← The Ryen Russillo Podcast
The Ryen Russillo Podcast
Russell Wilson and NFL QB Desperation. Plus, a Big Picture Luka Chat With ‘The Wonder Boy’ Author Tim MacMahon.
01:33:44
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- [00:00]
Ryan Russillo
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Kyle Cerutty
Start Just talking a little bit about the Russell Wilson contract, what it means, concerns I have for the Giants and the Giants signing backups. And really, should you be doing that? Because there aren't a lot of backups to pick from, so the depth there at least is good for New York. We'll look at the backup market in general. The Wonder Boy Luka Doncic the book is out this week. The author, Tim McMahon, will go over all of the prequels, stuff to how this trade actually happened and what we hear a retort from Brian Winhorst on their podcast and life advice. This episode is brought to you by the Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card this is an ad for the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game with your mom or grabbing a coffee with your dog, or earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases made with it, say it with me. The Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more@wells fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply It's March, it's 2025. Where is your backup quarterback awareness for the NFL? Mine is locked in right now. I was looking at a list the other day and I was like, man, that list seems bleak. Still, a few moves to be made. I don't know if it's just in the moment going, that doesn't look good. Where if I did the exercise every single March, every single year, I'd be like, that doesn't look good. But this just feels bad. We're going to get to some of the backup quarterback options here in a second, but let's start with a starter, I guess, and that's Russell Wilson to your New York Giants. So the deal was first reported as one year 21 million. That's not going to happen. It's ten and a half million guaranteed. The incentives are going to make him a few million more if he plays every game, if he wins a bunch of games. But to make the full 21, the stuff that I was looking at this morning, again, a lot of this stuff is very misleading on the headline. It looks good for the agent, it looks good for the player. Like, hey, 20 million for Russ be like, yep, he would have to win, I think, like every game and then make the playoffs. And if you go undefeated, chances are you're going to be in the playoffs. So clearly he's going to make a few million more. I would Imagine he is the starter based on him deciding to sign there, even though James Winston was just signed for two years and like 8 million base. So when you just look at the numbers, you're like, okay, Wilson, clearly the priority, and then still the scenario of whether or not the Giants would take a quarterback with their pick at the top of the first round. So why would the Giants do this? Because I've seen a couple different theories and let's try to explore all of them. Is it because of the lack of quarterback depth around the league? Because, you know, it feels like every year a couple guys get hurt. There's a very repeated talking point of there's just not enough quarterbacks, right? There's just not enough quarterback. I just feel like right now. And then coming off of the anticipation. So I shouldn't say coming off of this draft because it hasn't actually happened, but we already know, like, this is not the greatest quarterback draft. The depth of actually guys who are going to be taken. It's just not the same as a lot of other years. So are we seeing teams more desperate to sign some names to become a backup? Or in this case, the Giants quarterback rumor? It's like, let's just bring somebody in here. At least at one point. From a talent perspective, we liked who flamed out somewhere else as a first round pick, or Russell Wilson, who, you know, let's get to the debate on who he is right now. At least there's something there. As Eric Mangini told me once, he was talking about, I think it was Matt Castle. We were sitting there on the show and we were thinking about different quarterback options. And he said something that I'll never forget. Mangini was like, you know, at the very least, when you're desperate, the tiebreaker is, has this guy actually ever done it before? And for Wilson, we know the resume, even if it's heading in the wrong direction. So the old saying goes, because right now the Giants have two quarterbacks, and with the draft, they could have three. If you have two quarterbacks, you have zero. It's a really clever line. It's also kind of stupid because I'd rather have two than zero. I think all of us would rather that. So we understand the dynamic of having to change your mind all the time. The Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie thing was actually bad for the Bills. Well, it was bad ultimately when they made their final decision. But you get the point, like, there's just a lot of extra stuff. Like, I remember having a debate with somebody about if you had a couple top 10 picks. Should you just take two quarterbacks and that way you have a better chance of getting it right considering the burnout rate of these guys that are taking in the first round. It's like, I understand the math part of that, but the reality is, is all of a sudden you're bringing in an unprecedented dynamic of having two top 10 picks or two first round picks of any team were actually to ever do this. Like, yeah, we're breaking camp, these guys are splitting reps, and may the best man win. And the chances are one guy is absolutely not built for that. And you've already fucked up his career before it even started. So Wilson, he's limited, right? He's limited to where he can throw. He's limited on what I think offensive coordinators trust him with. He is somebody that physically, it would make sense that he's not the dynamic athlete that he was before, the guy that could keep plays alive when it looked like they were about to die. He would find ways to complete passes on third down. You know, I used to just love him where it was like, everything looks like it's done, and now you have to figure out a way to make something up here. And I thought he was like one of the best in the game at doing it. It's been a long time since we've seen that consistently delivered on Sundays. The Steelers slide is not all on him. I think that was unfair. You know, whether it was Pickens missing game or the defense falling apart, you know, Pittsburgh at one point was 10 and three, and then we had to start talking about them as a team that could win the afc and then it becomes like, dismissive, like, why can't the Steelers do it? Like, look at the history, look at the defense. Look at. I don't know. Well, we look at the rest of the AFC and considering what the rest of the landscape looked like and the quarterbacks that Pittsburgh was going to have to go through with Russell Wilson taking over for Fields, like a very honest conversation was, yeah, that would seem to be a huge surprise despite the 10 and 3 record and the defensive numbers they were putting up. But the slide wasn't just on Wilson, even though it played out that way, because that's what happens with quarterbacks all the time. Think about it. Through 10 games, they were number two, an opponent's points per game. They were giving up 16 a game. The next eight, including the playoffs, they gave up 26.6 points per game. So they're giving up almost like actually more than 10 points per game over that stretch and somehow that was all Wilson's fault. If you think about Wilson and where he is in the market, I think it's always a good reminder that the NFL, the people who make these personnel decisions, tell us what the league thinks about who a player is at this stage of his career. Wilson was available cheap last year for Pittsburgh, but it wasn't like somebody said, hey, let's do some kind of long term thing here. We'll give you short money in the first year because all the money's coming in from Denver. He made 38 million from Denver last season, so that's why he was basically free for Pittsburgh. But it wasn't like there was a bunch of teams going, oh my God, I can't believe this guy's available and he's going to be free the first year. But let's make sure we have some team protections because we think he's going to be really good. That didn't happen, and then it's happening all over again. And the fact that it's base for one year at 10 million from the Giants, again, the NFL is telling you we think this guy's done. So the question for the Giants here, because I have concerns, is are the Giants the last team to. To. To know that it's over for Wilson and over in the sense that. Not that he can't play or shouldn't be on a team because again, I think it's worth repeating a lot of the stuff that was talked about with him and how much was his fault and how much blame we should have put on him for that slide. I don't know. I mean, look, I didn't love all of it either, but it was really un. I thought it was really, really unfair because I think there's just so many unbelievably stubborn Justin Fields fans out there. But, you know, look, the Giants aren't whatever you think of the Giants. And I know a lot of people like to make fun of Joe Shane in the front office and say these guys are morons after Saquon Barkley has this historic year with the Eagles. But the point stands. The decision was about the Giants needing Saquon Barkley and needing to invest that kind of money in a running back when the rest of the team, they probably weren't going to do that much because they were kind of taking a gap year here with Daniel Jones because they'd already paid him all this money. It felt like kind of a wash year for the Giants and they were making decisions that way. And you know, as much as Saquon was one of the most impressive single offensive stories in the entire league this year, it just didn't really make a lot of sense for the Giants. So it's easy to make fun of them a point and laugh and whatever you want to do, but it felt a lot like a guy who can't pay his rent buying an expensive watch. If the Giants are going to pay Saquon Barkley a ton of money at a position that you probably shouldn't be spending a ton of money on if you don't think the rest of the team is going to be that good, even though there's a lot of people on this roster I actually really like. But I don't think Saquon was going to make the difference. And certainly it was a little bit different, him running behind the Eagles offensive line than the Giants. So are the Giants. Are the Giants the last to know about Russell Wilson? Or are they again, looking around at this position going, well, we bring in Winston, we bring in Wilson, and on top of everything else, we may draft somebody. So at a position that may have the worst depth that we've seen in years, do we have a bunch of different options? And if you want to criticize that and say, well, what kind of QB room is that, you're not wrong. But I'm just trying to understand why they would do some of these things with declining players concern number two is Russ in New York. So I think he's toned it down quite a bit since the Sean Payton year in Denver. I think the first year when he felt like he was finally free and was going to be the full version of Russell Wilson, it was probably the peak annoying. If you like it, you are a better man than I am. But clearly Peyton hated it immediately. There was going to be some kind of like, reset on what Russell Wilson was allowed to do, what he was going to be allowed like to be. I don't know. Look, it just got. It was kind of like, man, now Broncos, country, let's ride. But got annoying and it's always going to be a little weird. It's always going to be a little annoying with him. That's just the Russell Wilson experience. All right. But I did think this was really interesting because I think about him being in New York and wondering is this kind of a fulfillment of something that he had talked about but not talked about years ago? Remember back in It's February of 21. I'm bringing up the story now. Headline quarterback Russell Wilson hasn't demanded a Trade from Seahawks agent sets Mark Rogers tells ESPN Adam Schefter on Thursday. Roger said Wilson has told the Seahawks that he wants to play in Seattle, but if a trade were considered, the only teams he would go to are the Dallas Cowboys, New Orleans Saints, Las Vegas Raiders and Chicago Bears, which was really one of the weirdest stories ever. It's like, we're not demanding a trade, but, but these cities would make sense. And if you talk to enough people, it'd be like, okay, what specifically is it about those cities? And I think a lot of it had to do with the full Russell and his wife experience, essentially being like, which markets would make the most sense for both