The Hockey Was Fun! But Are the NBA Comps Fair? Plus, Wemby’s Future and the Perfect NBA Starting Five With Kirk Goldsberry.

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Episode: "The Hockey Was Fun! But Are the NBA Comps Fair? Plus, Wemby’s Future and the Perfect NBA Starting Five With Kirk Goldsberry"

Release Date: February 21, 2025
Host: Ryen Russillo
Guest: Kirk Goldsberry, Professor and Former Front Office Staff Member at The Ringer

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1. Introduction to the Episode

Ryen Russillo kicks off the episode by sharing personal anecdotes related to sports fandom and health, humorously touching upon experiences with heartburn and the dynamics of being a Canadian in Toronto. He then transitions into the main sports discussions, highlighting the key topics: NBA comparisons, Wembanyama's injury, team performances, and constructing the ideal NBA starting five with Kirk Goldsberry.

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2. Discussing the Spurs vs. Suns Game

Timestamp [16:53]
Ryen introduces Kirk Goldsberry, who provides insights into the recent Spurs victory over the Suns in Austin, Texas. Goldsberry praises the team's defensive strategy and laments the Suns' lack of a cohesive offensive identity.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "They didn't have a North Star as a group. It didn't look like they were playing for each other in a way where the Western Conference is so brutal."

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3. Addressing Victor Wembanyama’s Season-Ending Injury

Timestamp [17:46]
The conversation shifts to the serious topic of Victor Wembanyama's blood clot, addressing rumors and the impact on the Spurs' season. Goldsberry emphasizes the gravity of the health condition, dismissing theories of it being a strategic move to tank the season.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "This is a serious health condition. This is not some tanking technique. It's a terrifying diagnosis that changes your perspective on mortality."

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4. Analyzing Wembanyama’s Development from Year One to Year Two

Timestamp [20:06]
Ryen and Kirk delve into Wembanyama’s performance metrics, noting improvements in defensive statistics while highlighting ongoing challenges in his offensive game. Goldsberry underscores Wembanyama's potential as a disruptive defender but points out the need for growth on the offensive end.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "The most important stat with Victor. He's just 21. He's going to be fully formed on both ends of the court by 2029. That's when his ceiling truly is."

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5. Evaluating Team Performances: Suns, Grizzlies, Houston, OKC

Timestamp [22:00]
The discussion moves to the Suns' inconsistent performance and the impact of Wembanyama's absence. Goldsberry critiques the Suns' offensive stagnation and locker room morale, suggesting that trade rumors surrounding Kevin Durant could further derail the team's prospects.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "The Suns didn't look like they had a North Star. The offense looks stagnant, and the locker room seems disconnected."

Timestamp [24:06]
Goldsberry expresses a preference for the Memphis Grizzlies over the Houston Rockets for the two-seed, citing Memphis' balanced offense and defensive prowess.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "If Memphis is healthy and Ja Morant is available, I like Memphis. Long term, I think I like Houston. But for this season, my answer is the Memphis Grizzlies."

Timestamp [31:21]
The conversation shifts to defensive ratings, with Goldsberry highlighting the Oklahoma City Thunder's exceptional defense as a potential championship contender.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "They have one of the five best defensive differentials in NBA history. They are an outlier on defense and a top-ranked offensive team as well."

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6. Comparing NBA and NHL Team Dynamics

Timestamp [17:46] to [32:32]
Ryen and Goldsberry explore the differences between NBA and NHL team structures, particularly in player rotation and game pacing. They argue that the NBA's demanding schedules and longer player minutes contrast with the NHL's more balanced and strategic player usage, affecting team performance and player health.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "The NBA has eight or nine players rotating, with top guys playing 35 minutes a game. The NHL uses 18 players with shifts that last less than a minute, allowing for more rest and strategic play."

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7. Perfect NBA Starting Five: Goldsberry’s Selection

Timestamp [48:53]
In an engaging segment, Ryen and Kirk collaborate to build the ultimate NBA starting five. Goldsberry selects:

1. Nikola Jokić – Best playmaker and versatile center.
2. Stephen Curry – Elite shooter and playmaker.
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo – Dominant forward with exceptional defense and rebounding.
4. Jayson Tatum – Versatile scorer and defender.
5. Trae Young / Victor Wembanyama – Discussing the choice between the sharpshooting Trae Young and the promising big man Wembanyama.

Goldsberry’s Justification:

• Emphasis on defensive prowess, playmaking, and shooting versatility.
• Preference for players who complement each other’s strengths without overlapping roles excessively.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "My philosophy was to establish core competencies like rim protection, rebounding, playmaking, and three-point shooting. Jokic and Curry set the foundation, followed by Giannis and Tatum to balance defense and scoring."

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8. Challenges with NBA Team Strategies and Player Dynamics

Timestamp [26:14] to [32:32]
The duo critiques the Suns' lack of a cohesive offensive strategy and Durant’s inconsistent leadership. They also discuss the importance of defensive excellence in securing playoff success, using the Thunder and Grizzlies as examples of teams that meet this criterion.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "The Thunder have built the best defense in the NBA by far. Sam Presti has been fantastic with a defense-first approach, making them legitimate contenders."

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9. Team Building and Salary Cap Considerations

Timestamp [33:09] to [48:23]
Ryen and Goldsberry analyze how teams like Cleveland and Toronto are navigating salary caps and player acquisitions. They highlight Cleveland's strategic signings and the potential long-term benefits despite short-term challenges.

Quote:
Kurt Goldsberry: "Kenny Atkinson has done wonders with Cleveland, especially with Evan Mobley. They've transformed the team's offense and built a sustainable defensive identity."

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10. Listener Engagement and Interactive Segments

Throughout the episode, Ryen engages with listener questions and anecdotes, maintaining a conversational and relatable tone. Discussions range from personal experiences with jury duty to handling name-related jokes, adding a lighthearted dimension to the sports-heavy content.

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Conclusion

The episode provides an in-depth analysis of current NBA dynamics, focusing on player health, team strategies, and the balance between offensive and defensive capabilities. With insights from Kirk Goldsberry, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities within the league, the impact of standout players like Wembanyama, and the formulation of an optimal starting lineup. The blend of serious analysis and personal storytelling ensures an engaging and informative listen for both avid sports fans and casual enthusiasts.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "[17:46] Kurt Goldsberry: This is a serious health condition. This is not sort of tanking technique..."
• "[20:06] Kurt Goldsberry: The most important stat with Victor. He's just 21..."
• "[22:00] Kurt Goldsberry: If Memphis is healthy and Ja Morant is available, I like Memphis..."
• "[31:21] Kurt Goldsberry: They have one of the five best defensive differentials in NBA history..."
• "[48:53] Kurt Goldsberry: My philosophy was to establish core competencies like rim protection, rebounding, playmaking, and three-point shooting..."

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Final Thoughts: This episode of "The Ryen Russillo Podcast" offers comprehensive coverage of pivotal NBA topics, enriched by Kirk Goldsberry's expertise. From player injuries and team performances to strategic team building, the discussion provides valuable insights into the evolving landscape of professional basketball.

Transcript

[Ryan Rosillo]

