Ohio State Is the Champ: The Buckeyes' Unprecedented Run and Ryan Day’s Redemption. Plus, Ben Johnson to the Bears With David Pollack.

Summary

The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Episode: Ohio State Is the Champ: The Buckeyes' Unprecedented Run and Ryan Day’s Redemption. Plus, Ben Johnson to the Bears With David Pollack
Release Date: January 21, 2025

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1. Ohio State's Historic Championship Victory

The episode kicks off with an enthusiastic celebration of Ohio State University (OSU) clinching the national championship for the 24th season, culminating in a remarkable victory in 2025. The hosts delve into the significance of this achievement, highlighting the Buckeyes' dominance and the factors contributing to their success.

Notable Quote:
David Pollock [00:10]: "Ohio State fans, you are national champions. It's got to be fun."

2. Detailed Game Breakdown

The hosts provide an in-depth analysis of the championship game between Ohio State and Notre Dame. They dissect key plays, player performances, and strategic decisions that led to OSU's overwhelming 31-23 victory.

• First Drive Struggles: OSU's initial drive was hampered by multiple conversions (third and fourth downs) and extensive commercial breaks, setting a sluggish tone for the game. The hosts express skepticism about the game’s outcome due to these early challenges.

  Notable Quote:
  Ryan Rosillo [05:00]: "Could tonight be one of those special nights? Nope."

• Momentum Shift: After the first drive, OSU surged ahead with a dominant performance, outgaining Notre Dame 321 to 38 yards over the next nine possessions. The increased pressure from OSU’s defense was a pivotal factor.

  Notable Quote:
  David Pollock [07:38]: "Ohio State was getting pressure with four..."

• Quarterback Performance: Riley Leonard's struggles in extending plays and throwing deep pass attempts are critiqued. The hosts discuss how Leonard's limitations were exploited by OSU’s defense, particularly in the pocket.

  Notable Quote:
  Kyle [10:15]: "Riley Leonard does not throw deep shots. He's a terrific story, but he's not that guy."

3. Ryan Day’s Coaching Mastery and Redemption

A significant portion of the discussion centers around OSU's head coach, Ryan Day. The hosts applaud his strategic adjustments and leadership, which have elevated his legacy despite past challenges.

• Win Percentage and Legacy: Ryan Day boasts an impressive 87.5% winning percentage, placing him second only to Walter Camp in the history of the sport. His ability to consistently lead his teams to top ranks is highlighted as a testament to his coaching prowess.

  Notable Quote:
  Kyle [16:43]: "He's got his national championship. His teams have been ranked at number two in the country at some point."

• Redemption Arc: The hosts describe Day's career as a Hollywood-worthy redemption arc, celebrating his achievements and the respect he's garnered within the college football community.

  Notable Quote:
  Kyle [24:22]: "He hired Chip Kelly and completed a redemption arc that Hollywood wouldn't believe."

4. Strategic Play Calling and Defensive Exploitation

The analysis extends to tactical aspects of the game, focusing on OSU's defensive strategies and their ability to capitalize on Notre Dame's weaknesses.

• Cornerback Vulnerability: OSU identified a significant weakness in Notre Dame's cornerback performance, leveraging Jeremiah Smith's exceptional skills to secure crucial touchdowns.

  Notable Quote:
  Kyle [34:02]: "Jeremiah Smith’s off the ball, he runs a subtle, perfect route..."

• Fourth Down Decisions: The hosts critique Notre Dame's offensive choices, particularly their field goal attempt on fourth and nine, questioning the rationale behind the decision given the defensive pressure from OSU.

  Notable Quote:
  Kyle [26:28]: "Why would you kick it and then be down two scores?"

5. Ohio State's Offensive Evolution

Ryan Day's tenure is also credited with transforming OSU's offense. The shift from a zone scheme to a more simplified, counter-based approach allowed players like Jeremiah Smith to thrive, showcasing the adaptability and innovation of the coaching staff.

Notable Quote:
Kyle [31:01]: "Ohio State lost their center, their tackle, their best two linemen. They ran counter... it completely unlocked him."

6. Ben Johnson Joins the Chicago Bears

In addition to the championship discussion, the episode covers the significant move of Ben Johnson joining the Chicago Bears. This transition is explored in the context of NFL team strategies and the potential impact on the Bears' defensive lineup.

Notable Quote:
David Pollock [38:00]: "Ben Johnson gets brought in, right? And he's going to be the head coach of the Bears."

7. Guest Conversation with David Pollock

Former Notre Dame player David Pollock joins the podcast to provide expert insights into the championship game and broader college football dynamics. Their conversation touches on:

• Talent Discrepancy: Pollock emphasizes the vast talent gap between OSU and Notre Dame, attributing OSU's success to their superior physical and strategic capabilities.

  Notable Quote:
  David Pollock [19:28]: "The talent discrepancy is so great on one side compared to the other."

• Coaching Decisions: They discuss Ryan Day's play-calling, particularly his aggressive strategies during critical game moments, and how these decisions ultimately led to OSU's triumph.

  Notable Quote:
  Kyle [29:23]: "I love Freeman all year long. I love his physicality, I love his mentality."

8. Life Advice and Audience Emails

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts engage in a life advice segment, addressing listener emails that range from relationship struggles to personal challenges.

• Handling Relationship Breakups: One prominent email from a listener details a tumultuous breakup with a high school sweetheart, seeking advice on moving forward after being ghosted and dealing with unresolved feelings.

  Notable Quote:
  David Pollock [67:55]: "It's not up to you to decide what he should or shouldn't be doing based on the help that he needs."

• Financial Planning Tips: Another listener seeks guidance on managing college funds versus paying down credit card debt, with the hosts providing balanced financial advice.

  Notable Quote:
  David Pollock [62:50]: "If you're paying 20 plus percent to carry credit card debt, you're basically paying a fee to carry debt on that number."

9. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Features

The episode concludes with the hosts teasing upcoming special editions of the podcast, including a children-only edition, and encouraging listeners to subscribe and engage with their content across platforms.

Notable Quote:
Saruti [60:48]: "It's the best picture of Kyle I've ever seen."

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Key Takeaways:

• Ohio State’s Dominance: OSU's unprecedented run to the national championship underscores their strategic excellence and athlete performance under Ryan Day's leadership.

• Ryan Day’s Legacy: Day's coaching acumen and ability to adapt his offensive schemes have solidified his status as one of the top coaches in college football history.

• Game Strategy Insights: The detailed breakdown of the championship game highlights the critical decisions and moments that defined the outcome, emphasizing the importance of defensive pressure and offensive adaptability.

• Ben Johnson’s NFL Move: The addition of Ben Johnson to the Chicago Bears represents a significant shift in NFL defensive strategies, potentially altering team dynamics.

• Personal Development: The life advice segment provides valuable guidance on navigating complex personal relationships and financial decisions, reflecting the podcast's commitment to addressing diverse listener concerns.

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Resources and Further Listening:

• Follow the Podcast: Subscribe to "The Ryen Russillo Podcast" on YouTube and other streaming platforms to stay updated with the latest episodes.

• Life Advice Submissions: For personalized advice, visit [e-mail].

• Upcoming Episodes: Stay tuned for the special children-only edition airing on Wednesday and another special edition on Tuesday.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections as per the podcast guidelines.

Transcript

[Ryan Rosillo]

Foreign.

[David Pollock]

