B (2:13)

I don't want to hear any excuses, Ryan. I expect you to. I expect you to stay swole. That is, that is one of your gifts that you've always done. Come on now.

A (2:19)

Don't worry about that. We'll be. We'll be right back to it. Hopefully we get out on the road. Are you doing any, like, are you gonna go to any games? Where are you with that? At this stage of your career? Do you still get out there?

B (2:31)

I mean, I might go very few, but, like, I don't know if you know this or not, but my wife, she has brain cancer. And so, like, we've been navigating this and like, she's starting to drive again, which is awesome. But, like, with our schedule, I think it's just really hard, man. Like, it's just gonna be difficult. And then. Listen, I got high school kids, man. Like, that's how you know you're getting old. But, like, I got a 17 year old that's playing on Friday nights and then my daughter's 15. And so, like, right now I think family's the priority. But you know as well as I do, like, I. This is going through my veins. Like, this stuff is so much fun to watch. And this kickoff is stupid. Like, like all the years you've done it, Ryan, I wonder, like, this is a playoffs. We get, we get playoffs in September, in August. Like, the first week of the season is going to be playoff matchups that you'll see teams that you're going to see at the end of the year, which is so cool. So definitely be following it. Probably sneak down the road to Athens a couple times and, and maybe get a few games and get right back.

A (3:24)

Yeah, maybe I'll see you for that Texas game. And how's your wife doing, by the way?

B (3:27)

She's doing great. She's doing great. It's definitely a, you know, it's as. When I broke my neck, like, it was me, you know, and it was my struggle and I was like, I could go and I could have a good attitude. It's a whole nother animal, man, when it's your baby doll and you don't have any control. And it was. So we've been a couple surgeries in, but she's. My kids have always thought like, I was the superhero because I played football and stuff. And she's showing like, no, like, that's the real superhero. And my kids are watching it 17 and 15 and being like, man, that's. That's how you face hard. Like, that's. That's what I want to be when I grow up. So it's been nothing but good things for her. And she's got. She chooses faith over fear every single time.

A (4:08)

And the kids are doing okay with that. I mean, that's got to Be welcome.

B (4:12)

To the real world, right? Like, I think that, you know, listen, we've talked about that as a family since we were younger. Like, how do we create hard, right? Because, Ryan, we've dealt with hard in our lives and difficult situations, and you want them to handle, you know, those things well, because it's coming. It's a matter of if, not when. And so they've had to grow up a little bit. And I'll never forget my son called me when I was on the road with my baby girl and we were doing basketball, and he was like, mommy. Mommy don't want to take her pills. And I was like, buddy, it's not an option. Like, mommy has to take her pills. And he was like, what do I do? And I was like, you got to tell her that you've got to do this. It's time to take your pills. And so, like, just stuff like that and having to cook and maybe do more around that. Shoot, man, I've grown up a lot. Like, I'll be honest. This is a bad thing to admit. I should admit this to a national audience. I didn't do laundry. I didn't even know how to do laundry. So, like, now having to do that and understanding how to cook and clean and stuff, like, it's definitely. It's definitely made all of us have to pick our game up and realize that mom does a lot more than we think.

A (5:15)

Yeah, man, you're one of the toughest guys I know, and it makes sense that you and your wife hit it off the way you did, because I can't imagine how tough that is, man. And like I said, yeah, maybe we'll. Maybe we'll link up and I'll get to see everybody when I. I'm planning on getting down to Athens for that one.

B (5:31)

Heck, yeah. Hit me up for sure. Let's talk some ball. Let's talk some great stuff.

A (5:36)

Okay. I want to start with Miami, and it's because I want to start with Beck, a quarterback that I would imagine you have a lot of insight on. And that was always my favorite thing about you on game day is you just said, hey, this is. This is how I feel like, I think you were one of the guys that were the least likely to have a blind allegiance to where you've played for. For a lot to do this job. And so, you know, Beck played 13 games last year, the Bama game. Huge numbers. He could have had even more interceptions. I think the huge numbers had to do with, hey, we're down huge. You just get to sling it all over the place. The Texas game, I don't think he was very good. The Ole Miss game, he wasn't very good. The rematch against Texas, he gets hurt. And so when you look at the numbers, you could look at some numbers that are declining significantly from two years ago to last year. Completion percentage, yards per attempt, the rating, and all that kind of stuff. So I've heard, like, no, there was more of a lingering injury before the surgery this past offseason. And this is somebody that was at the top of the mock drafts a year ago. And I don't want to be unfair, but I just. I don't know how we saw a guy that once. You saw his confidence early on at Georgia, you're like, okay, I get it now. I totally get all the hype to what we saw over the bulk of the season last year. The talent, the physicality, you'd imagine it's all still there. Like, what do you think of him now at Miami, in Miami's chances of winning the acc?

B (6:52)

That's such a great question because you put in context the. The perfect amount of information about what you saw a year ago. But here's what I'll say. I'll say go back the year before that, and you get the best glimpse of what Carson Beck can be and what he is. He can't play outside of schedule very well. That's not his strength. Like, his superpower is anticipation, you know, and in order for him to be great, you have to protect him. You have to run the football. Last year, that was the worst, worst rushing offense at Georgia since I was there. Like, since I was there. That's how long ago it's been. Since they were that bad and they asked him to do it, they asked him to create. It was a known passing situation almost all the time. And I think you saw him struggle. Now, you also saw him have some big moments and carry his team. And they still won the sec. And Georgia fans talk about being spoiled, man. Like, you won the sec, and you're like, God, that year stunk. Like, that was a terrible season. They still did pretty well inter Miami. Here's what I love about Miami. One of the best offensive lines in all of college football. We're not getting past three. Like, that's how good it is. So big physical unit, they're going to be able to run the football. So if he can get on board with his receivers and get on the same page, get some of that rhythm, get some of that timing, I feel like it's a Perfect spot. And you'll see the return of Carson Beck to the guy you saw a couple years ago because he doesn't have to try to do more than he's capable of doing. He's not that guy. He's just not. And, and that's okay. But he can really dissect you from the pocket. Week one, Miami, like, they've got a bunch of talent.

C (8:20)

They're hosting Notre Dame.

B (8:22)

Like, this is such a moment and a big field for, for Miami to go. Like, I can change the whole perception of my program. Like crystal ball we know can recruit. Can he go coach? Can he go get a big win in a big spot to start the season? And that could catapult Miami to being a playoff team.

A (8:40)

All right, that's a good pivot then to Georgia because we saw Gunner Stockton barely at all last year. I think there was like this juice to him once Beck went out, but I think sometimes it's a little overrated, you know, his actual impact in that game. Like maybe there was. There was kind of an emotional response to it. But I don't know him that well. You know, I know that he's a four star. I know that he's from Georgia. I know that he's been around for a million falls. I know Mike Bobo had said like we could have just figure out a way to have him dial down the fastball, which I thought was like a very telling thing of, yeah, he's got that, but we don't need it all the time. And that definitely happens with quarterbacks that haven't a lot had a lot of experience out there. So considering your connection to it, like, give us the. Give us the full breakdown of how you see Gunnar Stockton going into his first full year.

B (9:27)

If Gunnar Stockton's put in the same position as Carson Beck from a year ago, I don't think they'll have a lot of success. Now, again, one of the. One of the highest drop rates in the country. Georgia wide receivers couldn't run the football. Like, that's a lot of things that are working against you that work against Carson Beck. And here's what I'll tell you about his personality. Ryan, you would freaking love the dude. Like, you would absolutely love him if he was sitting next to us at a game, you wouldn't even know it. The most chill, flatline guy, drives a 1980 something Ford. Like just ordinary dude, but like, he's got a little bit of. He's got a little bit of something in him, a little fire in him when he competes That's a little bit different. And I'll never forget halftime of that Texas game, one of the tight ends for Georgia goes to Gunner Stockton and be like, if you believe in you as much as we believe in you, like, you're going to go out here and dominate this football game. And that's how everybody feels about Gunner Stockton and his personality. Like, great leader, great dude. Absolutely right about the fastball. Like, he, he has, he has a long wind up. He's not a tall guy. He's got, he's got really good, he's got good mobility. Not elite, but, but I'll say this, after watching Georgia a little bit, the receiving core goes from a C minus a year ago to at least this year a B plus. Like, and with, with upside. Like Branch from usc. Like, you watch him break, like, there's very few guys that you have to throw the football a couple steps before he breaks. He's one of those guys. He's so in and out, quick out of his break. Colby Young is a guy that last year when he played, he was Georgia's best receiver and it wasn't close. He was on pace for, you know, 12 to 15 touchdowns, kind of a deal. Big, strong, contested catch guy. Noah Thomas, both tight ends back with, with Delp and Lucky. So the supporting cast, the run game, if they're really, really good, it allows Gunner Stockton to be great if he has to carry the load consistently. I don't think this Georgia offense or this Georgia team will get where they want to get to.

A (11:20)

Who do you think wins the SEC then?

B (11:23)

I got Texas. I think Texas is roster, man. Like, if you're picking a roster and you go, I want the best defense in the country. Okay, check. I got Texas. You want continuity. I got both coordinators back. Like, I got a lot of guys I can trust. And has there been a bigger beneficiary of nil than the state of Texas? Texas. Texas Tech. Texas A and M. That money, that oil money's different, bro. Like, they go in their car and they, they open up that middle trunk. We find maybe a $20 bill that we left. They found, you know, a couple million, right? Like they've got the money to, to spend. And so I think Texas is reloaded at the, at good spots, at tight end, at wide receiver. And, and I think Arch is going to be really good because every Sarkeesian quarterback is good and, and you add his ability to run. Obviously the big showdown with Ohio State, we're going to learn a lot, but Texas and the experience and Then the defensive personnel at every line. The best defensive line in the country. Okay, Colin Simmons, best linebacker, Anthony Hill Jr. Best safety, Taft, like all of them are in Texas with a good scheme, a system that's coming back.

A (12:23)

So you're not worried about any of the drop off on the offensive personnel then?

B (12:27)

No, I don't think the offense, first of all, I don't think quarterback play was elite by any stretch. A year ago I thought it was manufactured. Well, um, now listen, I worry the most thing I'm worried about with Texas is the offensive line. Like 4/5 of those guys are gone. A top 15 pick obviously gone off the roster. But, but I do think, you know, you just go to Cal and get a better tight end. You go get receivers like in the transfer portal, they're fine. Wingos, a guy that can, that can jet, that can run. And again, the way they develop offense, I think they'll be just fine with that Texas offense because Sark, Sark's the one of the best in the business at that. And, and I think Arch is really, really good. And I think Arch brings the deep element to the offense that you didn't see a year ago and he's got the running ability. So to mix match those pieces will be fun. But the biggest key will be the offensive line. I'm not worried about the skill and I'm not worried about the quarterback.

A (13:18)

Yeah, I think Wingo is a stud. It was kind of easy to get lost in the Jeremiah Smith, Ryan Williams stuff, you know, where it's like, hey, Texas got a guy and he just had some vets ahead of him, you know, transfer bond and golden, you know, like there was just other guys that were going to be a priority. So his numbers are not eye popping from last year, but at least receiver wise, I think the Arch thing is going to be kind of funny for those that aren't paying like that much attention to it because I don't know how much people really got to see them last year. I would agree that the quarterback play from viewers, the expectation, it was just kind of flat, wasn't terrible. I mean they're in the playoff, they're somehow in that game with Ohio State, although it didn't feel like they were at Ohio State's level and then they have the turnover, you know, the final scores a little bit different with that one. And I did think it was interesting in that Georgia game the first time they played that it was like you could tell Sark and it was just, hey, we gotta maybe get Arch out There. Cause we can't block these guys. Is there a way that he gives us some kind of energy there? But Arch, in the limited time we've seen him, he is not afraid to take the deep shot. Now, I don't know if it's because of the. The teams he was going up against when he had a chance, other than that Georgia game where it's like, man, I'm just going to sling this thing. And the fact that, you know, I was reading some preview that was terrible this morning, and it was like, oh, his lineage. I mean, it was just bad. It was like an awful quote that didn't mean anything. It's like the quote was almost set up, as if the rest of us aren't reminded daily who his football family is. But I. I've always seen him going back to high school just because it paid more attention to him than some of these other recruits, is that he. He'll get out there and run. So I don't know if he's going to be a young guy that looks at a read that tucks it, which I don't know is sustainable over the course of a season. You know, is he going to default to that? Because I think a lot of young quarterbacks that have it in their game are like, well, I can still run it. I can run it all over the place. I think there's going to be a lot of people watching him closely for the first time, that if he. He's played like he has in the past and again, limited reps, he's. He's so much more athletic than what you would think. He's compared more to his grandfather than he would be to either the uncles here? Or is he going to be like a completely different, very contained, less wild version of a guy that was like, let me make the most of these possessions that I'm getting here, because I'm, you know, other than yours being her, I'm still behind him.

B (15:33)

Well, and I think it's fair to say that, like, if Arch was the answer and was elite last year, then why didn't he play over years? Like, because they were. They had a championship roster. So I think that's a. That's a legitimate thing. Here's what I saw from him. Talking about, like, reading and throwing the intermediate stuff. He wasn't great at it yet. Like, the timing and the rhythm, that obviously will get better in an. In an offseason.

C (15:54)

You can.

B (15:54)

You can improve on that. The deep ball and the touch is great, the running is good, and then there's so much screen and quick game in that Texas offense and so much stuff is. Is predetermined and easy by shifts in motions because of the job Sark does. I don't think it has to like, it has. It's that it's that season, Ryan, like we're going to get the Manning, Manning and everybody wants to get clicks and all that stuff. Like he was, he's a good quarterback. Should he be ahead of the Heisman, odds of club Nick and Nussmeier and some of those guys that we've already seen do it? I don't think so. I don't think he's proven anything to that element. But you do feel like with his mindset, his lineage, like you feel like he's going to improve and get better with his squad. And if he does and their quarterback play is just a notch higher than it was a year ago, they're a team that can win a national championship.

A (16:39)

Yeah, I like what you said about the intermediate throws too, because I think it was Jordan Rogers that had a clip up that I was looking at was like, look, I did a film breakdown and I'm not like, it wasn't great. And I think the fair thing is to say it was kind of a weird scenario of when he was going to play him when he wasn't, and then again those two earlier games against lesser competition. So I think the fair thing would be, I'm not looking at that and holding it against him. But to say that from what you saw last year, that it's like, oh my God, like, that's not accurate either. It's. It's who he was as a recruit. It was every single school wanting him. But I don't really know what to expect. I don't know what to expect. Even though I'll tell you this too.

B (17:20)

Brian, you'll like this. You like this story. I remember talking to an SEC school and I was like, so tell me, tell me about, tell me about Manning. Tell me about how good he is. Like, listen, he's a good player. He's not the top quarterback in this class. And I put. I wouldn't put him in the top four or five in this class. But here's what I'll say. When I get him or if I get him, the guys that follow because of the name and because, like. And it absolutely happened as soon as he went to Texas, man, five star Palooza wide receivers, running backs, people wanted to go and join him because of the name. So, like that, that carried weight and that's got Texas to help them reload and rebuild. And he sat and bide his time and that's good. But I like the way he talks, so I like his moxie. I like the way he runs. And this offense is going to be just fine. And he's going to be one of those guys that we're talking about week in and week out.

