Jay Bilas (16:50)

Good to see you, too. Glad to be with you always.

Ryan Rosillo (16:53)

Okay, let's get into some of the other stuff. I mean, we've already talked Cooper. We've already talked Knipple. Maybe the story starts with ace Bailey at 5. Look, the good is impressive. I know that they weren't a good team. I almost feel like. And maybe I'm just guilty of. Of it felt like everybody was dumping on him so much. The more I watched him, I was like, you know, this guy's a good player. I don't know if it works or not, but there's stuff here that's pretty special at his side. So what did you think about that pick and Ace?

Jay Bilas (17:19)

I thought it was great. You know, I figured somebody might take him before it got down to the six, seven, eight thing, but I wasn't sure. And. But you know, you know Ryan, like, he's uber talented. He just makes shots that other guys don't make. And I think even NBA players were watching him through the course of the season going, man, like, that's NBA stuff. And, you know, look, with every tough shot he hit, he had a lot of them. There were some head scratchers in there. You know, it wasn't like he was hitting the shot clock or anything, but. But took some. That you're going, well, that was a little ambitious and he's just uber confident. But for Utah to take him at five, you know, that's the best available player theory and doesn't mean you have to keep them, but, you know, why not take a swing and, and go for the super talented player? So I think Utah at five with Ace Bailey and I think it was 18. They got Walter Clayton Jr. They have to feel pretty good that they got two quality shot makers and gave their offense, you know, legitimate shot in the arm.

Ryan Rosillo (18:29)

Because you've seen this from so many different angles throughout your career. You watch Clayton Jr. And if you're late to it, you're a bit like, well, why wouldn't this guy be an NBA player? And we know that there's an age thing that, you know, historically proves out, like you don't want to be making a habit of drafting the older players. So I don't know that there's any dispute on that. But your opinion of Clayton as an NBA player and why this is not somebody who jumps ahead of the young guys despite the production and the winning.

Jay Bilas (18:58)

Yeah, I mean, the only, the only question mark I have about Walter Clayton Jr. Is he's. He's small, he's not a big guard, and, you know, he's not as small as Jace Richardson of Michigan State who went. Went in the first round. But. But he's not a big guard. And even though I think he got significantly better this last year, defensively, he's not a great defender and not an impactful, what I would call an impactful defender. But it's undeniable that dude can make shots and he's competitive and he's unafraid. You know, this. I mean, he was a football player in high school and more coveted as a. As a free safety than he was as a basketball player. And so he wasn't being recruited. He's from Lake Wales, Florida. One being recruited in basketball the same way as in football. He wanted to play basketball, so he went to Iona and played for Patino, Rick Patino, and was Mac player of the year. And, and you know, he's one of the, like, he's one of the stories I love in the transfer portal. Everybody complains about the transfer portal and I get why they do. But for a player like Walter Clayton Jr. Who is under recruited out of high school for whatever reason, maybe we missed on him, maybe he just didn't develop. Whatever. He got a chance to go prove himself and then became coveted and got to get to the level he really wanted to. And I always, you know, I always hark back to this like why should a guy be pegged out of high school? And that's the end of it. He's got to stay and play there or give up a year of his life if he wants to, to move on and transfer somewhere else. But I get your point about the older player thing. I'm still like, I'm older than you, but you know, when I was coming out of college, you know, it was all seniors back then and they were considered 22 year old rookies that had a lot to learn and a long way to go. And now, you know, now we know what their ceiling is. I'm not sure that's always true. But your point about the overall numbers, you know, you know, you'd rather take a swing with the younger guy and, and they seem to have more Runway to get better in the minds of most and the numbers seem to prove it up.

Ryan Rosillo (21:04)

One of the NBA arguments that I'd always hear about, well, I guess over the years like there felt like there was this groundswell when they changed it from the high school to the one and done, where a lot of teams are like we'd rather just take them out of high school. And I think probably for every person you could get to say that you'd hear from somebody else, be like one year. I don't want to be in high school gyms. I don't want to have to have our staff be involved this much in the high school part of it, even though they're still watching them with the one and done. But at least the one year can filter out some of this stuff. So really what I'm setting up here is a bigger question about development. There were NBA teams for years that argued if your job is to be an NBA player, then we're better at developing you than anybody else would be. And it makes sense. But you could also argue opportunity, practice reps, they don't practice a ton. Like what are you really doing? Shooting drills and facility stuff. Where are you along the lines of what makes better sense for a guy developmentally between college and the NBA?

Jay Bilas (22:02)

You know, it used to be like a few years ago the overtime elite thing or going the G League route seemed to be a really good way to go about it, because you got to. Especially with the G League, you got to work in an NBA system, and NBA people were looking at you all the time. But now that you can make money in college, the college route, like, there were a lot more college players drafted. You know, we were back to taking the college freshman. What was it, the first eight picks for college freshmen? I don't. I don't know, Ryan, that I think there's a right answer here. It. A lot of it depends on the player, but we're seeing more international players. Not everyone, but you're seeing more international players decide they want to go to college for a period of time. You know, Jaeger Demon was one of them. You've got a bunch of these guys. Come on, Malawatch. You know, you could. You could tick off several of them. So I happen to think that benefits college. I do think it benefits the NBA, too. Maybe I'm a dinosaur in this, but I think it's good for a young person to be in a college environment, even if it's only for a year. And I think that one year is helpful. And then I think the other part of it that appeals to me is that young person establishes a relationship with an institution of higher learning, and they're more likely to go back. I just don't see the downside of college. I get it that you're gonna have to go to class. You have to do these things. They're gonna take your attention away from basketball. A. And it's not going to be 24, 7 basketball like it would be in the G League. But. Or if. If, you know, we went back to the old days and you kind of go directly the NBA out of high school, I still like it. And I can't imagine that the NBA doesn't think it's a good thing. I know the players association, many of the players push back on it. You know, this is America. They should be able to go when they want type of deal. But everybody would agree there's a certain point where. Where it's too soon. Like, nobody's clamoring for players to be able to go after their junior year of high school. So what. You know, to me, what difference to make whether the cutoff is one year out of high school and all that stuff. I'm not saying it's the same as getting your driver's license, but I think the NBA at least having a year to get a look at them in A different environment other than high school is positive. Like there's nothing, there's nothing any of these leagues can do, whether it's NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball, you're going to make mistakes in the draft. There's just no way to make this a science. You can make it more scientific, but there's no way to peg this. There's never going to be a draft in my view that we're going to look back on in five years and say, yep, nailed that one. We're always going to look back and say, how did this guy go number 12? Or how did she, Gilgeous Alexander get drafted 11 and he's MVP? You know, stuff like that. We're always going to have those things.

