Brian Windhorst! Contender Questions, Can Tanking Realistically Be Fixed, & the Wemby–Chet Rivalry Origin Story

Summary

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The Ryen Russillo Show - Barstool Sports

Episode: Brian Windhorst! Contender Questions, Can Tanking Realistically Be Fixed, & the Wemby–Chet Rivalry Origin Story

Date: March 26, 2026
Host: Ryen Russillo
Guest: Brian Windhorst (ESPN, The Hoop Collective)

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Episode Overview

This episode features NBA insider Brian Windhorst joining Ryen Russillo for an in-depth discussion about the current NBA title contenders, whether tanking can ever honestly be “fixed,” the San Antonio Spurs’ playoff ceiling, and the inside origin story of the Victor Wembanyama–Chet Holmgren rivalry. Other topics include key playoff matchups and quirks in both conferences, Giannis Antetokounmpo's future, and Adam Silver’s anti-tanking promises.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Eastern vs. Western Conference Contender Outlook (03:00 – 13:00)

• Main Debate:
  Russillo and Windhorst discuss whether it would be more surprising if a non-Boston team from the East won the title, or if a Western contender not named San Antonio or OKC represented the West in the Finals.
• Boston Celtics Assessment:
  • Windhorst emphasizes Boston's strong regular season, playoff-caliber rotations, and belief that Boston is built for a Finals run again.
  • Notable quote on Tatum:

    “The bigger the game, the better he rebounds… I do not care what his shooting percentage is until the second round of the playoffs.”
    (Windhorst, 05:34)

• Celtics' Development Approach:
  Russillo notes Boston’s under-the-radar success at internal player development: Baylor Scheierman, Jordan Walsh, Hauser, Hugo Besson, Neemias Queta.

2. OKC Thunder’s Playoff Profile (08:45 – 13:00)

• OKC Weaknesses:
  Windhorst points to their “shallowness in creators” and three-point shooting variance. Playoff defenses may force others besides SGA to create.
• Coaching Gameplans:
  Missoula packs the paint vs Thunder, limiting SGA’s rim attempts.

3. San Antonio Spurs Playoff Legitimacy (13:20 – 23:13)

• Are the Spurs Ready?
  • Both hosts debate the classic adage: “the youngest teams rarely win it all,” but note the unique “rule-breaking” potential of a Wembanyama-led group.
  • Windhorst shares league consensus: More scouts/coaches believe the Spurs can win the West than expected, if not that they will.
  • On Victor Wembanyama:

    “I am very cognizant of not being on the wrong side of history with Victor Wembanyama…sometimes you see a true special talent who breaks the rules. And he breaks so many rules.”
    (Windhorst, 17:14)

• Spurs–Thunder Matchups:
  San Antonio’s defensive length and Wemby’s unique ability to guard SGA without contact discussed as series-shifting.

4. OKC vs. San Antonio: Where Does the Edge Lie? (20:08 – 23:10)

• Wemby’s Minutes:
  Russillo points out Wembanyama’s minutes have been restricted in regular-season matchups with OKC, but if playoff minutes increase, SGA’s usual advantages may vanish.

5. Wembanyama’s Character & Chet Rivalry Origin Story (23:13 – 36:50)

• Wembanyama's Demeanor:
  Windhorst recounts his deep-dive pre-draft reporting on Victor’s unusual maturity, confidence, and “headstrong” yet coachable personality, comparing his surety about Wemby to his conviction about LeBron as a prospect:

  “His makeup was more impressive, or equally as impressive, as his stature… I was 1 billion percent convinced on Victor Wembanyama.”
  (Windhorst, 27:25)

• Wemby vs. Chet (Origin Story):
  Windhorst’s long anecdote about flying to OKC for a low-key preseason game, where Wembanyama and Holmgren reignited competitive fires from their U19 World Cup duel, each going at each other in front of a tiny crowd:

  “Chet Holmgren is practically a four-letter word in the Wembanyama family… They want to kill each other.”
  (Windhorst, 32:30)

  • Tension and competitive banter between the two highlighted as a budding rivalry.

6. Eastern Conference Deeper Dives (38:00 – 50:13)

• Detroit Pistons’ Ceiling:
  • Cade Cunningham’s injury and expected return for playoffs. Windhorst remains skeptical of Detroit’s playoff offense and three-point shooting.

  • “They lose the three point contest like every single game… That is not a survivable ratio deep into a playoff run.”
    (Windhorst, 41:36)

• Other East Teams’ Chances:
  Russillo and Windhorst weigh Philly’s fragility, Miami’s unpredictability, the Cleveland–New York matchup, and what coaching/talent mix is required to pull upsets.

7. Giannis Trade Market & the Team-Building Dilemma (50:13 – 55:10)

• Giannis’ Future:
  • Windhorst outlines why the likely trade market for Giannis isn’t as deep as some assume.

  • “The teams that they (Milwaukee) want to deal with are not wanting to deal with them or are less likely to deal with them than before. That is definitely a challenge in the Giannis thing.”
    (Windhorst, 54:10)

  • Asset-rich young teams like OKC, San Antonio, and Houston may simply prefer their current timelines over chasing Giannis now.

8. Can Tanking Ever Be Fixed? Adam Silver’s Latest Efforts (55:10 – 62:13)

• Tanking "Fixes":
  • Recap of the many anti-tanking changes since 1985: Several lottery revisions, play-in addition, all as yet unsuccessful at fully “solving” the problem.

  • “This is now going to be the seventh change to deal with tanking in my lifetime. Do we believe the seventh change will fix it?”
    (Windhorst, 57:21)

• Incentivizing Winning:
  Windhorst discusses “virtual relegation” as a theoretical solution, but acknowledges true relegation isn’t coming to the NBA.

  “The fix is incentivizing a team to win versus incentivizing a team to lose. That’s the challenge.”
  (Windhorst, 59:04)

• Unintended Consequences:
  Russillo warns every new fix just reshuffles where problems and abuses occur.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Celtics’ Playoff Trust:

  “Tatum always rebounds. When it matters, he rebounds. And he had 12 rebounds in that game. I do not care what his shooting percentage is...I will. He needs to be Jayson Tatum again by the second round of the playoffs.”
  (Windhorst, 05:34)

• On Wemby’s Mentality:

  “His makeup was more impressive, or equally as impressive, as his stature ... I was 1 billion percent convinced on Victor Wembanyama.”
  (Windhorst, 27:25)

• On Rivalry Stakes:

  “No matter what they say, they want to kill each other. And so I, for one, don’t really care what happens in the playoffs in the West as long as we see San Antonio play Oklahoma City in that Western Conference finals.”
  (Windhorst, 36:39)

• On Tanking “Fixes”:

  “This is now going to be the seventh change to deal with tanking in my lifetime ... It’s got to be incentivizing a team to win versus incentivizing a team to lose. That’s the challenge.”
  (Windhorst, 57:21–59:04)

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Segment Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |---------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:00–13:00 | East vs West contender landscape; Celtics and Thunder deep dives | | 13:21–23:13 | Spurs playoff legitimacy & how Wemby changes the logic | | 23:13–29:27 | Wembanyama’s personality, background, and confidence | | 29:31–36:50 | Wemby vs Chet: rivalry origin story & what’s at stake | | 38:00–50:13 | Deep dives: Detroit’s ceiling, Miami/Philly/Cleveland | | 50:13–55:10 | Trade markets: Can anyone actually trade for Giannis? | | 55:10–62:13 | Tanking, Silver’s proposals, and why it’s so hard to “fix” |

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Tone, Style, and Energy

• “Basketball nerd” deep-dive: Both Russillo and Windhorst bring a granular, stats-heavy approach with clear respect for front office process, development, and underlying trends.
• Windhorst tells lengthy, engaging anecdotes—especially about Wembanyama and Chet—which bring league stories to life.
• Russillo is both skeptical and eager, pushing Windhorst for clarity and “league whisperer” insight.
• The tone is conversational but analytical, with inside jokes and honest admissions (e.g., admitting not knowing a player, or when both hosts are “ready for anything in the East”).

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Concluding Note

This episode is a must-listen for NBA fans fascinated by big-picture playoff questions, the inside story on two of the league’s generational big men, and the persistent struggles of league governance. Windhorst provides storytelling and insider access few can match, with Russillo’s “basketball therapist” approach drawing out frank, detailed analysis.

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Recommended Segments for Quick Listening:

• Wemby vs Chet Rivalry Story (29:31–36:50)
• Spurs Break-the-Model Debate (13:21–20:08)
• Tanking Solutions—What (Probably Still) Won’t Work (55:10–62:13)

Transcript

[Ryan Ruocco]

Hey Priscilla listeners. You can find every episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[Brian Windhorst]

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[Ryan Ruocco]

The Ryan Rosilla show is presented by DraftKings. We go for an hour over an hour with Brian Windhorst. We're going to talk about the contenders. We're going to run through both conferences. He has an incredible Wemby story. We're going to talk tanking, but the Wemby story involves Chet and something we're all hoping to see. And we've got Basketball is a game of runs and it moves fast. That's why DraftKings sportsbook is built for live betting. From tip off to the final buzzer, live betting lets you react when momentum shifts. You can adjust in real time, possession by possession, play by play with props, size and next play markets as the action unfolds. DraftKings also has you covered with early exit protection. If you place a pregame player prop and your player starts the game but gets injured in the first half and can't return, you'll get your original bet back in cash. No bonus bets, just real protection when unexpected happens. New to DraftKings bet just $5, you get 200 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app now. Use the code RYAN. That's code RYAN R Y E N to turn five bucks into 200 in bonus bets instantly in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- Gambler or 1-800-Myret. New York call 877-8-HOPE and why or text HOPE and Y. Connecticut call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino in Kansas. Wager apply in Illinois 21 and over in most states. Void in Ontario restrictions apply. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see sportsbook.draftkings.com promos Limited time offer we are very excited to bring back one of my favorite guests. It's Brian Windhorst of ESPN has been covering the NBA for a long time. You can check him out with Tim Bontemps and Tim McMahon on the hoop Collective multiple days a week. It's probably my go to. I don't know, maybe that's how we got you back on is I sent you my Spotify wrapped and I was like, look at this.

[Brian Windhorst]

You did?

[Ryan Ruocco]

I just listened to the podcast.

[Brian Windhorst]

Can this be doctored? Is there like some sort of app that can doctor your Spotify wrapped? But yeah, I was glad that somebody did because we made a nice little video. I'm sure you did, too. Made a nice little video for all the people who were on there. So I'm glad it went out to somebody.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. I tried to find a way to save it, but I think those things were just like a gift and then it was gone.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Ryan Ruocco]

All right, bunch of things I want to run through here. I'm excited. I'm probably too excited. Let me start with a simple question because I think it's a difficult answer. Would you be more surprised if a team from the east won the NBA championship? Or more surprised that a team from the west not named OKC or San Antonio represented the Western Conference just in the NBA Finals?

