← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
NFL Draft Takeaways With Booger McFarland. Plus, Jimmy Butler’s Big Game 4 and ‘Warfare’ Codirector Ray Mendoza.
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
You're listening to the Ryan Rosilla podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app, because now you can get the latest updates and follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen or Apple Watch. No login required, just head to your My Bets page to turn it on and if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older in President Select States Gambling Prop. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com loaded podcast for you we're gonna really break down the warriors in Houston. Bunch of stuff there. Not spend a ton of time on Cleveland's historic sweep the Miami Heat. We got Booker McFarland talking draft, talking 100 men against a gorilla. Somehow that worked its way in, maybe even a little golf. But we'll do a lot of Draft as well. And Warfare. One of my favorite movies I've seen in the theater in years. It's still out. Now Ray Mendoza, the man behind the story who wrote and helped direct this movie, is going to talk about his background in the military and what led to getting something made in Hollywood and life advice. This episode is brought to you by the Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card. This is an ad for the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game with your mom or grabbing a coffee with your dog, earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases made with it. Say it with me, the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more@wells fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply two games last night in the association and we're not going to spend very much time on Cleveland dismantling the Heat, by the way, in these four games. I mean, just so impressive from the Cavs not even playing Garland in two of these games. I mean, I could sit here and do some sort of obit on Miami, but it's funny, when you watch Miami and Atlanta play in that game towards the end of the season, like, this is a really good game. That was a fun, entertaining game, and it was kind of like going to junior high wrestling, like these guys are pretty good. And then it's like, okay, now you're going to play a really good team. And it was a disastrous series for the Heat. So I don't know what it means. I mean, I guess if I were doing local Miami stuff I could get really bad out of shape about it. But it's not like any of us thought they were actually played with Cleveland in the series. It's just the historical part of it. In the four game sweep, Cavs outscore the Heat by 122 points, the largest margin of victory in a four game sweep in NBA history. And it was that ugly. So we could talk about what is bam actually or what is here. I just don't even think honestly all of us are going to forget how bad this series was. We'll forget about it pretty quickly and then maybe it'll be mentioned at the start of next season. 25, 26 and then we'll forget about it again. So it's an ass kicking but you know, if it goes to six games or they they got one extra or one of the losses was closer, does it really. It's just embarrassing. It'll be the kind of embarrassment though you're going to be able to get over as a fan base because most everybody nationally is going to forget about this. What I won't forget about is Jimmy Butler last night. That was all time stuff from him coming off this pelvic contusion injury where you could clearly tell he was hur. So I'm going to get to Butler at the end as I run through some of the stuff from last night's game. So 132 start for Golden State really quickly. Houston turnovers. I'll admit watching it I was thinking like is Golden State just going to run away with this one? It's Houston just not up for the moment. This younger team despite Van Vliet's playoff resume. Brooks being through his own battles, but needing a lot from Shengoon and Amen Thompson. Jalen Green who was terrific in game two, but then basically hitter. I mean the variance on his games is alarming. So maybe we'll spend a little time on Jalen Green, but probably not a ton. So the point is, is that it's a bad start for Houston, but they righted the ship. Especially if you think of the talent level between two teams. This is in Miami and Cleveland here. I think the talent level is, is very comparable here. But you're just wondering if Golden State being a little bit more battle tested was what we're seeing beginning and it wasn't the case because then Golden State goes through a 5 for 25 stretch. Adams checked in at 550 in the first quarter. Golden State was up 16 11. He checked out at the very end of the first quarter. It was 28 24. And it was a 2826 first quarter score in favor of Golden State. Houston's offense, which has been the second worst of all of the 16 playoff teams, only ahead of Memphis, is also the worst shooting offense in the playoffs. Still, even after last night's game, they outscored Golden State 3122 in that second quarter. The defense of Houston is so impressive at times just because of these dudes they have everywhere. And look Van Vliet, if you think you're going to hunt him and it's going to work, he's stout. The deflections numbers for him throughout his career are always like, you have to look at him again like, God damn, that guy's on it. Brooks is somebody you don't necessarily want to switch into Shingoon. You probably would like to try to attack, but you could see especially if they went with the Adams lineup, it's like even if you think you get some kind of angle here, Adams is just big enough. And this whole Adams story's incredible because when he first started getting regular rotation minutes with Houston, I was like, I don't know man, how are you going to play this guy in the playoffs? And everybody's playing off of him this much. Well, he's impacting these games in a really big way. And it's a credit to Houston for experimenting with this, staying with it. I thought there were some early games where I maybe didn't understand the point and it's just getting him ramped up, getting him back out there and he's had a real big impact. Which then led to a later Adams decision for Eme Udoka, what he wanted to do. So Houston much better in the second quarter. The on ball defense again I think is worth mentioning just because even if Golden State scoring. Pajemski had a big night and Butler had some stuff and Curry was, he just had a. I mean he was bad last night. The on the ball defense by Houston makes the ball handlers for Golden State get stuck at times in ways that you just, you don't want to get stuck. And you would think NBA players like, well, why would you get stuck over there? How come you let yourself get into this situation? Or why'd you pick up the dribble There. It's all a credit to what the Rockets do on the ball and. And these guys are just on it, which we knew. So the offense works for him as well in that second quarter. And then Curry on some of these turnovers. He had three, three just bad turnovers in about a minute of game time to close out the first half. So Houston has all the momentum now. Start of the second half, Golden State out of the gates, getting buckets. They're up 68, 58. Adams checks back in at 7, 21. Leaves with 19 seconds left of the third quarter. The score is 80 a piece. So the plus minus stuff for Adams, even if it's not always pretty, at one point I thought Houston was better off when they went with the Jabari Shingoon Adams lineup. Like, have somebody be a driver. And even if they miss at the rim, you're probably going to win on the rebounding margin. So that might be one of your best plays. But Van Vliet was terrific. Finally got going from three eight to 12 last night. 25 points. That's eight to 12 on threes. He was six to 29 from three in the first three games. And then with Draymond having the five fouls, we'll get to Draymond here in a second. Shingoon, like when I wrote it down, it's like, hey, this guy's unstoppable right now. The shooting splits do not present the case of somebody being unstoppable. He was 12, 28 last night, but he was 1 and 6 in the first quarter. So that's 11 and 22 the rest of the way. Probably too many misses in the fourth quarter. I'm going to go through those fourth quarter shot attempts, but there were two plays that I thought were really special from him where, you know, at one point when Shingoon was missing everything, you start projecting out like, okay, what is Shingoon like long term? Because Sacramento, I give them credit and I don't think they should have moved on from the general manager because I do think that they've done a better job than they've been given credit for. But Sabonis is great as he is and stockpiling the assist and having an all star vote every year and me wondering like, like, look at those numbers, you know, and then you start doing all NBA and you're like, look at those numbers. And then you see certain matchups. It just doesn't work. Because if you're a big who is not giving you any rim protection and can't stretch the Floor, then what do you have? And Shingoon, when it's bad, is a guy who provides zero rim protection and can't stretch the floor. But when it's good, especially when Draymond's out because of his foul trouble, you know you can run your offense through him. His passing is terrific. I thought maybe I was giving him too much credit for how many good looks and how many good situations he was getting himself into because there were probably too many misses in the fourth quarter to write down that he was unstoppable. But he was such a mainstay of the offense as they were battling this thing out that I still felt good about Shingoon in the down moments. I'm like, man, what is going on with him? So I know the shooting split overall 12 of 28, that's not exactly going to get you any all NBA votes, but I'm just going to give him more credit then maybe the 12 of 28 would show you the next day in the box score. But yeah, two plays, he had one play where he got Gary Payton into a switch at the three point line and he backed him all the way down. And then Moody has a men Thompson in the corner and he doesn't help off of a men. And it happened again with Butler later on, same deal. Amen. In the corner. So I don't know if they were worried about a man on some kind of drive really. If I looked at the plays again this morning and I think you have to crash down on Shingoon and if he kicks it out to amend, then you'll deal with whatever that is. But especially with the size advantage that Shingoon had in some of these switches. You know he was trying to just get post to retire at one point because Quinton post, although having a nice night making some shots, just, just isn't going to hold up right now defensively. So Draymond comes back in with five fouls at 751. Golden State's down 9,190 and Shingon had one make from the time that Draymond came back in and that was on an offensive rebound. So once and you go through the misses here and they weren't all on Draymond because there were some other switches there. It's just the fourth quarter stuff for Shingon. I think out of the nine shots, eight of them or I think it was 10 shots, there was only one that wasn't great and that was the game winning attempt that we'll get to a little bit later. So we Went through some of the defensive stuff that I didn't love from Golden State against him and just helping out. The game winner that he tried against Draymond was 10ft out. It's a one handed push kind of floater. It's a really tough shot to begin with, but you just knew that Draymond was going to hold up and be better positioned. And at that point, he's not worrying about the six foul because that's kind of the game. Now on Draymond, we could ask, why was he even in the game? He already gotten a technical earlier. I think there's a lot of. I love the rough stuff. I'm going to sound a little critical here, but I think some of the rough stuff is just unnecessary. I think it's just guys deciding like, oh, this is the playoffs. I'm supposed to get pissed off. I'm supposed to grab somebody. I know everybody's sick of each other after playing multiple games against the same team, but I think some of it just becomes like, I'm just going to show how tough I am and I'm going to be in the mix and I'm going to do some of this dumb shit. Steph got a technical because he taunted Dylan Brooks for getting his second foul, for knocking him down after a man had been crushed by Draymond on a screen. I don't really know if that was dirty or not. And then it turns into this whole thing. So Draymond already has a technical from this. So then he gets stripped by Tari Eason. He's pissed, grabs Tari Eason, then his legs swing over and hit the back of Tar Eason's head. We can. It's a really easy thing to say. It wasn't deliberate. I never know with Draymond. Then Draymond grabs his jersey while T's over him. And then actually this was kind of lost. I thought on the broadcast he went to kick Tari between the legs, but he misses. Or he actually somehow finds some composure where it's like, maybe I shouldn't be kicking dudes in the legs. The last time I did this, we blew a 31 lead, so they gave him a flagrant. And it was funny too, because later on, Draymond's lined up at the free throw line and he was telling Tari, like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to kick you in the back of the head. Which means that Draymond clearly has more respect for Tari than he would other players because he would go out of his way. And then a man came over and thought Draymond was getting into it. And so as Draymond was trying to apologize to a player, which felt rare, he still found a way to get pissed at somebody else because Amend Thompson, I think, was just third man in, didn't know what they were talking about. He shoves him, then yells at the refs. And, like, it was just kind of chaotic the whole time. I think because he had the first technical, they weren't going to give him a second technical and because they gave him the flagrant, whatever. But, you know, this is a theme here with Draymond, not just because of some of the playoff stuff, but his fouling at times has been atrocious in the worst possible time. If you go to the playing game against Memphis. A minute to go. Golden State's up 117, 111. Memphis is inbounding the basketball, and he fouls Bane on the inbounds. It was a terrible gamble, and it was his sixth foul. And Memphis shoots two free throws with no time coming off of the clock. That game's still in the balance. Last regular season game against the Clippers, Draymond's got Kawhi. There's 17 1/2 seconds left on the game clock, but 9 seconds left on the shot clock. Kawhi gets him going to his left a bit, and Draymond fouls him. And at the time, they were like, oh, that was smart. Because it's not free throws. It's like, no, it isn't, because there was three seconds left on the shot clock. The differential was eight and a half seconds. So you were forcing Kawhi into a really tough shot, and then you bail him out of the possession. Shot clock resets. They're going to close with the last shot. So it was actually the way they played it out defensively. He would have been better off just letting him shoot because he had quiet a disadvantage and fouled him. So the fouling stuff for Draymond needs to tighten up if this team is going to go far, because there's also a moment as I'm watching last night's game as Golden State struggling. Curry's just everything about the defensive priority, and he's not being able to fight his way through it. Butler, Pajemski, all these other things, I'm watching that team going like, hey, as much as I like these guys, it's been a really good story. And it looks like they're going to close out Houston here up 3 1. I do think these teams are fairly Even do you watch Golden State through these four games and go, yeah, they can beat Oklahoma City. I mean, I don't know if too many people are trying to sell you on that out there, but, man, that seems impossible for Golden State to go through some of these offensive stretches to be able to keep pace with a team like the Thunder. All right, Jimmy Butler. Now, look, I'll always be skeptical of the guy that has the baggage, the bullshit part of it, and Butler has a lot of it. You could talk me into a couple stops where I would take Jimmy's side. There's a couple other stops. I'm like, you know what? This is a dude who can turn it on and off based on his own happiness and essentially the financial commitment that he seems or would deem worthy of what a team should be doing for him. And that's not necessarily a guy I would want in my foxhole. Right. Dunleavy, though, to his credit, Anthony Slater shared this with us when we talked about them acquiring Butler. He was like, look, sure all of those things are on the table when you're discussing Butler. I don't know that it was like 100% approval on the Golden State side of, like, let's get this guy in here. Butler didn't even want to go there until it was his only option to go there, and they gave him the extra year on the contract for a massive number. But Dunleavy, I think, kind of nailed it. He's like, fine, okay. You know, and I'm paraphrasing here a bit of what Slater had told us, but what are we really disrupting? This team got off to a great start. It was depth, it was defense. The offense is falling apart. It's Steph running around, and nobody else can be counted on. Every other night is the number two. So if we bring Butler in, like, are we actually derailing something? That's really awesome. No, you're not. So let's go for it. Let's give it a shot. Because all of it's irrelevant, at least right now. The Butler part of it. Towards the end, when his contract is expiring and him feeling unwanted, all that stuff, it's probably going to happen again. Maybe Golden State finds a way through it. But again, all of it is irrelevant because of who this dude is in the playoff games. His effort, his intensity. He takes three shots in the first half. Again, that eliminates some of the free throw attempts as the field goal attempt is not tracked. He was 4, 6 in the fourth quarter. He hits the three free throws when it was 104. 