of them. And clearly like New York. There's a Page Six article already today about their first night in New York City. So I think it's, I think it has a lot to do with wanting to be in New York and whatever the next chapter is for this couple. Yeah, I think that's like a huge priority. Which not like saying, hey, don't go out, don't be famous, but if I'm running a football team, that's gonna make me a little worried about the whole thing. Like I said, there's just always going to be a little extra stuff that, you know, isn't great. It's like, hey, is this going to be about football every week or is this going to be about maximizing your celebrity? And I think if we're all being a little honest, it's probably a mix concern. Number three, the locker room's going to like Jameis more, just like Pittsburgh like Fields more. I think he's an unrelatable dude. And to have Winston in there who thought he was probably going to be the starter and then this Wilson deal happens. I don't know if Winston's a locker room politician. I think he just might be really likable in a country way that relates to way more football players on a 53 man roster. And then on top of that, like, what if you draft Shador Sanders at number three? Like, I kind of want this to happen because you're going to have some strong personalities and is that the best thing for rookie quarterback if you decide to go down that road? Who knows, maybe they trade out of the pick and then try to add some more picks. So I think the last part of this is, you know, last year was a gap year with Daniel Jones. They were hoping maybe like one more ch. You want to talk about the all time tryout for quarterback. It's going to be tough to break The Daniel Jones experiment record. And maybe the positive is, is after knowing like this season's kind of lost with Jones because it went more likely that I more it ended up going the way more people thought it would go. Then all of a sudden this miraculous turnaround. If you draft a QB now, I guess you have three options, which gets back to the original line of like, how many options do you really have? Even though I think the line is clever and pretty misleading, maybe it has to do with the backups. And that's where we started this conversation. If you look at the backups in this league, God, this feels like it's worse than before. I mean, there was a tweet the other day where somebody was ranking them. They had Zach Wilson third, which I think that feels a little high. But Miami actually was proactive about this with Tua's injury history knowing, okay, you really need somebody you can kind of trust if you want to get like, kind of like the Jacoby Brissette thing in Arizona. Like, if Jacoby has to play for a month, if Kyler gets hurt. And Kyler was, you know, much better last year than all of the ups and downs stuff that we've seen from him health wise. But Kyler for the most part stayed healthy. The expectation is he's probably going to miss some time. If Brissette has to play for a month, you at least feel like you have a chance. Zach Wilson has the second worst passer rating of any active quarterback with 15 or more starts. And the Dolphins were like, we got him. You have Garoppolo back in la. Shanahan in San Francisco wanted Mac Jones. They were like, sweet. Cooper Rush goes to Baltimore. Teddy Bridgewater's in Detroit. You know, Stidham got a two year deal with Denver to keep him there. I know Kirk Cousins is like the best backup, but that's kind of weird. But maybe that's why Atlanta's going to be stubborn and hang on for a little while. I mean, I know everybody loves Joe Milton videos. I like Todd Rod Taylor. Tyrod Taylor was ranked seventh on one list. He should be like, I miss Gardner midshoe. You know, Spencer Rattler the man now is Malik Willis the dude? Or is this how how it is? A bunch of different years, but I think that's kind of what it is, man. Like, there's not a lot of depth of the position. But the question for the Giants is, do you have a ton of depth and no starter? The Ryan Marcilla podcast is brought to you by fanduel. It's the final stretch of the NBA season, the playoff picture is changing by the minute. Every three pointer or fourth quarter comeback means that much more. And with live betting on FanDuel, you can make the playoff picture a little prettier. So whether you're looking to ride with a hot shooter or think a team is due for a run, you can get in on the action until the final buzzer with America's number one sports book. 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Official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 and older and present in select states or 18 plus and present first online real money wager only $5 first deposit required. A bonus issued is non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after a seat restrictions apply. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler visit RG D help.com this episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. I love this time of the year because of the NFL draft and all the conversations around it. But you know, when you're an NFL owner, you got to make sure you're aligned with your gm. I think everybody thinks that they are. That doesn't always work out. If you're a gm, you're trying to figure out does this player who's talented, does his talent fit what we're trying to do? And by the way, will the coach I've hired or maybe inherited, will he optimize the talent of a player that doesn't fit the scheme or what he's trying to do day to day. Really all cool, complicated, fun sports stuff, but it applies to kind of the everyday business world. Just like those GM small businesses like yours need to build the strongest team possible. Well, better hire. Start with Smarter Insights. And LinkedIn has the data to help you make the best hiring decisions. LinkedIn gives you candidate insights you can't find anywhere else, which is why 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within 24 hours of posting a job. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com Ryan R Y E N that's LinkedIn.com Ryan to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. The book is out now, and the timing is perfect. The wonder boy, Luka Doncic and The author, Tim McMahon joins us now. Tim from ESPN. And also the Neutral Corner on the Hoop Collective podcast with Brian Windhorse and Tim Bontemps. What's up, man? It's good to see you.
- [18:43]
Ryan Russillo
Howdy, partner. I appreciate you having me. Neutral Corner. I don't know. I think I'm more the instigator. I do. I enjoy when those guys spar a little bit. And frankly, bond. Timps is a. An inviting punching bag.
- [18:58]
Kyle Cerutty
I enjoy the pod. I mean, it's. It's one of the few that I consistently am, like, always checking in on just because I think when you do the job, especially three pods a week, you're like, okay, I've done what I've. I don't know that I want to listen to anybody else talk about the same things that I just got done talking with. But look, you guys have all covered the league a long time. You had perspective that, that I certainly can't always add. And look, you're the guy that I wanted to hear from when the LUCA trade went down, and perfect timing, you're writing a book about him. So there's a bunch of different ways I could go, but I guess I don't want to do a ton of Mavs history as much as I want to get in the LUCA timeline, because I was reading the final chapter that was added to it, and it's. It's funny. As I'm reading, it's like, okay, here's another calf strain, and this is calf strain number four, and this one's going to be even worse. And now there's a medical team situation where his group is fired, but then the new group won't share MRIs with the team. So, like, you're laying out the timeline of this massive disconnect to further explain how we got here and Nico trading him to the Lakers. But then ultimately, like, every time I start understanding, like, oh, okay, this makes a little bit, then it's like, yeah, I still can't believe they did this. So let's, let's go back to when you think the disconnect first started so honestly.
- [20:10]
Ryan Russillo
And look like obviously the conditioning has always been a thing, a concern with Luke, even back before the draft. But in terms of the disconnect with the Mavericks organization, I think a massive thing that happened that was under the radar at the time. And I'm going to say this, and people can be like, really? But when they fired Casey Smith, who was one of the most respect, respected people in the entire league in the athletic training field, he was the Mavericks head athletic trainer for years and years and years, became, you know, oversaw that group, the health and performance group, as part of the front office. He was a critical, critical part of the culture of the Mavericks, of the fabric of the Mavericks, was there for 20 years. Is one of Dirk Nowitzki's best friends, was tight with Jason Kidd. He's now working for the New York Knicks. Not a coincidence. Jalen Brunson loved him. So did Luca. And that happened in August 2023. And I reported at a time he was reassigned to, you know, sit at home and twiddle his thumbs for the final year of his contract. I reported it then, but didn't really dive into it because I was like, okay, let's. I think this is going to be a big thing. Let's see, it's going to be part of a bigger story. Let's see how it develops. Well, and then they went to the Finals, right? So it's like, well, you know, I guess it didn't have major immediate ramifications. Then Nico also fired their longtime strength coach, Jeremy Holsople, their longtime manual therapist, massage therapist, Casey Spangler. Again, all people who predated Luca and Dallas, all people who had great relationships with Luca and Dallas, all people who were part of him making this massive cultural transition from Europe as a teenager to not just America and Dallas, but to the NBA. All inner circle people for him who he liked, but more importantly, he respected, he trusted. And then Nico brought in people who were referred to around the Mavericks as Nico's guys. And Luca didn't know them then particularly like them, didn't trust them. Now Luca does have his own body team, which started last year, but just the, the working room. And that's not unusual, right? You know, that like for a superstar to have his Own guys, whether it's a, you know, massage therapist, strength coach, physical therapy, whatever, like these. A lot of these superstars have these, you know, body teams. Often they're good working relationships with the teams, with the. With the franchise. That wasn't the case this year. And that was part of the, you know, the, the lead up to this trade. And then, you know, obviously the fourth calf strain in a 28 month span. Nico certainly was frustrated, feeling like, hey, you're not taking care of your body, you're not putting in the work, you're not doing the preparation. This is kind of what happens. You know, Luca's side would say, well, we rushed back from the calf strain and training camp that, by the way, you reported as a contusion to get ready and then rushed back from a heel bruise just before Christmas. Was playing on our tippy toes or on his tippy toes. And yeah, stuff happens. It's unfortunate. Whatever. Whatever side you want to take. This all leads to just Nico being so frustrated, feeling like we can't invest in this guy. Can invest the supermax deal and traded him while he really only got one bid. I mean, not. He didn't. Oh, yeah. Like flat out only got one bid.
- [23:48]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah.
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Ryan Russillo
So you gave up on this generational talent who was at the time 25, about to turn 26. And people I've talked to around the league, there's. There's two camps. One, you just can't give up on that kind of a talent unless you've got the proverbial gun to your head. You have to trade them, which was not the case here. Two, there are people who say, you know what? I get wanting to get out of the Luke of business because of these concerns, but you have to maximize the return. And I have not talked to a single person outside of the Mavericks organization who feels like Dallas did that.
- [24:20]
Kyle Cerutty
Do you think that Nico. It's described as, I don't know if obsession of Kobe is fair, if you wanted to say admiration of Kobe. But the fact that Nico was so tight with Kobe, the Polinka relationship that I do want to get to here was Nico holding. You know, sometimes the Kobe, you know, mythology, though, can be, I can find personally annoying, as if he's the only player who was ever in the gym early. Like, he's just, you know, like it was him and then everybody else was behind him and when it came to work ethic. But was that something that made Nico pursue, like an unobtainable story for Luca? Like, did that get in the way.