Ryan Rosillo (24:53)

Because like, if I look at Malawatch as we talk about some of the players, as much as I understand the NBA's motivation of getting the guys in and like, hey, we're going to do a better job than they're going to. This is going to be his life. And it's hard to tell the NBA guy, hey, you're wrong about that. The players association, whether it's the Spirit of America, which okay, fine, or let's get the contract clock started a year earlier, which I think has been a lot of the motivation in the past pre nil. But it's hard to argue like what was better for Malawatch's development. 39 high level games at Duke or watching 82 games. I don't, I don't know how anybody could, like whatever your practice in your system and the nutrition and all that kind of stuff. Like it's hard to replicate that the on court experience in high pressure situations that a guy like Malawatch and so many of these other players had to, had to fight through this year.

Jay Bilas (25:48)

Yeah, I, I do think it's beneficial there, there are a couple things on that. So once you go into the process and you go to an NBA team, you know, they're not going to just let you sit there. You know that they're, they're going to be working with you even if you're not playing or you're going to be playing G league games and with the NBA team, they're going to get you, they're going to get your reps and all that stuff. But one thing I think is important, and I don't know that others would agree with this, but when, when you go into the NBA early and you're, you're young and not developed and really in any way as you would be later on, you're you're going in, you can have kind of a role player mentality. I like the idea of being at a college, on a college team, where you can develop the ego of a great player because you're expected to do more and you'll be able to do more in college. And I think it really helped Malawatch. I think it helped Derek Lively ii. You know, people kind of forget this, but when Derek Lively II came to Duke, he was the number one player in the country and he'd had an injury. I can't remember. The injury was late in his senior year of high school or in between his senior year, his freshman year. But whatever it was, it kind of set him back and he didn't perform really well to start the year. And I, you know, I was fielding a couple of phone calls from colleagues of mine going, now explain this to me. This guy was the number one player in the country. And I was like, hang back, man, he's, he's really good. He just, you know, he's been hurt. And then he picked it up midway through his freshman year. And then by the end of the year, he was a difference maker for them. And it wound up, I think he was taken 10th overall by Dallas.

Ryan Rosillo (27:32)

So.

Jay Bilas (27:32)

But I think, I think having that experience of doing it at a high level and being a relied upon player rather than a bit player in the NBA was really helpful to him. But reasonable minds can differ on that. I don't know that there's a right or wrong answer in the way this thing should be, but if I had my druthers, I would like it more like the NFL, where they stay, you know, the players association and the league agreed, let's keep them in school for a certain amount of time. Like, if you're the players. This is one thing I've never understood. If you're the players association, you're an NBA player in the players association. I'd want college players in college for as long as I could keep them there because that means my job is preserved longer as a veteran. Like, why would I want a young player coming in that's still in a developmental stage taking my job? I wouldn't want that. But that's somehow. That's not the way the association thinks. And I don't know whether that's an influence of agents or they, they will never just automatically to agree to what the league wants. They're going to use it as a bargaining chip. I'm not privy to all those things, but to me the fundamental point is like, hey, man, you can keep if you're a player in the league now, the longer they stay in college, the longer I have a job. That's the way I'd look at it.

Ryan Rosillo (28:51)

Let's run through the guys outside of Cooper and Dylan because we've talked about them. Do you have any kind of ranking? Like, as I know you weren't doing it this year, but I imagine, you know, you're doing it in the sense of like your preference between Vijay Knipple, Johnson fears Ace. If we kept it in that group before the Demon pick.

Jay Bilas (29:12)

Yeah, I ranked him. I had a best available list and I had, you know, obviously, I think everybody that watched any amount of basketball this year had Cooper Flagg and Dylan Harper one and two. I had Ace Bailey number three based on his talent. It wasn't a question of risk, it was just a talent assessment. And I had Edgecomb fourth. And then I had Trey Johnson next. Conka nipples. A better standstill shooter. Like, he's the best. He's the best catch and shoot guy in this draft. And honestly, I don't think it's. Close call. They had a horse game, a standstill horse game. He'd win by far. But Trey Johnson, I believe, is the best overall shooter because he can shoot it off the dribble and create his own. Knipple doesn't create his own as much off a catch. And then he's going to shot. He either takes a shot or he shot, fakes and drives and it's a straight line drive and he plays off two feet and does really well. The ones I struggled with a little bit, I had Malawatch next and then I had Colin Murray Boyles of South Carolina. And that was a tough call for me because I really like Murray Boyles. He's a lefty. He's one of the most versatile defenders in the draft. He doesn't look like he's a really good athlete, but he is. And, and, and he gets a lot done on the floor. He's an excellent rebounder. He just doesn't have a jump shot yet. But he scores in the paint and he, you know, like people, I. People criticize me when I say this, but, I mean, it's a reflexive thing. Like, he just knows how to play. There's some guys just know how to play and it's not based on coaching. He's got just a feel for the game and, and I like him a lot, but I could. He's one of those guys that you go, okay, I ranked him eighth. But I could see I Could see somebody else having him 28th. Those are kind of fair things. And then I had a hard time with Jeremiah Fears of Oklahoma because offensively and athletically, he's the real deal, like with the ball and getting in the lane. I don't know that he's going to get fouled as much in the NBA as he gets fouled in college. And he needs to work on a shot because he's not a. He's not a great perimeter shooter just yet, but I think he's got the makings of one. Not a great shooter, but he's got a makings of a consistent, more consistent shooter. But you don't find offensive talent like that very often. He's really gifted.

Ryan Rosillo (31:33)

I like what you said about Murray Boyles. Just because I always felt like watching him, I was like, I'm not 100% sure what it is other than just his impact, that he's just impacting the game in a bunch of different ways. You know, I, I hope, I mean, it's not like I'm sitting here going, like, I hope he grows a couple more inches. Cause that's not likely going to happen. But it's, it is a weird fit. Or maybe he's just somebody that you're bringing in going, we already know, like, his floor is so much higher, that he's this role guy that's really tough, that plays defense. I mean, every one of these kids just tells us that they can shoot from three now, even if there's no evidence that they can, you know, which is fine. Like, what are you supposed to do? Be like, well, I'm not really. I just don't feel comfortable out there. Like, nobody's going to do that in the interview. But he's, he's more of an impact guy than I would say, like, the unique skills. Again, this is a different tier between he and Trey Johnson, but when you watch Trey Johnson, you go like, I cannot believe some of these shots that this kid is making. So I would. That's why Trey Johnson goes higher than, than a guy like Murray Boyles. But there's just different tastes depending on where you are at Toronto. And I can't figure out Toronto's roster for the life of me anyway. So I guess they just said, let's, let's just bring in another guy that at least we know he's going to play really hard and probably doesn't need to be on the ball like every other guy that they have signed long term.