104. Dylan Brooks putting his hand into his hip and just an awful foul. Want to talk about bad foul decisions by players? That was a truck. Like, let Butler take the three. He's not necessarily great at it. He's in the corner. You can't give him the three free throws because he's great at the free throw line on top of everything else. And then as Shingoon goes up for the game winner, Butler grabs the biggest rebound of the game. And I love the replay of this rebound because Butler is just on it. He's sizing it all up and he's got a clear landing. Granted, the ball's going to go his way and he's able to grab the board and step up offensively in a night where Curry did not have it. So, look, we could talk about. There's a lot of, like, different things in here. The Adams substitution patterns. Ime taking Adams out when they were going to start hacking him, putting him at the free throw line, it's easy to say, hey, they should just leave him in there. But if he's at the free throw line, missing a million free throws, I think social media is like, I can't believe you kept him in there. I think he had them on the floor when they needed a three at the end. That's not great. That seems like just a mistake and not staying on top of your substitution patterns. It does feel like the Adam Shingoon Jabari lineup is probably their best bet. Even though Amend Thompson has had moments early in the series. I'm thinking, is there enough polish there? He was so good on some of those drives. He had three plays. There was one left side bank shot. I can't even believe he took it at the angle he was at. He had another drive from the top where I thought, oh, this is the problem with Quinton post. There's just no rim protection. It wasn't even post fall. It was a spectacular athletic move where Amen looked like he was going to release the layup in front of him and then somehow still was gliding through the air and finished behind post. Then post had to be like, what the hell just happened to me? And then there was a side Euro step against Draymond, who he basically froze Draymond as a defender because Draymond's like, what the hell is actually happening right now? And. And Amen hits that one from the left side. So I don't know if it's Van Vliet, Amen from perimeter defense. And then those three bigs because it feels like you only have one really true ball creator you can trust. But Amend showed some things last night that maybe Eme will feel better about, because the problem is once again, Jaylen Green. And we can have this story about how royal ivy in him manifest the idea that he's a top five shooting guard. It's a really cool story and anecdote to share during the broadcast after he has 38 points. But like, there's too many games like last night and you can tell IME just wants to pull the plug on it because he's just not getting enough from him. So look, the last point that I would make about Butler is a good reminder of, you know, me sitting here talking about these players, right, and the guys that piss me off at times. And not because of makes or misses, but because of, you know, I do think at times I've looked at the lack of commitment to a team and wondering if guys are about the right things or the wrong things. And you guys already know you've heard me talk about a lot of these players and Butler certainly, I think of his own doing falls into that category. But I remember a year ago Bill and I were doing a pod. It was like it was had to be one of the Sunday pods. We had just probably watched Clippers, Mavs and Harden was making some plays and Kyrie's out there making plays. And look, I think Westbrook at that point had ended his tenure with the Clippers. But it dawned on me as we talked about, I go, you know, for all these dudes that you just get kind of like, why would anybody want this guy, right? Why would anybody bring that guy? And why would you want that in your locker room? You know, like, yeah, because they can get buckets that other guys can't. Like, that's why. That's why there'll always be a market. There will always be a market for the bucket getter with some baggage. And Butler proved it again last night. The Ryan Rosilla podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are finally here, and if you think you know how it's all going to go down, then make those predictions pay off with FanDuel and their same game parlay profit boosts. Just build your perfect parlay, activate the boost, and lock in your bet. If it hits, that's a bigger payout for you at no extra cost. All right, let's get into it. All right, Clippers at Nuggets. Right now the line is clippers minus two total 208. Oh five. Let's stay away from a 208 total. So I was going to do Clippers Jokic score 30 points, Norm to score 10 or more points. Norm is heated up here after a slow start, but he's been over double figures every single one of these games. Yokich you feel good for 30 because they're going to need that from him. But if you still like the Clippers. So if you like clippers minus two that's plus 294. So that is our official release now if you want to avoid a side which keeps you in it the entire time and we're just rooting for YIC points and power points. How about first team basket score? Because if I throw in Jamal Murray, maybe they try to get him going, run some sort of action where they get him off the ball, get done off of him. He's currently I can see it right now. He's left side pull up bucket. So you have to figure out Denver Clippers in this one. You just need Jamal Murray to have that first sucker go in plus 705 if you're feeling a little bit more motivated. But you know the downside. You know pretty quickly where you stand pretty early in the game and that's not as much fun. So yeah, we're going to go with clippers minus two. Jokic 30 or more norm 10 or more around plus 300 right now. Three legs sound good? Well, you can score an even bigger W because FanDuel is giving you a profit boost for all of tonight's action. Don't just be a spectator this postseason. Head to FanDuel.com Ryan R Y E N to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more. Make every moment more with FanDuel. Official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt in required minimum 3 leg parlay required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by the Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card. This is an ad for the Active Cash Credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game with your mom or grabbing a coffee with your dog, earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases made with it. Say it with me. The active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com/ActiveCash Terms apply. Had a couple days since the draft, but I wanted to recap kind of everything that happened. Just talk with our good friend here, Booker McFarland, ESPN, part of the draft coverage all weekend as well. What's up, man? It's good to see you.
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Booker McFarland
What's up, bud? How we doing?
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Ryan Rosillo
I'm good, I'm good. There's a lot to get to here. Let's just start with something simple. Who's your favorite player in the first round? Who's the guy? You're like, I love that dude. I would put anything on him being a stud.
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Booker McFarland
Jalen Walker. I'm always partial to the undersized guys, the guys that don't necessarily meet the measurables, but they're really good football players. And you know, he's 6 1, 230 pounds, 40 pounds. He's kind of an undersized edge. He kind of reminds me of James Harrison. Remember that guy used to play for the Steelers? Number 92 Defensive Player of the year candidate, forever undersized edge backer that made his living, had a great career. I think Jalen Walker is a better version of that. If you have any, any, I guess, question marks about who he is, go back and watch the Texas game and watch how he dominated Texas. I think that'll tell you everything you need to know. That was my favorite pick because he didn't meet the measurables, but he dominated like he was the biggest guy in the draft.
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Ryan Rosillo
His interviews apparently were incredible too. I. We've not talked about this, but I've been on the Jalen Walker thing the entire process and I still think that Texas, that first half, what that unit did, is, is the most dominant 30 minutes of any unit. I think of college football the entire season long and they reckon, reckon NFL guys and again, it was, it was like three dudes with Georgia. I wanted to ask you a question because I don't know if it was like this for you when you were at lsu, but if you're, you know, at Ohio State, you think all the NFL talent that Michigan had on its roster last couple of years, for Michigan to have that many players go that high and if they had just had a quarterback, like what their season could have been like. When you start looking at some of the higher end talent, is it when you know you're at an NFL factory, How much is the NFL Draft process even discussed as you're, you know, trying to win games on Saturday. But knowing that a lot of the coaches either worked in the NFL already and are telling a guy like you being like, okay, you know, this is what we're doing. Here's the game plan. But here are the other things that you need to be thinking about, because we think you're a first rounder.
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Booker McFarland
So here's what happens is that, like, everybody knows where we are. We're Georgia, lsu, Ohio State, these places. So, you know, that's kind of like in your back pocket. Like the NFL is in your back pocket. Because you know what kind of place you are, you know the level of athletes you are, you know what type of competitive nature that this program exudes on a day in and day out basis. So you're trying to win a national championship, and if you get to a point where that's unattainable, I think then you go in your back pocket, you're like, okay, now I can start getting ready for the NFL. But everybody, you're like, you go to these places to win a championship, you're not going there to do anything less. It's win the sec, it's get into the playoff, it's win a national championship. And at the moment where you're Georgia and Notre Dame's got you by the short and curlies and you realize you're going to lose that game, at that point, you're like, okay, now it's time to start thinking about the NFL. But the guys who know they're going or have a chance to go, you always have that in your back pocket. It's not something that you, that, that you parade around because there are a lot of people in that same category. But you know, it's in your back pocket and at the right time, you pull it out and it's time to go to work on it.
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Ryan Rosillo
When you look at O line prospects, what's the first thing you look for?
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Booker McFarland
Movement. Football is a game of movement. You know, years ago, football was a big man's game. It was, the bigger you are, the better your chances of succeeding were. You know, guys like Makai Becton, guys like the big kid from Ohio State that went to Cleveland, his name, he was like 68350. Like, it's no longer a big man's game. I want athletes now. You have to be a certain size. But for me, like offensive linemen, if you're 300 to 315, that's big enough. Can you move? Because football is now A game of space. And it's about getting your best athletes in space. Think about the best people at each position. Trent Williams. What's made Trent Williams a great left tackle, his ability to move and block defenders on the second level. Think about some of the best guards we've seen. Think about Zach Martin. His ability to move and get up to linebackers and displace people. Think about the best quarterbacks. They're guys that can move now. So football is a game of movement now and linemen are no different. That's why Aaron Donald can play defensive tackle. I don't know if you saw that article and I think it was GQ or essence. He said he played the super bowl against Cincinnati at 260 pounds. 260. Now he can bench press 500. So he can get away with it. But my point being is you don't have to be a guy like you Russello, where your thighs are exploding out of your shorts. Like you don't have to be that guy anymore. Like all you need to do is you got to be able to move at some point. Big guy.
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Ryan Rosillo
I'm working on the wrong things.
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Booker McFarland
Yes.
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Ryan Rosillo
Who was your favorite tackle then?
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Booker McFarland
Favorite tackle. Obviously I'm biased. I've known Will Campbell since he was 18 years old, man. Like, the kid grew up 35 miles from where I grew up at. I've known him for a long time. People said he couldn't play because his arms are too short. The kid has football character. And what does that mean? That means that his competitive nature when he gets on the field is that of a player in which is not talented. So imagine the try hard guy. But now he's got supreme talent. That's what football character is like. He's going to. He's going. He's going to do his best to finish first. He's going to do his best to give everything he has on every rep. That's what football character. And he's got it. And he's got it at 6, 6 and 3. 15. So I'm partial to him. I like the kid out of Ohio State. 2. Simmons. He tore the patella. Now, full disclosure, I tore the same patella. It's about a year before you get back and I know Kansas City took him and he took a flyer at the end of the first round. I don't know if he's going to be ready by training camp. But by all accounts, his movement is that of the best tackle in the draft. But it's tough to take a guy that high coming off of Torn Patel and you hadn't seen him work out or seen him move.
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Ryan Rosillo
This edge class was loaded. Thinking about how close you are to the college game because you cover it all season long was there. I don't want to put you in a spot to be like dogging somebody but you know, at the same time we're talking draft. Was there somebody that went in the first round, One of the edge guys that you don't think matches up to maybe the first round projections?
- [29:48]
Booker McFarland
Well, everybody will say that Shamar Stewart out of Texas A and m because he's 65267 ran 45 like he's a freak but the production wasn't there. And it just depends on what side of the side of the tracks you fall on. Are you a traits guy or you're a production guy? I'm a traits guy, man. Like I like the guy because here's my analogy. I like driving fast cars. I'd rather drive a Mercedes than a pickup truck. Now it doesn't mean that I'm going to drive the Mercedes 120 every day, but if and when I want to go 120, I want to be able to get there. When you got a pickup truck, you can want to go 120, you're not getting there. So I'd rather have the guy that with the traits and a good coach that can get it out of him at some point. Like all the guys that win the first round, man, like James Pierce, Atlanta, I thought put the expectations on him that he's got to be a double digit side guy. When you give away a one to come back into the first round and take James Pierce who, oh by the way has got a lot of character stuff on his resume that is a bit rich for James Pierce. Not that he's not good, but the expectations in which you put on him are now magnified. So we'll see if he can live up to that.
- [31:03]
Ryan Rosillo
My thing with Pierce is I just feel like he didn't show up enough this year after last year. You know, I, I watched a lot of Tennessee games just because they were in the mix as a playoff team. And I kept, I kept looking for it, you know, like when I'd watch South Carolina's edge guys, I'd be like, there he is. You know, there's that dude again. I know it sounds really simplistic, but based on where Pearson, maybe I was looking at him with too tough of an eye because he was projected as a top 10 pick and all that kind of stuff. And I don't know if the character or film has more to do with him dropping, but I get the intangible, you know, speed, you know, I know he's a little undersized and all that kind of stuff, but I just felt like there was a lot of Tennessee games. I was like, man, I haven't, I haven't heard his name called in too long of a time.
- [31:52]
Booker McFarland
Yeah, I'd agree with that. And that's why I think when you say, okay, not only are we going to take him in the first round, we're going to trade back up to get him, it's putting a lot of pressure on that guy. You know, you talk about those South Carolina guys. I think the best one is still there, the freshman. You know, we can talk about Sanders, the three technique that got drafted, Canard. But I think the best one is, is still there. And, and I think he's going to wind up being, he's going to wind up being a top 10 pick when it's all said and done.
- [32:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I, I look, I can't wait to watch them again because I know some of those guys are gone, but. All right, let's, let's do this. The Giants.
- [32:32]
Booker McFarland
Yeah.
- [32:34]
Ryan Rosillo
If you like Jackson Dart that much, great. What is that going to be like? Have you been with a team? Well, you, you had like a really good run. So anywhere I ask you these questions, maybe I don't get the answer that I want. You've never been in a team where you'd had two guys that think that they're the one between Winston and Wilson and then Jackson being the first round pick, it doesn't make a ton of sense as far as reps and development. I think it's, I think it's inviting a more challenging scenario in for a guy that probably doesn't need does, but.
- [33:08]
Booker McFarland
When, if you look at, just always follow the money. All right. Jameis Winston, I think is making five, four or five. That's backup money. I think they gave Russ, what, 11, 12, something went 20, maybe something. It was.
- [33:21]
Ryan Rosillo
No, it's 11 guaranteed. It was announced as 21.
