← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
Fred Warner on Underrated Purdy, His Toughest Opponent & Favorite AFC Contender + NBA Christmas Preview w/ PJ Carlesimo
02:18:52
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey barstool listeners. You can find every episode of the Ryan Roso show on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.
- [00:09]
Fred Warner
Golf season is in full swing and.
- [00:11]
PJ Carlissimo
Getting out there to work on your.
- [00:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Game is bound to make any day even better. And if you're looking to improve your drive, Chevy Equinox EV is the smartest choice you can make. Bold athletic styling, a commanding presence, award winning tech, an impressive range, all with an affordable msrp. Chevy Equinox EV will put a smile on your face no matter how your scorecard shakes out. The Ryan Rosillo show presented by DraftKings Loaded for you again today. A lot of NFL with Fred Warner. What he thought of the Seattle LA result, his Niners win, Philip Rivers return and also he gives us a great answer on who do you tackle really hard that never complains? That loves it? He has a good answer for us on that one. P.J. carlissimo we're talking hoops. How do you stop the Thunder? Some of the things that we saw from the Spurs Thunder matchups that we could look forward to this next coming week, we go deep on a few different things on staggering players and then my quest to define the difference in the truce, I guess the different truce of different generations of the NBA. We have a Chalamet update. So we didn't even get the life advice until like 15 minutes of screwing around. So a very, very big pod for you right in front of Christmas. It's the most wonderful time of the year and DraftKings is making it even better. Yep, it's SGP Xmas baby. The season of extra DraftKings sportsbook is handing out holiday cheer like Santa with a parlay slip. And you're gonna want to get in on this. From December 22nd through the 25th, DraftKings is giving you a brand new extra generous offer every single day. That's right. Four straight days of promos. So you your NBA and NFL parlays. You wake up, you check the app. Boom. A fresh gift from DraftKings waiting for you. No wrapping paper, no batteries required. Just straight up SGPX Magic Slayer parlays this holiday season. NBA, NFL, whatever your game is, DraftKings is making sure your bankroll jingles all the way. So celebrate SGP Xmas with DraftKings. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app with Code Ryan R Y E N, opt in and unwrap your daily extra offer from December 22nd to the 25th. That's code Ryan R Y E N in partnership with DraftKings Sportsbook. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Pass through per wager. Tax may apply in Illinois 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by Boyden, Ontario. Restrictions apply. 1 NFL or NBA SGPX profit boost per day per customer bet Iterations criteria profit boost and max bet vary. Tokens are single use and expire at the end of the final game each day. When offered terms@sportsbook.draftkings.com promos he's going to join us throughout the season, as we told you so. Visit number two with Fred Warner from the San Francisco 49ers and also the host of Real Ones the league. Make sure you check out the episodes. The Derwin James interview is awesome. The Alex Smith one just went up. So if you're a fan of just great interviews, you don't have to be. If you're a fan of Fred, you're going to like it. But I really enjoyed him the last couple weeks and digging through everything. So it's good to see you, man. How are you, man?
- [03:37]
Fred Warner
I'm great, you know, I'm great. That Monday night, the Niners on top baby billing great.
- [03:44]
Ryan Rosillo
So yeah, yeah, you do the resume here. They're the 5C, but they're 11 and 4. You know, there's still a lot of things in play. Yeah. So they get the money nighter against the Colts. I can't wait to ask you about Philip Rivers. But first and foremost, let's start with your guys. Like what did you see from the team and getting this done on the road.
- [04:01]
Fred Warner
Yeah, man. I mean it's always unique when you have to go on the road for these night games on the east coast. Because when you play a night game here on the west coast, it's a five o' clock start time.
- [04:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Right.
- [04:11]
Fred Warner
It's, it's, I mean, when you're later in the season that the time has changed, it's dark outside, so it's late, five o' clock starts. You go on the east coast, they start their, their night games at 8pm so it's like, holy smokes, you're sitting at the hotel all day long just to get ready for this game. And you finally get on the bus at like 5pm to go to an 8pm game. So it's just a long day. So you always kind of wonder, like, are the guys really going to be firing from the jump or is it going to take them a little bit because they're a little groggy, maybe from a long day. But to see the way that our offense came out and was hitting on all cylinders, I mean, I think that was Brock Purdy's best game of. Of his career thus far. Like, he's a. He's had outstanding performances since he's been here with us, but that game showed just how. How poise he is, how he's able to dissect defenses, deliver the football on any point of the field, rolling out to his right, to his left, delivering the football, throwing like, finishing with six, not three. It was just unbelievable. And I think he was playing sick, too. Like, you. You see it on the, on the, on the. The broadcast on from the tv. You see his nose is all red, man, because he's probably over there sneezing all game. But the guy is a complete baller. Best in the game, in my opinion, of course. And yeah, man, I mean, we just. We just deadly out there on. On offense and defensively, it was. It was good to see us take the ball away on special teams. My guy, Jair Brown coming through with.
- [05:32]
Ryan Rosillo
The, the Frey Warner punch.
- [05:34]
Fred Warner
Punch out, man. You know, we were. We were laughing about it in the locker room just now because I told him, I'm like. He told me. He's like, bro, I specifically remember you telling me, elbow above the wrist. Because if you want that, you want that right angle, so when you're going through, it's like you got that little pocket in there for that ball to come out. So I guess he remembered a little something that Freddie told him, right? So he goes in there, he punches the ball out on kickoff. My boy, D. Winners, man. Just shout out to D. Winners. Finally gets himself a pick. And it's a pick six to the house to ice the game. Unbelievable. You know, we were going into the game where everybody's saying that our run defense wasn't any good. Their run game was the best in the league. And we hold them to 20 carries for what, 50, 60 yards. Like, it's unbelievable. So, yeah, old Philip Rivers, man, was still out there hucking that thing, like, trying to just deliver that pill. It looks like. It looks like he's over there, man, just got that food on the platter and just is hucking it out there, man. But he's still doing it. And it's super impressive because I don't think people understand what it takes to really step out there, because this is. This is as violent a game as it gets. You see, obviously what can happen in terms of guys getting hurt on any given place. So the fact that he came out of retirement after five years not doing it, it's still throwing touchdowns, fired up, you know, they're showing him on the. On the broadcast, just fiery. A fiery cat, man.
- [06:54]
Ryan Rosillo
You.
- [06:54]
Fred Warner
You can get behind that any day. So, all in all, man, fantastic win for the Niners. A lot of. Lot of great ball ahead of us. And I'm excited, man. It's a great time to be a.
- [07:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Fan of the game, the Rivers thing, it's amazing that he could look like. When you would see the shots of him in the sideline in his uniform, and maybe it wasn't the best uniform for an older guy, I would just have these moments watching him be like, I can't believe this is happening. I can't believe this guy is out there. And then all you have to do is get knocked around a little bit, and you're just a football player, you're in it, and he's chirping. And then there'd be a throw. Or I'm like, all right, well, look, it's always kind of been this weird delivery, and then there'll be a throw that there was one to the right where it was like, oh, he didn't get enough on that. And I'm like, all right, well, is that because he's 45, or is that because he just missed a throw like anybody else would? But I. I do wonder if there's a bigger thing on display here. Now, granted his relationship with that coaching staff and knowing the offense like this wasn't like they just said, hey, who's 45 that we can have playing games right now? So as this is, there's. There's at least we know when he's back there, he's going to understand exactly what we're going to do. And I'll forever, as we get to know each other, forever, be fascinated, challenged, clueless, definitive. Like any. Any way I could describe my feelings on quarterbacks? Or I'm like, I think this guy's going to be good, and then he's terrible. And then a guy who I think is going to be terrible turns out to be terrific. But is there something that we're realizing if Philip Rivers is coming into a game and at least being competitive, where the knowledge is so much more important than any of the physical stuff. And that there's. There's just a development gap between what we ask of the NFL quarterback at the beginning of his career and what they're actually ready to handle every Sunday.
- [08:38]
Fred Warner
Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's a super interesting topic that I know we've heard Tom Brady talk about it. Right. He talks about guys not being as developed coming into the league because of the college game kind of changing. So they're unable to really dissect and read defenses as early on in their career. So then they have to learn that part of the game as they're transitioning to playing it at the highest level with all the speed and everything of that, that nature. I talked with Alex Smith about it on, on my podcast. He said that he thinks that this is the best the quarterback position has ever been in the entire NFL because he just feels like just the level of athlete that's back there, guys just throwing that, throwing the pill around the field. And he feels like this is the best it's ever been in his opinion. Obviously his opinion means more than my opinion because I never played the position, but yeah, I think with with Philip, it does. It shows crystal clear. Especially Monday night where everybody's tuned in. It's a, it's a night game, prime time, and you see him get up to the line of scrimmage and they're sending motions.
- [09:38]
Cerutti
All right.
- [09:38]
Fred Warner
Yeah, yeah, he's kind of just like, kind of roaming around, like, just like, just so like nonchalant about it. He just kind of like, hey, let's go. I'm like, okay, like, and there's so much time on the play clock because he's just like, he's obviously that efficient early in the, in the, in the down to be able to just be like, okay, hey, let's check to this. Boom, boom, boom. And I'm just going to hook it right here, like in this little 10 yard pocket. And it's just going to be a first down completion. We're going to move the chains, we're going to continue the drive. And it's like, did he do something fantastic with his feet, with his arm, with any like. No, it was because he was able to read, read and dissect the defense to deliver the ball in the place that it needed to be delivered. And at the end of the day, you want to just get as high percentage chance throws on any given drive to get yourself in position to score a touchdown. Right. Or to just put points on the board. And so when you have a guy that can put you in that position to stay ahead of the sticks because you see where the issues arise, especially in this game. It was when they get behind the sticks where you're. You get a TFL or you get an incomplete pass, you're in second and 10, you're in third and 10. It's like, well, there's not a whole lot of plays in your playbook repertoire to say, hey, we're going to go get a first down on. On third and ten versus no, we're in third and four or. Or less. So, I mean, the combination of them not unable to get the run game going now puts a lot of.
- [10:53]
Ryan Rosillo
And the def.
- [10:54]
Fred Warner
Their. Their defense not being able to start stop our offense puts a lot of pressure on Phil to be exactly right on every single play that he's out there where he has to check it correctly, he has to deliver the throw perfectly, and it all works in unison. But if you don't have a guy at that position who understands what's going on, you're going to be constantly like, oh, let's hope that he makes a play with his legs, or let's hope that it just works out instead of actually, like, meticulously working your way down the field or defense feels like, golly, we can't do anything right. This dude just knows exactly what we're doing. It's like, it's just deflating for a defense when you have a guy like that who knows what you're doing, because it's like, oh, should we do we need to start doing something different? Because he knows what we're doing.
- [11:35]
Ryan Rosillo
So how different is it? How different is it? Like when you couple series and you're just. You're with the defense, you're like, this guy's lost. You're talking about a quarterback.
- [11:43]
Fred Warner
Yeah, there's.
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Ryan Rosillo
I'm sure there's younger quarterbacks, quarterbacks that are.
- [11:45]
Fred Warner
Oh, yeah.
- [11:46]
Ryan Rosillo
How different is that?
- [11:47]
Fred Warner
Yeah, no, I've. I've had experiences. You know, we went into, what was it, 20, 23. It was after our bye week. We had just lost three straights, so our backs are against the wall. We're going. Coming out of the buy. We got to go on the road against a hot Jacksonville Jaguars team who had won a ton of games up to that point. And, you know, Trevor Lawrence, we had seen on tape where, you know, they. He wanted it to look assert, like, for a quarterback, you're going to either see too high, you're going to see single high, you're gonna Be okay. I know where the ball's supposed to go in my progression based off the safeties and what. And what the dbs are presenting me. Right. So we're like, okay, if we can muddy the picture up for him pre snap and then play something else, let's see how that affects him.
- [12:31]
Ryan Rosillo
And we went into the game and.
- [12:32]
Fred Warner
We'Re like, all right, we're gonna start single high, and then we're gonna switch to two high post snap. And you just saw him go from his first read. Oh, it's not there. Okay, boom. Let me look at the rush. He's obviously progressed a ton since then. As much. Much more developed in being able to read disguises and understanding. Understanding. Understanding scheme as a quarterback and his system and with Liam Cohen. But at the time, we knew we had him because it was like you could tell. Just the panic set in within a quarterback, a young quarterback who's unable to understand what's going on from a disguise standpoint of like, okay, boom. Like, now the timer in my head is quicker because as soon as he doesn't see his first read, my. My cleats are on the ground. I'm ball out breaking to try to go pick something off or get ready for when he's starting to run with the. With the ball or check the ball down.
- [13:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Because, like, on the other side of it, maybe if we'd had like, five shows together. I push back a little bit on you saying Brock's the best quarterback in the NFL, but I. I've realized very quickly here, you're the best teammate in the league. Not only the best linebacker.
- [13:29]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [13:31]
Ryan Rosillo
But, you know, with Shanahan, for. For us casual viewers, like, I just expect there's a floor that's so much higher for every quarterback because of what Kyle's track record has been. I mean, this goes back to, like, man, they like Aaroppolo that much. And then I think I kind of figured out with Garoppolo, like, there were. It felt like there were some maybe limitations out in the field and that the offense could be a little predictable. But then you'd have, like, again, I don't know how many of these guys you were there for, but, like, Nick Mullins has a nice little run. It was like C.J. had a run, and like, Darnold comes in and it was like, I kind of can't wait to see what happens with Darnold. And for everybody, that's like, how does the league miss out on a Purdy? And if you go back and watch him in college and like I watch a lot of college ball, you'd be like, hey, this looks like a smart guy who's undersized and yeah, this is exactly where this guy always goes when he's drafted. And I would say, even physically, some of the stuff that we really value and contend to overvalue, it's like, hey, I don't care how big your arm is, if you can't get to a point of identifying some stuff and just being a decision maker, that's not going to freak out or have some sort of pocket awareness that Brock feels like he checks a lot of the boxes that are harder to evaluate on Saturday. Yeah. So, you know, I think some people look at his success and go, oh, I wonder what he would be without Shanahan. But it seems like you would would say, no, no, no. Like, was there a moment with Brock where you're like, okay, this is actually different. Like we, we have a chance here to be even more dynamic in the passing game despite everybody giving the head coach all the credit.
- [14:52]
Fred Warner
No, I mean, it was his, the moment he stepped in to being the starter. When Jimmy went down in 2022, it was 2022, 2023, 2022. He came in in that Miami Dolphins game when Jimmy went down and made some throws in that game. Because of course, when you get a rookie quarterback in, what is, what does the defensive coordinator do on opposite side? He's like, man, let's send the house at him. Let's see if he can really make a throw or read a defense on the fly versus just hold onto it, crumble and then take a sack. He's delivering throws that a 10 year veteran would make in terms of being able to process at the highest level and understand where that ball needs to go and delivering it in, in the rhythm, in the timing that needs to be delivered. I think there's baseline. There's like for a quarterback, starting quarterback in this league who wants to be, you know, a actually great player in this league. There's baselines in terms of athletic ability, arm strength, you know, if you're going to be shorter in stature, like there obviously these baselines kind of, you, you, they bump up a little bit, like they got to be a little bit better. And I think people, they don't, they don't understand with Purdy, like the savviness, the quickness, the quick burst that he has to be able to escape and roll out and create with his legs. I think it's shocking when guys get on the field and they're actually playing him where it's like, oh, shoot, like, I didn't realize he was that twitchy. And I think he's joked around where he's like, yeah, I had a better 10, 10 yard split on the 40 than Christian and Debo at the combine. And I'm like, wait, is that true?
- [16:21]
Ryan Rosillo
And he's like, everybody lies about that.
