← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Kawhi’s Reminder Game and Cade’s Arrival. Plus, NFL Draft Best- and Worst-Case Scenarios With Danny Kelly and Danny Heifetz.
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
You're listening to the Ryan Marcillo podcast, presented by FanDuel. America's number one sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA because not only does FanDuel have all of your favorite player props, but now you can even check out stats and recent performance trends right in the app before you make your picks. Just download the FanDuel sportsbook app today to get in on the action. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 + and present in select states. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com on today's episode of the podcast. I love that the playoffs are here. Tales from the couch, Playoff style. All those hours. Basketball's real. All those hours. Hours. Sorry I scored so early. Apologize to the kids in the car and the parents, but let's get into it. Kawhi's huge night. Jokic's bad night. Some thoughts on that. What's happening defensively against Jokic? Also Cade Cunningham, a rival game. Do I get a little carried away in the open? Perhaps, but I don't think I do. And then Jalen Brunson took a lot of shots. Were they all good ones? We're going to talk NFL draft a couple days away. It is real. There's clocks on televisions right now. Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, part of our draft coverage. They have a podcast and we'll go through a bunch of exercises talking about the first round and life advice. We start Tuesday with a little playoff tales from the Couch. The Clippers even up the series in Denver one apiece. Kawhi Leonard responding the way he always has historically 39 points, 15 and 19. He started the game 12, 13. It was just stupid. It was just a stupid, crazy. Kawhi can get to wherever he wants to get. He's going to pull up, he's going to hit the shots over the top of you. Incredibly efficient and a great response after the seven turnovers in Game 1, including the one turnover you just never expect, like Jamal Murray's going to slap the ball away from you and it's going to be a turnover. So at 103, 102, just classic Kawhi. Just how smart he is with everything. Not that, you know, this makes him the most brilliant basketball player of all time, but just really simple things. He's got it at the top. He sees Westbrook sliding over to his left. He figures anything to that side, I'm going to be doubled. He's got Harden, the right corner. He knows the defender can't help off of Harden, so he figures out like, look, let me just get away. Let me get away from where the traffic will be and if I can get to my spot, pull up and hit the shot. And he does so. 105, 102. At 55 seconds left, though, sealing the. Oh, that was when he hit the shot at 55 seconds. A little later on, Denver just scrambling. Another offensive possession where it looks like a mess. Don't worry, I'll get to Jokic and his night here. And Jokic throws the ball up in the air. It's his seventh turnover and guess who steals it. It's Kawhi. Who? Kawhi, because of Denver. One, it was either Christian Brown and Westbrook just watching and then losing sight of, like, hey, you got to still kind of play to get into some space or give Jokic some kind of passing lane. And look, I'm not blaming them for the past because the pass was terrible, but Kawhi was basically able to cover two guys and read the pass, which he had done earlier in a different play where Jokic, facing a double team on one of his other turnovers, was looking for Aaron Gordon in the left corner. And Kawhi just read it perfectly. So part of its instincts, part of its bad spacing, but ultimately it's the passage Jokic cannot make. Before I get back to Kawhi here, I think there's at least some time should be spent on what's happening to Jokic. Seven turnovers. Five of them were awful. Looked at him again this morning. Four were against double teams. I mean, just strange stuff like the bots, and one where he just threw it to nobody, way over his head. He had another play too, where the shot clock. He thought the shot clock was about to expire and then he just threw it up. He also is missing free throws. I don't know what's going on. He had two huge free throw misses, like back to back free throws, like at the line. You never think he's going to miss two. He missed two in a huge spot in game one. That is forgotten because they win. But right now he's 10 to 16 from the free throw line in this series. So he took a bunch of shots in game one. He only took 16 last night. His second two point attempt in the game was in the third quarter. That was also when he was taking his first free throws. So the Double team. Part of this, and I'm wondering, you know, that's always the fear with Jokic is, well, if you double him and you keep doubling them, he's just going to read it and then he's going to pick your. Pick you apart. So you're really. I mean, I think teams kind of argue about how they want to go about this and try to show them different things, but what the Clippers are doing is they're doubling anything that's in the paint and they're doubling him on his first move, not on the catch. And he got stripped by Kawhi in the paint in the first half. You can tell that he's getting frustrated with it. I don't know if it also becomes a Clippers thing where, hey, if Westbrook hits a couple threes like he did last night, we're okay with that. I know what Aaron Gordon's numbers are in the corner, we're okay with that. And Chris Dunn's able to harass Jamal Murray enough that it slows them down. Like they're not just going to be able to walk into their two man game, even though they're still going to run that a million times as Jokic and Murray, because that's just been the foundation of who they are on offense for such a long time. Like, it's still going to work sometimes. But we're not just going to let you ease right into this all the time. And then if Jokic stalls and makes some kind of move or it's dribble now we're just going to help off any of these shooters. But even with all of that said, Jokic can't have the Turner turnovers that he had last night. I mean, they were just, it's just shocking. And I don't, I don't know where the frustration is coming from him. And again, maybe a comfort level as the series continues. The Clippers is like, we can, we can start helping off even more on some of this stuff or if Jokic is going to have some game where he starts to realize what you're doing and then being more prepared, but he needs to be more prepared to take more shots. He can't take 16 shots in the playoff game, not with this group that's around him. And he also needs to stop passing up the open threes. I know he's done it his whole career. We all wish he took more threes. There's that look where he gets it. But this is not December against Portland, man. Like, it has to be a moment where when you have that space and you've shot it as well as you do from three this season, like, that's probably going to be the best shot. But he likes to play out the possessions longer. I mean, it's hard to sit here and be like, hey, maybe you need to tweak some of the stuff you're doing when he's the best player in the world. But in this series and the way the Clippers are flying around defensively, there's a couple last night again, and we all know what they are. It's like, you got to get that shot off there. He also had a play where when the Clippers had the ball, Kawhi received the ball really deep and Murray was behind him. And then Kawhi turned around and made another shot and Jokic was incensed. And he was still so mad as he was bringing the ball up, you know, after an inbounds, after the make, he was kind of galloping and he was just that mad. And, you know, he's got his hands down and everything. So frustrating night for him and from him. But with somebody like Jokic, when you're at that level, it's the same as sga having a bad game. One I can be like, hey, is this guy that good? You know, you can find maybe that content somewhere else. I did think we were getting the Jim Harden game. You probably thought it too. He started one of five in the first quarter. Some of the defensive stuff from like, come on, Jim, what's going on, buddy? I mean, in transition, if you're driving at him, it must be the best feeling ever. Be like, oh, this is awesome. He's not going to do anything. The times on defense are like, who are you guarding right now? What's going on? But to James credit, four threes in the second and third quarter did only take one shot in the fourth, but it was pretty clear Kawhi had it going, that Harden was providing spacing. Even if that floater game from Harden is just so frustrating because you're still not 100. Sure. I mean, I think it goes in more often than I think that it's going to go in. And it was also important that Norm Powell got involved a little bit because he only had two makes through three quarters and then, you know, had some big shots there in the fourth quarter. So Kawhi finishes with 30, excuse me, 39 as we sit at the top. So. So that's his 36th, 30 point playoff game in his last 81 playoff games, which I think is the important note. Because, you know, in the beginning, he was not somebody they were looking to get 30 from when he was with the spurs the first few years. But he always seems to respond. Not that you'd be sitting here doubting him, but it's a nice little reminder because of the Paul George transaction, which I know is kind of annoying to bring this into it, but I think it's always something that I remind myself of as SGA's run around in OKC and there's all these draft picks, you're like, yeah, but if you're sitting there and you're Lawrence Frank and you go, if I trade for George, I know I'm getting Kawhi. And despite Kawhi being in street clothes so many years in a row, while the playoffs are going on, a nice little reminder of why a team would go all in on somebody like that, because he was spectacular last night. Okay, Detroit evens the series in New York after a disastrous fourth quarter 210 run by the Knicks. The building's on fire. You see the separation granted, Look, I think the Knicks are going to win this series. But this was an incredible response from a Pistons team that is young. This is new for them. And also ends a ridiculous losing streak in the playoffs. They have not won a playoff game or had not won a playoff game since the 2008 series against the Celtics. Fifteen straight losses in the playoffs, that was the longest active streak in NBA history. This is a team that had made it to six straight Eastern Conference finals. Just to put that into perspective, I don't think the Bucks will be swept. Okay, Bucks fans, take it easy. In the sensitive off series in the east between Indiana and Milwaukee. Just imagine if you said to the Bucks fan base, all right, you get swept, and this is a franchise that's made it to nine straight post seasons. You get swept in 25, your next. Your next playoff win is going to be in 2042. Now, with Giannis, that's. That's impossible. But just the premise.
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Danny Heifetz
This.