Jay Bilas (32:53)

Yeah. And he is going to play really like the one Thing that impressed me above all else with Colin Murray Boyles was he played for a team last year that was expected to be pretty good. And I think they were pretty good. They just played in a league that was ridiculous. You know, they beat Clemson early on in the year and I think they got off to an 80 or 90 start, whatever it was. And then they hit SEC play and they started losing these one possession games and all that. And they wound up 2 and 16 in the league. And late in the season I hadn't, I had a couple of their games in the SEC tournament. I was like, this is the best last place team in college basketball I've ever seen. Like the, and, but the thing that impressed me is, is Colin Murray Boyles played his butt off. And you know how it is. Like you get to that point in the season, you're 2 and 16, you know you're not going anywhere. And they probably knew that they weren't going to, you know, they weren't going to have some crazy run to win the SEC tournamen with the amount of great teams that were in the league last year. But he had a chance, like he was kind of injured and had a chance to tap out and he didn't, like he didn't tap out on his team, didn't tap out on his teammates. He played his butt off. And I mean I really respected that. Sitting there courtside watching that. I was really impressed with that.

Ryan Rosillo (34:06)

What did you think of the Nets night?

Jay Bilas (34:09)

I didn't understand it. I guess I, I was like most people that thought with five first round picks they would probably be really active trading. And then you start hearing like our guys Jonathan Gaboni and Bobby Mark saying no, they want to keep this pick, they want to keep this pick, they want to keep, you know, all of a sudden they want to keep all their picks. And you know, I think their first pick was Jaeger Demon of BYU who's uber talented. I mean he's tall and you know, really good with the ball and got just a magnificent passer. But, but you know, and when he, when you see highlights of it making shots and then you know, you watch a BYU and all that with the way they played, you're thinking, okay, well you know, maybe he can develop his shot. But I mean he shot under 30% from three, you know, at some point you got to go, okay, well that's not a good shooter yet. But, but he's got talent. And then I thought Drake Powell might sneak into the first round. I didn't think anybody take him at 22? That. That didn't occur to me. You know, he only played a year at North Carolina. He was kind of brought in to be a point guard, but with the team they had last year, he played kind of a wing position, and he got parked in the corner a lot. He made his open threes, but he really wasn't guarded on a lot of those. They were worried about, you know, R.J. davis and trying to keep guys out of the lane and all that stuff. But athletically, he tested off the charts at the. At the combine, so he's got. He's got a lot of ability. Just hasn't realized on it yet. And then the other guys are, you know, good talents. They got Saraf, the Israeli, they got Traore from France. And then, God, even it was really moving watching Danny Wolf sit there for that long. His mother actually rode back with us from the draft. She wound up in our car, and we had no idea how that happened. But what a sweet lady. And, you know, kind of talking about how difficult the night was for her two boys, you know, kind of what she said, it's a lot more stressful. You know, you're thinking. According to her, he was told he might go number nine, and then you go from nine to, you know, 27. Had to sit there all that time, and, you know, that had to be the longest first round I've ever sat through. It took a long time. We weren't off the set until close to midnight. And so, you know, I don't think I've ever seen that much, and I don't want to make fun of it, but I've never seen that much crying at a draft. There was a lot of crying, and. And close to midnight, I was one of them. I was starting to cry.

Ryan Rosillo (36:59)

Yeah, man. I mean, that's tough because you get that invite, and there's. Some people don't get invited to the green room, where I'm like, you know, okay, that's interesting. That's. That's something. If this guy isn't invited to the green room, like, what does that mean? I've been in the building for it. I think I did a bunch of years. I don't know how many I did. And then there would be dudes that just show up, have their own ticket to have no invite from anybody. Back when we had the first two rounds in the same night, and they would just come out of the stands in a suit, you know, that I.

Jay Bilas (37:29)

Like better than having 24 guys in there. I'm uncomfortable with the LA, because last year two guys didn't get that got invited to the green room, didn't get drafted. It was Filipowski and I think Furfy were still sitting there. And this year it looked like, you know, Danny Wolf was a focus a little bit and then, and then Liam McNeely I think was the last, last guy. So all of them got draft, all the 24 wound up getting drafted. You know, the only picks that kind of fooled me a little bit, most of them were with at least within the range of where you rank the players. Not that that matters, but Portland at number 16, taking Hanson Yang from China, that one surprised me. Like I had him ranked like 41st. And then the big guy from Penn State, Yanni Conan Niederhauser, I had him in the late 30s. So that was a little bit of a. Maybe not a crazy. Jamie went number 30. So it's not a, that's not a crazy swing. But I didn't see either one of those guys going to the first round.

Ryan Rosillo (38:35)

Yeah, it was when it got done, I, you know what, like credit to the mocks on this one. Not so much for the accuracy, but like sometimes you're looking for, do we have 10 guys that we thought weren't going in the first round that went in the first round? And other than Yang and I think the very end of the first round, as you point out with the Penn State kid, there was, it was basically like the same collection of this rotating, you know, Fleming, maybe St. Joe's not going was a bit surprising, but there was probably only like three or four names that were swapped out for each other. The Dara Queen pick, it's not just the pick. So if I ask you, hey, what do you think? It's hard to do it on just a player, but let's just talk about the player first because there's not a sane basketball person that thinks that this was a smart basketball decision to give up the unprotected pick in 26.

Jay Bilas (39:20)

Yeah, that's the, that's the kicker and sort of the hard one to wrap your head around. Like I heard one of my colleagues today say that, that if, if you had, had told someone, okay, the Pelicans were going to get Jeremiah Fears from Oklahoma and then Derrick Queen with 7 and 13, you go, hey, that's pretty good. That's good draft. They did a good job. But then you go, but they moved up 10 spots to get their Queen and they had to give up a first round pick next year that could turn it who knows? Maybe it's a top five pick. You go, I don't know about that, but same thing with the kid from China, Hanson Young, going to Portland. If you really like the guy, then you do what it takes to take them. The fact that I may not agree with what New Orleans did, we're not going to know for a while whether they're right or wrong. But. But, you know, if you find out next year, that pick turns into something really good in a draft, that that's in all likelihood going to be better next year than this one was. You know, that's when you start getting into the. Like, I don't like messing. I don't like the idea of messing with. With your. Your draft picks. Like, that's the way, in my view, anyway, that's the way you build teams, is you do it through the draft. And. And I don't think you give those away for. For 10 spots to get Derek Queen. But, you know, reasonable minds can differ, I guess.