Ohio State's your national champs for the 24th season as we finish up in 25. What does it mean for Ryan Day? What's up with that field goal and everything else with David Pollock? We're going to play. Could you beat up this former teammate as well? And we've got a really good life advice for you today. This episode of the Ryan Resilla Podcast is presented by State Farm. Bring home a win with an affordable price when you bundle home and auto with the personal price plan. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Unstoppable. All you wrestling fans are in for a real treat on this one. See the true story of Anthony Robles in Unstoppable, a new film from Amazon MGM Studios and director William Goldenberg about Anthony's journey to beat the odds and become a national wrestling champion. This one has that classic sports movie feel with incredible performances from Jerrell Jerome alongside Jennifer Lopez as his mother, whose unwavering support helps Anthony overcome the odds. Plus an all star ensemble cast including Don Cheadle, Michael Pena and Bobby Cannavale. Watch Unstoppable now exclusively on Amazon Prime Video. Ohio State fans, you are national champions. It's got to be fun. Do you still order the Sports Illustrated stuff? The dvd, the book, the commemorative book? You guys look at those a lot. Do you have a Red Sox one from 2013? I think I do. Anyway. How about that first drive that wasn't very much fun. Buckeyes first drive, 945, Riley Leonard nine carries, converted, a third, a fourth, a third and another fourth down, seven zip. 18 plays, which meant 18 commercials in the second quarter and you're just like, man, man, is this actually going to happen? Because look, I have been talking about sports for a long time, over two years. And even when you're like, hey, look, like this doesn't feel like a game, nothing on paper tells me that this would be a game. Nothing. With the talent disparity and the momentum of what Ohio State has been doing against really good football teams, like, there's nothing that tells me, but is it that night? Is it going to be one of those special nights that brings us back all the time and for whatever but that 30 minute drive and how long it took to start this football game, you're sitting there and you're going, could tonight be one of those special nights? Nope. Then it was 31.7, 31 straight points for your Buckeyes. If you want to get creative with the math, if you take out the first drive and take the game from that point on Ohio State's first possession, the possession preceding the 7 nothing score for the Irish, Ohio State outgained Notre Dame 321 to 38 yards over the combined next nine possessions. Ohio State was getting pressure with four, which is like, if there's one thing you wish you could do as a football team, can we get pressure with 4? Because if you can get pressure with 4, you can do a lot of things. You're probably going to be a good football team. As the Giants if the undefeated Pats and Riley Leonard does not really stretch the field, or at least that was not the plan. He does not throw deep shots. He does not throw it outside the numbers. He's a terrific story, but he's not that guy. And you could see that when the game was kind of in the balance, it's like, well, there's just either not enough time to get those routes going or they're just never really even looking there. I'd imagine the secondary probably got bored during the stretch of the game for Ohio State. Will Howard started 13 to 13, felt like he could do whatever he wanted. It felt like Ohio State could call any play in the playbook. Chip Kelly could just be like, let's try this. Oh, that worked again. Because they have Jeremiah Smith, because they have Ibuka, they have Tate, they have Judkins, they have have Trayvon Henderson, who's just a nice redemption story because I remember the first time watching him as a freshman, you were like, up, They've got another one. And then it felt like he lost momentum. My guy, G Scott, we needed one more catch to go back to back with Ohio State parlays. We did not get that second catch, which I kind of knew, like, they got him early. I was like, here we go, it's the lock. But I like G Scott. Will Howard was 9 of 12 on third downs last night for the game. So it was kind of playing out the way I think most of us felt like it would play out. And by the way, Ohio State was not facing a ton of pressure from Notre Dame. They actually put up a graphic at one point of what Notre Dame does as far as their pressure rate throughout the season this year. And at the time they put it up in the game, they were at A zero percent pressure rate, which is really low. It's hard to do worse than that. And the funny thing is when they put it up, they actually got pressure for the first time on Will Howard and then he completed a pass to convert on third and seven for another third. Now how are some fight from the Irish? Makes sense. 10 plays, 75 yards, 31, 15. The two point conversion. Then Igbuka fumbles, penalties. Great House gets you right back at the doorstep of a score. Notre Dame first and goal at the eight. I want to go over a couple throws here. First down, Riley Leonard running because that's probably the thing they felt best about. That didn't work. Lost a yard. The second down throw to Mitchell Evans is a bad throw, like not even close. Then on third goal again at the nine, Riley Leonard throws it to Great House. It's incomplete. He was going to get blasted. If he even caught it. He was going to get blasted at the five yard line. So that leads us to the field goal attempt that everybody hated last night, which I understand, right? But whenever something like this happens, it's like, hey, is there a chance PFT is smarter than Marcus Freeman? Well, PFT did kick field goals, so maybe, maybe he is on this one. It's 925, they're down two scores. 3118, you're down two scores, right? That's what I saw on social media all night last night as they decided to do this. But let's, let's try to understand what Freeman was doing. So the two touchdowns are going to be tough enough. Although, hey, are you going to get it back down within the 10 yard line against Ohio State? I mean, you don't feel likely about it. So it's like, okay, what are our chances? But what are the chances of getting two two point conversions on top of the two touchdowns that you're going to get against Ohio State's defense? That is just horrifying to deal with down there on top of the two throws that you just saw from Riley Leonard that didn't make any sense whatsoever. And you're not running a keeper from nine yards out. I think Freeman saw those throws. I think he knew the chances of his talent separating in a short part of the field. He knew Ohio State's history. And then it's like, well, if I get the field goal, even though that sucks and it's 31 18, I don't need two two point conversions on top of the two touchdowns. And I really don't like my chances on fourth and nine against an Ohio State defense where when Texas was lined up at the 1 yard line, Texas looked hopeless. Texas down 2114. It's at the 1 yard line and you're like, yeah, I don't really like their chances. That seems insane. So look, I think sometimes it's not the math, it's knowing your team. So they missed the field goal, which made it even better, right? But they score again, they get the two point conversion and it leads to Ohio State facing third and 11. And Notre Dame sends all sorts of pressure, something they had struggled with all night long. Which leaves Jeremiah Smith one on one at the bottom of the screen against Gray, who's a terrific football player, but you saw it on tv, you like me probably going, oh, and Howard clearly sees it. And then it's a matter of is there any way you can get pressure there quick enough before the route develops to get 11 yards downfield passes six with Jeremiah Smith is not going to take a long time, especially when really all he has to do, you know how hard it is to cover, even like a mid receiver one on one when he knows what he's doing and the quarterback knows what he's doing. I despise those like high school football camp clips of some receiver lighting up a corner and then staring him down. It's like, oh cool, you ran an in route and beat the guy one on one. You're awesome. We'll see you at Middle Tennessee. No offense to Middle Tennessee. I just had to pick a non power for school. So look, they score again. It's 31, 23 the third and 11 right. He hits Jeremiah Smith 56 yards, the game is over. What I loved about this too is that Smith ran a just a really subtle, perfect route where you're freaked out if you're the corner to begin with. It's the best receiver in college football. He's a beast. When he caught the ball, it looked like he may not even ever go down. I've never seen a freshman I don't know that I've seen. Maybe, maybe I have. But just at least last night it's like, how does it look like it's physically unfair and he's the freshman, but he ran this subtle route where he just veers inside a little bit, which is going to give him more space to the sideline. It's also going to give Howard more space to throw, throw the football a wider lane to throw the football where if he just runs a straight go route down the sideline again, no one should be dumb enough to do that. Where he's using the out of bounds line against himself. But that was kind of the game. Even though there was a nice little momentum shift there. For Irish fans wondering is the impossible going to happen and is everyone in the state of Ohio going to hate Ryan Day forever? Well, that's not the case because it worked out for the Buckeyes. Leonard's a tough kid. Great story. He's not good enough to win this game straight up. You could say, hey, they opened it up. What took him so long? Well, you weren't down 24 points earlier. So it's a bit like the Carson Beck Alabama rule applying here. Did you get better or did you get desperate? And I think when teams are down, quarterbacks can look better. They can start getting some yardage. You can start saying, hey, where was this earlier? Well, you were afraid to do it earlier where it felt like the score was even. So now let's talk Ryan Day. Because I'm happy for Ryan Day. I'm happy for LeBron James, I'm happy for Indiana fans somehow still tweeting like the Cook islands during the UN summit last night. Days now. 70 and 10. 70 and 10. When you package it that way. He's got his national championship. His teams have been ranked at number two in the country at some point. In all six of his full seasons. His 875 winning percentage is the second best all time in the history of the sport. Minimum 80 games behind only Walter Camp. All time stuff on days resume and completing a redemption arc that Hollywood wouldn't believe. Can we stop saying that? All of us, the studio, they tell you to hit the bricks, kid. That script's not real. I just hate it whenever we. I'm saying it because I hate it. All right? So let's just stop saying it. But it is the best recovery we've ever seen in season. From a season low to the season high. The Michigan lost to where they're at now. And we'll never. We've never seen. We could in the future, but we've never seen anything like that because we've never had a team have the opportunity because we have a 12 team playoff. You already understand it, already talked about it just 24 hours ago. If you look at their talent, we knew it in August. We knew that the fundraisers were out, they were cranking it up. What's going to get more people to invest in the nil. And Columbus keep losing to that team in Ann Arbor. And it worked. Although now you're like, well, wait, they lost him again. Does that mean that more people are. I don't know. I don't know. It doesn't matter. They just won a championship last night. But I think there's a talent element to it. Where you go, okay, if we talked about this team in August and this roster they put together and how pissed they are they were just this, this makes sense from a talent standpoint. The right team won the national championship last year. Think about what they just did. They beat Tennessee, they beat Oregon, they beat Texas, they beat Notre Dame. Four straight games. The number one, the number five, the number seven, and the number nine teams in the country for a combined score, 145 to 75. That is all time stuff. It's also all time stuff because nobody else has had to play that many games. The way the seating worked out, the way the bracket worked out, it was so stupid that they were all on that side and they were tested. They were tested in a way. Even with the two losses. Tested in a way. Historically, we just, again, no one's ever had the chance to be tested this way, but they were tested. So if you feel like the right team won and you like the expansion and you know, look, it made sense in a weird year for them to get another shot at this. As ridiculous as the Michigan loss is, if you're making the talent argument, you're kind of making the Saban Alabama talent argument. But you're just doing it with a different team in a different part of the country. Last thought on talent, because we've talked about the portal a lot and what it means and maybe a flattening and more parody, but for last night, that's not what it was. It was Caleb Downs going from Alabama. He didn't go to Minnesota, man, he went to Ohio State. And throughout the entire season, there's an argument made. He's the best defensive player on the field. Every single game he suited up. Maybe you'll go Abdul card, that's fine. Let's talk Big Ten. Big Ten champs, back to back, different schools, first time since 1942. Minnesota. Minnesota used to hang some banners. Speaking of the Gophers, Minnesota, Ohio State. I asked my dad about it this morning and he was like, I was not alive. A long time ago, six teams won national championships or claimed national championships over that two year period. So is that what happened? Because we don't do that anymore. Unless you're UCF 6 team, Stanford, Tennessee, Bama. A fraudulent nine and two year good enough for them to claim a title. They've got a handful of fake ones Texas, Texas football. But if we go by the ap what matters historically or I would say scholars reference the most, not gemologists. Minnesota, Ohio State 1 back to back AP. So the shift may be happening, may be happening. We have two teams. We have a list of five teams to the Big Ten that could probably win a national championship. I'll ask David Pollock about this but for a night it even in this year with an entirely new setup, the right team won a national championship. This episode of the Ryan Rosillo podcast is brought to you by Hill's Pet Nutrition. Hill's Food, Shelter and Love program provides science led nutrition for cats and dogs and shelters across North America. They've helped more than 15 million pets find new homes. And every time you feed your pet hills, you help feed a shelter pet which helps make them healthy, happy and more adoptable. Everybody wins, especially pets that find a forever home. Buy the bag that gives back. Visit hillspet.com podcast to learn more. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. You can choose the insurance coverage that fits your needs at a price you can afford. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. He is a piece of history. As we said in the Tease, he's the last person I ever interviewed on my show at a piece of something. Yeah. No, man. He's the man. Full intensity all the time. David Pollock joins us now. We're going to talk national championship with Ohio State's win. What's up, man? It's good to see you. It's been a minute.

[Kyle]

Great to see you, man. You. You still. I remember our weight room days, man. You still getting them swole sessions in and looking svelte.

[David Pollock]

Can't be legendary without leg day. It was the best advice she ever gave me.

[Kyle]

You cannot spell legendary without leg day. Y'all think about that 100%, baby. Gotta get them in.

[David Pollock]

We were at LSU together and we were working out and it was just whatever day was. It was my rotation. I think it was a shoulder or chest day. And you were like, what are you doing? And I was like, I got some shoulders. I was like, I'll probably make the most of it today because I'm not going to be here tomorrow. And you were, like, doing some kind of step up thing on the bench. Weighted step ups. You're like, can't be legendary without leg day. I was like, shit, he's not wrong. I was like, but today's chest, so there's nothing I can do about it. But, yeah, a huge leg day. Yesterday we were in the. The rhino belt was going. We were doing lunges, all sorts of stuff. So I'll be feeling it probably more tomorrow. How are you doing with everything?

[Kyle]

Doing great, man. Doing great. Trying to. Trying to fight Father Time as well, man. Like, loving, loving, loving. As we get older, man. You know what? I'm fine with getting older, Ryan. Like, and I'm fine with injuries, and I still play basketball and do all this stuff, but when I get older now what really pisses me off is when I wake up and I didn't do anything and something hurts that really ticks me off. Like, and that's starting to happen a little bit more. So thank God for cold tubs and cryo chambers and the works. Whatever we can do.