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Ryan Rosillo
These reminders of what these droughts can be like. And I'm reminded of every. Every year in the NFL playoffs, you're going like, when's the last time that team. Like, how does. How does it go? 20 plus years from multiple franchises, it just. Especially that sport, too, right? But in the NBA, for a Pistons team that, you know, I wouldn't say is the standard, but still, a franchise with some really good history and a track record of, like, when they won that last game in, in 2008, it's like, hey, your Next win is going to be in 2025. You're just like, well, that's impossible. That can't actually happen. And that's exactly what happened. So how did it happen? Kate Cunningham. Now, I want to talk about Kate a little bit here because he was so good last night. And I'll get into some of the stuff that he was doing that even if this series doesn't work. Albert Detroit. Right. This is just another part of the Runway that started last year with Cade becoming statistically what you'd hope you would get with the number one overall pick. But then in this moment in New York, to respond, go for 30. It just is a great feeling because of all of these teams searching for somebody, especially when you have the opportunity to draft that high. Like, is there a chance that we're getting a guy now? There's tiers to guys, and I'd say whatever that important, like, first tier that you have to get to. He is there now, is he a guy? Right. Different emphasis on the pronunciation of that. You know, that is a whole nother level. If we're talking about that, which I do talk about often, is how many people actually change the course of your franchise and make you think you have a chance to be a title contender. I mean, that's completely different. And that's not even. I'm not moving the goalpost here on Detroit. I'm just trying to talk about Cade in the sense of, like, what Detroit potentially has. Because we had touched on this before, I think, Bill and I, but we never fully. It was almost like we were doing a prep for a show, but we didn't actually do this on the show. But he always talks about, you know, who has the belt. And I think it's a really interesting way to look at the top players in the NBA. It's like, who's the best player in the league at that time and how long was his run? Almost like heavyweight champs. And so if you think about who we have now in the game that either has had the belt or could potentially have the belt. I mean, Kawhi is somebody that at one point had it. I don't know that he's ever going to have it again, but it sure looked like it last night. Clearly, Giannis has had it. I don't know that he has it now. I think most of us would give it to Jokic. SGA is going to win mvp, I imagine. So. That's three. Right. Available belt contenders. Still. Could Giannis be the best player in the world again? Yeah. Yeah, maybe I mean, it's going to be tough to pass. Jokic is going to be tough for anybody to. But SGA is in that conversation. So there's three. I think Luca is four. And this is really asking, like, could any of these guys potentially be the best player in the world? I think Ant is at least on the list as far as a discussion. I don't know that Tatum will ever be the single best player in the world, but he was even better this year. Even though I know everybody wants to shit on him at the playoff shooting the last couple years. I think Wemby's probably added to this. If you look at the GM poll, he won. Who would you most want to build around, which is fair. That can also be really misleading. I always like to remind people that in 2016, the GM poll, 48% of voters of general managers in the NBA said that they would want to build their franchise around Cat. That's a real thing that did happen. So how long can you go before you just start naming guys that are like, kind of good and young? Paulo's probably worth a mention in the course. Clearly. Wembanyama. I don't know if Cade's on the Powell line. Maybe it feels like, hey, Cade should be right there with Powell. That's fine. I wouldn't push back on any of that, but. But that's at least in play to be mentioned as another potential guy. I mean, that's asking a lot to be like, hey, can he be the best guy in the world just because he had 30 in game two? That's not really what I'm doing here, but it's just this awesome feeling of like, hey, they got it right with the number one pick. It was a little bumpy statistically in the beginning. I also think maybe we need to be a little bit more accepting of point guards coming into the NBA and how long it takes them to figure some of this stuff out. But what I loved about last night's game is just his pace and how quick he was and how decisive he was when they get out and run and he's just leading the break. Like, that's a lot to deal with with a guy with his handle, his size, his athleticism, and I'm not talking about, like him being ant athletic, but when. When you're one on one with him in transition, good luck. I mean, OG is really the only chance for the Knicks physically, they can keep up. So of his 21 shot attempts last night, I looked at it, how hard he worked the switches and how Hard he would attack when it was a non OG possession. Seven of the shots were against OG, four against Jalen Brunson, four against Bridges, two against Hart, two against Cat, two against Mitchell. So only seven of the 21 shot attempts last night were against OG. And OG does by the way, when he gets switched when he's hunting somebody else and OG is switched off of him. OG does a great job of getting back into the play defensively to give you a chance. But with Cade, with his size and seeing over the top everybody, this wasn't even the biggest night from Cade. It's just still so much to deal with. And then on top of that, when you look at the decisions, decisions is usually how it's pronounced for Bickerstaff on how he wants to close. Like we know it's Duran, we know it's Beasley who had a chance to hit the nail in the coffin. Three missed it. I just hesitate with guys that have negotiate with their coach on whether or not they can do a shimmy. And coach was like, can you do it when they call a timeout so that way you can get back on defense instead of shimmying. It's like coach. It's kind of my shit though. So yeah, that's an aside on Beasley. We'll leave that one alone. But the shrewder part of this clearly makes Cade's life easier. And so if you look at the Asar Schroeder decision for Bickerstaff, it was made for him last night because Asar fouls out went over the six fouls. First one was a collision, whatever. Second one was a good foul. The third foul was Brunson stopping on a cut. Asar is behind him. I don't think that should ever be called. If you want to just stop before you would get to the ball on a cut. And the guy, you know you're break checking dudes. That should never be a foul. The fourth one was stupid where their arms got tangled up. The fifth foul was egregiously terrible against the sar. He just beat him to the spot. Brunson fell down and then they just give him the foul. And then he hit Brunson when Brunson up fake from the three point line. You're going to get that call every time. That one didn't bother me as much. It was a little interesting too to see people kind of notice the Brunson foul baiting part of it. Dude, I'm telling you, last night's not even that bad based on Brunson standards. But because of SARS fouling out, it was like there was a heightened awareness for all of it. And look, Asar, in game one, when Brunson had that turnover going into the scores table, Assange, he just got to the spot, man. And I think Brunson was like more embarrassed than he was mad about not getting a call. Although, you know, look, maybe he thought he should have had a call. I have a little bit more here on Brunson, but to finish on that. So you could think SR might be the better spot there defensively if he hadn't fouled out. But it's very clear with Schroeder getting cade off of the ball and Schroeder, even though now he's assigned to Brunson, like he doesn't like him, he doesn't like Dennis, like they don't like each other, that's probably good for Detroit because Schroeder's just so motivated to try to stay in the possession defensively against Brunson. Brunson 27 shots last night, very easy. I saw some of it this morning of that's just too many shots. You were right. But you know what's crazy about the 27? I went through him again this morning. I'd say 21 of the 27 shots are good. So that's not 27 and being gross. It's just, hey, this is what's happening. And he's so good offensively, I would grade out 21 of those 27 shots as good shot decisions. Now the problem is what's happening to everybody else. What happened to the Cat pick and pop stuff from three. He's taken two and a half threes in this series. Cat has also, like, you know, if Tobias Harris is going to shut you down, that's a problem. I don't know if there's anything to be gained from the Cat Mitchell minutes together because that puts Duran on Mitchell and then you've got Harris on Cat. But Harris is winning more of those one on one matchups against Cat than I think you would expect, especially when he gets Cat turned around and Cat is trying to post up from like 15ft away. And then, you know, you get anybody to take a turnaround, that's kind of a win for you there. So for Cat, zero makes in the second half, zero shots in the fourth quarter. So look, I still think the Knicks win the series, But Brunson taking 27 shots, even if most of them are good, it's just making them easier to defend. Because the whole point of Cat is stretching the floor and opening some of this stuff up. And if he's not even taking those shots, it changes who the Knicks are on offense. The Ryan Rosilla podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are finally here and if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with FanDuel and their same game parlay profit boosts. Just build your perfect parlay, activate the boost and lock in your bet. If it hits, that's a bigger payout for you at no extra cost. Okay, looking at the board, nice little run lately here, but I do not like the Pacers bucks. I don't know what to do with that line. I don't know how you take even the 14 and a half with Memphis at OKC. Honestly forced to choose. I don't even think laying the 14 and a half I like you could go all right, I got this one wrong. The next day you'd be okay with yourself. Just because they may not even be able to figure out how to how big to make that line. Do you think Memphis responds? I mean SG didn't play that well but I'm going to focus on the last game. Minnesota plus five and a half. This is a a big number for how these teams match up against each other and this is how I always look at the series where each game is connected. I don't think Detroit necessarily wins game two if they don't blow game one. This is something that I would not debate with anyone. These games are connected. The outcome of the of the previous game heavily influences the next game. Unless a team completely is like overwhelmed. Speaking of Memphis and okc, but I think this is a really big number for Minnesota so I like the five and a half so I would play that just straight. If you want to do a little boost here, how about a two legger? How about 20 point scorers to score 20 more points in this series? LeBron in game two is minus 330 so score 20 more points. But Minnesota plus the five and a half, that's plus 146 sound good? Well you can score an even bigger W because FanDuel is giving you a profit boost for all of tonight's action. So don't just be a spectator this postseason. Head to FanDuel.com Ryan R Y E N to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more make every moment more with FanDuel. Official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus in present D.C. i opt in required minimum three leg parlay required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. If you're in B2B marketing, you want to make sure you're not wasting your ads on the wrong people. I remember when I was younger and I would watch games on television and I thought, man, a lot of ads about retirement, who's this for? And then I got older and I understood it. I was like, oh, now it makes sense. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers based on job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue, all the professionals you need to reach in one place. Stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you $100 credit on your next campaign so you can try it out yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com rrs that's LinkedIn.com rrs Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. Let's talk some draft and let's do it with a couple of the best here from the Ringer. You can check out out their podcast, the Ringer NFL draft show. As I was listening, they do some good positional stuff episode by episode and also the Ringer fantasy football show during the season. And you guys are. We're going to be live in Chicago tonight. We got Danny High Fitz and Danny Kelly who've been doing this for a little while. Is that true? The live show's tonight. Yeah.
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Danny Heifetz
So the live Show Today's Tuesday, April 22nd. So yeah, we're live in Chicago. We sold it out. So yeah, it's a fun, fun draft show. And then doing it Tuesday so we don't put DK on a plane on Thursday and stress him out.
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Danny Kelly
Right?
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Ryan Rosillo
Oh, all right. That makes a lot of sense. Both have mock drafts that are up. I gotta be honest with you. And I guess maybe I'll just do a Danny and then a DK here on this one I felt Danny, it was a little rude to click on your mock and then it would say if you want to see Danny Kelly's big board instead. I just don't like the wording. Feels rude. Yeah. And it's like if you're a pick seven and you're on the fence about high fit stuff here. Like, don't worry, we have this for you as well. I just think it needs to be phrased differently. It felt rude when I was on it this morning.
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Danny Kelly
Yeah, that's actually a big part of my contract. I'm always making sure to be one. One spot above high fits on everything. Give. Give everybody the option to read my stuff instead of heights.
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Ceruti
Is.
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Danny Kelly
That's a big part of it.
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Ryan Rosillo
All right. All right. Well, we got that out of the way. At least we could clear that up a little bit.
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Danny Heifetz
That's good advice though.
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Danny Kelly
That.
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Danny Heifetz
That's some real life advice is just listen to me, but do whatever DK says. That's generally good. Good thing to do.
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Ryan Rosillo
Because there was definitely. I don't know is I was looking at it this morning. Let's try this exercise before I get like a little bit deeper to how you guys are seeing both mocks, because we both know the mocks. The exercise is kind of like however you think how many players in your grouping should become first rounders. So let's start with something easy here. I want to go picks 1 through 10, 11 through 20, 21 through 32 players in that range. Okay, so the 1 to 2 range. The exercise here is. I'll be shocked if this player isn't a stud. From the 1 to 10 range, you can't pick. Pick Travis or Abdul Carter. All right, so we'll start with dk.
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Danny Kelly
I mean, I think the easy answer here is Ashton Genti, running back from Boise State. It would be shocking to me if he didn't end up being at least a very good running back in the league. I mean, elite contact balance, good explosiveness, makes guys missing a phone booth good in the passing game. He's basically as complete of a running back as you can get. I think the one thing that maybe he doesn't have that some of the most elite running back prospects of the past have had is like that extra gear, that home run gear. But I think otherwise he has everything you're looking for.