This episode of the Ryan Rosilla Podcast is brought to you by at&t. I want to talk about guarantees and the lack of when it comes to windows in the sports world. I love what the Cavs did this year. They know their windows right now and there's no guarantee that extends beyond this year. We think it could, but many teams have done so in the past. History tells us your window is shorter than you think. There are no guarantees. And then there's the AT&T guarantee. It means connectivity you can depend on, deals you want and service you deserve, or AT&T will make it right. Visit att.com guarantee to learn more. AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguarantee for details. I'm back and I'm ready to talk hockey. But I'm also ready to talk NBA. Both were talked about, both were prepared. Some of the stuff I get, some of it I don't get. That's the monologue. Kurt Goldsberry. We're talking NBA with him, the Spurs Wemby situation. And we put together our most complimentary starting fives of today's players life advice and a jury duty update from who else? Kyle. Let's talk a little hockey. This episode is brought to you by Pepcid Complete. All right, let's talk game day essentials. How do I spend game day? Well, we already know that. Get out of the house, get the blood flowing, try to get some activities going. But man, I had some wings the other night. My brother ordered them. Table wings. It was awesome. And it was also a little reminder. You get a little bit older. But there's one guest that isn't welcome on game day and that's heartburn. Because I remember thinking it was made up. I was like, who gets it? What is it? Do you get dumped and you get it? Nope. You just start to get it, man. I don't know what to tell you. And if you can't fix it, you're in for a tough, tough afternoon. Maybe even into the night. Thankfully, Pepcid Complete starts to work instantly and lasts all day. Just one great tasting chewable tablet provides dual action heartburn relief with an antacid that starts working instantly in an acid reducer that lasts all day so I can stay focused on the game. Visit pepcid.com to shop now all day based on 8 hour symptom relief studies during the day. Use product only as directed. I'm as Canadian as it gets. I'm not Canadian, but I'm pretty Canadian. My mother's side of the family. Great grandmother. She lived in Sherbrooke. Died in Sherbrooke. Summers and Ayers, Cliff Magog, Albert Mines, Moe's River, Milby, Roos's Point. If you get lost in the way back, I make my Toronto jokes. Some of those Raptors fans, I'll hate you forever. But that's not fair to all of Toronto, maybe some of the surrounding areas. Because if the business is true and you left your moms in the hood, somebody go smoke that ute. So I'll never necessarily get over that. I remember going back to 1996, Team USA playing Canada in the World cup of Hockey. I believe we were over at Burki's, Hal Sloat, Gerker. I had a bunch of the hockey guys over, you know, we were what, 21, 22. They were like 24, but yeah, some of the NHL guys, Timmy, Saint Juice, Sorghi, whatever. We're sitting there with all these Canadian dudes. Some of those guys are American that I just named. I just like saying hockey names. And we're watching. Look, we didn't care about the result of that game 48 hours before it. We probably forgot and didn't care about the result of that game 24 hours later. Maybe six hours later. But we sat in a big room, we watched the game, cheered like American idiots. You know, maybe we played Freebird. It was kind of fun seeing people dress up like Ben Franklin, all the music and all that stuff, you know, America. Yeah, but these guys were devastated. I mean, these guys were really bummed out, all right? And I think one of the smart ass guys, the American guys from our group was like, dude, Canada, there's nothing to pay. There's tons of great things about Canada, guys. Don't worry about it. A lot of great exports, some terrific products. No reason to hang your head. Just, it's just a game, guys. It's just a game. Meanwhile, pouring it on, realizing none of us really cared as much. However, I think a lot of us cared last night. So I don't think it's fair to do that to Canada by saying, well, it's not even really a sport that we care about because we cared. I cared. I was rooting for Team usa. Binnington standing on his head in the beginning of that overtime looked like Team USA was going to pull it off. I'm not the trained hockey eye that you're going to. Defenseman, maybe Team America, goaltender, Team America, forwards, always a little behind Canada. But is the gap that big anymore? I don't know, but I understand what this means to that country, especially with my background. And I was thrilled for McDavid because I think when you're the best in the world, it's nice to have one of these moments kind of on your resume. But as I was off this week because I will continue to miss All Star Week. I will put out shows. I will not do live shows. I do not want to go to All Stars Week. I did it a few years ago, Salt Lake, walking around with my lanyard in the concourse. I wasn't even in the arena. I'm like, why am I here again? Why am I doing this? Thank you to the players in the NBA. Thank you for the CBA that gives us this nice little break. And I'll continue to take that break because I think the game stinks. I've watched it, I think twice, maybe one or two times in the last 15 years, only because I had to do something work related. I think that number's true. I just don't watch it. You know how I fixed the All Star Game? I don't have expectations for it. It's terrible. So the problem for the NBA, though, because of the timing part of this is that what I noticed from afar as I was away is that the discussion as this Four nations product was incredible. And a dramatic culmination last night was going up against the worst week of the entire NBA calendar. And that's the All Star Game. Everybody hates it, nobody likes it, Everybody complains about it every single week. Again, fix it by having no expectations for it. That's the way to do it. But the timing of it all, which is what will happen a lot with these discussions, like, what are we doing today? What's going on? And now everybody's talking about being like, man, the NHL gets it and the NBA does it. As an NBA guy, here's the thing. You should try this. You can like things and also think at times they're wrong. You can have a favorite player and that player can do something wrong. Some people should try that from time to time. You have LeBron decide to opt out right before the game, hours before. It was bullshit. And it led to fair criticism of it. But PK Subhan went on, former hockey player, he was on espn and he's essentially like getting into the culture and how he, you know, again, it was kind of an interesting balancing act of being able to talk about the culture of basketball versus the culture of hockey. But Subhan was able to get away with having a discussion. Maybe others wouldn't be able to get away with. So I find that kind of part of it fascinating because look, there are a lot of things in the NBA over the years that I haven't liked. I remember looking back at a five year stretch of the top 20 scorers and I think the number that I had had was like those guys had missed 20, 20 plus percent of available games. If you want to do a year to year which isn't the most scientific thing ever, the top 20 scorers last season in the NHL 14 played 80 or more games. The top 20 scores in the NBA last year, zero played 80 games. Only three didn't play 70. Those because it's been improving. Because I talked about that five year stretch. Go back to 1718. There were eight top 20 scorers in the NBA that didn't play 60 games. Silver's done a better job with this. I think the teams have done a better job with this. I think teams were obsessed about it. I think members of the media were obsessed about rest and all the stuff. Which by the way, the headline doesn't really work. I don't feel like the leads is dramatically healthier now, but I think the teams were mandating it. The players are taking the criticism. I'm not telling you there weren't players that were thrilled to take a few more nights off. But a lot of this stuff is because of the new science and all the resources that were invested in this stuff. So everybody was going to listen to these people. And I don't know that you've had the results that have protected people. But the whole idea of that is so not like hockey. That part of it would make people completely turned off from the NBA or disgusted by the entire approach. And I think that's some of the discussion. But we need to actually talk about how these games are played. Okay? There's a major difference. I know this is shocking and I can't believe I have to be the person that has to do this sometimes. But can we be fair about how a hockey game is played out and how an NBA game is played out? The NBA, it's what, eight guys, maybe nine, five or six of the guys play 30 plus minutes. 30 plus minutes of the 48 minutes. The top guys in the NBA play 35 minutes a game. NHL, the top guys play 25 of the 60 minutes. Their shifts are like less than a minute and then they rest. They have what, four lines of forwards. So there's 12 players there, six defensemen that you rotate. So it's 18 players versus eight or nine for the NBA and the top guys are playing 25 minutes, total of 60 with shifts that end less than a minute of ice time. Do you think the NBA effort would be a little bit better if you were playing 18 guys less than 50% of the available minutes? You play four possessions and then you would go on the bench. Now, maybe I've lost you, or maybe you think that's interesting because there is something true about basketball that I don't know where it comes from. Maybe it's just that you're the fucking man when you're an awesome basketball player. Because in basketball, unlike any other sport, if you were that special, you find ways to get buckets, get it done, and you win the game. Where hockey, a million different things have to happen. Most of the hockey games that are won in the playoffs, in overtime happen because it's just a mistake that the other team made. Football, you can do everything right. Somebody else does something wrong, it doesn't matter. Baseball, you hit it right at somebody. You know what I mean? Like, basketball is the sport. If you are that special, you can decide the outcome on your own because you're only playing five guys at a time, right? So, like, there's some differences with the way the games are played. Like, hockey lends itself to be played at such a ferocious pace because you're out there for like a minute and then there's all these other people at play. The timing thing is another thing that I thought was really weird about this. Okay, so you're comparing the hockey stuff to basketball stuff at the worst possible basketball time, which I've already mentioned. But I watched what Serbia usa. I watch all the Team USA stuff. That Serbia game is going to be one of my favorite basketball games I've ever watched in my entire life. The way I felt about that game, how much I enjoyed that game, the comeback part of it, and yes, that little moment of pride that I think is kind of cool to feel about your country accomplishing something, even if we're the favorites, because everybody's coming for us every single tournament and it's this massive disappointment. We don't win the gold. And the Steph stuff, that is one of my all time favorite games. That was great passion. That was. That was the right culture. Those are all the things that you cared about. And it happened with the same guys that are from a league that just got shit on for a week. Right. It happened this past summer in a way that I think all of us embraced. Would you watch that game and then watch Brewers Marlins in August of 24 and go, man. Baseball's got a real problem. Did you see those basketball dudes? Did you see the culture and the passion that they played with? Of course you wouldn't do that because it was the fucking Olympics against a regular season game. And again, I'm not saying the four nations thing necessarily was the Olympics, but I think that things are very different. I love basketball, okay? Sometimes I don't love the NBA, but we know NBA players, which can be both good and bad. It gets back to the roommate theory, right? The longer you know somebody, the less likely you are probably to like them. If you think of all the people that you've had a lot of access to, is the list a lot longer of people that you like or did you grow tired of a lot of different people? So sometimes with the NBA, I feel like we grow tired of these guys because they've been in the spotlight for 20 plus years. I mean, Kevin Durant had a tweet the other day about hockey. He was basically inviting you to stop watching basketball, which is really stupid and just so self centered when you think of like, yeah, that'd be great if all the best stars in a sport told their fans, go watch something else. After you've pocketed hundreds of millions of dollars based on a television contract and all the daily interest on your league. Like, that's just the wrong message. But it got even dumber. And I like Durant, but he tweeted out something like, at least there's like loyalty in hockey. They don't trade the player. Are you fucking kidding? It's the most creative league in the world when it comes to trading its players. They'll trade anybody, dude in the NHL. And maybe the loyalty thing splits both ways. Did the NHL have a list of NBA players? Excuse me? Does the NHL have a list of players like the NBA where four years to go in an extension? They're demanding trades. Or in this case, both. Before an extension even starts. NHL players are demanding trades. Maybe that's the turnoff, like Durant did, like Ben Simmons did, like Dame Lillard did in a very short amount of time. But again, the tweet didn't even really make any sense. So whether it's like or dislike an NBA player, it's because we know them. Do we know NHL players? Like, look, I'm sure a lot of you that are big time Fans of the NHL are sitting here telling like, do you know Nathan McKinnon's deal? Leading scorer in the league right now, considered the second best player in the world. Do you know anything about him? If you're listening to this pod, you right now, like, you may not even like basketball. Say you're an NFL guy and you just like the monologues. You're like, yeah, well, you probably have an opinion on Durant, on LeBron and Chris Paul on Russell. You probably have opinions on a bunch of these guys. Got any Austin Matthews opinions? Probably not. Look, I love hockey too, and I agree with a lot of the arguments that I heard this week. But I think specific to what was really getting the headlines, it was, it was this victory lap for the NHL against an NBA All Star game that no one has cared about for a long time, including the players. In June of 1994, SI had a cover. It said, why the NHL's hot and the NBA's not. That was 30 years ago. You want to do the TV deals. I'm not going to do those because it's, it's massive. I mean, the ratings are down for both leagues and this kind of stuff. So. Look, the NBA has plenty of things to criticize on the to do list. The to do list is, by the way, never going to be finished. But the function of the way the sports are played and the timing of this argument were incredibly flawed. This episode is brought to you by Viori. It's time to ditch your old work outfit. Seriously, just let them go and try Vuori clothing instead. Their activewear is unbelievable. Sometimes I wear it and I go, do I look too good? I don't want to be at this peak level of awesomeness in their joggers every single day. Day. This is going to be hard to maintain, but that's what the joggers do for you. Whether you're sort of business cash, whether you're just around the house, whether you're working out, whether you're getting on a plane and you're going to be in your seat for a long time. The joggers just give you a hug for the entire flight. It's soft, it's comfortable. You're never going to want to take them off. Incredible versatility. You can wear it while taking part in different kinds of exercises. Running, training, swimming, yoga and more. Viori yoga class. That just makes sense. The Sunday jogger is the number one go to and of course the core short out. Now get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at viori.com Ryan R Y E N that's V-U-O-R-I.com Ryan this episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. So here's how to bring your 2025 wellness a game without busting your budget at Whole Foods Market. You can eat well for less with the yellow low price signs on responsibly farmed Atlantic salmon or no antibiotics ever. Favorites like boneless skinless chicken breasts, ground beef and more. Plus Their House Brand365 by Whole Foods Market has all the good stuff like smoothie ingredients and organic produce at daily low prices. Shop whole food markets in store, online and on Amazon for free pickup and convenient delivery terms apply. Save on your wellness routine with great everyday prices at Whole Foods Market. Okay, let's talk some hoops. Kurt Goldsberry with us now, part of the Ringer. Also professor, former front office staff member. Good to see you, man. It sounds like the entire crew was in your neck of the woods or not the entire crew, but a good chunk of guys down there hoping to see some spurs in action, which is probably where we'll start. So good to see you.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Great to see you, Ryan. It's, again, it's great to be with the Ringer. And you're right, we had a, we had a good crew down here, including CE and Simmons and Shay, Chris, Ryan, Kyle, the whole group. We had a great time. Got to see the spurs beat the Suns here on the campus of UT last night, which was great.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, so let's, let's get into the WEMBY thing because that's kind of the headline piece of this. There's a lot of different stuff that we want to do here. I'll admit, when I heard the news that he was going to be out, that he was going to be out for the season, the, the thought crossed through my mind of is this all strategic about him. But then when you think that it's a blood clot, the serious nature of the blood clot, look at timelines of other players that have had this, how much time that they've actually missed. You are obviously very close to this organization. So he's out for the season. What do we need to kind of do to set the record straight about what this is?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I mean, this is a serious health condition. This is not sort of tanking technique that, that's a disgrace to, to suggest that given my, my proximity to the situation. It's just sad that people would think that, that nobody wants this. I've had blood clots myself. It's a terrifying diagnosis. It changes the way you look at mortality. It changes the way your friends look at your mortality. So I think what the spurs are going through right now is pretty traumatic. Not just as a basketball team but as a group of people because their leader, their future star has this sort of health issue right now. So like everybody I was, I was shocked by the news. I was devastated. And he just hope they can find a treatment plan that gets him right. One, for his long term health as a human being on planet earth and two, as a basketball player. So I think it was a really devastating moment for the season. But in a way it's glad it's a good thing they caught it when they did. And, and we're just hoping that we get, we get fix this thing long term.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I want to talk about Wemby year one to year two because if you look at some of the counting stats, a lot of it's very similar. Some of the metrics are similar. There's also some wind shear stuff where it shows improvement. But funny enough, like the offensive stuff was a negative, but that was a negative because of the collective, I think. And one of the benefits of having Chris Paul is like the identified roles. When I watch San Antonio now, even with the Fox acquisition, which they're still kind of figuring Wemby to this point of being out of the season, it felt like they knew the rotation, they knew what everybody was supposed to be doing. The sub patterns, granted with last year's roster, they were trying a bunch of different stuff. It wasn't necessarily a very good team. I think Kelvin looking much better, looking like the Keldon I used to like a couple years ago has also helped as well. So it just feels like it's a more identifiable team. What do you look for? Because like he looks like a better player as you'd expect with just a year of experience from him. So I don't, I don't want people to take a simple approach of wembanyama into year two of like, well, you know, how much better is he and does he take too many threes? What do you look at to better understand, you know, where he is improvement wise from what we saw in the second season?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Well, I think defense in a nutshell and I think some of the more advanced individual defensive numbers, specifically when Victor's around, paint shots don't go in is the definitive stat of this young man's career so far and that has gotten better. In fact it's some of the best paint protection numbers we've seen in the player tracking era. I think this man ceiling was always on the defensive end of the court as potentially the most disruptive defender in the world. And I think from year one to year two, Ryan, we started to see him assert that in the, in, in deep player tracking numbers. You know, when, when Victor is contesting a shot, what happens? It doesn't go in. When Victor is near a layup attempt, what happens? It doesn't go in at a rate we would expect. Even compared to people like Rudy Gobert or Jaren Jackson, he's starting to climb above those guys. I think it's still fair to say he's not a great offensive player. I think that side of the court is where he needs to find his footing. And I think at times he looks awkward. I think at times he settles for shots that I don't think he's happy with, I don't think his teammates are happy with. So I think he's ahead on defense and still a work in progress on offense. But I always say this, the most important stat with Victor. We're 21 years old. He just turned 21 when he's 25. And I, I, I said this when I wrote about him, I think in the ring or top 10, the second youngest guy in that is, is Luca, who's just turning 26. Wimy's not going to be 26 until 2029. So think about that. That's, that's when he's going to be fully formed on both ends of the court. And that, I think, is one of the scariest things in the NBA.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay. You also get to see the suns. They were 8 and 1 to start. They're 18 and 28. Since then, they had a stretch where they won 8 out of 10 where I still didn't like what I saw, and now they're losing games at another clip. And when you start looking at projecting who's in or who's out of the playing game and clearly the women Yama stuff is significant. You know, I don't know if Dallas can lose that many games, you know, depending on, on what the health situation is with Anthony Davis. It just feels like one of the teams, maybe Golden State, one of the teams in this group is going to be like, oh, that guy. Like, that guy's out of the actual playoff picture. Do you think that's the Suns?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

