← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
How to Stop SGA and Brunson with Raja Bell. Plus, Conference Finals Preview.
01:25:46
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- [00:00]
Ryan Marcillo
You're listening to the Ryan Marcillo podcast presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 100 GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com on today's pod we have Raja Bell on uh, we're going to get into a deep dive on the Eastern and Western Conference finals. We'll talk about some of the other theories I have, but it's just a good little back and forth with a guy that I really like talking hoops with. And we have a Kyle Heavy. I don't know if it's Kyle Heavy, but we have life advice and it's about 30 minutes and Kyle's in it. So what else do you need? This episode is brought to you by Lionsgate. From the world of John Wick comes the movie Ballerina, only in theaters June 6th. The greatest action franchise of the past.
- [01:25]
Kyle
Decade is back, starring Ana de Armas.
- [01:27]
Ryan Marcillo
And Keanu Reeves returning as John Wick. Everything you love is here, the mythology, the characters, the high intensity action. But this time the universe expands with.
- [01:37]
Kyle
New faces, new settings and even higher stakes.
- [01:40]
Ryan Marcillo
Ballerina, only in theaters June 6th. Joining us to dig in to getting into the conference finals, we have Raja Bell, who along with Logan Murdoch, part of the Real Ones podcast. It's out Tuesdays and Thursdays. They've got a good Giannis episode. Talking about that and also the self described best playoff preview in the business. So make sure you check that one out. It's good to see you.
- [02:05]
Raja Bell
Yeah, good to see you too. I didn't know we I didn't know we were we had self proclaimed that.
- [02:08]
Ryan Marcillo
But hey, I'm not missing it if it's the best. We'll try to do as good of a job. Let's, let's start in the east here a little bit. There's not really much left to say with Cleveland, but since we haven't really talked, you know, I Think that if you were Kobe Altman or Kenny Atkinson, you could say, okay, look, I mean, it sucks we lost, but we had a, you know, compromise. Garland, we missed Mobley for a game. Blow the game, too. But I still think that Game five for them to get that lead and then the Pacers to put it on him and come back and close that one out and close out game two, like, there's something to be said of what the Pacers did to this team. So I think both things can be true, that the Cavs have legit excuses, but the Pacers put it on them. And so when you look at that series and their comfort level now, getting through what they got through last year, but then closing out a really special Cleveland team, special regular season team, how much do you think that factors in to how you see the east playing out?
- [03:07]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be really, it's gonna be a really interesting stomach for them because it's almost, you know, for me, I was saying a week or so ago, it's like the worst place to be in if you're, if you're the Cavs, Dan Gilbert and Kobe, it's, it's that, you know, you could make the excuse, if you wanted to make the excuse to hang on and not have to shake it up at all. Right. Like, you could very easily hide behind what you said. Like, we had a couple injuries, things just didn't go our way in terms of health. Having said that, I, I, I do think that fundamentally, like, from a roster perspective, if, if I could, I would explore what was out there. Like, I, I like their nucleus. I, you know, the question was posed to me about Garland, that would be the one that, if I, if I could see what was out there on the market. This is just me personally, nothing against the player, but if I could find something else out there that made sense and only have to, you know, part with something like that, I would entertain it. I'm not a big blow up guy. I think they're really close to it. But that was definitely concerning what happened in that, in that series, despite the injuries.
- [04:10]
Ryan Marcillo
So when you look at the Pacers defensive options against Brunson, I mean, how does that, like, I thought Detroit, you know, watching that series, I'm thinking, okay, really good effort from Schroeder, but like, there's some bad switching matchups that have to get stuck with Brunson. And the reason, one of the reasons why I thought Boston would win the series is like, this is going to be a totally different challenge. What do you think the Pacers have for Brunson and how that compares to, like, teams that are ready for it or teams where you feel like they'll get exposed?
- [04:41]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I think first of all, he, you know, he's going to do what he does late in a game, period. I think. I think, you know, so the question is, can you make the rest of those guys have to work in a way that might be uncomfortable for them to get him to that point striking distance late in the game? Right. Like to keep them in it? I think they have a unique. A unique formula. They got length and they have. And they have, you know, rangy defenders. Like, Halliburton's a rangy guy. Siakam out there is just as long as you can get. Miles moves his feet pretty well. You know, they have people that in a switch situation can really stay down and stay long. Like, with him, I watch him and, you know, the question is, do you have to get close enough to him to give him your body as a defender? And once you give him your body as a defender, like, he's just a master at a bump. At a. Like, once you get bumped as a defender, you feel like you're at a disadvantage. So it puts me as the defender in a survival mode. So the next thing you do, typically, I'm going to react to that. So then a bump in the head fake, and you're getting a lot of people in the air because they feel like they're behind on the play. Right. And so if you don't have to give him your body because you can space him with length and still challenge a jump shot, that's the ideal situation for me, looking at having to guard Brunson. And so, you know, I think they have some pieces. I think there's some advantageous switches for him as well. But I think the Pacers have a lot of length out there on the wing that could space him in a way where they don't have to react to all of that bumping and then reacting.
- [06:15]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, I think we're going to see a lot of TJ picking them up full court and trying to, you know, be like a SAR who I thought fought with Brunson. Well, I mean, I still think about how he just wrote him out of bounds on that one and Brunson wanted the foul on the scores table. And then you watch the replay, you're like, man, he just kind of like, he just guided him out of bounds, which is like, feels impossible against the best players in this league. N. Smith is Chaos in a. In a good way. But I also think he's probably going to foul out of every one of these games. I think Matheren has stepped up his defense from a place where you felt like you could attack him to now. You know, I think his effort, I think his competitiveness, I think there's a real edge with Matheran that I absolutely love. But you're right. Like you, we can all sit here and talk about switches and he'll. He'll hunt. He'll try to hunt Turner and bring him up. He's going to prefer to attack Halliburton over a. Nemhardt over a knee Smith, he's not going to want to switch necessarily into Siakam because of some of that length. But you're right. It's just. You're still going to see the 28 9. Like, it's still happening and he's still going to get his free throws. So I'm asking you as like somebody, this would have been your assignment. Like, I imagine the first thing is stay on the ground. Like, my first thing is stay down. What else are you trying to do in prepping yourself for what should be a long series?
- [07:36]
Raja Bell
Yeah, well, so it's a great. It's a great question. And, and just to like, just to go back a little bit. You talk about TJ Picking him up full court. Like, the number one thing is just start to wear on him from the jump like this. You're not going to win this series in game one. So. So, like, let's just start to kind of a la Houston with, with Steph Curry. Let's just start to pay the tolls early. Let's get in front of it and just start to beat him up as much as we can. Keep a body on him, make him have to work to. To bring it up the court. People. People don't realize the toll that that takes on a point guard physically and emotionally. Just to have to work. That's six seconds of work off every play. If you don't pick him up in the front court, you pick him up in the front court, he's working six seconds. Every play like that starts to take a toll. So starting there is that. That's important game plan wise. Staying down is like the most. It was the same with D. Wade, like, you know, force him to screens, right? Because D. Wade was a reject guy. And then stay down. No matter what happens, stay down. Make him have to finish over length. He does it very well. But like I learned pretty early in my career and Most people know this great offense is going to be great defense. Just, it's just going to beat it every time. There's nothing you're going to be able to do for a Kobe Bryant basically laying horizontal and shooting a 16 footer over a defensive possession that you felt like you did everything right on. So with a guy like Brunson, it's very similar. I'd like to keep him on the perimeter as much as I could. Like if I could find ways to build those perceived walls as a team defense that doesn't let him feel like he can get in those cracks and crevices. And then once he's in the mid post, I kind of, I have to be on his body, Ryan. So like, that's his wheelhouse. I'd like to see if I could keep him maybe settling for more jumpers than he normally does. I think part of his brilliance as an offensive player specifically for that team is that he does so much of that work in the paint anytime you can get. And this was my beef with Boston. It wasn't that they were shooting the threes as much as they were. It was how they decided to shoot them once they get hot. There was no real presence in the paint anymore. These were just. We're never going to explore whether we can collapse your defense and we're just going to catch threes. That's very different than collapsing the defense over and over again. Right. So if I can keep Brunson out of the middle of that paint, I'd like to, I'd like to explore every opportunity to do that and then keep him off the foul line. It's always important off the foul line, you know, which goes hand in hand with staying down with him once he gives it up. I always felt like if, you know, again, we're, we're playing this five, six game series in our mind every time he gives it up. If I can make him work to catch it again in a spot that he, that he's not the best in, because now he's got to work to get me to the spot where he wants to be so I can get six seconds in the backorder, extra work, he gives it up. I can get the sick. I could get the couple seconds of, hey, having to pop out somewhere to get it where he doesn't want it. And then I get the extra work of having me now having to have him get me to where he wants to score. That's a lot of work that accumulates on him. Right. Like, and this all goes into the game plan, maybe not a great answer, but like, those are all things that would take their toll on a guy over the course of a series.
