The De’Aaron Fox Market, Jimmy Butler’s Value, and Other Trade Possibilities With Chris Mannix. Plus, Why Paul George Is a Problem for Philly.

Summary

Summary of The Ryen Russillo Podcast Episode

Title: The De’Aaron Fox Market, Jimmy Butler’s Value, and Other Trade Possibilities With Chris Mannix. Plus, Why Paul George Is a Problem for Philly
Host/Author: The Ringer
Release Date: January 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ryen Russillo Podcast, host Ryan Rosillo engages in a comprehensive discussion with sports analyst Chris Mannix. The conversation delves into significant NBA trade rumors, focusing on De’Aaron Fox’s potential trade from the Sacramento Kings, Jimmy Butler’s trade value, and the complexities surrounding Paul George’s situation with the Los Angeles Clippers. Additionally, the episode explores the current state of various NBA contenders, providing listeners with in-depth insights into team dynamics and trade possibilities.

De’Aaron Fox’s Trade Market

Ryan Rosillo opens the discussion by addressing the recent news surrounding De’Aaron Fox and the Sacramento Kings' openness to trading him. He draws parallels between Fox’s situation and that of Anthony Davis during his tenure with the New Orleans Pelicans.

Ryan Rosillo [17:05]:
"Fox is looking at the Sacramento Kings' roster and what they've done over the last couple of seasons and thinking he can do better somewhere else."

Chris Mannix agrees, likening Fox’s move to Davis’s strategy of leveraging his trade value to secure a better long-term position.

Chris Mannix [17:05]:
"This feels like a pure basketball play from De’Aaron Fox. I think he's looking at the next five or six years of his career."

Mannix elaborates on the robust market for Fox, suggesting teams like San Antonio, Houston, and Miami as potential suitors, provided Fox is willing to commit long-term.

Chris Mannix [18:14]:
"The market for Fox is robust for the teams that he'll indicate he's willing to resign with. You should be willing to give up multiple draft picks, young players, the kind of salary cap filler you're going to need to do to get there."

Jimmy Butler’s Trade Value and Possibilities

Transitioning to Jimmy Butler, Rosillo and Mannix discuss his diminishing trade value due to recent actions by both Butler and the Miami Heat.

Ryan Rosillo [32:41]:
"The management side of this on the Jimmy Butler part of it, like Windhorse had a line the other day saying, like, I could write a book about this."

Mannix highlights that Miami has started to lower their asking price due to Butler's recent insistence on being traded, making the possibility of a trade more likely.

Chris Mannix [34:43]:
"They are looking at the summer of 2026 when they have Bam and Tyler Herro under contract and a whole lot of cap flexibility to try to lure free agents down there."

He suggests that as the trade deadline approaches, Miami may settle for the best available offer rather than holding out for premium assets.

Chris Mannix [40:33]:
"When Butler opts in next year, but no contract extension on top of it, there was risk to it. They were feeling that the asking price was too high."

76ers and Embiid’s Performance

The conversation shifts to the Philadelphia 76ers, scrutinizing their disappointing performance despite Joel Embiid’s presence.

Ryan Rosillo [00:00]:
"Even with Embiid out for 32 of 45 games this season, that's unacceptable to be 11th in the East."

Mannix concurs, emphasizing that the 76ers' poor record is untenable and discusses potential tanking strategies.

Chris Mannix [05:00]:
"The 76ers are one game behind the Bulls for the 10th spot in the East. Even with Embiid out, that's the eighth worst record in the NBA."

He also touches upon Maxi Kleber’s role and the difficulty in improving the team’s standing without significant roster changes.

Paul George and the Clippers

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Paul George and why he isn’t with the Los Angeles Clippers.

Ryan Rosillo [26:07]:
"The Clippers saved themselves $211 million, which is a lot more expensive than a tribute video."

Mannix explains that the Clippers’ decision to move on from George was strategically driven by the need to protect their salary cap and maintain financial flexibility.

Chris Mannix [62:19]:
"The Clippers didn’t give George a fourth year because they didn’t want to lose the asset for nothing. It’s about protecting the salary slot."

Ryan criticizes George’s underperformance this season, questioning the Clippers’ decision to part ways with a multi-time All-Star.

Ryan Rosillo [34:38]:
"Paul George hasn't been the same player with his injuries, and the Clippers made a financially sound decision."

Contender Teams Analysis

Rosillo and Mannix expand their analysis to include other NBA contenders, evaluating their chances based on current performance and roster dynamics.

Houston Rockets:

• Struggling with injuries and roster flexibility.
• Potential to package young assets for a better deal.

Memphis Grizzlies:

• Seen as a wild card with strong shooting capabilities.
• Chris Mannix [44:55]:

"Memphis is interesting. They are two of the top Western Conference teams and could use another experienced player."

Cleveland Cavaliers:

• Improvements under Kenny Atkinson but still facing defensive challenges.
• Ryan Rosillo [52:29]:

"Cleveland has deep potential but defensive issues could be a stumbling block in the playoffs."

Boston Celtics:

• Maintains strong defensive and offensive ratings.
• Chris Mannix [53:01]:

"Boston is top 10 in both offensive and defensive ratings, making them a solid contender."

Minnesota Timberwolves and New York Knicks:

• Timberwolves face defensive matchups and injury concerns.
• Knicks have depth but need to bolster front court defense.

Los Angeles Lakers:

• Recent defensive improvements, but still not viewed as championship material.
• Ryan Rosillo [66:34]:

"The Lakers have shown improvement defensively recently, but their overall consistency is lacking."

Conclusion

Ryan Rosillo and Chris Mannix wrap up the episode by emphasizing the fluid nature of the NBA trade deadline and the importance of strategic decision-making by teams. They highlight the uncertainties surrounding key players like De’Aaron Fox and Jimmy Butler, and reaffirm the Clippers’ prudent handling of Paul George’s contract as a model of effective team management.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Chris Mannix [17:05]:
   "This feels like a pure basketball play from De’Aaron Fox. I think he's looking at the next five or six years of his career."

2. Ryan Rosillo [18:14]:
   "He's an incredibly impactful player. He's an awesome scorer. I don't think there's really been any issues where you're bringing him in and worrying about disruption."

3. Chris Mannix [34:43]:
   "When Butler opts in next year, but no contract extension on top of it, there was risk to it. They were feeling that the asking price was too high."

4. Ryan Rosillo [26:07]:
   "The Clippers saved themselves $211 million, which is a lot more expensive than a tribute video."

5. Chris Mannix [62:19]:
   "The Clippers didn’t give George a fourth year because they didn’t want to lose the asset for nothing. It’s about protecting the salary slot."

6. Ryan Rosillo [34:38]:
   "Paul George hasn't been the same player with his injuries, and the Clippers made a financially sound decision."

7. Chris Mannix [53:01]:
   "Boston is top 10 in both offensive and defensive ratings, making them a solid contender."

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a thorough analysis of key NBA trade dynamics, focusing on player valuations and team strategies. Ryan Rosillo and Chris Mannix offer valuable perspectives on De’Aaron Fox’s trade potential, Jimmy Butler’s evolving market value, and the strategic maneuvers of the Los Angeles Clippers concerning Paul George. Additionally, their evaluation of NBA contenders offers listeners a clearer understanding of the current competitive landscape.

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This summary captures the essential discussions and insights from the podcast episode, structured into clear sections with notable quotes for enhanced engagement and clarity.

Transcript

[Ryan Rosillo]