It's, they've got to be a candidate. From what I saw last night, remember, they, they're playing a game. It should be a really emotional game. So let's set the stage. We're in Austin, Texas. Were Kevin Durant people here. Kevin's playing his first game on our campus in 15 years or more. And it just was. It was kind of sad. It was kind of depressing. Royce O'Neill was their leading scorer. They have Devin Booker and Kevin Durant. The offense looks stagnant. They had Stash Kevin in the corner a lot. I'm like, it looked like another UT guy. It looked like PJ Tucker out there at times. And I love PJ and I love Kevin. I just. They didn't. It didn't look like they had a North Star as a group. It didn't look like they were playing for each other in a way where the Western Conference is so brutal, they're going to get exposed on offense and defense. If you're not playing like that, there's still a point guard issue. It was only one game. I don't want to overreact, but the thing I would ask you about, Ryan, is it seems like the trade deadline gossip and rumors around Kevin Durant have the potential to derail the morale in that locker room. And I think if I saw. If I saw anything last night, it was a team that wasn't, like, thrilled with each other.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I thought his answer about the dynamic in the locker room was very telling because I think it was Ramona Shelburne and was it. Was it with someone else? So I. I don't want to leave anybody out if I'm. I'm not giving credits. Maybe I'll look it up a little bit later as we're doing this, but it was describing or hinting at a toxic workplace, locker room, all that kind of stuff. And then Durant addresses it, basically dismisses it all. But as he's suggesting why it isn't he. He's not doing a very good job. He's like, hey, some guys are in the training room, Some guys are doing their own thing. Some guys are off here. They're on their phones. It's like you're actually describing something that sounds like it's not that tight of a group group or a group that's all that connected. And by the way, like, nobody. People just rarely would go, yeah, Once everybody kind of realized I didn't want to be here, then I kind of ruined the vibe around this entire team. Look, we had heard this summer that he wanted to be in Houston. That playoff elimination was embarrassing. Like, Minnesota was laughing at those dudes. Okay. They had a good off season for what they needed to do and. And get work done in the margins. I've actually been kind of impressed with. With some of the stuff they've been able to pull off, and I felt like they had come in. But the Tyus Jones point guard part of it, like, what we liked about it in the beginning, like, hey, what a great concept. Have these guys play off the ball. When I watch Phoenix, it's still Booker having to do everything. It's still Booker having to do everything, despite the Durant stuff. So, like, Durant's still going to have all these numbers. When I watch Durant now, there's just certain nights where it's a reminder of his greatness. I was watching. I forget which international game it was because it was in the Netflix. I think it was because it was in the Netflix doc that I did, where we were talking about Team USA and what they had done this past summer. But there was footage of Durant earlier, and you were watching that game again. You're going, durant in that moment was the best player on the floor of anybody that was out there. And I know that's a few years ago, but I'm always. I guess I'm just becoming more and more confused about Durant. Like, I just go, what do you want, dude? Like, what do you actually want? Cause as soon as you get what you think you want, you don't seem to want that either.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah, I mean, is it fair to say he's a journeyman at this point in his career? I wouldn't throw that term out, you know, for. For many superstars, but he. He just seems to. To travel around, and the teams that he's played for since and including the last year in Golden State, have had this sort of moody, dramatic undertones. And out of respect, he's one of the best players in the world, but teams sort of take on the personality of. Of their leaders, and again, here we are. And last night, he's yelling at people, he's being demonstrative. He's sort of pouting at times, and then he'll make a couple plays. You're like, gosh, he's the only player in the world that could do what he just did. But, dude, you know, you are. The way I look at the game, you are what your stats say you are. 55 games. I'm looking at their stats through this season. They're 20th in that rating. They have an average offense and a below average defense. I mean, what can you say to that? Why am I supposed to believe in the next 27 games, something meaningful is going to change here, and they're going to become something they're not? And so I could see another playoff exit Similar to the one we had last year. And I could see that being Kevin Durant's last moment in a son's uniform last year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You could point to, okay, here's what the record is. When the three guys play, okay, and they had that ridiculous, like, just off the charts, bad clutch offensive rating, like, it was so bad, Kirk, that I don't. I didn't even know that we could do. You were just like, that can't be real. Like, that's kind of how it's playing out. Because I do think sometimes in the clutch numbers, you can have such bad stretches where the number looks terrible and it's like, is that really who you are? And then I don't know what it is. I didn't look it up this morning, and I know they were back in the game last night, and then they, you know, get run out of it towards the end, but that number was a lot better. I. Maybe I'll look it up again here. I have. I have a to do list while I do this interview. This doesn't happen all that often, but there was a turning point of that. We're like, okay, well, that. That makes more sense that it's better now. But I'm with you. I mean, look, 8 and 28 or. Excuse me, 18 and 28. 18 and 28. Since that 8 and 1 start, who do you like better, Memphis or Houston?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Who do I like better, Memphis or Houston? If Memphis is healthy and John Morant is available this year, I like Memphis. Long term, I think I like Houston. But for this season, my answer is the Memphis Grizzlies. I love what they can do on both ends of the floor. I love the job. Morant seems unafraid, and that's the character that Houston is missing right now at the Running the offense in a big moment in a big game. You know, it's not everybody's been saying this all year, but the Fred Van Fleet thing has been okay. But there are moments in a close game like we're going to encounter in the postseason where that Houston Rockets offense doesn't seem to get anything going. And for that reason, looking forward to the postseason, I'm going to say I like the Memphis Grizzlies better. I love Jaren Jackson. I love what they have as a. What Jalen Rose would call their basketball geometry. I love how they are able to decorate the basketball court in a way that Houston, by the way, they should be thrilled. This team is on the road to something really good. But right now in this season, I'm going to take the Grizzlies.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ryan, I think the job part of it that is ceiling if he's playing consistently and peaking at the right time is, is the tiebreaker. You know, if you look at the two teams as maybe you don't even look at them as tie because this has not been like the best production season from Jaw. Jaren Jackson's taking it to another level. The fact that they seem to find rotation guys in the draft as well as any organization they can just kind of, you know, they made a decision on Laravia's contract which at the time probably made sense. Maybe they regretted a little bit later on, but he moves out. I think some other teams liked him enough to think that he's going to be a long term role player. But here's a team fighting for a two seed that's like, you know, we're actually okay moving him out with some of the other guys that they've gotten back because they have just really good depth in those stages. But I haven't always loved the Jaw stuff from this year, but I know that it exists. It exists to a point where if he's playing for a month or two straight and he's healthy and he's good to go, I would expect him to be back at like peak jaw levels with a better Jaren Jackson. So I, I think that's the right call because that offense with Houston, I'm scared to death of it in big spots. The turn taking the ganging up on Van Vliet. The defense is going to be terrific. I'm not worried about that. But again, that's another team where you look at the offensive rating and some of the clutch stuff for them. Their clutch numbers in general are just really weird despite having a 19 and 15 record in those games. And by the way, Phoenix is 10th in clutch offense this year, so I knew it was better than it was last year.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Well, sometimes it just makes sense, right? They don't have a guy can go create their own shot like that's, that's the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Jalen Green's not that guy for you. Too erratic.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