[David Pollock]

I'm serious. I mean, I don't know that I deserve just a pickup basketball or Muay Thai to have a cryo chamber in my house, but, you know, if I go another year, maybe without any dependence, it may. It may happen. I'd be like, you know, at least I don't have to send the cryo chamber to college. So there you go. All right, let's. Let's get into last night's game because I already spent a good chunk of the opening part of the podcast, given my thoughts on it, you know, going in, looking at how Ohio State had played, and I don't think it was disrespectful to Notre Dame. I don't know how anybody could have looked at the two teams and thought, hey, Notre Dame has a chance unless a bunch of weird things happen, which we know can happen in football games. But your thoughts, your expectations versus how it played out?

[Kyle]

Well, I was thinking about the other day when I was doing my show, and I was like, how many Notre Dame players would start for Ohio State? And the list was exceptionally short, and you're not getting past a hand. At the very most, I would argue it's probably just two or three. Like, I think you got a safety that absolutely could play. I mean, you've got a great running back on Notre Dame side, but you got two others at Ohio State. Like, the talent discrepancy is. Is so great on one side compared to the other. So I expected Ohio State to win. I, I, the first drive got me excited though, Ryan. That was, that, that, that tickled my fancy a little bit. I was like, dude, old school. Pound the football. Notre Dame had the ball for 9 minutes and 45 seconds. And Riley Leonard comes to the sideline puking because he just carried the ball six times or nine times on the drive.

[David Pollock]

And it was, little plate on his helmet was, was busted up too, after that first drive.

[Kyle]

And it wasn't like Lamar Jackson's where he doesn't get hit like everyone was a car crash. Like it was stick it in the hole, lower the shoulder. They had four, four third downs that were all three or less. And it was like perfect script, exactly what Notre Dame needed. And then reality set in where you've got to play it with when you get a holding call, when you get a false start and, and just trying to stop that offense. And I was just, I was reminded about all the weapons of Ohio State because Riley Leonard did that the first drive basically by himself. And it took, you could see the exhaustion. And they talked about him puking on the sidelines. And then Ohio State comes out and goes 11 plays with Henderson getting a touch and Buca getting a touch, Howard getting a touch, Jeremiah Smith getting a touch, you know, Quinshot Judkins getting a touch. And it's just like, hey, let's just spread this around a little bit. We got a bunch of guys that can beat you. And so I think you kind of knew, man. After Ohio State just kept scoring on every possession and Notre Dame was just so limited. It was like, dad gum, this is an uphill fight. And, and Notre Dame's just at a huge talent discrepancy.

[David Pollock]

So on that first drive, is that a matter of scripted? Because, you know, I don't know how you're scripting in the fourth downkeepers as well, so I'm sure there's, there's probably more structure to what that first drive is because then for a really long time, Notre Dame looked completely lost. And the thing that I would point out in the beginning that I'll share with you is you talk about an offense stretching the field and making you defend every inch of it. Like they're not throwing anything outside the numbers. Nothing was downfield. They had a crosser, I think, to one of the tight ends that Leonard completely air mailed. So I don't, I don't know what that was because obviously there was more structure in that first drive. But did you see defensive adjustments or once it was left to going play by Play that for Leonard, it was going to be a lot harder.

[Kyle]

Ohio State definitely started to bring more pressure. They. They were. They were okay trying to be themselves on that first drive. Then you see more big bodies, you see them bring more pressure. But. But here's the thing. I just think Notre Dame thought, we can't do this. Riley. Riley Leonard can't have 36 carries because he had nine on the first drive. And I think that was more about like, he's going to die. Like, he's physically going to be so exhausted and not be able to do this and not be able to throw the football. Because, again, with these running quarterbacks, this. This is why I marveled at Cam Newton till the Cows come home. I just. I've never seen anything like it. Run, run, run. And then you got enough conditioning to sit back there in the pocket, then make a throw when you need to. And Riley Leonard, you could see the exhaustion. So I think it was just more about that, man, they. They didn't think they could keep that up. I would have. I would have done the same script. I would have tried to run the football again continuously. Because the most important thing that happened on that first drive was you shrunk the game. You gave yourself a chance to stay in the game longer. And I think that was. That was important. But you're right. Ohio State wanted Riley Leonard to beat him from the pocket. And I kept writing down the first half, I kept doing tallies with Riley Leonard, and it was three. It was three wide open Mrs. From the pocket with good protection. And that's the part about Notre Dame is, can he beat you from the pocket? And he couldn't in the first half when he needed to. Now, listen, he settled in. Ohio State got conservative. Ryan Day, almost Ryan Day, by the way. Like, I was. I was sitting there going, dude, you made this change, and you made this shift. And you said, we're going chips in the middle, we're going aggressive, and you throw the ball five times in the second half. And I was like, man, this might come back to bite them. It didn't, because their defense, and they're a complete team as opposed to years past. But I think Riley Leonard's ability to win in the pocket, even when unprotected, you know, early in the first half, is what let the game get out of hand.

[David Pollock]

When you're talking about the talent. On how many guys for Notre Dame would start with Ohio State. It's. It's a good exercise, right? It's a good exercise. And Jeremiah Love at Running back is. I think you can make an argument I'd rather have him healthy over either of the Ohio State running backs. He had four carries last night for three yards. That's not why, like, Notre Dame wasn't going to solve last night by getting. Jeremiah Love the football a lot more. And we know he's been dealing with injury, but it was 11 days off, so you probably thought there was going to something else there. Is that strictly a. Hey, it's a bad matchup for us. We're. We're not even. Even if we. He's such a talented player. Maybe you got to figure out a way to get the ball out to him in the flat. But it's two catches for 5 yards there as well. I. I think if you're an Irish fan, you'd like to see a little bit more, but you're probably lying to yourself a little bit if you think that that would have turned the tide of last night's game. Cause it wouldn't have.

[Kyle]

But you're right. The dude is a freak. And. And we saw him 11 days ago jumping on that leg and landing on that leg and making, you know, great plays. So I think you need to see him more. But here's. Here's the bigger issue. They couldn't block him up front. The reason they had success on that first drive is you take that running back and he's a lead blocker, and you get the plus one advantage that they had to have. Like, they weren't good enough up front to push Notre Dame around without having an extra blocker. Like, push Ohio State.

[David Pollock]

Right?

[Kyle]

Yeah, against Ohio State. Sorry. And because if the quarterback turns and hands it off, the quarterback stands there. But if. If the running back leads up and blocks, like now, you get an extra blocker in the mix. And they needed it because Ohio State's run defense was the best in the country. And you saw it all year long. Like, goal line stands against north, against Nebraska, Penn State, Texas, to. To end the game, you know, in the. In the. In the. In the semifinals game, like, this is what they do. That's who they are. They're really, really good at it. And so I think you just needed those extra numbers. But. But I was impressed with Notre Dame when they aired it out here. Here's the thing. There was only one weakness of Ohio State's defense. 1. And that's at corner. Like, that was the only spot that I literally said, I can make plays here. And Ryan, like, depending on how the refs call the game, like, they could Call a flag every play on those guys. Like a lot of those are assault in several states. Like what they do out wide, they're so handsy and they're going to get.

[David Pollock]

Been, been a disaster all year long. Like all year long. Right, I'm, I'm with you. I, I think he's so bad at times that I would just be like, hey, do we make sure we throw it to him every series? Like every resetting of the downs, like let's get one throw in his direction. But go ahead, I jumped you.

[Kyle]

He's gonna hold. He's absolutely, he. And, and some people just don't have the patience and they're. He's gonna do that. And listen, Burke had his struggles as well. So it wasn't just, it wasn't just 110 does as well. And, and I just think that they exploited the weakness but it was, it was too late in the football game and they had to get three touchdowns and three two point conversions which you didn't think was going to happen. I, what did you think of the 9 minutes left field goal, down 16 on 4th and goal. Like what, what did you think of that one?

[David Pollock]

Well, look, I'm not an idiot. I understand. Down 16, you need the two scores. So it's fourth and nine. I thought the throw on second down, Leonard completely missed it and he had one on one to the right side of the end zone. On third down he throws it to great house, but it's at the five yard line and it's incomplete and he was going to get mauled if he even made the catch. And so then you're saying, okay, here's the math. You need the two scores. Like why would you kick it and then be down two scores? I think Freeman looks at his quarterback, he looks at Ohio State's defense in that part of the field where they are just impossible to deal with. Leonard doesn't have I think the arm to get it in there and he just saw two bad throws previously and he's thinking like, okay, as dumb as this is, the two score versus two score argument, at least if I kick the field goal and I'm down 13, I don't need the two touchdowns are hard enough, but I need two touchdowns. And then I t. I knew I need two two point conversions against this defense. So you know, nine, 25 left, all the timeouts, they did get two more possessions on it. I, I think that was a matter of a coach looking at his possibilities going, if I get the three here, at least I don't have to do the two two point conversions on top of what's going to be really hard to even get the other two touchdowns. So as dumb as everybody thought Freeman was, I. Whenever that kind of stuff happens, I immediately just try to think of like, okay, what could he have been thinking about? And I'm pretty sure that's what he was thinking about you.

[Kyle]

Well, and they, and they have those cards, right? Like they have the cards that tell you this. And it's a math equation. I mean, it's, it's pretty crazy to look at actually, when you see them. And the percentages weren't big. Like, it wasn't like a gaudy percentage. It was literally like 7, 5%. It wasn't, it wasn't a big deal on percentage of winning the football game. But I will say this. Marcus Freeman, I've loved his aggressiveness all throughout the season. Fourth down, I'm going for it. Like, that's who I am. I'm faking punts left and right. I think they faked four or five this season. Like, I just didn't like that. I'm going against that offense that touched the ball four times and all four times they scored touchdowns. I know I got a score, can I hold them again? And that's where I think, like when you want to do all this math equation and stuff, like when to go for two, when not. Who am I playing? Like, am I outnumbered? Am I outclassed? Is their offense really, really good? Yeah. Have I stopped them? Okay, I'm going to come out next possession and I'm going to have to be really aggressive and play zero coverage. How is that going to work? It worked out not well with Jeremiah Smith. So I just thought, I love Freeman all year long. I love his physicality, I love his mentality. I thought he just kind of played it safe in that moment when it was clear like we needed to push the gas to the floor. And yes, we still needed to get a two point conversion, but we needed a touchdown there.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, I, I understand, but I, I think too often we look at the math and the probabilities and we don't look at the matchup in football and whether it's fourth and nine against Ohio State defense. And as much as, you know, I like Evans tight end, I love great House. I mean, Great House had a great run in the playoffs. I mean, he was the only thing, the only thing that, that, you know, I don't know if it, it's scaring opposing defense, but like, you just got to account for him. Because on the other side, you're just not even. You're not even thinking about it. You said something, though, that I definitely want to follow up on here. Is. Is the Ryan Day almost Ryan Days? It. Because to start the game, it's a reminder of the toys. It's a reminder of how insane the Michigan game is. Like, you could talk rivalry all you want, but like, how, how do you not outscore that offense with all of these guys? And was that game a reset of like, this is what we're capable of. The Jeremiah Smith touchdown route was just so beautiful. Like, just to make you think he's going in motion or coming back or staying in the block. And it's like, all I had to do was go the wrong way and now I'm wide open again. What do you think was going on there? Is that a day called the chip? Is that them? Because then they were trying to run clock, but then they're snapping the ball with too much time left, which is another pet peeve of mine, where it's like, are you running clock or are you not running clock? Because if you're running clock, run clock. And then it's like they almost. The offense gets impatient when they break the huddle and they'll be like, I will just snap it now because we're bored. So there's a lot that I threw at you there. So give us, give us the big in depth thing of your thoughts on that kind of momentum loss there.