[Brian Windhorst]

B, B. Basically the question is, Lakers or Denver, can they win the West? Is it more likely for the Lakers or Denver to win the west than it is for the Celtics? Are the Knicks to win the title? I think this, I mean, like, you know, today you're asking me. Last night we just saw Boston beat OKC in a full strength on full strength game. And you know, I did not think it was a ridiculous game. Like if. If Boston had made 24 of 39 threes, then I'm like, well, okay, that's an outlier. It's a. But the way the game went down, which by the way, Boston fell down big early on, had to fight back. I mean, that could have been a Finals game. That could. A Finals game definitely could have played out that. Yeah, if it's Boston, Oklahoma City, I'm picking okc, but I'm saying like six or seven. And when you're saying a game is. When you. Like when you're saying a series is seven games, you're basically saying it's a toss up. So, yeah, Oklahoma City would be favored, probably San Antonio will be favored, but I guess it would just depend on how Boston was playing. But yeah, like the, like, look, I. It's become a bit of a gimmick now, but it's based in analysis and reality. I booked my hotel, finals hotels in Boston two months ago. So I Absolutely believe that they can do it.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I thought it was a really impressive win, and I'm really glad. You know how you have thoughts and you're watching games, you're like, maybe I would say this. Maybe I think this. And there's a moment again with Boston where maybe just watching too much the last few years, where you go, I'm kind of sick of watching them play. Like, I know exactly what it's going to be. And I know what I'm saying is unfair because they're incredibly well coached. They've already proven that this, despite the frustrations at times with their offense. It's a proven concept. They've won a championship. And I'm glad last. Last night happened just to kind of remind me to not let some of the aesthetics of it get in the way of, like, what you think they're capable of, because Tatum. It's not a scoring night from Tatum, but I thought it was just a reminder of, like, hey, do you realize how special this guy is? Which I think gets lost a lot because he's always compared to the few guys in front of him all the time.

[Brian Windhorst]

So the thing about Tatum, and it's been true, as you know, for years on end now, is the bigger the game, the better he rebounds. It's like, this is, like, empirically true. It's not even a debate. You go look at, like, his. The biggest games. Go look who leads the Celtics in rebounds. It's Tatum. I mean, straight down the line. I'm not saying you can't find a finals game or a conference finals game where it was not him. But Tatum always rebounds. When it matters, he rebounds. And he had 12 rebounds in that game. I swear to God, I do not care what his shooting percentage is. I do not want to hear anybody talk about his shooting percentage until the second round of the playoffs. I don't care if he's shooting 20%. I don't care if he's shooting 70%. I will. He needs to be Jayson Tatum again by the second round of the playoffs. So that's roughly going to be the first week of May. So talk to me in five weeks as to where Jayson Tatum is on his shooting percentage. Until then, I'm way more focused on how he trusts pushing off that leg, which I, you know, I have. Scouts are telling me, well, you know, if you look at his two legs, one of them is clearly smaller. I'm like, no, duh. Of course, the one of them is Mike. Like, oh, oh, how. Oh. Oh, my God. What a. What A brutal assessment. Of course, it's smaller. He just had Achilles. So, like, no, I mean, I watched that game and, you know, and look, I don't know is. Let me ask you this. Is Baylor Shireman free? Like, do you believe in Baylor Scheierman getting rotation minutes in a conference finals?

[Ryan Ruocco]

That seems like a lot to ask, but he's been terrific. And I think if you go back over the years, I feel like the Celtics, they're always kind of thinking, like, what else can we do? Right? I think they're one of the smarter organizations, I imagine you'd agree. And I don't think I'm sharing too much, but it was relayed to me in a way. It was like looking at how the Miami Heat had done with their development internally. Okay, we're going to grab this player and we look at him and we've identified some traits, and then we're going to try to develop this guy. And so you have all these stars, you have championship aspirations, and I think maybe some teams can just not worry about that part of it, because the other part is so much more important. And the Celtics are on this internal development run here that I think is remarkable, and I totally understand. It's not like anybody's going to open up a show with like, hey, have you seen Baylor Scheireman's improvement? Like, Jordan Walsh looked like a dmp, and yet he comes in, he has this kind of energy, they turn Hauser into a real thing. Hugo looks like he's going to be a real rotational piece at the very least. And they've identified these players, Keita, you know, on top. So, like, we could go down the list of a bunch of stuff. And I thought what was really interesting is that it was clear OKC was like, we are actually okay with Sam Houser taking shots. You know, when you try to figure out what a team's willing to give up, and Hauser has a pretty tough start, and then they close a Shireman. And it's not only him making shots, Brian, it's him defending SGA where, you know, you're just going to get caught up in the switch. But it's like, you have to win your battle as long as you possibly can to at least disrupt him a little. Again, I'm not suggesting that Baylor Scheireman shut down sga, but that's a tremendous amount of trust in that spot. So if Missoula is willing to do that last night, then that tells me that he's willing to do it.

[Brian Windhorst]

I agree.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Deeper into the Playoffs.

[Brian Windhorst]

Look, I live in Omaha, Nebraska, okay. Grown men walk their dogs on my street wearing Baylor Scheireman jerseys. Like, I don't follow college basketball much, but I will. I can give you chapter and verse on Baylor Scheireman and Ryan Kalkbrenner. All right. I am well aware of their college careers, so certainly it wasn't like he came out of nowhere for me. But I do agree with you. Missoula coached this game like a playoff game. And you know, one of the things that they did was they packed the paint on Shea and so there's two little weaknesses with the Thunder. Actually something that's interesting that I, I need to have some conversations with some people. It's too small of a sample size to really trust and the Thunder got off to a great start in this game. But I will say the Thunders main starting lineup, which is, you know, Shea, Jalen Williams, Hartenstein, Chet, Lou Dort. Lou Dort, they are 2 and 5 this year.

[Ryan Ruocco]

But anyway, I don't think last night's Jalen's game. Like, I don't look at Jalen Williams. He was invisible last night, so I think it's fair to kind of give him a pass considering he's just getting back.

[Brian Windhorst]

Totally agree. But he also played great the game before. So anyway. But I'm just, I'm not focused on it. I'm just saying that was interesting. So Missoula packed the paint on him and Shai really struggled to get as many looks in the paint as he normally does. Now he still got to the line 12 times, still scored 30. But the two little weaknesses that the Thunder have, one is their somewhat shallowness in their terms of creators. Maybe AJ Mitchell could do this under pressure. I'm a big AJ Mitchell fan, so I'm a believer. But you know, basically forcing somebody else besides Shay to initiate and they're not super duper reliable on three point shooting. They obviously can still beat you with the three ball. It's certainly not like a deficiency, but if you're going to set your game plan, selling out to protect the paint and you know, gambling that Lou Dort and Alex Caruso, you know, are going to beat you with the three ball. Jalen Williams is going to beat you with the three ball like that. It's a, it's, it's a, it's a strategy that I can see teams using and that's what Missoula used last night.

[Kyle]

So.

[Brian Windhorst]

So not only did he use, you know, sort of maybe a championship rotation, but he used a Championship, you know, game plan in that one. And I think that's relevant.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, the three point shooting I brought up during the playoffs last year, it's like, do you realize that this is how poorly they are from three in comparison to other playoff teams? And yet they're still winning this thing. And that's just a credit to how special defense is.

[Brian Windhorst]

