Quincy Avery (13:37)

What is going on?

Ryan Rosillo (13:39)

Nothing. I want to hear you talk about these quarterbacks in a way that maybe I haven't heard them talked about before. So there's a bunch of different things that I want to get to, but let's just start kind of at the headline stuff. Like how do you, how would you rank the top five guys?

Quincy Avery (13:51)

I would listen, I would start with Kim or I think that he's obviously number one in the class. I think that there's a large cavity between him and anybody else. And then Jackson, Dart Shador, we're going to put them in the same class. And then Tyler Schuck right behind those guys. And those are really like my top four. And I wouldn't have anybody else really in that range of top four, top five. I think it's going to be, I guess we can go Jalen Milro, but I just don't see Jalen Milro as the passer that I think is needed to be successful in the NFL right now. Like when you watch the Alabama games last year, they would try to protect him. And if you're trying to protect the quarterback at the college level, it's going to get really difficult when you have to make a throw on third and seven or just like lead a two minute drive. Those are things that I think are necessary to be a successful NFL quarterback.

Ryan Rosillo (14:44)

You're not going to hear a ton of pushback from me on the last point. I know that you know that. I don't, I don't want to start with Milro. Maybe we'll get into some of that stuff here a little bit, but help those of us that don't see the position the way you do and, and watch the tape the way that you do understand why Cam, it's, it's almost like you ranked the five guys and the second ranked quarterback was a gap. So give me, give me the intangibles. All the stuff that you see with Cam that puts him at the head of this class.

Quincy Avery (15:15)

Well, the thing that allows Cam to be so rated so highly for me is his ability with his arm. Right? And we talk a lot about like how strong is somebody's arm. Well, that is one thing, but he has the ability to throw layered throws with touch, with anticipation. Right. You see a defender between the receiver that he feels is open in him. He's able to get balls up and down in a way that I think is unique in this class. Like he has arm talent that is truly Unique. And you need that unique capability to be successful in the NFL. And he has that. He can throw off platform, he can create, he's off schedule. And he also plays with a freedom in his game that I think you see from the best passers. And I don't want to compare him to Patrick Mahomes, but you see some of the same traits. Now. He's going to have to be a better passer on rhythm in order to be successful in the NFL. But you see flashes of things. And I think that if I'm going to take a guy early on or like people are talking about, with the number one pick, I need to see somebody who can do things that are going to be unique in the NFL and definitely separate them at the college race.

Ryan Rosillo (16:19)

Have you figured out something that you go, okay, this is the. The most important thing at this position. Like, this is mandatory for me to even consider you.

Quincy Avery (16:30)

Confidence, right? That's not a physical skill, but that is the number one thing I think a quarterback has to have. And that's kind of the only reason I even have Shador as a top quarterback, because he has that confidence, right? The confidence to be able to go out there and when things go bad, the ability to bounce back and respond from difficult situations, right? You're going to throw interception, but what is your play that critical errors, like, what do you do in the next drive after you throw that interception? And that mental makeup that Cam has, I think is truly special.

Ryan Rosillo (17:05)

The downside of Cam would feel like it's very fixable, and that would be the, what can I get away with throws, right? And the times were, you know, we can always talk about, like, throwing back across the middle of the field. He pushes that to the limits unlike any other top guy. Like, other guys making those throws, you'd be like, this guy might get benched at halftime, but the. The rest of it is so good with him. I feel like that's the only noticeable knock where just the casual college football observers like, what the hell is he doing? Now, granted, I think there's some similarities in the home Mahomes story where, you know, we understood Mahomes better as a prospect at Tech once he explained and once Kingsbury explained it of like, hey, we were going to give up a million points every single Saturday, so he started to play that way. And it's like, man, I wish I thought about that when I was watching him, because I couldn't believe how reckless he could be at times there. I think some of that applies with Miami and at certain points this season where he had to keep them in these games. But if you have QBs that are like, what did you see there? Can you get that out of them? Is that, is that possible?

Quincy Avery (18:10)

I think that Miami got it out of him as much as they could. Like if you go back and watch Washington State, that film that was like in lackadaisical chill on steroids. So it's, what are we going to be willing to accept and how successful are you going to be with some of those plays? Because I'm, I'm fully confident like that's who he's going to be in the NFL because he's never been a guy who's been able to play with a ton of structure. So if we can have success really early on, I think that we'll see him have a really strong career and be a top tier quarterback. But if he struggles to start out the gate, we're going to have some issues. Because you are who you are. It's in your DNA, right? He wants to play this way. He wants to be off schedule. He wants to let his feet die in the pocket and just flick one out there, rotating his shoulders. There's a discipline to play in the quarterback position that I'm not sure that he has right now. Can he get it? I hope so. I'm not super confident that he'll change a ton in that way.

Ryan Rosillo (19:12)

You must really not like this class because if you are suggesting Jackson and Chidori is based on your tweets alone here, like, it seems like, you know, you're talking about Jackson Shador being a toss up. Let's start with Jackson then, because I saw you essentially agreeing with somebody else about like, hey, once Jackson has his, his one read, then he's, then he's kind of gone. You know what's crazy is like when I didn't love Jalen Hurts as a pro prospect, which I know you and I battled on a little bit because that's your guy, but I felt like at Bama it wasn't an, it was never an arm strength thing. It was kind of one read and then I, I think I'm out of here. Give me a sense of why. Well, maybe you think I'm wrong about that evaluation of Mil or excuse me, Hertz at Alabama. But what is it about like Hertz getting out of that and your reservations of seeing too much of that from Jackson and Lane Tiffan's offense this past.

Quincy Avery (20:10)

Year, I would not only agree with you that that's who Jalen was coming out of college, one read and would often try to take off. He was also like that his rookie year with the Philadelphia Eagles. It was the same thing. Right. So it's not. I'm not disagreeing there. But the thing that Jackson to me is much like Mitch Trubisky. Mitch Trubisky was really, really accurate when he was throwing to his first readings progression. Like he could do that at an elite level. And I think that is what allowed him to get drafted so early. But as his eyes had to work through progression, work right to left or first read, second read and get all the way back to like a backside dig, you would never see an accurate pass. Lane Kiffin is so good that he doesn't have to do it much like the Ohio State quarterbacks. Like, I know people give Ohio State quarterbacks a really difficult time, but it's because Ryan Day does such a good job getting guys open. Same with Lane. That first read is going to be open. He is. It's just incredibly inaccurate. Like working through progressions. And then the same way I talked about Cam in terms of plays after critical error. If we go back to that Florida game, I've never seen a top tier quarterback play worse in a situation where his team needed him after an interception. And he just continued to make the same errors. And that's really concerning for me. So it's like Cam Ward could be a starter. I don't see any other starters in this draft.

Ryan Rosillo (21:37)

You mean first year or long term?

Quincy Avery (21:40)

Long term. Like they're just not going to be starting level quarterbacks. I think anything outside of just Kim Word going in the first round is a massive reach.

Ryan Rosillo (21:50)

Wow. Okay, Shador. Yeah, let's. Let's go.

Quincy Avery (21:58)

Okay. Terms of physical traits, he does have elite arm. He's not quick, he's not fast, doesn't have ability to skip it.

Corey Evans (22:08)

That's fine.

Quincy Avery (22:09)

There's been quarterbacks who've been successful who have lacked those traits. When you see Shador get sacked and there's. He has a bad offensive line. That's the one thing when your offensive line is bad and you get sacked, that is an offensive line issue. Shador Sanders throws the ball behind the line of scrimmage, at the line of scrimmage more than anybody in the nf, anybody in college. But his average time to throw is 2.96. That means he's not processing the other information quickly enough at all. You'll see times where there's free rushers. As somebody who's watching tape, if I see a free rusher Run directly to the quarterback. No one blocks him. That is on the quarterback, right? We need to be throwing hot. We need to have a plan before this Shador, when the defense gives him anything that he wasn't expecting, right, we need to be able to play from the neck up. And that is what his, his biggest strength should be. Like he should be the quarterback in the world. I can recognize these things. I see a hot, I'm able to find a four or five yard completion, the ball out of my hand. It's not playing like that. So if you don't have a strong arm, you're not quick, can't evade defenders. And I'm getting free rush hit like I have a problem. There's an aspect of the game that I don't understand. And then I've heard teams, I've heard teams talk about his interviews and his ability to even describe protections, right? Hey, show me a six man protection. And he struggled with those things. So those are really concerning to me. And I know that he goes in the first round because of all the hype and all the things that we said, but I think if his last name was Williams, he is a six round quarterback.

Ryan Rosillo (23:50)

So it's not the padding of the ball to pro day.

Quincy Avery (23:54)

I could care so little about padding of the football. I think probably 85% of the NFL quarterbacks today Pat the football. It's a rhythm thing, it's a sequencing. It allows guys to throw the football better. And I'm not who should or pat the ball you want, but let's make some decisions a little bit faster. Have an idea of what we're doing when we get to line of scrimmage. Now maybe it's something that he just wasn't coached on and that's hard for me because I don't get to interview the guys. I don't know what they're saying in these meetings about what they were taught, what they should have, should have known going into college. But there's guys that I work with in pre draft who can kill it on the, at least on the whiteboard. And you see it in the games.

