← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Knicks or Nuggets — More Concerning Comeback? Plus, Game 1 Breakdowns, Steph’s Run, and Stopping Jokic with Richard Jefferson
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Ryan Rosillo
You're listening to the Ryan Marcillo podcast presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 100 GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com on today's episode of the podcast, we go deep. Not as deep as some of those three point attempts from the Celtics, but a great comeback from the Knicks on the road and the Nuggets on the road. What did we learn from those matchups? We'll talk a little bit more on those games and the Game one wins by the road team with Richard Jefferson, the voice of the NBA Finals on ABC and espn. We're just going to go through a bunch of stuff with Jefferson, just some basketball stuff, all of these series and then his Mount Rushmore teammates because this dude has an all time teammate list and life advice. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmesan delivered. A cabana that's a no, but a banana that's a yes. A nice tan. Sorry, no, but a box fan? Happily, yes. A day of sunshine? No. A box of fine wines, yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We have two more game ones in the books. Second round of the NBA playoffs and all the road teams keep winning. New York and Boston and obviously Denver and that thrilling win at Oklahoma City. I'd start by saying there are two games that through the course of the first two hours of the games are I'm sitting there thinking okay, this is probably going to go the way I thought it would go. Boston's up huge and it felt like OKC was in control and that's not what happened to close out both of those. So let's go through some of the stuff I thought was interesting and what ultimately happened. So a Knicks defense that finished 13th in the NBA that felt like where the conversation would end on whether or not the Knicks could win an NBA title and whether or not they could beat any of the special teams which they struggled against so much during the regular season. A team that has Brunson going up against Drew Holiday, Derrick White, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum on the perimeter when he can't get Porzingis, or more importantly last night, Horford and Switches, which is going to look to do every time the bigs are out there, especially with Horford. Although Horford, I still think at this age holds up a lot better than you could ever imagine he was going to be doing. That was going to be a much more daunting task than switching into Beasley Hardaway Jr. Schroeder, who fights but doesn't necessarily have the size, and Cade, who's just, you know, not exactly even with his size. Somebody that you're afraid of defensively. So that was like one part of the matchup. You're like, this is entirely a different level of a challenge here for Brunson. And also the cat part of this, where Cat can't play off a Porzingis, he can't play off a Horford, the same way he could play off a Duran against the Pistons. And knowing that because the Celtics are very hunt happy in their approach to offensive basketball, that cat was going to be brought up into all of these actions over the course of him being out there for two hours. So there were some real basketball things that we've already seen out play this way. Like, okay, but this defense that finished 13th defensively in the regular season was 11th defensively after the All Star break and only one point worse per 100 possessions than Boston's defense. And where Boston finished after the All Star break, even though Boston just kind of offensively smoked everyone and finished, I think it was like an absurd 20 plus wins because one team played 28 games, the other team played 27 games. But I think there's another part of the Knicks conversation that goes all the way back to June, when the Knicks had made the trade for Mikhail Bridges. And when that happened, Bill and I, I don't know if it was a scheduled podcast or we did an emergency pod for the Bridges trade because it was right around the draft where you're like, okay, the concept of Bridges with this team. The hope would be that at Least he provides them. Another really nice perimeter defender to go with OG to go with the heart sprinkles. And just his tenacious hearts effort, man. I mean he finds a way with this team. It's like I'm always going to be the fifth option offensively. I'm not a great shooter. Teams are going to be playing off of me all the time. How else can I impact this game? And it's just sheer aggression. Especially when you're talking about how heart is just relentless. Like you cannot lose him when you're trying to get defensive rebounds. You can't lose him because he's going to make you pay every single time you forget about him. So at least on paper, with the weak link of Brunson and Hart, defensively you're like, maybe Bridges just gives you just more depth or more options here against all of these perimeter guys. For Boston, it was one of the first things you would think about. So those are just some of the initial thoughts of the series. And then you're like, what if with all that it's irrelevant. What if Boston were to miss an NBA playoff record, 45 three point attempts? Because that's exactly what happened last night. They took 60, they missed 45. You already know that. At 72, 52, Boston's up 20. At that point I was like, Boston should be up 35 points in this because. And I'm going to go over it because I went through the misses again this morning. There's just a lot of really good looks. At 619 in the third quarter when it's 72, 52, Cat, who had a rough night, picks up his fourth personal foul. They bring in Mitchell Robinson, who was three attendant free throws last night. Cause the Celtics were hacking him and it worked out that way. But the Knicks closed the quarter on a 23:12 run. As it was happening, I'll admit, I was wondering, is this because Cat isn't out there or the bad version of Cat that you know is going to happen in a lot of playoff games for some of the best players in this league. Right. But he just couldn't get it going. And he's being worked defensively here a little bit. And they're getting good looks even when they're missing against some of the Cat switches on the perimeter. I think it'd be a little unfair to say that it was the, the run was totally, you know, motivated by Cat not being out there. Because I don't. I just didn't really feel like that, even though the thought crossed my mind. Because it's a really simple thing to look at because Cat comes back in at the start of the fourth quarter and they're down 84.75, and four and a half minutes later, it's tied back up at 86. So I, you know, I don't think it's a straight. Cat wasn't in there. The argument could be made defensively. Having Mitchell in there just was better for the comeback if Boston was going to keep selling for threes. So I watched all the misses again this morning. This is just one man's opinion of the 45. I wrote down that 38 were good looks, maybe seven bad ones. And even bad, it was just so absurd. As I was writing through all of the attempts, like, okay, I guess that one's kind of bad because even some of the ones that I think are good, maybe a little deeper, a little quicker in the shot clock. I've said that for a couple of years now with Boston with this three put out, three point output that they've had, that there's always a couple, maybe seven or so a game, seven to ten, a game where I'm like, that just felt like really, really quick. But that's. That's what you're asking these guys to do. So you can't get mad at the ones that are a little bit quicker, a little bit deeper when the entire philosophy is, that's exactly what we want to do. We want to take as many as possibly can, we want to be quicker with it, we want to have more possessions. So we have to all kind of accept all that stuff. And even on the bad ones, Tatum going for a two for one at the end of the first quarter. I don't like the 2 for 1 first one. I just, I always feel like there's too many teams that just settle for awful shots, but they're like, cool. We get the extra possession. Even if there are times where I'm like, yeah, you took it at like 29 in the clock, so you're gonna get it back, what, maybe with four or five seconds. And then what kind of, kind of shot are you getting that? So now you have like two bad shots instead of get getting one good one. But again, sometimes it's just the possession math. Jaylen Brown at the end of the first half, like, is that a bad one where he's catching it deep and he and Brunson are kind of fighting like, that's not really even that bad. So the other thing of the 45 misses, I'm telling, like, probably 40 of them were open. So I even counted a couple that were open. Being like I was a little quick. That's, that's in that gray area of the ones I don't like. So it's what they do. We know this, this is not new. They were 3 of 28 on threes from when it was 75, 55. So that's your other 20 point lead. 72, 52, 75, 55. They close 3 of 28 from 3 after that 20 point margin. It's the second lowest field goal percentage in a game for the Celtics in the Missoula era, which is a short one, but still Boston the regular season, 1.21 points per possession. They were 0.85 last night. That is a massive, massive swing. Now was it all about missed threes? No. I don't want to take anything away from Brunson who once again is proving he might be the best closer in the NBA which seems impossible for anybody to be able to do it at that size. But he hit for 11 straight points over a five minute stretch where he just seemed unguardable. He had a great look on the inbounds on the game winner. Would have been fitting if he had put that one in. Considering what he has meant to this team for the last two years and these moments that he's had in the playoffs and reminded of it again against Detroit. I think it would be taking away. It just said it's only about 3 point shooting variants be taken away from OG who I've never felt better than I do right now about Anunobi. I love this guy. Not that I hated him, but I just felt like there was limitations with him offensively where if it ended up with his, you know, hands on the ball a little late in the shot clock. I didn't know that. I always loved the way it was going to look. But it's not only his shooting where he's averaging more points per game in the playoffs than he ever has in his career through this run in 25. It's the shooting, it's the defensive intensity where, you know, no one really wants to drive at him. Of all the options you have to attack if you're Boston and the Knicks, oh geez. The last guy that you actually want to go against and even when Cade was working to get him switched off of him throughout that series, the, the number of possessions where you would see OG fighting back into the possession to try to get some kind of contest and bring help to it, like the effort level from him has been Incredible. And especially when you're going up against Boston, you're like, look, when they start chucking them, get out and leak, get out and run, because your momentum is going to be going against theirs. You're going to be able to get out and transition. And he's just a nightmare dealing with it. Like, how many times he finishes at the rim, where it feels like, is that going to be a good contest? Is there too much traffic for him to even go up? And then it seems like he finishes that stuff more often than other guys do. So if you were talking about just the 45 missed threes today, I think he'd be missing some of the stuff with the Knicks that I absolutely loved and the fight to stay in it against a Boston team that they'd lost to four times in the regular season. But the settling part of the three point shooting from Boston is the part that's inexcusable. And Jaylen Brown talked about it after the game. It's like, hey, when it's not going in, like, you need to start figuring out. I'm paraphrasing drives, get to the free throw line. And Brown was the only guy was doing that at times. And look, he had missed threes as well that you don't love. But go back to Game 3 against Orlando and Jalen Brown when they were having that disastrous third quarter where I think they shot, what, 3 of 17, and even into the fourth quarter, Brown felt like the only guy on the team was like, enough of this shit. Like, let's attack. Like, we may not make the layup, but we have to show the defense something else because now we're just getting into the settling mode. And then you start realizing, like, this lead is slipping away and those three start feeling a lot tighter than the looseness of the first half of just like, yeah, who cares? We're boss. We're just going to do all these things. I think the Tatum part of the game last night is. Is pretty bad. You know, again, I love the guy, but he was not good. 5:32 to go in the fourth quarter. We can run through the possessions here. Tatum looking for those switches, Hunting the better defensive matchups. Goes at cat, Mrs. A3, switches into cat again, then switches into Brunson, settles for a three, misses it. Offensive rebound ends up Tatum against Brunson. He has OG to his right, so maybe he's worried. But again, Boston spacing is. Is supposed to prevent the help from the corner. He's just missed a couple. He's got Brunson again. And he misses another three. He gets a switch against Mitchell. You know, granted, Mitchell's a different guy than Cat in that spot, but he decides not attack him. Misses another three, he finally takes a mid range congrats in a switch against Brunson. Turnaround airball. The only time he had to make from that point on was he got Bridges deep in a switch right at the hoop and he made the layup. But at that point, it kind of felt like everything was a little too late before the inbound where Bridges just attacked the basketball of Jaylen Brown. Granted, they were up three, so they were probably going to foul there. So it made it a little bit more complicated for Brown to try to figure out a way to make the catch and then still get free for a three point shot. But prior to that, Tatum probably had. We're asking him now to take a bad three, but an opportunity to get one off, knowing that the Knicks one fell up three, which again we talk about a little later in the second game. So there are all of these possessions where you're watching with Tatum. You'd be like, you're going to keep doing this over and over again. I think last night was, and I remember I did this big rant after an Atlanta Hawks stretch where the Celtics, I think, lost to him twice in the regular season last year where it was just settle, settle, settle. And you're like, is this approach going to come back to bite Boston at all? And then guess what happens? They win an NBA championship. So you feel like I am. I can't actually criticize this approach with everything, but last night was just the embodiment of, of anybody that's watched the Celtics regularly the last two years going, is this potentially a flaw? And it's hard to say that it is when this team wins a title 11 months ago. But that was it. That was the, the. It's not really the blueprint. But that was the two and a half hours of, oh, this sucks, but they're going to argue shooting variants. And the shot quality is like, I know Missoula mentioned it. Hey, shot quality was terrific process. All of the different stuff, they're not wrong about any of it. I think it's just in those closing moments with Tatum, you're like, hey, you want to try anything else? And it was like, no, I don't. Okay. More dramatic, perhaps even Denver's win against OKC happening on the last second shot from Aaron Gordon. So it played out early the way I kind of expected it to the defense from OKC all these Incredible moments, the plays that these guys are making, how smart they are, all the variables that they have to throw at this Denver team, which can feel like a one man band at times, but it was not the case last night. But I just have a bunch of plays here that I, I love. There was a play where Jokic is on the left block. He's got Chad on him. Caruso comes down to double him. Westbrook goes to cut off of the double, thinking like, you know, there's probably a, some kind of pass from