And if you open up a playoff series and you're like, well, I'm not sure about their three point shooting, literally, Isaiah Joe could hit seven threes that night. Like, it's not that they don't have weapons, but it is on the scheme. It is something.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I was dancing with the idea of another thing where like about a month or so ago I was like, do you want to just pick San Antonio? Do you just want to put the flag in the ground and say, hey, San Antonio's going to do this? And staying on the OKC thing, clearly we get to the rebounding thing, but it doesn't seem to necessarily matter for them. I think it mattered last night. But bigger picture, it's not a fatal flaw because we're still talking about the best team in the league. And then when you think about San Antonio, you're like, all right, historically, if you've run through the youngest teams who win a championship, you got the trailblazers in 77. It's like, average age is 24 years. And some of the average age stuff can be weird because the Thunder are technically younger this year than they were last year. But last year's Thunder teams, the second youngest ever. Then you look at the spurs, where the Harrison Barnes age kind of throws off the entire thing because the guys that are probably going to close a game, it feels like with the development of some of these young players, Barnes might not even be out there where he would have been in the beginning of the season. But we're also talking about a team that just hasn't ever had any playoff run together. So it's as much as I've wanted to do it where I go, look how many times Wemby negates the number one thing this other really good team wants to do. You know, you just go down the list, be like, hey, this team likes to do this. Oh, wait, they can't do their thing against it because of him. It still feels like just a. It would feel irresponsible. Brian, for me, a month ago and maybe even today, I wouldn't blame anybody for doing it. I just can't get there yet because I'd have to think OKC Going through the battles the last couple years would mean some kind of advantage over San Antonio's group.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right? Your experience with the league demands that. That's what you say, right. So every week Tim Bontemps and I do a, what we call it the intelligence file, where we basically talk to a whole bunch of executives, scouts, coaches and like sort of get them off the, you know, we use their quotes, we don't use their names, and we basically say what the league is talking about. And so last week I was, I was at a game and I was sitting there pregame and it was out here on the west coast and we were watching a Spurs game that was going on while we were eating dinner in the pre game press room. And this scout who's been around for 20 years, he works for an Eastern Conference team that's not relevant, but we're having dinner and he goes, you know, I came to the decision. I think San Antonio's going to do it. I think they're going to win the West. I looked at him and we had a conversation about it like, you know, I have not been on that for that, for the, basically the exact same reason. You know, it's almost like. And we'll see what happens. Literally, as I say this, I'm sure it'll guarantee, but you almost never see a freshman led team win the ncaa. Obviously there are fresh, there are freshman stars who contribute, but if, I mean, unless I'm having a, you know, a, you know, a brain fart, I don't think a freshman led team, like, you know, people were like, how did Duke not win the title last year? Well, they were led by freshmen, you know, like, I'm sure if Cooper Flag and Con Knippel were at Duke this year, they'd win it. Very rarely do you achieve the highest thing. The first time you do something like this is, you know, cross life. Right. And so what Bontemps and I have done over the last week, and it's going to publish on Friday, we basically started asking people, scouts, coaches, executives, what have you. Do you think the spurs can do it? And I was kind of surprised with how many people think they can. I don't think anybody is saying they will. I think that particular scout, which he gave me the idea to like to do this, and you're obvious, you know, it's interesting. You're thinking the same thing, you know, you move in the same circles. And the fact that you're bringing this up means that, you know, you're seeing the same thing. You're thinking the same thing as a lot of us are. I'm very cognizant of not being on the wrong side of history with Victor Wembanyama as well. Because sometimes you see a true special talent come through and it's usually once or twice in a generation who does break the rules. And he breaks so many rules. And so I've been listening for the last six, seven days to people that I respect who've been around a long time make cases for me about how the spurs can do it. And there's a bunch of different reasons. One is that one of the reasons why the spurs have had so much success against the Thunder this year is that what you, you know the rules, as you know Ryan, they favor what Shay does, they favor what Jalen does. Jalen and Shea actually play a similar game. They hunt mid range shots and they get in there and they create contact. And it's one of the things that drives Jalen crazy, is that he doesn't get the whistle that Shay does. You know, these are the last two Finals MVPs. Jaelyn thinks he should win the regular MVP. He thinks he's every bit as good as Shay is. He thinks he plays on both ends even better. And he doesn't understand why he doesn't get the same whistle as Shay. But the game is predicated right now, but for a perimeter player that they can go in and they can create the contact, it's totally allowed. Guys on every team do it. There's just a couple of guys who are really talented at it. Jalen is one. Shay is the best at it right now, but that's the weapon. Shay's. When the game is close, what Shay can do to you and stress you out is it's almost unbeatable. But what if you're 7 foot 5 and can defend Shay without having to make contact with him and also defend the rim? Because this is what we're really talking about here. Because Shai gives this incredible. One of my favorite quotes of the year. Shea says when he wins those couple of games in a row a couple weeks ago where he fourth quarter, he's just amazing. He says, I have all the answers to the test. I just have to wait for the questions. It's a beautiful, arrogant, true quote. Basically what he's saying is you play your defense and I have the full array of talent and abilities, experience, savvy, know how to beat whatever defense you throw at me. And he has repeatedly proven that to be true. Except with the 7 foot 5 beast who can actually defend that shot without having, having to be close enough to be pushed off, without giving up the backlog to the paint because he can guard Chet, he can guard Hartenstein without giving up having to guard Shea in the mid range. And so when you think about stuff like that and you think about, you know, another thing that somebody, once, one assistant coach brought up to me, he was like, okay, well, let's just say that, let's just say the seeding ends the way it is now. Let's say Denver's four. I actually think Denver will probably finish the season season strongly. They have no more back to backs. They have mostly home games. Their toughest games are right at the end of the season with San Antonio and Oklahoma City. That's what they finished the season with. And it's likely that the first seed might even be, might even be finalized by the last two games and they won't even play their guys and Denver will even win their quote, unquote, tough game. So he says, let's just assume Denver gets four. I go, okay. He goes, what do you think Oklahoma City? Say Denver plays Oklahoma City and San Antonio plays Los Angeles and maybe, maybe the spurs get the number one seed. I don't know, but let's just say it goes that way. That's the way it is right now. Who do you think come through that series in rougher shape? The spurs or the Thunder? Assuming they win, maybe Denver pulls an upset. You know, whatever. He's like, don't you think that like having to go through Denver will potentially penalize Oklahoma City? Don't you think that'll take something out of them? Like, regardless of that point or whatever? And I know I'm filibustering on you, Ryan, regardless of all that, I think the point is I got executives and coaches trying to state the case for how San Antonio can do it. And maybe that's bias, that people are annoyed by the Thunder because the way they play and they're very physical and they whine about fouls on one end and foul like crazy on the other end and then there's jealousy about them, blah, blah, blah. But I listened to guys for the last week try to explain to me how San Antonio can do it. And that's not what I thought I was going to hear starting that process.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I don't blame him. And if, look, if they're in the Western Conference finals and the 41 regular season number is going to be brought up all the time, I think there's like two things to remember is there's that one I'll never forget that Friday game where I was like, oh, I'm excited. And then OKC sat everybody. And then I was like, okay, I'm no longer as excited about tonight's game. So you could play some game where you're like, you know, if they don't punt on that one, maybe they get that one. It's three, two. Is that really that big of a deal? But if you go through all the teams that Wembanyama's played three or more games against, against OKC, he's averaged 25 minutes a game. I've brought this up before. I think it's like, 21, 21, 23, 26, 28 is the most amount of minutes he's ever played in a game against OKC. And those 25 minutes on average, and I'm not on the exact number, I think you'll be okay with that. That's the lowest minutes per game against any team he's played three or more times. So when you think of the idea of him out there for 35 minutes disrupting basically any of your downhill stuff that you want to do, you're just. I'm not saying it's impossible, like, guys have completed layups against him, but it's. It's. It's a daunting exercise to go. We're never really going to have this kind of downhill advantage thing. It's. It's not necessarily going to matter. And what I love about okc, and I think, like, even last night's game against Boston, you could say, hey, is Dagnal still struggling to figure out, like, what he wants to do rotationally? I think a detractor would say that. Also, if they hadn't pun another Detroit game, they would have gone into this one with 15 straight wins. And I think the Thunder would have been talked about, like, because for some reason, we, like, lose our mind about streaks, and then it becomes they've won. How can anyone pick against this team? And it's like, well, they probably could have had 15 straight if they wanted it. I just will always defend their adaptability. I'd rather have Chet and Hart Stein and then go, okay, fine, now I don't have to play one of them. And that's not us changing to a lesser opponent. That's us deciding that. We have many more pages in the planner here of what we could possibly do. But it's hard to ignore that, especially earlier in the year, and maybe San Antonio took it more seriously OKC because it means more to them and kind of their status in the league. It was the only time I've ever seen where it looked like all the stuff that OKC does to the opponent, where you go, oh, my God, this other team's a mess right now. Like, they can't figure out okc. Everything is hard for them. It was, like, the only time I felt like everything was hard for okc, and it was, like, really alarming. And that was months ago when I wasn't even flirting with this idea. So let me pivot to this, though, because you were kind of the Wembanyama whisperer there for a little while early on before the draft. Is there anything that you learned about him back then that today with his success? And I think his demeanor is as much about the success atop all the physical gifts. Like, I cannot believe somebody understood what was being asked of him this soon in his life. But is there anything that makes more sense to you now that you learned about him going back years before the draft?

[Brian Windhorst]

So, first off, he does accept coaching. Having said that, he's going to do what he wants to do. One of the things that I, as I've watched him play this year has annoyed me at times is how he just. Some nights he just wants to shoot the three. And I'm like, please go inside. He opened the season relentlessly attacking the basket, and I was tearing up. I was like, well, he'll win the next seven MVPs. And as the season's gone, and he did have, like, that, that leg injury. And I think that contributed to it

[Ryan Ruocco]

because there was, I think, the defenses, too. Once, like, people started going, hey, let's get a dog into his hips and then help off of that, because people were playing him straight up with centers. And it was. I still think that game against Dallas, against Anthony Davis at the beginning of the year, I was like, I think this is one of the best games I've ever seen a player play. Which felt ridiculous to say, but keep going.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah, but here's the thing. Like, I've talked to his coaches since. Since he was 12. I mean, I'm not a draft guy at all. I don't have the bandwidth to follow college basketball. I don't. Like, I'm hearing names of guys, like, who are going to be lottery picks. I don't know. I mean, like, I don't know Darius Acuff's game. I know his background. I know he's from Detroit. I know a lot about him. I don't know his game, and I won't know his game until after the NBA season when I can study it, and I'll learn these guys when they get to the NBA. Okay. This is never something I've wanted to do. However, Wembanyama fascinated me so dramatically, and I was the more. And I remember I read this interview that he gave with l', Equipe, which is like the French Sports Illustrated. It's like a daily sports publication in France. And I remember reading this Q and A and being like, oh, my God, this guy is. I mean, I translated it. I had to have it translated. And I was like, I cannot believe some of the things this guy says and the way he sees the world. And so I basically just went to my bosses and said, can I get in on our coverage of him? And thanks to Jonathan Gavoni, who had a long standing relationship with his agents, I got to spend several weeks with him and his family and his coaches in Paris. I've never done that before. I may never do it again. But this is like what the draft process was. In fact, while I was in Paris, the first trip that I made when he was that one year before the draft, the spurs were there also doing their background research. Brian Wright, their general manager. Dave Tellop, who's their head of scouting, he's got some title that's better than that. I'm sorry, Dave, I can't remember what your title is. I've known him for 25 years.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, closed man.

[Brian Windhorst]

And Claudio, who's like their Italian, like, long term, you know, one of the spurs legacy European scouts were all there and like, they were talking to some of the same people I talked to. And, you know, I sat with Vincent Collet, who is the Gregg Popovich of France. He's like the most. The best coach, best French coach of all time. And he was his coach at the time. He was also the national team coach. And to sit with Vincent and listened to have him talk about Victor, and he was telling me, he's like, you know, back when I had Batum, Batum would take three insane shots, and I would pull him out of the game, sit him on the end of the bench, curse him out. And then, you know, not playing for five minutes, he goes, victor takes three bad shots. And I go, okay, Victor take a fourth. You know, he just, you know, and so I got to understand a lot about his background and spent time with him and talking to him and Ryan, the more that I spent time with him, because, you know, a lot of times when you come across anybody in life, right, the more you get to know them, you're like, aha. Now I see why this person has been fired from two jobs. Now I see why this person's been divorced. Now I see why this person cannot get along with that person. Or now the more I got to know Victor and. And the more I understood him and the more I watched him play, the more I was, like, convinced of his superstardom. And, you know, you could say, well, you've never done this with draft picks like you. You know, the only other person that I knew like this was LeBron. So my. You know, my. You know, I'm a little bit warped in that way. But I was. I would see and think about him in comparison to LeBron. Actually, Cooper Flagg reminds me way more of LeBron, the way he plays and everything. But I was young and dumb. I was 25 when LeBron came in the league. I didn't know what the hell I was talking about, but I was 1 billion percent convinced he was going to be a superstar, because I knew his whole background and his makeup, and I was 1 billion percent convinced on Victor Wembanyam. And I know that's not a hot take. It's like, oh, this guy with generational size and skill is going to be good. Boy, what an incredible eye for talent. I get it. I'm not saying that it was. That it was, like, a revolutionary opinion. I'm just saying, as I got to know his makeup, his makeup was more impressive or equally as impressive as his stature. And so when the spurs won, well, anyway, with Colette and all those guys, I just learned that he was very headstrong and, frankly, arrogant. And when you see that headstrongness and arrogance coming through in the NBA, I just smile because I'm like, yeah, this is the way he's always been. He was still saying stuff like this when he was 12, and he's always been successful, and so much of what he has done has been savvy and smart. And so, look, I'm convinced of his success, and so I was not convinced it was going to happen in year three. It's happening sooner than I thought, and so it's just tough for me to say that he can't pull it off because I'm just so inclined to believe in him. And that said, I have such an affinity for the Thunder. So, Ryan, I'm sorry, I'm just totally dominating this.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I'm sorry, but dominate away. If we keep feeding you in the post.