- [10:58]
Ryan Marcillo
No, those are, those are great because, you know, there's a lot of that series. I think Boston probably felt good watching the tape and how they contained him. But again, there's all sorts of different stuff we could go through in that series. And the fact is that of all the players that are out there, and I imagine, you know, maybe Halliburton has, has the kind of ego and confidence that can match Brunson a little bit. Because it was pretty clear against Boston, it's like, oh, Brunson's the most comfortable despite the resume and despite the title that this group has. Like, Brunson's just more comfortable in this stuff to close out games. So I want to ask you about like defense and fouling and then maybe we'll, we'll get your pick on this one. But, you know, after the Caruso matchup with Jokic stuff, you know, it turns into a bunch of different debates. It's usually everybody's made up their mind ahead of time and then they're just going to use the evidence to, to back their argument part of it. But it's very clear that smaller players against big players can do whatever they want. And, and I'm not like using that as the exam. I mean, you lose, you're down 40 or 50 points. Like, this is not why Denver lost Game 7, but it felt like, at least for me, Roger that. It was like a three part thing with, with how they would defend. It's like Caruso's there to kind of in football like chip Jokic and then it's on the catch and then it's, okay, here's the next stage of this. So if Caruso can muddy the timing just by fighting with Jokic in here, it's not going to necessarily stop Jokic, but it's going to just delay all of this stuff. We're going to be able to disrupt this stuff as a smaller player. The problem is now like Neesmith can say, hey, they can't call them all, because I think Caruso's probably going, hey, they can't call all of it. And I don't even feel like he was hacking him so badly that again, that it was like necessarily part of the game outcome when you knew that. Like, it's funny because with Brunson they might call them all against, against Cat, they're not calling all of them. How do you balance that when you're thinking about how you're getting switched or what your primary assignment is.
- [13:06]
Raja Bell
Yeah, it's a. Well, let's just say, you know, what Caruso did to. To Jokic is kind of what I was saying that you want to do to any great scorer. When you're talking about chipping, I mean, it's essentially you. You described it well in terms of just kind of muddying up the process of getting the ball. The way I kind of explain it on top of that is now, you know, because I fought him so hard, and I've just basically surrendered to this fight. He's got to catch it three feet away from where he really wants to catch it, right? And he's preoccupied with this fucking fight now. So now I've got him off of his spot, both mentally and physically. Like, I've done my job. Then it's. Then it's up to, like, whether or not I do get that second wave of support coming to help me or not. The way I approach that with. With like a Cat, if I'm. If I'm. Anyone else, is really 100% predicated on whether or not he's cooking or not. If he's, you know, he's one of those words, Jokic, you know, you got to put that fire out. Like, Cat. I mean, I might not have to build a defensive game plan to accommodate for him right off the bat. He might. He. There's a world in that he's not there. Do you know what I mean? So I think I would. If I were the Pacers, yeah, I'd have a. I'd have a game plan for it, but my primary would be Jalen Brunson. Like, I'd expend Everybody, you know, 97% of my Scout time on, like, how we're going to defend that. And then, you know, Cat, I think if he's working the post more than he's, like, stretching the floor and shooting, I think I might be all right with that. If I'm the Pacers. You know, if we keep getting that switch and he wants to go down there and play in the mid post and have his back to the basket, I think he can be more dangerous for them at times when he's spacing and then he's allowing Brunson to be in the middle of that paint, and then, you know, all those other guys are able to operate kind of around the rim because your big is attached to him.
- [14:56]
Ryan Marcillo
I'll tell you, it. It feels like with the Pacers, you kind of have to defend Everything, right. You've got to be ready. That whole idea of, like, all those possessions over the course of a series, like, you have to get back. If you're the other side of the shot, you have to get back. You've got to make sure you're back in transition, and that can wear on you. The same way we were talking about facing somebody picking you up full court. But the struggle I've had in kind of picking this series is, is it going to be that the Pacers, you have to defend everything the entire game versus the one guy that's better at closing than any of the 10 players are going to be on the floor, or do I take the Knicks? Because this Mitchell Robinson thing is real. It's been terrific. And thinking about how much the Celtics struggled in the physical part of this. That restricted area was owned by the Knicks during that series, and in an alarming way. And when I think Turner's, like, your only option other than the. The handful of Thomas Bryant minutes that they're going to just try to save Turner with, it's. When you go to that side of what we saw from the Knicks and how big they played, that's the tough thing to get past. When I try to figure out if I can pick the Pacers.
- [16:06]
Raja Bell
Yeah, look at this one. I've gone back and forth on. I was, I was firmly, you know, Knicks over the weekend, I was out at UA with my. My boy in Ohio, and I was. I was like, man, the Pacers can get them out on this highway and just get up and down like we. The Knicks could be in a world of hurt. And then I think I've come back to the Knicks, Ryan. I think for all the reasons you just talked about, and that's been the theme of this playoffs, right? In terms of the whistle that's being, either, you know, gotten or not gotten, like, this has been physical. They've allowed these playoffs from the very jump. They've allowed a level of physicality that's kind of near and dear to my heart. I've been, I've been watching it and, and, and feeling real nostalgic every night on. On the couch. But if we're going to live in that world, I. I am taking the Knicks. I'm. I'm just taking them. They're physical. They'll grind you out. Um, they just, you know, I don't know what it is, but they. It's going to sound real cliche, like some teams just stop believing at some point in a game, like down 12 late in the third. I mean, yeah, we're going to give it a shot. You know, typically, you don't see it as much in the playoffs, but still, the Knicks just have this. Stick to it. I, that, that, that is really interesting for me. So, like, you could. I convinced my, I could convince myself that even if the Pacers run away, you know, 10, 12, 15 at some point, because they hit one of these, you know, incredible transition runs, and they're just lighting you up like the Knicks are still going to be there. And I like the physicality to win out over the course of time. I just. I. The more physical football team wins when they're reffing it like this, the more physical basketball team wins. Usually the more physical hockey team wins, the more physical soccer team wins. Like, I'm. I'm going to go with that.
- [17:49]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah. It's hard to dispute that. I've really struggled with this one, but I'm. I'm going to go Pacers. I, you know, I'm not, there's not conviction just because I think this is going to be an awesome series. You know, I'd be surprised if it's a short series either way, and then, you know, who knows? We're surprised by outcomes all the time. Where are you on Halliburton? Would you hate him if you played against him and love him as a teammate?
- [18:11]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I think so. I think I'd be. I, you know what? I think he'd be the kind of dude that I'd be entertained by. Like, I'd hate him, but I'd probably be cool with him because I, I, I just like his style. I kind of like, I like this. I like people with a little bit of shit about him. And for, you know, for whatever, man. He's got a lot of shit to him, man. And I'll tell you, like, this. You touched on it. I, I have Brunson as my, like, he, he's the number one closer, but Halle is, like, right there. And if there is anybody that would convince themselves first and foremost. Right, because that's what this is all about. Like, I got to believe that I'm as good a closer as you are. Like, I don't think there's a piece of Halliburton that doesn't believe he could close like Jalen Brunson.
- [18:51]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah. And he closes in a different way. Like, he closes with opportunities because I don't think he's convinced he's taking this shot when he has those huge possessions. Like, I think his, his approach to the game is that, hey, there might be something I see that I actually like a little bit better than me just getting it. And then, of course, he also has some of those shots that he hit against Cavs where it's like, I'm not giving this ball up because I just have the utmost confidence and look, the most overrated thing. When you look at the total voting of the number of players that actually voted and put Halliburton down, I think it's a good reminder that there's so many people that didn't vote on that, and it ended up being a pretty low total number. But because he was voted, like, he's the headline, like, hey, this is the winner. And I can understand, like, kind of hating him if he had to go up against him, but I don't know any neutral person. Like, if you love basketball, you should love the way this guy plays, because I. I think he does play the game in a fun. Like, it's aesthetically pleased. It's not Vince Carter. It's not. And it's not that kind of stuff, but his control of the game is something I know. I appreciate.
- [19:57]
Raja Bell
Yeah, totally. He's got. He's got a. He's a conductor, right? Like, he, He. He. He's just making all those pieces work together. And I love it because it's a unique game. Like, it's kind of offbeat. It's got a. You know, I don't. I don't. If you said, hey, draw comp to somebody he plays, like, it's going to be really hard for me because he's just got this kind of unique flair to his game. I appreciate it.
- [20:19]
Ryan Marcillo
Is there anyone that you can think of that you were like, hey, this guy was annoying to a lot of people? But I appreciated the. I'd say at times it's arrogance, but again, basketball and athletics, I'd rather you be arrogant than be doubting yourself here. Is there someone you can think of from your era that you were like, all right, this guy feels himself quite a bit, but I actually appreciate it?
- [20:44]
Raja Bell
No, because with the. No, because I always hated those dudes. I was too close to it. I didn't have their perspective. I probably would have hated him. Like, I would have hated him because he would have been annoying as hell, and. And I'd want to fight him all the time, but, no, I can't. I always. I was too deep in the trenches at that point to really have an appreciation for anyone.
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Ryan Marcillo
Trying to think. Trying to think of somebody that you would have gone up against back in the day.
- [21:11]
Raja Bell
Let's keep it a buck. Kobe was like that for me. I mean, it's an easy one, but like.