- [16:23]
Fred Warner
Said that before. Like, I'm pretty sure that's a real thing. Like he had a good 10 yard split. Like, what does that mean? I don't know. But at the end of the day, like, he, he's got some twitchiness about him to then be like, okay, that's enough now. What's the, what's the thing that's the, the deal breaker? It's the processing ability upstairs to not like. Because the whole Kyle Shanahan argument, of course, Kyle is the best, of course in my mind to ever do it in terms of head coach and play caller. But at the end of the day, you can only put a quarterback in the right position or the right scheme. You know what, what am I trying to say? A quarterback, at the end of the day when bullets are flying and he's out there in a game, he's the one that gotta make it happen. He's the one that's gotta figure it out and be able to, to process, deliver the football, do it over and over and over and over and over again in the heat of battle of like. Of what, of what people are trying to attack him with. So you, the people who don't want to get party is due. Like, well, you just obviously don't understand the game.
- [17:22]
Ryan Rosillo
You don't understand how football works.
- [17:24]
Fred Warner
You don't know how the quarterback position is played. And you need to go watch film because you go and watch that Monday night tape just now, you can't tell me that that's, that's, that's music like, that's, that's beauty that at its, at its core right there. What he just did. What he, what he just did and performed on, on that. On a national stage.
- [17:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I just looked it up. McCaffrey's was a 1, 5, 2. Purdy's was a 15 5. So the ballpark. No, but he said it. You're right. He did say.
- [17:52]
Cerutti
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, he's.
- [17:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Listen, it was right there, you guys. There's no way anybody believed him when he first said that. The Debo one might be a stretch, but I don't know if I have an official number on this.
- [18:03]
Fred Warner
That 10 yard, man, that little 10 yard burst after that, it's like, okay, listen, you got what you got. You know, I'm riding that same ballpark. It's like I, I'll lean on the 10 yard when I'm, I'm, I'm gloating about my speed. And then once it gets to the 40, it's like, all right, listen, I'm, I'm not anything special compared to anybody else.
- [18:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. But I mean, there's an argument to be made that you'd rather be quicker than a 10 yard.
- [18:24]
Fred Warner
Oh, absolutely. And most positions on the field in an NFL game, you, yeah, you, it's, it's a 10 yard burst. The only time you're not in a 10 yard burst for my position is if you're burnt on something or you're, you got beat and you got a whole, you got a whole tail to go run somebody down.
- [18:40]
Ryan Rosillo
You might have the best. Well, look, there's going to be some corners that are faster than you, but I think one of my favorite things about you is there maybe you're 20 to 30. Oh, shit. I got to get out on this guy. Speed is faster than everybody else. Where the quarterback's like, I got him, I got him.
- [18:57]
Fred Warner
My. On every single play, I run harder than the guy who runs the 4, 4, 4, 3. The guys who 4 run 4, 4, 4, 3, they know they can kind of like coast and turn, pick and choose when to turn it on versus me. I'm the four six who's like, I'm running that four six every single play. And so I got to make sure my gas tank is where it need.
- [19:17]
Ryan Rosillo
To be to make sure I'm running.
- [19:18]
Fred Warner
That 46 every play.
- [19:20]
Ryan Rosillo
I gotta ask you about the Seattle Rams game because, you know, this is. If you're the Rams and I'm bringing this up because of the division and like, what is for you guys, so it makes sense. So I'm sure you're. I don't know where you were for the game. If you're texting with your boys, you're just going like, okay. Because I think a lot of people going to that game are like, based on the first matchup and Darnold's issues, they know what they need to do now they get that big lead. The Rams have gone into this 13 personnel thing, which I do think is really interesting and how a lot of people have talked about it because it's like we're giving you a look that actually is not what we want to do. But yet the running backs are stepping up and there's no devonte. So then you're like, all right, well, how often are they going to be going out of two wide receiver sets, the entire thing. But I think before we get into some of the design stuff that's happening here with the Rams, when the Rams are leading that game, like the football sense made or the football world made sense to me at that point when it was that score, I'm like, you know, I think they're the best team in the league. They're going to be the one see, they're going to win the division. They blow that game. Yeah. What's the worst you've. I mean, I guess it might be the super bowl loss, but that's going to be the kind of loss where you're just like, how, like that's going to let this get away?
- [20:31]
Fred Warner
Like it was. Yeah, it was like we had this so wrapped up in a. In a present. How did we let that one go? And I think it honestly speaks to the fact that they fired their special teams coordinator after the game. You know what I'm saying? Like, that was a pivotal moment in the game where you have a guy, I think, did he fumble? Did he fumble the.
- [20:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
- [20:55]
Fred Warner
It was. They gave up a punt return touchdown to Seattle. Right. The. Rashid Shahid, he ran it.
- [21:01]
Ryan Rosillo
That was the first touchdown. Right, right.
- [21:03]
Fred Warner
That was their one. I remember when we were going into playing against them, that was their Achilles heel.
- [21:07]
Cerutti
They.
- [21:07]
Fred Warner
We talked about how we had an advantage against them in special teams because, you know, of course, people never talk about special teams, but it's. It's. That's the third part of the game. You got offense, you got defense, and you got teams. So, you know, I think those one or two plays, like, you talk about swings and momentum and. Yeah, I mean, Seattle had to have a lot of things go right in that game for them to even have a chance to win it. Like you talk about those two point conversions that they converted on. I've never seen in my entire life a team who the ball gets thrown behind the line of scrimmage, they blow the whistle, their running back picks it up in the end zone, they're lined up to kick the ball off, and then all of a sudden they're saying, hey, no, we reviewed it and it's actually a. It's actually a two point conversion. And so it's like, that was wild. And then you go on and they got to score the two point conversion to tie it up. And then a two point Conversion to win it in overtime. So, you know, a lot of things had to go go their way in that game and to, for them to win it. But all in all, the Rams, I know they're sick in there. They're sick to their stomach right now because they, they had full control of that game and they had full control over their destiny to, to win the one seed. And now they have to have some things go in their favor in order to even have that happen.
- [22:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Now they also had the missed field goal as they were going back and forth once the score was tied up.
- [22:16]
Fred Warner
That's what it was. He missed the field goal.
- [22:18]
Ryan Rosillo
I guess I just never, I don't know. I mean there, there'd be all 22 blocking stuff that somebody would have to explain to me to understand why it's the special teams coordinator's fault. On.
- [22:31]
Fred Warner
You can't just sit here and blame it on the special teams like you. The Rams had.
- [22:35]
Ryan Rosillo
That's something that we don't know with.
- [22:38]
Fred Warner
The football at the end of the game where it's like if you guys get a first down, you ice the game and this game is over. But they, they, I think they went three and out at the end of the game to give the, the Seahawks another chance to take the ball and go score. And then obviously they went for two to win it in overtime. So I mean, if you want to blame, you want to blame people, blame the offense for not icing it.
- [22:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, no, there was, I fully expected once it was the ridiculous two point thing. I'm like, okay, it's 30, 30 and guess what's going to happen. Stafford's going to go down the field. They're going to set up because everybody gets in the field goal range at the end of games. Now it's like automatic and everybody's kicking the hell out of the ball. So I was like, they're going to still end up winning this and everybody's going to kind of forget about this collapse and they'll be the one seed and on and on and on because I felt like they were the most complete team. It explain to me like I understand the numbers and I think most people listening understand 13 personnel where it's the one receiver. Well, it's like one three is the one back.
- [23:32]
Fred Warner
Yep.
- [23:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Three tight ends, which means one receiver. Yep. And as everybody's going to go into this and you notice some stuff with Stafford, McVeigh and the appreciation people have for McVay is that he'll figure it out, he'll evolve, he'll look like a completely different team. What does it mean for you when you're out there going, okay, this is. This thing they like doing. It's kind of taking the NFL world by storm here, but really, it feels like like they're trying to show us a personnel and then run out, run different stuff, as opposed to what this personnel would tell you they were doing.
- [24:02]
Fred Warner
Yeah, I mean, it's just unorthodox to what you're. What you're accustomed to seeing around the NFL. When you see teams getting to 13 personnel, that means they're getting all big people on the field. To do what? To run the football.
- [24:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Right.
- [24:13]
Fred Warner
Like, they want to get their big guys in there and say, hey, we're going to now muscle you into running this football, so on and so forth. But the thing that's unique with the Rams is they got personnel and they got obviously a guy in McVeigh who can dress it up in certain. In different ways to not only run the football effectively, but to now pass the football because he has trust in these tight ends that they've now acquired, like this guy Ferguson out of. Out of Oregon this year. You know, he may have not been a guy who was getting involved in the past game as much early on in the season, but now I'm seeing him get way more involved, where he's getting tons of ops.
- [24:46]
Ryan Rosillo
He's a freak. Yeah, he was a freaking cop.
- [24:49]
Fred Warner
That tells me that. That Stafford now has a ton of trust in this kid to. To be able to even just look his way and throwing the ball, because if he didn't, then he's like, man, I'm not. I'm not even gonna. I don't want to look his way because what if I don't trust that he's gonna run the right route if he's going to catch the ball, do these things. You know, I remember lining up against him on that Thursday night game, and it was. He was out at number one. We are man coverage, out as the number one receiver, and he ran a goalball on me, and usually I'm like, tight. He's not gonna run a goalball out here. He ran a goalball. If had Stafford looked that way, I'm pretty sure he would have caught that goalball. But I think it just goes to show you that the kid has talent. And now it's like developing that trust to then get him the ball more and more. And when you have that ability to throw the football on 13 personnel, it keeps the defense on their heels because now the defense is at a disadvantage because what are they going to do when you get 13 personnel on the field? You're going to go big guys on, on the field, you're going to bring in more linebackers, you might bring in more D linemen to try to do what? To stop the run. And then so now when they're passing the ball, they kind of got these mismatches because they have athletes at tight end to be able to expand the field. And they still of course, have one receiver on the field, which is usually Puka, who you're now getting him in a, in a one on one matchup probably to, to either, you know, get him open running down the field or across the field or to the flat or something. You know, they just, they hit you in so many different ways and all the pre snap motions to try to get your eyes moving in different directions. It's so confusing. But at the end of the day, they're just running simple concepts with, with different personnel groups and different ways of running those, those different plays.
- [26:20]
Ryan Rosillo
And they're doing this without Higby too. So like they're also going like to the next three tight ends and look terrific. They had that play a few weeks ago, I forget who it was. Or they ran Puka left to right in motion and then they had him cut up in between the offensive linemen. And then he's coming out of that and you're just going, bro, I watched that play and I was like, why hasn't that been a thing for like 20 years?
- [26:43]
Fred Warner
Yeah, no, it's crazy because they'll, they'll run that insert with Puka a ton where he's coming up into that C gap to now dig out a safety, dig out a nickel, dig out maybe even a linebacker. And so when you got a guy running in there, you got that safety thing and he needs to come in and fill that gap, and then he just runs right by you for an over route, for a corner route. It's like, oh my gosh. Like, these guys are unreal. Like there's just stuff coming at you in all different ways.
- [27:09]
Ryan Rosillo
The Big Shack is out now and it's a serious burger. We're talking two Angus beef patties, three buns, new secret sauce. It's stacked, balanced and built the right way. You get everything you expect from Shake Shack. Fresh ingredients, that toasted potato bun and sauce that pulls the whole thing together. It's big, it's fresh, and it's legit. One of their best burgers ever. I know, I've talked about this in the holidays and a couple cheeseburgers and the kids and the whole thing. But you know what Mom's love is? Maybe not having to cook every single night with family in town. You know what everybody loves is a cheeseburger. You know what's great about this one is that it's easier to put together than Legos because they put it together for you. You're like, who built this thing? You'd be like that guy back there. You're like, ah, this is great. I don't need to buy batteries for this. It's ready to go as soon as it's out the box. So think about Shake Shack and think about the efficiency and think about the taste and think about, hey, I didn't even have to put this thing together. They build it for me. If you've been waiting to see what all the hype's about, today's the day. Go to Shake Shack and order the Big Shack. Sounds familiar. Made different. I love your conversation with Derwin James. Any of us that love college ball, you know, you're getting into the draft and you're like, how's that guy got. Not going to be special. Right? Just watching him just ruin things. And then there's been a few miked up games that I've watched him on where then you like fall in love with him all over again. Because he's not, he's not like nasty talking. He's almost friendly.
- [28:36]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [28:36]
Ryan Rosillo
But it's, it's friendly from this perspective of like, I'm still that dude out here. So, like, don't, don't like, make any mistakes that I'm not going to be out here and be like, evil and, you know, yo, what I. It's so clear that you guys were kind of like cut from the same cloth and like, hyped. And I, I was going to share this with you because, like, I've always liked Tony Jefferson. Right. And then Henley, who you guys had FaceTimed into your interview there, which is always the sign of respect. Because if you're like, hey, who do you want to FaceTime to have jump in the interview as the guy looked at as an answer, then you just look like an but watching that Chiefs game. And like, we get what the Chargers are supposed to be under Harbaugh, right. They have Herbert and the O line is falling apart. And I think we all like Hampton a lot. And the receivers have been kind of like, great some weeks and other weeks, you know, whatever. At least there's some names there. But it's still, like, Harbaugh wants you to feel the punishment, and with all the new rules. And I'm going to factor you into this as well.
- [29:31]
Fred Warner
Sure.
- [29:32]
Ryan Rosillo
With the new rules and the way the game is called. Like, when I watched that Chiefs game, and granted Rasheed Rice had been getting torn apart in that game and he'd also gotten destroyed in the Houston game.
- [29:43]
Fred Warner
I was just about to say that.
- [29:44]
Ryan Rosillo
It was like, he's been mad for, like, eight days.
- [29:47]
Fred Warner
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, he's feeling it right now.
- [29:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Thornton gets hit by Jefferson, and it ended up being a concussion. And look, we can all say, like, hey, you know, the nice thing to say is nobody wants. It's not that. It's. That wasn't the nastiest hit I've ever seen. And when the ball carrier goes lower, as you're lining up the hit, you're. There's nasty plays and they're just mean hits. And Tony Jefferson laid them out. And so then Rice is mad at Jefferson, and I think Rice is more mad because of what he had gone through as opposed to even the hit on Thornton.
- [30:16]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [30:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, I. I just wonder if you're ever, like, if you're one of these guys and you are one of these guys, if you'll have afternoons with an offense where you just want to be like, hey, what do you think it is that we do here? Like, do you. So have you noticed this shift? And, like, when it's physical, when it's aggressive guys like the Chargers have, like you have in San Francisco that you just feel like the offensive guys lose sight of, like, what your job is, even though the rule changes have told you to try to figure out a way to. Safer way of doing this.
- [30:44]
Fred Warner
No, absolutely. And you got to understand, too, it's like, no matter what the time of, I don't know, like, where we're at in football, in the NFL these days, whether it was back when guys were getting folded up like lawn chairs or now where it's like, it's a little more softer. The offense is going to be mad regardless of their. If their guys are getting hit and knocked out or not. You know, it's like, yeah, of course. I feel like there's hits like that Tony Jefferson hit where it's like, what do you want the guy to do? But, you know, guys are taught on offense to protect their brother. Right. Because everybody's talking about, oh, you know, we're family, we're brothers. This out of the other. If you're guys getting hit, like, that's. This is like, the closest thing in my mind and like, with. With the way that our sport is played, how violent it is to fighting. Like, you gotta. You gotta stick up for your guys when you're out there, you know, going back and forth with. With each other. So, you know, I. I'd always have. Have thought about it as I'm always trying to toe the line. Right? I mean, yes, they've made the game safer. We're trying to take certain hits out of it, but at the end of the day, you can still be extremely physical, extremely violent in the right way to now impose, like, because you want to impose your will on your opponent, you want to get not only through him physically, but you want to get in their minds mentally to say, oh, my gosh, these guys are just all over us.
- [31:57]
Cerutti
They're.