YIC here. Jokic is thinking the exact same thing, yet Caruso is already a step ahead of both and realizing, I'm going to show the double, I'm going to come and then Westbrook's going to cut and then I'm going to jump backwards and intercept this pass. It was nuts. It was so beautifully played by Caruso. I was like, okay. And that's the moment where Y is going to be thinking, I didn't think he was going to do that. There was another play where Murray was just way too casual at times against this team. And that is the one thing I've said all year about, ok, well, it's not the only thing I've said about okc, but when you're going up against them defensively, you cannot screw around. Murray loses it with just a casual patrol the ball and Caruso knocks it away. Murray, a pass to the left side in the first half, just really slow regular season speed. Caruso steals it. First play of the second half. All right, Denver's in it. The score is not certainly insurmountable, as we learned later on. First thing set the tone here. A bit like the Van Vliet four point play at the start of game six, Golden State, where Golden State's like hanging on by thread. They're, they're obviously behind in that game. And then you come out, you're like, all right, fourth quarter, let's it's go time. In this case, it's the third quarter. Murray's first action, first pass, not even, he's not even doing anything other than I call it an entry pass. But it was like pass a three point line. It's so slow and just casual and Caruso jumps that. You're like, all right guys, you're gonna have to be aware that Caruso is a step ahead of all of the stuff that you're doing. There was a transition pass in the first half from Jokic where you know how quarterbacks will throw different passes against routes where linebackers and coverage and you're like, the linebacker's never going to make a play on this football. Maybe not apples to apples here, but Jokic of all people, throwing a transition pass and Dort just jumps up and steals it midair. It happens so quick. You're basically thinking like, did that actually just happen? Chet had a block on Jokic. Chad had another block on a Jokic lob to Michael Porter Jr. Where he just comes in and wrecks the entire thing. So there was another player. Michael Porter Jr. Is underneath the rim and he wasn't very good last night, but they still got the win, obviously, but Michael Porter Jr's just hanging down. It's like, hey man, you don't have this much time against this team. He just gets smashed at the rim. So a lot of the defensive stuff that you expect from OKC on display last night? 67, 54, 102, 90 OKCs up. Both those moments, I'm like, this feels right. A lot of different looks for Jokic. The versatility that we've talked about. They, they did a bunch of different stuff, both teams defensively and trying to figure out how to slow down things that they didn't like. They had Jokic on Caruso at times to help with Christian Brown on sga. They had Hart on Hartenstein. Know why I described it that way on Jokic. But if they had Caruso on Murray and they go to the two man game with Denver, then they would get Caruso on Jokic. And that was something that they didn't want because in one switch, Jokic just absolutely mauls Caruso down. So immediately after that they put Jalen Williams on Murray, knowing that they worked a two man switch again and at least Jalen Williams physically able to hold up a little bit more against jokic. So at 113, 102, SGA's just hit a three and now it's starting to feel like, okay, they're going to put these guys away. Despite the fact that Jokic is on pace for a night where he would end up with 42, 22 and 6. I mean, the nightly stat lines from this guy, again, this isn't new, but the fact that it was a 42 and 22 where he had to fight for everything until the very last second to keep his team in this game again, incredible stuff from this, this dude who's not going to win the mvp and I don't want to make last night, it's one playoff game about the, the MVP debate and all that kind of stuff. I mean, even as a Jokic voter, I think it's a little unfair to be like, see, I try to tell you guys the entire time, but if you did it, I wouldn't be mad at somebody else for doing it. I just think after one playoff game it feels a little ridiculous. Because look, SGA wasn't really the problem offensively. It was the others. And the others that I think led to their demise in the second round of the playoffs last year. And I'm not saying this is going to happen again because this, the seasoning, even though it's, it's newer for chat, we know what Jalen Williams numbers were last year and just feeling like even if you look at the overall numbers, like, oh, it wasn't really that bad. Well, in the moment it didn't look all that great. But I'm going to run through a couple different plays here because Denver really started to send more help to sga. And I think that's some of the stuff that people have talked about with this approach offensively for the Thunder is what happens when teams just completely sell out to try to bottle up SGA and then the other guys are going to have to make plays. You would think, think based on the way this roster is built, there's enough options outside of these SGA doubles. Well, those options didn't work late in the game last night. That's what led to this massive comeback. At 4:43, Caruso is left totally wide open. A three point line on the right side because of a double sga. Sga. At that point they did a few different things. They had Aaron Gordon on him to try to keep other people out of the switches. Caruso misses that three, they double SGA again. Jalen Williams, he's so open, he was almost hesitant about it. At 3:33, he misses the three. SGA has comes off the ball because they're trying to avoid him. Bringing it over half court and just going right into a double team. So they try something a little different. Have a pin down screen for him. The second defender still kind of hanging around. Brown. Chet's in the corner for a three at 205. It was a good look. He misses that one. SGA had another play where there were three guys on him. Not like a full blown triple team, but it was two were shading. Somebody rotates over, Westbrook comes up again. So now there's like a second defender that's in the space. So SGA doesn't really have room to take the shot that we all want. That guy to take so 48 seconds. Kicks it to the left side. Jalen Williams drives, tries to hit the layup. It was a really tough layup. Like it didn't. They didn't look good from the start. You're like you're going in there. But it's something that he kind of had to do to get aggressive and he misses that one. So those are four misses with the last one being tough, the first three being really good looks where no one knocked down a shot. And if that were to happen over the course of a series of thunder, as much as I love this team, like that's. It feels ridiculous to, hey, that could happen a bunch of times and they're going to lose in the second round. Like, I don't think that. But it happened last night. And then of course up one shed at the free throw line in a huge moment. Did not look comfortable at all. Misses the free throw. Aaron Gordon comes down, hits the game winning three. So I think option wise, OKC felt like they were almost experimenting in game one of the playoff game. There was a moment with Dagnal where I thought it's funny because he's trying to figure out maybe what he likes or what he doesn't like. Both guys were doing, both coaches were doing a lot of different stuff with the defensive assignments and how they were changing the defensive strategy. So it made it a lot of fun to watch. But I'll admit at one point, and this may feel a little unfair, I was kind of like, it's almost like Dagnaut's coaching is if he's losing the game and searching for something where this experimental approach that they've been so adamant about during the regular say, hey, what's going to. Which groups work, which pairing works? Are we a double big team? Are we going to stay single with Chad or Hartenstein or, you know, what do we like here? What's our best perimeter? Defensive stuff? What's the best stuff off of SGA? And they, they still almost won 70 games, tweaking things along the way. So I don't know if there was an element of that with the staff. It's like, let's, let's look at game one and it felt like they were going to win the whole thing or at least just the game. I'm not talking about a title here. The size part of this is supposed to make a difference for OKC because we know last year what the biggest knock on them was, the rebounding. Their biggest flaw last season was the rebounding rate. They were 28th in the NBA this year they were 19th. But they're going up against Denver, who is the best rebounding percentage team of any team in NBA and have been the best rebounding team in the playoffs through eight games so far and it showed up. Denver won this game with rebounds, 60 to 63 to 43. So a plus 20 edge on the rebounding numbers there and then 21 to 13 on offensive rebounds. So I think there's a lot of side to side stuff that I liked with OKC. Even though SGA's look, they're going to run it straight at you. He's going to start from the top, he's going to get to his spot, he's going to get free throws, he's going to score a million points. Even if you could look at the overall playoff numbers, I just don't know what to do with any of the Memphis numbers because it didn't really even matter against them. I don't think SGA was the problem even if he had a few misses there late. But every time I would watch OKC and if Denver were loading up on the SGA side, I'd be like, that's your option. On the other side, like that's a great option. Look how open that guy is. And it just didn't work. It didn't work for him last night. So also looking at the bench. Well, I guess I could stay here with the starter. Last couple points, Jalen Williams, 5 of 22, 9 for 3.5 points per shot. Abysmal numbers from him probably scares a few of you Thunder fans out there. Being like, is he still not going to be ready for this moment? Let's not go there. After only one game, Caruso is 7 to 12, but the rest of the bench made three shots. For a Thunder team that we always like their depth a lot. And I'm going to give it to Westbrook. I keep waiting on the Westbrook game where it's a liability and it hasn't happened. There's I. It'd be. It'd be wrong to say, hey, there's so much more good than bad because there just hasn't been. I mean, look, there's some defensive stuff with him. There was a two turnover stretch where it ended up not being a second turnover because it was a kickball. Forcing the passes a little bit. I always worry about his emotions and the energy of the moment and him feeling like he's getting revenge on these teams. I don't know why he'd feel like he has to get revenge against okc, the way he would feel after the Clippers, the Lakers. I don't even know if Houston's part of that equation anymore. So knowing some stuff from the regular season where it felt like if Westbrook missed a couple threes early in a game, he'd be hesitant to take the open looks again. Knowing at times where he's in such a hurry to get it back to Jokic, to show that he's deferring to the star, that some of the passes are just like what, like you don't have to get it back to him in that spot. The concerns I would have about teams playing off him and then it's screwing up Denver spacing, whatever those are and whatever those those minor details are about the, the negative side of the Westbrook thing, my expectation was that they would show themselves and be more damaging in bigger moments than they haven't. So credit to him for I think the best thing you could say about him and why he's such or has been such a huge bonus for Denver right now is that he is never in these playoff games thinking that he doesn't belong out there and sometimes that gets the best of him. But so far it's been a huge, huge part and it just a rewarding factor of him being out there for these minutes. Because remember, the whole reason he's on this team is he was cheap and they didn't have a lot of room to sign anybody and he was available and now he's playing major, major playoff minutes as Denver goes up 10 in the series. The Ryan Rosillo Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are finally here, and there's no better way to be a part of the action than with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. After another competitive season, the top teams are ready to battle their way through the playoff bracket in hopes of taking home the championship. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with FanDuel and NBA profit Boost. Simply make your bet, activate your boost and go for even bigger winnings. Okay, let's find you something here. Looking back at what the Game one numbers were, they were big lines. Cavs were minus nine and a half. It's now seven and a half in Game two. Maybe feeling a bit like, hey, the Pacers are a little closer with this Cav team than you think. Boston, I think was nine and a half minus the Knicks. Game two is minus ten and a half. So no adjustment on that one, OKC was close to minus nine and a half ten minus minus eleven. Now in Game two, the one thing I was looking at here is Golden State just going to be a little more worn out after that Houston series considering Minnesota's been sitting around. You can also, you know, theorize the other way and say Golden State's just still like they're at peak sweat right now and Minnesota is going to be lagging a bit. And there's also, I think a lot of times too like that Game one is the one to get for what is perceived to be the lesser team. So a lot of times game ones can be the most misleading game in the entire series. So having been through all that stuff and throwing it at you, I don't have any of those things. What I am looking at is Andrew Nemhardt over 20 and a half combined points, rebounds and assist. That's minus 108 right now. Now why are you going with that? Well, it could be a little bit of the tendency of Halliburton to defer so you're not playing against another like next to a point guard who's going to want to know shoot 30 times. You also could be looking at something defensively here where Nemhardt's the guy that they're going to be leaving a little bit now. He shot 7 to 10 and lit it up. But let's just combine the points, rebounds and assist and where Nemhardt has been and compare it to that 20 and a half number that FanDuel is giving you right now going through the Milwaukee series combined 26. All right, so I'm giving the combined points, rebounds and assist number here. Game two against Milwaukee combined 26 game three total dud 12 but every other game 25 combined in game four, game five that's 2626 combined. And then in game he didn't even have a rebound in game one against Cleveland but he had 23.6 assists. So that's 29. So he's been over that number easily except for just that one bad game against Milwaukee. So the bet there is Nemhardt over 20 and a half combined points, rebounds and assists. Don't just be a spectator this postseason. Head to FanDuel.com Ryan R Y E N to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more must be 21 and older and present in select states are 18 plus and present in D.C. opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens and restrictions apply including any token expiration and Max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. If you're in B2B marketing, you want to make sure you're not wasting your ads on the wrong people. I remember when I was younger and I would watch games on television and I thought, man, a lot of ads about retirement, who's this for? And then I got older and I understood it. I was like, oh, now it makes sense. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers based on job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue, all the professionals you need to reach in one place. Stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign so you can try it out yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com rrs that's LinkedIn.com rrs Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. Fired up to introduce my, I guess, neighbor? Sort of. Richard Jefferson, former NBA player, Six man teammate.