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Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, but I mean, he's too good. He doesn't.
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Raja Bell
That's fair.
- [21:18]
Ryan Marcillo
No, I feel like every interview I ever see with, you know, it's like, hey, let's do Kobe stories again.
- [21:23]
Raja Bell
You know who was like that? I use his name a lot and like, Kevin Martin was kind of like that. But Kevin Martin didn't have an arrogance. He was really understated. Like, he was. He wasn't like a brash dude, but like he had a weird kind of herky jerky game. He was tough as hell to guard. Like, I hated guarded him. And I just had a lot of respect for his game, man. Like, he's an interesting one for me.
- [21:44]
Ryan Marcillo
Dion Glover.
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Raja Bell
I didn't play glove. Glove is my guy. I go glove. I didn't get it to match up with glove too much.
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Ryan Marcillo
Ira Newble.
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Raja Bell
Ira is my guy. So I played the CBA with Ira, went to spurs camp. They kept Ira. Who'd they kept? They kept. They cut me. They kept Iraq, Sean L. Scott and Derek Dial and. And I had to go back to the cba. So those are my guys.
- [22:12]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah. I gotta tell you, there was some Cavs seasons in there. I was like, you know, I'm not. You're gonna throw Ira Newble out there for 15 minutes. I don't hate it.
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Raja Bell
Yeah. Yeah. I like Ira. Ira's tough, man.
- [22:25]
Ryan Marcillo
The NBA playoffs are finally here, and there's no better way to be a part of the action than with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. After another competitive season, the top teams are ready to battle their way through the playoff bracket in hopes of taking home the championship. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with FanDuel and an NBA profit boost. Simply make your bet, activate your boost and go for even bigger winnings. Okay, I'm feeling a little spicy today on this Western conference final tip. Game 1. Looking at the odds, they have not moved since Sunday night at all. It's still OKC minus 375. So there's a lot in play here. I am personally going to bet the Timberwolves plus seven and a half. I'm just going to go with the. Minnesota has been able to rest. OKC is coming off an absolute grind. The Western Conference has the cross quicker turnaround on the scheduling here. So I would, you know, look, we all know how this goes. But I feel a lot better getting the seven and a half going into this game looking at these teams. And I, I guess I personally think some of the, the numbers are, are looking at the Thunder as a massive, massive favorite in this series overall. So let's put that together and get a little bit more action off of it. So Minnesota plus seven and a half. Anthony Edwards to score 20 or more, which you figure even on a bad night, he's going to get 20 or more. And Divenzo. That's right. Dante DiVincenzo two or more made threes. If you look at it, hit two in game five, two in game four, over in game three, but three of eight in game two. So that's three of the last four games he's hit two or more after disastrous shooting series against the Lakers. And just seeing him, I'm like, I think he's ready to go on a bit of a run here. So Timberwolves plus seven and a half. Edwards plus 20 or more points. Diving Jenzo two or more made threes. That's plus 195. Personally, I probably am just going to go ahead with Minnesota plus the seven and a half. You want to get real, real on this. Minnesota is plus 5,000, or excuse me, that would be ridiculous. Minnesota is plus 550 to win the title. And again, I believe it's plus 3. Now it's plus 295 on the Western Conference Finals. So if you said let's throw in a little NBA Finals action, I mean, now we're just. Now we're just doing crazy stuff here. Well, yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm thinking about it, but since I picked OKC over Boston in the summer for the NBA Finals, it's kind of one of those things. You're like, you're going to go zag against it right now. What I don't want to do too is if I said, hey, go plus 300, and I'm playing the odds and instead they win outright. I'm like, see, I told you. I don't know that that's always entirely fair. But that's the play. That's the play, at least for that. So you've got three legs if you want it, or straight at it with the plus seven and a half. Don't just be a spectator this postseason. Head to FanDuel.com Orion to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more. Must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. opt in required bonus issued is non withdrawable Profit Boost Tokens Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.f handle.com gambling problem. Call 1-800-gambler or visit rg-health.com this episode is brought to you by the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. With U S Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. That's right, every purchase. 2% cash back at restaurants, 2% cash back at the gym, groceries. Yep, you'll earn 2% cash back on those two. New tires, new outfits, New York City getaway. All earn 2% cash back noticing a trend. 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See app for details. Okay, let's talk the West. When Bill and I first saw the line and how heavy a favorite OKC was, I was like, man, that seems, you know, again what these guys do for a living. So I'm not saying they're wrong. I guess I felt like the line when it first came out was a little disrespectful of Minnesota, but it's also following the idea that like OKC probably could have been a 70 win basketball team if they wanted to. Did OKC do enough in that Denver series that makes you think of them differently now?
- [27:52]
Raja Bell
No, I thought. I mean, no, I had them as a Tier 1 Western Conference champion type of team. I had Minnesota and a few other teams in a slight tier 2. For me, I don't think that's changed. You know, I. I wasn't really given pause in The Denver series, you know, these were, these were things that I thought OKC was going to have to do in real time in terms of learning on the fly, learning how to close, learning how to withstand some, some turbulence in a series and still figure out a way to, to sustain, you know, game plans, momentum, play and win series. So like, I don't think I've been moved either way on, on okc. I would just say that I think Minnesota might be closer to the tier than, than, than I had originally thought. Right. Like in this particular series, I think I could make a case for either one of them. So I don't know that it's absolutely clear cut, as clear cut for me as it was kind of coming in. But it didn't really. Nothing OKC has done has shaken me on that. I just think I, I might have underestimated, you know, Minnesota, to be frank.
- [29:05]
Ryan Marcillo
Okay, let's talk about what Denver did in this series. And I, I think it's important. And I wonder, you know, if Minnesota is going to want to go to that. I doubt they're going to want to go to that much zone, but Denver just basically is like, wait, we're his own basketball team now. And what I loved about Game 6, even for OKC in the loss, was I was like, there are points, there are points there for okc. If they can play this a little bit smarter and stop attacking the top and try to figure out a way to like, just get it in the middle. And it's not going to be an SGA attack to get to the middle because they're collapsing everything. Like their number one thing was all that stuff at the top that SGA lives on during the regular season. We're not going to let you do that and we're going to hope everybody else misses enough shots. But if you have Chet running these dunker baseline cuts, like, I, I think they did a much better job of that stuff. And then everything just becomes a mess in Game 7. But that seemed to be the number one priority. I've seen Minnesota send two to SGA in a non zone way where it's like we are going to sell out the last few minutes of a game here to make sure that off a screen or anything we're doing, it's two with you all of the time. Is there something in that that concerns you for, for SGA and Oklahoma City's execution offensively? Because at least when you think about the size and the options Minnesota has in the perimeter, like, there's some actual stuff for Finch to work with which he already knows because of the regular season matchups.
- [30:30]
Raja Bell
Yeah, for sure. And you know, look, it was what it was, the concern we had coming into the, to the postseason with them was if you were going to get the, you know, the J will type of game to support Chad, I mean, to support SGA or not, was Chet going to be a viable number two or number three consistently through the playoffs? So if you're going to roll the dice as a team and say we're taking SGA out of this by sending to. Yeah, I would be. I would be concerned. Like you would have to show me that those guys could carry in a way that would produce a win. Like that's just what it is. That's their, that's kind of the Achilles heel and what I still need to be convinced of for, for okc. So yes, they're, they're. They're better defensively, quite frankly, even without that than, than Denver was. The zone. The zone. The zone is interesting because when you throw that, that zone and essentially the two top guys are in that double by assignment in a zone, the rotations are a lot clearer behind it. So when SGA gets off the ball, because we are kind of, you know, their assignments in a zone, like there's a little bit more clarity on who's going to make the run to that next pass, who's going to make the run to the pass after that. When you're in, man, it leaves a little bit more up to interpretation. Right. And like we got to be really assignment driven behind it. Do you know what I mean, Ryan? Like one person gets this wrong and the whole chain of events on a rotation and we're. And we've given up a wide open three. So that could be a little challenge if they decide to do that from Minnesota standpoint. But I do think if they can execute it, would I worry about OKC a little bit? Yeah, I'd be. I'd be worried.
- [32:11]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah. And then you can also look at what some of the regular season results were. Even if I'm thinking about some of those closing minutes, like the shooting splits for SGA against Minnesota this year are just absurd. I mean he's, he's lit them up. I mean, I know there's one big free throw attempt game in there, but the three point shooting, I mean this, the splits for him against Minnesota are alarming. And I don't know if that's just the right night. I don't know if it's him reading something. And I imagine Finch is Going to try a bunch of different things with him because it feels like at least. I don't want to say Denver exposed something, but it's. It was crazy to think of what they were willing to give up to make sure that they could just clog the top of it. If we can clog the top of it, like, we still think that's better than just letting SGA get downhill and putting our defenders in a spot where he's going to make all of the stuff because he's that talented. And if you're compromised on just any kind of defensive angle, he's going to get into you and he's going to get the free throw. So you're.
- [33:06]
Raja Bell
You're being nice. They basically said the rest of you all can't beat us. Yeah, that's what they said. They were like, yeah, we're not going to let him beat us. And we dare to wrestle you to do it.