A (18:10)

I have like a lot of the stories, like one of the. I think I forget, so I shouldn't say the school, but it was another, like, just blue blood, the short list of five programs, you know, that had him in. And it was. It was just a monster program, but it was too small a place. And it was like, I actually can't be a college kid here. And that was a big, big part of the Texas decision. And I think it was really. You know, I don't know if that means he's going to be great on third and seven this weekend, but I thought it was a really nice perspective for somebody that's just been in the public eye a lot sooner than you would hope your kid would be that he knew. Well, I still would like to go somewhere where I'm not going to be, like, rushed in and I'm the only attraction in town. And I'm still. I'm sure it's still hard for him, but Austin made more sense for him, and I just always thought that that was a mature decision. Yeah. LSU at Clemson this weekend. So I think LSU loses this weekend. I don't know. You know, who knows? They've got seven right teams. It could be one of those deals where they lose the opener and everybody's going to get pissed because Kelly just keeps losing the openers. But then you're like, could that be a good thing if they lose the open? Because first of all, with this playoff scenario, nobody's going to be out, nobody's eliminated this weekend. They've got seven ranked teams in the schedule. I don't know if all seven of those teams will be ranked, but there's a really curious thing that's happening down at Baton Rouge with this group. So it's an offensive line unit last year that went into it being like, hey, that could be the best unit in all of college football. And they didn't play that way. Four of them ended up in the NFL, yet they were last in the SEC rushing the football. And now they're going up against the this D line combo. And woods and Parker, where, you know, you were talking about, well, they're front at least two players that are projected to be two of the top six picks at the worst, two of the top 10 picks in the draft or whatever. So there's an assumption that because LSU turned it over the offensive line, this is a problem in that matchup. But that line, despite the pedigree, didn't really play the way I think a lot of people expected them to play going into 24.

B (20:16)

No, I think they, they underperformed. But. But I do think what you said was spot on though. The balance, like when it's a known passing situation, as a defender, man, you know how easy it is to rush the passer. Like, but when you give me that opportunity to have balance and run the football and throw and I gotta guess a little bit and I can't just fire off the ball as fast as I want like you, you make your life harder. So Durham looked like he could run the football. They've got weapons. Nussmeyer, I think he's one of the, he's one of the most boomer bust guys I've ever seen. Like, just. That dude will throw it through a car wash, like right through a window, right, like, and just find a way to fit it in a tight spot. And then I'll make a really bad decision and do too much. You got to put him in a better position. And he has an old miss throw.

A (20:58)

I'm sorry, there's a throw in that old game where I like, I cannot believe he throw as he's getting hit.

B (21:05)

Right?

A (21:06)

Yeah.

B (21:06)

Like before he breaks. Like he, he does that stuff and he's got, he's got that swag to him. But you got to help. Hey, List. And I know Joe Burrow had Jamar Chase and all of those guys and all those weapons, but they ran the football to create balance. And that's what made Joe Burrow and that offense impossible to stop. So they have to have something. If I'm an LSU fan, I'm looking at two things in this season. Ryan, I used to be called dbu, for God's sakes. Like, I was in the conversation with the best defensive backs every single year, year in and year out. They ain't stopped the nosebleed the last couple years, man. Like every game is a shootout. Like, they've been able to score the football, but they've been not been able to stop people consistently again. Transfer, transfer, transfer, new five star cornerback. That's one of the best in the country. Like that has to get better. They have to be more physical and they have to close games. Like plenty of opportunities in Games to win and they have not made play, especially early in the season that we've seen time and time again, whether it's Florida State, whether it's usc like those moments because, because Brian Kelly, I know he's won a lot of games, but, but the last three coaches at lsu, there's a standard, right? They've all won national championships, even at o. Even less Miles and obviously Saban built it. So LSU is going to be an interesting team to watch. But going to Death Valley and Brian Kelly called it Death Valley Jr. By the way. Going to Death Valley Jr. That crowd with an offensive line that's breaking in, a bunch of new, new dudes against two of the best linemen in the country. Like if you don't have balance, you might as well go ahead and not, not ride the bus over.

A (22:39)

How good are those two dudes from Clemson?

B (22:42)

So good. I mean, just disruptor. And how about you have a big guy in the middle like woods that he's, he's disruptive. You played him on the edge. Like he could play on the edge a year ago because the pass rush, you know, needed it. He can be inside, he can be out. You got Parker, like both of those two cats, man, they, they just, they have the ability to play the run. They have the ability to be disruptive, play the pass like just. And then, and then. That's not it though. Here's the thing. When you saw Clemson have their heyday, they had defensive linemen, right? We could go through Dexter Lawrence and call Colin Farrell and all the Christian Wilkins, right? All of those guys like that, they had all those years. They also had corners. Terrell in the back end, he's a first round pick. Like Sammy Brown in the middle is, is going to be a first round type pipet picket linebacker. Like they've got speed. When I watched Clemson a year ago, Ryan, I saw a bunch of dud, but, but I did not see the right scheme all of the time. Making the change to Tom Allen. There is no better fit in all of college football than Allen with Clemson. Like he fits to them like a glove. They talked about bringing in Knowles from. Jim Knowles from Ohio State, but like Allen was a great fit for Clemson. That's their kind of a guy. That's why they brought him in. And I expect that defense to immediately turn around because I didn't think it was talented.

A (23:59)

Go back to your playing days then. What you mentioned it. You know, when you're talking about like going up against lsu, who was the hardest to deal with, you Know, and maybe these coaches aren't even, aren't even, you know, on the sidelines on a Saturday anymore. But, like, the stuff that you found the most challenging, whether it's a story about a quarterback or it's a play call or somebody that you were going up against where it's like, damn, like, I know I can beat my guy, but I. I feel like I'm more confused. Confused because you're right. When you're not confused, you're not thinking. You're just quicker.

B (24:29)

Now you play. You play so much faster when you have a good grasp of what's going on in front of you. And that's. I'll go to Saban. When we played Saban at lsu, the ability to run and throw like the. Their offensive line becomes so much better because you don't know if it's a run, you don't know if it's a pass. So it just, it's all of those things. As, as an offense, as a defensive guy, there's. You always find tendencies. You always find squealers up front and guys that tell you something every time you watch a tape, if you study it long. I'll never forget I was in the NFL and I was watching this clip of Freeney and Mathis, remember, for the Colts. And I'm sitting there watching it and I put it. Ryan, I put it in slow motion 3,000 times and they kept moving before the ball was snapped against the Vikings. And I'm sitting there for hours. I'm like, they have something. What the heck is it? Like, what is the tell? Next thing I know, after a couple hours, I look up and I see the quarterback's hands. Every time his hands moved under center, the ball came right after every single time. And I was like, that's it. That's the squealer. So, like, that's the tendency. That's the thing I have to follow. Never forget, we're playing the Colts four weeks later on Monday Night Football. Carson Palmer, I was like, I'm Dwight Freeney in practice. This is my rookie year. I'm like, carson, if you don't flash your hand some and change that up, you're screwed, bro. Like, they're going to hit you in the back of the head a lot. First play, we draw them off sides. First play by using your hands. So, like, you find those tendencies, man, in a football game, that will absolutely help you become successful. And the crowd noise always helps. There was nothing better than being at home as a pass rusher, because on third Down. It's going bananas. It's a silent count, Ryan. So I know the count. I know the snap count every play. There is no downset.

C (26:13)

Hut.

B (26:13)

Hut. It's literally the same thing. Quarterback hands. Okay, 1, 1,000, 2, 1,000. The ball is going to come out. I get that little extra six inches, and I make a play.

A (26:23)

You, as a rookie, just because I've gotten to know you were like, you have this massive profile. You come in as a first rounder, but, like, I know you well enough that I don't think you were going to be like, all right, I'm just going to be quiet and just. Just like, did. Did people have a hard time with your energy and exuberance?

B (26:45)

Yes, man. And I didn't know how to control it yet, so it kind of sucked. Like, for me, if I could go back, obviously, I would do things better. We had an incident in the playoff game, and I'm going to try to be as vague as possible because this person is still very prevalent. But, like, we had a guy that was very upset at halftime of playing the Steelers, and he comes in the locker room and he's going bananas like it was with the Cincinnati Bengals. Hadn't got his touches. Was not happy, was upset.

A (27:13)

Probably not a fullback.

B (27:15)

No, definitely not a fullback. You can probably use your imagination to figure this one out. Like, coming in, going nuts. We're up at halftime. I'm a rookie, I'm playing, and he's going nuts. And I'm like. I'm sitting there and I'm going. I'm like, what are. What are we doing? Like, what the heck are we do. We're winning. We're winning a playoff game at halftime. This dude's going bananas because he ain't touched the football. And I'll never forget what happened. Like, he go. He's throwing his tone, a temper tantrum, going crazy, and coach tries to grab, and he pulls his hands off, and this dude accidentally slaps the coach in the face. Like, just kind of on accident across the grill. And I was like, oh, my gosh. But I was like, are we not winning? Literally, just. I'm an idiot. I was like, we're winning a playoff game and you're worried about that? Like, what are we doing here, dude? Like, we're trying to go win a Super Bowl. And it. It was not well received. It was not. It was not good. So you definitely learn, man, as a leader, you got to pick and choose your spots. And, hey, when you're a rookie. Shut up. When you're A freshman. Shut up. Fill your role. File into the leadership that's there. It's not your team. Like, that's not your job.

A (28:19)

Yeah, I could see that one coming. But I think the thing that would ultimately, like, work in your favor is anybody that got to know you would be like, hey, this is all coming from, like, a good place. This isn't somebody who's just pretending, hey, I have all this energy, and the energy's misplaced, and it's for the wrong reasons.

B (28:33)

You're like this, though. But you're like this, too.

C (28:35)

I think.

B (28:36)

I. I don't give a dang about being liked in life. Like, I'm about being respected. Like, I don't care if you like me. Some people don't like happy people. Some people don't like sad people. Some people don't like rich people. Some people don't like poor people. And then some people just don't like people. I mean, you know those people. If you don't know them, you're probably one of them, obviously. So, like, it's gonna happen. So, like, commanding respect and, like, doing your job at a high level consistently, that's all you can worry about or care about. And I don't care if you like me.

A (29:00)

Let's talk some big ten then. Speaking of the heartland, do you like Aller?

B (29:08)

I do. I like Aller now. I don't like Aller. Throwing the ball 35 times a game. That's not what I would want Aller to do. But I think big, strong, has the arm. I think the biggest growth he took, the biggest jump he took a year ago was Aller was ability to scramble and get out of troubled situations. Like, it was really impressive to watch him because he's so huge. I mean, he's. He's £235, big boy. But he would break tackles, he would make people miss in the pocket, go get a first down. Another possession. I think Colton Ecki was huge for him. Just giving him a thought process. His deep ball is one of the best in the country. He attacks the seams as well as anybody in the country. I mean, he just. He's got a. He's got a big arm now. He's got to continue to learn to go through his progressions and check the football down and sometimes make the easy play. But I think another year of experience with all the guys he has back with Coltonecki. I expect a big jump in Drew Aller this year.

C (30:05)

Yeah.

A (30:06)

This is interesting because you brought up the pass attempt thing, and, you know Again, I don't know. None of us have liked the receiver group out of Penn State now for a while. So Aller hasn't played, I think with any receiver that's actually gone for over 800 yards the entire time he's there. And they bring in three more transfers. Like, let's see, know last year when you were looking at the transfer, the receiver, it's like you're this excited about this guy. And so now there's like three and we go, okay, you know, like there's something else to work with here because they just haven't been able to get that position right the last couple years. And because Warren was such a stud too, like the stuff that he would make up for with the lack of just explosiveness and, and you know, you just need like, especially these college kids, it's like, can I get one guy that gets separation? So when I look at the pass attempt thing, it's funny because we're talking about some of these guys, like number one pass attempts last year is McCord for cues, who threw it almost 600 times. I mean he's, he's almost like 70. Throws more than number two Nussmeier, to your point, couldn't run the football Club. Nick was fourth in attempts at 46. And then another guy, right? And then it's, guess what, It's Carson Beck, 12th last year in attempts at almost 450, couldn't run the football. I think the positive here, especially at the running back position here for Penn State, is you, you'd think, okay, even though Aller's throwing it a little bit more without these receivers, he's still behind like 30 something guys. They, they're likely because of their identity and everything else and that they know they're going to be a really good defensive team. They're likely going to be able to stop most of the teams that are on their schedule. I don't know if the receiver thing works out for him this year, but at least they're not as one dimensional as some of these other quarterbacks that, you know, a couple of these guys are going to end up doing the exact same thing this year because they just won't be able to figure out how to run the football. And I think we're in a state now with this game too where I'm all for not, hey, nine guys in the box. Let's establish our identity and run power. I and just smash into each other because like, I look at stuff like that, especially at the start of a football game and you're like it's just a waste of a play. Like there's nothing's going to happen there. Like all you did was smash into each other. But now it's veered into a way of like there's just some of these coordinators that do not care about balance at all. And you know, look, some of these guys are going to put up some huge passing numbers and I won't even know if they're any good. But at least Aller feels like on the more balanced approach to what they've done there with him last year.

B (32:24)

And I think there's a couple things you can bank on. Obviously the running backs you already mentioned. I think you can also bank on the offensive line. That's why, that's why if I'm. When I was deciding national championship, Penn State was absolutely in the mix. Like I had three teams that were in the mix. They were one of them because of the experience and the experience at the right spots. Like they've got really good guys coming back in leadership roles and guys that's going to touch the football consistently. When you have the ability to rotate backs and keep them healthy and keep them fresh, that's a big deal, obviously. But the offensive line, why was the offensive line so much better a year ago? It was better because of the system. The system. Now it protects their offensive line with the misdirection, with the shifts, with the motions. It's not as predictable, man. That's why that offense took a big leap forward even without a true number one wide receiver. So I think they'll bring in guys. I think, I think when I watch Pena from Pence from Syracuse, like he does a real good job of like he's crafty and knows how to run routes. So I think that will be very good for, for them. And then I think they bring in speed as well. So I think this Penn State offense is going to be really hard to deal with. The two headed monster, but the offensive line being so much better, all being returners. Like Penn State's going to be a national championship contender.

A (33:35)

Yeah. And the running backs just complimented each other like perfectly. You know, it's really some really nice two running back setups in the country and you just, you just hope they copy. You know, you just. I look, if you have two studs, you have two studs. But it's really nice when you feel like you have two different styles and Penn State has that. Do you have them then winning the Big Ten if they're on your list of three?

B (33:55)

I do I think Penn State's going to win the Big Ten. Now. I might be like Georgia, Alabama a couple of years ago, where they might lose in the regular season. I think they're going to lose in the regular season to. To Ohio State because they play at Ohio State. Like, that's a tough place to go on the road. But then you play them again in Indianapolis. Oregon has to come to them. Penn State schedules really, really good. I do. I think Penn State's going to win the Big Ten, and I think it's going to be a year of prove it. Because here's the thing. James Franklin, rightfully so, he deserves criticism. Like, his top five record is not great. But Ryan, there's also a difference. I'm a high school football coach now. You know how much better I am when I have better players. How many of those top five fights did he have better players? Like, not very often, almost never.