[Kyle]

First of all, I've never seen an offense evolve like Ohio State's did. Never. I've never seen an offense evolve late in the season and go, this is what we do schematically scheme wise. This is how we block it up front, front to completely shredding that. Like, Ohio State was a team that literally, they were not a gap scheme team. And I'm not going to nerd out on you too much with this stuff, but they, they lose their center, they lose their tackle, their best two linemen. The biggest thing about the scheme that they were running is it you run a zone scheme and stuff. It takes a lot of communication and a lot of guys that have played together for a long time, you got new guys in there. So it's like, all right, let's just go now to running counter half the time gap down backer, which is what I did with my youth league team. Like, you're blocking down in the gap or you're blocking a backer. Like, it's that simple. You simplify the system. You take Jeremiah Smith, who Played in the slot almost zero during the season. Now you throw him in the slot and it completely unlocks him because a safety have to cover him, a linebacker, someone else, you get matchups now you put him in a book on the same side. You can't double team both of those guys. So the system morphed and changed more than I've ever seen and for a reason. And they got aggressive and they wanted to throw the football. So that was fun to see. So why do you back off of who you are when, when you're throwing the ball over the field? Will Howard, we can talk all we want about weapons like that, dude. I'm going to be interested to break him down even more when we get close to the draft because I'm not sure he's not going to be a higher pick than I, than I ever thought he would be. Like 14 to 15 in the first half, but he's been surgical. The ball comes out, he throws outside the numbers really, really well. He throws on the run. 14 of 15 in the first half. Like he ran for eight first downs himself. Like just. He did a little bit of everything. So I'm kind of unsure of why we started to play conservative run Will Howard, which took away the element of counter, which took away the element of, of, of deception. They're not a team that can line up and pound you. That's just not who they are. So they reverted back to a little bit of the stuff that they did, I think when their offense struggled and kind of kept, you know, Notre Dame and they get. Now listen, again, nobody thought they were going to get three touchdowns and three two point conversions. So I kind of understand it. But when you needed it the most and you got gray outside matched up on, on Jeremiah Smith, you go, okay, throw it like right, throw, throw. We have the matchups to win. And then they did that. But I tell you what, you, you mentioned that Jeremiah Smith touchdown Rosillo. I love when people use tendencies against people because we're a defense. We line up. We know exactly what he's doing. Jeremiah Smith's off the ball. He's about to motion. I know that Gray's pointing up like, hey, he's motioning across the formation. Okay, how are we going to play this? Wait, I'm in the red, I got to chase him. So he starts to chase and run over the top. Jeremiah Smith stops and just walks in like you talk about. Awesome job of using tendencies against someone. Great play calling. And it made it a walk in easy touchdown for Ohio State to Start.

[David Pollock]

The game when you're watching. You know, I've always been a big Chip fan. I think it's a New England thing, too, on top of everything else. And when I think about his Oregon run, you go through the entire schedule, there's really not a game on there that he ever lost that he wasn't supposed to law. Supposed to lose. Bad pronunciation on that. You know, maybe the Arizona game. Right. But there's. There's a really, like. When you think about. Yeah, there's not really, like a bad loss the entire time. NFL thing doesn't work out. Looks like it works out, then it doesn't work out. And then ucla. I don't know this, but I. I imagine he probably, like a lot of head coaches, like, got sick of all of the stuff that goes into being a head coach, and it's. It becomes less and less about football. I do wonder because of how much everything kind of influences so many other elements of college football. Like, do you watch this run from Ohio State? You're like, okay, well, Chip still is. I don't know if a step ahead is the right way, but. Because it felt like they were showing people stuff that they hadn't seen before. But where is he as far as a play call? And it's really easy. Hey, they just won a national championship. He's. He's one of the best. But, like, you understand this stuff better than most of us. What is it about what he did this year? Or kind of. You see, like, the entire. The entire package of what he's trying to do over the course of the game.

[Kyle]

The Rolodex is stupid. You know, I've never been. I've never been more impressed, like, and had a more fun meeting than I did with Chip, like, 15 years. Shoot, probably 12 years ago. And I literally sat down and it was like, it was 3, 4, 5. I mean, it was so many hours. And it was literally when he was in the height of his Oregon days and. And he was running the quarterback. I'm like, you can't run the quarterback. Like, he's going to get hurt. And he's like, I would argue that a quarterback in the pocket takes hits that his body's not ready to take. When he runs, he's actually ready to take those hits. And I'm like, okay, Chip is a guy that. Don't tell me I can't do something. Like, he. You got to tell him the why. And I've always respected that about Chip is like, okay, well, I can do this. And. And he Will push the envelope and do things that other people aren't willing to do. He's going to run as quarterback and if he gets hit, he's in a running position. I'm not really worried about him. That's how it should be and I'm going to take advantage of those things. I'm going to take advantage of tempo. So I just think he has so much offense in his Rolodex. But again he just changed it like that like and again they had three weeks before the first playoff game but they ran counter like 5% of the time. Ryan, they ran counter in the playoffs 50% of the time. Like you talk about completely switching it. You better know football, you better know exactly what the heck you're getting. So I think the ability to maximize what he has, he's always been good at that. I love the way he uses tempos to get the screen game. Like he'll go, he'll get a play, he'll use tempo, he'll screen it to his guy. Like the spacing element, the third down QB run game, you saw that with with Will Howard. Like I'm going to space you out, I'm going to use my weapons, I'm going to run my qb. So I mean he's, it's just. But, but how about the humility of Ryan Day to go, hey, Chip Kelly with that big Persona. Ryan, you've known him for years. He's got a huge Persona. Like yeah, he's very stubborn, he's very hard headed. He knows what he's doing, he knows how he wants to do it. And you go okay, will you come on in here? Like we'll pay you do your thing. I'm an offensive savant. That's what I do. I'm a, I'm a top five offensive mining football. But I'm going to bring in Chip Kelly and I'm going to stay out of the way and let him do his thing. Ryan Day did a elite job of hiring Knowles and Kelly. Like I think it's the best one, two punching football as OC and a DC and Chip Kelly did his thing, man at the end of the season changing in three weeks that that allowed them to get to where they're at.

[David Pollock]

I don't think it works with Chip unless it's Ryan Day because they go all the way back or chips his coach in New Hampshire. If you don't have any relationship with Chip and he's supposedly your play caller reporting to you, I think that could be tough. But it also depends on where Chip is at. It also depends where any play caller is. Like, let me just do an aside here. Before we finish on the national championship game, Ben Johnson gets brought in, right? And he's going to be the head coach of the Bears. And it feels like this is the move. Whether it works or it doesn't, I will understand. If it doesn't work out years from now, I'm not going to go, hey, it was the wrong call. Because if you've invested a number one pick in Caleb Williams, you have to give him the best chance. And all these coordinators and the McVeigh Tree and all these guys that were hired and more of them were successful than weren't, but it made sense because you're trying to figure out a way to maximize the most important position in sports here. But you don't know, like, it. It would make sense to me that some guys who are just great at play calling and designing one side of the football are terrible at all the other stuff. It makes sense that there are dudes that are just really good at this one thing and then suck at the other one. But almost every single head coach is a coordinator at some point. How do you. How do you know? Like, I don't know if it's your playing days of, like, this guy would be great, this guy would be terrible. But what are the things you look for in coordinators that make you think they have a better chance of being successful as the head guy?

[Kyle]

It isn't. It isn't that easy. And that's why we see it right? Like, we see it all the time. Great coordinators. You go, oh, my gosh, what a great hire. And then they absolutely fall in their face because there's so much more to the head guy. Like, you are addressing your team consistently. You are setting the standard. You. You are telling them what this is supposed to look like. You got to bring energy every day. Not everybody's built like that. Some people love, like, being in a cave, watching tape and designing what they want to run and how they want to run it and set it up. But now you can't just worry about your offense. And I bet you, I guarantee you Ryan, he's going to call plays. So now you take on the responsibility of calling plays, studying defenses. He's one of the most innovative guys in all of football. Like, he comes up with creative ways to burn you. You saw that even when they were losing to the commanders and running reverses with a backup quarterback that just. He'll find ways to the stumble play that they ran, you know, three or four weeks ago. Like, they're creative. But that also means I've got to detail it. That means I got to watch it. I got to know what I'm going against. Oh, wait a minute. I got to address the team. I got to set the message for this week. What's our. What's our things that we have to make sure we get done this week. So you're just watching out for the offense, the defense. Everything about it now becomes you. Not everybody has that capacity. Not everybody has that energy. Not everybody has that. That discipline. And so I think it will be interesting to see the personality, because one thing you know about every. Every coach, every team takes on the personality of their coach. One million percent. Dan Campbell and them bite kneecaps for a reason, right? Like, they play with that because that's who their coach is. That's what he lives. That's what he talks every single day. So can Johnson come in and do the same thing and have that energy and have that toughness? Because you can tell me, scheme, scheme, scheme. You got to tell me more than that. You got to be my shrink when things are going on. You got to motivate me. You got to bring me up. You got to bring me down when I need to be brought down. And there's just a lot to manage. That's. It's more than calling plays.

[David Pollock]

Where are you on Ryan Day?

[Kyle]

I mean, a top three coach in football now, right? Like, you talk about a night that changes your. Your destination. I mean, the dudes. The dude's number three all time in the history of the game of winning coach. You know that, right?