He's. He's better in 2025 than I expected him to be at the beginning of 2024. And I would give him credit for having sort of this awakening, but he's not there yet. He could be there, Ryan. He could be there. And again, this team went from really bad to really good in the last three years. I don't have many notes. I think IME has been a fantastic hire. I think the Defensive identity is sustainable. I love this team. But yes, what you're saying the weakness is this is a average or below average NBA offense and that's just really hard to win with in the playoffs. When all the bad defenses go away from the equation and you're now playing against the best defenses in the west, you win round one. Okay, now level up round two. Are you going to be able to score against OKC in, in, in the third quarter or fourth quarter when they're locked in? Again, no disrespect, I just think that's where John Moran or Desmond Bain or Jaren Jackson has a little more to give in 2025 than some of these Rockets players.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Let's talk Cleveland. I love the DeAndre Hunter at. I even like the Javante Green ad because it's clear they are stockpiling wings here. Hunter makes sense because he's a good player. The Javante part of it. I'm like, okay, this, this makes sense. They have to figure out how to throw multiple wings even if their closing group could still be Streuss as the fifth guy, depending on the spacing needs. You know, I can see Atkinson mixing and matching normally. I'm like, hey, look, who are the players? That's who I'll pick against. That's who I'll pick for. But Atkinson has done, I think in the case here, one of those rare on the fly.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Movements where it's just like, look, we have the pieces already here. We just, we need to play the game a little bit differently and certainly having better health this year than last year's part of it. I went from nice story to I'm, I'm fully on board with them winning the east even if I still will pick Boston in the series against him.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I remember I was, I thought I was bullish on the Cleveland Cavaliers at the beginning of the year. I said, hey, I think this team could be second. And to everybody's credit, they're first. They deserve to be first. And I think you're exactly right. They went from a cool story to, oh, this might be a problem for the Celtics, this might be a problem. It's the best first year coaching performance in terms of like an offensive remaking since Steve Kerr took over for Mark Jackson. And what did he do? There was a lot of motion stuff. It was, hey, how can I unlock this backcourt of Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson? How can we get away from some of this pick and roll traditional stuff and play through some bigs? And Golden State was never the same and it just took off and changed the game. Kenny is the guys playing such great offense and has really found ways to get the most out of Darius Garland. Donovan Mitchell, remember Donovan Mitchell seemed like, oh, is this guy going to go to New York? Is he going to ask out? Like, doesn't seem like that anymore. And I think the biggest magic trick Ryan has been what Kenny has been able to do with Evan Mobley. And I remember talking to Kenny this summer and he was like, I got to get this guy to shoot. I got to get this guy to shoot. And you know, this is the guy who presided over the, the Brook Lopez metamorphosis in the Nets organization. And he recognized, man, if Evan Mobley can just stretch us out a little bit because Jared Allen's never going to do that for us, we're going to be really hard to guard. And to Evan's credit and to Kenny's credit, they had faith they could pull this off and they've done it. And I think that's been really. Aside from the motion sets, the Evan Mobley shooting stuff has been one of the biggest parts of this Cleveland surge. But I love this team. And to add on to your point, I love DeAndre Hunter at the deadline. I think that could really be a difference maker in the playoffs.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When I asked you about Memphis and Houston, thinking about who the two seed can be in the rotation of teams that have been the two seed at certain stages here of the season, the reason I would ask it that way is because when I look at Denver, I go, okay, fully formed. And with Jokic and the Aaron Gordon piece was a big part of like, hey, what's wrong with this team? And the depth issues that you worry about in the regular season, we're not going to worry about as much. But I think at least Brown is, is improved to a point where I think playing with Jokic just unlocks like there's stuff. There's some Brown stats. Stats, excuse me, where you're like, okay, well that's, that's pretty impressive. And like, okay, part of that's a credit to him. The improvement is athleticism, but it's also the fact you're playing here with Jokic. So I think we'd agree that it's. It's OKC and then it's Denver there. But let's talk defensively and the trends because Denver is not there defensively. Maybe we don't worry about it with them because we've already seen him do it 17th in defense this year. Last 15 games are actually 18th the Knicks are a good example. They're 18th on defense. They're 11 and 4 in their last 15, but they're 22nd in defensive rating when you go over the last 15 games. So they're winning all these games. And I like the Knicks. I would. I would give Denver the benefit of the doubt in a way that I probably wouldn't give the Knicks. But defensively, some of the stuff, the standard that you have to be at to be considered a real contender.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah, it's my golden rule. I stole it from Zach Lowe. I think 10 or 15 years ago, he really drilled down on the fact that you need to be a top 10 defense in the regular season if you want to win the NBA title. And as a matter of fact, over the last 25 years, I think only one or two teams have not checked that box. One was a Lakers team that famously played themselves into shape, and one was the Denver Nuggets from a few years ago, and that was behind Jokic, his masterpiece in the postseason. So you kind of have to factor that into the Nuggets playoff future. They've already done it. As you said, Nicole, Jokic has a red flag on defense, his rim protection. I wrote about it right before the playoffs that year, and I said, I don't think they can do this with this guy. And I was wrong. Hand up. You know, live and learn. But I still see that in the thing with the Knicks is the same thing everybody's been saying, hey, can you have Karl Anthony Towns as a five man and win playoff series against Cleveland and Boston? Hey, call me skeptical. I don't think you can. And I would say the same thing with Denver. Can you stop the best teams in the west with. With that defense? Can you stop OKC and those young legs with a defense that's not that great? I'm skeptical. I still think that people overlook defensive excellence at this stage in the season as a predictive factor for who's going to do really well in the playoffs. And right now, there's. There's teams who check that box that are legitimate contenders, starting with Boston, obviously. Memphis and Houston. OKC being the number one of those teams, and we talked about this a little bit earlier, what OKC is doing on defense right now screams title contender to somebody who's trying to predict this with the key metrics.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, so do we have that number? Because I know that we were talking about it this morning off the air. I'll. I'll update it then. Because I don't. I don't have the Latest number. But basically, if you look at the Thunder's defensive rating and where they are in the season that they're playing in the differential based on like everything we're talking about all time stuff. So it's not just the best defense in the NBA this season where they are in comparison to where everyone else is in the rest of the league with this offensive explosion that continues every single year, we're looking at like one of the five best defensive differentials in NBA history. So it's not just that they're the best defense this year. And look, I'll tell you, there are certain nights where I've watched them and the audience already knows this, but I'm just rehashing it with you. That fifth game of the season, I think against Wembanyama, they horrified him, they hounded him. They're like, if you wait, we will attack the Houston in season tournament game where Houston couldn't even get their first pass set. Like whatever they were running, they were having a hard time. And I'm not even talking about the entry pass issue, the endangered species, the entry pass. But they couldn't get the first action to go because of what these guys do. And you know, I was watching when Cleveland played against him and those that, that first game was a lot of fun where Carol Silvert came in and he did hit a couple corner threes. But Karras wants to create on the ball and, and you could just think what Kenny Atkinson and his staff is saying to him, being like, why? Like we, we know how we have to play against him. You got to move. You can't wait. Because if you wait, they attack and Caris Lavert's just out there dangling with the basketball and it's just a disaster. And I don't think Kenny even brought him back in in the fourth quarter even though he had made a couple threes. And granted he's not even on the team anymore. He's a perfect Atlanta Hawk. You cannot screw around with them. And now they get checked back. And clearly in the games that Chet's been back, he, he looks a lot like you'd expect Chet to look a guy who hasn't played basketball in a really long time. So I think Chet offensively brings them something that, that maybe makes them like there could be a, a version of events as this season closes where every single person is picking okc. Once the playoffs get started, I will be.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I mean, they deserve it. The way I look at the game, I'd be doing a disservice to the analytics guys. But yeah, they are to your point. The the league average and offensive efficiency right now is I think 113 or 114 points per 100 they're giving up 104.5. That delta from the league averaged is one of the highest Deltas we ever seen. I don't have the teams that have have beat them in that category. But Sam Presti has architected a great spurs like defense here. He is a, a product of RC Buford and he knows to win in small markets defense is very important and he has built the best defense in the NBA by far. The gap between the Thunder and the Clippers, who currently are quietly the second best defense in the NBA is massive relative to what we normally see in an NBA season. So they are an outlier on defense and by the way, they're a top ranked 6, I think 6th ranked offense too. There are some red flags and I go back to a different game where Giannis at the in season tournament really exposed their lack of size which is, has been the sort of fatal flaw in their death star, I think for a couple of years. The Hartenstein acquisition was designed to sort of deal with that, but it didn't deal with that with Giannis. But they're not going to face Giannis in the Western Conference playoffs and he's sort of a one of a kind physical force that can expose that lack of physicality in a front court. I don't think there's a Western Conference Giannis out there right now. So I like the way they're positioned, obviously and I think their defense is their calling card. And it starts with Shea, who is a menace. He leads by example, he deflects, he grabs about more loose balls than anybody else in the NBA. You don't see a lot of superstars or MVP candidates diving on the floor like that in this league. And so I think he sets the tone and I anticipate picking them to win the NBA championship here in a few weeks.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I picked him this summer, so I can't wait to see what they look like with Chet and some of the defensive stuff and I think what kind of offense he's able to just plug and play and be off the ball here a little bit. Okay, last thing before we get to our bigger exercise of the rebuilding teams. And I don't even know if Portland's in that right now. They probably are, but I know they lost last night to the Lakers who we didn't even touch on here today. Who do you think has the toughest spot Right now because the guys I'm part of my take asked me who's in the toughest spot and I pick Charlotte. Even though there's other players on Charlotte that I like only because I feel like they have a Lamello decision that's heavily influenced by probably the people in business affairs and just the people that their priority may not be on the basketball all the time. It's like, what do we have to sell? What attract. And Lamelo is a clear attraction who they've invested in. And that may be a tougher decision than some of the teams with lesser talent on rosters.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I. I will defend Charlotte here. At least it's not being that as we've seen Ryan, I think ownership matters. I think we've learned that in the last few weeks following the NBA and Charlotte has new owners and I think they're committed to. To building a smarter team. I love Charles Lee. You want to talk about sort of assets and I love the coaching staff that they've assembled. Some former Celtics guys. Josh Longstaff has been around. I think they've made some good choices there. And I would argue that Brandon Miller and Lamelo, yeah, they're decisions, but they're also. If they make the decision to get off of them, they bring back a hard.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Not Miller. I'm not including Miller in this. Wanting to get off.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