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Danny Heifetz
Yeah, I mean, I think Genty is a Hall of Fame player. Where.
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Ryan Rosillo
When.
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Danny Heifetz
With the phrase of. I mean, not literally hall of Fame, but hall of Fame in the. When the stats meet the eye test. Like, you watch Ashton Genti, you're like, oh, no one can tackle him. I still think my favorite thing anyone said about Genti Is every time someone goes to tackle him, it looks like they're getting electrocuted. And then you go to look at the stats and you're like, oh, yeah, his yards after contact are more than anyone just has yards, period. Last season, my favorite jetty stat is just that he had a thousand rushing yards before he had 100 carries, which I still can't get over.
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Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. And the thing is, there's enough film probably against. And I would ask you guys to jump in here with Genty. Is there enough in the Oregon game? Is there enough in the Penn State game that you feel like it's not just about the competition?
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Danny Kelly
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he rose to the occasion, I thought, even when they were playing some of the, like, the bigger teams, some of the. Because obviously, like, playing at Boise State, the level of competition is going to be a question mark. But I thought, like, every team that he was playing all year knew he was going to be the centerpiece, the focus of that offense. And he still produced every single game, you know. And so I think there are some, I guess, like, ways to look at it like the competition is a concern, but I think he did more than enough against some of the, like, the quote unquote, big teams that I'm not too worried about it.
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Danny Heifetz
And I think that's fair. Like, we were talking about, what if Jente sucks? And we're gonna be like, oh, yeah, maybe we should have cared what he did versus Utah State. But even the Penn State game, people were like, oh, he only had 100 yards. I'm like, they sold out to stop him. Like, he got the Derrick Henry treatment in that game. And I thought he still fared decently well considering the crazy, disproportionate game plan they had. They had to just stop him. So, I mean, I. I am willing to just do the outlandish Walter Payton esque comps for Genti. I think he's going to be incredible. But I also know that he probably should have been lumped in with Hunter and Carter. So, you know, I think, honestly, I think this is the hardest one, is the one to 10. Weirdly, it feels almost harder to, if you take Genti out of it, to find a fourth guy that you're like, oh, yeah, he'll definitely be a guy. Yeah.
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Ryan Rosillo
The Penn State game, I felt great about him after the fact, like there was nothing in there. It was like, oh, okay, you know, once. I mean, it really feels, maybe with tight ends and receivers, it's more alarming when you see production against a Lower level just because the separation, it's just easier. It's just easier to get off. And then when you'll see somebody step up and you're like, oh, like, now he's going up against NFL corners. I think McShay and I have talked a lot about, too, with. With some of the tackles at the lower levels, you're like, hey, it's just hard to look at all the film if you're not going up against any of the dudes that you expect to be drafted on day one. Like, what are you really evaluating? Because then you start getting into just technique and everything. I would throw in Jalen Walker. I'd be really surprised. And it seems like you guys are split on him and your mocks as well. But if I'm. If I can't go with Carter, quarterbacks, we know, are still a coin toss. Clearly, Travis would be the pick here if I'm going to do something different. I just loved Walker so much, and I felt like out of that group of the Georgia guys, his pursuit was incredible. His ability to chase down guys, you just don't think so. You know, whether it's him being a little undersized and not being like the prototypical. Look, not everybody gets to be Miles Garrett. But I would be surprised if Walker's not making plays if they just unleash him on Sundays.
- [29:17]
Danny Kelly
I totally agree with that. He's my 10th player on my big board. I just think he's a really exciting, versatile, kind of like a hybrid linebacker, edge player. You mentioned the, like, the closing speed, the pursuit. He is special when it comes to. He sees. He sees a play happening, he triggers down downhill and closes on the quarterback or the ball carrier, what have you in an instant. He's just so good. I think he's a spark plug player for a defense where he's going to really energize everybody around him. I think you can line him up and rush him off the edge at times. I think you can line him up off the ball. He's the perfect type of player for some of these hybrid defenses these days that are kind of taking over the NFL, where you have guys coming as blitzers from every different angle on different downs and the offense, the quarterback just never knows where the pressure is going to come from. I think he's the perfect type of player for those defenses. So, yeah, he's a. He's one of my favorite players in this draft.
- [30:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, let's go 11 to 20 range. We'll start with high Fitz.
- [30:15]
Danny Heifetz
I don't Know if I'm cheating. It's funny when I was doing this, just looking at who's gonna go where, but I, I kind of just love Matthew golden, the receiver from Texas. I love Golden. I mean, you're in the 4, 2, 9, 40 yard dash. I know that's fake. His mom's a track star. So I kind of think he just has incredible technique getting off the blocks because his 10 yard split for Matthew golden was like 98th percentile. He did 10 yards in like a second and a half. So I know that he's not really for two anything speed. But generally speaking, if you're even in that range, it's usually like the money, the moneyball conversation of are we selling jeans? Are we playing baseball? Like, oh, it's like these fast guys. Imagine when we teach him to play receiver. And then I think you look at Matthew Cole, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, what if he's.
- [30:51]
Ryan Rosillo
No, no, I know exactly. Right, right.
- [30:53]
Danny Heifetz
And I look at Matthew golden and I'm like, oh, so he is a route runner. He has wiggle, he has tempo, he can find the ball when it's in the air. He can, he plays big. Like he goes and gets the ball. He can catch through contact, he can become a ball carrier quickly. I don't think he's the greatest yards at the catch receiver ever, but, but he can convert quickly to. Okay, the basketball thing of do you close your eyes, you kind of know where everyone is on the court. He kind of does that when he has the ball in his hands and also he can return kicks. And I'm like on top of all that, most importantly, Matthew golden was clutch.
- [31:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Like he was the guy he was.
- [31:21]
Danny Heifetz
For that Texas team when they needed a play. And you look at all that together and the through line for that to me is I think Matthew golden just all those skills together, I just feel like the game goes a little slower for him, which you just never hear or think about when you hear four two nine speed. So even you call it four, four, I don't care. That speed combined with all these like little things usually hear about receivers that, oh, well, it's 4, 5, 46 speed, but he can do all this. I just like Matthew Golden. I don't think I want him on my fantasy team, but I absolutely think he's like an excellent number two receiver going forward.
- [31:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think the thing you're talking about there is kind of the Xavier Worthy conversation because there's a reason why Worthy went behind other guys because he wasn't the complete receiver. And then you see Kansas City get really creative with him. And I know I've talked about this before, but like everybody was losing minds week one of the NFL. Watching him being like, how do you let. And it's like, well, you know, it wasn't, he wasn't the most complete. And I think there are a lot of dudes that are just incredibly flashy and they're off the charts numbers wise. You just don't know if they're the most complete receivers because a lot of times in college and high school they can just rely on that speed the whole time so they don't have to worry about the rest of it. But it does feel like he has been throughout the pre draft process, somebody that has become everybody's favorite receiver outside of Travis Hunter. All right, dk, what do you got?
- [32:35]
Danny Kelly
I went with Jihad Campbell, the linebacker edge rusher from Alabama. I just feel like there's, it's hard to see him not being a productive, good player on a defense. Wherever he ends up, whether that's off, coming off the edge as a pure pass rusher or maybe doing a little bit of both, lining up, you know, in, in the secondary or whatever in the second level. I like this guy because he's, he's really long, he's really twitchy, really explosive. He has a nose for the football. I mean, he had 117 tackles last year, 65 stops according to PFF, which was second in the FBS. So he's always around the ball. Good feel for, you know, sifting through the trash and finding the football. And I think he has really untapped potential as just a pure edge rusher. He was recruited as a five star edge rush guy to Alabama. Kind of got stuck behind a bunch of really good pass rushers, bunch of first round style pass rushers there. And so kind of just decided to play a different position. He, he has, he offers that hybrid skill set, but I think he could be really good both as a linebacker and as an edge rush or whatever, whatever he ends up doing. Or maybe he does a little bit of both at the next level. And if you look, if you see him, he kind of has the physique of like a Miles Garrett. He's not quite as big as Miles Garrett, but I'm like, this guy is just a rare, rare athlete playing defense. So I really like him.
- [33:45]
Ryan Rosillo
I'll go with Tyler Warren. I think it's insane. Kelly has him 19th in his mock draft.
- [33:51]
Danny Kelly
I think he's going to end up Going higher than that. Yeah, I think he'll go top 10 probably.
- [33:56]
Ryan Rosillo
What's your hesitation?
- [33:59]
Danny Kelly
Well, I think my hesitation is the history of tight ends in the first round is pretty grim in terms of like the return on investment. Investment for a lot of teams. If you look at first round tight end like some of the best tight ends in the NFL are all like second rounders and lower and then you know, so I think there's that. I think the fact that he never tested in this pre draft process, we don't really know exactly how fast he is. That could throw teams off a little bit. The tight end position generally speaking is just not considered a premium position. And I think he's still a work in progress a little bit as a blocker. So I don't, I personally do believe he will go high and I think I've got him in my final mock draft which is going to publish tomorrow. I've got him going to the Colts at 14, so I guess a little bit higher. But he is one of the quote unquote blue chip players in this class. In my opinion it's just a matter of whether teams see tight end as is a huge difference making position.
- [34:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, so the last third essentially here of the first round. Heifetz, give us a name.
- [34:55]
Danny Heifetz
I feel like I'm cheating here, but I also just think of Mecca Buca from Ohio State. Like I just. And this is kind of similar to Matthew golden. So maybe I'm cheating but I feel like Ibuka is funny to me because I don't think anyone thinks Ibuk will be a superstar, but I don't. I have yet to find anyone who thinks Ibuka will fail in the NFL. And we don't have that term like prototypical number two receiver. Like we just talk about like a prototypical number one. Ibuka's a number prototypical number two, like he could block, he's. I think he's a power slot, he's versatile, he could do anything. And I'm such a sucker, a SAP for all like the, the intangible stories. I love that he was, he was a five star recruit who was going to trade, you know, all these guys transfer to a better high school to get better offers. And he was like I want to stay with my teammates. I want, I want to ride or die with these guys. I'm such a sucker for that. I'm a sucker from returning to Ohio State and getting the championship. So maybe I'm a total SAP. But to the point of your question of like if this guy Fails. Who would you be shocked. I would be shocked if a book. It didn't make it.
- [35:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I. Oh, no.
