← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Rudy’s Diabolical Game 5, LAC-DEN Preview, and Whether or Not to Call Dad After a Playoff Loss With Austin Rivers
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
You're listening to the Ryan Marcillo podcast presented by FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 100 GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com on today's episode of podcast Minnesota in 5 what happened? It was impressive. It was also sort of not impressive, at least with last night. Except for one man, maybe two men. So we'll get into breaking that down. I have more on the rest of the playoffs, including Denver up 3, 2 on the Clippers, Houston taking Game 5 at home, and some of the other stuff from the east with our guy Austin Rivers. And we'll talk a little bit about his team dad and that awful loss for Milwaukee ending their season. And we've got life advice that was impressive, but it kind of wasn't. Minnesota should have won that game by 30 points last night. Timberwolves close out the Lakers in five games and they closed out last night because of one Rudy Gobert. Yeah, 27 to 24. You probably know that by now, but if you don't, you're like, what, for the series? No, no. Last night he was a beast for somebody that is not always beastly. So let's get to my thoughts and why I thought I should have been 30 at one point. Starting the fourth quarter, Minnesota's up 181 80. And the whole second half, like they were up 10 at the half. I just expected they finally started hitting threes, they'd pull away by 20, you know, maybe a 20 plus point win. Not necessarily how I felt at the beginning because you never really know what Luka would get to his injury. You know, you always wonder if LeBron is capable of doing something really special again, like you'd done earlier in the series. There's always the shooting variants part of it. But you know, the first few minutes of the game I'm like, this is. This is not a solvable problem. I don't Believe for the Lakers. And Minnesota's defense was really good. Their energy was terrific. I love, you know, whenever you're pushing, I just think transition is almost underrated. Even though the math tells us that points per possession in transition. You know, granted maybe you're baking in a lot of just the turnover fast breaks with no defense whatsoever. But that, that kind of non fast break transition where you make them chase the matchups especially, you know, LeBron is not going to chase everybody and match up Luca who can just be absolutely lost out there. And if you have anyone of any kind of size and any momentum going up against the small Lakers lineup, there's just a lot of points. So I loved the way Minnesota was playing despite the fact they were not making any shots. So back to 81. 80 after a couple misses in the fourth quarter, these were the shooting totals. Randall, who we're going to give him some praise here later. 511, 1 of 5 on threes. Naw, 3 of 10. 2 of 8 on threes. Nasrid, 1 of 4 on the game at that point again. 01 from his 13 point attempt. Jaden McDaniels who fouled out and just has to be a little bit more cautious about how he's using his fouls. I know he's super, super aggressive, but he not only like, look, Luca got a Brunson one last night, but then there was another couple reach ins that were just totally pointless. He hooked his arm on the second foul, the rebound one. He was just caught up with the arms. And I know it's a battle out there, but he was two or three in the game. But 01, I mean only three shots for him because he was dealing with so many other different things. Conley, 1 of 5 from the floor, all three point shots. DiVincenzo, 3 of 11, 2 of 10 on threes. Ant, 4 of 15 at this point, 0 of 8 on threes. He finished 0 of 11. So there were so many of these threes that were great looks too because the Lakers had to double on a lot of stuff at the top. They doubled Ant a lot in the first half. I didn't really like it all that much because I think the more you do that then Ant's going to be able to kind of figure some of these things out. And I wouldn't even say that I, I like the looks off of it, but it wasn't always as productive as you would expect considering just how open Minnesota was. And so you run through all this stuff at that point they were 16% from 3. And it actually got worse. They finished 7 to 47, 15% around that time though. The reason why they were still in the game despite those shooting numbers is the size and the rebounding edge and the field goal attempt edge. Minnesota 74 to 61 at field goal attempts at the start of the fourth quarter. I remember writing that one down. And I also think it's Rudy the best I've seen him catch a basketball in a game in maybe forever. I don't know. I haven't watched every single one of these. Rudy had 24 rebounds. The Lakers starters had 27. So let's talk about Rudy because you know there are games within a playoff series where you can see something early on and you go, okay, well that might not be something they can even do anymore. They may not want to do that. I remember thinking that with a Brook Lopez Atlanta matchup at one point and then it kind of worked itself out, you know, look, the Bucks are not alive anymore. I wasn't on the next day, but the Bucks didn't want to play Brook Lopez in the fourth quarter of these games. I think the first fourth quarter minutes he had played was in game five, maybe. So when I look at Rudy and going into it and we all know like the Luca Rudy hunting that's going to happen. I don't, you know, sometimes the points for possession, I think some of the box score stuff on like Luca actually attacking Rudy, it. I think the numbers end up looking a little bit better than maybe the looks and opportunities did in watching the game. I would say that over the course of the series though, that Rudy held up well in these hunting season moments and at least was was still in the play. Like he wasn't getting worked like he would maybe against some of the smaller guys. Even though we know Luca going up against Jaden and going up against Rudy last year in the playoffs was something you'd be worried about on the Minnesota side. But the reason I bring up any of that stuff is that it was pretty clear like Finch preferred not to have Rudy in the closing group at all. Which tells you what he thinks are his best five going up against the Lakers, where if the Lakers are going to be small the entire time, you should want to be big or do you want to match their small because you're just not really that worried about it. And that's kind of how the series was playing out up until we saw what we saw from Gobert last night. Game one up 16, Rudy out at 650 to go. Now, you know they were up big, so you could make an argument there, but that's. This is the beginning of what was a trend over the next four or the next three games. So games one through four, game two, down 12 at 352 in the fourth, out now, down 12A, he's getting rest. How about game three, though? Up three, he's in the first, like, six and a half minutes of the fourth quarter, then back out again less than a minute later. It's 103, 103. Minnesota closes on a 131 run in game three. Game four, he's out to start the fourth. They're down 10. He comes in at nine minutes, then they're down nine at that point. He comes out four minutes later, they're down six. They close in a 1910 run. So in the first four games, it's clear Finch's preference of what he thought was best for his basketball team was getting Rudy out of there. And the numbers would have backed it up, especially with how Minnesota played in these fourth quarters against the Lakers. However, last night was totally different. And I think what we saw last night, as we've seen in these fourth quarters, is a culmination of just the physical task of trying to hang with a team that's bigger than you and I know J.J. reg talked about. Look, we're not a small basketball team. We just don't necessarily have a center. They tried to go even smaller at times last night. The problem is, is other than Conley and the DiVincenzo minutes, Minnesota's a big basketball team in whatever version of their quote, small lineup is. So just another example of all of these times where you can have something that looks so definitive in a game, in a series, and then it's the same team, same players, and it plays out entirely differently. And Go Bear's performance last night is a perfect example of this stuff. I don't really know what the Lakers were supposed to do to solve this. I mean, unless they were going to go nuclear from three, which didn't happen. They were 35% from three in the playoffs. That's 10th among the 16 playoff teams not playing teams. You wonder about them with the free throws because of how good LeBron is with it. That Luke is certainly going to live at the line. But there was nothing outrageous. They actually shot less free throw attempts per game than Minnesota did. Because that's another problem when you're small, is you're. You're out of position a lot. You're tired, you're fouling, and you have a Guy in Luca and LeBron at this stage of his career that are just not going to be dialed up energy wise. And that's another reason why I think when you watch these two teams play, you're like, which team's energy are you going to bet on to look better in the fourth quarter? It's not even a discussion. And this also leads to the Lakers having the second worst rebounding rate of any team in the playoffs. So all of that, then you can look at these fourth quarters, what I'm talking about here. The net rating. Minnesota was a plus 40 net rating in the fourth quarter in this series, which of course means that the Lakers were last in fourth quarter net rating worse than Miami even. Although you could argue Cleveland was kicking their ass so bad that fourth quarters didn't always matter that much in the series. I was thinking about the Lakers series. I'm going to ask Austin Rivers about this because he was on that Houston team in 2020. Remember 2020, Houston got game one after they went to seven games with OKC. But remember they were playing really small. It was the P.J. tucker center thing and then just a bunch of perimeter guys around it. So Houston won that first game by 15. And this doesn't happen a lot because I like you. You see just one game of a series and how the two teams are going at each other and you know, when another team wins by a lot, it's like hard to go, hey, I really like the other team in that game. Like the Lakers are going to kill this team after they lost game one. Watching it, like, if this is what this series is going to be. And I don't really know what Houston's other options are, Houston's going to get killed. So it reminded me a bit of that. I mean, Houston in that series, they win game one. They won the. Excuse me. They lost the next four games by 51 points. The Lakers out rebounded them 227 to 163 in the series. So the small part with the Lakers, I'd suggest if you're arguing that Jackson Hayes could save the day, I would, I'd put a little more time in. Not that I'm right about everything all the time, but like, you know, the, the simplicity of. If Jackson Hayes had played a few minutes in game four and a few minutes last night, like JJ Redick and the staff are doing it, right? So JJ before the game was asked this question and he. It made the round. So I want to play the audio for you now. He was obviously very upset with what was a fairly leading question? As you watch the film, what do you recall about your thought process in.
- [11:40]
Austin Rivers
The moment, sticking with the five you.
- [11:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Stuck with in, in the fourth quarter the other day? And is there an assistant or someone.
- [11:47]
Austin Rivers
Maybe that you'll lean on tonight? Maybe to try to get, you know, some other guys involved if that opportunity presents.
- [11:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Are you saying that because I'm. I'm inexperienced and that was an inexperienced decision that I made. Do you think I don't talk to my assistants about substitutions every single timeout?
- [12:04]
Austin Rivers
No, I just think there's a lot.
- [12:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Of coaches lean on their assistance in those situations, as do I, every single time. That's a weird assumption. Thank you, coach. Now, I'll start here. I like jj. I wouldn't classify a relationship as friends, but I like him. And it's funny, when he started on tv, we have a really good mutual friend. He goes, you know, JJ and you are a lot alike. And I thought, well, let me think here. Other than the basketball accolades, the looks, 118 million in career earnings, a head coaching job in the NBA, a degree from Duke and the hair, yeah, I'd say maybe the exact same guy. The question I thought was, was really the tone of it was fine, but it was very clear that it was kind of a fucked question. Like, hey, you need to talk to your assistants this time around. You know, as if when JJ was playing the entire same five for second half that we've never seen before. Like, if you're going to be say this all the time, but if you're going to be different and lose, you will have only lost because you were different for no any other reason. So you're better just with the way people react to everything. You're almost better in life being the same and wrong as opposed to being different and wrong. So J.J. does something different. He thinks it's his only out throughout this entire series. It doesn't work. So a lot of this, I think locally in la, it's going to be a big discussion, I'm sure nationally becomes the main talking point because the way JJ handled that ends up being like, you know, that's an assumption. I understood why he was upset because I do think it's a little like, hey, you're going to check in with anybody because if his assistance the whole game, you're like, do you want to talk to him? Like, why would he talk? What is he doing?
- [13:54]
Kyle
He's his own man.
