Warriors for Real? Mavs Are Fine, Embiid’s Return, and the Bucks' Future With Howard Beck.

Summary

The Ryen Russillo Podcast: Episode Summary Title: Warriors for Real? Mavs Are Fine, Embiid’s Return, and the Bucks' Future With Howard Beck

Hosts:

• Ryan Russillo – Host, The Ringer
• Howard Beck – Guest, NBA Analyst

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Introduction

In this episode of The Ryen Russillo Podcast, Ryan Russillo engages in an in-depth discussion with NBA analyst Howard Beck. They break down the latest developments in the NBA, focusing on the Golden State Warriors, Dallas Mavericks, Philadelphia 76ers, Milwaukee Bucks, and the return of Joel Embiid. The conversation delves into team strategies, player performances, and future prospects within the constraints of the NBA's financial regulations.

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Golden State Warriors: Depth and Sustainability

Timestamp: [00:10 - 23:54]

Ryan opens the discussion by highlighting Golden State's recent victory over Dallas, attributing their success to the team's depth and strategic rotations. He praises the Warriors’ decision to utilize a deep rotation, featuring up to 12-13 players, and commends players like Kevon Looney for their impactful returns.

Ryan Russillo [02:15]: "Steph going into last night, only 28 minutes per game. A bump up because they needed him to close that fourth."

Howard Beck acknowledges the novelty of such extensive rotations, noting that while it provides short-term advantages, it's not sustainable long-term. He emphasizes the challenge coaches face in maintaining player consistency and effectiveness when managing large rosters.

Howard Beck [21:41]: "It's a hard cap on how much you can do with rotations without sacrificing consistency."

The duo discusses the Warriors' impressive offensive and defensive rankings—third and fourth in the league, respectively—and questions whether their current strategy will hold up in the playoffs, especially concerning Stephen Curry's playoff performance.

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Dallas Mavericks: Stability Amid Concerns

Timestamp: [23:54 - 32:01]

The conversation shifts to the Dallas Mavericks, where Ryan expresses confidence in the team's current form despite some alarming statistical trends. He references the Mavericks' acquisition of Devin Gafford and PJ Washington, assessing how these moves have impacted their performance.

Ryan Russillo [26:00]: "Dallas just went through five games where they played Phoenix at Denver, at Golden State, three losses by a combined six points."

Howard Beck elaborates on Dallas' statistical performance, noting improvements in shooting percentages but concerns in rebounding rates and overall efficiency. Despite these numbers, both Ryan and Howard remain optimistic, attributing recent losses to a challenging schedule against top-tier teams.

Howard Beck [29:10]: "If your rotation is as deep as Dallas, you can weather the storm, but the true test comes in the playoffs."

They discuss the Mavericks' potential strategies moving forward, including adjustments in player rotations and the importance of maintaining team chemistry.

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Joel Embiid’s Return: Impact and Expectations

Timestamp: [32:01 - 40:42]

Ryan brings attention to Joel Embiid's much-anticipated return to the Philadelphia 76ers, acknowledging that while his performance in initial games may not meet fan expectations, the long-term benefits are promising.

Ryan Russillo [39:00]: "Embiid didn't look great last night, but it's his first game since May 2nd. He fought his ass off."

Howard Beck agrees, emphasizing Embiid's resilience and the critical role he plays in the Sixers' lineup. They discuss Embiid's adaptation post-injury and the adjustments he needs to make to regain his pre-injury form.

Howard Beck [37:09]: "He didn't look great last night, but he's got a long way to go to get back to his full potential."

The analysis covers the Sixers' current roster dynamics, the integration of Paul George, and how Embiid's return could influence their standings and playoff aspirations.

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Milwaukee Bucks: The Future of Giannis Antetokounmpo

Timestamp: [40:42 - 53:48]

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the Milwaukee Bucks and the potential future of their star player, Giannis Antetokounmpo. Ryan and Howard delve into the complexities surrounding Giannis' contract extension and the looming questions about the Bucks' ability to retain him amidst the NBA's second apron (financial cap restrictions).

Ryan Russillo [25:51]: "How much of this is even possible if it were to get there? How bad would this have to get for the Milwaukee Bucks?"

Howard Beck discusses the challenges the Bucks face in valuing Giannis for potential trades, considering his unparalleled talent and the difficulty in matching his contract within the constraints of the NBA's financial rules.

Howard Beck [25:51]: "How do you even account for or try to estimate what his value is? Are 10 first-round picks enough?"

They explore scenarios where the Bucks might have to make tough decisions, such as trading Derrick Rose or other key players, to manage the salary cap while attempting to build a competitive team around Giannis.

Howard Beck [32:15]: "It's hard if you're trying to build around a superstar like Giannis without another star to support."

The discussion also touches on the overall strategy of NBA teams in the current economic landscape, emphasizing the delicate balance between team competitiveness and financial viability.

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Philadelphia 76ers: Team Dynamics and Future Prospects

Timestamp: [53:48 - 73:20]

Ryan shifts focus back to the Philadelphia 76ers, analyzing their current performance and future potential with Joel Embiid back in action and Paul George's integration into the team. He expresses cautious optimism while noting the team's need for cohesion and synergy among its star players.

Ryan Russillo [35:27]: "Where are you with Philly right now?"

Howard Beck reassures Sixers fans by highlighting that while the team looks promising on paper, the true measure of their success will depend on how well Embiid, Paul George, and Maxi Kleber perform together once Maxie is fully healthy.

Howard Beck [37:09]: "Until Maxi, Paul, and Embiid are all playing together, it's fair to say take a deep breath."

They discuss the importance of team chemistry, the impact of recent trades, and the Sixers' ability to sustain their performance throughout the season, setting the stage for a strong playoff run.

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [73:20 - End]

As the episode winds down, Ryan and Howard briefly touch upon other NBA topics, including the Cleveland Cavaliers' impressive start to the season and potential upcoming matchups that could shape the Eastern Conference's dynamics. They also share personal anecdotes and engage in light-hearted banter, maintaining a friendly and engaging atmosphere.

Ryan Russillo [76:09]: "They are doing all of this without Strus. That was supposed to add to some of this stuff, but I think Garland coming back fully healthy is a huge win."

Howard Beck emphasizes the unpredictability of the NBA season and the importance of staying attuned to team developments as the season progresses.

Howard Beck [83:02]: "It's going to be fascinating. We didn't put too much on it because it's only November."

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Russillo [02:15]: "Steph going into last night, only 28 minutes per game. A bump up because they needed him to close that fourth."
• Howard Beck [21:41]: "It's a hard cap on how much you can do with rotations without sacrificing consistency."
• Ryan Russillo [25:51]: "How much of this is even possible if it were to get there? How bad would this have to get for the Milwaukee Bucks?"
• Howard Beck [37:09]: "Until Maxi, Paul, and Embiid are all playing together, it's fair to say take a deep breath."

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Key Takeaways

• Warriors' Deep Rotation: Golden State's strategy of utilizing a large rotation provides short-term success but raises concerns about long-term sustainability and playoff performance.

• Mavericks' Stability: Despite some concerning statistics, the Dallas Mavericks show resilience against top teams, maintaining stability through strategic player acquisitions.

• Embiid’s Return: Joel Embiid's comeback is crucial for the Sixers' success, with his synergy with Paul George being a determining factor in their future performance.

• Bucks' Financial Dilemma: The Milwaukee Bucks face significant challenges in managing Giannis Antetokounmpo’s contract within the NBA’s financial constraints, potentially impacting their roster and competitiveness.

• Sixers’ Team Dynamics: The integration of key players in Philadelphia is essential for their playoff aspirations, with team chemistry and player health being critical components.

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This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of several NBA teams' current states and future prospects, enriched by Howard Beck's expert insights. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of the strategic maneuvers and challenges teams face within the evolving landscape of the NBA.

Transcript

[Ryan Russillo]