- [31:58]
Fred Warner
They're flying around, they're hitting us. It just feels different than anything else we've ever encountered. And I feel like that's a huge part of my game. It's a huge part of how we play defense and how we play, honestly, football here with the NERs. Like, we. We're just good. We're just a physical football team. And that's just how it always is. And that starts, you know, early in the year and in training camp, guys going after each other. Of course, this is all in the right way. Like, it's. Nothing's dirty, nothing's out of line, but, you know, it's. It's a mindset of, like, man, it's either you or me, you know, because if I. If I. If I try to just let off, and now an offensive player is. Is lowering his pads on me or ducking his head and I get folded up. It's like, man, I'm not. I'm not about to put that on tape, you know, because this. This whole thing is our resume at the end of the day. And there, everybody's watching every single play, every single game. And the moment that you let off the gas, you might as well go ahead and hang it up, because then you start tiptoeing around. It's not meant for you anymore. So there. There is a fine line in there of, like, man, what's too much? What's not enough? And you got to kind of. You got to kind of toe that line when, in terms of how you play the game these days, and it is what it is. Like, it's not cut out for everybody. Not everybody's built that way. But you see the guys who, you know, are the imposers out on the field. Like, they, they do tend to toe that line.
- [33:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Once I started working with more of the guys that played defense at espn, like, I used to think, hey, is that necessary? And I don't know. I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. I think it was. It might have been the Sean Taylor hit in the Pro bowl and Darren Woodson. And the audience has heard me tell the story, but I'm going to tell it to you again. And Darren Woodson just looks at me with, like, absolute disgust. And Woodson's the best. And Darren just looks at me and goes, you live like, what? You're on the field. You're live like, yeah, what the fuck are we doing? Yeah.
- [33:48]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [33:48]
Ryan Rosillo
And I was like, you know what? I was like, he's right. Like, that's, that's. Is there an offensive player that you've gone up against? And I'm not going to ask you for the guys that complain too much because that might cause some problems for you. Stormer.
- [34:00]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [34:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Is there somebody that never complained? Like, you can just lay them out and they're like, good tackle, 1,000% Joe Burrow, through and through. Joe Burrow.
- [34:12]
Fred Warner
I played him a couple times and we played him in 20, 23. They came over here. That was part of that, that three game losing stretch where, I mean, we were getting mauled by. By a couple teams and they were one of them that came right before our buy and it was out in the open field and I just ran right through him and he delivered the ball. Anyway, it was on a third down and they converted, but I remember him just popping up like it was nothing. He's like, hey, man, good hit. And I'm like, oh, what the heck? Like, this ran through you? Like, I didn't even let up either. And you see it all the time, though, when you're watching him. You're watching games where, against the Ravens, where it's like, it's, it's, it's just, it's physical. Guys are getting after him, late hits that aren't being called, and he's like, instead of him just like flopping his arms and being like, bro, what the heck? He's like, he just kind of just, just picking himself off the, off the turf. Like, you got his lineman kind of trying to lift him up and he just, he's just a dog. Like, he just, for whatever reason, I don't know, his makeup's different than a lot of these guys in this league. And so my hat's off to him. He. You talk about competitive spirit. He's got it through and through. And you can see why guys rally around him and it's something that makes him special, is that he got that, that dog in him. Some guys got it, some guys don't. And, you know, he shows it.
- [35:28]
Ryan Rosillo
I want to ask about the afc. On Monday's pod, I opened it up saying, I give up. I don't know, maybe there is no one special. Maybe it's all new. And we're having a hard time of that because we know Pat's going to be out, Lamar's out, and the Bills, they'll have a chance at a higher seed here. But with that defense, you're like, okay, you know, and as I watch Jacksonville, a team that I think most people have a hard time saying, hey, I think the Jacksonville, if you're on TV on Monday, I think the Jacksonville Jaguars are the best team in the afc. There's going to be pushback. And now that pushback starting to feel a little unfair because maybe Trevor Lawrence isn't going to be the franchise changing icon that we expect. With that profile coming out of Clemson and being the number one overall pick and having all the physical stuff, this has probably been the best stretch he's ever played. So I'd have to see it be a little bit longer before I'd say, okay, year five, when everything clicks. But if you have a defense like this that has been playing this well now for like five weeks, and then you look at the rest of the landscape in the afc, I don't know where you are. This is not a leading question. It's simply me expressing my own confusion at. Because we have so many of these stalwarts out, including Burrow, all the teams that we normally are going to love in this conference. We have to get real comfortable with something new coming out. Perhaps if it's not going to be Buffalo.
- [36:47]
Fred Warner
Yeah, and we talked about it that first podcast we had last week where it was like, that AFC is so wide open and even more so after this past weekend because, yeah, Denver was slotted as the team to beat in the afc. You know, they were, they were the one seed currently and it was kind of them and the Patriots kind of battling for that top spot. And it's, it's so tough to go on the road and play in Denver. And Jacksonville's kind of, you know, they've had a great year, but there's been some times where it's like, ah, can Trevor make that, that next step to really being the guy and leading his team to, to these Big time. These big time wins in this, in this league. And he's, I mean he's continuing to show it. Now. I, I think like you mentioned, their defense has some real promising pieces to it where they're able to overwhelm Cats and I think Denver of course has a really good defense as well. But there's a lot of pressure on, there's a lot of pressure on Bo Nick. There's a lot of pressure on Bo Nicks to really operate and get and will his team to victory because you know, the run game is, you know, so, so obviously they've had injuries at different positions. Running back, you know, I, it is wide open. I, I like the Patriots a lot. I think, I think their game against the Ravens showed a lot. I, I think obviously Drake May is up there in the MVP conversation with Matt Stafford only in his, what, second season. It's unbelievable. Ray bro seems to be just a complete players coach, understands how to, how to really fire his team up. Their defense is playing opportunistic. The run game's efficient. They, they play, they play the game the right way. Stefan Diggs seemed like he just the ultimate competitor leader for the team. Yeah, man, I mean they, they got a lot of things going in their, in their favor right now. So I, I don't know who exactly. I would say, oh, this is the, the leader in the clubhouse because like you said, like I would have said Denver before last week, but then Jacksonville.
- [38:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Does what they do.
- [38:39]
Fred Warner
So does that mean Jacksonville's now, you know, at, at, at the lead or is it, or now does it go back, fall back to the Patriots? And then of course the Bills have a kind of like a. Yeah, you beat the Browns, but it was a tight game. Josh Allen hurts his foot. So what does that look like?
- [38:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm almost going to make myself pick someone other than the Bills because I think I've seen enough of this Bills team where I'd only be picking it because of one guy. And this Denver defense, I'd like to see it be back to where it was the first half of the season. This has been about five straight weeks where it's not what you'd expect, but the personnel still out there. So if it's Tan, if it's Benito, if it's Zach Allen, like, if it's. Yeah, it's, it's like, all right, well you're gonna just, they're just not gonna be good all of a sudden. Like that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, like Bo Nicks is a little Bit easier for me to go like I don't like him as much as, as this other group of dudes. Right. But then Bo Nicks lights up the packers when I was getting ready to do the. This is why I don't believe in Bo Nick's segment. And then the packers blow that game and, and Bo Nix is. That might have been the best game he's ever played. Like he was unbelievable in that game. So I think I'll probably, I'll probably ask you again at the end of the regular season. It's just not an original question but.
- [39:47]
Fred Warner
It speaks to how competitive the AFC is right now.
- [39:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but like I might rather have the really good defense in the average quarterback going.
- [39:55]
Fred Warner
Yeah, like we talked about before. Yeah, exactly. Right. I think this time of year especially.
- [40:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, I'm going to do this. We're going to make sure everybody's, you know, cool about it. And I sent it out. I asked X for questions for Fred. So we're going to do just a couple.
- [40:13]
Fred Warner
Okay.
- [40:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Here we tagged you on this.
- [40:16]
Fred Warner
Very nice.
- [40:18]
Ryan Rosillo
I'd like to hear his thoughts on the Cold War and the dissolution of the Soviet Union. We're table that one. I didn't prep you.
- [40:24]
Fred Warner
Oh man, that's.
- [40:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you have any plans to fight in MMA when you're done playing football?
- [40:30]
Fred Warner
Yeah, I mean it's a, it's up for, it's up for debate. We might.
- [40:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Are we a well rounded guy or we, we strictly won discipline.
- [40:39]
Fred Warner
Yeah, that's the thing is like I'd have to really get into the ground game stuff because I mean I've, I've trained on the feet for years now, but so maybe, maybe me and Jake Paul down the line, we fight for 200 million and just get, just get tons of views.
- [40:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I could see you signing up for that.
- [41:00]
Fred Warner
He made how much money in his last fight against Anthony Joshua. Did you watch that fight?
- [41:05]
Ryan Rosillo
I did, dude.
- [41:06]
Fred Warner
I mean to get in the ring with that cat, that guy's 66260 and Jake Paul's like 6 foot 122 15. And yeah, of course he's not, he's not engaging from this, from the jump.
- [41:20]
Ryan Rosillo
He's kind of, he's, you know, he's.
- [41:21]
Fred Warner
Jumping around the ring and he's, he's trying to tackle Buddy. But still to even get in the ring with that guy, like hey bro, much respect. And he made like 90 mil doing something like that, it's unbelievable.
- [41:33]
Ryan Rosillo
I've watched Joshua enough to, to feel like like there's box of people that are gonna be like, what are you talking about? He's a heavyweight champ. He's had this many belts and it's like, yeah, but I mean, generally the thought of what he would be at his peak, he never hit that. There was always some disappointing result.
- [41:47]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [41:47]
Ryan Rosillo
That he would have. And you're like, what's going to happen here? And the fact that he's got 30 plus pounds on him.
- [41:51]
Cerutti
Yes.
- [41:51]
Ryan Rosillo
He's got all that reach on him. He's an actual heavyweight champion of the world.
- [41:56]
Fred Warner
Dude, I didn't think, I didn't think they were actually going to go through with it. I was shocked.
- [42:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I, I think Jake, even with the falling down, trying to grapple a little bit thing, and he was running around from him in the beginning, but yeah, like, I thought Joshua was trying to knock him out for like four of those rounds and then he finally gets him and that's a nasty straight right hand. Breaks his jaw. But he didn't knock him out. Correct. So I don't care. You can hate. Look, the YouTube videos weren't for us, man. They were for kids.
- [42:21]
Fred Warner
That's right.
- [42:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Just because Jake became a millionaire off of that and you're annoyed by it now, like, he's, bro, I have all the respect in the world.
- [42:29]
Fred Warner
Oh, absolutely. The same here. Tons of respect.
- [42:33]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, so how about, how about we. Do I need to screen these quicker? Here's, here's a real one. Can he explain the process of hearing the play call in the helmet and how he communicates it with the other 10 guys in the field in a timely manner?
- [42:49]
Fred Warner
Oh, good question. I mean, it's way I. From how I imagine it, it's way easier than what an offensive quarterback has to do in terms of getting his, his whole crew lined up. But because our play calls are what, two, maybe two or three words. I give a two, three word call. But the key is, is having everybody on the same page for the checks throughout the down, like pre snap, before the down even starts. Because yeah, they might line up in a certain formation and it's like, all right, boom. Everybody's on the same page. But if this guy motions, then we're checking to this. But if he, if he jet motions like super fast, we're not checking that. We're going to this instead. Oh, but if he jet motion stops and lines up and then they got two guys that. And then they got a guy that.
- [43:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Shifts over here, then we're going to.
- [43:32]
Fred Warner
Check and we're going to go to this now and we got to make Sure.
- [43:34]
Ryan Rosillo
I got to make sure that all.
- [43:35]
Fred Warner
11 are on the same page. Because if one guy's off, then that's when you see and you got, you get an explosive pass down the field. It's like, oh my gosh. Like these guys just can't get it right. It's like no, there's, there's a lot that goes into the pre snap communication before you even snap the ball. Like I'm barking out all these things pre snap and now I gotta line up, I gotta get in my stance, I gotta, I gotta see my indicators of like what the offense is trying to run and then they're hiking the ball. I gotta get in my job where I have to in the run game. I gotta shuffle, I gotta strike a 350 pound lineman, get him off me, boom. Make a tackle, drive my legs to now push him back rather than getting driven back in the past game, get my cleats in the ground quick enough to then understand, is he trying to look me off, is he trying to throw a ball behind me or is he checking it down? Break on the ball to either make a pass, breakup or an interception or oh shoot, like it's just bro, there's so much going on pre snap to then post snap. Having to go make a play is completely different. Like anybody can go out there and, and say all this stuff, boom, boom, boom. But then now go try and make a play on the football after that. That's where I feel like that's what separates the goods from the greats. Right? So there is a lot of pre snap communication that's going on. But like I said, I couldn't imagine on the other side as a quarterback, all the verbiage, all the verbiage, I mean some guys use wristbands, but all the verbiage you got to get out to the offense. Motions, shifts, making sure guys are set, delivering play fakes, delivering even a simple thing as handoffs to then continuing to do the play fake to now draw the defensive end and make sure that he doesn't just close down the line of scrimmage so they make a tfl. It's like all these little nuances of the position, we can't even get started on throwing the ball like that's putting the ball in the right place, knowing where it's supposed to go, escaping out of the pocket. Do I step up, do I evade to my right, do I bait to my left, protecting the football in the pocket. It's just so much little things that go on for a quarterback. I Can't imagine.
- [45:36]
Ryan Rosillo
I can't believe they're not like at least three or four blown coverages a game. Considering how many snaps, how many things they're showing you.
- [45:45]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [45:46]
Ryan Rosillo
And now with defenses prioritizing all this pre snap movement and shifting like, you guys are inviting in a lot more chance at error. Most definitely advancement. Like, it just feels like this is where defenses are. Like, all right, we're, we have to counteract what had happened the last few years. So now we're going to try to mess you up now the way you've been messing this up for years. And when I see a blown coverage and the one time it maybe happens in a game, I'll see it and like, again, this is me not maybe understanding. Like, this is why you guys are also special. And if you want a smart team, draft smart players. But I'm of 70 plus snaps, 80 snaps, I'm surprised there aren't like three blown coverages a game.
- [46:23]
Fred Warner
Hey, me too. I mean, you go through so many reps throughout a week of practice, of meeting time, walkthroughs, practice time, more walkthroughs and more meetings. Or it's like you, they're ingraining this stuff in your brain over and over and over again at a chance to see it in the game. And it may, you may not even ever see that rep in the game or there's obviously stuff that comes up in a game that you haven't seen, but you still got to be able to think on the fly and make sure if we all mess up, but we're all messed up together, like, all right, we can get through the down, but all the, the problems arise when, all right, we're all correct, but then this one guy's off and he doesn't understand what we're doing. Then it's like, boom, that's when things. Now the defense is unlocked. And as a defensive coordinator, I'm sure it's like, oh my gosh, like, what am I going to call if these guys aren't out there just executing the little things, right? Because yeah, I mean, I could try and put them in a simpler, more simple defense, but that's now hurting your defense because the quarterback, who knows what they're doing, they're like, oh, okay, boom.
- [47:19]
Ryan Rosillo
You, this is, this is, this is.
- [47:21]
Fred Warner
Just seven on seven. Now I know exactly where the ball's supposed to go versus, you know, trying to make it muddy for him.
- [47:28]
Ryan Rosillo
We'll do that every week, just a couple ones. We won't hit you up on The Cold War or anything like that. Okay, good. We'll make sure you're. You're prepped.
- [47:34]
Fred Warner
I'll do my research on. On my history.
- [47:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Make sure you do your research as well. And check out his latest episode with Alex Smith, who, when we had on the pod, like people that were on the fence about Alex Smith, loved him afterwards. We know the friendship means a lot to you. The Derwin James one was great. So Fred Warner, real ones, the league, it's a lot of fun and he's a natural at it. So, hey, get healthy and we'll be talking again soon. All right, Fred?
- [47:58]
Fred Warner
Yes, sir. Appreciate you, buddy.