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Richard Jefferson
Six man teammate.
- [30:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Six man teammate for the best weekend of the beach out here. And also, you know, kind of cool to say that. One of the voices of the NBA now for ESPN with the finals coming up here. So I'm happy for you. Congrats on all the success and moving up this year. Good to see you.
- [31:10]
Richard Jefferson
Thank you, man. I've been very, very blessed. Been very, very fortunate. When you say it, that, that does feel weird. Like as a little kid watching basketball and all of a sudden to be like, bro, you're, you're one of the voices of the game of basketball. Like that's trippy that. Thank you for bringing that to my top of my brain at 9am this morning.
- [31:32]
Ryan Rosillo
It's funny because you're making the rounds because the video has been out of Draymond's first make, first bucket of his career. And you were on the warriors with him and he got a technical after the first make and you're immediately like, hey man, let's before we dig into all the playoff stuff, I knew I was going to bring it up, but I just couldn't help myself. What was that like? And obviously it was a sign of things to come.
- [32:00]
Richard Jefferson
You know what I had Gotten to know Draymond, I knew a little bit about from college, but I know Tom Izzo guy. So he gets there and I'm year. I think I'm year 12 or 13. My back is fucked up. So I'm in full. Like, I'm in full. I'm just going to be a veteran role. I got young Clay, I got Steph, who was. Hadn't quite grown and established himself to be that guy yet. He was still dealing with the ankle surgeries and stuff. But Harrison Barnes, Kent Bazemore, I had this young group of talented guys that I was like, fuck it. If this is how I go out mentoring these guys for a year, cool. So I get to know Draymond a little bit, and first shot he hits, he's screaming and yelling, Gets a technical, and I. He gets technical, whatever. But he was like, nah, I got you. I'm like, no, Dre, this is who you have to be, bro. I like, I know enough about this game. You got to be a mean, like, not dirty, but a mean motherfucker. That's who you have to be. If you do that and play with that intensity now, you got to control it. Then you're going to be. You're going to be in this league. Because he's a second round pick just trying to make it. If you out here not like, instilling fear or people being like, oh, here comes this guy. Think Pat Bev. Pat Bev is like, I'm trying to prove that I belong here, even though I know I belong. So Draymond, now, he's gotten a little outside of the realm at times, and that's where I feel like every once in a while I'll text him or I can put a message out via social, like, dream. You know, I'm the person that's saying, this is who you have to be, but with that power, you also have to regulate it, I would say better than he has at some times, but most of the time, they won four championships with him. You know.
- [33:49]
Ryan Rosillo
What do you feel when you watch Steph continue this run at 37? Because you're right. You were there for his third year, and it was like, okay, this guy might be pretty good. And then that third year to fourth year jump was like, oh, okay, this is. This is going to be serious. So let's start with what you see now and what you feel, knowing that you were there at the beginning.
- [34:09]
Richard Jefferson
I obviously, I didn't know. No one knows. Like, I had Jokic at the end of my career. Also, I did not see three out of four MVPs and possible five straight MVPs. Like, I didn't see that, but I saw something special. Like you're different than the other group now. How they build around you, how they maximize you if they decide that you're the guy that they're going to maximize. Right? Because Steph, that third to fourth year, they were still trying to figure out he took a. He took the same type of deal that Ty Lawson got. Let's put it in perspective. Ty Lawson and Steph signed about the same number. When you look at like, like salary around that space, I think it was four years, whatever. That year Steph breaks the three point record. Now that year Steph is healthy. And now they start to build and being like, okay, we can build around this guy. And then they started to add the pieces to maximize him. And then he just kept blossoming and growing to like, what on earth. I think with Steph there's a joy that he plays with. And I'm not around Steph very often, but we did interview him. I just did the Game 6 Houston Rockets, Golden State warriors just did that game. And Steph, gracious enough because not a lot of superstars do or ever have. He greets us with me, Mike Doris, our producer, Tim Corgan. He comes and sits down like I'm talking about. We're sitting in the hallway in chairs to be respectful. He walks in, sits and talks with us for five minutes, walks out. To break up a superstar is kind of routine in those moments. So for us it's always, how can we be as accommodating as possible to be gracious and say thank you, whatever. It works around your schedule. We're cool with that. Whether it's three minutes or eight minutes, we'll take it. Step walks in, has asked a bunch of questions. He is still a funny, funny little shit. Like he is like the joy in which he just has always had makes it special. I'll tell you a story. So they're give. I believe he was up for the community, like, like the teammate assist the teammate of the year award. Are you familiar with this? Did he win it? I'm not sure, but he was up for it. Mike Breen starts telling the story about it, about, do you know the story about the guy? Blah, blah. And I'm sitting over here next to Stephen. I'm sitting next to Steph and he's. And he's like, he's like, yeah, you know, more story. And I have no idea the story about the teammate of the Year award. And I have no idea. Steph is such. We'll keep it such a little smart ass brain's here, Steph's here. We're both looking at him and he goes, richard has no idea about the story. And everyone just starts laughing because I had no idea. He's like, Richard's going to need some follow up questions. Just we're sitting here before a big game and he can just laugh and joke and like mess with people. That's where he's a special, special person and definitely a next level superstar because not every superstar has that type of charisma and just gravity.
- [37:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, he did win teammate of the year this year. It's one of the lesser known.
- [37:09]
Richard Jefferson
Do you know the story? Do you know the story?
- [37:13]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't believe that I do.
- [37:14]
Richard Jefferson
There you go. And you are a basketball savant and you don't know the story. Who is it named after?
- [37:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I have it in front of me now, so it's Twyman Stokes.
- [37:23]
Richard Jefferson
Okay. Do you know the Twyman Stokes story?
- [37:26]
Ryan Rosillo
I've lost track of all these awards.
- [37:30]
Richard Jefferson
Well, it is a really good story. I'll let you, I'll let your readers, I'll let you read it up. But when you read the story, the award actually carries more weight. And I think they should do a better job of describing what that story is and the origin of it. I think that would actually make the story a little bit bigger because I don't think, I don't think it's. So I didn't know it. And Mike's.
- [37:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I didn't know it. I haven't stepped the story.
- [37:53]
Richard Jefferson
And now Steph is like, he know he could feel the energy from me, right? He can feel the energy come from me. I'm like, I'm leaning in. Like, is he gonna tell the story or is he Basically the same thing I'm doing to, to your audience at home.
- [38:06]
Ryan Rosillo
It's, it's an incredible story. I just read the synopsis here as you were going through it. So Murray Stokes, Jack Twyman, and then Marie Stokes suffered an injury, permanent paralysis. And then Twyman became his legal guardian. So spending the rest of his life with him. So I, yeah, I, I'd lost track of that one. I am going to have to pivot out of this though, to ask about, you know, watching Minnesota and the Lakers and realizing the physical advantage that Minnesota had and watching Golden State kind of hang on, right? Hang on. In game seven against Houston where it was like, you're going to have to have that bad Houston offensive night, which led to Golden State getting through Draymond legitimately playing center here. Like, not just sort of matching up, just going, hey, man, you're going to be out there for all of these minutes. Except for some of the looney minutes or when they were playing post a little bit more. As I watched Golden State get through that Houston series, I'll admit I kept thinking ahead to Minnesota going, I don't like. I love watching Steph getting to continue the playoff run at this age, because I feel like all of this stuff is extra. Kind of the same thing with LeBron. Like, you get into those extra moments, like, just try to appreciate it more as opposed to being nastier in the way we can about the NBA. But I just can't see it over the grueling disadvantage that you're at. I think those minutes and those box outs and all of that stuff, it adds up. It adds up leading to the fourth quarter, and it adds up over the course of a series. I just have a hard time seeing Golden State get through this one. Yeah.
- [39:37]
Richard Jefferson
And I think that was one of the things that happened. And social media is always so funny, right? Everyone's like, lebron's legacy. The Lakers suck. Luka's trash. And it's like, or Minnesota is really good, or Minnesota is really good. And I think it's always a combination of things. You talk about those box outs that Draymond had to do against Shingoon and against Steven Adams, that too big lineup was affecting Golden State because it's just like, well, guess who else has a too big lineup? Who? Guess who else has a very large lineup. Guess who else has big depth? Rudy Gobert, Nas Reed. When you look at Julius Randle, when you look at the size and the physicality that all three of them play with, when you look at that, you're like, damn. But then you have those defenders. So you have the Jalen, Jaden McDaniels. That's very similar to Thompson. You have. You have Nikhil Alexander Walker. You have a guy like everything they hope and wish Jalen Green could possibly be. And we'll get to that conversation. Everything they hope and wish he can be, that's Anthony Edwards. Just dominant, confident, understand the game, IQ level. They have a much better version of the Houston Rockets. That's what they're about to go face, a more mature version, a deeper version with Dante DiVincenzo and Conley. They have. That's a very good roster. It is understandable why the Lakers lost. We just Believe in Lucas greatness and bronze greatness. That. Oh, they'll figure it out. And this year that wasn't the case. But looking forward to that series. You never count out Jimmy, you never count out Steph the same way you don't count out Luka. The same way you don't count out Braun until you just see it. But, yeah, Minnesota is a different opponent and they're playing their best basketball of the season.