Big NBA Wednesday for you. Tales from the couch Golden State's viability a little Dyson Daniels love, not worried about Dallas. A couple other small things that I want to get to, including Embiid's return that we'll do with Howard Beck. Also, how bad would it actually have to get for the Milwaukee Bucks? And let's just kind of go back and look at the timeline of events and what's fair about them. Has he ever been shoved by an NBA player And even more NBA stuff with him. We've got life advice, including a movie correction that I needed this episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. You can choose the insurance coverage that fits your needs at a price you can afford. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Chevy. Great football teams are built by having the right capability in the right positions. It's the same with great trucks like the Chevy Silverado. You start under the hood with four powerful engine choices delivering massive towing capacity. Then you've got available onboard technology that gives you extra peace of mind while towing. Finally, the rugged, purposeful design of the Silverado screams grit and determination just like a winning football team. Visit Chevy.com to learn more. Tales from the Couch on a Wednesday. I always feel like I haven't watched basketball in five years when I go on a road trip and it's hard to keep up with the routine. But a lot of good stuff from last night, some real clarity. I just feel good today. I don't know what it is, but I feel good. I want to talk hoops with you. All right, let's open up with Golden State's win against Dallas. Shout out to Golden State fans, the organization, the captain's lids for Clay's return all time. Great move, Unique. Can't be topped. Maybe you could do it with the Admiral, but now it wouldn't be original. So I love it and I love seeing Clay ball. I just like Clay. I. I like him. I like what his history is, what his legacy will be. I like his personality a ton. And I do like when somebody goes enrolls into his old home and is like, you guys doubted me. Here you go. I'm going to Give it to you. But it wasn't enough because Golden State gets the win. So now we've got three teams at the top of the west at nine and two. Golden State, okc, Phoenix. OKC has their own issues with all three of their centers out right now. Chat timeline with the hip thing. I mean that was bad. January is J will 2, what I like to call them, probably another month and then Arnstein return imminent. So it looks like they'll be able to weather this and not have to play Jaylen Williams, one at center and some Usman Jang. So this is actually something that I'm noticing more and more too. We saw it last night with Golden State with their closing lineup, which isn't exactly new. It's like reinventing Golden State. But some of the small ball lineups that I've seen from teams around the league, like I could give you a ton of examples of it. But OKC by necessity, Golden State by design. Again see it with Houston at times. Memphis is on a little run here. They played Ed only 15 minutes against Lakers, but granted AD was out and some J. Huff production as well. Denver in the non jokic stuff at times. So yeah, there's just. It's just something to look at where I'm noticing that it's. It's actually more impressive with some of these small ball lineups because just how many guys are offensive threats, which I think is what the league eventually will just shift into. If you're big and you have this full range of offensive skills, great too. But it may be like the Sam Presti model, right? Just hey, let's get long dudes that can all create pass, dribble and shoot in theory. Good luck. Good luck trying to do all of those things. Right. And of course with Boston last year, with the Porzingis part of it, and even with Horford, that's kind of what you're getting as well, where everybody who has the ball in a big spot, you're not worried. Like, think how hard that it's like you can. You could be a gm, a potential gm, talking to an owner and going through the interviews. Like, what I'd like to have is five guys that are all awesome at passing, shooting and dribbling and all be huge. Okay, you're hired. Great. So Golden State, the energy that they're bringing night in and night out, I forget which game I talked about it after the after because it's. They've had a few of these where you see games just completely shifted on their energy and the defensive energy they have. They're third on offense in the league, they're fourth in defense. And the minutes that they're handing out here, the buy in, because this usually doesn't work. All right? And even Steve Kerr has hinted at like, I might have to shorten this rotation at some point, playing 12 to 13 guys. But Steph going into last night, only 28 minutes per game. A bump up because they needed him to close that fourth. So 29 minutes per game. And again, I don't know that it really will last. You know, whenever our teams have struggled in the past, one of the default things will be the front office will bitch about the coaching staff, specifically the head coach going, you know, you know what it's. We're two months into the season. Like, figure out your eight guys, maybe a ninth guy based on the matchup thing, but you can't really play this many guys all season long. You could also make an argument with Golden State's record in the statistical profile, which is incredible if you were really projecting them out in the playoffs. Is there enough of a consistent do it on his own second score on this team that you like in the playoffs? And I'm talking like the real playoffs, right? Not the first round, the real playoffs. And that as of right now for me, is a little tbd unless Kaminga takes another jump. I have some stuff on wakens here a little bit, but we'll get into it. So at the start of the fourth quarter, speaking of offense, there are different rotations. This is why I always like the substitution talk. Some of you may not like it, but you'll look within a game and see how a team is rolling out their five. And the first thing I'll look for is, okay, where is the offense? Like, Denver had a lineup, I think, last week where I was just like, oh, my God, this might be rough. And it was brutal. So at the start of the fourth quarter for Golden State, it was Pajemski, Kaminga, Moody, Draymond, and then Melton. And they were up seven. And then by the time Steph checked in six plus minutes, the game was tied. So they'd given up to seven points. And, you know, Pamski can certainly initiate on his own. Kaminga is, is in moments, kind of nice. Moody's fine. Draymond's probably a little more assertive offensively at times because he understands like what they need. And then Melton has always been, I think, an incredibly underrated player. But for an NBA five against a really good team like Dallas, you're like, what's this going to look like? And I'm not saying like I'm 100% right because they gave up the seven points. But it's just, just something to think about when you're watching these teams in those moments without their main guns. Again, the Denver five. They had one the other night was Westbrook, Strother, Hunter, Tyson, Zeke Naji. Was the four around Michael Porter Jr. Being like, you guys want me to do all of this now? It's like, yeah, kind of. Can you do some more of the other stuff? And it didn't, it wasn't great. I forget what the plus minus was for that stretch. Let's not worry about it right now. So we've got the Clay return. Kyrie's put a blowtorch to this season in a good way. He doesn't miss any shots. 55 and 54% splits. 25 and 5 and 5. Right. 5. A lot of fives. The advanced numbers tell you this might be Kyrie's best season since his first season in Boston. Still a lot of work to do very early. Lucas starting to shoot it a little better after a slow start. But I want to do a bit of an NBA audit on Dallas. Like what were your returns last year? This guy's talking about taxes again. I can't even. All right, so what we have to do when we look at last year for Dallas, we have to remember that they were a different team after February 10th once they acquired Gafford and PJ Washington. And that was something too when you started to look at Denver, excuse me, Dallas last season and trying to figure out like how good can this team actually be? Like, all right, well there's some alarming numbers here, right? I mean even OKC had that super alarming rebound rate number. And then it's always funny when there's like this awful number then somebody locally will write like why it's actually not a bad thing. Like, I don't know. That seems to be pretty bad when you're one of the three or four worst rebounding teams and we're trying to figure out if you can win a title. But Dallas had some bad numbers. You know, for a real title contender they weren't like terrible but just something to look at, right? So if you look at their. Whether or not they fixed their things with the Gafford PJ acquisition and the two headed monster of Gafford and Lively last season from that point on, again, February 10th on ninth on offense, eighth on defense, rebounding rate was 19th. And then true shooting percentage was 18. Or, excuse me, 8. 8. So top 10 this year. They're 11th in offense, they're 11th in defense. The rebounding is actually worse with the fix it guys. So at 26%, they're 26th and rebound rate, and the shooting is down 14. Now, the real thing is that Dallas just went through five games where they played Phoenix at Denver, at Golden State, three losses by a combined six points. So these numbers may not mean any. I just thought it was sort of interesting, is like you had to throw away some of the bad numbers with Dallas before the trade deadline, and then the numbers were sort of better. And I think there's some rim protection stuff too. That's. That's good. And then you can look at some of these numbers and go, well, how. How are they actually getting worse? Because when I think of the good version of Dallas that I've seen this season, it's like everybody just kind of knows exactly what their role is already. You know, Nick Nurses over here every night prepping, going, like, when's Nick Nurse actually going to know what his team looks like? We have a few moments on him, B. Don't worry about it. So, yeah, that's. I don't. I wouldn't sit here and get super worried about Dallas because again, what's another thing that we tell you constantly on this podcast, it's the schedule, stupid. That's sometimes the simplest way to explain a team having this incredible run, this massive spike. And then early on like this for Dallas, with all of these expectations coming off the NBA Finals like, hey, what's wrong with them? Well, what's wrong with them is they played three awesome teams here, so I'm not that worried. Late plays. One thing to look at if they match up again is Steph getting the switch into Luka, which makes sense. But the second part of what they do is they set a screen to set Steph hunting Luca, and then Draymond brings Lively up, and then Steph has the option of. And he even kind of like hinted at this in the post game. He has the option of switching into Lively. Or what I liked the first time he did it is he just went right by. Luca ignored the Draymond Lively action of it, which was just so smart. Draymond bringing him up, and now Lively's away from the rim. So now all of your rim protection is gone and there's attackers all around. A couple other small things. I think Wiggins just looks better. Traditional stats are going to show you that much. The advanced stuff does. I just think he looks better. And then sometimes your eyes can lie to you. They're not lying to me on Wiggins, and I doubt if you like them too. They're lying. They're not lying to you either, Buddy. Healed. It feels like more drives, but the drive totals. I went into them this morning. It's not really that different than it was with Philadelphia. It's about the same as it was with the Pacers. Maybe the drives just feel more successful because there's space on any of the step minutes there. Atlanta beats Boston. The Hawks are five and seven. Trey was out last night. The east three seed through the nine seed. Orlando's the three seed at six and six. Their win against the Hornets, the nine seed in the east is four and six. This feels like it's going to be a mess for a long time here, so I'm not sure I'll be. I don't know if there'll be great conviction in January about who really is good in the east outside of Cleveland, where, trust me, Cavs fans, it's overdue. I've got to do it. But I saw you live in New Orleans. I'll get to it. I'll probably do the big deep dive after the Cleveland Boston game next week. And even if they were to lose, if Cleveland were to lose that game, not going to freak out about it. I really like what I've seen from them, but they didn't play last night. So I don't have it for you right now and the rest of the East. But I want to talk about Dyson Daniels, who the Hawks acquire in the Dejounte Murray trade. He went crazy last night. 28, 7 and 3. He's still only 21. He's 22 in March. I loved him before the draft. This is what I wrote in 22 in prepping for him. I'm going to give you one sentence. He is constantly all capsule. When I write all caps notes to myself, I know I'm serious. He is constantly making the right play. Pass reads, D drives, floater versus Drive. Doesn't just drive to drive. Defensive stance, instincts, knows when to help jump into passing lanes. There you go. He is right now putting together a defensive resume. There's no way he's going to keep this up. He has 76 deflections on the season. Alex Caruso's number two in the NBA with 44 total deflections. He has 36 steals, 15 ahead of Jalen Williams, number one with 21. Caruso led the NBA last year with 3.7 deflections per game. So far, Dyson Daniels is at 7.6. Atlanta out rebounded Boston, constant turnovers. A lot of it was great defense, especially with Dyson. We're talking about six straight steals. Six more or six or more steals, I think in three straight games. Also some just stupid ass passing from Boston on top of everything else. So it's all sort of connected in there. So with Dyson with no Trey last night. I know what you think I'm going to say, but I'm not going to say it because it was one game. I think there's also something about the Dejounte trade where it's like, man, Deante, this guy comes in, he's like pretty good. I don't know if Dejounte's played defense in San Antonio and I understand New Orleans trying to raise their offensive ceiling, but the, the issue with Dyson is a bit like Josh Giddy, right? If Giddy is off the ball, it's kind of pointless. And that's why Oklahoma City moved on from him. And they also get somebody like Alex Caruso who is a better complimentary fit to the on ball people that Oklahoma City usually litters their lineup with. Right. Where you covered that roster construction. Dyson Daniels off the ball is kind of pointless too. I mean, he averaged four shot attempts per game with New Orleans. And you know, if we really want to dig into some of this stuff, the offense is still a total work in progress for a guy who's 21, he's 27% from 3, 31% from his career. So that 27% number is this year. But getting to see what it looks like last night is really exciting. Knowing that when Trey comes back in and I'm not even dissing Trey here, okay. It's just what does it look like when somebody who has not developed the NBA shot and can't use his on ball? Creative, instinctive stuff that is so enticing from him. You know, when Giddy is right, it's kind of what gets you excited about giddy all over. I mean, it's the reason why draft profile wise, looking at the guys, you're like, look at all the size of the ball handling and how they set other guys up. And it's like, okay, instead you can't shoot and go stand over there. The difference between Gideon Dyson is clearly the defense because everything we just went through on what Dyson is doing so far this early part of the season defensively should prove that there's a role for anyone that can do that. Kind of stuff. The other problem is if you have a center who's not any kind of threat from the perimeter and you have Dyson out there with them, which is Capella or Kongwu, then it starts to become a little bit more challenging. Especially when you're trying to think like, okay, against good teams if you were in the playoffs, like, how easy are we going to defend? Okongo is actually trying to take threes now. He's at two attempts per game. It's 21%. He was 33% last year in just one attempt. But it does concern me a little bit and just what it'll all look like when everybody's back. But just a few minutes on Jalen Johnson. He did everything last night. Just pulled out the entire toolbox and showed you what he's capable of. Here's a number for you. Jokic right now is leading the NBA with 116 touches per game. Okay, that's the highest touch per game total I've seen in 12 years. I think since the tracking data was even logged. So it might be, you know, I don't know who was going to beat that before that. Right. Especially with even less possessions, slower pace, all the stuff we've been talking about. So last time I brought this number up when I was talking about the Jokic workload, it was 111 touches. So it's actually gone up since we've done it. Jokic was 101 last year. So again, Jokic has led it the last six years. It's usually around 100. Absurd number this year. Do you know who's number two? Well, it would make sense if you were paying attention. It's Jaylen Johnson of the Hawks now. He's incredible the way he, like he had a drive on Jalen Brown where Jaylen Brown looked just too small, too weak to even handle them. The follow dunks, right. He had a couple pull ups. They were initiating a ton of the offense with him where he was handling the basketball at the top of the key and you're like, is this a real thing? Is this going to be something that's like a real weapon for them? Well, we know what the stat lines are for him. We know how exciting he can be and we got the full toolbox of it all last night. Couple closing thoughts. Detroit, great win against Miami in overtime. The inbounds pass to tie it and then the technical foul on the Heat for not having a timeout to call it. Beasley hits the free throw game. I wonder if Monty Williams on league past night watches the Pistons Better odds Monty Williams watches the Pistons or Stan Gundy would watch the Pelicans after he left. I don't know the answer to that. I don't have a lot on Embiid. We're going to get to it with Howard Beck. He looked terrible and that's to be expected, so I'm not going to be critical of him. Cat fought his ass off last night. Really just love his work. Even though I don't love the total cap package, I think he deserves credit for how hard he worked last night. Jared McCain looks like a steal in the draft. You want to talk comfortable immediately. Looks like the Sixers got another one. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. You can choose the insurance coverage that fits your needs at a price you can afford. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Duluth Trading Company. From what I've seen over the years, if you want to up your game, then settling for average shouldn't be an option. Duluth trading outthink, outsmart and outdo average with every piece of men's and women's gear they build. It's why they fabricate firehose pants to be especially tough, pack their bibs full of pockets and make sure buck naked underwear feels barely there. It's all about innovating ingenious gear that you just won't find anywhere else. Shop online or in store today. Visit Duluth trading.com from the Ringer it's Howard Beck, a lifer covering the NBA. And we mean that as a compliment. Let's go. Let's get into all of this stuff. I want to start out west. We have those three teams, the nine and two record. We know that OKC is getting one of their centers back while they're going to be missing the other two. Durant down for a little bit and this Golden State thing keeps rolling. Let's start there with their win last night. Just overall like we know the rules and I talked about it in the open a little bit is no one actually wants to play this many people because it feels like it's just not sustainable. But they are taking advantage of their depth, the energy, especially with some of the guys that are more defensive minded. It's really, really impressive and kind of a coach's dream to see kind of that, that effort and the fact that Steph buys into the limited minutes and all this stuff. I just wonder. It's not about, hey, can they win a title? But like, what do you, how long do you expect this to happen? Because I think even Kerr has said like, yeah, well, it's fun right now. We'll see.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, no blessing and curse potentially when you're a head coach who's got 10, 11, 12 guys or whatever who all are good enough to play, it's an incredible luxury, but it is awkward. It's not what guys are used to. Players like routine, players like consistency and players like minutes and have a substantial amount of them and it's, it's hard if you're like I was looking at like, you know, Lindy Waters the third was I like I didn't even know if you had done the who he played for game with me a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have even known that Lindy Waters was on the Warriors. I'm sorry, I'm supposed to know these things. I would not have known. Oh, Lindy Waters, a really good rotation guy for the Warriors. Sure, of course, why not? And he hasn't played the last two games. That's how deep they are right now.