Ryan Rosillo (40:50)

What do you think about Yakushona's falling to Miami at number 20?

Jay Bilas (40:55)

I wasn't shocked at that. I had Yakachonas ranked 15th, so that sort of drop is not crazy. He's really talented and he's really good with the ball. He struggled, like, I think he's a pretty good shooter, but he really struggled to shoot it late in the season. Like, I think the last 10, 12 games, whatever it is, he shot like 25% from three. I don't know whether he got worn down or anything, because Will Riley, who wound up going late in the first round or later in the first round, a teammate of his, he had his best games in the last 10 games, and that. That was kind of a separator for him. He. He got off to a great start, kind of tapered off in the middle, and then really finished strong. And Yakachon is kind of the opposite. You know, that's. He had some. Some injury issues and illness and all that, but. But he's talented. I just. I just didn't. I didn't think Miami would be the team to take him. That. That surprised me a little bit. But. But with his talent, like, you know, a lot of these guys can pay off, but there are a number of players, you know, you're kind of thinking, okay, here are the positives, but there are some negatives, too. And which one's going to win out at the NBA level? I don't think. I don't think. I don't think. I know that right now.

Ryan Rosillo (42:17)

So you don't have your five future all Stars list for me, you're guaranteed lock. Come on SportsCenter Jay Billis and give us your five future All Stars.

Jay Bilas (42:26)

You know. Well, yeah, but they, but if you think they're all stars, you rank them in the top five. You know, like, that's, that's kind of the thing is like, every once in a while, like, you know how this stuff goes. So drafts coming up, and SportsCenter wants give us a name that, that, that's going to be Donovan Mitchell. Because I guess when Donovan Mitchell came out, I had him as a sleeper. But I wasn't saying, when I said sleeper, I was talking about value. I wasn't saying, okay, here's a, here's an all NBA player. Like, you know, you're not kind of saying that, but, you know, then you start going, all right, are we making this up to try to, you know, it's a weird position to be in.

Ryan Rosillo (43:06)

Yes. Because no one actually cares. In my, my experience with it, nobody was like, hey, that might be a little outrageous.

Jay Bilas (43:16)

Yeah. Oh, nobody's gonna say that, you know, but, but when, you know, it's funny. Like, when I've done the, I try to look back on, on prior drafts to see, you know, mistakes I've made. To, to see, like, was there a reason I made that mistake other than just being dumb? Or is that, is this something I can avoid making in the future if I'm more cognizant of this, that the other. And that you can't really find a pattern to it. But you know how this stuff goes. Like, you know, you're, nobody ever remembers the right calls you had. They only remember the wrong ones and that. Which is fine. You know, Hyman Roth said, this is the business we've chosen. I mean, I don't have any problem with that. We're going to be wrong. But I always want to try to be careful. Like, I don't want to just make stuff up for this segment just because somebody wants it. And even last night, to be quite frank with you, like, I totally blew off the idea of, all right, who lost tonight? Who is the big loser? Like, no, no, ask somebody else that. I'm not doing that. I mean, if you want to say who did, well, fine, I'm not going to go. All right, this team really screwed up. Like, you can point out that that was a lot to give up for Derek Queen, so they must really believe in him. That that's fair. I'm not going to go bagging on some team because I don't like their draft pick. That guy maybe later gone. The guy turns out to be an all Star, like, who cares?

Ryan Rosillo (44:36)

Yeah, but that's what I did at the open of this pod today in the Derek Queen thing. So just. Just forewarning, because, you know, the Queen thing, it's not the same thing, but I remember, like, the Ravens after they got Lamar, and it was like, we knew it. We knew it. It was like you actually had three chances to pick him before you picked him. So just. Just calm down on that. You were smarter than everybody about this, other than you ended up getting him. So, like, no one's ever going to remember how that draft worked out, because I remember they kept kind of like, all right, so they're out of that pick. They're out of that pick. If the Bellicans have a press conference to justify this and start going like, we had Queen, like, what? It's like, well, why don't you just take them seventh? But then they're going to say, well, we had fears like three outside of all these guys. And, you know, look, I could sit here and say, we had heard they liked fears. Well, clearly they did. They took them seventh. And that's a justification for all this stuff. But I'm. I'm with you on it because it's. It's kind of what the game is with the open mind of, like, how many times you'd go back through winners and losers on draft night without ever seeing a kid play. I think it's a flawed thing that we've all kind of accepted that. Yeah, that's also going to be a talking point on everything that you're doing the next day. The Pelicans won, though. Just the risk of having that pick be unprotected, knowing what is a more likely scenario for the Pelican season next year. That one I would be okay with saying, like, hey, not great tonight. Couple other things before I let you go. Cedric Coward. The first time I watched him, I just couldn't believe. I'm like, why is. And then, boom, here we go. He goes 11th. And some teams actually, with my excitement, were like, you need to chill out a little bit on him. He played six games, watched the Iowa game. The Iowa game was the only game against, like, real competition. He wasn't great necessarily in that game, but yet that was still enough for Memphis. What did you see when you prepped for him this year?

Jay Bilas (46:20)

Well, I'm. I don't care about the six games thing. He got hurt. Like, he had a laborman Injury. Kyrie Irving played 11 games. So what that, that means, that's meaningless. It was an injury. And in those six games, three of them were 20 point games including he hung 30 on Northern Colorado. It's, it's what he's capable of doing. So he's, he's one of these long armed, super athletic three and D guys that can really knock down shots. Like, you know, I'm not suggesting he's, you know, he's going to win the NBA three point contest, but, but with that athletic profile for him to be able to make perimeter shots and then he can guard anybody, transition ability, you know, rebound, you name it. And, and he's, he's hungry. Like He's a Division 3 player. Started out in Division 3 and then transferred Eastern Washington, did really well there and then, and then went to Washington State where he got hurt out, you know, around the sixth game. You know, I had him, I think I had him like at 18. And he wound up going, going number 11, I believe. But he's talented. Like there were three guys that, that I was really interested in seeing what would happen. It was Carter Bryant of Arizona, Richard Fleming of St. Joe's and Coward. And I thought all three of them were going in the first round because of, you know, they're, they're the prototypical three and D guys that are crazy long and athletic and, and, and they, they make, they can make an open three. And you know, Coward went higher than I thought. Bryant went a couple slots lower than I thought. I thought he thought Bryant would be the first one off the board and I thought Fleming would go in the top 25 and he wound up slipping into the second round.