- [35:55]
Danny Heifetz
That's a terrible response.
- [35:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, no. Pause.
- [35:58]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, no.
- [35:59]
Danny Kelly
Heavy side.
- [36:00]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm. I'm with you because I think it's the floor part of it. But he also feels like he's lost in all of these other high profile Ohio State prospect names.
- [36:11]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [36:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Over the last few years and you know, from the jump, I don't know, it's almost like people got bored with how steady he was. So he's just not talked about like the rest of these guys. I went defensive side of the football. I'm going to South Carolina. One of my favorite units to watch play all season long. And that's even worry who. Look, he. He's in every single play. He's disrupting everything. He might not even go in the first round, but he runs a 4, 3, 8. It was at the combine. It wasn't a pro day 40 time. And I think he's a nasty dude. On top of whether he's getting in to. To break up passes his. I wouldn't even call it like run support, like sometimes just absolutely selling out and blowing up something you're trying to do on the sidelines. He was somebody when you watch South Carolina games and there was a lot of guys that get really excited about on the defensive side of the football, but he was just. It felt like constantly, constantly being involved in a presence throughout. So look, I don't even know if he goes in the first round. I just can't imagine watching him and playing and having that mentality and then him just sucking in the NFL.
- [37:16]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, I'm with you. I think he will go in the first round because he is truly, actually, literally maybe one of the most athletic safeties ever. According, like, according to some of his testing times, his relative athletic score, he's. He's probably the most athletic player at his position they've ever measured. And he's big, long. You know, I like how he brings kind of that intimidation factor that over the middle of field. You don't have a ton of safeties in the NFL nowadays that have that intimidating sort of presence. So he's definitely a guy I really like. I think he could be a guy that the Seahawks look at too, in the first round.
- [37:48]
Ryan Rosillo
All right. Do you have one for us, Danny?
- [37:50]
Danny Kelly
I do. I'm going back to the running back while here. Amarian Hampton. I just feel like there's no way that he is bad in the NFL. He's just Going to be a rock solid, high volume tackle breaking running back for whatever team picks him in that 20 to you know, like the last third of the first round. I think maybe Denver takes him in the first round and he just turns into the next Mark Ingram for, for Sean Payton. Explosive accelerator, which I love about him. Like he, he'll sit there and get stopped and then just explode through a hole through a gap, explode past like a big group of guys. He, he breaks a ton of tackles. He, he pinballs kind of through the line just like really hard to bring him down. I think he's reliable in the passing game. He's not necessarily an elite pass catcher, but he's good enough to be on swing passes, screens, things like that. And yeah, he's just an all around back with a ton of experience, ton of carries and I think, you know, other than like injury or whatever, I think these, there's no way this guy's going to be bad in the NFL.
- [38:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Be negative. Same exercise, same tiers of picks here. What would be the dumbest thing a team could do in the top 10? We'll start with Heidfitz.
- [38:59]
Danny Heifetz
So I'm, I'm pretty dumb. So how do you want like really dumb or how dumb do you want? Like the dumbest, truly.
- [39:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Let's say it's a possibility that this could happen. Did I ruin your, your idea?
- [39:13]
Danny Heifetz
No, you're good. Because I was thinking about what's the thing that would get flamed the most and I was like the Giants taking Ash. Like I just think that's the funniest possible thing is after the Saquon wins the super bowl at the Eagles, if the Giants took Ashton Chanty over Abdul Carter. I think that that is the dumbest thing that can happen because it wouldn't be shocking, right? Like he's such a good player, but also, oh, I would be really dumb.
- [39:36]
Ryan Rosillo
I totally get what you're saying, but I'll just as an aside to continue what I said before the season and it looked dumber as the season played out, but the principle still the same is what was the point of the Giants having Saquon Barkley so good for him. And I know it's embarrassing for Giants fans and Eagles fans in your life are giving you shit the entire time. And he did something that is pretty rare in today's game. Being a running back that was dictating wins, wins in the playoffs. That's really not how any of these teams are built anymore. So I am defensive about Joe Shane and their decision to Go. Why are we paying a running back a ton of money when we're not really even that good? As embarrassing as it may be, spending the pick on him and seeing ownership come in and be like it's really going to suck if we see him in. He goes like, I understand all the punchlines. The fundamental point for me has never changed that they shouldn't have been paying Saquon Barkley for where they were as a franchise.
- [40:31]
Danny Heifetz
I mean, imagine if they had kept him and then they win one more game maybe and then everyone just makes fun of them for paying the running back.
- [40:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, well, I guess. All right, so if they take Gentee then people are going to find a way to shit on them all over. Yeah, yeah, it probably will be. What happens. All right, Kelly, what do you got?
- [40:49]
Danny Kelly
I look at the. There's some mocks and this is actually turning into sort of like a common thing. Jackson Dart in the top 10 to the Saints specifically. I just feel like as just disaster written all over it. Not that I don't think he could end up developing into a good quarterback down the line. I think he's just one of those players that is going to need some time to develop. He's going to need some time to. It's just a projection right now whether he can learn to be in a progression passing game, you know, go through his reads. Right now the offense that we saw at Ole Miss is just, you know, one read, get the ball out or go scramble and kind of be a playmaker. So I just think there's a ton of projection that goes into Jackson Darts game and I just don't think the Saints are really a team right now that is constructed to give a quarterback a great chance of success, especially a quarterback like Jackson Dart. So it's like they have issues on their offensive line. The receiver core is barren at this point. I mean, assuming Olave is. I don't know what's happened, what's going to happen with Olave going forward. I don't know. They just don't seem like a team right now that can put a drop a quarterback in there, especially a developmental type quarterback like Jackson Dart and have success in the NFL. So I think that one to me is just has disaster written all over it.
- [41:58]
Ryan Rosillo
With the car injury, you're seeing this happen a little bit where you've seen Shador in there. You just brought up Jackson. I gotta be honest with you. This feels very dismissive of Spencer.
- [42:09]
Danny Kelly
Spencer Rattler, sure, maybe that maybe he's the future there. Who knows?
- [42:15]
Ryan Rosillo
It the dumbest thing already happened. It's the Patriots ending up with the fourth pick instead of the first pick.
- [42:20]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [42:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, of all the years for it to break out this way, and there's a team that is going to take a quarterback in front of them. So you're still thinking, okay. And then it's like, no. I just don't envision any scenario where Hunter or Carter are available with that fourth pick. And Will Campbell was really good at lsu. I don't know if you're taking somebody that's going to anchor and like, you're expecting. If you're taking a left tackle fourth overall with his resume, you're expecting, like, not just anchoring the left side of your offensive line.
- [42:52]
Danny Kelly
Right.
- [42:52]
Ryan Rosillo
For 10 years. You're talking about somebody that you can game plan with because he's so dominant. And I don't know, I feel like the highest his hype ever was, was the summer going into 24. Really. And I'm not. I'm not, like, knocking you. It just feels like this is. If you're at 4, you really hope you're not drafting for need. And because they won that last game this season, that's what could happen here. Okay, 11 to 20 dumbest scenarios. Who wants to go first?
- [43:24]
Danny Kelly
I can throw one out here.
- [43:25]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, go for it.
- [43:26]
Danny Kelly
This is kind of a homer pick here because I'm a Seahawks fan, but Seahawks not taking offensive linemen in the first round is gonna. I can already tell. I'm already getting kind of mad about it already. Yeah, just like preemptive anger is. Is forming in my stomach right now because they didn't do anything to basically augment or like, fix their offensive line. They had a bunch of guys come in. They ended up not signing any of them in free agency, and now they've kind of painted themselves into a corner a little bit, I think, in having to take a. To take an offensive line. I mean, they've had one of the worst offensive lines over the last. It feels like a decade. I don't know exactly how long it's been, but I can't remember last time the Seahawks had a good offensive line. And we're going into this next season with a quarterback in Sam Darnold who is pressure sensitive. It's really going to help him a lot if the offensive line is giving him protection, helping him, you know, have that extra beat to get the throw off. And I just feel like Darnold, especially among quarterbacks, is one of those guys that if pressure's coming consistently, he's just it's going to not go well for him. So I'm already getting mad that the Seahawks didn't take an offensive lineman when they pick first.
- [44:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, High Fitz.
- [44:36]
Danny Heifetz
I I the dumbest possible thing that could happen in the entire draft is if the Falcons just take Shitter Sanders. They just take another quarterback. You know, that panics Kirk Cousins. Just take another quarterback. You know, just one. Yeah, it's always sunny style. Just keep adding him. Now, I know that that won't really happen, but I will lose my mind if the Falcons don't take a defensive lineman. I mean, this is a team that's dead last in sacks in the last 10 years, last five years, last three years, the whole, like, Falcons collapse, blown lead meme. It's just the Falcons not having a pass rush. They didn't have a pass rush in the Super Bowl. They blew to Tom Brady. Like, Atlanta's not had a great pass rusher. And I mean, since John Abraham Like 15 years ago, I believe the Falcons don't have anyone who's had seven sacks post Covid. It's been like four or five seasons since the Falcons even had anyone get to like eight sacks in a year. And so if Atlanta does not take a pass rusher in this draft, I'll lose my mind. But the funniest thing would be if they just take a quarterback again, I'll.
- [45:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Make mine quicker so we can get to the last. I think as a rock who being available at 21 would be a mistake. All right. The edge of Austin College. I think he's just a little off the radar in comparison because it's such a stacked edge class. And maybe if we just stay on the topic and not specific to him. But when I go through the mocks and look at the stuff and I just think about how I feel about some of the guys, I'm like, I think I'd be okay taking the seventh edge guy. And instead of. Because you can kind of mess with yourself a little bit and be like, we're getting the seventh best guy at this position. Well, if there was a draft where you should still feel good about it in the late 20s, I would rather do that than maybe the fourth option, a tackle here. And there's, there's very specifically, like, some positions here where there's just, there's a fear of like, not having anybody available in the second or third round. I think some of the offensive lineman stuff is certainly true with a lot of that, but there's just so many edge guys. You could maybe even Just claim defensive line overall. If we're going to some of the big dudes that are going to be going in the 20s as well. I just, I don't know that I would let that bother me. If you feel like you're getting the seventh graded guided position, because I think that specific position, there's just so much talent in this. All right, I'll go first on 31 or, excuse me, 21 to 32. If Milro goes in the first round, I will, I will question that team's.