[Ryan Russillo]

It's.

[Howard Beck]

I don't think it can last. As you noted, Kerr himself has kind of alluded to the fact as a former player, he knows that can't last. So the question I think Priscilla becomes does, does Kerr eventually find his eight or nine guys that he trusts most and that can do enough.

[Ryan Russillo]

Right?

[Howard Beck]

Because you got a lot of guys who, the reason you have a deep rotation like that is you don't have enough guys who are great two way guys. So okay, a defensive specialist here, we can do five, six, seven minutes with this guy. You know, here's our three point shooter. We can do seven, eight, nine min. But you want guys that you can rely on for 15, 18, 20. And when guys are limited or a little more one dimensional, it becomes difficult. So instead you just go wave after wave of guys who will all come in, play their asses off for their five minute turn or whatever. It can work for a while. Yes, I do think eventually he has to cut it down and when he cuts it down, he might lose some of what made this work. Because now you're going to play guys longer than maybe the totality of their talent would merit. So I'M skeptical that it can last. I'm also of the belief, like a lot of people, and this is easy to say here in mid November, that they've set themselves up really well for a consolidation trade. But those are like, trading's just really hard. The NBA and it's even harder right now under the second apron and all of the limits that teams across the league have. So I am curious where this goes. Can he stick with a really deep rotation? Does he cut it back to the point where maybe they lose what made it special? Or does this ultimately end up with a consolidation trade and who are they getting back in that deal? Like, those are the curiosities I have. But in the meantime, they're really fun. Like, they're just. They look, they have, they embody. Because it's still Stefan Draymond at the core. They still embody a lot of what made the warriors fun to watch and what also made them a great basketball team. And, man, if they can just keep the good vibes going for a while, like the. And as long as Steph and Draymond are healthy, I don't see why they can't keep winning at a really high rate. It doesn't make them contenders necessarily, but I think they can do some damage. And I thought that before the season.

[Ryan Russillo]

Started, by the way. I wasn't sure. You know, I just. I feel like the drop off from one to two, and that's kind of where I'll look at them. If this is still the same team and they're entering the playoffs, I'm just going to go, all right, this is awesome. And yet from Steph to who number two is offensively in those really tight moments, is there somebody here? Unless we get. You know, I think Wiggins has looked much more like Wiggins from two years ago than last year. We know, you know, there's a bunch of stuff going on. It's funny you bring up Lindy Waters, though, because I think Oklahoma City is at such a stage with their depth and how good they are evaluating, talent building. As soon as they cut somebody, I would just want them on my team to get a look like if Presty liked him that much, and they're in such a log jam, especially with all the draft fix keep coming up. Like, the first thing I would be telling guys, like, as soon as Oklahoma City cut somebody, even if I didn't like the guy in college, we're just bringing them in for a couple months to see what happens. You know what? Let's just get to it because It's. It's fun, even if it's stupid. You just mentioned the trade stuff. And as much as I just love fantasizing about what options could be out there, also the. The quiet time, right? The calm before the storm where we've been a little quiet, like, last year's trade deadline was just impossibly boring. This summer was fairly straightforward. And it's like, man, we're due here. But I think part of the new cba, as much as it was essentially a hard cap without saying it's a hard cap, great marketing, is that the next guy who's mad, who wants to do something now, you can just say, well, cool, but we can't. And I. I guess, like, when I would just do the Milwaukee part of it, you know, start there, even though it drives Bucks fans crazy. And it would me, too, because, you know, it's one of the three best players in the league with Giannis, how much of this is even possible if it were to get there? Like, how bad would this have to get? And if it got that bad, what's even viable in this new world?

[Howard Beck]

I have never had Bucks fans angrier at me, Russello. Than about a year ago at this time, I just started the ringer, and Giannis signed that extension. And my editor, Matt do said, hey, what do you think of the extension? I said, that's not really news. Guys sign extensions. And I said, besides, in today's NBA, extensions don't mean anything anyway because guys sign extensions and ask out the next day. He goes, that's your column. I said, oh, yeah, I guess it is. And I wrote that. And what I wrote at the time was, not that I expect Giannis to ask out, not that I want him to ever ask out. I'm all in favor, actually, of continuity in this league, especially in small markets, but it's the reality of the time that we're living in in this NBA superstars, eventually, if they get disillusioned for any reason, they're going to ask for trades. So the clock is always ticking. And all I meant to say in that column, and I stand by every word of it, is that you just never know. Things take a turn quickly in this league. Is that happening right now? I think that's what we're all trying to grapple with, and that's certainly what the Bucks are trying to grapple with. I will just say that before we even get to the mechanics of. Yeah, we live in a virtual hard cap in the NBA for the first time. Right. The second apron has become this virtual hard cap. So it's going to be hard to make a deal regardless, considering how much Giannis makes and what you need to get back for him. And this is the greatest player you know, you've had in the modern era. How do you. How do you even account for or try to. How do you try to even estimate what his value is? Like, are 10 first round picks enough? Or do you need multiple rotation guys plus a boatload of picks? Like, I don't know how to measure that. And you're also dealing with a really difficult market. But before we even get to that, it's what's the pulse on Giannis? Because you're not trading him voluntarily. It's just like with Portland. Were there moments where Portland could have decided on their own? You know what? Maybe we should just trade Dame, cash out. The era is over. Let's start over. Let's do this proactively. Let's do it before he starts to slide. You don't do that in this league. You wait for the superstar to say, I want out. In part because you don't want to be the person who voluntarily traded the greatest player in franchise history. So until and unless Giannis says it's time, guys, I don't expect it to happen. And I don't expect it to happen between now and the February trade deadline. I think if this thing is coming to an end, it will happen in the off season. And I wonder. Here's what I wonder. I wonder what you think of this. If things are continuing down this road and it's getting tense and Giannis isn't asking out yet, but the vibes are bad, you've got one more swing to try to salvage this. I'm trying to figure out what that is. Do you trade Dame? How much value does he even have on the trade market at this stage? I'm not sure of that. Because if it's not him, where else do you go with this? Portis and Brook Lopez, I don't think breaking up the final pieces of the old core. Middleton doesn't have any trade value considering his injury. Like, I don't know what the move is in the near term, if you're trying to do one more thing to salvage it and it's not a coaching change because you already tried that like five times, three times. But you can't. You're not solving it by firing Doc.