- [25:02]
Ryan Russillo
Of his Evaluation, it's, it's certainly the standard for Nico. Right? And Nico had relationships with a lot of guys over the years at Nike. None like he did with Kobe. I mean he worked his way up the ranks at Nike in large part by being Kobe's guy and then, and then working up from there. And like look, when Kyrie tore his ACL about a month after the trade, Nico puts out a statement and he references Kobe in the statement talking about, you know, I've raising Kyrie's work ethic but bringing up Kobe as the comparison. And Nico said, you know, I've lived it. So yes there is is this relationship that Nico had with Kobe basically his, that's his vision of the superstar. That's his vision of a face of the franchise. That's his standard, high standard for work ethic. And you know, listen, Luca doesn't fit into that mold. Like Luca does enjoy to have a post game brewski or two ski or six ski, you know, like Luca, I mean the man is going to eat steak and potatoes and the weight fluctuates and you know, all, all these kind of things. He's a five time first team all NBA selection who's yet to hit his prime years. He averaged 34, 10 and 9, led the league in scoring, led the Mavs to the finals wall by the way. Playing the most minutes over the regular season and playoffs of anybody in the NBA. And you know, honestly he had Kobe's stamp of approval. You know, I mean sadly the last NBA game that Kobe attended was courtside at, you know, Staples center then. And yes, that's the scene where he's famously started talking some trash and sloveni. When Luke was about to inbound the ball, Luca turns around and it's Kobe, you know, with, with his daughter, with Gigi. And Gigi's favorite player was Luka Doncic. Kobe brought his daughter the game to see Luca. You know, Kobe and Luca had a moment after the game and I mean Kobe loved the kids game. Now look, I obviously he wasn't with him on a day to day basis evaluating the work ethic. But again, Luke is not the first superstar who's, you know, had a little bit, you know, had a healthy appetite and who, you know, maybe didn't enjoy the, the rigorous mundane preparation details and who would have an adult beverage or three or four. So the production, to me that kind of production gives a guy a lot of leeway. But again Nico's bet is that the body's going to break down in his prime and he Feared giving him the supermax, and he punted on him. I would say prematurely.
- [28:02]
Kyle Cerutty
So the other part of this is the relationship with Pelinka, and this is the thing that I will forever be fascinated with. It's just the. Those GM moments, you know, like the rest of us who've never done it, who talk about it non stop, like, oh, this guy should have done this. He should have done this. And it's like, man, I just wonder what it would be like to be in that position. It's like you have to say yes or no to this, like, team altering thing. And, you know, normally it would be an easy answer for something like this, but because he's so close with Palinka, you have to think if there's years of frustration since Nico first entered the building with Luka, like, he's sharing that with Pelinka, you know, and. And there's other.
- [28:39]
Ryan Russillo
It wasn't a secret around the league. I'll say that, you know, Luca's weight fluctuates. Was not some kind of like, oh, really, Gee whiz, I know. Who would have ever known?
- [28:48]
Kyle Cerutty
But I guess, like, once it's finally addressed at a hotel in Dallas when the Lakers are in town and it's gone from I want AD to. Would you consider AD for Luca? Pelinka is operating from a position of strength based on the information. There's just no way over the course of those years that, you know, if you're all of these 30 guys are competing with each other, there's no way that you're not like. And that kind of gets into the how much can you actually talk? Which relationships actually are friendships, you know, really, maybe none of them should be friendships. But there has to be part of Blink that's think, okay, he is. He's like, real about this. He's. He's upset. And then, of course, Blink is saying, well, if we have to keep it a secret, then as you point out in the book, I can't know if he'll do an extension with us, which I think is like the funniest thing. So now I don't have to pay as much. And the whole thing, it just feels like Nico, that relationship worked. Nico, when we're actually talking about the price paid for somebody like Luca, yeah.
- [29:50]
Ryan Russillo
I. I would certainly agree with that. And look, that relationship obviously also goes back to the relationship with Kobe. Rob Polinko's Kobe's longtime agent. You know, Nico was his. His right hand man. And Nike, those get. Those three traveled the world together, you know, got to have a, you know, a real bond. And Nico could trust Pelinka to keep things secret. Of course. Was it in Polinka's best interest to keep things secret? Absolutely. You know, because. And then he could use the card that you just mentioned. Hey, I can't check with Bill Duffy, you know, Lucas agent. Well, if I listen, if I can't call Duff, I mean, how, how do I know that he'll want to stick around to play in sunny Southern California for the most glamorous franchise in NBA history while one of his good buddies is, is coaching the team? I mean, gee whiz, could the Laker, like, how are we can. Can the Lakers attract talent to play with him? It's always been so difficult. Like Gez, we're taking such a risk here. And he walked away with a 2031 pick in his pocket. With the 2030 swap in his pocket. Dalton connect wasn't part of the deal. You know, you, you, you, whatever you want to say. So yeah, Alinka keeping it secret. Nika wanted to do it because he felt like he had to blindside Luca. And as I write in the book, after six years of the Mavericks kissing Lucas, but he did get shanked in the back. It's absolutely what happened here. Felt like he had to blindside Luca. Felt like he had a blind side. Bill Duffy and I would argue that it worked against him. And you know, the other thing is I, I think the fear of the supermax was, or logic was extremely flawed logic. Nico talking about it's going to be a tumultuous summer. Number one, like Luca was signing the supermax. And Nico knew that Luca was about to close on his forever home in Dallas. And that was known throughout the organization. He was not going to turn down the biggest contract in NBA history. There were teams that were lining up just in case, but Luka was staying in Dallas. They feared it as an investment, which to me is wow. Like, even if you think the body's going to break down, look what Kevin Durant got in the trade market in his 30s after he'd had an Achilles and missed a whole bunch of games for other injuries with the Nets. If you have Luka locked up on a long term deal, that means you've got to stick in the relationship for another year and a half. You know, you've got to deal with having, you know, perennial MVP Cannon on your roster for another season and a half and, you know, the things that you don't like about them. But could you imagine if in the summer of what it would be 20, 26. The Mavericks basically announced the league. Hey, we're trading Luca before training camp. So what kind of bidding war do you think would. Have, Would have started after that?
- [32:53]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah. In a league where you hope damaged goods not always number one option, is this guy going to have 30 or zero in a playoff game? Paul George, when you hope that he takes your 200 million, then you do a supermax for Luca. Like, think about the deals where teams have cap space and they're like, man, maybe we can get Thaddeus Young on a three year deal. And that's the part where I can't understand somebody who spent a life in basketball, even if more of it was on the outside. But, you know, Nico had a really good track record. And for you to start getting cute with what you want to do, it's like, no, you, you hope he wants a supermax. And even if he blew out an acl, you'd still be able to trade Luca during the supermax to another team and recoup some of that because he'd still be south of 30. It just, it felt really personal. Like, I, I can't help but like, I, I'll never stop thinking how I felt when I saw Michael Finley grab the beer from Luca. And I don't know, Michael Finley, obviously he was an awesome player. It seems like he has a really, like, you know, good reputation as a guy who takes shit really seriously. But I thought he was embarrassing his guy there and then I didn't understand if Finley was doing it so that it made Michael Finley look like the winner, where it's like, look how serious I'm taking this. And I, you know, you can tell me I'm totally wrong, but I thought that moment, I, it bothered me because I was like, why would you even allow, like, if you don't want him to do this, fine. Maybe he didn't know the camera was there. That seems hard to believe.
- [34:20]
Ryan Russillo
No, because it was. It was one guy with a cell phone, right?
- [34:24]
Kyle Cerutty
Okay.
- [34:26]
Ryan Russillo
Like, I, I, I don't know if he saw this cell phone or not. I think it was just probably not. I, I think that that was like, it's a moment that was. I, frankly, it was funny at the time. And then now, in hindsight, it's like, oh, but I think people might be making too much of that moment. I haven't actually talked to, to Finn about it, but I think it was just more of like, hey, not in the hallway, man. You know, like, hey, you know, like, don't, don't Be drinking a beer out here for everybody to see, like behind closed doors. Cool. Not, not in the hallway. That, that was my read on it.
- [35:00]
Kyle Cerutty
At least I don't taking it away from him, though. A man taking another man's beer away like that to prove. Listen, I think that's a little weird.
- [35:07]
Ryan Russillo
Well, especially because Luke is an adopted Texan and, you know, like, you don't take a man's beer out of his hand in Texas, that's for sure. But I, I, I do believe that Michael Finley was a strong supporter of Luca from start to finish. I would say that. I would say that.
- [35:28]
Kyle Cerutty
Okay, that's good. I'm glad we got that out there. Let's talk about new ownership. We all know a new ownership syndrome is a real thing, and it's almost unavoidable. The first 12 to 18 months, you are guaranteed to do something really stupid. And now we've got the stepson Patrick being the face of this whole thing. I think you pointed out perfectly in the book for him to use. Like, it was very clear to basketball people that you're saying Luca does not meet the standard of what the Dallas Mavericks expect. Does not meet the standard of a Jordan, of a bird, of a Shaq. Shaq being the worst example of somebody who brought it every day lunch pail, put in all the, all the off season stuff. And look, you even go in on the Bird Jordan thing. You want to talk about the stuff away from the facility where it's like, these guys are not super locked in. I think Patrick has had a really good run, and maybe he's, he's brilliant in his field, but he thought he could get away with the tech zoom conference buzzwords of this space and maximizing that for basketball people. When you're using those analogies, you just kind of, it concerns your fan base to being like, do we have an absolute fraud imposter?