- [13:55]
Ryan Rosillo
He won't listen to us. Clearly these guys talk all the time. And he thought it was his best, best scenario, and it didn't work. And by the way, if they had played Jackson Hayes, like, a little bit more, like there was. I don't think there was any sub pattern here that was going to solve the problem. Now, if you want to get on JJ's case for needing to handle it a little bit better, because when I saw it and saw the video the first time, I'm like, they better win tonight, because if they lose, then this will be part of it and this will be, like, brought up later on because you just don't see it a ton. So I think part of the job is, even though I would agree with JJ feeling slighted by it, part of the job and the seasoning is, is handling the questions that, you know, are kind of stupid. All right, what do we do with LeBron? Honestly, I just feel like anything he can do at this point should be extra credit and that we shouldn't be looking at a series like this and looking at his fourth quarter and going well. We need to. Need to have a real honest discussion about who LeBron is or isn't. Look, my guy Curry hasn't been great the last couple games. He's got to figure out something with Amend Thompson. We'll get to that game with our guests. So it's not going to be in the open, but, you know, Curry has. Has another bad game. And like, you expect me to sit here and be like, you know, I had him 12th all time, but I think I'm going to move him to 18th after games four and five against the Rockets. You know, I did wonder if LeBron was saving something for this run. I think the answer is that there was just not enough there. You know, he was aggressive in the first half. I looked at the shot attempts again this morning. I'd say the first two attempts in the second half. Early in the second half, you know, he had a really nice baseline kite. He had another one for an and one, and then he had about a stretch of six straight possessions where it was pretty clear he was either willing to defer, they were shots he didn't necessarily want to take. So I think the tank was pretty close to empty. And maybe it was after that 38 point game and he just couldn't really get it back. And I know that Luca, with his injury, I. By the way, I thought the divincenzo thing was nasty, but not like ejectionable. So if you want to call it a flag, one, whatever, I don't know that it would have necessarily changed the Outcome of the game, if it was called different, certainly it could have changed the outcome of the game. If Lucas back wasn't hurting him as much as it was in that second half, I think DiVincenzo got elbowed in the face. Then he's pissed and was going to hit somebody else. And unfortunately it was Luca. And Luca landed really bad. But Luca was terrible on defense before he had. He was really bad again. And also just the lack of positional awareness on rebounds going up in the air. Like, if somebody else is near the basket and you're behind them, but it's the other team, like, you can actually, you're allowed to step in front of them. And Luca just doesn't have a ton of interest in this stuff. And so, you know, if Luca hadn't had the finals run of last year or the Western Conference finals run of a couple years ago, you would start to hear more and more about those deficiencies getting in the way. But again, when they're in the finals, it's. And maybe there are. Maybe there are players. You're like, this still needs to be better. And it clearly needs to be better with him. So it feels a little unfair because the back thing was. Was obviously a factor, but it was. Wasn't a factor in the first half when he's lost and can't figure out who he's supposed to defend. And then when he's closing out, he's completely upright, he's not quick enough laterally, and he's just getting blown by left and right. It's a prop. But you'd still do the trade 10 out of 10 times because it was a great trade for the Lakers. So I don't, I don't think. I'm not sitting here today thinking all of these disaster thoughts about the Lakers because, you know, I just thought Minnesota was a lot. They had less public momentum, but I thought they were a lot closer as far as their accomplishments and who they were the last month of the season than the Lakers. So there you go. By the way, little love for Randall. Randall kind of saved Ant's ass last night. Now, if Ant. I looked at it prior to last night's game, I think he was seventh in the NBA in fourth quarter scoring. So we've seen him put together these fourth quarters. He looked like he was searching and so frustrated about all of the Mrs. From three that he wasn't 100% confident. I mean, it's weird to see that dude not confident. I would tell you, at the close of last night's game, that was not a confident basketball player doesn't mean this is something that is now going to continue to the rest of the playoffs. I imagine he's going to reset and have another huge moment in the next round. But it was a little alarming and good thing for Ant is that Randall was ready and ready for the challenge. I thought he was great. Like I thought they could have hunted Luca even more and Ant even settled a couple times and it looked like he had Luca on a side where it was just he and Luca and I'm like why are you pulling up for three? But Randall was not like that at all. Randall was attack mode, attack mode and the possession that maybe is the biggest shot of the entire night. 93:88 Minnesota's up. You know, who knows they get a stop, Lakers score, we're right back in this whole thing and had the ball and like Randall just kind of got it back from him, was like I got this, he scores. And that kind of was the game. But it was a really interesting moment and certainly important for a Minnesota team that needs that second score. And the confidence Randall has coming out of the series is probably through the roof after what he did. And again, shout out to Rudy Gobert on a huge night the Ryan Rosilla Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are underway, so don't miss your chance to bet on all the clutch shots and legendary performances with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. FanDuel is the best place to find all your favorite player props. And now you can make a heads up play with player performance trends. That means whether you want to bet on a player to score 30 points or put up a triple double, you can check out the latest stats and see who's hot without leaving the app. Plus, after the game tips off, you can combine live prop bets into a same game parlay for a chance to win big. If you don't already have FanDuel, it's not too late to get in all the playoff action. You'll get started with $200 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. So just visit FanDuel.com Ryan R Y E N to join today. Make every moment more with FanDuel. Official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. First online real money wager only $5. First deposit required. Bonus issued is non withdrawable bonus bets which conspire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply sea terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com let's dive a little deeper into the playoffs. Austin Rivers joins us off guard podcast with his guy Pasha. They just finished up, so you can check that out on the Ringer network of pods. All right, let's. Let's get into last night. Minnesota eliminates the Lakers. Was the Minnesota problem solvable for LA at all in the series?
- [20:21]
Jonathan
It's a great question. Um, man, I don't think so. They lack depth for one. Just being for comparing team to team, they lack size. Obviously they have Jackson Hayes. I mean, this is who we're, we're, we're. We're drawn thin here when we're talking about center play. I mean, obviously Mark Williams had his laugh last night. That was a really strange thing for him to do. I don't really understand that, but. And I like Mark, but it was just a weird. I don't know what the purpose of him posting that. It's like you failed the physical. You're still. And you're still in Charlotte. There's nothing, there's nothing good over there anyways. So I don't know. You know, Rudy Gobert having 27 and 24 in a closeout game is diabolical. And I love Rudy. Rudy's a Hall of Famer. But to have that type of impact and not make any adjustments, I don't. I think they could have made some adjustments. I don't know if anything would have been solvable. They're. They're outgunned and outmatched from a def standpoint. They don't have a deep team. They don't have a lot of shooting surrounding LeBron consistently, at least I thought the series would be more competitive. 4:1 was a shocker, I'm sure. As to you as it was me, I had them winning in six. Just from what I saw Luka do last year in the pick and roll versus Rudy Gobert. I thought they were going to do the same thing. I thought Jackson Hayes, if anything, was going to play way more minutes. Actually the complete opposite. I thought he's going to be one of the leader in minutes just due to the fact of him rolling hard to the basket and what that does to a defense and what a guy like Luca and his teammate LeBron can do to manipulate a defense by having a hard roller and the collapse of a defense and how they're able to find the open man consistently. Nine out of ten times they didn't go that route. But JJ alluded to them having problems scoring with Jackson Hayes on the floor. He said it without saying it. So I don't know if they had the, The. The man strength to come up with another option to beat this team they clearly were drawing. I mean, that lineup, they ended with the game last night, the second half. I've never even seen that lineup. It was. It was Dorian, Finney, Smith, Luca, LeBron, Gabe Vincent, and Hachimura. It was just like a random collection of LeBron and Luca. Where Minnesota had an actual team on the floor where guys complemented each other from size to shooting, to which one plays better defense than the other. They had five guys that could play on both sides of the ball. No, I don't think the Lakers were currently built to beat that team. I was. I was wrong.
- [23:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I mean, when they're running Maxi Cleba out there for five minutes when he hadn't even practiced and hadn't played in the game in a long time, like, you know that they're searching. I'm totally fine with Jackson Hayes not playing. I mean, I think it's. It becomes one of those labeling things where if Jackson plays a few minutes in the second half of the last game, you're like, oh, you know, they, they tried it. I, I think JJ and the staff knew what they do or don't have with Jackson Hayes, and they had to just light it up from three. And that wasn't going to happen as well. So, you know, as I was watching this series play out, and I was. I was in person at game one, and you got 48 points from Nas and Chase, which was. You thought, okay, well, if you're going to get that, which you're not going to get every single night, you didn't get anything close to that. And you had the Rudy game. So all these games are different, but at least in person, it was like, man, I know JJ likes to say how they're not a small team, they just don't have a center. I was like, yeah, but Minnesota's just as big as they are. I mean, other than the Conley matchup or if DiVincenzo's coming off the bench for him. And it made me think about your 2020 series with the Lakers when you were with the Rockets, because you'd beat an okc, right? You'd beat an okc in seven. You won game one by 15. Did you think you were like, we got these dudes. We're small, we don't have a center. Like, we're Going to run around like crazy. Did you think you'd be serious?
- [24:21]
Jonathan
We went to the locker room with the highest of highest confidence. I remember going back to our little dorm room, wherever we were, staying down in that bubble and calling my friends, like, but we better sweep this team. I was so confident that we had them figured out how that first game went. I thought, James, I thought we were the smartest team in the world. I was like, we, the small ball, they can't keep up. It's a matchup nightmare for them. We're slicing, we're dicing, we're spreading the floor. We have shooting everywhere. And then we couldn't win a game after that. In fact, we weren't even really close to winning any games after that. The last, they won four straight, the last two being nasty.
- [25:02]
Ryan Rosillo
So here, let me jump in here then, because the way I see, like, I think sometimes there's just a physicality, there's a physics part of this that's left out, and we saw it with LA and Minnesota is that you can like your guys or you can say, hey, if this works, tonight goes in our favor. I just think it is a very overlooked part of this, the physical task of playing night in and night out against a team that is so much bigger than you. And you were, you know, you were seventh in minutes on that squad. PJ's trying to hang in there and it's just, it feels like it becomes too daunting. Even if you think you have some style or scheme advantage 100%.
- [25:40]
Jonathan
I think it's only possible with a few undersized bigs in the league. I think people see Draymond do it and just get like the idea that any undersized big can do this for totality, for a seven game series. Like you said, it's one thing to have a game where you have success in it. Well, after adjustments are made. Is he still able to do the same thing? Are you still able to have that impact? They couldn't box out Rudy last night if they tried. He's just too. They just. He wore him down. Not to mention you've been asking this from LeBron all series long, considering they haven't really played Jackson Hayes consistently. But then he also has the daunting task of what he has on offense. They were worn down. Like you said, PJ was worn down. Pj by the end of that series when we played, we had him and Rob Covington down there boxing out DWIGHT Howard and JaVale McGee by the end of the series. I remember looking At Rob Covington, he's like, I don't ever want to play this positional role again. I want to go back to playing small forward.