- [33:17]
Ryan Marcillo
Look, it was almost right because I thought okc, whether it was missing every single three to start the fourth quarter in game six, Jalen Williams having the terrible game. But there were. There was stuff where, you know, it drives me kind of crazy when NBA teams can't. After a few possessions against his own, it's like, can you. You guys can't set a fucking screen and get somebody on just the catch in the middle. Like, how can you not. Like, I remember getting screamed at because you play youth basketball. You know, I'm not comparing. I'm not trying to compare the same two things, but you're putting your head down, so I think you're in agreement with me here. But, like, how can the NBA guys struggle with getting a fucking catch in the middle against these zones?
- [33:57]
Raja Bell
Dude, I don't know. I. What was this? Was this. When was it the Heat Celtics. That was two years ago now. Was that. That series was two years ago?
- [34:04]
Ryan Marcillo
Well, when it was the eight seed heat. Yeah, 23. Yeah.
- [34:08]
Raja Bell
And it was. It was very similar. And I was losing my shit. Like, not using Twitter or X in the right way because I just was venting. I was just tweeting out, why can't we hit the middle of that zone? Why won't they throw the damn ball in the middle of the zone? Why can't we hit a short. A short corner and flatten out This? I just couldn't imagine. But there's something to be said that you don't play against it a lot. Like, nobody practices it if you. If you don't weaponize it as a defense, as your. As Your own, you know, team, you're never going to see it in a practice situation. And you kind of take for granted that even pros like you tell them to do something and they should execute that. It doesn't always work like that. Right. Like, you, You. You have to be going live against it. But Ryan, I don't know, because even in game. What game was that, man? Was it game three? Maybe they had. They had figured out, like, they had figured out how to, like, screen. They were kind of screening the top of the zone and then slipping the screener and they were spraying it quick to the wing. And then you had the middle touch and they did it for like four minutes and it like, unlocked the zone and then they. They never came back to it.
- [35:13]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, that's what my favorite part of, like, watching zone stuff, because as soon as it breaks, then the coach is like, oh, no, the guy. Like, oh, my God, like, we have to stop doing this. And, you know, we're spending a lot of time talking about it. I don't think Minnesota's. I mean, who knows? I mean, they'll probably try a few different things, but I don't think of them as a team that's like, had. They just don't have to play zone because they have really good defenders and they have a back line guy.
- [35:42]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [35:43]
Ryan Marcillo
And, yeah, I just, I can't. I think it's a bigger thing. And I already know what you're going to say considering how you made your money, but it's starting to become too much of an equalizer, I think, between the bad team and the good team. And I think Golden State, Minnesota was like, a good example of that, too, at times where it's like, Minnesota should be running away with these games, and they did. In the second half, they took control. They were clearly the better basketball team. But it used to always be the thing when, like, the high school team sucked against the much better team. They're like, hey, we're going to play zone and we're just going to see if we can, like, muck this up long enough and then have a chance at the end. I don't know that I want that in the NBA playoffs.
- [36:23]
Raja Bell
I agree. I mean, that is general rule of thumb. If my team is not as talented as yours and. And I don't think, you know, and you're well coached. So, like, I can't coach my team into a. Into an equal kind of position. Oh, I'm sitting in that. Two, three. Oh, we're gonna, we're gonna sit here all night. And so I would agree with you, I don't think it's. While I like the physicality and by the nature of liking the physicality, you're gonna get some lower scoring games and some more grind you out type of games. I'm not here to watch teams break. You know, the code that is, that is some of these funky zones that they can design. I don't love that for NBA basketball.
- [36:59]
Ryan Marcillo
And who knows? I mean, who knows, Maybe they'll just say, hey, we're going to put our, our length at the top and, and screw this up here. But like, when I think of how much Denver played it, you know, when I think of how much Golden State was, was throwing it out there, I thought it was at least worth the conversation a little bit. Okay. On the Minnesota side of things, I can't believe we're getting this Randall in the playoffs. This is, this is a completely different dude. I mean, if you look at anything, it's not like there's a ton of playoff experience here, but I remember a few series in the past where I was like, okay, you know, you might just be the guy who gets 20 on teams that don't even win 40 games. I don't know that you're going to be somebody. I mean, he is just a rebirth of Julius Randall, which I think has to be part of the way if you're going to get that kind of guy out of him. Like, this is a completely different series than, I think just the understanding that OKC is, is far superior to everybody else.
- [37:56]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that's for, for them, I mean, you got you, you know what you're going to get out of and it becomes, you know, and this is a lot of the time it becomes about the others in the playoffs. It just becomes about what you're going to get consistently from someone else and who gets it more. It's a team A or team B. Julius Randle's been fantastic. I think you could, you know, you could make a case that Jalen Brunson's style of play is as great as it is. Like, it's, it doesn't really work for Julius Randle, you know what I mean? Like, just, you know, having the amount of live dribbles that he has in a game like Julius Randle needs touches and needs a little bit of a usage rate. It's just who he is, you know, and you got to figure out a way to put him with someone who's, who's, who's better because, like, he can't be Your number one. But at the same time can allow him the breath to have a little bit of a usage rate. And I think they've cracked that code. And he's confident and you know, it's. Again, this is a really crazy thing, but even professional athletes, you know, when they're not confident they'll look like one player and when they're riding some confidence and some self belief and they have someone that believes in them can look like, I don't mean a different player, I mean like a polar opposite kind of player. And I think there's a little bit of that going on. So yeah, he for me is the biggest question in the, in the series from Minnesota's perspective. What, which, which one will you get in this, in this series?
- [39:20]
Ryan Marcillo
Where is Ant on your favorite players to watch?
- [39:24]
Raja Bell
Yeah, he's, he's a top five player for me. Like, I like Ant. I like, I like everything about how explosive he is. I like how he, he plays the entire game. I think that he's grown exponentially in the. All right, I'm the focal point of an offense. Teams are going to do X, Y and Z to take me away. So let me learn how to kind of like control the game. I'll, you know, a la LeBron, a la Luca. Like those guys that have it and are just, you know, playmakers. Because you're not going to be able to score 50 because the defense says you're not going to be able to score 50. Tonight we're watching him grow up in real time. I still like him downhill a lot more than I think, you know, I like him. All right, this is, this is weird because I know analytically it doesn't make sense and he's become a much better player because he's kind of streamlined. The amount of mid ranges he gets to. I still think there's space there for mid, for Midi for him. Maybe not to the degree that it was there, but I still love him in the mid range space. But yeah, one of my favorite players.
- [40:27]
Ryan Marcillo
To watch when you're dealing with somebody like Ant, like, I wonder how much the others matter in how you prepare because, you know, I think Golden State had some stuff. So I think it was in the last game where it was like, okay, they're really gearing up to try to prevent him from taking over and he was really good out of it. You know, you could say, hey, you know, maybe I still have to get a hand in Conley's face or Jaden McDaniels is somebody I still have to like, think about. Obviously you're going to play off a Rudy, but he's never going to be that far away, so somebody's going to be near him anyway because you got to worry about the rebounding part of it. Like the Lakers, who just didn't have the personnel, and it's like, okay, well, now you're going to give him all these extra possessions. Are you helping off of the perimeter shooters because of Ant? Are you helping off of the perimeter shooters because of who they are?
- [41:20]
Raja Bell
Yeah, but because of Ant. Because of Ant, I think they go. They go hand in hand. But I. I would. I would always fire my first bullet. I mean, it's. It's. All right, let's go back. The question always becomes, hey, do you let the guy try to go for 50 and then cut everybody else off? That would supplement the scoring, right? So, like, you're going to have 50, but I'm not going to give anybody else more than six because I'm not going to allow you to feed them. And I don't think you can beat me like that. Or do you, you know, do you make him have to get off of it and make the others beat you? I'm always going to fire at the first, at the ladder. I'm going to devise this defense to try to, you know, mitigate what Ant is going to be able to do and see if those guys can win games. So I would. My defensive strategy wouldn't be. Because I don't believe necessarily that, like, they're poor shooters, but I have to take care of first things first, which is, you know, and.
- [42:14]
Ryan Marcillo
The Rudy part of this, you know, he's like 28 minutes a game here. I think it was very clear against the Lakers where there was a couple moments where, you know, I always think about him and how Finch is going to want to use him. And to this part, it hasn't really ever felt like it's an issue. Like, even against Luke, it's like, oh, man, his eyes get wide open and he's going to be hunting Rudy and he's going to get him into these switches. And then sometimes I think teams get so, like, switch happy because they want to attack this one specific thing. Then you're actually, like, doing the defense a bit of a favor because you're probably still going to hold up enough. Like, rarely are you going to hunt somebody, and it's like five buckets in a row. It just. The sport doesn't really necessarily happen that way. So I think the long version of. Of Rudy in That series was that he held up really well and what he provided you from a size advantage was worth it. But there was still, I think in one of games closing like Finch was like, you know, actually I went through it like he was, he was taking Rudy out in some of those spots. Golden State, same kind of thing. There's not really any bigs that you trust. Even though they were trying with Looney and Jackson, Davis, they brought back a little bit later. Is this a series where you go, wait, like you need Rudy maybe 35 minutes a night here because of the amount of size that Oklahoma City has? Or do we maybe get that revisit of the concern when Rudy gets hunted like somebody, like an SGA or somebody? Because. Because it hasn't been an issue really, other than some Finch decisions in certain spots, depending on the score late against the Lakers.