- [41:29]
Ryan Rosillo
What's the Jalen Green conversation that you want to have?
- [41:32]
Richard Jefferson
Well, you were just talking about. I just saw. Yeah, I watch his stuff. I come on here and I myself the May ready. So what kind of bullshit Ryan saying? I think that Jaylen Green, when you talk about Thompson and kind of the like is, would he be in Thompson's way? Right.
- [41:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, okay. Yeah.
- [41:50]
Richard Jefferson
Okay. I, I think basketball is such a unique sport where we can evaluate a guy from 19 to 22 and be like, well, there he is that. Well, that, that's who he is. And it's like, well, let's also look at. He does have growth to be had. Jalen Green. He does have experience. He was, he was a deer in headlights in this series. He was a deer in headlights. And it happens the same way. A guy like Chet Holmgren, who is a confident, arrogant dude, can miss two free throws in a playoff game in a clutch moment, right? These young players, and I've been a part of it. I missed two free throws in a Game 5 against Indiana, and I thought my life was going to be over. You can be 21 and 22 and be endearing headlights, and I have a 38 point game, 36 point game, and show and show glimpses, but then be 6, 8 and 9. Not comparing Kobe Bryant, but Kobe Bryant also famously air ball three, you know what I'm saying? So there can be a growth that happens. I watch Thompson and I think of him as a jack of all trades. He's got a long way to go before he can prove that he is an offensive threat. Not, not at like, he's shooting the percentages. The, the, the technical look on his shot that needs to be improved. There's a, there's a big gap there. So he's got the intangibles of all the basketball greatness. Jalen Green's got the skill. So I think as long as Jalen Green continues to progress, which he's made big jumps year over year, as long as he continues to progress, I think they actually work together because Jalen Green could do things that Thompson can and Thompson can Do things that Jalen Green can. So I don't quite think that they're in each other's way because both of them got this experience to be against this team and having the number two seed because over the course of the season they could complement each other and build off of that and be kind of like, quote, unquote, a combo good player.
- [43:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Is there any of the Game 1 results? Are there any of the Game 1 results? Were the home team losing these? Because we're talking about what we consider clearly the three best teams in the NBA this year. Okc, Cleveland, Boston, all losing at home. Are you concerned about any of them based on what you saw?
- [44:06]
Richard Jefferson
No, I think the series, I think Cleveland coming off a series in which they blew out their opponent, there was no competition, zero resistance, elevation of intensity, but no resistance. So for them to get, excuse me, the Pacers, which are coming off a physical series where they ran, they did similar things. Long, athletic opponents, Giannis and Brooke. So for them to come in the series with a punch and a force, not surprised. Boston, I would say Orlando had some physicality to them, but ultimately the Knicks were in a grind out series. They were even. What's his name?
- [44:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Detroit?
- [44:53]
Richard Jefferson
No, no, from Knicks. Josh Hart. Yeah, Josh Hart. Josh Hart said, we've been hit and been hit with bats for six games and we brought our bats to this game. They had to. That was the only way for them truly to beat. To beat the Knicks is to come with the physical and then to persevere for 48 minutes. That's the only way for them to do it. And they did. Right? Then you get, you get Brunson and you give me Brunson with 90 seconds in a tie game. I'm feeling confident. I'm feeling very, very confident. You give me Brunson. So when you look at these series, for Boston to, you know, have an easier series, but now to really be tested versus a Knick team and then on the other side, okc, younger team cruise through their series. Denver's coming off of game seven where they're fighting for their lives for 48 minutes and they continue to do that here in this, in this situation. So when you look at the series and where each team came from, that's where it's like, okay, I can see how this would go down this way. Still shocking, but I'm still not changing kind of the idea that the Boston Celtics, if healthy, are the best team in the league. I'm not changing that. But yes, I can see where they've all kind of gotten to these one game situations over the course of your career.
- [46:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you have examples? And I'm putting you on the spot a bit here, but like the Celtics are very hunt happy and it's hard to argue with any of the stuff that they've done offensively. As I said in the open, it's like you can sit there and be like, oh, they're too reliant on the three and like yeah sure you had the game last night, but they also have the title from last year. But chasing down and hunting the mismatches, constantly switching into those stuff. Have you ever played with a team where you felt like you did it too much? You know, is it. Does it become this default setting where you're not really running anything and then everything is in front the ball and you and everyone knows what the decision is and then everybody else is just kind of watching it because you can become a little too predictable and you're also running a lot of shot clock down hoping to get into the matchup that you want. Do you have anything from like a team where you were like man, we did that. No, not with jk that's for sure.
- [47:00]
Richard Jefferson
No, but that's what I'm saying. Not with J kid, not with Pop, not with when I had Steph, not with, you know, when I played with Vince. When you look at this team, that's what makes them unique. They shoot more threes. All the things. Like they are a unique team in NBA history. The Celtics, the way they play, at the rate that played, the amount of two way players that they have. There's. There is. They're a unique team. That's why we always say kind of like the warriors are the ultimate like around and find out team where it's just like one game. They're just going to throw the ball everywhere and it's going to be. You're going to be. They're going to have that one game. Well, I think the Celtics oftentimes have a game where they just lay a dud. They shoot too many threes, they do all this stuff and you're like wait, that shouldn't be. But over a course of time it starts to work because they have too many weapons. They. No one's going to be off for six out of seven games. No one's going to be off. They're collectively because they have eight two way players that can hit threes, that can play defense, that can play one on one that create shots and then it's just believing in the system. So I haven't seen a team like that, but it feels like there's always. We always get one or two of these games where now we're questioning the entire system that's worked for them for the last two years. They won 61 games. They have a very, very bad shooting night blow. But ultimately they are a team very similar to the old Golden State warriors, where in 90 seconds a game can feel like it's over. Yeah.
- [48:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. And it still felt like it was over last night. When they're up 20 and I was going through the shots again this morning, and it's. It's hard to argue with Missoula's point on the shot quality. It's just when you set a record for the most threes ever missed, just not many people are going to want to defend that. The next morning, on the SGA side of things, it was pretty clear that Denver cranked up what they were going to do to try to slow him down. I've heard it before where it's like, hey, they're just going to double him. I think there was a Minnesota regular season game where it felt like they were just really aggressive with it, like we're just going to try to get the ball out of this guy's hands. And then the players around him felt like every one of the guys that I expect to be making shots or enough to keep you honest, missed all of those shots. Is there anything to the sellout defense of just trying to get SGA to get the ball out of his hands?
- [49:13]
Richard Jefferson
No. But I think as the series goes on, you start to. If I'm a player and my teammate is getting doubled, right. Game one, I'm looking and kind of reading, okay, well, where are the gaps? Where are the lanes? Where's my shot? Where's the help coming from? Right by game two, game three, I'm no longer thinking it's like, boom, coming. I know he's not going to leave Chad, so now I'm going to go downhill. Now my outlets are floater kick out to the corner or the big diving. So then by game three, four, you're really just moving, you're cruising. So it is. And that's Denver. They have to do it, I think, in spots. But if you give any team a steady diet of anything, boy, those boys will figure it out and they will carve you apart. That's what. Same thing. You can't just get the ball out of Donovan Mitchell's hands, because if it's in there, then they start to see it and they get good at it very quickly. That's the level of a great team. How quickly can we adjust? But also hurt you with it. And so same with Celtics, you can't just double team. You can't double team Jason Tatum and get the ball out of his hands. They got too many shooters. You got Brzingis, you got this. So that's great. I think that's a great system and it is a good idea to get it out of the MVP, out of the guy that's averaging 30 points a game in every game. Get it out of his hands. But you can't do it for every single game. I won't say you can't. It's hard to do it every single game because teams start to pick up on it. Same with like just base guarding Steph. It works. It worked for, you know, three quarters, two and a half quarters in that game five without Jimmy. But once they break free now it's like you're playing four on four. That's a lot of space. If you're playing a whole half court game, four on four. If you can get past your opponent, the options are easier to hit because there's less crowded. The finishes are easier to get to because it's less crowded. So that, that doing that defense works. But you're going to have to continue to mix it up because if you give them a steady diet, they'll start to. They'll break you apart quickly.
- [51:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Say you're in a game, playoffs, games two two, game five. 14 seconds left, shot clock is off. And Brunson, you're going up against either Brunson or SGA on the other side. Who are you more afraid of right now?
- [51:27]
Richard Jefferson
Oh, Brunson. Brunson, Brunson. I think that. And I'm not, I'm saying I feel very confident in sga. I'm not excited. I'm not excited. Sga. I'm not excited. Kobe, Luka Braun, I'm not excited if any of them have the game. But there has been somebody over the past two and a half seasons that have been in so many clutch crunch games have performed like, have been explosive. You look at Detroit, how he played. You look at the like, you look at some of the big shots against like this is what he does. Little guy, you know, just figures it out. Team is built around him. He's got the space, he knows his shots. And it's not just big three, it's drive to the basket. I couldn't believe he missed that little left hand floater from Karl Anthony Towns late like Even he was laughing. He's like, of all the shots I missed, that's the easiest shot I had all night. And that's to win the game. So I'm just saying, currently right now, Brunson is playing, I think he is the guy that I would look at from an NBA standpoint. Still, like, not expected it, but you're just not like, this dude really did it again. Like, it's. It's been fun to watch.
- [52:37]
Ryan Rosillo
I. I think with og, you know, there's things I liked and there's things that I didn't necessarily like. Like if you're a wing. I think one of the knocks, which I think was a fair knock is I always talk about like two dribble guys and then there's guys that can dribble. There's a lot of guys that can dribble twice.
- [52:53]
Richard Jefferson
I'm a two dribble guy. I was a two dribble guy. It's fine. It's. I know my, I know my. I know my range.
- [53:03]
Ryan Rosillo
I think I remember when we first met too. I was like, you know, I really couldn't believe you went as late as you did. I was like, I really liked you in the draft that year. That was before I was even working in the business. And I would be so obsessed with the draft and I would just be like enthused, going, how can an entire league do they not. They not get it? And then it was like, well, he's also with Jason Kidd running around out there. But this is actually. I like this though, because it. I was talking with somebody about this the other day. When you don't get to dribble in NBA games, you're never going to be good at dribbling. So you may have been able to dribble in high school, maybe in college, but then when you become the fourth or fifth option and you don't ever dribble in NBA games for a couple seasons, I don't know that you can ever fix where that's going.