- [26:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Shoot.
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Jonathan
The reason, just do my thing. I can't do this because it's just people do underestimate to your point, the physicality of our game. And with some of these larger sized guys, centers in particular, and the impact they have on the game. Draymond's the only guy that I know consistently that can just do it for a whole series. Go out there and guard someone double his size. Everyone else, I don't see that happening because it's all about makeup. The Lakers don't even have that. So that wasn't going to work. Like you said. I think they were drawing drawn straws there at the end. They went with shooting because they didn't have the confidence in Jackson Hayes. They didn't have enough shooting. They weren't going to win this series. That's definitely, probably task number one, I would say, for the summer for them is to go out and get a. A. Not now because he's older, but for us. Do you remember when we had Clint Capella? He picked, he rolled, he ran the floor. At one point he was dominating in the NBA as a big. Just from having that relationship with James. You see what James has done to Zubok this year, just getting a decent size big. And Luka has been proven. I mean, look at Derek Lively again. We haven't seen in a lot of minutes with him without Luka, but there's a difference. So I think people had hoped that Jackson Hayes could do some of these things. Obviously he was limited on the offensive aside, but. Yeah. No.
- [27:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, let's pivot.
- [27:59]
Jonathan
Trust me.
- [28:00]
Ryan Rosillo
No, because I'm really glad.
- [28:02]
Jonathan
Thanks for bringing that up. Right. I did have my head high after game one and I did think I was going to win my first championship. I was that delusional after being the Lakers. And then we lost four straight. I appreciate it.
- [28:12]
Ryan Rosillo
So all of you guys were that delusional about it.
- [28:15]
Jonathan
Brother Russell was talking. Remember Russell was getting into it. Rondo's brother, sit y'all mother get take it. I mean, talking all type of crazy shit. We're. We're in there like, man, this team can't score with us. Soft ass motherfucker. We gonna win this. And we were in the bubble. We felt like we could steal one. That, that the title that year felt like if you wanted it the most, you could get it. Because half the people in there didn't want to Be there. You know, the Clippers lost. Just purely off them not wanting to play basketball anymore. Lou Will was eating hot wings. Remember Paul George said he's having mental stuff. Half the team didn't even want to live in there anymore. We felt like we had a group that wanted to be there. We are living and dying on this small ball thing. We just beat OKC. We beat this team by a good margin. Game one, like you said, it was like 15 or something. Whatever it was, we have a good win. We're talking trash.
- [29:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
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Jonathan
We went to the locker room thinking we're going to win the championship. That's what we thought. And we are looking at the east at that time, which there was nothing over there. So we were like, if we could beat a couple. We got a couple more series and then we're in the finals. We're running through the East. That's how we felt. Obviously, the tides changed quickly.
- [29:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, so this is a good pivot, though, because I want to talk Clippers, Denver. I thought the Clippers. You know, sometimes, you know, when I. When I think about Minnesota and la, I felt like Minnesota had no public momentum, no national momentum, and they finished really strong and they were the healthiest they had been all year. And it felt like LA had all this national momentum because they had had that 18 and three stretch. And even if they felt like they weren't the same team to close, it's like, okay, but we saw the best version of them and we saw how good their defense can be with preparation and all these things. And then it's like, okay, well, that. That didn't work out. The Clippers, you know, I picked the Clippers. I didn't think Denver had enough defensive stuff on the perimeter to match up with all the Clippers options. And yet I'm sitting here going, Denver's up 3, 2. And you could make it as simple as Jokic, maybe in Game 4, but Murray reminding us of his playoff ceiling in Game five was a big part of it. I mean, they were dominant in Game 5. I think it was. It was bad defense by the Clippers, but I also think it was incredible shot making. And so it wasn't necessarily the superhero Jokic game that basically his baseline is a superhero game, but, like, it was a little extra in that Game four. Are you surprised? Embers up three, two in this series?
- [30:30]
Jonathan
I am, I am. I thought they'd be outmatched on the perimeter again. We just talked about depth with. With the Lakers. When you look at Denver and the pieces, they've lost over the years. Whether it's been, you know, kcp, Bruce Brown, obviously Jeff Green's older now, but he was a big piece there a couple years ago. They've lost valued, experienced playoff play guys, and they've inserted kind of young. Whether it's Peyton Watson, P wat Christian Braun. These guys who I haven't seen that consistency of play through, I did question them. I also questioned Jamal a little bit. I haven't. We haven't seen the same Jamal consistently, to be honest. Although Jamal is a different player in the playoffs this year, he's actually had a solid year. But like we saw last year in the previous play, even, you know, the Olympics this year with Canada, I. I don't. I didn't know what we had left with Jamal. And I'm looking at this team on totality and where they're at, and I'm like, I don't know if they have the perimeter scoring, the perimeter defense to be able to keep up with a Clippers team as loaded as they are on the perimeter with Powell and obviously James and Kawhi. Not to mention, I thought Zubak as good as he is, you know, again, we know no one's going to stop Nicola, but that's about as solid as the centers you can get. Who. Who's going to be able to kind of navigate through the game with Nicola and guard him? I had the Clippers winning in six or seven. Obviously, a couple of these games have could have gone either way. I mean, Nicola shoots an air ball perfectly to Aaron Gorny, dunks that they win before they're going in overt. That could have gone either way. Crushing lost a couple of the first couple games could have went either way. The game Westbrook took over and had some moments that could have gone either way. They could easily be three, two the other way. We could be still talking about, you know, the Clippers winning. It's the beauty of the playoffs. But yeah, I think Jamal Murray really surprised this last game. To your point. The Clippers actually as bad as they were defensively. We're having a great offensive game. They kept the game within nine, like most of the game.
- [32:23]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm glad you said that because they. They had like 60 at the half and yeah, they played their ass off. It's just so funny like when you're losing, then somehow collectively everything's wrong.
- [32:33]
Jonathan
Yeah.
- [32:34]
Ryan Rosillo
And I'm watching it going, hey, they're actually sure you'd love to see Kawhi have a moment and we can get to J. I Want to get to James here in a second, but there was enough there Offensively. You just can't believe the Clippers being this good, having this kind of defensive profile against what feels like, you know, I know Jokic is still going to pick you apart. The offense in that game was not the issue. I was shocked to see them that bad defensively.
- [32:55]
Jonathan
That's. That's what was blowing my mind. And when they went into halftime, I think they're down nine or 11 points. You even heard Charles Barkley say, I don't mind where the Clippers are at right now. The Nuggets have had a coming to God shooting game here. Jamal Russell, Westbrook started the game like he's like five or seven, hitting threes, all type of stuff. They're only down nine. I had the Clippers still winning that game due to their offensive play being still so high. And I felt like a lot of times defensive things can be adjusted. It's hard to turn on the offensive button when it's not working, when you're not hitting shots. It's not something you go to halftime and buy nature switch. The defensive end is something that can be adjusted. It's not like they're in a bad rhythm of defense. It's not like guys are hanging their head and lacking confidence on the defensive end. It's. It's a strategic thing. So with the defense, of having guys like Dunn and Derrick Jones and even Kwai, like all these guys who can defend and play both sides of the ball, I was shocked just to see the impact that Jamal was able to have. And it wasn't just some of the shots that Jamal was hitting. Jamal was like a couple of those. He just like came down and fired a three. No one even picked him up. Like, there was just defensive laps after defensive laps. And their offense is so good on that team that they were able to stay in the game. But then obviously, you know, they. They weren't able to slow him down. The Nuggets just kept going. I. Yeah, I, I'm shocked, man. I thought the Clippers had just more of a total team. I, I'm. I'm done underestimating Nicola. Every time I do or his team, they just figure out a way. But I think Clippers are the more total team here. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. They have a much more deeper team, especially in the perimeter. Obviously, it's not even close. I'm shocked to see them down. Yeah, I had them winning in six.
- [34:39]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm surprised to hear anyone that had ever played with Jokic Ever doubt him?
- [34:43]
Jonathan
It's not doubting him. It's just the squad that's been placed around him. I, I, I don't like the makeup of their team, personally. I, they still do have that starting core. It just doesn't look like the starting core of two years ago, the one that won. And that's a lot to do with, you know, Jamal. All of them have kind of taken a light step back. Besides Nikola, Nikola has continued to just, I don't. Nicola's having a better year than his MVP years and is not going to win an mvp. You know, ironically enough, it felt like every single other player has kind of taken a little step back. And then them losing Bruce Browns, them losing KCP's, them losing kind of the makeup. They've been mad inconsistent during the season, the firing of their coach a week or two before the playoffs, all of these different things. Who's the voice there now? Is it, is it because, Mike, you can say whatever you want about Coach Malone. He was one of the heavy voices in that locker room. Maybe too much. I don't know. These are questions I had to where I looking at a Clippers team that is fully healthy for the first time and quiet looks fantastic. And I'm looking at the overall makeup of their team and how many guys can play defense and how many guys can play on both sides of the ball. They have shooting, they have scoring, they have everything that you could possibly want. They even got to pick up players like Bogdanovich and all these, like, talented scores. I just thought they would overwhelm Denver with their talent. It wasn't a Nicola thing, it was a team thing. But they just keep finding a way.
- [36:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, this is going to be a bit of a setup. Okay. James playoff shortcomings, well documented. And at 35 years old with Harden, there's probably a stage for him now in his career where, like, I'm not expecting any of the prime Harden stuff. I don't look at the bad moments as damning because he's not necessarily like the clear number one. Like he's been in other spots and, and really more specifically Houston. He was great in game one. He hit some huge buckets down the stretch in game two. You know, game three is fine. I think game two, he had had the slow start, then had a couple nice ones in game Game four, you're like, all right, you know, whatever.
- [36:48]
Jonathan
Look at it right now.
- [36:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Not that big of a deal. Game five was alarmingly bad. And it's not just the Shooting. I was looking at it, it was like, okay, these are these little mistakes where it seems like as slow as he likes to play, sometimes I think the speed and the pace. As smart as he is, because he's obviously a brilliant player in the way he can read certain things. And I would never deny him that compliment. But I'm just wondering, as somebody who's played with him and has watched this play out, why do you think it gets harder for him? Somebody that has had this kind of production and again, a season where he was basically the only guy they could rely on until Kawhi could get back. Why do you think the playoffs are hard for him?
- [37:29]
Jonathan
Man, I think a lot of his game sometimes is predicated on everything being pretty, if that makes sense. I think momentum, rhythm, play a huge factor in how he runs his offense. And in the playoffs, the game slows down. Teams know everybody's plays. They know every set, there's adjustment. Every single game, every new game, every game in the playoffs, it's like a new life. It's almost like. I don't want to say it's a new team, but it's a team that is watching film of all the things they didn't do last game well, and they come and adjust. James is playing the same way every time. He likes a pretty game. He likes his style of play. He likes space. He likes rhythm. He's a rhythm player. Everything's with rhythm. And the playoffs usually tend to be about breaking up rhythm and adjusting and making plays. I think he. James dominates one way. So I think sometimes when you play this way and teams make adjustments to it, it's very hard for a player, even as great as he is, to. To counteract that. And I think when it happens, he just. It's an. I don't. Again, I can't speak for him, but I've seen it. He'll take a step back with his aggression. He shot nine shots last game.