- [43:43]
Raja Bell
Yeah, I think it'll be time. I think it'll be time and situation driven just like it's been so far. I think SGA is uniquely kind of talented and skilled to be the, the, the. The exception to that rule that you're talking about that we hunt him five times and we're not going to score five times in a row like a hot sga, right? Can be, can be. I, if you give me five times on Rudy, I give you four buckets real quick, you know, but they're not. I agree with your point generally speaking, which is like, look, man, first of all, it's taking you out of rhythm of what you want to do offensively. If you're just going to hunt this guy and it's not providing enough to, to, to make it worth the while. I do think SGA could be the exception to that, but I think they're more organic minutes for Rudy. Right. Just because of the bigs, because of the, you know, because of the, the personnel that that OKC is going to have on the floor. I do think that you'll see situational stuff with him, though. It's got to be, you know, how do, how does OKC play down, down the stretch of a game in terms of their personnel? What is, you know, we're in a four point game with three minutes to go. Now that, that hunting, you know, doesn't always become about how many you. Whether you finish five in a row, as much as becomes about the, the, the quality of shot you're going to get after milking 20 seconds off of the shot clock, right? And then we're going to get pummeled on the offensive glass because Rudy's out Here guarding SGA in the mid range. So like some of those things they're going to have to figure out, you know, time, score, situation personnel that OKC has on the floor. But I do think they're more organic minutes in the series for him.
- [45:16]
Ryan Marcillo
Maybe it's because I just watched the Celtics series, but I think I'm starting to become anti hunting. You know, like when I look, I'll look at certain things, it's like, oh, hey, they're going to switch into Brunson and they're going to do. It's like, you know what, if you want to bring the ball up, map it out. Start your action at 16 seconds and then just try to hammer into the switch over and over and over again. When we're just going to send help to the guy that you're attacking anyway and now you're left like this thing that I felt like this game is almost like predicated on like, oh, they're going to keep doing this. They're going to keep doing this. I don't know. I think if I were again, I don't have to worry about being a coach anytime soon. I think I'd be like, you know, that that actually becomes really boring and it becomes easy to defend and then the help starts cheating and we're doing the same shit over and over again. And so even if we think we have the advantage with a guy in the ball against a big or a smaller guard, maybe the reward isn't there as much as we think it is.
- [46:15]
Raja Bell
Yeah, the more, the more you see it as a defender. I mean, you might get us as help defenders the first time, maybe two times you get the switch. But like if I see something three times in a row, I shouldn't be out there. If I don't have an answer for how I can help my guy. I always tell like my, my son Ty or any player that gets a switch, right? But he's the one that I coach the most. So I wind up talking basketball through his, through his lens and how I coach him. If you hunt it to get it, fine. Don't play around with it. Go get it. Like once you get the ball, get after him. Whether that's you get into the bucket or that's you collapsing defense quickly. And like I always, I use the analogy of like, like a fishing lure, right? Like when, when bass sees something swimming, like really slow and methodical and like they're like, yo, that's fake. I'm not, I'm not hitting that. But if something flashes like you're going to have an immediate knee jerk to it. So that's the way I like to attack those mismatches. Just get at him. Then you're going to get the collapse. And then you got to realize, like, yeah, I got the mismatch, but it's only to ignite the play. The finish could be me. If the help isn't sufficient and he doesn't do a great job, but the finish might be somewhere else. We just use the mismatch like that we hunted to. To, like, initiate it. And, like, I think. I don't think enough people follow those rules. So the Celtics hunt the mismatch to dance on the ball and then cast up a three. Like, that is not. That's not what we're hunting mismatches for. That's not. That's not the. That's not the essence of why you should do that. Right. And way too many. Way too many dudes do that. Luka does that a lot. Where Luka's really good is where he hunts that mismatch. He gets deep into the paint, two feet, and. And now he's collapsed and stuff, and the ball starts spraying around, and he can knock down that jumper every once in a while. So I think you got to get to it a little quicker. And I would agree with you. You show it to somebody too many times, they're. They're going to get a beat on that, I promise.
- [48:05]
Ryan Marcillo
I'll let you go after this, because I. I mentioned it with Bill on Sunday because I was at the combine, and, you know, a lot of the conversations that, you know, are just fun is just talking about the game, like, hey, where's the game? And some of this stuff. And, you know, a combo guard. And I'm repeating this for the audience that heard from Bill, so I'm sharing it with you. But, you know, the combo guard was kind of like a dirty thing for a little while. Like, the Aaron Brooks type.
- [48:29]
Raja Bell
Yeah.
- [48:30]
Ryan Marcillo
Where I'll never forget, you know, doing a show with Van Pelt, and it was like, man, Aaron Brooks, like, out of Oregon is gonna, like, get buckets in the NBA for a long time. Like, college has so many of these dudes that it's like, what happened to that guy? Like, oh, you didn't see that video of him in Turkey. Like, yeah, he's getting 38 a game, but it's just. It's not gonna work in the NBA. So, like, shout out to Aaron Brooks for finding a way to take that and go in. But it was like, that combo guard Thing was like you're kind of small, you're not a two, you're not a one, but you get buckets. Then it evolves into if you're not a combo guard as our point guard, if you're a point guard that can't score, that can't pull up from three, but also like that's, that's worse than, you know, you can't have a guy who's like a non shooter initiating all this stuff. And I do wonder if we're at a place right now where we kind of miss the point guard mindset and of the foreclosers right between Ant sga Brunson and Halliburton. Halliburton has the mindset that reminds me of what we have. But I couldn't stop thinking about Chris Paul or Jason Kidd or Gary Payton and some of these possessions late in the game where it's like, you know what they wouldn't do? They may not get you the bucket, but they would not have the same approach. They would not let themselves get stuck into these ruts that some of these teams are like, hey, this is the shit that we did all regular season and we're getting this many a hundred points or this many points per 100 possessions. Like all the math tells us that this is the right way to do it. I feel like there's an element of that that is missed because we, once we decided the point guard couldn't be as like he had to also be a scorer that we're forgetting about the point guard part of it.
- [50:11]
Raja Bell
Yeah, that's really, that's really interesting. I mean that's, that's. Yeah, there's. Yeah, I could, I could, I could see where you're coming from with that. And, and again like my, look, my guy is a ninth grader who would fall into kind of combo guard status. And, and the conversations with him are, are, are like, look, and this is the way I, I think it should work, right? Because a, a, a, a true point guard, like a conductor, right? A setup man, an organizer. He's a quarterback, right? Like he's. What you're saying is like we're at the line of scrimmage and we're in this two minute drill, man. We've got to make sure all everybody's where they're supposed to be. Like I can't hike this ball. I can't start running this play before, you know, before we have the floor space the right way and guys are where they're supposed to be. That's a That's a learned skill set. Like, that's not something that you just roll out and say, hey, you're playing point today because you have a combo guard skill set and I expect you to do all of that shit. Like, it's not really being taught that way at the youth level. It's being taught in terms of skill level scoring. Pick and roll reads for sure, but not like the mental side of like playing pg, you know, and so, you know, what, what, what, Can I interrupt you there though?
- [51:22]
Ryan Marcillo
Like, the pick and roll stuff, when it's like, hey, it's this or it's this or it's this, that's not really being a point guard. It's predetermined. And it reminds me, which you'll understand really well because of your, your current situation with the boys is like, I may know what the progressions are as a quarterback, but if I can't adjust when the progressions aren't there, then I'm not really playing quarterback. I'm just following a set of predetermined options, which is what I see with a lot of the pick and roll stuff. It's like, okay, well, here's the read, here's the read. Here's the read. It's like, okay, but where, where's the part where I see something and have instincts that tell me this is actually the better option than all the things that you told me are my only options to go off of a list?
- [52:08]
Raja Bell
Totally. So to continue the analogy, what we're saying is like, look, you gave me the play. I know the progressions in that play. But my pre snap look is not good for this fucking play. I got to get us into something different because that's not going to work. I know it, you know, it's sitting over there on the bench, but you're not out here in real time. So my job becomes to organize. Yo, yo, check, check, check, check. We're. We're doing that and not too many PGs are being taught how to play in that space, right? They are this combo. They have the skill set. To your point, the predetermined skill's insane, right? It's insanity. It's insane. No, it's insane. But like, you know, it's really cool for me because I get to go out and I'm at the UA circuits and I'm at these pangos camps and stuff like that. And every now and again I'll see a dude who is like just a, a real general, and you're like, yo, that's pretty Cool to watch, man. Like, he might have 12 or 15. Shit, he might have eight. But his team's always winning. They're always organized. He's getting it where it's supposed to go. And like, I'm a throwback guy, too. I'm a traditionalist. I love that. So as I speak to my boy, it's like, look, man, his skill set, I think, is more natural kind of combo because he likes to score. He's got a little gifts in that realm. But where I always tell him his bread is butter and he just doesn't know it yet is he really can organize like, and quarterback, right? And like, have fun with playing it like this right now in high school, dude. Like, and early in high school. But, like, you're going to become a conductor, you're going to be able to run a team because that's the, that's the priority. Like, scoring is scoring. Like, every, every. Look, you're good enough, you're going to score buckets. But the mental, the mental capacity to, like, run a team, run an offense, time, score, get us in and out of things that are good. Knowing when Ryan needs a touch because he's been asleep over there and now he's not defending. Like, all of those things are kind of a lost art. And it's a really interesting thought because, you know, I hadn't really put two to two together in terms of, like, why, you know, that's a dying breed. But it, it is. Everyone's a combo. Like, scoring is consuming a lot of that, a lot of that, like, instruction for these young players. The, the, the, you know, the skills that it takes to score a ball versus the skills that it would take to run a team.