[Ryan Russillo]

No, you're not. And if you look at Dame, he's 49 million this year, 54 million next year. Player option 2627 at 36 years old, at 58 and a half million. I think it's worth even going back and looking at it, because it's become very easy to just go, okay, well, that trade was terrible. And I was listening to. I don't know if it was the Boston broadcast. It could have been where it was essentially like, I can't believe they traded Drew. Like, what a huge mistake. And everybody loves Drew Holiday right now. So I think there's two parts of this. One is. And we could even get into some of this Trey stuff, because I brought it up with Dyson Daniels, and it wasn't just because Dyson Daniels was incredible last night that it's like, okay, let's. Let's trade Trey. I think it was because the off season just. You kept hearing the rumblings they were going to have to split up the Trey De Jante thing at some point, and they might be more likely to, like, move Trey. And then I think what they heard back is like, okay, this doesn't even make any sense for us. And we have our superstar. At least we have this attraction in Atlanta that the fans are certainly behind, and that's probably good enough for what's likely going to be an around.500 team in the East. So if you look at the Dame part of it, I get it. You know, maybe. Maybe basketball's collectively wrong, but general managers will always default to, like, what can we do to raise our offensive ceiling? And bringing in Damian Lillard in the theory of Giannis and Dame when it's right in the playoffs completely changes what our ceiling is. And Middleton's now the third option, because I think the part that's really easy to forget with the Jrue Holiday story is twofold. There were plenty of games in those series where they needed him to score with Milwaukee, and he's not really that guy. Like, go back and look at some of those shooting numbers, and I think Bucks fans are probably listening to this part being like, thank fucking God somebody finally said this. And when Drew is the fifth option for the Celtics and can take three shots and has the awesome defensive switch, hits the big three, saves the ball going out of bounds, like, that's. It's all positive for him. He's not ever going to be held to the same kind of standard that he was held in Milwaukee. So, yeah, it hasn't worked. And they were hurt going into the playoffs last year, and the coaching turnover is a mess. But there's. There's real sensible basketball reasons they're in this position. And sure, they should have drafted, you know, late. They should have their not even a Tyrese Maxi. But it'd be just nice to have like a really cool rotational guy that you know you're going to extend to a nice number because you hit on one of those picks and now you don't have control of all these different things. I guess the next time a GM has a chance to be risky and add a high ceiling offensive player guy like Dame to change who they are, they're always going to do it because that's that. I don't know. I mean, you've been covering the league longer than I have and I've yet to meet the guy that's like, yeah, I'm going to say no to that option.

[Howard Beck]

Well, especially when you feel like you've already plateaued, right? They won a championship. They have been kind of slowly deteriorating ever since. You know, sometimes losing pieces of that championship roster, sometimes just guys getting older and getting injured.

[Ryan Russillo]

Right.

[Howard Beck]

It's a combination of these things. And that's the battle that every team in this league faces. And especially the elite teams. Look at where Denver is. And I look at the Nuggets and the Bucks in the same, through the same lens quite a bit. Not only because they're two recent champions, but both of them have had similar struggles in just keeping together what made them special. Right. And they both did it with a really thin margin for error is not the right term. Exactly. But bear with me, these are not super teams. We are past the super team era for the most part, even if Darrell is trying to revive it in Philly. And we'll see. But the Bucks and the Nuggets both had one supremely talented, transcendent star. Jokic and Giannis. And around them some guys who flirt with various levels of all star consideration. Middleton and Holiday, Jamal Murray. But these are not super teams. So your margin for error is thinner. And you were essentially an ensemble around a superstar. I talk about this all the time. That is the model right now in the NBA. And so if your superstar slips a notch, you're in trouble because you don't have another star in this model. If you're supporting cast that was just so perfectly calibrated and the chemistry and the vibes were all great and everybody just played their role to the hilt. If any of those guys slip or you lose them, KCP and Bruce Brown, Drew Holiday, you're not the same team anymore. You're just. You're just not. And so the Bucks were already in their defense. The Giannis, Drew Middleton, Lopez, Portis Core had kind of peaked and was on the downward slide. And, yeah, they needed Drew. I'm so glad you brought it up, Priscilla. They needed Drew and his offense and his shot creation way more than the Celtics do, and they needed to do something. It was a big swing. I don't mind the swing. It has not worked out. And the worst part of it is not even. Well, I don't know. I was going to say the worst part is not even. That Dame has not clicked as well there as you'd hoped. It's the fact that Drew went to Boston. It's both things. But also, like, what were you going to do? Could you put conditions on a trade that, by the way, you can't retrade this guy to our chief rivals in the east sides?

[Ryan Russillo]

You read my mind here. Because this is the part of the GM job that I don't think people give any credit to. I think smart people do, but it's just kind of like, oh, well, you could do that. A lot of it is the relationship part of it. And if the two GMs have an awesome relationship, then maybe Horse can ask Cronin if I do this. Because you got to kind of be aware of all the moving pieces. Have you ever heard that it was even discussed? Because then again, too, if you're Portland, you go, once he's ours, you have no say.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I have not heard any rumblings that it would have been discussed, and I'm skeptical that that conversation would happen or would be given much credence by the other gm.

[Ryan Russillo]

Right.

[Howard Beck]

Like, if you're Joe Crow and you're like, dude, I've got a bit of a mess of my own here. I got a lot of stuff to figure out. I'm going to. I'm putting this guy up for the highest bidder. I'm doing whatever I can.

[Ryan Russillo]

Just. But if you're a horse, you go, okay, fine, then now I'm not doing the trade.

[Howard Beck]

I mean, how much badly do you want. Dame, I've got. Listen, listen, I got Miami on hold on the other line here.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, you're right. I mean, Portland. Portland had the power probably in the dynamic. I mean, maybe HORSE tried to do it. I. I would love to know if it. I mean, I think you have to ask, but it would be a really quick thing to go. You don't get to dictate the future transactions. Maybe I'm just thinking of Ange. We're doing this deal with Mikhail 15 years ago.

[Howard Beck]

It's a little different. Right? Like, if the roots run that deep and you could, like, ask your, your longtime buddy and, you know, fellow champion that you, you went through all the wars with and all that kind of stuff. Hey, do me a solid. Just don't trade him to Team X. Like, I don't know. I'm curious if that's ever happened. Like, I'll be curious. Like, I'll be.

[Ryan Russillo]

It has to have happened at some point.

[Howard Beck]

Probably. Yeah.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, probably.

[Howard Beck]

But everybody acts out of self interest in this league ultimately, right? And that's, that's what you expect.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah. I could see Darrell saying absolutely and then making sure that he did the trade. Let's, let's, let's talk, Darrell. Let's talk about this Sixers team, because I put them in the buc bucket of, like, I don't. You show me whatever stats you want to show me. None of it matters. You get Embiid back last night, it didn't look great. To be expected. First real stuff that he's been in. So I don't have a. I don't have a drop of criticism in me and for how he looked, but, you know, Nick Nurse has quite a task here in trying to figure this whole thing out because on paper, they should still be a pretty good team. So where are you with Philly right now?

[Howard Beck]

I. I have been trying to reassure Sixer fans that I know that just everything's not. Everything's fine. But listen, the whole point of the exercise was get Paul George, have a big three in an era when no one has big threes anymore, as we were just discussing, and then let's see what happens, right? You're going to lose a little bit of depth and some flexibility and all this other stuff, and, boy, the back end of Paul George's contract. Yada, yada. We haven't seen Maxie Georgian Embiid together yet. And so I feel like until we do, it's fair to just say take a deep breath. And I still feel that way. I felt that way since opening night for them. You know, Embiid didn't look great last night, but it was his first game since May 2nd. Like, that's six months. Like. Yeah, I mean, he played in the Olympics. I get it. But different. Different demands. I think not having Maxi last night, not having Maxi in general right now is obviously a huge issue. What is Maxi? We got another week or so, I think, before he may be back. I think all the discussions of whether the Sixers can live up to the hype of the off season, and I certainly had them among the contenders in the East. I don't think we can answer that question with any intelligence until Maxi, Paul, Georgian, Embiid are all playing together. And then it becomes, okay, cool. Are they dominant? Great. Can they spend 90% of the rest of the season together on the court so that they can revive themselves in the standings? Maybe have some sort of home court advantage to start the playoffs and just get a rhythm too? Like incorporating Paul George is a significant task for them in the regular season. And we don't. We can't judge any of that until all three of these guys are healthy and playing for some length of time.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, the Maxi numbers are ugly, but I don't really blame them. I think he came in and was like, okay, this is going to be on me to try to keep us above water here a little bit. And then, I mean, you want to talk about volume of shots. I mean, if you played like that for an entire year, then I would think about Maxi a little bit differently. I'm not worried about they're deep. No. I mean, Oubre has never been one of my favorites. He was terrific for him last year. On the other side of that with the Knicks, like, I just think the Knicks are going to figure this out. The Mitchell Robinson thing's a huge component of them giving you the different look when they need it. I don't have the updated numbers in front of me. I meant to do that this morning. But the rim protection numbers for the Knicks when Katt was at the rim were awful, which is to be expected. I think it was 28 of 36 by opposing team, specifically when Katt was at the rim. There have been times this year where it's like, okay, it's a little turn stylish. However, last night, it's funny with Cat defensively, if it's right in front of him and it's a size size thing, it's actually better than you would think. I thought that he had moments against Jokic in that series where he just, you're not going to stop Jokic, but he's making him work. I thought he fought his ass off last night. It was almost funny because he and Embiid have all this history and then they were hugging it out after the game. So I don't know if that was just Embiid was so tired they didn't want to talk to him or if there was some level of respect. I just, I love when it's right. Even with MC Bride, who has become a guy now where like, do I. Does this always go in with Miles McBride because it feels like it. There's it. Even with Brun's numbers down, could you just expect because of the opportunities with the depth around it. Yes. The rim thing is glaring. Maybe it's fixed within the roster. I know Precious has been out too. I just like them even if it's not been. Maybe the star people expected.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah, I mean there's a. There's a thousand different elements here, not least of which is that this team is kind of new. When you think about it, like you look out there and you go, oh, there's Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart. But like OG Anunoby came in, you know, two months or whatever it was into last season and that didn't play the whole time because of course he was hurt for quite a bit of it and didn't finish the playoffs. Mikhail Bridges is new. Carl Anthony Towns is new. They don't have Isaiah HARTENSTEIN and Dante DiVincenzo and I. Let me just hit that for a minute. Priscillo. I don't think enough attention has been paid. As we've all talked about the Knicks, we keep talking about who they got and whether Katt can be a full time center until Mitchell Robinson gets back. Will they have enough rim protection? All these things matter. Chemistry between Kat and Brunson, the state of the offense, the depth. But the biggest concern I've had about this team since the summer was that losing Isaiah Hartenstein and they didn't really have much choice there.

[Ryan Russillo]

Right.