Foreign. We've got a lot of hoops for you, Chris Mannix, the Darren Fox News potential fits what those trades would look like to those other teams. Is this even something that's going to happen before the deadline? We got some stuff on Jimmy Butler, Beal, all the other names that you're used to now. But also we're going to take a look at the title contenders and go through the list of like the accepted ones and the group outside of that and our issues with those teams. I want to talk a little bit about Paul George and what he isn't and why he isn't on the Clippers and why the Clippers deserve a ton of credit for moving on and not doing business the way business is always done. And that relates to a bunch of different stuff we see in the NBA today and life advice. Enjoy this episode of the Ryan Resilla Podcast is presented by State Farm Bring home a win with an affordable price when you bundle home and auto with the personal price plan. Talk to Estate Farm Agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by US bank earn up to 4% cash back on every purchase with the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. Start by earning unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. Then earn up to an additional 2% cash back when you pair your card with the US Bank Smartly Savings Account. Have qualifying balances and deposit your rewards into a US bank account. Visit usbank.com smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. bank National association pursuant to a license from Visa USA Inc. Some restrictions may apply. Slow night in the association last night, but I want to talk about the Sixers here a little bit. They beat the Lakers. Sixers have won three in a row. That's exciting. We could go through the schedule stuff and who's playing and who's not playing, but there's some good wins in there. I still think. All right, Cleveland, no, Mobley, whatever. Chicago. I don't think Kobe White played Lakers last night. AD left and they were on the back to back. Whatever, man. When you have the Sixers record and are, I would think, generally accepted as the biggest disappointment in the league so far, winning three in a row is a good thing. Bronnie also played last night for the Lakers. I don't have a ton on that. 15 minutes. It was rough.05 from the floor. The 031 stat line. They played him. Reddick talked about like, look, we had the back to back. We thought maybe there was be a nice little energy boost from this. He did say that he put Bronnie in a tough spot. I think that's a coach being nice. I think that's kind of stupid. Standard operating procedure in the NBA. Ownership, front office, coach, hospitality staff. Be nice. Be nice to our NBA players. Right. Because that's the way business is done. I also think he was deflecting a bit for a younger player, which is totally fine and part of the job as well. Right. Said he's been playing great in the G League. I'm not going to get into semantics here. I don't know that great would be the word that I would use. But I understand. Hey, a little bit of energy and it looked pretty tough. But that's not why I'm here today. I don't want to talk about that. I've already touched on it. The 76ers, a few things here. They're one game behind the Bulls for the 10th spot in the east. And even with embiid out for 32 of 45 games this season, that's unacceptable to be 11th in the East. 18 and 27, the eighth worst record in the NBA. And we could talk about tanking if you want. Right. Because I always feel like there's this Red Auerbach philosophy that I always thought was like a really good lesson where he said a year is not a long time. What he meant by that is like when you're building out your team, you're thinking about the long term stuff where like in the moment it feels like a massive sacrifice to just go. I think it was had a lot to do with like drafting Bird early, but it was, hey, if this is something we think like long term is going to help us, like we have to sacrifice today for it. And it's really hard to sacrifice today, especially when it's the day to day of the results in pro sports here. But the tank approach isn't really as much about the draft class and what you could add to this group. Right. If you said like we got bad Embiid news the rest of the year actually do have to shut it down. But you know we're going to just ramp it all back up because that's what the contracts tell us we're going to do. This is a team we're bringing back. Maybe add a Big pick. But on top of that, the pick is owed to Oklahoma City, as you already know, because of the horror for Danny Green deal. And that pick is top six protected. So would it make sense, like, if you had another Embiid setback to go, all right, shut down Paul, George and Max, you can take 30 shots and maybe we can get into that top four? Well, if you look at the odds this morning of getting into the top four, because that's how the lottery work. It's like a 26% chance of getting into that top four. Does it make sense? Does it make sense if you're the Sixers and you're looking at the rest of that group of teams that you'd be competing with against, like, trying to tank against, like, could you really make up that kind of ground? I don't know. That'd be tough because there's a lot of losses coming the second half of the season for a bunch of those teams, especially with the Cooper flag prize awaiting whoever lands a number one pick. You know, hell, I'll look at Portland sometimes. They beat Milwaukee last night and I'm like, I don't think they're good. But why is it like, every time Portland sub somebody else in, I'm like, oh, yeah, cool. Let's see what he's going to do tonight. Last night during the Sixers broadcast, we also saw a historic graphic for Embiid, which I understand everybody just dumping on him here last night was the 400th missed game of his career. So he's missed 400 and he's played in 446. If you want to be totally fair to Embiid, which I think is important, I don't think they necessarily wanted him playing those first couple years because they were trying to lose so many games. Back to the tanking theme here. But. But the way he's played when he's been in the games this year, like, you hope he's hurt because it's been that bad, despite him finding a way to still get his numbers. So I don't have more criticism for Embiid right now on all this. This off season, we know the 76ers pulled off something that's damn near impossible. There's nothing that has made NBA fans more excited, that has simultaneously massively disappointed them than future cap space and the Sixers. Because the Clippers didn't want to give Paul George a fourth year, found Paul George available for their four years and 200 plus million dollars and said, will do it because this is actually going to Work. And you pair that with, in theory, the healthy Embiid and nailing the 21st pick in a draft with Maxi and getting a guy who's going to be an All Star already has been an All Star at maxi at 21. Like, all this stuff is really, really hard to do. And then everybody has to play. You've got to see it come together. George didn't play last night. He's got a finger issue. He's missed 15 of 45 games at 34. We all know this is the worst season he's had in years. You got to go back to, like, when he still wasn't the fully formed version of Paul George. To be fair, he's played better in January, shot the hell out of the basketball. And the 10 games that he's played, the team's been three and seven. I would think that Maxi and the version that you paid for of Paul George, the guy that's made multiple All Star teams in recent years of the Clippers, like, that should be good enough. I'm not saying top four in the east, but that should be good enough. Cause it's not like everybody else on the Sixers team is terrible, right? I thought we spent a lot of time this summer talking about how good of a job they were doing filling in all these extra roster spots. The Paul George that you thought you were getting for this season with Maxi should be good enough for this team to. I don't know if I'd say out of the play in range, but closer to 6 than 11. How about that? Is that fair? But Paul George is going to have a weird career. I think about talking to the kids I'm probably not going to have. And if my son asked me one day and said, what was Paul George like, Papa. And if my answer always starts with a sigh, I think that's all I really need to do. Well, do I need to say anything else? There's a few players that I would probably. If I had an imaginary kid who said, what was this guy like? Oh, other guys. I know I would. Right? We know how talented he is. We also know he's weird. Like, he does a good job on his podcast, but every now and then they'll pop out and I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? There's a report last night, Paul George was upset that he hadn't received a tribute video yet on his return to Pacers games. And it was actually a story. It made the rounds. Like, his quote was, yeah, it sucks. It sucks. I've been Back this many times and it sucks. Like, why do you care about this stuff? And sometimes I allow myself to think, is it somebody that says these things and cares about this kind of stuff? Does that mean that, like, it matches his basketball personality with the size and the skill and the handle and shooting and all that extra stuff? Like, this is why this guy still in moments when Embiid wasn't out there and they needed him to be aggressive offensively, it's like, is he out there right now? Like, oh, he. There he is over there. So, yeah, this hasn't been awesome this year with George, but his thoughts on not having a tribute video kind of mirror some of the themes I was talking about at the beginning of this is that tribute videos are nice. NBA players like to be treated nicely. Dwight Howard got a tribute video with the Hawks and he said he's from Atlanta. Well, he was with the Hawks one season. All right, but that's not even the worst one. Raul Netto got one from the Wizards. He was there two years. People have a problem with Pat Riley and his comments about Jimmy Butler kindness cost zero dollars and zero cents because they're just so shocked that somebody's actually not being nice. Even if that player, and again Paul George isn't Jimmy Butler here. But if even in the Jimmy Butler case, we're like, hasn't been a sick employee, they can't believe it's like, no. In the NBA you're just supposed to be nice to everybody the entire time. I like that Pat Riley doesn't care. I know some of you look at it more straightforward that are not on Jimmy Butler's side. Right. That are saying Jimmy Butler is under contract and if I have a contract I have to show up to work. Yeah. And you're probably not like awesome in the way that Jimmy Butler has been awesome in the past. Like, I appreciate everything you're doing over there, wherever you are, but whenever you're doing like the NBA employment dynamic compared to your real world situation, it just never works. The pro athlete workplace in comparison to the everyman thing doesn't work. We don't expect everybody to be nice to us all the time. And I don't know that we're is irrational about like the times. Imagine quitting a job. Be like, yeah, I had to stop by there the other day. They weren't super nice. They didn't have a video for me. But again, none of that real world stuff compares to any of this stuff. I remember one time there was a fight in an NFL game or maybe it was like, it might have been a inner squad thing, like, you know, the scrimmages that we see where everybody just gets super pissed at each other. Towards the end of August and there was somebody I was working with on TV that was like, well, all I know is at my workplace I'm not allowed to fight people. It's like, yeah, I've like for a lot of places I would, I would ask anybody that has that kind of approach to looking at the sports world be like, does your job involve avoiding paralysis once a week? Look, I don't really care about that part, okay. I don't care about like comparing everyday workplace stuff to pro athletes. And you know who really doesn't care? The NBA player under contract. They don't care. We're seeing it right now with Aaron Fox doesn't care. I don't have a big problem with Fox, as I did say Ben Simmons before day one of the four year extension kicked in or maybe a Damian Lillard having that extension and being like, okay, I also want to leave and I only want to go there. And I wonder if Dame looks in Miami and is like, you know what? Kind of glad I'm in Milwaukee right now. But yeah, history tells the NBA player doesn't care because he's used to everybody being nice to him the entire time. The new CBA makes it harder. We've talked about that. The other thing that NBA history tells us on the business side of things is that Paul Paul George gets a fourth year with la. And I've thought about this more recently. The reason history tells is that Paul George gets the fourth year is because you don't want to just lose the asset for nothing. Right. I don't know if that's being nice as much as it's protecting the asset and feeling like, well, if we remove this from it, then we don't have the same salary slot. You know, look, you know, all the different things, but the second apron and the new cba, maybe, maybe he's going to change a lot of this stuff. But yeah, normally Paul George just get that fourth year. Especially when you look at the ownership of the Clippers, that Ballmer, I was looking at the numbers this morning. I think he's worth more than the next nine or ten NBA owners combined. But they didn't give George a fourth year and ultimately they were right. Can you imagine paying Paul George 57 million three years from now? Because that's what the Sixers are looking at with that player option. I think he's supposed to be good enough at this age and what he had done the previous two years. He's supposed to be good enough to at least have the Sixers on some kind of life support here where they're not looking at the 11th seed this morning. But he hasn't been. So the clippers saved themselves $211 million, which is a lot more expensive than a tribute video. Foreign the fanduel Kick of Destiny is back. And this time it's every Manning for himself. This Super Bowl 2 legends will take the field in a sudden death field goal showdown. Peyton versus Eli live from New Orleans. One kick to claim ultimate family bragging rights. Who will rise to the moment? Pick your winner now in the FanDuel app and if you back the right brother, you'll earn a share of $10 million in bonus bets. It's the fanduel kick of Destiny 3. Make your free pick and don't forget to tune in to watch the showdown live during The Super Bowl 59 pregame show on Fox at 3pm Eastern. May the best Manning win. FanDuel official partner of Super Bowl 59 must be 21 and older and present select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. no purchase necessary. Bonus issued is non withdrawal bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Sea [e-mail] gambling problem call 100 GAMBLER visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. You can choose the insurance coverage that fits your needs at a price you can afford. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. A lot of NBA for you today midweek, so I'm happy to do it with so much football coming up the next few episodes. And joining us now from sportsillustratedsi.com and his coverage of boxing for Dazn is Chris Mannix. So what I wanted to do at the end of this we'll talk a little bit about the contending group of teams and maybe how big that list is in comparison to our hopes this summer. But I want to start with some of the stuff that we we didn't touch on yesterday. Bill and I did his trade value annual piece and the De'Aaron Fox News happened just as we were finishing up the taping. And I don't know that this is a shock. You know, it's, it's been a team that's tried its best here and maybe Fox just looking at the next stage of his career. So let's just start with the news of Fox or at least Sacramento, I guess the report was that they were open to the idea of trade. And again, a lot of this stuff's become semantics when it's not that insightful, but just kind of where you were at with this becoming a little bit more official yesterday.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, to me, this is a, a page being taken out of the Anthony Davis playbook. If you go back to what, four or five years now when Davis was in New Orleans and you know, he effectively declared that he wasn't going to sign a contract extension with the Pelicans. He was loud about it at that time, but that was a clear signal for New Orleans that, you know, whether you get a trade done now or in the off season, you probably need to get a trade done or else I'm going to walk at the end of the season. This feels very similar. You know, back then, AD was around the same age as De'Aaron Fox. They happen to have the same representation at this time. So I just think that this is, this is a pure basketball play from De'Aaron Fox. I think he's looking at the next five or six years of his career. He's looking at the Sacramento Kings roster and what they've done over the last couple of seasons and thinking he can do better somewhere else. You can argue, really, Ryan, that kind of doing Sacramento a favor there. Like, yeah, sure they want to resign him to a long term deal, but if, if he's not going to sign that contract, better to get started now on a potential trade that then have to kind of wait till this time next season and take whatever the best offer is on the table.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I like the AD comp because you're right. I mean, he's halfway through the deal this year. He's got the contract for next year and that's what it was. Because like, that line has always moved and I love talking about that of like when it was acceptable. Right. Because it used to be if your contract was expiring then you could say, all right, well I'm going in my last year and I'm not resigning here. And then it becomes like the debates that we used to have about Lamelo and LeBron, like, who actually did it the right way it really depended on who you liked more because you feel like, well, look, LeBron was a free agent and he left, as is his right. Where if you ask anybody with Denver during that mellow time, it's like, yeah, Mello wasn't exactly doing us a favor because it was, it was brutal. So I think the market for Fox, like at his best, you'd think this would be somebody that pulls in one of those all time halls because of his age. And you know, I don't, I don't really like looking at somebody's value like week to week with this. He's an incredibly impactful player. He's an awesome scorer. I don't think there's really been any issues where you're bringing him in and worrying about disruption like some of the other guys that have wanted to force their ways out. So what do you think the market is for Fox?

[Chris Mannix]

I think it's robust for the teams that he'll indicate he's willing to resign with. I don't believe it's a kind of situation like it was with AD and the Lakers where if you trade AD, the Lakers, he was going to sign that long term contract extension if you traded him anywhere else. I mean, Rich Paul said this publicly at the time, like he's going to go to free agency. He's, you know, wherever you trade him, he's got to go to free agency. I, I think if you can get an indication from Dearon Fox that he's willing to play in X City long term, you, you should be willing to give up multiple draft picks, young players, the kind of salary cap filler you're going to need to do to, to get there. So if I'm San Antonio, obviously that's something I'm looking at. If I'm Houston, which you know, as you well know, has been telegraphed to anybody that will listen that they're not going to do anything at this trade deadline. They want to see exactly where they are with this group. But I think they would have to listen. Miami in a similar situation, they would have to listen. I think the first thing you got to do is find out, you know, through Fox's reps if he's willing to play there long term. And if he is, you know, it's not a historic haul that you can get for him, but you can get multiple young players, multiple draft picks and cap flexibility moving forward for him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

How do you think the Houston deal works? Before you answer that, when I look at Houston and I think Stone has done a terrific job with this group. And the likelihood though, is like, you're going to hit it on all these picks and then you're going to start making contract decisions. And clearly the Jalen Green thing, like, I give them a lot of credit for being that creative about that being like, we know you score a ton of points and you're our top pick and we're supposed to just re sign you to the rookie max. Like history tells you, the teams always do that, but let's get a little creative with it because we're not sure. And this is still a lot of money up front with all of it. You know, Jabari is somebody I really liked, but I think sometimes I have to be honest of like, what do you really think his ceiling is? And now you have a men coming on and tearing it up and still other guys that aren't even playing. Like, I love just seeing Jayson Tate back out there because I really, I really like. When they weren't good, I was like, you know, I think he might be all right. So there's a ton of different options on top of the contract stuff that you would think with Van Vliet would have to be in part of this deal. So as much as you could say, hey, let's just ride it out and evaluate our own guys so we don't move off of somebody quickly, the odds would tell you you might, you might do better in the marketplace with some of the unknown pieces as opposed to then figuring out we just don't have enough minutes to even know who this guy is.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, that, that's a, a looming problem for the Rockets. I mean, I was watching that game against Atlanta last night. They, they just squeaked that one out at the end. But Jayshawn Tate comes off the bench, had what, like 15 points for him in that game. Like, they're getting contributions from a lot of different guys. A lot of different guys in that rotation can play. So I think whether it's this February or probably more likely this off season, you've got to start thinking about packaging, you know, a few of these young players to, to get that one established star. And look, they, they've got some flexibility here, right? Like, if you're going into this deadline and you're looking to make a big deal, that Fred Van Vliet contract is terrific for 40 ish million dollars a team option for the next year. That gives whoever acquires him the flexibility to keep him or, or, or wave him and create salary cap space. You know, Jabari Smith I like, but with Thompson there Like, how much overlap is there at that kind of position? Like, is Thompson going to be usurping all those minutes, you know, for the foreseeable future, I would, I would play him as many minutes as he could possibly play. I mean, if that guy ever develops a semi reliable 3 point shot, look out like he, he's elite in the NBA, so I'd want to keep him up there for a minute. So you got Cam Whitmore there, you've got Tari Eason there, you've got a whole bunch of guys that, that can play. So I, I don't know if it happens, you know, before February 6th, but definitely before the start of next season, you've got to put these kind of pieces together and go get yourself another star that fits. And look, Van Vliet's a good player right now, but he's not a long term fit for this group. He doesn't fit the age timeline of most these guys and dear and Fox does. So look, if I'm Houston, I'm, I'm talking to Sacramento about what it would take. I'm looking at what my roster would look like afterwards. I'm, I'm kicking off, you know, over all the rocks to see if this, this is a real deal.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It feels like it makes more sense just strictly based on age thing than waiting out to see if like the Phoenix thing was a disaster. Because I think there were some rumblings about that whether it was Durant wanted Houston or they were willing to, to wait it out, but is going to.

