← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
More Luka Trade Fallout! The Pulse of Mavs Fans with Will Cain. Fox to the Spurs. Plus the LeBron, Klutch and Lakers Plans with Jovan Buha.
02:08:40
Loading summary
Transcript312 lines
- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Foreign Big Basketball Podcast. Let's do it. Luca to the Lakers. Everything that I've been able to piece together and why I think one part of this I will never be okay with. We've got Will Kane Politics and Pick and Roll. Probably more just on Luca. Uh, De'Aaron Fox also on the move to San Antonio. So a few on that. Serena and I run through the no list of Luka trades and the Lakers future with Jovan Buha and life advice. This episode of the Ryan Marcillo Podcast is presented by AT&T. There's a lot in life that should be guaranteed but isn't. Like your favorite team making the playoffs or finding matching socks in the dryer. I hate that. And then there's AT&T guarantee. It means connectivity you can depend on deals you want and service you deserve or AT&T will make it right. Visit att.com guarantee to learn more. AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguarantee for details. This episode is brought to you by Pepcid Complete. All right, let's talk game day essentials. How do I spend game day? Well, we already know that. Get out of the house, get the blood flowing, try to get some activities going. But man, I had some wings the other night. My brother ordered them table wings. It was awesome. And it was also a little reminder you get a little bit older. But there's one guest that isn't welcome on game day and that's heartburn. Because I remember thinking it was made up. I was like who gets it? What is it? Do you get dumped and you get it? Nope, you just start to get it. Man, I don't know what to tell you. And if you can't fix it, you're in for a tough, tough afternoon, maybe even into the night. Thankfully, Pepcid Complete starts to work instantly and lasts all day. Just one great tasting chewable tablet provides dual action heartburn relief with an antacid that starts working instantly and an acid reducer that lasts all day so I can stay focused on the game. Visit pep.com to shop now all day based on 8 hour symptom relief studies during the day, use product only as directed. On Saturday night, Luca was traded to Lakers Bill Simmons, Rob Mahoney and I, we all did a emergency pod because this deserved an emergency pod. It's one of those trades. It's the biggest trade of my NBA lifetime. It's the kind of trade where or news that I'll remember exactly where I was Saturday night. Not very wild. Back home Laying in bed, Paul catch fire on tv, excited about it. And then you see the first piece of news start traveling in. Your phone starts blowing up. Is this real? What are you talking about, man? And then you see Sham's tweet that Luka Donches have been traded to the Lakers for Anthony Davis. And I, like everybody else, is like, this doesn't make a lot of sense. And Sham said to say, this is not fake. Like, I haven't been hacked. And Bobby Marks had to be like, he's not hacked. That's how unbelievable this trade was. Call Bill feels like, I guess we do an emergency pod. I'm like, yeah, I think you have to for this one. And we did it. We sorted through it. And I was hoping by Monday morning of this taping that I would have more info for you. So let's just try to work through it a little bit because the league is still shocked by all of this. So I think it still works. Today my reaction was, like, everybody else, why would you trade someone like luka doncic at 25 years old, he's already made five all NBA first teams. By 25, his range is probably at best the second best player in the world. At worst, the third best player in the world. I think he's better than sga. I'm sure there could be an argument. So let's say the worst you could rank Luca today is the fourth best player in the world at 25 years old. Guys like this do not get traded. And again, it's the most stunning trade of my lifetime. So since Saturday night, I probably just because people can't stop talking about this, maybe half the teams. Someone for half the teams in the league because you keep trying to put this together, and now I don't. I don't know that there's much more of a mystery. It's like, did. Have you heard from anyone that knew that he was available? Did you hear from any team where Nico just kicked the tires and like, hey, what would you do in theory if we were willing to trade Luka Doncic? Because a lot of times this is how all this stuff happens. These guys talk to each other nonstop. They know which front office is like their players, which players that they don't like, who could be available, who might not be available. It's just a big, big run of months and months of dudes on phones talking about hypotheticals. They do it in their own front offices where they rank all of the players, and then they revisit those rankings and they argue over the rankings. Just because they want to know, like, how their group sees the value around the league in comparison to maybe how another team would see the value. Right. So there was speculation that there was this one other mystery team that was at least asked about, you know, what they could do for Luca in a trade. I don't know who that team is. And Tim McMahon does a great job. ESPN.com covers basketball nationally. But very plugged in with the Mavs. Said in his piece, quote, they did not discuss potential Davis trades with any franchise other than the Lakers. So that feels like maybe there's this one. We'll hear something later on like, oh, they actually kind of called. But like, who knows? Because apparently this wasn't like a two day thing. It goes all the way back to like prior to January 7th. And then Nico and Rob Polinka met up January 7th when they were both in Los Angeles. So if there's one constant that I can. Which you already know, but the constant is that Nico Harrison loves Anthony Davis. Loves him. And I get it. AD is awesome. He's 31, 32 in March. He's been great again this year. All NBA second team. Last year I voted him as an all star starter this season. Last season, though, was his first year at 70 games since 2017. 18. He wants to be a power forward. Cool. He's a lot better and more valuable as a center. If you start trying to map out what the rotation will be, maybe how they would close playoff games. I do worry a little bit of like the power forward center non stretching the floor, two bigs Cleveland thing that I kind of worry about at times, even though Mobley's just been lighting it up. So you understand what I'm saying? Like the two bigs that don't really stretch the floor, maybe it's just about defense and providing two incredible interior defenders behind your perimeter guys. But now you're moving P.J. washington to the three where he's probably better as a four. And then I don't know what you do with Clay, who's been starting because he probably shouldn't be guarding two guards. So I guess you could say this is where the Max Christie piece comes in. And maybe they close with the Max Christie defense. He's been pretty good lately. And then you have kyrie at the 1. I thought this Dallas team with Luca was a Pretty good team. OkC on. To me, it's a toss up. If everybody were right and everybody were healthy, that's a big hit because Kyrie's got a back issue. PJs got a knee issue. Gafford, you know, missed a game recently. Not that big of a deal. Lively's out indefinitely with a stress fracture, so maybe it works. Or maybe they never get fully healthy. And we can't judge Dallas on this trade anyway. Right? I think all of those possibilities are on the table at this point. I also worry a little bit about the dynamic of Kyrie as the true one. I think he loves the role. I think he likes being miked up. I think he likes it kind of being his team despite staying all the right things and playing some really good basketball and being drama free here for two years. But the weird part about Kyrie's playoff run last year is that when it was great, it was just using universally praised as great. And when it was bad, it didn't really matter because Luca was there where Kyrie could have bad stretches and big playoff moments that just kind of became hidden because he was the two and not the one. And the one gets the brunt of all that criticism. When you're the one and your team doesn't win in the playoffs in the NBA, it's like, oh, what's wrong with this guy? And Kyrie is able to avoid a lot of that stuff because Luca was there, now he won't. And to be honest with you, it's not going to be because AD can overshadow. Kyrie is the focus of attention here because AD is kind of the same way. As great as he is, he's a deferential personality, and he probably works better with somebody else who's perceived more as the face of a franchise, a. A popularity superstar like a LeBron James, despite the fact, you know, look, the last two years, Anthony Davis was the better basketball player between the two guys for the Lakers, it's a franchise reset and it should be. Who cares about 2025? I don't like their defense in the perimeter right now. Who cares? Because once Luca becomes available to you, you trade for Luca and you worry about the rest of it later. Some have said the Lakers got sick of LeBron in clutch. Okay, I'll hear you out. But you know, you. You were so sick of clutching LeBron that. What? You gave LeBron a two year, hundred million dollar extension with a player option. You drafted his son, you hired another new coach, this time it being J.J. redick. And I don't want to be dismissive of J.J. by saying, oh, you hired his podcast co host. Because I love the JJ Reddick hire. And again, I'm biased. I like JJ Redick. But recent history tells us you weren't that sick of them. So this week you got sick of him. You got sick of A.D. you got sick of LeBron. You're going to take some power back. No, you can say those things to people and be like, ah, you know, there's starting to get a little. Little old here inside the building. No, Luca was available. And that's why you did this, because play it out on the other side. What if everybody got along? What if the Lakers and the front office and ownership and everybody was like, we love Clutch. It's awesome. No complaints. You would have turned this offer down. Of course not. You would have traded for Luca because you can't believe Luke is available and available only to you. Why would Dallas do this? Sure, we could talk about his conditioning, his injury history. Fine, we could talk about the contract. He was eligible for five years, 348 million, supermax. He's not eligible for that. Now that he's been traded, there's a way, if you were to opt out after 10 years in, he can make some of that money back. Did they maybe offer him less? Did they kick the tires on, like, hey, since we can pay you more than everybody else, could we potentially do some of that kind of stuff? Did Lucas say that he didn't want to sign it? Did he hint at not wanting to be there? Like, none of that's really come out right. Did new ownership think this contract could be potentially a bad deal? Man, it's not like any of these new owners are broke. And if the first thing you would want to do, like the transition of power from Cuban to the new group, like, yeah, let's get rid of Luka. I can't believe a new ownership group would even sign off on something like this. I still can't believe Nico didn't talk to other teams. I can't believe he brought up that he was worried about other teams loading up for Luca. Because if there's one thing that I keep reminding you about, like, think of all of the players, like, you know, who the Heat are going after. Like, let them worry about their cap space. That doesn't really work out. Run through the rest of this year. Call other teams, see potentially what could happen this summer. Dallas had to be so sick of him, man. They had to be so sick of him. And Nico had some telling quotes in his availability. He said, quote, as we turn the page, I think it's important to know that Jason Kidd and I, we've had a vision and the culture that we want to create since we've been here, the players that we're bringing in, we believe, exemplify that. We think defense wins championships, and we're bringing in one of the best two way players in the league. That translates as, we're really sick of Luca. And maybe it's a bit like that relationship, like, they broke up. It's like, you're not. You're not living with that other person. You don't know what it's like. Maybe all of us on the outside who are not living with Luca don't know what it's like. But here's what I do know. It's not great basketball business to get sick of guys like luka Doncic at 25 years old. Nico also said, quote, I don't do anything scary when he's talking about transactions. You traded for Kyrie two years ago. That was the single most available, scary transaction to make in the league at the time, but it worked. And I think that's another important thing if we're talking about Nico here, because there's a lot of quotes where I'm like, God, they must have just hated Luca. People around the league think Nico's terrific. They think this front office is terrific. It's been nothing but praise and a consistent deal of, Nico loves Anthony Davis, and the relationship keeps going back. I get it. But I still can't believe they didn't at least call other teams. There is a kind of like, as everybody agrees, like, I can't believe this trade happened. I can't believe this is the way that was executed. Why would you do this? You don't want to trade a guy like Luca. This is a generational talent. You've helped out the Lakers, all these different things. I guess there's a version of this that ends up on, like, some page was like, look at all these idiots getting this thing wrong. We're. Or if everybody's healthy and the Mavs make some kind of run and say, they get to the NBA Finals, say, or they win the whole thing, and it's like, look at you morons. Nico was right. You're like, yeah, maybe. But you know what they never do? You know how, like, when they'll show a playoff panel, it's a pregame show, and you show all the studio hosts, they show all their picks, they put up the little helmet. It's like, man, everybody picked that team on Monday night, or everybody picked that team for the playoff game, and everybody got it wrong. And then everybody posted like, morons. You know, they never do. They Never post it when everybody picks it, right? It's just like, yeah, I think the Chiefs are going to beat the Texans in the playoffs. Chiefs, Chiefs, Chiefs, Chiefs, Chiefs. You never see that one posted. Everyone's still stunned. How do you not call Boston? At least make them say no about Tatum? How do you not call Milwaukee and be like, is there any part of this where it makes sense for you to move off of it? I mean, those are a little bit more difficult because they're guys that are in house and they've won championships with already. I don't know how you don't call an. I don't know how you don't call Houston, San Antonio and the picks, but maybe if you're Dallas, you're like, look, we're not in the pick business right now with the way the rest of the roster shapes out. We're not doing a reset. We think we're right back in the hunt here in the West. So I don't want to hear about all of Houston and San Antonio's potential picks. I guess you would look at it and say, well, Booker isn't as good of a fit as AD is with this roster. I just don't understand how you don't call, because usually these negotiations all start with an absurd request, something so tilted in your favor as a general manager, it's almost embarrassing to make that offer. This trade started with the other GM laughing, with Polinka being like, wait, are you serious? I also thought it was hilarious hearing about how Pelinka was able to keep this quiet. Like, no, really, he didn't want to tell other people that Luca was for real available. Because I've heard some people in the media talk about how, like, well, once it gets out, then Dallas loses their leverage. You don't lose leverage when you're potentially trading Luka Doncic. The market increases your leverage. So even if there's an outcome from a team success standpoint, where months from now or maybe a year and a half from now, we'll be looking at this going, man, remember when everybody felt this way and crushed this thing? And now look at the maps. Yeah, I do think that that is a potential scenario. But what I'll never defend is the execution. To talk to one team, that part of this will forever be indefensible. The fanduel kick of destiny is back. And this time it's every Manning for himself. This super bowl, two legends will take the field in a sudden death field goal showdown. Peyton versus Eli, live from New Orleans. One kick to claim ultimate Family bragging rights. Who will rise to the moment? Pick your winner now in the FanDuel app, and if you back the right brother, you'll earn a share of $10 million in bonus bets. It's the fanduel kick of Destiny 3. Make your free pick and don't forget to tune in to watch the showdown live during The Super Bowl 59 pregame show on Fox at 3pm Eastern. May the best Manning win. FanDuel official partner of Super Bowl 59 must be 21 and older in present select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. no purchase necessary. Bonus issued is non withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Seat terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 100 GAMBLER or visit rg-health.com this is exciting. I hate having him on perhaps his most depressed weekend of his fandom. But it's Will Kane, who, by the way, you can see weekdays, every single day on Fox News, the Will Kane show, 4pm Eastern. Will, it's good to see you again, man.
- [18:00]
Will Kane
What is up? Rosillo. This is. This is interesting. This is fun. I appreciate the invitation. I am honored. I'm flattered. Now this is. I'm excited to be with you again, man. What's up?