- [46:48]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, what if someone trades into the first round to take Milro? They're giving up picks to, to get back in there. Yeah, I had that one circled as well. I, I, I think Heifetz and I are both probably higher on Milro than most people, but even I would be a little bit concerned if you, if you trade up into the first round or take him in the first round just because, again, that's just such a long development arc for him that you have to kind of bake in. I know he's an awesome athlete, but just not going to be ready to go right away.
- [47:15]
Ryan Rosillo
I love having Quincy Avion. Not that long ago, talking about Jalen Hurts of like, Jalen Hurts was a really limited guy coming out of college, and it's okay to admit it. And I love that Quincy, because that first year when they're winning games, I was still kind of like, I don't really know how much he's doing, though. And Quincy, who has worked with him, who's his guy, was like, well, that first year, like, this wasn't the full palette. Even though it is odd that after a Super bowl win, it feels like people are kind of dissing them all over again. Like, whatever he is, like, it's okay. It's, it's a bit like, I'm going to Bill Simmons, you guys here, and find a way to talk about Jason Tatum. It's okay that Jason Tatum's not the best player in the world. It's going to be okay. Right, Right. It's okay that Jalen Hurts is probably not really like a consistent top five quarterback in the NFL, but on top of everything else that they do, I would be shocked, and I would say I'm surprised about Hertz and who he's become, but I would be absolutely shocked if Milroe is somebody who's starting, like, multiple seasons, you know, the guy that gets another contract. So, so cut this one. And if I end up being wrong. But I just did not see, I did not see a guy at Alabama that I would be like, hey, let's trade into the first and risk all of our jobs. Because, I mean, the first year the. The offensive coordinator has him, if you're actually like taking him in the first round, that, that guy, I hope he's running.
- [48:35]
Danny Kelly
I'm going to piggyback off of the Hertz discussion. And the dumbest thing to me that's going to happen in that range of the first round is one of these very talented. And I don't have anyone specifically in mind, but this happens every year where someone who, who I think the. The draft consensus really likes ends up falling a little bit. One of these, one of the beloved draft Twitter people is going to fall to 32 to the Eagles, and the Eagles are going to take them. And we're all going to be really excited that the Eagles got a great player.
- [49:05]
Danny Heifetz
Like Derek Harmon goes to the Eagles.
- [49:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [49:08]
Danny Kelly
Like, it's going to be someone that everyone loves. And for whatever reason, whether maybe it's like some injury red flag or something that we don't really know about yet, he falls to 32 and the Eagles are like, all right, well, I'll take them. And he's going to turn into like a Pro bowl player every year.
- [49:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, that is perfect because you're basically saying no matter what happens, everyone is going to like the Eagles pick. Yes. All right, so if it's. We need one more from you. Correct.
- [49:38]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. I just think, I just think a team like Saints, Giants, Browns, take your pick. Trading back up for Tyler Shuck in the first round. Like, if the Eagles trade back five spots and still get Derek Carmen. But then like the Browns, Giants, Eagles got Tyler schuck with that 32nd pick just to get the fifth year option. I know, I know Todd McShay loves him, my University of Richmond brethren with Todd and Mensch. But I, you know, I know Jeremiah and Todd came on this week and talked about how the age stuff didn't bother them with Tyler Schuck. It bothers me. I don't like the. Tyler Schuck was in the same recruiting class as Trevor Lawrence. Tyler Schuck is the oldest quarterback prospect in this draft. He is the most injured and the least experienced, and I am. But I also genuinely think that on some team sports he will be second or third and probably third. And so I think that if Dart. If the Saints go up and get Dart, maybe at the viking spot at 24th, I think there are some teams that might be looking at Shuck with that Eagle spot at 32 and I, I will not be a fan.
- [50:34]
Ryan Rosillo
What kind of grade do you have on Alan Bowman? Must be even. Must be even worse. All right, give me a player. You are on an island about. Everybody thinks you're stupid for thinking this.
- [50:50]
Danny Kelly
I was gonna say hi. Fitz and I, I think both see, are pretty lockstep about Jalen Milro. Not, not, not necessarily super high on him, but we just want like, of all the quarterbacks that you could take a risk on, I think I would probably take the guy who can run a 4:3 and has a rocket arm. Maybe we can figure out how to teach him to play quarterback later. I was going to say this one's not so. This one's kind of more in the weeds, but Bashal Tutin, the Virginia Tech running back, he gives me the same sort of exciting feeling I had when I was watching Devon Achan in college in terms of just his blazing speed, turbocharged acceleration, ability to access, you know, gaps in the line that like very few other running backs can have. He's, he's more of like a third round type of guy. But Talladega, yeah, it's just, I love when the cars go by. Like just the speed that he has is so fun to watch. So he's kind of like turning into my guy.
- [51:40]
Danny Heifetz
I think I'm realizing my, my island player is, you know, that Yogi Berra phrase. Like, it's so crowded, no one goes there anymore. I didn't know I was on an island until I looked around. I think I'm the last person left who thinks Travis Hunter is going to play full time receiver, full time cornerback and be incredible at both at the same time. I genuinely think Travis Hunter makes an all pro team on both sides of the ball. And I feel like everyone else thinks this is not possible. And I don't know why.
- [52:13]
Ryan Rosillo
I love it though. Like, I always think of like the Ohtani conversation in the beginning. It's, it's just so this thing that everybody said nobody could ever do, this guy's going to do it and he's not just going to do it, he's going to do it this ridiculous level. I do like to think that there's some people that were told too early on in the process, like, you can't do these things. And what Hunter just did proves that. You know, again, I, I've heard the Champ Bailey stuff. I mean, if you go through the Charles Woodson numbers, you're like, that was not the Travis Hunter experience. Okay? Just, there's no comparison for number of snaps and what we're talking about Hunter doing or what a team is asking of him. I would. I would hate to think he would be denied that opportunity. But maybe I'm wrong for looking at the assumptions as being just a little too wide of like, no, you can't do it in the NFL. There's no way that you would hold up. There's no chance, if you're going to take a guy this high, the big contract that you're going to end up giving him, because it'd be kind of shocked if he's not off a rookie deal, getting a big extension. Would you be jeopardizing that? What if he can actually just do something that we've all been conditioned to believe that can't be done? And Ohtani is the exact same way. It was always. There's no way, like we were told, pitchers can never hit because it takes too much time prepping yourself. You can't get the abs you can't figure out. There's no way you can hit at a high level in Major League Baseball because pitching is going to take up too much of your time or I'm going to win an mvp. Now, granted, because of the Tommy John, he hasn't pitched consistently the way he did when he first came up. So I would love, even though Travis is 100% insanely wrong for saying what he's doing is more impressive than what Ohtani's doing, I would hate to have him with a program. Maybe I should just say system that would deny us the opportunity to see if he could do the unthinkable.
- [54:08]
Danny Heifetz
I think the Browns, if they take him, are going to give him a shot.
- [54:12]
Ryan Rosillo
I love it. Okay. We're building towards it. We'll finish with it. War Room followers where I put both guests in the war room with options for a team. And you have to make your case in the room here. All right, so let's start with Arizona. 16th pick in the first round. Tyler Warren somehow still on the board. Now you're saying, hey, Ryan, weren't you telling the nation Trey McBride is a baller and we should be paying attention. Yeah, I understand, but I'm also willing to think, could they get creative here? Johnny Brown, corner out of Texas. Now, I think Heifetz has him 23rd in the first round. So he's probably going to be in the room being like, dude, this is a reach at 16. And Genti, for whatever reason, is still there at 16. So start with. Let's start with Danny Kelly.
- [55:00]
Danny Kelly
Oh, man, this is tough. I. I probably Honestly would just go with Genti in this case because he is one of the few very top tier blue chip players in this class. James Conner isn't going to be around forever for them. You know, obviously they took Trey Benson last year, but he, you know, the third round, but he wasn't necessarily doing anything all that special for them. So I think I just got to go with Genti. I mean, I feel like anytime anyone asks me about Genti, I'm just going to say Genty because he is just such a special player in this class.
- [55:29]
Danny Heifetz
My only disagreement with Danny Kelly there is it's not tough at all. I am going to do an Ashton Genti impersonation and just barrel through everyone in the draft room to hand the Ashton Genti Garden for Arizona because I like Tyler Warren a lot. I kind of lowercase l love Tyler Warren, but when you just handed Trey McBride this massive contract, it's like, I am not going to let Trey Benson being drafted in the third round last year stand between me and Ashton Genti being an iconic Arizona Cardinal. So I am going to do whatever it takes to get Genty at 16 for Arizona.
- [55:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, let's make it weird. All right, last one. In all these scenarios are thrown out here. You're the Tennessee Titans. You've done the work, you've made the phone calls, you've looked at the notebooks, you've accrued the frequent flyer miles. You don't care. That will. Levis's marketability is probably going to take a bit of a hit here. You're ready, you're ready to take Cam or. But God, there's a couple guys on your staff. You're like, you know who was the steal of draft last year was b Knicks. So now you're Sean Payton. And you're like, why is Tennessee calling? Why is Tennessee calling me? And then somebody from Tennessee says, do you want to dance? And they offer up like, we want Bo Nicks. We will give you this year's first, the number one overall pick in this draft and two more firsts for Bo Nix. And to add into the scenario here, Kirk Cousins has just purchased a home in Cherry Creek. I do not know if it's a condo or a single family residence.
- [57:00]
Danny Kelly
I would say no to that. I would be not doing that if I was the Titans. If I was the Broncos, I would 100% do that. Is that what you're asking?
- [57:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Who said, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're working for Denver?
- [57:10]
Danny Kelly
Three first for. Yeah, 100% would do that.
- [57:14]
Danny Heifetz
I, as a matter of like as a policy, I try not to imagine what's going on in Sean Payton's head too much. But I have to say I. The Broncos take that seven ways. It's like seven days a week. Twice on Sunday you take the first and then you're picking. You have Cam Ward first. You then trade that pick again to the Giants because you're Sean Payton and you're going to turn. And honestly, I think Sean Payton, you trade from 1 to 3, then you trade again down from 3, get out of the Abdul Carter pick and you take shitter Sanders like 20th and you just sit there and you have six firsts over the next two years. And yeah, I'm doing that.
- [57:51]
Ryan Rosillo
It sounds like in a vacuum that you would trade Bo Nix for Cam Ord.
- [57:57]
Danny Heifetz
I would, I would because I think that Bonix was good and I don't want to denigrate what Bonix did last year. I mean he would rent win rookie of the Year, I think in most other seasons, by the way.