[Chris Mannix]

Burn this down to like the foundation. Like, I don't, I don't look at the Suns as being a team that's, you know, whether it's now definitely not, but, or the off season, whether or not they're going to be open for business. I just think Matt Ishbia is going to keep, you know, throwing logs on this fire and, and seeing what, what happens with this group. I wouldn't count on them, you know, dealing at Durant, certainly not dealing with Devin Booker anytime soon.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I understand and I think we, we agree, but it's just the reality of the fact that next year is the last year on Durant's deal and if he isn't going to do something and if then Durant, based on his own history, decided like say Phoenix has a disastrous end to the season, I don't think it's out of the question that Durant would go, well, I'm not going to resign here anyway and you know, you might as well go ahead and move on from me, I think that that stuff was, was certainly in the gossip, you know, world that we're in of like, hey, you know, look out for Houston in a Durant thing. But, I mean, there comes a time with Durant where you're like, okay, but if I'm trading for him, like, how far am I extending out a guy who's still, look, we understand how terrific he is and, and being an All Star again this year, but it might just make more sense. And I, I think there's always like a Pacers lesson that I have with what are you supposed to do? Like, especially, like, Houston's different than Indiana, but when they brought in Siakam, like, well, if he wants to resign there, like, at first I was like, okay, that's. That's an interesting deal. And then I remember talking about, like, the uncertainty of his future, and then somebody who knew texted me when they heard the podcast. They're like, he's. It's a done deal. Like, he's going to extend. He's going to stay there. You're like, yeah, if you're the Pacers, that's. That's probably pretty good for you. And if you're waiting on perfect, you're going to be waiting forever. And we could get like, really creative with what other possibilities are better than De'Aaron Fox. If you're listening to this now and you're a Rockets fan and you know Fox isn't like, perfect for you, but he's pretty good man. Like, he's. As far as, like, what your options are known versus unknown, it would make a lot of sense. And I think waiting until this. Well, maybe they won't do anything but waiting until this summer if Sacramento's ready to make a move. And again, this is more on the deer and side of things, but if they're willing to make a move, I'd be worried about waiting if I were Houston.

[Chris Mannix]

You always have to be worried. But my sense is that San Antonio, if they do make an offer, is not going to put their best foot forward right now. Like, there's no urgency in San Antonio. I mean, this is kind of another honeymoon year where they get a little bit better. They probably fight for a play in spot this year. There's no urgency within the spurs to, especially with Wembanyama with 20, 21 years old to do a deal right now. So I don't think you have to worry about them. I don't think you have to worry too much about Miami putting together an offer that will blow Sacramento away. And the Kings have, have the ability to be patient as well. Certainly holding on to Fox beyond the deadline makes this season and the rest of it really uncomfortable. I get that. But you know, I, I know that in their front office they're not going to just reflexively knee jerk deal this guy just because he may want to be dealt before February 6th. So I, I, I, I get there's risk with the Rockets, you know, waiting beyond February, but I, I don't get the sense right now that there should be an immediate fear of any of these other teams stepping to the plate with some kind of overwhelming offer that will blow Sacramento away.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, so that's kind of the sense that you get now. So it's the news, but within the next couple weeks, like, do you think Sacramento goes, hey, we brought in demar and I understand why they did the Demar thing. Like, I've explained it a couple different times. It's just if you're closing 5 is DEMAR or Harrison Barnes, you'd rather close with that. And they're just trying to raise whatever ceiling they could possibly have in a crowded west. But you know, they made the Mike Brown change where they ate a ton of money on that. And it felt like it had to do with Fox. Fox said it had nothing to do, but what was Fox going to say? Like, yeah, it was definitely me and they changed it and Christie puts together a good start since taking over for him. So I mean it. Do you think it's just done done or is Sacramento hoping to maybe play the long game here and like, let's just get through the trade deadline, see how the season goes and maybe we can revisit keeping him. Cause I imagine they'd rather keep him than be forced to trade him.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, I, I, they would. I, I do feel like it's probably done done. He could have resigned last summer to a long term extension. Now obviously there were other reasons he might not do that. The all NBA, the supermax, all the things that, that he could have earned in this coming season, but he didn't do it. And now he's saying he's not going to do it. I think the longest you could wait is, is this off season. I don't, I don't think you can go into, you know, the training camp next year with the Aaron Fox part of your team. And I, I do think you get to the summer and you get to the draft and all the, all the other flexibility, it's out there. I think there's going to be a really good offer For Sacramento, it's probably going to be a rebuilding offer. Like you're not going to get dollar for dollar value back from De'Aaron Fox. Like it's, you're just not going to get it. So, so the Kings unfortunately are, you know, probably looking at a pivot here, having to, to rebuild around young players and draft picks, which is a tough pill to swallow when they were 48 win team last year, third in the Western Conference. So much excitement about, you know, like the beam, this entire, all the things that went to Sacramento kind of being re. Energized, but I don't see any, you know, we mentioned or the Davis Pelican situation. Like it's kind of, they kind of put themselves in the Pelican situation where you get a bunch of draft capital and the young players back in return and you try to, to rebuild that way. I think that's the inevitability for Sacramento right now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I mean, it's a crazy reminder. Two years ago they're the three seed, you know, and you know, they, they had their, you know what I mean? It's like this was the window, what a nice story. Stability in Sacramento. They've done a pretty good job of the margins. And then you're like, yeah, that's probably like your max. And again, it's three seed.

[Chris Mannix]

Can I ask you this question? Like, do you, do you blame Fox for any of this? Like if I put, if I put myself in De'Aaron Fox's shoes and I'm looking at the Kings and it's kind of a mess there. You know, they bring Christie in and yeah, he's had some success, but like they're, they're trending in the wrong direction right now. And you look at the rest of the Western Conference, I'm sure Fox is looking at that roster saying, all right, can, you know, me and Demontes are good, but can we compete with these elite teams? Like if, if I'm dearon Fox and I have the opportunity, let's just say to tie myself to Victor Weyama for the next 10 years, I'd probably take it too. I'd probably, you know, say, do the exact same thing and say I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, demand a trade publicly and sit out and pull a Jimmy Butler, but I'm just going to tell you right now that I'm not going to sign a long term extension. Do you, would you agree with what he's doing?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I wouldn't be critical of Fox. I, I understand it and I Don't know if that's being numb to this for so many years, although I do think that the tide is turning a little bit just because the CBA and the lack of flexibility, that it's going to be a wake up call for some guys here. Or I think we're seeing that with Jimmy Butler, which I certainly want to get to. Or it's like you don't get to just do whatever you want anymore, even though in the past that's basically what had happened for years and years. So, you know, I think that he's, he's done his best. You know, then it can also turn into like, hey, maybe the team would be better if you were better. And he's, you know, he's had a little bit of the ups and downs, but I think overall, like, he's been a really good player for them. He's young enough to probably want to move on to the next part of this. And I think looking at Sacramento moving forward the next couple of years in comparison to the rest of the west, like, he knows, he knows there's no, no chance at this. And he didn't sign the extension even though there was more financially available to him if he hit some of those other incentives, let's say. But he didn't do what some of these other guys have done where they've signed the four year extension and then said, okay, now I want to move on. So I think a lot of it is just what the culture of the NBA is. And in, in, in Fox's case, and he hasn't, I don't think, been like this crazy pain in the ass like some of these other guys have been, I totally get it and I don't really have any criticism for him.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, I, I, I feel the same way. I mean, we've all changed locations, we've all changed jobs. I think you said it right, like he didn't sign the extension, get his money, and then say, hey, I don't want to be here anymore. He's just saying, look, I'm going to fulfill my contract and I'm probably going to go somewhere else and you know, if you want to get something for me before then, you know, up and trade me. It sucks for this year because the Kings have been playing some pretty good basketball, but he's just doing what anyone else would do if they want a change of location. So it's, it's a dramatic turn for Sacramento, but it's, it's, it's certainly not the same as, as what Jimmy Butler's doing in Miami?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, it. It's. It's definitely not that. And it's also like, each person is like, what's the track record? And when you're comparing Jerem Fox track record, you can't compare it to Jimmy Butler or even some of these other guys we've spent talking about in the past few years of, like, wait, this guy's doing this now? And so when this happened, it's not like any of us are really all that surprised. I. My first reaction was not like, oh, I can't believe he's doing this. This now. Even though I can understand how incredibly disappointing it is for Kings fans. So I think we've covered enough of that. Then let's just do the Butler part of it, because this is. It's not really a take side. I don't. I don't know. I guess I'm surprised there are people out there kind of arguing Jimmy's side, and it's like, okay, so what. What are the points that you have? Because I think the. The management side of this on. On the Jimmy Butler part of it, like, Windhorse had a line the other day saying, like, I could write a book about this. I'm not sure what's true or not. But let's just. I don't even need you to take the side. Let's just talk about his market and the likelihood of him being moved before the deadline in February.

[Chris Mannix]

I think it's pretty high now. And if you had asked me that on Monday or Sunday over the weekend, I would have leaned towards him staying. Because when I talked to teams about what Miami was asking for in exchange for Jimmy Butler, several, which those teams were still looking at Jimmy, as you know, this year, if he opts in next year, but no contract extension on top of it, there was risk to it. They were feeling that the asking price was too high. Young players, draft picks, contracts that don't go beyond 2026, which is what Miami's kind of looking at. Like, they are looking at the summer of 2026 when they have Bam and Tyler Herro under contract and whole lot of cap flexibility to try to lure free agents down there. You know, over the weekend, it just seemed like the price was too high for everybody except for Phoenix. And Phoenix, despite their best efforts, has not been able to get anyone even remotely interested in Bradley Beal. Not to mention Bradley Beal is remotely interested in going anywhere but a contender. I was explicitly told by someone close to him that unless it is a contender, Bradley Beal is not, you know, waiving that no trade clause for a deal. So I felt we were nowhere over the weekend. But the Jimmy Butler, George Costanza act, continuing to try to get fired and walking out of the, the shoot around, that's changed some of the dynamics in Miami, at least according to the. The people I've talked to around the league that, that the price has gone down a little bit. They're not looking for quite as much draft capital. They're not looking for quite as much in terms of young talent. They still don't want salary that goes beyond 20, 26. That, to me, if this deal gets done, you're not going to see any, any contracts that go beyond the 25, 26 season. But in terms of what they're asking for in return, it. It has dipped considerably in the last 48 hours. And that, that's led me, led me to believe that when we get to February 5th, Miami's probably just going to take the best deal on the table.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What do you think the best deal is like of the reality deals, of what could actually happen here?