- [36:42]
Ryan Russillo
Well, and I just don't think the guy knows much about basketball. And there's this like all these conspiracy theories. Oh, this is a. You know, the management demanded this because they're trying to depress the value of the franchise to move it to Vegas. Like, this is QAnon whack job stuff. Like, no, that's not what happened. Nico Harrison managed up right. Nico Harrison convinced Patrick Dumont, a guy who is a year in to having control of an NBA franchise, that, hey, we've got to get rid of this guy. You know, Luca doesn't work hard. Luke is bad for the culture. Supermax would be a terrible investment. He convinced Dumont of that. And he'd earned Dumont's trust because, listen, the. The moves that Nico made before the deadline last year, which, by the way, at the time, it wasn't like people were talking about. The Mavs made great moves around the league. There was a lot of questions about them. But Daniel Gafford and P.J. washington ended up being critical pieces to a team that caught fire down the stretch of the regular season and made a finals run. So Nico had built up some credibility, a lot of credibility, I would say, with Patrick Dumont, based on the success of his first transaction cycle with Dumont in control of the team. But, I mean, Dumont doesn't know much about basketball. That's pretty clear. He also doesn't have, like. He doesn't have a great feel for public speaking.
- [38:06]
Kyle Cerutty
The problem is, though, is because everything has worked out for him. Like, I know who these guys are. He's like, oh, I can just go up on the stage and dazzle them. And you're like, dude, if you don't grow up with this, like, you can't. You can't Cliff Notes the NBA world in front of NBA people and pull it off. Like, maybe you can at some of these other business things, but, like, you know, I'm sorry I interrupted, but, like, it's unbelievable to think, like, yeah, I can just go up here and put on a suit, and they'll figure, like, I got this.
- [38:35]
Ryan Russillo
Sure. And when he. When he made those comments we're talking about, it was in an interview with Brad Townsend of the Dallas Morning News. It was the day after the Anthony Davis's abbreviated Mavericks debut. So that the first home game following the trade, when there was that huge protest outside the arena, you know, sell the team F. Nico. They even said some nasty things about me, which wasn't very nice. One of them was don't buy the book, which I do appreciate the free publicity. But anyways, that protest was held in the shadows of a statue of a gentleman named Dirk Nowitzki. And if you need to check on the spelling, the street right there is Nowitzki way right. And on that statue, 21 letters summing up 21 seasons. Man, you know, the man's game. Loyalty never fades away. If you're going to start naming NBA legends who are like the epitome of discipline and hard work, and your target audience is a Dallas fan base, and you leave Dirk out of that. Oh, my God. It was honestly one of the worst PR moves I've ever seen in my life.
- [39:47]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah. Cuban's role in this, because as you recently pointed out on a pod it was being sold to everybody, that Cuban was still in charge. As he was saying those things, other teams are like, why does everybody just keep rolling with this? Not because they felt like, hey, we need to be fat. They were just fascinated with the assumption, which was a bad one, that, okay, I've given up majority position of this team, but I'm still going to be in charge of these decisions. Like, I mean, I don't know. That's not usually how it works out. Can you give us better insight into why it was handled that way and why Cuban was. Was willing to sell something that clearly wasn't going to be true very soon?
- [40:33]
Ryan Russillo
Well, Cuban's claim at this point is that they had a gentleman's agreement that wasn't followed through on. Listen, with, with Cuban, you always have to, like, you can't. Well, one of my favorite Jerry Jones sayings, I call them Jerryisms, is just because I say it, doesn't make it so. Well, just because Cuban says it, doesn't make it so. So you never know if. If what he's telling you is the truth. So I don't know if there was a gentleman's agreement that they just kind of backed out on. I don't know if Cuban was completely full of crap when he was telling everybody, hey, they're real estate people. I'm a basketball person, I'm running basketball, or he was trying to speak something into existence. But what I do know is that as. As the ink dried on that deal, Cuban was done calling shots for basketball. Cuban did not call shots going into the trade deadline. And frankly, at this point, Cuban has no more influence on personnel decisions than any other rich dude who has courtside season tickets. He got a five minute heads up via text from Nico that this trade's going down. Try to talk him out of it. Too late. He got a phone call from Dumont after, like, after it was over. And I was told that was about a two minute phone call, you know, like, great. So thanks for touching base. Like, what the hell do you want to talk about? So this never happens if Cuban doesn't give up the majority share of the franchise. I mean, honestly, if Nika would have gone to Cuban when he was running the show and said, hey, I'm negotiating a trade for Luca. I think it would have been a fireable offense. Cuban's the first five and a half years of Luca's career that Cuban was calling shots. Cuban's top priority was doing everything in his power to make Luka as happy as possible, and I would say rightfully so. I don't think the execution was always the smoothest, but I think when you get that kind of a franchise player, when you get that kind of a prodigy, like, yes, they've got to be the priority. Everything does revolve around them. That's just reality in the NBA. And that took a sudden shift this summer.
- [42:50]
Kyle Cerutty
You have that in the book where Cuban tries to talk Nico out of it. Is there anything more on that brief conversation you can share with us?
- [42:57]
Ryan Russillo
I think it was just a text exchange, like, and I don't know these specifics of it. Just Cuban basically saying, what, you can't do this, And Nico saying, it's done. I don't think. I don't think there was a whole lot of back and forth there.
- [43:13]
Kyle Cerutty
The book starts with just a reminder of what this world was going to be for Luca, right? 19 years old, this insane profile of success in the Euroleague and winning. And, you know, it's funny because I remember that draft, watching him going, God, it goes slow, but it always works. Yes, it always works. And it did remind me of, like, very hardenish approach to possessions, of, you know, it's going to go slow and it's. But I'm going to figure out a way, and it's actually going to still end up being kind of the best. Look, but here's somebody coming to a foreign country. He'd never been to Texas. He steps foot. Now it's this press conference. He's. He's there with Jalen Brunson. Donnie Nelson's like, you know, having his moment and this whole thing and that, you know, there's. There's always a concern when you've never seen as. As big and as special as he is. And all the video, right. Like, it was pretty good chance he was going to be a really nice player, but the fact that he could become the face of this franchise. And on top, like, my argument is always, hey, there's all these guys that score that have never done anything in the playoffs, and we're still wondering who they can be. And yet Luca has the 22 run. More importantly, the 24 run. So whatever flaws you think you may have, it's not like this is a dude who can't get out of the first round in his first seven seasons. Like, he's actually getting this team probably beyond what people had thought, especially the.
- [44:37]
Ryan Russillo
22 team, and with completely different supporting casts.
- [44:41]
Kyle Cerutty
Right, Right. And so he is, you know, we can. We can make it about rings, but, like, Luca it's not really about rings to this point. It would have been, you know, say he's ringless at 30, then we can do all the fair and sometimes unfair stuff that we do with the best players in the world. But the fact that he had delivered this way, embraced Dallas, embraced all of these things. Did you see like, how, I guess the best way to describe that, you know, for the audience here that hasn't read the book yet, of just him actually exceeding every single part of like, who can this guy be for the franchise?
- [45:19]
Ryan Russillo
Well, and look, Luca was the most accomplished, decorated teenage prospect ever to come out of Europe. And you can argue he was also extremely misevaluated by the NBA. Three teams passed on this guy, right? One of whom, the Phoenix Suns had just hired Igor Kostiskov as their head coach. This is the guy who was the Slovenian national team coach when 17 year old Luka is the co star of Goran Dragic of a team that won Eurobasket. Slovenia has 2 million people, but it's like if there's a tournament of all the states in America and Idaho wins it. Right. I mean, it's insane. And Igor had never been a head coach, wasn't Coach Bear for very long. Just one year. They never asked his opinion. He finally goes to Robert Sarver and says, listen, man, I just got to get this off my chest so I can sleep. We've got a draft, Luca. We've got this cap space. Throw a big offer sheet on the table. Get him Clint Capella, get him a rim running center, Luka Booker Capella. That's our core we can build. And it's like, thanks for your input. You'll coach the guys we give you. We're going with this guy who is from Arizona, you know, the Robert Sarver, the Arizona alum. Yeah, no, I'm taking the seven footer who is from Arizona. And like a lot of people did have Deandre Ayton number one in the draft then. Vlade Balkan, basketball legend, had known Sasha Doncic for decades. Luca's dad 1. I was told by a scout who was in the room that Vladi, quote, knew too much, you know, that he knew, hey, you know, Luca likes to have a good time. The, the discipline's not the best, all those sort of things, which frankly, Sasha is kind of like the, I call him the Charles Barkley of Slovenia, you know, legend, gregarious, gregarious personality. Yes. Likes to have a good time, you know. Yeah, so like knew all that, but then bloody didn't think he was a superstar. Well, he'd take touches away from Darren Fox. We don't. We don't. We don't want that. Marvin Bagley iii, Vladi said on draft night, is a better player and a better fit. Well, not sure about either of those, buddy. And by the way, Luca remembers last year, Vladi was sitting courtside in Sacramento, and after Luca iced a win, he's sneering over there, he's going back to the bench, talking about, that guy should have drafted me. That guy should have drafted me. And then the Hawks, they had Luke a little bit above Trey Young on their board, but, hey, if we can get an extra lottery pick out of it, okay, let's do it. And lo and behold, the Mavericks, who had an epic tank job that cost Cuban 600 grand when he said the quiet part out loud, then got booted back by the lottery gods. A couple spots, were able to move back up and get the guy who Donnie Nelson was absolutely pounding the table for, as he did Giannis when Cuban didn't listen in that draft. And maybe more importantly, in terms of Cuban's decision making, this gambling dude who'd been consultant for him on the sly, old Bob Vulgaris was. And he brought up Harden. That's exactly who he brought up. This guy's going to be an MVP candidate at some point relatively soon. And James Harden was the comp. And, you know, I do still think prime James Harden is the best comp for Luka. You can argue that Luca has surpassed. Has surpassed that as a. As a player already, but that's how. That's how Luke ended up in Dallas again. Went third in the draft, but was missing. People didn't think he could be a point guard in the NBA. People didn't think he could be a primary ball handler.