- [18:14]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, so before we get to this Luca stuff, this tariff stuff is wild. Yeah, man. No, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. All right, look, I just. I. I went through the open, and we've talked about this already. I did the pod. I just wanted your perspective as a lifelong Texan, lifelong Mavs fan. I. I know that you've been super into it. It's been a couple days. Luca is gone. How do you feel?
- [18:44]
Will Kane
Just so bummed, just so crestfallen. I mean, I feel awful. And it doesn't get better. I was at breakfast with some of my buddies this morning, and they're like, why do you care so much? I'm like, what happened to you? When did you lose your humanity and your passion? This is what I sign up for, man. Like, we all have the way that we come through, you know, loving sports. Mine, mine is through the prism of fandom, Rosillo. And it is, it is, it is fandom through the. The channels that were a birthright that I was born to. You know, that's the Texas Longhorns, Dallas Cowboys, Texas Rangers, Dallas Stars, and Dallas Mavericks. And that's the way it has been. And I never made a choice. And to see one of my loves gutted, 100% gutted, the spirit and soul ripped out of it. It's just. It just feels like a real loss of hope.
- [19:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow, that was intense and efficient. What bothers you the most?
- [19:46]
Will Kane
Okay, what bothers me the most is that whoever made this decision and I always respect that, you know, even when we were together, you talked about I have sources. Meaning you have sources. Rossillo. You don't do this through like I do the prism of the fan. But on this one I do, I do know some things. And what I have been told and led to believe is this was really heavily, if not exclusively driven by Nico. So, you know, I don't want to focus all my fire on Nico Harrison because I don't think it can be completely true that he does a decision like this. You know, we know that there had to be sign off. But as far as driving the decision, what has me most upset is there is no understanding from whoever made this decision will presume Nico Harrison that the role Luca played in the psyche in the city of Dallas and it's singular and it can't be replaced. And I posted this on X yesterday. It's the type of thing that a championship doesn't just replace. So if I even accept the most superficial rationales that oh, this makes us a better basketball team, Charles Barkley says it makes Dallas perhaps the second best team in the West. If I even cared about the X's and O's of that right now and it worked out in the most optimistic manner possible and they win a championship this year, I don't think it's enough. I don't think it replaces have an iconic figure who's not just the face of the franchise, but I think, you know, the face of the league. And if not the face of the league now with some certainty the face of the league within five years. And to rip that out, who's a homegrown dude that we brought over that had doubt around him? I debated Stephen A and Max on whether or not they should, you know, you should take DeAndre or whether not DeAndre Ayton's a better pick or I don't even remember the name of the dude that Sacramento picked second or third from.
- [21:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Bagley.
- [21:35]
Will Kane
Bagley. That was the type of debate we were having. And it was like, no, no, no, we got Luka. We pulled off a heist. Somehow the basketball gods gave us this unicorn and he proved to be everything that you ever wanted. And he just represented more. Honestly, Priscilla, he represented more than championships And I will say this. This is like the Mavs trading Dirk in 2006. And if the Mavs had won the championship in 07 and 08 without Dirk, it wouldn't mean as much as winning in 2011 with Dirt.
- [22:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you touched on a bunch of good things there. The ownership part of this, because none of this stuff happens. Like, the number of times that you'll hear about something and then, you know, like a week later, somebody's like, wow, the owner, you know, did or didn't want to do this. Like, there's just so many deals that either happen because the owner's, like, behind it, or a deal that doesn't happen because ultimately everybody in the basketball side, the coach is, the front office, are like, we want to do this. The owner goes, you know what? We're not doing that. And that's it. Like, ultimately, you work for the owner. Even if we believe there's some sort of fake hierarchy of, like, the GM can tell the guy that actually owns the team, that writes his checks that he is going to do something that he doesn't want to do, maybe early on with owners, and maybe that's the lesson in this. Maybe that the new ownership part of this, even though that whole Cuban timeline has been so strange, where it was, wait, you sold the team, but you get to keep running it. Like, that doesn't really ever happen. And I don't know that that's even necessarily true, or maybe they were being nice to Cuban for the year or whatever. But it. It's the opposite of what a new ownership group would want to do in their own backyard. You would think, even if Nico's convinced them, hey, he doesn't get it, and he's going to age fast, and we don't want to pay him all of this money and all these things. I would think most ownership groups in this situation be like, you know, what we can't do, though, is we can't trade this guy right now. We can't. We can't do this because every sales guy is motherfucking the organization right now. All the PR people like, all the community stuff and the money part of it, all the. The local product here suffers in. In such a way, like their approval rating, which, again, all that stuff can be totally bullshit. And if they have a deep playoff run, maybe it doesn't really matter. I think I saw something where the Instagram page for the Mavs lost hundreds of thousands of followers. I don't know if that was real or not, but the thing that influences so Many basketball decisions. The dynamic that I kind of despise is usually the kind of thing, though, that would prevent an organization from doing something like this because it is so immediately unpopular.
- [24:24]
Will Kane
Okay, so from the ownership side of this equation, I'm going to tell you what I think I understand. And, and, and that is this, this is an organization, the new ownership that allows its managers to run their businesses, whether or not that's the casino business, the hospitality business, and maybe now the basketball business. This is also, I think, something that has taken everyone. Shockingly, Rosilla, I'm telling you this is true. Taking everyone by surprise. They did not expect this level of backlash. One more just to do away with the conspiracy theory, the Mavericks are not moving to Las Vegas. Like the. This ownership group, by the way, is largely divested from Las Vegas. They don't own the Venetian. They don't own casinos in Las Vegas. And trust me when I tell you that there is a belief widespread that Texas, Forget Dallas. Dallas vs. Vegas isn't even a comp. You know, no business owner goes, I think I'm moving from Dallas to Vegas. No, that's not a comparable market decision. But the idea of Texas is a big time investment. You will see gambling legalized in Texas. You will see casinos built in Texas. You will see the Mavericks somehow tied in to all of those things. So that's just, that's not happening. I don't think there's any way this is tied to, oh, moving the Mavericks to Vegas. And the NBA was doing them a solid. You know, get Luca to LA and help out our ratings and you can move the franchise to Vegas. No, that's not, that's not real Rosillo. People name their dog Luca here like it's. There's not a comp. Man. Here's the best I did. I tried to think about this because you know me on my thing saying, you know, a championship doesn't heal this wound. I don't know, does two or three championships. Well, the closest comp I can come up with besides the hypothetical of them trading Dirk is Jerry Jones firing Tom Landry in 1988 into 1989. That was a big deal. Like there are old head and we're. You, you and I are old heads now. But Cowboy fans who never forgave Jerry Jones despite the dynasty of the 90s, just did not forgive him for doing that to an icon. Now the difference is Tom Landry was really down. Like the Cowboys were not good in those two or three years leading up to Jones's purchase of Them. Luka is, like, right now entering his prime, and they just came back from the NBA finals, so even that comp falls short. I don't know how from a PR perspective, you. You recover. And maybe I'm wrong. And I guess I hope I'm wrong. Like, maybe three championships. And I know this sounds ridiculous, maybe two championships heals this, but I don't want two championships right now. You know what I want? I want Luka to be a Dallas Maverick.
- [27:11]
Ryan Rosillo
The other thing that I. I have a hard time with is, like, you want to say Luca, like, oh, you know, he's getting all these stats, whatever. Like, there's so many other players that have huge numbers and could potentially obtain all these individual accolades. There's going to be a couple guys that make the hall of Fame. Where I go, like, cool. The fact that you had had this finals run just a couple seasons after the Western Conference finals run where that team wasn't that good. All right. But they knocked off a really good Phoenix team that had just been to the finals. You look at the Phoenix Suns turn that regular season, and for whatever reason, they just took their souls. They take their souls in that game seven. They had no chance against the Warriors. I was going through the other offensive options there, and you're like, Luca dragged this team. And I do think there are conference finals appearances that can be fools gold and maybe gets a team thinking about themselves in a way that they shouldn't be thinking about themselves. Like, hey, you guys actually aren't that close and you're not as good as you think you are. You, even though it says you're one of the final four teams still standing. But Luca getting to the finals again with a different roster that quickly after getting to that Western Conference finals appearance, like, tells me that you actually are close. And again, this isn't some empty stat guy. This isn't just the most talented guy in the league that even with his deficiencies on defense, there wasn't enough happening negatively with his game that that put a ceiling on who you were. Where I think there's like five to seven other guys in the league where I'm like, oh, cool, he had 30 again. Yeah. I mean, let me know when they're out of the playing. And that's the part with Nico where it's very clear they were completely over him. And Windhorse when he did his rant last year during the playoffs and just, I mean, that was like, vicious. He made a point today where he's like, you know what's crazy about that? He's like, nobody. Or maybe I just saw the clip again. He's like, nobody from Dallas called me to defend their guy. So I. I think what we're. We're putting together here is that whatever the day to day Luca dynamic was, it was still so egregious to Nico and the rest of the group that they were willing to do something like this. Where on the outside you're going, you're complaining about this dude as the face of your franchise because you actually have team success. Granted, not the title, but. But like real runs in recent seasons to point to is this guy is not somebody that gets in the way of a team's success despite his flaws.
- [29:39]
Will Kane
So what's wild about that? And he's completely validated today. But is the idea that Nico Harrison is bigger than Luka Doncic. Clearly he is bigger than Luka Doncic because he did this. And if that's because man ownership believes in him, you know, so much, or this is their style of management to allow people to make decisions. It's shocking. Whatever justification Nico runs out that it's what sold. Let's do a couple of them. So the. The defense thing, that's total nonsense.
- [30:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I.
- [30:12]
Will Kane
And I know a lot of fans are gonna sit there, go, Will. I've watched him get destroyed on the. I don't care. They were number three in the league in defense last year. After the trade deadline, after they got Gafford in Washington, they were third in defense. Does that make them perfect? And Luka's not a liability on defense in the finals? No. By the way, Boston was better than Dallas. That's the end of that story. I don't care about.
- [30:32]
Ryan Rosillo
It was also a bad basketball matchup too, with, like, the way they would execute. So. Sorry I interrupted, but keep going.
- [30:39]
Will Kane
No, but. But the point is, that doesn't cause you to navel gates. That's not a long look in the mirror. You ran up against a really good basketball team in Boston. So I don't buy the defense thing whatsoever. The conditioning thing. Here's the only way. I loved what you said with Bill this weekend. I repeated it at breakfast. I don't care if he's smoking cigarettes while bringing the ball up the court. He's Luka Doncic. I mean, that's perfect. I don't care about his conditioning right now. Now, I do think they worry about his long term, how he wears long term. I do think they think, okay, we're one year away from the Supermax. $70 million a year. He is clearly not that dedicated to getting in peak physical condition. How does that play? I don't know. 30 is still five years away. So for me, I'm like, it'll play fine. I don't care about what he is at 30. But are they worried he's not going to be good at 27, 28? And you're sitting on this deal. I'm curious what you think about this, Raso, because one of the only things I could come up with and again, I posted on X is, you know, you love the NBA. A lot of people think that I won't because of my politics, but I love the NBA. Specifically, I love the Mavericks. So I don't have a vested interest. I don't have a political desire to kick the NBA in the crotch. But I do. I am capable of reading facts. And the ratings are not good. Quite honestly, Rosillo, I ha. I rate higher at 4 than the NBA does in primetime and early shots fired. They may beat me in the demo, but I'm gonna be honest on that as well. Not by that much. So the point is, the ratings are not good for the NBA, okay? All the people go, well, kids consume the NBA different TikTok. You don't monetize social media in the same way you monetize a TV contract. So you have to ask at some point, is there a Correction in the TV revenue market? Like the NHL had a reset in the mid 2000s when their salaries got out of control. And you say, okay, well, if that's coming for the NBA, are these supermax deals at $70 million a year unsustainable? If the current economics of the NBA don't continue, maybe they do continue, maybe they don't. ESPN has an endless appetite for live sports programming. So I don't know, but that's the only thing I can come up with. But even at that, Rossillo, this ownership group is loaded. Like they've got a lot of money. So I don't think they're a penny pinching ownership group worried about the, you know, the, the black and red of a financial spreadsheet into the future.
- [33:09]
Ryan Rosillo
I have more work to do on the ratings thing because I think at times the way the ratings cycle gets treated is there'll be this downturn, right? And then that downturn is supposed to tell you the future, right? Because remember when the NFL had had a dip, it was, well, it's concussions, right? Concussions were going to end football. No kids were ever going to play football again. I think you and I were doing shows Back then, and I was like, I. Any of you ever been to the South? Okay. Like, I think people are still going to play football. And then it was because it was Kaepernick, right? And then it was because it started to become like a bit of a, A, A political divide where if you were on the right, you wanted to see the, the ratings go down a little bit because it kind of justified some of your political beliefs. And I just felt like that kind of falls to this, like, polling of one stuff that'll happen, be like, oh, my uncle doesn't watch it anymore.
- [34:01]
Will Kane
Both sides, you remember, you remember both sides because you remember the debate about, oh, the NBA is going to replace the NFL. It became a proxy cultural debate. But I.
- [34:09]
Ryan Rosillo
All I'm saying, that was another Cuban thing. That was another Cuban thing. Cuban was trying to say that.
- [34:13]
Will Kane
Yeah, he drove that. So first take.
- [34:16]
Ryan Rosillo
So, like, when we, when we look at the ratings part of it, I need, I need a little bit more data. But ultimately, because I, I am working on something on this, and I'm just, I'm not done yet, and it sounds like it's an NBA guy, I can potentially be pushing it back against the idea that there's declining ratings. But here's what we do know. Any declining rating or any declining rating forecast is irrelevant to the bigger business deals. Because you could have. As long as you have the Live rights program and you have all of these games, you can say, all right, year to year, like, this is where we're at. Go back 10 years. This is where we're at. And be like, okay, why would you invest this? They just did the TV deal. So to me, the TV deal and the ratings and the fact that it's been renewed, it, what, triple again? And it was beyond the projections because there was a long time we were like, why are some of these teams changing hands? Oh, no. Is the TV deal coming in way lower than they thought or some of these guys deciding to get out now? Because this is the decline. The, the franchise acquisition bubble is finally starting to happen. And then none of that happened because the TV deal came in massive. So the reason I think it's important to go through all this stuff is, okay, fine, maybe it is a declining product in the way that we equate, like, what is successful and what is not successful based on, I think at times, some very outdated, dated and domestic television numbers. But I, I can't sit here and say that anybody's wrong, that it's looking at that way. The point is, is 350 million to Luke is irrelevant because the money's already backed in. In four years from now of whatever that extension would have been. Luke is making less. The same way the quarterback renewal cycle happens, we're like, I can't believe Jared Goff is making all this money. Look at that. Guaranteed money. And then three years later, you're like, that contract isn't even that bad anymore at 25. Whatever your concerns are about Luca, there's no financial conditioning argument that I would hear that I. Cause here's the thing. Then you could just trade them. So I don't know if you want to follow up on that, because I still have a couple other questions.