A (34:38)

You know, I mean, that was. Yeah.

B (34:40)

So that's not fair. Like, Right. That's. That's a part of it. But now they have the best one, two punch at coordinator in the country with Colton Ecki now and Jim Knowles. Last year, Ohio State had it with Chip Kelly and Jim Knowles. So I think James Franklin can recruit, can motivate, can do his thing. Both sides of the ball are taken care of. The schedule sets up great experience at the right spots.

A (35:00)

That.

B (35:00)

That leads to a winning formula and a winning season.

A (35:04)

I think the frustration for the Franklin record part of it is that, like. And it's kind of in the Ohio State thing that I've talked about before we had all this expansion. It's like, okay, you. The only team generally that's even close to your level would be Michigan when it's Right. Right. And so you're just. You're just like walking to 11 wins. Right. And Penn State and a different level. If they would get Michigan and Ohio State. And again, the schedules, I mean, with 18 teams in this conference, and you look through it like you can have an entirely different schedule experience, even though you're playing those nine conference games, which I've said far too many times, but I just don't feel like it's emphasized enough. So, like, oh, that conference is good. This conference is bad. It's coming. It's like, dude, they're playing in the same conference with a completely different conference. Like, it's. They're not. They're not. They're not doing the same thing. So.

B (35:49)

And they haven't had the qb. That's been their biggest weakness every Time it's like, oh, it's Sean Clifford, he's going to be good. Oh, it's, you know, the next guy. It's like, I'm looking for that guy. And now they have a guy that's going to be a first round pick at quarterback. Like, there's, there's no excuse.

A (36:02)

Yeah, there really is any excuse on the schedule. Part of it this year, it doesn't feel that way. And maybe that has been. Well, I can tell you, you know, the frustration in the past, it's like Penn State, like you maybe have the two teams that are on your level and then you win all these games and then nobody really wants to take you seriously. It's just like if there was another, you know, if there was more depth a couple years ago, but now with Oregon there. So clearly there's some really top tier talent in the Big Ten as far as like how many teams could you say are at least still in this national championship conversation? Maybe Oregon's getting too much credit because of the landing. And if you want to make it because of landing, like there's worse guys that you can give the benefit without the Dan Lanning. So I'm totally fine with people thinking that they're just going to roll it right over here again. But we'll see, we'll see. Because I, I like Aller a lot too. So you said the three teams that you were contemplating as your national championship were who again?

B (36:51)

Penn State. We just talked about Texas and then eventually I settled in on Clemson because of the, the person, the personality Dabo had when he won was, was never the ground and pound, which I don't know how good they're going to be able to run the football, which is going to be interesting to watch. But they got three, they got four receivers that are going to be drafted like dudes out wide. They got the quarterback stud, they got the two defensive lineman, their first round picks. They got the corner. That's what they had, man. That's exactly the recipe that they had. They don't need to have the ground. I'm very curious to watch Randle because I think he's like, nobody's talking about him at running back yet for, for Clemson, but this dude, man, Ryan, he's six four, he's 246 three six, four, two 40. He trans, he moved from receiver to running back. So in every formation we go as a defense, we hold up those signs, right? Like you hold those signs and you go, okay, they're in this personnel, you know, one receiver or one running back, one tight ends, 11 personnel. Well, now if you come out with him and you put him out wide like he's run the whole route through his last three years at wide receiver so he knows how to do. You're going to match him up with a linebacker, you're going to match him up with a safety. He's got good speed, like a really good trump card and a fun piece to, to utilize and move around like a Debo Samuel type of guy for, for their offense. So that's why I think Clemson set up, man, they finally went to the transfer portal. Ryan, we've been talking about that for years, right? Like, you can't lose 5 to 15 guys every year and not replace them. Like that doesn't work. Those numbers don't add up in any way, shape or form. So I don't think Dabo compromised at all. I think he was smart. Bringing Clemson type guys that you want on your roster, they were able to do that to add to their depth. And now I think, you know, it just makes them take that next step, the balance with this roster. And then in the acc, I think they're going to, they're going to, they're going to dominate, quite frankly. I think especially with their schedule.

A (38:42)

Okay, I didn't like doing this last, but ended up happening last. It's going to be tough for Arizona State now that everybody's aware of what's going on. There's a lot of teams, you go, hey, they were five and one in one score game. So you know the expectations, like, are they going to be that lucky again? But that team really turned it on. It'd be one thing if they just skated through this whole thing. And then, you know, Texas, it looked like early, it was like, okay, the fairy tales over here. And they get back into that game and I'll tell you, like, really watching Levitt as you started realizing, like, I gotta get a TV screen up here on Arizona State. Like, I didn't think I was gonna have to do this all season long. And now I get to start watching him. Whether it's the deep shot. I think he had eight passes at 50 more yards, tied for second best in FBS. There's a difference on scramble and just rushing yards from a quarterback. So if you're talking just scramble yards, Levitt is one of the, I think the five best from that stat last year I think he was actually second. But again, that stat can be a little weird. There that guy, there's just something about him and it's so much fun. And sure, they're going to be the hunted now. And I love this conference because I have no idea. And it feels like at least in August, you know, we're going to be wrong about this. But it's like, are they kind of seven deep? But you're not sure how much difference there is between one through seven. So it's going to be hard to replicate what they did, but at least that guy's back there with another year of seasoning.

B (40:02)

Well, the Big 12, 50%, almost 50% of their games last year were decided by seven points or less. Like, it's a freaking awesome watch every week. Like, so many really good teams. Do they have a great team consistently? No. Is Arizona State on their way? Absolutely. And Sam Levitt. And remember Ryan? They lost last year when he got hurt and he missed some time, so. And then they were without their best guy, Tyson, a receiver who was an absolute superstar in the playoff. And then, by the way, they score over 30 against Texas, who. I mean, Ohio State got a late sack, fumble, run it back to the house to get to 28. So, I mean, this was a. A team that was a problem. And Sam Levitt, man, that dude is tough. He's. He's got wiggle to him. He's got power, he's got speed. He can throw the football. And Dillingham was the. Was a great hire, A ridiculous hire. He's from Arizona State. That's where he wants to be. He's got that energy. Man, I don't think Arizona State's going anywhere. I think if you say that you're picking them to win the, to win the Big 12 every year for the next several years, like, I'm not going to complain because I think they're on that way. They bring back 17, 18 starters. They go to the transfer portal. Like, I think Arizona State's building something. It feels like Oregon with Lanning from a couple years ago. That's how much faith I have in what they're building to become a power in college football.

A (41:25)

I'm not going to tell you I'm super locked into the defensive projections for Arizona State on all of this. But, you know, when they're still, what, 40th and opponent's yards per play defensively last year, like, that's. That's one of those teams. You look at that story and you go, okay, well, how bad was that number? Like, actually, the number is a lot better than you would think. The Utah part of this is where it's like, man, Utah is Probably one of the first round picks you would have for like, I'll just give him the benefit of the doubt. That hasn't worked. The whole Cam rising situation with the injuries. Do we have new, not have them, do we have the next guy and all this kind of stuff. We know the old line is probably one of the best units in all of college football.

B (42:00)

I'm all in on Utah.

A (42:02)

It feels like. Yeah, I'm glad you said it because it feels kind of like Utah's dude will kind of remind everybody of what kind of program they have up there.

B (42:08)

I mean Kyle Whittingham, he's had two losing seasons. He's been there 400 years. Like this is not something that happens. So, like this doesn't happen. That's not who he is. And the injury bug obviously bit him, but their physicality. And then don't forget about Devin Dampier. They brought him in as a transfer and I'm telling you, you're going to see why really quickly. That dude is so fun to watch. Like, makes people miss, can run through them. He's, he'll be one of the most dynamic quarterbacks in all of college football. New offensive system, but I think they'll be able to be physical. I think they'll be able to eat the clock. They always play good defense, they always play good special teams. I think their schedule is pretty daggum good. A lot of the best competition coming to them. I think Utah is one of those teams that goes from five wins a year ago. Like I'm comfortable saying they're going to get to 10. Like they're going to be a college football type of a, a playoff team because they'll be great on both lines of scrimmage and, and Kyle Whittingham getting towards the end of his career. Like I, I, I've heard rumors for the last like year and a half about him stepping away and this, this might be his last squad and this might be his best that gets to get in the playoff and, and possibly win the Big 12.

A (43:14)

Just to give the Big 12 a little bit more love here. Anyone else that you like or is there someone you don't like? You know that at least is like, hey, I don't want some because that's a tough conference for me to like. I wouldn't feel comfortable going, actually. I think that team sucks. Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't know what I learned from Farmageddon, you know, other than Rocco. Rocco answers the bell, man.

B (43:35)

Man. I just, the Big 12, it's so good. Like, we. We could go down the list. I think there's. I think there's five legit contenders. I think Baylor's going to prove that against Auburn. Like, that's a. That's a first one. You get to watch. Like, Baylor's really good with Sawyer Robertson at the quarterback position. Like, he gives them a chance to run the football, to throw, to spread it around. But the quarterback play in the Big 12 is what's most impressive. We saw Avery Johnson, we saw Rocco Beck. Like, how about Jalen Daniels from. How about Jalen Daniels from. From Kansas? Like, that dude is as exciting as anybody. You watch him dance and throw and be tough. Like, he's really, really good. And you got tcu who's good. Like, you got Utah, who's good. But Texas Tech we haven't even mentioned. Right.

A (44:16)

I think Morton is. No one even talks about that kid.

B (44:19)

He's a baller like you. You would love that kid just to spend time with him, because he's going to. Yes, sir, you to death. Like, so. Docked out in. Locked in. They spent a lot of money. I've already got the injury bug, unfortunately, at running back that they spent a lot of money to get. To get him there. But. But I think they're absolutely going to be a contender. I think the Big 12 consistently is one of the best, you know, most competitive conference. That's absolutely not going to change because there's so many good teams, aside from like, four or five, that have completely flipped their roster, like Oklahoma State. What the heck do we expect? West Virginia, what do we expect, like, literally, Houston, what do you expect? Flipping the whole roster and trying to figure out kind of who they're going to be. But otherwise, all the games are competitive on politeness.

A (45:03)

Southern politeness I respect. Northern politeness concerns me. Maybe that's just the Yankee in me. If a young kid is really polite to me, I'll be like, all right, he's from Eastland, Texas. Okay, but if it's. And then we can get into this whole conversation about, is Texas the South? I'm reading a gunfighter book right now that tells you a lot of the Texas stuff is. Is from the South. So. Okay, we'll leave that for another. Another guest, another round. Yeah, but you're right.

B (45:30)

When I got to Ohio, bro, you. Exactly. I called him ma'. Am. And they're like, sir, I'm not old. And I was like, whoa. Like, I'm sorry. This is what we do. Especially the females. They're like, no, no, I'm not old. You don't call me ma'. Am. I was like, yes. Gotcha. Like, won't do it again. I'm sorry. Like, they definitely did not like that.

A (45:46)

A little bit more north.

C (45:49)

Yeah, right.

A (45:49)

We kind of were like, what's wrong with this guy? What you trying to get out of me? Hey, congrats on the NCAA football thing. Thanks for sharing the stuff about the family. At the beginning, I'll be thinking about you and I know Saturday will be a nice little distraction for us, so let's do it again. All right.

B (46:04)

Appreciate it, my friend. Thank you.

A (46:08)

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. When I get into something, I go deep. Like seeing how I can improve my sleep routine or finding a TV show that I can get lost in. Prime helps me find everything I need. Plus, offering fast free delivery. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession with wherever it goes. This may set a record for shout outs, so we'll see how this goes. You know him from MLB Network, you know him from NHL Network. You know him as one of my favorite co hosts back at espn. But he has a book out. It is called Cile. It is available wherever books are sold. It is out now and I love that it's north of 200 pages. 222 40. This thing isn't around. Adnan Vir is with us.

C (46:58)

Great to see you, Ryan, as always. You were a big influence on Cinephile. As a fellow voracious reader yourself and a writer, I'm glad you mentioned the length because I made a plea to myself that I would not go over 300 pages. The original fact, I think was around 280 and we chopped it down to 248.

A (47:16)

So sub publishers, by the way, they love first time authors. Sending them something with 300 pages because they're like, nobody wants to hear from anybody's first book for this much is sort of a rule that I've seen quite a bit.

C (47:28)

Yeah. So to me, I was like, if I can get under 250, which we did, 248. I was thrilled with that. And as you mentioned, Cinephile is really, it's a book, I think, for everyone because you've got interviews and a lot of it is interviews. So those will fly by De Niro, your buddy Miles Teller, Muras Ali, Billy Bob Thornton, you name it, essays. My thoughts obviously on Marty, but also Pacino, Giamatti, working the Oscars of Ben Lines and as I said, tales from the red carpet. So I appreciate coming onto your very popular podcast. I'm sure book sales will go through the roof. But more importantly, speaking of books, let's get to Ron Chernow and Twain. All the years that I lived in West Harper, Connecticut, people would come visit and I'd say, we got to go to the Mark Twain museum, number one attraction. You were born in Hartford. You know how popular Mark Twain is. I'm astonished. As many times as I went to the Mark Twain Museum, I was not aware of Mark Twain's predilection for young girls. Unbelievable interview, you and Ron Chernow. Especially when Ron tried to gloss over it. He said, you know, well, there was this issue with the women. You go, well, since you mentioned it, you might as well go into detail Ron. And then he goes into detail. Various women between the ages of 11 and 17, just Twain's girls just festooned across his home. That compound astonishing information. I don't think I could think of Mark Twain the same way every time I was like, oh, he's so funny, he's so witty. You went into detail about his financial mishaps. I was just in California visiting my wife's family in San Jose. We went to San Francisco and I said, you know the famous Mark Twain line, the coldest summer, the coldest winter I ever had was summer in San Francisco. And now I can't think of that line without thinking of Ron Chernow. So thanks for passing along that detail. I thought it was a great interview and you and him clearly bonded. I think he appreciated how much you loved his writing. As an author, nobody can appreciate that more than someone like yourself.

A (49:03)

Yeah, look, I'm a huge fan of his, like so many people are and I, his, his work is, it's incredibly thorough know, but I'll, I'll admit Twain, that book, I was getting depressed at the end of it, you know, it was so depressing that I kind of was like, hey, you're going down to the beach to read for an hour. What's, what's the problem? And I'd be holding this thousand page tome and I'd be like, oh, I gotta read about how fucking bummed out Mark Twain is to prepare for this interview. So do you think we need to at least go into a bit more depth and fairness to Twain? That Chernow pouring over all of the communication, that there was nothing sexual, there was nothing that was ever found to be like really up. It just was that it was really weird that he had a thing for being surrounded by young girls for these groups where he would read and they would write and they would read to him and he would send these letters, and they were. They're creepy. Yeah. So I'm not defending. Defending him, but I just think that the way you set it up, we needed to at least clarify that a little bit. That Chernow was pretty exhaustive in trying to find. Was there anything that would be looked at where you're like, what are you doing? And his wife was around for most of it before she had died. So. Yeah.

C (50:24)

I mean, you know, if you ever tackle biography, as you said, if you write a book about a topic as big as Mark Twain, you've got to do something different. So I'm sure when Ron found. He goes, hey, this is something different. And clearly it was something that I wasn't ready for. Also, speaking of.