[Chris Mannix]

It's just hard to know what exactly is real at the moment. I do think Memphis is interesting. I don't think Jimmy wants to go to Memphis to continue with the Seinfeld references, but I do, I do know that Memphis has had a level of interest in him and they do have what, what the Heat would want. You know, those contracts in like a Marcus Smart to Brandon Clark, maybe throw one draft picked in there. We know that the Grizzlies have been after kind of that wing defender because they were right there knocking on the doorstep of, you know, Dorian Finney Smith before the Lakers swooped in to grab him. They're to me, they, to me, are a team to watch over these next couple of weeks. They're right there at the top of the Western Conference standings. They could use another experienced, proven player to match up with a team like Oklahoma City or Denver in the playoffs. It would be a roll of the dice for Memphis because, you know, a couple of weeks ago I had been writing that the Jimmy Butler, the two teams he has basically been communicating that he didn't want to go to were the Memphis Grizzlies and the Sacramento Kings, basically saying, like, look, don't. Don't acquire me if, if, if there's an option to do it out there. But a lot's been changing, Ryan, these next, these last couple of weeks, has Jimmy Butler's mindset changed? Has, you know, has Memphis's approach changed? But that's a team I would probably watch because he makes a lot of sense in that rotation.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He does make sense in the Memphis rotation. And. Right. You've heard all the same things. I think it's very specific to Memphis that he wants nothing to do, and it would scare the hell out of me. Yeah, like, can you come in and just see what this is like without any contract extension? And, I mean, does he play hard for the rest of the year with a good chance at seeing what they can do in the playoffs? Does he think, hey, this is the best way to increase my own value? Like, if it's really about the contract extension, then show up and play great basketball and be into it. But I don't know, man. That would scare the hell out of me. If I'm Taylor Jenkins, I'd be like, you know, like, hey, what do you think? You're. You're just like. Because you're thinking about the basketball part of it going, that'd be really nice for us. But now. Now what? Or does he get there and he loves John, he loves Jaren Jackson. He starts to like. Like some of those other personalities where. I think when Memphis is rolling, the personality to that team is. Is a lot of fun, even if opponents hate it. I just wonder if he'd be into that kind of, like, you know, I don't know if it's. If it's still the same as. As the Grindhouse and everything that we loved about those teams, but in a way, there's. There's almost a personality fit for Butler that he may not even be thinking about that once he got there, but again, past the summer, then it may be like, hey, a nice little run, some noise in the playoffs, and now this is a disaster that we've inherited, and was it actually worth it? And that's. I don't have the answer to the math on that one.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, I think if you're. If you're Memphis, you've got to be really careful about what you're willing to give up for all the reasons you just laid out there. At the same time, I can certainly see a scenario where Jimmy fits in with those guys, with Ja, With Jaren Jackson, with Desmond Bain. You know, I'm curious to see what the Taylor Jenkins fit is, that. That those are two personalities. I'm wondering if that would. Would work, but I can see a scenario where it works out. And if you get to the end of the season, let's say Memphis gets the conference finals with Jimmy Butler, would they be willing to give him two years, 111 million? Probably not. Would they give him one year, 50 million or whatever? It may be. On top of that, maybe, maybe there's a compromise that can be reached where Jimmy can opt into his contract and effectively have a two year deal that will take him to the rest of his career. I mean, that, that, that's a situation that I think makes, makes a lot of sense for both sides if they're both willing to kind of compromise on, you know, the, the what they were optimally looking for.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I'm letting myself kind of like think about him responding to the personalities on that team and being like, all right, let's, let's do this. Like every other cities, everybody else's favorite in the west and you know, we're overlooked and granted this is the availability of their own players because you're talking about that Sacramento three seed, like Memphis was a two seed that year, but then they weren't healthy going into the whole thing. Maybe, but you know, history tells you assuming Jimmy's going to be on board long term is the wrong assumption. Is there another name outside of the three that we just touched on here that we need, that's a big enough of a name that you think we need to pay attention to before the deadline?

[Chris Mannix]

I don't know. Look, Zach Levine's a big name, but I don't know if we should be paying attention. Honestly. I don't get the sense that there's a market for Zach Levine right now. He's having a great year, but that, that contract and the injury history has red flagged him to, to a lot of teams out there. So, you know, he, he's someone that we're going to be talking about because we don't know what the Bulls are going to do. But I, I don't get the sense that there is a, a bidding war right now for Zach Levine. Same thing with Vucevich in Chicago. I, you know, would a team like the warriors, the Lakers or somebody like that like to get there, get a hold of him? Yeah, but he's got a big contract. It's probably going to be an asking price, a steep asking price back in return like, you know, you know, Cam Johnson, another guy, he's Cam Johnson I would guess will ultimately get moved. I think the asking price is pretty high right now. Multiple first round picks from what I've heard for Cam Johnson. Does that come down when the Nets, who have just no interest in being remotely good right now, before February 6th, maybe. But you know, these are, there's a low burn on these Guys, right now, maybe that heats up when we get towards early February, but right now it's, it's, you know, the guys we've talked about, you know, Jimmy Butler and to a lesser degree maybe De'Aaron Fox.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. When I was thinking about Cam Johnson the other day. Just because the OKC part of it, right? So we look at the picks and you're like, well, they could do it if they wanted to, right. And it doesn't hurt them. But then it becomes a salary thing. Or it's like, okay, but if you're bringing on his contract and even though it's one of the better contracts at 20 million next year, 22 and a half the year after that, still on the right side of 30, then it makes a lot of sense. But they're going to have all these other financial commitments that they have to worry about. And historically, like, I don't think OKC is going to be a second apron team, but it reminded me a bit of like what Billy Bean used to do with the A's, where he would trade for the big name player somewhere else, knowing that he was then going to flip him like a year after that. And I wonder if OKC would be like, this is like big, who makes a ton of shots. His shooting numbers are incredible. And he can handle, like he's not just a big that stretches the floor. He can handle, he can reposition himself to get his shot off, which is like just, I think a massive differentiator between like shooters. Like, can you shoot it when you have to change off the catch or can you only shoot it on the catch? And he's a guy that can change and get into a shot. So I think that just adds to the flexibility of, of just how much I love when OKC just repositions and moves and everybody stays engaged the possession. So I think he's like a good fit there as opposed to some of the other ball stopping spacing that we have in the league. But the other challenge becomes. And again, I don't even know if that A's theory even works out. It's like, well, why don't we trade for Cam? It doesn't hurt us because we have all the picks. And then if we want to flip him, then we can flip him and then not worry about all the other contract stuff. It's just like, where are you getting the money to put together for OKC on that side of it? Because you like all of the players, I'm assuming you like me like so many of them, like Isaiah Joe is an important part of the rotation, and he's under contract for multiple years moving forward. Like, a really good number. I like Aaron Wiggins. I think he's one of the most underrated players in the league for, like, what he is and what your expectations would be. I mean, I don't know if it's a. A Kenrich Usman jank thing where you're. You're trying to. I don't know where they're coming up with the money, because unless they just go, hey, these two are not worth what the Cam in. Cam's potentially closing a playoff game for us in comparison to some of these other names. Like, it's just challenging because once again, they've done such a good job of who they've even spent the money.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah. And maybe it's the other Jalen Williams you'd have a conversation about, though. He's been. When he's been available, he's shown he can play.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. But he makes like 2 million bucks.

[Chris Mannix]

I know you. You just start stacking salaries. Basically, Cam's. What it. Like, Cam's at 20ish.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think 22. And then it's. Yeah, so it's 22 is the number for this year. Yeah. It's weird because it goes like 22. It's 22 and a half and then goes to 20 and a half, then back to 22 and a half, so.

[Chris Mannix]

Well, that's an Oklahoma City type of deal. They love those descending contracts for. For one. I don't know what. I honestly don't know what the answer is. I can see them doing something like that just to kick the can down the road a little bit further. I think Cam Johnson would help them. You know, I think his floor spacing would be useful to them. But. But to your point, they don't want to give up these guys. They like these guys. These guys are playing in this rotation, and when I go to Oklahoma City and I'm. I'm becoming a resident nowadays, going back there in a week. I love watching, you know, this team play when I go there. Like, you know, they. They really want to see what they got in the playoffs. Like, they, you know, Chet's going to come back after the All Star break, and they want to see what this team can do when it's all together and make whatever decision they have to make next summer. I mean, when I was out there last time, Ryan, it's like I'm having this long conversation with a Thunder official about Nikola topic and what he's going to bring to the table next summer. Like that we can't wait to get him into summer league. And you know, the lottery picked that from last year. Like they want to see what he can do. So it, there's, there's going to come a breaking point with, with all these guys and we. While a Cam Johnson deal would, I can see how it, it makes sense for them to do. Unless they can put together a bunch of guys that aren't in the rotation right now, there's not many of them because they go 10 or 11 deep most nights. Unless they can put together a package that will include guys they know they're not going to hold on to. I don't see, you know, them making a deal like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Since you've spent so much time there. I'm just going to ask how. I don't know that I've ever seen it and maybe know the weird thing about like age and rebuilding is I think the mistake is made. It's like, all right, we're rebuilding so everybody has to be between 18 and 21 years old. And you're like, well that's actually stupid. And I remember like the first time somebody explained it to me, it's like if you have 15 guys that all think they're going to be hall of Famers and they haven't accepted their NBA reality yet, like I know you're rebuilding, but there's not a downside to having like a 32 year old on the team that's big, been through the wars, knows the NBA life and isn't expecting to make an all star team that year yet. When you look at what OKC has done, they're on the young side of things. They play basketball in a way where I don't know how they did it. I don't know if it's the coach, I don't know if it's presteon down. I don't know if it's player development, maybe it's their draft profiling of, of whatever they could be doing on personalities. But the buy in from every guy that gets minutes from them is such a rarity in the NBA. And I don't want to say I've never seen this before, but they play so many players that have bought in. It's just almost unheard of to see this many dudes that get minutes all seem to be like totally locked into what their role is and what the teams approaches for that game. Look, maybe they don't win a title, but I think this is one of the most impressive groups I'M not talking from like a talent standpoint, but just their approach to it. Have you picked up on anything that, that even makes this possible that you've learned?

[Chris Mannix]

It's, it's definitely organizationally with, with Presti and with Dagnault. And the messaging is always crystal clear, like, this is who we are. You know, this is kind of the role that you're probably going to have. And they rarely deviate from that. I mean, Alex Caruso is a great example. Like, he comes in, in that deal with Chicago and you know, look, he's playing a different role than he played with the Bulls, you know, at times playing a lesser role there. But, but he, you're not hearing complaints from Alex Caruso being there. He just signed a long term contract extension with them. Like, they just, they're, they're very good at, at the messaging part of all this, of, of letting these guys know, like, this is what we, this is what we're about. This is what we're. The role that I want to see you play in. And they don't deviate from that at all. And look, I think they benefit to a degree from the fact that these guys are all really young. They're just getting into the NBA for, you know, some of these younger guys, guys are two or three years in, and it's like, we just want to do the right thing. We want to play here. Now that's going to change as they get a little bit older. They want to get contracts and they get contracts, they want to play bigger roles, they want to make All Star, all NBA, all that stuff. But for right now, it really is the perfect storm of rotation players that are either veterans that get it, and I would put Isaiah Hartenstein in that mix, I put Alex Caruso in that mix, and a bunch of young guys in their second or third years that are eager to just play a role on a winning team.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because even if I want to do this on the contender part of it now, the list of teams that could hold up the trophy, where you go, well, that's a little surprising. Like, I think is an example. Like Houston would still be a little surprising if they won the NBA championship this summer. Okay. As much as I enjoy watching them sort of like an auto go to last Night Light Night, but it's like, okay, I want to watch them against the Hawks because I just have that much fun watching the Rockets play. I know what I would point to is like, it might be a little bit concerning even with Oklahoma City. I think there's some times Offensively and maybe it's just Jalen Williams being ready this year for the playoffs and going like, all right, I've got one at my belt and now I know what's asked of me and he's just going to respond and be even better. But maybe like, I'm not saying Jordan Clarkson, but somebody like that, it can kind of come in at his best and be like, hey, can you create a little offense on your own here if things bog down a little bit? And again, maybe Chet ends up being that guy which you know, based on his profile, he very well could be that third guy that's getting gets a little bit more into his own shot creation than what we saw in his first action. How long is the list for you now? Because I feel like the list was longer of potential NBA champs this summer and maybe that's because of Minnesota, maybe it's because of Dallas's health here a little bit. But if I'm just sharing mine with you, I have okc. I'd have Denver in the non surprise list. I'd put Cleveland in that list. And Boston still deserves the benefit of the doubt. And feel free to go in any Celtics direction you want to in your own backyard after watching, well, your previous backyard. But after watching what's been pretty average basketball the last month.