Ryan Rosillo (24:36)

Okay, if I wanted to defend Shador because I think I've said throughout this, like at least I know he's tough because he got his ass handed to him for two straight years and then he seemed to have. Maybe I'm being a little theatrical about it, but just that he seemed to have a flair for like the dramatic. Maybe I'm thinking about the Colorado State game too much, but that it's like, man, there's not really much else that we can count on. Like, can you just get back there and survive long enough to make some kind of play? You're absolutely right. The number. Once I saw what the number was and throws the line of scrimmager behind, it's staggering. Like, you're like, man, that's why anybody that wants to throw around completion percentage is a true indication of whether or not a quarterback's accurate. Like, it's over. It's been over for years. You're gonna stop doing that with college QBs. But I don't know, some people still seem to fall for that every now and then. And he had awesome receivers, right? So he had, he had awesome receivers. So that. And we're not even just talking about 100. Like they. I felt like they had like four dudes that were all out there making plays. Whenever you would watch them play. Is, Is there enough in the. I sound like I'm making excuses, but I'm just wondering how it would be argued in the room. Like, oh, hey, everything Quincy said is right. Like you're at the other end of the table. Like you're, you're right. But you know, he got his ass handed to him the entire time. He answered the bell every single time. Like the guy's a competitor, you know, Then you start going into things that may not matter as much. Like, comes from a great lineage, you know, like, right, because we know winning games, winning games in college or losing games, games like anytime. Like, oh, Kellen Moore won all these games, all right, Tebow won all these games. It's like, dude, it won't, it doesn't. Like, it's a nice thing to say in the room, but it doesn't really eliminate or bump up college QBs, depending on what's going on. I'm just. That's a staggering statement from you to say that he'd be. If he's, if he's Shador Williams, he's a sixth rounder. Like, that's. That sounds crazy. In the buildup to what's coming up here with the draft, he's tough as shit.

Quincy Avery (26:28)

He is a tough dude. And like you talked about, he had the flair for theatrics. You see those games where he really started to do really good things. It's like two minute offense. What is the defense side doing a two minute offense. They're not bringing pressure. Like he has time to see things and operate. He can play like that. If he doesn't get pressure and the line does A sufficient job, he's okay. But if I know that he has a difficult times with seeing blitzes and seeing rotation and these guys coming and hitting him in his face mask, that's going to be the. That's going to be the answer in the NFL. But he, He's a winner. Like, there's somebody. But okay, what NFL coaching staff wants to draft a guy? Because if you're drafting early, you're not that good, so you don't have that much time left. You know, his father's Deion Sanders. All the scrutiny you're going to get, not just about his play, but his dad's also going to stir some things up. And then I got to worry about Deion trying to take my job. Like, there's so many things that make it difficult for me to see. Like, I know people say dabbing Deion's helpful, but I, I think that it's like opposite. If I'm the New York Giants, if I'm day ball and I got to put this guy hit, that's not a good situation.

Ryan Rosillo (27:42)

Yeah. Hearing about how much you suck. Shador struggling week 11. Yeah, that's. I don't think it's like, out of the question that that could happen. Okay, let's talk Chuck, who's kind of the. The late comer to the process. He's been at a few different spots, but I think it was always just kind of in the quest of like, hey, how many of these guys? I mean, sometimes you just have a bad class. And it sounds like that's what we're ramping up towards here. But break him down for us.

Quincy Avery (28:09)

Tyler is a really good. He's a much better athlete than, I think that people know. He understands the game at a really high level. And when you watch him in the red zone, and that's where I love to see guys, especially at the college level, players in the red zone. He's able to make a ton of throws with anticipation. You'll see, like, back line where it's outside receiver, running a dig. And we see this and he's able to move a defender with his eyes and work back. Like, he's playing the game of quarterback. Like he's playing the quarterback position. He understands what I need to do in order to set guys up to be successful. He doesn't have the strongest arm. He's athletic enough. He's very accurate, and he's played a lot of football. I think that is something that gives guys a tremendous advantage is the amount of steps they got. They got to Play, and we see that a lot this class. But he has been. He's gotten continually better, right? We've seen him improve. I saw him at Texas Tech. I've seen him since he was in high school continue to become a better passer and a better quarterback. So I think that he has an opportunity to be in the NFL for a very long time.

Ryan Rosillo (29:13)

Okay, so we touched on some of the Milro stuff here. The lead up to this is always ridiculous, right? We watch him out for a couple years, and now in the months that he's not playing, his stock has never been higher, which should be the first warning we can get to some of the pro day stuff. I asked somebody the other day, I was like, when's the last time we've heard people not like, the pro day from the quarter quarterback? When's the last time it was like, man, that pro day wasn't really that good. The only two that I got in a few texts was Teddy Bridgewater and Matt Ryan.

Quincy Avery (29:47)

Neither one of those are good. I know people really liked. I didn't love Cam wars pro day. That was not a pro day that I was like, oh, I love this. I saw like, some outbreakers, some things on rhythm that weren't thrown great. Skipped a couple. He threw probably six or seven routes over. That's not something I feel like if you're throwing rots on the air, you should be 100%. But I've seen them do it in the game, so I just think that it's scrutinized less than it probably should be. Like, if I. If I was on TV talking about these pro days, it wouldn't be like all roses and, hey, man, that was just really good. But I think that these people care so much about saying good things about produce.

Ryan Rosillo (30:26)

I saw one kid tweet, he's like, he was the media member, I guess, and he was like, I'm literally shaking after this pro day because it was so impressive. And I was like, well, if you're shaking, shaking at pro day, then you should. You should do something else.

Quincy Avery (30:39)

It's a test you created. How do I up a test I created? Like, I literally went through it. It's an open book test. I got the answers there. I've. I've worked this script, the script that we're about to run. I've worked that for the last three weeks. The exact throws, the same people, the same order. And I know people are like, oh, he's moving out the spot. I did, hey, we talked about, hey, we're going to move left two steps and then we're going to push everything is the most scripted situation that it could be, right?

Ryan Rosillo (31:06)

You've done this. Like you're not. When people see you criticizing some stuff on the prote film and then you're like, yeah, but this guy is also part of his job. When he's had quarterbacks that are prepping for this, he's orchestrated all of this with the program. So like he's kind of a tough guy to go at on this very specific thing, right? When I see a clip of like a 60 yard post completed against no one and then it's like, man, he hit him in stride. Be like, do you not understand? Like that's what it's supposed to look like every. You can't screw that throw up. You just have to throw it up in the air and the guy runs under like, this is not that complicated. But having said all of those things, like there was, I. I don't know if it was a Shador throw on one of the pro day deals where everybody loved it and you were like, that's not what you guys think it is.

Quincy Avery (31:58)

Like going to his left, getting flat and flipping his hips like the one Zach Wilson does, right? I think that's the one I'm talking about. Zach Wilson's was harder because he threw it the other way. But that's a really easy throw. And there's people who get enamored by this. Like, who cares? And are you going to do that in the game? No. So I don't. We can keep doing this in pro days because they made a big deal and Zach Wilson did it and they. People been doing it for a ton of ton of time, but it's, it's silly.

Ryan Rosillo (32:26)

Okay. So I kind of jumped over the Milro part of it. That always would alarm me. Like if you're sitting there deciding to make a decision, it's like, how could somebody who was. Although, look, I'm interrupting myself here on this one. I was losing my mind after the Georgia game because Melrose was great against Georgia, puts up huge numbers. And then you had guys at ESPN like suggesting not only is he a first round pick, he could, could be in the conversation for QB1. And I'm like, okay, this is. Now I'm mad. I'm like, now I'm mad. And then, you know, people turn in and be like, what do you get against this guy? And it's like, I don't even have anything against him. I have everything against the evaluation because I've watched So many of their games because look, I just like watching Bama games. Like who wouldn't want to watch them play football? This is kind of crazy to me that there are the rumors that there are about where he is with this class. Well, I don't really think much tape to back up any of this stuff. Forget first rounder.

Quincy Avery (33:23)

I, I don't see like I can cut on the tape. I can watch it over and over and over again. But it's not just when you watch a game and you realize that someone's staff, someone who got to see them practice every single day since the summer they just had a first round quarterback. I watched that same offensive staff with Michael Pennix. Top tier receivers, they didn't have a running back this year and they're scared to throw. Like this isn't an offense, it's not built around throwing. They wanted to throw the football and they didn't want to do it because he was a quarterback. So I mean that the proof is in the pudding in terms of the people who got to see him the most did not have the same faith in him that these people who are like reporting on his draft stock had.

Ryan Rosillo (34:16)

So many mocks have him in the first round. So let me, let me do this. Let's try to find a way to be nice about this. If your team of a fan of the team that drafts him, how do you salvage it? What is there that could make this work?

Quincy Avery (34:31)

There are some really creative things that you can do in the QB run game that I think can stress the defense out enough where he can become a good enough passer where he can start to figure some things out.

Ryan Rosillo (34:42)

Right. Because he's not a good runner. He is a great like it is. It's insane seeing it in person.