A (50:36)

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Just to finish on Twain.

C (50:39)

Yeah.

A (50:39)

Because I'm reading. I'm just about to finish Lonesome Dove. Sure. Which is long. And it. Because I was traveling to Banff, which we can talk, Alberta, if we want to at some point.

B (50:50)

Please.

A (50:50)

I. I brought a new book with me because I knew I would finish Lonesome Dove, and then I would just have another huge book. And so I was like, I'm trying to just keep it to one book here. So I grabbed the Gunfighters that just came out by Brian Burrow. So it's just a history. How Texas made the west wild. Sorry to promote another book while we're promoting yours, but he has an excerpt of Twain talking about this famed gunfighter, where he is. You know, this is early Twain after leaving Hannibal. And you're reading Twain's description of the. Just awe of the gunfighter, the respect. And that's really the only thing that matters is, like, how many men you've killed. And yet Twain is educated enough to realize, like, how fucking stupid this whole concept is for how enamored the public is with the legendary killer in his town. And the writing is just impeccable. It's like the excerpt. I love the book by Burrow. And we'll have him on, I hope, at some point. But to have this Twain piece in there. And then I was like, oh, yeah, that's right. Like, because he's. He was this good of a writer on top of everything else. And it still holds up, too, like, to read it, you know, more than a century later. But now I feel like I'm defending a guy for having a bunch of young women over so let's just pivot into the next topic.

C (52:00)

So Craig Kilmer was a great guest on with you. I think it's so great you two have developed the friendship. Obviously somebody I deeply respect, admire, not only from being on SportsCenter, but the late Late Show. I love how deep Craig was going with you as far as the movie knowledge. He's dropping Three Days, the Condor, Sidney Pollock, and I'm like, and I was so happy you watched Casablanca and you enjoyed it. As you said, it was an eminently quotable movie. You thought it still held up all these years later. It's a remarkable piece of work.

A (52:23)

The action sequence at the end would be tough for some people.

C (52:26)

Right. But at least you appreciate the well worn cynicism of Bogart. And that final climactic scene I think still holds up. And that speech he gives to Bergman is as good as it gets. That is a script written by twins, as you know. And the Epstein's, I mean, they nailed it. And by the way, they didn't even know how it was going to end. They didn't know. Is she going to go with Laszlo, is she going to go with Bogey? And you know, that whole speech he gives from the Hill of Beans on. I think it's remarkable screenwriting.

A (52:47)

Yeah, great. I'm into it. I'm in Seven Samurai right now with the classics. This is sprinkling in a little bit of baseball. That Blue Jays game the other night, Are you kidding me?

C (52:59)

Well, one more. He, he didn't ask you. You told him you saw Lawrence of Arabia and then you didn't get to go into detail. He, he, he sprinted to the next topic. So I want to know, what did you think of Lawrence of Arabia?

A (53:08)

Well, it's such a massive undertaking and to think that they're like, hey, here's the idea for the movie and I haven't read anything, I haven't researched it. It's not like we're doing a rewatchables on it. Yeah, but the scale of it is incredible. But I also think that it's, it's cool, that Peter O. Tooles character, like they set him up to be this absolute rebel that's just not going to listen to anybody. But I think it's, it's pretty impressive that it felt like the whole point of it was sympathy towards a group that would have zero sympathy from some of the more developed parts of the world.

C (53:42)

Yeah. No one's ever feeling sorry for the Brits.

A (53:46)

No.

C (53:46)

Considering the.

A (53:47)

But you see what I mean, like he, he immediately Embraces the culture and really their point of view, which, you know, can be even unpopular in today's storytelling. Never mind over 50 years ago.

C (54:00)

I just thought the cinematography, the directing is. Yeah, if you watch it on a widescreen, like, forget about it. That, that shot of Omar Sharif coming out of the desert.

A (54:08)

Remarkable. Yeah, I have, I have more on the to do list, but let's. Maybe we'll put bam at the end of this. Let's talk about your book because first of all, I can't imagine how much fun you had reaching out to people to give you the blurb. I noticed I'm. I was never asked to give a blurb on a pre read.

C (54:26)

If Miles Teller said no, you were the next one. I'm like, I gotta get there.

A (54:30)

But how did Miles Teller say yes? Was it, was it an emphatic yes or was it like, I guess so?

C (54:35)

So I was stunned because I said, they go, you know, 15 to 20 people. And I said, I really don't want to do this. Like this is, you know, the best part of the book, as you know, is writing the book. I mean, because it was just an extension of doing the podcast rather than talking about I was writing it. The worst part of the book is prosecuting yourself like a two bit whore. That's the part nobody wants to do. And I said, I really don't want to have to bug people for blurbs and all this and that. And I said, well, you know, think of it when you can. So as always, as always, as always, the great, great Ben Lyons comes through. He goes, listen, here's a bunch of people. Just hit them up. So he sends me miles of cell. And I said, God, there's no way he's going to say, yeah, he doesn't even know who I am. Like, this is so nauseating to be even doing this. So I worked up the courage. I said, just keep it brief, for God's sakes. Hey, Miles, it's out of work. Not sure you remember me. Interviewed you a few years ago. ESPN celebrity softball, fellow Eagles fan. I wrote this book. I almost want to say, I know this is annoying to you, but please help me. If you could just contribute verb, it'd be awesome. I'm not kidding. Within an hour, no problem. Adding in, happy to help. I go, oh my God. Like I was so.

A (55:30)

Yeah, right. Shout out Miles Teller.

C (55:32)

And then, and then, so the mango people, the publisher goes, okay, you, we're going to reach out to them. Miles, can I get your email? Sends you the email. They reach out he didn't get back right away. So I go, okay, I'll do it again. Sorry to bug you, man. Just need a quick blurb. He writes back, goes, hey, ADN, just been on set, you know, 16 hour days. I'm like, no, I get it. So then I just listen, I'll. I'll do it for you. Because he goes, can you send me some more stuff? I'll do it for you. How about this? How about this? From one Eagles fan to another, buy this book. Go Birds. Miles is like, Love it. Like, great. Miles Teller, check mark. And we got the blurb. Josh D. Ben Lines goes, there's Josh D's number. I go, he's not going to know who I am. I interviewed the guy 10 years ago. Like, Josh. The same thing. I'm like, God, you know, I have to work up the courage to write this guy. Josh. It's Onion. You don't know who I am. I interviewed you 10 years ago. Ben Lines gave me your number. I raved about your movies. So I did use this. I raved about your movie Space, which I did do a great, great movie about Billy, which Josh Du Mel did. Ben Lines executive produced.

A (56:25)

Yeah, I went to the premiere of it.

C (56:26)

Exactly. So I raved your movies, too. You know what the hell it's called. Maybe you can help me out now, too. Spaceman. Immediate admiring. A big fan of yours. Happy to help, of course. Whatever you need. Same thing. Give the email. The mango doesn't get backed up. Now I got to call. I'm literally at the Humdingers, which is a bowling alley slash arcade with my kids, and I texted Josh, sorry to bother you. The Josh. I'm like, I have to leave my kids. I can't have a conversation with the movie star right now in the middle of Humdinger. As long as frenetic activity, we go outside. All right, tell me a little bit more about the book. Okay. There's no sports stuff. No, it's just movies. But our interview is in there. You talking about, you know, work with Pacino, Anthony Hopkins, the way you approach acting, sir. He's like, okay, no problem, dude. I'm going to say something later. Today, Josh Duhell sends a fabulous blurb. It's such a good. We had to put it on the back. It was so good. I always thought Adnan was an expert in sports, but after spending some time with him, he's one of the most knowledgeable fans of cinema that I've ever met. Loved this guy and loved this book. And I go, oh, my God, Josh Duhamel's in. So now we got to get the big one. I said, I got to get.

A (57:21)

That's a love you can't replicate, though, to still be in love 10 years later. We're never talking to each other. That's amazing.

C (57:26)

That's what I'm saying. The fact he said, big fan. You don't even know I am big fan, ears. I know exactly who we are. I'm like, all right, fair enough. So then the big one. I said, I got to get an academy award winner. And one thing about me is I will file things away. A couple years ago, J.K. simmons is throwing at the first pitch. And Harold Reynolds, my partner in crime on MLB tonight, half joking, somewhat serious, because how come Adnan is doing the interview? And they said, well, he saw J.K. was at a game, he reached out to the desk, and Simon Test got a hold of his people. He said, sure. Harold's like, man, I know J.K. simmons. I got the guy tickets to the Tigers. I know he's a big Tigers fan. Course Tigers in the World Series 06 filed that away. Two years later this summer, J.K. simmons came to MLB Network. I wasn't in that day. I text Harold. I'm like, hey, man, can you mind pass along JK's number? He's good. He didn't get it from me. I'm like, no problem. I text J.K. simmons. Deep breath. Sorry I missed it at MLB Network. Not sure you remember me. Interview ten years ago, celebrity softball. Writes back, of course, man. Happy to help. Whatever you need. So his blurb is on the COVID A wonderful book full of my favorite kinds of stories. J.K. simmons, Academy Award winning actor. I already love J.K. simmons, Ryan, but we got an Oscar winner on the COVID My eternal gratitude to J.K. simmons, Josh Dimel, Miles Teller, among others.

A (58:33)

From that last story, I wonder, is there any tension between the egos at MLB Network with you and Harold Reynolds? Why is Virk doing the interview?

C (58:43)

The other thing, as you know, is once you get the blurb, like, I. I just want to delete Miles's number. Like, I never want to speak to him again because I'm going to be too eager at some point. Like, I'm deleted, right? Because I'm going to take the kids to the Eagles game September 21st. Eagles, Rams. I'm going to te a picture of me and my kids are, oh, Miles, you just. Oh, my God. Cooper Dean, he just shut down puk. He's like, why are you texting me? Like, you you got what you needed. I helped you out. Let's move on. So I have to delete his number. Delete. Having said that, J.K. simmons and I are keeping up a correspondence because he is a legit Tigers fan. And I texted him a couple times. He texted back right away. So if. If you're into his thing, how good's Cole Keith looking? J.K. simmons will respond. So I'm keeping that number.

A (59:17)

I love that. Okay, so I've read a few chapters. Yeah. And I think we need to start with where I, you know, look, the book. You were smart to start it with the moonlight story. Because as I'm reading it, I'm thinking about you, and I know you, and probably, I don't know that there's anything that ever makes you nervous. You've been doing tv, you've been on air for such a long time, but there are those moments where you're like, okay, well, this is entirely different. So you're invited into the online coverage of the Academy Awards, which I have to imagine you never thought you were going to get, and next thing you know, you're gearing up for the Oscars.

B (59:52)

What do you say?

C (59:53)

I can't even help but laugh. I don't even know how that happened. It's so surreal. But I knew what happened. As always, it's Ben Lyons, and it was because of you. We did your show so much. Ben would listen. And then Ben DM me and said, hey, man, I love your work. We gotta hook up some time. I host this thing at the Oscars. We're gonna do it together. I'm like, okay. Like, I know who Ben is. Ben of his work. But I was like, all right. And then I couldn't believe it when Nick Khan called me. My agent at the time, of course now running wwe, also gave me a great blurb when Nick called and was like, you sitting down? I'm like, yeah. And he starts reading the letter. I'm like, this can't be happening. And it's full credit to Ben. As you described it, Ryan, I think sports fans understand it with college football. You know, the second screen experience. You're watching the game national championship on ESPN, but then ESPN2 is the coaches room or whatever. Similar thought process. You're watching the Academy Awards, which Jimmy Kimmel's hosting, But then on Oscar.com, facebook Live, it's me and Ben. Sofia Carson, who's now since by the way, performed at the Oscars, is a huge recording artist. Troy Gentile, who was on the Goldbergs, the four of us are backstage commenting on the action as it happens. So this actor just won the Oscar. We start talking about their filmography, et cetera, and going into details. So I never imagined what happened. Dude, when I think about it now, it's still surreal to me. I can still picture the red carpet. I'm so indebted to Ben. And as you pointed out, it wasn't just the Academy Awards. It was one of the most storied and or controversial Academy Awards ever. Like, we were there when the wrong name was ready. The wrong envelope was given to Faye Dunaway and Warren Bade, as we now know, which said Emma Stone, La La Land. It was the wrong envelope. The best picture was Moonlight. And then afterwards, after they're upstairs, understood the whole kerfuffle. We were as shocked as anybody. And that kind of became like my Oscar call because, you know, we all thought it was indeed La La Land. And then the floor director was kind of pointing to the camera. I just looked over again. We're commenting as the action's happening. Imagine you're talking about the college football national championship while you're watching the game. So I just looked over and I just saw the famous shot of the producer holding the card and going, wait, no, there's been some sort of mistake. Moonlight 1, best picture. And then you see Barry Jenkins ever reacting. And I was so happy for Barry because I had mentioned him on SportsCenter, the fact he's a huge sports guy, running back at Florida State. And then I had him on Cinephile and I saw him on the red carpet. I got a hold of his publicist, agent, etc. I said, we're going to meet. When I saw Barry on the red carpet, I said, I'm so happy for you, man. That was such a great interview back in November. He's like, oh, thanks so much. I said, listen, I think La La Land's going to win, but, like, I think you got a puncher's chance. And he's like, yeah, I hope so. And to fast forward a few hours, notice he Mood Light winning Best Picture was unbelievable. And the thing I was happiest about was we had Barry on later on Cinephile. And I said to him, did you at least get to hear my call? And he said, yeah, I went back to Florida State to be receiving awards, et cetera, and they played me your call. So I got to hear just how excited and how frantic you were. It was an unbelievable moment.

A (62:26)

So in that moment, and you're screaming, moonlight wins Best Picture. Moonlight won Best Picture. Yeah, best. And everybody thinks it's La La Land just because of the card. I'm glad because in the book, I don't know that I fully remembered everything with Warren Beatty just looking at Best Actress. Emma Stone had already won, but he just sees La La Land. So he's like, what's. You know, what am I supposed to do? Like, yeah, right. Pick something else. And then there was also another part of it, because I'd heard from people that were kind of in the industry after that because it was such a big deal. Yeah. That was the La La Land crew up there knowing they actually didn't win it by looking at the card and then went ahead and just did this. Wasn't there some other element of, like, they had to have known at some point or they. I don't know, maybe. Yeah.

C (63:08)

I don't know how they actually end up discovering until they saw the card. I think they go up there, they think they won, they start talking, they look down and go, this is the wrong envelope. Because the card. The envelope is Best Actress. So the card says Emma Stone, La La Land. They're going, this is not the right card. Like, this is the best act. Where's the other envelope? And then the envelope comes best. Oh, that's the one. Moonlight one. I mean, as you said, the cascade of emotions. Imagine being on either side of that. Like, if you're Barry Jenkins, if you're Mahershala Ali, if you're Jeremy Kleiner, you just won. But conversely, imagine you're Damien Chazelle. You just thought you won Best Director and Best Picture. No, sorry. Error.

A (63:43)

Speaking of emotions, you were paid. You actually, I love that you shared what you were paid for that. You're like, I got 4,000 in a clothing allowance. And then Ben Lyons said, 1. Buy it. You're going to be doing this the next 10 years. Yeah.