[Chris Mannix]

Average basketball though they would they go three and one on that road trip. Like yeah, they got tattooed by, by the Lakers, but they were forced to double overtime or overtime rather by the Clippers. But they still managed to come out with, with a lot of wins in this game just to briefly detour to the Celtics. I, I have zero.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I want this detour by the way.

[Chris Mannix]

Okay, but zero to me. I don't know where you stand on this, but zero concern about what's happening right now. Like I've, I went around them a little bit. I was around them on this west coast trip. There's a lot of going through the motions right now. Like a lot of like, all right, it took us six years to win a championship. Like the slog was real, the fight was real. Now here we are playing the Pelicans in the end of December and you know, going on the road to play a beat up Clippers team in front of a small crowd and into a dome. Like I don't think to me this is the, the perfect example of a championship hangover. A team going through what they're going through when they, when they get to past the trade deadline into March. I promise you we'll be back here talking about the Celtics winning 10 of 11 and. Or 11 of 13 or whatever number it may be, they're just going to flip a switch. I just believe that given this group, they're, they're on a tier. I put Cleveland on that tier too. You know, they're better with Kenny Atkinson and the offensive changes he's made to that team. I, I still have the same playoff concerns though about the Cavaliers, some of which have been exposed over the last week or so. Like the, the defensive issues with their backcourt, the fact they play two bigs extensively that aren't three point shooting threats like you give a, A good team with a good coaching staff, one team to focus on and they're going to find ways to exploit some of that. So I do, I do think Boston, even though they're behind the Cavs in the standings, I'd still put them above Cleveland in that, that tier of, of of championship contenders.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, the Cleveland two big thing. I've been on it now for a while. I wonder how that'll play out against like say the Celtics. Trying to space them out or ignore some of their spacing stuff. But I put them in the non surprise list, which is an improvement from what I thought about him this summer because there is so much that I like about him and I do think they're deep. I do think they have like a lot of different things they can think throw at you even if that fifth player hasn't really been perfect. And I think, you know, essentially they would hope it would be Streuss closing those minutes. I would imagine the Celtics offense thing, you know, at times, but it was the same. Like there were times last year where I was like, well if they do this in the clutch in like a playoff game, like this could burn them. And then it ended up never mattering. And even when I was talking about their offense after the Lakers game, like I. Even if you'd sort it, if you sort it out like Boston's last 15, last 15, last 15. I think when I had done that they were still fifth in the NBA over the previous 15 games in offense. So it's like.

[Chris Mannix]

So I ran those numbers too. They're top 10 in defense too. Like, like even when they were going through that malaise where they were like, I don't know what they 10, 11 or they're just an average kind of team, they were still top 10 in everything. Net rating, defensive rating, offensive rating. So it wasn't like they had bottomed out into the bottom third. And we're looking at one glaring Weakness that needs to be shored up with like a Walker Kessler deal. Even though I would probably try to find a way to have someone but Luke Cornett playing some of those minutes. But there's nothing, there's nothing that you absolutely look at and say, oh my God, this is a problem that we have to fix before February.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I think they just need to shoot it a little bit better. But, you know, sometimes I'll look so closely at a game and I'll see these things that I don't like and then I'll run some of the numbers and go, you're really going to sit here and do 10 minutes on their offense when it's third in the NBA this month? I mean, it's 10th in the NBA the last 15 if I want to get like updated in particular about it. But their net rating is still third best. I think it's some of the clutch stuff. And I think when you look at like six of the eight regulars declining on their three point numbers from where they were at in their career, like, math just tells us that I don't think they're just going to continue to all shoot collectively that bad the rest of the season. So I think we're on the same page there. All right, do you add anyone else to that group of the four that.

[Chris Mannix]

I have, I'm with you on Houston. Even though, like after that Atlanta game, there's something like 28 and three after having a lead in the third quarter, like, that's not a great example since they blew a big lead, but like they're closing games. They're like seven and three in games decided by three points or less. Like they're, they're finding a way to finish. Even though we keep kind of saying, like, at least I keep saying that they don't have that, that one guy, the Durant, the Butler, the guy they can go to to get him a bucket in the fourth quarter, Somebody's coming up with it, whether it's Jalen Green or Al Prince. And Goon against Boston, it was Amin Thompson. I still think this is kind of the year where they'll get to the second round and somebody with more experience will take advantage of them. I'm still going to buy the, the, the, the path that a lot of teams have had to take. I don't know what to make of Memphis, because I went to the season thinking, like, all right, well, shooting is going to be their biggest problem. They're top 10, the NBA and three point shooting, like Jalen Wells has been Outstanding. Like he's been a shooter for them. You know, Desmond Bain can shoot it. You know, Morant's not terrible. They've, they've just got. And they've been there before. A lot of these guys have been through the playoff ringer over the last couple of years. Like they to me are kind of the wild card and all this. Could they beat a Denver in the second round? Maybe. Could they beat Oklahoma City in the conference finals? Probably not. I wouldn't pick them to do it. But you know, they've, they've probably been deeper in the playoffs, the core of their team, more than Oklahoma City has. So the four teams you mentioned, absolutely, the, to me, the Grizzlies are the wild card in all this.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Grizzlies are the wild card. All right, real quick on the Houston thing though, because there's some numbers like. And maybe it's the plan tournament or the in season tournament. I should say not the playing tournament, the in season tournament where in that Oklahoma City matchup where it looked like they just couldn't do anything offensively against them in that game, they couldn't initiate any of their stuff. I think the smaller point guard thing with Van Vliet, despite like he holds up defensively, the deflections, you know, when you look back historically through Van Vliet, it's very simple to make the assumption be like, oh well, you're just gonna attack him and hunt him all the time. People look to attack Jalen Green before they do Van Vliet and when I look at some of the clutch closing stuff, it's crazy because they're, they're 17 and 9 in their 26 clutch games. That's more clutch wins than any other team in the NBA. Their net rating however is 14. Like if you look at the net rating of where they're at, it is a very slim margin and they're closing out these games and they're getting wins. And I mean there's, there's five teams with a double figure net rating in, in some of their clutch stuff and some of the teams are just so good that it doesn't really even matter. So I still, I look, I love them. We've already covered it. I'm still not sure like what I'm really banking on. Unless like Jalen Green had just an all time series, so you went with Memphis. I think Dallas has to be given the benefit of the doubt a bit here just because of when they're healthy. But it's just this has been a brutal stretch for them. Health wise.

[Chris Mannix]

I don't, I just don't know if they're going to get all their guys back like in time. Like these injuries just keep piling up and piling up and piling up and it, it's going to get to the point where if they get into the playoffs, it might be through the play in honestly with, with all these injuries. I, I, you're right, they, they deserve the benefit of the doubt because of where they've been. But I just, I mean when I talk to people down there, I mean it is, it's exhausting for them, like showing up to a practice, finding out who's going to be out for how long that, you know, the, the lively injury was a real kick in the teeth to that team. So I, I, I'm less optimistic about them just because I have no confidence that they're going to get all their guys back on the floor in time for the playoffs.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, so make the Memphis case then.

[Chris Mannix]

Just, I mean, I just thought they weren't going to be able to shoot it. I, I was really concerned. I mean I wrote all this in, in the preview issue like, like who's going to be the guy that steps up and make shots and nobody knew that Jalen Wells was going to be that guy early on. Nobody thought he was going to step in and play that type of role. I mean Desmond Bain obviously can, can make shots. Luke Canard is, is shooting well, obviously is on that team. So I, I, I think the fact that they are top 10 in the NBA in three point percentage makes them a player in all this because they've got a guy in job that can get him a bucket down the stretch. They've got depth at, at multiple positions. Like, you know, I, I just, they're, they're an outsider here, don't get me wrong. Like, I'm not, if I'm ranking the tiers there, it's Oklahoma City, it's Denver and I put Memphis at this point a decent amount behind the two of them. But if they get their act together and they shoot it in the playoffs the way they're shooting in the regular season, they're a threat, man. They're a real threat to do something.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I love seeing Gigi Jackson back out there, although, you know, I doubt he's closing playoff games for you, especially with Wells.

[Chris Mannix]

That would be a problem.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I, I'm still holding out for like prime jaw because we haven't gotten prime jaw yet this year. They're, they're hanging on standings wise and some of it's just the shot opportunity. He's not taking the same number of shots, which means the same number of free throw attempts. And look, the three point shooting for Jaw hasn't exactly been something like you're freaked out about and closing out against, but I'd imagine if he can put together just a nice stretch health wise here, and if it's timed at the right time like I'd expect to see a little bit more out of him. All right, so of the teams that we didn't bring up, I think it's New York is probably going like, what about us? So what about the Knicks?

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, I mean, they were close to being on my list there because they're a team that in addition to being built to win regular season games because they burn out a lot of guys, you don't need depth in the playoffs. We know that if you've got seven guys that you trust, you can go with it. And Tibbs does have seven guys that they trust. I do worry about front court defense. That to me is a question mark. Towns awesome offensively, but what does he look like defensively in the playoffs? Is he exploitable? He was great last year against Jokic in the, in the conference semifinals. Really bad against Dallas in the conference finals. Does that carry over?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Is.

[Chris Mannix]

Are teams able to exploit him in the postseason? Kind of the same, a little bit of the same feeling with, with Brunson. He's so good during the regular season, but let's, let's match them up with Boston, for example, like what happens in a playoff series if he's facing some continued combination of Drew Holiday, Derek White, Peyton Pritchard, how much did his efficiency numbers ultimately go down? So I think they're, they're, they're right there and maybe I should put them in that same category. I put Memphis because I put Memphis below Denver and Oklahoma City. I'd probably put the Knicks beneath Cleveland and Boston right now, but they're right there on that, that next tier of teams.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We haven't mentioned Minnesota yet, and that was a great win this past weekend against Denver and I do kind of enjoy that matchup. Although Nas against Jokic, and to your point too, like, none of us love Cat defensively, but at least with Jokic being in front of him, yeah, he can make him work. It's not like all of a sudden you're going to look at the box score and be like, man, he shut down Jokic. It's just that's not a possibility. But knowing where everything is kind of going and then having Rudy play off of Aaron Gordon on that baseline stuff and then allowing him to float a little bit more there. We're giving Denver the benefit of the doubt because they have the best player in the world and we've already seen them do it and they've been playing really good. The defense has been good in this turnaround. Although specific to Minnesota, I think the ant matchup for them, if they were to land somehow in the playoffs against each other, like, there's just not a great ant matchup for them. I guess in theory it's supposed to be Watson, they went with Christian Brown. It's just, it's a bad matchup for having to deal with ants, physicality and athleticism. But I hate saying this about Minnesota. I don't. I don't even think about them as a title contender.

[Chris Mannix]

I don't either. I don't either. It was, look, it was a bad deal at the time. It was a bad deal a few weeks ago, and it was a bad deal now. Like, they haven't gotten all the talk about depth. Didn't improve it in three point shooting with DiVincenzo. It hasn't happened. Now, DiVincenzo's not a bad three point shooter, but he's what, like three and a half points down from what he was last season with the Knicks. You know, Randall's. Randall, right. He's an inefficient scorer. He's not a great defensive player. Like they, they made a bad deal, they made a financial deal. It's as simple as that. And because of that, they're now, they just dropped down a tier. And it's maddening to me. Like, I get there are financial decisions that have to be made with teams, but how do you make a financial decision with a team coming off a trip to the conference finals? Like a team that had made that leap to that next level. Don't you give them one more chance to make that leap. Now, I don't want to go back down the rabbit hole. I get it. But like, they're not a. A right now. They're not to me on anywhere close to the level of the teams we've already talked about.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They're not. And you know, I've not been a cat fan. And so then when the team with a really smart front office trades him after making the Western Conference finals, like, I feel like, hey, I don't need to make this argument anymore. If they did it, then why do I need to argue my position? But you're right, it hasn't worked out Brian.