- [36:14]
Will Kane
All I would say on that is I think ultimately I'm in the same place as you. I'm spitballing, trying to find a rationale that's for something that is, on its face, unjustifiable and irrational. The money side of it all. And you're right. Well, first of all, the league's primary revenue source is TV contracts. So if viewership goes down, you would think at some point the value of those TV contracts would go down. But it hasn't happened. To your point, they keep going up, and that's in part because TV itself, cable is declining, and live sports and to some extent, news are the last holdouts. And so kind of their land grab becomes more valuable as everything else goes down. You do wonder, at some point, does it catch up even to those highest points on the mountain. But again, this is why I don't disagree with what you're saying, Lucas. $350 million deal would be within the scope of a current TV rights deal. So you're not going to pay bad for it. You've already got that revenue baked in. So I'm with you again. It's going to take me back to. I think, Nico, I'm going to let you take this where you want. It's clear that Nico saw Luca as two things. I think you're right. He saw him as a problem. Okay. I don't think everything was as hunky dory behind the scenes as you'd want to believe. Whatever that means. How you manage a star, your relationships with stars, even Luca's relationship with other stars. I'm not suggesting there's anything bad there, but maybe I've been led to believe it's not as rosy as it always looks. And secondarily then, Nico saw Luka as an asset, not as an icon. And there's a difference. And so that asset, he was willing to Flip. And maybe he's right. Maybe they're now better on defense and maybe they have a two to three year window where they're, you know, the Mavericks aren't gone. They're going to be very competitive, presumably presuming these 31 year olds don't get injured. But I don't. The problem is he's not an asset. He's not just another player, even a very good one. He's an icon. And I don't think he's just an icon in Dallas. I think he is a Lee, and that's obvious now. Look, he's going to be the face of the league because he's a Laker even more now, you know, and you just traded away the, the icon of the NBA.
- [38:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Two things that we finish up here. What I cannot understand is if you were going to make him available, why you would make him available to only one team. And the answer to that, as I've talked to enough teams and I talked about in the open, is that Nico Harrison looked at, looked at Anthony Davis as like the guy he wanted more than everybody else. But it still does not justify, like, you couldn't get another pick. You couldn't, you couldn't figure out a way to like, hey, I need just a little bit more. I need a sweetener here. I'm going to get destroyed. I'm trading this guy. Like, give me, give me a little something here. If you had heard, I already know the answer to this, but if you had heard he had canvassed the league for a couple weeks and we had the normal cycle of, of a shams or a windhorst up on TV going, like, there are rumblings that Luke is available. Then we get like the two week Runway to talk about all the different hypotheticals. Like, you almost get to like have an appetizer to that moment on Saturday night where you're bracing yourself for it. Like a content appetizer. If you had known the, that this wasn't just about one team he negotiated with, which I can't understand, would you feel better about it today?
- [39:37]
Will Kane
Well, that, well, the one team thing feeds the conspiracy back to the ratings. Oh, my God, we got to get ratings up. Make Luca a Laker. I don't generally believe. Well, do I believe in conspiracies? I'll let the audience decide whether or not I believe in conspiracies. The. The. You want to just do 30 minutes on that for a minute, Priscilla? Should we just dig into a few?
- [40:02]
Ryan Rosillo
We're gonna make that a YouTube only.
- [40:04]
Will Kane
Okay. All Right. Subscribers. That's for subscribers.
- [40:07]
Ryan Rosillo
You have to really want this content.
- [40:10]
Will Kane
I. I guess, you know, like. Like, intellectually, like, theoretically, yeah, that would have gone down easier, but in the end, I wouldn't have wanted. And that would have also. That wouldn't have been any good either. If you had said they. I literally. This is kind of personal to me. If you had said they have traded him to Milwaukee for Giannis, maybe, maybe I could get behind that eventually. Maybe that is the one. Because I really like Giannis. I just don't. I don't. There's nothing else. I don't care how many first round picks. He's. Luka Doncic.
- [40:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Last thing, as we said at the beginning, we'll be on every day, Fox News 4 Eastern. I was with you early in the ESPN days. Like, who's this? Fill in. You know, we've told the story before. Like, full head of hair shit. He's pretty smart. I think he's smarter than I am. And then we became friends and we did a bunch of shows together, and who knows, like, things had gone a different way, maybe we would have done shows together for a long time. But we. We both had goals. We both had goals. And, you know, I'm looking at you realizing that you're reaching a goal. You know something? You're like, am I one of these guys? Like, you have those moments. You're like, could I potentially? And then once you decide, like, yeah, I think I can be one of those guys. Well, you have now become one of those guys. What does this mean to you?
- [41:36]
Will Kane
Well, I don't. I kind of know what you mean by I've become one of those guys. I mean, I can. I'm not doing faux humility when I tell you I've never thought about it in that way. And I'll be personal with you in the audience. And you. And I texted and I said, look, to do what we do, you have to have a combination of a couple of things, which is narcissism, insecurity, and ambition. But. But no, I'm. Of course I'm ambitious. And to have my name on a show and have my own hour on Fox News is incredibly flattering. And it's. It's somewhat of a celebratory moment. But the real celebration for me is that I've been making a commute. Dude, I haven't unpacked my Dopp kit for nine years. That includes my time back to espn when I would go spend two or three nights in a hotel in. At the Homewood Suites in Bristol. I guess technically it's Southington, but I have lived out of adopt kit for nine years except for the one year of COVID and I moved back to Texas five years ago where I'm from and I live in Dallas and this is my life and this is where I'll die. I'm never moving, at least not as a primary residence. And I, I, I, I. To get to do this from Dallas is the real victory for me. That's what it is. They made my dreams come true. When it comes to. I get to go to my son's Friday night football games. I'm not missing soccer games anymore. I'm not commuting to New York. That's it. Everything else for Sillo is icing. And as for our friendship, stick around because maybe I'll put you in my cabinet.
- [43:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Maybe you have bigger aspirations than I, than I thought. Maybe I'll. I don't know. I might have to get some sort of hair update, some transplants.
- [43:14]
Will Kane
I'm thinking Secretary of Commerce. That's what I'm, that's where I'm leaning right now. Secretary of Commerce Ryan Rosillo.
- [43:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know. What does that guy do?
- [43:22]
Will Kane
Something big Tariffs.
- [43:25]
Ryan Rosillo
What is last question. What's the biggest, what's the biggest difference between ESPN and Fox News?
- [43:35]
Will Kane
God. You know what's interesting? This came up this weekend. I was at one of my kids soccer games and somebody brought up hate and vitriol and I was like, you know what, man, I've got pretty thick skin at this point. The most I ever got is not in politics and not at Fox, it's at espn. And that's by nature of a lot of things and topics and times that we were all going through from 16 to 20. But I think, you know what's the biggest difference from an audience perspective? It's, it's, there's an alternative media to what, you know, what I have to say on Fox who will really, really nefariously cut what you have to say and recharacterize it. But you just let go. I'd let go of that. I had friends at espn. Everybody wants to think that I didn't, that everybody hated me. Maybe they did behind my back. Nuts, my face. I had friends at espn. I loved my five years at espn. I loved working with you talking. My favorite thing about what we do is when that I have a relationship off camera, when the microphones go off, do we have more to say? Do we have more to hang out? Ceruti will testify this Every commercial break, I went into the control room. So did you. You know, and I remember this. And I'd hung out, Hung out. The guys, Nuno, Bubba, Ceruti, we talked. I loved being with the fellas. I have. I certainly had that at Fox, but now most. A lot of my connections have gone on to run the Secretary of Defense or the Department of Transportation. But it's been real similar at Fox. I have great relationships in both places, and that's my favorite thing. It's LeBron and D. Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami. I now know the value of working with your friends.
- [45:15]
Ryan Rosillo
So maybe I should have asked this in a better way, um, because I think it's. It's the headline of, like, oh, what. What's the biggest difference? And I. I think that the difference, at least the way you're treated, is that if somebody's watching you on Fox News, they want to watch you on Fox News, where I felt like. And I even warned you against this, the role that you were being teed up on at espn, right at first take, I was like, hey, just be careful. Like, you can't go on and be the. This actually isn't racist guy every day of the week. Like, because then it becomes like, hey. Because I just know how. Because they did it to me one time. They were like, hey, this yocky way thing, do you want to defend them keeping the name of the street Yawkey Way? I was like, no. I was like, I don't give a shit. I was like, why would I? And they were like, really? They're like, you're from Boston, the Yawkeys? I went, well, I'll go on. And then I was watching it happen, and I was like, oh, no. And then we talked about it a little bit, but you're so good on the show, and it's this massive platform. So I think when you're. When the setup is, hey, we're going to roll out Will Kane for this, there's no way anybody's going to like you. There's no way anybody that's watching First Take regularly is going to be like, I like him. Okay? So I, I. You know what I mean? I mean, I'm not saying you got zero approval rating, but it's. You're. You're digging yourself out of a hole at the start of every single segment. I think is. And maybe it looks like you still want to disagree with my wife. That's fine.
- [46:37]
Will Kane
No, no, I don't. Um, my wife used to tell me, hey. She used to Say to me, why don't you start? Because, you know, okay. Also, there's the design of first take, which is. The design is get to the disagreement. The first take is not fake, except it does away with the pleasantries of normal conversation that you could call fake that most of us do. So in other words, like, don't go, well, I see your point. You know, honestly, Max did too much of that, and that's why it didn't work for Max on first day. I see your point. Get straight to the part where you don't see their point. My wife used to be like, why don't you just say, like, at the beginning of some of these. These really contentious conversations, you know, I see your point. Or I get that, and here's where I agree. And then go in and I'm like, no. Like, I'm going straight for the counterpunch to the nose right off the bat. I mean, because I do have a deep disagreement, and so we might as well get to it.
- [47:28]
Ryan Rosillo
I actually like that, and I think that's why the show and the dynamic works. But I think the question I'd like a better answer on, because I didn't ask it the right way, is that are there more similarities, perhaps. Are there more similarities navigating the dynamic of becoming somebody who's a regular part of the television rotation? Is it just like every other place in tv?
- [47:51]
Will Kane
I'm going to answer that two ways. You're going to find both unsatisfactory because I think I know what you want, but I don't think I can give it to you. I have a lot of. I think I have a lot of self awareness. I know you do. Boy, you think about this stuff a lot. You think about it too much. But I think about it a lot, too. Like, how does this work? How did I do? Why did that not work? Which is good. It's like watching game tape of yourself, which I don't. I don't. I don't think you do either. I don't watch game tape, but I do think about what I said and how it played and these kind of things, but I don't change, Rasul. That's the problem.
- [48:20]
Ryan Rosillo
I listened, by the way, the other day, I mistakenly hit play on one of my own episodes. And it had been a really long time since I had listened to myself do an entire show. So I was like, you know what? It's been a long time. Listen to. Listen to the whole show. And then I got done and I went. I was like, fucking awesome.
- [48:42]
Will Kane
The Funny thing is, I don't know if I believe that or not. It's hard sometimes with Rossillo sarcasm. Was he super hard on himself or was he super proud? The, the, the thing about it is though, at the end of that, I know this sounds like I'm patting myself on my back, but I just know, I know myself at this point. I have one currency, one. It's authenticity. Believe it or not, I don't want to be the smartest dude. I don't want to be. I just want to be real and I want to be me. So I'm going to do that in both places and that's the same and that's just the way it is. Let the chips fall where they may. You're also asking about something else. It's behind the scenes stuff. I was never more laid back Rossillo than I have been. When I went to law school. I stopped caring about grades and it was the most liberating three years of my life. And I learned more. I just stopped. I didn't want a big law firm job. I wasn't trying to make 150 grand my first year out of law school. I didn't want that. So there was no point in me trying to be law review. So I didn't. And I learned so much when I got to Fox. I have not, of course I'm ambitious, so I'm not going to pretend like I didn't have conversations or like where does this leading and do I have a path? But I didn't angst about it. I was pretty laid back about I'm doing this, I'm enjoying my job, we'll see where it goes. And there's a lot of reasons decisions are made to your point. I don't know them all and I was as surprised as anybody when this came down. But it really helped being laid back and not trying to white knuckle the steering wheel.
- [50:16]
Ryan Rosillo
That ended up being a great answer because I, I don't know if it's something where it is the surrounding area. You know, I'm not, not really nailing the terminology here, but you know, you could say like, is it the dynamic, is it the setting, is it the people or is it where you're at? And really the answer is usually like where you're at because for me ESPN was an angst filled experience. And is that specific to them or is that about your own security and kind of where, where you're at in your own head and it's kind of mirrors your law school thing of like Just the Zen moment of all. Right. I'm not going to worry about any of this stuff anymore, and I'm going to be fine. And it's an awesome place to get to. It usually takes a little bit longer, and it usually takes even longer if you're going to try to be on TV in front of everybody.
- [51:08]
Will Kane
Right. Well, it took a while. I mean, I'm no overnight success. I've been doing this for 14, 15 years. I'm 49 years old. Are you 50? You're 50. That's. Must suck. Sorry, man. Your birthday's right after mine. I think we're real close. You.
- [51:23]
Ryan Rosillo
April, August.
- [51:26]
Will Kane
August. See, we don't know each other that well. I just knew it started with an A. So I'm a little older.
- [51:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Close. Two choices.
- [51:34]
Will Kane
But, uh, you know, I'll tell you two things. He seemed to work against one another. One of my friends told me one time, hang around the hoop. Hang around the hoop. See what kind of rebound bounces your way. Most people take themselves out of the game. Most people strap on their own suicide vest and blow up their own opportunities. And I think that's true. I think that's really true. So hang around the hoop. The second is you. And you and I talked here and there, but you're an inspiration. And in. In that you're an example of what is increasingly true for everyone who does what we do. You don't have to white knuckle this. You don't have to worry about backroom politics. You don't worry about who likes you and who doesn't like you. You don't worry about the tap on the shoulder because you can go build out there on your own like you have done, you know, at Spotify.