[Howard Beck]

They did their best to try to keep him. He took the offer that he thought was better for him, but like, you know, DiVincenzo's like, they voluntarily gave him up in the trade. Right, to get Cat. But Hartenstein was the guy they just couldn't keep. And the two of those guys embodied so much of what made the Knicks special last season. And not only them, obviously, like it's a collective thing. It starts with Jalen Brunson. Josh Hart is a big part of this. But when you think about the moments they had in the playoffs, the overachieving, the six man rotation because nobody, no, no one's standing anymore. And DiVincenzo's coming up with all these big shots and Hartenstein is grabbing seemingly every offensive rebound and creating all these second opportunities and his playmaking, those are things they have not been able to replace. So Cat or no Cat, for all of Cat's flaws. Mikhail Bridges. Oh, hitching his jump shot. Oh, you know, could Bridges be what he was in Phoenix and all That I think a lot of this is about what they're missing and not so much what they're going to get from the new guys and give that some time to settle in, I think. But I just wonder if there's a certain element here that you just can't replicate because Hartenstein brought things to the table that Cat can't do that Mitchell Robinson can't do. And Mitchell Robinson's got to get healthy first. And, yeah, the bench is really thin. And, yeah, McBride's looked great, but he's the only guy off the bench that I think Tibbs trusts for any length of time. And, you know, for all the criticism of Tibbs in tight rotations, like, I kind of don't blame him in this situation. Like, I look at their bench and I'm not sure I'd trust any of them either. And, you know, this is what happens when you go all in on a bunch of really expensive guys. And the last thought here is OG and Adobe played 41 minutes last night, and he's. It's not. It's not every night, but he played 41 and Cap played 38, and Hart played 37. It's early in the season, but, like, Ananobi and Towns both have pretty extensive injury histories. They already have depth issues. I just. I would worry about their. Their durability.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, you're talking about Tibbs in the short rotations. I would tell you at the beginning of the year, I think Daddy's 28 minutes on the season are the most surprising 28 minutes in NBA history. I was like, holy shit. I was like, tibbs is good, and I loved him before the draft. I was like, he's going to play him. And if there was a poster child of somebody that Tibbs would not be playing, it would have been him. And it was like, all right, let's roll it out there. But you're right, because when I watch Dallas, even though they've gone through this stretch of the last week, I'm pretty sure everybody kind of knows what they're all supposed to be doing. So I'm not worried about Dallas. The Phoenix thing is. Is cool because prior to the Durant part of it, I mean, he's playing about as well as anybody in the league. And Beal was really good last night, but then I think left the game for. For that stretch against Utah. But I don't have a ton on, even though I watched it. Little sprinkle of Collier looking good out there. But I. I'll look at teams that are trying to find themselves. And your OG point is perfect because they still didn't even have that. But at least they knew it was like, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to rebound the shit out ball with the guards and Defensenza is never going to miss any shots. But Bruns has probably taken like 20 plus and getting to the line and everything's kind of around him. And the great thing is with the depth around it is that you shouldn't be asking Brunson to have to do that. But now it's something new. And that new thing has not been identified yet. So I think that's a great point. I want to stay on that game. Only for the Embiid question, have you ever been shoved by a player?

[Howard Beck]

Thankfully, no. No. But I will say about what happened between Joel Embiid and the Philly columnist Marcus Hayes, confrontations do happen. It's part of the job, right? If you're now Marcus Hayes is a columnist, so he's not there every day with the Sixers. And so I don't know what the level of familiarity is between Sixer players and Marcus, but as you know, I covered the Lakers for seven years. Shaq and Kobe era, I covered the Knicks for better part of nine years. When you're on the beat and you're in the locker room every day, and as a beat writer, you're much more news reporter than columnist, right? I'm not firing off hot takes, not that I ever really do anyway, but I'm not firing off hot takes and then walking in the next day to face the guy after I shredded him, because we don't really do that. But I did write stories that are tough on these guys at times, or it was a choice of words or it's just an observation about the way things are going and they don't like the portrayal. So things happen. Shaq Shaq got annoyed enough with me one day at a Dallas, at a shoot around in Dallas. I don't remember what I what I said or what the conversation was. The only time I got hands on me by Shaq was I annoyed him just enough that he playfully, I want to make this very clear, playfully reached down, picked me up and threw me over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes. And suddenly, and I've got my notepad and pen in one hand and my recorder in the other hand and I'm like basically looking at Shaq's ass because he's flipped me over his shoulder and then he put me down after maybe Twirling me around or something. I can't remember exactly what happened. It's all a blur. And this was 20 years ago, but that happened 25 years ago.

[Ryan Russillo]

So he picked you up, Was that. I guess I'm like, guys, go ahead, Go ahead.

[Howard Beck]

I'm standing on the court in front of him. So, yeah, just imagine him reaching down. I'm like, a tad under six feet. I'm about 152 pounds or whatever. He just reached down to just. That was nothing to him.

[Ryan Russillo]

Sinewy, though.

[Howard Beck]

Yeah. Flip me over his shoulder. I got off easier than Tim Kawakami, who at the time was at the LA Times, where Kawakami had a streak of asking Shaq questions that were just. Shaq was just in one of his funks. They happened a lot. And so every day, Shaq would be like, ask me a good question. Ask me a good question. Actually, probably like, ask me a good fucking question. And Kawakami would just keep coming at him with whatever. Tim never backed away from anybody. And one day, Tim asks a question, and Shaq does this mock thing where he, like, he looks up and his face brightens, and he went. Kawakami asked a good question. Kawakami asked. And he jumps up and he grabs Tim in like this. Basically bare. Tim just disappears into Shaq, and Shaq starts pogo. Sticking him around the locker room. Again, playful, not. Not a confrontation in the sense of shoving somebody.

[Ryan Russillo]

This was.

[Howard Beck]

No one was threatened. No one was worried. Kawakami was not harmed.

[Ryan Russillo]

But.

[Howard Beck]

But that happened. But, yeah, those are the only times Horace Grant at one point grabbed me from behind and scared the crap out of me because the. We'd hit the zero mark on our locker room time pregame, so it was time for us to get out. And usually a PR person says, hey, guys, time to go. Horace Grant just, like, bear hugged me from behind once to say, but picked me up. Kind of like, you gotta go. But it's stuff like that that's as physical as it's gotten. That is a very different thing. Most of the confrontations I've been involved in that were more tense were just guys mfing me, and then we talk it out.

[Ryan Russillo]

I want to end on Cleveland because I didn't have a game from last night. I did get to see them live in New Orleans. Shout out to the Smoothie King Center.

[Howard Beck]

Did you. Did you have a smoothie at the Smoothie King Center?

[Ryan Russillo]

I did not. I had one Coors Light, though, and, boy, did it taste good. Let's see. So we know they're number one on offense, they're eighth on defense. They're the best shooting team in the NBA right now. They're doing all of this without Streus. That was supposed to add to some of this stuff, but I think Garland coming back fully healthy, the Mitchell stuff being absolved. I still don't know that the Mobley Allen thing is ever going to look the way that I want to see it. And you know, watching him live, I was paying attention specifically to like how Mobley was setting up. Like I wasn't even watching the ball for a while because I was like, how do they play? You know, Mobley, okay, he's in the corner when Allen's in. And it's. And it sucks. I like both players so much. Fourth quarter minutes, you can look at those a little bit and how they're. They're splitting it up a little. I think we both know it's hard for. They could be 40 and O. And I probably still am going to like Boston in the playoffs. But give me the sense of what you're willing to think is possible for the Cavs.

[Howard Beck]

Obviously they're far exceeding everybody's expectations. But I will say of the thousands of things I've already gotten wrong about this NBA season, I did pick Kenny Atkinson as my preseason coach of the year. Because I thought just knowing Kenny a little bit and given his background, you know, coaching under Mike D'Antoni here in New York, coaching under Steve Kerr and just kind of the offensive innovation aspect of this, I thought that Kenny might unlock some things. I think it's actually a lot more about all due respect to Kenny and I think he's done a great job. But I think a lot of this is like Garland's kind of taking a leap and it may not be a stratospheric leap, but like there's, there's. He's reaching another level there and even just in his confidence. And I think some of that is him and Donovan Mitchell kind of figuring out their, their on court relationship too. Like that was the one concern that I think everybody had when they got Mitchell was like, well, two smaller playmaking ball dominant guards. Not usually a recipe for great success in this, in this league. And I think, I think that's still an open question. But Garland looks really good. He looks really decisive, really confident and that matters. I think Mobley is looking pretty aggressive right now too. More so than I remember him being the last season or so. Accoro's become a really good three point shooter and you know that matters. And with Max Struse, you know, once he's back, like they, they'll actually have some decent depth. 12, 0 is always real in the sense that like winning 12 in a row at any point in the season. Forget 12. 0 to start a season.

[Ryan Russillo]

If you.

[Howard Beck]

And 12 in a row at any point in NBA season, it's, it's real. It doesn't mean you're a contender necessarily. You still have to assess how the Cavs stack up against the Celtics primarily and if they were to make it out of the east, how they stack up against whoever, Oklahoma, Dallas, the Warriors. I don't know. But like there's still. And Cleveland's playing Boston a week from yesterday. Yeah, next Tuesday. I think like that's going to be fascinating.

[Ceruti]

We'll.

[Howard Beck]

We'll put too much on it. It's only November. But I want to see that.

[Ryan Russillo]

We're doing a three hour special on it and then we're going to try to get Sam Merrill because we want to just make sure that we shout out Bountiful's finest out of Utah. So yeah, we didn't even mention him in the breakdown, so we got to make sure we do that. You know, one of those guys, he's not just a shooter. Like, look out of Sam gets you late in the shot clock one on one open side. Like he's going to go at you, he's going to go at you. He's a big fan of the pod. So we want to make sure we mentioned him. That was, that was good. That was good. Because the Garland thing is like the, if you want to go the advanced jump on this a month in, not even a month in here. It is significant, especially from where he was last year. But I'd say it was trending more in line with who he was last season because there was the massive dip. I mean if you look at the efficiency stuff, he's completely different guy in 23, 24 than he was the years prior to it. So I do think Kenny has unlocked some stuff and I think whatever it was mild drama with Cleveland. But back to kind of the injury part of it when they went 171 through that stretch last year to remember, like there were guys missing in within that stretch.

[Howard Beck]

Yes.

[Ryan Russillo]

So it wasn't like, okay, the entire group is here and this is what they. In a way it's actually a little bit more impressive. But I think all of the Cleveland topics from last season, we. We're not even doing them anymore because Kenny is there. Mitchell is signed. Garland is healthy and hopefully the health remains and I can't wait until next Tuesday against Boston and I can't wait the real ones with Howard back in on the lineup with Roger Bell out multiple times a week here on our Ringer podcast network. So thanks man. Appreciate it, Howard.

[Howard Beck]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Ryan Russillo]

This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. Thursday Night Football is on and it's only on Prime Video. This Thursday, the AFC's oldest rivalry is rekindled as the Pittsburgh Steelers visit the Cleveland Browns. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with Football's Best Party TNF tonight presented by Verizon live from Cleveland. Not a Prime member? Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial and you can cancel at any time. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. This episode is brought to you by UberEats. It's football season and UberEats is dropping undefeated deals on all your game day favorites this week.