- [38:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [38:43]
Jonathan
You know what I mean? Like my best player or second best player, whatever you want to call McCoy, from an aggression standpoint, I need more. I'd almost rather him go 3 for 18 than 3 for 9. It's like an aggression standpoint where, like when teams make this thing where things aren't flowing right, the offense isn't, you know, he's not finding his spots. It's. It's not. When it's not pretty, when it's not perfect, when it's not flowing, he tends to just. I don't know. And we've seen it.
- [39:12]
Ryan Rosillo
I know. I know what you're saying, though. It's almost like he's now decided, okay, I'm taking.
- [39:17]
Jonathan
He.
- [39:17]
Ryan Rosillo
It's like he takes himself out of the game before.
- [39:19]
Jonathan
Yeah, he'll take himself out. Like, I'm. Let it unfold this way, because this is the way the game's going. And I don't know if he's too calculated. James is one of the smartest basketball minds I've ever been around in my life, so it's hard for me to understand these things because I know he sees things and I know he can. There's. There has to be adjustments in his head that are coming to him to where he could figure out ways to be successful. I like, if you take away one thing with Nikola, it is instant that he'll find somewhere else to pick a team apart. It's not even. It's not even like a. Do you know what I mean? Like, James. I'm not comparing them as players or two different players, but in terms of mental dominating and running a game, I don't know. Too many more brighter than James. It's like in my career, James, Chris Prime. Chris and Nicole.
- [40:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Chris Cayman.
- [40:05]
Jonathan
Chris Cayman. Chris Cayman. Shout out to Chris Cayman, wherever you are. Yeah, Chris, Paul, James Harden and Nicola have all. They've made players like me or anybody else be like, oh, I thought I knew how to read a game. And then you see them pick apart a game. So that's what troubles me with James in these playoffs, because I. I see him doing it. He'll, like, take himself out, and it's not like he can't play or he's not clutch or he's scared or like all these things people try to like. I don't know what it is. He'll just do it like he had nine. I'm looking at the stat sheet right now.
- [40:39]
Ryan Rosillo
He was three.
- [40:40]
Jonathan
Three of nine, man. It's. It's. It's like they still scored 115, so I. I need him to. That's one of those things where. I don't know, Ryan. I don't know. It's.
- [40:53]
Ryan Rosillo
But we're. We're aligned here. And again, I'd be harsher if he were 30 and he's in the MVP conversation. I've been harsher about this in the past. So the reason there was the longer setup for this, which could have just been a much simpler, efficient question. But as we're talking it out, I was like. I didn't want to come off as, like, oh, here we go again with Jim, because I don't expect as much from him. I'm not holding him to the same standard that I was before, and he's had some good games here. So you could just chalk it up to, hey, they were at Denver. They got down, you know, and Denver's not missing and whatever. But I just thought beyond the three for nine, there were too many of those moments. I'm like, oh, this. Is this. All this looks a little too familiar here. Let me shift to Houston, his former team here. Do you think they have enough to pull off two more games against Golden State?
- [41:34]
Jonathan
I don't. I don't.
- [41:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Why not?
- [41:36]
Jonathan
I think from the depth standpoint, they do. I'm trying to use that word depth.
- [41:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Good God.
- [41:40]
Jonathan
I've said, like, 10 times on this pot. I think they have a deep team. I think they're talented. I think the inexperience plays a huge part. It's hard for me to see Jimmy, Steph, Dre, and I'm putting Steve in there. I know he doesn't play, but it's hard for me to see this. This team losing three times straight just from a manipulating standpoint of how those two play. Draymond and Jimmy, they're going to mess the game up like they did. And what was it, Game four? They made it a circus on defense. They made it. They took the entire flow, the track meet out of the game. They junked it up, and they made it a. The game almost got out of control at one point. The rest were reviewed, like, 10 possessions straight. They kept reviewing stuff. They play to a level, and they manipulate stuff. You have two Draymonds on the court. You have him and Jimmy out there. They're going to make adjustments, and I do think they're going to. That. That game got away from them early. Also. Steph and Jimmy not scoring in the first quarter, pretty much. That's not going to happen. It's just not. I don't have it happening. I also don't have the confidence in this current Houston team that if they go in an environment like they're going to go into tonight, or was it tomorrow, whatever it is, that they'll be able to figure out a way to muster through to get a win there and then go back to Houston and get another win over the same exact team. I don't know how much they have left in the tank. Jimmy and Dre and Steph, I don't know how far they can go. I do have them closing out the series. I. I don't. I don't see that happening just from an execution standpoint on both sides of the floor. I don't have Houston having that experience and know how to do, know how to do that. These, these, these next two games. I don't see it.
- [43:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Now I want to ask you a tactical question on this. So it's 9364 in the third quarter, 5:50, Steve Kerr waves the white flag and they got it all the way back to. I had it written down here. But I remember there was a possession where it was 1111 97. I mean your man Braxton Key was in there just missing around the rim. That poor guy. So the question I would ask, do you think, like, I think I know the answer to this because I think Kerr is going, okay, they, they blasted us in the first half. I've got older guys, they play tomorrow night. We're just going to focus on this game six thing. I'm not going to try to fight and claw back with older players here. Yeah. But I think sometimes I'll see teams like stay with their starters late. You know, Tibbs is notorious for it. You know, I think your dad's done it over the years where everybody gets mad like, oh, they're a 14 and there's two and a half minutes left. I think teams will, will wave the white flag earlier hoping to trick the opponent into doing the same thing. And in this case, I'm wondering if it felt like Steve, maybe it was just a bunch of young guys that were psyched to get minutes with zero pressure on them. But when you're on the sidelines and you see the other team wave the white flag and your coach is not matching with the backups. I know you could simply say the coaches are afraid of doing that, but I wonder if the opponent does it sometimes to try to invite the other coach into doing it earlier than he wants to.
- [44:53]
Jonathan
Maybe in a regular season game, in a playoff game, IME was going to, they got to win. You know what I'm saying? In a must win game, I don't think they, they would have cared what lineup was out there. I think they were going to try to finish the game. But again, I thought you were going to ask me, do you put the guys back in when they bring the game close? At that point it's hard to do that.
- [45:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, that's probably a better question, so go ahead.
- [45:17]
Jonathan
I wouldn't, unless it's something realistic. You're talking about two minutes. How much time was left when it was 97, 111.
- [45:24]
Ryan Rosillo
There was like four minutes. There was like a four minute point there where I'm watching going, hey, this is. It was 114, 101. And then they had a Pat Spencer missed a three. That would have cut it to 10 at 424. And that's when Key had the offensive rebound and then he missed. And then they had the Dylan Brooks play with Spencer getting ejected with the headbutt. That was right around there where I'm like, if they get this to 10 and it's four minutes, I didn't. I think you could tell looking at Draymond, Jimmy and Steph, they were not coming back into.
- [45:56]
Jonathan
No, they're done. Yeah, they were done. Those guys were done with that team. I'm waiting for game six. You can't even risk one of them going back in there and something happening. Otherwise the series definitely shifts the other way. I still feel like they have the momentum. When you're up 3:1, you get a little bit of cushion. They won at home. Congrats. Now we get to go back. That's the other thing too. It was on the road. They chuck it up as an L. You, you, you got Jimmy back somewhat healthy already. Let's not force anything and press anything. If anything, you just encourage the young guys for continuing to play hard and making the game close. But a lot would have had to go right and wrong for, for Houston for them to even win that game with four minutes left after the guys haven't been playing for 30 minutes, including TV timeouts and everything else, maybe even more. I think you leave you. I think you leave him on the bench. If you got a 31 lead going back home with guys already battling some injuries. Steph's got the thumb, Jimmy's got the pelvic injury. All these other stuff going on. You're already not deep as is. I would have sat him down.
- [46:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Because I think the other side of what I was talking about before is a 7:59. Golden State cuts it to 17 and then IME's like, okay, Aaron Holiday, Jacques, Jabari, Reed, Eason out and he goes back with the five starters.
- [47:09]
Jonathan
Yep.
- [47:10]
Ryan Rosillo
But at that point, like, I can also understand why he would do that.
- [47:13]
Jonathan
Yeah, yeah, I get it. On the other side too. He may say, we don't. We. We gotta get this win. We can't play any chances. You guys, you're getting close to get out the game. We gotta win this game here. So it just depends on what situation you're in. Yeah.
- [47:24]
Ryan Rosillo
What did you think of Kyle Anderson's comments? And it wasn't nasty. I think it was played out. When you just look at the. When you look at the quote, I thought it was nastier. I. Then I looked at it. I'm glad I looked at it. Because he was like, look, I'm not trying to be.
- [47:36]
Jonathan
He did say dick.
- [47:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right. But that Cleveland's better without Darius Garland. There may have been a little bit of protecting Hero there, because Hero and Garland and all these guys are getting into the back 100%.
- [47:48]
Jonathan
100%.
- [47:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Is there any truth to that? Because I don't think you can do anything with these numbers. This was such a ridiculous mismatch in the way it played out.
- [47:57]
Jonathan
No, I don't believe so. I believe maybe versus a Miami team where they're already outnumbered. And there might be some truths to that when they play a Boston or an OKC for that matter. And you need scoring and playmaking not just from one guy. Garland is going to be monumental in those series. And again, I love Ty Jerome. I love these guys that they have coming off the bench. He's not Darius Garland. All right? And when the teams that they're going to be playing against a Boston team, you have games where like Tatum don't even play well and they still won by 20. They have five to six guys who can play off the catch and dribble and make a play. Darius Garland is going to be needed for the Cavaliers. It's ridiculous for having this guy. Darius Garland's needed. He's an all star. They need him to play well along with, with, with Donovan Mitchell as well as all their other counterparts in that team to compete and win a championship versus a team like Miami where they're already vastly better than a team that they're already deeper and have everything. You could sit out a Garland so they don't have now anybody to pick on. Maybe that was the one guy they could pick on defensively and score. Now you get him out and you put someone else in there that could play defense. And now that's eliminated the one thing they've had, it's a matchup thing. But overall, like in totality, do they need Darius Garland to win a champions? You damn right they need them. Because the team that they have to get through to go to the finals or even beat, you know, whether it's OKC or whoever. But let's just look at the East. A Knicks or, or, or a Boston specifically, bro. They got seven, eight guys who make plays and put up numbers and do things. Cleveland has hung their hat all year on having depth and having multiple guys make plays. You can't take the second or third. I'd say he's the third best player in that team personally. You can't take the third best player of that team and say they're better without them. But I understand what Kyle is doing there. You know, Kyle has an opinion about it. Obviously there is truth to it. That's why the comment was weird. Just listen, let's be honest. The comment Darius Garland made in the beginning was weird because it's just like right message, wrong messenger man. Like they do pick on Tyler. Tyler also has 35 dog or 32. He's been doing his thing. Let's not act like Tyler hasn't been kicking Yalls ass. His team's just not that good. And Darius, you're not a good defender. It's not act like last year we didn't see Boston play you guys and they weren't just killing you in the switch they made. They. They'd get you to switch off on a Jaylen Brown or a Tatum and they kept putting you up there. We saw it with you. So like. And I love Darius Garland. I'm a fan of his game. He's so talented. Herky Jerky has he one of the best handles in the league, all nine yards. But you're not a great defender. You've definitely improved and you've made steps this year to make yourself not as of a liability on that end which you got to give him credit for. But like it shouldn't have came from you. You shouldn't be calling out Tyler hero for being picked on a defense when he literally when you play Boston in about a series of two, they are going to do that to you. Tyler, it's like that's why you don't say these things. That's why Kyle had the had the nerve to come out and be like they're better without him. There was definitely something there in him sticking up for his teammate. It's not true though. But yeah, that's my take on it.