Ryan Rosillo (48:09)

Is Fleming your best available then to start the second round tonight?

Jay Bilas (48:14)

Yeah, he's number one on, on the remaining list. And then Maxime Renault of, of Stanford, who you know, averaged over 20, average over 10. You know, he can make, he's kind of a pick and pop big guy and can make threes. He's not like this super athlete and he's not a big time shot blocker. But his offensive rebounding is overall rebounding which is, you know, translates pretty well to the NBA. I think he'll be off the board pretty quick. I'll be interested to see what Ryan happens with Ryan Kalkbrenner from Creighton, his four time defensive player of the year in the Big east. And I happen to really like him, but it'll be interesting to see like kind of plays straight up and down. I don't know whether that's bothersome to some people in the NBA, but I think he's going to have value at the top of the second round.

Ryan Rosillo (49:06)

Maybe a question for tonight to prep you up. How many hall of Famers do you think we have in the second round?

Jay Bilas (49:15)

Well, you have to go right to Chaz Lanier. I have no idea.

Ryan Rosillo (49:21)

Two and a half is the over under on hall of Famers tonight in the second round. We're going to start with Jay Billis. Maybe worked out another rundown coverage tonight on espn ESPN app. That's five west coast time eight eastern time for Jay in the crew for part two. A two parter now with the NBA the last couple years. So hopefully you're getting compensated, Jay.

Jay Bilas (49:41)

I hope so.

Ryan Rosillo (49:43)

Thanks man.

Jay Bilas (49:44)

All right, brother. Thank you.

Ryan Rosillo (49:48)

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Jay Bilas (52:07)

Fine.

Kyle (52:08)

I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

Ryan Rosillo (52:11)

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the south fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid.

Kyle (52:22)

So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

Ryan Rosillo (52:25)

Life advice. The email address lifeadvice rrmail.com Orgon Kyle. What's good, Kyle? Harley. Kyle on the show today. Yeah.

Kyle (52:34)

Took a break from the polo. Just, I don't know, feel different when I put one of these bad boys on. Same works for the G unit shirt. Just felt like that kind of day.

Ryan Rosillo (52:42)

G unit. What's going on with the TVs? First question, has Ryan emailed the guy yet? Emailed him an hour ago. Whoa.

Kyle (52:50)

Feels like a Friday.

Ryan Rosillo (52:52)

That's awesome, doesn't it? Okay, well, thanks.

Kyle (52:57)

Sorry.

Ryan Rosillo (52:58)

Yeah, no, no, that was a.

Kyle (53:00)

Now that was a flat response we've been giving you. I guess I have. That was flat. I'm sorry. You want to take it from the top?

Ryan Rosillo (53:07)

No, no, I don't. Okay. I was not reading. I was reading it because someone asked and then I was like, you know what, I'll be honest with you. Someone asked, then I emailed them. So credit to that guy. So I wanted to acknowledge him. I was not doing this for praise. I was not. When I want to be praised, you'll know. Okay, we have one about this guy's sex life. I don't know. It is a Friday. No, for some it isn't. For kids, I always want to give. I want to always give the parents like a little bit of a heads up.

Kyle (53:42)

But like 30 seconds.

Ryan Rosillo (53:44)

Yeah. Is that what I'm doing right now? Yeah, I think.

Jay Bilas (53:47)

Yeah.

Kyle (53:48)

Head on a swivel, everybody.

Ryan Rosillo (53:50)

Okay. The title is generous lover with a pillow. Princess oh no. Jesus. I know. It's intense.

Kyle (53:59)

I need to leave even thought about this one.

Ryan Rosillo (54:01)

Okay. It's a little racy for us. Okay. Okay. Let's give it a shot. I might have to edit on the fly here. 57165. I'm an arborist. I work outdoors, climbing trees. Fit but not athletic. Great bench guy. Hype man, assistant coach like Charlie from the Mighty Ducks. The heart of the team. It's like Kyle, mid-30s, spent a few years having fun. I spent years, not a few, spent years having fun. As a bachelor, I was once told, you are not a great guy, but you were hot and good in bed. I think a lot of people would be like, I'm okay with that.

Kyle (54:41)

There's a certain age range. And you're like, yeah, maybe I should run for office. Sounds like I got everything.

Ryan Rosillo (54:49)

You could say certain age range and then it could come back like, hey, I'm back to my. It's the old me. Womanizing days are behind me. I've been in a wonderful relationship for two and a half years with a big brain, big heart, PhD. We've been living together for six months. There's been the normal bumpiness transition of two long time bachelors living together. I do my best to be a good roommate, great boyfriend, carry my own emotional luggage. We have a solid relationship. Mix the serious with the fun. A real future together. Well constructed. Sentence the issue. Oh, there was like headlines to that. The first one was the situation and now the now the issue. Bold underline. I like. I like his organizational skills too as well. I am a sexual athlete. It's what I do best. I'm physically gifted and have the talent to match. I take my craft seriously. I put in hours of practice, reading, researching, always finding ways to improve. I'm just going to be like the first one in the gym. Last one to leave. Right? We heard that a lot from. Wouldn't it be great if they were interviewing the draft picks to be like, you know what, what is where? The Utah Jazz. When they're getting like a sexual appetite that's just beyond like, yeah, I'm. I'm different.

Kyle (56:12)

Doing. Let's go.

Ryan Rosillo (56:15)

Yeah. So this guy's putting in the work. I focus on her, asking about her needs, what she wants, maintaining an emotionally safe environment with enthusiastic consent. I am generous and enthusiastic lover, keeping that ratio of hers to mine high. Typically 2, 5 1. We have an active sex life and she is deeply satisfied. However, I am not. My needs do not seem to matter to her. Recently there was a week where the ratio was 16 to 1. I've had a few conversations about how I feel like I'm the only one. I'm only there to please her. Then I do all the work and she just lays there. She's baffled, convinced that women can only do things in a different position. Even when I do, even then I do most of the work. She's implied that if I want to. Yeah, this is getting a little deep for us. That it's ultimately his responsibility. I don't want to break up. We have a solid relationship. As a sexual athlete, I feel stifled. I'm an all star player with some nice accolades and I'm floundering on a mid level team while I'm still in my prime. I know this all sounds egotistical. This one's titled Side Note and I'm God's gift to women. I know that I'm not. There are many cases where I'm full of self loathing and insecurity. There's an area where I. This is an area I felt insecure about until women convinced me my insecurity was inaccurate. Italics. I don't ever want her to do something she does not want to do. I'm hands off, strong, independent.