- [52:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but again, it wasn't going to happen until I had gone through all the other stuff to go, okay, well, this isn't. This isn't the way to do it. And then you want to blame everybody else and all these different things. Things. But look, none of that. We've talked about that. We don't need to share that a ton with the audience because I think I've done a million versions of it already. But I'm really happy for you. You deserve it. You're terrific on television. Like I said, I'm happy. And I'm also biased because I got to know you personally. So thank you.
- [52:43]
Will Kane
Thank you, man. So let me just say, don't let there be any riots in the corridors of the ringer. We're just friends who talk sports. Next time on the YouTube special. We will talk about how to address the Mexican drug cartels. The, you know, what the legislature will do with the tax rate and you know, cutting the deep state. We'll get into all of that. But so save your angst for that episode of I do.
- [53:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, no, I have notes. I have notes, but I'm not, they're not fully formed yet. Not 100% sure where I'm at yet. Thanks, Will.
- [53:13]
Will Kane
Thanks, Ryan.
- [53:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Another piece that I want to just spend a few minutes on and we're going to bring Ceruti in here. But dear and Fox on the move here. We had heard that's how trades are supposed to work. Rumblings that he's available. Sacramento exploring opportunities. Other teams listed as potentially monitoring the situation. So De'Aaron Fox to San Antonio. Sacramento gets Zach Levine from Chicago. They get a first round pick in 25 top 14 protected, a 25 second round pick, 27 first round pick from San Antonio, a 28 second round pick from Denver and then they get their 28 second round pick back. So we're looking at a couple first and three seconds. The Bulls moving Levine out, end up with Zach Collins, Trey Jones, Kevin Herder. Sad day, sad day for us on the pod. And a 25 first round pick, which is their own pick back this year that remember was out at San Antonio. It was top 10 protected. So they get control of their own pickback. So you know Sacramento, once Fox was going to do the extension, they were stuck and they want to get in front of this now. It would be great if the player wasn't Zach Levine that they were getting back. And you know, some of you are going to think I'm nuts, some of you going to see the scoring, the first step, which is incredible, the three point shooting, how steady he's been. He's been healthy this year and you like him, that's fine. I don't, I think he's a losing player and I'm not going to move off of that. I think there's tons of evidence in my favor but he's probably going to score like 48 one night and then people are going to tell me that he's awesome. So I think Sacramento was stuck. But the saddest thing I think out of all of this is just Sacramento's window of, of like look at what Sacramento's doing. Like they're doing a good job putting together a really nice starting five. And then maybe a couple years ago when you look at a really high seating in the west, it's like, well, they were the healthiest unit their top five played this percentage of possible minutes like it's off the charts. Incredible health, luck, but good for them, you know. And now it just feels like they're moving further and further away from all of that stuff. I don't have a problem with the DeRozan thing at all. I've said numerous times, like if you want to close the game with Harrison Barnes or DeMar DeRozan, although I really do like some of the Harrison Barnes stuff, believe it or not with San Antonio, do you want to close with DeRozan, with the four other guys, with Sabonis, with Keegan, with Monk and with Fox or do you want to close, you know, with. With Barnes? Well, no, it makes sense, you know, it makes sense to have DeRozan in there. Maybe DeRozan, despite getting up there in age, a bit of an insurance against something like this. Once they could kind of read the tea leaves on the future with the Aaron Fox. So San Antonio gets somebody real. They also have to move Castle, which I don't think he was even. I don't even think there was any way any of that was even going to happen even for. Lot of us are probably overrating Castle today, but that's what we do with guys who are 40 plus games into their rookie season or NBA career in this case. Same thing. Redundant. But didn't profile as like this massive offensive guy. And I think from what my expectations were from him, from what I see saw offensively of him at Yukon to where he's at now, like I think it's, it's really nice and it's not a guy you want to be in business or trading on top of being in the rookie contract, everything else. So I just like De'Aaron Fox and sometimes I just want to be allowed to say I like a player. So yeah, he's not a bunch of other guys and yeah, he's not perfect and two years ago was filthy how nice he was and there's some numbers that you could go through and be like, well is he ever going to be that guy again? My guess would be maybe not the counting stats but the efficiency and the fact that you have some defensive options, including the best defensive defensive option in the NBA and Wembanyama behind him. So I, I think it, it does a lot of things with San Antonio where even though Chris Paul's been so good at like dictating a lot of the stuff they can do, I mean there's only so much tread in the tire there. He can be Limited at times offensively. So now you're adding in somebody who De'Aaron Fox, like, when he's going, he's just really, really tough to deal with. And you have a financial commitment coming up here, but like waiting around for perfect. Waiting around for the person that's better than dear Fox, hoping that some guy in his 30s is going to want to play in San Antonio with Wembanyama. Like, does that even make sense for them? So I like the trade. Bulls fans, though, probably looking at this collective group and saying now, after trading DeRozan, Caruso and Levine, that's zero first round picks coming back. Technically they do get control of their own back, but it's not like adding an extra first. So I like the trade for San Antonio, I understand it for Sacramento. They're picking a guy that I don't like and then they're Chicago. And all you really need to understand here, if that's what Chicago got back, like, that's how bad the market was for lavine. So I think the market backs my feelings about the player. I want to bring in Ceru here really quick because it's one final exercise in this Luca thing, which I could probably do a Wednesday pot on it too, but we will not do that. We'll be back to football. Super bowl week. Did not expect to be doing a Monday NBA podcast, by the way, the week leading up to it. So, as I've said, and it feels like it's been backed up, it's just Nico Harrison wanted Anthony Davis so badly, he didn't even want to know who else was available. So if we did the just hypothetical here, like, where do we draw the line? Like, are there nos? Are there nos? Where if Nico calls the other team and offers Luca for that other team's best guy, how many teams are actually saying no? Which is again, why I think this entire thing was ridiculous. To do it this way, to have a market of one team. Maybe Nico didn't want to get a yes from some of those other teams and have to have the internal debate of this guy over clearly one of his favorite players in the league and Anthony Davis. So what do we got? Seruti?
- [59:07]
Ceruti
Yeah, I was just thinking, like, as a Magic fan and now we're going through our shit right now. It's just a different story for a different day. But, like, you know, hypothetically, if they call the Magic, we're like, hey, if we offered you Paulo and picks and players, like, would you say no? We'll get to that in a second. I kind of Want to work our way down though. So it's essentially like, does the other team say no? Luca trades. I'll start with Wemby. That's a no, right? Like, there's no way they're trading Wemby. The spurs are trading Wemby for Luca.
- [59:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, it's a no.
- [59:33]
Ceruti
No. Easy enough nuggets. 29 year old Jokic. I still think it's a no.
- [59:38]
Ryan Rosillo
I think it's a no.
- [59:40]
Ceruti
Sga, okc, just straight up.
- [59:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a no. Okay. Because it's a health thing. And even though I, you know, I don't think there's a good day, I've thought SGA is better than Luca, but it's. He's the next guy on the list, right? So SGA's healthier and that group, like, you would be disrupting this group. Then when they get checked back, like, we think they can win an NBA title with that group right now. And so then you're thinking about Luca and you're going, what am I bringing in if these guys are trading? I'm like, what's the stuff that I don't know about Luca? And meanwhile, like, this Thunder team acts like a high school team. They seem like they love each other. I've spent, what, three different segments this season just raving about the personality of this team and the buy in and everybody understanding. So I think it's a no. Only because there's a disruption part of that that you're not sure about. You can't. If you're presti. You couldn't say, hey, if we bring Luke in, all of it's fine. It's awesome. He picks right back up. Even though I believe Luke is the better player and the health part of it. That's why I think it's a no. Do you disagree?
- [60:54]
Ceruti
I agree. I don't think. I don't think they do that. Now. I saw some people being like, you know, could you get funky and say, what about Jalen Williams, Chet throwing some other fillers, some good players, a bunch of draft picks. Like, would you. Would OKC say no to that? I actually think they'd still say no. I think. I think they're perfect. Like, I don't think they want to screw with what they have right now. Even though, like, obviously Lucas the. The better asset.
- [61:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that's. That's a different conversation. Because then you can also look at it from the Dallas side of like all of these teams that I can't believe they didn't reach out To. And you're like, well, right. But Dallas clearly didn't want to just reset and rebuild and then picks, and they've got to move these other guys and all this stuff. Like, they were not in the deal of, like, let's get a marginal player and some contract filler. But now we have control of your next four drafts. What I would say is get a swap in there. Get a swap. Or to maybe get a second first if you're trading somebody who, when we heard it, no one believed that it was actually true. So ask for a swap. I just would love the idea that Palinka's like, no, sorry. Deal breaker, swap.
- [61:59]
Ceruti
I just want. Yeah, I wish we would have known what those conversations were like, because I honestly think you could have asked for four. And are you still saying no for Luca? Like, I, I, I think the Lakers still say yes. Like, I think it's. You have to do the trade.
- [62:14]
Ryan Rosillo
So I, I, I think about it all the time. Like, just the hypothetical. If you had that job, and the other guy's like, all right, Priscilla, you can have Luca, but I need. And I, you know, you say no at first. You try to figure out, like, where the middle is, and then he's like, okay, well, I need the two first. Sorry. Okay, well, when I say no, like, you're not getting Luca. Yeah, no pro. No problem with that. We're good. I mean, credit to Palinka, man.
- [62:41]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [62:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Or he's like, yeah, so who. I'm. I'm not bidding against anybody, and you're thanking me for keeping a secret.
- [62:46]
Ceruti
This is. I was trying to think of, like, what the equivalent of this would be. Like, would you feel bad because they're apparently friends? Like, they're. They're buddies. Like, would you feel bad just fleecing your friend? Like, I'd feel bad policing a friend in, like, a fantasy trade, let alone.
- [62:59]
Ryan Rosillo
I think I'm an incredibly loyal friend. But if you're friends with somebody in the NBA and you're worried about their feelings, then you shouldn't have the job.
- [63:09]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [63:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, I think those guys all understand that ultimately, they're all competing. Like, there's guys that are really good friends with each other, guys that can't stand each other. But you. You can't. I don't think you. When you are given the. The honor, really. I mean, it's like, you're this elected official, but you're not elected. And all of the millions of people care about the outcome of these games. Like, you owe it to them to do the best. And at Times the most ruthless version of the job.
- [63:37]
Ceruti
I just think it's funny, like, if. Because if, say, Pelinka was the GM of, like, the Hornets, right? And he goes to Nico, goes to him and goes, hey, I've got this deal, you know, it's Luca for ad. Like, what do you think Polinka's like, you're an idiot. Absolutely not. Absolutely.
- [63:55]
Ryan Rosillo
And.
- [63:55]
Ceruti
And Nico had no friend. Nobody. I mean, I don't. Maybe he did, and he still didn't care and was just stubborn about it. He had nobody in his life that was like. That he could run this by and be like, this is a horrible idea. I just. That's. That's another sad element.
- [64:07]
Ryan Rosillo
It's worth. It is worth repeating, as I did in the open, just in case, you know, you're driving around, you could miss it. People rave about Nico. Okay.
- [64:15]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [64:16]
Ryan Rosillo
This is not the gm where there have been guys over the years, and there's just not that many of them anymore. If I don't even know who, like, top of my head, who I would think of as, like, the GM everybody else makes fun of, but Nico is praised. Okay. And I do wonder, like, if the. Of the. The mob moving all in one direction be like, is there any scenario where this dude at the end of it all goes. I was right. I still can't imagine only calling one team and then being like, I'm psyched. The Pelinka kept us quiet.
- [64:49]
Ceruti
And the Nico thing, that. That may all be true, but he still has the, like, the. The Steph Curry Nike pitch. Right. That everybody likes to throw in his face, too. So it's like, well, that made the round signs.
- [65:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that wasn't great. That was a long time ago. Different job. So. All right, I. Look, I still can't stop talking about the trade. I've done, like, four segments on it already. Let's go. Let's go back to it. Yeah.
- [65:09]
Ceruti
Bucks, straight up. I think the Bucks say no. Cause I think. I think, like, you don't lose your guy unless you absolutely have to. And that's. That's their guy.
- [65:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Giannis. That one might be closer to a yes only because, like, the irony of the Giannis Luca thing is that Giannis has been somebody now for, like, two plus years, where others can be like, watch out for that one. Like, pay attention to what's going on there. Oh, the reason they did the Dame deal is because of him. And, like, you know, ownership didn't want. You're just like, okay. All of the things that have been theorized like, behind the scenes with Giannis, that just happened with Luca. So. And we've never, we had never heard any of those things, so it feels like a bit like the Tatum one. I don't know if Tatum's next, so it might be a no because he's their guy. But would you be trading Giannis uncertainty for Lucas certainty? It would depend solely on, like, know how a conversation. You'd have to be like, we have to make sure that we're going to be able to sign him. Is he going to be happy here? Is he going to go like, I don't want anything to do with this place?
- [66:17]
Ceruti
So, yeah, I think these are operating off the assumption that that's a yes. Like, that he would be like, all right, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll play here and sign a deal.
- [66:24]
Ryan Rosillo
If it's a yes. If, if it's a yes that Luca would be there long term, then I think Milwaukee would do it.
- [66:30]
Ceruti
Even if Giannis is like, yeah, I'm here for five years, too.
- [66:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, that's different then. That's different. I'm, I'm dealing with, like, uncertainty and made up certainty. So, yeah, and it might be made up uncertainty, too.
- [66:42]
Ceruti
The next one is, is the late. Is, is the Celtics. And, yeah, Tatum.
- [66:46]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean.
- [66:46]
Ceruti
Cause that was. I, I, I still think I'll let you talk first, but would, would they, would the Celtics go, yeah, we'll give you Tatum for, for Luca right now.