[David Pollock]

Number three. The.

[Kyle]

The.

[David Pollock]

There's another way. Yeah, right. You could do 80 games, and he's number two. Yeah.

[Kyle]

I mean, an active. Active coach. He's got the highest win percentage. But, you know, there's always been something about, like, day when you're with him and when you're around him, like, it. It. And again, there might be some of this. That's media, like, the media not liking the media and the people they're around, the things you have to do. But it just. It feels a little rigid, you know, it feels a little bit different. And when you're relating to kids, like, you got to be able to relate to him. And I don't know that he's the greatest at that. But when you talk about, like, a mind, a football mind, like, he's got all the football stuff, there's no doubt about that. But I think the. The Weird thing about his personality that I don't necessarily always buy into is, are you demanding it? Are you physical? Are you. It's one thing to talk it. It's another thing to live it and do it. And. And I think they. They proved it this year, and they got to the mountaintop. And listen, he's recruiting in an elite level, and he's put his ego aside. He's hired great coaches. So he's a. I mean, he's definitely a top five coach in the sport. He's just got that Michigan thing that I know everybody in Ohio is pissed about. But you're holding a trophy. That's all that really matters.

[David Pollock]

I'll admit, in the beginning, I was a little thrown off the way he carried himself, because I was like, this guy kind of stalks and walks around like he's got a couple national championships in his back pocket. You know, like, there's like. And I would just ask myself, like, do I not like him? Like, I don't. I didn't know him. Do I not like him? And then I thought, like, hell, you're the head coach of that program, which, prior to the Big Ten expansion, is different, because I think the expectation in Columbus is probably harder to maintain than any other place in the country. I mean, other than the Saban Bama years, where it's just expected because that's what he would deliver. But because of the way Ohio State would have an advantage over every team other than the good Michigan years, the standard there is actually, like, perhaps more impossible. So then when I think about kind of the way Derek Dave would carry himself, I go, well, what's he supposed to do? You know, like, talking to myself a little bit here, like, thinking about a monologue going, what's he supposed to do? Be embarrassed? He's the head coach. Like, act like a doofus? Be deferential to everybody all the time. And then once everybody started turning on him, and it reminded me so much of the Harbaugh turn, where he was in the mix, it was working out was losing the rivalry game. And then people lose their minds. And people lose their minds in Columbus, I think as much as any fan base in the country. And then you could just see, I mean, Herb street to the verge of tears last night because of the stuff that they had dealt with and what his family had dealt with, which, again, they had already sold us. And I don't mean sell it in a negative way, but they had share. Maybe I should say it that way. And I talked to Herb street about this, like, to me, it was very clear. It's Tennessee blowout. They've got time to fill. He's going to tell us this story about what it had been like for Day in Columbus with that fan base leading up to the Tennessee game after the Michigan loss and that. Like, it's just a lot. It's just a lot. And here we are. He has the numbers. He has the real national championship. And yet you just know how that fan base is going to turn on him again.

[Kyle]

But, but you sign up for that. I mean, he was there with Urban Meyer. Like, he, he knew.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, I'd rather do there. I'd rather do that than, than be some place where I can't get a three star.

[Kyle]

I'm about to say you're doing it with a, with a higher budget than everybody in the country with a brand wide receiver.

[David Pollock]

You.

[Kyle]

Good lord. You got four first round draft picks in the last three drafts and you just got the next freak a leak. Like, so I think he's doing it with talent. But, but here's the thing, right? Like, you know what, you know what you said, what you said is Ryan Day is a little awkward, which he is. But the most important part. So is Jim Harbaugh. We just talked about him. The most important part, like, you can be awkward. You just gotta be you. For me, like, if I'm a player, I gotta know who you are. And if you're awkward and if you're weird, so be it. Be awkward and weird, but don't come in and try to be something that you're not, because I will read through that like nobody else. And I'm not gonna follow that and I'm not gonna give you my best. So I think that's, I think you get, as we get older, we get more comfortable in our skin. As you, as you, as you're the head coach of Ohio State, you become more comfortable in your skin and you realize, bro, I'm taking bullets, I'm gonna take strays whether I like it or not, whether I'm great or not. And you're like, okay, that's a part of it as a family. You gotta learn. Don't read it, bro. Like, don't read it. Don't talk about it. Like, let's just keep this out. And whatever system works for you. If you need to be off social media, if you need to take certain people out of your life, do it. And I think Ryan Day growing into himself, being more comfortable, like, win or lose your way, man. And you, and you can sleep at night. But when you try to be somebody you're not, man, it's hard to get people to follow you.

[David Pollock]

I'm happy for him, as I said in the open for this because I think I became more defensive of him knowing that, like, hey, look, I know you're losing that Michigan game every time, every year now, four straight years. But like this just.

[Kyle]

I like the self monologue you got back. You just, you know. Well, I kind of. I don't like.

[David Pollock]

It's a good thing I don't have guests over all that often. All right, last thought here. The shift like this was always the thing with the SEC for me is I'm like, you know how many teams deep I can go where it's like, hey, if this team won a national championship, it wouldn't be met by laughter, right? So it's. It's Bama, it's Georgia, it's lsu. You go back, it's Florida. You got cam season, which I love that you brought up because I think it's the single best season from a college football player that I've seen in my lifetime of like carrying a team. Because that was not some stacked Auburn team. They went a national championship. So the list of teams that you could see, like, yeah, that makes sense. Like that team could win a national championship. And with the Big Ten, it was hard for me to get to five. And now we have back to back Big Ten winners, Ohio State, Michigan makes sense. The expansion makes this exercise easier for the Big Ten to accomplish because Oregon's played in national championships. Washington played in one last year. They were in a playoff against Bama not that long ago. It's not ancient history. And Penn State's a game away. You know, who knows? If Great House doesn't beat a defensive back that falls down, maybe Penn State's playing for it. So with the Big Ten expansion, it feels cheating like a little bit because it's not like, hey, we have to go to Michigan State and Iowa for winning a national championship. But do you feel like the shift that we have evidence that is happening is happening a direction where the SEC is going to have down years 100%.

[Kyle]

And here's the thing, Ryan, I'm watching last night. There's a lot of SEC guys in that game. Quinn shot, Judgkin scores three touchdowns. Like, right, Caleb Downs.

[David Pollock]

Right.

[Kyle]

Caleb Downs is the best player on defense for Ohio State. We are going to continue to have more parity in football than we've had because ain't nobody going to sit on the bench and Develop anymore. Like, hey, because, because the sales pitch used to be I put the most guys in the NFL. Watch this come develop, like get great coaching. Now it's like, wait a minute, why would I go here when I can go here and get paid and. And everybody's spending money and spreading the talent out. It's going to continue to happen. I'll still say this. This year you still got way more competitive teams that can beat you in the sec top to bottom. Like, it's going to be a tough, it's going to be a tough deal now that the talent's going to continue to spread out. Like it's going to be really hard to go undefeated in the sec. One loss in the sec. Those are like, you just added A and M and Texas who are not going to go down like with nil and oil money. That's a different kind of money. Like they find $10 million in their couch. Like, that's a, that's a totally different game that they get to play than that a lot of other schools in the country. So I think it's still going to be the most competitive top to bottom. But no, I think you're seeing the transfer portal people being able to bid on people and again, I think it's about getting a couple people. It's not like, I don't think you want to build your. Like Ohio State built their team through great recruiting and they developed their kids and they added the quarterback and they added a running back. But. But they didn't add the whole team. They added a few pieces here and there that they really needed to take that next step. But. But it's going to continue to happen. And yeah, I think we have more parity because of it. And no better time than a 12 team playoff. Right. Like to spread it out and more teams that can win it, more teams that can jump in. That makes the season more fun.

[David Pollock]

Yeah. It may also just be a factor of like the 12 teams where you're going to have like, I hated seeing the seating numbers next to the team names last night for the national championship. Like, I understand what it is, but when you think about what history and how history should be recorded like 20 years from now, again, I don't think anybody else is really worried about this stuff, but seeing an 87 matchup for the national championship and then trying to explain why that's not really true and why it's also stupid. It's like, man, man, they had some underdogs back in 2025 battling it out and you're like, yeah, yeah, we need.

[Kyle]

To fix the seating. The seating sucked the bye week and the way that went down was this is the first year. So we can change it. I mean, if, if our boy Dan Lanning can have that rule changed, about 12 men on the field in 12 hours, sure as crap they can change the, the system. Right? Like in this off season. And fix it where? How about you give the best four teams the buys. I don't need, I have a small brain as it is. I don't need to know like 1 through 12 gets in. But wait a minute, it's not 1 through 12. They're seated in a different order. They're ranked in a different order. Like just like give the best teams the buys. Like, I love Boise State season. They're good. Arizona State had a good season. They weren't one of the top four teams. Don't give them a buy. Like that needs to be fixed and I think we can fix that pretty quickly. And that would make the experience better. Along with those numbers next to the names.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, they're already meeting on it. I was reading about it this week or over, over the weekend, I should say. And I, I, I think the vote has to be unanimous to change it. So good luck with guardrails are coming.

[Kyle]

Coming really quickly though. Ryan, like, yeah, in starting in February. I was talking to Dabo the other day, starting in February, man, like a lot of this stuff gets cured. Like you're going to start to have now contracts with these kids because they're not student athletes. Like, get the freak out of here. That's done. Like these are, these are pay for play players. Like whether you want to call them minor league or not. But having some ability now to say, okay, like here's a contract, like you're staying here for X amount which, which is a big deal. Like you only get paid X amount. Like, so we'll start to have some of those. Because these coaches, man, it's a miserable life. Like you're recruiting your own roster while you're recruiting everybody else's and people are recruiting your guys and you can walk in and hold you hostage. Like there's, there's a lot that needs to change with the game. I love the players getting to, to comp to be compensated. They deserve that. Like if you're an art student and you paint a masterpiece and you sell it for $20 million, you get the money. If you write a hit song at 18 in college, you get the money, right? Like they should make the money that they deserve but we definitely need guard. Guard rails. And I think that coming in February is a big deal.

[David Pollock]

Okay. Your podcast, where can people find it? Your YouTube page, because I know you're out there in the content game.