Kyle (57:53)

Now you sound awesome.

Ryan Rosillo (57:56)

I'm hands off, strong, independent women. Do whatever you want. Sort of. Dude. There's no negativity or desire to make her feel bad. All emotional safety and enthusiastic consent. Is there any way to communicate that my needs are not getting met? That I want her to want me? Or is this just something I must accept? She simply does not find my sexual gratification important and will only ever play a minor role in satisfying them. Thanks for everything. I love all of you. Worgon, you want to go first?

Jay Bilas (58:22)

Yes.

Marcelino (58:23)

Did he give us a comp, by the way? Is there a player comp in there?

Kyle (58:27)

He was the mighty Dutch guy, right?

Ryan Rosillo (58:28)

That's Garnett on the Chimberwolves.

Marcelino (58:32)

I don't. I don't know what to tell us. I mean, he's grinding tape. You know, he's putting in the hours. Gym rat. You've already told her this, right? That's what the email said. They've already had this discussion.

Kyle (58:41)

Yeah.

Ryan Rosillo (58:41)

Yeah. She says it's up to him. Yep.

Marcelino (58:44)

I don't know what else to tell you, Guy.

Kyle (58:46)

It's not going to be. The conversation is not going to get easier to have the second time around.

Ryan Rosillo (58:51)

It'll.

Kyle (58:51)

She'll probably be dismissive more now, like, what do you want from me?

Ryan Rosillo (58:58)

This is.

Kyle (58:59)

This is kind of It's a trade off situation. You said everything else is great. You know, it's a long life. Things could change. Don't your taste buds change every 10 years? I don't know.

Ryan Rosillo (59:09)

Do they?

Kyle (59:10)

I don't know. It's one of those myths, right?

Ryan Rosillo (59:12)

Desensitized.

Jay Bilas (59:13)

I don't know.

Ryan Rosillo (59:14)

Yeah, look that up. Good eye, Tina.

Kyle (59:16)

But I don't think belaboring this point with her is gonna like. There's certain things in relationships, you know, certain conversations aren't gonna go well. And you think in an ideal relationship we should be able to talk about this. I'm having an issue. There's plenty of times that I wanted to say something and didn't, and now it's. Now my cup is full of annoyance. And I'm going to try to say this in a responsible way. And we should be able to talk about it if I just share my feelings. Because that's what everyone wants, right? Share your feelings in a relationship so we don't have any miscommunications. And then the moment comes, you spring it on her. You try to do it in the right way and she's not receptive. And you're like, everything I thought is wrong. And that's true. She doesn't care enough about this right now. I don't know. Unless you're doing a couples therapy when you've got like a mediator and you're like, this is really important to our sexual athlete here. There's no way that she's going to see it this way. So I don't think this is going to get better in your eyes unless you change your perspective on it. I don't know.

Jay Bilas (60:12)

Well put.

Kyle (60:13)

Thanks.

Ryan Rosillo (60:16)

We get a well put from Oregon on that one, I guess. Peacocking around the bedroom with your shirt off like Mick Jagger, just saying, do you know how good you have it? It's like what it sounds like. Sounds like the guy wants. He's already talked to her. She said, hey, that's more up to you. Which is a horrible answer. Yeah, it's just so.

Kyle (60:37)

And you know, before he brought it up, he was like, I waited as long as I could on this. And he was really expecting some sort of empathy or something. And to get the opposite of that is like, that's tough, man.

Ryan Rosillo (60:54)

I don't really have anything else to add. I think you're, you're, you're going to have to make some sort of compromise. Does this person check every other box? And I think, you know, much like the pelicans giving up that Unprotected pick. My concern would be if you're signing up for this deal, like long term, and you're going to be married, is there going to be a breaking point for you where you, much like the pelicans, are putting yourself at risk of betraying something, right? Where you're going to. You're just going to start to rationalize like, well, you know, like, it's been two and a half years. Sounds like things are really good. I don't know that this gets better. I don't know. I mean, unless you're just like so old, you're like, whatever. I'm just glad you know, I don't have a walker. Maybe that's not who you are.

Kyle (61:45)

Into it more, you know, like with Scientologists. Like, you get your thetans up enough, you might like switch. Flip a switch in her and she's like, I care about this now. Maybe you can lie to yourself and just practice hard enough in whatever your routine is. Go to 3A days. I don't know, maybe you do something so crazy that she's like, we got to figure out how to make that happen again. I don't know. How do you do with that?

Ryan Rosillo (62:08)

You sound like somebody who may have read a pamphlet walking around the Frolic Room.

Kyle (62:13)

They are there. They are there. I just thought I watched the Going Clear on hbo. That thing was. Had me shook.

Ryan Rosillo (62:18)

You just watched it?

Kyle (62:19)

No, no. A while ago. And it's just been one of those things I'm like fascinated with because they're just there walking around with their tucked in shirts like, come on in. Oh, man, I don't think so.

Ryan Rosillo (62:31)

Yeah, I'm just worried that, I mean, a guy called himself a sexual athlete twice. So it's really important. How important? And are you going to get to a point in a couple years, you get married, you just go. You start going to Hooters. Like, say it's because of the specials. You went to Hooters again on Tuesday by yourself.

Kyle (62:57)

You got four different Cart Girls number. You just want to know when they're working at your golf course.

Ryan Rosillo (63:04)

All right, good luck. All right, there's a couple other here. There's a long pause. Sorry. For anybody that thought the guy wanted to talk about his day off. All right, let's read this one about Guam. You all just threw Guam out the window. I waited a couple shows. We send this. I actually played varsity basketball in high school, but that's it. No other stats. I really didn't want to put that in there, but I have to Now, Guam is by far the best the guy could go to. I'm a white guy who's been adopted into the Chamorro culture. I hope I got that right. I don't know. I don't know a lot about Guam. That's why I didn't. I didn't put it. I didn't know what to do with it. That's the local people there. I was born and raised in Colorado, right between Denver and Boulder. Went to see work, golf course maintenance for a long time that went to law school in Oklahoma. After school, got a job in Guam. Did public defender work there. How about this guy? Then I moved to Colorado to do public defender work there for a year, then moved back to Guam for five years. This guy loves Guam. Then during the pandemic, me and my wife moved to Maine also. That's when the Nuggets won and I had to celebrate alone with my dog. That sucks. Yeah. But they won in 23.