- [51:01]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm with you not having a second on ball creator. When shit goes crazy deeper into the playoffs, it's a death sentence. And so if you take him off of that team. Yeah, like there's some.
- [51:11]
Jonathan
And you know what, there's splits offensively.
- [51:13]
Ryan Rosillo
That defensive position that Darius is not like none of us are sitting here talking about him locking dudes down. But no, no, there's too much upside on the other side of it.
- [51:22]
Jonathan
And you know what it does if you take Darius out it turns Donovan into a player you don't want him to be anymore. Donovan has might taken a step back statistically this year, but it's been for the benefit of his team. He's got multiple guys coming in and contributing. If you take Darius Garland out the game and put the ball always in there in Donovan Mitchell's hands, he's going to go back to that Donovan Mitchell two, three years ago where he's just going to score a whole bunch of points and. And it's going to be like a thing where he doesn't have enough help that it goes back to that. You need Garland out there, you need the ball out of his hands. I talk about this with Magic all the time. I love Paulo and Franz. It's in their hands too much. They need someone else to be able to navigate and make a play. You can't just take Darius Garland out the series and expect them to be a better team. No. Yeah.
- [52:03]
Ryan Rosillo
I have two things before we finish here. Do you think Boston has a preference between New York and Detroit? I love that series, by the way. Love that.
- [52:13]
Jonathan
It's incredible. You know why? Because first off, with the exception of maybe one game, maybe Pistons have outplayed this team most of the series. They just haven't been able to close games prior to last game. And Carl has been incredible. Some of the shot making that Carl brother. Some of these shots that Carl's are hitting like people aren't even. He's a center barely jumping, shooting from like half court, hitting these shots. I love the physicality of the series. I love how close these guys are matched up. I love.
- [52:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Would you. Would you. If you were our sir. If you were our Sar. Thompson. Sorry to interrupt you with some of these calls. Brunson gets. Would you contemplate retirement this off season?
- [52:56]
Jonathan
It's tough, man. Good God. You know, it's crazy. I'm such a JB guy. I love Brunson, but my goodness, man, it's the amount of times he whips his head back or he comes off a pick. I'm just like, man, it, it, it. You know, I thought the opposite was going to happen. When you look at the physicality of the, of the playoffs. I thought they were going to stop calling all those things. I thought they're. Because you look what they're doing with Steph. I mean, Steph's getting knocked every time he shoots a three. Half of them they call half them, they don't. They've been pretty consistent with the whistle with jb. Yeah. It's tough man. Cause, cause Thompson's obviously one of the better defenders in the league. He's done a great job trying to keep him in pockets.
- [53:31]
Ryan Rosillo
But there's two or three a game where Asar I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. That.
- [53:35]
Jonathan
Yeah, there was a couple last game that were, that were brutal. I mean they've been every game. Yeah, there's a couple every. You're right. There's a couple every game where you're like that can't be called. It just can't. Especially sometimes it's like time and place. They'll call it pivotal possession of a game. Pistons are fighting on a run. JB comes across half court and like whips his head back and they're calling a foul putting like Thompson and foul trouble or something like that. It's just like why it is. It's hard to watch.
- [53:58]
Ryan Rosillo
But you were going somewhere else that so hopefully I didn't derail.
- [54:00]
Jonathan
Oh no, I'll just, I'll answer your question. I would rather play the Pistons than the Knicks.
- [54:06]
Ryan Rosillo
I'd rather the high level closing offensive options. Right?
- [54:09]
Jonathan
Yeah.
- [54:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Pretty simple.
- [54:09]
Jonathan
Yeah. Yep, yep. Just closing a game versus Carl Towns and Brunson and even guys like Mikhail Bridges who have finals experience. OG all these guys. I, I, I, I, I would much rather play an inexperienced Pistons team that hangs their hat on getting contributions from like vets like Malik Beasley or Tim Hardaway Jr. You know, I mean again they're doing a great job, but I'd much rather play that team than this star powered starting lineup of a team. The Knicks have personally.
- [54:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Last last thing. We're going to make it personal. How long do you wait to talk to your dad after that last game?
- [54:40]
Jonathan
I've never seen a loss like that and it's been a while. I've never been so emotionally drained and charged up at the same time after a game. I don't even know how to explain to you watching that game unfold. The thing that pisses me off the most is following the loss I see comments of people like, oh, that's Doc. The fuck was Doc supposed to do in that position? I went back and watched that game purposely five times again, just the last three, four minutes of the game just to see if there's notes. I usually I'll write down notes and adjustments I would have made. Maybe some subs, maybe a player 2 I would have looked at or a player matchup just to see if I could have. When Giannis hit the Euro step and went up 7 with 40 something seconds left, that game could only. If you replay that game 10 times, it wouldn't have happened that way. And I, it was hard for me to be hard on Gary Trent because he was fantastic. The past couple of games, they're only in the game because of him. He lost the ball through his legs. I mean, the ball just went right through his hands, man. Then he gets trapped in a corner. But he, he could have just dribbled to his left. He picks it up, throws it the opposite way. Nemhard hits a three. They give an and one up to Halliburton. Every possible mistake that a team could make in a minute was made. I've never seen something like that end that way. I, I don't know when I could talk to him. I talked to my brother who's on staff. Spencer Rivers does player development. He sits right behind my dad on the bench and he had nothing. I mean, I called him and I was like, he said, austin, I have never felt this way after a loss in my life. I've never. And he goes, and we know, we don't know what we had after this. We don't have dame with the realistic, you know, chances of us going back to Milwaukee and winning and then going back to Indiana winning a game again aren't high. It's just, yeah, I don't, that was brutal, man. Now the question turns to something else, which we all are wondering, like, what's, what's next? I don't, I don't. I talked to my brother for an hour about this. Selfishly, my answer is different from what might be good for the team. I'm not thinking about the bucks. I don't give a, about the bucks. I care about Doc Rivers. That's, that's, that's, that's who I care about. Personally, I have my thoughts on what would be best beneficial for him. I don't know if it's the best for the team, but.
- [57:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Do I dare ask the follow up?
- [57:09]
Jonathan
Yeah, I, I, I mean, listen, if you have to honor what Giannis wants to do, at the end of the day, he's earned that. He's won a championship there. He's one of the top players on the planet. Still, if this guy comes to you and says, I want to stay here, I want to keep rebuilding around me, then you do it, because that's what you do with a guy like Giannis and he's earned that. But if there is a hint or if he starts having conversations with you, like, I got to look at other Options. Then you look at other options and you get a haul for him. He's so good that you could get a restart, a full restart with him. You could take him to Houston. Not saying Houston would do it. And you could get a they don't even use Cam Whitmore. Put Cam Whitmore in the dunker spot. Give him watch. Have him watch film of Aaron Gordon. Tell me Cam Whitmore can't do some of those same things athletically. Go get you a. I don't think they're going to. Thompson's not going anywhere. But you could get a Reed shepherd who they're not using yet. You go get a Jalen Green who's probably one of the best startup two guards in the league. If you're talking about potential and projects, he's only continued to get better. Couple first round picks, second round pick, all for this one guy that's already a startup right there. You still have other guys on the roster that you can move for other pieces. That's a good startup. Go coach. I personally, if you're asking from his son, I want. I miss him coaching the heart and hustle magic. I wish him doing more with less. I'm tired of him putting himself in these positions to where they either win and it's a good job or if they lose Fire document. He's been in pressurized coaching situations for the last however many years. And I don't know if you're looking around the NBA, the teams who are winning are startup teams who have held together and started from within and just built their way up. Suns, all these projects where you're putting stars together, shit ain't working. It's. It's not working like that. You got okc, you got Cleveland, you got Boston. These teams have not made changes. They have started from the ground up and just built up. Go coach some basketball without stress for a year or two. My God. Dude, you keep. You just did it with Philly. You were on a team that wasn't built to win, but if you lost, you get fired. They. He got fired for losing to the Celtics. Who won. It makes no sense. That's. That's who he keeps putting himself in these situations to do. I'm just tired of seeing him in these positions where every time they lose they bring up his 3:1 record or this bullshit with him. It's exhausting. As a. As a. As a family member, I would like him to go do it with a lot of these guys. But IMEI is doing IME went with a young team, and we're going to start here. We're going to build our way up. You get a longer. You get job security, you get a longer Runway. You have more control. You have players who will listen. Young players. You don't have a. You know what I'm talking about. Look at Bud just went through in Phoenix. Like, don't stop. Don't take that job. Don't stop doing these jobs.
- [59:47]
Ryan Rosillo
It.
- [59:47]
Jonathan
I told him not to take the Philly job. He took it. I. These are things that I have been outwardly outspoken about. So that's why I feel comfortable saying this on your podcast. And I. That's my personal feeling. You know what I mean? Obviously, you would never want to trade a Giannis, because Giannis is the top two or three player in the world, but you don't have anything to win there with him right now because Dame's out all next year. You're pretty much locked in with that. That. With that. They're not going to get any better with that. That's. That team is not going anywhere. It's the hard reality. So I'm nervous for him and what is expected of him, of this team with Giannis and what then. Then, then next year, if Giannis is there and they're not winning. It's a circus now because now everyone's like, Giannis wants. Giannis got to get it. But unless he wants to be Dirk Nowinski. If you want to be somewhere and just win one title there, which is fine because you've earned that and you want to ride, ride it out there, I've told nothing but respect. That'd be great, but for my dad, and selfishly, if you're asking what I would like for him to do. Yeah. I'd like him to get a startup team, a young team, and build that out. Go, coach. Look what he did with the Clippers team after Blake and Christendom left. They took a Warriors team to 5, 6 games with. With the rookie Shea and Pat, Beverly and Lou Will, and everybody was raving about Doc's coaching ability. Then somehow, I guess he forgot how to do it. But they got Paul, George and Kawhi there and they fired his ass when they lost in the bubble. I'm just. That's the way it works when you get those type of rosters in front of you. So I don't know.