- [49:00]
Kyle Cerutty
I'm glad you talked about the conspiracy theory in the book and then shared a little here, because it was so well done by somebody who looked like they had a little juice. And I had buddies, you know, reaching out, being like, hey, this is probably what happened here. And I'm like, well, you don't. You live in Vermont, and you. You don't know anything about the NBA, so I don't know that your approval is what he's looking for. I go, the idea that they would major league this thing so that they can move to Vegas and then leave Dallas without an NBA franchise doesn't seem to make a ton of sense. The fact that they wouldn't want an expansion fee from a new group on the Vegas team, and then who the 32nd team ends up being now if you want to say, hey, maybe they were going to say, well, the expansion people can have Dallas and then we get to go to Vegas because of all of our business interests. It was a really, really well thought out delivered conspiracy theory that again, didn't make any sense because people didn't believe.
- [50:04]
Ryan Russillo
The reasoning for the Mavericks to make this trade. They couldn't. They, they couldn't wrap their minds around it. They. They're like, there has to be something more. Okay, the conditions, a problem like Luca can be a little bit difficult. Like, you just went to the finals with a guy leading the league in scoring and averaging damn near a triple double. And that, that's the thing. It wasn't about with Luca. It wasn't about potential. He was proven. He's a proven perennial MVP candidate. It's not like, you know, when you're trading a 25 year old who, well, he's. If he, if he works on his conditioning, he has a chance to be one of the best players in the league. No, he's been one of the best players in the league despite conditioning issues and he works on his conditioning. Holy crap.
- [50:52]
Kyle Cerutty
Well, that's the thing that I was left with because when everyone is, when everyone is one way, right? It's like, imagine a scenario where Luca's so hurt that in four years Nico goes, I was right. And the problem is that he could be right about that part. He could be right about the evaluation of Luca. It's malpractice for the execution on the business side of it. And so even if he ends up, you know, in that, I just love asking myself these questions. You're like, hey, remember three years ago, everybody thought this from, you know, is there something happening right now? Do you like, imagine if this is the end of this story and I think we all have to allow for it to happen, but it is consistently. There will never be a moment where I feel like the execution of the business part of it is ever going to be able to be defended.
- [51:43]
Ryan Russillo
Well, you, you know, we talked about, he didn't maximize the return simply by his own admission. Honestly, his own. He was very proud of keeping it top secret and nobody being, you know, other teams not knowing about it. You can't maximize the return operating that way. And look like I almost feel bad about for Anthony Davis because he is a top 75 all time player who is still an absolutely dominant force, right? Like he. It ain't like he's some kind of scrub or something. I mean, he is a first ballot hall of Famer. But if you're trading Luka because you're concerned about durability, well, AD has durability concerns.
- [52:27]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah.
- [52:28]
Ryan Russillo
Luca was hurt when the trade was made. So is ad. AD rushed back to play in that first home game. I, I've been told maybe due to some motivation of trying to, you know, at least not silence, noise, but calm. Sure, the noise. And boy, that first half, holy crap, was he good. I mean, he was dominant, but then he goes down the third quarter and just got back on the floor. But Nico's, in Nico's own words, they created and hey, biggest, most athletic front court in the NBA. If you got Kyrie like they were going to have, they were going to be tough. But Nico created a three to four year time frame and you gave up on a generational talent who is yet to hit his prime years, who was beloved by the fan base. Like, look, Luka has flaws, but don't tell Mavericks fans that. They'll call you all kinds of mean things. So you give up on potentially decade 12 year, 14 year Runway for three to four years after you'd successfully built a contender around Luca. And in doing so, you gave up your draft capital, first round capital. 27, 28, 29, 30. You don't control any of it. And do the math in three to four years. Okay, let's get to 2028. Oklahoma City, they've got your swap rights. They gave you that pick last year so you could get Daniel Gafford 29. Well, that's the Houston Rockets pick because they suckered Brooklyn and giving them a whole bunch of stuff, the Suns and that pick to get so they could get Brooklyn could get their two years back. But that was from the Kyrie trade. Okay, again, good trade. But now that's the Rockets 30. That's the San Antonio spurs for facilitating the Grant Williams sign and trade which moved in pan out. But okay, whatever. You built a contender around them and now your three to four years run straight into when the credit cards do and the collectors are your closest geographic rivals.
- [54:24]
Kyle Cerutty
It was a great way to end, end the book. And look, I would just tell people, check it out. Just came out this week. There's so much more in there. The Przinga stuff is really fun. The Kyrie pursuit is great. And obviously, you know, just learning more about Luca the Wonder boy, Tim McMahon, final thought, because those of us that are Hoop Collective fans, are we going to hear a response from LeBron's best friend, Brian?
- [54:50]
Ryan Russillo
I, I'm just, you know, I know LeBron you know, he. He never just spouts off. I'm sure he has evidence that when he ever uttered such a comment, ever in his entire Life. You know, LeBron's head coach was a damn good podcaster. I don't know if you're aware of that, J.J. a damn good podcaster. There's a clip floating around of Wendy's appearance on Old man in three with JJ Redick last year, where Wendy actually said, I don't think LeBron likes me. So I don't know. Is that like, best friend? I don't think he likes me. I don't know. Seems strange. Hella player, though. All time great. I don't know where he was coming.
- [55:31]
Kyle Cerutty
From on that one.
- [55:33]
Ryan Russillo
He's dunked on a lot of dudes. I don't know why he felt the need to dunk on Wendy.
- [55:37]
Kyle Cerutty
I'll tell you from personal experience, I think the first time I met Wendy, when I'm in Bristol, and then I probably made the mistake with a lot of people, like, oh, this guy got hired because he's like LeBron's guy. Windhorse would go out of his way to make sure that you knew that it was, like, not the case in the most genuine way ever. Not trying to sell or distract, deflect, whatever. He would just be like, yeah, actually, you know, we're not really that tight. He's like, I just happen to be on the beat. I covered it. I was plugged in. I'm sure the relationship was good, but, you know, that relationship is impossible. That relationship, unless you were only going to be part of the propaganda machine. And I'm not even saying specific to LeBron. It is impossible to keep that relationship smooth the entire time. And imagine, like, even working on this book with Luca. I like, does he like you?
- [56:25]
Ryan Russillo
We're not working on this book on Luca. We did not work together. And look, Luka and I, and like, if you have to kiss somebody's butt regardless of circumstances to have a good relationship as a reporter, it's. That's just. That's just not going to work out. Luca and like Maverick, there's a lot of Mavericks fans, Luca fans that are mad that I wrote a book on him. Oh, you trashed him his whole career. I didn't trash him his whole career. I've written and talked a ton about what an incredible talent this guy is. I covered him fairly and accurately. Brilliance and flaws and they, you know, the flaws can be as obvious as the brilliance. And, you know, all that stuff. You've read the book all that stuff is represented in the book. But you know what? I'm glad that I don't regret any of my reporting on him. You know, the public confrontations we had are what they are, but can you imagine if I was just sunshine and daffodils throughout this whole book and then the trade happens and I got to rush in a last chapter. Oh, by the way, all this stuff had been building up you didn't read about in the first 18 chapters, so.
- [57:35]
Kyle Cerutty
Hey, man, congrats again on the release and all the work, and it was cool to catch up here, so thanks.
- [57:42]
Ryan Russillo
I really appreciate you having me, man. Enjoy your work. You're a legend in this podcast field, and it has been an honor to appear here.
- [57:51]
Kyle Cerutty
Well, that was really nice. We can have you do my book, but hopefully it'll be contention.
- [57:56]
Ryan Russillo
I'll work with you on that one. It won't be on you.
- [57:59]
Kyle Cerutty
Thanks, buddy. See you.
- [58:00]
Ryan Russillo
I appreciate. Adios, amigos. You want details? Fine.
- [58:06]
Unknown Speaker 1
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [58:10]
Ryan Russillo
What's up?
- [58:12]
Unknown Speaker 2
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [58:14]
Ryan Russillo
I have every toy you can possibly imagine, and best of all, kids, I am liquid.
- [58:20]
Unknown Speaker 1
So now you know what's possible.
- [58:23]
Kyle Cerutty
Let me tell you what's required. The email address is lifeadvicermail.com for some of our older listeners. What's going on, Kyle?
- [58:35]
Unknown Speaker 1
Just normal stuff. Normal stuff. Just a guy without a team in a tournament.
- [58:43]
Kyle Cerutty
Are you a Duke fan? Ceruti?
- [58:44]
Unknown Speaker 2
Growing up feels like an insult. Nothing against. I mean, it's just like, you know, it's a little bit of like a. Hey, you seem like a Duke fan. It's like that time I told you that you seemed like a Rivian driver, which I. I do regret, but, no.
- [59:00]
Kyle Cerutty
I was awesome, by the way.
- [59:02]
Unknown Speaker 2
Ryan did not like that. He did not like that.
- [59:04]
Unknown Speaker 1
My buddy invested a bunch of money and he was stressed, and I text him every time I see one on the road.
- [59:11]
Kyle Cerutty
Wait, say that again.
- [59:12]
Unknown Speaker 1
My buddy invested a bunch in Rivian, and I don't know, there was a time when it was not going well, but everyone thought it was going to go well. I don't know where it is now. He hasn't been thinking about it as much. Yeah, I guess I could ask.
- [59:22]
Kyle Cerutty
Check the ticker.