- [33:23]
Booker McFarland
Okay, so, okay, so there's your starter money. So Russ had starter money. Jameis has backup money, and now you bring in your developmental guy as the three. So I don't think there's any plans for Jackson Dart to play this year. I think what you hope to see is something very similar to Mahomes. You want the rest of the team to be really good. You want, you know, the defense to be dominant, the offense to be average, to maybe to a little bit above average, and maybe you get seven or eight wins and then you get to the end of the season and you play Jackson Dart a couple of games and you go tell the ownership, hey, defense is ready to go. We got our quarterback of the future, and Brian Daboll and Joe Shane are hoping they get an opportunity to see it through, since they did choose him. And so that's what you're hoping for. Now, the thing that could derail that plan is if they're, if, if they're 2 and 10 and like, they got to show a little bit more improvement with that, especially when you're going to go with Carter and Burns and Dexter Lawrence and the guys that they have in that defense, they should be, they should be really, really good on defense. I like Brian. Brian is one of the, he's one of the five or six coaches in this league that if your quarterback, if your son was a quarterback, Rossillo, coming into the league, I would say send your, send your son to McVay, Shanahan, O'Connell, Dabo, Liam Cohen, like, send your kid to those guys. Those guys understand how to develop the quarterback. And so I have no doubt. The only question is, are they going to get enough time and the rest of the team has to buy in the time to get to the quarterback, if that makes sense.
- [35:05]
Ryan Rosillo
People were not happy with your post about the almond latte with you and Greenie.
- [35:11]
Booker McFarland
Yeah.
- [35:12]
Ryan Rosillo
What, what was going on in Green Bay? People felt kind of sensitive about the big city folk coming in.
- [35:19]
Booker McFarland
Yeah, well, you know, Greenberg grew up in New York. He's a New Yorker. And so we go to Green Bay's version of ihop, which is called the Pancake Place. And so this is a down home local spot where you're going in there to get a really good breakfast. And we sit down, great people, the most friendliest people ever. And the first thing, the lady says, can I get you guys some coffee? And Greenberg goes, yes, I'll take an almond milk latte. And so I look at him and I said, hey, big guy, do you really think they have an almond milk latte in Green Bay? He says, you're probably right. And the lady said, how about some coffee? And she was like. He was like, yes. Do you have skim milk? I said, okay, let's back down a little bit. I say, they don't have almond nor latte, nor skim. She was like, he's right. Would you like some 2% milk? He was like, I'll take it. And so he found that to be the most hilarious thing ever. And so he posted it, and then he proceeded to order a pancake as big as your head, eggs over hard and some ham. And I'm like, hey, big guy, let's just stick to the basics. Eggs, bacon, pancakes. Let's not go above that. And so for three days in a row, that's what we had. We had eggs, we had bacon, and we had pancakes. And the nicest people in the world in Green Bay fed us.
- [36:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think people missed. The reasoning behind that is that that was Greenie poking funded himself, which he's done his entire career. And some people in Green Bay took it as if. Oh, I mean, you're. You're about as country as it gets. Despite those fancy suits and all of your investments and the way you can carry yourself in any room, the idea that you'd be some sort of big city coastal elite is. Is like the furthest thing from the truth. I was surprised how sensitive. Again, it's not all of Green Bay, so, you know, again, the polling of one theory on this, but it felt like there were multiple people that were really upset about, I don't know, I thought everybody loved it. It felt like everybody loved it. And for Green to be upset about coffee not being there, it wasn't that he was upset, it was him pointing out his fancy tendencies.
- [37:25]
Booker McFarland
Exactly. You're in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and you want almond milk or a latte, I say the big guy. It's just not going to happen. But they offended us so much that we went back three days in a row. That's how. Like, that's the thing that I'll say. Like, we went back three days in a row and they couldn't have been nicer. We took pictures with the people they posted. It was. It was a great time, man.
- [37:46]
Ryan Rosillo
What do you think Jacksonville will do with Travis Hunter?
- [37:49]
Booker McFarland
You know, Rosillo, here's the thing about Travis, man. I get it. He's a unicorn. He's different. And we as a society, we tend to over sensationalized things we haven't seen. And as soon as one person jumps on it, everybody jumps on. That's like this thing I'm seeing lately. 100 people versus gorilla. Okay. Like, let's be real. Okay. But you know what? All it took was one person to come in, and now it's gone viral and everybody wants to talk about it. Here's what I. And I'll get to that in a moment. As it pertains to Travis Hunter, if I Ask you what does he do best? What would you say?
- [38:25]
Ryan Rosillo
I think he's a better receiver than corner.
- [38:27]
Booker McFarland
All right, He's a better receiver at 6 foot, 185, 190 at best. Tremendous ball skills. I don't know. Yes and no. I don't know and I'll be.
- [38:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Sounds like no, that's fine, right?
- [38:42]
Booker McFarland
You know, I've seen games where he was a better receiver. I've seen games where he was a better db. I just want to see him go against the, the best corners in football and to see can he handle the physicality. My one question against him or about him is the physicality in which he's going to receive. Can you. Can you see him lining up at corner against Chase Jefferson, Nico Collins Diggs? Like some of the top receivers in the league, it just seems like, right, physically he's got some. He's got some work to do physically, not that he can't do it now with that being said, I think he's got every opportunity. I just need to see it. I don't think it's a home run as much as everybody does. Okay. I just don't. And maybe I'm in the minority and it sounds like I am. I just don't think it's going to be slam dunk. Oh, by the way, Jacksonville gave up a lot of stuff to get him. A lot.
- [39:35]
Ryan Rosillo
There's something that happens with basketball and it was funny because I was thinking about Kentavious Caldwell Pope the other night, watching him play, and it's like, look, at some point, like when he came out of Georgia, he could handle, he could attack. I think early on in his NBA career, he was somebody that you could trust on the ball a little bit. And then you start to get stuck in the corner and you provide spacing and he's a really good defender. You're not going to have the ball a lot with Jokic. I don't know if the NFL has a version of this, but there are a lot of dudes that came into the league expecting to have the ball in their hands and it just doesn't work that way. If you're not a one or two option, you're going to spend a lot of time off the ball. And so if you're not doing anything in game, you can, you can kind of lose your on ball talent. It's crazy. It happens all of the time where you'll look at a player and go, remember when he used to do this or do some of these things? But now he's been in real NBA games for multiple years. He's not asked to do with any of those things. So I don't even know if that talent is.
- [40:29]
Booker McFarland
I give you a guy like that, now tell me if I'm right. Jabari Smith Jr. I think I see him the same way.
- [40:35]
Ryan Rosillo
I love it because I worry about who he'll be because, look, he wasn't a great ball handler at Auburn, but the idea of the best version of him was, can you get this guy the ball in his hands at any point can he develop into being one of those dudes? And now he's a defender in a stretch three and, and so you're putting a real cap on, like what you can be as a player. Look, hell, and people are going to tell me I'm wrong on this. I saw it. Ray Allen went from an on the ball running screens, pull up all this stuff to he like lost his handle at the end of his career and it just seemed crazy to think, but he had had this. He just went from somebody who always had the ball in his hands to not having the ball in his hands. So the reason I bring any of that stuff up because it's a real thing, is the Travis Hunter corner thing. I think it's 6:1 and his physical traits, like 6:1 in a corner. You don't necessarily have to be able to jam Nico or some of the bigger dudes, but you go up there, you can test. I think his anticipation and his ball skills are terrific. So he definitely has a chance. And if you told me he's more valuable a corner than he is at wide receiver, then I'm totally for it. Even though I think, again, this is me also trusting the people that do this for a living. There's too many guys like Daniel, Jeremiah and McShay who are just like, look, I think he profiles better as a receiver. If you come out of the gates, you're like, we're going to worry about him being a dual threat guy a little bit later. That might be the worst thing you could do of the idea of him playing both ways. Like, you probably have to get him out there getting snaps and reps immediately. And I hope it happens. I, I, I like the pushback on the idea that this is never supposed to happen because it's too physically taxing, but maybe that's it. Or maybe he ends up having to find a way to protect himself in the game, which, you know, does that become a liability on the defensive side of the football? Does that mean he's not running every route the way he needs to be running routes. So you could be trying to do both and actually diminishing the special things that he does. But I hope they try it. It's just if, if they slow play it, then that doesn't really speak to developing him getting to an NFL level on the other side of the football. That's not a priority.
- [42:39]
Booker McFarland
I would agree with that. But again, it's one of those things that, like, we're going to find out based on, because when you're Jacksonville and you and you put the hall in to go get him, you have to have a plan. And I'll give Liam Cohen a lot of credit. He turned Baker Mason Mayfield's career around in Tampa. He had his two best season down here in Tampa. So he's a part of that offensive guru, ish type class. So he's got to have a plan for him. I brought something up. I need to get your opinion before I forget about it. What's your take on the whole 100 man gorilla thing that's been going around? Because the first thing I said is this. Two things. Number one, the first 20 dudes are really sacrificial lambs. They're going to die. It's the morale of the group has got to be great because 20 of you know you're going to die. The other 80 have to figure out a plan to actually hurt the gorilla. And in the end, I think all 100 men die. So what's. What's your take on this whole thing that's kind of taking the Internet by storm.
- [43:35]
Ryan Rosillo
I think this is about, you know, the hunted, the hungry. It's. It's all about mentality. You're absolutely right to watch the first 20 go down. It may be like Patrick Ewing in the NCAA tournament with Georgetown, where even though they were goal tens, it was like, dude, I don't want to go in there. And it can really damage morale because is the fifth wave going to be able to finish the job? And you know, it's like any fight, like, how mad is the other guy? How mad is he? Does he actually want. Does he like to do this stuff? If I have a hundred guys that want to kill the gorilla and not just win a bet, like, if they're like, we. It's time we take it out on this guy. It. It's all about the mentality. And I'd like to think if you had a hundred guys with the right mentality, they would find a way, but I don't know. I don't know if you could get, hey, big guy.
- [44:32]
Booker McFarland
You can have a 100 guys with the, with a mentality of the guy. Russell Crowe from Gladiator, like, they can all have that mentality without any weapons whatsoever. It, it's, it. As a matter of fact, I don't think it's going to last long, Russello. Like, like, that's the whole thing. But by like the Internet just jumps on and everybody think, like, do you have any idea?
- [44:57]
Ryan Rosillo
And it's actually because I've never watched a gorilla fight. A lot of guys.
- [45:01]
Booker McFarland
You don't have to watch him fight. Have you ever, you've been to the zoo before, big guy.
- [45:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Have you seen Horrifying, horrifying the reach. I mean, people getting on Will Campbell. Thank God this guy's not playing defensive end. It is, it is horrifying watching physically like what they are capable of. But a hundred, a hundred guys, I mean, I might, I don't know. Again, I'm trying to have an open mind about this. Like Travis Hunter playing both sides of the ball.
- [45:29]
Booker McFarland
You can have an open mind. You can have a game plan. As Mike Tyson said, everybody's got a plan. So they get hit in the mouth. When you see the gorilla hit the first dude and knock him 25ft in the air.
- [45:42]
Ryan Rosillo
If that happens and we have a group that's second guessing, then it's, then it's a mopping. I need guys, I need it to be a bit like, okay, we're grabbing a hundred guys from prison and if you win, you have years taken off of your sentence.
- [46:00]
Booker McFarland
You need Jon Snow. That's what you need. You need Jon Snow leading the charge.
- [46:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but if he doesn't have a sword, he's too small. That's not going to do much for you. What if, I mean, if you had 100 absolutely juiced out of their minds. Ly alzos.
- [46:19]
Booker McFarland
Tony, man, I'll give you a hundred, Tony man.
- [46:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think I need somebody meaner. I think I need, I think it might have to be special Forces. It might have to be like MMA stuff. It's not that I'm thinking like, l is the toughest guy of all time. What about like a hundred, boss? Ruttens.
- [46:36]
Booker McFarland
Yeah, okay, now we're talking. Okay.
- [46:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, so like he goes the first 10 bass, ruttens are going, I just love saying his name. But if he says, okay, the first 10, all we're doing is we're going low, we're going low, we're going to try to get him. I don't know, I don't know. I mean, that first, that first wave is going to be destroyed. Van Lathan had an unbelievable post. Our guy, he posted a whole whiteboard breakdown of how it would happen. And he was like, the first wave of 20 is just all Vince Wilfork types. Just mass, just as much mass as possible. Could take the blows. And then he kind of went with like Jon Jones types as the finisher at the very end. But, but here's, here's why at least like wonder there's a number where you go human, right?
- [47:23]
Booker McFarland
Okay, what's the number? What's the number that you, that you'd be willing to put that nice little view you have right there to the ocean on? What's the number? Is it, is it 150? Is it 200 men?
- [47:35]
Ryan Rosillo
There has to be a number where it becomes overwhelming. So that's, I think, what we're really trying to figure out here. If it. And 100 gets thrown out and then we all are just married to the idea that it's only 100, okay, that's fine. And then everybody shoots it down and it probably is the gorilla against 100. But there does exist a number where it becomes too much. So that's where I allow, allow it to be gamed out a bit more.
- [47:56]
Booker McFarland
I'm going to say I would feel comfortable, I would feel very comfortable at around 175.
- [48:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. 175 is the number. Okay. Speaking of stupid conversations, there were a few theories suggested about why Shador wasn't selected until the fifth round. Yeah, you know, we spent some time on it on Sunday night. Some people were really upset. Some people were reasonable about it.
- [48:25]
Ray Mendoza
I don't know.
- [48:26]
Ryan Rosillo
I think it seems pretty clear to me that, that Chador and Dion played this wrong. Their approach was the wrong approach for somebody that wasn't an elite top tier quarterback prospect. Your thoughts?
- [48:40]
Booker McFarland
So this is a very nuanced conversation. And I've probably had calls from people I hadn't heard from, former coaches that coached me in college. And a lot of them have been asking me just point blank, is this racist, is this colluding? And it's a nuanced conversation. And here's how I start the conversation. If you go back to October, November, December, here's the first part. Dion comes out and these are facts, not my opinion. Dion comes out and says, hey.
- [49:13]
Ryan Rosillo
We'Re.
