hit for power, but I'm pretty quick in the net and have a reliable backhand. Maybe this puts me in the upper echelon of the intro rec league. Okay, this past spring I think I've become vilified. I think I became vilified within the league. The league coordinator actively roots against me during the matches, clapping and cheering any of my unforced errors. Some random dude was parking his car along the core and stopped to check out the scene and even he started booing some of my winners. What?
- [94:17]
Wargon
What did you do man?
- [94:19]
Craig Kilborn
What did you do? Yeah, just so we understand that a random guy who parked his car decided to watch a few points and then after he watched you, he started booing you when you did.
- [94:33]
Wargon
Well, everyone is on the same page with sports hating you, which is the easiest type of hate to get on board with. Which sucks for you.
- [94:40]
Craig Kilborn
In the championship match last season, which our team had no shot of winning, one of the opponents stopped the match to tell me out loud, quote, you are really annoying to play against. I don't like playing with you at all. End quote. Which I found weird for a rec league tennis match. Where's the UT USTA spirit? A little later on in the match he took a lob from me and smacked it down. It gave me a prime Serena Williams inspired fist pump and her team beat mine in straight sets. I guess some personal reflection. I'm a bit of a self construct. I'm a bit self constructive on the court towards myself saying things like come on Pacino, got to have that or exalting damn it on a miss. But that I believe is the only real criticizing of myself and not hurting others. Maybe others perceive it that I think I'm better than them, but that is not my intention. I'm afraid of not being asked to play in this league anymore and having to find a different league. The only problem is the next closest league to me is a level up where I will definitely be a small fish in a big pond. My question ultimately lies with a personal dilemma. Do I embrace the villain role? Should I start putting my hand up to my ear like Alcaraz when people start booing me? Or on winners smackdowns in the net? Do I need to tone down the action at the Net and live self critique or do I bite the bullet and join the more competitive league and get washed there?
- [95:52]
Wargon
Did you ask what the hell is going on?
- [95:54]
Kyle
There's something that we don't know.
- [95:56]
Wargon
Yeah. When that person said, you know, you're.
- [95:58]
Craig Kilborn
Really annoying to play with, I think there's something he doesn't know. I think we got it. Yeah.
- [96:02]
Wargon
Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Maybe you should find out. I know. I. Maybe I. I get. I get you don't want to be like, you know, you don't want to cave to the haters or whatever, but you might at least want to know what they're hating on. I think it sounds like there's. There's something.
- [96:15]
Kyle
There's something.
- [96:16]
Wargon
I don't know.
- [96:16]
Craig Kilborn
Something's.
- [96:16]
Wargon
You know, I haven't played tennis really, since I was, like, a little kid, and it didn't. Didn't really take to it then, either. But, like, I don't know. Are you, like, smacking it at people's feet? Like, is there something that, like, you can do? But it sucks. Like, I don't. I don't know. I don't know what that would be for tennis, but maybe you're just, like, you think you have an edge and actually you're, like, cheating or. I don't know if cheating you would have been called out for, but I don't know. There's got to be something.
- [96:39]
Craig Kilborn
Man, he probably never stops. I've referenced it a few times, but when Agassi in his biography, which I think is worth reading, even if you're not a huge tennis person. I didn't even really like Agassi after the book. I loved him, but he makes an incredible point. He's like, even golfers have a caddy, right? If you're playing tennis. And I used to play against Sarah and Matt when they lived down the street. We all started getting into it. And the funny thing is, Matt was more athletic than me. I thought I was better, but then usually his athleticism would win out. And then Sarah would hit it right in the middle. She would hit it back to you right in the middle every time. And you're like, I'm going to kill her. And it came back in the middle every fucking time. Like, zero unforced errors. So it was fun. The three of us would have these matches, and what you don't realize, especially if you're competitive and clearly Matt pitched and Sarah played college soccer and I'm just a lunatic. But you are talking to yourself so much, and that's Agassiz's entire point. You may be able to look at your coach in a big match and look at him and he's looking back at you, but you were sitting there with your thoughts. It's like a way cooler version of painting. It's the reason why I always hated painting, because you were just sitting there with your thoughts, painting for eight hour shifts. And it just drove me crazy. And, you know, I think the real goal is to learn how to just chill out a little bit. But the what's happening here is like, you know, you're down, you're down. Love 30 or something. You're just like, okay, this, I have to win this point. I have to win this point. I have to win this point. So you're, you're building up like all of this mental tension with nowhere to release it other than the outcome of the point. And then when it doesn't go your way, like you're just clearly verbalizing this in a way that's either incredibly.
- [98:20]
Wargon
Yeah, right.
- [98:21]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah, right.
- [98:21]
Wargon
No one likes either one.
- [98:23]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. So I, I can tell what you're doing, but man, I mean, think about it. A stranger who had no affiliation to anybody, watched a few volleys and decided to start rooting against you. So you have to be all time annoying. And I think you know that you are, but you don't. Maybe because you understand your intent better than anybody else and you're thinking like, I'm not actually doing this to show anyone up, but if somebody yelled at you and said, hey, you're really annoying. And granted, maybe because it's outside of Boston, somebody else is a little bit more willing to tell you how annoying you are.