- [66:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Straight up, because they just won and he plays every game. And, like, this is the most fun I've ever had watching Tatum. I mean, what he was doing last night, granted that Sixers team super beat up, but they had to come back from 26 down. I mean, he's playing point guard. Nobody really seems to. It doesn't get, like, talked about enough nationally that he's basically their point guard and then he's playing center defensively against Dallas, you don't have to deal with any of the conditioning injury stuff. You don't have to deal with any of those things, and you just want it with your guy. So Luca is the better player. But I, I think they'd say no. I think Ange would have said yes. I think Ange would have gone, thanks for the championship bucket because Luke is a better player.
- [67:41]
Ceruti
I think you're probably right on, Ange. All right, this is where it gets interesting. They call up the T wolves and say, we'll give you Luca for ant. I mean, you have to make the salaries work. So they have to be Other things in there, but we're just.
- [67:55]
Ryan Rosillo
We're just having fun here. We don't have to worry about trade machine grade. I would do it. Minnesota wouldn't have to think very hard about it.
- [68:01]
Ceruti
I think I would, too. I think I would, too. So that's kind of.
- [68:04]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know. There's many people that like Ann as much as me, and I don't even have to think about it.
- [68:08]
Ceruti
I mean, again, Luke is 26. Like, it's. It sounds like he's in his late 20s. Like, you're still. You're still getting ideally, you know, however many years left I go, Bear would probably be excited about that. So that's a yes. All right. So that's, like, kind of the first.
- [68:20]
Ryan Rosillo
All right.
- [68:20]
Ceruti
There's the line in the sand, another.
- [68:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Teammate that can't stand me.
- [68:25]
Ceruti
This is the one that kind of got me thinking as a Magic fan, like Paulo. You know, I'm sure the Magic would do Paulo for Lucas straight up, but I was like, take it even a step further. Like, if the Mavs really wanted to, like, we're getting other offers from teams. You really had to, like, make an offer for him to get him and beat everybody else out. Like, would you offer Paulo, Anthony Black, Jonathan, Isaac picks? Like, would you do that? Like, is Luca that much better now and then, whatever the next five years, whatever years than what you think Paulo ceiling is? And I think the answer actually is yes.
- [68:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I would say whatever you guys want to do. Would you do Paolo and Suggs and then figure out the rest?
- [69:06]
Ceruti
And then I get. I get the Euro connection of. Of Luca and Franz and make the other pieces work. I think I would do it.
- [69:13]
Ryan Rosillo
I think, what if it was Franz and Paulo?
- [69:15]
Ceruti
I don't think I do that. I don't think I'd do that. No. Because I just think that's. You're talking, like, two potential, like, one top 10 player and another top 25 player. Like, I think Suggs isn't. Suggs isn't. I think I would do it if it was Thugs and Paulo. I think. I don't know if I do. It was France.
- [69:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, all right, I know you guys like centers a little. Can we interest you in a little Wendell action?
- [69:37]
Ceruti
Goga, we heard you like defense. You want Jonathan Isaac.
- [69:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that's going to be the line. Because from here on out, it's all yeses.
- [69:43]
Ceruti
Yeah. Cause I wrote down, like, the Cavs for Mitchell.
- [69:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Yes.
- [69:46]
Ceruti
Knicks, you can get. You know, get Brunson back. You know, reunite him like Cade you're doing that. So that's it. It's basically like the.
- [69:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Would Knicks fans do. Do Brunson and Cat, like, if the money worked. Brunson and Cat. And then you get Luca.
- [69:59]
Ceruti
How would you not.
- [70:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, I don't know. I think Knicks fans love this fucking team.
- [70:04]
Ceruti
I. I get why they do. And I. It's funny. I watched the Bing Bong video. They like the original long version one that.
- [70:10]
Ryan Rosillo
The original one's unbelievable. I. I could watch those guys. I was mad. I ran out of videos from those guys. I wanted more.
- [70:19]
Ceruti
So I get.
- [70:20]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, my new one is I was on Instagram. Cool. And there was this guy that was just posting his VR chat visits to everybody. I got. I got caught in like eight or nine of those. It was unbelievable. All right, anyway, back to reality.
- [70:36]
Ceruti
No, I think that's it. Yeah, I think I. The line is basically Aunt Paulo. So if you go down, like Bill's trade rankings. Trade value rankings, that's like, you know, right around 7, 8, 9.
- [70:45]
Ryan Rosillo
So the nose or what? So the nose are Wemby Jokic.
- [70:49]
Ceruti
Sga.
- [70:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Sga. That's like the hard nose. I still think SGA is. I gotta think about it. No, Jokic is a hard no. Wendy's a hard no. Just because of the possibility and where you're at in the timeline and all that kind of stuff.
- [71:07]
Ceruti
What mood I'm in are the Celtics and Bucks. So that's like a maybe. And then the yeses are. And Paula, I think that's right.
- [71:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. I think we did some good work there.
- [71:19]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [71:24]
Ryan Rosillo
He covers the Lakers. I see him every time I go to the games there. I've seen around LA for a while, and he does a great job on the NBA. Yovon Buha joins us from the athletic covers. As I said, the Lakers again. Buhas block his podcast, which I was checking out clips of this morning. So Saturday night, all of us. Are you serious? This is happening. So, like, normally I would ask why. Well, that's an easy yes. It's Luca. How. I think we know those pieces, but I'll ask more. Is there anything that you've been able to learn, Gather, like a piece that you've put together since late Saturday night till today that gives you a better understanding of this deal.
- [71:58]
Jovan Buha
Well, it seems like this was the rare trade going back to, like, old school MBA days where the two GMs just kept this between themselves and talking to people around the Lakers organization that I consistently talk to in different segments of the front office or the organization. Like These people that legitimately did not know that this trade was coming and had no idea about the. Just the inner workings of it. So I think that this was like the. The rare trait. Like, we've seen a few of these throughout recent NBA history, but I think nothing quite to this magnitude. So the fact that they were able to keep this between them, not let it leak out, not let the agents know, not let the players know, I think that's pretty rare in 2025. I think there's a lot to get into with this. I. I still don't understand it. I mean, I listen to your reaction with Bill right after it happened, and it was like, I'm totally in agreement with you. Like, there's just so many parts of this I still don't quite understand. And I think from the Lakers end, like, they. They now have a golden parachute into the next era of, you know, post LeBron. And now it seems like they're far better positioned than they were looking to be as recently as a couple days ago.
- [73:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, maybe that's the most interesting part of this because I've spent so much time on the Mavs thing. Like, it's. It's pretty clear. It. It resets 2025. It probably changes, like, what you're capable of doing. They've been playing better, but it's just a reminder that when somebody like this becomes available, none of your 2025 plans mean anything. And it's. It's a shift into whatever the Luca phase is. And maybe there's some other little piece here at the trade deadline, but, you know, on the perimeter, defensively between LeBron, Reeves and Luca, like, oh, my God. But it's like, well, you can't. No one would ever go, well, you know what I'd say? Yes, but I don't like our perimeter defense. And now we only have Jackson Hayes at center. So this doesn't make basketball sense right now. It. It speaks to just hit the reset button because you would hope to get one of these. Granted, Lakers is a little bit different with their history, but as I've said earlier, big franchises could go 25, 30 years and never get somebody like this. And they just got a. Yeah, and.
- [74:09]
Jovan Buha
And it feels like they've always, like, you could go, Luca, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq Magic, Kareem Baylor, West, Chamberlain. Like, the Lakers have a history of getting generational superstars and often trading for these guys in ways you wouldn't quite expect. And I think to your point, the. The kind of crazy thing was the, like, the context of this night was. The Lakers are coming off of one of their best wins of the season. I would, I would say argue to me, it was right up there with the Celtics win, because you win at MSG without Anthony Davis. And as you just said, like, Jackson Hayes started at center, and they went through half of that game playing centerless and playing these small ball looks. And so they complete a 4 and 1 Grammy trip. They've won 8 of 10. It looks like they're finally finding this identity. And at the time, the intel I was getting, and I know you and I spoke a little bit about this at the Laker Celtics game, was like, they're looking for something along the margins. Maybe they're going to add a big man, a couple second round picks, a couple first round picks, like, nothing seismic. And then all of a sudden, we're in the media room typing away on our post game stories and this tweet drops and none of us believe it. And we had to wait for shops to confirm it again and then start immediately calling and texting people. So I think for the Lakers, this was a situation that obviously Dallas approached them. They did not think Luka was available or that they could get him for that type package. So this was a situation where they just had to alter course in terms of. I think ideally they would have just kept things together and made a couple small moves. But when this opportunity presents itself, like, you can't say no.
- [75:50]
Ryan Rosillo
I look at the LeBron piece of this and we talked about it on Saturday a little bit. I've seen it discussed, like, oh, well, LeBron is so great on the ball, which is true. I mean, he's brilliant. That's one of my favorite things about his entire career. And it's kind of funny where it's like, well, some of these stupid podcasts, it'll be like, well, he doesn't actually have the scoring mentality of like, whatever. You're like, dude, whatever. You know, just, the guy's a brilliant, brilliant basketball player and he's put up plenty of scoring numbers. It would tell you he's a scorer, but he's just such a terrific passer and his vision, all these different things, like, that's the bonus on top of everything else. All right, but with Luca now at this phase, like, I think if LeBron stays for a couple more years. Now, granted, like the other day, I think it was last month, they were like, how much longer could you play? And he was like, at a high level, it was like five to seven years. I mean, it was insane. But whatever, I would expect him to answer it that way. So if he looks at his window with the Lakers and says, okay, this actually makes a little bit more sense, I think this is, this is actually a really good basketball fit now for him with where he's at in his career because like Austin Reeves has been running point guard. Even if I probably like the LeBron stuff now, the Knicks thing was a little different because OG hurts his foot, so he's out. So now Josh hart is on LeBron. LeBron was brilliant in his execution late in that game and Hart was also physically just overmatched on top of everything else. So there's all these LeBron on ball initiating the offense possessions that I love, but it was just a lot to ask of him to do that at this stage of his career. So that's why RE is doing it so much. So I do think that there's a basketball fit that makes way more sense as opposed to like LeBron and Luca in his prime. So there's another part of the LeBron future that I'm going to ask after that, but from like the basketball standpoint, I know it's an incomplete roster and everything, but would you agree that it actually is a, an assist to him as opposed to being redundant early in his career?
- [77:45]
Jovan Buha
I think so. And I think both players have now had the experience of adjusting to playing with co stars with LeBron, obviously going back to the heels with Wade and Bosch in Cleveland with Kyle, Kyrie and Kevin Love, and then now in LA with AD and then Luca with Kyrie. The one interesting part to me is that like they both have always been the Batman in that situation. It's always been more so the other stars adjusting more to them rather than them adjusting to them because they've clearly been the best player in those situations. This is kind of the first situation where they could look at each other and say like, they can make the case for why they're the better player or the better fit, whatever, and, and then they could also make the case for the other player to kind of take more control. So I, I do expect like Luka is 25, he's not even yet in his prime. I think he's obviously the, the better player between the two right now. So I, I think Luka should be the primary ball handler and point guard and you'll see a lot of Luka LeBron two man game. And we saw it with Team USA when he played a bit more off the ball and basically was like in the Draymond role with Steph and Luca and Steph aren't the same type of player, but you can imagine LeBron screening for Luca and hitting him in the short roll. And then now you have LeBron with a four on three advantage. You could either get downhill, get to the rim and finish, or he can drive and kick to shooters in the corner, cutters, whatever. So I, I think like, there will naturally be a learning curve here, an adjustment period for both guys in terms of learning to play with each other. They are both supercomputers, so there's going to be a bit of some growth and learning there. But I think ultimately, like, these are two of the smartest players in the league, two of the best passers in the league. There's a lot of similarities between them from a skill and playing style perspective. So I think I don't want to over complicate it. Like, I think these two guys will figure it out, but you can go one, four, pick and roll. Four, one pick and roll. You could have Luka screening for LeBron and popping or also, you know, getting hit in the short role and then making decisions. So I think, like, those two are going to have a great chemistry again. I think it's going to take some time, but I think offensively this team has a high ceiling. It's, as you've alluded to the defensive side and having Jackson Hayes as your starting center. That's where my questions begin.
- [80:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, two LeBron questions there. Is he still on the Lakers at the end of the week?
- [80:08]
Jovan Buha
Yes, that, that's my understanding that he's not going to. I mean, he has a no trade clause, so he would have to okay any trade. Like, I guess technically that there's a possibility here in the next three days. But as Chris Haynes reported, LeBron does not intend to ask out or, you know, so I think he's going to stay through the deadline.
- [80:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. Do you think that he opts out and then wants to do an extension with the Lakers this summer?
- [80:37]
Jovan Buha
I do, I do now. So he has a player option for next year. And as I reported, along with Shams at the end of last season, the intel we were getting was that he was likely looking at one to two more years, which would bring him to the end of the 2025, 26 season. I think that's still the general, you know, operating assumption around the league right now is that he's going to play one more year and likely retire at the end of 2026. But as, as you said, like he's talked about, I could Play five to seven more years. But we'll see what happens with Bryce James in terms of him being an NBA prospect and his timeline. So there are a lot of other factors that could come into play here. But I do think LeBron, whether he just opts into the player option or tries to sign an extension, and then eventually, like, the weird thing would be with signing an extension would be if you were going to play one more year, it wouldn't really make sense. Like, I guess you could get that number a little bit higher, but it wouldn't really make sense to, like, sign an extension and then say, I'm retiring. So I think he's gonna have to decide what he wants to do next year. But I do think that the. The operating assumption has been he's going to play one more year.
- [81:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. I touched on this in the open, too, where I've heard it said, whether it was, you know, in. In reports or people talking about it on shows or just phone calls that you're making, it's like, oh, the Lakers, you know, starting to get sick of the. This whole clutch thing. And my point would be like, well, yeah, they got sick of it to get Luca. Like, this is not. I don't think that that's the time, like, you can tell me that they're tired of clutch. This is not a great example to show that they now have this backbone where they're going to push back against all of this stuff. And that's why they traded Anthony Davis. They traded Anthony Davis because he just got Luka Doncic. All right, but what is. What is accurate about that dynamic, the angst that goes along with it? Because, you know, some people are kind of going back and replaying it of, like, well, when Anthony Davis asked for help, and then, you know, that's LeBron 101. And then this trade deadline, you know, all the passive aggressive stuff that, you know, that you're signing up for here, which I think ultimately is, like, really easy to ignore and super pointless, and we make a big deal out of it. I think the people that do it for a living are like, oh, cool, you want us to trade for a better player. Awesome. Thank you. Awesome tweet. Like, we'll see you with 7, 10 for tip. What do you think is fair about that dynamic?