- [49:14]
Booker McFarland
Going to pick and choose where we go. All right? When he says that we're going to pick and choose where we go, to me, he's Saying to the NFL that, guess what? We're choosing you, you're not choosing us. And for me, that kind of turns a lot of people the wrong way in the National Football League, that's number one. Number two, let's look at the entire job interview, which is what this process is, the combine. He goes to the combine, doesn't work out, doesn't do anything, no big deal. Other guys do. He goes to the East West Shrine Game where the NFL has said, hey, if you come to the All Star game and you come, you need to, you need to participate. Well, he came, he didn't participate. You look at the. Some of the interviews again, I listened to McShay. All the people in the know, I heard what McShay said. There are people that says he wasn't rude. He just act as if he didn't need to be there. Okay, that's one thing. The Giants go work him out. Day ball gives him some concept for plays to learn the night before. Day of, he doesn't. He doesn't have the things to memory where he can actually go out and rep it, blah, blah, blah. That whole thing falls apart. And I say all that to say this. There's a lot of fault to go around. Number one, from the standpoint of his dad, I think Deion deserves a little bit of fault also based on that comment. Number two, I think the media deserves a little bit of fault also because we had the entire country thinking he was going to be a first rounder. When the NFL scouts didn't tell us this, we were told this from Jeremiah Kuyper McShade. Everyone said at worst, he was the second round pick. At worst, NFL didn't think that way. The scouts and coaches didn't think that way. Thirdly, I think the kid has to realize that there was a little bit of arrogance and cockiness about his approach to the whole process. And when you couple all that together, Resolo, when you put all those things together, I think the combination of all of that turned some of the teams off about a guy who they deemed to be a backup quarterback. And here's the real kicker that nobody wants to talk about. 32 teams that need a quarterback. All right? You're really only talking about five to seven teams that needed a quarterback. Well, Tennessee took theirs. All right? New York had a decision to make. New York chose Jackson Dart. The New Orleans Saints chose Tyler Schuck. Mike Tomlin chose Aaron Rodgers. All right, so when you start thinking about the teams that needed a quarterback, they chose other people. And I think the combination of all the things that I said is the reason why. And I think our society wants to put it in a certain category. It's collusion, it's race, it's the owners teaching Deion a lesson. I don't think it's any of that. I just think it's a combination of things that came together where the kid wasn't as talented as we thought he was. And the NFL says, okay, we don't really like how your Persona or your attitude or whatever fits with what we have going and they'd rather not deal with it. And so when you get to the fifth round, I don't know how much guaranteed money that's there. He's in a position now in the fifth round where if he goes into Cleveland and he doesn't do the things exactly the way they want to, they'll cut him. And I think that's the position these teams wanted to be in with him rather than be in a position where he's a first or second round pick and they owe him something and he's almost forced to be on the team. That's my take on it.
- [52:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I knew you were going to do a good job on it and maybe I'm, I'm looking at it because we agree. So, you know, I, I came into this on Saturday. I was still pretty shocked he hadn't been drafted. I think a couple guys went ahead of him. So then it's like, okay, so if he wasn't. Because it's also, it's probably the biggest gap between the mock speculation and where a player who's drafted I can ever remember. I don't know that we're ever going to have something like this because, you know, people can kind of do the, that now, you know, like play the result part of it. Of like, it feels like a lot of people now are saying, wow, he never really was a first rounder. Like, dude, I give Quincy Avery a lot of credit. He came on this pod a couple weeks before the draft was like, look, if he's Chador Williams, he's a six round pick. And I thought he was like being a little too harsh on the whole thing, but he was breaking down specific things to his tape. And then he said on top, everything else he goes, you know, if it doesn't go well, then you've got Dion using his CU press conferences to on the NFL staff because it's not working out for his son. So if that's part of it, I don't know that that's Necessarily a lesson. I think it kind of speaks to everything you said. You add all of these things up, it's not a great pre draft process. It's not the best tactic. Game plan, like, hey, what's our strategy? We're going to do all these things and we're going to do it with somebody who's probably getting more second and third round grades. And then maybe the third to fifth round drop was the tax. That can seem personal, it can seem unfair, but these teams can kind of do whatever they want. And if there was one of the 32 that thought he was really special, they'd be able to get over all of this other stuff that led to think about this.
- [54:19]
Booker McFarland
Ryan, Ryan, we have put people in this league that have killed people. The NFL is about winning. There have been people that have killed people and played in the league. So the NFL will tell you if your talent is great enough. We will tolerate a lot of things. So they, they just don't think his talent is great enough to deal with everything we're discussing.
- [54:44]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, we've seen it time and time again, unfortunately, and you know, teams will, will justify any of it. I mean, I remember like, do you remember that story with Leonard Little? And then it was a photographer and it was his wife and they actually interviewed and I mean, it was such an unbelievably heartbreaking story that you have this photographer who was basically like, I just asked that I don't have to show up to photograph the games that he's in. And it was like, yeah, I think that's a fair request. So, you know, I don't, I don't know. You know, look, I don't think anybody's necessarily going to change their mind on this stuff. Know, I always try to wonder like, okay, what could I miss about it? I talked to Van about it a little bit on Sunday where, because I saw a lot of like, well, his confidence. You know, I've seen that from NFL media members that I like. You know, I would consider people that I've gotten along with and it's like, oh, his confidence. If it's a confident young black man, then society doesn't like that. And I can, look, I can kind of understand that conclusion with some things, but when it comes to football, like, Cam Newton's one of the most confident human beings I've ever seen in my entire life. He went number one. You want to know why? Because he probably had the best college season I've ever seen at quarterback. Depending on, I'm talking about, like, how much his team relied on one player to win a national championship. So, all right, if you're telling me that there's. There's maybe not. Maybe there's just an inherent, a subconscious part of it where if you're white, you're like, oh, am I, you know, am I reading this one wrong? Is. Is there something to this that I'm oblivious to and that I'm not understanding? Is there an older guy who's a decision maker who sees door and sees the tape and sees him feeling himself and sees him how he carries himself, and he's like, I don't like any of that. Is there something else there that's really nefarious and that anybody pushing back has a really good point and I'm arguing something that I can't see. I wonder all of those things as I've thought about it the last few days, and it's like, yeah, but we have dudes that are feeling themselves at that position all the time. All the time. And if they were good enough, the teams had no problem handing in that card.
- [56:59]
Booker McFarland
Dude, I completely agree with you. I do think now, like, even with all that being said and done. So think about this. If Cleveland takes him to everybody's happy. It's a big party. Well, Cleveland got him in the fifth round, but he's still in Cleveland and he still got, I think, a very favorable situation. Deshaun Watson most likely is going to be out for the year. Joe Flaco is 90. I don't know if he can hold up through an entire season. Kenny Pickett, you know, two gloves, he couldn't make it in Pittsburgh. So now you're. You're literally, if you're going to look at this fairly, it's a quarterback room of Dud and Gabriel at five, ten and a quarter and shadow Sanders and Kenny Pickett wearing two gloves.
- [57:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Two gloves really bother you, huh?
- [57:40]
Booker McFarland
I mean, they, they bothered him, evidently, because he couldn't make it in Pittsburgh. If you ask your dear Sanders pre draft of any situation you could be in where you could be in the most favorable situation, where not that you could start week one, but that your future, you could see your future aligning at this particular organization, you'd probably choose Cleveland because Stefanski is one of those dudes, right? Stefanski is in. He's also in the McVeigh, Shanahan, Liam Cohen, Kevin O'Connell, bucket. Like, he's. He's there. He's won coach of the year twice. And so if you're Shador and once you get Past the butthurt of having a three day draft party and all that stuff, and you get to the point of you show up in Cleveland, which by all accounts I think he got there today, and you just go in and work. We could look back two years from now, he could be the starting quarterback of the Browns and be on his way to a nice career. I think at best he's Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, and people are going to say, oh, Bug, go look at how much Kirk Cousins and Andy Dalton have made. Kirk Cousins is close to $270 million. Andy Dalton is over like $140 million. I take Kirk Cousins and Andy Dalton right now, and I think in his best situation, that's what he is. And I think he has an opportunity to have a really, really good career.
- [58:55]
Ryan Rosillo
I definitely thought he was better than a fifth rounder. There's some stuff that I like from him. There's other stuff where I don't like, but I love his toughness and I love that it felt like he rose to the occasion and he did it behind an old line and a lack of running game for two years that, you know, if you, if you're a franchise, like, hey, we don't have a good old line. Like, well, this guy's used to getting the shit beat out of him for, for an hour out there. So you're right, though, like, if you're as good, if you're going to tell everybody that they're wrong, like, what a great opportunity to beat out everybody else. And it may not be week one, right, but you're going to get a chance with that group in front of you because Flacco is not part of the plan. And if you're, if you're getting good reps in practice and they're going to give you that chance, I would think, I mean, I guess there's a bunch of different scenarios, like a Pickett makes less mistakes and he's been exactly who we want, you know, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's a way he plays, there's a way he doesn't play, but it's not like there's some massive roadblock in his way where the team felt like, okay, even though we've taken a guy in the first round five years ago, he's clearly our guy for the next five years. But Sanders was too talented, had to go ahead and take him at the fifth round. Like, this is ridiculous. If he's stuck behind somebody, then maybe we don't even get that kind of answer. But if he's as good as he says he is, his father says he is, then here you go. You're going to get your opportunity, and you can prove everybody wrong.
- [60:15]
Booker McFarland
And think about this. They declined the fifth year option on Kenny Pickett. So Kenny Pickett is in the last year. DeSean Watson. He's got one year left, and nobody wants him in Cleveland. So, I mean, everything is lined up if he's going to get an opportunity to shoot to prove that there's a future there. And that's all you can ask for.
- [60:32]
Ryan Rosillo
If Dylan Gabriel starts in games and then throws a late pick. Though, I am bracing myself for the Dion commentary, because it'd be nothing easier than just saying, hey, my guy would have done it better than right. That's where it's going to be nasty.
- [60:46]
Booker McFarland
That's where Deion has to be the dad and not the coach of Colorado. And. And I'm saying that the right way, because the coach of Colorado has a press conference, and you get to talk to the masses. A dad can make that comment to his buddies. It's okay for Deion to think that he just can't say that the press conference. He's got to say that to his buddies, and he's got to do his kid a favor and not create any undue pressure.
- [61:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, look, he's already started. I mean, he had a quote the other day where he was like, I'm not going to give you more headlines. I'm going to keep it. And it's like, oh, really? Did you want me to write that down? This is the part where you're going to say that you're not going to talk about this because you're not going to give everybody headlines. And then he sent out some other tweets, so whatever, man. It's unfortunate, I think, that the kid. Even though when I say kid here, but, you know, pro athlete, it's unfortunate that Shador, as much as he brought on himself, I think, also paid a heavier tax because his dad's saying, this is how it's going to be done. And when they started saying, hey, there are certain teams, it's like, you got to be really special to pull that off. All right, last thought. Are you worried about Bill Belichick?
- [61:51]
Booker McFarland
I'm trying to put this as. As politically correct as possible, but there's really no other way. There was a man who told me years ago, he said so very few things in life are certain. And he simply said this. He said, that thing between a woman's legs is undefeated it's undefeated. It's never lost for Solo. And regardless of how great we think Belichick is, and he's the hoodie and we're on the Cincinnati big guy. It's undefeated. It's never lost for Solo. It's. It hadn't been tied, it hadn't been. It hadn't even. It hadn't even gone to overtime. Now, all seriousness aside, I think Bill is in a situation where Bill has found a companion if he likes it. I love seems a little odd to us somebody in his situation having a 24 year old kind of dictate things. And maybe it is odd, but again, I think he's earned the right to do what he wants to do at 70 plus years old. But just know this, it's undefeated, buddy. It is undefeated.
- [62:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Well said, Booger McFarland, ESPN.
- [62:58]
Booker McFarland
Hey, by the way. Hey, by the way. Hey, listen, I'm gonna give a couple basketball takes really quick. Number one, okay. I think the Luca LeBron partnership, it's amazing how it's come back full circle. It was going to be for the future and then we got tricked into believing it was for now. And as we see now in the playoffs, it's for the future because they got no shot of beating Minnesota. That's number one. Number two, everybody talked themselves into the Clippers being a team that can make a title run. I don't think they can because I think when Denver, if Murray and Porter and Gordon and Jokic are on the floor, I still think they have championship DNA. They got to be on the floor. Orlando, I think Orlando in two years, Orlando has an opportunity to be really good. The Wagner brothers. Who else? Okc. I worry about a team that if you said let's take away SGA and I'm going to make the other four or the other team, the rest of the team. Can the other team beat me 4 out of 7? I'd be willing to take that chance. SGA is the MVP, but I'm going to make the rest of the team. Beat me four games out of seven and I'll tip my hat. Cleveland, Cleveland's got a bunch of parts and the best things that. The best thing that Cleveland and OKC do is use their youth. Play fat, play fast. Houston's the same way. When you're the younger team and you got more athletes, play fast, play faster. That's all Minnesota did to the la. Just make them tired as hell. They can't keep up with you. There's my NBA takes on the podcast.
- [64:34]
Ryan Rosillo
That was incredibly efficient. That was joker level efficiency. You just got it all out there. You're 100 right. On the Lakers thing though, of like, all right, well, this is 25s a wash. It's like, no, they're gonna want to win the west because nobody respects OKC enough. And you kind of dissed him a little bit there too. I would submit to you Chet Holmgren's third quarter against Memphis the other night as a reminder of what he can do. And Jalen Williams is, I think, one of the most underrated. We'll see what happens when it's a real opponent in the playoffs. But like, I'm watching Golden State okc, or excuse me, I'm watching Golden State Houston. I said this in the open and I'm thinking about like, okay, Golden State say they get through Houston here. Like, how's that offense going to stabilize enough in seven game series against the Thunder? Beat them. Like, that's, that's not going to happen. I liked a lot of what you said though, because the Lakers full circle moment, like, we're right back to the first 24 hours after the trade, like, okay, well, you know what? It wasn't really about this year. Like when they went 18 and three. It certainly felt about this year. Thank you so much for the time, man. And when are you out in la? Never.
- [65:38]
Booker McFarland
No, I'm gonna. I'm coming out because I'm coming out to play LA Country Cup. I want to get on the south course. I want to play and I've been listening to a bunch of podcasts. I heard you took a trip to Pinehurst. I. You're a big golfer now, so I'm a 14 handicap. That means I can shoot 82 or I can shoot 102. You and I have to get on the golf course and we're going to play. I can't wait. Here's the only rule I have.
- [66:01]
Ryan Rosillo
We're playing. Don't even worry about it.
- [66:03]
Booker McFarland
Here's the. Here's the only rule I got. If you wear the shorts that you recorded the McShay podcast and I'm not playing with you because according to reports, it was a lot of thigh me showing. I'm not playing with another man that shows thigh meat on the golf course. Not doing it. I'm just letting you know.