- [53:45]
Richard Jefferson
Tim Duncan said it to me. Tim, like, he said, you know what people? We were just having a bullshit conversation. He was like, people get better at shooting, at defense, at so many things. The one thing that people don't significantly get better at is like dribbling or ball handling. They don't. Like a point guard who knows how to handle the ball, can get better in pick and roll, his handle can get sharper because that's kind of the area of, of specifications are like specifically what he does. But you don't see A wing player be having. Okay, handle turn into Paul George. That. No, no, that doesn't happen. Like, Paul George has a handle as a wing player. He didn't develop that over time. But I will say this. Playing with Jason Kidd and then playing with Vince Carter, so J. Kidd was first, where it's like he would handle both ball most of the time and pick and roll. He was. And I would just see it. He got the rebound, I got the rebound, and it was as fast as I can run. Even though my game improved and my ball handling improved and I became a better one on one player. Then Vince Carter came. So now you got to choose between J Kid, Vince Carter, and Richard. It's like I'm further down on the depth chart. Shoot. J. Kidd went down on the depth chart. We would put the ball in Vince's hands in the last minute or two. Then sometimes we would have J kid with both of us scoring options on the wing, whatever. So it is one of those things where I did not develop that part of my game the way I should. So then it. Like when it was like, hey, Richard, there's a new thing in The NBA called 3 and D. You stand there and you play defense, and it's like, Sounds very similar to what I've been doing my whole life. Right. I just got to be accurate from three and play defense. Yeah, I did that with J Kid and the Nets back in the day. Right. So you're right. Ball handling is not something that you improve over. Like, very rarely do, like, wing players learn how to handle that. That's. That's not the way it goes.
- [55:35]
Ryan Rosillo
It's really rare to go, hey, this guy's handle is way better than it was three or four years ago. And I know people probably, like, push back with, like, what about this guy? But I'm telling when you're that third or fourth dude, you know, and you don't get to dribble, you know, and it's. It also speaks to. And I know I had an OG question in here, but, like, there are moments in the playoffs where I can't believe anyone scores ever, because. And I'm going to use Tatum as an example just because he's bigger, even though he's not coming off sort of the best example game. But there are times because he's. He's not like Luca, where Luca goes slow at his advantage, and he drives two contact. Like, sometimes when I think about ant part of his problem, he's so good at avoiding contact. He's so ridiculous in the air. And his body control and everything that he actually doesn't get calls because he's not playing to contact. Because he's always like, look, look, I'm trying to avoid the defender so I can finish at the rim. Luca wants you to be connected to him. He wants to feel your body and he's going to use all that stuff against you. I'll see. Dribble like, it's not so much a back down with Tatum, but he, he gets it. He's trying to figure out what he wants to do. And he. The physicality of those moments where you're like, how does anyone forget scoring? How does anyone even keep the dribble alive with the playoff intensity and everyone swiping at a guy that's at a perimeter size. I think if you took like, I know this is stupid, but the average like pretty good high school player and said, if we give you the ball and try to like, you would go, how does anyone. How do you guys get to 80? Never mind.
- [57:05]
Richard Jefferson
It's hard to do. That's. And that's where I like, I tell people. I'm like, this is why the game becomes even more beautiful in these moments. Because you're like, you have the best, biggest, most athletic in shape men trying to stop you from putting a ball in a hoop that. That could be anywhere from 25 to 30ft away. That's where you're starting. And there it's. It becomes like the skill level is so minute, right? Of like, how does Brunson do it? He doesn't even have the size and he just figures out how to use his body to get space to pick the gaps. He's crafty, he's left handed. I think when you look at. Especially now, the game has changed where skill level players like Luka. Luka can go slow and kind of get. But even Luca struggles against Jalen Browns, Lucas struggles against McDaniels. When there's a bunch of defenders, when there's three or four, a wall up top and I can get used to one defender, right? Like there's a, like Dylan Brooks. You look at Thompson, okay, you get one of those guys out the game, it's fine. Where Minnesota's different, where Boston's different, they've got. So they got five of those guys at some point in time. You got Drew Holiday, you got Derrick White, you know, you got Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown. You got so many guys that even for a guy like Luke or it's hard to kind of get your rhythm defensively and it's like, pick your spots. You know, you got the bounce pass against or you got, you know, you got the bounce pass against Jaylen Brown's arms aren't as long as Jaden McDaniels. You know, you got the over the top pass over Drew Holiday. You know, you might have that over Derrick White, but you can't do it over Jade McDaniels. But when you're constantly throwing multiple defenders at a person, it's hard to be like, okay, this is where I can make this, this read and this look. So it gets very, very hard. And it also shows how special and gifted these dudes are that over a 5, 6, 7 game period, they start to figure it out and it's not the easiest thing in the world.
- [59:06]
Ryan Rosillo
So back to. I love that we just did all that, but there was, there's a switch last night with Tatum where he gets Bridges and as good as Bridges is and makes the game ceiling defensive play. And you know, these are all the reasons you would talk about bring and giving up the resources that they do. If Tatum gets a switch on Bridges, he's going. If he ends up with og, he doesn't want it. I mean, OG is the last guy that you want and it's, it's something you certainly can avoid, but sometimes it's just not going to happen. We don't talk about OG defensively the way we talk about maybe ADOR or McDaniels. I would say even Amend Thompson. But what do you see from him? Because I think it's, it's one that's the physicality and I'm not going to answer here for you, but there's a want to out of him defensively that I think has really shown itself in the playoffs so far.
- [59:52]
Richard Jefferson
I think there's a want to from all of those guys that you mentioned. There's, there's a want to, but they all have different physical traits that, that dictate what the defender is looking for and going for. Like I said, I mentioned Jaden McDaniel's length. It's very hard to pass around him. Not only is he quick, he's not the strongest, but it's very hard to, to pass. Your angles are different with him because his length and he's 6 foot 10 and he's got like a 7 foot 4 wingspan, so the angles are different. With OG, he's so physically strong that you can't get him off his defensive path to create space. You hit his wall and he, he can veer you off of your pass with his strength, right, you can't turn the corner. Right, you can't turn the corner or bump him off. Jay McDaniels, you can. Mikhail Bridges, you can right. For them, it's less about how they. They're not as good at the physical content. They're great at lengths, at passes, at deflections. So you saw the steal, the throw out. Like, those are things that, like a Mikhail Bridges can do, a Jaden McDaniels could do. What makes OG special, the want to the six nine, the strength. So for a player like Tatum, he can't get through his body. Bron can. Bron can get through those bodies. Bigger, stronger players and Edwards can get through his body. But even then, people forget and Edwards is significantly shorter than those guys. He's six four and a half, six five. He doesn't have the six nine. Braun, he doesn't have that. That big athleticism. But he does have the strength. He does have the strength. So when we look at og, the thing that makes him unique is as you're trying to drive by him, he can veer you off his. Off your path into a lesser percentage shot, right? That's what makes it. That would make. You could still shoot up over him, but the crossover in front, he stays there. Think Ron Artest. Ron Artest, big, strong perimeter. And when he starts to move his body, if you're here, you're not going. You're not going through him and pushing him. You can go through McDaniels, you can go through Bridges, you can't go through. Run our test the same way you couldn't go through og.
- [62:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Are the Pacers being overlooked as potentially getting out of the East?
- [62:16]
Richard Jefferson
I don't think overlooked. I think they're looked at properly. They're a very good team. They're locking down defensively. They have depth, they have shooting. They're another team that depends, you know, on their shots and their pace. They depend on that. They're not a team that you would say if this game goes in the 90s, they. They have like the Knicks, they. They got the game. If it goes in the 90s, I would think the Boston Celtics, they are a team that needs to play with more pace and more shots. They need to wear you down over time. But I think the Pacers have been a very good team. They've been building success. They have a superstar, they have depth, they're well coached, they got a great home court advantage, but you're still looking at where they're slotted. No one is going to say I won't say no one. It's hard to say they're better than Cleveland, that they're better than Boston, that, that. With the Knicks, I don't care about what your record in the regular season, because it's different when there's no back to backs, there's no travel, there's no four games in five nights. It's. We have the same amount of rest, the same amount of prep. It's talent versus talent. And so do I think they could. Yes. Would it be surprising, a little shocking, but it wouldn't be like this. Oh, my God, who is this team? We know who they are. If they do it damn well, they played well. If they do it, they played very, very well. They played to the maximum of their capability where we think Boston and Cleveland can play good and still make it.
- [63:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Jokic goes crazy last night.
- [63:43]
Richard Jefferson
Again, as expected.
- [63:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Again, as expected. And part of me watching last night's like, man, this is going to feel good, just not having Zoo out there. You know, Zubots, we know that the numbers show that he had the best chance to get, but again, it doesn't. It doesn't mean it's like, well, he's eliminated because Zubots is out there. But just the physicality. This dude, you were never going to move. I'm sure there was some relief last night from Jokic and the possessions against Chad, even though, you know, check on him another time. And Harnstein, you know, they're just not. It's not the brick wall that Zubots is. Is there anything that you think is even like, possible of going, hey, if I had to dial up something to try to slow Jokic down, this is, this is the best approach because we saw doubles, we saw them change a lot of different things. I think some of the shooting splits of like, he shot it well against this guy. Not as sometimes that one game, sorting the shots like there. There are times I'll look, hey, it was one through seven or one for seven against this guy. He did. It's like, dude, he actually just missed more shots that were open against him than he did some of the other guys. I. I think they threw a lot of different stuff at him, and they'll continue to throw a lot of different stuff at him. Again, to stay to your earlier point of not being predictable, not showing like, you have to treat it like a quarterback, like, hey, we got to throw all sorts of different defenses at this guy. Is there anything over the years whether, going back to, again, he was a different player when you had started with him where you're like, this is something I'd at least say. This has to be one of, like the core principles we have in this series against this guy.