[Brian Windhorst]

When Victor played his first NBA game, it was a preseason game in Oklahoma City. It just so happened that his first game was in Oklahoma City. And. And it was in. Chet Holmgren had missed his whole rookie year. So it was going to be Chet Holmgren's first game, too. It was on a Monday night in October. It was the first preseason game out of the gate. I was working in Los Angeles. I said, I'm going to fly to Oklahoma City. I'm not going to fly home to Omaha. I'm going to fly to Oklahoma City because I want to see this game day of. I'm going to fly in. My wife was annoyed because she's like, I need to come home. Our son had a basketball game. My boss is like, wait a minute. Why do you want an extra expense to go to Oklahoma City, by the way, there was 4,000 people there. Like, there was not even any local media there. Like, it was football season. Like, they were like, what's OU gonna do at quarterback? You know, like, you know, what crazy thing did Mike Gundy say in his press conference that day? You know, like, they were not focused on the NBA. So I come to this game, and Victor, I don't remember the exact stats, so don't hold me to this. There was like 17 scouts there. 17 scouts, like, unheard of for a Monday night preseason game in October, right? Because they all saw the game on the schedule too. And I knew that Chet and Victor had some beef because they had played against each other in the U19 World cup, and Covid sort of just. They didn't get to play against each other as much as other young players do on the international level because Covid disrupted it. But they did get to play against each other one time in the World cup, the U19 World Cup. It was in. Somewhere in Eastern Europe, like, I want to say in Latvia maybe, or Lithuania. Anyway, the US Won. Victor outplayed Chet in the final, but Victor fouled out and Chet was named the mvp. Actually, the star of the game was Jaden Ivey, but Chet was named MVP of the whole tournament. And I just know from talking to Victor that that stuck in his craw. He hated the fact that Chet Holmgren had this thing over him this World Cup. And I also knew about Chet that Chet would talk trash and was pretty arrogant himself and looked not arrogant, but confident. And in the first half of this game, I want to say Victor scored 18 and Chet scored 20. And they absolutely went at each other. They, like, tried to dunk on each other. And like, I was looking around and people were just like, kind of not paying attention. People were just like, you know, just, we're here with our first game. You know, look at the scoreboard. I've got goosebumps. I've got goosebumps. And they ended up talking trash to each other on social media after the game. Like, I think, like, ESPN ran a highlight of, like, Wembayama dunking, and it was, like, over Chet. And, like, Chet talked trash back to him. Like, instantaneously. They were talking trash. I think the Thunder have said, have tried to shut this down, but I know how Chet feels, okay? And so in the hallway after the game, Victor's mother, Elodie, who's a wonderful woman, Victor's mother is there. She's come to his first game. She's in the hallway afterwards. And there's Victor's there, Victor's agent's there, and Victor is there, and Elodie is there. And I'm saying hello to them because I've gotten to spend some time with them. And Chet comes down the hallway, and Chet stops to say hello. And now I know. I know, Ryan, that Chet Holmgren is practically a foul name in the Wembanyama family. Not like, because he personally did anything to him or anything like that, but just I know from having spent time with him that losing to the United States in that game where he felt fouling out was unfair, that he has never gotten over it. And so I know this. So Chet comes by and says hello. And I'd never met Chet before. And Chet. And Victor says hello. And he goes, chet, this is my mom, Elodie. And Victor. Chet shakes Elodie's hand. Elodie's. You know, I'm like this little shrimp. Because, like, the agent, Buna njai, he's like. I don't know. He's like, six' two, six' three. Elodie is like, six' two, Victor, seven' five, Chet, seven' two. I'm this little kid looking up at all the grownups, right? And Chet says, oh, I played against Victor in that one time in Latvia, you know, almost like, you know, friends. Oh, yeah. You remember that one time we hung out, Ryan, when we were at that bar in Manhattan Beach? We hung out. Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. That was great. It's good to see you again. And Elodie just looks at him and goes, I remember. And I wanted to, like, just fist pump watching this scene, because Chet was needling. Chet was needling because he's like, oh, don't you remember? I kicked your son's ass. Nice to meet you. And so Chet rocks down the hall, and I follow him and I go to introduce myself to him and he goes it's nice to meet you. No, he is 19 years old, you know, right. Maybe he's 20 and he's like he's never played an NBA game and he says to me, it's nice to meet you. I look forward to you talking about me and covering my success or something like that. Ryan, I was so energized by all of this and so this long winded story is my way of telling you that I have been pining for the Thunder spurs rivalry that we are about to see explode on the scene for years. And it's not just Chet against Victor, but their personalities are perfect for this rivalry and the Thunder have been very well drilled. Do not do anything with arrogance. Do not do anything to show up the opponent. You know, we're going to be all respectful the presti way and it works and all this stuff. Don't open a bottle of champagne even when you've won the championship. That's the whole pressy way and it's all working and it's all great. But I am so excited about this and we are on the verge of it and I can tell you, no matter what they say, they want to kill each other. And so I for one don't really care. The real talk, I don't really care what happens in the playoffs in the west as long as we see San Antonio play Oklahoma City in that Western Conference finals. The rest of it, I mean, I'll cover it, I'll talk about it, I'll do the hits, I'll fulfill my job duties. That's what I want to see. And so I'm sorry that I grabbed the mic and went off like that.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Never apologize for great storytelling. All right, before we dive into today's breakdown, a quick word on the tool that keeps people's workflow tighter than my takes. Microsoft 365 copilot the world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn [e-mail] M365Copilot get in the game with a college branded Venmo debit card and earn up to 5% cash back at some of your favorite brands with Venmo Stash Rewards. Upgrade your Superfan status with special edition school designs so you can pay for your game day wings and rep your team at the same time. You can add your Venmo debit card to your mobile wallet as soon as you sign up and pay online and in store right from your phone. And the best part, the card is tied right to your Venmo account. Got paid back for dinner. Immediately access the money in your Venmo balance and spend it on what you want. Game day snacks, tickets, new merch. You can easily split purchases in the app and there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Score more with a college branded Venmo debit card and get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash. Sign [e-mail] collegecard the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA Select Schools available Venmo Stash bundle Terms and exclusions apply at Venmo me stash terms max $100 cash back per month I noticed when you were kind of just running through some of the stuff there in the east, when I started it right, I was like, hey Easter team. And you said boss, you said New York. You didn't say Detroit. Now it very well may have been you didn't say Detroit because we all do this job and sometimes you don't say a player, sometimes you don't say a team. And it's actually not an act against that society. But with the cade injury and I would say an offensive profile. Although when I ran the numbers this morning, morning and looking at it month to month and after the All Star break, it's actually not as bad as everybody seems to talk about it being. And I think Bickerstaff's still kind of searching for what he wants and I understand when he changes his closing group it's usually like matchup based. And I'm like, okay, he's going with the Asar move here because of this defensive assignment or Asar is going to be watching because of the priority that they're going to need here. And then there's the Dana Jenkins thing that I've been fascinated with because like it's such a credit to him and I understand the role that he plays. But then I think about him like game six or game seven going, I know he's cool with taking the shot, by the way, which is why he's even in the league with the background that he has. But really it all comes down to Kate. So I don't know if that was just, hey, we were running through some teams. You didn't mention them or if you're kind of like TBD on them with the Cade Lund thing, which I believe as of this morning, we're still a week away from when he'd actually be reevaluated, which is always a very important word to remember. The definition of.

[Brian Windhorst]

Have you ever had a rib injury?

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, but not something like this, right.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, the collapsed lung, it's more severe. But I, a few years ago, fell on a boat. People fall on boats all the time, very embarrassingly. And cracked my rib.

[Ryan Ruocco]

What kind of machine were you on?

[Brian Windhorst]

It was in the Bahamas. It was a snorkeling trip. And I slipped and it was extraordinarily embarrassing and extraordinarily painful. And the first, like five or six. And I realized he doesn't technically have a rib injury. Like, they didn't say he has a rib injury. It's more of, like, getting his wind back. But I'm sure that rib hurts. The first four or five days are really tough. And then when you get out of heals, like the doctor said, I got X rays and the doctor's like, okay, well, look, in fact, I talked to an NBA player, I think I talked to Larry Nance, who had had a cracked rib, and he played with it, and he said, there's this, there's this vest you can put on. It's going to hurt like hell to get it on and off, but once you get it on, it'll be good for you. He goes, you know, you could consider it, but I didn't do that. But anyway,

[Ryan Ruocco]

Did you look into ordering it? Because I would love just when it was sitting there in the, the shopping cart and you're like, I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

I think you probably need help to get it in and out of it. I was still, it was doing shows. I actually, I won't tell that story. But anyway, it took, you know, the first four or five days are really hard, but then, you know, it does get better. And so I, I'm not trying to say I know how he's feeling, but I, I, I believe he'll be back for the playoffs. And I even, I'm going to say I'll bet he's going to be close to 100%. He may start slow, but really, the Pistons are going to need him to be more full power, probably second round. I don't mean with Philly, like, ramping up. It's hard to trust Philly. Like, I don't know, they mean they could end up playing Charlotte. Like, that might not be Easy. But I feel like Cade's going to be okay. So I'm going to assume the Cade's going to be okay. Here's the thing about Detroit. They lose the three point contest like every single game and they're 28th in makes and they're 22nd in percentage. And in the modern game, it's hard to get the math on your side. Now, I love what Dennis Jenkins said the other day because they won their first three games after Cade got hurt and they had that really nice win over the Lakers. And their defense actually, when Cade first went down, their defense actually picked up. Like you could tell that JB challenged them saying, listen, we're not going to have our offensive leader. So the answer, you know, is to just to defend more. And they have. And I love that Dennis Jenkins said that. He's like, we're not afraid of anybody because we know that we're going to defend. And that is an old school playoff mentality and I love it. But it's very hard for me to make the case for them winning 12 games because really I'm, you know, can they get to the finals? It's really hard for me to make the case for them winning 12 games when I think in a playoff setting where they're going to be able to game plan against Cade. And what I mean by that is they're very limited in their offensive game planning or their offensive creation. And so they're just going to game plan in a way that makes it hard on Cade and they're not going to. And they're going to lose the three point battle, like probably five out of every six games. And like it really, it's like if they only lose the three point battle by three or four, it's almost like a good job. But it's these games where they, where they make nine threes and their opposition makes 18, that's like they've won plenty of those games this year. But that is not a survivable ratio deep into a playoff run. And I could be proven wrong. Like, you know, maybe they get to the conference finals, you could play this back. And they've been outshot by seven threes a game. And they're like, yeah, well guess what? Other than those threes, we shut their asses down maybe. But it's hard for me to create a scenario where I believe that they can make a long run based on that.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I'm ready for anything in the East. You know, looking at it this morning, you know, Detroit, I think you'd want to Play Philadelphia, depending on how the play and stuff works out here. Right. If you're running through those teams, I don't. I'm. I think we're on the show because Serutti is a huge Magic fan and I. I've taken kind of a personal interest in some of the Palo bashing because I just feel like you can't be as good as he was as soon as he was and then now you're just going to be bad. And he's had some really good games, but I thought that OKC game, he was terrific and then he had another game and I think it was. Might have been the Cleveland game where I just see him incredibly frustrated. So I have no issues playing Orlando right now outside of like Anthony Black and Franz both come back. But I, I just. I don't know. That team seems done. I wouldn't necessarily be excited to play Charlotte. I'd rather play Philadelphia, even though George and Embiid went off last night against Chicago. So that was kind of good. I mean, I know what the Philly plan is, is like as long as we just have the four guys, like, we actually might have a shot at this.