- [48:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Basketball season is here, which means the excitement of being in the stands before tip off is here, too. The GameTime app gives the advantage back to fans. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use, and the game time guarantee means you can Trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. Plus, fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. I was scrolling through the NBA Christmas Day games and I'm seeing Spurs Thunder tickets starting at $86. I know we have a lot of Spurs Thunder this week. PJ Carlissimo and I talked about it a ton. But I love watching the Thunder and what they do defensively. And obviously we all love watching Wembanyama and trying to see what everyone's done defensive against him, where it's finally like, after a month of games this year, you're like, you know what? I don't know if the Lakers are first. They're so smart with their advanced stuff, but they were like, how about we put smaller, rugged players on Wembanyama, try to mess with them on the catch more, and then we can try to figure out how we want to bring help after that. And seeing that cup game where it was like, man, they had Caruso on him straight up. So is that something they're going to default to? Were they testing it out during a Cup game? Like, this is the cup, but that's the kind of stuff I absolutely love. We talk about it all the time. Whenever I'm watching two teams play when I think they're going to probably be on a path. Not a certainty, but could match up in the playoffs. Like, what kind of stuff are they going to try to prioritize here in the closing minutes in a close game? Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an Account and use code Russello R U S S I l l o for 20 off. Your first purchase terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code Russello R U S S I L L O for $20 off. Download the Gametime app today. Let's talk some NBA. As you know, PJ Carlos Samoe a dear, dear. Well, yeah, maybe we're not that close, but you know how much I love this guy. I love talking about all the biggie stuff. I don't know if we'll have time for that today. A busy, busy NBA schedule for the Christmas viewers out there on abc. He's got the middle game there, Maz and warrior. So it's good to see you, man. Merry Christmas.
- [50:06]
PJ Carlissimo
Merry Christmas to you, Ry. Great to be with you.
- [50:09]
Ryan Rosillo
So I wanted to start with OKC because, you know, look, they're even better this year. They have a million options. It's incredible that you can build a roster like this. The irony is kind of like, yeah, you can't really do this anymore with the rosters and restrictions and Presti's able to kind of get this last version of it in here. And also being on the competition committee, you wonder if he kind of was able to map this out on top of everything else. So look, if you had to game plan against him, what do you do? What are you talking to your assistants about?
- [50:37]
PJ Carlissimo
Well, you know, I mean, the cop out is you can't change too much. You got to play the way you're going to play and you have to take care of the ball. First of all, I don't remember, we may have even talked about this last year at Christmas time. I don't remember a team that has led the league in turnovers, fewest turnovers as an offensive team and led the league in most turnovers forced as a defensive team, which, I mean, people are aware of it, but they don't understand what that means. I mean, you're already starting the game. You're just giving them a whole slew of extra possessions to begin with. On top of that, they're the best or second best. They're one and two right now. I mean, it's a little early for stats, but they're one or two on points off turnover. So when you do turn the ball over against them, A, they force the most, B, they're incredible. I mean, they just, they score like in a split second. I mean, you're so happy when you turn the ball like on a violation or the ball goes out of bounds and it's a Dead ball, turnover. Because in transition they're just, they're incredible the way, how quickly they get down the floor. All their players can run and catch the ball on the fly. All their players can pass the ball or shoot it. I mean, you know, they got two of the best passing bigs in the, in the game with Hartenstein and with Chad Holmgren, and they got a slew of about seven or eight wings that can all run, you know, long arms. They play defense, they run the floor, they can finish in transition and they can shoot threes. So it's like the number one thing is we got to take care of the ball. The interesting thing is they're not a really good rebounding team. So you have that little dilemma right now. Are we going to send people to the boards and try and hurt them when we don't score in the half court against their, you know, their half court defense is excellent, but they're not a very good rebounding team. So you, you're tempted or you're teased into. Well, we got to go to the glass. We got to hurt them on second chance points themselves. And. But then if you do that, you're exposing your backcourt, so you got to walk that line. But it is a way you can, you can get at them, you can hurt them on the offense and of glass, but you better get, you better get the rebound and make them take the ball out of bounds because again, in transition they're so good. And there's a lot of teams that don't even send anybody to the glass. But it's funny, in the last two or three years, and the Knicks right now, or maybe Celtics kind of were a little ahead of the curve. The Knicks right now might be the best they've analyzed and they know now they send guys to the boards from the weak side on the angle, and they're, they're coming up with a lot more offensive rebounds. So it's kind of interesting right now. There's kind of a rebirth of offensive rebounding in the league.
- [53:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm with you, especially with the Knicks, because you have Mitchell, who comes in, who's just an automatic. He feels like he's right. You know, I, there's certain players that you think you have a read on. And then it really was for me, like last year during the playoffs, I was like, this guy's better than you think he is. Like he's, he's impacting possessions, you know, because I don't.
- [53:28]
PJ Carlissimo
He and Steven Adams are in one sense, they're so limited in what they can do as basketball players and in the other sense. The word you just said they impact the game more than most of the players in the entire NBA.
- [53:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I mean, this is a whole different thing because, like, you know, I was watching Minnesota and get that win against okc, right?
- [53:48]
PJ Carlissimo
Yep.
- [53:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Incredible. They got checked or they got Ant going at chat, you know, it looked like something, you know, I'm watching stuff and wondering, like, especially when it's two teams, you could see each other in the playoffs. I was like, I wonder. I wonder if this is something that they're going to do because Ant got really stuck against them last year and you could tell there was moments of him not wanting to force it, but then that sort of evolved into his Ant being passive, of all people. I don't think I'd ever really worry about him being passive, but then this fine line of aggressive and passive where it's like, well, what do you want the guy to do? Dribble into three people and miss a shot to prove how intense he is? So you can't have it both ways. But, you know, when I was thinking about Minnesota and okc, I was just like, the problem is, even if Ant gets the better of sga, which is asking a lot on a single night, it's like I need the rest of the guys to be even, right? To be even. And if you're thinking of like the Chet Rudy part of it, even if you still think Rudy's better defensively than Chet is, it's just hard for me to live with a guy who no one can pass the basketball to. You know, it's kind of back to your Mitchell thing. It's like, you know, how long can I get away with this thing that I also know is super important in some other category that I'm trying to.
- [55:03]
PJ Carlissimo
Win tonight, and it drags him away, like you say, well, then don't put him on Holmgren, you know, put him on Hartenstein or put them on one of the other guys. The other guys, they all, they all go out to the three. Hartenstein maybe is not an effective three point shooter as compared to anybody else, but he's still in matchups and you can't dictate in transition against a team that's so good getting down the floor, you say, okay, we're going to guard him with this. Well, guess what? You can't control who's guarding who. Lot of times a lot of possessions. There aren't that many dead ball possessions. And it's interesting because Minnesota's played Them decently this year. They had a single digit loss to the. That's how ridiculous it is. People are talking about how many points you lose by the okc.
- [55:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, just them getting them once when. When only. It's only happened a couple times this year.
- [55:46]
PJ Carlissimo
Single digit game. The first time they played, they beat him the second. I was waiting to see what happened. Was it last night or the night before? They just lost by double digits again. But it appears to be a at least a decent matchup. They can hang. Other people are out of the game by late first quarter or the first time out of the second quarter. You're saying this game's over. I mean, unless OKC goes to sleep, the game is over. So it's incredible, but it is the key. There's no question Jaden McDaniels is shocking me. I went to the University of Washington game last night, living in Seattle and I just think Back to Jaden McDaniels when he was at UW. I said, this guy's never going to make it in the league. He's not going to be a professional. He's too loose. He led the league and technicals when he was a freshman. The old Pac 12. He's turned out to be one of the best defenders and an excellent player. So hats off to him. But they have some players who can match up with those wings that OKC has. They have about eight of them. It's to the point last year when Cassidy and I were getting ready because we hadn't had him on that much bad on us at espn and I said, I don't recognize some of these guys facially. And they all look the same, they all play the same. They're excellent defenders, they get deflections, they run the floor, they make threes. Now at least I recognize them all, but it almost doesn't matter. Mark Dagno just keeps throwing guys into the game and one after the other just pick it up. They've weathered injuries better than any team in the league. They've had really a lot of injuries over the last couple years led by Holmgren and it doesn't matter. Somebody's, you know, the A.J. mitchells, the Wiggins, these guys, they just step up and they don't miss a beat.
- [57:23]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I mean they've only had Jalen Williams, their second best player for only 10 years.
- [57:26]
PJ Carlissimo
Exactly. And he's one of the best.
- [57:27]
Ryan Rosillo
It doesn't matter.
- [57:28]
PJ Carlissimo
You could make a case he's one of the best five, six players in the entire league.
- [57:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Something that I saw because San Antonio and the Thunder are going to go at it twice here where you know there's. There's a version of events against the Nuggets in that seven game series where it's like, well, once they put Caruso on Jokic that changed everything. And like I've thought about dedicating an afternoon. I don't know that I have the time to do it. But going back to those possessions because how I remember is that Caruso is the initial defender and then it's just swarming people. So the idea that like Caruso is just one on one taking care of Jokic, I don't believe that's what I saw at the time. But I feel like it's been played out a little bit because one team wins a series, the other one doesn't. So I've seen them. There was a game last year against Womenyama where it just the attack dog defense on him where it's like he's so big, the frame is so long that if he's even taken a second with a decision with the ball in his hands just everybody just swarm on him and it's going to overwhelm him. And he looked overwhelmed. The spurs get him in that cup game and in that fourth quarter they went Caruso and they weren't really bringing doubles to him. And I'm thinking like is Dagnal, is he, is he deciding like hey, I'm just going to show you something here or I want to see how it looks. Because this is the absurdity of the Thunder is that I think even with this record and the performance they've had at your point they're plus 5 in turnover margin. Second best team is the Celtics at like plus 2 4. So you're right on it like already going into it, hey, we're going to be down five plus possessions in this game. When you see something like that, do you think that that's hey, let's just see how it looks and experiment. Even though you could argue like why would you be experimenting this here now in what's a cup game and it's supposed to mean a little bit more.
- [59:14]
PJ Carlissimo
Agreed. I think he does. I think he's. If it's possible to be underrated, to have accomplished what Marks accomplished egnault in such a short time. He's not a good coach. He's an excellent coach. And again I give go back. Clay Bennett and Sam Presti deserve a ton of credit. Sam's been the gm, executive vp, whatever his title is right now. He's the major Domo obviously in OKC since 07 08. He got the job in 07 08. He's been on the job since then. So the one thing that's really impressive about it is Clay Bennett and Sam Presti. Clay Bennett, the owner, primary owner, and Sam Presti have been in charge of that franchise ever since. And a couple years ago they just broke it down. You know, after they had, you know, KD and Russell and James and them and different players in and out, it wasn't working. They broke it down. They went back to square one. Mark Dagnol had been a coach of the OKC Blue, the G League team, and they gave it to him. He had a couple of terrible records initially. He's so smart, he's so calculated. There is no question he tries things at times, even tries them early in seven game series. We're going to try and play this way and see what's going on. And no, he's not. Obviously he did care about winning. They were trying to win the cup because it was disappointing for them last year. You remember Milwaukee destroyed them in the finals of the cup last year in Las Vegas and now this team's a different team. They've won a championship. They're close to being at 100% right now. They're, they're, they're healthy. Yeah, I think for sure he was experimenting, if you will, or looking at different ways to play Wemby. I think he will tonight and in the Christmas game because there's a good chance they're going to meet San Antonio somewhere in the Western Conference playoffs. There's a good chance they're going to meet Minnesota again. I do think Minnesota is going to, you know, kind of get, get their act together and they're going to be there too. And it's going to be seven game series are interesting and the adjustments. We've talked about this a number of times. It reminds me so much. It's like college. It's the only time the NBA is like college in terms of you get to prepare, you get to really do things in the next game and you play, you know, you play a little chess match with the other coach. Usually in the regular season, you don't have the time or the practices to change things, do this, do that, you're on a back to back, you're on a trip, whatever the heck it is. And injuries always plays their part too. But that's again where okc, but San Antonio also. The depth is a major factor. OKC's depth is ridiculous. How Many players he plays on a regular basis at key times in a game, although key times for them is often the third quarter, not the fourth quarter. But he puts these guys out there in situations so that if he's got to put him in a playoff game, even in the finals, they're accustomed to it and they're accustomed to playing with the, you know, with different combinations.
- [62:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I've said it before, but I just can't believe like in the NBA I accept it. Right. I accept that especially with success. But usually youth and talent, there comes that bullshit face where you're dealing with stuff that you're like, you know, can't we just lace them up and play guys? Like you're. You're all going to get your accolades, you're all going to get your money. It's all going to happen. And I don't really like. It's just kind of the timeline of the great young player where you're probably prioritizing the selfish things early on. And I'm not even being critical of it. It's just kind of the way of the world in this league.
- [62:47]
PJ Carlissimo
Everybody in their contract year, how they play those situations. Yep.
- [62:52]
Ryan Rosillo
I just can't believe that you could get this group together, have them be this young and Sam can have a vision and culture and Mark can be the most brilliant in game guy, you know what I mean? And for Mark, I don't even think it's necessarily the in game part of it. I think it's his long term, like, this is what we're doing, this is what we're trying and this is who we want to be and we want to be able to develop different options instead of just being who we are, knowing we're going to have this huge advantage. This is just. Look, it's one thing to say in the modern era of the NBA and roster building again, they kind of got in under the cutoff last call of roster building. If they had to go out and just add all these guys now, they wouldn't be able to do it. But to then have a personality where I don't blame a lot of you guys for losing your minds because you're just going, what are we about? What are we about as a team? And if I have some of the wrong personalities, then I'm fighting with my own team than I am more of the opposition on any given night.
- [63:53]
PJ Carlissimo
And that's the reality. There's a lot of teams, a lot. There's a number of teams, a good number of teams as talented or has as good A roster, but they haven't figured it out. And I think that Sam is his own man for sure. But he'd be the first to tell you he took an awful lot from the San Antonio blueprint. And the main thing he took, first of all, is the continuity. What Peter Holt and Pop and RC Buford did in San Antonio, Clay Bennett and Sam are doing in okc, but they do their homework in terms of people and they make a mistake every once in a while, but they move the guy on. They have really quality people, and these young guys have bought into what they're doing. Yes, they've just extended, you know, the big three, and their payroll is going to go off the charts in the future. But SGA and the J Dub and, you know, Chad, Isaiah, I mean, the two pickups last year, Isaiah Hartenstein and Alex Caruso, were such incredible pickups. But those guys are about winning. I mean, I think you could almost say one through 18, the 15 players and the three two way guys. OKC is about winning. And yeah, I mean, SGA is the best player in the league and he gets the most shots. And Jalen Williams, when he's right, is right there behind him. But the team's accepting of it. They know their roles. They know what you have to define roles. You got to have a leading score. You got to, you know, who do you go to with critical situations? That team is on board and their culture, that winning culture they have. It's not rhetoric, it's not cliches. It's what separates them right now. And I think it's why San Antonio will be knocking on that door going forward, because I think Mitch Johnson's doing a great job there, obviously, rc, you know, always. But I think the Spurs, Wemby's like that also. When your best player cares more about winning than he does the individual things and, you know, you do the job they've done. With the rookie of the years with Stefan Castle. I can't believe how good Dylan Harper is. Right. He blew me away at the three games in. I thought he was good when he was at Rutgers. I had no idea he was this good, this quickly. San Antonio is those. Those two teams. If, you know, health is always the biggest thing going forward, that. That may be a great. An epic rivalry for the next four or five years, at least in the Western Conference.
- [66:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm with you on Castle. Like, I thought it was limited coming out, which I think it was. And then, you know, there's something about just aggression. You know, I'm not Telling you, like the handles the tightest. I'm not telling you the finishing package and all that kind of stuff, but I'm telling you right now, it's like if you're not squared up and ready for him defensively, he's going to right through your chest.