No, no, no. I'm just saying. So I'm going with the Wizards. I should have said this. I buried the lead. Apologies to our listeners. The Wizards don't have anything. Like I just said to me, they're the clear answer here. I don't see a Brandon Miller. I don't see a Charles Lee there. I would say the Wizards have a track record of not performing. So I'm going to say it's the Wizards.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's probably the right call.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I mean, Jordan Pool is fun to watch. They're 9:45. Who is he fun to.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Watch for the other team?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

If you have a struggling offensive point guard and you need to get this lump to bust, you just get that Jordan Pool ISO and it's fun to watch.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Was that kind of a Brian Keef disc from you?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I don't know, dude. I guess Corey Kispert is. Is somebody to be excited about. Sar could still. I think he's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What about Bud Carrington?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What about Kula Bali? Dude?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Would you do Lamelo for Kula Bali? Okay. All right. I have to stop. I have to stop because I. I want to do this. I want to do this. Although Toronto might be In a tougher spot than everybody because massage decided to pay Scotty Barnes next year, who we like a lot. Brandon Ingram, who they just traded for quickly. RJ Barrett, hell of a talent. Those four guys next year are going to be making $137 million combined. You want to get weird and throw in Pearl, then throw in another 20 million. Purl at 20 million. Probably not the. The worst deal that you're going to have there. I. This is a very strange approach to building a team. Being like these guys that are kind of good, but you. You wouldn't want to pay. And I'm not including Scotty Barnes in this. All right. I'm. This is. And some people. I felt like Simmons was kind of turning the page on Scotty Barnes in a way that I had to push back on a little bit more. When we were. We were talking and doing his trade value ranking stuff, because it just felt weird that Paolo was 8, Scotty Barnes was 58. I was like, I like Palo better, But is it 50 spots? But those four dudes to be spending $137 million on next year is not necessarily the way. Like, if there was a seminar in Vegas, they will not use this as a way to be like, this is what GM should be doing.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah, I've thought. I think Toronto, since winning the title, has made a series of big moves. And I don't know if they've lined up for a really strong second half of the 2000 and twenties. In fact, I would say Brandon Ingram reminds me of paying DeMar DeRozan did a few years ago. It feels like he's a talented player, he's a great scorer. But really, what's the ceiling of your team when you have a Brandon Ingram, Scotty Barnes cap sheet? Like, those are your two headliners on your cap sheet. What's. What's the ceiling here? Again, this is a league where you're playing Boston and Cleveland. Indiana looks good. The east is the Knicks. Like, it's hard to get up there, and I just don't see those guys helping you overcome those other teams. So I think Toronto is fair to throw in there. But I'm going back to the Washington Wizards, who have been one of the worst teams of the decade so far this year, and I don't see a lot of bright spots there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, final exercise. I told you last night, I want to come up with. I want to come up with the best starting five. Not who are the five best players in the NBA based on everything that we know right now to this Point of the season if you were building the ultimate starting five to complement each other, Maybe I'm just in that hockey mode right now and I'm just thinking about teams and players and talents that complement each other. I have mine. I want you to go first and then we'll kind of maybe work through the exercise together.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

It starts with Jokic for me, and it starts with Stephen Curry and SGA in the backcourt, which I think is if there's a weak link in my team, it's can that backcourt play well together? But that's where I'm going. And then I got Giannis and Tatum. All right, so Stefan sga, Tatum, Giannis, Jokic. There were some hard decisions for me here. I wanted to do something crazy like put Franz Wagner in there for Ceruti or put Derrick White because I love off ball and defense. But I think I was able to find things. My philosophy with this exercise, Ryan, was I wanted to establish a few core competencies. I needed the diversity of skills. Rim protection, rebounding, playmaking, three point shooting, paint scoring, passing, screening. And my group addressed all of those. And I hired specific members of my group to address those core competencies.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, I like this because the original draft we had four or five the same, and then if I switch out something, then it would be four or five of the same. So I didn't. I didn't think we would be this aligned. Wait, tell me about your Derek White approach.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Derek White. So I'm biased because I was part of the group that drafted Derek a long time ago and I've loved him. So I'm a little too close. Call it like a Nico ad situation. I'm pretty biased. I might be blinded there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Would you trade Luca for him?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I would trade Luca for Derrick White, yeah. That's how much I. But I do love Derek. And as we saw in the Olympics, sometimes it's not the superstars that you need out there. And what I would say about Derrick White is he's too good to be called a role player. But he's an off ball. He's a great off ball player offensively. And the stuff he does on defense. And again, when people do these exercises, they barely talk about defense. Derek White has the heart of a defensive champion. He is. I love that about him. But ultimately I thought I could get that with sga, with Giannis and Tatum. So I took him off of my. My short list.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay. It starts with Jokic. Best play in the world. Good place to start. Also a deferential player in the Best possible way. You wish he would shoot more sometimes. Although in that stretch where there weren't a lot of healthy teammates and options, he started cranking up the output a little bit. So he could crank it up. He could have more counting stats if he wanted. He just doesn't see the game that way. And he makes everybody around him better. So because of that, I want people that are also good off the ball, because the ball is going to be in Jokic's hands such a large amount of the time. So I agreed with you. I still think Steph is somebody that off the ball. The great. The great thing about Steph in his career is he's another guy. Like, he could. You don't think he'd get 50 during those prime years all the time if he wanted to, but it's just not the way that he plays. And the fact that they've run so much throughout his entire career where he's not initiating the offense of the ball in his hand. He would be happy to be playing off of Jokic. And if you needed step to run point for you at other times, then you can do it. So when I thought about the defensive part that you talked about earlier with Jokic, because I too, had those same concerns about him. Although I think guys like. Cause if you listen to those first two, you're thinking, okay, so you don't want to be good on defense. Like, where are the defenders? First of all, I think defensive stuff becomes a lot about awareness and positioning than it does just awesome contests at the rim, because we didn't even have contests at the rim the way that we used to have. And it's not so much like lockdown. No one will be able to dribble around me. Jokic and Steph are two guys. Despite their defense, their defensive limitations are always positioned because they're smart players. They understand the positioning part of that. So do I want to put Wembanyama next to Jokic instead of Giannis? Is what it came down to for me.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Wemby is a much better spacing option than Giannis could ever be. And if I have Jokic out there, I mean, Giannis is going to find a way in whatever the five is. Right? So I don't want to make this sound like it's a critique of Giannis, but at least with Wemby, I can. I can have him space the floor while I get all that defense where with Giannis, is there any way that it clogs, especially when I add my two other wings? What do you Think of that?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I think that's the right question. And I would say there's no way it clogs because Stephan. The other thing that Stefan does is he thins out the defense and terrifies the 10 eyeballs of the defenders at all times. He's distracting. And so we're going to have an expansive scoring era area. And then I think the reason I chose Giannis, I mean this is a guy who won finals MVP a few years ago with one of the best finals games we've ever seen where he scored what, 50 and get all of.