- [66:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I got to figure out where all these people that comment on anything I wear in everything I do, whether it's international documentaries or nine inch shorts.
- [66:29]
Booker McFarland
Brother, stay away from the seven inch shorts. Nine inch, nine inch shorts, look, the.
- [66:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Ones that I wore A part of my take at my house a few years ago for that thing. I blame myself. Right. Full accountability. This is sort of my joke about.
- [66:42]
Booker McFarland
Like, who else are you gonna blame?
- [66:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, I'm doing my favorite athlete thing when it's like the person only can be blamed. It's like, you know what? Hand up. That's on me. Like, no, it's not on anyone else. I'm just surprised how many people haven't sat in a chair before at £230. When you sit in a chair, if you want to say I'm fat, you're going to think I look fat if I'm wearing shorts.
- [67:09]
Booker McFarland
We're 230 now, by the way. Yeah, I thought you. I thought she was like 210. When did we get to 230?
- [67:16]
Ryan Rosillo
No, no, 210. That. What are you talking about? I've been. I've been in the 220 to 230 range for a long time.
- [67:23]
Booker McFarland
Okay. I just. I mean, you wear it well.
- [67:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Thank you. Appreciate that. It's the nicest thing you've said to me today. I just think if you sit on the couch for two hours and you're entertaining people all over the world, the shorts hike up a little bit and I hate that couch. That couch came with the house leather. It's not super comfortable. I think it's custom thing and it doesn't fit anywhere else. But I gotta talk to my couch people. Speaking of. Yeah, I gotta. I gotta say goodbye to you now.
- [67:50]
Booker McFarland
This is awesome, but Golf zone can't wait, buddy.
- [67:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Again, it's on.
- [67:54]
Booker McFarland
No. No question whatsoever.
- [67:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't get mad. I have a blast. I mean, I would like to play better than I'm playing, but just so you know, I know what the scouting report would be on me. I go, if I'm not playing well, I'm. Hey, we'll get them next time. There's always the next hole. I have a great mentality now for it that I didn't have when I was younger.
- [68:12]
Booker McFarland
If I'm gonna. If it takes me longer than 3:45 to play 18, there's a problem. Like, that's my. I'm. That's all I'm concerned with.
- [68:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Some people say I play too fast. Like, hey, you might want to take a little bit more time to set up this next shot. So that's. That's what we're working on now. You're the best. Thanks, man.
- [68:28]
Booker McFarland
Later.
- [68:31]
Ryan Rosillo
This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. If you're in B2B marketing. You want to make sure you're not wasting your ads on the wrong people. I remember when I was younger and I would watch games on television and I thought, man, a lot of ads about retirement, who's this for? And then I got older and I understood it. I was like, oh, now it makes sense. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You can target your buyers based on job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue, all the professionals you need to reach in one place. Stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals only on LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign. So you can try it out yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com rrs that's LinkedIn.com rrs Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads. Warfare is one of the best movies of the year. I was lucky enough to check it out in theaters. I would urge you to do so as well. And joining us now, director and writer of again a great film, Ray Mendoza. Ray, thanks for doing this. How are you?
- [69:43]
Ray Mendoza
My pleasure. I'm well.
- [69:46]
Ryan Rosillo
So there's a few different things that I clearly want to ask you about to reach out and talk about the film, but if we can just kind of go into your background a little bit and when you first entered the military and what led to being stationed in Iraq.
- [70:01]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah, always wanted to join ever since I was a little kid. You know, maybe some can argue that Hollywood had something to do with that. Growing up in the 80s, some of the best movies in my opinion, Commando, Predator, Tombstone, you know, I could go down Terminators, I don't know. It was something that was always attractive to me, like serving. Didn't know what I wanted to do, wasn't sure. It was a lot of information on the SEAL teams then like there is now or any really soft component. Always loved the water, always loved the beach. And so as I got older, it was time to get out. You know, graduating high school, it was just the sill seemed like a good place for me to go and try out to see if I can, I could do it. By chance it ended up being kind of a perfect fit. I kind of dovetailed in with the mentality there. The, you know, I grew up playing sports, always very competitive and so it just really nurtured that, you know, something that Was already there. Yeah. I showed up and they're like, yeah, made it through training, had a few hiccups here and there, but eventually checked into team five, did three pumps. There was a communicator right out the right way. They, it was just by chance. They just needed a communicator. I was the first guy to check in. Like, you're going to communication school. I was like, I don't have a. About radios. Like, well, that's where you're going to communication school. But it ended up being a good fit for me.
- [71:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Just.
- [71:43]
Ray Mendoza
It puts you at the center of all information that you disseminated, which, you know, the. One of the character, the guy who plays me in the movies portrays that somewhat. Yeah. And then, you know, obviously the war kicked off and just Iraq was just the insurgency. You know, typically we're, we're. We're kind of farmed out. You know, we're not big enough to have our own battle space. So we're attached to. So army or Marine Corps battalion or some Army Marine Corps brigade. And then we are used accordingly as is very surgical tool. Yeah, that's kind of my history and how I joined and ended up in Iraq again.
- [72:29]
Ryan Rosillo
So I'd like the answer. I mean, for a few different reasons, but you end up working in Hollywood as a stunt coordinator post serving. And yet even as a little kid, like the two things that had motivated you, the attraction to the military, but then also being like, hey, from LA and the movie part of this. So after this experience, which is the story that we're going to get to, I mean, had you been working on this knowing deep down that you had this story, like you may have wanted to tell it, but did you feel like your story in this mission was something you were like, I think there's something here, there's something in this that I would like to tell if I ever got the opportunity.
- [73:11]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah, there's a lot of components to how I came to this, to that. Just wanted to make this video to your. To answer your question, it's. I think it starts with how I got in the movie industry, which is with active valor, which is like the Navy's essentially attempt to grow the SEAL teams. At the time in 2000, like right after Red Wings with Marcus, we were losing a lot of seals. Whether that's them getting out or just dying. So we're gaining. I think I had one SEAL year at the time. It wasn't enough to expand the SEAL teams. Right.
- [73:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Any.
- [73:43]
Ray Mendoza
So it was like we got to.
- [73:45]
Booker McFarland
Get the word Out.
- [73:45]
Ray Mendoza
We need people to join the Navy. So, yeah, it's Active Valley. That's where I got introduced to filmmaking. I met stunt core. You know, the stunt coordinator, Scotty Wall Bass Okoy. You know, some guys turned movie makers, were the directors. Met them, met a bunch of other stunt guys, other producers. Yeah, Started like Day playing as the stunt guy. Stuntman. And then l came around. Marcus a TR gave me a hoot. Hey, love you. To train the cast. And that was my first experience behind the camera, which. That's like a whole different world when you're in front of the camera, especially for active valor, everyone's catering to you. You don't really understand how things work. But on this, I saw how it all just like dovetailed together. And what was very attractive to me was the these, the structure, which was multiple department heads working in kind of concert with each other to achieve one thing. In their case, it was a movie. In our case, it's typically a mission. So like just that was just like, oh, this is very similar. There's like the pressures and time and someone having to make a decision. For them, making time is money and we're talking millions of dollars. Some people don't like making those hard decisions. I do. I'm like thriving that I want to be the guy to make the big decision. This is awesome. I love this. So, yeah, it was like just a cool medium to tell stories. That's probably where, you know. So then this is 2014. When Elliot, when this first happened, Elliot doesn't remember what happened. So when he woke up, obviously had a lot of questions. No matter how many maps we drew, the other times we answered his questions via email, it just almost raised more questions, I think because he didn't have that core memory. Visually, it just raised a lot of questions from big picture, big picture questions of why what? To the little questions of like, what color things were. So, you know, after Lone Survivor, that's where I think that first seed was planted. It's like, well, maybe one day it'll, you know, I could just do like a 30 minute recreation of what happened. I never could I ever think it would be a movie on this scale. So I just started to learn the tools and there's like other, you know, as you start. I started. My name started to get around. I started working on other films, was day plans, some guys and all the different shows in LA and just learning more. Sorry. You know, and then between jobs, tech advising jobs, because at the time nobody knew me. I was a PA in camera department. I worked in production. I sat in any rooms. So I was just kind of really learning how to speak this new language because I didn't want to give it to somebody. A lot of great film directors who have done war movies, I just felt they always missed something, whether they misrepresented the culture because they weren't there. And so I just felt like there, it's all anecdotal for them. So I was like, one day, I think I'm just going to keep acquiring the skill sets and the tools to do this myself. And a lot of things had to be in line, meaning the people who are funding it had to let me because I didn't want to change anything. Anyone involved. Yeah. I was just on board with it being very, very factual because it was going to be a recreation for Elliot, and I didn't want to do it any other way. If it wasn't going to happen that way, then I just wasn't going to do it.
- [77:41]
Booker McFarland
Yeah.
- [77:41]
Ryan Rosillo
And it's very clear. And I think hooking up with Alex Garland on Civil War and then having somebody who has that resume, if anybody is ever trying to get anything done, it's like, okay, cool idea, cool script. But now I need somebody who's aligned. And I wonder, as you went through the process and kind of sticking to these rules of building out the story, it feels like Alex was 100% aligned with, with you immediately on the way it's been.
- [78:10]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah. Sorry to interrupt.
- [78:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Go ahead.
- [78:13]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Coincidentally, you know, when he, when he was editing Civil War, I, I, I built out, I don't know. Have you seen then, have you seen Civil War? Yeah, yeah. So there's like that whole White House piece externally, eventually making the way into the, the corridor to the final corridor of the Oval Office. So, like, I built all that out for him. You know, I just created this kind of 360 freaking playground for him, which is pretty, it's pretty fun. It's pretty awesome. So things are concurrently happening. There'll be like, he's like, no matter where you point the camera, Alex, something's happening. I just created. This is like 360amusement park for you. And so, yeah, it was just, he loved it. But in editing that, I think he saw something. He saw with all the other directors, that weakness. He saw the, you know, I like to use the watch analogy, which Alex saw all the little cogs that are moving, or most records just see the big cogs in the watch. He saw like every little moving part, all the connective tissue and I was like, interesting because I was watching how he shot it and what he was focusing on. And I was like, and that stuff has always been there for all the other guys. They just didn't see it. So, yeah, in editing it, he kept it in there. I think he noticed this weird verite, kind of grounded, just really almost like you just documentary style of action that he really liked. So he gave me a call. I was like, hey, I'm editing this thing and it's really, really awesome. I would love to do like a full length movie like this. It's going to be minute by minute, real time, no time compressions. If it didn't happen, it's not going in the movie. We can't, we can only slide the window. We can't expand it or fragment it. Do you have any stories? And I had, you know, I know there's a lot of stories, but it also had to be like a bunch of check marks based off the budget. It needed to be somewhat contained, which this story was. So I had asked my friends and I asked myself if I was ready to do that just, even, just like emotionally. And I knew my friends were gonna have to be involved, so I needed to make sure they were on board. And the only way we were like, yeah, like I said, the only way we were gonna do it was we had to represent it accurately as possible because it was somewhat going to be. It was my only chance. I'm not going to get another chance of doing this. And so Alex was like, that's the way I want it. And I was like, perfect. And they were like, let's do this shit.
- [81:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Maybe because it's alex and a 24. Because I just was, as I was watching it, I can only think of like how pitches work, right? You're like, oh, here's what we're going to do. It's this one objective and it's essentially one room and then some outside shots. And it's only going to take this long. And there's no love interest, there's no third act conflict. There's no, I guess the resolution is getting the guys out. But was there ever any part of you was like, maybe they're not getting this right? The ups and downs of getting any kind of project done, because it is. I mean, that's what's so special about it, I think, is that, hey, this is what happened. And here we go for 90 minutes. And we're never going to let up. You're never going to, never going to feel relaxed as an audience, which I really appreciated because it's not just a really great story with effects and great acting. It's an experience for those, those 90 minutes. And I could just see so many people thinking like, okay, well this doesn't work. Like this actually isn't what the audience always wants. So can we actually pull this off?
- [82:06]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah, I mean, I think Alex and I have talked about this a lot and with lacking narrative, lacking dialogue, where, you know, I, I wouldn't argue that. I think every character has an art. They treated them like that, they had arcs. But yeah, I think like we didn't want to, we, we like to treat, and even myself, when I go and watch a movie, I like to be treated like I have some intelligence. I'm not an idiot. I don't like being spoon fed stuff. So there's a lot of subtext in the movie. Sure. So I think, but I think we just wanted to treat everybody like adults. And it wasn't so much on the why, you know, why the war had happened. You can go down a rabbit hole on, on why the why you think the war happens. From oil to weapons of mass destruction, you name it, government corruption. I read, heard and seen them all. Well, that's not for you to make that decision. I, I don't need to throw my hat in the ring on why because it doesn't matter why. Nobody gave a about why when we did it, but now they care about why when I make the movie. So for me it's more about the what, what is combat? What happens after stuff like this. What happens when you're young, it's your first time and you get a grenade thrown in. So it was more about the what, what does it feel like? What does it sound like? And that was kind of our focus. And if you want to know why, then yeah, Internet's a powerful tool. You should go look up why you think we were there.
- [83:51]
Ryan Rosillo
What's that moment like and not in the movie and being in that experience in 2006 and knowing that everybody's life is on the line and it's like, okay, I wanted to be in the military. I wanted to prove my toughness. I made it through SEAL training and now I'm here and like, this is, this is bad. We don't know if we're going to get out of here. What is that, that first moment like for, for you and your team members of going like, I have no idea how this is going to go.