- [58:07]
Ryan Rosillo
I think the kind of having the same Bo Nicks conversation.
- [58:10]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, I called him Boomer Bow last year. I was pretty negative about the whole thing. But I think the reality is Sean Payton can make it work with multiple quarterbacks and I would just go ahead and trust that Sean Payton with a lesser quarterback and five other first round picks or two other first round picks, whatever. I. I'm going to do that. I'm going to bet on Sean Payton, not bet on Bo Nick.
- [58:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. All right. I love it. I want to make sure that everybody gets all this stuff because our guy Craig couldn't make this. It was just. I don't know if I could go three wide. So I apologize to Craig because everybody loves Craig so much. But the ringer NFL draft show, make sure you check out the pod throughout the week. Go back, watch some of the other episodes. They're live tonight in Chicago. And of course gearing up for the fantasy football season. The rigor fantasy football show as well. I have heard from the Chuck but Narik family. I apologize on your behalf. Yes, dude.
- [59:01]
Danny Heifetz
People, I've watched so many pronunciations that one doesn't even register. You know, I said, yeah, Chuck Bednarch and a lot of Eagles fans.
- [59:12]
Ryan Rosillo
There's an award named after the guy, man. Right. I'll send you guys some pictures because when I was listening I was like, ooh, every night. You're kidding. Are you serious that the family reached out to me? Yeah, I am kidding. Yeah.
- [59:26]
Danny Heifetz
God, I'm so stupid. Hey, I.
- [59:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Any of us that do this for a living. There's so many times where you're like, you know, there's still a couple Euro guys in the NBA, but you know what'll mess me up is it'd be league pass where I'm like, I thought I had this guy's name for two years, and I was like, this guy's doing. Yeah. And then I realized I'm like, that guy was actually wrong. I think I pronounced Zubots's name seven different things since he's been in the league. But that also is a big factor in most improvements. Because if I was voting Zubots, which I did for most improved in the NBA, it makes sense, because not only did his game get better, more and more people actually learned his true pronunciation. And that, to me, is the journey of somebody that. That. That stepped up what their game was. Have a great show in Chicago tonight. I won't be there, obviously, and I didn't think you'd expect me to be there. So I think we're all doing what we thought.
- [60:15]
Danny Heifetz
What are we going to. We saved a seat for you in the front row. What are we going to do with that seat now?
- [60:18]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, the guest of honor, we'll give.
- [60:19]
Danny Heifetz
It to the Bednar family.
- [60:21]
Ryan Rosillo
That's exactly what you should do. There's got to be a cousin or a niece in there somewhere. All right, thanks. Enjoy, boys.
- [60:26]
Danny Kelly
Thank you.
- [60:26]
Danny Heifetz
Thank you.
- [60:30]
Danny Kelly
You want details?
- [60:31]
Danny Heifetz
Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [60:35]
Ryan Rosillo
What's up?
- [60:37]
Ceruti
I have a ridiculous house in the south fork.
- [60:39]
Danny Heifetz
I have every toy you can possibly imagine, and best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.
- [60:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Live advice. The email address lifeadvicerrgmail.com. i hope everybody's fired up for a great Tuesday day. Hasn't even started for me yet. I'm just on top of the world. Got the power washer showing up here a little bit later. I'll let everybody know. And in case you have any power washing advice, I mean, they gave me a quote, and I was like, you're doing the inside of the windows too? I'm like, man, that seems like a good deal. I mean, luckily this will post after they bill me, but we'll see.
- [61:12]
Ceruti
So.
- [61:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, so, like, ready to go?
- [61:15]
Ceruti
No, this is great. This is. This isn't a zag at all. I don't do a lot of yard work. I used to mow the lawn. I don't really do it anymore. It's kind of a pain. I Don't like dealing with grass stuff. What else? I don't do the leaves. I don't do the leaves. I don't do the weeding. Yeah. I'm just not. I don't know. I'm a little bit of an indoor cat when it comes to that stuff. But I will tell you, the best piece of equipment that I have ever bought for anything is a power washer. It is exhilarating. It's you.
- [61:44]
Ryan Rosillo
You. Do you. You.
- [61:45]
Ceruti
I mean, it's so versatile. You could do, like, your pavers. You could do the side of the house if you're careful. You could do, you know, fences and stuff. And it's like a little bit of, like, asmr. It's, like, so soothing to see it. So if you're one of those guys that, you know, you're looking to buy what equipment? I use that thing all the time. So. Shout out to power Washington.
- [62:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Wargon, where are you with the maintenance stuff?
- [62:07]
Worgon
Hey, guys. I live in an apartment building, dude. I don't. I don't do anything.
- [62:12]
Ceruti
He's got a guy.
- [62:13]
Worgon
Yeah, yeah. Just hope that my super takes care of everything.
- [62:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. But since you. If you're renting, we're not even talking about hoa. Just that that's part of the rent. Right, Right.
- [62:25]
Worgon
Exactly. We don't even pay for power in my building, which is great.
- [62:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow. Wow. That's amazing. I'm blown away.
- [62:34]
Worgon
Yeah.
- [62:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. All right. Yeah. For anybody asking why I'm not doing it on my own, I don't want to store ladders. I would need some serious ladder work. I just don't understand. Like, I think these guys are going to get here and go, hey, we screwed up on the price. I'm guaranteeing it that somebody goes. There's no way we can do this. But I gave him the dimensions. I. I think they're. We'll say. We'll work with them.
- [63:00]
Ceruti
You know, quote the quote.
- [63:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, Yeah. I don't know. You know, if. If I got a guy that's his own little small business, and he. I think he went too low. So we're gonna see how it goes. Okay. I like to be fair. Stern, but fair. All right. Emails, you know, I could. Yeah. The tip thing's a little weird, though, on everything, because now I feel like everybody kind of wants one. Like, should I have tip for guys to have cleaned the grills and because they had to redo the holes to get the gas out through the grills?
- [63:30]
Ceruti
I would say that's not a typical thing, but I I don't know. I. I have found myself Googling so many different activities, being like, am I supposed to tip here now? Like, what's the etiquette? And of course, you go on Reddit.
- [63:40]
Ryan Rosillo
It's.
- [63:40]
Ceruti
You get every answer you want. Whatever you want to find, they'll tell you.
- [63:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm. I'm going to take care of. They were looking at me a little bit at the end, and then I thought, oh, maybe they expected to tip here. Like, what can you pay for in your house that isn't supposed to be tipped anymore? But we're gonna take care of them. We're gonna take care of them good. All right, here we go. Presumptuous wedding guest 5 11, 220 gym stats 225, 315 deadlift, usually leg press. 275 for reps instead of squat. Currently training for my first marathon in August, Oregon. Any. Any tips?
- [64:15]
Worgon
Marathon's out of my. Out of my league. I would never do a full. I'm like, never on death's doorstep after the half. And it's not. It's not like twice as I. It's exponentially harder.
- [64:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Never. You're never going to do it?
- [64:29]
Worgon
No.
- [64:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. NBA player comp. Jason Maxiel. An undersized forward, but good to contribute a couple points a game and will work hard on the boards. Great reference. We love the Bearcats on this pod. My fiance and I are both in our 30s of planning our wedding August 25th. We sent out to save the date cards last month, and I've already had people RSVPing for the big day, exclamation point. My fiance's played on a coed softball team with a number of her friends from high school and college for a few summers now, and most of them will be invited. This just screams in Chicago to me right now, but, you know, just good stock all around. Every time I think of coed softball and everybody having a good time, I always think of Chicago. I know they used to do it in Southie, but, um, I'm sure they still do it in Southie, to be honest with you. I remember when friends started moving there and they felt like they were like, yeah, we're out. It's like the pre burbs. One of her teammates who is new to the team this year, that was the end of my softball theorizing. Let's call her Susan. She texted my fiance this weekend, quote, hey, I was looking for my RSVP card, but it doesn't look like I've gotten one yet. She is not invited. Being newer to the team, this is not someone that we've gotten to know outside of playing softball on Sundays. So she's a bit of a wild card. My fiance's initial reaction was panic, followed by a suggestion of just inviting her to the wedding.
- [65:48]
Ceruti
Yep.
- [65:48]
Ryan Rosillo
She's also concerned about the talk of the wedding happening during the softball season, knowing that not everyone is going to be invited. I do not want to just add someone to our guest list for sake of avoiding possible awkward conversation. And our venue does have a limit on capacity for the event, as most do, I'd imagine. How would you respond to the initial text of how and how should we proceed moving forward in the event the situation happens again? Thanks. Love the podcast. How about she's not invited? Wait, really?
- [66:15]
Ceruti
Yep.
- [66:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Do tell.
- [66:17]
Ceruti
Yeah. So it was. I got married. What, right after. I think you left or something. It was kind of early when I started working on Will's show and it.
- [66:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Was right when I had left and then I'd come back and that was another thing. And serenity. And I talked off the air and I was like, hey, I was just there. I was dealing with this stuff. Is there any chance, like, do you care if I don't come right back to Connecticut and everybody's pissed at me still? And I do kind of understand. I. I'm not defending myself, although it sounds like I was doing it. The problem is Surudi gave me such a hardcore sign off on. Like, I totally understand.
- [66:49]
Ceruti
I did not care. Like, I really didn't care. I really.
- [66:51]
Ryan Rosillo
But people, people do care, and I understand why they do. And I'll admit, as I've aged, a tinge of regret.
- [66:58]
Ceruti
It was a good wedding. Yeah, we had. We had. I heard it was awesome, but that's not the story. The story is essentially that I invited. So I had started working on a new show. Is Will show. I had known Will for a little while. Bubba was a guy I'd worked with for a while over there. Who else? Ray Nachi, our old producer. Ray. There's a bunch of group around there, right? And then there were some new people on the show. Nuno, Liam, who used to produce Mike and Mike, who I. I didn't. I knew, but didn't know super well, but had gotten to know well. But by the time, you know, you're sending these wedding invites out months in advance, like, I didn't know Liam as well then. So he didn't get the invite. He and Nuno did not get the invite. They're the only two people on Will show that weren't invited. And in classic Will Kane fashion, he brought this up on the show on the air, and we just talked it out, and it was wildly uncomfortable for your boy. And I love Will. That was one of. Not one of my favorite Will Kane moments. People can insert whatever jokes they want here, but.
- [67:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I think it was. Part of it is he thought both were not citizens. Right.