- [82:59]
Jovan Buha
I. I certainly think it has been a bit strained through the years, maybe, to. To say the least. I think going back to the Russell Westbrook trade, that is a Sliding Doors moment in this whole LeBron 80 era. And just the. The dynamic between clutch and the Lakers. And if you look at like I, I whenever I do national shows and I get asked about how much control LeBron has, the, the thing I always say is like yes, that there are examples we can look at obviously drafting and signing Bronnie to a four year deal, but from an opportunity cost perspective he's making less than a, a typical vet minimum guy. So the Lakers are actually saving money on the back end of the roster. But Bronnie thing aside, obviously that that was in part a favor to LeBron and what he wanted. And then they'll often have several clutch guys on the the roster but, but again those are often vet minimum guys or at most it's been like mid level type guys. But, but again relatively low opportunity cost. If LeBron had his way over the last few years, they would have traded for Kyrie, they would have traded for Dejounte Murray, they would have traded for Zach Levine. LeBron has wanted a, a third star next to him in AD and primarily a third ball handling, you know, slash perimeter guy type star. Like he's, he's wanted to redo the Westbrook trade but, but do it with a better fitting third star. Lakers have not done that. Then even looking at AD where you know, AD has often been more the quiet guy, you know, he's not really making the passive aggressive remarks. AD wanted James Brago going back to the summer he, he was back like Bo was his guy, he was the guy that, that he was backing. They end up you know, signing or you know, agreeing to terms with JJ Redick. And that's to say nothing of like previously when LeBron had wanted Ty Lou and Monty Williams and they get Frank Vogel and then you go, Last few years 80 has wanted to play power forward. It's been no like the, the worst kept secret that 80 prefers to play power forward compared to center. He's just had to play center because the Lakers have not prioritized adding a center. And it's been if you look at from 20, 21 on, it's been a revolving door of vet minimum centers who are all like fringe rotation players. So naturally looking at the roster you have to shift 80 up to play center because the, the options are guys who probably shouldn't be playing in like a team with championship aspirations. So I think if you look at just like, like take all the, the words and, and whatever put that to the side, just look at the actions. The Lakers have not really done what LeBron and AD have wanted for, for several years now or if they have it's been very like small opportunity cost type situation. So I think really since the Westbrook trade, we can trace back like the, the relationship fraying a little bit. And it felt like at some point here it was going to come to a natural conclusion. And I, I do think not going to say like a clutch star will never be a Laker again, because I think it's certainly possible. But once LeBron is done being a Laker, I think, you know, that that relationship has kind of run its course.
- [86:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. That's why when you were talking about the, the price stuff, I'm like, are we gonna do this all?
- [86:06]
Jovan Buha
Well, maybe somewhere else, right? Like, I, I mean, could be, but yeah.
- [86:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that's why I chug and I'm. We don't need to stay on that because I, you know, we're talking about somebody in high school where I think it's just entirely different. Like once you have an NBA jersey on, you're getting a contract, you're, you're part of the conversation now and, and we're going to talk about it. But I did think after that Philly disaster, it was nice to see JJ Reddick get him out there from the MSG game. I thought it was really smart by Reddick to just do it so quickly, like, hey, get another game. They had taken control. It was really a phenomenal Laker performance from start to finish. Their defense and everything and the crowd's chanting and I think other coaches would just be defiant, be like, oh, you're going to make a mockery of this whole thing like you're chaining Bronnie. We're not going to put him in. And instead he puts them in. And again, the basketball part of it's fairly irrelevant because he probably not an NBA player right now. All right, that's all I want to do on that. So I don't even want any follow up to any of that stuff. Let's stay in the AD thing because you know that he wants to play power forward. And it's funny because in theory now with the roster with Dallas, granted it dependent upon, you know, Gaffer and what Lively's availability could be, if he's even going to be available towards the end of the year, that there are centers on paper that he should be playing with. My guess would be Dallas and Jason Kidd will close with him at center the same way the Lakers did when they told him he wasn't really the center. But it just made way more sense. And if you look at that Heat finals when they wanted five years ago, I was going through the minutes this morning. LeBron led the team in minutes at 236. Davis played 229. The only other big that's on the radar here is DWIGHT Howard at 71 minutes in that series in particular. So I understand his point. And, you know, some of it's a bit like I've had these injuries. Like, dude, you've had injuries wherever you want to pretend that you were aligned and how you were introduced and everything. You were around him for years. Yeah. What is. What is this about when every number tells you and the reality is, like, Dallas is going to close with him at center. I bet in. In playoff games, if. Even if they have the options of Lively and Gafford. Yeah.
- [88:07]
Jovan Buha
I mean, Anthony Davis is a center. Like, let's make no mistake about it.
- [88:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm.
- [88:11]
Jovan Buha
I'm just, like, sharing that that that is what he's wanted. And if we're arguing that, like, they've catered, like. Because I think. I just think there's a narrative out there that they've completely catered to LeBron and AD's wishes and whatever they want. And I. I'm just pushing back a little bit against that because I think there's been some very clear things that they've wanted that they've not gotten that. That maybe in other situations they would get. But 80 is.
- [88:32]
Ryan Rosillo
By the way, Johan, I'm glad that you gave us that timeline, because the examples that you're using are. Are really easy to forget, especially if you want to push the idea that they've only gotten what they've wanted. I guess in the post Donchic trade stuff that I don't really have a ton of time for is that all of a sudden it's. It's like, this doesn't work anymore. When it's like, dude, you've three things in seven months that I can point to that are fairly in Clutch's favor, and it says not. This trade has nothing to do with the relationship, is my point.
- [89:05]
Jovan Buha
Yeah.
- [89:06]
Ryan Rosillo
And.
- [89:06]
Jovan Buha
And to kind of. To your point, they've all. I mean, they have given them, like, whatever contracts they wanted in terms of contract structure.
- [89:11]
Ryan Rosillo
So that.
- [89:11]
Jovan Buha
That's certainly an argument, you know, against that as well. But in terms of ad, I think the one thing that. That has been true, and I. I think the. The one thing that he feels is like. I think he likes when playing next to another big and having that guy be the primary center defender, and then he can roam defensively. And I think going back to title year, when you had javale or Dwight on Nikola Jokic or you know, whatever other big man they were running into, AD liked being the roamer who could, you know, be the low man, be helping rotating out the shooters and just kind of Manning, you know, quarterbacking the defense in that sense. So I think for, for him, like one, you know, constant thing that the teams try to do against the Lakers when he's at the 5 is you just try to get him out of the paint. And, and Steve Kerr has talked about like Golden State's entire offense when they play the Lakers is trying to find and come up with ways to get Anthony Davis away from the rim and they feel like if they can get 80 out of the away from the rim, it's going to be a layup line or an offensive rebound line or party, whatever. So I think that's like that's 280s, I guess argument. I, I, I see the value in that. And the Lakers like even the last couple years have tended to play better when they played bigger lineups. Not even necessarily another center out there, but like when they play their big wings and they're going like LeBron a, a big guy, six eight or six, nine and above nad those lineups have played really well. It's just been because the, the roster has been so kind of structured towards guards and perimeter guys that they typically play these like three guard lineups that, that haven't been as good defensively. So I get where AD's coming from, but ultimately he's a 5 and I think Dallas is going to figure out with their roster like him closing at the five is the best option.
- [91:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, when I was running through those minutes too, javale didn't play. But his numbers as far as like his playoff log, even for that year when they won it because like you could point to like, well, AD played more because Java wasn't available and they were only playing Dwight and all this different stuff. But like Java was declining minutes as those playoffs kept going the entire time, whether it was health or just to fit and all that stuff. So I think what they'll do is AD will play, he'll be next to a center, everybody's going to be all smiles. He's going to talk about how awesome the whole thing is and then I can't wait to see him in the playoffs when it's like, all right, here's the six minutes to go group. Like we need more, like we need more spacing and we're good enough defensively with just AD depending on this Matchup. But look, Dallas with, with two guys and AD against Joker and, and then playing off of Gordon because Gordon doesn't provide any spacing. Kind of like what we saw with the Cat and Rudy Dynamic with Minnesota. Like there's, there's something there for Dallas, but I, I have to finish with la just because you know, that's perspective that you're giving us here on this. What do you think of this team now for this year?
- [91:59]
Jovan Buha
I think it, it depends on what they do in the, the next three days here because if they stand pat with the current roster as you just alluded to earlier, like, I mean Jackson Hayes is a starting center. I think he's more of a fringe rotation player rather than a, a starting rotation player. So, so that's. And again it's, I think it's going to be more like the Knicks game where they, they go with like Dorian Finney Smith at the five or, or Jared Vanderbilt at the five and they play these wing heavy lineups And I know J.J. redick likes that, he likes the more modern kind of small ball type lineups but I, I think this group just has too many holes defensively. Like I think Max Christie's been an afterthought in this trade, but he had kind of become the Lakers fourth best player over the last like month and a half. He was, they were 16 and 8 with him in the starting lineup. He was shooting 40 on threes, averaging between like 11 and 12 points a game. So like Max Christie had kind of become a reliable two way wing for them and I think lose it. Like they lost two starters and they really added one. And of course Luca is better than AD and again you make the trade 10 out of 10 times. But like from a short term perspective, this group took a step back defensively and took a major step back in the interior. Like they already needed a second center. Now they don't really. Like there might be two centers honestly.
- [93:15]
Kyle Wargon
So.
- [93:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Right.
- [93:16]
Jovan Buha
I think depending on what they do in the next three days, I've heard that they're trying to be like the one big thing here is they've shifted from. There was this notion of like the LeBron 80 timeline of you have maybe 18 months to try and maximize this window. They've shifted away from that and now they're on the LUCA timeline. So I think any move they make, if they invest that 2031 first round pick or a pick swap or even any of the younger talent, it's going to be about getting a guy who can fit now and longer term with Luka. So I don't think they're going to make some type of win now move in terms of like here's a first round pick for a 30 year old center, a 33 year old. Like I think they're looking at guys in their late 20s and younger and guys who can play with Luka longer term. So if they do make a bigger move here, I think it'll be for a younger player.
- [94:06]
Will Kane
But.
- [94:06]
Jovan Buha
But I would temper expectations a bit and probably look at maybe them trying to find like a bargain center and then kind of just going forward and seeing what you can do with this group. But they're certainly like defensively they're relying on Jared Vanderbilt, Dorian, Finney Smith and Gabe Vincent. I like each of those guys individually. But to have those be your top three defenders, I think there's a clear limitation there. And then size wise, specifically at the center spot, it's. It's problematic.
- [94:33]
Ryan Rosillo
The only reason he was even available is clearly Dallas, Nico Harrison. They had to have a, under, I would say like not understood level of disdain for Luca's entire thing, whether it was a conditioning injury, projections, personality, like look, it got pretty rough on the court at times. I can't imagine factoring in how often he complains. There'd be a reason why you don't want to give a guy a five year extension when he's, you know, arguably at best the second best player in the world. But is there anything that you've uncovered and it's early here where like the Lakers, because everybody does this, like there's all these Pelicans players where other teams would be like, if I can just get that guy into our system and their track record just, you know, all these different things where whether it's a wake up call to Luke himself and all the motivation he needs, or I think there's another part of it where it's like maybe it just doesn't matter for this guy and you can worry about that like north of 30. But is there anything you think is interesting that you've uncovered about like the preparation of. The only reason he was available is because of some of these longer term concerns.
- [95:37]
Jovan Buha
Yeah, I mean it feels like to me this is sort of like a breakup and one side trying to get out and explain the reasons why they broke up with the other person. But it just hasn't really carried much weight in. You know, no pun intended here. Like, but like as you said, like Luca could be smoking a cigarette on the court and it's like you give that Guy, the Superbs and you f, like you figure it out later. And I, I just, I, I, I don't understand it. I mean I, I've heard similar things. Weight conditioning, work ethic, leadership attitude, mindset, like all those things have been floating out there. But I, I also think for, from the Lakers side, like they're optimistic that if there is one player that can maybe change some of those things with Luca and to your point, maybe, maybe he just is who he is and, and none of this is going to change. But like he loves LeBron. He said it in his rookie press conference like LeBron is his idol. LeBron is a guy he's looked up to. He's tried to model his game after. So learning from LeBron, athlete who's arguably taking the best care of his body in, in history, you know, invests a million dollars every summer in his body. Like that's a guy that I, I think the Lakers are optimistic. Like if Luka can learn from that example and we've seen like even Kyrie and AD for, you know, they have their quirks. What we'll say, like those guys have talked about learning from LeBron and the impact he's had on them. So I think the Lakers are optimistic that Luke is still 25, he's not even yet in his prime and if he could have a couple of years with LeBron and seeing what time he gets to the practice facility, what's like how much he's investing pre and post practice into his body in terms of all the different things he's doing. Like that can have some sort of impact on him. But even if it doesn't, you have a 25 year old generational star who has already led teams to the finals, conference finals, third in regular season, scoring all the time in terms of points per game, second in the playoffs, like, don't overthink it. This guy is going to be, could be the best player in the league as soon as, like next season, arguably. And it's just, I still can't believe that this trade happened.
- [97:48]
Ryan Rosillo
I can't either, man. Enjoy though. It's going to be a lot of fun. If you want to check out more from Jovan, you can check out his work on the Athletic again, his podcast, Buhas block. Thanks man. Thank you. You want details?
- [98:01]
Jovan Buha
Fine.
- [98:02]
Kyle Wargon
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [98:05]
Ryan Rosillo
What's up?
- [98:07]
Ceruti
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [98:10]
Ryan Rosillo
I have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all, kids, I am licking liquid.
- [98:16]
Kyle Wargon
So now you know what's possible.
- [98:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Let me tell you what's required. Voltron, man. We're back fully formed here. You've got Ceruti back from Mexico, Kyle Wargon hanging out in the shadows around the Rim. Will Kane style, perhaps. And my name's Ryan. I'm your host. It's life advice. Life advice. Rrgmail.com Summer surmising that I'm just happy to have Ceruti back. Do you have any statement?