- [59:24]
Unknown Speaker 1
I don't know what he got in at, but I remember he was stressing every day, and every time I'd see him be like, dude, don't even worry. I just saw one on the road. It was a joke that I don't think he Loved.
- [59:34]
Kyle Cerutty
Well, that doesn't seem very nice. Where are we at? 12 year.
- [59:38]
Unknown Speaker 1
12. 53 a share.
- [59:40]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah. 5 year. Did it have some weird peak? Sure did. Whoa. That seems low, but hey, yeah, it was five years ago is about 115 bucks a share.
- [59:54]
Unknown Speaker 2
All right.
- [59:55]
Kyle Cerutty
I think they look at the joke too. No, look, I think they look pretty good. Yeah, me too. It's. It's nothing. I think somebody from Rivian even reached out to tell us to take it easy. But it wasn't really, I think. Look, we've talked about what I want the rip from Yellowstone truck. At some point in my life, I just can't fix fit it and I can't park it anywhere in la. And honestly, I would be dumb enough to buy it and then be like, I have nowhere to park it. And then I'd be like, sorry, kids can't get out. If I had kids, like I thought we were getting ice cream.
- [60:29]
Unknown Speaker 1
Running a boat dually. Package deal to get rid of both.
- [60:35]
Kyle Cerutty
I don't think I'd want to trailer my boat on a highway. I think that would scare the shit out of me. Okay. Yeah.
- [60:41]
Unknown Speaker 2
It's dark, but no.
- [60:42]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah.
- [60:43]
Unknown Speaker 2
Not a Duke fan.
- [60:44]
Kyle Cerutty
I know, I know. Do you hear Duke got mad about the White Lotus? Dad wearing the Duke shirt?
- [60:49]
Unknown Speaker 1
I do. That's what I thought of whenever I'd see those memes of that guy with the gun to his head and just the. The thing that jumps out is Duke. And it's like, ah, they must not love that.
- [61:00]
Kyle Cerutty
I think things have gone well. Yeah. I think enough stuff has gone well for Duke. Yeah. That they'll be okay.
- [61:06]
Unknown Speaker 2
Probably right.
- [61:08]
Kyle Cerutty
Applications are down. Like, you know, we had to let a kid in from Maine. All right. Am I mooching off my weird vibe today? Weird vibe. Maybe it's because it's super early.
- [61:25]
Unknown Speaker 1
7:30. It's quiet in my. Yeah, I don't know.
- [61:28]
Kyle Cerutty
All right, you know, look, maybe. Maybe something beautiful will come of this. All right. Am I mooching off my future in laws 33. Five, nine and a half, 180, 225 bench 305. Squat player comp. Luke Gridnauer. High IQ on the core. Can hold my own against better players. Just average height and athleticism. I recently engaged my amazing fiance who's 26. Hey. Oop. And we just closed in our first home together. What do you think is the best age gap number? Just a quick get it around the horn here.
- [61:57]
Unknown Speaker 1
I don't know.
- [62:00]
Kyle Cerutty
Are you the same age, Kyle, as your wife?
- [62:02]
Unknown Speaker 1
No, no, she Is like almost three years younger than me.
- [62:07]
Unknown Speaker 2
Same.
- [62:09]
Kyle Cerutty
Your wife's three years younger than you, Siri. I don't know why I thought you were the same age. For the weirdest. That's a. That's clearly on me. No one told me the wrong info or anything like that, but maybe I thought because like, you both entered the PA program at the same time or something stupid. Which is a dumb thing because it's not like everybody's the same age.
- [62:31]
Unknown Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I met her a few years in. She was. I mean, we would have never actually met in work. We met like through work people, essentially. But yeah, three years. I feel like three years is a good. Is the reasonable gap.
- [62:44]
Unknown Speaker 1
What's the best?
- [62:45]
Kyle Cerutty
I don't know.
- [62:45]
Unknown Speaker 1
Second marriage age gap. Just kidding.
- [62:50]
Kyle Cerutty
It's more than three years. It's not the same age, I'll tell you that. All right, here we go. Life's good. I make about 175k a year and she makes 85k. And while we're financially comfortable. My dilemma. Her parents seem determined to make sure we never pay for anything when we're with them. And I. I mean anything. Dinner. They got it. Golf with her dad. He won't even let me fake reach for my wallet. Vacations. We book our flights, but they cover hotels, food, and probably the air we breathe. They even loaned my fiance 10 grand for a down payment because the down payment was going to be all my money. Bought her a brand new $45,000 car last year, and we are chipping in $40,000 for our impending wedding. Oh, they are more than 40 grand.
- [63:33]
Unknown Speaker 1
This is awesome.
- [63:35]
Kyle Cerutty
And now they want to buy us a new grill as a housewarming gift because apparently the 10k wasn't enough of a present. Her parents are both in the late 50s, retired after very successful careers. Her dad owned a business that he sold and her mom was a chief executive at a decent sized company for many years. Maybe a cweo. They don't flaunt their wealth, but they're incredibly generous and seem to generally enjoy taking care of their family. For context, I grew up in the middle class where my parents pinch pennies to raise three kids. Since college, I've never asked my parents for a dime, take pride in paying my own way. So every time I offer to cover anything, they brush me off of the play. Okay, thanks for offering. It sort of makes me feel like a dirtbag mooch and almost some shame. Warranted or not, I just can't help it. My fiance has an older sister and in my view, they've both been very fortunate that their parents have always taken care of them. They paid for my fiance's undergrad, covered most of her master's degree. She has very little debt and, as I mentioned, has never let her worry about big expenses. That said, she's not just coasting. She's worked through college, has a strong work ethic, currently holds two jobs. She, doing well in her career, will only continue to grow financially. They've done an amazing job raising her. She's just been blessed with more financial support than I ever had. How would you guys handle this? Kyle, you want to take the lead on this? Sure.
- [64:45]
Unknown Speaker 1
I mean, you've gone through this, and I think everybody learns this in college, but a lot of your stories are just like a light bulb goes off and you're like, oh, people have just grown up totally different ways, and it's totally fine. And that's the. The freshman guy in college who has the brand new Hummer and is, like, figured out a way to be able to drive it as a freshman. Like, it just happens. It doesn't make them a bad person. You know, I think this is. This is someone who you've married who's just grown up a different way. And the truth of it is, like, your parents, who would probably be like, why is this guy always letting me pay? Even if they were doing that, which you're saying they pinch pennies. Her parents genuinely like this. This feels good to them. It maybe even feels not necessarily bad to them that you're always trying to pay, but it's like, this is what they want to use their money for. Clearly, they've budgeted for enough, and they want to use it for experiences with you guys. And it feels good for them to be like, oh, they got a new house that they gave you, your wife, 10 grand for the down payment for. Also, we'd love for them to have a new grill. This is all stuff that they are enjoying doing. And I would say, who cares if it's not really an empty gesture when you reach for your wallet? Although I know some people do it and they just do it a little slower than everyone else. That's not what you're doing.
- [65:56]
Unknown Speaker 2
So I think, oh, no, no, no.
- [65:57]
Unknown Speaker 1
Yeah.
- [65:57]
Kyle Cerutty
Ah, shit.
- [65:59]
Unknown Speaker 1
So I think keep doing that. And then with that knowledge, you might feel better about it. If you just spent the money that you are clearly budgeting in your head for all these things, you're like, all right, when the check comes, I'm prepared to lose $300. And you don't. Maybe you just figure out a way to budget that money into something for the future and, you know, build a little mother daughter for your next house because you clearly are going to be the ones taking care of them. I think. I think just find the good in this. I get that you were raised a way that makes you feel bad about this, but your wife was raised away where I guess this is expected. So I'd just say cut it down the middle and be apathetic or slightly happy about it. Don't feel bad about this.
- [66:36]
Unknown Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, I probably have two sets of parents who like to do this. And as you said, Kai, you could take the wallet out, but it's never really gonna actually matter. The way I feel like I get around it or not get around it, but at least pay it back is, you know, do nice things for them. Make sure, you know, you're keeping up with the FaceTimes and, you know, all the stuff with the kids and the stuff that's not super fun. But also it's. It's like, it's like a pay it forward thing. Like, you're probably going to want to do that later in your life too. Like, you want to be in a position where you're spoiling, you know, your kids and their better lives. Yeah. So I, I don't know, I just. Part of like the life cycle. Like, you're going to end up probably paying this back when you're in your 60s and whatever and retired and hopefully your financial situation is good where you.
- [67:22]
Kyle Cerutty
Could do that maybe, though. But I think some people just look at it as like after a certain age, you're on your own, even if the adult has made a ton of money. I mean, it sounds like. I think the best part of this is that because you grew up the way that you did, you appreciate this so much. You've already told us that your wife, fiance, but future wife bust her ass. It's not like she's just sitting around. Like, sometimes I think about what I would have been like had I been a trust fund guy in comparison to like the other trust fund guys. Like, would I have been? I mean, I wasn't all that. Honestly, you could argue I acted like a trust fund guy without the trust fund for quite a while. Yeah.
- [68:04]
Unknown Speaker 1
Does this guy know who we are?
- [68:06]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [68:06]
Kyle Cerutty
Seriously, Like. Like, what's he doing? He's just kind of chilling out for a little while.
- [68:11]
Unknown Speaker 1
You know, he had a long semester.