C (63:56)

The closing allowance, I think, was. I want to say they're 500 or $1,000. That I can't remember. 4G was for the. For the show. And I remember thinking, well, you know, I'll just. I'll just rent it. And you're right. Ben was like, dude, we're going to be doing this the next 10 years. Buy it. We did it one more year, and that was it. But the tuxedo still thankfully fits. I've worn it to the Baseball Writers association of America dinner. I've had other events. I could wear it, but it was not the 10 years I was hoping to get out of it when I bought it.

A (64:22)

I don't want to bring up, like something that's going to bum us all out here, but when you were out at espn, because ABC is also. The Academy Awards, like, it was all packaged together, Was there any way. Was there any way to keep that alive? Is there any chance that you get back to something that probably bothered you as much as everything that had happened?

C (64:44)

No, because I was already out prior to that because 2016 was the Oscars that we hosted. So that's February of 2017. We then did February of 2018 and then February of 2019. So, like, basically we were supposed to do it. We did it back to back years. And then I remember because it was around national championship time that I hadn't heard yet. And I checked with my agent and they said, they're not bringing you guys back. And then I called Ben and Ben goes, we're not back. And I said, why? He said, I don't know. I said, wait, two years ago we did this thing and we won an Emmy. It sounds like a made up Emmy. Like it's a technical Emmy. I don't actually have a. I can.

A (65:16)

See it right now.

C (65:17)

No, that's maybe frame only tonight for this.

A (65:19)

Sorry.

C (65:19)

It's okay. We got a piece of paper which just says, best use of interactive media within a social media contract. Something like. It sounds made up. And you go, and they gave me a certificate. Me and Ben both got frame service. You go, okay, thanks. I don't even know what that is. The next year, we got nominated, didn't win, and now you're telling me year three, we're out. They're like, yeah. So then I asked my.

A (65:38)

So it wasn't related to ESPN at all, even though it was under the same. The same umbrella. Okay, all right. I didn't know that.

C (65:44)

So you're three. And then we asked them why they go. They just want to go in a different direction. And as you know, and as Hubie Brown famously said, your whole life in broadcast, you go, here, good job, good job, good job. And then one day, you don't have a job. You go, I thought it was a good job. They'd never tell you why. I will say the people, I'd argue.

A (65:57)

Hubie's actually never heard that.

C (65:59)

Also perhaps a good point. But I remember, like, what do you want to get rid of me? But like, Ben's Hollywood royalty. I mean, his dad's a famous film critic. Jeffrey Lyons. Ben worked at E. News for over a decade. He's worked by 15 red carpets. If you go, okay, this Vert guy, we had him for a couple of years. We're done. I was astonished they didn't bring Ben back, but they didn't bring any of us back. Sophia Carson, as I mentioned, has now gone on to actually perform at the Oscars. So she's kind of busy. The people they replaced us with, I mean, if I had to guess right, I'd say they're significantly younger and cheaper. Like, I think they just got some people who are on TikTok and had them do it.

A (66:28)

Okay, all right, well, I'm glad we cleared that up for the Adnan Verk fans out there that may have never. I guess, look at. I'm, you know, one of your closest friends and I forgot the timeline of the entire event. So I read the Giamatti chapter and it's so you. Okay, because. And I'm even thinking back to the night. Like, you talk about walking across from Lowe's and like, are you freaking out? Like, does your wife have to tell you, hey, just try to be a 9? Like, don't be a 10? Because you get so excited. Like, your excitement isn't any sort of character flights. It's just you're so incredibly passionate about this and anybody that's ever listening or watching. But now when you're in this world and you're rubbing shoulders with all of these people, do you have to tell yourself to try or is it impossible? Is it impossible for you to control yourself?

C (67:27)

It's a great question. I think it's challenging because there's no finite amount of time that I'm being given. Like, if I'm interviewing Margot Robbie, I know I have 15 minutes. So no matter what happens, I've got 15 minutes. Whether or not I'm overly exuberant, overzealous, or whatever the case may be, I have my time allotted with Giamatti. This could be a 10 second interaction. Like, he might just blow me off. So.

A (67:50)

And this is your white whale, right? So explain the whole. Explain the whole thing.

C (67:54)

Right, So I. I would never had a guest say no at the last bit, with the exception of Paul Giamatti. Katie Mirvaldes, who does a phenomenal job, one of the talent reps at espn. This is when Billions was first coming out. We started the podcast in 2016, Me and the great Dan Stanck. And this was shortly thereafter. And she said, would you be interested in Paul Giamond? Oh my God, he's one of my favorite actors. She goes, great. And we were supposed to have him Friday at 4:30. And Stancy has other responsibilities. As do I. He had other things to do. But we both came in Friday after. We're sitting there in the studio, and he goes, I don't have a good feeling about this. I'm like, yeah, what do you mean? He's like, I'm like, dude, we've had De Niro. We've had Mark Wahlberg, had Kevin Hart. He's like, no, no, no. Friday at 4:30. And so sure enough, she's like, he's running 10 minutes late. He's running 10 minutes late. This is from the rep. And eventually, unfortunately, he can't. He can't do it. We're gonna have to reschedule.

A (68:36)

That's like the big short when the guys go from Brownfield Fun to meet at Chase, and they're like, 4:50, Friday meeting. We should have known.

C (68:45)

So Josh Drew, who's also one of our talent reps, he starts engaging G bodies people at first, politely, like, hey, when can we reschedule the. Like, he's not really sure. He's busy. And then I think Josh got a little abrasive. I remember the last response, but he kind of was like, well, you know, Adnan looks forward to telling the story on the podcast. And she was kind of like, I'm not sure what that's what. Yeah, I think. I mean, at that point, it was already done. And then she's like, well, I'm not really sure what that means. And we were trying to sort this out. Perhaps in the next picture we could do this. I'm like, well, that ship has sailed. So we were never able to get Giamatti. He was making the rounds for the Holdovers, which is a brilliant movie. I double checked with my buddy Josh Horowitz, friend of Ben Lyons. I said, are these Giamatti's reps? He's like, yep, emailed them, didn't hear back. So I'm like, I've never had a chance. And by the way, he's on, like, he's doing the rounds. He's on Mark Maron. He's on Josh's Body. He was on I even saw with Howard Stern, which is a great listen. Really, really funny. Listen to those guys. Chop it up. So I've never had the chance to meet him, talk to him. I've got all my notes. So at the Critics Choice Awards, which me, Ben and Josh went to, I'm there, you know, simply as a fan. I'm not working it. I'm just like, maybe I'll get 30 seconds with him. So we're chatting it up. And then Giamatti walks by. Ben's like, there he is. There's your guy. And he was, he was being taken somewhere by the publicity to go to some interviews or whatever. I'm like, all right. So I said, you know, I'm very casually waiting for the right moment to strike. And these guys are all very friendly. You know, Kieran Culkin walks by and I'm like, hey, man, love succession. Oh, thanks, buddy. Loved your speech making fun of Pedro Pascal. Oh, thanks, buddy. Like, those quick 10 second interactions are great. Seth Rogen walks by. Hey, fellow Canadian. Hey, what's up, man? Where are you from? Tom from Vancouver. Oh, can I get a picture? Of course you can. Like, those 10 seconds are very quick. Oddly enough, the one guy froze is probably one of the nicest guys in Hollywood, which is Henry Winkler. Because I love Arrested Development so much and I love that character plays a lawyer who's in love with transvestites. I was like, I don't know how I can say to Henry Winkler, I love your work on Arrested Development because they were just as happy days to him. So I remember Henry Winkler walk by Gene Farmer.

A (70:24)

Parmesan.

C (70:24)

Right, Gene. But also a great character. And so I remember Ben lines is like, Arnold Winkler is like the nicest guy. You should have no apprehensions about approaching him. Anyways, Giamani is being spoken to by a couple of people. And one of them is, if you think I'm aggressive, she's very excitable as she's talking to him. And I'm just waiting, kind of hopping for the right moment to just interject. And she's telling him how much she's into cartoons and stuff. And I can overhear Paul Giamatti saying, yeah, I actually want to be a cartoonist at one point too. That character I played, Harvey Pekar, American Splendor, in a lot of ways, not the character, but that lifestyle I liked. Like, I hope you're not an absolute like that guy. So waiting for the right moment. And then she says, I want to get a picture. So I go, I'll take it for you. She goes, sure, take the picture. So I swoop it in. Can you get one for me? I haven't even talked to Giamatti yet. I'm around the mike. I got a straight for you. He's like, okay, got the picture. And I said, paul, I've listened to you on all these podcasts. I start listening them. He's like, huh? And I said, the holdovers is great. And I love private parts. And you won't find a bigger fan of Sideways. And I said, but I got to tell you, the movie that nobody has asked you about, which I wish I could ask you about if I was interviewing you on my podcast, is the movie Barney's version. And he laughs, and he goes, that's a fucking great movie. I go, that's what I'm talking about. And he goes, nobody asks me about that movie. I said, I know. And I said, I'm Canadian. He goes, of course you're Canadian, because the movie is set in Montreal. He goes, the only people ever mentioned that movie to me are Canadians and Italians for some reason. He said, yeah, but that's a great movie, man. I said, God. I go, dustin Hoffman, so good with you playing your dad. And I said, I'll never forget your Golden Globe speech because you endeared yourself forever to all Canadians when you won the Golden Globe for Best Actor Comedy Musical. You went up there and you said, I want to thank the great people of Montreal, one of my favorite cities, and the wonderful people of Canada. And he goes, well, I meant it, dude. He goes, I love that city. I love that country. And you guys were awesome. So at that point, I've gotten my 30 seconds with him. How much more can I extract in this conversation? So I said, I've got one more for you that nobody ever talks about. I wish I could talk to him. I go, win, Win. And he goes, that's another fucking great movie.

A (72:09)

I know.

C (72:09)

Wrestling movie. You, Jeffrey Tambor, Bobby Cannavale. He goes, yeah, yeah, because I did that with McCarthy, Tom McCarthy, a film that you and I love. Sports Spotlight. And he goes, yeah. He goes, McCarthy was great. I love that script. It was a lot of fun. He goes, you know what, man? I really appreciate that you like these movies of mine, because, yeah, I don't really get to talk about them that much. And then we carried on for another minute or two, and then I said, hey, I'd love to have you on my podcast. He goes, yeah, we can talk Barney's version. And I said, is your publicist still their names? Which I said. And he goes, yeah, yeah, they're the ones. And as he walked away, I'm thinking, they've already said no to me again before. I'll try again. And they said no, but I still get to have my moment with him. He could not wait.

A (72:41)

You still didn't get him after all that?

C (72:43)

No. And I said to Josh and Ben, I said, should I say that I talked to Paul at the Critics Choice Awards. And he said to. And they go, yeah, you can say it. But they're not. I mean, for whatever reason, they weren't having it.

A (72:55)

Did Giamatti know that you worked for MLB Tonight or MLB Network? And then did you know?

C (73:00)

No. And I made sure not to mention that because I went to a very expensive event last year. Stephen Colbert hosted it. It was right around my birthday. So it was my birthday present to myself in Montclair, New Jersey, a Night with Paul Giamatti. And by the way, you mentioned my wife earlier. She does not understand my love and fascination of Giamatti. So I told her, hey, I went to this event, by the way, black tie, that's 250 a ticket. That thing was sold out. So if you think I'm the only guy that loves Paul, gmi people love this guy. Alexander Payne even said he goes, he's a movie star. Like, I know he's not what you think of as Denzel Washington, but Paul Giovanni is a movie star. People love Paul Giovanni. And he was awesome. Hour and a half of great stories, you name it. By the way, voracious reader like yourself, at one point, he used to read a book a day.

A (73:38)

He's ahead of my pace a bit.

C (73:40)

Yeah, he now reads about two or three books a week. Like, External was like, dude, you're a voracious reader. He's like, oh, yeah, he's. He said his place in Brooklyn, all this is just books. Like, his favorite thing to do is read, read, read. He goes, now I read mystery stuff and nonsense, but he's an avid reader. Anyways, I forgot my train of thought. But yeah, at that event.

B (73:56)

Well, still, that.

A (73:57)

It was still a no after all that. But I do like that you get into Giamanni, the star, because, I mean, this is a conversation for anybody that loves movies. I. I'm just. Look, I'm a huge fan of anyone that is told they can't be all of these things that then becomes the thing that everybody said that they couldn't do. So can you imagine Paul Giamatti in the beginning going to read? Right? And by the way, like, however you're casting a show, not everybody, you know, you're not casting the OC here. So you need somebody to look like a slob. And he played the slob forever. You point out in his book, he's sure, you know, it's not like he's not aware of the whole thing, but to then go, hey, he's going to be a leading man and it's going to be accepted.

C (74:42)

I agree. Payne said, he goes, you know, he's a leading man the way Edward G. Robinson was of a different era. Look at Edward G. Robinson. And Little Caesar played all those gate gangsters. Short, balding, like, we're not all going to look like matinee idols. They can't all be McConaughey. But I'm with you. I mean, I think Paul Giamatti is one of those great actors because as you're pointing out, he doesn't have the looks. So it's purely talent alone. And his versatility is unbelievable. As you know, I don't watch TV shows. You know, years ago, when you and I were growing up, people would say, what's the last movie you saw? What are you going to see this weekend? Now everyone says, what are you binging? You know what's on Netflix? I really don't know. I watch Criterion is the movie app I normally watch. I watch hbo, Max, but I don't watch these shows. But I will tell you, I stumbled across. I was bored one day. I don't know how the hell I was on Netflix. Blackbird. I got Wait, Paul G. Misk Bear and my cousin told me and I watched. That blew me away, right? Like one self contained episode of Black Mirror and you go, dude, Paul Giamatti is such an enormous talent. I'm glad that people recognize him and I'm glad you appreciate what a great actor he's as well.

A (75:36)

What was surprising about this process for you?

C (75:43)

It's been pretty straightforward, to be honest with you. I don't think anything. I mean, I suppose just how relatively easy it was. Like, the first thing, the first thing it says to everyone, goes, how hard is it to write a book? And I go, not very hard. My kids go to school, I sit my butt down. And as you know, it just takes discipline. Like, just write, you know, I mean, what I said, Write 700 words or lunch, whichever comes first. I never had a strict theory. Some days it'd be 500 page, 500 words. Some days it'd be a thousand. Some days it'd be cooking me 1500. Sometimes it was 250, wasn't very good. I go, man, we're just not very good today. Generally on the weekends, I'm too busy with the kids. I wouldn't write then. So generally it was Monday through Friday when they were at school. I had the time to myself. I would do it in the morning. I don't know about you, but I found writing when I was younger. I would write sometimes at night. Thought that would be more fun or enlivening, but it wasn't. I think the best time is once I got a little time to write it in the morning, write it fresh, and kind of go from there. And I wish I had a better answer for you. I really wasn't.

A (76:32)

That actually is the good answer, though, because everybody else seems miserable through the process. And you were like, yeah, it was pretty easy. It's fine. Totally fine. But when you read it, when I, you know, I haven't read the whole thing, as I said, but when I'm reading it, it's. It's different for me because I've known you this long. Yeah. But it did dawn on me, I'm like, this is probably as much fun as he's had doing anything. So he's not looking at his. This daily chore of, like, how do I find my voice? Because the voice has already existed.