- [67:56]
Ceruti
He was concerned with the border pretty early. Yeah. I mean, technically, yeah. Liam is English, Nuno. Portuguese. So, yeah, there were some. Who knows? But yes. So that was. It was uncomfortable. It's probably the most uncomfortable I've ever been on air doing anything was when Will, out of nowhere, basically was like, shruti, they're not invited. What's up with that? And then I had to essentially explain why. And I don't think they cared, but I felt bad. And I literally talked to my wife, Maddie. I was like, should we invite them? Like, this is. I feel like a dick now because I am friendly with them. Like, I'm close with them.
- [68:29]
Worgon
You can't invite them after, though.
- [68:30]
Ceruti
They didn't want the invite. I didn't think they didn't want the pity invite. And honestly, I respected that. I wouldn't want the pity invite either, so. But this is a different scenario. This person, like, I actually understand this. And if you don't want to, if you want to avoid the confrontation, you also want to understand, like, 20% of people likely turn down wedding invites. If you know this person's going to go, it's another gift for you. Is the easy answer just inviting her? Like, I think it kind of is.
- [68:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow. I did not expect that at all, by the way, just to add to the ESPN thing. There's not a lot going on in that part of the country. And so going away parties were huge. We're like, you know, who else in West Hartford, who else is not getting renewed? Oh, that'll be a good night at Kuve.
- [69:09]
Ceruti
Yeah, the bar Taco.
- [69:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Right. I remember looking forward to my going away party, and then once it was time for me to go away, all I wanted to do was just go away. So I probably just went out by myself. Yeah.
- [69:20]
Ceruti
We didn't throw you one, I don't think. Right. You probably.
- [69:22]
Ryan Rosillo
I didn't want one.
- [69:23]
Ceruti
One.
- [69:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Well, I had left, and then I had to come back, and so I was like, back again. I was in Connecticut a lot longer than I thought I was. And then I was just like, I don't. I don't want to be that guy because I There was a little gathering at the Mexican place across the street with middle management, which was not a bender by any chance. And I think I wanted to leave that pretty quickly, although I appreciated the effort from some involved. So I don't want to sound dismissive, but that was like, I think we had a margarita and some chips and I was like, okay, that's the luck, dude. Yeah. Because I felt like they felt like they had to do it. And I, I was totally fine being like, we don't have to do anything because not to.
- [70:00]
Ceruti
I mean, not. Yeah, I don't think this is gonna make you mad or change any way you think, but that is like the least effort place the. Across the street. Like, if you didn't mean anything to anyone, they took you across the street to the taco place. Because it was, it was just a bad place and it was the most convenient spot.
- [70:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Absolutely not offended. That's 100. What happened and why? I was even more like, okay, you know, I'm, I'm ready. But then it was always the hope that especially like, hey, who's gone? And then it was just an excuse. So my point is, is there aren't a lot of those moments. That's why the going away parties are such a huge deal, because it's like, at least we'll have some sort of excuse to pretend we're having fun. Even though some people are going away not based on their own decision. So sometimes those could even get weirder. Right? It's like, I don't want to leave. No, that. I don't know that that ever happened at last call. But the wedding thing, it's kind of assumed. Like, hey, board up, you're push buttons, you're over here, you're cutting sound. You get us some Padres highlights late last night. Like, of course I'm in the mix for Shruti's wedding, but I do think that it's always a bit weird, like, if there's. There's not a lot of a relationship there just because we're in the same room for three or four hours a day. I don't know. But there's, there's back to the email, this presumption that we're all in this together. Like, how could you leave me out? And I think it's very specific. I know this happens a lot in a lot of different work environments, but very specific to espn. That might be the social highlight of the year for a lot of people, especially for a guy like Saruti, Oregon. You were not invited, right? When you were at espn.
- [71:37]
Worgon
No, no. Me and Saruti weren't close then.
- [71:39]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [71:40]
Worgon
Yeah. Later, someone say, we didn't even know each other.
- [71:42]
Ceruti
So fair.
- [71:43]
Ryan Rosillo
What about you, Oregon? Oh, wait a minute. Serious. Not done. Sorry.
- [71:46]
Ceruti
Well, I'm just going to bring up this point too. The person asking, where's my wedding rsvp? That person sucks too. You gotta be kidding me.
- [71:54]
Ryan Rosillo
Thank you.
- [71:54]
Ceruti
So I'll just leave you guys with that. It's your turn. Work on.
- [71:57]
Worgon
So we had some friends who like, tiered out all their people. Like, these are my tier one friends. They're all getting invited. Tier two probably getting invited. They got the big board. We didn't really do that. We sort of did. One and two got invited. Threes and fours. We'll talk to you later. I. I don't know. I. I would never ask. And I think this is like. I think you tell them, like, sorry, you're not invited. I think you go right into, like, the uncomfortableness as like a punishment for them asking.
- [72:28]
Ceruti
I changed my answer. Worgon. That's a great call.
- [72:31]
Worgon
Yeah.
- [72:32]
Ceruti
Because. Because, yeah, it's. It's such an move. Like, even if you feel hard done by it, whatever, you don't. You don't go. Maybe somebody tipped them off. Like, oh, you had to be invited. Like, you just asked them. Maybe, maybe that's in the mail, you know? And it's like, that's. Maybe that's what happened and you really don't want to break their heart twice. But I just, I. I would. If it was my best friend. I didn't get an invited the wedding. I don't even know if I'd ask. I'd be like, I guess just didn't make the cut this time. Sorry. You know.
- [72:57]
Ryan Rosillo
If it was your best friend, I think it'd be a little weird, but I do think I know you well enough that you would just be like, all right, cool shit. Like, yeah, I don't have to deal with it.
- [73:03]
Ceruti
His numbers are tight.
- [73:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Serutti nailed this, though. Anyone that's going like, where's my invite?
- [73:09]
Danny Kelly
You.
- [73:10]
Ryan Rosillo
You actually had to make a decision. You didn't talk this out with anyone else. You didn't talk it out with yourself and be like, is there a chance I wasn't invited? Well, if I can't definitively answer that, well, I guess I should just ask them where it is. So this is a very aggressive person, and sometimes these people win, but I think they need to experience some losses more based on how hard they push it. And I don't know if she's doing this. But a lot of people who are this aggressive just assume nobody wants to make things awkward so they'll give in to avoid the awkwardness to exactly what you're talking about here in the email. And I'm sick of those people winning all the time. There's a difference, like, between being persistent and hey, it's better to get a no than to never ask. Like, a lot of fundamental things that I think are really important, whether it's relationships or in your career. But she's on your fucking softball team, okay? It's not like you've worked with her forever. It's not like it's a cousin that's always been in the mix that you maybe don't like, but you feel like, hey, I got invited to theirs, I have to invite it. Like, everybody knows that's ever gone through this. There's some deals that you're making. This is somebody who I would look forward to disappointing. I think you need to change your mentality on this one. And I don't know if you're just going to lose the battle to the wife, but I think what you need to say to your wife is like, why are we letting her win something that we don't want to give her? Because we're afraid of it being awkward when she already just dumped an entire topping of awkwardness all over our wedding.
- [74:48]
Ceruti
The appropriate response to you not getting invited but being uncertain about the invite is to ask a friend to ask for you to be like, hey, was so and so invited. I just, I'm trying to get a number of who's, you know, who on the softball team is in and out. And if they tell you that she's not invited, then you have your answer going directly to the person. You're right. That's kind of like weird narcissist behavior.
- [75:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. She needs a loss and you could give it to her. Yeah. Okay. Do I have to fight my co worker? Whoa. Jim Stats 510190205 bench in a poor man's Firkman Cork Mas on the court. I apologize in advance for the length of the story, but I found myself in a strange and unexpected work scenario that calls for a higher level of wisdom than my own. Six months ago, I switched employee or switch employers when an opportunity came along in advance my commercial banking career. Commercial banking. Okay, that's important. I live and work in a moderately populated and vaguely southern midwestern city where business culture is somewhat competitive but nothing crazy. Like in the certain coastal cities, everything's gone great at this new job until about a month ago when someone planned remodel when some planned remodeling began at our headquarters A unique aspect of the bank is the large portion of employees, including myself, who works in a communal working space devoid of offices or cubicles. This is a challenge at first, but I've become used to the environment. I would hate that, by the way, adapting with both a hybrid schedule and the help of private booths and a comp in conference rooms where I can take meetings or sensitive calls. All right, let me move around a little bit maybe. That is great. However, with the recent remodeling, a few longtime employees who were grandfathered into their private office spaces are working in our area until the remodel in theirs is completed. We don't technically have assigned seating, but I, along with co workers have taken to certain spots that we work from nearly 100 win in office one of the temporarily displaced office folk, let's call him Gary, tends to arrive around 7:45 each morning and work until about 4:15, while I, on the other hand, am more of an 8:30-5 guy. Oh. Now Gary and I have had enough interactions to be fairly comfortable around each other, but lately these interactions have begun to revolve around me showing up at around 8:30 and seeing him in my preferred spot at the community table where I sit. At first I shrugged this off until one day Gary happened to come in late after a dentist appointment and I had already arrived and sat in my usual seat. Gary seemed to make a face where he came in, but I ignored it and he didn't say anything. Fast forward a week and the same scenario plays out again. I come in for the day to see my spot empty and take advantage. Gary comes in, notices, except this time I hear him mumble come on fuck. As he slides past to an opening between two female employees he does not seem to particularly get along with. The following week it happens again, but this time he's annoyed enough to say something directly. He tells me it's his preferred spot and that I'm clearly aware of this and would I please just respect his wishes and let him have it. I gently say I've been in that spot since I got to the bank and besides, he has his own office. He asked me if I'm serious in a manner that lets me know he is annoyed because he knows the answer. The following week, now only five days ago, Gary sends me a calendar invite to lunch for that same day. That was out of the blue and not something Gary or I had done before. I don't know what the meaning of this was, nor did I want to accept the invite, but I unfortunately didn't have anything else in my Outlook calendar, a fact that. That Gary could probably see from our shared calendars. Gary and I go to lunch and it doesn't go well. He tries to be nice, asks how it's been going at the bank. We talk around that for a while until he jumps into the seating arrangement issue. I do love the pointless first act of any conflict. You know, somebody calls you or they meet and you're like, what are we going to spend five minutes on? That has nothing to do with why this is actually happening. But anyway, yeah, I think we just get to the second act, folks. All right, here's the deal. You're in my fucking seat, right? So that's what's going to happen here. So the. Wait a minute. So we talk around it. He says he wants to. He wants me to respect his position and preferences as a tenured employee of the bank. I let him know I understand where he's coming from. But that specific seat is strategically beneficial. It allows me to work with my assistant, who sits in the next seat over. When the waiter comes, Gary hesitates when asked if it's one check or two before ultimately saying, two. Thanks. We both pay and walk back to the bank, though I slow up when I fake receiving a phone call. The following day, I receive another calendar invite from Gary, though this time the title is simply settlement, and I have no idea what the reference is. The date is for Friday, April 25th. That's this Friday, with a note that reads, quote, subject to change per recipient's schedule. And the location he sets is the little used rooftop patio area we have access to from the break room. A little later, I run into Gary coming out of the bathroom. He sees me and jabs a finger into my shoulder and asks if I'm going to reply to his invitation. I explain that I'm not sure what the invitation is for. Gary seems taken aback by my confusion and pauses before saying, quote, I think you know what it means. We need to figure this out. If that means what you know it means, then I'm down if you are. Let's read that one again. I think you know what it means. You need to figure this out. And if that means what you know it means, then I'm down if you are. Great opportunity to just cut all of his momentum off and be like, are you trying to make out with me, dude? But I'm glad you didn't do that. So either this coming Friday or a more convenient date of my choosing, my coworker wants to fight me to determine who gets to sit at what seat at a communal table at work. Gary's mid-50s, 20 year employee of the bank, and he's a producer. I've also heard he can be an HR nightmare. Sounds like that checks out. Which, okay, yes, that makes sense. But this guy has good rapport with senior management and makes the bank a lot of money. I have no idea why he'd be willing to risk something like a lawsuit or arrest over something so trivial. But I'm still left with the question of what to do. I know what you're thinking. Obviously, you don't fight an insane person over seat preferences at work. Further, this should blow over in another couple months when the remodel is complete and Gary returns to his office. But Gary's opinion of others at the bank is important as well, and that gives me pause. He seems both crazy enough to actually try to fist fight me over this issue or bully me. If I relent for not being principled enough to stand up for myself, I am obviously leading towards pacifism. But I'm also shocked and annoyed by this absurd gesture from Gary. And I'm not entirely ruling out just taking it back to the old days to settle it. Oh, saddle up. This is partly because I do have some martial arts training and would not intend to hurt Gary, but merely force him to submit or quit fighting once he realizes beating me is not in the cards. So what do you think? Do I have to fight my co worker? Really long email. Kind of worth it, though.