- [84:22]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah, I mean that was, I think when we all, when we, after the ID and I Drug Elliot into the house there. Delicted for me about the time I was like, yeah, if they wanted to rush this building, you know, we take a few of them with us. But yeah, we done. We all knew that we were. Our position at that time was. Was crippled. And if they wanted to, yeah, we were done. And I remember, like, we all think the same because we're always, you know, we. We're put. When we train, we, you know, we simulate a lot of these. There's no way to predict two guys getting bona up. But, you know, we do these, these down man drills and we do mass casualty drills. And you know how to prioritize and execute, like, all right, these are the priorities. If you have a massive, you know, multiple injuries in your position, compromise. Here's what you're supposed to do. And a lot of that is just this theory because you don't know what the enemy is going to do. So you can train so much. And we train the failure on a lot of things. And they're like, all right, what'd you learn? We do it again, and then they'll add something new. So we were constantly training the failure to kind of anticipate those things. But there's just some things you can't anticipate, which is like being concussed. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, you can have a checklist, but if you're concussed. Now we're talking about a physical attribute that it's not opinion based. It's just like, it's a very physical injection of something that's something being inserted that's physical that you can't manipulate or power through sometimes. So when you realize that in a moment of being concussed, you know, half your force has been cut down and with one explosion, you feel this real sense of vulnerability. And yeah, other than just like, hopefully the movie described it.
- [86:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [86:24]
Ray Mendoza
I have a hard time describing what it is, which is kind of why I made the film, you know. You know, some people paint, some people write poetry, some people write songs or write up tune on a piano or guitar. For me, I like doing it. I can do it in movies. I can convey it through pictures versus talking about it. I can talk about it, I guess then I can handle it. I just don't have the words to describe it. It's just too specific of an event to describe how I was feeling. And it's not just one emotion. It's fear, anger, regret. Like, fuck, I should have worked out harder. Damn it. I can't drag Elliot up The driveway, and you're just like, I can't do anything on now, but I have. Now I have regret. They should have. Should do more on leg day type thing. So, yeah, you know, it's. It's a lot going on there.
- [87:22]
Booker McFarland
Okay.
- [87:23]
Ryan Rosillo
But I think I realized something, though, now, even talking to you about it and, you know, as you talked about each character's arc, that I do think you do a great job of that, where, okay, it's the overall shot and it moves so fast and there's all this stuff happening, but you kind of allow the audience to see what's going on with each team member in different moments, where we check in on them for a second and then we check in the guy playing you where you're concussed, yet you're still trying to communicate. And I think the thing that I always wonder about is you can go through all of this, but you don't really know how everybody is going to respond. But you're also trying to take care of yourself. And when you think about that moment, I just wonder how you. You balance. Like, okay, I'm fucked right now, but that guy might be more fucked than me. And then now we have two guys that have maybe fatal injuries. Like, what is it like trying to be part of a team yet still wondering how. How you're doing as you look around the room?
- [88:24]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah, I mean, there's. There's some things that, like, there's like, basic, I think, operations that happen. Magazine changes. I'll give an example. Magazine changes. I don't remember doing magazine changes, but I did them at the end because they handed me three magazines in there, and I was like, I don't. I was like, oh, shit. I don't remember going through this. So there's, like, things like that. Those mundane things that you do because you've done it thousands of times. So your brain is like, okay, you're operating on low bandwidth right now. I'm taking over, and you're just on the autopilot. You're doing some of those basic things, and you're not even aware that you're doing. So now you're just focusing on the things that you normally don't do. Like, I'm not a medic. I mean, I. While everyone was doing, like, live teacher training, like, I was probably dropping bombs in some desert somewhere doing training on aircraft. So I just didn't focus on. I got basic stuff. But I'm. So now I'm like, I. I can't worry about all the other things. I'm trying to, like, remember what I learned, you know, a year ago about tourniquets and morphing and packing wounds and stuff like that. So, yeah, it requires a lot. So. But I think there's times where. And where we're all concussed and we're all going through these ins and outs. That's the beauty of a team, because I think there's times where I was blacked out. One minute I'm nailing the next feeling I'm standing, and I don't what happened in between that, but someone else is doing something in between that. And I think they probably noticed I was passed out or just like, who knows? Who knows what the fuck I was there. But we're all kind of helping each other, and we just need a lot of times, you see, like, 30 seconds to just, like, get it back and like, all right, cool. I'm good. I'm back in. And we're all kind of, like, taking turns with each other until the other ops arrived. So it's very much a team effort. It's, you know, like I said, a lot of it's autopilot stuff, but there's just things that you just notice. You got the. It's. It's what's ingrained us. It's like, always find work. Always find work. Even as I put in a tourniquet or applying pressure onto Elliot's leg or Joe's leg, like, I'm trying to make calm. I'm trying to add to the. You know, be an additive and not be dead weight, so to speak.
- [90:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Did a guy really shoot himself in the thumb with morphine?
- [91:02]
Ray Mendoza
He did, yeah. Yeah, it really did. Everything that's in the movie happened.
- [91:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I mean, now that I've read enough prep on how you went ahead and told the story, I think there's something else I want to ask you about, and that's. You can read some books and whether you go back to historic wars, but I was reading something about World War II and shipping off all of the equipment to Africa. And basically the things they needed to get the jeeps off they packed onto the ship first. So just logistical of the ships are ready to unload. We're like, we can't get these jeeps off because the ramps are all the way in the back, and they should have been the last thing that was packed. And then, you know, you read it and go, okay. And then, you know, look, I've. I've read all the modern stuff, and I think there's a lot of. I don't I don't know if it's, oh, well, once you're out there, the bureaucracy of it all and logistical stuff, and there's all of these communication headaches. I remember, I think, 20 years ago when I was working in Boston and I was at the small radio station and there was a guy that was active military, but he was coming by the radio station because one of the hosts was really cool about it. He'd have guys in active duty come on and talk Red Sox with us and stuff when they were back. And I was asking him about it, and I think we're probably about the same age. So I grew up in an era of just, well, the Gulf War. That's only going to take a few days. And I remember asking him, I was like, what's going on over there? He's like, the way we're fighting, this is going to take us 20 years. And it was amazing that he ended up being almost to the year on it. He's like, this is going to take us the way we were doing this. This is going to take us 20 years. Is it as simple as that? Your experience was that leadership has different things that they have to answer to, but that actually gets in the way of the most efficient way of executing these missions for guys that are on the ground.
- [93:06]
Ray Mendoza
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, correct. I mean, there's definitely a disconnection from the top and how and what decisions are being made for to the person who's executed on the ground. 100%. You can find examples of that in every major company. The person who's in, you know, in the trenches working, I'm sure they get a sense of like, the guy who runs this thing has no idea what's happening. And that's like the culture of it. Right. The why, again, we're getting, we're trying to get into the why. So, yeah, the why. I, I don't question it too much. I think you. I couldn't at the time. I, I can now. I can look back and say, okay, let's see. One, why it started. Two, why did we stay there so long? Could we have been out of there? Could have more people been saved? 100. Yes. Can't argue that. With the, the ROEs constant being changing, the restrictive ROEs, and it's all optics. Right. As a JTAC, we have some of the most accurate, like the amount of money we dump into our munitions and how accurate they are, and they're worried about collateral damage. You're like, but that's why we spend so much money on these damn munitions, why these contractors are getting all these money to design these awesome weapons, and we can't use them because optics. Because. So, you know, we bomb a school, there weren't any school children in it. But the optics is we bombed a school like, well, the insurgency took over the school. There weren't people in the school because they don't allow kids to go to. Women and little kids to go to school. So there's always any students there. That's like optics of things like that, where you're like, you know, and instead we end up throwing a main gun around through that thing and the building collapses anyways. But just because the optics of us dropping bombs on somebody looks so bad, where instead we just run it over with tanks, it's the same end result. It's just the optics like that. I guess dropping bombs from an airplane looks bad versus, like, sending a main gun around through it and collapsed, you know, thermal bare ground and collapsing. It doesn't. Doesn't make any sense. So, like, when you're on the ground, you're like that. They don't care that the school drop down. They just scared. They just care how it was dropped and the optics of it. So that's kind of like the sense that you get. The flip side of that is, you know, we're not animals, man. Like, we. There's a lot of things we did once you're there and you see that there's an insurgency, which. They're not local Iraqis. They're. It's called an insurgency for a reason. You know, they're. They search from other countries, and oftentimes, you know, they would force some guy who had a family, like, hey, you're gonna go plan an id. If you don't, we're gonna chop your wife's head off. So he does, and then we shoot him. We don't know. We don't know that the guy was forced to do that. He probably does not want to do that. 100. He doesn't. I know he doesn't. So there's, like, these, like, situations you start to discover. Get in. All right, cool. All right. So now that we know this, there's these. You start to discover that there's these. These people that need help. It doesn't make words or savior. And we're trying to, like, you know, show them to Jesus. And it's like. It's like, no, you do see that there. There's this insurgency that's coming in, and they're doing things A little boys and girls and women forcing, you know, men to do these things. And they're evil people. And we helped as many, you know, we would put on clinics for women that were beaten to death with kids that were taken advantage of since, you know, and we try to help them out because we have the money and we have the. The facilities to do it. So we would. Nobody told us to do that. That was just us contributing. We're. We're also living in their. Their. Their towns and their cities. And if. If we can help, we would. But simultaneously, there's a lot of evil people. And frankly, I don't think we killed enough of them. But. So I think that's how you. That's how you. I think, just not justify. But just. Yeah, selfish way. It's like, I think we're doing something good here and it may not last forever, which it didn't. ISIS came in, created the vacuum and then ISIS came in. But for the time we were there, I think for the. The bad stuff that was going on, some of the decisions you have to make on the ground, quick decisions too. Sometimes guys live with those. Guys have taken their lives for those decisions they made, and some can't live with them. You have to try to find some sort of good. And I think we did. You know, obviously you have your friends and things you do for each other, but we really, you know, there's a lot of effort that goes into helping the local people. It just never gets reported, but I've witnessed it. So in a lot of ways.
- [98:27]
Ryan Rosillo
What was it like for you the first time the guys from the team saw the movie, talked about it.
- [98:34]
Ray Mendoza
Oh, man, I was nervous. Yeah, that was like the first gate essentially had to go through. That was. And it was the most important one. I actually care less, but I do care. But, you know, some civilians, like, your movie sucks, whatever stop for you. So. But yeah, so they. Yeah, the guys who helped with it that did the interviews, but also some of the guys that were just in it at other ops. A lot of guys came to watch it and did. They liked it. The same kind of. Same reaction you had. A lot of people have is just super realistic, immersive. And Elliot was there as well. He watched it for the first time. It was like a rough edit. So the sound design wasn't what. What it was. Now, I mean, they say since I've seen a updated version, but at the time it was a pretty rough cut. But we all roll around Elliot, and we're just like, all right, man, you now and we all agree this is about as close as we're gonna get. So each guy was just like, yes. That's what it felt like. I felt I was represented well. So it's accurate as you can represent me. So as accurate as you can represent the event that day and in the spirit of it. You know, Alex says this a lot. If there was GoPros in this house, it wouldn't be exactly the same thing as a movie. But I felt, yeah, I was told, Elliot, like, hey, that's about as accurate as you're gonna get. So you. You now know what we know. Hopefully, that fills that gap in your memory as far as accurate, because it's gonna get. Most people don't get that.
- [100:19]
Ryan Rosillo
It was great seeing Elliot at the end, too. And look, man, I just. I know how hard it is. I know what it must feel like to have it be this personal and to complete something like this even once is an incredible accomplishment, man. So thanks for a great movie.
- [100:36]
Ray Mendoza
No, thanks, sir. Thanks for having me. Thanks for watching us and the support as well. Thank you.
- [100:43]
Ryan Rosillo
You want details?
- [100:44]
Kyle
Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [100:48]
Ryan Rosillo
What's up?
- [100:50]
Booker McFarland
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly.
- [100:55]
Kyle
Imagine, and best of all, kids, I am liquid.
- [100:59]
Booker McFarland
So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.
- [101:03]
Ryan Rosillo
The email address is lifeadvice rrmail.com we have Kyle back in the mix and Worgon here, too. So Ceruti is going to be out for a while now. So we're just, you know, whatever the lineup is, we're adjusting, and I feel like the Heat. I don't feel like the Miami Heat. Honestly, I should say it the other way around to do that against the Heat without Garland for a couple games. Cleveland just doesn't care at all. So, yeah, I feel like Cleveland right now. We're just going to whatever pieces we have we expect to dominate. It's good to see Kyle. How are you?
- [101:35]
Kyle
I'm great. Rested, rejuvenated, feeling awesome. Crown jewel was perfect. Spring just started when I stepped off the plane. It was awesome.
- [101:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Real spring?
- [101:44]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [101:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow. That's great. How long were you gone? Two weeks.
- [101:48]
Kyle
Yeah, two weeks.
- [101:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Two weeks. And we didn't even check in with you once? Yeah.
- [101:54]
Kyle
I was like, you know, does she miss me? Does she? I guess she doesn't miss me. I don't know. I was like, I'll just check in when I get back.
- [102:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I don't know. I think it's important if you have time off to actually give you. I know it's super easy to jump on a zoom and. And do 20 minutes of life advice, and we've certainly done it in the past, but I don't know, I. I just feel like if you're off. I see. I don't want to say that because there could be another time where we do ask you to come.
- [102:17]
Kyle
Don't commit to that.
- [102:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you're right. I don't want to commit to it. But when Ceruti brought it up, I was like, let's just. I think we'll be fine and we'll just see how it goes. I was hoping maybe there'd just be a Wargon Rosillo special at some point, but just.
- [102:32]
Booker McFarland
What?
- [102:32]
Kyle
Like it all. It worked out that no one was around and it's just. We all get to know Worgon a little more.
- [102:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Wait a minute, Wargon? Did we have one with just you and I or.
- [102:40]
Worgon
No, I don't think that ever happened. I think Serie hopped in when Kyle was out.
- [102:45]
Kyle
I gotta say, I like the three box a lot more than the two box.
- [102:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. Yeah. There wasn't just a War gun because I think I was wondering as it was mapping out, like, who was going to be around. I'm like, I'm doing it. I mean, obviously we'll give it a shot. And of course, War Gun, I think is more than capable. I just think the idea of Worgon and I hanging out for 20 plus minutes, just. Just the two of us. I don't know if I'm ready for that. I'm not saying I don't want to do it. I just don't know if I'm ready for it.
- [103:11]
Worgon
I don't know what would happen in that. In those 20 minutes.
- [103:13]
Kyle
Well, it would be. I wonder what would happen with the awkward silence. Would you ask him like a loaded question? And he's just like, nope. We're like, all right.
- [103:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right. I mean, all. All possibilities. I mean, we did get. Maybe I'll read this one because I did flag it when it gets sent to me because are we going to.