[Ryan Rosillo]

His free throws of all the time to do it.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah, I think Wemby would replace him in this group in two or three years. I just don't think he's there yet. The other thing is Giannis is a, as a rebounder and as a rim protector though Wemby can do that, but just as the physical force to pressure the rim. And here's the thing. Spacing starts at the rim, Ryan. And nobody pressures the rim as much as Giannis Antetokounmpo does. He freaks the defense out because he. Look at the in season tournament final dude, he took it to them. Power up the middle. That's the, the, the, the, the tush push of the NBA, right? Is, is Giannis going forward and getting to the rim. And I think that's the most underrated value of Giannis Antetokounmpo is. Bud built that five out offense around him because he knew he the teams had to protect the paint so much with Giannis on the floor. And that's really the weakness with Wemby right now. And if you talk to people around the spurs, it's like, oh, that's how he's got to grow. He settles for too many jumpers. He should be a top 10 points in the paint guy. He's not. So that's ultimately why I chose Giannis for now. I hope that Wemby gets there, but he's not there yet, in my opinion.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, so if I stay with Wemby because of my spacing thing and you made a fantastic argument for Giannis, then I would go Tatum and then I would go Ant. Now immediately you're like, where is sga? You're out of your mind. I'd be a little worried about a backcourt of Steph and SGA. Defensively, I think SGA's oddly, he gets like defensive player, like defensive team votes, which kind of surprises me a little bit with him. But he also doesn't have to be the defender that these other guys on the team because they just have such great options. Because if I had Jokic, Steph Wemby and Tatum, then I need a motherfucker. I need one motherfucker and that would be the ant roll. And off the ball. I mean, look, the shooting is terrific. It's a 41%. We could talk about him settling a little bit, but I think ball in your hands. Can you get us something when everything breaks down and you're just on a side? I think Ann is still one of the best players in the league at that kind of stuff. And you'd put Tatum in that class as well. And certainly SGA is right up there. But Tatum is basically become the point guard of the Celtics. So you can move him around in a bunch of different ways. Maybe the limitation there would be, is he going to be as good off the ball? Is he going to have the same catch and shoot numbers? What are SGA's catch and shoot numbers? Because he initiates so much stuff off the ball. If I went Jokic, Giannis, then I would go Tatum, sga. If I'm Jokic, Steph Wemby, Tatum, then I have to have ant because I need one dude who I did. It's my Matt Barnes thing. I need one guy that may do something that is a little in the gray area. I think every basketball team needs one of those guys.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Well, do we get Jokic, his brothers? If we get Jokic? Because those guys live in that gray area, bro. I think that's right. Tatum. I love Tatum. I had Tatum versus LeBron and I disagree with Steve Kerr. I think that Tatum right now in 2025 is a more complete forward. His rebounding numbers and his defense when he locks in is still really good. He's averaging, I think eight defensive rebounds a game, which I think is really important. But I love the end point, honestly. And SGA and when you're trying to build the dream backcourt, I think that's where we zero in on. Are SGA and Steph Curry a good pairing? And I said that I'm not sure sga, there's a little bit too much ISO for me. It's a little herky jerky. I think ant can space the floor next to Jokic and knock down, catch and shoot threes at a high rate, which, look, some people don't love that this dude is shooting 10 threes a night or whatever it is now, but he's good at it. He's shooting 40% like you said. And I think that goes really well next to Nicole Jokic, as we've seen. And if there's a criticism of Calvin Booth and the Nuggets front office, it's like, give him more shooters, please give him more shooters. Because he, he is just that good. And when they've had those shooters in Denver, they've been unstoppable on offense.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Was there any thought to Aaron Wiggins?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

He didn't make my my list. No. Tell me, what's the take?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just love him. I. If we had to force a role player in there 6 man, I will.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Say to pander to our friend Ceruti Franz. Franz to me is like the Swiss army knife or I guess a German army knife for led to say that he can do everything. And he was on my list and I almost put him on there. But again, he's a couple years away from being that guy. But I like his size, I like his versatility, I love his basketball iq. He has become a guy who I think could slide into any team and just thrive in multiple ways. But ultimately Curry, Jokic, sga, Giannis and Tatum was my list and I feel pretty good about it without Wiggins or Derrick White or Franz Wagner.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, well done. I like the exercise I don't like. I just think how much Wemby's shooting would improve instead of like pull up threes off the dribble when nothing else is working offensively. Where against having Stefan Jokic run around, you probably end up saying leave Wemby.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah, leave Wemby for sure. He's 21. I mean he's going to get to a point where he's a 40% three point shooter and that, that's curtains. And he's going to get there, I promise. Look at his free throw number. He's going to get there just like ant and ants a few years ahead of him. But when he shoots 40% from three, it's. It's going to be crazy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That is Kurt Goldsberry. You can check out his work on the ringer. What do you have coming up?

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I'm looking at Luca. We don't have an angle, but we're looking at Lakers. Luca, if you have an angle, Ryan, you're really good at framing these stories. Been a little disappointing early, so we're trying to hedge. But I think I gotta dive into this new look Lakers team and look at Luga Doncic.

[Ryan Rosillo]

How about this? How about we wait like a little longer than three or four games before we start to say that LeBron's legacy is damaged because of Lucas performance a week in where he played two games, had a week off, then had another game. Like can we, can we chill out a little bit on that? Like I understand some of the arguments against LeBron as I understand anything right? Like okay, yeah, I don't love that either. You are absolutely telling on yourself if you're like well this LeBron guy we finally have all the results in. He's not a great teammate. Look how bad Luke has been after missing two months.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

He scored 40 points in his two of last five games at a 40 year old man. I know we run out of time. What, what, what is your Lakers ceiling for this season? I think the Luca story is a longer term play, but what is your, what is your Lakers ceiling this year?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Depends on when they play Denver. So it's second round exit against Denver. I don't think, I don't think the Lakers can get to the Western Conference finals. That feels impossible.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Again, the defense is going to be the problem there. Too many one way players, some savants on offense and Austin Reeves is a nice player but yet the D. How are you getting stops in the playoffs against these teams? That's the question I'm looking to answer. But yeah, I'm looking at Luka Doncic, man. I mean it's giving us great content at the ringer and I'm going to dive in. So look for that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right, sounds good. Thanks Herc.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Thank you brother. You want details?

[Kyle]

Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. One thing I always like to have on hand lately is my Apple Card. It's easy to use with up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. And getting the card was pretty fast and easy too. You can apply, check your credit limit offer and begin using it in minutes. Do it while watching a football game and you could use it before the end of the first quarter. It's that fast. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone and start using it right away with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Amazon Business. It's no secret that we could all use a little more time in our lives. Thankfully, Amazon Business offers smart business buying solutions so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing the admin. I can see why they call it smart. Visit business.Amazon.com to learn more. What's up?

[Ceruti]

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

I have every toy you can possibly imagine.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice the email address lifeadvicermail.com We've got Kyle, We've got Ceruti Wargon lurking. Little disruption to the normal show with the All Star break, which I will continue to take with the players. Thank you. Thank you to the CBA for that one. As I mentioned in the open, walking around Salt Lake a few years ago, I go, why am I doing this again? There's no games. So yeah, so here we are. We're live and ready to go. We have video as well. So good to see everybody. What's up, sir? You get a nice smile going?

[Ceruti]

No, the boys, everyone's kind of coming back. Travel day. Yesterday we were in Austin for the Bill pod. Late night Thursday night, which was fun. Hung out with CR Fantasy, Shea Serrano. Kurt Goldsberry was there. Who will be obviously was on the pod today. So it was a fun time.

[Kyle]

Kyle, it was great. I took over the jukebox at the second place, passed around the phone. Everybody did a couple of songs. Yeah, it was a good time. I mean, I don't know. I think that Denver show was like a turning point for Bill where he's just now you just expect him to stay out late, which in my experience has not been the case. So. Turned over a new leaf, that guy. And I couldn't be happier.

[Ceruti]

Vibes were high. I will say. Kyle. Yeah. Kyle literally was passing his phone around to the jukebox apps and everyone was just picking a song. What did you. I picked, you know, I wasn't trying to like suck up or anything, but I had Steely Dan on my mind, so I picked Reeling in the ears. I was just listening to that song. I had just watched the Yacht Rock Doc and I was like, this is. That's just on my mind. So that was my song choice.

[Kyle]

I started with Night Moves just to kick it off and then everyone seemed to like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No Lincoln park from you Surety.

[Ceruti]

No, I did. I did pick a Weezer song the second time that didn't get played. So, you know, next time, next time.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Sounds like somebody owes you a song.

[Ceruti]

I'll get that one. The next time he's at Frolic Room, it's like, why say it ain't so playing. What's going on here?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, no, I'm glad you guys got Bill out because the Denver show was interesting because he was texting me. He Was like, what are you doing? And that was always back to, like, the Van Pelt stuff. Van Pelt never wanted to go anywhere. He just wanted to know what everyone was doing at any moment. So, especially when I was younger, like, if I rolled into a town, like, I was going to meet up with friends and it was just understood. And he would be like, are you going out? I'd be like, yes. Like, where are you going? I'm going here. Oh, how late are you going to be there? Like, this late. Like, do you want to come with us? Yeah, I think so, but let me just get settled here first. Yeah, okay, no problem. Like, in the beginning, I would fall for it. And getting settled was telling buddies, yeah.

[Kyle]

Yeah, guess who we're getting tonight?

[Ceruti]

Van Pelt is ready to go.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And. And then it would be just. Then he would just go dark. And in the beginning, it would not. I don't know. I got over it pretty quickly, but I'd be upset. I'd be let down. I wanted to hang out with my friend, and he would just go, like, oh, you know. And then the next day, like, what happened? He'd be like, oh, you know, it's just. Was watching a movie. And then I would learn. I learned that he didn't ever want to go. He just wanted to know what you were doing.

[Kyle]

Just go through the motions. Don't think about it.

[Ceruti]

He wanted to be kept in the mix. He wanted to have options. Yeah, yeah. Just didn't want to have fomo.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Exactly. Or maybe he really wanted fomo. That was his high. Just constantly being updated. Ultimate weirdos on stuff, you know? Because then I would kind of downplay it, like, oh, he didn't really miss much or whatever. And that was again, in the beginning when I didn't understand. And then later on, I would go, oh, it was last night. It's one of the best nights ever had. Like, I wouldn't downplay it. I would. I would upplay it. But Bill in Denver, because I have all those friends there, and so they're literally across the street. And he was. He was kind of like, well, what are you going to do? Are you going to go there? Are you going to. Like, what's your plan? Like? And I went, I'm going across the street, and you are welcome to join. So either go or don't. Like, go. But if you don't want to, this will be the last communication.

[Ceruti]

Yep. There will be no more further updates.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right, Right. And guess what? There we go. And everybody got full. Bill. And now he's on a text thread with one of my friends, which I think is one of the most impossible. Like, I try to remind people of. Like, this is a major, major accomplishment. Yeah, you're on a text thread with Bill because Bill liked you that much. And my friend sends some horrible texts and I get worried. I'm like, this is one of these.

[Ceruti]

Ones is going to be the last one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, this one could go dark pretty soon. Kyle, you said something about jury duty. Did I hear that in the distance?