- [66:42]
PJ Carlissimo
He is relentless and he works his butt off on defense like he'll guard SGA in jail and he's going to get beat, obviously, as anybody is sometimes. But he doesn't back down. He just got. Remember we used to talk about Bruce Bowen, how Bruce would like defend Kobe and Kobe would get 42 points. And Bruce is working just as hard in the fourth quarter, making him work for every one of those points. That's how Steph defense, he may not be textbook perfect, but he ain't backing down an inch from the best players in the league. And he's really. Danny early was dead on. I remember going to the. They were in Seattle to play Gonzaga. The battle in Seattle. And I walked into the practice and Danny goes, get out. I think he was wearing number five at UConn also. He was down and go down, check out number five, see what you think of him. And he's unbelievable. And in the final Four that year, he could have been the MVP in the final Four. Steph Gas. He was that good as a. As a freshman at UConn.
- [67:36]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [67:36]
Ryan Rosillo
And you're right. I mean, there's stuff with Harper where I don't even care about the numbers. There's just little things with him where you look at his like it was something you saw at Rutgers where you go, oh, wait a minute. Like you thought he was stuck on the baseline and he's not stuck on the baseline.
- [67:51]
PJ Carlissimo
I missed it. I didn't real. I thought he was good. I said, yeah, he's a good player. I had no idea he was this good this quickly. He's amazing. Mitch Johnson, when I we had them earlier in the year against Golden State, ironically, and I said, you know, what about he was out at the time, Harper, he said, you're not going to believe. He said what he was doing first, whatever it was games before he got hurt. And he said he missed a chunk of the preseason. He said he's going to improve pretty much significantly during the course of the year. I mean, you say rookies always do, but these rookies are playing. That's the thing about OKC's guys and San Antonio's guys. They're playing big minutes. Cooper Flag's doing that. I know right now, Dallas's record Isn't great, but this isn't like, you know, on a team that's tanking and he's getting meaning, you know, meaningless minutes. Cooper Flagg is handling the ball, taking big shots at the end of the game, Dylan Harper is. Doesn't realize he's a rookie. I mean, he takes shots. He does things. He did things in the cup that were just super impressive. He's going to be a special player. And. And again, Harp son, probably no surprise at all. Him and his mother, obviously, great bloodlines there.
- [68:58]
Ryan Rosillo
It looks like a guy that grew up as a little kid trying to score against an NBA dad.
- [69:02]
PJ Carlissimo
Amen.
- [69:02]
Ryan Rosillo
That's like, I see some of these things in there where you're like, well, see, this is a guy that was a little kid that his dad just was like, I'm gonna block your. And you're gonna have to figure out some of these little things. And he just. He has this very advanced, like, you think he might be done on the possession, and it's like, he's not.
- [69:22]
PJ Carlissimo
He likes.
- [69:23]
Ryan Rosillo
He is out.
- [69:23]
PJ Carlissimo
He's so big and strong, athletic. I mean, he's really a good player.
- [69:29]
Ryan Rosillo
This leads me to Houston because when I look at the west, we all love okc.
- [69:33]
PJ Carlissimo
Yep.
- [69:34]
Ryan Rosillo
We love the idea of San Antonio. Right. I still love Denver. No shock there, I'd say. I even like Houston. I like Minnesota probably better than the Lakers. There's, you know, the Lakers, if they're fourth, great. If they're sixth, maybe that makes a little bit more sense. Who knows? You know, again, if they're healthier than everybody else, they could. They could be a three seed with this whole thing. But there's definitely some net differential stuff where you're like, how are they that high up than everybody else? Anyway, as I say that about Houston, I watched them this past week and I went through all the games just trying to get caught up after football. So I was like doing a deep dive on them. They. They got Denver in the rematch. They lost the first game in overtime. And those are back to back games. Not back to back on the schedule, but back to back games within five. In Denver, they blow the lead to New Orleans. They lose to Sacramento on Sunday night in overtime. So there's two overtime losses. I think the officiating is probably the first one in Denver where they'd have some legitimate excuses. And I know IME wasn't necessarily happy, but the constant that I've seen in those losses is, hey, we're going to double Durant. It's up to you guys. To figure out now what you want to do off of these doubles. And there's probably too many possessions last year for Rockets fans where it ended up with Van Vliet, and it was like, up to Van Vliet to like, is it going to go in or is it not? But, you know, this, this point guard position that, you know, feels like every year we have less of these guys that truly understand what comes with that responsibility. And maybe it's nice that we have five guys that can score on the floor, but if there was ever a reminder what it means to have a point guard against how he. I just can't believe that Houston's like, hey, guess what? They're going to double him again. They're going to double Durant like 30ft. And you have to figure out something. And, and, you know, whether it's a Men being reluctant to take that over, whether it's Shingoon not loving his matchup, you'd think his ball handling and his vision and his passing that, you know, eventually, like, you'd want to get out of doubling Durant that hard and Shingoon would end up burning you. But this isn't even a Houston thing. You can make it about Houston if you want, but just the shift of this game for so many years to get away from that traditional point guard and then seeing teams like, like me know it'd be nice right now.
- [71:41]
PJ Carlissimo
Yeah, is.
- [71:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Is Chucky fucking Atkins again? Like, I'm, I'm, I'm being a little ridiculous with that name, but there's just nights where I, like, I couldn't believe watching the same thing happen to Houston over and over again in those spots and losing those games we had.
- [71:56]
PJ Carlissimo
It was opening night, so it was a long time ago. The only time I had Houston in person and Reed shepherd wasn't ready then. He's got. He's gotten better. Oh, yeah, He's. He's doing things. I mean, they were attacking him, you know, mercilessly.
- [72:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Every time that OKC opening night, he's going up against those guys, playoff ready defense. Like, I'm watching him going, that was unfair.
- [72:17]
PJ Carlissimo
Yeah, exactly. You felt badly for him. He's improved a lot. And it may still feel, you know, figuring it out and good. It's not. I mean, Kevin's adjusting too, but, I mean, Kevin is a superstar who is easy to play with. People can say whatever they want, but I mean, like, Kevin will give the ball up totally. So I think they, I think they'll continue to improve as the year, year goes on, but there's still a work in progress. I don't think there's any. Any question about that. And it, you know, it's like a lot of teams, I mean, the injuries that. That's a whole. I'm sure you've done show. That's a show in itself what's going on with all the injuries in the league. But you just shake your head and say, boy, if they had Fred, Fred, the way he played last year, beyond believing a man has improved so much. Sengun, if it's possible to be underrated and be acknowledged as much as he is, is underrated. He's. I mean, he doesn't. He doesn't blow you away with some of the stuff he does. Like, he doesn't always look graceful or anything, but he's such an effective player and man is still improving. I mean, he's dramatic. I think a level better than he was last year.
- [73:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, it's just a matter of, like, are you going to have him initiate stuff if Fred can't come back this year? You know, are they going to be in the second round? And my guess would be they're not. But if you have Durant holding it 30, 35ft away from the hoop and you've got a defender under him and then a second one shading at him like, one of the great things about KD is he's not necessarily going to force it. But you could see him even in that Pelicans game, getting really mad. He was starting to get, like, really frustrated going like, hey, look, we've got to have some kind of plan.
- [73:54]
Fred Warner
If the double.
- [73:54]
Ryan Rosillo
If there's. It's a hard double and they're staying with me, we have to have a better plan than you guys wondering if I'm going to try to dribble it from all the way out here, because it's just hard for him at that size to get going with that kind of pressure as great as he is. And then there was one play where you could just tell, he's like, I'm not even waiting. I'm just going. And then he dunked it. And then it was like he was almost looking at his own team after the dunk instead of the opposition, because it was like, hey, we've got to figure some of this stuff out.
- [74:19]
PJ Carlissimo
Cracker Barrel is home to all the more country anytime that means buttermilk pancakes.
- [74:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Whenever you want them.
- [74:25]
Fred Warner
Homemade classics like chicken and dumplings and.
- [74:28]
Ryan Rosillo
A country store full of fun facts finds. Swing by and visit Cracker Barrel today. I want to talk to you about staggering, because there was an Orlando game and they're dealing with all the injuries. Suggs is out now. Franz has been out for a while. You know, Mo's out, too, but, you know, he's in that, that center trio. And now we have Paolo back. And I'd say in that warriors game last night, like it was, some of the back had Paulo, like the frustrating possessions where, you know, he's trying to figure it out, and they're staggering. Like, there was a game against the Knicks in the cup where I felt like Mosley didn't stagger his guys. He staggered him in that third quarter and he. And he was trying, you know, I remember, look, you barely had him, Westbrook and Durant, but that was always kind of the thing where they didn't want to be staggered. Do you. Is that something that you remember with different rosters that you had? Whereas, like, I understand you two guys want to like, start and finish together, but, like, the best chance we have at least to keep up offensively is, you know, you're going to get all the priority looks if, if you have 12 of your 35 minutes not with the other guy. And it seems like some teams or coaches are afraid of that, or some of the players are like, well, hey, I don't my job to be harder out here.
- [75:43]
PJ Carlissimo
No, but you have to. There's no question. And I think of all the things, all the challenges you have as an NBA head coach, coach, figuring out a rotation, especially what you're the rotation, it always matters. But what are you doing with your key one or two guys and, you know, the modern NBA, what do you do with three? You can't win a championship, supposedly, unless you have three of them. How do you figure that combination out? Which guys do you have on the floor at the same time? Yeah, I think it's a major, major factor. It's a big sell job. Two, you know, an individual player and just say, hey, you're better off. And again, it takes time to do it. And all of you say, well, this guy's going to be better with this other guy because he doesn't command shots. But for whatever reason, it doesn't work. You know, he's not a guy they can throw it into and then move. And you got to figure out, you know, how, how, how some guys play better. I mean, even some of the really elite players in the league are really good when they're with the other elite player. And when you say, okay, now this is your time to shine, like, we got to Rest this guy, he's on the bench now. You can take over the game and guys aren't capable of doing that. You know, there are some guys that need even to be, you know, excellent players themselves, but they need to be on the player with the other alpha dog to be effective and they're not real good player. That's why the commodities are those six men like the, you know, going back to the Jamal, Crash, Jeff Crawford and Sweet Lou and those guys that, you know, people say like, well, you know, why do you keep that guy on a bench if he's so good, right? Because guess what? He can bridge the gap when they're, when they're resting the good guy or the good guys, a couple of guys and he, you know, he can score points. He's good enough to do that himself. So sometimes that guy off the bench or a guy who is content or is able to just not get many shots and not play well when he's on the floor with the good guy and all of a sudden you're resting one of them and the guy, you know, the guy kind of takes the game over. So it's, I think it's a major thing. I think it's a selling point. Orlando's had so many injuries. I really think Jamal does a nice job. That team just seems snake bit. It's like they never have all their guys available. I was impressed with them in Vegas and watching tapes of them before. And then, and then, you know, right away Wagner's out. Suggs seems to be hurt all the time. Paolo for his big strong. Paulo's a footballer. Everybody forgets this, Paula. When he was here in Seattle for O day was a quarterback when he was a freshman, everybody thought he was out of his mind when he said, I'm going to concentrate on basketball, I'm not going to play football anymore. Whatever. He was 6, 6, 6, 7. He was playing with Kyle growing up all the time in AAU and against each other and he said, that's it, I'm not going to play football anymore. And o', Day, who's one of the best football programs in the country, lost his 6, 8 quarterback that everybody said, well, he's going to be a first round draft pick and. But it's worked out pretty good for him. But he's still figuring out his game. He has like in the first half in Vegas he was really struggling and then all of a sudden in the second half he just started dominating and doing special things. I like Jalen Suggs a lot. I think they haven't figured Desmond Bain into the lineup was a big thing. Desmond played really well in Vegas. He struggled early in the year. I think they're still figuring out how do they feature Desmond Bain and that group that you're talking about? Staggering. I mean, when you start going Wagner, Desmond Suggs, and Paolo, that's interesting. How you're gonna. Who's you gonna start? How you. I mean, not necessarily who you're gonna start, but when are you gonna sub? How early are you gonna sub? What are you gonna start bringing guys in? You're clearly gonna finish with them. There's no mystery who you're gonna finish with, but there's a big mystery in. In the middle, like, 30 minutes of the game.
- [79:39]
Ryan Rosillo
I want to talk about Draymond last night. Interesting. Even by Draymond Green standards, there was a play where he. He throws the ball away.
- [79:48]
Fred Warner
It's.
- [79:49]
Ryan Rosillo
It's picked off, and then they call a take foul. And he. Immediately after the turnover, and I looked at whatever angle I could find, I was like, was somebody grabbed? And that's why he's blaming the ref for the turnover. It likely was probably something else that was already lingering in his head. And he lays into the ref, and he's like, call the foul. Call the foul. He said it's six times. They don't tech. They don't give him a tech because they're shooting a technical already. So it's almost like they're doing Draymond a favor, which I always like. Jeff Van Gundy nailed it years ago. He was like, the leash that Draymond has is actually longer than any other player. So, like, the idea that he's targeted, like, they. They're almost. They've built up a tolerance to officiating Draymond, where they let him go more than. If other guys did that, they'd be. They'd be getting teased.
- [80:32]
PJ Carlissimo
The things he says and how he says them, unmatched in the league. Dylan Brooks is trying. Brooks is trying to catch up with him, but he's not there yet. It's not.
- [80:44]
Ryan Rosillo
So then the. The Tech is made off of. Off of the take foul again. Cause I was watching it this morning, and then Draymond immediately is like, I'm not done. And he goes back and he talks to the official, but they go to commercial, so you don't get to see the full part of it. And it seemed like he was a little bit more under control than maybe he would have been. Spencer goes to grab his jersey, and he's like, no, no, I got It. I got it. And then he ends up on the bench, and then we real, like, there's this altercation that he has. Kerr, he doesn't come back in the third quarter because he goes in the back, and then they go on a huge run. And then Kerr's like, look, Incur has had to play the same note all the time, right? Hey, this is our guy. He's helped us win because he knows he can't really go the other way with him, because then it turns into something else. So it's like, look, we just accept what it is. And Draymond was like, I had to go in the back. And Kerr said I wasn't going to go back to him anyway. It doesn't really matter. I. I wanted to ask you about this because I, like, you didn't have Rasheed during that peak here in.
- [81:38]
PJ Carlissimo
Rasheed was normal to me, was great to me. He was bad on officials even then. But he. He. Later on, he became, I think, the only guys that ever left the bench. And I don't want to say it, because he's coaching now. Junior for sure. And Strip may have done it one time. They might be the only two. Sheed was fine with me. Officials, he was unbelievable. But Junior and Strick were the only two that I ever had leave the bench.
- [82:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, but you didn't even have peak sheet. Because I was looking at it again. No, no, not even close.
- [82:08]
PJ Carlissimo
Not even close.
- [82:10]
Ryan Rosillo
41 texts in 77 games. And then, you know, my whole thing was that I felt like ultimately there's a line with it where it starts to feel selfish. It's like you just kind of want to do this. And when he went to Detroit, it wasn't like a completely different guy. Like, he'd still be in the 20s. But 41 is an absurd number. And, you know, you had him in his first year in Portland, and I think it was only 11 texts, so.
- [82:36]
PJ Carlissimo
We weren't fully formed.
- [82:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. But, you know, when you have somebody like that, like, I think we both agree, Kurt can't decide to get at the podium one day and just let Draymond have it because he knows there's no point. Like, even if it's the right thing to do and people would agree with me, there's no point. I know my guy, and there's no point in doing this. So. So it's like a bigger picture where I don't know that there's necessarily an answer. I think what I always find frustrating is you can, when you see it, that it's about to happen. It's like, okay, your main priority is not your team, it's not your teammates, it's not the outcome of the game, it's not the points. Because sometimes these texts are in huge spots. You just have decided you want to do this.