[Chris Mannix]

Does Tim Conley do that deal? Like if, if all things are equal, if there's not financial pressure? I don't think so. I don't think he does that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No. But this is the Rudy part of it, you know, that Minnesota fans never wanted to hear. When you're like, hey, okay, so you're bringing in Rudy, which at his best I understand it, but he, he's the single worst, like heavy rotation guy with the ball, like as far as like skills of catching and handling it and all these things. And it, it's been kind of funny like watching Dillingham not know yet where it's like you actually, have you noticed all the other guys that dribble, they're not going to make him that pass dude. And I think you've seen Finch kind of pull the plug on Rudy in some of these closer fourth quarter and look, he was terrific against Denver. I'd also say that defensively I've never seen teams attack Rudy Rudy with, with like less fear than I've seen this year. And it's not to say he's still not good defensively. The guy plays his ass off. He sets a million screens. I mean he really did. Like there's just guys that his size never chase down loose ball. So like I'm trying to be nice about this a little bit but like the Rudy transaction with his flaws, even with last year's run of like, is it worth it? Is it not worth it? That wasn't an every month answer. It was like the big picture of it all. And you know, it makes it me sound like a hypocrite if I haven't like Cat and I was fine with the trade. But then it's like, yeah, but when you did this and the financial concerns like you had to realize like something like this might happen, it. It dings the Rudy deal on top of everything else. And it's going to be like a weird reset with that team because they're going to have to reset this on the fly with Ant.

[Chris Mannix]

And I don't like the Denver game like you said was great but. And I don't know what the numbers are against some of these other top tier teams offhand, but like I look at a matchup between Minnesota and Oklahoma City and I don't know how they match up defensively with the Thunder. Same thing. Even with like a team like Memphis that can play a little bit smaller when they have to Houston, which is just scrappy with like a bunch of wing guys and Sengun who's a monster on the perimeter. Like these are just tough matchups for, for Minnesota in the playoffs and like it, you know, not again, not the cat was a great defender last year, but I would have much more confidence subbing Rudy out and going with the Kat Nas Reed front court than I do right now with a Nazaree Julius Randle front court. I think that's, that's a looming issue in the playoffs.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I hope they can turn it around.

[Chris Mannix]

To at least that which is fun to watch.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. At least be part of like a, just hey, if this and you know, maybe this or whatever. But like, you know, the Conley stretches for this year and I know he's played better but you know, I, I think that Jaden McDaniels off ball cutting at times is like, okay, you know, this is, this is a little bit better even.

[Chris Mannix]

He's been really good last couple of weeks.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Even if there's just too many games too where he's just glued in the corner and you know, like, man, that's a lot of money for a defensive role player. But yeah, I mean we're, we're coming up on February here and I don't know how anybody could push back on just being underwhelmed by Timberwolves, unfortunately.

[Chris Mannix]

Let me ask one more question because it's reflexively to talk about the Lakers, but I've just, I watched every game they played this recent homestand. I don't know, I don't know what to make of them right now. Like the Philadelphia game kind of blew up in their faces when AD Went out. I'll kind of put that on a shelf right there. But during this, this stretch where they won six of the last seven, they had a top five defense. Now I don't think they're a top five defensive team, don't get me wrong. But this is one of those things where the numbers you have to look at and say how much of this is sustainable. Their offensive numbers were kind of right around what they've been all season long. They were 11th in offensive rating during that seven game stretch. The 13th overall defense though, they went from 22 to 5. Like, how much of this are we buying into right now with the Lakers? Like, are we, I don't consider them a championship team, but are we now looking at them as saying, all right, they get into a first round, maybe it's against Denver or somebody else, they can win a series. Like, are we have, have we bumped the Lakers up a tier at all the last couple of weeks?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Weeks, I'm glad you, you brought this up because I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna bring him up because I just don't think, you know, there's certainly none of the non surprise list here. And I even said, because I went to the Lakers Celtics game and it was really impressive from the Lakers, I thought they played their asses off. I thought they were smart with their approach. They were really physical and, you know, they were just dominant wire to wire in that game. And when you watch the rotation, I think you would agree too. Like, you'll go, hey, there's a lot of guys that I kind of like in this. And if AD is rolling, I think the LeBron defensive stuff would likely just be better. There would just be more effort in the playoffs than what we've seen for long stretches during the regular season. But first round against Denver, I don't.

[Chris Mannix]

Know that if it was somebody else, like, if you said first round against Memphis, I'd probably give them a shot, you know, because they are, they do have this star power and they are playing better defensively.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know, would you pick him against Houston? I don't know.

[Chris Mannix]

There's experience coming to play in a situation like that. Fourth quarters, if they can keep it close, can they, can LeBron and AD take over down the stretch? And they're, to me, they're one of the biggest teams to watch in the next couple of weeks. They do have some, some movable contracts that do have some draft capital deal. We saw AD make the most public plea possible to get a big man alongside him. Like, how aggressive does Rob Palenque get at this point? Like the bet, like, the better his team plays. And we'll say, I don't know what the injury is to AD and how, how serious that is coming off the Philly game. But, like, the better this team plays, the more pressures on that front office to do something, to give them something that makes them better. I wouldn't listen to the players because the last time you did that, you got Russell Westbrook up there and kind of blew up everything around you. But if you think that, you know, Walker Kessler makes a difference, Jonas Valencunas makes a difference, even Vucevich makes a difference. I'm dying to know what they do for the deadline because the more they win, the more pressure, you know, comes up on Rob Pelinka and his team.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I do like them more now than I ever have probably this season. And it's not like all of a sudden like, hey, the road. But I think in D'Angelo Russell out of there just is a massive plus for so many of the different things that you want to do. And once that happened it's like, okay, so they've got Finney Smith Vanderbilt's back, which I know people have been waiting on for a long time. But I did the same exact exercise. Like I made myself go like, would you pick him against this team? Would you pick him against this team? Would you pick him against the Clippers?

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, I probably picked but we don't.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do we even know. I thought Kawhi looked the Kawaii the first fourth quarter he's played all season since he's been out. And I know the hey I'm excited about Kawhi thing is usually put to your excitement is very, it's a very.

[Chris Mannix]

Charlie Brown Lucy kind of example there. Like I can't. We're get ready. The playoffs are coming.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He looked good. I thought he looked good last.

[Chris Mannix]

He did look great. He looked great. I just can't. You gotta, you gotta have the calendar turned to April for me to like really start to get invested in Kawhi. I don't know, like I, I don't look people in la, some of them think like getting Jared Vanderbilt back is like getting primed to Kembe Mutombo back in the lineup. I think he's going to make this incredible difference defensively. But I think Dorian Finney Smith has made an impact on that team. He's, he's not this, he's not the guy he was three years ago, but he's still pretty solid and can still defend a few positions if they can make a, even a small move, you know, for, for another big. Because like I, I, I disagree with the premise of AD. Right. Like the 2020 was like a lifetime ago.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Chris Mannix]

It was almost an entirely different NBA back then. You, you even, you brought that version of Dwight Howard and that version of Jabale McGee. I don't think they're going to make a huge impact on that Laker team. I do agree with the idea that they need somebody better than Christian Coloco or Jackson Hayes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Jackson Hayes.

[Chris Mannix]

I mean, or inevitably Christian Wood or somebody like you need somebody better than one of those guys playing the non AD minutes. That's why I think the Lakers get in some trouble. I don't think there should be a center playing five next AD for 30 minutes a game like there was, you know, five years ago. But getting somebody like that, that can usurp some of those minutes, take some of the physical load off him for five or six minutes per game. That's the. That's an idea. I can get behind with the Lakers.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know if that's Valance units at this point defensively, but I almost felt like Washington signed him to be like, let's see what we can trade them for.

[Chris Mannix]

Probably. It's an easy contract, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Just out there. Let's just sign him and then we'll flip him before February. But yeah, I like. I guess that's it. That's my headline. I like them more now than I have before. I still have a hard time figuring out how many teams I pick them against.

[Chris Mannix]

What's. What's the level? I can't figure out the level of this team. It's defensively, specifically. Like, they've been awful for most of the season defensively, but this recent stretch, they've been really good. Now the schedule has stunk. We got to be honest about that. Like, the teams, they're beating, the Washingtons, they go to Charlotte and win. Like, they're putting up great defensive numbers against really bad offensive teams. But what's the level here? Like, are they. When they get all their guys back, are they top 15 at the upper half of the NBA defensively, can they be that good? Because if they can be in the upper half of the league defensively, they could find a way to win a series here and then it could get really interesting with those two guys.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And I'm making a huge assumption that LeBron's going to be more invested in it defensively in the playoffs. I just have to imagine that he. He'll know he can't play the way he's played for such long stretches here defensively, and that adds to it. But at least now, like, the best spacing lineup that they had was the worst defensive lineup. And now with Finney, Smith and Vanderbilt back in the mix, I think they can mix and match it a little bit better. But you can't take Reeves off the floor and you know that he's going to get hunted. And hell, I mean, he's, he's like running a ton of their offense here, but he'd be probably off ball a little bit more in the playoffs. LeBron beyond the ball a little bit more in the playoffs. And then you have two new options that you didn't have there defensively. Just hold up on the perimeter where there were just times, man, even when you liked the names of the closing five, you're like, this is just, this is open season on these guys with the combinations that they had to pick from. All right, man, that was awesome. Thanks for doing this. Anything to promote on the way out?

[Chris Mannix]

Nope. You can check out the new magazine that's coming out in a couple of weeks. A cover that I think you're really going to like. Ryan, I can't reveal it yet, but a cover that you're really going to be into. And of course, Dazone, we ramp it back up with all these shows starting this weekend as well.

[Ryan Rosillo]

John L. Sullivan.

[Chris Mannix]

No John L. Sullivan cover. No, no, no retrospectives. A current cover athlete.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I enjoyed his biography. I would recommend it to any boxing historians out there.

[Chris Mannix]

Boxing was fun back in the day, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, the guy, he fell off a train once and was like, that's it. Done. Done drinking. Although I don't know if it was that incident in particular. It might have been that one should be if that.

[Chris Mannix]

If it wasn't, it should be.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If anybody was gonna go out that night after falling off a train, it would have been John L. Sullivan. But once he was done, no, once he was done, he was like, I'm out. And man of his word. All right, thank you so much, man. Appreciate it. You got it. This episode is brought to you by Pepsid Complete. All right, let's talk game day essentials. How do I spend game day? Well, we already know that. Get out of the house, get the blood flowing, try to get some activities going. But, man, I had some wings the other night. My brother ordered them. Table wings. It was awesome. And it was also a little reminder. You're getting a little bit older. But there's one guest that isn't welcome on game day and that's heartburn. Because I remember thinking it was made up. I was like, who gets it? What is it? Do you get dumped and you get it? Nope, you just start to get it, man. I don't know what to tell you. And if you can't fix it, you're in for a tough time. Tough afternoon, maybe even into the night. Thankfully, Pepcid Complete starts to work instantly and lasts all day. Just one great tasting chewable tablet provides dual action heartburn relief with an antacid that starts working instantly and an acid reducer that lasts all day so I can stay focused on the game. Visit pepcid.com to shop now all day based on 8 hour symptom relief studies during the day. Use product only as directed. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Business. It's no secret that we could all use a little more time in our lives. Thankfully, Amazon Business Offers smart business buying solutions so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing the admin. I can see why they call it smart. Visit business.Amazon.com to learn more. You want details?

[Chris Mannix]

Buy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

[Chris Mannix]

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the south fork.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I have every toy you can possibly imagine.

[Chris Mannix]

And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Let me tell you what's required. The email address is liveadvice rrmail.com We've got Kyle Morgan immediately. Just checks out. I don't know if I like that. I think you've.

[Kyle]

We're playing down a mate.

[Chris Mannix]

Dude.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We.

[Kyle]

We kind of need.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, Seren's gone. He was texting me about the show yesterday and I sent him a longer form, thought about the show and kind of where I've been at lately and he didn't respond. And then I realized, like, you know what, we give him a break. Some of my theories, philosophies on things because I was not going to call or text him this entire time he's away, which is tough for me because as you know, he's my muse. But when I sent him the follow up to his really complimentary thing that he had had to say, I was like, okay, wait, don't. Today's not the day. The week is not the week. Let the kid breathe. Let him breathe a little bit. But worgon, I'll admit, like, we'll just go behind the curtain here. You've been in the mix now for a little while. I had no idea. If I trusted you enough and not only do I trust you now, I look forward to you in any form.

[Worgon]

Yeah, high praise. Thanks, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That we can get. Yeah.

[Worgon]

Happy to be here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay. Yeah, you know, I don't know if you're like always going to be in the rotation, but God damn if you don't deliver. So we'll just keep the camera up. That's what we want to do here. All right. Okay.