[Howard Beck]

Score.

[Ryan Russillo]

Buy one, get one free Crunch rep Supremes from Taco Bell only on Uber Eats. Craving even more. We've got you covered with game day deals on pizza, burgers, wings and more all season long. Uber Eats official on demand food delivery partner of the NFL. Order Taco Bell for game day now through 1117 24. Second item of equal or lesser value. Terms apply. See app for detail.

[Howard Beck]

You want details?

[Ceruti]

Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

[Ryan Russillo]

What's up?

[Kyle]

I have a ridiculous house in the south fork.

[Howard Beck]

I have every toy you can possibly.

[Ryan Russillo]

Imagine and best of all, kids, I am liquid.

[Ceruti]

So now you know what's possible.

[Ryan Russillo]

Let me tell you what's required. You know, it's good vibes on the pod today. I don't know what it is. No reason for them potentially, but I have them. And Kyle looks trim and fit. Thanks.

[Ceruti]

What'd you do hitting the links today? I'm excited.

[Ryan Russillo]

Oh yeah. I putter got fucked up yesterday.

[Ceruti]

I got two tough.

[Ryan Russillo]

Okay, yeah, I know, I know. I don't mean to do this to you, but can I have the better putter back? Never do that. But I did. You know the rare undo the golf bag on the golf cart move that buddies do to each other, then I think they stop around 35, but.

[Kyle]

What?

[Ceruti]

So that it falls off when you pull off or something? What?

[Ryan Russillo]

I somehow did it to myself. Oh, and up two clubs.

[Kyle]

Wow.

[Ryan Russillo]

Wow. Well, it's the last time I do this. I showed up. No warm up. I was on the phone with our staff and no offense, Kyle, you weren't on the Call. It would be a waste of time. I'm sure you were. Yeah, I'm sure you were thrilled. You weren't on it. And then I just didn't give myself any sort of window to stretch or anything. Frantic on the phone, get the tee time, go up to the. Got a ranger to check me in, whatever. And then I didn't have any balls that were, like, available, so I had to undo everything and then slice a driver 280 yards to the right and then go back to the cart to be like, jesus Christ. Like, this is such a terrible start. And then I pulled off and then up my clubs, and then a guy. This is a pretty reckless course. Then a guy pulled up, like, three holes in with, I think, a fairway wood, a putter and two wedges. Was like, I'm just going to play it.

[Ceruti]

Oh, okay.

[Ryan Russillo]

No. He was like, okay, yeah, yeah, good instincts. He was like, I'm just going to play with you guys for a little bit. Like, okay.

[Howard Beck]

Jesus.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah. But I was by myself, so I didn't. I wasn't a ruling class moment. So, yeah. Ruined two clubs. Fucking psyched. But I'm still in a good mood, so that's how resilient I am. Look at that. So Rudy can't believe it. He just did an eye roll. Like, I would have usually fucked you up for a couple of days.

[Kyle]

They would have. I just. I just love that. I just love that golf. Priscillo is just. He's here and he's excited, and you're a happier person because of it, because, you know, for so long, you used to hate the golf talk, and I don't hate it at all. But it's just now we're just letting it fly, and I love it.

[Ryan Russillo]

I hated it on radio interviews when we had eight minutes fair.

[Kyle]

We have more time. We could. We can get into our golf endeavors.

[Ryan Russillo]

I guess, but have you ever in your life cared if fucking Lin Swan is split in the fairway?

[Kyle]

No. Yeah, they all hit him straight, partner, on the way out. Yeah, no, I don't.

[Ryan Russillo]

I don't.

[Kyle]

We don't need that. I'm with you, but it's just funny come full circle.

[Ryan Russillo]

You're right. And I just did it. But it's a podcast, so I think we're allowed to kind of go wherever, but. Yeah, Kyle looks really good. You playing a private course today? What's going on?

[Ceruti]

No, no, just doing. I'm usually a public guy. Tate Frazier will bring me to Braemar every once in a while, but today we Are hitting. Hitting debelle.

[Ryan Russillo]

I can't wait.

[Ceruti]

Oh, Balboa.

[Ryan Russillo]

Sorry.

[Ceruti]

Gotta keep him straight here.

[Ryan Russillo]

Balboa. Okay. All right. All right. Well, let's get to some emails here. First and foremost, thanks to everybody. Murder 1600. Wesley Snipes. Not Denzel. Hey, it's been a while since I've seen that movie. I mixed up my dudes. I love Denzel. Back in the day.

[Kyle]

No, everybody loved Denzel. I saw somebody was doing like a. There was a top five Denzel movies making the rounds yesterday, and I was looking at everybody's lists, and, like, Inside man for me, has to be on there. It's probably. It's definitely a top. I don't know if it's number one, if it's definitely top five. So anyone who didn't have that on there was immediately out.

[Ryan Russillo]

Inside Man.

[Kyle]

Oh, yeah. Love Inside Man. Clive Owen. Love Clive Owen.

[Ceruti]

Sneaky, sneaky career. Not sneaky, but, like, more. More bangers than you think for Clive.

[Kyle]

I agree.

[Ryan Russillo]

You didn't even mention Kim Director. Yeah, I mean, Kim Director is the.

[Kyle]

Children of Men, one of the most underrated movies of the last however many years.

[Ryan Russillo]

Okay, but wait a minute.

[Ceruti]

Right there. That's so great. I love that.

[Kyle]

What does that even mean?

[Ceruti]

I don't know. I can't really put my finger. It is a great movie, but it's like one of those. I don't know. It just makes sense that you would. That you would say that.

[Ryan Russillo]

Wait, did you just. Wesley Snipes. Denzel. Like, the way I. Denzel Wesley Snipes?

[Ceruti]

In what way?

[Ryan Russillo]

So who do you think is an inside man?

[Ceruti]

Oh, were you saying man? Did you mean man on Fire?

[Ryan Russillo]

No, Denzel's definitely in that one.

[Kyle]

Inside man is Clive Owen and Denzel Washington.

[Ryan Russillo]

Okay. I thought perhaps when I said I love Wesley Snipes and you were like, who doesn't? Then it just pivoted right back into Denzel.

[Kyle]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Ryan Russillo]

Okay. All right. I was going to say. All right, well, I just didn't want it to happen all over again because, you know, somebody was like, yeah, isn't Flip Wilson in that? Like, what's going on with you guys? All right, let's get to a couple emails. Help lives. So we had one of these. I like these when they're actually quick and efficient. I was listening to the guy talk about the blessing he has of walking away from the corporate world earlier than most. I want to share my perspective. I'm a financial planner, and many of my clients are leaving law firms, accounting firms, or other corporate jobs where you work a lot of hours. I find that people will retire early only to end up working back in their field within five years. Not because they need to financially, but because they are all caps board. You can only travel so often, play so many rounds of golf, et cetera. Especially when you don't have other retired friends. What I recommend to clients is they make a list of things they love, things they like, and things that they hate. Once they create the list, go through the different topics to figure out activities associated with those. It sounds really cheesy, but I find that it helps clients identify passions that can follow that they can follow while retired. For some, it's opening a small baking business because they love to bake. I have a client who works twice a week as an usher at his local minor league baseball stadium because he loves baseball.

[Ceruti]

Usher, though, I don't know.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I'm just surprised.

[Ryan Russillo]

The minor league place is like. And then they asked him to work 80 hours a week.

[Kyle]

The next week he was making sales calls.

[Ryan Russillo]

He died. But he had. He got a jacket. The key is finding something that will make you stimulated, keep you getting out of bed in the morning and continuing to reevaluate as your retirement progresses. Sorry for the long email. Not a long email. Great email and we appreciate it. Kyle, what would you do? This is what we should have done, Kyle. Retirement, Kyle. Game it out for us WOM style.

[Ceruti]

Well, I. I think I said this last episode like, strictly ride along lawnmowers. I'm not doing the edges. There is. There's no weed whackers in my truck. It's just that I'm popping in my headphones and I'm going to work. I'll be out of here in an hour. And we're doing the next house. I think that may be what I would do. I watched too much bar rescue to think I could casually open up a bar and just enjoy it. And honestly, I'd probably be the guy when Jon Taffer walks through the doors and I'm sitting there with like, yeah, that guy's going to get yelled at because he's been. They've been watching him drink in this bar, having a good time all day, and then Jon Taffer's going to start screaming at me, you know, six beers in. So I don't think I. It's a nice idea, but I don't think I could pull it off. Like, you'd have to get super lucky for be like, yeah, we opened a bar and it's been great. For eight years and. And getting ready to sell it. I think I'd have to aim lower.

[Ryan Russillo]

The amount of money that I would pay to watch John Taffer show up to Kyle's bar to rescue it is. You can't come up with a number high enough, you think you were going to survive on poppers in the cigarette machine?

[Ceruti]

I really wonder what it feels like when he's screaming so much that he's, like, gurgling. And there's like all of your, you know, your 15 regular customers that are keeping you afloat or just watching it. I really wonder what it's like to be that guy.

[Ryan Russillo]

How many beers is that?

[Ceruti]

You're killing your family. Yeah, yeah. You let your.

[Ryan Russillo]

What's your draft overhead?

[Ceruti]

How do you sleep at night?

[Ryan Russillo]

You know? But the thing is, is I think. And then he would do the pivot to the emotional healing after the tough one.

[Ceruti]

It's a formula. It's definitely a formula.

[Ryan Russillo]

He would pull you aside and be like, so let me get this straight. The place you worked at previously, your uncle wouldn't hang out with you, and then the other pod that you were on, the host never hung out with you, and then he puts his arm in your shoulder. You've had a lot of rejection in your life, haven't you?

[Ceruti]

I'm looking forward to the last five minutes of the episode. He's like, four days ago, do you think we'd be here?

[Howard Beck]

Huh?

[Ryan Russillo]

The nod that Kyle is doing right now is so. It's the best Taffer I've ever seen. And you don't even have the voice down.

[Ceruti]

Thanks.

[Ryan Russillo]

That Taffer nod that you just threw at us, that's. That was like, AI.

[Ceruti]

Yeah. It's the wide eyes. You gotta tilt the head a little bit.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah.

[Ceruti]

Very intense.

[Ryan Russillo]

Right. I think there's guys that want to throw hands with Taffer. But when he does the nod and his eyes are all over the place and he's sort of talking to nobody, and he's like, schenectady. He's like, the Dutch. He's like, let's start making waffles here. We're going to wrap pint glass waffle. He goes, that's something locals would be interested in, wouldn't they? And he's not looking at anyone. And no one's saying yes. They're like, we're fucking opening up an entire place based on waffles because of Dutch immigration.