- [81:38]
Ceruti
Just so you know, I am a yellow belt. So do you still want to send out that calendar invite?
- [81:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you want me to respect you tapping out? I'll respect it, but if you don't tap, I'm not gonna give up. I'm not gonna relent. You could just let him sit in the fucking chair, man. You know, he's been there 20 years. You've talked about him being important. He is getting there before you. He's been displaced. Your whole thing about it's more convenient for me to sit next to their assistant. Your assistants? Why can't you just ask your two assistants to sit in the chair that he doesn't want to sit in? And all this like, I don't. I don't really know what this is about. And I actually understand he may be unhinged. It sounds like if he actually wants to fight you on the rooftop like that's in the corporate world that's frowned upon. I don't, I don't know what's going on here with the younger guy and the chair thing. 10 out of 10 times the older guy that, as you say, is a big time producer. And so even if he's irrational at times and tough to deal with, like, he cannot fathom that you're doing this. And so it isn't about the chair anymore. It's about you being like a younger dude that he feels like is trying to fuck with him all the time. I understand that it was your chair before and then it sucks when somebody sits, but maybe I'm being a little too old school in the hierarchy of an office. But if he had a private office and then he's getting in there before you, like, he doesn't understand any of this. He didn't know that you were sitting in there. Right. He only sees this as you fucking with him in the times that you can sit there when he's not there. And like I said, I also don't understand how you can't just get with the assistants that work with you, be like, let's find a different spot and put this whole thing to bed. Sounds like Seruti wants to fight. Oh, okay. What's the principle?
- [83:34]
Ceruti
Well, it's, it's your seat. Technically. This, this, this goes back to this whole shift and it's kind of, I think we're getting away from this too, but like this whole shift to like the open office concept where yeah, everyone could just mingle and be free flowing and the creativity is just going to be, it's dumb. People need structure. People need structure, places to sit. They need cubicles to sit. Yeah, it might be mind numbing, but like this now we, now people are having to deal with this and.
- [84:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but this is because of a remodel. So this isn't like a new corporate shift and what they're doing, like, this guy's an office guy. So he thinks like I go from office to now getting to sit in whatever chair I want to and he doesn't understand that you've been sitting there that whole time. And he also doesn't care either.
- [84:17]
Ceruti
Well, that's the thing. He is. Did he, he's basically checkmated you in the game of like chicken, crazy chicken. Right? Like, you don't. What move do you have? Do you accept the invite and then no show? Like, is that a better. I don't, I don't even know like how further, how much further you kind of take this because he has kind of trapped you. He holds all of the cards as far as just seniority and people liking him and even your future career growth. And he also is crazy enough to potentially want to fight you on a deck at the, at work. So I think he just, I think you just kind of take the l here. Yeah, the seat to me. I mean, you know me, I'm kind of passive. I probably wouldn't really care either way. I would just sit somewhere else and maybe you can call me a, you know, a bitch. But I, that's just how. What I would do. I don't really care. I, I don't know that. But I don't know, there's like another move that's good for you and your future here because he's. If you fight this guy, you're, you're fucked. If you maybe not, you think, well.
- [85:13]
Worgon
I don't see you're in good shape if you don't fight back, that's a win.
- [85:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but you want to be the.
- [85:19]
Ceruti
Guy that gets, I don't know. Then all the other senior managers are like, wow, like that was our higher performing guy. And I don't know, you're just never going to be looked at in the same. I think the way you want at work. If you get punched and then the guy that everybody likes, who's a type, who's a high performer, gets fired, that's probably not a place you want to be at.
- [85:36]
Ryan Rosillo
I think this comes down to like two different things. I think my age is probably seeping in here a bit. And if I'm trying to totally understand the older guy, like, again, it's important to understand he never knew that you were sitting there. He only sees you, is with him right now. Okay, so like, even though your email lays out, like, I understand your approach to it, he doesn't understand any of this. He thinks that you were just out to mess with him. And if he's this irrational, easily agitated, then this is where we're at right now with this. But there is the legend status move. Are you sure he can't beat you up? I mean, I don't know that you ever really know that about anybody. Right. I mean, not everybody, but you get the point. A lot of surprises out there, you know, quiet. Kid has been wrestling for a really long time. Three older brothers, Dad's been out of the picture. Stepdad named Jeff, doesn't. Can't play catch with him, you know, and that guy just doesn't even wait. You know, you get sitting there, you're getting mouthy outside of shellbacks. And it's like, next thing you know, it's like, oh, that guy didn't even say anything. So I think you have to be very honest with yourself. You did share your martial arts training, but are you sure you're going to win? Because if you're sure and you can win and you want to go like Clint Eastwood and be like, hey, just so you know, like, when it's about to happen, like, no one here is going to hr.
- [87:05]
Worgon
Are we sure he's not just going to show up? And this guy's got like a custody agreement drafted out, like, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, it's my seed. Tuesday, Thursday, it's yours.
- [87:13]
Ryan Rosillo
We don't know that. Yeah, that's all too. We.
- [87:15]
Worgon
We have this type of seating in the World Trade center office, which is insane, but shouts to our co worker Katz Blaine, who just wanted the same seat every day, and she just started leaving stuff slowly and slowly. She just made it like her desk that nobody else could sit in.
- [87:29]
Ceruti
It's a good move.
- [87:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Okay. Because if you were to slap this guy and he goes to the ground and you're like, the chair is mine. You will be. They're going to hang your jersey in there. All right.
- [87:49]
Danny Heifetz
You're fired, though.
- [87:51]
Ceruti
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
- [87:52]
Worgon
You're going to be looking for a new job.
- [87:55]
Ryan Rosillo
You might be if you want to keep playing this dance with a guy in senior management over a chair. I don't think this is. I don't think this is a principal thing as much as it's our emailer's not like, I understand why you feel like you're being displaced. He is not doing that to mess with you. He is assuming that everybody understands why he would be in there and the fact that he's getting in there before you every day and that any opportunity that he's not there, you're you. He thinks you're just disrupting his deal the entire time. So you guys don't like that. You don't like that. If you.
- [88:31]
Ceruti
Maybe this is a generational thing. Yeah, I don't know. I.
- [88:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, but back to the physical part. You don't think if you could handle yourself physically that there wouldn't be some long term benefit, that you're the guy that slapped Gary on the roof patio over a chair. And then guess what? When Gary never sits in that chair again, the story slowly leaks out. Because you probably, you know, be like, I went up there. I actually. Big, big taekwondo go Taekwondo guy and, you know, little hip toss. Got him down. Faked a crotch stomp. It's my chair now. You don't think that. You don't like. None of you guys like that, huh?
- [89:16]
Worgon
How's this guy pulling tenure and then asking for two separate checks, too? Like, if you're this higher, you got.
- [89:23]
Ryan Rosillo
To be covering the bill because he's in his chair.
- [89:25]
Ceruti
Yeah, that was just a. That was a message.
- [89:27]
Danny Heifetz
Pull Taekwondo hip drops on. Who.
- [89:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Was this?
- [89:32]
Danny Heifetz
That simp Was this. That, like, what, Simies? You just like fighting over chairs? What's going on?
- [89:36]
Ryan Rosillo
No, this is the podcast. Danny High Fitz has jumped in, so. No, we got an emailer.
- [89:44]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, did I come in in the middle of life advice?
- [89:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Yes.
- [89:47]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, I should get out of here. I thought it was 11:30. I'm gonna leave.
- [89:52]
Ceruti
You're good.
- [89:54]
Danny Heifetz
I'll come back.
- [89:56]
Ryan Rosillo
You're good. Maybe we leave that in. Okay, good. Time to end it then. Thanks to Wargon. Thanks to Ceruti, Jonathan Frius, we are a video podcast now on the Spotify app. Our YouTube page. Ryan Rosalu page. Check that out for extra content. And we will be on Friday this week, not Thursday. So I'll give you all the playoff stuff. And recapping the first round of the.
- [90:17]
Worgon
NFL draft, they were gonna name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it. So they named me Michael J.
- [90:44]
Ryan Rosillo
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