[Kyle]

New season loading. Let's go.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, here we go. The Carlton draft thing. It's pronounced, I guess draft from the Australian kid with no game. It's spelt a little bit differently. I will admit I have this weird draft draw, hang up thing because of the Waterloo, Iowa crew. Shout out to Waterloo. There was always this draw thing that I would hear and so then I kind of carried that over. Probably would not have happened, but without my Waterloo experience, I'd not be the man I AM today, so I'm happy to make that mistake. This is where Kyle and Wargon are like, well how is he doing this today? Okay, let's talk Poughkeepsie. Here we go. These always make it to the top of the queue. Hi gang. Especially fellow Mid Hudson Valliere. Kyle. 34, 5 9, 180. No gym stats as I use machines since I've had a number of injuries. Only basketball comp I have as my old soccer buddies from college used to call me. Corey Badporn Maggetty. Okay, we were all huge Grantland fans as I could only drive the ball. Here's a quick one for you. I moved back to America after living in Europe for 10 years on accident as I came back for a month. Thanks Chechya Vacation loss what? To visit my parents. Then Covid happened and my flight back to Europe was canceled. I ended up finding a job in the Crown jewel itself Poughkeepsie, doing my normal IT work. The job itself was actually not bad because finding IT work in the Hudson Valley is quite difficult. However, I immediately could tell the woman female who hired me didn't like me and her buddies at work who she conversed with the most would actively avoid me. I had a peer at my company who I could trust enough to ask why it seemed like they didn't like me. It was shocking for me as I get along with everyone. I've never had any bad job reviews or bad blood with co workers in my life. He told me straight up it was because I was from Red Hook, a small town 25 minutes north of Poughkeepsie. He said they called me a city. It's a play on the word city and idiot meaning I was a transplant from New York City. Here's the thing. I've never lived in New York City. I grew up in Red Hook, graduated high school there. My parents at the time still lived there. My coworker then wanted to tell me he also thought I'd be annoying since I'm from since I'm from Red Hook and that means I'm just a New York City transplant. I'd never heard of the stereotype of my life, especially since I didn't know a single kid in high school from New York City living there. And if anything, people from Poughkeepsie and South have a very heavy cultural influence from New York City, which my town did not. So Kyle, do people from Poughkeepsie really have these stereotypes of us or was this company just full of odd people? Are we as Americans not supposed to move and live in the same place our whole lives, I can't imagine hating someone solely because of where they are from. Do people in California or Connecticut care about this? As someone from a small town, I can't imagine being forced to never move. Attached proof of job in Poughkeepsie. He. He sent us. He sent us his parking permit.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, this is a local. This is a very localized one. But we. We like to do this for our guy, Kyle. So.

[Kyle]

Yeah, so, I mean, it's within the county. Do they think you're from, like, the Red Hook downstate? Maybe. I don't know.

[Chris Mannix]

Maybe.

[Kyle]

You got to clear that up. But, I mean, I grew up. I mean, here. I'll never live on the other side of the river, I can tell you that. But red hooks on my side.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What's the other side of the river? What are some of those?

[Kyle]

It's like Highland Kingston. Like, I don't know. They're just. My dad always called them hillbillies as a joke, and I just stuck with me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just.

[Kyle]

I took it seriously. So I'm not. I'm not the other side of the river guy. I'm on the. I'm on the right side of the river. And when I eventually move back, it will be on the correct side of the river, but Red Hook's on my side. So I don't know. I've never heard anything weird about Red Hook. I don't know. I've heard, like, Rhinebeck is, like, a. Like a nice place. People are like, oh, those people are rich over there. I don't know if anybody's, like, totally rich up there, but that's not true.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Rhinebeck's pretty nice, but.

[Kyle]

Yeah, this is. This is strange. I'm wondering if maybe they're thinking you're from the other Red Hook, which is, like, down downstate. Maybe that's what that is. But, yeah, I don't. You're on the correct side of the river, so I don't know what's going on.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Wargon, you live in the city. Do you have anything to offer here that's remotely connected to this?

[Worgon]

Absolutely nothing. I've been up to, like, New Palt area, but that's. That's not what we're really talking about. Right, Kyle?

[Kyle]

No, definitely not what we're talking about.

[Worgon]

Yeah, I got. I got nothing here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay. Did you just tell us, are there two red hooks?

[Kyle]

Yeah, I think there's a Red Hook, like, near the city, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't.

[Kyle]

I think there's Like. Like a downstate Red Hook. Like, I think that's the more famous one. I mean, Red Hook's like a small town north of Poughkeepsie. So I don't really know what. What this is all about.

[Ryan Rosillo]

A duchess. A village in Dutchess County. Yeah.

[Kyle]

Yeah, that's. We're Dutchess county cats. So this should all be one. One group.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I'm confused. And then you're talking about Red Hook, New York City, being something entirely.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I think there's, like, a neighborhood area down there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

I'm like, maybe they think you're from the wrong Red Hook. I don't know.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But.

[Kyle]

Yeah, this doesn't. This doesn't.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Red Hook is. Is Brooklyn.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This doesn't make. Unless that's what they. All right, so now I. I was having a hard time following you, but I see what you're saying. Did they think that, like, you were from Brooklyn and that's why they did all these things? I don't. I don't really have a lot to offer other than maybe just a wider perspective on this, I think. Hating other towns. Shouldn't that kind of go away after high school? Yeah.

[Kyle]

When you play your last snap, usually it starts to diminish, and then you got, like, five years, and then you got to get over it, I think.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know. Like, I hated Nantucket because I was just supposed to hate Nantucket. And we even got. I think, my college years, there was a brawl at an after party once. It wasn't like anybody really got hurt. It was just a stupid thing. And then I went to Nantucket later on. I was like, this place is awesome. Imagine being in your 30s, walking down the street, headed to the bookstore, and you see some guy with his whale shirt on, and you're like, dick. You know? And I don't mean the whale shirt, which is ironically. In the Vineyard Vines thing, which I think local vineyard people were like, why is the whale thing that's so much more associated with Nantucket on a shirt that has the vineyard name on it. But you know what? I don't know that a lot of people even care about those politics, so we'll. I just.

[Kyle]

I don't like the vineyard Vines. I've been vocal about. I don't like Vineyard Vines for some reason. I don't know what it is. I just. Not a fan.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't think it's the right fit for you. I think there's a lot of people that appreciate the colors, the options. Yeah.

[Kyle]

I think I'VE just met a lot of people out and about in a vineyard, vines. I'm like, yeah, you're not somebody I'd be around. Like, just your behavior. And I think it's just been purely where I was and who was there, but a lot of douchebags and vineyard vines. Not saying all.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So that's what. That's what you're saying? It's a red flag shirt for you?

[Kyle]

Yeah, I think so. In certain settings.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Hmm. Okay. I don't think that's. I'm not shocked by that. I'm not shocked by that at all. But, yeah, like, the other towns, like, what's your. Do you have a rival town? Oregon. Where are you from? What's your hometown?

[Worgon]

I'm from Roxbury, so we didn't. We didn't with Randolph, New Jersey.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That makes sense.

[Worgon]

Right next door.

[Kyle]

Yeah, that was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Were they the richer town or the poorer town?

[Worgon]

They were a little more wealthy. Everything was a little nicer in Randolph. They were in Mendham. Mendham had had money.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do the Richard towns get a bad rap throughout American history from the poor town? It feels like a lot of. Yeah, it sounds like a lot of times, like, when they think back, be like, oh, the Richie Riches, you know, like, I didn't like those guys. You know what I think the goal should be? Live in the rich town and have everybody be pissed at you. Yeah.

[Worgon]

I just know I was on the golf team in high school, and we played Mendham in golf, and it was at their country club in Mendham, and their team was allowed to use the driving range, and we were not allowed to use the driving range.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There you go.

[Kyle]

Don't know what to do with nice stuff. They couldn't let you out.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Can't trust these public school kids.

[Worgon]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, yeah, that one was a little. You know, it's a global audience, but.

[Kyle]

Maybe ask them if they want to go to the Dutchess County Fair. Let them know you're a Dutchess county guy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Maybe.

[Kyle]

Like, are you guys excited for this?

[Ryan Rosillo]

He doesn't work there anymore. The German people. He said he didn't care, but I think that is weird. I think you should feel like you were right and that they were weird, that immediately they put up these boundaries, these walls around you. And now Red Hook, by the way.

[Kyle]

Red Hook's a village. I mean, they don't even have town status anyway.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I mean, we're talking real low population numbers as I'm doing some research here on the side, but I don't Know how much who's in charge of that place? Okay, here's one about a wife getting breast implants. 41 years old, 6 foot, 185, live in the northeast, work in finance. No basketball comp. However, the Sorenex squattober program in November he did this. Set a new squat personal record of 335. Up for my prior PR of a year ago. 315. Ryan, you should give this a go next year. Since you mentioned you recently squatted for the first time in a while and disappointed in your numbers. It wasn't even just that like if you don't do that movement in the natural squad stuff. But again, kind of regret going after it and likely shrinking a little bit during COVID But hey, you know, wasn't a lot going on. So it's a month long volume based program that I've ran the past four. November's great success. All right. I don't know that I'm ever going to get back to like just going hardcore heavy, heavy squats again. But anyway, I appreciate your guidance and suggestion. I also drive a sick GMC Sierra Pick attach. Now Kyle and Priscilla will appreciate. I recall Steve saying on a prior pod that trucks are unnecessary. Probably one of the lowest approval rating moments for Cerruti. On the pod, big time ever. Biggest. Just I think pilots.

[Kyle]

He pissed off a couple pilots, but yeah, more people with trucks than planes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Can you imagine big arm Ceruti now after his baby's birth, not having a truck. Maybe now that his arms are bigger he'll. He'll like that window down. I used to like driving around my shirt off in the truck because that was just a showstopper. Not that I looked good, but it was just like that guy doesn't give because I mean back in the day, this is great. Couple dudes fresh off a shift.

[Kyle]

Stick into the seat.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

As you get out.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Dire Straits.

[Kyle]

Keep a towel in there like you're getting off a weight bench or something. Just towel it off.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Just. Hey, would we put shirts on? Of course not. All right. I could tell you having two boys playing sports and constant depot trips, it's an absolute lifesaver. Hauling stuff around and never needing to ask to borrow a buddy's truck. Like I'm in the market for one. I really am. I miss having him. It's been a long time. I think it's time to go back to it. I just don't think I can fit it. My current parking situation I saw Dually the other day I think was diesel. Sounded awesome. Pulled up right next to it. And then, of course, living in la, I was like, where does he park that ever? And he probably doesn't park it anywhere in la. He probably doesn't live in. I think he. I think he had some kind of generator in the back of it on top of everything else. I was like, God, look at all that equipment. Anyway, I've been married 13 years, have two kids, absolute best partner, friend I could dream of. We put the work in and have what I consider as close to a perfect marriage as you can have. I'm truly blessed. As the product of multiple divorces, I have always dreamed of having the relationship I have now. The best relationship advice I've ever received was prior to my marriage from my mom. She said to watch what you tell others because if you share 10 positive stories and one negative, that negative story will be the only that they remember using this approach. I always keep my conversations about my marriage with my friends positive and am thoughtful about what I share. This approach has served us well. Wow. How about that, guys? Kyle, newly married, Oregon. You writing that one down?

[Worgon]

Yeah, man, that's a good one. I feel like I've heard that.

[Chris Mannix]

Do you think you'd be able.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I feel like we put Kyle in a tough spot to follow that kind of advice. Just because of the rabbit content alone.

[Kyle]

Yeah. I mean, I think. I think she's shameless about the rabbits. You know, it's fine. She's like, yeah, worth it. So that's fine.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's really.

[Worgon]

Rabbits are what they are.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kyle]

Those are the only points of criticism.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I usually offer, but. No, but I think that's. That's some heavy stuff. You know, that's some. If you were to say to yourself, I am going to, no matter what, in all those tough times, because they're going to happen. I am going to be positive about my wife every time somebody asks about it. I think that'd be really hard to do. It would be because you could even talk about potentially the value of like, venting to that one good friend about those disruptive times. Should we say, or.