- [103:37]
Kyle
Save a little time to talk about your draft somewhere in this? I just. I was unplugged and think Wargon was out. So we neither of us really know what happened with you guys. Your little draft party.
- [103:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that was happening. No, McShay wasn't going to ask me to do any of that stuff. Actually, there was no way to even do it. But I got a call during the week we did a live show at my house, McShay, Steve Mensch, and it was just a live broadcast to wrap up kind of the last few rounds, but then cover everything. And so McShay had asked me over a month ago, and I am really bad with long term scheduling. I mean, I'm a Hall of Famer when it comes to just being absolute dog at the process, to the point where I end up saying no to stuff that I probably would be able to go to or would want to go to, but I'm just so afraid of, like, look, everything changes. Like, sometimes I'll wake up and think I know exactly what my day will be and then it'll be something entirely different. So when somebody says like, hey, can you do this? Be like, I don't know. I don't know if I can or can't. So if I commit to it and then tell you I have to cancel, so I'm better off just telling you I can't even do it. So McShay, because we're so close and I wanted to try to help with the draft a month ago, he was like, will you do this live show? And I said, you know what, fine. But I thought it was going to be a bit more straightforward, just like, hey, we're going to tape something at your house and we're in LA and it's not that big of a deal. So as the week starts to work itself out towards that Saturday, I realized I'd committed to Fish on Friday and that there were three playoff games on Friday that I was going to have to catch up on while there were four more on Saturday, knowing that there were four more on Sunday, and then we go live with Bill and I, so, you know, this time of year is just what the job is. And so for me to say yes to Fish, which I normally would have said no to because of the playoff games, then I get a call from one of our behind the scenes guys being like, we need to show up. Yeah. They were like, are, are we going to have parking? What is the elevator access? We have a couple cams, lights, sound. And I'm like, what the fuck are we doing? Film.
- [105:43]
Kyle
I did see a photo. I was like, wow, there's a lot of shit in his living room. There's good thing he didn't have to move much.
- [105:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Right? So I. I'll admit, I started mfing myself. There was no one else that I was mad at except for me just sitting there for the couple days of the realization of, why would you have said yes to this. Knowing that it's a brutal time of the year. And on top of everything else, like, I thought I was doing myself, like, as the last. I'd say year or so. I'm trying to say yes to more stuff that I just defaulted to no one, always, because of the job. Not to say, oh, I work so hard, all that kind of stuff. I just. I really am like, hey, man, find a way to get more stuff done that has nothing to do with work because, you know, the. The years are flying by here, so get some more experiences going.
- [106:35]
Kyle
Have you considered breaking your day into three days like that guy?
- [106:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, no, that's. I can't tell if those are. When I see those videos I get anymore. Who knows? Yeah, Right.
- [106:49]
Kyle
Anymore.
- [106:49]
Ryan Rosillo
What's a skit? Is it not? I saw some French teacher beat up three kids, and I'm like, this guy's a badass. And I was like, I think this is fake. So anyway, yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot, and it was great. Show was great. I had a lot of fun. Everybody behind the scenes. I hadn't worked with a lot. They were just awesome. Efficient. Right on it. Showed up with a dozen donuts, you know, because they knew. I think everybody had a.
- [107:14]
Kyle
Knew you weren't putting shit out.
- [107:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I think he knew. It felt a bit like they were like, deep down, Rosulo may absolutely regret that he said yes to this. So. And I wanted to be like, look, now that I understand what it is, the show is the show. Let's just have a great show. But I was. I was spent. And then Fish was like, that's about the tamest fish show imaginable. Because the whole time, I'm thinking about, like, I'm getting texts about your Sanders all night, like, hey, dude, I'm waiting on Piper. All right, not worried about this right now. So, yeah, a little recap. Do we have anything else to get to?
- [107:52]
Kyle
I don't think so.
- [107:53]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't think so either. Okay. Yeah, I. There's. Some people are concerned with the way I'm treating Worgon. I can't find the email.
- [108:04]
Worgon
Nice. Nice.
- [108:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Wargon, do you feel like you're being treated differently? Unfairly?
- [108:12]
Kyle
Like you're picking on them, like the soft jabs between us early on?
- [108:15]
Worgon
No, I kind of feel like I'm an adult and I can, like, do something if I feel that way.
- [108:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Good.
- [108:22]
Kyle
Spotify has great HR I've been to.
- [108:25]
Worgon
I only kind of feel like I'm an adult, though. Not a hundred percent.
- [108:28]
Ryan Rosillo
If it Becomes anything that's like on the cusp of hr. Could you just give me a heads up and then maybe we can work it out.
- [108:38]
Worgon
We'll just hash it out on my device.
- [108:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah, we'll just tape it. We'll make it a segment. Okay. All right. I can't, I can't seem to find it, but there were some people that were a little upset. Okay, somebody wants a fish check in. Maybe we'll make this quicker because I feel like we already sort of did it. Skipping stats to get right to a very important question. What the hell was Rosilla doing at a fish show? Last weekend I went to my first fish concert, or should I say experience at the Bowl, Hollywood bowl on Saturday, which is just an epic venue, man. I mean, every single time I get to see a concert there, I just kind of look around and appreciate like how special that place is. While I had an idea of what I was in for, it was still way more than what I expected. For those who've never been, you first walked through a parade of people dressed from the play Joseph in the multicolored co coat while seeing it, smelling every substance available. As you get settled in, the sun goes down. The experience begins. I found myself surrounded by a generation who only grew up with black and white television. Doing would only be described as a Caucasian rain dance. Black and white television is a bit aggressive, but I will admit I did look around. I was like, God damn, is this an old crowd? And then I went, you're not wicked young, dude. Anyway, as the air was filled with potpourri scented smoke, I found myself asking, what the hell does Rossillo do with these shows? Does he get a seat in the corner all the way by himself and people watch as he partake in channeling the weather and the leather skinned fishies? I don't know about that. Yeah. Or does he simply lock in on the 25 minute vibe sessions? I would love to hear what draws into these shows and how he experiences the carnival that takes place. Also, exiting the show and seeing a mile long flea market of people pedaling ice cold balloons of nitrous was also a first time experience for me. Last thing for Friday feedback, you should consider doing a Wargon deep dive session. I don't know, I think, I think everything's on the table with Waron. Yeah, look, my first show was in 1992. I was in high school. I've told the story before, but I, you know, when I came back at that point I, I was, I guess considered cool. In high school. And then I came back, and, you know, it's pretty typical high school question. Like, I was. I was like this outlier because I was like, the first guy that went to a fish show, right? Like, oh, my God, you know, went to fish show. So we're kicking it, and guys are like, how up did you get? You know, because what you care about. Although you'd be shocked at how much later in life people will still ask the same question, even though when you're a teenager, you're thinking, like, this must go away at some point.
- [111:05]
Kyle
Definitely more cachet than when you're younger.
- [111:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right. Like, did you hear about how screwed up Fill in the blanket concert? Yeah. Guy's awesome. I didn't even drink anything. I mean, granted, it wasn't even legal, dude. So that's its own topic. But, yeah, I didn't. I didn't even want to drink. I was just, like, I was into it. And granted, because I worked in a restaurant and I had access to music that I would have never had access to because of chefs. Like, whatever you want to say about chefs. And I think there's a lot of interactions with chefs that later on in life, I'm like, oh, wait, that's what that guy was all about. But at the time, you don't realize. But they're really good for opening up the doors to music. And I do just absolutely love music. I have a pretty wide variety of tastes, but.
- [111:50]
Kyle
And insults sometimes. Creative. I never heard that one before.
- [111:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, chefs.
- [111:56]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [111:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, yeah. I mean, I could do an hour on Chefs in a Kitchen, and I'm glad I did it, and I'm glad that I had the experience, and I'm also pretty happy that that ended up not being what I wanted to do. But good for you if. If that's your deal. It's just a different working environment. I mean, we talked about the construction working environment, but a kitchen is its own thing. It's just hard to explain unless you've worked in a kitchen. But, yeah, when it came to the music and I would hear stuff and being like, what is this? What is this? And at that age, I'm super impressionable. And so, yeah, I think there's certain music that all of us have. If you really love music, that the first time you hear it and you just start thinking about things, you're just so inspired, because, again, I think it's kind of cool. Even though you are super impressionable about everything at that age, like, there are things that is cool to be impressionable about. So fish Was definitely one of those things. But then when I got to Vermont, it was more like, wow, you guys really like them. Sure. I almost felt like I wasn't. I wasn't. I was like, I do not aspire to be this into them. Even though I was still very much into the music. Saw him a bunch of times, but not, like a staggering amount of times. So for them to get back together and then to get to see them three times in the last year and a half or so, I just enjoy it. And so I thought Friday was a fun show. But, yeah, if you want to make fun of it, I'm not going to argue with you about it. But I think the important thing, as you get older and I've kind of felt this, like, why would I care if something's fairly harmless? If something. If people enjoy it? Like, why. Why would I care? Why would you care? Like, you can make fun of a ton of it. And, yeah, the dancing isn't great, and it might be the whitest thing you could go to. Like, Van texted me about Shador on Friday, and I was like, hey, I'm at the fish show. Where are you sitting? And he liked that one a lot. Uh, so, yeah, man, the nitrous is a little weird.
- [113:50]
Kyle
I mean, I've been around all types of stuff. You know, I could. I could identify certain things by smells that are just weed, you know? Uh, but I gotta say, there's something jarring about seeing, like, the can of whatever. I. I consider myself pretty liberal, and I'm not, like, doesn't upset me, but it certainly throws me off. It's just like a new thing. I don't know.
- [114:10]
Ryan Rosillo
What is your experience? You guys have any experience with nitrous?
- [114:13]
Kyle
No.
- [114:14]
Ryan Rosillo
No, not at all.
- [114:16]
Kyle
There was an energy drink that went out that came out that was like. No, remember the. The orange bottle? And I thought that was pretty cool. Paid for that a couple times, but that was. That's about as close as I ever got.
- [114:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Wasn't that a little bit more Fast and the Furious than, say, fish? Yeah. Yeah, that's some marketing right there. Like, hey, if we can figure out a way to just translate that button that dudes get to hit on their car. Did you know anyone in your town that had nitrous in their car? Kyle.
- [114:45]
Kyle
It was like one of those rumors. Things like, my cousin's got it.
- [114:47]
Ryan Rosillo
It's like, sure, all right.
- [114:50]
Kyle
My girlfriend goes to another school.
- [114:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, okay, yeah, Worgon. Any car or balloon, nitrous experience.
- [114:59]
Worgon
Literally nothing.
- [115:01]
Kyle
Yeah, you don't see Anything walking through the park these days?
- [115:05]
Worgon
Just the people on the E bikes, dude. Hate them. Can't stand them.
- [115:08]
Kyle
Okay.
- [115:09]
Worgon
Take that shit somewhere else.
- [115:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Not having it. Yeah. Look, I. I couldn't believe the balloon thing, because I remember when it was in the mix and it was. It was kind of like, you know, hey, a guy's got a tank or guy selling balloons or whatever, nobody really cared, but they still sort of cared. And then walk into the Hollywood Bowl. Walking up, I was like, oh, this is just a free for all. And I'll admit, too, like, I. It's just weird when you get older and you're looking around, you're like, oh, my God, look how old these people are. And you're like, well, well, news flash, buddy. Yeah, right. I just appreciated people were firing darts because it's a smoking generation. Like, I haven't seen this many smokers in one place since the bull fights. So I was like, this is. This is just. A lot of. It was like, okay, that makes a lot of sense because, you know, everybody from my generation on, you know, still, I don't. They're not smoking now, but for fish, you know, you get a few in you and you're like, hey, you know what? Let me try one of those.
- [116:13]
Kyle
One of those yellow American spirits. That's going to take me 10 minutes.
- [116:17]
Ryan Rosillo
So I had two MC Ultras. And I'll admit that probably during what's going through your mind? Set two, I yawned a couple times. So. Yeah. But Karini, in the light, you know, there was some stuff happening there. Piper. Piper brought me back to life. So there you go.
- [116:43]
Kyle
Okay, cool, man.
- [116:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Thanks. Thanks, Kyle.
- [116:46]
Kyle
Glad you got out there. Such a busy weekend.
- [116:49]
Ryan Rosillo
And then I. I'll admit that when I woke up the next morning was like, how are you going to get all this shit done? You haven't even watched Lakers. Timberwolves yet. And you love the Timberwolves, so. Okay, slow start. Almost feels like a Monday pace right now.
- [117:10]
Kyle
All right, I'll do better.
- [117:11]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I'm talking about myself right now. But do you have any experience with the Juggalos? Kyle, have I asked you about this before?
- [117:18]
Kyle
You keep doing this. Should I stop wearing black? I've been trying to figure out what it is that's like. Got that in your head?
- [117:25]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't think it's a crazy question.
- [117:26]
Kyle
I. Listen, I heard. There was one song that I heard back in the day, and I was like, that's kind of crazy. And I think I laughed because they were kind of funny in it, but it Was. I don't know. It's kind of unsettling music to me. But yes, you've asked this. I think we're probably up to three strikes at this point, so I don't know.
- [117:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I've asked a couple times. I think I saw a clip of it the other day and I was like, see, you're. You're too mature now. But I think a few years ago I said if I give you all expenses paid per diem, I'll even. You hit me with an hourly. You know, I'll just pay a. Will you go and document? I don't know if I get a weekend of you at the gathering, but I'm tempted. I'm really tempted. There's got to be a number. There's going to be a number and you could be a correspondent for us.
- [118:20]
Kyle
Yeah, maybe if I could bring like one of my friends.
- [118:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Just actually connect to, I think seeing your crew in action. I would hope you'd spring for that.
- [118:30]
Kyle
All right, good. If you spring for that, then we could talk about it.
- [118:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Could you tell your wife like, hey, it's content, it's for the show.
- [118:37]
Kyle
Yeah, Ryan made me do it. I blame you for stuff like that all the time. Totally fine.
- [118:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Worgon any interest if Kyle doesn't want to take this?
- [118:45]
Worgon
Not even sure what we're talking about.
- [118:48]
Kyle
That's maybe better.