Quincy Avery (34:48)

He does special things. He's explosive, he has long speed, he's his short quickness. He's an amazing athlete and we can like really run him. In a situation where people have to like make real decisions about how do we put eight guys in the box and we start getting eight guys in the box then the receivers in the NFL are good enough to win against man to man and if he can be accurate enough to make good to make solid throws, he doesn't have to make great throws but he's going to put defense in a position where they have to be. You have, they have to show their cards early because they're going to be so concerned about the run fits that he's going to cause in the quarterback run game. So if you get Them. If you have an offensive set that's really creative, you can hope that one day he becomes like a Marcus Mariota, right? Not a great passer, but he did enough in terms of the run game that it made it difficult for defenses where he had a. He's had a really successful NFL career.

Ryan Rosillo (35:42)

Are you worried about Caleb Williams at all?

Quincy Avery (35:46)

I would have been far more worried about Caleb Williams if he didn't have the offensive staff that he has now. Because I think that Caleb did not have the structure in order to be successful. And you saw that with his drops. You saw that with his eyes. He spent a lot of time where you'd see his eyes go from the left side of the field and just shoot to the right. And that should never happen, right? Because our progressions are not worked where we start on the left side of the field outside the numbers, and work all the way to the right side of the field outside the numbers. So either there was a level of confusion with the way that he was coached, where he started his eyes in the wrong spot, or they didn't give him good enough answers where he could see things early on throughout his drop. So Ben Johnson's going to do a fantastic job in terms of getting him under center. I think he's going to have the ability to have more play action scheme where he's able to move the defense early on with run action and see a very clear picture.

Ryan Rosillo (36:47)

In your years of working with Elite 11. And it's really one of my favorite things I do all year long because how smart all of you guys are. Like it. This is sports. We get so much stuff wrong. I find those few hours with the staff and watching the kids throw, like the hit rate that you guys have on the stuff that you'll tell me is unbelievable. Like, I. There's nothing that is. I'm serious, man. Like, that's why I always, like, kind of after the fact, I'm like, all right, you know this. Like, I remember rolling in thinking like, oh, this guy's this. And they're like, nope, no, he isn't. I'm like, what? I'm like, you'd have to be kidding me. I mean, it's happened with a bunch of different quarterbacks. Is there someone on the positive side of this, like, what you had early? And you're like, that guy's a pro. That guy's a first round pick. I'm sure it's happened a lot because you guys get everything.

Quincy Avery (37:33)

C.J.

Kyle Wargon (37:33)

Stroud.

Quincy Avery (37:34)

C. Yeah. C.J. stroud would probably be the best example of that. And C.J. stroud was actually someone who came into the League 11, very, very undervalued. No one saw like, the talent. He's actually our last pick in terms of getting into the 22 guys who get to come and doodle down to 11 guys. He was someone who is a mental makeup. Made it very easy for us to say, like, he's. He's going to be a first round quarterback. I've never seen someone so consistently do every single thing right in terms of like preparation, the little details of the playbook. He knew everything going in. He studied. He'd been through adversity. And that is a huge thing when you want to talk about quarterbacks. Who has been through adversity and has been able to make it out on the other side. He had that and then he threw the ball with a level of confidence. You know, sometimes you'll see a quarterback throw a football and it looks like he hopes the guy catches it. CJ Stroud threw every single ball and it was like, I know this is going to be exactly where it needs to be. And all this guy has to do is his job. And we saw that from him at 17 years old. Continued to see it throughout his college career. And it was funny, I think about his first start against the University of Minnesota, and he just struggled a little bit to start the game and his ability to just be resilient enough to come back and win that game. I was like, all right, we're good. He's going to be exactly who we think he is. And he had a bunch of top tier. He had. I think when yours was buying that year and people were like, yo, we gotta get. He was like, no, I got it. And. And that mental toughness. And seeing this last year where people say he struggled a little bit. And I think that if you really dig in the film, you'd have some different thoughts, but that let me know, like, that difficult year. He's going to be even better this upcoming season.

Ryan Rosillo (39:27)

You want to talk about that third and seven thing you brought up, which is always kind of my standard rule with college guys trying to figure out, like, can this guy play on Sundays? And seeing some of this stuff, even what could be perceived as a down year for season, because I think it was so incredible, like, you're not supposed to be that good your rookie year and the fact that he was after Bryce and all that kind of stuff. But, like, I would still see throws this year where I'm like, there's no, like, they're screwed. And then he finds a way. And it's not just about escapability or anything like that or getting into a throwing lane. It's just the zip on and still an accurate ball at the sticks. There's a. There's a throw I'm thinking about to Nico right now where he hits him on the sideline and converts.

Quincy Avery (40:08)

It's on the right side of the field. I know exactly which throw you're talking about. And it's not just energy or wish he threw it. It's how early he threw that ball with energy to have that level of anticipation. And Nico hasn't even started to come out of his break yet. And then put his foot in the ground and just rip that sheet like the one that takes. That takes a set of nuts, right, to throw that ball in that situation. We don't get this first down here, we lose the game. He does so many things that I'm like, not worried about him one bit. He's going to be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL for a very long time.

Ryan Rosillo (40:44)

God, I feel like I could do this all day with you right now. I'm having so much fun. But there's two things that I want to get to. Is Lagway definitely the best quarterback in college going into next year?

Quincy Avery (40:54)

Yeah, I think he's really good. But Duke has a quarterback who transferred from Tulane, Baran Mensa, who I think has the ability to be the best quarterback in college. But right now, if I had to say, here's my best quarterback, I'm gonna go with Garrett Nussmire. Garrett Nussmire plays the game on time. He plays the game with anticipation. And he can do off schedule things. Right. That's the thing that separates, I think, really good college guys from guys who can be great in the NFL. Can you play on schedule? And then when things break down, do you have the ability to do something special? And Garrett has all those things?

Ryan Rosillo (41:30)

When we booked you, I had forgotten that this was in the works, but it's happening. The Quincy avery effect. Hulu, April 23 I've seen some of the taglines on this. This is big, man. This is a big deal. And obviously I'm really happy for you, getting to know you over the years. But what is this going to be about?

Quincy Avery (41:50)

No, I'm, I'm super excited. So it's, it's really my story. And I think that people see me now and they see like quarterback, coach, train the top NFL guy, but it's really more of A story like perseverance and all the things that it took to get the. To the spot that I'm at. Like, I was. I was essentially homeless for over a thousand. A thousand days throughout my life. It was like, this ability to not quit and, like, be resilient when things get really, really difficult and you're facing hard times, like, how do you keep pushing through and really knowing where you're trying to get through? And I think that a lot of times people will say things, and then actions are not. Not aligned with the things that they said. And I think that when you get to see my story, you get to see someone who's just like, hey, I said that I'm gonna get this thing. And every single thing that I did was working towards that end goal. Like, I said, I wanted to be the best quarterback trainer in the world. And everything that I did was, like, put all my energy into that basket, no plan B. And was resilient enough to wait out my time in order to get my first. My first client. And then that first client was Joshua Dobbs, who's playing for the New England Patriots right now. And it was. It's just been a long run, but I'm thankful to be where I'm at.

Ryan Rosillo (43:13)

I'm happy for you. This is a big deal. Again, April 23, the Quincy Avery effect. That'll be on Hulu, Our guy from the QB takeover. And of course, hopefully get to see him out here with the Elite 11. Thanks, man. Story popped up recently in basketball, and you've been hearing more and more about this at the college level with everything that's going on, is that they need more people to help evaluate rosters, and general managers are becoming a normal thing in college basketball. And joining us now, it's Corey Evans, spent a bunch of years with the OKC Thunder and is now the GM of the Cincinnati Bearcats men's basketball team. So. Good morning, man. Good to see you.

Kyle Wargon (43:50)

Good to see you, too, Ryan. I appreciate you guys having me on.

Ryan Rosillo (43:53)

So before we get kind of into, like, the headliney transition part of this whole thing, I know about your background, but I just want to share it because younger people will ask me, like, hey, how do I get in? What do I need to do? And I'll. I'll use, like, McShay as an example. Bruce Feldman, who worked with us in college football, who understood, like, the BCS better than everybody else, is that it's. It's obviously a crowded field that you're competing with, but if you can find a way to kind of separate yourself or provide value, then it opens up all sorts of doors. And I think you're a perfect example of that where you just kind of took it upon yourself early in the basketball world to just try to get noticed and provide value for hopefully having the position you have now. So let's go back to that.