[Kyle]

You're being nice. He's saying some stuff that he's going through and you're like, yeah, I hear you, dude. Here's one thing about me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right? Yeah, right, right. Yeah. You want to have a little bitch fest? Another round. Now to the question. I have a strong group of eight or so core guys who I've been tight with 25, 30 years. We all text all day, live a few minutes away from each other. The wives are also friends, but not at the same level the guys are. As having kids can do my wife some changes to her body. She decided to get breast implants and the surgery is planned in the next few months. She's planning on staying proportional. However, I'm assuming it will be noticeable to our friends. We belong to a lake in the summer and a few of them will be seeing her in a bikini. I don't like the idea of just sending out a text announcing it. I don't like that idea either. Ever.

[Kyle]

No paper.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. You know, it's not like this is an RSVP here. Hey, you're saved the day. Coming up, we're going to be at the lake house June 28, right after the draft. I don't know. I think the draft will be right around that. He'll probably not be worrying about the draft. I don't like the idea of sending out the text anyway. However, I'd prefer if as word trickles out, people aren't talking behind my back. Not sure of the best approach, but this feels a little bit like oversharing on my part. My wife will be gradually telling the other wives as it gets closer. I'm sure some of the husbands will find out that way. I realize I'm most likely being oversensitive to this, given these are essentially lifelong friends at this point. However, I have an aversion to sharing intimate details of my marriage. I should add that my wife is also pretty private. Considers this something is really nobody's business. Curious how the gang would handle this. Look, immediate reaction. I think you're overthinking this. I think that you did a great job of laying, like, the foundation of how you look at your relationship with your wife and what you want to share and how supportive you want to be. And back to the positive thing that we're commending you on here, because I think that's really hard to do and most people couldn't do it. And the fact that you've stayed with this approach and that it leads to a really healthy relationship, these are all incredible things. But then I think it can get to the point where it's like you're almost overdoing it here to figure out the best way to tell your core group of guys that you've known 25, 30 years about breast implants. Like, who gives a shit? So many people are doing this now. It doesn't matter. So you don't want to announce it to Everybody. Okay. But you don't want everybody talking about. People are going to say something about it. They're just going to. And you know what's.

[Kyle]

Come on.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's a bit. It's a. It's a bit like the hometown thing that we just talked about of, like, do you want to be in the poor town or the rich town? You know, so, like, if Doug is texting Steve, hey, did. Did Dale get an upgrade? Did Dale's wife do a little remodeling? You know that's going to happen. And I understand, like, you'd rather it didn't. Yeah, we'd all. We'd all like a lot of things to not be said about us behind our backs, but that's the reality. And this isn't a bad thing. You're in the nice part of town now, so two car garage. Yeah. Right. I'm just telling you, like, I would allow the flow of this to flow and however it's going to flow and not worry about it. If these truly are your best friends, the only thing will be like, wow, you know, did you see that? You know, maybe there'll be a wife in the group that's like, oh, I can't believe. Believe she did that. You know, which is always like, what do you care? You know, you jealous or you're against it? Okay, fine. Like, I get it. But my gut reaction to this is because you have been so good about that dynamic of relationship and protective of. Of, like, the sharing part of this, that you're like, kind of cost trying to apply those same principles to what is something that's largely irrelevant to the friend dynamic. So I wouldn't. I don't think there is some. Hey, this is the perfect way to do this. It's just gonna go to the lake. People are gonna notice. Something will be said with you not knowing it, and you're gonna be okay. Yeah.

[Kyle]

Maybe just get your w eyebrows raised. Ready? You know that viral thing that's been going around from the inauguration, where W is just like. Or what? I can't even do the face. But maybe that's just.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think it sounded good when you did it.

[Kyle]

I would save this for the. For the lake. I think that's the reveal. It will be talked about by everyone, probably. Like, I was just thinking this was like, I didn't have a friend whose mom had boob implants when I was a young boy. She said you had two boys. Like, it would have been addressed if all of a sudden my buddy Tyler's mom just came in looking to. It just would have been a. It'll be talked about no matter what. And I just think. I think I just wait. Let everyone find out in their own time. This is. I think it would be weird. Like, I can't even imagine how you would frame. Frame it. Like, it would just. It would be more awkward than you're already prepared for it to be. If you tried to try to, like, give somebody a little prep work, I think, yeah.

[Worgon]

I mean, people are definitely gonna be talking about this behind your back, but not, like, in, like, a. A negative way. I think it's just something people talk about. And, like, if you're close with these guys, like, maybe they'll talk about it with you too. I don't.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's got to be a wife. There's going to be a wife that doesn't like it. All right, yeah.

[Worgon]

Yeah, sure.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I could draw a picture of her right now, by the way. But, like, if your goal in life is to never have anybody ever say anything, like, negative about. You, just do.

[Kyle]

You're not around everyone else.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, yeah, just do worse than everyone.

[Kyle]

Else in all aspects.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But I understand, like, this is all coming from a really good place, but I think your effort here should be more focused on, like, not trying to avoid something that is unavoidable and, you know, like, you ever want to play that game. You're like, I wonder what they said about me when I left. You know, you just drive yourself crazy. Yeah.

[Kyle]

It doesn't sound like he has the one guy who's like, the guy that doesn't have a wife and brought his own six pack and will be, you know, not three sheets to the wind, but maybe a bit of a wild card once it's time for everyone to get in the lake. And it doesn't even sound like he's worried about, like, Tommy being like, whoa.

[Worgon]

It's like cat calling.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle]

Not cat calling, but just like, maybe, you know, just not being as subtle as everyone else is going to be. So it doesn't even sound like you have that problem, because then. Then I would be like, all right, maybe we have to. You know, I don't want her to be. It sounds like this guy's like, John, sacrimony level. Cares about his wife, always says nice things about her. Doesn't want her to ever feel uncomfortable. No jokes will be made.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The goddamn Taylor Meals, you get the.

[Kyle]

Fucker for a million. That was a good one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Whoa.

[Kyle]

That was. I think that was his best line of the show.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay. All right. No, I Just you. You cranked it up a notch on the quote. That's all spread around the infield here right now. Anything, you guys? I don't know. I mean, if you were presented with this from your significant other.

[Kyle]

In, out, presented with maybe doing it. Yeah, I think. I mean, almost all answers are like, that sounds great. You look great. This is great. I don't know if the. If the money's right, you got to.

[Worgon]

Go hands off here.

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah, yeah, if the money's right.

[Kyle]

Yeah. I mean, if we're talking about. We'll just.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Interesting way of phrasing it.

[Kyle]

If it's like, all right, well, I guess we'll keep our cars for a while because we got to do this. Maybe it would be like I would take a financial way, you know, be like, you know, I've been really thinking about getting rid of this Mustang, and if I have to keep driving seven more years because of this, maybe not, but if the money's right. Yeah, I think you just.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, yeah. That's that fair. I don't know, man. I don't. I don't know if I'm ready to do this with Worgon. So I've just. I think your quote was good enough. We'll just keep moving. We'll just keep moving up here. Okay, that'll do it. For the advice today, I also wanted to update the audience. This is not significant at all. So there's no announcement, really, but we had said on a previous podcast I was going to do a children's only episode where I was going to read a children's book. And we actually did that. The episode we read the Little island, and it was going to be like kind of a silly thing that we're going to do on the podcast, where then I was going to tweet it out, like for kids only, which actually, as I talk about it now seems weird, but I was reading a children's book based on the amount of feedback that I've gotten over the years of people telling me that they put on the podcast for their child to fall asleep. So I'm like, what a funny way to bring it full circle. I'll pick a children's book. Went to Barnes and Noble, found this award winning one, the Little island, and I read it and it was like six minutes and I sent the clip to Ceruti to listen to, and that was all we were gonna post. It was gonna be like Wednesday's episode. This is it. Nothing else. No monologue, which again, maybe puts adults to sleep, but in the Middle of like cerutty listening to it, he goes, are we even allowed to do this? I was like, you know what? Wish I had thought about that. Because you're right. Like publishing, you have to read it. Yeah. Do you have to read. Reach out to the publisher? And then as all of a sudden people are like sending PDFs to each other and it's like, we appreciate. So we can't release it because we don't know. And I don't even think we're going to bother asking because you just know, like on the corporate level of how much of a hassle this will be. And also like the publisher's like, what is this guy trying to do? People fall asleep to his voice. Now he's reading a kid's book. I would think you would want me to read the book because it's kind of like promotion of it. And it was a good book too. I enjoyed it even though I'm older. But we couldn't release the episode. And I know I had teased it, saying we were going to do it. And you probably thought like, maybe I was just fucking with everybody and I wasn't even going to do it. I don't even swear in it too, for, for the people that don't like the occasional swearing because I thought that was important if it was a kids episode. So I don't know what to do. We're going to try to figure this one out. And then of course, Allison was like, you should just write a kid's book. And then she sent me like seven celebrities and all the kids books. Yeah. Writing. And I was like, chad, GPT I don't want to do that.

[Kyle]

Use that as a springboard and just put your own little touches on it and it's done. Maybe that's like an afternoon.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't think I want to do that. I know what you're saying, but like, if I'm going to write a kid's book, I'm going to write it, you know, But I'm not going to write.

[Kyle]

The shit out of it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. So then I'm. And I'm also not going to do that too. So there's that part of it. So, yeah. To the kids out there that are listening, my apologies and I owe you one. I don't know how we're going to do it.

[Kyle]

I'm thinking about like a four year old falling asleep to your old NFL opens with the, with the tackling sound in it as they're dozing off.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not saying Daniel Jones is Going to be like a pro Bowler. But I'll tell you, there was like two third down throws this week. I'm like, I see it. I understand what they saw when they took him that high. It's just immediate. Just drool all over the place. So I think what we're going to try to do is I think we need to find a children's author that can just okay it.

[Kyle]

Self published.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, well, see, okay, but I don't want to do that. And now I'm not mad at Kyle for saying it that way. But then it turns into. Then somebody sees the opportunity to be like, oh, this guy will promote my book, or whatever. So I feel like you kind of had to already have done the children's author thing at a successful level for us to want to get on board with it, if that makes sense. Because, like, we do get pitched a lot of different things. Where I get it, I understand, but like, almost the only person that would benefit from the pitch is the person that's pitching it, which I understand is kind of the motivation behind some of it. But, like, there has to be like a little bit of a give and take where you're like, oh, I'm excited to have this guest on. Cool. Promote all these different kind of things. So I don't know, I don't know how to fix this one. Unless we're going to hear from like published children's authors that can give us the authority to read their book without then some sort of copyright infringement that I think Cerutty, halfway through listening to the episode was just pretty smart to go, hey, dumbass, can we even do this? And I was like, yeah, you're right. I don't know if we can.

[Kyle]

Why don't we put a Phil Collins music bed in the background too while we're at it. Just, I think this, now that you did this, I think this is solved in two weeks. I think you'll have this done in two weeks. I think the reach is far enough that somebody will meet the specifications and.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We'Ll all feel good about it. I love Alison. Everybody knows how much I love Alison. Our booker. When then she was like, no, no, this would be perfect. Just write a kid's book. And I was like, are you insane? Just write a kid. I guess. I mean, look, if you read some kid books, you're like, when did you write this? Which day was this? But I think there's some magic in there. I think there's like a, a method to all of it that works where, like something takes off because you'd just be like, one poop, two poop, three poop, four, you know, like, does this.

[Kyle]

It's hilarious.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did this take a long time? What was the edit on this? Like, right.

[Kyle]

L. Ron Hubbard, Right?

[Chris Mannix]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. So I guess I could just write, like, a really bad one, but I, you know, I have. I have other things that I'm trying to do here, so I don't know that we're gonna do that. So Allison, although she had another recent idea that was one of the worst ideas she's ever had, I don't know that we'll ever share it publicly. She knows it's a terrible idea, and she's so upset about how bad of an idea is retroactively to, like, when she thought this thing was gonna be a really good idea for me. And now she's just, like, horrified by the whole thing. She's gonna hate that we did this, but I don't care. She's the best and whatever. I just wanted to share that. All right, that's enough rambling for this episode. We'll be back on Friday. We've got McShay. We've got, I think, Tony Gonzalez. On top of everything else, we're also going to be releasing an episode on the new Henry V book, which I finished up. That author is going to join us. Jones. Incredible book. A lot of fun. Warrior Prince.

[Kyle]

Yeah, man.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. So there you go. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks for working on Ryan Rossillo podcast. Check out the YouTube page. And Ringer must be 21 and older president. Select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 8003-275050-42247. Support Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York.