- [54:19]
Ryan Marcillo
People are going to watch Jason Kidd videos 50 years from now and be like, what. How did. Like, what, Was there more of them? Is there anybody? And there's, there's, look, there's incredible point cards, but I don't know, like, to me, you have to be born. There has to be something that happens in the way that the DNA is put together for you to see the game. And look, there's a lot of great point guards, but there was just something about Kid. Man, there's something about Jason Kidd that was just off the charts. Damn, I love basketball. That was a lot of fun. Roger Bell, our guy, the real ones. Check him out with Logan Murdoch again Tuesdays and Fridays. They'll be dropping another episode here shortly. Enjoy the conference finals and thanks for the time.
- [55:03]
Raja Bell
Yeah, man, thanks for having me.
- [55:07]
Ryan Marcillo
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Great teams need great coaches. And when it comes to insurance, your State Farm agent is there to help you find the right coverage for your home, car and more. They're local and ready to assist when life hits you with a full court press. Get a game plan that helps you fit your life. And talk to a State Farm agent today. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. State Farm coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Man down. Man down. Life Advice rrgmail.com. that's the email. It's just me and Kyle hanging out today. Morgan's going to be okay, but he's not going to be with the show today, so just. Just me and my bud. What's up?
- [56:11]
Kyle
Not too much. Not too much.
- [56:12]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah.
- [56:14]
Kyle
Did a debt consolidation though, recently. Feels pretty good about that. Got a better rate. Always hunting for a good rate. So, yeah, I don't know. Feel kind of like a new man today.
- [56:27]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, There is something to be said about doing stuff. Yeah, you know, it gets contagious. Like when I have a to do list. Sometimes I'll get into this rhythm where Sunday nights I'll write out the to do list and then Monday and it's like that first thing you have to do always feels like it's hard. Unless it's like a sort of the.
- [56:46]
Kyle
Gateway to the rest of the list.
- [56:47]
Ryan Marcillo
You could say, really, really it is. And then you get a couple things done and you're like, what else can I get done? Well, that thing that I was just probably just going to ignore, let's call and figure that out.
- [57:00]
Kyle
Dude, you're so right. The first thing on the list was the debt consolidation. You know what I mean? Get that big weight off my chest. Then I went out and bought a brand new Swiffer power mop. Did all the floors. I was using a wet jet. Now I'm a power mop guy. I mean, what's next? Get in shape? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
- [57:20]
Ryan Marcillo
What's Blade doing right now? Is he free this afternoon? When you decide to start lifting and getting in shape, you're going to be a monster.
- [57:30]
Kyle
Oh, shucks.
- [57:32]
Ryan Marcillo
No, I'm serious. Big frame, big frame, like that. Speaking of lifting, it relates kind of to what we're talking about here. These aren't even emails. These are all free. But I was thinking about like the psychology of when you think you're finished in just anything really. But if we keep it specifically to lifting. So every now and then I'll do this 225 thing, right? I'll see how many times I can bench 225. And it just kind of keeps me in check. And like, some days it's just not the day, and you don't get the number that you're used to or excited about, and you're kind of disappointed. But what I'll notice is if I just pick a number and then I work my way down, right? So if I go, like, all right, I don't know what I have today. So I'll say, like, 18 reps, right? 18, 17, 16. That when I get to two or one, my body and my mind have decided that I'm almost done.
- [58:37]
Kyle
Okay.
- [58:37]
Ryan Marcillo
And so two is a struggle. And then one is like, okay. And I haven't used a spotter because I always feel like it's kind of stupid sometimes, but it'll be like, all right, I have to get this off of me. And then it's just like, you know those videos you see of people with having superpowers to protect a loved one if, like, a fence falls down or something? Okay, Right. But if you just arbitrarily, like, don't use any number, then you're not giving your mind a heads up as to when it is clock watching. Yeah, yeah. So I think there's a parallel in there for you.
- [59:15]
Kyle
So don't count.
- [59:17]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, yeah, Just go.
- [59:19]
Kyle
So that's sort of what I'm doing with my golf game right now.
- [59:22]
Ryan Marcillo
Okay, so let's see. What are you talking about?
- [59:24]
Kyle
I'm so bad. I'm not counting. That's all. That's all.
- [59:28]
Ryan Marcillo
Golf is a little tougher, though, because you kind of have to count just to get an idea and put it. Because it's really easy to go, well, I think I had this. And then the score is always better than what it actually is when you start doing that kind of stuff. All right, so one to grow on there to get started.
- [59:42]
Kyle
Don't limit yourself. There you go.
- [59:45]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, but there's something like. There's. There's a parallel there that if. If that happens, think of all the other things that are happening in your life when you think, this is all I'm going to be able to do. And then you accept that that's the maximum that you can do because your mind has already made some sort of agreement with your body. Again, on the physical side of it, granted, that doesn't apply to other things, but I do think that there's something there because it just. How often I will go, all right, I'm going to count down from 12. I'm going to count down from 10. I'm going to count down From 8. And that whatever that one rep is, it's always like the body and mind have made some sort of, like, commitment to each other that they're like, this is over. This is totally over. And so when I started just randomly being like, okay, same way, only got eight. Let me just count down from nine. Guess what happens? I get nine. And two has replaced the one. And two is a way better rep. But that one is always just like.
- [60:41]
Kyle
Good, we're done with this crazy stuff life advicey thing. That's the most life advice you start we've had in a while. So I feel good about the rest of this.
- [60:50]
Ryan Marcillo
Not sure there's a book in there. Probably pretty short, but. Bathroom book. All right. Coke Zero issues with Kyle. Oh, no. Stats. This is just a response. I like that. If you're just responding, hey, I want to get in the game with you guys. Yeah, we know we don't kind of like TJ McConnell, but more. More range. The dude who is digging in on Coke Zero being Coke is out of his mind. There's no debate here. I'd imagine almost everybody agrees with you on that. That's, I think, what we said. But Kyle is also wrong. Coke Zero is a fantastic drink. Probably the best zero anything I've ever had. I actually buy it more than regular Coke and especially Diet Coke. Any respectable pop drinker who also looks for zero cal options would agree.
- [61:38]
Kyle
Over dc, huh? Coke Zero over dc.
- [61:40]
Ryan Marcillo
That's going to start a war.
- [61:42]
Kyle
Yeah, I don't know. I think DC's got its own, like, alternate name. There's no. There's no alternate Coke Zero name. Coke Z cz. No, it doesn't. Doesn't work. I think. I think Diet Cokes earned that spot. So, you know, maybe. Maybe we'll look back five years from now and it'll be different. But I think as of right now, Diet Coke has that spot.
- [62:04]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, I don't. I don't even want to get into that world. All right, so if you're a Diet Coke person, you know, but we're. We're just going to put that one to bed. We're going to keep harmony going here. Okay. We sent the picture of this disastrous taco bar situation of Kyle. So he's in on it. All the names have been changed. No gym stats, Player comp. Poor man's Michael Oluwa Candy. As if a rich man's Olawa candy is worth Noting well, you know, pretty big guy, good touch. Here's my dilemma. My son Tom recently graduated from a fairly well known college west of the Mississippi. His squad includes a mix of male and female friends. One friend, Tracy, told Tom that her mom, Betty oh was going to organize a grad party and wanted our cell number to Texas about the details. So one of the friends of the sun said, hey, my mom's got it all right. We never heard anything until three days before the graduation when we were asked to provide a hundred dollars via Venmo for the food, which was going to be a taco bar made by her housekeeper who had just started a side business. We were also told that it was BYOB and to bring a dessert, but he said they would pay $200 and she had more guests coming. Mind you, we are five people total. The other squad member, a party of three parents and a graduate, was asked for $100 as well. Thus you are looking at a $400 bill for a taco bar. Total number of people there was 25, plus three, plus eight from the families, plus perhaps four other friends. I attached a picture of the taco bar. To say this was underwhelming would be a compliment. A bag of chips, store bought tortillas that were cold. Only one salsa that was way too spicy for all there, unseasoned chicken and what appeared to be meat of some sort. And a small cup of guacamole that was put out after everyone had already ate.
- [63:57]
Kyle
Looks dry. I'll just say the food looks dry.