- [65:16]
Richard Jefferson
This might. Because. Because making him a passer doesn't work. Making him a score doesn't really work because even when you're making him a score, you're naturally going to have to gravitate him to slow. You can't just. It's not like you're going to go one, let him go one on one. It's more. You have to show a wall. And he's so great late at passes that even doing that's great. What I would say with Jokic, and this sounds. I would, I would. And he's in amazing condition. I would always have pressure on him at all times. If he inbounds the ball, I would kind of remember how they would guard Shaq, where it's like, you gotta. You're not meeting Shaq at the free throw line. You're not waiting for Shaq. You have to start touching his body around half court to slow up his momentum or else he's gonna get too deep. You don't get to meet Shaq. Like, I'm not saying that meet him at half court, but if you're running with Shaq, you have to meet him with force earlier, right? So he doesn't get deep in the pain. I think with Jokic, if you are constantly picking at him, you know, I don't want to say full court press, but if he's bringing the ball up, make him work. Chet, get up there, right? This is. This is a lot for you, we know. But, Chad, if he's inbounding the ball, we want you to be up at full court pressure. That takes a second and a half off of Jokic moving the ball. Now you're still going to have to switch up the defenses. You have to still switch up the defenses, but still, let me give you an example with J Kid. J Kid Legend. We played them Dallas versus Spurs. I think it was two versus seven. And I told Pop, I'm like, hey, normally Jason Kidd takes offense. If a guard tries to full court press him, he's like, excuse me. And then he will embarrass the guy like, don't do this. If you want to do this, we can do this. The Jason Quick Kid will full court press you and you won't take the ball. So if you're going to disrespect me in full court pressure, I'll do it on the other side. Well, when we played against him, Jason Kidd was a little bit older. And I'm like, hey, Jason Kidd. Because guards have always been afraid to like press up on him, understandably. I'm not, I'm not disrespecting jj. This is a compliment. But when he got a little bit older, I'm like, when you make him turn his back and throw passes, like if you're in the half court, if you pressure him and make him throw passes like this, he can still do it, but it's very different than when he's looking at you like this, making passes and this. So we got up in and maybe just made him turn his back. We made him turn his back and have to handle it. You know, Magic Johnson from the Mark Jackson, make him handle it like that. And so Tony would get up into his body and Jake and Manu would get up into his body. So we cut off half the court of his passing, right? We cut off a portion so he's still effective. He's still effective downhill, but we cut off a portion of the court instead of letting him do that. With Jokic, it's similar. You just have to get up and pressure him a little bit more before that, before he even gets to have court, make him make passes. You know how he sits at three point line, he's got the pump fake and he's got all of these whip make him, instead of doing that at the three point line, make him do it a foot and a half. Now that shot's harder. Now that pass is longer, that's harder to do. But if you make Jokic extend out a little bit more, maybe now his downhill dribble takes more effort, takes one more dribble. But if he's catching it at the three point line and then picking you apart, shots, pump fakes, drives, make him extend a foot and a half behind the three point line. The same way you have to make you deny the ball out and make them have to start their offense further out. Make Jokic have to start his offense and his system a little bit further out. And a foot and a half is a big, big, big difference. That's my long winded answer.
- [68:50]
Ryan Rosillo
No, that's good. I mean, you got to think of something. I mean, that sounds like Lou Door, right? That sounds like trying to. Maybe it's my biggest thing with Jokic, and I think the Clippers let him off the hook a little bit with it, is you've got to try to find a way to get them away from the backside. Defensively, you've you've got to figure out a way. And I would think with Oklahoma City, you know, if you're having Chet set a screen, there's still an option for Chad on a roll or a catch for Hartenstein. There's obviously the role in that push shot, but there's also a lot of stuff that they would allow him to do. Although you're asking him to set up the offense kind of late, 30ft away from the hoop, if there's some other part of it, you know, there's just a bunch of different people that I still like the ball in their hands. With Oklahoma City, if he's caught in some kind of switching where other teams, if you're. You're trying to attack him, then it means they're probably just going to help the Jokic, and then you're leaving somebody that you don't even care about. I just, you know, that was always the biggest concern about him defensively early on, and then you win a title and no one really ever worries about it. And I think in ways, he's a little underrated in the paint defensively because of his positioning and his effort, and just the simple stuff you hope you'd have from any player. Right. I have two quick things, and I'm going to let you go, because I know we're a little long here. Is there a potential philosophy when you're on a television broadcast that when there's a physical altercation, you defer to hoping that it wasn't intentional? Because I think all the shit's intentional. I think Jokic elbowed the shit out of Dort last night, knew he did it. I think that Draymond knows what he's doing all the time. He definitely hit Van Vliet in the face on purpose because he can't help himself. And then I even think the Tar Eason thing was weirder than maybe it played. It feels like when there's the national broadcast, it is like, I can't really say he probably did that on purpose because it's just going to feel nice, or you're trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt while I'm at home going, he 100% did that on purpose.
- [70:42]
Richard Jefferson
It takes, okay, what we believe to be a hundred percent on purpose. It has to be 120% obvious for us to say that we can't tell someone's intent. This is not me. Like, when you're on a broadcast and there's a different cadence, there's a different skill when you're doing a Broadcast. And it's very difficult. Like, people don't understand how hard it is to call a game, to, like, to articulate your thoughts and opinions in real time and be graded on that. That I say that. To say is that in that space, you do give the benefit of the doubt. Now, sometimes our boys, like, I might believe that he's doing this on purpose, but we have. I won't say on purpose, but you have to say something along the lines of, he has a history of this to give context. It's like, I'm not saying he should be thrown out of the game. That's terrible. You can't do that right out of that. That's just not how you should call a game. You can say, that's not a part of basketball, that he has a history. I love that one behavior. There's, like. There's things that you can say that can give contest, and that's. And I'm being respectful to all parties involved. Right. It's not just Draymond. It's not just, you know, Jokic. It's not just. It's. It's all the people that have had something go on. Like, I remember the Jason Tatum flagrant foul where he hurt his wrist, right? I thought there was nothing there. I thought there was not. Like, there was absolutely nothing there to a point of. I know that there was a foul, but I look at some of the other flagrants that have been called, and I'm like, that seems like more of a basketball play. Nothing intentional. I think Jayson Tatum just fell, got hurt. Flagrant one. But there's other things. If that's a flagrant one, there's a lot more flagrant twos going on. Right? I don't. And so when I look at it, you have to communicate it in a space with grace. Probably more so than I would as like, a fan. More so than I would if I was in studio. In studio, I would be more, hey, we can slow it down. We can give this. Like, we can listen to different perspectives. I can be a little bit more aggressive in studio with my breakdown of the play in the game, in the real time. You have to more just be like, hey, I saw what all of you saw. I'm discussing what my thoughts are, but I'm not giving my full aggressive opinion on it.
- [73:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, last question. Your teammate list is insane. The dudes that you've played with, very blessed. You know, Jokic, it's early. It's early with Steph. What's the Richard Jefferson, Mount Rushmore Teammates. Because like, it'd be simple to say.
- [73:22]
Richard Jefferson
Hey, yeah, I got you, I got you, I got you. Jason Kidd, number one, right? When I say Mount Rushmore is no particular order, I just put Jason Kidd number one. He meant too much to me from watching his work, seeing his impact on the game of basketball without scoring, like to have that be your veteran. Like, I'm going to help you score, but also when you're not scoring, I'm showing you all the other shit you can be doing. Go rebound. Go make a right play. Go play some defense, right? J kid number one. I put LeBron number two. I put Tim Duncan number three. And then, oh, it's tough because now we're talking, we get into the dirt, we get into the staff, we get into the yokage. You know, for me, I would probably. It's tough. I would, I'm, I'm going to say, I'm going to say Steph, because Steph broke the three point record. That's, I'm looking at the years in which I played you. I think Dirk obviously is legendary, but at the year in which I played with Steph, he broke the three point record and started to establish that that was the first year that the league took notice and he just kept growing and building and putting in work. So I would put Steph up there. So yeah, it would be J kid, LeBron, Tim and then Step and a close one with Jokic. We didn't make the postseason with Jokic. We lost in that 82nd game against Jimmy and the Timberwolves. That's when Denver, whoever won that game, was going to move on to the playoffs. It was only happened like three times, but we lost that game with Steph that one year, year and a half I played with them. He led, you know, the team to the second round. So that's the context I'll give.
- [75:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, because you can't just say, well, hey, Jokic is awesome. He needs to be on there. It has to be. At the time you were their teammates, did you not put Kenyon Martin because you were afraid of him when you were a young player?
- [75:11]
Richard Jefferson
I only know I was not afraid of Kenyon. There was a big brother respect I had for Kenyon, which in why we got into fights and stuff. But no, no, no, I've been blessed, man. And again, when you're in the middle of your career, you don't realize it. You're like, oh, I'm, oh, I'm playing. I play with Rudy Gobert when he was on a two way contract and he had just got drafted. I played with Kawhi Leonard when I was with San Antonio and they drafted him. So, you know, even Clay, like, I've played with a lot of these guys and you don't look back on it until you're like, hey, I'm going to talk about basketball. Then you're like, holy fuck. I've played with a lot of great players. I've been very, very blessed in my career. So yeah, when you. Because again, I played with Clay, I played with Kawhi, but Kawhi wasn't Hawaii yet. You could see the work ethic, you could see the ability that probably more people didn't. So you're not as surprised of the ascension. Same with Clay. But it is still. They weren't quite the best versions of themselves yet.
- [76:04]
Ryan Rosillo
And we didn't even get to Joe Alexander.
- [76:06]
Richard Jefferson
So honestly, they. Again, that was Joe. Shout out my guy Joe. West Virginia legend.
- [76:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Tournament. Legend.
- [76:16]
Richard Jefferson
Tournament. Legend. Tournament. Spoke fluent Chinese. Good for. Who wouldn't. Who would have thought? Who would have thought?
- [76:21]
Ryan Rosillo
What's up? He'd probably be great at volleyball.
- [76:24]
Richard Jefferson
He would. And Joe, Joe and I still like, we'll DM each other every now and then. He played basketball for a very. I'm not sure if he's still playing, but he went Europe and China and played for a very, very long time.
- [76:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Shout out my guy Joe, you're the man. I'm so happy for you and the success. I can't look throughout the playoffs. It's fun, but just, just the fact you're going to be on the call, espn, abc, the NBA Finals, man, it is well deserved.
- [76:48]
Richard Jefferson
So thanks, I appreciate that. I would love to have you. I'm building a studio downstairs in my house. Would love to have you sometime during the postseason. Sit down, have a beer and talk with Channing, Perk and Allie on road tripping.
- [76:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Done. Absolutely done. Whenever you want it.
- [77:01]
Richard Jefferson
I appreciate you, big guy.
- [77:05]
Ryan Rosillo
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- [79:01]
Kyle
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [79:04]
Ryan Rosillo
What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [79:08]
Richard Jefferson
I have every toy you can possibly imagine.
- [79:11]
Ryan Rosillo
And best of all, kids, I am liquid.
- [79:14]
Richard Jefferson
So now you know what's possible.
- [79:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Let me tell you what's required. The email address lifeadvicermail.com Kyle and Worgon on the scene. Good to see everybody. Got the chain dangling today, Kyle. I like seeing that. Is that an everyday chain? I assume.
- [79:30]
Kyle
Everyday chain. Everyday chain. And possibly one of two going in the future. I think I could be a two chain guy. Yeah. Would you go shorter on the second chain or would you go longer on the second chain?
- [79:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, I don't know. It's a pretty good length right now. Not saying it's long, but I do like the idea.
- [79:47]
Kyle
I don't know which one to go with.
- [79:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I like the idea of the thought of just the differential on that because you want if you're going to be a two chain guy. I think People have to see the two chains.
- [79:55]
Kyle
Yeah. Otherwise why are you even doing it?
- [79:57]
Ryan Rosillo
I assume you're a two chains guy musically as well, right?
- [80:01]
Kyle
Absolutely. I think he's maybe the funniest rapper we've ever had.
- [80:04]
Ryan Rosillo
He's hilarious rapper.
- [80:05]
Kyle
He's hilarious. Lil Wayne has had some funny stuff too, but I think just more often than not, T Pain makes me laugh. Or T Pain, two chains.
- [80:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, well, T Pain too, though. Wargon. Favorite rapper?