- [68:13]
Kyle Cerutty
And it doesn't really matter. Like, you can say, like, this is where I Just don't like putting everybody in the same category. Everything. But like, I knew trust fund guys that had a job June after they graduated, you know, and that was it. New York City commute is on. Working my way up. Granted, those guys probably had a better entry situation than some of the other dudes. And then, you know, look, other guys, it was out to Jackson Hole. Figure some things out. Like, what's he doing? He'd be like, I don't know. Have you heard of this thing called kombucha? He says he's got. I don't know, he says he wants to bring it east. I was like, all right. That seems he's going to be just a beverage guy now. Like, yeah, he knows the wholesalers. Really? Okay. He's also going to check out some widespread shows. But yeah, this kombucha thing feels pretty real. If you can. If you got five, ten grand laying around, you know, the paying it forward thing, you're right, Ceruti. But again, kind of back to the original point, the parents may, you know, there can be somebody who's completely taken care of by the in laws. And then when he has money and it's, it's him out there with his daughter's fiance, it's like, I'm not doing shit for you guys. You know, it's. It's a complete philosophical approach. You may want to say to the dad, be like, I appreciate all these dinners, I appreciate the down payment, I appreciate the grill, but if you think I'm coming over and missing paddle board to push your ass around 20 years from now, you know, just. What, what are you expecting in return? Look, there was, there was a time, you know, again, during the broke years where you at least wanted the person who was paying for stuff to think that you were going to offer. Right.
- [69:57]
Unknown Speaker 1
Yeah, totally.
- [69:58]
Kyle Cerutty
Huge part of sounds. Yeah.
- [69:59]
Unknown Speaker 1
Part of the dance.
- [70:01]
Kyle Cerutty
You can probably just go to him now and be like, you know, I want to offer, you know, you don't have to do this, but maybe it's time to end the dance and the dance a little bit. And that was a big thing when some of the guys came back to visit and they had their hockey bonus money. And, you know, I'd be sitting there like throwing a debit card down next to Amex, the metal. Right. I don't. They weren't metal back then, but it would be like debit. The numbers would be like off. Honestly, I think I threw a couple expired ones in there a couple times just to be like, I hope it's not me. I hope it's not me. I'll wait. I threw in one that was just an absolute dud.
- [70:39]
Unknown Speaker 2
That's real credit card roulette, man.
- [70:41]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah. Nobody knew. And you're sitting there going, well, I have to pretend I can handle this. But there's just. I was like, if they pick mine, I'm just gonna have to have a little. Little side chat over at the hostess.
- [70:53]
Unknown Speaker 1
I'll find my guy. Yeah, right.
- [70:54]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [70:55]
Kyle Cerutty
I'm running the bathroom. Quick. I got this. Say, great night, guys. But I think the guys that are. What they're doing basically is maybe they're spending the inheritance they were going to give you anyway, too, on top of everything else. Like, if they've really killed it, okay. Because it's going to get super annoying if you find out later on they just spent all this money and you're like, oh. They're like, hey, can we move in with you guys? But if somebody's absolutely crushed it, you know, there's an argument to be made that it makes way more sense to set up your fiance, set up her sister. Like, you know, like, sometimes when you look at the way inheritance works and I. I don't understand how anybody really gets upset and talking about inherence, like, some people are just going to luck out and some people aren't. But there's an argument for spending it now while you're younger and helping you get a head start as opposed to, like, oh, cool, now we're 65 and we get these checks from our. From our parents, you know, so, look, just appreciate it, man, because you're in a great spot. But I also think you're in a great spot because your wife seems to understand despite her financial advantages, and you're not taking it for granted, and it's just full appreciation. So high marks all around.
- [72:02]
Unknown Speaker 1
Yeah, I like the good gesture thing, too. Like, you know what? Just, like, put in for those Masters tickets and surprise him. You know, like, get Carmel's dad that Beretta. You know, get him the present. He's going to be like, holy crap. You know, with all the. With all the money that you haven't spent because of doing stuff with them, just think, Just really spend more time thinking about when those gift or good gesture moments present themselves. Like, how can you really crush that?
- [72:29]
Unknown Speaker 2
It's really probably time, too. Like, what? You know, spend money, give back with your time. They're going to appreciate that, I think, more than, you know, whatever the gift is. But at least that's how I know my parents look at it.
- [72:46]
Kyle Cerutty
Okay, I thought this was a dream one, but it is also about a dream. So this isn't about Inception, but let's see if I can help here a little bit. All right, longtime listener, first time emailer. Two eight, five, one, one and three. Three quarter. Formally six feet. No pickup comp, because I was cut by every basketball team I ever tried out for. About six months ago, one of my best friends from college, let's call him Bubba, moved into my house in Philly after living in Chicago since graduating college. So he moved in six months ago, moved into his house, Philly, since he graduated college. So we're talking this guy's got to be a little bit younger. I mean, unless he graduated later. But he's been working as an engineer. But about a year ago, told our friend group he was looking at a career change and a move back to the East Coast. He and I discussed moving in with me since I'd had an open room in my house. While I was really excited about one of my best friends moving in, I was a little concerned with what his new career would be. Bubba had written a script for a sitcom during the dregs of COVID based on his experience living in Chicago post graduation. All right, so it sounds like he's a couple years later if he just graduated, if he was living in Covid post graduation. See what we're saying here? He calls it a perfect hybrid of New Girl and Workaholics. I've read the pilot and some other episodes he's written and found it amusing, but not sure I'm qualified to judge. My only experience in the entertainment industry is playing Lost boy number 17 in my grade school's production of Peter Pan. You were great in that, though. You look so much more lost than the rest of the boys. His plan when moving to Philly was to work as a production assistant on various sets in the area and build relationships with people in the business. Quote. His brother works locally as a sound engineer on commercials, TV shows, and indie films, so he was able to get work as a PA Relatively quickly. Granted, some of the sets he was working on had been commercials for kitchen appliance. Super relevant experience. I don't know. You know, look, he's making connections. I remember when guys used to come and shoot the ESPN ads. When one of the makeup ladies came over and combed my hair like it was. I was an extra Leave it to Beaver. And I didn't realize. And then when the videos came back, I was like, jesus Christ. That's when I Had like enough hair to trick everybody, but it was like she did a just a like, like eight year old Picture day Pictures. Good ad though. The ad was funny. And I was sitting there, you know, who knows? I had some dreams. I talked to the guy that's directing the commercial and I was like, what's up man? Keep working on this. He's like, oh, I want to. I have an indie thing I'm doing and you know, take it to some festivals and you know, I got to move back out west. You know, this thing's paying the bills. But you know, and I was like, yeah, look at this guy. You know, look at us. A couple creators thinking big picture. He makes $200 a day, but only averages about five working days per month. Ooh, okay. A lot of free time though to write. Bubba's given himself a Runway of one year to make his TV show happen. Hoping to film a pilot with the help of his connections he makes on a budget of around 20k. My biggest issue with his life choice is his level of commitment to the so called dream. It feels like he's just dipping his toe into an industry where success can be so rare. I've asked him several times why he doesn't get a job like driving for Uber or Doordash so he can extend his way or even take a writing class, join an improv group, try standup comedy, consider moving to Hollywood. Literally anything to develop his skills and better his chance of making this work. He wants to star in this TV show having never acted before, by the way. Ooh. All right, this guy's going the full workaholics experience on some weekend nights. I'll ask if he wants to come out for some beers. The friends will say nah, man. Working on the script only for me to come home and find half a bottle of Woodford Reserve polished off Woodford's two.
- [76:18]
Unknown Speaker 2
Nice.
- [76:19]
Kyle Cerutty
Maybe that opens up the creative veins, man. As a landlord, I'm not too concerned about his credit worthiness because I was able to close on my house early 2021 before interest rates went bonkers. But as a friend, I can't help but be concerned about how this late 20. So he is late 20s crisis could potentially set Bubba back years professionally. I'd love to hear your guys opinion on the situation. Especially you, Ryan, given your background experience in the industry. Am I right to be worried as Bubba needs start paying for LinkedIn Premium? All right, well look, I obviously have some experience in this and I can't go over everything but the whole Runway thing, I Did the exact same thing. Like, when I left to come out here, I knew how much money I was going to guarantee to be make like the first year. And it was also like, hey, I at least want to buy some real estate in Manhattan beach. And if I can't afford to live in this house after a year, then I'll just move and not live live here, but at least I'll finally have bought a piece of property. And then, you know, who knows? Maybe when I'm like, 50, I get to finally move and see if I like it there. Because there's a really good chance if things didn't work out. Well, there's definitely a good chance if. If things didn't work out, I couldn't afford to live there. But I did a very similar thing of like, okay, well, I don't have to work that much. So because I was doing one part a week for espn, I was also doing one pod for Ringer before it was even Spotify, and. And the ESPN money was going to run out. And I knew that I wasn't going to make the same amount for ESPN once that expired, just because I wasn't doing a daily radio show anymore, they weren't going to pay me the same amount of money, which I'd already kind of known and understood. So I was like, okay. Of all the different scenarios, like, there was still one where I was like, hey, some version of this will work out enough that you're not going to have to move again. There was that, but I had to be open to the idea that it wasn't going to go that way. The other part of, like, in one year, I have to have this done. I did it. It's one of the dumbest things that you can do. You. You have to, like, the world is. I've said this before, but it applies to screenwriting probably more than almost any. But, like, that whole world is not, like, determined to match your timeline. Okay. So the other thing that I think that I had to learn was that just even if you, like, say your buddy writes a killer pilot, all right, I mean, chances are. But I don't know, maybe he does. Maybe he's actually pretty good at this. Him wanting to star in it. Yeah. It's also alarming. You know, the workaholics thing worked. You want to know why? Because those guys are really funny. Like, the three of those dudes are really funny. They have a very, like, natural dynamic with each other. Their comedic instincts are terrific. So I don't even know. You know, I think they were doing videos, right, Kyle? And then it kind of worked. I think that was their. I don't know if they wrote, like, a pilot and then they were going to do. I thought those guys were, like, all in college together, and we're doing these videos and that just clearly kind of popped.
- [79:15]
Unknown Speaker 1
I grew up in the Always Study school, so they have, like, a similar story, but I don't. Yeah, I'm not really familiar with how workaholics kicked off.