- [64:01]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah. So maybe we zero on for the picture as well as we can in a descriptive vein. Look, this looks bad. Really bad.
- [64:11]
Kyle
The fyre fest of graduation meals, if you will.
- [64:15]
Ryan Marcillo
This actually would have been the nicest thing served at Fire Fest.
- [64:17]
Kyle
Yeah, you're right.
- [64:20]
Ryan Marcillo
So look, they've got the rice. The chicken looks fairly unseasoned. That salsa looks like lava. One bag of chips almost makes it worse. Like the one bag of chips. You would have been better just not putting any chips out there. There's a ground beef thing, so we're looking at kind of the, the tin foil catering trays of this, the, the black beans. I mean, they never look good even when they're really.
- [64:46]
Kyle
What are you gonna do?
- [64:48]
Ryan Marcillo
I do like the lime radish.
- [64:53]
Kyle
I'm not seeing any cheese, by the way. Seeing no cheese.
- [64:56]
Ryan Marcillo
No cheese, man. College kids, college kids love cheese. Adults love cheese. So the rice again, we're looking at five bins here. Ground beef, pretty bland. Chicken, beans. The rice, the, the hue of the rice looks. Looks good. And I do appreciate the effort in this, so. But this isn't really a fixings bar.
- [65:19]
Kyle
There's, like, premium paper plates, too. I just want to know. Premium.
- [65:22]
Ryan Marcillo
Okay. Yep. Yep. But, you know, the radish thing doesn't make a ton of sense because that if it. I mean, I don't know where radishes are right now with everybody. Feels like nobody talks about radishes anymore, but have you ever. Was the last time you bit into a radish? Like, they're not. That's not really. Yeah, yeah. It's not like a taco move. And they're not diced up or anything. They're like pretty thick slices of radish and just. That would rip through the tortilla, like. Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't want to make any sort of tornado thing now because of what's going on, so let's not. Let's not talk about natural disasters. So we got diced white onions that look huge, too. Like, I don't know about her knife skills. And the cilantro is not diced at all. So, I mean, there's the limes. Thanks. But she cut them wrong, too, by the way. This is bad. It's really bad. Will we agree?
- [66:19]
Kyle
Yes. Agreed. Agreed.
- [66:22]
Ryan Marcillo
Okay.
- [66:23]
Kyle
But I know there's more, and he's got a question, and I don't know if I agree.
- [66:27]
Ryan Marcillo
My dilemma. I was immediately pissed to be asked for $100 for the tacos no less than three days before the event. I could go to Chipotle and get more food for eight to $12 a person. I made the payment because Tom Squad is really important to him, and they have forged likely lifelong friendships, and my wife told me so. Or two. We never received acknowledgment or thank you for the payment. All right, now you're just, like, trying to find more reasons to be pissed off. I want to request a 50 refund as the food was the worst Mexican food I've had in a long while. My wife said not to do this. This is likely to get back to Tom, and she doesn't want him to have to deal with this and disturb the Squad vibe as he is around for another one and a half months as he keeps up the search for a job and his lease expires at the end of July. While I want to go off in a text, my thought is to send a Venmo money request that just reads taco bar graduation refund, please. My wife says that Betty probably thinks this Is a great party and there are no problems. Of course, I disagree, as there were no places to sit. Which. Man, this thing gets worse. It was served on a small coffee table, which, by the way, in the picture, it shows there's not a lot of square footage on this table that was set out as a some sort of, like, catering thing.
- [67:33]
Kyle
Food is, like, below the knee. This is pretty close to the ground.
- [67:38]
Ryan Marcillo
This feels like a freshman year parents weekend thing. The kids would do, thinking we nailed this, and a senior with an apartment would. Would go, we have to do better than this. So I'm worried about. I'm worried about. What are the fake names here again?
- [67:54]
Kyle
Tom. I know Tom's one of them. Tracy.
- [67:56]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, but Tracy and then her mom, Betty. I'm worried about Betty's housekeeper's, like, future earning potential with this side business. My wife says that Betty thinks this is a great party. No problems. Okay. Small coffee table. We said that already. We had to bring a dessert and our own alcohol. If I had $400 to spend, it would have been a far small superior to that slop in the alcohol and all the alcohol you could want. Your thoughts are appreciated. Signed, disgruntled taco bar graduation participant.
- [68:23]
Kyle
Kyle, I think you've got. You certainly have a reason to feel gross about this. I think what's clear is that Betty. This may be the first party she ever threw. She doesn't know what things cost. You know what I mean? I don't know if her daughter.
- [68:39]
Ryan Marcillo
You might have been a soft opening, right?
- [68:41]
Kyle
This was the friends and family, and maybe they welcome feedback. But I think this could have been one of those situations where Betty's daughter, in classic kid fashion, the night before the project's due, lets you know you need some construction paper and poster board. And maybe she just thought she had to do this. So she clearly doesn't know the right price to charge people for parties. I don't think she's done it before, and if she has, she's certainly switched up the food vendors. But I don't think. I mean, think of. Put about. Put it this way. When you think about your guy, Tom, your grad Tom, Think about how much money you've just thrown into the furnace to get this kid through. How many times he's hit you up on, like, a Saturday night with, like, you know, some story about how he needs money. I'm sure you've. You've poured hundreds and thousands of dollars just outside of tuition and whatever you're paying to have him live in that apartment. Think about all the shit you've shoveled into this venture, and this is the end of it. And you. And you're thinking about, like, doing this. Come on, it's a. You know, some people think that it's a scam with everything you have to pay for in college. Like, this is $100 for a bad taco party. This is the end of it. You could leave on a good note. I mean, you're probably so happy that he's graduated and you can just exhale and not worry about what his grades are anymore. Think about all the good feelings you have. And this thing is like shooting up the rankings in your feelings right now. I think you just think about just charges to the game. Charge it to the game. This is the last shitty thing you have to pay for in college. And probably to get him and all of the shit moved in a storage unit. But, yeah, just trick yourself into thinking this is like we said, with the numbers you're counting down from. Instead of counting down from nine, we're counting down from 11. So you get that that second to last rep is awesome. So there you go. I think. I think you just have to trick your brain into thinking this is one last shitty thing you have to pay for to get your kid through school. This would suck. This would suck if this is a thing that they're talking about while they're hanging out in the last month. You know what I mean? It doesn't sound like Betty is very reasonable. And she probably would think this is coming out of left field. And I imagine this trickles down to the kids. And it's the one thing you and your wife don't want.
- [70:45]
Ryan Marcillo
So, yeah, that's what you don't want to have happen is have. Like, there's probably all these dynamics with your son and his squad that you clearly wouldn't know anything about. And I'm not even meaning it in any kind of definition, nefarious way. It's just you don't know what the dynamic is at all. And I know back to college, like, it's just an odd thing when you realize, like, a college roommate, who's your guy? And then his parents show up and one of them sucks. You know, you're just like, man. Like, I remember one guy, his dad was just, like, mean. Like, not in an intimidating, like, way either. No, Right. It wasn't like he was a logger.
- [71:23]
Kyle
Yeah, that guy's been through some. Makes sense.
- [71:25]
Ryan Marcillo
No, no. This guy had seen very little I believed. And he was just kind of mean to all of us. And we were kind of like, how. How is the son so nice and the dad? Like, it was again, you're right. It wasn't funny.
- [71:43]
Raja Bell
Mean.
- [71:43]
Ryan Marcillo
It wasn't earned. Mean. It was just. It was like he walked in the door and was like, all of you guys suck. It's like, it's one thing if, like, his dad was David Lee Roth. What's the matter? Got school tomorrow. I can't stop watching that Bill hater video. I think I love Bill Hader more and more every single week, but I think you got to lay out. Or you ask Tom. You ask your son. You're like, hey, because I know you're right. This thing sucks. This party's bad. The picture does do it justice. And we're on your side. And it isn't about the 100 bucks and we shouldn't always default to the charge it to the game thing. But your financial. It's not even your financial recovery here. You're really more motivated. You need to let them know how bad this part is.
- [72:38]
Kyle
That's what it is. That's exactly what it is.
- [72:41]
Ryan Marcillo
But beware, we're on your side. You're right. But a bunch of 21 year olds, 22 year olds may process entirely differently. And if you're causing any kind of friction in the squad because you want to have your moment, is that really worth it?
- [73:02]
Kyle
Dude, this is such a great forever joke, too. The next time Tom. Next time Tom wants to get you to go somewhere, you're going to be like, oh, is it going to be like the Taco party of 20, 25? Should I, like, should I not eat the night before like this? You have this forever. You have this forever. You love razzing your son that my dad loves, you know, hitting me with some jabs every once in a while. So this is one. This is a hundred bucks, and you have this forever. You just bought. You bought a fun, like, tension breaking joke for years down the line. You guys will remember this forever. And, you know, it's not as bad as it feels, but I think you're right. The. The whole thing is you want Betty to know just how terrible of a party she put on, right down to the, you know, three days before Venmo request.