B (76:59)

Right.

C (77:00)

It'd be like for you, if you were giving life advice, but rather than vocalizing it, you were just writing it. Like, it would just be second nature to you.

A (77:05)

Yeah. I don't know. I always feel like the audio version, you can let things fly a little bit more. When you actually see the word on a page and it's still there forever, like, you want it to have a little bit more staying power. You want it to have a little bit more meaning. So I don't know. I don't know if I would agree with that part of it. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, everybody has a different process that tries to do it. I usually just pick.

C (77:24)

I just pick.

A (77:25)

I pick. It's different. I mean, to me, writing a book was a lot harder than screenwriting. Like, it's not even close.

C (77:31)

You think writing the book is a lot harder.

A (77:33)

For me, it was. It was. It. But, you know, screenwriting is hard because even when you think you're done, you're kind of never done.

C (77:45)

Well, that's definitely true. My buddy rt, Who's a terrific director, you should all see his movie called 40 Acres. It stars Danielle Deadweiler. He shot it in Canada with premier at the film festival last year in Toronto. It was released in the US here he opened 4th of July weekend. How about that? Superman. At 4,000 theaters, 40 acres and 100 theaters. But his movie was released and he said to me, goes the hardest part to it. He goes, you make the movie and you edit it. And then it's. The jigsaw puzzle is maddening because you add one scene, then you take out one scene, then you ask A producer. I thought it was better with that scene. Maybe with the scene. The rewrite process is insane.

A (78:16)

Yeah, that's the thing too. It is a lot like Jenga because you go, hey, well we need to do this. It's like, yeah, but if I do this and he says this, that means that earlier than this doesn't mean anything. Or if we take out this, this thing that this guy said earlier now, it doesn't land anywhere. Like the whole reason I had him say this is that 20 pages later he's then doing this. So if we're getting rid of that, then that point, the scene we all really like is actually. So I think it has more to do with pilot stuff where once you get into a season on a show, it's just like, look, we gotta get a script done. So in a way the deadline and you have no choice where the open endedness of working on a pilot, it's kind of like, you know, tweak here, tweak there. So I probably. I know I like screenwriting a lot better than having to write a book.

C (78:58)

Yeah. I don't know, I just could picture you like in a cabin in Vermont, just pounding away, like, just chopping wood and then write the book. Like I think it'd be, I have that image of you.

A (79:06)

I do. I. I've thought about that image. Just take a year off from everything because I'm sure the podcast audience would be psyched. You just wait around like, yeah, you just pick it right up. You won't lose any momentum. And then what would be better than spending a month or a year in the woods and then having some Richard Brodigan type shit where you're not even, you're like, oh, this wasn't even that good. That would be, that would be pretty disappointing to take a year off for creative reasons. So let's. If I did get a cabin in the woods, I just got back from Calgary. I didn't go to Calgary, I went to Banff. But I'll tell you right now, I didn't spend any time in Calgary. But landing at Calgary, maybe taking that ride north to Edmonton for four hours would be something I do a little hockey road trip, maybe get a sponsorship for the podcast for it. I went to British Columbia last year, spent some time in Vancouver. Honestly, I think Vancouver is beautiful to look at. I think the city itself, pretty overrated. I then made my way north. Go ahead.

C (80:01)

I was gonna say, what is it about the city you find overrated? Because I'm with you on it.

A (80:05)

It's aesthetically pleasing, but it's aesthetically pleasing. There wasn't anything about the city that like, look, I did the whole waterfront area and walked all the way around over to that island and the history and all that kind of stuff and looped it back. Like, I walked forever the first day that I was in Vancouver just to kind of take it all in. Maybe I had hot too. High expectation. I think I went in a little too hot. You know, I think that was the issue. But ultimately it was just kind of a crowded, summer, touristy city that it didn't. You know, it is a little weird that there's a hand job place right next to the CVS right there. So you're like, man, there's another. Like the strip club deal they don't have. They need a zone. They need a zone for it. It needs to be a way.

C (80:50)

The element of sleaziness was permeating a little too much for you. Like a red light district specifically cordoned off. That's fair.

A (80:56)

North face. And then over here is what it's the appearance of. I like it. And look, it's not like I'm. Yeah, right, right, right. Like, I was so offended. It wasn't that I was offended. I was just kind of surprised by the whole thing. Anyway, made it to Squamish. Really? Like Squamish, small town. You only needed a couple days there. Whistler, beautiful little setup, great stuff. And then, honestly, Victoria was really kind of beat up by the time I made it to Victoria on the way back. And I really should have brought my car with me. I didn't want to take it over on the ferry. As a ferry vet, I should have known better, but I didn't want to deal with the logistics of getting back to Vancouver to the flight and worrying about getting the car back over on the ferry. So I went passenger ferry. So the whole point is, like, bring a car to Victoria. Don't do what I did. Because walking around the city of Victoria for a couple of days actually wasn't. Wasn't. Anyway, the whole reason I'm saying this is that there was so much of Whistler that I loved. When I got north of Whistler, I was checking out some of those towns. Loved it, loved it, the whole deal. Bamf an entirely different level. Now, if you want to tell me that Whistler, ski season, go bam with your friends, a group of people, party. You're right in the ski village. You stay right there. You're right on the mountain. You don't have to go anywhere. Logistically, it's super easy. That's great. But bam, the town is spectacular and you can't stop looking around in amazement that in every direction, as soon as you get on the highway you're like, all right, we're going to this lake, we're going to this river, we're going on this trail, we're heading over here. I went horseback riding, I did a fly fishing boat down the Bow River. Every time you give yourself just a minute to look around the scenery on top of Banff and then canmore, which is 20 minutes back towards Calgary. So I was in Canmore a bunch of the days as well. Found a gym over there because the facility at the hotel I was at wasn't all that great. I love Banff. I can say that. I know it's, you know, there's, I, I've checked a lot of the Instagram travel boxes over the years. I've done Positano, I've done Tulum, I've done some other places. I know Banff is, is on that list. It is worthy of any praise. One of my favorite places I've ever been.

C (82:56)

Oh, dude, that's awesome. I'm so happy to hear that. I'd never been until last year myself because with this new gig with Amazon, hopefully within year two, we're traveling for games Monday night within Canada. So the game in Calgary said so great. I'm gonna go see my buddy Cabby, one of my closest friends and I'm gonna go check out Banff. And when I landed there, you know, the game is obviously on Monday, flew in a Sunday. I'm talking to the one at the customs and I said, you know, I'm going to rent a car, just going to drive to Banff. And she's like, I wouldn't do that. I go, why? And she goes, how long are you going to be there for? I go, a few hours. I'm going to go visit my buddy for dinner and then I get a game tomorrow and I'm flying home Tuesday. And she said, you got to go for at least three days. And I said, I don't have that luxury. Like, I mean, I don't. If somebody said, hey, the Eiffel Tower is here, I've got two hours. Well, really, to do it properly, you need three days. But if I can get two hours of Eiffel Tower, I'll still take it. And she was like, so I'm texting my buddies, I always go on Calgary sports radio, shout out to the guys at 960 Logan Gordon, Pat Steinberg. And they're like, ignore the woman. Get in the car and go like, all right, 130 bucks, let's get in this car. And it was from Calgary, as you know, maybe hour and a half. Like it's a short drive and you.

A (83:56)

Got hour and a half. It's easy and it's beautiful.

C (83:58)

Yeah, Cameron, after an hour already, I was being taken aback. And then when I got there, I think it's 10 bucks to enter. And I just said, I've got literally two hours. Where do I go? And she told me the most picturesque place. And like you said, Ryan, it takes your breath away. I mean, when I went out, I'm sure when you've shown people these pictures, they think it's all cgi. They go, that can't possibly be real. That landscape, that pure, that gorgeous. And quite frankly, to be there for a few hours, that just wets the aptitude to go for longer. As you said, you were there, however you were there.

A (84:23)

I'm going back. Like I. It is rarely do I go a place where I'm like, okay, I'm absolutely coming back here. Saint Tropez would be on that list. I would likely go to New Zealand again. I don't know that anything will ever top Milford Sound as far as the visuals and the plane ride in and all that stuff. But Banff was at like, I was there five days and I still feel like there's all these other things. Like I didn't even make it up to the Fairmont, which is essentially. It looks like this castle built by the Scottish. And the original hotel had burned down a few times, but it's at the back end of the town. So you cross over this bridge and then you head up and you think like you can't believe you feel like you're in the Alps all of a sudden. And it's just non stop, whether it's moraine or the ink pots. I went fly fishing down the Bow River. I did. I'm not going to call out anybody here, but there was a mishap where I booked a fly fishing trip and I talked to one guy that said, hey, I'll need the deposit. And then I called the guy the next day and said, hey, can I give you the deposit? I'll pay for the whole thing. Like, I'm not going to burn you. And he was like, no, don't worry about it. He's like, you don't need to do it over the phone. You're good to go. And 8 o' clock tomorrow morning. But, you know, we're like an hour away. I was like, no problem. So, woke up out of the house, out of the hotel at like 6:45 and drive down to Bragg Creek, and there's no one there. And I call and he goes, I left you a voicemail last night. Said that. And I go, yeah, but the other guy said, we're good, no issues. He's like, I left you a voicemail. I go, dude, I'm in the mountains. There's no service anywhere. Why would the guy. I was like, I understand what you're saying, but why would the guy tell me I'm good when I offered to pay the entire amount yesterday? And he's like, well, he shouldn't have done that. And I went, okay. Okay. So, you know, I wasn't entirely blameless. But the thing is, is now I'm just driving around Alberta again.

C (86:17)

That's not what anyone's looking for, though. That's frustrating. I hate that. Travel adventures. When you get scammed, slash.

A (86:22)

But I didn't get scammed. It just. I ended up missing out on an opportunity. And then luckily, the guys over at Wapiti in Canmore hooked me up with a float, but I got out to Wade as well, so it wasn't. Sometimes when you do the fly fishing and you're just in the float the whole time, you never get to get out. It's not as much fun as, like, getting out and actually getting into the water a little bit. So I can't say enough good things about it. And I think I'd like to go in September when it's not in July and August, because the town part of it's just cranking. Made it to Pump and Tap, I think, which is their dive bar, British themed. I was like, do you take credit cards? No, cash only. And I was like, I think I only have American dollars. And they were like, look, we don't even do the conversion. If it's. If it's. If the bill is 10 bucks, it's 10 bucks American or Canadian. Really?

C (87:06)

Yeah, 30%. Wow.

A (87:08)

Okay.

C (87:08)

Yeah, right?

A (87:09)

She's the girl bartender. She's like, we just don't want to deal with any of the conversion stuff.

C (87:15)

What a surprise. It's benefiting you to the tone of 30 cents on the dollar. I would want to bother with that either. Great. Give me your American dollars.

A (87:23)

There was an atm and it was fine. And you know what? In classic Canadian fashion, I think the ATM fee was 295 inside of a bar. So that's that's incredible. Canadian hospitality only charge you $2.95 for an ATM transaction. How are. Look, I just. I know how much. Look, I know you're an Ontario guy. I don't know if you're going to have to start giving me some spots in Manitoba. Churchill's definitely on the list.

C (87:47)

I love you. Winnipeg. You and Churchill. Manitoba, that's next level by you. You know, the one America city everyone always loves is Regina. That's when people always. They go, God, tell me about Regina. I got. It's. It's awful. Like, it's got a funny name. That's it. Regina.

A (87:59)

What about Saskatoon?

C (88:00)

Saskatoon's okay. My cousin lives there. I've been there once. I was there for the Vania cup, which is the equivalent of the national championship for Canadian college football. It was late November and it was very cold. I can recommend the Bison. Burgers are excellent.

A (88:11)

What about Fort McMurray, Alberta?

C (88:14)

I've not been to Fort McMurray. I've heard of good things.

A (88:16)

You might like Fort McMurray, Fort Nelson. Are these active forts, not active ports?

C (88:22)

We're not. Although I'm curious how you felt. There's an American, considering tensions with our country's tariffs, did that come up at all?

A (88:28)

No, and I don't mean to. I'm just going to say it. Americans and that Canadian thing that was going on. We've moved on. Yeah. Americans probably don't even remember that there was this two or three week window where, you know, look, the hockey thing was going on. People were booing each other's anthems. Correct. We have more going on day to day in this country that I think we've turned the page onto the next thing that we're obsessed with like Shador Sanders right now. So I didn't. I didn't feel. I felt zero hospitality or. Excuse me, that's. Yeah. Zero hostility. I had forgotten because somebody actually brought that up to me and I go, you know, I. When was that? Was it five years ago or was it earlier this year? Right.

C (89:15)

So that's. There was. There was no simmering tensions, at least that's good news.

A (89:18)

No, none. None whatsoever. I'm happy for you. I do think it's harder than you're saying, but it also speaks to your passion that it was this easy for you to write this book. So. Cinephile available wherever books are sold. Adnan Virk, great catching up.

C (89:34)

Thanks, Ryan, as always, I will say probably the hardest part for anybody who wants to be.

A (89:37)

No, we're not done. Keep going.

C (89:38)

Is to get the publisher. So I will shout out Hugo at Mango Publishing. That probably was the hardest part is getting somebody to actually publish your book. So honestly, that is something I'm very grateful for. And I want to close with this. I was just on vacation. I got a little bit of a tan. It reminded me of the hardest I've ever seen you laugh. We were doing a show together and you read the tweet aloud in the break. I said, what is it? You go, I have to read it on the air. You go, okay. And you said, somebody tweeted, where did that damn vacation, Mars? And it was the hardest I'd ever seen you laugh because I did have a pretty good Dan. And one other story you've got to tell because I was just on Tim Kirchen's podcast. Is this a great game or what? Him and his son might be my favorite moment of radio ever, which I was not involved with. You and Peter Rosenberg asking people all day who their favorite emcee was, which then led to Tim Kirkchen's answer, which was Bob Uecker.

A (90:30)

Yeah. Because he was so confused. But then he was like, well, I've got one for you.

C (90:34)

Because literally, I've heard it so many times. If I could do the voice, okay. But he'd go, hey, Tim, before I let you go, who's your favorite mc? He goes, what's that? And he goes, favorite mc. He goes, master ceremonies. And before you guys could clarify, he goes, oh, Bob Euchre. Because I once saw Bob Uecker do 30 minutes without any notes, and it was unbelievable. People were on the floor laughing. He's so self deprecating. He's the best MC I've ever seen.

B (90:54)

Pause.

C (90:55)

And then you looked at Rosenberg and go, yeah, that's the first one we've had for Euchre. Okay.

A (90:59)

Yeah, First. It was the only vote for Euchre that day. But that was good. That was good. I mean, those Kirchen hits every single week were so much fun. Say hi to him when you run into them. Yeah.

C (91:10)

Thanks, buddy.

B (91:11)

It's great.

C (91:11)

Thank you to siree. Thank you to the whole team.