Kyle (64:22)

Guess he was still in Maine.

Ryan Rosillo (64:23)

Yeah, I guess he's still in Maine and hadn't made any friends, despite how much Guam accepted him, which maybe is its own topic. Is Guam friendlier than Maine? But now I'm back in Guam because it's amazing with the beaches and the pictures. Doesn't surprise me. Mike wouldn't come. Damn it. Yeah. How do you feel about that, Mike?

Kyle (64:40)

Get a little bit of Rudy treatment?

Marcelino (64:42)

Yeah.

Jay Bilas (64:42)

God damn.

Ryan Rosillo (64:43)

Yeah, Little. Little stray. But Kyle, that was disappointing. Ryan, I think, is more interested. Just know it's four hours of Tokyo and Japan is the best ever. Also, if you ever get the chance, Palawa. Palawa. I don't know.

Kyle (64:58)

One of those has to be right?

Ryan Rosillo (65:00)

Yeah. Google Jellyfish Lake. All right. Yeah. Look, we didn't spend a lot of time on Guam because we didn't have much reference. So every now and then I like to. I don't know if I don't know a ton about something, but again, sometimes we're talking about stuff where I'm like, I don't know what to do with this, so. But Guam was one I was very uncomfortable pretending I knew anything about.

Kyle (65:24)

Yeah, you got to think of the context of the question. He was like, where would you go if you were me? And, you know, I didn't know anything about it, so it couldn't be my top three for sure.

Ryan Rosillo (65:35)

Yeah, I can't put something in my top three. If I'd have.

Kyle (65:37)

I'm imagining bugs I've never heard of before. You know, I'm not. That's coming from a place of Ignorance. But I'm just saying if I had to push my chips towards something, it probably wouldn't be the place. I don't know.

Ryan Rosillo (65:48)

Sorry.

Marcelino (65:49)

I'm sure it's beautiful but you gotta factor in the travel, you know. So far away from family, right?

Jay Bilas (65:54)

Yeah, right.

Ryan Rosillo (65:55)

There's that worgon. Just being sensible about it. He's not anti Guam, he's. He's pro convenience. Amazon. You imagine how long it takes to get ginger ale, right?

Marcelino (66:06)

They got three day shipping there. You think?

Kyle (66:07)

Yeah, I doubt it's free.

Ryan Rosillo (66:09)

Send in one box. Dude, we're sending this, sending this next month. Okay? This is urgent. How do I waste time in between jobs? Hey guys. 24 year old male, 5 8, 165 player comp Tar Heel JJ Redick short and can shoot the three but went to Carolina so F Duke. I get it now. Rivalry never dies. No gym stats. I'm currently in between jobs and live in an apartment in the south end of Charlotte. Some pronounce it Charlotte. It's further north on the pronunciations. Today my roommate and all of my buddies have normal nine to five so I usually have the data myself. However, I think of myself as a people person so this tends to get boring. Also, I'm single, sitting by the apartment pool writing this email right now. As I'm the only person here, what other activities could I get into? I run a 5k every morning and have broken 24 minutes a few times. Oron. It's good.

Marcelino (67:07)

What is that, 8 minutes, 8 minute mile? A little under that?

Ryan Rosillo (67:13)

No, that would be. Yeah, I mean what is it, 3.1?

Marcelino (67:16)

3.1?

Ryan Rosillo (67:17)

Yeah, it's a little under but get bored in the afternoons. Love the pod as much as Lamelo Ball. P.S. this is my current view. So this guy sent us a full hairy leg close up. Pick a great camera. Hot dogs or legs, all toes pick sucks man. Luckily he left out like it's. It's below his shorts enough that we're not right on top of him. But this is how bored this guy is. He's emailing us and then sending us pictures of his legs and his toes. He's got a massive second digit. Kyle, you're our guy on this one. What do you do in between jobs?

Marcelino (67:55)

He thought Kyle was the second digit guy.

Kyle (68:00)

He's an athlete guy. He cares about this. So I would say you're not going to go sit in bars. Don't do that. The answer for me is clearly golf. You can spend as much or as little time, you can play as fast as slow as you want. If you're going to be at solo and you're a people person, there's somebody going to be there. I don't know what time of day. Probably the earlier, the older your companions would get. So if you do your 5k in the morning, shower up and you stroll in around one or two o' clock, you might get some people a little closer to your age, I don't know. But that's the easy answer for me. Especially if you never play. You could go out there as much as you want. So I would say golf or something akin to that, where you can do it alone, but you do it with people. There's a lot of times in that part of the day, like you said, most people have jobs, so you'll probably be able to get out there.

Marcelino (68:47)

I was going to say fishing. Find like a nice lake, whatever you got down there, stream, whatever, throw a line out, just hang out there.

Kyle (68:54)

That's expensive.

Ryan Rosillo (68:55)

Yeah.

Marcelino (68:56)

Certainly less expensive. You might catch a fish, bring it home, who knows, are endless.

Jay Bilas (69:01)

Because you're alone.

Kyle (69:04)

Turn into a fish Instagram page. That'd be great.

Ryan Rosillo (69:08)

Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's it. Getting the content like, this is what I did on my day off. This is what you do in between jobs and all of your roommates and friends work.

Marcelino (69:16)

Build a trench. Yeah. See what happens.

Ryan Rosillo (69:18)

He's in a department that hoa. Freak out. You're out there with a hoe and a wheelbarrow. Like, who is this guy?

Kyle (69:25)

Thanks for shoehorning that in. We had a false start on the podcast a couple weeks ago when I wanted to shout out this group of kids in the UK called Trenching Boys. They're just teamed up this summer, probably on somebody else's land, and they're digging a trench. They've built a fire into it. They're dealing with heavy rain, so some flooding, but they're not stopping. It's just a great time. Shout out Trenching Boys on Instagram. They're taking off and I wanted to get the credit before they got this many followers, but, you know, that's just. Sometimes production doesn't work that way. So I just want to give them a shout out. Thanks for mentioning Trenching Boys.

Ryan Rosillo (69:56)

So what happened? We cut it because you kept messing up the beginning and then that never made it on. I had no idea that.

Kyle (70:01)

Yeah, it was like. I think something wasn't recording first. I was recording on my end. Obviously I'm a pro, but there was something going on. I think at the overall recording there was like the Internet stopped and I just didn't have the same enthusiasm. And you know, that was it.