- [83:15]
PJ Carlissimo
You could make the case. It was a championship influenced by this. Literally, an NBA championship may have been lost by that.
- [83:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Absolutely. It's a completely fair argument. And I've asked him about it. I remember I had him in Toronto, the All Star Game, and I was like, is there any part of you that ever thinks, like, I can be? And he was like, no, I can't be. And he was defiant about it, too. Like, he wasn't. He wasn't. He was fine. It was. It was a good conversation. He wasn't, like, worked up because I was challenging him a little bit on it. And he was like, I don't have 70 million. I don't have the contract extension. I don't make. I don't get any of the stuff if I go into a game not like this, that I'm not who I am. And, you know, I. I wasn't necessarily, even, like, saying, hey, you're wrong, because I. Because I. I kind of get that part of it. But I'm just seeing, like, as he gets a little bit older here and this team's 500 and there's nights, especially with the defensive matchups and the playmaking where they desperately need him, I just, I, you know, I already know the answer. It's probably going to get worse before it would. I don't know how it's ever going to get better.
- [84:19]
PJ Carlissimo
Better? Well, it's. I, you know, who I always have the conversation with? This is Tom Izzo. And my Kyle's at Colgate, is a senior at Colgate, and they opened up at Michigan State, so I went out and spent two days with Is. And always at some point, anytime I'm with Is, there's five minutes to a Draymond conversation. And he flies into town sometimes. Like, he'll fly. If he's got two days off, he'll go and talk to Draymond. Like, it wouldn't surprise me after what happened last night. Night. Izz will find time before the Big Ten schedule gets going or something like that, you know, and he'll visit with him and it won't be a phone call. I mean, he'll literally go see him. But, I mean, see, I don't want to say deal with the devil. That's not fair. Like, I. I saw Him. After I came back from the Michigan State game, we had him, and he. He donated 3.1 million. You got to see the weight room that he put in to Michigan. I forget. The President Center, I think, is what it's called. It's. It's spectacular. And he knows my relationship with him has always been the same, kind of like a love hate thing. And I go, man, I gotta give you credit. Like, what you did, that was fantastic. But, Steve, that was a deal with the devil that was signed X amount of years ago. And there's a lot more good than bad that's come from it. But it's so far down the line now, there's nothing they can do. And I don't. I don't want to say, because I can't speak for Steve. I don't want to say it doesn't bother Steve that Steve didn't think about it when he went home last night. But I guarantee you Margo's wife just said something like, steve, I mean, what are we. What are we talking about? Is this. Is this something new? I mean, why do we even talk about it? It is. Let's move on. Let's get to the next page. I'm dying to talk to him and Ray Ritter when I get into San Francisco, but that's Draymond. You know who else? And I know you're aware of it. Luca walks that technical line himself with the officials, and even nights, he doesn't get the text. I just think. I can't believe officials are still humans the way Luca is with officials. And the times that he spends laying on the floor when he thinks he was fouled. And it's a five on four at the other end of the floor. But again, you take the good with the bad. And Draymond's not quite as. I don't think he's quite as bad anymore in terms of not playing. Luka will not play for five seconds. And just the next defensive possession, they got no chance because he's not even involved, and he's still barking at the officials and not concentrating on the defense Draymond usually plays on. But the things he. He says to officials and the times at which he gets technical files. And for a guy who's intelligent, Draymond's very intelligent. For a guy who's intelligent, sometimes when he goes off at a critical time in a game, you just shake your head and say, what is he thinking about right now?
- [86:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Look, we could. I could do it all day, you know? And it was. It was funny because it was like a big, emotional weekend on officiating again, right? And Mike Pereira, who has become a friend because he lives in Manhattan beach, when he's here doing work, and I'll end up sitting next to him at Barr and getting some dinner at Slay, and I'm going to have him on. So I really wanted to save when I was going to have him on, but the quote's too good and it works too well right now. And I know he's not going to mind, but he can expand on it. When I finally have him on the show is we were talking about efficiency and the constant complaint that it's never consistent. And I was like, I've accepted years ago that you're asking for something that can never be consistent, to be consistent. So you have to just give up. It's not going to be consistent the way you want it to be consistent. And you get to win every argument by saying, hey, it should be more consistent. You're like, yeah, no kidding. But it's not going to happen. And I asked Mike about his officiating background, and he started coaching high school basketball. And he goes, I tell every NFL official or anybody that wants to get into football, I was like, the first thing you knew you need to do do to become a great football official is officiate basketball, because football is going to feel so slow. And so there's a lot of stuff. I have a generational question that I want to ask you about here before we say goodbye. But to your point, on Luca, I like to go back and watch older games to remind myself of how bad I think some of these arguments are, generation against generation. But one thing that stands out is people didn't talk to the officials, you know, And Marcus Smart was upset because he's like, oh, you know, you go to talk to the official, and all I can think of is like, marcus, I've watched you play your entire career. Like, do you really think the official was like, oh, hey, cool. Marcus Smart wants to just huddle here for a little bit, and we have a state of the union, and we can go over every call that he thinks, because, like, here's what I do know. Watching. Even though there are certain specific issues I have with officiating in the NBA, which maybe I'll get to the overall, like, who's right, who's wrong? If we want to start keeping track of, like, the player that doesn't think he's fouled or the player that thought that there was enough contact to garner the officials are more right so for them to sit there and say, I'm supposed to talk to you after two hours, you've told me you didn't foul anyone and that you've been fouled every seat. You've been wrong 15 times tonight. But I'm supposed to stop everything again so that we can all huddle and like it used to be back in the day, like maybe the superstar would go, hey, what's going on here? If I'm here is this, that. And they were they. And then it was just on to the next. And now it's like, you know, you're like, are you on a two way and you want to, you want five minutes to yourself over here? Like it doesn't, there's no one ever wants to admit that part of the officiating. It's like these guys get treated like crap all night long by everybody, have to talk to everyone. And on the overall keeping track, they're right more than the coaches and the players that are complaining about them every single night.
- [89:57]
PJ Carlissimo
I love to get together with Monty and Joe Crawford and the guys that are doing it now and I mean the way they evaluate them and everything. But as you well remember, it was so fun in the old days, there wasn't every call wasn't being reviewed, like before they even left the building and all that stuff, Stuff. Those guys, you mess with those guys, they would just go, okay, and the next call at the other end went against you. And it was good. You got something else so much.
- [90:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I miss it so much.
- [90:22]
PJ Carlissimo
That was it. And it was like, no. And, and they had the latitude which again, I, I argue with money all the time and they, they don't want to, you know, obviously some of the great guys, but they knew if they blew a call and if there was an out of bounds call and you know, in the next couple minutes they could go the other way with okay, there was the make up. There was no question that's out the window now. I mean none of that is tolerated. It's, it's so different. But what they put up with from the, from the players and, and I got to say, some coaches also is, is mind boggling. It's so different. And for the most part these guys do, guys and girls, I should say, men and women do such a good job overall, it's amazing. But the scrutiny that they're under, how every call is reviewed and the supervisors and how they work with them and how people do continue to improve, it's, it's amazing. But boy, I remember when there was Two guys. And we used to fight every year, the beginning of the year to beat a meeting with the coaches and they'd say, I go, you got rid of the guy because he couldn't run two miles anymore. He was 68 years old or something like that. And we got all these young guys with the nice biceps or women in good shape and they can run a two mile and they give beautiful signals. I said, you could put one of those old guys in a wheelchair at half court and they're going to get more calls, right? Just because they know the game. They know the game, they understand, they see stuff. But it's. You know, I always lamented every year, almost without exception, when somebody would move on and we'd lose a guy and they said, well, he can't cover. He can't get up and down the floor anymore. So I don't care if he can't. If I. When I walk out for a game, particularly a playoff game, I want to see that guy or that lady there, you know, I want to see them. I don't want to see one of the. One of the new ones that gives the beautiful signals and runs a nice mile time and everything like that. I want to see the judgment that you used to have from the. The older. When it was only two officials and. And they were the kings. They could do whatever they wanted to do and really nobody back, you know, nobody said anything to them. It was great.
- [92:28]
Ryan Rosillo
I want to end on this because I've thought about trying to one day create the definitive generational debate. But I know going into the exercise, there's no way I would come to a conclusion where I would get people to change their minds. I was watching a Piston Celtics playoff game from the 80s, and the clip that I sent out, there were some factors in it that thinking about it were unfair. But really what I was always focused on, on like something that. There's a couple NBA coaches that I'm friendly with now will like send clips to each other and we'll go, like, look at that. Like, there's no help. There's no double. Like their help. Rules are just. They don't even exist. Like, it's just, you either have the guy or you don't. And the, the thing that jumps out at you is like, I think some of the physical stuff in comparison to today's game, like, people act like it's this Mad Max version of basketball. And I think that gets overstated because these guys are much bigger and faster and quicker, and I think they're beating on each other and it comes down to this hand checking thing. So I'd say advantage like the current generation right at the current generation. Maybe that gap of physicality isn't necessarily there the way everything is packed in. I don't know how anyone could watch basketball from the 80s and 90s and watch today's game and go like hey, you can talk load management all you want but it might be just the sheer science of look at how much ground you are covering, look at what you are running to. You're cutting, you're. If there's a pick and roll ball side and the big is the roller, I'm on the baseline and I've got to figure out whether or not I'm going to come over and help against like a 610 guy who's already bigger than me. And I've got to somehow figure out how to break up that lob or I have to worry that the guy in the Corner is like 37% and my coach actually doesn't want me to help on the roller. And then I've got to show that I might disrupt lob and then recover all the way over here. The way that they'll blitz, I mean again the blitzing thing isn't necessarily new. But I don't know how anyone fair can look at these games separated by 30 or 40 years and not admit that the physical strain of what you're asking to do. And I understand nutrition and flights and all that kind of stuff. But I got to tell you pj, watching any of the stuff from back then, I can admire it, I can love it the way I did as a kid. But I have to be honest that, that it's just you're asking today's player to cover so much more ground. The tracking alone makes it a different game without question.
- [95:02]
PJ Carlissimo
And it, it, you know, I, some unfortunately we've lost so many of the guys but I would love to have had if, if, if we co hosted a podcast and had guys like John, the guys who were level headed that, that aren't going to be, you know, overly defensive or something like that. I'd love to have guys like Havlicek or you know, some of those guys talk about what it would be like to play now. What, what they, you know, what they would think it would be like to participate or what do they think of today's games? Because and, and rightfully so some of these guys are very, very, some, some of the great ones that are, that are still around with this are very defensive about when People say, well, this guy couldn't play in. In today's.
- [95:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but see, look, like the great ones would figure it out. Like, you know, like, you want to sit here and talk about guys throwing fastballs? I'm like, I think Ted Williams, Willie Mays, I think they'd figure it out. Like, I'm.
- [95:51]
PJ Carlissimo
I'm.
- [95:52]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm always, like, defensive of those guys. Like, I wouldn't want to say, oh, Bird wouldn't be able to guard anybody, or Magic couldn't shoot. So therefore, like, they would figure it out. I'm just asking anybody to be. Just be honest with what your eyes tell you and going, hey, they bring it across the court. Like, even in some playoff games, nobody's even really picking you up. Nobody's getting your face. Nobody's disrupting the first ball action. Yeah, it's like, you know, nine guys got their foot in the paint. Like, you're setting. You're setting screens on, like, somebody catches it on the block and a center setting a screen for you on the block, and your only move is to turn left shoulder into the paint, and you're like, oh, my God. It's. It's like, all right here. And you're not worried about closing out, like, on any shooters, except for maybe one guy.
- [96:35]
PJ Carlissimo
Yeah.
- [96:36]
Ryan Rosillo
And it's okay. We agree on that. Now, here's a point for the older generation, because as great as Jalen Brunson is, as great as SGA is, as great as Trae Young's numbers are in his career, the other part where I would ding today's guys is if you officiated these players the way they're officiated now, I'll admit, like, everybody kind of makes the NBA hall of Fame, but. Or the Pro Basketball hall of Fame is what I should call it, there's guys that I think are going to go from like, terrific careers to hall of Fame careers solely because of the benefits of today's officiating. And to throw in now this pivot foot thing, which apparently you can just change your pivot foot.
- [97:23]
PJ Carlissimo
Well, which college college gave into it. Now we got continuity in college. College rule now is if you've stopped your dribble and you get fouled, you get another step. And the officials, because it's new, are all loving the caller, but they've given in. Like, the NBA's one. It not as continuity. And we want to have. We want to have consistency, so we're going to have continuity. Come on.
- [97:46]
Ryan Rosillo
So as great as Jalen Brunson, like, I have Jalen in a tier above some of the other guys. Like, look, I've just mentioned sga. I mean, he is the mvp, may win it again this year, but there's stuff they did they do today. If they did it in 80 or 90s game expecting, like, you know, if you could play the time travel game, game, everyone would look at you being like, what did you just try to do?
- [98:08]
PJ Carlissimo
Yeah, you crazy. Yeah, exactly.
- [98:10]
Ryan Rosillo
What are you nuts?
- [98:11]
PJ Carlissimo
Like, we're not. It would be like you tried to do in high school when you were growing up. It was a travel and it was like, no, no, no one thought to even argue about it. You can't do that. That's ridiculous. You couldn't do that on a playground. It'd be a fight on a playground if you did it and say, that's travel. You can't do that. Yes, you can.
- [98:31]
Ryan Rosillo
These are the convers. We need to do the full retro. I would really like to dig into all the things that I think are fair pluses and minuses for both generations, but I can't. Every time I throw on something 80s, 90s, I just go, hey, look, it's okay to admit they just don't have to move around as much. And it's just all clogged up, which actually speaks to the greatness of a Jordan. And it's like, look how clogged that is. Like, imagine that guy in today's spacing.
- [99:00]
PJ Carlissimo
You know what?
- [99:02]
Ryan Rosillo
I'll run out.
- [99:02]
PJ Carlissimo
I know we're rapping. I still laugh. In the 70s I went to because everybody was talking about the Knicks. Are they going to hang a banner and all this nonsense. I went to. I was there in 70. I was undergrad in 70 at Fordham and I was there in 73. I was an assistant coach and saw a whole bunch of those games in the finals. You know who was on the bench? Red. Danny Whalen. The trainer was next to him and Frankie Blush out was like an official score. That was it. There was it Now. Now when there's a play, they said they're looking at a second row and there's 11 guys in the second row. Six of them have iPads. And they're trying to figure out whether it was do we challenge, do we challenge or not? I said, like, I remember. I'm saying I was sitting there. Dustin Hoffman was the row in front of me, like four seats to the left. Red Danny Whale. And that was it. On the bench.
- [99:47]
Cerutti
Bench.
- [99:47]
PJ Carlissimo
Denny Whelan had a white nick warm up top on. Red had his suit on. That was it for suits on the bench in the NBA. And he had Willis and Bill Bradley and Debussier and Clyde and all those guys. And it was like, holy, man, has this game changed a little. Every time I'm in the Garden, I think of sitting there watching those Knick games in the playoffs, going, wow, have we evolved a little bit. And I'm not complaining. I like when I was a head coach and I like when I was an assistant and that old. But when I went to Portland, I had three assistants. That was it. Dick Carter, Rick Carlisle, Johnny Davis, and then I had El.
- [100:20]
Ryan Rosillo
When did that change? When did it go from like, here are your three guys? To, like, where are your 11?
- [100:25]
PJ Carlissimo
Because when I went, there was three guys. And you were lucky if you had a trainer and a strength coach. And the trainer did everything, booked a travel. You know, if you had a trainer, a strength coach and an equipment manager. We flew in a Bach 111. I think there was 22 seats. There was only two teams in the league that had planes. Detroit had round ball one, and we had the Louisiana Pacific plane. Right then it is Danny Green now who brokers all the planes. Where do you see the next generation of planes that's coming into the NBA when they. When the current ones, it's time to replace them.