- [61:09]
Ryan Rosillo
I imagine the 31 jokes make you just furious.
- [61:13]
Jonathan
They make. They make me really angry because they try to. They try to. This is a man who's on the verge of being the most winningest African American coach in the history of the sport. And they continue to put his legacy in a box of him losing three ones, but don't have any context around it, with the exception of the Houston one that I happen to be a part of. We'll take ownership of that one. The blame that's placed on him for the 31 loss in the bubble is confusing to me considering half the team didn't want to be there and his best players were playing like dog. So I don't know why he gets the blame for the 31 loss there. The other 31 loss when they lost to the Pistons, who won with a TMAC team that had no business being up. He's been a product of his own overachievement.
- [62:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, that one I, I may look, the last thing I, I've always. I'm never going to sit here and you know how I feel about your dad. I really like your dad. He's always been awesome to me. I've known him, you know, casually off and on. I remember working out with him almost 20 years ago when you were a kid and he was telling me about you. Like we were working out together in the gym, at a hotel for a road trip, and he was talking about you. I mean, it's, it's just really cool. Like you might have been in sixth grade. And he's like, he's going to be in the NBA. And I was like, damn. Really? Because I remember he was talking about your brother and he was like, he's like, yeah, but he's like, awesome. It's like you got middle one.
- [62:35]
Jonathan
Yeah.
- [62:36]
Ryan Rosillo
He's like, he's the one that's going to get it done. So I don't want to sit here and be like, well, I think you're wrong about this one. The one we agree on emphatically is the Orlando one. Just is another one you get to add to the list. That's totally, totally unfair about it. The thing I think I'd ask is, you know, when he was done in Boston, he didn't want to rebuild. He wanted to go to the Clippers. He wanted that pressure. You may feel that way, you may feel this way of everything you've said right now, just. Yeah, that's my question.
- [63:02]
Jonathan
No, it does not. He has chased that high. I personally think he's chased that high since winning and being on that mountaintop as one of those coaches. He wants that and nothing else sometimes. That's what I've heard. I, I, his mind could change, but from What I've seen and the decisions he's made. Ryan, he wants to be in the cooker. He wants to do it. That's what he wants. As a family person, though, we feel for him when things go this way and then like they're throwing it at him and they're saying, the three one, he sucks, he's overrated. All with docs there, you know, Doc and Darvin Hand. I see the jokes, he sees them. It wears you out a little bit because I'm like, yo, you're a fucking great coach, man. I don't hear this with anybody else. That loses. Steve Kerr and these guys can lose every year. Nothing, nothing. The doc loses jokes. 3:1 jokes. There's just jokes on jokes with my guy. So, yeah, I get a little defensive. I get a little irritable with it. I would like him to go coach basketball where he has actual voice and control over things again and gets to build within. I don't know. But he likes. Yeah, man, you're right. At the end of the day, I feel this way. That's not the way he feels. He's. He likes being in a win or bust season. Like, those are the things he keeps putting. Win or bust. I'm just like, God damn, that's a lot of pressure. You got to win it all for it to go right.
- [64:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Look, you sound like a son. You sound like a son. Who cares?
- [64:15]
Jonathan
I am, I am, I am, I am. At the end of the day. So.
- [64:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, dude, this was great. Thanks as always. It's always great visiting with you. And again, check out our guy Austin with Pasha on off guard, part of our Ringer Network podcast. It's out every week and they're on fire during the playoffs. Thanks, man.
- [64:32]
Jonathan
I appreciate you, man. Have a good one.
- [64:37]
Ryan Rosillo
As you know by now, we've been tearing through the playoffs. Some nice nights with our partners, FanDuel, America's number one sports book. You can check out the latest odds and pricing. I've got a three legger for you. 4. If you're feeling a little spicy again, you can see that@sportsbook.fanduel.com we've got Denver at the Clippers. So the totals, we know this was an underfest in the playoffs here quite a bit. And I think that number gets jumped up a bit with the game five results where Denver could not miss a shot. So I'm going to go under 212 just expecting the Clippers. Yes, I said the Clippers to fight tonight. From a talent standpoint, I still feel better About Los Angeles, but doesn't mean that they're going to win. And picking against Jokic feels pretty stupid when you're down 3:2 on your prediction on this one, but get some right, get some wrong. Anyway, so I'm going to go under 212 hoping that this game grinds a bit more because it's close and the Clippers are fighting. And you're going to get max effort because they're trying to stay alive in this whole thing. Kawhi 20 or more points. I like that over jamal getting right 20 or more points. So that under 212. Kawhi 20 plus. Jamal 20 plus. Paying out at plus 345. If you want to add a little Jokic sprinkle on this thing. Over one and a half threes made makes it plus four. Four, four plus four 44. He's two or more made threes three to five games. Only hit one in the last one because he didn't really need it. So a couple different options for you. Again, check it all out. Sportsbook.fanduel.com you want details? Fine.
- [66:11]
Kyle
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [66:14]
Ryan Rosillo
What's up?
- [66:16]
Austin Rivers
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [66:19]
Jonathan
I have every toy you can possibly imagine, and best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.
- [66:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, everybody, it's life advice. Gather your women. This is a segment that they like. Probably didn't love the Minnesota Open, but maybe run it by them. You know, expand the horizons. Kyle is here. War gun is here. Good to see everybody. Kyle, you golfing today? Because you look ready.
- [66:47]
Kyle
First time in a month. Super nervous. Ordered two boxes of balls, just ready to lose them.
- [66:52]
Ryan Rosillo
What kind of balls are we rolling with?
- [66:55]
Kyle
I'm still not buying cheap ones. Now I think I got Titleist super soft. Got my initials on them.
- [67:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Nice.
- [67:03]
Kyle
Was up late last night. Just put my initials on all of them. Really excited for today.
- [67:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Oregon. A U. Golfer.
- [67:11]
Austin Rivers
I played in high school, but haven't played in, like, probably 10 years since I graduated college.
- [67:15]
Kyle
With, like, played team.
- [67:18]
Austin Rivers
Yeah, Played on a high school team.
- [67:19]
Kyle
Wow.
- [67:20]
Austin Rivers
You know what's interesting? Me, Kyle and Cerutty are like the same dude. We all worked at, like, a sporting goods store in high school. Me and Saruti were on the golf team. Just a lot of. A lot of through lines.
- [67:30]
Kyle
Did you guys get thrown out of college, too?
- [67:33]
Austin Rivers
Let me think.
- [67:34]
Ryan Rosillo
No, just kidding.
- [67:34]
Kyle
No, I'm just kidding.
- [67:41]
Ryan Rosillo
I was asked to tighten it up. So Kyle And I. Some similarities there. What kind of. Where were you sporting? Good wise?
- [67:50]
Austin Rivers
I did. Dixon, Sports Authority. Kyle, what were you?
- [67:54]
Kyle
I was just Modells the whole time.
- [67:55]
Austin Rivers
There we go.
- [67:57]
Kyle
Do you have a department like I was. I was, I was the sporting. I would say I was the heart of it because I was sporting. Because there's like a guy over in footwear and there's a nice old lady who, you know, put tags on the apparel, but, you know, I was. The sporting goods was my domain.
- [68:10]
Austin Rivers
Yeah. When I was at Sports Authority, I did like the shipping. For some reason. If you ordered at Sports Authority, they shipped it from the store, not from like a warehouse.
- [68:17]
Kyle
Yeah, I'm sure that changed now.
- [68:18]
Austin Rivers
I was there when they went under, which was. Which was fun.
- [68:21]
Kyle
Oh, yeah. Did you get a little. Nice little package?
- [68:23]
Austin Rivers
Oh, I was. I was throwing stuff up in the ceiling. Come the last day, go up there, take it out. 99% off.
- [68:28]
Kyle
Hell yeah. Oh, I see. 99% off. Not free 99, but 99% off.
- [68:34]
Ryan Rosillo
I got it.
- [68:35]
Austin Rivers
Yeah.
- [68:36]
Kyle
Smart man.
- [68:38]
Ryan Rosillo
No tension, right?
- [68:40]
Kyle
Between us. No, I don't think so.
- [68:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. All right. I'd like to put this one to bed after this, but we'll do one more on this interesting fact on gorilla skin. Love the show. 39, 5 foot 9, 70 kilos. Player comp. Anthony Bennett. I score in every fifth game. Good day from down under. That makes sense. It's kind of a theme going on here today with Oregon shirt. Did you get that in Melbourne?
- [69:10]
Austin Rivers
Got that in Melbourne.
- [69:11]
Jonathan
Yeah.
- [69:11]
Austin Rivers
We went for food news like a year ago.
- [69:13]
Kyle
That's right. Great gig, that food news.
- [69:15]
Austin Rivers
Great gig.
- [69:15]
Kyle
Oh yeah, crazy.
- [69:17]
Ryan Rosillo
What are we talking about?
- [69:19]
Austin Rivers
They send us. They send us to Spain two years ago in Australia last year. We go, we eat the food and we come back.
- [69:24]
Kyle
Is that American Airlines?
- [69:26]
Austin Rivers
United. United.
- [69:27]
Kyle
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Dude, what a great gig though. Shout out to them.
- [69:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I still don't know what you're talking about, by the way.
- [69:36]
Austin Rivers
I barely know Juliet.
- [69:37]
Kyle
Libman and Jacoby do a podcast about food news, so. Yeah. And then they get to go places.
- [69:45]
Jonathan
What.
- [69:45]
Kyle
What kind of plane seats are you getting there? Are you.
- [69:48]
Ryan Rosillo
We're.
- [69:48]
Austin Rivers
We're business class.
- [69:49]
Kyle
Business class? Yeah. So jealous.
- [69:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Very nice.
- [69:52]
Kyle
Nice job by you.
- [69:53]
Austin Rivers
It's a good time.
- [69:54]
Ryan Rosillo
I regret asking a couple follow ups because that's not going to go over. Well, that I didn't know that. But hey, playoffs locked in. All right. Want to share some interesting facts that may make things a tad more complicated on the gorilla verse 100 man scenario? One of my friends, zookeeper. That's a great friend to have. Doug the zookeeper. As you guessed it, he looks after gorillas. He mentioned if the remaining 30 men were able to blind the gorilla, that would be their best bet. However, morale might be down after watching 70 men turn into paste. The most intriguing point he raised, which I wanted to share with you, is the skin of gorillas quite tough. And even if you try to punch the gorilla, you will be the one to get hurt. They simply don't feel pain like we do. Their skin is too thick. After doing a quick Google, it appears their bones are also thicker than ours. I figured the bones were thicker. I guess the Kevlar skin going with it. Look, my point still stands. You gotta want it. You gotta want it really bad. You know, if you read about Sparta, they basically just boys in cages and, you know, wrestle each other to the death. And so maybe you have a hundred people growing up that way. I don't know if this conversation is examination of Gen Z. I don't know if it is. You know, we're not making them like we used to.