Kyle Wargon (44:34)

Yeah, it's been a long, long process for sure. I would say. I, I, I, I had some mistakes along the way for sure. And that's why I tell a lot of young folks getting in the business when you're young, make some mistakes, learn and grow, and that's how you get better and figure out what your niche is. I learned early on that relationships were the most important thing in all of the world. Right. Your line of work, my line of work, anything in general. So starting out to be, to go back about 15 years, I graduated from Old Dominion. I was actually roommates with Kent Bazemore on the NBA side. So it's funny how it all works. And I actually developed some inroads with T.J. mcConnell when he was in high school. And I actually got on staff for a year, Duquesne, and I'm actually from Pittsburgh as well. So it was amazing, right? Like you're right out of college, you're 21 years old, you're back home at Duquesne. I'm 10 minutes away from my parents, I'm coaching, teaching at McConnell. It's we're going to do this real fast, right? Like we're ready to rock and roll. And a year later we go to 17, 15 and we get fired. So I found out very, very fast how the business of college athletics and everything in line in the world works. And it's all about winning in the bottom line. So I was fired, we were fired on staff there and I wanted to get back into college basketball and coaching. That was always the pathway for myself that I saw. But I also didn't want to put myself in the spot where a year from then I'd be fired again or go to a place that wasn't conducive for learning and growing and impacting in the right manner. So on a whim, I picked up a scouting service. I created my own college scouting service. First year or two, I had about 20 programs on board. I was charging about 200 bucks a piece. So you can figure that out. A lot of long days, a lot of long nights, living in my parents basement there, living in the car on the road. But I just love what I was doing, you know, when you Have a passion. It doesn't really matter. When you're that young, you don't know better. Right. But making my way into the industry, I just loved figuring out how people worked and developing the right relationships and it was authentic. And I think after a while when you're consistent and you work hard and you build that, the right rapport with people, it just keeps building and building and building.

Ryan Rosillo (47:14)

Okay. I, I love this because at some point you have to decide, like, I love basketball. And then because I love basketball, it's like, well, then I know who the good players are and who the bad players are. Which is, you know, one of those things where like, I remember the first time I thought I could do it, I was 14, because I couldn't believe Tate George was a first round draft pick. Yeah. And I'm like, I can't believe, like, you know, nice, nice run at Yukon. But like, can't believe a team like you would do this, would actually think that. And so there's, there's a delusion that you talk to of being younger. So did you, did you have it? Did you know what it was like? I almost want you to evaluate yourself as an evaluator when you started off. Because when you're young, you just think you're like, oh, this guy sucks, this guy's awesome, and I'm so smart and everybody else is an idiot. And then you go through it enough, you're like, this is really hard start.

Kyle Wargon (48:00)

It's almost at 10,000 hour rule. Right. And it's osmosis. It's just being around the game of basketball. The McConnell thing and the Ken Bazemore thing helped me immensely. Right. You have two guys that are the underdog, that have no reason to be in the NBA for 10 years. And you're on the ground floor seeing it every day. So you have that along with the work ethic, along with making mistakes, along with being self aware enough to say, I better hurry the hell up, man. I'm not where I need to be to be where I want to be. So you keep investing every day and around the game and watching and watching and watching. There was a half. I think you can relate naivety to it all. So you'll know what you don't know. But you also are self aware enough and hardworking enough and humble enough to be open to being, not being afraid with being the dumbest guy in the room and keep learning and keep giving and keep trying to be around better people. That might teach you.

Ryan Rosillo (49:16)

Yeah. I remember when I started in Boston and it was like the first. First time I was getting access to front office people. And I go to the Portsmouth invitational, I think 2003, and I just was so obsessed with this idea that there was a lens that I didn't understand. There was this lens that you would watch the game through that once you learned that trick, that then you would be able to do this or have one of these jobs. And I keep asking everybody, and one thing about asking people with a very specific career is that some people will try to make it seem harder than it is to kind of become more impressive. Right. But the guys that I trusted and the guys that ended up being right to your point were like, there's not really any necessarily, like a secret. Like, you either figure it out or you don't. But really you just have to keep watching. You have to just keep watching over and over again, because then when the things that are special, you'll notice it in a way that just feels natural and it just becomes second nature. So your whole osmosis thing, I think, is absolutely the. The point. I mean, there's some people that could just watch a ton of basketball. They're never, ever going to figure it out, but there isn't. I guess the lesson that I've learned in 20 plus years of watching is that I don't know that there's some magic trick to this whole thing. So clearly, whatever it was or whatever this thing that we're trying to define, that's difficult to define, whatever that is, you've been good enough at it to then end up with a Thunder. So what was that moment like when you know you have what's considered one of the best front offices in the business, reaching out for your services.

Kyle Wargon (50:50)

Yeah. Going back on that, Sam Pressy always said, I'm going to bat.300 and you might bat.280. So he's going to be wrong a lot, too. So you just might as well just stick to what you believe in and what you see. And as long as you've done the work, hey, I'm going to get something wrong. You're going to get some wrong. And you can look back at the Oklahoma City Thunder drafting, and it's been amazing. But there's also been some misses there as well. But I think a large portion of that is situational base. Right. You have some players that like a Trey Mann for us from Oklahoma City. He's more than good enough. He's an NBA player. But the situation might not have been conducive enough for his role and for his abilities, he's definitely a top 300 player in the NBA. It's just with our roster construction, it wasn't meant to be. So learning that and learning how to specify a role and making sure that they're above a certain threshold elsewhere makes them good enough, I hope. But going back in the Oklahoma City thing, it's funny how it all works. I work with a good buddy of mine, Pete Thamel, who was at Yahoo Sports when I was at Rivals. And Pete was actually the editor at the Daily Orange at Syracuse. When Carmelo went On the run in 01, I think it was. And at the time, Troy Weaver was the coach responsible for recruiting him to Syracuse. So Troy and Bammel developed a great rapport for 20 years, and Pete and I got very close and one thing led to the next and he connected me with Troy Weaver and Troy and I developed inroads to a certain extent over a two, three year time frame. And that is what kind of led me to Sam Presley and Oklahoma City Thunder. Eventually, I think Sam wanted someone on the ground floor. Sam called me up one day in USA at USA Basketball in Colorado Springs and said, corey, would you like to meet tomorrow you in Colorado Springs? Dot do. Do. This is Sam. I'm like, who the hell is Sam? Like, what, what, what runner is this now? Like, what, what middleman is this? So it's Sam Precy. And we talked for about four or five hours the next day about where things were going. And it was a couple months after he traded for Shay Gil. And it was a vision in place he had. He was very resolute with where things were going to go as far as not a complete tear down, but that we just traded Paul George for four first round draft picks, a guy named Shay Gilders Alexander who could be really good in the NBA, and that we might have more draft picks on the way. And we need someone on the ground floor that knows the whole industry, that knows the people in the industry, that knows how the kids think and work. And you know, I got to thinking, hey, is this the right step for me? It was not an immediate yes. When you become comfortable with where you are and you feel like you're among the very best in your industry, it's a jump, right? You want to jump over that ledge and burn the boats in a sense, but are you ready for it? And ultimately, again, Ryan, like, looking back on it, what a dumbass, right? Like, why would, why wouldn't you have done that, man? It's, it's with where things are now, but at the time you're going back and forth of is this the right move or not?

Ryan Rosillo (54:30)

Now, Sam's probably. I don't know if I doubt Sam will listen to this, but, like, can you guys talk about Cincinnati and not talk about how we do things? But I do, I do have to ask because I just have so much respect for Sam and what I've loved about the approach of, you know, building a roster where guys, when they have the ball in their hands are okay with it, you know, making sure that. And you can just see like even the Usman Jang pick, I was like, you know, that kind of makes sense for the way they see what they want and how they want to build out their roster. But is there anything that you could share with us as a. Because I do want to pivot to Cincinnati here. Is there anything in all the years of being in the room with a Presti or somebody else where it's like, okay, this way they look at bat or something that was said. You feel like this now will influence the way I think about roster building or just evaluation of players?

Kyle Wargon (55:25)

I could talk about that for an hour. To be in that room with Sam Presti and Rob Hennigan, former GM of the Magic and now AC Law, the former A and M star, they have. They know where they're going and they know what they want. And it's about processing. It's about positional size and versatility. And the most important part is intel. I didn't understand why we were digging so much as far as the person and the character and who's around the person. And that has been transformational for me. Moving ahead is, you know, Oklahoma City is not la, it's not Miami, it's not New York. So the right person has to be in mind before the right player has to be in mind. So how does the person tick? Who's behind them? What's his. Why does he care about winning? What's his habits? Is it a two parent household or is there an accountability figure behind him that you know, when shit comes at him, how is he going to respond? Is it the first time in his life that he's being held accountable? And in the NBA that's the first time you're going through that it's going to be hard to succeed.

Ryan Rosillo (56:47)

When you think about your role now in helping build out a college roster, how much of that, I mean, I could sit here and say, how much does this apply? And you're going to say, oh, all of it applies, applies, and all that Stuff, but give me kind of a breakdown of like the questions you asked yourself about making this change of like, what will be the same and what will be different.

Kyle Wargon (57:08)

You know, Ryan, ultimately I'd like to get back to an NBA front office as a gm. So it was a matter of is this before all else making this move? Will it educate me? Is it apples to apples or apples to oranges? Right. I don't know that right now. I'm a few weeks in and is flying everywhere, so. But the most important thing was I've always been a person that does not want to be complacent. I want to grow, I want to learn. But most of all, I want to impact people's lives for the better. And that's the coaches, the support staff and the players themselves. And I knew making this jump, the scouting life is not the easiest in the world. It's very lonely at times, rightfully so. You're doing 200 days in the road. To be a part of the fabric of a team directly was the one thing that I was most looking forward to. And Cincinnati has all the resources, has all the right people in place. It was a matter of can I come in and help these people out, alleviate some of the excess BS that has kind of added up over the past few years on these coaches laps and help be that switch to propel them from bubble team to national contender.