- [100:58]
Cerutti
It's.
- [100:58]
Ryan Rosillo
It's.
- [100:59]
PJ Carlissimo
It's a new world. It's a new world, right?
- [101:03]
Ryan Rosillo
I love talking to you, man. I love talking hoops, love talking. Wherever we go with this, make sure you check out PJ On ABC this Christmas. You can celebrate with him with a little Mavs, WAR Warriors.
- [101:12]
PJ Carlissimo
We got a whole bunch of hall of famers, NBA players, MVPs. We got more accolades for the coaches and the players in that game. Their records might not be real good, but I'm like, you know how you write your little notes for a game? I got no room for the notes for these two teams. There's so many rookies of the years, leaden steals, leaden points, one Olympic gold medals, future hall of Famers. It's incredible. It's a great matchup.
- [101:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Individual, but also took. It took Cooper like 18 games to figure it out. Maybe 15 games to figure it out. He is.
- [101:44]
PJ Carlissimo
Do you see he just turned 19 Sunday. Do you see the set of stats? It's only Kobe and LeBron. He's second or third in like virtually every points, assists, rebounds. There's only two guys that have ever done more. Dwight Howard beat him out in double doubles. The only other guys that have beat him out is Kobe and LeBron. Nobody's done what he's done at the age of eight team. It's amazing. Amazing. Cool.
- [102:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I can't wait.
- [102:06]
Cerutti
He's.
- [102:07]
Ryan Rosillo
He's made that team like appointment viewing. And that's, that's really how I feel about the league now. Like there's, there's almost no team early on. I mean, look, I could be mean and name a couple rosters, but I have, I have, there's interest level on almost every single roster for me, especially with how great this rookie class has been. So I can't wait for the holidays.
- [102:27]
PJ Carlissimo
Olympic games when the young kids the select team and they put Cooper on the select team when he hadn't even played at Duke. And get. You saw what he did against that Olympic team before they went to Paris. You know, it was like even I could figure out five minutes. People said like, well, how's he going to be in the NBA? I said, are you kidding me? The guys on the, on the Olympic team were going, man, this kid's for real. He hadn't even gotten to Duke yet. He's unbelievable how good he is. Unbelievable.
- [102:49]
Ryan Rosillo
I know. And he could have, he could have actually been in high school last year too. Not, not, not that.
- [102:54]
PJ Carlissimo
19. Sunday. 19 years old. It's. It's absurd.
- [103:00]
Ryan Rosillo
It's fun. It's a lot of fun. And always a great visit with you, my man. Thank you.
- [103:03]
PJ Carlissimo
You too, Carlos. Merry Christmas.
- [103:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Merry Christmas. Before we get to life advice, let's check in on the alliance because we do not have the props up. So Serutti will, will lead us and give us the scoreboard.
- [103:20]
Cerutti
Yeah, we're recording this on Tuesday and we're going to have a alliance parlay for the Christmas day game. So the props aren't up yet. So we will have that up Wednesday. It'll be on the drafting sportsbook. It'll be on our social. So make sure check it out there. Our three leg alliance parlay. But I do have our record so far. Boys, I am leading the way. I've got two pushes which is weird. I'm four, one, four and one with two pushes. Kyle is four and three and Ryan is three and four. Ryan on a three game skid here looking to turn it around so records aren't terrible overall. Still looking for our first hit in the alliance, but we'll get there.
- [103:49]
Kyle
I check mine. I'm consulting with my guy who's been red hot.
- [103:52]
Cerutti
Who's your guy?
- [103:54]
Kyle
He's just a guy in the crown jewel. I don't want to give too much away but he's been red hot on DraftKings kings. So until he fails me, we'll be using his stuff.
- [104:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I got arrogant about it, I'll admit. Just kidding.
- [104:05]
Cerutti
The OG ones.
- [104:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. King of the corp. Nail the first couple, you're like, all right, all right. So check that out on DraftKings. We'll have that up on socials as well on Wednesday. You want details?
- [104:18]
Fred Warner
Bye.
- [104:19]
Ryan Rosillo
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the.
- [104:26]
PJ Carlissimo
South Fork, I have every toy you.
- [104:27]
Fred Warner
Can possibly imagine, and best of all.
- [104:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Kids, I am liquid.
- [104:32]
Fred Warner
So now you know what's possible.
- [104:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. Email address is lifeadvicermail.com kind of regret not doing what we just did. We talked about lemons in a big Meyer lemon phase. Right now. Hoping to buy some fresh ones today. I've been squeezing one into water. It's not because I'm trying to lose weight.
- [104:52]
Fred Warner
I've actually.
- [104:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Actually the heaviest I've been in a while. I'm not quite sure what I'm doing, what the goal is here.
- [105:00]
Cerutti
Are you a cleanse guy? Do you ever do cleanses?
- [105:02]
Ryan Rosillo
No, but I've thought about a three day fasting. Like I had a stomach virus one day and was like, well, you starve this, you already haven't eaten yet today, so you're already a third of the way done. Why not just do two more days? I'm afraid I'm going to lose like £12 and then it's going to take forever.
- [105:20]
Cerutti
Your doctor told you that you needed to, right?
- [105:22]
Ryan Rosillo
My doctor? Whoa. I was getting an MRI in this torn ligament and he was like, have you ever thought about losing a few pounds? Do we already do this or do we do this?
- [105:31]
Cerutti
I don't remember if this was a phone call between you and I or if we honestly blurred together. Kyle seems confused and maybe it was a phone call.
- [105:37]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm pretty sure it wasn't on the pod because I wasn't even sure I wanted to do it.
- [105:40]
Cerutti
We could talk. Wait.
- [105:42]
Kyle
We could do a three way call if you guys want to talk weight. I mean, if you're just going to do stats. I mean, I got NBA stats, I got nothing. But you guys can always merge the call if we want to talk weight. Like I got stuff to say off.
- [105:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Air probably, but I was just like, look, I'm. Everything hurts all the time. Rem. And I couldn't. I was like, you know, you might need to change things up here. And he was like, you know, he's like, have you thought about maybe just losing a few pounds? Because, like, every pound of weight you're carrying is this many pounds. And I was like, are you. I gave him like a. Like, fuck, what have you seen me. Yeah. Like, lose a few pounds.
- [106:16]
Cerutti
Not telling you to lose weight. Just go on the scale and subtract 10.
- [106:20]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm not talking. I'm not telling you to talk less. I just need the other host to talk more.
- [106:25]
Cerutti
Yeah.
- [106:28]
Kyle
Side note, I'm probably going to be doing a fast. My. My stepdad did like a 10 day thing. Like 30 pounds.
- [106:33]
Ryan Rosillo
10 days.
- [106:34]
Fred Warner
Dude, who are you?
- [106:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Come on.
- [106:36]
Fred Warner
He's.
- [106:36]
PJ Carlissimo
I.
- [106:36]
Kyle
Man, I don't know. I can't. I couldn't believe it, but he did it. Like 30 pounds. Melted right off of him. He got my wife all jazzed up about it. And he was like, you know, be the best way to fast is together. And he looks at me, I'm like, oh, man. So I don't know if it'll be January. I was thinking about doing dry January, but, like, there's a lot of football going on in January, so. And then February.
- [106:58]
Ryan Rosillo
January. Terrible ideas. Maybe April.
- [107:02]
Kyle
Maybe we could squeeze it in in April. But I think I should do a month boost free.
- [107:05]
Cerutti
But it's just getting nice out. You want to drink outside, though? Yeah, I don't know.
- [107:08]
Ryan Rosillo
It's.
- [107:09]
Kyle
Yeah, I think January is out and February is the super bowl. So, like, that has to be out. Unless we could do like a half month, half month thing, maybe.
- [107:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Why can't you just do post. Post super bowl into march? Like 30 days is 30 days, man.
- [107:21]
Kyle
Yeah. And then the tournament starts, and then I'm back in. Okay, thanks.
- [107:25]
Cerutti
I'll figure out.
- [107:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that'll be good.
- [107:27]
Cerutti
I do.
- [107:28]
Kyle
No halftime.
- [107:28]
Cerutti
What kind of cleanse do you think?
- [107:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Hats at Broncos AFC title game.
- [107:32]
Cerutti
Yeah.
- [107:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, guys, you think I'm not gonna.
- [107:35]
Kyle
Want to crack open a sculpin?
- [107:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Come on. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe my doctor saw those pictures from the salt lake shit show.
- [107:44]
Cerutti
Angles.
- [107:45]
Ryan Rosillo
That could have been it. Yeah. Yeah. He was like, what the is going on? So I. Yeah, I gave him a. He's like, I'm not saying because you're out of shape. I just think it's kind of the Tim Duncan thing. It's not wrong. Imagine if I just shave off like £15 and go, what's going on with him? And it's like, pick up basketball. He was that worried about it. It's knees. I haven't Ruled out. I haven't ruled out.
- [108:06]
Cerutti
It's not a bad idea at all. I mean, yeah, like, you know, your joints, you know, all that stuff. You know, you look nicer. Even your face a little bit like I thought about that. You know, my face a little puffy. Eating a lot of, you know, a lot of carbs lately. It's like, do I, you know, you cut back. But the problem with the juice thing though is like you just. It's not really like a sustainable thing. Like you just kind of gain that back right when you go back to your normal lifestyle.
- [108:26]
Ryan Rosillo
I believe in the cleansing fast thing. I just haven't done it. There's gotta be something good about it charging your body and it starts eating stuff. I like I haven't looked into a ton of it, but that seems to make sense to me. I just don't think I'm going to do it. Maybe I should.
- [108:41]
Cerutti
Sometimes I'm just hungry.
- [108:42]
Kyle
Sounds terrible, but I don't know.
- [108:44]
Ryan Rosillo
We'll see. Can you work out? Probably should, yeah. Workout? Yeah, I guess you can do. Hey, do anything.
- [108:53]
PJ Carlissimo
Yeah.
- [108:54]
Ryan Rosillo
Kevin Garnet.
- [108:55]
Cerutti
Well, is your oyster.
- [108:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. All right, we. We're going to get to the life advice emails. You want to talk about the most hated guy to email into the show? Super safe favor. Just buckle up, buddy. Got a ton, huh? No one likes you. People are mad at us for not being meaner, which I think is probably fair. I think it just was kind of an understood like he had some self awareness.
- [109:17]
Cerutti
So that was the thing. Like it's. He kind of was like am I going to alienate people? Do I suck? So at least like he's, he's asking for help. So I'm trying not to be too mean, right.
- [109:25]
Ryan Rosillo
But it's kind of like somebody who's like I don't like to tip more than 12%. It's like well credit is self awareness. Like nobody's going to take his side in anything. But we have an announcement or at least Ceruti just want us. By the way, are you rocking an Ohio shirt?
- [109:38]
Cerutti
No. Lobos, New Mexico. Yeah, my guy hooked me up. Shouts out to New Mexico. I'm using them in my ncaa two time national champs in my NCAA franchise.
- [109:47]
Kyle
Oh, that's right.
- [109:47]
Ryan Rosillo
So they reached out to you and sent you some gear, huh?
- [109:49]
Cerutti
Now this guy, yeah, he just hit me up and was like hey, big fan of the show. Big New Mexico guy. I want to send you some stuff.
- [109:55]
Kyle
So yeah, is it a guy from New Mexico or is it guy?
- [109:58]
Cerutti
I'm not really nice guy. We've been dming, I think. I think he's involved with some car dealerships. So I don't know. I don't have a lot of answers.
- [110:06]
Kyle
Maybe an auxiliary guy.
- [110:07]
Cerutti
Great gear.
- [110:08]
Ryan Rosillo
See if you can price out some brush guards.
- [110:10]
Kyle
Yeah, I'm looking for rain guards.
- [110:12]
Cerutti
By the way, he told me he was a VW guy too. He listened to Pod and I said I had some vw. So he's excited about that as well. So, you know, it's good stuff. I'm not quite stand for Steve level yet, but I am, you know, send me your free gear if you want.
- [110:24]
Ryan Rosillo
That would be all time. I can't pivot if you went full Stanford, Steve. Because then I would just be like, where's that coming from? Like, oh, Gucci did a crossover with Liverpool. Guy sent me some stuff. I'm like, what? Yeah, so Chalamet, speaking of Liverpool.
- [110:43]
Cerutti
Yes. Yeah, I speak. Yes, Speaking of Liverpool. Our. Our guy sdkid. I don't know who that was before this whole thing happened, but have you guys been, like, following this at all? Because I've gotten a lot of tweets about the shalom. I think being like, hey, you were like, this might. Might have been the thing we're most right about all time being me. And, you know, I'm not too. My horn on horn. I've been wrong about plenty of things, but, like, I was just early on the Chalamet thing, and it's. He is absolutely peaking right now. Like, I don't know if you guys are following what's going on. He's got the martyr.
- [111:06]
Ryan Rosillo
It feels like a new peak. I didn't even know if this peak was possible.
- [111:09]
Cerutti
He's re. Yeah, he's. He's. There's the second peak that we didn't even know is.
- [111:12]
Ryan Rosillo
It was like, was reachable plate tectonics. You know, it's like that mountain's actually higher now.
- [111:18]
Cerutti
Correct. It's like a volcano just growing even more each time it erupts. Yeah, he had this rap video that, like, you would expect it to be terrible and it's not. So basically for anyone who doesn't know, he's got this movie, Marty supreme, coming out, which. Which looks really cool to say. I think it's a. It's a Safdie movie. Right. I forget which Safdie. Benny. Which one? No, Benny's in. I think Benny's in the Odyssey movie. The other one's doing this movie. But anyway, so he's got this movie coming out to Promote it. He basically did a, did a remix on this like Liverpool rapper who everyone thinks he looked like for a while. He just decided to like, I'm going to do a verse on it. And it was awesome. Like, it was like a legitimately very good rap song. The video is super cool. It's only like, you know, probably a minute and a half long.
- [112:00]
Kyle
Probably a smart move that way too.
- [112:02]
Cerutti
Yeah. And then he's doing like stuff where he's standing on top of the sphere in Vegas making noises and he's spending like Tom Brady Marty supreme gear. Like, I don't, I, I mean, the term white boy of the decade has been thrown around. I, I, I'm not.
- [112:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow.
- [112:19]
Cerutti
I'm not the one to judge that. But the guy is like on an all time run. And even if you don't like the Kardashian thing, which I don't really, it is cool to date Kylie Jenner, right? Like, it's, she's hot. Like, there's no real, we're not like beating around a bush here.
- [112:31]
Fred Warner
Like the guy.
- [112:32]
Ryan Rosillo
I think there's a lot of dudes that would probably take her up.
- [112:35]
Cerutti
Yeah, I think, you know, pull my arm. Yeah, I'd figure it out. I'd make it work. He's just kind of living every dude's dream. He's like a movie star. He goes to Knicks games, he's a rapper. Now he's dating this super hot channel chick. Like, I don't know, other than being like a professional athlete, I don't really know how much better it gets for a guy.
- [112:52]
Kyle
And the, and the film guys are like, dude, you guys are so stupid. This is him promoting. Like he's grinding for these promotion. Like he's, he's basically the Tom Cruise of this generation. It's like he's keeping movie theaters alive. So even, like that crowd is like, they're looking at it through a different lens. Like, this is all marketing and it's hidden, so.
- [113:09]
Cerutti
Yeah, yeah. The thing about Shadow man too is like you, you know, we've accused guys being like fakers in the past. I'm, I know, I'm just like waxing poetic about my guy here. It's like, hey, dude, like, give it a break.
- [113:19]
Kyle
Yeah, his shit checks out. Like the Knick stuff, you know, he's a ball knower.