A (91:13)

Appreciate you. We'll have you on in the baseball playoffs. All right. Thanks, man. It's that time of year again as college football gets started. The alliance will return. So if you've been on the FanDuel sportsbook page, there's even more stuff going on right now. As we've talked about numerous times throughout this, I did not have a great year last year, and it's disheartening. For me. But you know what? I'm competitive, but not so competitive that I can't appreciate my friend Kyle doing well or Worgon being on an absolute heater. Just Big Ten win after Big Ten win. I don't know if he's going to move on from this podcast and become a Big Ten insider. I'd be happy for him if he did. He was great last year. A couple of the games that I was looking at here, look, it just feels like if Texas is going to get Ohio State or if anybody's going to get Ohio State and getting them early. I guess you could probably make the same argument with Arch in his first game at the Shoe. Like that doesn't feel great. But just the value of Texas plus a point and a half, which is not going to happen again the entire season unless it just becomes a disaster in Austin, which I wouldn't expect, plus a point and a half there at Ohio State is what I'm looking at here. I would likely take Clemson on the money line the game against lsu. I like Minnesota. I've talked about Minnesota a few times this summer. I don't know that I'm picking him to go to the playoff, although P.J. fleck had a great quote the other day. Limitless. Open the jar. We're not rowing the boat anymore, folks. So look, the line is kind of too big the beginning of the season. Some of these lines scare the hell out of me. Like, do you really Want to lay 39 and a half for Missouri? Yes, it's Central Arkansas, but you know, you just start off being like, cool. I'm down 30, 39 points to start the game, but the total on Minnesota Buffalo is 43 and a half. So that'll be my over. Kyle's cooking up a big one for you. Wargon's probably just going to go straight Rutgers picks. And of course Ceruti is just picking from a palette of entertaining options. So you can check all that out. Sportsbook.fandel.com.

D (93:12)

You want details?

A (93:13)

Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

C (93:17)

What's up?

D (93:19)

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

B (93:21)

I have every toy you can possibly imagine.

A (93:24)

And best of all, kids, I am liquid.

B (93:27)

So now you know what's possible.

A (93:29)

Let me tell you what's required. Okay, life advice rrmail.com that's usually the email that we get. Life advice Submissions from We've got Wargon, We've got Ceruti. I know some of you are wondering and I know Saruti is like, what's up with the TaylorMade Crew sweatshirt? Oh, is that what it says?

D (93:50)

I didn't even know what it said. Yeah, interesting.

A (93:53)

I want to thank the good folks at TaylorMade and specifically Brian Kendrick for doing the fitting. When I was back home in Massachusetts, hit, I don't know, a lot of balls up at Granite Links and got fitted for clubs. And he was like, you know, a lot of people make the mistake. They think I have to get better to get fitted. It's like, no get fitted when you're not good. So, yeah, we. We did some testing, figured some stuff out, and I'm thrilled. So, like, I don't know that I can put it on my Instagram bio. I've been meaning to change that from baseball player, slash model, former professional baseball player, because I just think there's a lot of people that say, former professional baseball player, and you're like, where are you? So it was a joke for, like, a couple people, and now I don't know how to change it. So that's part of getting older. And I don't think I should put TaylorMade athlete in the Instagram bio to get rid of the. I just want to get rid of the other thing. But I got fitted, and I want to thank everybody over there again. And I paid for the clubs, by the way.

D (94:51)

So, you know, one, I think you should definitely put it in your bio. And two, are you blades? I would assume. Do we settle on blades? That feels like it is very.

A (95:04)

You like making your life hard.

D (95:05)

So, yeah.

C (95:08)

Let me.

A (95:09)

Let me work up to these. We did not go with blades.

D (95:11)

Oh, okay.

A (95:12)

They did see me swing with their. Their blade, their shot shaper. They're here. I do have some. Just because I was like. Let me see. Because I felt like, well, if the. If the iron phase is that much smaller, it just means I'm gonna lock in. And, boy, it feels.

E (95:27)

You'll grow into it.

A (95:28)

Yeah, right. Yeah. Just start with blades. You know, you have no. There's no getting worse. Yeah. You can't. You can't think, like, oh, the. The club will fix it. You have to fix it. That's how I would be as a parent. So.

D (95:42)

Yeah. What about the dudes in, like, you know, in, like, the 60s, hitting one irons, that would, like, literally sting your hands. Like, I almost feel like golf. I mean, I guess the courses have gotten longer, so I guess that makes up for it a little bit. But, like, the dudes back in the day hitting literal wooden clubs and one irons or like, that One iron where it's like you could adjust it. Like pitching wedge through one iron. Just like on a, like a little tilt thing. Like, dudes just were built different. Back in the day, playing golf, like.

E (96:06)

Golf was basically just a rock too.

D (96:08)

Yeah, we're soft now.

A (96:12)

Yeah, I love looking at those videos of those wire and just, I mean, you know, even when I first, first had that summer that I played, it was like the one summer I was like, I'm gonna play in my 20s and everyone had a three iron and now it's like you have a three. Like people lose their minds.

D (96:29)

Like five is high now. Dudes have like hybrid wedges. It's like, what. When do I use that?

A (96:41)

Yeah, so.

D (96:42)

But hey, good for you, man.

A (96:44)

Yeah, I enjoyed it. The guys, the guys were awesome. It was, it was actually a really fun experience.

D (96:50)

And so, yeah, Kyle's gonna be looking for some. Some stuff, you know.

B (96:54)

Right.

E (96:54)

You got some extras now?

A (96:55)

Yeah. What are you doing with your extras exactly?

D (96:58)

Two pairs of clubs. We're gone. Hey, you know, you never know. Might have to get, you know, that's, you know, shortened a bit, but.

E (97:05)

Ouch.

A (97:07)

I don't know if the blades. I don't know if I'll work right into the blades. I don't know. There's a. There's a few sets over here. I felt like just sample a bunch of different products, different companies, and figure out what fits best for you, you know? My brother decides to get into the game. Hey, come on over to the warehouse. All right, let's read a couple emails here. So what do we have? We have a lot of ones. I'm not going to read. We have a really long one here. I don't know, do we start with something long? Let's start with a cat. All right. Cat sitting catastrophe. Cat slash nice catastrophe. You love that worgon.

E (97:48)

I was gonna activated that.

A (97:50)

Yeah, they did. They did it. And they did it. Well. Ryan and crew got a moral dilemma that's been eating at me faster than two unfed cats would eat literally anything. Right now I live in one of those cool converted apartment buildings from the early 1900s in Seattle. It's a tight knit group of 25, 35 years old who've all bonded over our shared love of overpriced rent and pretending we're adults. The couple directly above me are solid people. We're not best friends, but we've grabbed drinks a few times and do the whole hey neighbor, wave thing without it being weird. As a matter of fact, I'd love To be more official friends with them since they're a sweet couple and have similar interests. But nevertheless, we're more on a water your plants while you're on vacation basis than bail me out of jail in a pinch tip. Okay, so here we go. Scenario. Sunday night, they text me in full panic mode. Their cat sitter bailed last minute and they're leaving at 5am Monday for an overnight backpacking trip, returning Tuesday around 4pm Cats are pretty independent, man.

D (98:45)

What? That's what I. I don't even see. I have a cat. I don't see it for like three days. See, I'm not. That's not even a joke. Like, I. It just, you know, he just kind of keeps himself.

A (98:58)

Yeah, well, I mean, does it go outside though?

D (99:00)

No, it's an indoor cat. But he just. He just kind of does his own thing and I do, I guess I do feed him every day, but like, just leave out a bunch of food and water. Isn't that. It feels like the. The way to go.

A (99:11)

I don't know. I would think you'd be able to leave out food and water if you're gone. What are we talking about here? 35 hours at least.

D (99:23)

Morgan, you're the cat guy. Or. I don't know.

E (99:25)

No, I don't.

B (99:25)

I don't.

E (99:26)

I don't have a cat. But I've heard of people like gone for like a long weekend and just like fill up the bowl all the way.

D (99:31)

Yeah, like litter box. Like you could get a couple days out of that, right?

A (99:37)

I don't want any feel one to have their feelings hurt here, but I just feel like this is where we need Kyle.

D (99:43)

Yeah, that's true. Should I text him?

A (99:49)

Yeah, text him. Because this might take a while. So. Yeah, why don't we shoot him a text? Be like, what's the longest you think you can go without feeding a cat if you own one? I don't know if rabbits. There's probably a different equation there. You know, remove the X, plug in the Y. But he also is Kyle. So he's just going to go. I mean, he would be freaking out, I think. Yeah, we're looking at what, 35 hours. So the ass is for me to feed their two cats Monday night and Tuesday morning. These are pretty. So, okay. Two cats. I don't know if that changes anything. Of course I say yes. I'm a good neighbor. State farm. I like cats. Easy money, low key. Have always wanted to see what their apartment looks like since it's the exact same as mine. But Has a nicer, better view of Mount Rainier. Monday night rolls around, I completely forget to go upstairs and feed him. I blame my post 10 hour workday and the devil's lettuce. I may or may not have smoked after work to relax and wind down. Tuesday morning, 7am I remember. I sprint upstairs only to discover their door needs both a key and a keypad code. I have the key. I do not have the code. I'm standing there like an idiot contemplating breaking into their apartment. I immediately text them about the code, but they're somewhere in the wilderness, so I don't hear back until 10:30am when I'm already at work and can't escape the corporate prison to save these cats from their negligent cat sitter me. Here's the kicker. Tuesday afternoon, I get a text that says, hey, thanks again for feeding our cats. Exclamation point. By the way, we left you $20 in the envelope on the counter. That was for you. So now I'm sitting here with three options, each more morally questionable than the last. Option one, come completely clean. Hey, funny story. I never actually fed your cats because I'm an idiot. Forget Monday night and didn't have your code Tuesday morning. Your cats hate me, I hate me. We're all disappointed. Option two, take the money and run. Just reply no problem. And hope their cats don't hold grudges or learn how to talk, send cryptic messages to their owners about me. Option three, the hybrid lie. Quote, I fed them Monday night but locked myself out Tuesday morning. Which is why I asked for the code. It makes me look slightly less incompetent, but still fundamentally dishonest. The cats are fine, by the way. They had plenty of water, were only unfed for 24 hours. But I'm spiraling about what I. Whether I should confess to being a shitty cat sitter. What's the play here? Thanks. Gentlemen. My question is, how did he get the $20 if it was in an envelope on the counter? Right.

E (102:15)

Well, they gave him the code that morning that he went to work, so he could have gone back, right?

D (102:21)

Yeah, but how would they get into his place or their place and then he's just back there with them while they're back? That seems strange.

A (102:28)

Yeah, right.

D (102:29)

Update from Kyle, by the way. Yes, Said three days. Seems to be reasonable. Not a. Not a cat guy, though.

B (102:36)

That's what I was thinking.

E (102:37)

Three days.

D (102:38)

He wanted to emphasize, not a cat guy.

A (102:42)

I think a lot of the cat. I mean, Kyle is the epitome of a dog guy. Okay, Right.

D (102:49)

He's a rabbit guy. Technically, yeah.

E (102:51)

Technically, not by choice.

A (102:54)

Yes. Single. Kyle doesn't own eight rabbits, is my Correct. But Kyle with a. Maybe half acre. A half acre and a wire fence somewhere, he's buying a dog. I mean, that guy. That guy would have a dog if it were up to him. We know it's not up to him. So he's just more of. He's. I just think he's more locked up. What do you got, two dogs, Seruti?

D (103:21)

Yeah, I have two dogs. I have.

A (103:23)

They're both cats.

D (103:25)

I have one cat. And this is where the problem starts. Because, like, like Kyle not being a rabbit guy, I'm not a cat guy, but I have a cat.

A (103:34)

That's important. I think that's important for your brand because there were some people who were talking about your cat that were like.

D (103:41)

Like, I don't want a cat. In fact, I've tried to give it away multiple times, but.

A (103:46)

Because when it was making the rounds that I didn't necessarily love dogs at espn.

D (103:51)

Oh, that's a tough. Yeah. And then come back from that.

A (103:53)

Yeah. Right. I mean, that was. That was really bad. But I had, you know, I had reasons, you know, little kid doing honestly.

D (104:01)

Better to say that you don't like kids than you don't like dogs.

A (104:04)

Totally. Yeah. It's way more acceptable.

D (104:06)

Yeah.

A (104:07)

No one is ever saying, like, when I meet somebody who doesn't have kids, like, in this world, like, all right, fucking relax. Yeah. Is the world the way it is today, bringing a kid into this world? You never hear dog people say that. So does that mean that dog owners. You know, I don't know.

D (104:22)

Lifespans are a little shorter. You know, it's not the longest term thinking, but yeah, I have two dogs. I have a. I have a dachshund mutt, and I have a, like a border collie mutt. And they're great. But yeah, I've tried to give the cat away multiple times. I. I just don't like it. I'll be honest. It's a mess.

E (104:41)

Is it the cat or just cats in general? Like, is it this specific cat?

D (104:44)

I don't really have anything against cats. I just don't want a cat. Like, if you have a cat, I don't care. I'll pet the cat. I. I just. Litter boxes are just. That's what people like, you know, people.

A (104:54)

That think about dirty and gross.

D (104:56)

Yeah, no, I do ignore the cat. He honestly doesn't really. Like I said, I. There'll be three days where I just we just won't see him. He just kind of keeps to himself. He doesn't like to be touched either. So it's kind of like we don't even have one. But I've tried to give it away multiple times, and it just hasn't really worked out.

A (105:12)

Oregon, true or false. You've owned an iguana at some point?

E (105:15)

False.

A (105:16)

Wow. Okay.

D (105:17)

Any reptiles?

E (105:18)

No reptiles?

A (105:19)

No. You seem like a reptile guy, but I don't always know you, you know, surprise us all the time.

E (105:23)

Won a fish at a carnival once. Other than that, just a dog.

A (105:27)

You have a dog in the city?

E (105:29)

No, no, My. My parents had one growing up.

D (105:31)

But you're trying to get a dog.

E (105:32)

I'm trying to get a dog.

D (105:33)

Yeah, that was on the registry I donated.

E (105:36)

Thank you. We're moving in June. Hoping to get one then.

B (105:39)

Nice.

A (105:41)

Moving in June? Yeah. Hoping to get one. How much is the dog you're looking at?

E (105:46)

Couldn't tell you.

A (105:48)

Ballpark. Were you.

E (105:50)

I haven't even started looking yet. I have no idea how much dog.

D (105:52)

I thought there was, like, a picture of the dog on the. On the wedding thing, just like a stock photo. Oh, I thought you were trying to get that.

E (105:57)

No, it was kind of like a. Like an imaginary fund.

A (106:00)

Okay, so it was like buying a frame.

D (106:05)

One day, right?

A (106:06)

No, but I mean, the picture in the frame, that's the dog picture you used in the registry.

E (106:11)

Yeah.

A (106:12)

Cause that'd be really weird and maybe not funny if it were the dog you wanted and you didn't get enough money in your wedding gifts.

E (106:22)

Sorry, buddy. Back to the pound.

A (106:24)

Or people were like, oh, my God, how great is that dog? Send us a new picture. And you're like, we actually weren't able to close in time. People didn't step up. If you want for your wedding gift, Oregon, I'll buy your dog.

E (106:36)

Melissa's aunt is really into buying us the dog.

D (106:39)

Oh, wow.

A (106:40)

Sounds like. Sounds like, you know, pretty contentious.