- [80:20]
Worgon
I don't know. I'm an Eminem guy.
- [80:23]
Ryan Rosillo
All right.
- [80:23]
Kyle
I thought he was going to say like Andre 3000 or something.
- [80:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Unless we took T Pain from him. All right, so we have some information, further information on the pontoon boat. Then we had somebody else email us saying, I think I saw that actual bachelor party, but I don't believe that that's the case. So we're not going to read through that one. So, 5 12, 195. When I refer to myself as 6ft tall, people act like I'm a 616 claiming about a national championship, a 6 and 6 team claiming about a national championship, but I'm literally 72 inches tall. So now I say 5 12. Before switching to machine work for my joints. A couple summers ago, I got up to benching 3:15 for three sets of three and squatting 405 for three sets of five. That's incredibly impressive to do 315 three times, especially at 195. So good for you. We'll make you. We'll give you the six feet. Anyway, following up in the email from the last pod about the bachelor party pontoon boats, I'm the groom dubbed in the original email as pj. My buddy who wrote in we'll call him Leaf, left out a few details. One, he's not 5 10. Oh no. Can we trust anything anymore? I don't want to trash my guy to the world here and call him 5758. So let's call him 5 9ish. I do think this is interesting. The one guy that emailed in, I don't even know did I read it where he was just like, this podcast sucks. Basically. Like, I can't. No, I don't know.
- [82:01]
Kyle
I don't remember you reading that one.
- [82:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, now we usually leave those for Friday feedback. But he's like this obsession. I think he was foreign. He was like this obsession with height. Like I've never heard anybody ever talk about, you know, again, I. I think it just sort of happened. I'm 28 and all relevant parties are between 27 and 33. Number. That's number two. Number three. The setup for the trip is thus. I invited everyone, booked a house in the lake with driving distance for everybody within driving distance at $256 per person, and handed off the planning to my. My co best man. Number four. Rosillo's instincts, right? It's not just two groups. There are two singles in a duo on this trip. That leaves two big groups of my college buddies, eight minus me and my law school buddies, six minus me. My co best men are from my college group and Leaf is one of my law school buddies. That means the guys griping about the boats are obsessively doing better than the guys suggesting the boats. Here we go. Also the Leaf. Yeah, also to Leif's point about wanting to be consulted. Every bachelor trip I've attended and my fiance said the same has had one or two people plan the trip and send everyone else the itinerary. So if not being consulted is Leif and the other's lawyers issues, Ryan's quote, trouble with authority unquote hypothesis might be accurate. That said, the boats are a bit of a dilemma. One co best man, we'll call him James, found a deal for two boats for three days at 186 per person. Person. Okay, so that means you have access to boats all three days. Two boats at under 200 bucks a guy. So, you know, I know it's. I mean, if that's 186 for the entire trip, like, hey, here's your boat fee. I mean, dude, you know, it's storage, dry storage.
- [83:42]
Kyle
You start talking gas though, right? You still got to top them up when you bring them back.
- [83:45]
Worgon
Yeah, I would think.
- [83:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. But I mean, you know, if you're just pontooning them around the lake, you know, I don't know that you're blowing up three days. 20 knots.
- [83:55]
Kyle
Three days of boat races could totally up the. You might. Everyone's passionate about it. Just can't wait to get back out there and go for round 12.
- [84:04]
Ryan Rosillo
We won't all fit on one boat. And there are some waterfront bars, restaurants. So James wants two boats to make sure we don't split up getting to and from each place. The boat rental has a three day minimum because it's a holiday weekend. Weekend. All right, so they had to do the three days. They also agreed to cut the price to $40 per person if we get two. Meaning one boat isn't exactly half the price. Okay, so that's where the 186 is again. It's 186 for the entire weekend to have boats again. I like boats, but I. I kind of know where this is going. On the one hand, $440 for the house and boats is still cheaper than Vegas flights for our buddy's bachelor our other buddy's bachelor party. On the other hand, we're almost doubling the cost of the trip before food and drink for the boats we may not want to use, as we've already mapped out a lot of other activities for the weekend. Other guys are also worried about the danger liability of the three guys, including me, with boating licenses, staying sober enough to drive or just generally avoiding damage to or accidents in the boats all weekend. Boating these bars and restaurants is also slower than driving Ubering would be. So it's not adding convenience, only experience. My biggest concern with the boats is one, the cost will make us feel obligated to use them when we'd rather not, or two, we won't use them as much and guys are resentful. They wasted $186. People keep saying it's my weekend, I should decide. But honestly, I don't see any world in which I don't have fun this weekend. So I can't bring myself to care. So I'm requesting the best wedding gift of possible. Best wedding gift. God, why am I. He's suggesting the best wedding gift possible is for the rosillopod to decide for me. Again, the options are no boat, $0, one boat, $100, 120 a person, two boats, 186 a person. Thanks, guys. Okay. All right, look, a lot of good points. A lot of good points. I don't think the cost is crazy, especially for this group. 27:33 Others may say, hey, why are we going to do this? Why are we paying 186 a person? Again, if it's only one bow, it's 120. So I think it's important that he pointed out it's not just half price if we stay to the one boat. The fact that they have to do the three days because it's holiday weekend. You're right. Right. Like you're going to be looking at those boats sometimes, being like we're not even using them today because you have other activities planned. I'd say number three. I don't even know if I number the first two. But the boating license anxiety is a real thing because clearly somebody's going to have to stay sober enough at a bachelor party while you're bar hopping on the waterfront. Which sounds awesome. And look, pulling up with your crew that first time and then having the boats hitting a couple spots, getting onto the boat, hitting up a different one. Like, I'm picturing places that I've hung out that are like this and then just cruising back, you know, sun is setting, you're thinking about the night, and tunes are a little widespread out on the pontoon. That's pretty epic. And it might be worth the one awesome night that you do that to feel like you're wasting money the other nights. But is there going to be somebody in this age group? You know, this is a dangerous age group for a bachelor party. If it were post 40s, I assume there's one guy that would be thrilled to drive the boat, so he'd have an excuse because he just doesn't want to be hungover anymore in his life and he cannot possibly stand it. But 27 to 33, there's probably very few people in that group that have dealt with the. Is this pointless, this stage of being hungover as you start to question that when you're older? So, you know, there's also like, just to be the reality of it. Like, you can have a boater's license, but when you're driving a different boat, that's not your boat. It's just like, all right, I gotta kind of figure out how to dock this stuff. Now, granted, pontoons, you're going fairly slow. You're going to be able to figure out how to dock the whole thing. But that's just asking it. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe there are people that are better than me, but. But. Well, there certainly are. But when you have to be in charge of the boat, it. It is a big responsibility and you have to just accept that. I'm not going to have as much fun as everybody else. And then, you know, I'm, you know, who knows? Docking in front of people in the pontoon and you have a license, you know, like, you don't want to look like a total when you're doing that. I still think the peak moment of this for at least the one night is probably worth it. And I think once you're out on the water, everybody's going to be like, I'm really pumped that we have this. So not shocking. I'm pro boat in this scenario.
- [88:23]
Kyle
Yeah, I think you can't. A good rule of bachelor parties, I would imagine, is we're not doing the split up thing. Like, so I don't think one boat is an option. And I think you just, I think you over prepare, which means that you bought the boat for three days and you probably use it one day. I'm just thinking back to Ocean City, Maryland, where if we didn't have any structure, probably could have been at Secrets a little less. We had a great time. It was just sort of like, you know, everyone was up for like two hours and we're like, maybe we'll throw something on the grill. But I guess Secrets opens pretty soon. Should we just go back and we just. We basically spent three days at Secrets in, in Ocean City, Maryland rather than, you know, anything else. So I think that's cool to have a little structure there. And I would vote for the boats. Two boats. Can't go one. You don't want to leave anybody in on land for that.
- [89:12]
Worgon
Is there not an option where they just rent these boats for, for one day?
- [89:16]
Ryan Rosillo
No, it's holiday, holiday weekend. They have to do. Right. I just wonder, I'm sorry to jump you, Borg, but I almost wonder, does it feel like it's a wasted cost because you're not going to be using them a bunch of time? Because I would argue a night out on the lake, bar hopping, pontoon boats, two boats, 186 a guy for just that experience. You'd be dying to pay that for just one night.
- [89:42]
Worgon
This is, this is all in how you sell it. You tell these guys it's 186. We have it for tonight, and then we also get it for the next two days.
- [89:49]
Kyle
Oh, nice little Jordan Belfor there.
- [89:52]
Ryan Rosillo
That was great.
- [89:54]
Worgon
Like you're gonna have a good time on that one night.
- [89:56]
Kyle
Wolf of Lake George.
- [89:56]
Richard Jefferson
That's awesome, right?
- [89:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Is this legal?
- [90:04]
Kyle
An amazing opportunity just came across my desk.
- [90:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Ask who buys this mostly Postman. I don't know that there was like if the cost were extravagant and I don't mean to, you know, do this at times in the pod when we're talking about money where I know that I can kind of default to like 186 bucks. Like, come on. It really does feel like it's. That's the marketing of it, Oregon. Because staring at them when they're not being used and then having other activities, it's like, oh, well, this was a waste of money.
- [90:40]
Worgon
But you're gonna waste money at a bachelor party.
- [90:43]
Ryan Rosillo
But there's no vert like it. Unless you had some guy with just a beat to hell pontoon boat that could put 20 dudes on it. It's like, hey, throw me 50 bucks. And he's taxing around for the entire night. I just don't. You know how expensive boats are, like, to charter them now? I just don't think that's a massive cost. And I think that first night, the one big night where it really works, and then if you have just a lazy day where you don't feel like doing anything because it's like, I don't know if you're going out two nights or you're going out three nights, and you say, hey, do you guys just want to take a crew who wants to take a cruise around? And then half the guys do, and who knows? There's probably going to be one guy who's like, well, I didn't even use the boat the third day I stayed in. And it's like, all right, man, you stayed in. 186.
- [91:29]
Kyle
It's honestly the price of, like, a nice dinner where no one really spares any expense and you all split the checks, like, six ways. It's like, 186 is sort of what you can be expecting. So it's like, basically the cost of a nice dinner for three days of access to boats. So I say, yes, I vote boats.
- [91:44]
Worgon
Also, this guy's right. Like, he's not doing the flight to, like, Vegas or somewhere. So, like, you're saving money. Like, who cares if this is slightly more than you'd want to pay? Because overall, you're saving money.
- [91:54]
Ryan Rosillo
I think you just go, hey, man, there's going to be some people that really appreciate it. I think the night where it goes, like, the choice night that you do it, you're gonna go, this was awesome. Because you're not six deep in an Uber ordering an Uber comfort. And you're like, dude, do you have the extended hatchback Prius? Like, is this really comfort, dude? Because I'm not comfortable. All right, real quick. One single guy going to wedding alone. Hey, fellas, Just get a short one here. I'm a single guy going to a female's wedding alone. Any tip tips? No. Impressive gym stats player comp. Sasha Khan.
- [92:27]
Kyle
I have no tips, and I'll never be this guy, but I kind of envy you.
- [92:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Never done it? No.