[Kyle]

Yeah. New world, Ryan. New world. It's been. It's been fun, man. David Pollock, college football. And, dude, it's so cool to just kind of do your own thing. I've seen you do it for years, and you've. You've killed it, like, and it's really fun. Like, I get to talk about what I want to talk about. I don't have to talk about agendas. I don't have to talk about crap. If I want to talk about something, I can throw it out there. So it's been really, really fun, you know, this year to start talking college football and whatever angle that I see fit. If I want to nerd out with tape, which I do sometimes, I can do it and. And talk about the game. So it's been. It's been really cool on guard.

[David Pollock]

I'll let you try my Wu Tang style. We're doing this with the former athletes. Okay. That music means it is time we ask about a time in your history. Right. And the game is, could you beat up this former teammate? So let's go back to 2005.

[Kyle]

Oh, boy.

[David Pollock]

You're with Cincinnati. I have you listed at 6, 2, 255 or 2 65. Combine was 265. Is that. Is that fair?

[Kyle]

Yeah. Combine was 265. Yep.

[David Pollock]

You ran a 4, 7 5. Do you know how many times you repped out 225 of the combine?

[Kyle]

I do not.

[David Pollock]

25 times.

[Kyle]

That's weak sauce.

[David Pollock]

I knew you were going to say that. But that's all right. You didn't have your old man strength yet. All right, let's. Let's go here. All right. Robert Gathers.

[Kyle]

Oh, yeah. June Bug. Played with him at Georgia. Beat him up. I could beat up Gathers. Yes.

[David Pollock]

Chad Ochocinco.

[Kyle]

Oh, come on, dude. That dude. That dude's the size of my pen. Yes. Like, but he's been boxing.

[David Pollock]

Was he boxing then? 20 years ago?

[Kyle]

He could hit me as hard as he wants. He weighs 130 pounds. You think that's going to hurt me, Ryan? I'd just be like, we just.

[David Pollock]

I. Look, I just don't want to do all defensive linemen because we're going to end with Jefferson City. Justin Smith.

[Kyle]

Oh, Justin was a dude now. Like, Justin was. Justin was. Man, he was just built different like that. Let's put it this way. That's going to be an all nighter like that. That's going to go the distance and it's going to go to a scorecard because he was a tough sucker, man.

[David Pollock]

What would his answer be?

[Kyle]

I'm sure he'd like himself. Hey, there is one guy on my team that I would, not that I would say I would lose. It's the only guy that I played with. I fought every day at practice, Ryan, like I was, I was over competitive, overzealous, like I just fought a lot. But I played with him in Cincinnati and I played with him at Georgia. Odell Thurman.

[David Pollock]

If I saw Odell Thurman, bro, if.

[Kyle]

I saw Odell Thurman in a back alley, I don't want that smoke like that dude was absolutely nuts. He'd go out on the town, come to practice, you could smell him and he'd be rocking people's faces. And just every chance he'd get, he would ball. Hey, how about this? When I was at Georgia, one of our linemen said, odie, I'll give you $100 when, when one of our teammates walks up if you punch him right in the face. Odie said, $100? He said, yeah. He said, all right, show me the hundred. Showed him the hundred. Dude comes walking around the corner, his, his teammate Odell walks up to him, whack, lays him out, walks over, give me my hundred. Like that dude was crazy and built different and I did not want that smoke.

[David Pollock]

I'm looking at his pro football reference page right now. 6 foot 2, 36, played in 2005 with you, 16 games, 15 starts.

[Kyle]

Defensive Defensive rookie of the year. Hey, he was a. He was one of the defensive players of the year in the NFL. He played one season.

[David Pollock]

He played one season.

[Kyle]

He played. Yes, dude, he could have. He could have been a monster, a pro Bowler. Like he was third.

[David Pollock]

Elite of Elite Merriman won defensive player of the year that year. Your boy OD came in third. But you're right, I mean this, this page is incredible because it's the 2005. He's got the five picks, all these stats in the 2006, not in the league, 2007, not in the league. And then it's just over. So like it actually is listed that there were, there were issues there and he was not in the league. I'm afraid of even talking about him right now based on what you're telling us.

[Kyle]

Marcus Dupree type of deal man like that. If he played, he'd have Made a hundred million dol. One of the best middle linebackers in the NFL. But he couldn't stay out of the drug policy, man. Like I. No matter what we did, we could not help him at that stage of his life. And it was. It was very frustrating because, dude, just player. I mean, at Georgia, I saw it for years. And he had trouble at Georgia, too. Got kicked out, came back. But man, ball player, and do not mess with him.

[David Pollock]

All right, noted. If you're in the greater Atlanta area. All right. You're the best. Thank you so much. It was great catching up. And, you know, for those that don't know, David takes an interest in some of the stuff that I'm doing in a way that shocked me in the beginning. So we had a chance to even catch up. And, you know, I know we're not like best friends or whatever, but when we do get the chance or when I hear from you and you reach out, it absolutely makes my day, dude. So good luck with everything.

[Kyle]

All right, well, thank you for having me on, man. And keep writing them scripts, baby. My man's about to do some big things. Big things popping.

[David Pollock]

Thanks, man.

[Kyle]

See you, brother.

[David Pollock]

This episode is brought to you by pepsid Complete. All right, let's talk game day essentials. How do I spend game day? Well, we already know that. Get out of the house, get the blood flowing, try to get some activities going. But, man, I had some wings the other night. My brother ordered them. Table wings. It was awesome. And it was also a little reminder you're getting a little bit older. But there's one guest that isn't welcome on game day, and that's heartburn. Because I remember thinking it was made up. I was like, who gets it? What is it? Do you get dumped and you get it? Nope. You just start to get it, man. I don't know what to tell you. And if you can't fix it, you're in for a tough, tough afternoon, maybe even into the night. Thankfully, Pepcid Complete starts to work instantly and lasts all day. Just one great tasting chewable tablet provides dual action heartburn relief with an antacid that starts working instantly and an acid reducer that lasts all day so I can stay focused on the game. Visit pepcid.com to shop now all day based on 8 hour symptom relief studies during the day. Use product only as directed. You want details?

[Kyle]

Buy.

[Saruti]

I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

[David Pollock]

What's up?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I have a ridiculous house in the south fork.

[David Pollock]

I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid.

[Saruti]

So now you know what's possible.

[David Pollock]

Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. The email address. You know it by now. Lifeadvice rrmail.com we are stacked. There's a lot to get through. We're not going to get through all of them today. A couple highlights though. Kyle in the Wild. Thank you to our man from Australia who was hoping to see Kyle at the Frolic Room. He did not. He had his wife. I think a kid was with him. But then he just happened to either from a bus tour or across the street. Yeah, that's what it looked like. It was. It was Kyle in the Wild. Drake made jersey on outside. Just taking a break from the activities on the inside. It is the best picture of Kyle I've ever seen.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You look good there. You do. It's like a white jersey, long sleeve. I'm like, damn.

[David Pollock]

But the pure happiness on his face is what really sends me. You're so happy in this picture.

[Saruti]

It's not even really good resolution, I guess. Yeah, you could see a little smirk. You're right.

[David Pollock]

It's artsy. I love it. So if you could post that for your followers. Your handle again is TomShady 300. Yes, it is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think the Red bus tour has to start just going by Frolic Room on a regular basis. They already get versus a Kyle in the Wild.

[Saruti]

More often they have a drop off get on spot right there. You know, Pantages. I don't know. Maybe Frolic's part of the equation, why they do that, but probably not. So yeah, there's a little. There's a little free pub for the big red bus store.

[David Pollock]

And for fans of 3 11.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You gonna post that picture? We should post that picture.

[Saruti]

However you guys want to do it this morning. So.

[David Pollock]

No, that's what I'm saying. It's so good. It is so good it has to be posted. And I just love. If you've ever wanted to see just joy with four limbs, this is your chance.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The man in his element, you know.

[David Pollock]

Yeah. So what do we got here? We got a. Oh, college planning follow up. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm a certified financial planner and have some thoughts on the predicament you addressed. The 529 is after tax money that grows tax free. It is used for college, kind of like a Roth ira, but for college. Some states offer a state income tax deduction for contributing that varies state by state. In theory, putting some money in the college plan for each kid Is a great idea, but it sounded like the 10k wouldn't even cover all the credit card debt. Therefore, they really should pay down the debt. With this cash. You can finance college at a much lower interest rate than credit card debt. If they insist on putting this into the college fund, then a 40, 30, 30 split seems fair. Yeah, I. He's the guy that does it for a living, so maybe you'll listen to him. But I think it's. If you're paying 20 plus percent to carry credit card debt, you're basically paying a fee to carry debt on that number.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So let's get that one privilege of having this debt.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, yeah. Like what kind of streaming services do you have? I get a couple and then I get this other credit card. I pay 200 bucks a month, minimum payment just to keep the balance. It's awesome.

[Saruti]

I feel so seen. All right, what else do we got?

[David Pollock]

Do you want to give us a number, Kyle?

[Saruti]

Let's move on.

[David Pollock]

Let's move on.

[Saruti]

Kind of a yo yo with my credit card debt, you know, I feel really proud and it's like, well, have you seen him lately? He looks terrible. So it just goes up and down.

[David Pollock]

Do you carry a balance or do you try to pay it full every month?

[Saruti]

Do you carry a balance?

[David Pollock]

I already know the answer. I'm sorry. You know what? I don't want to.

[Saruti]

Big balance brands. Call me big.

[David Pollock]

That guy's never seen a balance he's ever been scared of. You didn't give a. All right. Yeah, yeah. All right. So let's. Let's get to a couple emails here. This one's pretty long. Well, all right. Yeah, we'll. We'll do. We'll do this one. We'll do this one first. This one isn't long. And then I'll find the long one because I may not have flagged it. Hi, gang. A six two one nine. No gym stats, but pickup comp is Brad Miller. I think Brad Miller threw a dip in once while he was on the bench. One of my day one a one buddies is getting married in March. We are set to go to his bachelor party last weekend to Las Vegas. Oh, so they went. All right. Golf, gambling, partying, the whole nine or 18. Nice golf jokes. Really. We're all around 30 years old. About 15 of us are attending, Flying in from different parts of the country. As we get to the San Diego airport, where about half of us are flying out of, the bachelor announces to the group that he's gone sober and is attending aa. He said it's been a few weeks and you could tell he wasn't totally stoked on this idea. But he tried to keep the vibes high for the trip. This is a drinking crew. So we all started with the airport beers. Getting stoked for the Vegas trip. He kind of quietly announced his sobriety to everyone and just stood around while we all got started. For context, the bachelor. Well, it's. God, it's getting a little too specific, man. All right. He has a job and he owns a place that he lives in with his fiance. He likes to enjoy beers of the fellas and a theme party here and there. But isn't boozing every day or losing life and limb from blacking out. The request definitely came from his fiance. I've known the guy for 10 plus years. I've been drinking with him and I can honestly say he doesn't have a severe drinking problem. All caps at all. If he has a drinking problem that requires aa, then everyone on the trip and half of America should also be an aa. The vibe of the rest of the guys on the trip was pretty perturbed. Not entirely because of sobriety, but the fact he waited until we get to the airport to tell us about it. Some guys said they would not have come on the trip if they knew this because the trip became pretty expensive by the end. The fact that the leader of the trip was sober kind of put a weird tone on the whole trip and capped the amount of fun we could have. My question is, should I say something about why he shouldn't be be in aa? Why couldn't he wait until after the bachelor party to start if it was that big of a deal that holds this guy again, said they're all around 30. That makes sense. Is there something I should say to the fiance? Would say that most, if not all, the group hasn't been very fond of his fiance since the beginning. They met and started dating about a month or two after his previous fiance died.