Ryan Rosillo (58:34)

How will you have to change your evaluation process from can this guy play in the NBA to could this just be a nice piece off the bench for Cincinnati with the portal?

Kyle Wargon (58:45)

It's hard.

Ryan Rosillo (58:45)

It's.

Kyle Wargon (58:46)

It's. We're turning down players that in Oklahoma City I was all about like, let's, let's get this guy. Let's get this guy's rigging our draft board to now. It's. We need guys are going to win right now. And that was the hardest jump for me from high school to the NBA or college to the NBA was looking five years down the road or six years down the road. When you're in the NBA and you're evaluating a player at 18 years old, you're more so trying to predict where they're going to be from 25 to 28 their core years in college. You're watching a guy in the portal. Where is he going to be next year and how's that jump up immediately? It's all about the immediate returns compared to Oklahoma City where it's way down the road. So that's been very, very difficult. Is trying to. And the. The word you Use lens, trying to have that lens evolve a little bit, but like that. So I'm jumping on a, on a car on the autobahn with my hiring process and trying to change my lens with my vision in place all at the same time has not been easy. But the key fundamentals that I want and the staff wants is it kind of goes back to the Thunder process. Shooting intel, good human being, hard working nature and processing.

Ryan Rosillo (60:21)

In your role in the NBA, I mean, it's very clear there's a directive. With the growth of the GM role in college. It's feels like it's fairly understood that you're reporting to West Miller. Right. Like you, you have a head coach who's, who's kind of the face of it, even if it feels like it's the opposite in professional sports. So what is that structure like right now? And it is interesting to think like imagine in 10 years if in college basketball, college football, like the GM is actually like the GM in the way it is in pro sports. But we're certainly not there right now.

Kyle Wargon (60:55)

Yeah, I think we'll eventually get there potentially. Andrew Luck is a totally different. That's, that's way outside, but that's a one and only. It's a unicorn right there. Wes and I had known each other for 15 years probably, so having that relationship where we're in a way tied at the hip has definitely been beneficial. There's already been days that we're cussing each other out, but I don't really see him as my boss in a sense. I see him as we're on the same team together and we have the same buy in and all we want is to build a winning team here in Cincinnati. And it's year five. The last four years they've been knocking at the door. And my only goal here is to help those guys get to where they want to go, which is the NCAA tournament and beyond.

Ryan Rosillo (61:45)

I guess in a way you could look at it as even if I had in this role, like, I'm not saying, like, hey, you know, we had the bad year, but like, you can kind of just start all over again, you know, like, hey, this guy's under contract for three or four years. So how different do you think this is? I mean, we've already talked about the evaluation part of it, but how different it is when you're. It just feels like the off season now on the portals, like just let's see what we can get and we'll see how it goes, which is very different. In a very quick amount of time from the traditional sense of recruiting and wondering what a player is going to be like in his junior year. And of course, if he's really special, he's not going to be there that long anyway.

Kyle Wargon (62:25)

But yeah, Ryan, you and I are probably similar where we grew up with college basketball and we were fixed on one program in particular, right? And we love the following. One prospect along the path that's gone now and it's never coming back potentially. Maybe, maybe it's a two year thing with employment, whatever it might be. But the, the promising side is you saw what happened at Louisville last year. You saw what happened at Kentucky. Missouri went 019 sec play and they were a top five team in the league last year. So we've lost a few players and it's also given us leeway to have the vision in place and not be boxed in with who we have in our roster. So we're pretty excited about who we have coming back and it allows us to pinpoint specifically our needs and also have some wiggle room. As far as not being boxed in with a player or a prototype or a position.

Ryan Rosillo (63:30)

I would agree on one of the things that you had said there. Not that I'm disagreeing with the other points, but you're right. Like I grew up loving the Big east and loving the story and, and going like I man, you know, they got this kid and you know, just the excitement of the unknown, which is a huge thing in basketball. But we know that this, this sport is changing and it's changing really rapidly here. We just had Billis on and I could say, hey, look, there's things I may not like, but if I'm being honest or being fair about it, I have to go, well, this is, this is what players deserve and have deserved for a long time. So with your love of, of college hoops, is there anything that you think can be recaptured as we navigate the uncertainty of what we've seen over the last few years with the Nil being a free for all with the Portal, which again, I don't have any sympathy for the programs on the portal stuff because like if you're losing guys, you're asking for somebody else's guys. So it feels somewhat hypocritical to me, but do you think there's anything from the thing that you love so much about this sport that is even possible to recapture?

Kyle Wargon (64:38)

I would just say it might even be better now where any given year it's a what if every year in the past it was another down year or we're waiting till we get old. And now it's like we can turn this around in an off season. So it makes things much more transient in a sense. And there's more questions at hand and it's very ambiguous, this whole industry, but it also allows, I'm sure after last year, Missouri fans, what are they saying? Oh, get rid of Coach Gates and this and that. And now six, eight months later, they're, they're one of the best teams in America. So as long as the right coaching staff is in place and the right athletic department is there behind those guys with alignment, I think the what if and the hope of being a Florida and Auburn, it's, it's always available. So you're going to have the non traditional blue bloods have a chance to actually make a run here. You see BYU now in our league. You see Iowa State now in our league. Auburn, Florida, Alabama. And we're hoping to be one of those schools as well.

Ryan Rosillo (66:00)

Do kids know what Cincinnati basketball was at its peak? Does that resonate with them at all?

Kyle Wargon (66:07)

I think that's our job to remind them and give them a hint. You have Kenya Martin, Nick Van Exel and even the Big O. The tradition is unbelievable, as we know. So it's about rekindling that, but it's also about, we're now in the Big 12, we're in a major basketball league. We're not what it was five, six, seven, eight years ago. So this is the third year of Cincinnati being in the Big 12. So it's kind of like, let's create our own tradition, our new tradition. Let's look back at what it was yesteryear and now let's kind of catapult ourselves further based off what we were and now what we can be.

Ryan Rosillo (66:48)

I would suggest then perhaps having a Melvin Levitt night.

Kyle Wargon (66:54)

I'll write that down for future use.

Ryan Rosillo (66:57)

I would just like Melvin to be celebrated at some point in the future because those highlight clips were just filthy. I mean, you want to talk about a guy who you were like, I don't care. I'm just going to watch Melvin Levitt tonight because it's Cincinnati and they're on.

Kyle Wargon (67:12)

You can throw a little James White in there, too. I mean, we have some high flyers for sure, so we can bring back some physicality and blue collar with also some finesse and athleticism.

Ryan Rosillo (67:24)

Okay, so we had one. I did a little background. It was one intel question from your former colleagues with the Thunder.

Kyle Wargon (67:32)

Yeah.

Ryan Rosillo (67:33)

And I'm supposed to ask you, have you, have you found a New protein bar that you like in with a relocation because people were perhaps worried that you weren't going to have the same surplus.

Kyle Wargon (67:45)

Can I get some kickback here off the name the David Protein Bar? I mean, that's all I'm saying. So you should look it up. 25 protein, 150 calories. It's top notch, brother.

Ryan Rosillo (67:57)

Hey, man, I'm really fired up for you. It's a cool story, and I know there's bigger things to head, but this is. I just. When I saw it come through, and I was like, I'm just really interested in. In what this job is like now because it's. It's still sort of new. So wishing the best of luck in Cincinnati. All right.

Kyle Wargon (68:13)

I appreciate Ryan. Thank you. You want details?

Corey Evans (68:18)

Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

Ryan Rosillo (68:22)

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

Quincy Avery (68:27)

I have every toy you can possibly imagine.

Corey Evans (68:29)

And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible.

Ryan Rosillo (68:35)

Let me tell you what's required. Our email address, lifeadvicermail.com Ceruti is not in the building, but a congratulations to he and his lovely wife on kid number two. So that was what was in the mix. So happy for them. And we don't know when he's coming back. He might jump in and then leave again or something. So you take your time, buddy.

Corey Evans (69:01)

Yeah, I. I have a vacation coming up, and it's just poor planning. You know, I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to work out perfectly, but, you know, babies come when babies come, so he's scrambling. It's my fault, but what can you do? I did get some new luggage yesterday, and I got to say, I feel awesome. I was working with some, like, kind of a patch job. You know, I got a. I got the Samsonite backpack to go with it, and I gotta say, I can't wait to be strolling through LAX with that thing. I'm excited. I've been hand me down luggage forever, and now it's like a real. Got a hard case. It's good stuff.

Ryan Rosillo (69:36)

Wow. Yeah. Look out, look out. Are you going overseas? Cause you probably just get. They'll just wave you right in.

Corey Evans (69:41)

No, I'm just gonna do two weeks in the crowd. Jewel and I don't know, it's gonna be. Got my buddies open it up like a bar restaurant. I got a wedding, and there's like, another thing in between. They were like 10 days apart, and.

Ryan Rosillo (69:52)

I'm like, you know, What?

Corey Evans (69:52)

I'll just take two weeks right at the end of the NBA season. What could go wrong?