- [79:21]
Unknown Speaker 2
It's funny, though, because, like, those kind of shows, I feel like every friend group is like, dude, we. You know, if you just filmed us in our trip to Vegas, like, we could. We could do that. We're hilarious. And, like, I'm. I'm guilty. Guilty of that, probably.
- [79:32]
Unknown Speaker 1
Well, that's exactly what your guy. We had on the positives. Like, I can't tell you how many people are like, my workplace would be the perfect show. And he's like, let me just stop you right there.
- [79:42]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah, everybody. Everybody thinks it. Everybody does it. Because, you know, you see some stuff on tv, like, it's kind of funny, too. Whenever you're, like, in a creative field, you can go, well, that. That thing sucked. You're like, so what are you saying? You're comparing your work to, like, just being slightly better than the thing you think is terrible? So that means, because that was made, that you think you have a good chance. So anyway, back kind of like how this stuff works. You can write a really good pilot. It's a starting point, but it actually ends up being probably one of the most irrelevant parts of the timeline. Events. I know that sounds crazy and it's not entirely true, but you can write a really good pilot. But if nobody else with juice wants to make it, it's just a really good pilot that shows that you have skills that you could write. Maybe that pilot gets you on a writing staff. And maybe being on a writing staff for years leads to connections where you on top of working on a TV show or on the side working with somebody else or working by yourself on your own thing, and you're crap. Like, the thing about writing, that's really, really weird. Especially screenwriting, because I think people just look at the final draft program and go, oh, this is like, I just have to write this.
- [80:51]
Unknown Speaker 1
That looks so real.
- [80:53]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah. Or it's just like, the number of words. You're going, like, I don't have to write, like, 75,000 words here. I could just kind of be like, this dude comes in. SHE laughs. Hey, what?
- [81:04]
Unknown Speaker 1
He makes a face Right.
- [81:05]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah. It just the. The visual of looking at his script. Consider you can read like a 60 page script in 20 minutes. Probably you're like, oh, I could, I could do that. But there's a little bit more to it. So you have to figure out how to hone that craft. And sounds like he's trying to do that and he's putting the hours in. But you then would need, if you. If you have very little connections, because, look, a studio saying yes to somebody, think about what they're really doing. They're going through all of the different things that they presented, and they are picking this thing based on somebody's track record or their vision. All right? And even if their vision or their writing is incredible, there still has to be somebody else that has a track record of success. Success. That's a production company that goes, we actually do want to partner with this person and then we want to make it okay. And then this is where the pilot part of it kind of becomes irrelevant. They're going to want you to map out kind of like five seasons. All right? And if you're lucky enough to even be invited to a pitch, you're going to have to like, when I had to pitch something, that was a pretty big deal. I spent four days in my house and I'd already written the script like six months prior. And I had the production company I have, I should say, that was established and got me in the room and I had to have an answer for like 45 minutes on anything that could possibly happen with this show. And that's where you start writing your bible. And that thing's like, I don't know, 100 pages long. It's like a sales document for storytelling of where this is going to go. Because nobody goes unless you're just the man. And you've crushed it numerous times. You're like, hey, I think I have this show. Like, Taylor Sheeran is like, I think I got this thing about lumberjacks. Every. Every fucking network would be like, in.
- [82:54]
Unknown Speaker 2
Say no more fam.
- [82:56]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah, you had me at lumber. So most people, like, you can have the good pilot, but you're going to have to have a team with a track record, especially if you're an unknown. And you're going to have to have somebody believe in the vision of where your story is going for multiple seasons, because that's when people start making, like, real money. Nobody's like, oh, yeah, okay, well, like that first season sounds good. So we'll just trust you on season two, three, four, and five. Right. I mean, limited series, entirely different thing. And then they have to get through all that and even want to make the pilot. And then of course, you know, there's a decision after the pilot because the people that are in charge of these shows have to answer to other people. And nobody will ever say like, like, why did you guys greenlight this thing? This is that it's a disaster. And like, well, the pilot was good, you know, so look, and I know there's exceptions and people that are way more involved in the industry day to day than I am may disagree with some of these things, but I'm just kind of trying to outline like the general part of it. So yeah, it's really, really hard. And I would say get rid of this whole one year deadline because from the time you finish a really good pilot to having an agent read it to a production company, decide that they want to partner with you to you go then and pitch and then hopefully sell and then rework the pilot and then the Bible and then wonder the amount of time from the first sentence to when a camera would actually be rolling. That's years. Again, minor the minus the exceptions of people that are just so established, they, the rules are different for them, but the rules for somebody who's never done this before that has very little connections, the one year window thing is a, is a joke. You're, you're not going to make it in one year even if you are brilliant. Well, so maybe, unless again, maybe the indie part of it of like, you know, hey, we're just going to go ahead and shoot this whole pilot. I'm going to start, I'm going to do this whole thing. Like I hope you have somebody who's established who can go through it because it's just, you're not going to know. And the best thing for me was going through it. And I knew there was all these things that I, I, I didn't know. And I was like, you're going to learn that all these things that you've assumed today, like years going to be like, holy, I can't believe I thought that, or I can't believe, but I already knew it because I'd already gone through in a whole different field. So I was like, you're totally naive. You don't have these answers but you're aware that you don't have them. And that's actually like, that's better than, than never having gone through something special before. I'm sorry I jumped you there, Kyle, but you know what? He's what he's doing is really, really hard. But why do you care if he's paying his rent? I mean, I guess you care as a friend. Let him fail. Let him fail.
- [85:37]
Unknown Speaker 1
Yeah, maybe you keep your mouth shut until the one year deadline of just maybe you should start moonlighting as a TV show writer that doesn't get paid for it. Like, maybe, maybe at that certain point you can, you, you know, if it's hard for you to see him on the couch every single day and, and not doing anything, which, you know what, at a certain point someone could say, mind your own business. You know, if, if you're, if the electricity and the rent's getting paid on time, I mean, mind your own business. But if you're saying, as a good, a friend, I don't feel good about watching this guy do something that clearly on the outside I think is doing the wrong way, but I don't really know anything about this business. Maybe you wait until he's done with his one year Runway and then you can be like, hey, man, have you thought about, like, here's some, here's some writers that were waiting tables until they got their thing picked up. Maybe you should start doing something else as well. Maybe that's a good way to break it in. Because it doesn't sound like you're like, and he's just sitting around all day and he's constantly late on the rent. It's just, you're worried that he's going to look up and be like, I haven't had any work experience for four years and I can't even get a regular job that's decent and still nobody wants my pilot. So I don't know, maybe wait till your one year Runway and still find a way to be supportive and just be like, you know, a lot of these dudes have another gig as well. Like, you can't just keep tweaking the same script. And eventually someone's gonna be like, that's the tweak. We want it now. All your dreams are coming true. So maybe, maybe you find a way near that one year Runway endpoint where you can suggest to find something else to fill his days and sort of a backup plan.
- [87:10]
Unknown Speaker 2
Yeah, I think we've had buddies who, you know, you're like, hey, is this kind of the right path for our guy? And as collectively as the friend, the other members of the friend group, you're like, what do we do? Do we say something like, you just gotta let it play out, you know, don't let it play out too long. But a year, you know, if he wants to do this thing for a year and you know, it's probably fair game then to, to chop back and be like, hey, dude, what are you doing? But I don't know because if you do it too early, then it's like, hey, do you not believe in me? Are you really my friend? And like, it creates all these issues and I, I, I'm just kind of like, hey, let people make their mistakes kind of thing. I mean, if, if the guy really, really needs help and he's like floundering in life and doesn't have any direction after several years, you're like, yeah, all right, this is maybe the time to have an interventions and step in. But you gotta let people fail. You gotta let people fall on their faces. And, you know, if he wants advice, if he opens up to you, whatever, then like, maybe go in for it and take that opening. But it's just, it's just a delicate thing because then it's like, hey, do you not believe in me? Like, you know, I, I don't know. I don't think you want to go down that road.
- [88:09]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah, it's really hard, man. It's really hard. Like, I remember in the beginning when I lived out here and I would, I would finish something and I would send it to one of my agents and he'd be like, hey, it's pretty good. I'd be like, all right, you know, like, when do we meet with hbo? You know, like, I know a guy over there and it's like, we could go meet with him, but you're just going to be wasting everybody's time, wasting your time. You'd be really wasting their time.
- [88:42]
Unknown Speaker 1
There's a world where he can be just as passionate about however long he's actually sitting in front of the laptop or the sketch pad. You know what I mean? Because it sounds like that trails off at some point and our guy gets home from the bars and he's asleep on the couch with an open bottle of whiskey. There's a world where that guy can be as passionate about as he is about sitting around all day just between 7 and 9pm after, you know, he's decompressed from his job for an hour or two. Like, there is a world where, in his mind, that's cool too. Like, I'm, I'm really grinding to make this, and maybe he just hasn't tried that. And maybe, maybe that, that is the same amount of work he would have done anyway, which, you know, I don't know.
- [89:15]
Kyle Cerutty
Yeah, no, it's a great point as we finish up here, because there's nothing better than saying you're a writer as an excuse to not do anything on the side, right? You're like, oh, I got to go over this scene again. And then you're like, all right, let me get 30 minutes, call of Duty and then refresh. Then we're like, okay, now we're hot. Let's turn on some tunes. Like, all right, cursor. What do we got tonight? All right, that'll do it for the show. Thanks to Wargon, thanks to Jonathan Frius, thank you to Kyle and Z ce Brian R. Podcast Video pod on Spotify app and of course, our YouTube page. So please subscribe Brian R. Podcast.
- [90:16]
Unknown Speaker 1
Foreign.
- [90:20]
Kyle Cerutty
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