[Kyle]

Oh man.

[David Pollock]

Sh. We'll shut up and listen. Sorry for the long email. This one wasn't really that long. Like I think this one is about perspective and age and I can certainly understand being in this mindset as I'm older. I'm not going to like there's going to be some people that hate your email, man. Just a heads up. So I think whenever it comes to something like this. Are. Are you sure? Like do you know, like, do you socially drink with him and you're like, hey, I don't see what the big deal is and could you Maybe not have all the information. Right. Yeah.

[Saruti]

Maybe he doesn't come home surly to you at night.

[David Pollock]

Right.

[Saruti]

Maybe he uses all his grace when it's out with the fellas and then, you know.

[David Pollock]

Yeah. Because a lot of these stories of somebody that feels like they need to make a change and then need help to make that change, you know, then when they open up to you, you're like, Jesus Christ, really, dude? Like, you know, and feel terrible for the person. Right. So there's a chance you have no idea what you're talking about. So I think the first thing I would say is it's not your place to go to him to tell him what he needs or not to. Like. Sure, sure. Possibly the fiance standard of what is bad or what isn't. Well, certainly it's below your standard. It's below your friend standard. But your buddy's marrying that person, you know, he's. He's not marrying you. So I would really emphasize sitting this one out unless you could talk to him in a way where it's like, hey, what, Just let him go. Let him take the lead. What led to this decision? Like what? You know, is there any other part of it? Like if you're that close with him here, here, how he feels about it, instead of you just going based on your information, doing a lot of guessing.

[Saruti]

Yeah, a lot of guessing.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Or immediately blaming her being like, hey, what did she do?

[Saruti]

I knew I never liked her and this is a bridge too far.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, yeah, right. I think the other part is that I think because you guys are so young, you are being incredibly selfish. And I know the deal of like, what, dude? You know, like there was a guy that went and got help that when we were younger, we were like, what the fuck? Like, you're not even like seventh worst. You know what I mean? And it's, it's about what that person can or cannot handle. It's not about the ranking of his dependency among your circle of friends. You know, that's. That's his own decision to make and how he feels about himself and the path that his life is on. It's. It's not up to you. And the fact that it fucked up the vibes, man. Like, I think your group, when you get a little bit older, you'll regret how selfish you guys were about this weekend. And I really like, it's whatever you think about what he should or shouldn't be doing, for him to have made the decision to commit to something like this and make this kind of life changing decision Are you guys at the airport?

[Saruti]

You know, he's probably a little sick about that too.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, you're not exactly Kyle. You're not even thinking about all the anxiety that he has leading up to that moment. I'd have to tell you, I remember a good friend and I'd reach out and he would blow me off. And I couldn't figure it out. I had no idea how bad his drinking was. And then years and years later, he came up to me apologizing, being like, you know, I really love you and I love hanging out. But like, at that time, I just couldn't be around anyone. And at this point, like, I would be in a sales call or sales trip, I should say. And he's like, and I would just drink a case of beer in my hotel room by myself. And he's like, and I would have a blast. But it was like, I couldn't wait to go on these sales trips. And then that was the thing I was doing. He's like, it's, it's really depressing. And then you tell, you know, somebody you care about tells you something like that, and you're like, Jesus. And again, you're making the assumption because you're thinking, like, I had no idea that that's what level it was at with you, and I would never, ever feel bad. And again, that's about being a little bit older.

[Saruti]

So you didn't even puke in front of me ever.

[David Pollock]

What are you talking about? So, you know, if I'm in my 20s and it's a close friend, like, I understand your mindset, but I can only tell you as you age and I think you just start to have a better appreciation for your friendships and you're probably more forgiving and you're, you know, the problems that you have when you're older. I think the cool thing about being older is that there's just less that you're like, well, I'm not worrying about that because, like, I have real problems now. I got to worry about who's taking care of my parents. I got to worry. You know what I mean? Like, they're really impactful life problems that can be heavier, but you're just not going to get caught up in a lot of the minutia and the day to day that maybe you're caught up with when you're a lot younger. So look, I'm, I'm not beating up on the emailer here. I'm just saying, like, I think you guys were pretty selfish to be pretty pissed off at this guy, even if you think, you know, it's not really, by the way, you shouldn't even say it that way. It's not up to you to decide what he should or shouldn't be doing based on the help that he needs because of your friendship with him. Maybe you're right. Maybe this is a massive overreaction. Maybe the fiance is just hammering the guy. Maybe that's the conversation you have with this dude, or for you guys to be sitting around being like, well, the trip kind of sucked for us. It's. It's really. It's selfish. And you're not even thinking about that lead up, as Kyle had hinted at, of. Of your buddy, dreading. Dreading that moment of telling you guys this on the way to Vegas. And, you know, if he told you earlier, half of you guys would have canceled. Well, that would have cheered him up. I mean, think about him for a second here. Yeah, I mean, that was a long answer.

[Saruti]

Sarko, the other thing about, like, a bachelor party, and I don't know, maybe this is different for women. I just. I didn't feel like the star of my bachelor party for more than, like, I don't know, 5% of the time. It was like, a lot of these guys, they got together, they. They put, you know, they took time off of work, and they spent a bunch of money to get down to Ocean City and. And all that stuff. Like, it really wasn't, like, I wasn't the main focus more than, like, you know, a very small percentage of each day. And there was, like, you know, two days. So, you know, it wasn't. It wasn't like, he didn't ask you. Like, hey, man, if. You know, for my surprise, it'd be really nice if we could just not have any booze in the house or anything. Like, they didn't say that you were just having, you know, an issue with him standing while you guys were all deciding what shots you were going to take. And, you know, there was an age when I think I wouldn't have dealt with this information very well either. But, I mean, maybe what you could have done is be like, all right, we'll see if they. This airport Chili's bar has a fucking Guinness 0.0. Like, maybe. Maybe, like, instead of being like, well, this kind of sucks now, you'd be like, all right, how do we get him involved? And it's not like he asked you not to drink. He's not like, hey, just so you know, for the wedding, you know, no wine, no beer, like, he didn't do any of that stuff. You just have it in your head that, like, you know, Mike's not having as much fun as I thought he would have. But I mean, again, like, bachelor parties aren't just for Mike. They're like, it's about the whole group. So I think it's good that you didn't say anything, especially if you're part of that trip. You're probably a part of that wedding. And if one of his guys is, like, against him, talking about, like, dude, look what she's doing to you. Like, I mean, it's good that you kept that stuff inside. These are all just feelings you're talking about. You didn't have, like, a group meeting, Survivor style, talking about how this is all fucked up at the trip. But, yeah, I think this stuff comes with age.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The other thing, too, is, like, there's kind of, like, a weird balance of, like, how much do you bring it up on the trip? And obviously the trip already happened, so I'm not giving you advice for this, but, like, do we talk to him about it? Does he want to not talk about it? You know, like, at some point you should. You know, you said you're a day one friend. Like, this is your guy. Like, you should find out what's up. And, you know, don't be accusatory. Don't bring up that you think this is the fiance situation, but just like, hey, what's going on with you? Like, I didn't know what was going on. Like, fill me in, because I will say, like, I have, you know, I've got a group, high school guys. Like, we're all close. Group chat's bumping every single day. We talk all the time. But, like, there are times when I'll find out, like, sensitive things through our wives or my. My wife, like, Maddie will find out something because somebody else told them. And I'm like, I had no idea he was going through that. That's kind of nuts. That happens, like, way too often. Like, dudes, I think, are just bad at sharing feelings like that. So the. Just to reiterate, like you. It's. It's very, very easy that he would have just been hiding this from you guys, or you wouldn't have seen this side of him. So to just automatically be like, oh, she's doing this, or this is, like, a thing that he doesn't want to do. That's a slippery slope, man. I think you got to support your friend and just, you know, I would. I would talk to him about it and let him talk to you as much as he wants to talk to you about it.

[David Pollock]

Yeah. Nothing else to add to that one. All right, next email. This one is the long one, I think, but we'll, we'll go with it. Sometimes you guys write in ones and they'll be like, sorry, this is long. Like that's not long. Like some of them are just some.

[Saruti]

Of that sort of like sorry in advance. It's always like, oh, it's the guys that aren't thinking about it. Those are the ones that tend to.