Ryan Rosillo (69:57)

Yeah, what could go wrong? So you're out for the beginning of the playoffs. While ser. Is also. So you're just going to be off the show. Serious. Going to be off the show.

Corey Evans (70:03)

Well, I, I, I would do life advice because that's normal times, you know. I think BS Pod's a little more erratic when it comes to. We gotta do stuff right now. East coast hours be a little tough for me, so you gotta take vacation sometime, I guess. I don't know. We'll see.

Ryan Rosillo (70:18)

Hey, Wargon.

Ceruti (70:23)

Hey, guys.

Ryan Rosillo (70:27)

Maybe just you and I fire off a couple episodes.

Ceruti (70:29)

Hey, who says no?

Ryan Rosillo (70:31)

Yeah, I'll listen. I love it. This is not me.

Ceruti (70:36)

I'll tell you who says no. Everyone who listens to this.

Corey Evans (70:39)

No, no, no, no, you're wrong.

Ryan Rosillo (70:41)

I'll be honest. I'm ready to test drive it. I. Who knows what'll happen? I'm ready to do it. Okay, actually, we're gonna stay on for this one because you guys are both. Wait, are you married or engaged?

Ceruti (70:55)

I'm engaged. July 12th.

Ryan Rosillo (70:58)

Sort. July 12th's a big day. Yeah. Where are you guys doing it? You want. It's a.

Ceruti (71:04)

No. I don't care.

Ryan Rosillo (71:05)

Westchester, N.Y. just felt as a public figure now, maybe.

Ceruti (71:09)

Public figure?

Ryan Rosillo (71:10)

Yeah. You. You wouldn't want. You wouldn't want anyone to know. Hey, by the way, the, the big guy that sent in the thing about, like, am I getting played? And he's paying for a bunch of things. Four dates and 10 days. And he admitted that she was a bit above, you know, the.

Corey Evans (71:27)

It was like four and six days. Ten days would have been a nice reprieve. It was like, it was like Friday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday. It was crazy.

Ryan Rosillo (71:36)

A lot of stuff. There was a Sunday morning pool or he had the Pilates certificate or whatever. He emailed us back, which I appreciate because, you know, he was the one that was like, hey, here's a picture of her. Here's a picture of me. And I think both Kyle with this kind of data were like, yeah, you know, she's gonna turn a few heads. And, you know, he's a, he's a big old offensive lineman with a big gold chain, but he looks like a great hang. And he was like, hey, thanks for reading that. That's exactly what I needed to hear. I'm just gonna, you know, I met somebody I like, so what am I doing, you know? Yeah, I cut down the frequency too.

Corey Evans (72:10)

Let her miss you a Little bit, you know.

Ryan Rosillo (72:13)

Yeah. Save a few bucks, too.

Corey Evans (72:16)

And what do we think about, like, the 16th? The 16th would be a great day for me. Right after that direct deposit hits.

Ryan Rosillo (72:24)

I just, you know, man, I, I think, I think there's just a lot of times where, you know, there's a lot of people that are lonely. Right. And I think you get, you go through your own stretch of like, whatever it is during the off season of relationships and you'll, you'll get in a situation where you're like, this is kind of everything that I wanted. And then you start, because you're not with people that, like, here's. And I'm actually not talking about myself here, but think about, think about the times that you wanted to be in a relationship and that you weren't, right. So if that is extended over a longer period of time, and I'm not even saying that's what's happening with the emailer here, but I think this applies to some other people that you are on your own for almost too long of a stretch, becomes real comfortable. And then once you're back into it and you're in a relationship, you're noticing all these things that are different. It's like, yeah, because you're actually interacting with somebody. Like, there's going, there's no perfect score for anyone out there. I don't believe. And now that you're in something that you said that you wanted, you're coming up with reasons to be like, ah, this is a bit disruptive though. You're like, well, no, because now you actually have to start thinking about somebody else. When you're doing your schedule, there are going to be times you're making sacrifices that you were not making before when you were by yourself all the time. So I just think it's a decent reminder to go, yeah, like, some stuff's going to be a little bit different. Not to say that you're supposed to put up with everything just to be able to have some significant other.

Corey Evans (73:49)

So what's your best cheap date? I'm not talking like, like Dave Chappelle and in Half Baked where he's trying to stretch like $18 over two hours. But like, like, for me, like, like an experience. But that's like, it's not going to be a $300 dinner. Like, I'll take, I'll take my wife to the LA Zoo every once in a while. And that's like, you know, that's like four hours. We'll have a bad sandwich in the cafe or whatever. But you know, you really get your bang for your buck. Do you have like one of those go tos when you're like, yeah, she's going to love this but you know, I'm not going to hate it either.

Ceruti (74:19)

It's like sandwich and a bottle of wine in Central Park. Wow, nice day.

Corey Evans (74:23)

You are that type of guy. That's great.

Ceruti (74:26)

It's a good time. Just laying in Central park gear over there.

Corey Evans (74:31)

That's great. Well, there's some ideas for you, man.

Ryan Rosillo (74:35)

I finally found the email. Do you really need to go all out for a proposal? Hey guys, 58188 player comp. John Lucas III. Mainly because of my height and LeBron would absolutely dunk over me even at this ripe age of 40. One of my favorite memes. And I don't know that I have an all time memes ranking, but when a bunch of the guys in the Bulls were hurt and there was just a picture of John Lucas III and I think the graphic said I fucking got this. And it was like him with a super intense face. I love that one. Anyway, so as the title alludes to, I'm ready to take the next step in my relationship. My girlfriend and I are currently living together in a large Midwest city. As you can imagine, any place or restaurant in the city I live in wants a church. Charge an arm and a leg for me just to pop the question to my girlfriend. I didn't know that. Did you guys know that? No.

Ceruti (75:20)

Kinda.

Ryan Rosillo (75:21)

I imagine you're at. You're. I mean if you're asking for stuff. But I, I don't think you, you.

Ceruti (75:26)

Just put the word wedding or like proposal in front of anything.

Corey Evans (75:29)

Catering costs way more for some reason, I don't know fair.

Ryan Rosillo (75:34)

I'm not in the mindset that I need to propose as cheaply as possible. But you know, market hasn't been great lately. Thanks, Tara. Yeah. Q Ryan Sign. Potential sidebar.

Corey Evans (75:47)

You got to do it.

Ryan Rosillo (75:48)

There is a potential sidebar. No, here's. What I know is that I've read a bunch of stuff I'm not really sure and I'm certainly not comfortable sharing my thoughts on terrorists. I would say most people on social media do not apply those rules themselves. So there you go. Like whoever is in. If the other party's in office, then you'll get mad at the stock market. And if your party's in office, you're just going to say, don't worry about it, we need this. And then when we have the bounce back yesterday, it's like, see, everything worked and Then if you don't like who's in office, you're going to go. Yeah, but the bounce back had to happen because he's a more. So I just. There. I'm not there. There you go. There's. There's a sidebar. I just. I cannot fathom having my content game be like, well, never surrender on anything politically, no matter what happens. All right. I'm sparing no expense on the ring itself, but my larger question remains. Do I need to go all out? My first thoughts are beach vacation in Puerto Rico or Costa Rica, perhaps somewhere on the east coast like Newport or a beach town in Maine. We have a European vacation plan for the fall. But to be honest with you, I love this girl. I don't know if I want to wait that long. Wow. Doesn't he.

Corey Evans (77:02)

Can't chop it at the bit.

Ryan Rosillo (77:03)

Yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah, it's April. This guy wants to start looking at furnishing catalogs soon. I kind of want to just try and find somewhere in our city to pop the question and do a nice dinner after for the married guys. Am I overthinking the need to go all out for the proposal? Do I need to make this thing as special as possible for a big moment like this? All right, why don't you guys take the lead?

Corey Evans (77:21)

She's going to tell the story, right? That's kind of part of it. I wonder if you could find out if she's one of those people who would like her friends and family to be around and like, a video of it, or is it, like, can you just do it at a really nice dinner or, you know, over a sandwich in Central Park? Is that what Worgon did? I don't know, but I think, like, do you want. Do you know if she. Like, some people talk about this before.

Ryan Rosillo (77:46)

It's.

Corey Evans (77:47)

It's not necessarily like the. How it works, but you know, about maybe the timing of it. Like, are we going to do it soon? Like, sometimes, like, the magic is gone and they know it's coming, but they don't know when. Sometimes, you know you're just going to completely throw them off. So I think if you could find out if she's like, I'm sure there's the pie chart of women who want it at a Bulls game. It's very small, and I think more get it than want it, but it doesn't sound like that's in your view. So if she's fine just being on a beach somewhere and it's just you two and a Bunch of strangers are clapping when you do it, then fine. But if it's important to her that her. Her sister and her best friends and they're like, oh, my God. And then you guys go have dinner or whatever, I don't know. I think you maybe find. See if you could find out what kind of thing she would prefer. Maybe even ask her sister if you can trust her not to spill the beans. Like, or, you know, whoever is in her life, be like, do you. Does this sound right? I don't know. But yeah, I don't think. I don't think it has to be the greatest thing anyone's ever heard of, but as long as it's a nice story that she's going to tell over and over again and feels good about telling. Yeah, I guess that wasn't really an answer.