[Ceruti]

Right. Tony P's Tavern is now like the Cobble Pot or something.

[Ryan Russillo]

And they're like, yeah, right, right. And there's some guy with a mop in the corner, like, nodding. And he didn't even speak English, just.

[Kyle]

Going like, yes, sounds good.

[Ryan Russillo]

Maybe I can't. I have a love hate thing with Taffer, but that's the old bartending thing in me. I respect the hustle in the show and all that, so I'm not. I'm not hating on it, but I think I even fucked with the show a couple times on Twitter and somebody from the show, like, tweeted back at me like, that they totally got what I was doing. So I respect. But God, I think we need to do Kyle. Like, we got to do. We got to figure out a way to monetize that taff or not that you just threw at us.

[Ceruti]

He posted something on Twitter the other day, like, clearly promoing the shows come out Sundays. But by the way, seasons back where he was, he's on a private plane. Not he's like looking out the window. And the caption was like, somewhere, some. Someplace right now. A bar. Feeling the heat. All right, good.

[Ryan Russillo]

Oh, I. I'm on it.

[Ceruti]

Good.

[Ryan Russillo]

Because X knew. X knew that it was for me. Even if I wasn't plugged in.

[Ceruti]

I retweeted it too. Maybe you saw it from through my. Through our.

[Ryan Russillo]

Maybe that's what it was.

[Ceruti]

That could have been it. You're welcome.

[Ryan Russillo]

All right. We still haven't read one email yet, so 10 minutes. Probably use. Use some help. Okay, this is. This is a good one. Okay. My boyfriend stopped wearing deodorant. I'm a five foot one female woman. We love you. No real gym stats, but I run to stay in shape. My boyfriend loves the pod. He saves all the life advice segments so we can listen together.

[Ceruti]

This will be fun.

[Ryan Russillo]

A bit of a backstory, my boyfriend and I. What's that?

[Ceruti]

This will be fun then.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah. Enjoy, buddy. A bit of a backstory. My boyfriend and I have been living together for two and a half years. Back in May, he got a new job. That's remote. So he's had a transition to a work from home lifestyle. I wonder the divorce rate has gone up with work from home.

[Ceruti]

Has.

[Ryan Russillo]

Right? Must have.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Russillo]

That's not even debatable.

[Ceruti]

Don't even throw me your one bedroom apartment.

[Ryan Russillo]

Your zag number. Do you know how much you have to like somebody to work from home and be in a one bedroom and be in the city? Didn't somebody do that and then bought two as a second cat? And the guy was like, am I in the wrong? We're like, fucking pack up, dude. Because he doesn't really see anyone except for me most days. He stopped wearing deodorant on a daily basis. He really only puts it on if we were going to see our friends or if we were going to a restaurant bar. Honestly, I didn't really notice the first couple months. But now when I get home from work, I can definitely smell him when he's standing next to me. He's a very health conscious person, probably the cleanest eater I've ever met. And he works out twice a day. Twice a day. What is this guy? Sosa wonder he stinks. Yeah. He claims it's better for his health if he doesn't use deodorant because they're full of chemicals. I saw a thing on mouthwash the other day that made me think I was going to die in a week. So I don't know.

[Kyle]

When I went to la, I forgot deodorant and so I had to go to the CVS and you know, I was obviously locked up. So I had some time to like process like what I should buy. And they had a thing up that was like aluminum free. So I googled it and I was like, damn, like if I've been putting on like stuff that's killing me for like my whole life with this aluminum deodorant thing. So I bought the non aluminum one and it was terrible. It was awful.

[Howard Beck]

Terrible.

[Kyle]

It didn't work. Yeah, it didn't work. Like it even. Just like the texture of it was off. So it is bad for you. But I don't know, I guess you just gotta. It's kind of a trade in.

[Ceruti]

Yeah, you look too hard at anything, you start finding reasons. So that's how I look.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah. I don't know what to do with any of this info because if you really want to dig into it, it's kind of like stats for anything or like political arguments. Like do you want to find something that will make something look bad? Well, here you go, here's the Internet. Get to work. And you can be bummed out by, by lunch. You can be devastated. Right. So I don't. Would you Rather live until 85 and smell or stink and live until 78?

[Ceruti]

78 is a long time.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I would agree. Being known as the guy who stinks is just like, that's just. I'd rather die early, to be honest.

[Ceruti]

Guy in high school, his name's Smelly Chris. That's a tough one.

[Kyle]

Oh man.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, Smelly Chris. What's he up to?

[Ceruti]

Think we think we all Know, stinking.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah. So as this was playing out, I started thinking, well, aren't there options? But Cerule just test drove one for a little while and it didn't work out.

[Kyle]

My.

[Ryan Russillo]

Let me, let me finish the email and then you can give us your full non chemical breakdown. He claims it's better for his health, which I don't necessarily disagree with, but I have to like sleep next to him and I'd rather not smell his bo. We have an ongoing joke about it with our friends and family because it is kind of funny. So. God, they really get along.

[Kyle]

So he can't be shamed into like not doing this. He's already being shamed. Yeah.

[Ryan Russillo]

We need to settle this debate and we've agreed that whatever you say, we'll go with. Should he put on deodorant if he's work from home or should I get used to his natural aroma? His words. This guy's clever too. I would say just put some fucking deodorant on, man. But how would you feel if she stunk?

[Ceruti]

Yeah. Wait a second. So wait, are you ruining the fucking bed too, man? Like that's, that's, you know, that's not good. I was going to say that stinks, but that was too on the nose. Like, you know, on the couch watching something together and you're like, oh, yeah, I did it again. But if you're like on the couch watching them together, you're like, that's gross. But the bed's supposed to be kind of a safe space. And if he's getting in the bed.

[Ryan Russillo]

Showering funky, maybe he's showering before it.

[Ceruti]

Two showers a day, guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yeah, I'm glad that they agreed. Whatever we say goes because I was, I was building all this stuff in my head, like, oh, you could walk in, you know, come home, be like, oh, what's that smell? But that's not the first thing you want from your partner when they get home is like, it fucking stinks in here. So I'm glad that they decided to skip all that.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah.

[Ceruti]

I say, I'd say you just have to agree on the deodorant. Maybe both sides take a vote and we'll help if we can. But I think that's the thing. Or you just got to take two showers a day. But you can't just say this.

[Kyle]

Even that might not.

[Ceruti]

Joe Rogan says, I'll be healthier if I don't ever put deodorant on. Or whoever said It.

[Ryan Russillo]

Do you get a lot of your grooming advice from Joe Rogan?

[Ceruti]

Oh, you're asking me? No.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, no, I'm actually curious. I was not a joke.

[Ceruti]

Now I cherry pick the guests. I don't really know what's going on at large.

[Ryan Russillo]

So what happened with you, Saruti? You're not a smelly guy though in general, are you?

[Kyle]

Nope, I'm not. At least I don't think I am. But. So my mother in law is like a big like earthy, crunchy, you know, all. She's been organic for a long time buys like all these different products and foods and she bought like all of us. This recycled toilet paper, natural quote unquote deodorant, which is just like, like it just doesn't, it doesn't work. It actually sometimes makes you smell worse, I feel like. And so like I, I'm. I'm on board with like, you know, the microplastics, they're a problem. Like, I get it. Like, I don't know what to do about it.

[Ceruti]

We got rid of cutting boards for us.

[Kyle]

Yeah, it probably is. It does sound like you got to.

[Ryan Russillo]

Chuck the cutting boards. They're gone.

[Kyle]

Chuck the cutting board. We got wooden cutting boards now. You can get wood in your food too, but I guess that's the lesser of two evils. What else have we done? I mean like the aerosol stuff, we try not to buy that because it's bad for the environment. But there's only so much you can do. Like, there's only like you have to live life. You have to exist as a person in life. And if you are going to stink as a human being and impact other people's days, including the person that you love, can't you just make a little bit of concession? Can you just maybe put it on every once in a while? You don't even have to do it every day. Just every once in a while. Or just like mix in the two, mix in one that's like more natural and mix in a real one. Like I just feel like you can't walk around stinking. You can't do that because not only is your girl not going to like it, she doesn't like it. But you know, God forbid that doesn't work out and she ends up breaking up you because of this. Like, people don't like smelly people. So I think you gotta smelly crazy. You gotta make. Yeah. So I think you gotta make a concession here. Dude, I'm sorry. I'm glad that they've decided that whatever we decide goes. And, you know, if she doesn't like this, then you kind of gotta. You kind of gotta wear deodorant, man.

[Ceruti]

It's already a joke that lands in like multiple circles in his life. It's already a joke that people are all like, yeah, that's a big deal.

[Kyle]

He's not ashamed, apparently.

[Ceruti]

Yeah, I know.

[Ryan Russillo]

Doesn't care.

[Ceruti]

You gotta get. You gotta just do this for them. You don't have to get it. Sounds like you're not going to get it. You don't have to get it. Just. Just trust everyone else on this one.

[Ryan Russillo]

Just. I'm going to buy deodorant today, actually. If I die, I die. All right, Wife is a serial waster. Let's run through this one. High wise counsel, young dad. So my only relevant gym status, I continue showing up with the 5am grind. So he doesn't have any stats he wants to share, but his only stat is he's getting there at 5am to put in the work. Love it. I'm writing you to address an area of frustration with my wife. We've been married a little over three years, have a solid marriage overall. But one thing that really grinds my gears is she's a cereal. Note the spelling waster. I'm talking food, coffee, various drinks, et cetera. There are constantly cups of coffee left out, 3/4 full. Protein shakes that she only takes a few sips from fill her car floor. That's so fucking gross.

[Ceruti]

That's tough.

[Kyle]

Not great.

[Ceruti]

Water bottles are one thing, but that.

[Ryan Russillo]

Stuff, well, dude, anybody that's ever mixed up some protein and then forgotten about it, and I don't know why you wouldn't finish it all. What's the point of making it? You're just going to waste the protein.

[Ceruti]

That's not cheap.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, but I mean, you want like, Aliens, the sequel. You open up your card and you're like, what happened in here?

[Ceruti]

It's like how the last of us started.