[Kyle]

Yeah. A little bit of life advice here. I. I missed jury duty. I guess I missed a summons. But even though last year, I think. Did you miss it if you didn't know, I knew. But last year, I think it was either last year or two years ago. Ceruti was involved. Cause he's my manager and I just told him, like, hey, might have jury duty today. I check in every day at like 8:30 and I'm like, this might just blow up the whole schedule. We got to have people on standby. Real hassle when you're dealing with a guy like Bill. Even Ryan, you know, big shows. It would suck if just we had to pivot last minute. So I did that every day. And every day they didn't need me. And I was like, good. This was an inconvenience. And I think it resets, right? You should be good for a while. It's like a tetanus shot. I don't know if it's 10 years. You're good for a while, but. So that was stressful. And then I get something right before I. Like two weeks before this trip that we just took, and it was just like, jury duty summons. And I was like, that can't be right. I didn't do it. And I came home, checked the mail, and it's just this card with red lettering telling me I screwed up. And if I. We expect response immediately upon receiving this, you could be charged up to $1,500. I don't respond well to threats. I don't really know what to do here.

[Ceruti]

I appreciate you putting me in a corner.

[Kyle]

I thought I was good. This was a large inconvenience. I stressed every single day for a week about this. I would think that I should go back to the bottom of the list. Do you guys know anything about this?

[Ceruti]

I don't think the last. I don't know the last time I even got summoned for jury duty, I did have to sit in once. I had to go in and they told me to go home. And that was like the only day I had to do it, but that felt like it was, like, 10 years ago. So maybe I'm just, like, off the grid right now. I don't know. They don't know where I'm at.

[Kyle]

I keep moving.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So they don't know.

[Kyle]

Let me hop on. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is a big pool of people to choose from. How's my name? Coming up again?

[Ceruti]

They just know that you're a real trustworthy person. Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. They've heard life advice. Like, that guy has. I like the cut of his jib. So I had it when I was in college, and I was getting summons from home, and so that was kind of a weird Martha's Vineyard thing. And I. I think my father was just like, hey, the guy is in college. Like, he. He doesn't have a car. Yeah, it was when I didn't have a car, when I was there. Like, I don't know the first couple years. And then I did get it in Boston. And I remember when I walked in, they, like, started. They started up Ms. Stout. Fire on VHS in the room. Keep you busy as we were waiting. And they were like, you guys are.

[Ceruti]

Gonna treat for you guys here.

[Kyle]

Damn it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And I was like, I can't do. I can't do Mrs. Doubtfire in these. These C minus subs. So I. I went to the. What is it? The bailiff? I don't know. And I was like, hey, can I run out to my car and grab a book? He goes, no, you can't leave the premises. I was like, I'm just grabbing a book. I was like, is there any.

[Kyle]

Am I on trial here? What the fuck?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. He's like, we can't let you leave. And I go, my car is right in the front. He goes, all right, fine. And he was. I wasn't like. I just kind of couldn't understand. I was like, exactly like, am I a prisoner? So I was like, can I just, you know, get the book? I think I asked the second time. And he's like, fine, I'll just walk out there with you. And he walked with me to the car to watch it. Wow. Yeah.

[Kyle]

He's probably seen a lot of runners who's just like, nope, I can't do this.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Yeah. And then, I don't know, 10 pages in, somebody came in and they go. They settled. So you guys are free to go. So that was it. I had a high school teacher that was really upset that he had never been asked, never really wanted to do a civic Duty.

[Kyle]

It's nice to be asked. Like, Scott, right? Scott liked to be asked. He doesn't want to go.

[Ceruti]

It is kind of cool, like this.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Teacher all that much. And it, like, he just. He kind of, like, epitomized, like, the OG of. Of some of the things that you may not like from dudes today. But he was older. He was like an older man, maybe the OG Soy boy. So he just. He spent half a class. I remember just being so upset because I think we had, you know, one of those dudes who was too old to be in the class. In the class. And he was. He was gone because he was in jury duty while he was a high school student. And he's like, oh, lucky, lucky bastard. You know? We're like, what? He goes, yeah. He goes, I've never been asked. I've never been asked to be on jury duty. And he was just so incredibly upset about the whole thing. So whatever.

[Ceruti]

Quick, quick aside, though. Speaking of Mrs. Doubtfire, this came up in the friend group recently. Probably within the last year or so, one of my buddies let it slip that he has dude looks like a Lady on his workout playlist, which was literally the most insane thing I've ever heard. What do you mean?

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's great.

[Ceruti]

That's insane.

[Kyle]

I think I discovered this song in, like, the late 2000s, and I was like, this is incred. It sounds great. I know it's weird when you parse through the lyrics, but, I mean, how much of a microscope do you want to look at everything with? I think it's. I think it's a good vibe song. It sounds.

[Ceruti]

You're saying you're doing curls or you're doing lap pull downs. And dude looks like a lady comes on and you're like, yeah, dude.

[Kyle]

Like, it might have been on my MP3 player at Golds. I don't know.

[Ceruti]

I'm not saying it's not a fun song. It's just insane. A Jim playlist song is absolutely nuts.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is like a 4:1.

[Ceruti]

Like, this is the Five Buddies. It was a 4:1 landslide. Like, you're insane. But I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess Kyle's. Kyle's on my guy's side. Shout out to my friend Jeremy.

[Kyle]

There would have been 4:2. I'll tell you that. If I was in that group.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think that's insane.

[Ceruti]

Okay?

[Ryan Rosillo]

And I was around for it, you know, that was off a permanent vacation, which had just a run of bangers, which got people really excited for Pump just two years later.

[Ceruti]

See, I'm not a big Aerosmith guy. I never really got an Aerosmith when I was 12.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I really liked him.

[Ceruti]

And then, you know, there was the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Kind of phased out of that a little bit.

[Ceruti]

What's. There was the song from Armageddon. You know, that was like. I remember that was like part of my youth. I just remember that being like a really dramatic song. What was it? I forget what. Don't want to miss a thing. Right? I was like, oh. And then. Then like you get older and you're like, oh, Dream Mountain's kind of cool. But yeah, I don't know. Not. Never really got into Aerosmith the way I did. Like a lot of other bands. Like older bands, I guess.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Ceruti]

Music like a Lady is insane.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They kept going. I mean, they just. They just kept going. I think Armageddon, that soundtrack released every single song. I think I've said that before. Okay, we haven't done one question, so let's get to a couple Josh Allen writes in and this is one of the rare times you can use the name of the emailer because this question is about his name. No need to censor anything. I'm not worried about anyone recognizing me from this. Let's Skip the gym. Stats 63210 NBA Comp Luke Longley Not Australian, but I spend a lot of time in the post setting up teammates, grabbing boards, getting put backs. I'm all about getting the flashier players, letting the flashier players steal the spotlight. Here's my situation. I unfortunately share a name with a famous NFL QB who happens to play play for the Bills. I know Josh Allen is just a combo of two pretty common names, but I've never really had to deal with sharing my name with a very famous person until the last few years. I work in a client facing role in commercial insurance, not sales, but I meet new clients and prospects frequently and especially during football season. I'm forced to endure the same dumb jokes over and over on conference calls and in meetings. I get hit with lines like better help insert client win his fantasy matchup or Nice game on Sunday. Josh. It's like they think they're the first person to think of this joke every time. Ryan, I feel for you. You know what it's like when people think the first to point out your you spell your name with an e. I know. It happened again last week. I've tried playing along. I'll say something like yeah, maybe I should track down where he banks and make a withdrawal. But honestly, I just get more annoyed Each time. Once in a client meeting, I introduce myself as Josh Allen, but when I'm Q being, I'll be helping you with risk management. Crickets.

[Kyle]

You don't make the joke. I make the joke.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Clever girl. And deservedly so. It was a terrible dumbass joke made just to cut other dumbass jokes off at the pass. I'm 42 years old. I was Josh Allen first. Why should I change my name? Michael Bolton. He's the one that sucks, right? This is my name, damn it. I'm not changing it because some dude from Fresno happens to be good at throwing a football. So my question, what's the best way to handle this? How do I respond to the next jackass who thinks of the first to spot the obvious? Man, he doesn't want to be.

[Kyle]

He doesn't want to be Josh B. Allen.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Kyle]

That's what he's saying. He's not going the Michael B. Jordan route.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I don't think he's going to do a Josh B. Allen.

[Kyle]

Okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because that would.

[Ceruti]

He thinks. He thinks the Josh Allen should do the Josh B. Allen because he was Josh Allen first.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, that's not going to happen. And he's going to be really good for a long time because he's young.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So this isn't going to get better anytime soon. And I do, like, what the emailer said here is that if you make the joke first or if you do anything, like, the other person feels like you're the asshole. Like, that's one where there is a massive disconnect from the person that was like, oh, I had this really cool, like, funny thing you're gonna say. Or if you're just annoyed and you relay your annoyance to Open Mic Guy, then Open Mic Guy is like, little sensitive, huh? You know, and it's just. It's so incredibly frustrating if you go the aggressive path on this one. So I think you need to come up. You're going to get a lot of practice with these comebacks, man. You're going to get a lot of practice because this is going to go on for years and years. I think this is just like anything, a new skill that you're going to have to learn. You're going to have to hone your craft, shave off the rough edges, and in a couple years, you're going to have incredible jokes, great comebacks, funny things to say as you prepare for it happening all the time. You could just say you're the defensive end. Maybe that works.

[Ceruti]

Didn't he change his name, though? Did he I think he changed his name. Yeah. Let me look this up.

[Kyle]

No way.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What if you just played dumb like my buddy Blasco, who whenever there was any kind of confrontation, he would just ask what? Over and over and over again. What? What?

[Ceruti]

Yeah, here he goes. His name is Josh Hines Allen. So he just named another name?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Ceruti]

So maybe that's what you got to do. The hyphen thing is in now.

[Kyle]

Well, he said he's not changing anything. He's not doing it. He was born first. Yeah, I like that. I think I would laugh.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I would laugh way harder if this guy introduced himself as Josh B. Allen after I met him two years ago. That would be great.

[Ceruti]

Whoever gets it, gets it.