Ceruti (78:54)

But I did talk to Melissa before I proposed, and she was like, I don't really care if you do it like a sporting event, I will break up with you.

Ryan Rosillo (79:02)

Right.

Ceruti (79:02)

So good to know. Don't do that. I did go all out on mine. We were in Stockholm. I made a fake Spotify magazine with, like, a crossword puzzle in the back.

Ryan Rosillo (79:10)

Oh, wow.

Ceruti (79:11)

And then we went to Nice afterwards. We were on the balcony and she did the puzzle. If you read, like, the circle letters backwards, it's spelled, will you marry me?

Ryan Rosillo (79:19)

Wow.

Ceruti (79:20)

Give that a. Give that a second to sink in. I see. I see the wheels turning.

Corey Evans (79:24)

No, I'm just imagining, like, the backwards. Like, was that. Is it too clever? And you have to be like, no, I think it says it was too clever.

Ceruti (79:31)

She, like, started laughing, and I thought that she did it. So I proposed. And then afterwards, she was like, I don't get it.

Corey Evans (79:36)

Oh, man.

Ceruti (79:37)

Yeah, she liked it after, though, I explained it.

Corey Evans (79:40)

Man, it reminds me of that. Like, I saw it on Instagram where this guy was, like, driving past a bunch of billboards, and it was like, will you go to prom with me? And the girl's like, what kind of idiot would do that? Actually, those are my billboards.

Ceruti (79:52)

I would have kept quiet.

Corey Evans (79:53)

I'd love to go to prom with you.

Ryan Rosillo (79:56)

Or can you just say that again?

Ceruti (79:59)

Yeah, I got it on the wall. You want me to. Best visual aid. What are we thinking?

Corey Evans (80:03)

Go grab.

Ceruti (80:03)

Yeah, we all plugged in over here.

Corey Evans (80:09)

An absolute romantic. We got the. We got the wine in Central Park.

Ryan Rosillo (80:13)

We.

Corey Evans (80:13)

He made him let me take it off the wall.

Ceruti (80:14)

Give me a sec.

Corey Evans (80:15)

He turned the work trip. He turned the Spotify Sweden work trip into a proposal. Way to parlay that I mean, unreal.

Ryan Rosillo (80:22)

Yeah, that's good. You know, there's brie in those sandwiches.

Corey Evans (80:25)

It's framed now.

Ryan Rosillo (80:27)

Yeah. So the proposal.

Ceruti (80:31)

All right, we got like the. Here we go. So it's like the COVID here. Here's the crossword, dude. Melissa is, like, standing down the end of the hall just, like, watching this happen.

Corey Evans (80:42)

You guys are going to be fine for those two weeks. I can already tell. Yeah, you guys are going to be great.

Ryan Rosillo (80:49)

Yeah, I'm not worried about that.

Corey Evans (80:50)

Awesome.

Ryan Rosillo (80:52)

I'm not worried about it at all. All right. So. Yeah, that's. That's really sweet, man. That's really. That's very sweet. Look, I think a lot of this is basically budget. You know, where are you at in your relationship? You know, these older couples that have done well or, you know, there's enough in the retirement account that they're not freaking out about it. They're probably going to tell you some origin story when they didn't have any money. And it was really simple and it was sweet, and I think that's the most important thing. I mean, the problem is if you're with somebody who's like, it needs to be this, this, and this and this. Like, you already kind of know what you're signing up for, so you should know. Everyone listening to this kind of knows. And I imagine the emailer, like, you kind of know this already. The fact that you were like, do I have to go all out? And then you're throwing Costa Rica and Puerto Rico in there. It sounds like you're good. It's pretty good standard. Yeah. Well said, Kai. So, you know, could you wait until Europe this fall? The months fly by. My. My man. I don't know why I said it that way, but I. I mean, it's going to be fall before you think, but I. I don't know if there's any urgency where, if it goes another six months that she's going to start wondering. Usually if you go to Europe and you're in this phase of the relationship, she's expecting that you're proposing there anyway. Because there have been some. Some trips that I've heard from. From friends where it's like, they went to Europe and no question was asked, and then the trip was a complete disaster because the other person was expecting to be proposed. Proposed to at some point. It sounds like you don't have to worry about any of this stuff. But look, there was a guy, I think also age has a lot to do with this. When the guys in my group were starting to propose, which was pretty late for, I guess, basic standards. But there was a few early guys, right? There was a few guys in their mid-20s that did it up and one guy didn't have any money and he made it kind of like a family thing. And it was great. And they, they talk about it still, that it was awesome. There was another dude who apparently like went to Paris, had the carriage with the horses and the whole thing. Dudes were like, you hear what Bogges did, you know? And you were like, what? You know? Guys were like horrified. And then guys kind of took that as like the standard and they were thinking like, oh my God, like, what am I going to do? And it's like, you're going to do whatever it is that you're capable of doing at that point. Like an engagement ring is already an absurd investment, especially the expectations of what that's supposed to be based on what you're making at that time. Here's what I can tell you to do, or what I should tell you to not do. Don't show up to a work propose in the parking lot when you're actually broken up. That doesn't work that well. All right.

Kyle Wargon (83:32)

Nice.

Ryan Rosillo (83:33)

Okay. Yeah. Let's see. Master Stolen valor All right, 29 years old, 6 foot 225 bench 225 for the first time a few years ago. Now trying to get back to the thousand pound club. Look out. Pickup comp. Grayson Allen Unexpected athleticism can light it up from deep, but lateral quickness defensively is an issue. My question is wearing Master's apparel when you have not attended the tournament Stolen Valor as most sports loving males men do, I love the Masters. Unfortunately, having not been lucky enough to plant my feet in the Bermuda grass, I have several clothing items to celebrate my love for the event. But I've noticed a strange reaction to my wearing the gear. Recently I've been asked, whoa, you've been to the Masters? To which I've replied, no. Sadly, this has been meant by an unimpressed O more than once. Typically, the conversation shifts topics after this exchange. This all culminated with a tweet post from a popular Golfx account asking the same question Is wearing Master's gear when you've not gone to the event yourself, the sports equivalent of Stolen Valor? The original post has affected my thoughts on wearing the clothing enough that I felt the need to get your opinions on the matter. Also, it is unknown whether Worgon has graced the Masters with his presence, but he was wearing apparel on the Tuesday pod. Curious for his thoughts As a potential fellow Augusta imposter. Thanks. Side note, I have a first responder job. Met with some tough days in the office. Nothing improves the mood more when there's a new pod sitting in the queue. Thanks. All right. Yeah. Cool. All right. Yeah. Well, Kyle, we already knew that you were going to say, like, absolutely not. So let's just start with Wargon here, because I think. Have you been.

Ceruti (85:09)

No, I haven't been. I've worked at in studio a couple times. The guys always bring back apparel when we do that. But, like, it's a sporting event. Wear whatever you want, you know, it's not like you're pretending to be a police officer or something.

Corey Evans (85:21)

Yeah, as. As a guy who went in 2018 and probably the best day of my life so far. Really, really awesome.

Ryan Rosillo (85:29)

I check your wife know that.

Corey Evans (85:30)

I check every year. I'm just going to power through this. I check every year to see if I can get in. I. I'm in the real lottery. I look on the secondary markets and it's like, I'd really like to bring my dad because that's what Bill did when I went and I was like, wow, what a great moment. And then I went and dropped him off somewhere that I couldn't go. But I, like, I would really. I always check every year to come back, and I'm just here to tell you it's hard. And then you get the tickets and you're like, boy, I hope we have some place to stay. And that's maybe even harder. I think so. No, it's not bad at all. I mean, I Pursa Rudy's Abercrombie Comeback. I checked, and it turns out I actually like Abercrombie now. When I was in middle school, early high school, definitely different vibes. The story even smells different. But they sell a bunch of cool throwback stuff. And yeah, I was not at the Athens Olympics. And I don't really care if you feel one way or another when I wear that throwback shirt. So I look at it the same way. It's really hard to get there. And if you're, you know, like me and every year it just doesn't seem to work out. I think you wear that shirt and feel good about it. It's a sick logo. And yeah, we went over this with the fire department shirts, you know, from your. From your cool uncle or whatever. Like, it's totally fine.

Ryan Rosillo (86:44)

I think the masters thing, maybe it's the disappointment from the other party by going, oh, have you been? And then you're like, no, and then they were disappointed they didn't get to ask.

Corey Evans (86:52)

They want to talk to you about 13 or something. They're like, oh, this guy hasn't even been.

Ryan Rosillo (86:57)

It's so hard to get into that. I really don't think there's any kind of issue here whatsoever. I mean, there was a guy that was on a painting crew that used to go all the time, and then he. He would just ask, like, everybody, like, does anybody want anything? And then I had a. I had a hat for a little while that I rock. I didn't even think anything of it. I mean, I get for the LSU thing, and I totally understand it. Like, make fun of me. I'm from the Northeast. I didn't go there. I went to another school. I always joke that Vermont didn't have a football team, so then I should. But, like, why am I going to give a shit what a stranger thinks about something that I enjoy? I mean, you really could flip it the other way around and be like, why would you care that I enjoy something?