- [71:14]
Kyle
It just sounds like a bar conversation to me. It's like, I can't believe it's getting so much traction. I feel like dudes have been having this conversation for years with various animals and whatever. So I'm just surprised this caught on so well. It's like, you know, it's just a Wednesday afternoon at the Frolic, if you ask me. But I love that everyone's so into it. I'm getting texts from all over the place. I've just been being quiet.
- [71:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Was it just started with a guy? Because the cool tweets start lowercase. Okay. So I don't know if that falls into this category because then you can see, like one of your friends thinks he has just a banger and he starts with maybe a lowercase. I like seven retweets. This one didn't hit. I may promote one. I may just spend a stupid amount of money, write it off. Which again, doesn't really, really do the wonders that you think like a Seinfeld episode. But I just a terrible one. And that'll be the joke. It'll be an expensive joke, but we'll see. Totally worth it.
- [72:17]
Kyle
Totally worth it.
- [72:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Van Pelt and I did something. Could you fight a wolf? Could you beat a wolf if you had a bat and catcher's equipment. So you have the full chest protector, I believe the mask. Oh, wait, was it without a bat? Yeah, because with a bat, I think it's not really much. People say yes. Most people say yes. Right? So I think it was you would wrap your arm in the chest protector or whatever. And granted, ultimately that turned into one of our most popular segments very early on. So dudes fighting animals.
- [72:52]
Austin Rivers
Now.
- [72:53]
Ryan Rosillo
This isn't new. All right, on the hook for two pontoons, fellas. 570. Whoops. 510 once. I was going to say you might want to check that pontoon a little bit more.
- [73:08]
Kyle
He's got time together. Dude, what the.
- [73:10]
Ryan Rosillo
I know. 5 10, 1 70. Don't max but rep 185 nine times on the bench. All right, don't play basketball, but on the softball field, I can be any iteration of Trevor story at any given time. Maybe a little Ben Zobrist. I write this in anticipation of an upcoming bachelor party. The groomed to be, let's call him P.J. invited groups from different points in his life to spend a long weekend at a lake in the southeast. 17 people are going. So it's a big group. I have five of those numbers saved as contacts. So it's safe to say the group I'm in is the smallest sect of the overall group. Well, I don't know that you know that because if we're talking, let's say 16 with the Bachelor or if he's in it. So all right, say five or seven. You know, there could be a couple singles in this thing as well. So this is. Is it to turn. Do we already know that there's a group of nine from a previous run making the the groups combine as. As we all know can be dangerous. We're a couple weeks away from the trip, and a buddy today texted started talking about renting a boat. One guy, name unknown, number not saved, mentioned that he rented two pontoon boats for one day. I was sent a text outside of the group about how two boats was maybe overkill. Okay, so this guy emailing was sent an inquiry outside of the main thread. So an off ramp of questions and then another text about how everyone will be expected to pay. I'll answer my first question. Is it a bitch move for me to preemptively go to the council about how to handle this instead of just sending a text to the big group? Yeah, probably. So remember, all these conversations about the boat concerns are happening with a small group of guys who don't know the majority of the guys. All right, so if we're going based on this information, then maybe it isn't four sex, it's five. The Bachelor, and then you know it could be 12 other dudes. Second question. If we get there and everyone is expected to pay for the two votes, what's your thoughts on that? No one is saying it would be sick. No one would say it wouldn't be sick to spend a day out of boat. I think a couple people would have just liked a discussion before being expected to pay for a decision they had no part in making. Let me know your thoughts. I was concerned that this email alone could hurt the group dynamic. I texted pj, an avid Priscilla listener, what he thought about me emailing. He said he was all for it. I'm just wondering, do you not like the potential boat cost? Do you not like, you know, the idea that there's two boats? Right. Or do you not like that decisions have been made?
- [75:39]
Kyle
Right.
- [75:40]
Ryan Rosillo
And you know what I mean? Is this not saying you have a problem with authority? Because that would be a massive assumption after a few sentences. So I'm not saying that, but I am wondering it just in general because haven't been through the game before. I just know there's always a few guys. It's like, why are we doing that? Well, guy, it's a bachelor party, so we're gonna fucking do something, all right? And money is going to be involved, reservations, planning. Like, we could do none of it. We could do none of it, then get there and be like, what do you want to do today? But there always feels, I don't know, that it would go turn into something as excessive as, like, the alpha thing. But I just know there's always a few dudes out there that want to ask questions just because they don't like the decisions were made without them. Now, if we're talking about a financial part of it, like, okay, sure, but, you know, how old are you again? Our guy, he didn't say how old he was. The zookeeper friend was 39. You know, it's a bachelor party. I mean, there are going to be costs. So you kind of already know what you're signing up for. And yes, because you probably have in your sect or your current role the least amount of juice. I mean, you can go in and start asking, but then there's going to be another side text about you guys been like, hey, how come Rhode Island's fucking telling us what to do? So I just don't know that you have the delegates. So I don't. I just. I look as I get older and maybe I'm speaking from a position where I don't have to really worry about any of this. Stuff anymore. You know, again, I kind of default to like, you knew you were all going to have to like kick in for certain things that you would have to do. So what's the hold up here? I'm like, just get there and have a good time and don't worry about any of this stuff. But younger guys like to worry about really pointless shit.
- [77:31]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [77:31]
Ryan Rosillo
And I think this is an example, man.
- [77:35]
Jonathan
Yeah.
- [77:36]
Kyle
I've only been to one bachelor party, which was my own, and I'm not sure how many I'm going to get to go to. A lot of dudes kind of skip that whole part. We're on kid number two. I just don't know when he's going to fit in that bachelor party. If they're married after a couple, I don't know. So I got hope for my guy Tate. Hopefully that works out. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know how many times I'm going to be in this situation. What was the group's relationship? This five person group?
- [78:01]
Ryan Rosillo
We don't have that info.
- [78:02]
Kyle
We don't know because the one thing I noticed at mine, it seemed like dudes were like, both felt like they were the more important group. Like the one guys I knew for like 15 years, you know what I mean? The other guys are like, well, we were roommates for like three years straight and we probably know a lot more about him than you do in that point of view. And it was sort of like you.
- [78:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Had a real Kyloff.
- [78:22]
Kyle
Yeah, yeah. For real. And, and, and we didn't. Like you said, we kind of woke up. Dudes were like, should we go back to secrets? Like there was no plans, you know, like, I think they open at 8. Should we, should we just go there and have like some orange juice and figure out what's next? So it. That it sort of reared its head in that thing where dudes were just like, you know, well, there's four of us that don't want to go there and there's whatever. So I wonder if it's like, I think continuing the side text and riling each other up probably is going to take away from the final product of the hanging. And again, I didn't really have to pay for anything but my flight to get there. So I don't really know how many extra fees came up and I didn't really hear dudes bitching about it. But afterwards, once the fun was had, I heard about all the extra fees that some dudes didn't want and all that stuff. But I think it could just get messy when you blend the groups as you talked about. And I think you just try to keep it all on the main chat, you know, or say nothing. And just like you said, it's. It's a bachelor party. Expect to spend more than you want to. So I think you could totally complicate it more if you guys five stew about this thing, the extra pontoon boat or whatever. I say just get on the boats, dude.
- [79:29]
Austin Rivers
I feel like what my friend group does is like, here are the activities. Everything's like a la carte. If you want to come, here's the cost. If not, we'll figure it out. But I went to a bachelor party.
- [79:39]
Kyle
Sounds very efficient.
- [79:41]
Austin Rivers
December in Tampa, and we rented two boats. Not a good time. Not a good time. It was super cold out. We were just drinking on the boats. It's way colder on the boat than it is on land. I know I'm not breaking news here, but we were just sitting there drinking beers, and at one point, my one friend goes, is anybody having a good time right now? Not fun.
- [80:03]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [80:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Checking out the Corometer.
- [80:04]
Kyle
Starts to sting at that point, right? Yeah.
- [80:07]
Austin Rivers
Yeah. We would have had way more fun just sitting in the dock on the boat, drinking. Didn't need to take them out.
- [80:13]
Kyle
Probably a different price.
- [80:14]
Austin Rivers
Yeah. Don't got to refill them at that point.
- [80:18]
Ryan Rosillo
If I knew the town, you know, if you said, hey, we're going to Miami, and the guy rented two boats, I'd be like, okay, that might be. That might be more than everybody else wants to chip in.
- [80:28]
Kyle
Yeah. If we're talking Lake George, maybe it's a little different.
- [80:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. So if we're looking at this guy, I mean, does the guy have any experience with this? Does he know the area? Has he done it before? Does he know that 17 is actually like two smaller lake kind of pontoon boats? Like, does that make way more sense? Dueling boats, boat races, both on activities. The duality of that. There's a really great version of all of this happening. So, sure, maybe the guy who's making the plans is unhinged and getting ahead of himself, but you're going to a bachelor's party, and I know you're already spending money on travel and accommodations and all that kind of stuff, but, like, the whole point of it is there's actually supposed to be some things, unless you guys want to sit around and talk about your feelings, which I don't think happens at many of these. So I think you just have to suck it up and I would, I would advise you to, you know, don't be a disruptor here.
- [81:27]
Kyle
You know what would be funny is if they were. The second boat was the spillover for just them. And all five guys that didn't want to be on the boats are just in their own pondu pontoon boat and the bachelor's over there with those guys.
- [81:39]
Ryan Rosillo
A 12,5 pontoon ratio. Yeah.
- [81:42]
Kyle
You guys are like, I don't know, you're just stewing in the, in the other boat. I hope that's not the case.
- [81:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Sometimes two boats can be the move. I. There's still this story from the college buddies.
- [81:51]
Kyle
Could be the move.
- [81:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think it was in the Keys. I don't know. I forget I had a long stretch of not being invited to anything just because everybody knew I couldn't afford anything. So they were just like, what's going on with that guy? Like, I don't know.
- [82:02]
Kyle
That's never fun to say. And you had to say it so many times in a row.
- [82:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, no, I mean I would be like, what a dude. Like, oh, you didn't hear about the trip last month? I'm like, I did not. I did not hear about it. And again, there was no social media, so it wasn't like you had no chance of feeling left out unless it was like an actual phone call from somebody. So I knew I, I just was. And we've covered this, but I was always like, I'm not really even. You'd like to be asked. But you know, you keep saying no. I mean, this is the other lesson that we've tried to tell people. You keep saying no to all the stuff from your core group in those formative post college years. You're gonna end up like, I had to like work. I had to like put time back into being like, I'd like to.
- [82:45]
Kyle
You got relegated. Make it up to the big leagues again.
- [82:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's still, there's still one wedding. I think it was like the first weekend I was doing college football. And again, we're all from the northeast for the most part, so guys would just. They never thought a fall wedding was a bad idea. And so I was just like, I can't do this. It was a college roommate sucks. So whatever.