- [98:43]
Ceruti
No, I mean, I'm, I, I listened to the pods. You were accurate in that you sent me kind of like a bigger Picture show thing. And I was like, it's like a Wednesday. I'm sitting on the beach, I'm reading the second Dune book. Like, I'll, I'll, I'll answer this when I get back. I don't really feel like diving into the work stuff, so I appreciate that. But I did miss, I did miss the show. I missed. I didn't think I was going to miss a ton. And then I got back Saturday night. I was like, let me go to the magic Lost. And I was like, God, I don't even want to deal with anything. So which night? Early. This is Saturday night.
- [99:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Your squad struggling, dude.
- [99:14]
Ceruti
Not good yet. Maybe something for a later date. But then I wake up at three in the morning to take a piss and I'm like, why did Bill release a pod with Ryan? What's going on? And I saw the trade. I was like, oh, all right. I guess I'm back. So it's good to be back.
- [99:26]
Ryan Rosillo
It's good to have you back. We saved a couple for you. We saved a couple.
- [99:31]
Ceruti
Okay.
- [99:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Because you didn't want to read these. Calling teenagers virgins. Six foot two, 30, huge ass and barrel chest. Player comp. Bruce Brown. I'm 38, from the Maryland D.C. suburbs, have two kids. I want to give feedback on a recent discussion about insulting minors. I'm a Commanders fan. Went to Philly for the NFC Championship game. Fans were tough and mean, but fun for the most part. After the game, my friend and I were walking away from the stadium in a large group of mainly Eagles fans. We started getting pushed repeatedly and pretty soon were surrounded by about 616 year olds. They were at an age a nightmare. Yeah. Where they just went through puberty. So we're pushing 5, 10 and so these guys are pushing 5, 10, had half grown in mustaches. Yeah. So they're describing a gang of 16 year olds. For the most part they weren't strong, but excited about their new pubes. Oh, the loudest of them grabbed my shirt and got nose to nose with me. I shoved them off and told him to get your virgin hands off of me.
- [100:33]
Kyle Wargon
That's great.
- [100:35]
Ryan Rosillo
And then I told his friends to get a hold of this dork virgin. This sent him into a rage, Repeatedly yelling at me that he was not a virgin. At that point, the argument is over. His friends knew it and pulled him away. Yep. I will attest that calling an aggressive 16 year old a virgin is the best thing you can possibly do.
- [100:54]
Kyle Wargon
Really nice field test there.
- [100:55]
Ryan Rosillo
That's good. It all.
- [100:57]
Kyle Wargon
It all sounds good in theory until there's six of those dirty little guys around you and you don't know what to do. I'm glad that that works.
- [101:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Six of those dirty guys.
- [101:07]
Ceruti
It's kind of the perfect scenario, actually.
- [101:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [101:09]
Ceruti
Because then you're like.
- [101:10]
Kyle Wargon
Because that's the one thing they're all very about.
- [101:12]
Ceruti
They're all front of their buddies. Oh, yeah.
- [101:15]
Kyle Wargon
One guy's been lying about it. She goes to a different school. Right. And now, now it's just out on front street.
- [101:19]
Ryan Rosillo
That's awesome.
- [101:20]
Ceruti
Like, if you call. If you call it, somebody called me a virgin. Like, you know, there was a road rage incident or something. Like, shut up, virgin. I don't even know how I'd react to it. The, like the 15, 16, like all the way up to like maybe early college. That's about the most insulting thing you could say to somebody who actually feels like they're cool.
- [101:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I think in a road rage incident you would just start dying laughing. Like you in particular. Because of. Of you.
- [101:43]
Ceruti
I get bad road rage. I don't know how I would react to that. I'm. I'm. I'm mostly calm except when I'm behind a wheel.
- [101:48]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [101:48]
Kyle Wargon
What is that? What. What the hell is that in those four doors? And it's just. You're a different guy.
- [101:52]
Jovan Buha
It's weird.
- [101:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow, you have that, Kyle.
- [101:55]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah, I mean, I've. I've caught my. Like I said, I'm not hopping out of the car, but I've, you know, like, wow, did I just yell that at that guy? What the hell was that? I would never. I would never do. I was like, all right, let's just focus back up. Get where we're going. But it's crazy. Like little inconveniences. Like rage is the word. I don't know what that's about.
- [102:12]
Ceruti
I have the least amount of patience in the car than I do in any other place.
- [102:16]
Ryan Rosillo
I know. Because you're so laid back in so Many other things too. All right, well, speaking of conflict, I lived in Wyoming my whole life. That's not the reason. I'm in my 40s. 6 foot 5, 260. Wow. I own a deli slicer and can touch the net. All right.
- [102:34]
Kyle Wargon
Whoa, slicer, dude.
- [102:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Where do you. Where do you fit?
- [102:38]
Kyle Wargon
Will it fit in the kitchen?
- [102:39]
Ceruti
Let that meat.
- [102:41]
Kyle Wargon
Just made a roast last night and I was cutting it by hand like a caveman.
- [102:44]
Ceruti
You made a roast? Nice. Got like a.
- [102:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Like a nice indeed roast.
- [102:49]
Kyle Wargon
No, I mean, like, you know, I put it. I just. I make my own roast beef now. That's.
- [102:53]
Jovan Buha
That's a.
- [102:53]
Kyle Wargon
One of the things that I do. And yeah, I just get a big roast and you know, slice it as thin as I can and you know, got a knife sharpener because it's just not. Not slicing it thin enough. So we're working on it.
- [103:04]
Ryan Rosillo
I like it. Keep us updated. On a recent ski trip of my family, we found ourselves waiting in line with a large group of people. I started helping my 8 year old daughter get a few things organized. I accidentally bumped into a guy standing nearby and knocked his gear over. Watch what you're doing, virgin. I heard from behind me. I told him I was sorry, but he could settle down with the virgin stuff. I gestured toward my daughter and told him that my daughter was proof that I've had sex at least once. He responded that she must be adopted because there was no way any woman female would let me touch her.
- [103:34]
Ceruti
Oh man.
- [103:35]
Ryan Rosillo
By this point, I was taking off my watch. Through the red mist of my rage, a glimmer of recognition shone through. Could it be. Was this guy a reference? Fellow Roso fan? I knew that I had to test the theory with a reference and only a true Rosillo fan would understand. That's big talk coming from a guy with shamit face. I said to him with a knowing look in my eye. The instantaneous connection we had in that moment as Raillo fans melted away any hostility between us. He said we were cool, we could keep it moving. I said it was a simple misunderstanding. We should just charge it to the game. We had a laugh and parted in good terms. Thank you for thank you Priscilla show. You're solving problems, helping dudes find common ground. I don't think that's necess. I hope it's real. The the deli slicer and the charger to the game thing makes me think it might not be.
- [104:19]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah.
- [104:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, let's do two quick ones. Basketball comp l door 6 foot 200 pound Lou Dort with no three pointer, but I'm a menace on the defensive end and will drive through your chest. Sounds like you're terrible to play with. This might be a little touchy for you guys, but I have an interesting dilemma. For the past month or two, there's been a special needs guy that has started coming to my gym. He gets dropped off. He's typically there for an hour and a half, then waits outside to get picked up. The problem is that he spends his entire time on his iPad in the locker room. Never comes close to a dumbbell or treadmill. He looks to be in his mid to late 20s and is definitely overweight. Should I continue to do nothing or should I approach him and offer to walk the treadmill with him? Wow. What a great guy this is.
- [105:01]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [105:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Without his parents supervision, this is clearly a window for playtime for him. This isn't meant to be a God complex thing for me or anything like that. I just feel like he might need someone to give him the push rather than leave it to himself. Would you feel any compulsion to help the guy out? I probably won't end up doing anything, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts. If your suggestion is to say something to his parents. I don't really care enough to go out of my way like that. I love that this guy has a really. He's got a streak of a heart in him.
- [105:33]
Kyle Wargon
The idea of having heart is strong.
- [105:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. The concept. But ultimately he knows I really want.
- [105:43]
Kyle Wargon
To do any of that.
- [105:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Because that's like, we really want to game this out. Like, if I'm, you know, we. Full transparency on this pod. I think it's a really incredible thought. Are you willing to fuck up your routine for this? Because it's, it's be so nice if you were like, hey, buddy, I don't know why I just started the sentence that way, but I think everybody, you know, hey, buddy, you know, you want to go on the treadmill with me and you want to, you know, maybe try a couple machines with me. You know, you're. You're deciding and you know, look, man, it'd be unbelievable. Like, I'm gonna, it's just a day. I'm gonna give up my day for this guy to give him a little bit of direction. I think you could probably worry potentially about the long term things like this guy. I think I'm working out with him every day. You're coming home and your wife's like, you're gaining weight. I got a new gym partner. Yeah. I think what you're asking here is incredible, but I think anybody that is a normal gym routine person, you probably. And I don't know that it's selfish, but in a very practical way of talking about all the potential scenarios here, are you willing to sign up for something that is way more than you actually want to sign up for? Yeah.
- [107:06]
Kyle Wargon
The snitch route here is way less work. If you want something to be done right, it's way less work. I think maybe what I would do if I was going to do anything would be like, maybe meet him in the locker room, like, hey, what's up? I'm John. Whatever. Just talk to him. Don't, don't necessarily suggest that he should go do it with it. But, like, you get to know him a little bit, and then maybe one day you see his parents, you're like, hey, you know, I met John a while back, and, you know, I don't know how much you know, but, you know, it's a big iPad guy in the locker room. Just, Just wanted you to know. I don't know if there's like a, you know, there's like a training thing. You might get a pro bono session if you're, you know, if you think, you think about it or whatever. But, like, just if you think he's coming here to, to bust his ass, it's just, it's just not true. And he just might need a little push. But, like, I wouldn't do it without, without, like, meeting the guy first instead of just, like, walking past him.
- [107:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Plant the seed of fitness.
- [107:57]
Kyle Wargon
Right. So.
- [107:58]
Ceruti
Or just be a friend. Yeah, like, you could be a friend and not have him work out. Like, maybe just make him feel like a little bit more part of the community. At the gym, maybe he's intimidated because he has nobody to talk to, so he doesn't want to use peanut butter.
- [108:08]
Kyle Wargon
Shake after the, after the run. Yeah.
- [108:11]
Ceruti
Yeah. So I, I, it does. Exactly. It doesn't have to be like, you giving him a workout regimen just, like, maybe not peanut butter.
- [108:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Based on the scattering report, I was.
- [108:19]
Kyle Wargon
Just, I thought that's what he would actually get probably jazzed up about, rather than the, the fat burner one or whatever that is.
- [108:27]
Ryan Rosillo
You have grilled cheese, protein, nothing else.
- [108:32]
Ceruti
Well, I would say, too. Are we sure the parents don't fully know what's going on here? Like, maybe they just are like, hey, we got to get them out of the house for like, an hour. Like, which is. This is a good.
- [108:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Tell you what, they're probably psyched to get the break.
- [108:43]
Ceruti
Yeah. So, you know, I don't know that they'd even be blowing up his spot. Like, I'm, you know, I don't know.
- [108:49]
Kyle Wargon
There might be parents that are actually worried about him. Like, you know, he's turning into whatever version of a person he's going to be as an adult, and we want to get the weight thing under control. You know, maybe it's that. And they're like, they're really just hoping he's at least walking slowly while looking at the iPad. And maybe maybe just that would, you know, if he's like, hey, can we just get you to walk, Walk while you're doing this? Playing, you know, ninja, Fruit Ninja or whatever you're doing. Like, maybe.
- [109:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you could do that on the treadmill. That's a great call.
- [109:13]
Ceruti
That is.
- [109:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Dial up some of these apps, you just start slicing away, and, you know, you got the treadmill at a 252 8, right?
- [109:19]
Kyle Wargon
Maybe just that. Because they could just be really concerned. They're like, we got to do something. I don't know how overweight he's talking, but, you know, could totally see that being a real. They're like, all right, at least he's got this. And it turns out he doesn't have this. So it might be worth just letting them know.
- [109:33]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know.
- [109:33]
Ceruti
But again, you would notice, though. Like, you pick him up and he's got no sweat stains. His shoes aren't scuffed at all. Like, there are signs. I guess maybe they're just like, you know, yeah, whatever. Like, get him. Maybe he could make. Make a friend or socialize, and you can maybe be that friend. But, yeah, I don't know. Do you have to put him through a workout regimen?
- [109:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think what Kyle said is the right move. Hey, buddy. What's going on? What are you doing today? You know, if you ever want to go walk on the treadmill with me, let me know. It also probably wouldn't be the worst idea to ask some of the trainers. You know, some trainers are gonna be like, absolutely not. If I can't sell them three sessions. I got. You know, I got sessions to sell. There's probably somebody else. Considering that trainers are usually people that want to help people. That's something in their core. You go up to one of the friendlier trainers, be like, hey, if you notice this guy, he's just kind of, like, chilling. Maybe he is. To your point, Kyle, like to be dropped into that setting without any background, without any, like, warm up to it and just now you're. You're at the gym and he doesn't have any idea, like, how to use anything. And it's all probably like, super intimidating, but I'm sure he's just fucking pumped to be on his iPad too, for 90 minutes unsupervised. So I do think that. Yeah, but I think your original thing, like, there's probably some version of this where there's a compromise where the emailer feels like, hey, at least I did something here. Which I think is the most important lesson in all of this, is that you're thinking about it. But I also think, like, a lot of people, regular gym routine, people, like, I get in and get out to do my thing and I, I don't, like, I want to help, but I don't know how much I can help. And, you know, I'm not going to have like a new gym partner the entire time. So, yeah, I think the. Hello, how's it going? Ask about the treadmill thing. And then maybe there's a trainer that's like, oh, I didn't even realize this guy's sitting in the locker room the whole time. Yeah, absolutely. Like, I have a little window here, and then somebody else. Next thing you know, you get a team of people help me.
- [111:24]
Kyle Wargon
You're just the Wednesday guy, right?
- [111:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you're the Wednesday warm up guy. But you're going to do treadmill for 90 minutes. I do it for five and then I lift weights. Then I'll see you here in 90, buddy. Right.
- [111:34]
Kyle Wargon
I'll do my last five with you. That's perfect.
- [111:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Hope that iPad's charged. Okay.