Ryan Rosillo (70:14)

I think we tried twice and you're like, I don't even want to do it again. Don't feel so. Just so the world knows, you were on the trenching boys. Early.

Kyle (70:21)

Early.

Ryan Rosillo (70:21)

All right, last one. This is one of my favorite ones ever. And I even called my father about it. Okay, so DIY framing gone wrong. Greetings. Oh yeah, Ryan, Kyle, Mike, maybe Steve. 6, 6, 2, 20. Wow. 30 years old, completed half marathon. But I won't get in my mile splits. Why not? We don't have them though. Player comp. Josh Smith. Left handed. Can dunk, can't shoot. My wife and I bought a house about one and a half years ago. Has an unfinished basement. I wanted something to put some sweat equity into and she wanted something that was closer to a finished product. So rather than getting a full on fixer upper, this is what we settle on. I started. I like that compromise. Our first close the door on it.

Kyle (71:00)

If it gets a little too crazy, it's like just down there. I don't know. Just put our paper towels down there right now.

Ryan Rosillo (71:05)

Yeah, it's next to the Capri Suns. I started the process maybe six months ago, but it is slow going when you are DIYing since the weekends make the most sense to pick up the next project. I have an office job full time, so having a project to figure out and working with my hands sounded appealing for diy. This guy's killing me because I'm going to mess up this read. Our basement. I wanted to learn some new skills along the way as I'm trying to figure out what I will do versus contracting out, I landed on doing the framing. Two bed, one bath. Since nothing was structural and my brother convinced me that I could do the H Vac myself to save some money, I found someone to moonlight the plumbing. And for the electrical I found a small contractor who was just starting on his own. Fast forward a bit. I passed rough in inspection for framing, plumbing, electrical and H Vac. So the next step in the process process is drywalling. I hired a drywalling company that was suggested by my brother as I'd heard people doing drywall themselves. But it also sounded overwhelming to tackle an entire basement by myself. I was eager to see what everything looked like after they hung the drywall. So I checked it out and on one of the walls they wrote in pencil, beautiful frame. I considered it one of the best compliments I've ever received. Since this is my first framing project and even told my family members and friends. Friends about it. Now for the surprise. The business owner doubles as the texture guy, so he's the last one on the job before it's complete. I told him about the message on the wall and he said he was not happy when he saw it. Apparently the team who wrote it told the business owner there were things wrong with the framing they had to fix or adjust. The business owner told them it was the homeowner who framed it to explain why there were errors. What I took as a compliment now seemed to be sarcasm. I never found out what the issues were, but they didn't seem to be delayed in getting the job done. When I read this the first time, I knew immediately he was being fucked with because sheetrockers would not ever be like, hey, beautiful frame. When I read this email to my father, he was like. I was surprised they even got to the level of sarcasm.

Kyle (73:07)

Like, did you just say fuck you? What do you think it would say normally?

Ryan Rosillo (73:13)

But I just knew. I knew immediately. I'm like, they're not complimenting this guy. I don't take it personally. I'll probably frame something again since I learned so much along the way and enjoyed the process. But what I want to clarify or what I want clarity from is from a guy with a construction background. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I'm your guy anymore on that. Should I have just hired the same company to do the framing, the drywall, so there's no room for complaints about my work? Or does this happen all the time in the construction industry and I'm overthinking it? Also, is it bad enough update my friends and family on what the message really meant since now they see me as being handy? Yeah, I think you just leave them out of it. You know, the truth. That's all that really matters. You weren't doing it to be deceitful. You weren't doing it for some maybe a little ego boost, but it wasn't like you want to be introduced as the guy who just figured out framing immediately. The chances are it's the first time you're doing it, so there's just going to be stuff you're not thinking about. Like you may be thinking about level or you think about plum. Are you looking at how the two by four sit? You know, are you just tacking them in there, being like, this is good. Sometimes the quality of wood on one side of the 2x4 is far superior to the other side. And so you Also have to think about, like, all right, I've got to keep them on a certain distance of centers, but are you thinking about how the seams are going to line up when they're putting in the Sheetrock? So I imagine there's just that you thought you nailed because that you probably were not thinking about the next step enough. And the second those guys see anything that gets in their way, and even if you said, like, it didn't seem like it was going to take them any longer, they probably had to rip out a couple two by fours or turn them around or they had to move a couple over to make sure that it lined up with what they were doing in the next step. It's just a lot for you to just know the first time you're ever going to do it. I'm sure the second time you do it, you'll probably figure it out. But, you know, tacking some two by fours in together and then seeing what is in theory a wall is slight is slightly more complicated when you have to think about all the things that are going to happen next. So I wouldn't really worry about it all that much. I wouldn't tell your family. And yes, it's also like the second something is not to their liking and delays them by five minutes, whatever that group is, just sits there. And the previous group, even if it's totally like an overreaction, it's just what dudes do. All right, that'll do it for the pod today.

Kyle (75:24)

For me. For me.

Ryan Rosillo (75:28)

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Jay Bilas (75:29)

I was like, clear out.

Ryan Rosillo (75:30)

Yeah, I was. I was. Alex Saar with a minute left, like, sorry, this is what I do.

Kyle (75:36)

I was a little surprised. The one thing I'll say is he left the, like, the drywalling for someone else. I always thought framing was kind of one of those scary things, like precision, sort of like you mentioned, if it was a first time for each one of those, I might have been like, I'll take a little extra time on the drywall. I think the frame seems like, I don't know.

Ryan Rosillo (75:54)

I can't. I don't know. To me, the framing is more important. But all I could think of is having to do a drywall, like a full drywall, finished basement. All I could think of is after you did it the first time, you'd be like, okay, I'm going to be so much better the second time. As you've looked at a really, like, nice. There's going to be a lot of stuff that you weren't going to do. Right the first time around. But again, I didn't have a lot of expertise in that.

Jay Bilas (76:19)

All right.

Ryan Rosillo (76:19)

And look, Sheetrock guys were always kind of their own thing. Did the framers look down on them? Yes. Okay. All right. That'll do it for the pod today. Thanks to Oregon, thanks to Kyle, thanks to Marcelino in today as well. Ryan Marsilla podcast. You can watch us on the Spotify app. Please subscribe to our YouTube page. We're going to do a Friday feedback next week. Friday feedback rrgmail.com I promise. Sort of. And thanks for listening. Bring your Spotify.

Marcelino (76:50)

They were gonna name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it. So they named me Michael.

Jay Bilas (76:55)

Jared.

Ryan Rosillo (77:14)

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