[Brian Windhorst]

And the problem though is what if they have the four guys and they're awesome in game one, but by game four, two of them are hu. Like, even if they're full power, like, I don't even know at the start of a series whether I can depend on him to finish the series.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, and that's another reminder here too. Is that likely one big time guy is going to go down in each conference early in the playoffs and then that changes the story. I mean, it happens basically every single year. So we shouldn't act surprised. I don't think Miami's an easy out. And this is not like the classic, like, oh, Miami, they're always in it because I kind of wrote them off. And I think I feel like I wrote them off because I found them so boring. But I don't think Detroit Miami is an easy series at all. If that ends up being your 18 matchup.

[Brian Windhorst]

I have no idea about Miami. It's very hard for me to project. They seem like they make things harder on themselves than they need to. There's a lot of different opinions about Miami out there. You know, some people are like, man, like, you know, they. They make the most of their roster. Other are like this, you know, they use this Noah LaRoche offense where they, you know, they don't do pick and roll or they at least do a lot less pick and roll. Some people just go.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I mean, it's a completely different approach. I mean, the pace, spoiler historically, and what they're doing now, which I know you already know, but go ahead.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. And some people think that that's a gimmick that will never work. So Bam is, you know, bam is an incredible talent, but some people debate whether this system is even the best for him. Like, he doesn't. To his credit. Like, they were like, hey, this bread and butter that you've built your whole career on, we're going to take that play away. And he actually had a pretty rough start to the season learning the new system, and he never complained about it publicly once. Maybe he complained about it privately, but he was only supportive. Like, it's all. It's all, like, good stuff, but, like, they're also, like, defensively one of the worst they've ever been. Like, you know, so I don't know. It's hard. Miami is a hard team for me to read. Like, you could say to me, hey, they're going to pull an upset in the first round. And I could be like, okay, like, I could see that. But, you know, last year, they. Their performance in the playoffs was devastatingly awful. So. And these are mostly the same players, you know, other than, like, Norm Powell.

[Ryan Ruocco]

So I don't know is a preference of New York or Cleveland in the playoffs? Because, look, we've already talked Boston, we've talked to Troy. Is the preference for New York over Cleveland because of James Harden? James is his first name. James Harden's playoff resume.

[Brian Windhorst]

You know what would actually be fascinating in the Sixers are healthy or Maxi's about to come back again. I have no idea whether they're going to stay healthy. They're only, like, a game out of fifth place. What happens if, like, I think Cleveland is highly incentivized to get to stay in four, because I think they match up better with Detroit than they do with Boston. And they have the easiest schedule. Of all the Eastern teams. They have the easiest schedule. New York has the toughest. So in theory, the Cavs could. If they finish like, 8 and 1 or something, and the Knicks finished, like, 4 and 4, which probably not. They'll probably win more than that. But there's a scenario which the Cavs could get to 3. The Cavs could be incentivized to stay at 4 to make sure they're on the same side of the bracket as the Pistons because they've had trouble with the Knicks and the Celtics this year. And what happens if Philly plays Cleveland in the 4, 5, and Harden is going back to Philly for playoff games would be interesting. Cleveland's record with Harden is very good. I think it's like 14 and 4, and their offense has been top three in the league since he got there. But defensively, they have completely cratered. It's not all his fault. They've picked up some bad habits. But it's hard for me to believe in Cleveland right now because their defense has been so terrible for the last six weeks. And Kenny Atkinson is calling them out. He's caught. I'm sure he's called them out privately for a while now. He called them out publicly earlier this week, trying to get them to. To be. To improve. So he's obviously worried about it. So right now, Cleveland's not playing good enough defense for me to sit there and say, oh, yeah, they're going to win three playoff rounds. They certainly have the offense for it, but they don't have the defense for it right now. So that's my hesitation on them. And New York is uniquely structured to beat Boston. You know, New York's entire roster was. Was put together to beat Boston, and guess what? They're one and, oh, against them in the playoffs, and they're two and one against them during the regular season. So they play one more time. I think it's next week, you know, and that game won't mean everything, but it won't mean nothing.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I'm ready for anything in the East. I really am. I have a Western question here, a couple more things that I want to get to, but you and the guys in your pod, you talked about Giannis, and for the most part, like, the general premise is just, hey, we're all sick of this collectively. I had Austin Rivers on, and I even presented, like, a theory, is Giannis getting mad? And I didn't even know that I believed it. Right. We're just podcasting here. So it was like, is Giannis finding something else to be upset about? Right. With a. In a relationship that he does want to break up with? I don't. I mean, and then I was thinking, like, well, why wouldn't he just want to sit out and make sure that he's healthy, knowing that that extension's on the table and does he pull, like, a Bradley Beal thing here? He's like, let me get the 275 million, and then I'll worry about all this stuff a little bit later. Like, all of these things could potentially be in play. But what I thought was. Was kind of Interesting. Like, even trying to figure out what that trade would be. I remember when you were on with us months ago and you said, it's funny because whatever you think of Stefan Castle, like, the spurs said they wouldn't trade him for anybody, and we both kind of smiled about it. Now I wonder if they would trade Dylan Harper for anybody. I mean, that's how impressed I am with what this team has done. And the Carter Bryant minutes have been incredible here, too, but, like, two of the potential landing spots. And I don't think Presti ever would have been the guy even if he had lost Game seven last year, that decides then to use the result to alter the course of how he's building his roster. He's just not that guy. I think we do it too often where we get a result, we don't. And then we asked them to completely change all of these things. So I don't even know that he would have done it. But okc. It doesn't make any sense. And now the San Antonio match doesn't really even make any sense. And the more I look around for, like, where Giannis would, if he's going to do this this summer, say, before the draft, where he would go, where he'd feel like it's a good basketball destination for him, that also has some kind of asset, I think, that market for him, and it's not a reflection of him as a player, but I think that market's gotten a lot more difficult in the last couple months.

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. So here's the question. Like, we don't know everything that the Bucs were offered, but we have some idea of what they were offered. The question is one of the reasons, I think they still had some belief that they could do something in the second half of the season. That was part of the reason they didn't trade Giannis. The other part of the reason is that they thought that the offers would improve in the summer because more teams potentially be able to trade more stuff. Trades in the summer are easier when they're big deals. I. One thing I wonder is if that will be true. You know, Giannis has now had a couple of more injuries, and, you know, if you trade for him, you got to give him the 270, otherwise, he's not going to sign it. And I'm sure there will be teams who are. I'm not saying teams will not, but is, you know, but my question is, do you think that they'll get better offers this summer than they got in the winter? You know, I don't know if the answer is an automatic yes, maybe, maybe they will, maybe I'm wrong. But one of the challenges that I think Milwaukee had was the teams that they wanted to make a trade with. I think were, as you just said, San Antonio, Oklahoma City. And the third team I would put in there that I think would be very attractive would be Houston. You know, these are teams that have a bunch of picks, including picks that are not theirs, that you could, you know, because if you're trading them Giannis, you're trading them a player that you think is going to make them a championship contender instantly. You don't necessarily want their picks, but those teams have other teams picks you could get and none of them were interested in him. And as you said, certainly Houston, Houston's the 1 team, like depending on how the way this thing's gone with Houston, but Houston can also look you in the eye and say we like our team. And when Fred Van Vliet comes back, you're going to think we're going to be different and we'll do something with the, to give us more depth of point guard in the off season. Like, I don't think Houston is, is necessarily going to jump into that. And so that's really the challenge. The teams that they want to deal with are not wanting to deal with them or are less likely to deal with them than they were before. So that is definitely a challenge in the Giannis thing. Now the other thing is the lottery like you wanted to, you know, ideally, if you're going to start a rebuild, you start a rebuild with one of the dudes in this draft and, and you know, maybe the, I mean, the Bucks, because they've, I think, handled their season poorly. They're now looking at single digit percentage probably to get up into the top four. But look, it could happen. Basketball karma, whatever, they could hit on that and get a top four pick and then trade Giannis for another top 10 pick. Like that's one thing they got to wait and see the lottery. Like, like maybe the teams you want to deal with change. Once you see the way the lottery falls, that's, that's definitely a possibility. But I just wonder where Giannis's value is relative to where it was in January, February.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Silver said, we're going to fix tanking off of the Giannis topic here with this. I wonder if it could just use a rebranding because the other night I'm watching John Pulakitas running around, Lawson Lovering, Markel Foltz back in the association two games under his Belt with the Raptors. I thought there might have been a different Ryan Rupert because I saw somebody named Ryan Rupert averaging 30 minutes a game for about a month. It's the same one. Why don't we just call it NBA spring training?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. You're using your full media background. Yeah.

[Ryan Ruocco]

And I'll let you go. I was. I get so upset when there's somebody running around in a game and I'm like, I have no idea who that is. And it's going to happen to me. I mean, it's going to happen to me a couple times a month where you just go, I don't know who that is. I don't know who that is. And I get mad and I stop everything. I look them up, I see where they were drafted. I looked through the transactions. I'll even look at their high school Wikipedia stuff because I'll be like, if he's playing in a game, I should know who he is. When Pucalitis was out there, Apulokitis, I was like, what? What happened?

[Brian Windhorst]

Ryan, I'm telling you, I did not know who John Pulakitis was. I had never heard the name. I am watching the Cavs play the Mavericks on a Sunday a couple weeks ago. We were doing Countdown that day. I'm watching one of the TVs. This guy is reigning in threes. I have zero. Like, this is like, you know, Shaquille O', Neal, who he played for. I had no idea of his existence in the world. And this is my profession. And he is reigning in threes in this game. And I'm like, all right, I am in big trouble because I do not know who this guy is.

[Ryan Ruocco]

So look, the question really is here. When Silver says this, then this means we are going to see significant changes. We've only talked about fixing tanking now for I don't know how many decades. And it's kind of every new. It's kind of everybody's favorite things. Like, here's my plan, here's what I have. I don't know. That'll be as extreme as some of the proposals. But where do you think this is going?

[Brian Windhorst]

Yeah. All right, so this is what I've been saying. So the lottery came in in 1985. So that was the first significant anti tanking maneuver. They've changed the lottery four times since then. So that's five not counted in the lottery. Change was the creation of the play in tournament, which is an anti tanking measure. It's not specifically related to the lottery, but that's going to Be six. So this is now going to be the seventh change to deal with tanking in my lifetime. Do we believe the seventh change will fix it?

[Ryan Ruocco]

Well, what does fixed mean?

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, that's the thing. I mean, what's the plan?

[Ryan Ruocco]

The easy one is like, hey, reward competitiveness and just invert the entire thing. And then I think about like imagine. Imagine a NFL team that were. Well, it's not 9 and 7 anymore, but say 9 and 8 because of an injury and they end up with Joe Burrow instead of all of the other teams. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just, I'm trying to prepare people for.

[Brian Windhorst]

Right.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Do you want the Milwaukee Bucks? Well, I don't know. I'm trying to think of like the best example of this. A team that's outside everything because Milwaukee was at some point. I mean, all these teams aren't that good. So I don't know that there's a birth correlation to like, do you want Darren Peterson on this team? Because none of these teams are any good that are outside of the playing. But I don't know.