- [118:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, better. A little more in our lane here. A girlfriend sleeping with her boss. 32510 bench 315 comp Poor man's Jerry she sting Love the she sting shout outs. About a week ago my girlfriend photo attached revealed to me she's been seeing and sleeping with her 40ish year old boss for the past two months. A little bit of backstory. We started dating in February of 23 after I came out of divorce where said ex wife cheated on me as well as got pregnant with the same guy. Sure know how to pick him. Fast forward to now. The most recent ex and I were initially up and down made it Official fall of 23. So they started dating February 23rd. Official fall of 23. Had a brief breakup in there between about two months but have been together since last summer. Summer In December of last year I made the very idiotic mistake of having a very drunk one night stand with a woman. Told my girlfriend and was honest. It ate me up as you can imagine. Made me and still feel horrible as I should at that moment I got a second chance. I do everything I can to try to redeem myself. In February I began to notice a Shift and something was off. Little did I know what the was actually happening. Details aside, the why had so many variables quote, it just happened. We have a lot of common. I did it out of spite. She told me she's looking for a new job and currently it is no longer occurring, but we aren't together. So she is free, like me, to do what she wants. I know this is a hard situation to come back from because obviously you don't continue to do what she did if there isn't an emotional connection, which she does have feelings, but not in love or wants to be with a guy. She's told me she still wants to be with me, sees a future with me and wants a life together. And I feel the same same. In the end, I have no fucking clue what to do and what to believe. And I realized that the weight that this isn't a random person, but her boss, she sees him every day, has feelings, and so that connection doesn't stop overnight. What do you guys think I need to do? Trying to do no contact, but that's going about as well as KD in Phoenix. I want to ultimately be with her, but am I an idiot to do so? Am I naive to think this can be salvaged? Should I just leave it and move on? Truly just a lost guy. Appreciate the show as always. And he sent a picture of her and she is hot.
- [121:01]
Kyle
So they are not together. That's the part they're not together grasping right now. Think maybe stay that way for a while.
- [121:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, it sounds like you've got a nice little backstory to a main character in a TV show here. I mean, look, we don't know you, so that goes without saying. I would wonder, do you not want to get back to together with her for the wrong reasons? Right. Would the wrong reasons be. Would you be judged? Do people in your circle know this? Do your friends? Do your family know the deal? You know, what is it about her that makes you think this and all work out? Because I would tell you that is some incredible maturity. If everyone involved here can all get past all of this stuff and move on, do you have a pattern of always having shit going on in your relationships? Now, maybe you just shared two with us that don't seem to be great, but are you attracted to chaos? Are you always in relationships where there just always seems to be something that is disruptive? Right. How bad is the trust going to be? Because I think even if you get through this and make promises to each other, human nature is that you're still always going to kind of wonder a little bit. And because of what you've done, she's still going to try to wonder a bit. And I don't. You know, it's pretty childish to be like, hey, you did it. So I'm going to do it. But I can at least understand getting there. So I think what you really have to do is figure out, like, what it is about her that makes you think that this can still work. What is it about your pattern and who you spend your time with, if it's not just the two that you shared with us? But this also happens because you may have grown up in a situation where you think chaos is kind of normal. So then when you're in a relationship and it's chaotic, it's ups and downs, you're taking breaks, and you get back together and all this, like, it's amazing what'll happen once you're in a healthy relationship. You're like, oh, this doesn't have to be insane. Like, you know, So I. I'm a little concerned that maybe all of these challenges in relationships are normal for you and you think it's kind of normal, so you're expected to just get back together because this is. This is how some of these toxic relationships work. So, again, credit to you if you can get through the whole thing. So I'm not going to sit here and say, hey, no way, dude, she cheated on you, because you cheated on her, too. And it's not even about taking sides. It's just sometimes you can have two. I'm not saying you're broken, but I'll use that term in a loose way, not specific to the email, but sometimes people that are kind of broken are so attracted to other broken people that they just kind of go through this cycle, and then the next thing you know, it's like years before they have any clarity whatsoever. So I would be really like, if you're having these moments by yourself, what should I do? What should I do? Like, go over your own history, figure out what you're attracted to, and then understand, like, are you really going to get over this? Or if you rack together in the next bad stretch in eight months, does it, like, turn into Armageddon when you guys start letting these things fly back and forth? Because no one's ever going to forget when it's this serious.
- [124:34]
Kyle
Yeah. You mentioned a while back on this show, like, as you've gotten older, you're like, I'm starting. I can see how people navigate these complicated feelings when there's some Sort of infidelity. Because I think we had talked about it before. When you're younger, it's like, oh, she kissed another dude. That's it. I'm out. And then as you get older, you can sort of see how people like, well, all right, we're just gonna split everything in half. Whatever. You see as people get older, how. Maybe it's a little more complicated. Not as cut and dry where, you know, your high school girlfriend cheated on you, and you're just like, all right, well, never talking to her again or so. I think that's probably part of growing up.
- [125:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Jacket back.
- [125:08]
Kyle
Yeah. Right. But, yeah, I think you're.
- [125:12]
Ryan Rosillo
You're right.
- [125:12]
Kyle
You just have to ask yourself a couple of these questions, right? I mean, it's. It doesn't sound like they haven't been dating that long. It's not like you're moving out and looking for a new apartment. So you're like, if we get back together and this happens again, like, you just. You wonder when you're, like, setting up a foundation of a life, and you're like, God, is this. You know, is this gonna get washed away by the ocean? How close to the beach are we? I don't know, but. And then also, like. Like you said with your family, it's like, is your mom gonna have a couple of Sangrias on the 4th of July and it's gonna come up? You know what I mean? Who knows how many people know? Do they know you did the bad thing, or do they just know she did the bad thing? Is this. Is this all shit that is gonna amount to a happy life? So. I don't know. I think maybe I would. The band aids kind of ripped off your. He's saying he's trying not to contact her. I think the longer you do something, the easier. That's hard, the easier it will become. That's what everyone says about running and lifting weights and everything. So maybe. Maybe another month of this, you might feel differently.
- [126:07]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know.
- [126:07]
Kyle
I just feel like it doesn't sound like you have a solid foundation, and it sounded like you weren't together long enough that you're deciding who gets dogs and cars and who gets to stay in a place. So I don't know. I think there's totally someone that you can enter into a relationship with where there isn't ammo on either side. Well, you did this, and you could just have a clean, lean slate and hope for the best. I don't know if you can hope for the best anymore when you Both are thinking like this, so I don't know.
- [126:31]
Worgon
Yeah, I think you got to pull the cord on this one. It's done. Like, you've both cheated on each other. Your adults sort of move on. Like you said. It's just. It's only gonna get easier. Weird pattern, though, that you've gotten cheated on two times in a row. Maybe got to look inward on that one. I don't know.
- [126:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Whoa.
- [126:48]
Worgon
Yeah.
- [126:49]
Ryan Rosillo
You ever been cheated on, Wargon?
- [126:51]
Worgon
No. Thank God.
- [126:53]
Ryan Rosillo
That's my guy.
- [126:58]
Worgon
Not that I know of.
- [127:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Fair. Fair addendum. Okay, couples massage. What is the right matchup? This is good. Monster fan of the show. Wow.
- [127:11]
Kyle
I've had this thought. I don't even know what the email is, but I think I've had this thought as well.
- [127:16]
Ryan Rosillo
I was at the 23 live show in New York City. Had an absolute blast. Please do another one in New York.
- [127:21]
Ray Mendoza
That.
- [127:21]
Kyle
That was the best one, maybe one of the best ones, but in my opinion, it was the best one.
- [127:27]
Ryan Rosillo
That was an awesome show. The Chris Paul part of it was just. I couldn't have got better. Allison and Elizabeth also pronounced Elizabeth. Here we go. Please do another one in. Should you get up to the New York Athletic Club for pickup run while you're in town? A little worried about the hoops game right now, to be honest with the audience. For context, 26 years old, 62195 solid numbers in the weight room. Can throw up 225 for a few, but nothing crazy. Depending on the competition, my player comps can swing between Eric Dievendorf. This is the second Dievendorf shout out that we've gotten on the emails today. Dievendorf with some lava type takes on Shador Sanders not getting drafted earlier than the fifth round. And Nate Lubbock. I'm one of. Is it lubic or Lubbock? I forget Big East. I'm one of the better guys on the floor. I'm pulling confidently and spinning into traffic trying to get to the rack. If not, I'm setting hard screens, moving the rock, crashing the glass and yelling. Good look After a miss to keep morale high. Good look.
- [128:30]
Kyle
I like this lean into the comp here.
- [128:32]
Ryan Rosillo
I didn't love how long this was taking until we get the good look part of it. So now I'm all the way back in. Here's the situation my girlfriend gifted me. I guess both of us. Smart move with a spa day just outside of New York City. High end place, great amenities. The package she got included a couple's massage for us, which I Had never done before. Agreed. By man who brings us in the massage room, where he and a woman are standing next to massage tables. They each subtly indicated which bed they'd be working on. Kind of you pick who goes where situation. My girlfriend casually mentioned it might be weird if I had the male masseuse, but I started thinking masseuse. Just the masseuse industry in general. If any of you are listening, you must be like, hey, are you guys still doing this? Like, you can't have a dude massage you. But again, when I did a couple's massage, I picked the girl too. So I don't know. I don't have to tell you. They each subtly indicated which bed they'd be working on. We already covered that. But I started thinking, would it be weirder if the woman. If I had the woman and she had the guy, and I'm just lying there four feet away with my head in the donut pillow. So I zagged. I ended up going with a man figuring. Man figuring it might make more sense, the context. But now I'm second guessing the whole read of the situation. What's the right call here? Is there a known strategy for couples massage matchups? Did I overthink the switch or make the right assignment? Would love your take. Thanks again. Yeah, I mean, was this a bad switch? Like, I get the point if we're all being childish about this whole thing. It's like, wouldn't I rather have a woman giving me massage than a dude? Right? Like, I don't think I have to explain that much. But if you're right next to your gal and Sven is over there just working the moisturizer from that little hip pack pump thing that they have. Just dangles.
- [130:15]
Kyle
Yeah. He didn't describe the physique of the male masseuse. That might influence me a little bit.
- [130:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. That guy looks like the dude from White Lotus. I'm probably. Yeah, Yeah. I don't like, where are you in relationship? Like the other emailer. Who fucking knows? Right?
- [130:30]
Kyle
Or so they'd be like, hey, so who's your team? Right?
- [130:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right. Like I took somebody on a date for a surf lesson, and the next thing you know, this Brazilian surf coach is getting her phone number at the end of it. You know, is this a hypothetical or are you. Oh, oh, no, this is true. Yeah, no. Oh, no. I was sitting there, I was like, are you serious, dude? So I don't know, sometimes, you know, the ball community, we understand this. Or shaved head. It's like, you just assume that it's this fragile. Just gonna do this right in front of me. Anyway, what do you got, Wargon?
- [131:03]
Worgon
I think I'd go, man. You know, if I'm getting a massage, I want, like, the extra force, you know?
- [131:09]
Kyle
I had that thought as well.
- [131:10]
Worgon
I got those big muscles. They got to get through them all, you know?
- [131:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Runner's body.
- [131:14]
Worgon
There you go.
- [131:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [131:16]
Kyle
It's not the same. I told you. I went to a chiropractor, and this guy was tiny, and I just could tell he wasn't getting around me the way he needed to. And I think he was, like, hurting me. And then he basically just told me I was good. And I was like, now I don't really don't feel any better. He's like, no, no, you are. Look, see, you were slanted before. Now you're not. I was like, no, I. I don't think any of this worked.
- [131:35]
Worgon
It's like, if you're paying for the service, you want the best job possible.
- [131:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [131:39]
Kyle
And he's not going to, you know, masseuse probably isn't going to be realigning me, but, you know.
- [131:44]
Ray Mendoza
Big boy. Yeah.
- [131:45]
Kyle
All the massages I get are for my tiny wife. I really wonder what it's like. Haven't been picked up off the ground in a while. Wonder what that's like. I'm just saying maybe it's worth it. I think I like it. If she also though you went against her, she was like, it might be weird if you got the dude. Maybe you just opened up. She's like, oh, this guy's open to things. Because you went and took the dude after. She said, maybe it's weird for you. So maybe that was the right move on a couple of levels. He's like. He's totally secure.
- [132:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Have either of you guys ever done the couples massage?
- [132:21]
Kyle
No. Never.
- [132:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Never.
- [132:22]
Worgon
Got like. I've done like a facial.
- [132:25]
Ryan Rosillo
I need more. I need more context.
- [132:29]
Booker McFarland
We were in.
- [132:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Where were we?
- [132:30]
Worgon
Puerto Rico, I guess. Dominican Republic. Just, like shoulder massage stuff on the face. I was so burnt. Hurt so bad. Bad decision.
- [132:40]
Kyle
Like chemicals, we're talking.
- [132:42]
Worgon
No, like sun. Oh, sunburnt.
- [132:44]
Ryan Rosillo
You were burnt prior or the facial?
- [132:47]
Worgon
I thought they were gonna see the burn and be like, a little gentler.
- [132:50]
Ryan Rosillo
No, no. Couple spatial interesting. Yeah. The couple's massage. Depending on where you go, it is pretty awkward. And it also depends on where you were at in the relationship. When both masseuse leave and, like, feel free to enjoy the serenity of. Of our room as we pour a hot bath for you.
- [133:16]
Worgon
I do love a good spa, though. Those are nice.
- [133:18]
Ryan Rosillo
You have 15 minutes. You're like, anyway, let your imagination run wild with that one. All right. Thanks to Wargon. Thanks to Kyle Seruti. You know, he'll check in again. He's just watching. He's got one more magic game to go, I guess. What I mean, come on, they can't score. Jonathan Frias, want to thank him as well, because I know we had. I just didn't want to make sure I get all the credits right here. Check out our podcast on the Spotify app and as well, all of our stuff up on YouTube. The Ryan Rosula podcast. Run your Spotify.
- [134:00]
Worgon
They were gonna name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it. So they named me Michael. Jared.
- [134:26]
Ryan Rosillo
21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18+ and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg forward/chatincenetic or visit mdgamblinghelp.org. in Maryland, hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema. Org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.