- [92:31]
Kyle
I mean, my first wedding, you know, was. It wasn't. That wasn't that long ago. It was like a year before mine. And, like, you know, I was certainly not a single guy at a wedding. I just wonder what that's like. You're dressed up, you know, I like to wear suits out for no reason sometimes. So just to be looking my best at a wedding and you know, everyone's, like, friendly, and people are asking questions. Who's this guy? I don't. I just feel like it'd be a great time. I don't have tip tips, but I have a little bit of envy.
- [92:57]
Worgon
Does it. Does he have, like, a group of guys he's going with? Did he say that?
- [93:01]
Ryan Rosillo
I have that info.
- [93:01]
Kyle
He's friends with a bride.
- [93:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [93:03]
Kyle
I don't know.
- [93:03]
Worgon
Yeah, that's tough, because I went. My first friend that got married, it was, like, a group of, like, eight of us. He got married when he was, like, 25, 26. So, like, a bunch of us were single at the time. It was a good time. But this. This sounds like a different situation.
- [93:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Two very distinct ways this can go. You're gonna have an awful time. If it's an older wedding, you might drink way too much and everybody would be looking. And you're gonna stand out because there's gonna be no one on your arm going like, hey, do you really need a double whiskey just because it's open bar? Like, is there any way you could dial it back? I've done this. I've also watched games at the reception bar. There was one I went to where it was like, there were some big games on. So I was like, whatever is posted up here, I don't dance. So I think the dancing part is huge. If you're a dancer. If you're. If you're a confident dancer. Although I. You know, I've said this before, guys that are really, really good dancers, I don't know that I trust them. And so if you're just good enough, like, you feel you like to dance and you're in the meeting, you don't have to be good at it. You just want to be out there. There's going to be a lot of options for you. So I think that's where it pivots to the really positive version of this is. This is a younger wedding. There's likely going to be some women that are there solo. And, I mean, you want to talk about, like, bartending on Valentine's night, that was, like, the best shift ever when you were single, because it was just like, you know, you want to feel alone. You've never felt more alone than when you're out on Valentine's and just add peds to that scenario when you're in a wedding dress. Obviously not.
- [94:39]
Kyle
Table for one on Christmas Eve.
- [94:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [94:40]
Kyle
Right?
- [94:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I mean, this is. This is, like, unbelievable opportunities here. So I think the dancing part of it's great. You Know, mixing in a water isn't bad. Again, we don't know what the age group is.
- [94:54]
Kyle
That's great advice.
- [94:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow. I mean, it's always great advice until you don't want to actually do it. So I. It just is about your confidence. Go in there with the mindset you're going to dominate. You know, don't go in there apprehensive because it's all over in a few hours. And if you go in there like second guessing yourself, being insecure about it and it's a little bit older, you start checking out Minnesota, Golden State, you're like, oh, ants going off and you're over by your side and people are like, you know, it's a wedding. Guy doesn't. What does he. Not even like anybody. Like, why did he get invited? Yeah, I'm kind of talking about myself a little bit right now.
- [95:33]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [95:33]
Ryan Rosillo
So, yeah, I think there's. I think there's a ton of versions where this can go both great or bad. You know, maybe. Maybe you pull a little Wedding Crashers where you dance with a kid sober, hopefully. Yeah.
- [95:47]
Kyle
Get that out of the way early if that's on your list.
- [95:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Right, right. It's like, oh, my God, he said he's so great.
- [95:52]
Kyle
Till Cotton Eye Joe comes out at like 8:30 and do that one. I'm not a dancer, but at this last wedding, I mean, something came over me. I don't know what the hell.
- [96:02]
Ryan Rosillo
I was.
- [96:02]
Kyle
Probably.
- [96:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Probably your wedding?
- [96:04]
Kyle
No, no, the wedding I just went to when I was back in Poughkeepsie. This. This wedding was actually in Brooklyn. But I don't know what the hell happened to me. I was just like towards the end there. And then I started giving the guy a couple requests. I noticed nobody was doing that, so I didn't know if it was okay or just people didn't have the stones to ask him. He played all my stuff. I mean, really, when you see the opportunity to ask for Ride With Me by Nelly and you know it's gonna hit and the DJs on board. I mean, I felt like. Like felt like the king of that Brooklyn warehouse, wherever we were, just for a little time, little short time.
- [96:38]
Ryan Rosillo
That's great. Yeah, that's great to hear. Okay. Chicken Tender Turmoil 59150 Player Comp. Julie Connor from Deering High. Anybody? Okay, apologies for the outrageously lengthy email. All right, right, we're on to you, but wanted your advice on how to handle this lunch event as it will surely be repeated. I went with some friends to a Local, fast, casual place that specializes in chicken tenders. Could it be raising canes? Two of us were ordering the same thing. Three tenders and french fries. Sounds like canes.
- [97:13]
Kyle
Sounds like canes.
- [97:14]
Ryan Rosillo
The tenders are priced something like 3 for 10, 6 for 15. Again, sounds like canes. Shout out to Todd Graves. The fries in regular or large size were similarly mispriced in favor of the larger size. So it only made sense for. For Lucas and I to exploit this pricing loophole and get the six piece with the large fries and then split them. However, here's where the dilemma came. Having been in this establishment many times, we knew the tenders are not uniform like McNuggets, right? Yeah, so you're right about that. But that's. That's part of the adventure. Always fresh, never frozen, but come in varying sizes. We had to decide how to split them up, so before they were served, we set a chicken tender draft order. After some debate, we settled on Lucas choosing 1, 4, and 5, and me choosing 2, 3, and 6. If one of the tenders were significantly tinier than the rest, this would have been bad for me. But that wasn't the case, as the 5 versus 6 was a tough choice. That's great to know that your tender depth was still, you know, pretty strong at 5 and 6. The fries were easy to split as there were too many and. And neither of us really cared how even it was. But wondering, since we may do this again, how would be the fairest way to split the six chicken tenders? How fair would it be? It goes without saying that I love the pod and spending time on a Sunday night writing this message. I kind of think you nailed it. I mean, I don't. Dude.
- [98:38]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [98:39]
Kyle
I have three groups of friends, only one circle. Could I even have them, get them on board to do something like this? Like this silly, but also actually pretty efficient. Like, the two other groups would just be like, what are you, an idiot? Or something like that. And there's only really one. It's probably the LA guys that I could have this sort of fun when we're splitting something at Raven Kane. So.
- [98:58]
Richard Jefferson
Really awesome.
- [98:59]
Worgon
Three groups of friends is a ton good for you.
- [99:02]
Kyle
Well, you got, you know, it's like the regular Poughkeepsie guys, college guys and dudes from out here. I'm just thinking, like, if we were in this situation and I tried to broach this, they'd be like, what the hell's wrong with you? Then they'd be making fun of me for it. But this is really Cool. When everyone buys in. I mean, there's only two of you Guys. Guys. But still, I think that's really neat.
- [99:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Did you have crossover in your group? Is there one guy from one group that the other group actually really likes and is accepted and almost gets excited about his energy?
- [99:29]
Kyle
Yeah. I'd say the best looking guys in each group all linked up nice. And it was just like, so this is our. This is our superhero and that's yours. And yeah, and they like, you know, they got a little side text going on.
- [99:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you think they actually address it? Be like, hey, you're the hottest of the Pipy group and I'm the hottest out of the LA group.
- [99:47]
Kyle
I mean, it only. You only got to be out together for like 10 minutes and it's like, you know, we're talking, like, you know, we're talking about nines here. So, you know, the.
- [99:53]
Ryan Rosillo
You have the chemical re.
- [99:55]
Kyle
I think I got two nines.
- [99:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Wow. I don't think any of those guys have showed up to any of the live shows. Correct.
- [100:05]
Kyle
One of them to the Philly one, but I don't. I don't know how much you saw of them.
- [100:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I think I did. Was busy during that show. Wargon, how about you?
- [100:18]
Worgon
No. None of my friends are nines. What's the question?
- [100:25]
Richard Jefferson
Print the shirt.
- [100:25]
Ryan Rosillo
That wasn't it. But it's a better answer than whatever I was asking, so.
- [100:30]
Worgon
No, when you were describing this, I was like, the only fair way to do this is snake draft. And then he said, it.
- [100:35]
Ryan Rosillo
It.
- [100:35]
Worgon
I think you nailed it. Nothing else left to say.
- [100:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, there could be a six tender combo that, you know, you feel like the depth is in the first three.
- [100:46]
Worgon
Yeah. Unless you're, like taking a knife and like cutting them, which you don't want to be doing. This is the way to do it.
- [100:51]
Ryan Rosillo
You could also order an extra tender.
- [100:53]
Kyle
If you've like 199 or whatever. 299.
- [100:56]
Worgon
You can also just order two, three pieces though, for spending extra money.
- [101:00]
Ryan Rosillo
He was. He felt like the fry loophole was just right, you know, I don't know.
- [101:04]
Kyle
How that this is money.
- [101:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Model, who's the Hatterberg of chicken tenders for raising canes? So I don't like when Van Pelt and I would constantly do drafts on the shows. You know, people were just so obsessed with snake drafts because of fantasy football and fantasy baseball. It's like, well, when it's two guys, I don't think it has to be a snake draft all the time. I used to always like, everybody like, how come you guys don't do Snake drafts? Like, well, it's when it's two people, especially for the dumb that we were doing, it didn't really matter. Like, say you were doing an NBA playoff draft of who could win the entire thing. Right. Actually meant to do that with Ceruti. Didn't do it. Well, there's always 26. You know, if there are three, like, for example, this year, if the three best chicken tenders were OKC, Boston and Cleveland, who knows after. After these game one openers. But you get the point is that the Snake draft does not solve the problem of the fourth team that's picked. And in this case, the Snake draft may not solve the problem of the fourth tender pick. We've got to see the six tenders, and there's not going to be the same six tenders every time you do this. So it sounds like for this case, it worked. And yeah, the number one pick for the tender, more often than not, especially raising canes, like, there's going to be a special one in there. There's going to be just a meaty tender. We like this has the volume of. Of the tenders, five and six combined right now. Like, this is like getting Shaq and fantasy basketball during his prime. So this almost feels unfair.
- [102:35]
Kyle
Drafted, yes. After the gross spurt.
- [102:38]
Ryan Rosillo
I think the lesson in all of this is of all the emails that we've received about different concerns, whether it's a pontoon, boat, utilities. Can I talk to my best friend's ex? You have a friend where you are able to efficiently come to some sort of agreement where both sides feel satisfied. And that, my friend, that's the headline. That, sir, is the ultimate compliment. You don't need our help. We actually need your help. We're going to start forwarding emails to you and your friend about how to resolve conflict because you have figured it out and I imagine great things are in your future. Okay, that was wholesome.
- [103:21]
Worgon
Yeah.
- [103:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Thanks to Oregon. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Jonathan Frias. We are a video podcast on Spotify. We are also on YouTube, so please subscribe and as always, check out the Ryan Rosilla podcast. Ring or Spotify.
- [103:34]
Worgon
They were gonna name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it. So they named me Michael J.
- [104:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Must be 21 and older. Present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 888-87-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.