[Ryan Russillo]

It's crazy. Yeah, your peanut butter hazelnut fumes. We constantly throw away leftovers. She just didn't feel like eating. And yes, our closet is full of clothes and shoes that she doesn't wear. We have a kid in daycare, which is expensive. So every time I see her wasting something, it adds to my frustration and stress about money. How do you recommend I address this lightly? But the thing is, she doesn't. She doesn't really get it, man. I mean, I know who this person is. I mean, it can border on selfishness to like an even more nefarious thing where, you know, there's certainly the retail element of the anticipation of the order, the excitement that the order is placed, the figuring out how soon the order is coming. And then when it shows up and it's all so empty, it doesn't really mean anything. What's awesome is acquiring things that you're going to use and that you love. Like, this is incredible. Like, you should have to have some rule, especially as you get a little bit older and the closet gets full. It's like, I'm not buying something just to buy something anymore. I have to be in love with this. The coffee thing is like fine. Right. The protein thing is sort of gross. But when it starts coming into, like, significantly wasting money, maybe you don't break down the boxes for a month and don't say anything. And then she'll see the visual of all the boxes that have to be broken down and see that it looks like a warehouse from Raiders of the Lost Ark. And she'll just go, oh, no, like, what am I doing? But if she's not looking at the credit card bill, maybe you could do the bills with her if you're not already doing that at this point. I run into this. I hear about this from both parties all the time with my married friends, where you think you'd want to just stop spending anything once you started having kids and making stuff a little bit easier. The food and the leftovers, like, hey, I'll get this wrapped up, then I'll eat it. Like, to me it's not great, but that's far more excusable. The coffee cup thing is far more excusable than some of the. More. I don't want to call it hoarder mentality because that's not necessarily what you're saying. But. But knowing how that works, like, there's a difference between just being wasteful with the food and the coffee. The. The equator of this then becomes the acquisition and the value of possessions that are essentially worthless to your day to day. But you can't help but think that you're losing when you don't have the possessions anymore, even if you're not really using them. So I don't know if that's where you're veering into there, but that turned like, that starts to become something that you feel like you're never going to be able to defeat. And I hope that's not the case for you because it sucks.

[Ceruti]

Yeah, I think you might have to. I've got a touch of this in my life. It's mostly with leftover food and stuff. And I changed my thinking on it because at first I was like, look, it's not fair. I'm doing the right thing here, and you're not. Look at this. This is the last four times we went out to dinner. You didn't do anything with it. And then I was just like. Like you said, Ryan, she doesn't get it. She's not doing it on purpose. She just. It's just a thing that it's a part of the way this household works. And I could bitch about it, or I can resent it, or I'll just go in there and throw it out. So, like, you know, that's just the one fridge thing. Maybe what you could do is just start grabbing her cup of coffee when, you know, she's not done with it yet and just be like, oh, I was just getting ahead of it. You know, I mean, maybe that's. Maybe that's not the hell.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, the fuck with her approach that we've talked about with colleges. Right? Thing. Yeah. I mean, this is. This is the college roommate thing all over again, where you could just start taking our cups and stacking them, like, on her vanity.

[Ceruti]

Well, no, I meant. I meant, like, putting it in the dishwasher. Just be like, you know, I'm just trying to get ahead of this or whatever. But that could be maybe viewed as passive aggressive. But I changed my outlook on some of this stuff because it would drive me crazy. And, you know, she's great. I like her. Love her, in fact. So it's just like, am I going to let this, you know, get to me? You could do that in another way. Like, you should go through the garbage bag, throw a couple of your shirts in there. Be like, hey, I'm getting a donation bag together. What do we got in this closet? Just, like, you know, doing it in a helpful way rather than, you know, it's like, really, another fucking sweatshirt, you know? So I think there's just, like, smart ways to approach it maybe, you know, we were talking inception recently. Like, make it seem a little bit like her idea or that you need help with something. And it's like, I'm trying to think what we should do to throw out some of these. Whatever.

[Kyle]

Down. Yeah.

[Ceruti]

Yeah. I was like, I just don't know which ones we should get rid of.

[Ryan Russillo]

This is.

[Ceruti]

What are your thoughts?

[Ryan Russillo]

Like, tell her you want to move to a different house. Then she gets all excited and she cleans up, because it'd be easier to move and be like, just kidding. I can't afford it.

[Kyle]

Yeah, number crunch. The number is not going to work out. I'm with you, Kyle. We've gotten into a really bad. And I say we. It's not me, it's my wife lover. But we've been just kind of like very wasteful with food recently. And it, to be honest with you, it really pisses me off. Like, it really pisses me off. I don't like food waste hot seat.

[Ceruti]

I'm the leftover region.

[Kyle]

No, it's not hot seat. And it has nothing to do. I mentioned. You mentioned, like, you know, working from home thing. We both kind of work from home and it's fine. We don't live in a one bedroom apartment, so that's. That probably helps. But you know, like, we'll go to Trader Joe's, right? And you know, perfect example, there's like a pizza salad. It's like new. It looks cool on this thing. And I'm like, are you gonna eat this? We're going to eat this. And she's like, yeah, no, I want to try it. I'm going to eat it. Guess what's been in the fridge for like a week now? The pizza salad. It's bad. It's gone bad. Like this. This is kind of. So I. I always bring it up to her. I'm like, hey, like, another good example. Wanted to make sandwiches. She bought these awesome pretzel buns, but they only come in a six pack and she only wanted one sandwich. Now we got five pretzel buns in the fridge and guess who's eating. Guess who has to eat the rest of the pretzel buns?

[Ceruti]

Pretzel buns go in the fridge.

[Kyle]

They're going to throw them out. Yeah, they have longer shelf life.

[Ryan Russillo]

I think I got to get some.

[Ceruti]

Pretzel buns out of my bread box today.

[Kyle]

And I had. I've had three pretzel buns.

[Ryan Russillo]

Check the underside for mold.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Not good for you. And I only say this to say.

[Ryan Russillo]

Like, that's anti pretzel bun. This is all.

[Kyle]

No, no. I'm buried in a pretzel bun.

[Ceruti]

There's a time in a place you.

[Ryan Russillo]

Grab a pen, they're bad for you.

[Kyle]

I mean, they're not good for you. It's like, you know, I would think.

[Ryan Russillo]

On the scale, like from deodorant to pretzel buns, like.

[Kyle]

No, I know, but I'm just saying we buy in bulk and we end up throwing a lot of stuff out. And it kind of bums me out. I'M gonna be honest. So I'm typically, like, pretty forward with her about it now. Like, we have. Our relationship is fine. So, like, I kind of tight ship over there, Kyle. No, listen, I do plenty of shit that sucks too.

[Ryan Russillo]

I'm not saying it's promoted to manager. He's.

[Ceruti]

No, he's riling me up a little bit. And I'll tell you what I've done is I've broken up the grocery trips where I'll be like, hey, just give me a list. I'll go. I throw in. I throw in a podcast. And actually, you know, I don't have a lawn to mow, so maybe going up and down those grocery aisles is a little therapeutic for me as well. We've cut down on the weird yogurts that aren't going to be eaten. Like, we've cut down on that. Like, I know Greek sounds better, but you don't like it better. So, like, you know those things have.

[Kyle]

Fridge, but do you want to eat it? Yeah.

[Ceruti]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

So. And you said, like, you know, hey, maybe be a little passive aggressive about it, Kyle. Or you just be aggressive. Do you just straight up, like, for a whole month, you just tally and take photo evidence of all of the shit that she has left together.

[Ceruti]

A dossier.

[Kyle]

Yeah. You slap the laptop in front of her, open up the file, and here's. Here's the whole month of stuff that's.

[Ryan Russillo]

Happened because I don't presume innocent, too.

[Ceruti]

We call bartender and you see the amount of this household is hemorrhaging money.

[Ryan Russillo]

Where's your point of sale, Kyle?

[Ceruti]

You can have anything left for these kids.

[Ryan Russillo]

Who's Doug and why is his tab and unpaid for six weeks. Wow. Kyle. How about Ceruti, man? Here's what I would say.

[Ceruti]

This was therapeutic for him. I could tell it was.

[Ryan Russillo]

But I think sometimes you need to let your lady friend grab a pretzel bun. That's what I would say.

[Kyle]

One is fine. Six.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah. Six.

[Kyle]

We don't need six.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

But, hey, I'm making chicken salad. Then there's like, a whole vat of chicken salad, and it just sits in there for a week.

[Ceruti]

We did a bathroom book that that line would be in it. Sometimes you got to let your lady get a pretzel.

[Ryan Russillo]

But I'm just thinking about, like, anyone I've ever cared about, like, actually cared about in my life. And if we were grocery shopping together and she turned me that smile and she was like, oh, my God, I want to try these so bad, I couldn't be like, Are you going to fucking waste the other five? Like, even me? Yeah.

[Kyle]

It's not like. It's not an isolated incident. I know.

[Ryan Russillo]

It's not the future.

[Kyle]

It's going to be.

[Ryan Russillo]

It's the pizza salad laid the foundation for the pretzel bun.

[Ceruti]

Well, I've caught myself doing that, too. And then, like, being like, dude, relax. And it's like, yeah, get the. Get that weird soup. Go for it, Go for it. But if we do that every time, you know, it's going to drive me nuts. But you can fall into that thing where you're just like, wait, am I really being, like, a tyrant in Ralph's right now? All right, let me.

[Ryan Russillo]

Like, I don't know. I get pissed at myself sometimes. Like, sometimes I see those golden Oreos, and I'm like, God damn, those taste so good. And then I get them, and I'll have, like, two.

[Kyle]

Yep.

[Ryan Russillo]

And then you're like, you're not eating. Like, this isn't what you do. You just don't sit around and smash Oreos. You know, you have a brand to uphold here. Four APP guy. Four APP Guys.

[Ceruti]

Got a show in Denver. Live soon.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah, I got a live show in Denver. Who knows with the altitude, what kind of angles. Tell you what. Not packing any cash. All right, that'll do it for the show. Ceruti had something else.

[Kyle]

I do have more, but whatever.

[Ryan Russillo]

No, no, you have more. We want you to get.

[Ceruti]

I kind of know you have extra. I kind of need whatever he's got in the hopper there. Come on.

[Kyle]

No, the only. The only thing I want to add is, like, you guys do the fridge clean out every, like, couple months or so, right?

[Ceruti]

No, no, I'm doing weeks, buddy. Weeks.

[Kyle]

It's. It's depressing. It's. It's like, man, I wasted all this shit. I didn't need to buy this.

[Ryan Russillo]

It is depressing. You're right. Japanese barbecue sauce wasn't the move.

[Kyle]

I bought the diamond, used it one time.

[Ceruti]

Didn't even know asparagus could turn into a liquid.

[Kyle]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Russillo]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

The slime at the bottom of the veggie drawer.

[Ryan Russillo]

I hope we helped. Hope we helped. All right. Thanks to Wargon. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Ceruti. The Ryan Russell podcast on YouTube as well. Check out that page and subscribe right here on Ringer. Spotify fire must be 21 and older. Present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/ plus and present in D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, Hope NY or text Hopeny in New York.