E (106:41)

Pretty contentious.

A (106:42)

Okay, I'll lay out, then we'll leave it. We'll leave it to her. Okay.

D (106:46)

Big time. By working wife's aunt.

A (106:49)

I. I actually felt fine about it. She can Alpha the out of me.

C (106:52)

Yeah, listen.

A (106:53)

Yeah, I think I made the right decision. We've not answered this, though. I. I'm a little confused on the $20 thing. Okay, so we left you $20 in the envelope. So aren't they going to know that you never went in there when you never grabbed the 20? Or is it that you never grabbed it and then they're actually going to say like, hey, we're going to give you the 20 after the fact. So let's get to the bottom of this. I, I do like it when you kind of come clean on this one. But the fact that they were this crazy about feeding the cats twice and it was a 24 hour window, I mean, they own the cats, they should understand their habits, what you can and can't do. So if they were that concerned with the feeding pattern that they had a cat sitter, they freaked out, they hit you up. You admitting that you never fed them is likely going to ruin the relationship. So I'm not saying like I'm pro lie in a lot of these scenarios because I think, hey, you know, my bad or whatever, but they obviously really, really care about these cats to schedule this out and to freak out and not be like, I think most cat people being like, we're going to be gone for like a day, plus it'll be fine. It will likely be irreparable. But you weren't super close with them. It seems like you'd like to be closer, as you've mentioned. So the lie that is not going to hurt anyone. The cats are fine. Might be the move here. But the $20 part of it I confused by and I don't understand if they're going to realize later on you never went in there or maybe you were not aware that the 20 was in the envelope and that it was for you and they're going to give you the 20 anyway and now you have to take the 20 on top of the lie. 20 is weird. 20 does not have the impact it used to have.

D (108:38)

A crisp 20 doesn't do it.

A (108:40)

Yeah, like I did. Somebody did something for me and I was like, do I, can I even hand this person a 20? Or are they kind of like a 20? So it cost me 40. And then I was like, this is excessive. I was like, this shouldn't be a $40. Thank you.

E (108:54)

You're in like no man's land.

A (108:56)

But 20. Yeah, 20 felt wrong too, that actually.

D (109:00)

I've kind of had this thought for a while now because like, you know when you have somebody come over and you just don't know if you're supposed to tip them or not. Like, there's just different services and you're like, do I give this, like, you know, like the H vac guy comes over, it's like, do I, do I, what do I do here? Like, you know, or like the, you know, anything. I feel like there needs to be like A database for that, and then what the appropriate dollar amount would be. Because I just. I. I feel like when you Google it just all over the place, it's not. It's not good. And, like, 20. Am I giving somebody a 20 and it's completely insulting them, or am I even insulting them by giving them a tip? I don't know. Stuff.

A (109:30)

No one.

E (109:30)

No one's insulted by just getting a tip.

D (109:33)

Well, yeah, it could be too low.

A (109:35)

Yeah.

B (109:36)

I don't know.

A (109:36)

I had guys from Restoration Hardware set up a bed, and I didn't have any cash. Cash except all pesos. Like, thousands of dollars in pesos.

D (109:45)

And I was like, please, like pesos.

A (109:51)

Yeah. You guys. I don't know. You guys see the conversion rate this morning? Yeah. All right. We spent a lot of time on that one.

D (109:57)

Well, really quickly, I would just say if you feel that badly about it, just don't take the 20. But I wouldn't tell them what happened. The cats are fine. You know, if you're guilty, just don't take the money.

A (110:08)

Yeah, I. I just don't think you want to tell these people. I just don't think you want to tell these people that you didn't feed their cats, man. Because if they were that determined to make sure they were fed twice when they were gone 24 hours, they have high regard for their cats. All right, this one's serious. It's a little long. Hey, guys. Five, 10, 17 0. No, real player. Comp. A retired college baseball player. Took running and golf afterwards. Bench 224. Oh, 255. Sorry, buddy. And look, a lot of you guys out there in the content game, you absolutely suck at talking about lifting. And I'm not saying that as a meathead, but don't. On Chet Holmgren, when you can't figure out it's 28 kilogram dumbbells and you think it's 20 pounds, you're a sucker, you know? And, like, Chet's arms are the length of Rhode island, and he's not huge in the chest. And dudes with arms that are that long, you know, using dumbbells at 28 kilograms. Like, yeah, if he doesn't work out a ton and he's skinny already or whatever, he's not going to be ripping them. Maybe he will in five years, but they're not 20 pounds that he's struggling with. So, you know, look in the mirror. Ask yourself some questions about yourself after. After ripping on Chet Holmgren. Sorry for the long email. Story includes many layers. I recently experienced A breakup with a coworker and I still have to see her every single day at work is tearing me apart. Some context. I just turned 30 and she's 26. She's extremely beautiful, smart, funny. We had a great time together. Because you I'm not bad looking myself and normally do not struggle with the ladies. I've attached pictures of both of us. Let's take a peek. Okay. She is gorgeous. You are a really good looking guy. Totally comfortable saying it. We both work for a prestigious finance company in a major city. Don't say it. All right, no problem. I've been working here for a year. She's been here about nine months. We met at work, a work event five months ago, immediately hit it off. Fast forward shouldn't have given me her number two months ago. We immediately started going on dates and wouldn't you know what? Everything was going perfect. Every day we had was crazy great and would spend all weekend together. But here's where everything changes. About a month into us dating, one of her parents passed away unexpectedly in their sleep. Her parents are divorced. She did not have a great relationship with this parent. So once she finds out the news, she's obviously devastated by it. She's not dealing with just the loss of a parent, but also the guilt of never having the relationship get to a better place. While this happened, I was supporting her the best I could in my feelings and gotten a lot stronger for her. Seeing her having to deal with this terrible situation made me care and want to be there for her even more. She went back home for over a week to be with her family. I was unsure where we would be when she got back, but surprising when she was back, she took me to dinner for my birthday. The date went good. She was obviously sad, but we had fun and even hung out alone along. Excuse me, hung out for a long time that night. After this night I had plans where I was traveling the next weekend for my birthday and then the following Wednesday, Sunday for my mom's birthday. Which looking at the timeline was the worst possible luck because I barely saw her for three weeks after her parents passing. So we hang out one more time that dinner and once again the date seems good. I cooked her dinner at my place. We laughed. She even tells me that will hang out when I get back from my trip. But while I'm on my second trip, she was being distant. And then I get the dreaded text. Hey, sorry I've been mia. I've just been dreading this conversation. But I don't see us as A long term fit. End quote this is the first text below. I'm shocked by this and last time I saw her it seemed we had a good time and she suggested hanging out when I got back. I asked what caused this and tell her I don't want to lose her. She acknowledged how great of a time we had, but since her father's passing she hasn't been in the best headset space, which I completely understand. I give it three days until I reach back out. Because I wanted to give her space and didn't want to press too hard. I asked her if she can talk that night. She proceeds to send a very harsh response saying that she wants to be honest, that she still doesn't see it working long term, she's not going to change her mind and no matter what, and that sometimes people just aren't meant to be together. But she did agree to talk to me on the phone later that night to explain more. We end up talking that night on the phone for about an hour. Her reasoning was she doesn't think we share the same values and that she could pick up on little things that would lead to problems in a long term relationship. I was confused and asked what values and she stated about four or five things that I don't really think were values. One was a joke that I made the last time we hung out where I made fun of her team from work and how they did their job. She thought I was putting her down and not respecting her career. The problem I had with this is that I did make the joke, but she laughed at the joke even when I said, well look, that she laughed doesn't really mean anything. Plenty of people laughed at something that is uncomfortable and the laugh is a mechanism to get through the uncomfortable part. So. And the way I ended the joke was by saying my mom does the same job as her and she's the smartest woman I've ever met. If I would have seen that she was offended by the joke, I would have said sorry. And then I didn't mean anything by it, which is exactly what I told her once I heard she was upset with it. Another value why she didn't see us working long term because I told her I hadn't been to a doctor in over 10 years and I didn't plan on going to one. Yeah, women don't love that man. I mean, it's one thing for you to go from 20 to 30 and not get a checkup, you know. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do But a lot of dudes do it. But when you start, because women are just so much better about that. And when you say, I don't plan on going to one, like, what are you.

D (115:10)

Yeah, be open to it.

A (115:11)

Dude, cattle rancher, like, you know. Yeah, I haven't been 10 years. Fuck not going. Nobody. No woman wants to hear that. No woman's like, you know what I love? He's like, when it comes to health and medicine, he's so independent.

D (115:24)

He does his own research.

A (115:28)

This bothered her deeply because of her parents unexpected death.

E (115:32)

Yeah, kind of fair.

A (115:34)

Yeah. I'm on her side on this one. But the issue with this was that it was true until her parent passed away. Okay. Once that happened, I had a change of heart. Ended up booking a doctor's appointment because I wanted to make her feel better. I was planning on telling her after I went as a surprise because I knew this bothered her and I thought she'd be happy. But still, after I explained that the difference in values she saw wasn't exactly who I was, she still told me she wasn't changing her mind. So now here I'm here writing this email at work where I see her walk by at least five times a day. It's killing me. So my question to you guys is, do you think these values that she's using to break up with me is just a way to protect herself and her emotions because of the trauma she's been going through? How do I handle seeing her every day? Currently, I'm trying to avoid her because of how hurt I am. But at the same time, I. I know that I do want to be with her long term. So I'm wondering what's the best way to give her space during this time, but also try to get back into a relationship with her in the future when I think she's in a better place? All right, look, a couple different things here. She's gone through something, and it was unexpected on top of everything else. So for you to try to understand what she's going through, it's. It's nearly impossible. Right. And everybody's going to react to this kind of thing in a different way. But I think it is fairly predictable for something that's a. A very new relationship. And it's like, you know, I can't take on whatever emotional commitment you need to make to be in a relationship that you think is going long term while you're also dealing with something that's tragic. Tragic and disrupting and surprising and horrible. You know, just a horrible scenario that She's. She's certainly dealing with right now. So I think the key thing for you is you got to stop bringing up any of the relationship stuff. You got to stop talking about the values, because she's only going to be looking. This is another conversation with you that she's going to dread, and she's going to like you even less than she does. All right? So maybe she broke up with you because she didn't like you. Maybe she broke up with you because the values thing that you don't seem to understand as well as she does. Or maybe I shouldn't frame it that way. The priority of however you define values is different from the way she defines it. You know, maybe all of these things are very real. Maybe she just doesn't like you. Maybe she will like you again. But what you can't do is work this relationship in a way that's only about you hoping to get back together with her. You know, her father. Well, I don't know. I don't know which parent it was, so I don't know why I said father. I guess maybe dying unexpectedly in the sleep led me to believe that. But whatever, I will just say, because I don't know, a parent dying like this, you. She needs to know that you'll be there for her in a way that has nothing to do with your real priority. You know, And I guess I'm not saying be devious, but you have to figure out a way where instead of you feeling uncomfortable and having a crush, you every time you see her, you can't think that way. I know it feels almost impossible, but you're just going to have to be somebody that's there, that is no longer somebody that's trying to date her. You're going to have to figure out a way to get there. And whether you believe it or not, you're not going to. But she can't see you as somebody that's. That's working the relationship angle while she's going through all of this. And if you ignore her for your own, like, that's going to make it even worse, too. So you've got to treat her like a friend. You know, you had this connection at some point. I don't know if it's ever going to come back. It's going to be really, really hard for you. But anything that you're doing that is about, you know, hey, you have a couple friendly chats a month from now, and then you're right back to it being like, I miss you and I want to get back together, it's likely not going to work. She's going to have to get through this and process it however she needs to, however long it's going to take. But you'll likely put yourself in a much worse position if you're working the relationship angle. You have to ignore that completely right now. Yeah.

D (119:07)

The last thing you want to be is pushy right now. And that sucks because obviously you want to push for what you want, but it's, you're, you're just going to keep digging a bigger hole for yourself. Is it also possible, like, is she just kind of maybe making up some of these problems, red flags, like, and she just doesn't really want to tell you the real reason or, you know, like, and like people say stuff all the time when they're on dates and to just to pass, you know, to make conversation easy, to laugh, like it's easy to do that. And then you kind of get back home and you're like, I don't know if I really felt that, you know, the way I really wanted to. And you know, obviously she was going through a lot of stuff, so maybe she said things and her headspace wasn't right, but is it just possible that she's just not really telling you the main things that she doesn't like about you? Not that it shouldn't like you as a person, but that she doesn't want to date you and she, you know, because maybe she cares about your feelings, it doesn't want to actually like crush you by telling you, hey, I actually, you know, I'm not into this thing that you do and it's a little easier to just say these little nugget things that kind of don't matter.

E (120:01)

Yeah, agree. I think that's a good point. I just, it doesn't really matter if it's, you know, her headspace or these value issues. There's an age gap, right? Like she's, she's a bit younger. Maybe she's not ready for like, it's only four years.

C (120:12)

Four years.

E (120:13)

But she's what, 26 in a big city? Like, she might not want like a long term serious relationship, but a relationship is too. It doesn't. Like, if you want to be in one, you can't force her to be in that relationship with you. And honestly, you wouldn't want that. So you, yeah, you do just gotta find a way to get back to normal life. If it happens, it happens. Otherwise you kind of gotta move on.

D (120:34)

Can you use the. Seeing her every day as like A good thing though because yeah, you can just be kind of like, you can still be friendly with her. You can still kind of be around in her life. It's kind of like to hang around the hoop and get buckets thing. Like maybe, maybe you're just around and like it comes around after a few months or a year or whatever. Maybe she just needs the time sometimes. Like people, it doesn't make sense, but you just need the time after something crazy happens in your life and you're actually going to be there. Potentially seeing her multiple times a day. And if, and if, and to you, to what you said Ryan, like if that's like a friend from a friendly perspective and helping her and caring about her well being. Maybe, you know, maybe it does come around.

A (121:08)

I'll add this because only I've seen it. You might want to look at spelling. Oh, some words.

D (121:18)

So like a. Your, your situation.

A (121:21)

It was just a couple. I wasn't offended. But I know that there's people out there that are like, if you can't get your there there is your ears down. You know, I don't send it back. I don't even know if any of this will matter in a few years. But I'll tell you what, it can be still, it can still be a turn off to some people.

D (121:41)

Yeah, I tell you what, there was like a, like a. Somebody tweeted out essentially, like, I know, I know. No one less than me and my Facebook wall in like 2008. And now you get those like memories. So they'll send you things that you sent to friends in like high school and early college. And I'm like, my grammar was that bad? What?

A (122:01)

Who is this guy?

D (122:03)

And I'm just, I'm embarrassed for myself, to be honest with you. And the good thing about it is, like, you just go, all right, delete. No one's going to see that one again. Not that people are checking out my Facebook page, but still, it's like, oh man, tough scene.

A (122:12)

I'm on it. I'm on it weekly.

E (122:13)

Please don't screenshots.

A (122:17)

Shout out to Wargon Ceruti. Jonathan Frius is a video podcast on the Spotify app and our YouTube page. Ryan was still a podcast bringer. Spotify.

E (122:26)

They were going to name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it.

A (122:31)

So they named me Michael. Jared must be 21 and older and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 100 GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is there. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, HOPE NY or text HOPE.