[Kyle]

Yeah, right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

J.B. allen. I would just go. Really got to you, huh? They broke you down.

[Kurt Goldsberry]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So, yeah. What. I mean, what would you do here, Kyle? What would be some of your comebacks? Can you think of any?

[Kyle]

I don't know.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You're. You're right.

[Kyle]

I mean, I got this weird thing with Luka Doncic, who's now in la, shout out to him. I was here first. I'm older. You know, the Luca jokes just start pouring in. And honestly, I could be compared to somebody way worse in the NBA, but some dudes just think there's a resemblance. And I. I'm not saying I'm struggling with it, but I don't have. That's a reach.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's a massive reach. And I don't think it's that big of a hassle.

[Kyle]

It's not a. It's not a hassle. I'm just saying it's something I've noticed. And now he's in la and we'll probably. It'll probably pick up a little bit, but I don't really have something good for that yet. I just say he looks like me. I'm older. That's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It. Must be a good looking guy.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Hey, listen, it could be. It's not. Nobody's could. Nobody's saying I look like shame it. You know, so that's. That's cool.

[Ceruti]

But that's a win, I think.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Landry getting dissed again.

[Kyle]

Come on, you're the guy who started it all.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But I said sham at face. I didn't say I don't have bad.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[Ceruti]

Well, that's a great connotation. But yeah.

[Kyle]

I think you. Ryan, you're right. You just got to sharpen this until it's just, you know, you're just quick on the draw with it and you're happy with how it sounds.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I don't know. I think, like, what he said, when I'm Q being your sales, you're going to be happy or whatever. Like, that's too bad. And you have a starting point and you just whittle it down until it's a absolute katana of a weapon. And I think that's the only answer here.

[Ceruti]

Yeah, it's. It's kind of that thing, like, if you take it too seriously and get too offended by it, like, that's kind of a. I don't know. That's a dick move. I don't. People aren't gonna like that. And you're gonna put people off. So is that kind of your goal here? Is it really that. Is it really worth being that annoyed that, like, a couple people here and there make a joke about this? Like, I don't know.

[Kyle]

I just think back to that Michael Jordan commercial where it's the old white guy who's. And the guy's waiting to pick him up at the airport with the Michael Jordan sign. He's like, ugh. I mean, there's a real sentiment there where it's just like, you know. But I mean, that's. People aren't confusing him. They're just like dudes at work being annoying. So I don't know. I like Ryan's idea.

[Ceruti]

It could be something way worse, too. Like, it could be, you know, it.

[Kyle]

Could be Wayne Gretzky or something. You know, it's like. It's not. It's not the Great.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I mean, nobody really gets named that anymore, but. Yeah. I don't think we did a very good job with that one.

[Ceruti]

No, I think you just gotta.

[Kyle]

I think there's. There's no good answer. Except for the one you had, Ryan. I just think that's what it is. If you're not going to hyphenate or put your middle initial in there, what.

[Ceruti]

Would be the worst athlete name to share? Trying to think.

[Kyle]

Richie Incognito?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No. I don't know.

[Ceruti]

Well, that would be a tough one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, he's cleared now.

[Kyle]

He's cleared now. Yeah, that's right.

[Ceruti]

Good for him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Dick poll. Okay. Got a lot of feedback on the Road. People had never read the Road before, have now read the Road. They understand why I hold it in such high regard. Some people were like, it's really depressing. Didn't need that. Sorry.

[Kyle]

Is that corresponding to the movie the Road? Because I did see that now in.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The book the Road, you want everyone to survive in the Movie. You're like, whatever.

[Kyle]

But it is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You have to.

[Kyle]

Based on the book, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just want to make sure it just didn't. It was a really hard thing, I think, for someone to capture in a film. So it was. Was something I. I went into a. Way too hot. Way too hot. Because granted the movie had already been out, it's like we didn't hear much about this incredible book. Probably my favorite book of fiction ever. So is it even possible to be served adequately going in with that kind of deal? Right? Like, I don't. I don't even think that's possible. All right, we need. We need another one here. Where.

[Ceruti]

I feel like one quickie here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, yeah. Do some work. We had a million people so mad at the Venmo guy. So if the Venmo guy's still listening to us after we said, what's wrong with you? Just so you know, like, no one has your back. Nobody.

[Ceruti]

I've had several people mention that to me, being like, that person's insane.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right, Right. Okay. Do we do a heavy one? No, I don't think we have enough time.

[Ceruti]

Let's do a quick one. We got a quick one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Well, the thing is, is the last batch. They're manifestos, so I was going through them this morning, and I'm just like, man, dudes are like. Some people be like, all right, I'll make this quick. It's like 80 paragraphs later. What? How do you. How long do you think these things are supposed to be? Okay, is my friend being used for a green card? This should be simple. 5, 10, 185. Pickup comp. Late career. Udonis Haslam. Not great. Big team, first guy. My friends like having me on the team, and everyone gets fired up when I rarely hit a. Three names have been changed. One of the core guys in our group, Nick, from college, recently started dating a girl, Katie, he met on the apps. Nick has always been a bit of a hopeless romantic, but unfortunately hasn't had a ton of luck in the dating world. So we found out that he met Katie. We were all super excited for him. The only problem is that Katie is an international student, recently graduated, and her school visa is going to expire towards the end of the year. When the group found out about this, we were bummed out for him because we assumed this would probably mean the relationship wouldn't last very long. Long as she's going to have to return to her home country. Or worse, doing. Yeah, doing the long distance after only dating, let alone knowing Each other for a couple months might not make a whole lot of sense. To my surprise, I found out that Nick has been slowly informing her friends of the past few weeks. He's planning to propose to Katie at the end of the month so that he could get married before visa expires so she could stay in the United States. All of the girls in the group are adamant that this is a. It's a bold font on adamant. Boys, bad idea. And the guys want to talk some sense in and beginning to reconsider. The guys are fairly split. Some agree with the girls. Few are indifferent with the stance. And if he really wants to do this, then. Then we should be supportive, even if we don't do it. Even if we wouldn't do it if we were him. So the question for you guys is, should we step in and try to convince him not to propose? If so, how hard do you think we should push? Is our guy Nick being used by Katie for a green card? A few things for context. Thank you. Nick has always been a fairly impulsive guy and has had many faces that he's gone in and out of over the years. That's not great. Most everyone. Let's see here. Most everyone in the group has talked to Nick about this in some capacity, but no one has ever really explicitly told him to do this. And in the general senses, Nick understands that this is a very quick, impossibly impulsive, but still wants to go through with it. Nick does seem happy, but when he talks about her, it doesn't seem like he's head over heels in love, but more of the mindset of, I'm happy enough and I'm sick of the dating scene, so why not get married? Well, here's a couple good reasons. Katie's a decent amount younger than nick. She's low 20s. And he and Nick. The rest of our group is around 30. Katie is Nick's first official girlfriend. They've only known each other since September and they plan to get married in the summer. If they go through with this. Yeah, Terrible, terrible idea across the board. Now, granted, if your boy Nick just isn't. You know, he might be embarrassed. He might be way more into her than you guys realize, but he's incredibly embarrassed about the whole dynamic of this stuff. On the surface, this is a bad idea across the board. I think it's terrible. I also, I gotta be honest. Like, did we know which country she was from? Does that play into the calculus here? It probably does. Maybe. Maybe it doesn't feel great to say. Yeah, but you know, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, who are you asking? Not like I would do this, but go ahead.

[Kyle]

You could frame it maybe as just like, hey, just want to make sure if you're, you know, love that you're happy. Just want to make sure that you've, you know, you're not leaving yourself exposed here and maybe get a little prenup together or something like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, yeah, does he have any money?

[Kyle]

And in that way you can just say your concerns. But it's like as long as you have the prenup. Because here's what I'm worried about. But as long as you have that good. I'm not, I'm not saying you're making a huge mistake and you just use that like helpful way of saying your concerns. But like, but if you get this, then, you know, I don't really see an issue. The other thing is like what's the, what's the new administrator like? Is the new administration have any new rules about this? Because I know they're doing some, they're certainly doing some intake stuff that's different. I wonder if there's like, I just, I don't know, maybe I think, I think really the best part, I just think the best thing would be like form it that you're, you know, don't do it. Hey, hey, great idea. But like make sure you're safe because otherwise I think it could, he might just turn it off to. The whole thing is like you're, you're a non supportive person. What, what does the Scientologist call those people? Suppressive people or something. You don't want to come off as a, I don't know, perfect. You don't want to come off as a suppressive person or something. So you just, you, you get what you got to say out through the guys of being helpful instead of being like, what are you fucking insane? Because that guy probably turns his ears off when you say that.

[Ceruti]

I think you can't tell him like, hey, you should not do this. But you know, you guys are out hanging out. Just be like, hey man, talking this through, like, you sure this is what you want to go with? Don't like make him seem like an, don't make him seem like an idiot because he's probably just going to push back on it. I mean the other thing is clearly like, this is a bad decision for like 95 of the population. But first, serious girlfriend, you guys are, you know, 30. I don't know, maybe he's just like I found somebody I like and it doesn't seem like he's killing it out there on the girl scene to begin with. So maybe this actually could be a good thing for our guy, you know? Anybody think of that?

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's screwed. He's screwed his first girlfriend at 30 years old. She's foreign. But that's a weird thing to begin with.

[Ceruti]

That means he's not a normal guy to begin with. So maybe this kind of thing would work for him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's hosed.

[Kyle]

Just send him a link from LegalZoom and just be like, here, boilerplate, prenup. There's my blessing. Just make sure you get that done.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He doesn't have anything. If he doesn't have any cash, then who cares? He might be fine.

[Kyle]

Well, the other thing is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You get the futon. Yeah.

[Kyle]

The other thing is it's like a five year rule, right? This has to stand for five years. She can't bounce and just be out and about.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Kyle]

I think there's a certain amount of time you have to stay married because I think that's one of the things.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They like service time in baseball.

[Ceruti]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. When is she arbitration eligible? Okay, that'll do it for us. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Oregon. Thanks to Steve. We now have video that corresponds for the podcast episode. So that's great. We're excited about that. You can also check us out on YouTube. Please subscribe. Ryan Rollo podcast from Ringer Spotify SA.