- [73:45]
Ryan Marcillo
So, yeah, I think that's it. Okay, see, this is another money one. I don't know that I want to do that one. Okay, this is always. This is always a tough one here. Should I endorse a stranger for a job opening? Gentlemen, long time. First time. 611 85. No real gym stats to speak of NBA comp Klay Thompson for no other reason I can shoot. My friends say I look like him. Apologies for the long email. Let's jump in. I'm finishing up my training in cardiothoracic surgery. There we go. Sorry for the stall on that word. I say that not as some type of brag or anything, but merely to demonstrate that my field is pretty small. It can be very difficult to break into. I received an email recently from a person I work in close physical proximity to for a couple years but never really spoke. To clarify, I did a couple years of research during my residency and had a desk in a room with three other desks, one in each corner of a rectangular room. This person worked at the desk to those guys.
- [74:44]
Kyle
Yeah, three other desks.
- [74:45]
Ryan Marcillo
These guys didn't have a taco party. This person worked at a desk diagonally across the room from me with our backs to each other. We were on completely different projects with different supervisors. We were just physically near each other. It's not an exaggeration to say we spoke maybe three sentences to each other in two years. I don't even know his name. Fast forward to last week and he somehow tracked me down at my new institution using my new email address to ask me about putting in a good word for him to the boss to hopefully get one of the open first year resident spots here. I had to run his name through the old Google machine to try to figure out who this person was or if it was just a junk spam email. It turns out he's had a really tough road through life, including immigration and visa issues that were no fault of his own. He's requesting that I speak to the program director, basically hiring manager, to put in a good word for him regarding a spot that opened up unexpectedly. My question is, do I have to? On one hand I don't know this guy at all and can't possibly go to bad for a stranger. If he gets hired and he sucks, it's a direct reflection on me and damages my credibility. Not to mention that this is one of those fields where if you suck you can actually be a danger to people. Also, I'd be lying to my boss. On the other hand, I feel like a real dick, either ignoring his email or telling him I can't. It sounds like his road through life has been much more difficult than most, most of which would seem circumstantial. I want to help him out if I can, but how do you personally vouch for a stranger you work near, but not with for a couple years and haven't seen in four to five years. I'm pretty strict on this one. I think when I was younger, I was a little looser with it because you know how hard it is in the desirable fields. But I've got burned so many times in the beginning, and even people I knew a little bit, you know, you're like. Because it's. Some people are just really loose with it. Hey, do you know this person? You have a contact here? Okay, boom, done. Yeah, voucher me. Like, yeah, I know this person. Then you're talking them up, and then you're younger.
- [76:35]
Kyle
It seems cool, like, to be able to, like you've done something. You could pull something like that off.
- [76:39]
Ryan Marcillo
Like, yeah, right.
- [76:40]
Kyle
You feel good for yourself. You're like, yeah, I got some fucking sway around here. Yeah, like, Todd's here. He wouldn't be here without me. Yeah, I like, I like the idea of it.
- [76:50]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah. There was a time where, not that it's the same, but you know, towards, I don't know, 10 plus years at ESPN. Like every now and then somebody would come by and like, people said, you're a good person to talk to about like, some of, some of these contract things and like, how this stuff all works. I was like, yeah, I don't. I don't know. I could tell you. I could tell you some stories, but sure. But yeah, I guess there was a moment where I. When I realized it was happening a few times, I was kind of like, oh, I guess this is a compliment or something. But it's. It does not necessarily relating to my own power and influence for myself. So it was, it was kind of a contradiction on the whole thing. Like, yeah, I have this place absolutely wired, except for the parts that have to do with me, but, yeah, these people eating out of the palm of my hand. I. It is something that I did. And then ultimately I started realizing, like, unless I absolutely know this person. You know, Alexa, Rudy is a perfect example. When he was kind of in between some stuff after the NBA radio thing, you know, was handled really poorly. It was, it was like, okay, well, this. I know exactly who he is and I was with him all the time. So, like, it's not saying, like, everybody has to be at a ceruti level for everybody, but I think it gets a little dangerous. And you're right. When you're younger, there's a part of you that wants to be able to pull something off like this. I think that's so perfectly said and a great Observation from you. But when we're talking about this kind of field and you do not know this person at all, and it's a very small world, I don't know that you can take this kind of risk. I mean, this isn't like saying. I mean, some of the references here are going to be a little outdated. But think of the jobs where you're like, yeah, I can. Whatever. Like, it's up to you to kind of get it done. Like, you get somebody a bartending gig, you know, and then they're like, hey, this guy's slow on Fridays. Just, you know, whatever, shrug. But if you're in the medical field, this specific field, and you're just going, yeah, this guy's good. It's actually kind of ridiculous. I think, that he even asked you. But that's also kind of the way the world works, is like, any kind of.
- [79:00]
Kyle
When you're looking for a job, any.
- [79:02]
Ryan Marcillo
Kind of contact, any single person, you could be like, oh, I know this guy and I was with him. But, I mean, it sounds like you guys were almost in detention together for two years more so than it was anything that you work together. So, I don't know. Look, if you're feeling somewhat guilty about it, is there any way that you can talk to people that do know him? But then you're like, what are you doing? Hey, I got a free afternoon. So now I'm going to research this guy's background to see whether or not a guy who I do not know is deserving of a recommendation that I still don't feel really good about. So I know it's a tough email to go, hey, dude, I don't really know you. I can't do that. But considering what's on the line, I don't know that there's any other option.
- [79:41]
Kyle
Is the, like. I don't know is apathetic. The word is like is the kind of shrug conversation with the hiring manager to be like, I met him, he was a nice guy. He was quiet. He asked. He asked me to talk to you. You know, he didn't eat any stinky food. Like, just whatever. In whatever info you have over those two years. Be like, he seemed, you know, seemed like a. It wasn't bad for morale. Like, is that worse than no reference at all in this? I don't know. Like, would that be okay for you to feel like you didn't say anything bad or you didn't lie to try to get this guy in, but you're just like, I do know this man. He asked me to talk to you.
- [80:21]
Ryan Marcillo
He's real.
- [80:21]
Kyle
He's real. And as far as I could tell, he was never late or something. Like, I don't know. I. I just. I wonder if, like, that's the way that your conscience is okay, on both sides of the fence here. You're not screwing this guy over, and you're not screwing over the poor guy who's going under the knife by him because you don't know any. Anything. So I. Maybe that. Maybe that's okay, or may. Or maybe that's just, like. Why would you give a totally bland reference about somebody like, is that. Are you stealing their fate that way, too? I don't know. I would just say that on our point before, when it feels good to get your buddies jobs, my. My friend became the kitchen manager of the. At the melting pot, and then ultimately the GM hired all of his friends and then had to fire all of us over the next, like, two years. And so, you know, there was a. There, like, it was. It was two years of being like, man, that guy. That guy just hooked us all up. And then. Then he had to, like, one by one, fire all of us. We're still friends to this day, but, you know, it's not all good just to get your buddy's jobs. Like, his brother was fresh out, and he was like. He was out of jail for, like, two weeks. And it's like, oh, hey, welcome to. To the kitchen. It's like, holy.
- [81:32]
Ryan Marcillo
So I know I had a friend who was a showrunner and, you know, somebody I was friends with. So it wasn't like some random person, but somebody that I had known for a while. He had said something about, like, needing this role cast for a location, and I was like, oh, I. I know someone. And he was like, have her come in and read and try out for it. So I thought it was, like, kind of like a huge favor. I was like, yeah, all right, no problem. I'll. I'll set it up. I'll link you two up. And then a couple days went by, and I was like, oh, no, I haven't heard anything. And then he was like, dude, are you serious? And I was like, yeah, all right. You know, my bad.
- [82:20]
Kyle
Didn't know which direction we were going on this.
- [82:22]
Ryan Marcillo
Yeah, I. You know, so I guess it wasn't, you know, the. It may have been somebody wasn't right for the part. Let's just say it that way. But I think you nailed something also. Kyle, you're on fire today. If you want to, like, technically Be in the clear and not feel like you're being addicted to this guy. Do exactly what you said. Go to the director. Go to whoever the person is that's in charge of this thing and say, hey, look, this guy sat in a room. I never talked to him. He wants me to put in a good word for him. I don't feel necessarily comfortable doing that because I don't know him. Good or bad. He might be great. I have no idea. But I do know him. And there you go. And so then when he says to.
- [83:04]
Kyle
You, I can vouch for his whereabouts in 20, 20, 21, I can tell.
- [83:08]
Ryan Marcillo
You, you need a height and a weight. I'm gonna get you close hair color. Yeah, I could do that, right? If you robbed a convenience store, I'm gonna get you a good description. But that way, you know when the guy's like, hey, did you ever say anything to that guy? Be like, sure did. Sure did. And you're in the clear. All right? Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Jonathan. Fr get better Waron. He'll be fine. And then, you know, the countdown to Ceruti is going to be who knows? Who knows what's going to be going on? We're going to have Summer League MVPs. That'll do for the pod. You can check us out on the Spotify app as a video pod and also our YouTube page. Ryan was still a podcast runner. Spotify.
- [83:43]
Raja Bell
They were gonna name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it. So they named me Michael Jared.
- [84:01]
Ryan Marcillo
Foreign must be 21 and older. Present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelp linema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.