[Brian Windhorst]

Well, Silver, Silver tried to talk about this a little bit. He was trying to draw a line to the difference between a rebuilding team and a tanking team. Because like for example, a team that has Trey Young and Anthony Davis on it is not a rebuilding team. Now you can argue that those two aren't going to lead you to the promised land, but that's not a rebuilding team. Now I don't. I don't know the health status of those two players. I just know that I think they would be playing under different circumstances. So like Utah, very clearly, if their whole roster was playing, would be in the play in, if not the playoffs. Okay, I think that's pretty clear. Part of the reason why they've had to tank so hard is because their roster isn't that terrible. And so this is what. There's a line being drawn. But I'm not going to get into all that because it gets tiresome and tedious. Really what you have to do, I mean really the fix on this is relegation. Like this is, you know, this is what they do in Europe with soccer and it's a complete non starter in the NBA. And so. But the whole concept of relegation is the teams at the bottom are incentivized to win or else they face dire consequences. Well, they're never going to agree to demote a team to the G League even though that would solve tanking in five seconds. It would never happen. So it's pointless so how do you make a virtual relegation? And that's what I think they're looking at. How do you incentivize winning instead of incentivizing losing? Then we get it. So that's basically the only statement I have. Incentivize winning, not losing. Then all of the white papers and PowerPoint presentations on the 11 point plans on how to do it will pour in. But at the end of the day, it's got to be incentivizing a team to win versus incentivizing a team to lose. That's the challenge.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I don't know that he says it, though. I mean, you must be on board with the idea that it is going to be a more significant change than what we've seen by just changing the lottery odds. But I think the lottery odds is like a really good example of the unintended consequences. And I remember even being a kid in elementary school reading about the lottery because of the Houston Rockets, and you were like, what do they do? And you're like, well, that doesn't seem right. And then every time that they've changed the lottery and then they've had outcomes that they don't like, then it's like, hey, maybe we actually had it better when it was more weighted to the teams of the worst records. But we did that. Then we had these chases the last couple of weeks. My thing is always, like, accepting that this is just the hardest transactional league, which I say all the time, if you are a gm, a potential gm, interviewing, you can't sell cap space anymore. You can't sell free agent destination, you can't sell coaching. You can't say, hey, I'm just going to be better at trading than everybody else, when trading's never been harder. So I don't know if there was a way to make all that easier. Probably not, because it's only five on five. I don't know if the sport is like the sport. The way it's constructed. It's just doing. It's too important to get one of those top guys.

[Brian Windhorst]

And he announced, we're going to get it done by May.

[Ryan Ruocco]

That's wild.

[Brian Windhorst]

He's like, we're going to fix this. Full stop by May. All right, everybody, we'll see you then. It was like, okay, good luck to you.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Next time we have you on, I'll try not to choke to death. And I will. I'll ask you about MVP and Rookie of the Year. I had it written down here. But I think we're going to have you on before that, hopefully. So we'll do that and we'll save it for them. Thanks so much for spending an hour with us, dude. Appreciate it.

[Brian Windhorst]

I enjoyed it, man. Take care. I'll see you soon.

[Ryan Ruocco]

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[Kyle]

You want details?

[Cerutti]

Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?

[Kyle]

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid.

[Cerutti]

So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Three amigos. Right at it. Getting ready for the weekend. Cerutty. Kyle, what's up? Oh, how was everybody?

[Cerutti]

I was just gonna say you don't ask how we're doing anymore because I had a bunch of stuff for you.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Let's go.

[Cerutti]

It's grilling season. I cooked two fat New York strips yesterday. I mean, to really kick off the season doing great. Somebody just asked me to be in a golf league, and it's the same league that my dad is in, and we don't know how to feel about that. There's a lot. It's just a lot of good stuff. It's going to be 70 today, so I was hoping you'd. You'd fire off of how we doing? Because I'm doing great.

[Kyle]

There is a glimmer in Kyle's eye that I. I'm not. This is even a joke. This is why you got to watch on Netflix. But, my goodness, it's just. He's a different guy. He just moves back northeast. The sun's out. I'm telling you, the seasonal depression, it's a real thing. Sun comes out here, and you're back.

[Cerutti]

I think the golf course is reopened this weekend, so.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I love Kyle. I really do. I wish I had a little more Kyle in me. Well, yeah, Bogart. As I was saying, I knew phrasing. We still doing phrasing.

[Cerutti]

Well, I'm glad you guys are happy for me because. Yeah, I'm beaming.

[Brian Windhorst]

I am.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I love your joy. Brings me joy. I mean that. Thank you. I believe it.

[Kyle]

So you're not. There's no, like, nerves. No, I'm just saying there's no nerves about the St. John's Duke game. Like, he's just like, whatever happens happens kind of thing.

[Cerutti]

Absolutely. And my buddy Jim Cunningham is taking a drive up from Westchester, and we're going to watch it out this Friday, so we'll have a little moral support. You know, this is also good. Also good stuff.

[Ryan Ruocco]

FaceTime me. All right. Send me an alert text. Hey, I'm about to FaceTime you.

[Cerutti]

You can fucking book it. Give him a window. Why don't you just dump that right now?

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah. Let's get a little tip off. I'm put on my Chris Mullen Jersey from, like, 19.

[Cerutti]

Hell, yeah.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Well, it's not from the 80s, but I was thinking about going somewhere just wearing the Chris Mullen jersey. I think you should.

[Kyle]

I think you should just, like, no sleeves either.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Just. Just.

[Kyle]

Just tank.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Oh, it has no sleeves.

[Kyle]

Well, I was gonna say, but you could put sleeves under.

[Cerutti]

You don't put in the kind of work he puts in to wear a T shirt under your basketball jersey. That's one thing you're not gonna do.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I wore a T shirt underneath my jersey when I was a little kid, though, because of one Chris Mullen. Now Shireman's doing it. So.

[Kyle]

Yeah, I used to think those. I remember, like, remember was it Colette Alame, Yukon Shout out, national champ. He used to wear that big baggy T shirt under the jersey. I was like, I don't understand that look. Like, I don't get it. The older I get. Like, you know what?

[Cerutti]

I kind of understand some of the action shots, like the fallaway jumpers and the big T. It just, it does work. It does look pretty cool.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Next time I play, I might play in a big T under my uvm Lacrosse penny, which we learned were not pennies.

[Kyle]

Don't go full Adam Sandler. But yeah, like, you know, an oversized

[Ryan Ruocco]

tee, maybe a 7 inches Sandler. You know, imagine he talks some shit.

[Cerutti]

I mean, everyone leaves those games saying, that guy's awesome.

[Ryan Ruocco]

So maybe, maybe we put that. Have you, have you guys focus on the realistic goals list over here on my notepads.

[Kyle]

I'm sure you've seen it because it's been sent to me a thousand times and people have been like, hey, you have to show this to Kyle and Ryan. But have you seen that little Kid video? The St. John's video?

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kyle]

Where he's just screaming in like 2016 about like, I can't believe I work for this sorry ass team. Like, my life sucks. And it's just like this compilation and it's beautifully edited and you know, just to think, you know, 10 years ago, where they were and where they are now. It's.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

How it's hard to be sad.

[Cerutti]

I watch it every day because I see it every day. Like I don't keep finding it. But yeah, we'll put the sound up for that one.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Over the last couple days, Duke would be the best. I remember I went to Montreal and they used to play Duke all the time and they had the wind down there. That was like all timer. That was probably one of the happiest days of my life because I think it was the only time St. John's wasn't ranked, but they were good. And however the rankings were that week, I think I'm remembering this correctly. It was like the first time Duke lost to a non ranked or unranked, non conference team in like forever. And then they had the other one and I was in Montreal just because it's like a bunch of people got together. We used to just run up to Montreal all the time. And I remember being like, I'm not meeting you guys because it's too important. It's the St. John's Duke. So here we go.

[Kyle]

I'm going to keep going. Not to. I'm not going to put a hex on this because I don't think it really matters. But assume if they do beat. Let's assume they beat Duke, everyone's happy. You rather play UConn for what, a fourth time?

[Cerutti]

Actually, I would. I would.

[Kyle]

You'd rather play. You'd rather try to be UConn for three times in one season?

[Cerutti]

I would.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I would not.

[Cerutti]

Really.

[Kyle]

Okay. Okay. You'd rather play in Michigan State?

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah. Although I would imagine UConn would rather. Would they rather play Duke? That doesn't seem. That doesn't seem accurate. Let's not go that far.

[Kyle]

I think they'd rather play St. John's yeah.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, they'd probably rather. Because it's like, you know, with St. John's you're just say it again. When it goes bad for those six, eight minutes, you just hope you're down eight and not 18 after, because it's gonna happen. And you just get a. I might start smoking. Just go outside on the deck.

[Cerutti]

Just pre. Get a pack of spirits.

[Kyle]

This is my down double digits. Pack of cigarettes. Yeah.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Break the case for putting in the sink. Yeah. So if you don't want your kid to smoke, though, have them hang out in nursing homes when he's young.

[Cerutti]

Yeah, Depressing.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Like, ugh. All right, let's get to some emails here. This is a good one. I mean, this could be the entire show, I think, with the feedback that we're getting from here. And apparently I almost choked to death turning Wind Horse probably added most of that out.

[Kyle]

So the audience is not really going to know what you're talking about. But you did have a bit.

[Cerutti]

But if you do it now, I'll leave it in. Now that we brought it up.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah. Now, I don't know. That's a rough listen, guys. Like dying. Choking. I don't think anybody wants to hear that. Maybe some of the people who don't. Who just like the NBA content don't like me.

[Cerutti]

Well, I'll tell you what. Sometimes Steve will mute his thing on the video call, but I. So I can't tell he's done it. And then. But he actually coughs on his recorded thing.

[Kyle]

And I'm like, I thought I was helping you out. That's totally fooling. Yeah, you're right.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Anyway, look at this show's getting even better. Trial and error.

[Kyle]

You know what I need?

[Ryan Ruocco]

Penicillin might have done it, I think. Okay. We did have somebody asking because we did. Success. Succession Characters to do Game of Thrones characters for the show. I, you know, I don't know. Who wants to be hot pie? You know, that doesn't seem like a lot of fun. He pulled that one out.

[Kyle]

That's great.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah. But I also just thinking back, like, I'm not even Logan Roy. Like, I just don't think if you had to come up with somebody you were most like. But, you know, sometimes there's not an answer. I'm not as mean as Logan Roy. There's people I like. I don't think Logan Roy loved his kids. I've already said it. I'll say it again. Okay. Is my bachelor party over the top? Hey guys. 28 year old male, 62175. No impressive gym stats as I moved from an apartment with a fitness center to a house with dumbbells. Only go up to 15 pounds. Don't worry, have heavier ones. Don't worry, heavier ones are on the registry. Oh, so this guy's getting married and he put dumbbells on his wedding.

[Cerutti]

He had to fight for those or she just gave him five spots. You're like, I don't care.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I don't want to know.