Corey Evans (87:32)

Yeah, you're the loser, actually.

Ryan Rosillo (87:33)

Ultimately. Yeah, ultimately, you just want to find another reason to have an issue with me, and that's totally fine. He's like, all right. Yeah, cool. Everything you're saying is fine. I'm going to go to Baton Rouge this Saturday and have a great time watching LSU football. And that's, I would say, in the scale of the things that would be considered way worse, which is fine. Again, I accept it. Cool. Learn how to deal with the master's hat.

Corey Evans (87:57)

Learn how to deal with the question, because it will be asked, especially if a lot of dudes have been to the masters and they love talking about it. I love talking about it. So, you know, just be prepared for that question and the, you know, whatever.

Ryan Rosillo (88:10)

I'm not sure I understand the Olympics thing, though, Kyle.

Corey Evans (88:13)

What do you mean?

Ryan Rosillo (88:13)

Like, what kind of shirt are we talking?

Corey Evans (88:15)

Like, Abercrombie. They have. They just have, like, a bunch of. They have, like, a throwback edition where.

Ceruti (88:20)

They'Re like that retro logo line.

Corey Evans (88:21)

Yeah, it's a. Retro logos. They look a little faded, you know, so, like, you know, maybe to the untrained eye, you could fool someone into thinking that this was my dad's Atlanta Olympics shirt or something, you know, from. From the 90s. Or, you know, the grease one is the one I ended up buying. So I don't know. I just don't. I don't think I should have to explain that either. Or if I do explain it, I don't think you should. Be able to be like, wow, dude, you didn't even go. It's not sports, Stolen valorant. It's just an event. That's cool. And the shirt's cool, too.

Ryan Rosillo (88:48)

I think it's an entirely different class of, like, wearing the Boston Marathon. Zip up that windbreaker. That's probably really nice to run in. Probably nice on a rainy day. Like, ooh, you know, it's not too cold out, but it's a little rainy. And I don't know, I had a few beers in me and I bought this on Boylston. And, you know, I always wanted it, like, did you run? No. Yeah, right? I mean, that'd be the equivalent of like, did you play? Like, no. Somebody just. My uncle went. He bought me a hat. Like, I'm out. He won the lottery. I'm not one of his favorite nephews. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. That is not stolen valor. I. I don't. And I think we should just kind of lower the stolen valor standards. Maybe we'd all be a little bit better off. All right, last one. 21 years old, 510, 160 pounds, squat, 280, bench, 185. Trying to go to the gym more this quarter. Real technical guy here. JV Russell Westbrook. Comp usage rate over 50% while missing 4. Missing 3. Missing the three 4 out of 5 times. When I do end up playing emailing because I need relationship advice as I go into my post college life. I've been dating my current girlfriend for over three years now. All right, so that means sophomore, junior, senior year, guys. So that's serious. We started hanging out almost right after the start of my freshman year. Thank you for the clarification. Things have been mostly great with a few major arguments, but nothing we haven't worked through together. I'm worried mainly because when I first met her mom, I ended up with a severe headache and wanted nothing to do with her again. She's a very slow talker, and the way she finished her sentences made me want to rip the car into the guardrail just to have something new happen. That's a great dude. Ever since meeting her, I've tried, to the detriment of my relationship, to quietly cancel on dinners and family things I'm invited to. When I mentioned it to my dad, he told me about how much my mom is like my grandmother and how much he has grown to just accept it, even though he still struggles with her mom to this day. He continued by saying that his relationship with my grandmother has proved to be a constant rift between my mom and him and has led to some of their biggest fights over the last 25 years. I understand that I wouldn't have my girlfriend's mom in my day to day life, but sure seems like something I should either work through or break it off because of. I graduate college in eight weeks and it feels like it's coming to a point where I need to push my chips into the middle or fold and let it go. My girlfriend also wants to move to New York City and while I thought I might follow her, I'm beginning to feel like I should stay closer to home on the west coast. Maybe my thoughts about her mom are just a way for me to feel better about my relationship ending potentially because of distance. But I don't have a desire to end up feeling the way my dad feels today. Wondering your guys thoughts on this. Do either of your potential mother in laws suck?

Corey Evans (91:22)

No, I don't have one actually.

Ryan Rosillo (91:25)

Oh, I'm sorry.

Corey Evans (91:26)

Can you do it? Sounds like your dad gave you some great advice. And I'm a big proponent of breaking up when you leave that point of higher education or even high school. I'm a proponent of that anyway and I know there's exceptions, but I think that's a great natural breaking point to go see what kind of dude or chick is that? The equivalent of dude you are at the next stage in your next city, at your next job, whatever that is. So I'd lean, I'd lean towards, you know, this is a natural breakup point. But I don't think it's because of the mother in law. And I think your dad gave you some good advice basically like don't be like me man. We had some big, big problems and a lot of it was from this.

Ryan Rosillo (92:07)

I don't think it was don't be like me. I think it was more of you'll find a way, you'll find a way to.

Corey Evans (92:13)

Well he said he had some major problems and she was at the center of it and he had, you know, I think like he said he's learned to accept it but it sounded like it took a while and maybe it was a little rocky in the beginning and he was like man I wish I could have that one back if I just didn't fight that battle. But yeah, you being cold and like that. You're not the only one who knows. Like even if you think you're being sneaky about it, like the third time you cancel on something, even if you have good reasons, they're going to Be like, this is something all right with Todd. Is everything fine. But I'm, I'm certainly a proponent of, you know, the natural dispersal point when you end a four year thing like college or high school and just see what else is destiny.

Ryan Rosillo (92:49)

Todd wants another destination. Christmas. We never see the kids when it. The headline of this is will my girlfriend truly become her Mom? Like, I think that adds another layer to all this stuff. Before we go into that, though, I don't want to cut Oregon off here. Did you have more on that, on the dynamic?

Ceruti (93:10)

I just feel like if you're having these thoughts, it's not just because of the mom thing. Like, what do, what do you see her once every two months, once every three months? Like, it's just not the issue that you're making it out to be. And there's got to be some underlying.

Corey Evans (93:22)

Them up for a dinner every once in a while.

Kyle Wargon (93:23)

Yeah, right.

Ryan Rosillo (93:27)

This just reminded me of one of our friends was seeing somebody and it was really early, we were very young and he was really excited to get along with her. Great. And then he was like, do you guys think the girl's name, it's going to end up looking like our mom? I was like, maybe at 50, dude. Maybe I do, actually. Yeah. Is that what you're already charting out the next 30? Like, what, what are you worried about? He's like, I don't know. He's like his mom. Her mom's not very hot, but like, yeah, a lot of moms aren't very hot.

Corey Evans (94:01)

Right? They wear like a whole different style of jeans, man.

Ryan Rosillo (94:04)

Yeah, come on. Right? So I don't know if his concern is that his, his girlfriend is going to have the demeanor of the mom. This slow talking thing's really driving our dude crazy here right now. To me, there's a less specific way of looking at this. Like, you're graduating college. I don't know what you fought all through the years of not like in arguments, but you've made it through with a very adult relationship in college. And that is a very hard thing to do. But now there's all sorts of new tests and that is one's goals in life. The geography of the situation. I'm not going to sit here and read an email like this in a few sentences and be like, yes, you should break up. I don't know that I'm not going to tell you that you, you should or you shouldn't. But if that's the only issue, it's probably a bad issue to break up. If this is one of many issues, then you're probably already answering your own question because it sounds like you're coming to the realization of like. And by the way, why do you have to already make a decision that she's going to be your wife this soon? Get through these next couple years, see if you end up in the same city, see how it goes there.

Corey Evans (95:23)

See if you're a New York City guy. The mom thing is, if you're not a New York City guy and you have to be a New York City guy.

Ryan Rosillo (95:28)

Woof. Honestly, I think that might be the answer. Worry about the non mother in law stuff, potential mother in law stuff here and see how that goes. All right. And if that's. I just, I still think kind of bringing us full circle at the very beginning of this, like when people are pursuing relationships in relationships and all this stuff. Like, I don't like some of the standards. It's like, do you expect everything to be compatible? Do you expect, like, it. It'd be great if that was the way this stuff works. It's not the way that it works.

Corey Evans (96:04)

SHE SNORES I don't know if we're, we're cut out for the long haul.

Ryan Rosillo (96:06)

Yeah. Okay. There's going to be something that you do that she's talking about with her friends where she's like, I love him. I think he might be the guy. But I wish like this, this, and this was better. So I don't think on its own, it's a great reason to break this up, but you're going to have a whole new set of circum. The environment is going to be so different post college. They're going to challenge a relationship anyway. I think you're going to get the answers about who this person is or isn't going to be in your life. That probably has nothing to do with the mother. Okay, that'll do it for us. Thanks to Kyle Wargon Jonathan Frias for getting the pod up. And I guess that's really all I have to think here other than another big congratulatory note to Ceruti and his family. The Ryan Priscilla podcast is Video pod now on Spotify, so you can see it on the app. Subscribe to the YouTube page and as always, thanks for listening. Ryan Rosula podcast.

Ceruti (96:56)

Hey, guys.

Ryan Rosillo (97:17)

Must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-50-5477 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.