- [111:43]
Kyle Wargon
That was a good advice. I feel like we left there with actually something. There's so many. We leave and I'm like, wow, that was ten minutes of nothing, huh? Yeah, that was good.
- [111:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Ten minutes.
- [111:51]
Kyle Wargon
Actionable stuff there.
- [111:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Longtime listener. Going back to Tirico and Van Pelt and Marcillo replaced Tirico. And I learned to appreciate the dulcet tones of Ryan's voice while driving around in my service rig. 48 years old, no gym stats. As I am self employed in an extremely physical job repairing broken swimming pools in the Sacramento region. And going to the gym would feel like torture. Yep. Look, man, you know, anything that has anything to do with concrete stone, you know, you guys are, that is, you're.
- [112:20]
Kyle Wargon
In the gym every day, man.
- [112:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, super sets. How long did you work out today? Eight hours. All right. Basketball comp. The guy or female who wipes the floor after one of the Sacramento Kings hits the deck, light the beam. All right. Big Sacramento guy. The names have been changed so far away. The problem stems from my neighbor four houses away here in an older part of Sacramento. Tyler and Kristen were an unmarried middle aged couple living down the road. Tyler's a very nice guy who does not work due to inheriting Silicon Valley money from his father years ago. I want Kyle. I would love that would be if.
- [112:55]
Kyle Wargon
You were just find out I actually am related to Michael Crichton. How about that?
- [112:59]
Ryan Rosillo
We just do that fully blown. Younger rich. Kyle would be like one of my favorite characters characters ever. But all right. So this guy's got that kind of cash. Inherited from the father years ago. Owns a house in the Bay Area but currently rents it out as he's lived with Kristen here in Sacramento. Kristen works from home in a lucrative commercial real estate job. She generally sucks and some of the neighbors have a difficult relationship with her as a result. I like this, straight to the point. Kind of like the first take thing Will Kane was saying. Just take start at that, start at the conflict. I've always got along with her due to my ability to get along with most. It's a gift. Yeah. I think people oddly enough like the rough edge construction home services that kind of like you've interacted with so many different people that you probably, you probably learned a skill despite people thinking like you might not get along with everybody because of. Sometimes I feel like laborers get typecast as difficult people and it's like in reality they probably are more conditioned to deal with so many different personalities because of their background. Eight months ago, Tyler and Kristen took an extended vacation. If you wanted a mini rant on the laborer personality. Eight months ago, Tyler and Kristin took an extended vacation in Colorado. As they are outdoorsy types and the terrain around the region was enticing to them. During this vacation they employed my 12 year old daughter to take care of their two socially awkward cats. Interesting description. Do you guys know a lot of non socially awkward cats?
- [114:33]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah, they're out there. I know they exist. I just don't know how you get one like that. Like I don't know how you win the cat lottery to be fucking normal. I don't know how it works.
- [114:44]
Ryan Rosillo
I have a cat.
- [114:45]
Ceruti
There's some days I don't even see it.
- [114:47]
Ryan Rosillo
You do have a cat. I forgot about that.
- [114:48]
Ceruti
Yeah, when I tell people I forget that I have it half the time. He's pretty low maintenance.
- [114:52]
Ryan Rosillo
What's his name?
- [114:53]
Ceruti
Ollie.
- [114:54]
Kyle Wargon
That's a good cat.
- [114:55]
Ryan Rosillo
There's a skateboarding Good dog name too. Oliver North.
- [114:57]
Ceruti
It was just. We got it. That's. That was his name. We didn't change it. He's pretty chill. He just kind of hangs out. I don't. Again, there are days where I just don't see him. As long as you feed him water all that good, he's. He's fine. Not a cat.
- [115:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that's the part about cat. Yeah. Not a cat guy. But there is something to be said of an animal that's like, I don't need you right now. I'm surprised. People are probably surprised I don't have a cat.
- [115:20]
Ceruti
I don't. I don't know about that.
- [115:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I don't think you have to worry about that anytime soon. All right. Considering this couple has no children, they treated the cats as if they are children. My wife and I, along with our daughter, I had to go over to receive specific instructions on the care and maintenance of these cats while they're gone. They agreed to pay my daughter $10 per day to go over and feed, care and spend time with the cats along.
- [115:45]
Kyle Wargon
Daughter's getting hosed, first of all.
- [115:47]
Ceruti
Feels low.
- [115:47]
Jovan Buha
Yeah, check wag.
- [115:48]
Kyle Wargon
Dude, there's going to be. It's going to be 40 bucks a day.
- [115:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Come on. I think $10 is so low. We're. We're all in agreement.
- [115:55]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah, that's 90. That's 1999 money. We're talking for like a chore like that. Come on.
- [116:00]
Ceruti
It'd be one thing. Yeah, over there. And feed them, like to spend time and like play with them. That's. What are we doing?
- [116:05]
Kyle Wargon
They probably think they're doing her a favor by like, you know, they probably think very highly of the cats.
- [116:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know.
- [116:12]
Ceruti
She's a cba.
- [116:16]
Ryan Rosillo
She's a union.
- [116:17]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [116:19]
Ryan Rosillo
It's like, this is ridiculous. Let me see here. All right, so they agreed to pay my daughter $10 a day. Feed, care, spend time along with picking up the mail and packages. Upon returning from Colorado, the couple decided to start looking for homes as they fell in love with the area. Ultimately, Kristen bought a home that needed some work and began to make plans. The problem started when Kristen started fucking the electrician she hired and thus ending relationship with Tyler. Tyler returned to Sacramento brokenhearted, but made the best of it. He's continued to live in the house he shared with Kristen, who is actually the owner because his house is currently rented in a long term lease. Tyler now travels extensively and is frequently gone. Which leaves us to the cats. You could do worse than banging an Electrician, though I've got like two plugs that don't work. My daughter, and thus my wife and I are now the main caregivers to the cats. Tyler continues to pay my daughter whenever he is gone and we dutifully send her over once a day to feed and give attention to the cats, along with cleaning the litter boxes and doing the occasional laundry. As the cats are sometimes incontinent. Recently Krista decided to show up at the home. We were excited to finally get the cats out of our lives. Except she didn't take them back to Colorado with her. My question is, what do I do? We are generally tired of taking care of these cats, but our daughter has amassed a small fortune for a 12 year old. Literally over a thousand dollars so far in cash payments. Do we tell Tyler to figure something out? While he's truly a good and decent man, he does not care about the cats because they end the house are a reminder of his broken relationship. Do we continue to let him help fund my daughter's college fund in middle school lifestyle? I love middle school lifestyle. Fruit roll ups on me.
- [117:59]
Kyle Wargon
Pogs.
- [118:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Damn, girl.
- [118:01]
Ceruti
Who wants hot lunch? Yeah.
- [118:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Like what is that, 10 bands? Yep, all tens. Do we try to contact Kristen and tell her to deal with the goddamn cats? Do we start stealing some of the better artwork and decor from the house out of spite? I'm joking. But they do have some sick antique stadium seats in the house that I would gladly take. Any advice would be appreciated. Shout out to Steve, Kyle and Oregon. Go Ducks. Damn. Yeah, look, I think we've all agreed right now collectively on your behalf, we've been your own union here. You're going to go, hey, dude, this cat thing kind of annoying. 50 bucks a day. So is that then worth it to your daughter? Can you stomach it? $10 a day is nothing. You're right. That's 90s wages. That sounds like something. When I would go over and like check on some dude's house when I was in high school, I'm like, okay, we pay you $10 a day, Buster. I think you raise the price or he gets, you know, he's. Look, when dudes are this devastated, they don't care about this stuff. This is the first thing they don't care about. And again, to your point, they're not even his cats. But you know what? When I got dumped, the bank didn't stop sending me a mortgage statement. So like, deal with your shit. And I think you go to them and say, this is brutal. She doesn't want to be there every day. It's turning into like a care thing. I understand you're going through a ton of stuff, but, like, you need to come up with a solution that has something to like and then, you know, whatever. Everything's got a price. And if he feels like he's being shook down at a time of despair, fuck it, man. Welcome to the world. To be like, in 10 bucks is just low. Like, 10 bucks is fine. It was kind of like a neighborhood, like, daughter down the street thing, but it's turned into way more work. We're doing laundry. No one cares for the cats anymore. So, like, maybe there's a number. Maybe there's a number and he'll understand. If he inherited all this money, his dad was a wheeler dealer putting on Trump YouTube videos. Be like, one day, son. So, yeah, you got to. You've got to get a bit aggressive with him to shake him out of his funk, because he will continue to do this day after day after day because this. Right. Because this is the least of his problems right now is this cat deal. And you are just a simple solution to it as he tries to work his way towards wherever the next chapter of his life takes him.
- [120:29]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah, I mean, you could. Even if. If it's not about the money and you're just like, listen, a thousand dollars. That's impressive.
- [120:35]
Ryan Rosillo
You. You've.
- [120:36]
Jovan Buha
This was a cool.
- [120:37]
Kyle Wargon
You know, remember that summer you made a thousand dollars or however long it's been, like, cool. But you could just be like, hey, you know, my daughter's starting field hockey. Or, hey, she just got elected student government. Like, she's got other stuff going on. So I think, you know, I think.
- [120:51]
Ceruti
She'S had a bankroll her campaign, too.
- [120:53]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah. Like, I think we should start thinking about maybe alternatives, just putting it out there. Like, there's a thing coming up in her life that might make this a little bit more difficult one day. I just wanted to give you a heads up, you know, I don't think this is going to work so much anymore. So, you know, maybe on the weekends or something. But, you know, I think by and large, we're going to have to find a new schedule or you got to find a new way to do that.
- [121:13]
Ryan Rosillo
This.
- [121:13]
Kyle Wargon
So you just. I think you just got something coming up that's going to make this more difficult, and that's without. That's not. You digging. He might be like, all right, what about $25? Or he might be like, okay, yeah, sure, I'll. I'll get that.
- [121:24]
Ceruti
It's 25 bucks. Like, maybe he's interested. I don't know. Every day just to do that. It depends on what? Yeah, it depends what the time is. I mean, the, the good thing for you is. Yeah, I think what Kyle said is correct. Like, that's an easy excuse. Just, hey, she's busy, man. Like, she can't do this anymore. What's the guy got to do? And it's not like there aren't viable replacements. You mentioned there are multiple apps where you could just find somebody to do this.
- [121:42]
Kyle Wargon
You never have to speak to anyone.
- [121:44]
Ceruti
Want to do this. Yeah.
- [121:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Who?
- [121:45]
Ceruti
So I don't, I don't, I don't think there's any issue in you just being like, hey, this can't be a long term thing. Even, even. No matter what the price is. Like, I don't know what they're charging on like Wag or Rover or whatever for this. Maybe it's way more expensive and he doesn't want to do that.
- [121:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, it is.
- [121:58]
Ceruti
And he, and maybe he thinks he's taking advantage of. He probably is of, of the situation. But hey, man, that's his thing to figure out. I think you just say, hey, she's, she's, she's got friends, she's got a life, she's getting older. Like, she can't just be your personal cat person.
- [122:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm looking it up here right now.
- [122:12]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah, WAG is, Wag is serious.
- [122:14]
Ryan Rosillo
It's pet sitting. Prices on Wag vary by location, number of pets, the type of pet. For example, pet sitting typically cost 50 to 110 per night. So look, this guy, this guy understands tech. Look at his dad. Start pointing out some prices. You can give him the low end because it's not.
- [122:32]
Kyle Wargon
Yeah, but with dogs it's a little different. Like, you know, we did it for rabbits and, you know, you just got to kind of get how much does that cost?
- [122:38]
Ceruti
Yeah.
- [122:38]
Kyle Wargon
Not great.
- [122:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Rabbit should be more. Right. Just because it sucks.
- [122:42]
Kyle Wargon
It sucks. But yeah, I think it was like a dog's fun.
- [122:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [122:47]
Kyle Wargon
Like, we didn't either. You can, you can ask them to come in and spend time. You can come, ask them to just come in and put new food in. And then we just kind of did the bare minimum, you know. You know, with rabbits, it's like taking your 2 year old at Disney World. They're not going to remember anyway, so just, just, yeah, put the water in and, you know, whatever. Make sure the window's open, but you.
- [123:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Find the receipt and it shows that your wife is like, will you read Alice in Wonderland to the rabbits.
- [123:11]
Kyle Wargon
She has, she has an insane laminated instruction thing that she leaves outside so the person can read all the things. And it's just like. And this one is a little more nice than that one. And this one is a little shy. And it's like no one, they're there to, you know, refill the water bowls.
- [123:28]
Jovan Buha
Come on, survive.
- [123:30]
Ceruti
Literally just survive.
- [123:31]
Kyle Wargon
But yeah, if you're, if you're not asking them to spend time with them, like there's different kinds of experiences. I gu. And you know, the bottom rung is, is, you know, if it's just open the door, feed them, lock the door, that's like 30 bucks. And then, you know, you expect a tip like with any of these, these things. So It'd be like 40 bucks a day. And you know, we haven't come every other day. Maybe you come every other day. I mean, the cats really even need somebody every day of the week? I don't think so.
- [123:54]
Ryan Rosillo
10 is low. You're getting host daughters, getting hosed.
- [123:56]
Kyle Wargon
Totally.
- [123:57]
Ryan Rosillo
And you were trying to be nice. It was convenient. Something for the kid to do. Activity, saving money, learning about responsibilities. All those things. Triple it. At least.
- [124:06]
Kyle Wargon
Invested in deep seek.
- [124:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Just kidding.
- [124:11]
Kyle Wargon
Listen to a lot of New York Times pods lately.
- [124:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Good for you. I like that. Well rounded. Thanks. Appreciate it. All right, that'll do it for us today. Thanks to Wargon, thanks to Kyle, and a big welcome back to Ceruti. Normal schedule, I guess this week we're just going Monday, Wednesday, Friday and then I'm not doing trade with Bill because they're doing a special show.
- [124:33]
Ceruti
We'll do it in la.
- [124:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. All right, so I'll, I'll do my trade recap stuff on Friday, which already started obviously with the huge news this weekend. And then the Dear and Fox spurs deal late on Sunday night. So check out our YouTube page and as always, subscribe to Reiner solo podcast. Run your spot. Must be 21 and older. Present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.