[David Pollock]

Be low, the less self aware ones that write these books. And there's just some that you'll read and you'll go, this is just too long. It's too long. All right. Anyway. Hey, Ryan. Kenneth Garai voice oh, there you go. What's up? Six, one, two, 15. Former college athlete, NBA Compass Tobias Harris. Going to get you 15 a night. Nothing spectacular. Knows the role of feeding the better players as age increases, but the longevity to always be slightly above average and welcome on any team he ends up on. Are you also invilible? Invisible? What's that word? Yeah, I know. Whatever. Early start today. I have been a regular listener and fan since the early SVP and Rosillo days, all the way back to outer rotation shirt day. Pulse the nation, no shirt for the guy who called in asking a question about Stephen Curry instead of Steph Curry. I've always seen a little of myself in you as far as life path, outlook on things, love of sports. Whoa. So you're extremely confident but also self deprecating. Really value the feedback you give during life advice segment. Would truly appreciate some here. My story is as follows. I'm 36 years old, live and work in the same large city in Indiana that I was born and raised in. I'm single, never been married, don't have children again, 36. I've struggled with depression at times in my life, often feeling that I am accomplishing just the average amount of daily success and eking out the most average midwest lifestyle that you were picturing in your head in September of 23. I was going through a particularly unsettling time in my mental health when through a stroke of chance, I ended up reconnecting with a high school sweetheart who had ended up moving back in our hometown. Let's call her Laura. Laura is legitimate knockout, tall, blonde, just absolutely gorgeous. On paper, I feel like she's out of my league. Typical SEC couple, as the kids say. Laura had a child in 2019 where she was living at the time with a man she was casually seeing then try to turn that into a relationship which ultimately failed. Feeling alone and the single mom life settling in, she moved back here to be closer to family. Is ultimately in line to take over family business. The father of the child, let's call him Derek, also decided to move here knowingly or knowing absolutely no one except Laura and his son that they share together. They do not live together, but he's around like a lot. Laura and I began texting regularly, progressing into the natural meetup for dinner and drinks. Began dating soon after. It was extremely intense. Fast at first. At that point I was at in life with the clock ticking, I felt like I'd finally re met the person I was supposed to meet. I can admit now I was more clarity that there were some incompatibilities from the get go, such as family wealth dynamics, her disinterest in sports, her love of skiing and skydiving, while I mostly am happy with a bottle of bourbon, pizza and an NFL red zone on my TV in a Sunday. But the attraction and the way she made me feel loved and valued and that I was saving her as the person she had always wanted but didn't know she needed, trumped all of the early red flags. How about that? That's like a Netflix special. The person I always wanted but didn't know I needed. Fast forward to February of 24. Here we go. Buckle up, boys. As I was ready to progress to the next step in our relationship as far as making sure we're on the same page, being exclusive to each other and each other only. Wait, so if you guys started hanging out in September 23rd. Oh yeah, it's only a few months there. Yeah. All right, we're good. We're good. Because I would have thought I'd been like, so you hung out for a year and then you're like, all right, what are we. Here's the deal, right? No, but this makes sense, especially if you're going dinner, drinks, text, the whole thing. Like, it's probably a quick turnaround on this one in February 24th is like, what's the deal? This, of course, meant the boundaries would have to be put in place in a relationship with Derek and how freely he comes and goes from her house as he wishes, acts as if they are together when he feels like it, is very possessive over her and clear. Including at one point forcing his way into her home in the middle of the night as her and I were falling asleep on the couch downstairs. That's a tough scene. From all accounts, he's A good dad also treats her, but treats her incredibly poorly. Yet my gut tells me there's still something there between them. As any times I had concerns about his unchecked access to her, I was met with quote, it's best for the child. Hard to push back on that, but there's 100 a difference between CO parenting and Derek trying to be with her at all costs. When it got to the point of me being clear and blunt about my expectations of not only her and I going forward, but also Derek, she began to withdraw from me almost immediately. Going from being in touch all day every day and spending as much time as possible together days to respond to a text, that's the first sign, boys and girls, I mean it's. That's pretty much all the information that you need. If somebody's just not going to respond to you, that's kind of it. And foregoing plans to see each other ultimately leading to complex completely ghosting me by March of 24 without much as an explanation. I pursued hard, not understanding what had happened, which led to her withdrawal even more to the point where I just gave up completely. Left to my own thoughts on what happened and honestly, heartbroken. Months later, she reached out a text she claimed she was supposed to be sent to her mother and not me, in which she was telling her mother that she'd come home in a few hours after spending the night with a different ex in Chicago the night before. When I called her out on the text being for the wrong guy, she immediately followed up with a text with a long apology to me about how she handled things at the end of the relationship and how I shouldn't have been so concerned about how things were being handled with Derek since, see, the door is closed. Since I was obviously at Drew's place, as if that was supposed to make me feel better. That is perhaps one of the shittiest ways you could ever explain that. Like, hey, I wasn't even with my ex husband because I was with that dude in Chicago. Don't you get it? Oh, now I feel better. Back to the email. A line about you were the only man who's ever stuck with me and loved me when I didn't deserve it. Really struck a chord with me and made it a hundred times harder to let go. She's just completely mind fucking you, buddy. Yeah, so I know that's like a really good line and she should write for Succession Season 4, but she's just totally with your head because she gets to without any recourse. We still get a Few more lines here. I ignored her, however, on that particular instance. Random little text between the both of us followed with months of silence in between, ultimately leading nowhere. We haven't spoken in months. When she reached out this past weekend to send me a picture of a game she was at, since it was my team, I guess he played there to tell me, you're so right about this place. It is awesome. Drew is also a graduate from the same school, and based on the seats they had, that's 100% who she was there with. I have not responded to her attempt, in my opinion, to get a reaction out of me. Nice like text that supposed to go to her mother but is resurfaced. The feelings I had for her anger combined with some stupid reason. Still wanting her after all of this above and writing it down. I know how obvious it is that I need to completely let her go. But the deepest part of my heart, for whatever reason, I still held hope that the woman I met was there for the first few months. She's capable of it the best way possible. Any concrete advice from you guys and the best way to proceed from here would be welcome. I know that. I know what she's caused me to feel, but I can't get rid of that last little bit of what if when it comes to Laura. And I just don't know why. Thanks for everything. All right. You already know the answer, buddy.

[Saruti]

Success is the best revenge. And just relish in the moment the next time she reaches out and you've got nothing for her. And it's still. You'll still get the thing of, like, she really likes me, man. You'll say, it's like, we. I think we did this last episode. It's nice to be liked. That's the best. That's the best. When they come back and you're like, no, it's still. Still like a thumbs up reaction to the text or. Or another. Something let you know you saw it. That's going to be really cool.

[David Pollock]

That's gonna.

[Saruti]

That's gonna feel great. But yeah, this is too. There's too much going on here. And I was originally gonna be like, this is why, you know, some guys are super into dating a woman with a kid. A connection to another man who comes and goes. But then it just got so much.

[David Pollock]

That's not what it is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's not even the problem. Yeah, he's not even the problem.

[Saruti]

So. Yeah, this is just.

[David Pollock]

You're not even with that guy anymore. Yeah.

[Saruti]

What are you. What are you, stupid?

[David Pollock]

Yeah, I know. Dummy.

[Saruti]

Yeah. It's just gonna be great when she reaches out again, so just look forward to that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I mean, this just goes back to. Remember it was the email that we had on Monday about the 37 year old guy who was like dating that he was just crushing it and.

[David Pollock]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Want to, like, be honest. And this is like boy band ass.

[David Pollock]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is kind of the opposite of that. Like, she's. She doesn't really want. She wants to kind of keep you on the string to keep you, but she doesn't really want to date you. And that sucks, man. Like, guy or girl? Like, I just. I just don't like that. And especially when you're, you know. This guy, what do you say? He's 36, so he's in the same age range. Like somebody's doing that to you. That blows. So, yeah, all the red flags are there. Like, you know the answer. As you guys said, you know, you know how this has to end. It just sucks because, you know, she's probably. You probably had a. You know, you had a couple good months. She's. She's cute and you got attached. But it just sounds like that, like, you know, even if things were to work out and she comes back to you and says, oh, yeah, I know everything's great. Like, you're the one I want to be with. Like, I just don't know that I would ever trust that, ever. I think you just got to go cold turkey and as Kyle said, just. Just enjoy the wins. As, you know, clearly she still thinks about you, so at least you have.

[David Pollock]

That kind of over her.

[Saruti]

Yeah, it started at like a Hallmark movie where like a hotshot, beautiful lawyer comes back to the town. You know, it's like, yeah, you know, I'm just getting my mom figured out. She's got stuff going on, and then it turns into succession. It's like shiv. Just. Just ruining Tom's life. So sorry about that, man.

[David Pollock]

Yeah, the hottest girl on your resume is a bit like the best vacation, you know, because you just, you're thinking like, is this possible? Like, am I this guy? You know, you're walking around Sant Tropez being like, could I do this? I know this isn't Botchy, but this is my life. Could I get a set? Like, and then you go on Zillow and you're like, that's. I think it's a one bedroom. Is that. What is that a shed? And then you're like, I don't even know what customs would be like, could I ship my stuff Here it's like, do I need to learn the language? And the ultimate answer is like, you probably can't just pack up and move to Santa pay. Like, it was a nice vacation, you really enjoyed yourself. It's an experience you're never going to forget, but it's probably not who you are. And I'm not saying this to the emailer like, you're never going to get somebody above your pay grade again, but the hottest woman on your resume is always tough. I've got one friend that emails about this one for fucking years. Like, it just, he never stops bringing it up. And you're like, yeah, dude, she was really hot, man. Awesome story. I've heard it 700 times. But it's because he just, he probably still can't believe it deep down. So that's part of the dilemma with all of this. And again, you already know that because you explained it all. But what you are dealing with here is a massive narcissist. Okay? Somebody that is totally comfortable with you for whatever she needs in that moment. And when she came home with a disruption to her own life and disruption again in a way that makes sense. Like, okay, I didn't have a kid. Now I have a kid now I have responsibilities that I've never had before. But because I'm going to co parent here, the ex is going to be around. Who knows what's going on there? Who knows? We probably.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Maybe Derek wasn't even the bad guy in this situation. You know, maybe Derek was.

[David Pollock]

Maybe you and Derek hang out.

[Saruti]

Yeah. Like, you're not even the special guy that she with sometimes because he's nice. You're probably one of a roster.

[David Pollock]

So. Yeah. Yeah, right. If you.

[Saruti]

Not even for me, if she ever gets to you, it's like, no, dude, there's. There's several of you probably.

[David Pollock]

She came home and you were safe and she picked it right up. And you were unfortunately, like. She looked at you, was like, okay, this is what I. This is what I need. And now this guy with the great seats with a little bit more coin is what she thinks she deserves now. So I think what you probably need to do is a bit of a Johnny Torch here and just go, next time you reach out, be like, hey, fuck off. I don't need this. Just. It is going to feel so good. It's going to feel so good. And I think it's exactly what you need. And it's a little harsh, but I think based on the email that you sent us, probably deserving of that one. I mean, the fact that she'd be like, hey, just because I sent you the wrong text because I was with this guy last night, but it's a different guy, proves all of your concerns about my ex are wrong. Like, that's some unbelievable wizardry going on right there. So, yeah, I think you're going to feel really good, even if you. You know, the crazy thing is, dude, is if you actually did that, she probably wants you back for a little while. So, you know, there you go. You could always go to Santra, pay twice. That'll do it for us. Saruti Worgon Kyle, thanks for listening to the podcast. A special edition on Tuesday. We'll be back on Friday, but we have a children's only edition on Wednesday. What does that mean? What are people saying? People are in the streets talking about it. Don't worry about it. It's only for kids. So if you're older, can't listen. But please subscribe still and check us out on YouTube. Ryan Rosilla Ringer must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.