[Kyle]

Yeah. Hashtag girls who lift. You know.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, maybe that. Are you going to start pole vaulting? What is this? I did run a half marathon last summer in Glacier national park and had a time just over two hours. 204 to be exact. NBA comp. Is Jakob a taller guy who can play below the arc and plays good defense, but bricks every three he shoots because I never learned how to shoot from range onto my question. My fiance and I live in a northern midwest suburb. Fond du Lac. I don't know. We're getting married in August of this year in Lake Tahoe. I'm from northern California and Lake Tahoe is where we got engaged. I've decided that for my bachelor party I'd like my groomsmen and I to fly in the week of my wedding and have a two day bachelor party. Our wedding is on a Friday, so ideally I'd have everyone get in on Sunday night. Dude, what are you fucking nuts? All right, so the wedding's Friday. He wants everyone in the party to show up Sunday night. Monday and Tuesday we do the bachelor party. Then they'd have Wednesday, Thursday to themselves spend with their wives girlfriends before the wedding. The reason I thought to do this was all but one of my groomsmen live in the Midwest. Traveling to the wedding is already going to cost them some money. So a separate trip seemed excessive to me. Rather than extending their trip to Tahoe. Tahoe is also, in my opinion, a great spot for a bachelor party with lots of golf options, lake activities, casinos, hiking, etc. My question is, am I asking too much of them? As my groomsmen gift, I plan on covering the lodging for them to ease the price burden. A majority are graduated from college and have jobs, but a full works with PTO may be difficult for some. I've thought about what I want my bachelor party to be for over two years, and the idea of a lake weekend locally doesn't hold the same celebratory nature to it as this would. Would love your advice, guys.

[Cerutti]

This is just too close. This is too. I mean, there's a bunch of things that could go wrong. But also you're saying everyone should go. That means like what? So the. The wives and girlfriends just go sit in hotel rooms by themselves while you guys are like somewhere about town and then you come back and then you also, you know, it's just. I think it's just great to space these things out. It's just like a. This is just a safety. It's like a safety on a gun.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Just.

[Brian Windhorst]

Let's just.

[Cerutti]

Let's space it out.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Is it? I feel like a safety on a gun. That's a. It's an interesting analogy.

[Cerutti]

Oh, it's good to have. You should have this spaced out.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Well, yes, it is good to have, but I don't. The analogy, the downside doesn't feel as dangerous. Anyway, moving on from the analogy.

[Cerutti]

Semantics, I guess.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, I'm hammering you now after. Sorry.

[Cerutti]

Why don't you go coughing?

[Kyle]

Yikes.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I don't want to.

[Kyle]

Sick burn. Sick burn this.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Why don't you go cough again? Maybe one of the weirdest comebacks ever.

[Kyle]

It's not great. It's not strong. I will not.

[Ryan Ruocco]

You know, I need that sometimes, you know, because I was telling my movie Thai coach, I go, when you crack me and I get mad at myself, crack me again. Don't stop cracking me because I get mad. Because the whole thing, I feel like because of the age and maybe status or whatever, like, you know, I'm glad. I think we actually hit a place today with the show where we're going to get even better because Kyle just said you essentially, and we need a little bit. I need a little bit more of that. So thank you, Kyle.

[Cerutti]

You're welcome. You're absolutely welcome.

[Kyle]

Well, back to the email. Wasn't this also the issue in the Hangover, right, Is that, like, stuff could go wrong, like what if you. What if somebody, like, gets injured? I like, you don't like, things happen on bastard parties. Like, I'm not saying you're gonna get lost.

[Cerutti]

Ricochet.

[Kyle]

Like, you never know.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Stiller. And along came Polly right now.

[Kyle]

What's going on? I don't know. I'm just. I'm just throwing things out. Like, I also don't know that as a group, if I was a groomsman, like, would I want. I'd want to do, like, the separate thing. I want something else to look forward to, to go to, you know, Even if it's like a Midwest lake thing like he was talking about, that's like three months before that. Then you get two separate, kind of like, boys weekends. Like, the wedding's one weekend, the trip is another. I don't know. I feel like this. Having it all together, while it could be just like one kind of fun bash, there's way more things that can go wrong.

[Ryan Ruocco]

And you're.

[Kyle]

It's. It's. I'd rather have the two separate things and hang out with my buddies two separate times. So, again, it's your call. Maybe your buddies feel differently, but I feel like there's stuff that can go wrong early on that could impact the wedding because it's so soon and you're not really doubling up with your buddies.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah.

[Cerutti]

This might not even be a big deal if he. I don't know how much this like, reasoning is that it's like asking them to take two separate trips is a lot. Or if he would just be like, I'd like it to be this way. Like, I wonder if he's using that as a reason or if, you know, those guys wouldn't care. Like, actually, yeah, I don't care if we do something in. In May instead of do it all at a week in August.

[Ryan Ruocco]

So, yeah, I'm really. My focus here isn't like, we're in a 28's a little different than being north of 30. North of 30, I'd say this is impossible with guys with families and everything. But, like, you're asking basically. I don't know how big the party is. Let's say it's five or six guys. You're asking those five or six guys to take a week off. Right. You've already got kind of this weird Friday wedding, which, you know, is not always the most convenient thing for everyone else on the guest list. It's great for you.

[Cerutti]

Knocks a couple grand off the price, usually.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah. Sunday, though, like, you guys have a Tuesday afternoon venue.

[Kyle]

What's that looking like in a matinee?

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, you got the Ritz on Central Park. Here you go, buddy. You're asking a lot of people to move some stuff around. And it's not just like, I know how you're framing it and I don't even necessarily think it's a bad idea. So I'm not anti the idea, I'm not anti the email or I'm not really worried about the safety part of this. I just think to, to be sitting here saying you're going to get all these other people coordinate, not just the long weekend that they're already doing, to do it all at the same time. And then one girlfriend, wife is going to be pissed at one of these guys. Okay. And they're not going to be like, hey, you, we're going to do the bachelor party thing Sunday to Tuesday night. And then you roll in Wednesday when I'm on a. Coming off a 48 hour bender, y' all try and cuddle with me. Yeah.

[Kyle]

And then like her parents, it's going

[Ryan Ruocco]

to be all right.

[Kyle]

You know, like, you mean for the first time potentially like this. This just has disaster written all over it.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I don't even care about the disaster part, which is totally fair. But there's just like, what are you going to do? Have the wives and girlfriends lay out like some would. Some women listening to this would go, yeah, that's sick. Like, you guys go do the golf thing and get banged up and we're going to drink wine and go to the pool and spa day, the whole thing. There's just too many moving parts for. I'd be very surprised if any friend group. There are some, but it's very rare to be able to pull this kind of thing off knowing that the girls and wife and the girlfriends and wives, none of them are going to want to fly by themselves later on in the week. That's usually my experience. Yeah, I'm going to my friend's wedding, I'm going to Tahoe and then I booked you on the Southwest on Wednesday. So yeah, we'll see you there.

[Kyle]

The only thing worse than that is, is like the dual bachelor bachelorette party

[Cerutti]

in one of those. Yeah, we've covered that. We're not.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Yeah, that's legal.

[Kyle]

And it doesn't sound like that's happening. So. Yeah, so she's having like her set by likely her separate bachelorette party another time. Yeah, normal. Doing this normal thing.

[Cerutti]

I'll just say this. I mean, you guys remember what happened with mine and I don't think. I don't think that this is going to be anything like that, but like we had dudes smacking each other's. The New York City guys were like, who are these fucking people?

[Kyle]

Right?

[Cerutti]

If we had like five games in New York. Yeah. If we had like five days in between, that reference was like, you know, all right, let's all get together. I think that cooldown period was awesome. But you know, if not. Not to say that any of that stuff would happen, but I'm just. It's a bachelor party, whatever. And so I think that's. That cooldown period is great for a number of reasons.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Okay. Microsoft Copilot the AI assistant that actually helps you get stuff done. Copilot works across Microsoft 365 Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook. Turning chaos into productivity. Need a presentation? Copilot builds it. Need a summary of a meeting? You definitely zoned out in. Copilot's got you. It can analyze data, rewrite emails, brainstorm ideas, and even help you sound like you know what you're talking about, which frankly is a miracle. So stop pretending you're going to circle back or touch base or whatever corporate phrase you've been faking. Let Copilot do the heavy lifting. You just take the credit. Microsoft Copilot Work smarter, Work faster. Work like someone who actually reads the instructions. This one has an incredible title. Sister in Law Selling Baby gifts on Facebook 510170 more of a gym itest guy than gym stats guy. So no numbers for you, but daily dumbbell circuits are serving me pretty well. I like that. Don't pull up my win shares per 48. Just take a look. Does it go in play JV basketball in rural Canada so not much basketball comp either. I'm a 3 and D specialist with long 2 range and slow feet, so whoever that may be. I'm writing the alliance today to ask for some advice on how to deal with some family drama. Background. My wife and I just turned 42 boys 810 years old. Congratulations. My brother and his wife are 5 years our junior, have 2 kids as well, 4 year old boy and an 18 month old girl. We all live in the same city where we grew up. My brother and I are very close. Our wives are friendly but have very different personalities. My wife is more outgoing and direct. My sister in law is introverted and avoids conflict. We make a concerted effort to spend time together so the cousins get to know each other and hang out as a family at least monthly. Both families have good middle class plus incomes and are financially Secure. Now for the situation I need help with. Great prologue, man. Great stuff. I don't need to tell Ceruti that kids are a big upfront investment. Car seats, strollers, cribs, clothes, all sorts of toys. He doesn't need to tell you that. Right Seri?

[Kyle]

No.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Okay, that's going to run you at least a few thousand dollars before the baby's even born. However, most of this paraphernalia goes from essential to everyday life to useless clutter after the first couple of years of the kid's life. When my nephew was born, it was a perfect time where my boys had grown out of the baby stage and we're more than happy to give a lot of our old stuff to my brother. They were happy to receive it. It eased the financial burden on them, helped free up the space in our house, and also helped connect the families just a little bit. It's cool to see our niece and nephew wearing the same clothes and enjoying the same toys our kids did. As the families have grown, this has continued with toddler toys, sports equipment, et cetera. Sounds like a win win all around, right? Well, it was until recently when my wife noticed some very familiar items up for sale on Facebook Marketplace. Turns out our niece has started to age out of the baby stage. My sister in law has put some clothes, a highchair and some other items we've given them for sale. This rattled my wife as these were gifts and while we know that we no longer have any right to tell them what to do with the items, it feels wrong for them to profit from them. Would be fine if they donated them to some other friends expecting a family or to Goodwill or at least asked us if it'd be okay if they started selling it online, but it doesn't appear that any of that was considered. To make matters worse, my wife's sister's expecting her first child in June. It would be nice if we could have the option to offer her some of the hand me downs. This problem isn't going away either as our niece will soon be growing out of bigger ticket items, strollers and car seats, and I'd hope that those would be treated differently. But who knows at this point it sucks because this makes us less inclined to continue to offer them items as our kids grow up. For example, my youngest is growing out of his first set of golf clubs. They are decidedly not blades. Smart. That was funny. That was funny. I went to the range the other day, I used a couple different eight irons, hit the blade the best out of all the I don't know. I don't know what to do. Maybe I'm a blades guy. Maybe that's what just gifted. Yeah, yeah, just fucking. He's special, this one over here. All right, we'd love to invite them over to share in a single course of light and give them to my nephew, but I don't really want to see them online for $50 in two years. How should we approach this? Are we being too possessive and should we just let it go and charge it to the game or are they being kind of shitty and should we confront them about it? My default would normally be Kyle's. Go to advice and making a few jokes about it as to not make it a big deal, but at the same time let them know that we noticed. However, as mentioned earlier, my sister in law is not really confrontational. My sister in law is really non confrontational and my wife isn't afraid of conflict. So I'm not sure either of them would be able to navigate the subtleties required in that situation and it may make things worse.