- [83:11]
Kyle
You're on a two way contract with your friend.
- [83:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah, pretty much like we can't keep 10 daying them. We're going to have to guarantee this or cut him at some point. But yeah, I guess the story is there was a bunch of dudes in the keys. So it was all the guys that were the guys for the most part. Except someone had an older brother who invited friends, but they actually did all of the boat stuff. And I mean, this is just kind of how terrible. All of us were in our 20s, but my guys got to the boat ahead of time even though they didn't rent it out. And then people were like, should we eat? And they were like, no, there's food on the boat. It's like, yeah, food on the boat. For the guys that rented it and actually are adults and put down credit cards and had food ordered for their fishing group and sounds like a disaster. When my guy showed up, they ate all of the food. It's like the first time in history that my group would have been early to something. They all of the food. The older brother showed up of one of the guys with his few friends for like a real adult fishing trip. And my guys were already banged up from the night before and about to make even bigger mistakes that day and night. And they ate all of their food. And so then a guy came up with like an empty tinfoil tray that had coconut shrimp in there and he was like, hey, is there another tray of this?
- [84:36]
Kyle
Oh, no. The beginning of the downhill slide.
- [84:40]
Ryan Rosillo
So look, just. I think Kyle brings up a great point. If there's a 125 split, maybe you can fight back on the cost a little bit. Okay, how about this one? Should I tank a job reference player comp Greg Ostertag. Stick me in the paint and let me rebound and get in the way defensively, but keep the ball out of my hands. I have a guy I work with who hasn't been the happiest in his job. We have a great friendship, mentorship. This is his first job out of college, so he's not in the exact field he wants to be in, which is mine, I guess, to the point of the emailer. The guy wants to be in the emailers field. We work in different areas of our organization. I'm working on moving out of my role in the next couple of years and want him to take my job when I transition. He's been interviewing at a different organization, but I don't think it's a great fit for him. I don't really think he does either. I just think he wants to switch job areas that I ultimately think it'll end up being a mistake for him to make this move for a variety of reasons. It triples his commute and our field often has to work late or show up really early, depending on the day. This new organization has different views and goals than our current one. And I know he aligns better with ours. How should I handle this? Should I tank the reference he asked for? I obviously think he's great and has tremendous potential, but I'm not sure he could make this move. Or should I just let him make the move and learn from the potential mistake? I also want to be the mentor I wish I had when I was his age.
- [86:07]
Kyle
Just tell him you like him already. Dude. I'm just kidding. Why could has he told him this? Couldn't you just tell him that and then give him a glowing reference like you would a friend? Just tell him how you feel instead.
- [86:19]
Jonathan
Of what's going on.
- [86:20]
Kyle
Trying to like Michael Scott. This whole thing with whatever these gymnastics, mental gymnastics you're doing, you could just tell him if you're the mentor, he probably values your opinion and just say, yeah. I think for these three incredibly simple reasons, this is why I think this is not good. But I got your back, buddy. That sounds like everyone can sleep at night.
- [86:41]
Austin Rivers
I don't know, it's just the most obvious answer, like, what are we doing? Like, just have a simple conversation with this guy. Like, hey, I'll write you this if you want, but don't just tank this guy's chances.
- [86:54]
Kyle
It sounds a little crazy when I said it and then you said it sounds crazier.
- [87:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Can you just read it? Can you forward him this email?
- [87:04]
Kyle
Mine is the should I tank his future at this company thing.
- [87:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Here's why you don't want to tank the reference. Because if it's all under the same umbrella and it seems like everybody wants to stay here and look, even if somebody ended up moving laterally to a different organization but in the same industry, you just don't want that out there. I mean, not to go an episode of the Office here, but when Michael thinks that he's potentially going to lose some power to Jim by being co managers, but didn't realize that he was actually going to get himself a promotion so he didn't want to get in his own way. So he sort of tanks Jim to David Wallace and then David Wallace is like, yeah, but we were going to move you up to sort of like overseas stuff in a region and less day to day. And then Michael loves it and then starts trying to sell David Wallace on Jim. And it's at that point David's like, yeah, but you just said he's a bit aloof. You know, I don't know how Jim was getting promoted anyway. You want to talk about looks bias? Dwight took the job way more seriously. Totally. Than Jim ever did. And then Jim gets a haircut and a couple Banana Republic suits and he's good to go. Pam alone would have. Would have made me think you realize they stole a baby. Anyway, look, I just don't know that you want an officially tanked reference on this guy's record. Especially when it seems like you think he has all these great qualities and he's a friend. I mean, I would be furious with you if you did this. Like, who the fuck you think you are, Bane?
- [88:40]
Kyle
Yeah, that for your own good thing does not play as adults. I think, like, I did it for your own good. That's. I don't think you can do that anymore. This. When we're all adults.
- [88:54]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, I guess we have time for one more here. Mover pooped in my new house before me. 6 foot 195, no impressive gym stats, basketball game. Malcolm Delaney, Very forgettable, but I can make the occasional mid range jumper. I like Malcolm. After years of saving and navigating the crazy real estate market in my large southeastern city, who knows? You got any leads on any pontoons down there? My wife and I were finally able to buy our first house earlier this month. By the way, congratulations. First time through, it's terrible. And guess what? It's also terrible every time after that. You know, the only thing, it's a lot like getting older, buying a house and everything that goes with it. Am I going to get it? Am I not going to get it? All that different stuff, after you've done it a few times, it doesn't hurt as much because you already know how much it's going to suck going into it the first time. I mean, I was like, this can't possibly be the way it's like, yes, this is the way. What should have been one of the happiest weekends of our lives quickly turned south after our refrigerator's water filter malfunction and flooded nearly an entire first floor. Luckily, insurance was able to cover it completely, so we're getting new floors soon. Shout out to State Farm. All right. Glad they could do that for you. Sounds like you guys are a good team. Additionally, we still had a month on our lease at our current apartment, so there's no rush. All right. Okay, cool. Nearing the end of our lease, we decided to hire movers to get the majority of our apartment contents moved over to the house. The movers were a company that our realtor recommended and didn't think twice. Come the Day of the move, they call us to let us know they'll be arriving at our apartment two hours late. Two hours becomes five hours. They get to our places at 7pm and clearly working in a rush to get home. I don't need to bore you with the details of the rest of the move. We eventually got to my house and one of the movers decides to immediately poop in one of my toilets. Without asking, mind you, he picks the one bathroom that doesn't have any soap. I'm upset because he was likely touching my stuff with poop fingers. But I also felt slighted as a man that I didn't get to take the first poop in my new house. I really don't love this content, but we're going with it, right? It was too late. Now I've told my wife how I feel about this. She thinks I'm overreacting. Is there no code when it comes to doing this in another man's house?
- [90:58]
Kyle
I feel like movers are sort of like mercenaries, you know, in like those old timey, like old period piece movies when you got to bring in the mercenaries. Everyone's just like, we need them, but oh shit, they might start a fire or something. Like, they're certainly a necessary evil if you're trying to like, you know, hyperlink. Yeah, but sometimes they'll poop in your toilet first. I think that's honestly on par. It's like par for the course. I think with movers you're certainly rolling the dice. I'm sure there's some absolute A plus movers out there that are super professional and efficient when moving stuff, but I haven't seen them.
- [91:34]
Austin Rivers
Unless you're going to hang up a sign outside the bathroom like, hey, I haven't pooped in here yet. Please hold off. I don't know what they're. How are they supposed to know?
- [91:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Do those signs exist? You got to make very specific.
- [91:44]
Kyle
The handwritten note.
- [91:45]
Austin Rivers
You got to make them. Yeah, staples, 89 cents a page, handwritten note.
- [91:52]
Ryan Rosillo
I totally get how you feel. I mean, I had sort of the inverse when I was moving out. Guy showed up late, right. First thing he did, he was so late, so hungover. I mean, I could just see his face. I was like, this guy was on one last night. And then just. It was the smallest apartment. The bathroom was right in the middle of the entire thing.
- [92:11]
Kyle
The hearth of the home, if you will.
- [92:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Right, right. The fireplace would have been a better choice. And he just destroyed the whole apartment after being late. And then, you know, again at least.
- [92:24]
Austin Rivers
You'Re moving out, though, right?
- [92:26]
Ryan Rosillo
But then they got my floors muddy when I moved into the new place, and the guy was, like, basically demanding a tip, but in his fingers looked like. I mean, it looked like he was dating steel wool, so. Look, I totally get where you're coming from, man. I totally get it. But Kyle's 100, right? Movers do not conform to societal norms because it is one of the worst fucking jobs of all time. And the reason it sucks. I don't know what it is about moving. I don't know what it is about the emotional part of it. Like, I've moved out of places I could not wait to leave, and yet there's some finality, you know, that's. It's a very obvious point on your timeline. And I don't know what that shift is, because I personally like moving. I like moving. Every few years, I need change. I need to move to new cities and I. You know, new jobs. Like, I usually. Although I'm. Oddly enough, I think I've only worked professionally, like, sort of two and a half places. But look, the job for them, though, like, when we're done. My last move was terrible because I didn't have deadlines. So it just dragged and it lurked and it hung. Hung over my head like an appointment or if I'd been younger, like a paper, the worst paper that could ever possibly do be due, and I've done no work for it. And every day it's one day closer to being due. And all I can do is think about it. I'm just consumed by it. And so that's kind of how I think about moving sometimes. Imagine if when you did it professionally, you just. It was never over. Now they don't have the emotional attachment. There's no finality to it. It's just that, hey, all of these things have to be moved from here to. And then tomorrow, then we get to do it all over again.
- [94:04]
Kyle
Also, if we finish this one early enough, we got to get to the other one.
- [94:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah. Hey, let's go faster so we can do another place. So you're totally. I think you're fine. I don't even know that you're necessarily overreacting. Some people may say, hey, you know, nature's nature, you got to go, or whatever, but I'll tell you who doesn't care is that mover. He forgot. He's done this so many times, he didn't even remember your job.
- [94:33]
Kyle
Well, for your second house, maybe just. They get the keys. Just, you know, just so you could have it on the record.
- [94:41]
Austin Rivers
Yeah. When you tore it, get in there early.
- [94:44]
Ryan Rosillo
What if there was. What if there was like an underserved market for that sign? Probably.
- [94:50]
Austin Rivers
Shark Tank, here we come.
- [94:52]
Kyle
We should have a resillo store just for niche signs and T shirts.
- [94:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I know when I see a place that's empty, you just, whenever I drive through a town and something's empty with like a good location or like, what would work in there and be like, none of your ideas. None. All right. Thanks to Oregon. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Jonathan Frius for help on the video as we are a video podcast now on the Spotify app. Listen and now can watch. You can also subscribe to our YouTube page. The Ryan Rosilla podcast Ring or Spotify.
- [95:19]
Austin Rivers
They were going to name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it. So they named me Michael. Jared.
- [95:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Must be 21 and older. Present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.