- [98:54]
Wargon
Yeah, the threshold.
- [98:55]
Craig Kilborn
Maybe if you live somewhere else geographically, they would just be like, what's wrong with this guy? But you have to probably pay a little bit more attention to how verbal you're being throughout an entire match. That's just these things. We can pretend and say, hey, none of it really matters, but you're not joining this kind of thing unless you're competitive. But I do think tennis brings out something in competitive people that makes them crazier than anything else, because it really is such. You could talk about sprinting, but then it's over. Swimming for the most part. I mean, depending there's a thousand different distances and all that kind of stuff, that's its own different challenge. But tennis can go on forever. And then you're talking yourself into being just convinced I'm going to win this point, and then you don't. And you're just clearly freaking out. And your vibe is an entirely different level than everybody else that's in this group. And it's probably driving everyone crazy. And this is where you're stuck.
- [99:48]
Wargon
I wonder, like, what are you wearing? Like, I'm trying to think, is there a version of the guy who shows up to pick up with the shooting sleeve and a headband and like, maybe like a matching outfit, you know, like a. No, I'm not saying like a Knicks, you know, top and bottom, but, like, maybe there's like. It's like, wow, this whole thing's a little cool coordinated. And then he's like, maybe he shoots a little more than you think. And it's like, maybe that part alone, if the guy was just chucking a little bit, you'd be this much angry. But because he looks like a douchebag, you've like it. It raises everything up. Is there like a version of that for tennis? I don't know. You played, like, could you be showing up, just already pissing people off?
- [100:25]
Craig Kilborn
No, I know what you're saying. I mean, as somebody who wore a shooting sleeve during the early 2000s for a little stretch, I mean, everyone bought one.
- [100:32]
Wargon
I mean, the question is, do you have stones to wear today?
- [100:35]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. Do I regret it? I don't.
- [100:41]
Kyle
When I. When I first graduated high school, I was on the high school golf team. I was pretty good. I could drive the ball like 300 yards.
- [100:46]
Ryan Russillo
I would show up.
- [100:48]
Kyle
Not anymore. I haven't played in years. I would show up wearing the all orange Ricky Fowler gear, hat, shirt, pants.
- [100:55]
Wargon
Dude.
- [100:55]
Kyle
People would look at me and be like, who the is this now?
- [100:57]
Craig Kilborn
Do we have a picture of this?
- [101:00]
Kyle
I don't know.
- [101:01]
Craig Kilborn
I don't know.
- [101:02]
Kyle
But it was hilarious.
- [101:06]
Craig Kilborn
I think it's a great question, Kyle. Great.
- [101:08]
Wargon
It's a great question for a lot of sports, too. I wonder if there's like one. One for swimming. I can't imagine, but I don't know. I'm trying to think.
- [101:15]
Kyle
My question would be, I wonder if there's some, like, heavy grunting going on on, like, every single swing.
- [101:21]
Wargon
But that's a. People kind of accept that, though with tennis.
- [101:24]
Kyle
I don't know about any in, like, amateur tennis.
- [101:26]
Ryan Russillo
Do you, though?
- [101:27]
Craig Kilborn
Yeah. Monica Sell is at Wimbledon. That even that was a little annoying. Right? Yeah. Okay.
- [101:33]
Wargon
No, you're right. We're covering all bases here. You got to ask yourself a lot of questions. If you're not going to ask anyone else who seems to hate you, shouldn't be hard to find someone to ask, it seems like.
- [101:43]
Craig Kilborn
No. I don't know. Okay. All right. That'll do it for us. Worgon. Congrats. Have a great weekend. Celebrating your love. And celebrating loneliness is taking an l this weekend, buddy. Yeah. And Kyle wheels up tomorrow.
- [102:04]
Wargon
Comfort plus, baby. I'm coming in in the right headspace. I might even get upgraded. I just said yes. Any anywhere in first.
- [102:11]
Craig Kilborn
Are you doing a little Poughkeepsie run off of this, I imagine.
- [102:13]
Wargon
No, I'm doing three weeks of Poughkeepsie in early August, so it's tempting one of the guys might shoot down and meet me for dinner tomorrow, but.
- [102:20]
Craig Kilborn
So you're going straight in and then right back to la? Yeah. Kyle's a legend. Have you hung out with Kyle in a social setting other than the Coors light we all shared at my house?
- [102:32]
Wargon
I think that's a no.
- [102:33]
Kyle
Coors light. I saw him at Philly when we did the live show. Yep, I think that's about it.
- [102:41]
Craig Kilborn
All right. Yeah, we'll report back. It's coming in hot. Back in his. Back in his local haunts. I can't wait. I can't wait to hear a full recap. Unfortunately, he might even have to tape something next week. I don't know. But we can't do that. No offense to your wedding or Kyle. I just don't want. I don't know if we can do wedding recap right off a Chernow. Same episode. I think we have to let Chernow. We gotta just let him ice up. Yeah, if that's okay. That's okay with everybody. All right. You guys are the best. Thanks to Wargon. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to free us Ryan R podcast on Spotify and also YouTube. And thanks for listening.
- [103:21]
Kyle
They were going to name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it. So they named me Michael. Jared.
- [103:40]
Craig Kilborn
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