[Cerutti]

Well, the tough thing is, right, I mean, at one point, like what you wanted to do, you want them to offer it back to you so you could store it in your garage. You know, you don't want that. I think the thing that they, that you could use to broach this, it's like, hey, you know, been keeping up with you on Facebook lately. There's. Who is this person? They said her sister in law or somebody in the family is expecting. And they're like, I was hoping.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Right, the wife's sister.

[Cerutti]

Yeah, I was like, I was actually hoping we could maybe, you know, cycle this stuff around. Like that's how, that's how we grew up. And I was hoping that we could do the same thing. You know, I'm just.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Just what?

[Cerutti]

Like, I don't care that you're doing this. I don't find it ugly. I was just hoping, you know, I was just in passing and, and was saying that, oh, wait, we. My sister actually has stuff that, that maybe could go to you. I know they're not using it. There's a way to do that out of like an earnest thing instead of like, hey, I've been.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Been watching what you've been up to.

[Kyle]

Right, right. The. The wife's sister is the built in get out of jail free card here. Because you can kind of bring that, like if you didn't have somebody else to give it to. It's like, hey, yeah, like, what do you want me to just give it back? To you. And it's going to sit in your.

[Cerutti]

You don't want that shit in your garage.

[Kyle]

It creates like a weird dynamic. Yeah, somebody. I mean, we, we got a bunch of stuff from aunts, uncles, cousins, and then my, My sister's pregnant, so we're gonna give her a bunch of stuff. I mean, I get anxiety. I'm sitting in a playroom right now, not in my usual space because we got some work getting done on the house, but there's just. There's shit everywhere and it, it gives me incredible anxiety. So, like, I, I understand, like, the idea of getting that stuff out of there and getting the clutter out, but I'd be bummed. Like, I'm looking at this like, kind of like dollhouse thing over here. If, like, I gave that to my sister and she just sold on Facebook. Marketplace in three years. Yeah, like, I'd probably say something.

[Brian Windhorst]

Three years.

[Kyle]

It's like, not three years. Small thing. Yeah, like, you know, like the small. Like the clothes. Like some of the clothes that doesn't matter. Like golf clubs. I. Yeah, like that. I would, I would be like, hey, I'm not giving this to you if you're just going to give it to, you know, if you're going to sell it for your own profit in two years. But I think, I think the sister thing is the built in excuse. You bring her up and you say, hey, can we, can we get some of the stuff back that we can use? And then they'll probably think twice about putting on Facebook because they know maybe they're just like, kind of oblivious. They don't realize.

[Cerutti]

Switch over to Craigslist stuff that's on there.

[Kyle]

Yeah, maybe they switch platforms. Who knows? But I think that's the built in excuse there. And if they shouldn't really get that. Offended by. I wouldn't be offended by that. I also wouldn't sell stuff on somebody else's stuff on Facebook.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Marketplace. Yeah, I mean, imagine if, like, you're playing this out. They're in the kitchen and you're in the kitchen. All right. Separately.

[Cerutti]

Oh, I like this.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Right? And so they're going, you gave us the stuff. Like, this is you not being in the conversation. Two separate houses. Imagine the conversation because you're sitting there with your wife being like, they're selling our shit. Well, it's not your shit anymore. It doesn't look good. It's not a good look. I would be annoyed if I were your wife. I'd be annoyed if I were you. But when they're in their House say you even brought this up. They're parking the car, they're walking through the kitchen, and your brother's wife is going, they gave us this stuff. What am I supposed to do? So I'm just telling you, tread lightly on this one. I've seen we're talking about Game of Thrones. Like, hill tribes have been separated over less. And this is. This can be, like, really family fracturing.

[Kyle]

Yeah, but I'll push back. Ryan, though. Like, this is. I mean, I don't know. I grew up in Italian household. Like, everyone was in each other's all the time, right? And we shared stuff, and that's how. And it's less like that now, I think. It's certainly a generational thing, but this is just like. This is a.

[Ryan Ruocco]

This is how you married outside your brakes. Your wife's not Italian, right?

[Kyle]

She is not Italian. My mom's only 50% Italian. That was a conversation, you know, back in the day, you know, things worked out okay. I think they actually ended up liking her more than some of the other ones, but it's okay. But. But this is how the family dynamic works, though. Like, people give other people stuff that then just keeps. The cycle keeps going until that thing basically is like. Like to turn to dust or it's broken.

[Cerutti]

Grandpa can't fix it anymore.

[Kyle]

Get rid of these things for your own profit, especially if you didn't buy it. So I. I have to gently push back on that. Like that. That to me. And maybe that's an Italian thing. It probably is not, but that's how at least it works in our family.

[Cerutti]

And I'm not saying it's a hole in this guy's story, but he said, like, you know, if it was to Goodwill, it's one thing. It's like, why? Because they don't get anything out of it. Like, if you're donating it, it's better. I mean, the whole thing is just getting rid of it, and they're not taking stuff to then turn around and sell it. You know what I mean? They're using it until it's pushed up against the wall, and it's stressing them out, not unlike Ceruti here. So I think if you ended up actually getting into how you feel about it, remember that you're saying it's actually okay if they get rid of this shit. Oh, some ways okay, and some ways aren't okay. I know why it feels a little gross, but when you say it out loud, Judge Judy would shut this down. I hate to bring her back into this. But she'd be like, once it's out of your possession, you really should stop worrying about it so much.

[Kyle]

Yeah. By the letter of the law. That is true. But that's not how. Like, it's not the letter of the

[Cerutti]

law, but it's like, if you want it because you want them to give it to someone else, I can understand that. Especially if you have someone else in mind. But if you're just saying, like, I don't want to give them this because I know for a couple years they're not going to want to store it, just like, I don't want to store it. I mean, that's. You got to lighten up a little bit about that.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I think. I just think it's a lot to ask somebody to go, hey, she's. My wife's having. You know, my wife's sister's having a kid. So all the stuff that we gave you, can you give some of it back? Or you could just. Nice. Rudy.

[Cerutti]

You could also just say, I'm wondering if you have that. You don't have to say, I saw that you've been selling this. You could just be like, I'm wondering what you have. You know, do you have some of those. Those baby books or the stuff with the, like, the sensory stuff turns into.

[Ryan Ruocco]

If you're the other part of their going, so you didn't give me. You're loaning this. All of this stuff is kind of loan to me.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Ruocco]

All right.

[Kyle]

It's like, you're right.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Your way is likely the right way. It's just not the way most people work. And even if the brother agrees with his brother, he can't agree with his brother. He can't be like, you know, they made a good point. You are selling their stuff. He can't say that to his wife.

[Kyle]

Like, our. My. My cousin gave us her bassinet. It's not cheap. We had two kids. We're done. We gave it back. Or it's going to my sister. Like, this isn't like a. Hey, like, this is ours now. I never looked at that as our property. Now, there are certain things. I guess that's a bigger ticket item.

[Ryan Ruocco]

There are certain lower grades.

[Kyle]

Okay, it's probably not, but, like, the big thing.

[Ryan Ruocco]

You sold it. If you sold it, how would that go over in your family?

[Kyle]

I think she would be. I don't think she'd care, but I would care.

[Cerutti]

And if your parents found out, they might. Through the grapevine.

[Kyle]

I think it's just rude.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Might have a Ned Stark on our hands over here.

[Kyle]

I just think that's rude. Especially if you know that there's gonna be other people. Not even, hey, I'm with you.

[Ryan Ruocco]

I think it's rude too, kinda, you know, But I don't think it's like egregious what they're necessarily doing. I'm just talking like, I've seen this happen over some stupid little thing with a family. It blows up the argument and next thing you know, the cousins aren't hanging out anymore. I've seen it. Is that worth it?

[Cerutti]

No, that would depend on the approach. It would depend on the approach. I think if it's not like, hey, I want some of that stuff back. You're like, oh, you know, I was just thinking, I was wondering if you had any of those like, you know, baby books that your kids are too big for. I was wondering if you still are those in the garage somewhere, you know, and if they say no, then it's no. If it maybe sparks something in her head like, hey, before I put the next round of shit, whatever. But I think the non confrontational way, which is going to be tough because this guy's wife, wife is like ready

[Ryan Ruocco]

to go at it.

[Cerutti]

Sounds like she's up for a good conversation.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Right. But remember, some of the stuff's already been sold. Yes. Okay.

[Cerutti]

You don't have to let them know, you know that.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Just turn the faucet off if that makes you feel a little bit better about that.

[Cerutti]

Shut down the pipeline.

[Ryan Ruocco]

This means it's going to be like 10 years with these golf clubs that you're not giving to the other kid, that you're waiting on this new kid who hasn't been born yet. So those are going to be in your garage for a while, but maybe you cut off the faucet and if they make a comment of like, oh, hey, you know, you're doing it, it's like, well, maybe the brother says to the brothers, like, look, I just got to tell you, like, when your wife started selling some of the stuff and then her sister was having a kid, it wasn't the. Her favorite thing that's ever happened. And maybe you and your brother have that kind of relationship. You work it out or swear each other to secrecy. Yeah. Labat's blue in the garage. And you both realize, like, I don't want to do this and like, I don't want to do it either. And it's been addressed and the stuff's already been sold. So like, I don't know, I just think it's a lot I serie I think your version of like what is possible is the ideal one. I unfortunately, I think I think that's rare.

[Cerutti]

I liked your labats blue thing for Canada there.

[Ryan Ruocco]

That was good. Did you? Yeah.

[Cerutti]

I was like, wait, is this Canadian email?

[Ryan Ruocco]

It is nice. It is. So Rudy, are you mad now?

[Kyle]

No, I'm not mad at all. I mean I'm irked on this person's behalf because again, I just think it's rude but is it going to ruin my relationship with my family? No. But I don't know. When you buy those big ticket items I feel like that's. You didn't buy it. I don't think it's your right to sell it.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Pushback Thursday. I like it.

[Kyle]

Yeah.

[Ryan Ruocco]

Take that new show concept. Thanks to Tom. Thanks to Kevin. Thanks to Sri. Thanks to Kyle. Please subscribe to the Rymer Slow Show Barstool Sports. Sa.