- [113:23]
Cerutti
Like, he did, like, he was talking about, he was talking about somebody asked him an interview years ago, like, what his favorite soccer team was. He was like, oh, it's Saint Etienne. Which is like kind of not obscure. Club, but a smaller French league club. He starts naming players. I'm like, this guy's just like. He's not just making shit up. Like, he knows what he's talking about, and the next thing is not fake. And, like, people kind of gave him. Because I think I forget. What was it? The SAG Awards? It was some award where he said, like, I want to be the greatest, and I don't really care. Like, this is what I want to do, and I want to put it out there. And people like, oh, that's lame. Like, whatever. It's like, nah, man. I. I kind of. Nothing that he does seems inauthentic and lame, and it's just like, I don't. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone like that before. So anyway, the rap video. Sick. Check it out, dude.
- [114:01]
Kyle
If he gets strong, can you imagine?
- [114:03]
Cerutti
Yeah. That's the only thing he's like.
- [114:06]
Kyle
Or he just finds the right tone. Like, not Jack, but he finds the right. Like, you can see it through a T shirt, and you're like, damn.
- [114:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. I just don't know if he has enough frame there. Like, when Tom Hardy started beating up dudes in jiu jitsu, and you were like.
- [114:21]
Cerutti
Yeah, but he's.
- [114:21]
Ryan Rosillo
You were like that. I don't think.
- [114:23]
Cerutti
I thought, how tall is Shalom? Because the problem with heart with. With Tom Holland is he's. He's like, what, five? He's short.
- [114:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Tom Holland? Well, you're not talking about Tom Holland, dude.
- [114:30]
Cerutti
Oh, Hardy. My bad.
- [114:32]
Kyle
Yeah, he's short too, though.
- [114:34]
Cerutti
They're both short, I think. I think Hardy's, what, five, seven?
- [114:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. No, Well, I don't know about really.
- [114:39]
Cerutti
I think so. I'm pretty sure. Let me look it up.
- [114:41]
Kyle
That sounds crazy to me.
- [114:43]
Ryan Rosillo
I. I.
- [114:43]
Cerutti
Hold on.
- [114:45]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know. You know what? Let's leave it unknown. Don't even tell us, because I don't want guys. I don't want guys that are 5 7, listening to this podcast, going into fucking Christmas, having a great week, and then this one comes out. We're talking up all these guys, and then we ended on this note where it's like, oh, he's 5 7. And then all three of us are like. Like, you know What?
- [115:01]
Cerutti
I'm only 5 10, so it's not like I'm. I. I feel like, yeah, but I.
- [115:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Let's not do that to the five, seven, and under guys.
- [115:06]
Cerutti
That's fine. You know, that's fair. Let him chalamet 510 for the record. Oh, okay.
- [115:10]
Ryan Rosillo
All right. Yeah, well, that's fine.
- [115:12]
Cerutti
Hardy's below that. I'll just say that.
- [115:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay.
- [115:14]
Cerutti
Okay.
- [115:16]
Kyle
Congrats on Chalamet. No, you were right.
- [115:18]
Cerutti
Thanks.
- [115:18]
Kyle
Yeah, congrats. I never was against him. I was just like, he can't be my 10 when we're rattling off tens. Not yet. Maybe. Maybe he'll go.
- [115:24]
Ryan Rosillo
There's just no way that Kyle or I are allowed to like him as much as you.
- [115:30]
Cerutti
I don't care. I'm not one of those guys that's like, hey, I. I stake my claim to him.
- [115:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, I'm vented him.
- [115:34]
Kyle
Wasn't even about that.
- [115:43]
Ryan Rosillo
This is my buddy, Ceru. Invented Chalamet. What? Yeah.
- [115:45]
Cerutti
He was the first guy he knew. Although I did bring it up, too. Did you guys see the The Odyssey trailer?
- [115:52]
Kyle
I watch every one I can find.
- [115:54]
Fred Warner
Awesome.
- [115:55]
Cerutti
It looks really, really fucking cool.
- [115:58]
Kyle
Theaters for that one, maybe. Ryan, do yourself a favor. You should see that one in theaters, too. I don't know how often you're going.
- [116:04]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I've been going. Yeah.
- [116:06]
Kyle
That road scene really got you back on track in the road chase in one battle.
- [116:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't think that that is PTAs, like, best movie at all. I think we want to talk recency bias on, like, hey, how good is Drake, maybe, right? People trying to say that movie is PTA's best one. Like, it's great. I loved it. I love seeing it in the theater. It's not in his top three. There you go.
- [116:29]
Kyle
Fine with me.
- [116:30]
Cerutti
Name is top three. You won't.
- [116:31]
Kyle
Great road scene.
- [116:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Boogie Nights, There Will Be Blood, Ghost D.
- [116:46]
Cerutti
Now that we're going, we're just really off topic.
- [116:48]
Fred Warner
Did you see.
- [116:48]
Cerutti
Was that Tarantino Paul Dano thing? Was that real?
- [116:53]
Ryan Rosillo
I didn't like it. I can tell you that.
- [116:55]
Cerutti
I didn't like it either.
- [116:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I got out. I got out immediately. His. His portrayal of that kid in Prisoners is so good, and, like, you feel so bad for somebody that you also think may be the reason this guy's kid is missing. All that Hugh Jackman stuff like that, to me is like, hey, there's a bunch of good actors out there. And then there's a little reminder of, like, what the great ones can do. And I was bummed out about all that. And then you're just kind of like, did he do something to him? Although, you know, in this industry where it's so hard that everybody's just super nice to everybody all the time, and it's like, this person's brilliant or this person's brilliant. Or this script is the most amazing thing of all time. And you're like, is it maybe somebody just not liking somebody was almost refreshing to hear because I think generally that industry doesn't ever want to be nasty towards anyone else because it is kind of a small world and it is so hard. And it's like, you don't want to be some guy who's like, oh, this show sucks and this movie sucks and this director sucks. It's like, oh, yeah, where's your shit?
- [117:58]
Cerutti
What did he say, though? Was it like, this would have been the best movie ever if Paul Dano wasn't in it.
- [118:02]
Ryan Rosillo
It was nasty.
- [118:03]
Cerutti
It was like one.
- [118:05]
PJ Carlissimo
What?
- [118:07]
Cerutti
Yeah, I, I, I hard. Disagree. I mean, I respect Tarantino, but that's just an odd. Not. I'm not. I think all three of us are. We're fine with a little hate here and there. Like, it, it. You got to balance things out. That just felt unnecessary and wrong.
- [118:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Look, if something really sucked, I, I find it refreshing.
- [118:24]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [118:24]
Ryan Rosillo
You went off on.
- [118:25]
Cerutti
What was it, Zach Bryan. It was like the, you were just like, that song sucks.
- [118:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I thought the lyrics were pretty full worst on that one. I'm also not aspiring to be in the country music scene, so it's a little safer, you know? Safer?
- [118:38]
Cerutti
Yeah. It's not your lane.
- [118:40]
Ryan Rosillo
I think that ship is sailed. I don't think that's gonna happen, so don't.
- [118:43]
Cerutti
All right. Barriers yourself.
- [118:45]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, I. We're 16 minutes in. This is a really long pod. Yeah.
- [118:49]
Cerutti
Anyway, sorry.
- [118:50]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I, I do that all right. Thing as if it's anyone else's fault other than my own. So we did it together. We had one the other night where we were taping at night, and I did it to Kyle. I still feel bad about it. I was like, all right, all right. You know, I gotta eat dinner here or something like that. It's like, I'm the one. One that's.
- [119:03]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [119:03]
Kyle
Why don't you tape the ads then, guy?
- [119:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right. No, no, it was 100. I called myself out in the moment as I did it. That was fun. It sounded really bad. And I was like, that's not what you're about. So let's, let's make sure everybody knows. Luckily, doing this long enough that I don't think anybody was going to get offended.
- [119:18]
Fred Warner
Okay.
- [119:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I was going to do some extra ones today because of the holiday, but, boy, I don't know, maybe we'll just call this a segment in itself. Addicted to saving. It's hard to express how much I Hate this listener who wrote in about half eaten hot dogs. I think he's delusional that his friends get a kick out of it. I bet they egg him on so he continuously makes an ass out of himself. He's missing the fact that he's not in on the joke. He is the joke.
- [119:49]
Kyle
I had that feeling.
- [119:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Great example of what Ryan always says. What if everyone did this? Capitalism would fail because nobody would want to start a business and deal with asshole customers that operate at this level. Fuck this guy on every level, in every way imaginable. Love the show.
- [120:03]
Fred Warner
That.
- [120:04]
Ryan Rosillo
That's probably the best way to summarize the 20 plus emails that we got about that guy in there. So I don't know if you know. Yeah, I just would.
- [120:13]
Kyle
I wondered if the friend thing, like when he said, my friends, what do you say? Think it's performance art. It might just be like, oh my God, look, he's gonna do it again. What a idiot. It could have been like, like, oh, man.
- [120:24]
Cerutti
Wow.
- [120:25]
Kyle
Wait, he. That guy always saves a buck. Really incredible. It might just be like, yeah, we'll laugh at this for a couple minutes and we'll do whatever else we were doing.
- [120:32]
Ryan Rosillo
There's also like factoring in cost, like, is it worth it to miss an inning or a half an inning?
- [120:38]
Cerutti
Yeah.
- [120:39]
Ryan Rosillo
To then go, like, I'm gonna get back in a line and bring him my supposed stale beer. Where then I get a half a beer for free. Then if I do it with a hot dog, it's like, okay, what are you actually doing? Now there's another way to look at this. Maybe this guy is so cool and so incredibly well liked that he does this thing that most people would be like, are you seriously gonna do that again in. And in fact, he checks enough boxes in every other facet of life that they like, you know, there's usually wait.
- [121:04]
Kyle
In line, walks right up.
- [121:06]
Cerutti
That's the thing. He's checked, he's got friends, he's married, and he said he had a good job. So, like, he might be fine in all the other aspects of life.
- [121:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [121:16]
Cerutti
You know, how many dudes would take that?
- [121:19]
Ryan Rosillo
A lot of dudes. A lot of dudes. All right. I'm worried. My 11 year old son is not cool. 38 year old dad, NBA comp blazer Sean Kemp. I like that. Three boys, oldest of which is 11. He has a lot of oldest child traits. He's kind, hard working, organized, thoughtful, considerate. You guys think I'm like that.
- [121:40]
Cerutti
Yeah.
- [121:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, thanks.
- [121:44]
Kyle
I haven't seen really the Notepad. How organized. But you have a notepad. That's good. Considerate, definitely. But I'm just. You're saying organized?
- [121:53]
Cerutti
I don't know.
- [121:54]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. All right. Also a bit anxious, high strung. He's a big kid, plays D line on the football team. The coaches are working with him. Get a little more aggressive on the field though. My wife and I've noticed that he doesn't have the trademark aloofness of most 11 year old boys. He's always the one initiating hangouts. He's learning texting etiquette and we're trying to teach him that his friends might not always text back right away way. And to give them some time before sending a second text. That's going to be a weird conversation with an 11 year old. Hey, just let it breathe, buddy. Just let it breathe. You text Topher, all right? Don't send him a second one until Monday. When he's with his friends, he brings energy and intentionally and is always really excited to see them. This is usually matched by typical whatever attitude of most 11 year old boys. I realize his thoughtfulness and kindness might be more appreciated once he's in high school or college, but I'm worried that his demeanor isn't terribly compatible with being one of the guys as he enters into middle school. I realize none of you have 11 year olds, but it feels like you're qualified to give insight. Wow, that's a shocker.
- [122:54]
Cerutti
Thanks.
- [122:55]
Kyle
I think.
- [122:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Obviously we can approach this using the same wording as they did in the subject line. The motivation is for him to make and keep friends as he enters into what can sometimes be a roller coaster like time of life. What do you guys think is the best way to help him out in this area or are we overreacting? Acting. The first thing I'm asking here though is does he kind of have friends and maybe isn't the coolest in the friend group? Because that's what it sounds like.
- [123:19]
Kyle
Yeah, everybody needs those guys too.
- [123:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. The other extreme is like there's no one to even text. You know, he's not on any teams. No one. Like he's not showing up as the guy that's more friendly as opposed to maybe this one hit way too close to home with Steve. But I, I'd have to guess that like the fact that you, you have somebody that has like a friend group is like I would worry about this way more if it was there's. He's 11, he's on teams and nobody ever is talking to him because there's Also that, yeah.
- [124:01]
Kyle
And sometimes dudes like the friend group that you're in, like, not that you're like a, a super late comer, but some dudes could have been like gone to summer camp before you guys even went to school together or something. And you're like, you know, they're just hanging out anyway. It's not anything wrong with you. They're just like, they already got their own thing so maybe he has to like sort of get in where he fits in. So the other thing I was going to say is like they're 11. You might be able to like not supervise a hang, but like if they're in the living room, they're not going to be like, dad, don't even be near us. Like, you might be able to just see like how he is with the, with the dudes. Unless he doesn't know. Not like sit down and play a game of Mario Kart with him. But like, you know, be an earshot and be like, is he, is he saying some loser right now or am I just. Maybe, maybe, maybe an overreacting helicopter pyramid?
- [124:47]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know.
- [124:47]
Cerutti
Yeah, you're gonna Monday morning Quarterback your 11 year old son. Be like, you should, you shouldn't have said this. Like, you should have went the other way out. Like, I don't know. That's also kind of.
- [124:54]
Kyle
Don't tickle them, dude, don't tickle him.
- [125:01]
Cerutti
I always just remember this one thing that I think my mother in law said this about raising kids is your peers will let them know the kid has to just, they learn their boundaries. I know it sucks to see, and I'm gonna probably go through it as a parent at some point too when your kid gets disappointed or sad or let down by a friend or something happens and it sucks to see but your kids kind of have to go through that stuff to know what the boundaries are, are. And 11 is still really young where you're still, yeah, you're like, you still kind of need to figure out who you are as a person and like who you even want, what, what qualities you want in friends and who you want to hang out with. So I, I, you know, I, I would just lay out, like, I, I just don't, I don't, I think your job unless like the kid is being like bullied or there's something like extracurricular that's out going down. Yeah, like, I just think you kind of just got to let it run its course and there's a lot of game left. Yeah, totally. And like I I, I, I do think, like, being raising like a kid, growing up and figuring out what their boundaries are, that's an important part of adolescence and childhood. And that's how you learn, like, what you're supposed to do in social settings.
- [126:04]
Kyle
Damn, dude. Well said.
- [126:05]
Cerutti
Yeah, I said, hey, I mean, listen, I am a parent. What's up as a father, Taking some notes.
- [126:11]
Kyle
Ready, dude.
- [126:12]
Cerutti
But, but, yeah, so that's, I, but again, I imagine that's hard. I know that's probably hard to like, when you're seeing this unfold as apparently, like, that's not going to fly. Like, should I say something? Something? I know that's hard to like, actually hold your tongue, but that's probably the best way to do it.
- [126:25]
Ryan Rosillo
That's pretty good. I also wonder if he's the oldest of three. Does the parent like, is our emailer really cool? Was he cool growing up? Sounds like it, yeah. It sounds like he's picking up on a few things that maybe a not as cool parent would just be oblivious to. So he's picking up on little things. But are the younger brothers, like, giving him a hard time? Is the middle guy the coolest? Which is always like a weird dynamic because it's just like with three boys, it's like, you can't have that happen, but it inevitably is going to happen. The oldest isn't always going to be the coolest. There's something I was thinking about, and it sounds like it's just kind of like you're worried about entering into a danger zone. So it's not like he's not, again, to the original point. He's not having zero contact with his peers. And Serutti's line about the peers thing is so perfect. So I'm not going to stay in this too much longer. But I didn't know if there was something that dad could do where it's like you were talking about the supervised hang. Could you take him to an NBA game game, like him and three of the guys and kind of see how it goes and tell him, like, hey, don't sit next to me. Make sure you sit next to your buddies. And then you don't sit next to your dad or, you know, like, that's what a cool guy would do, you know, I don't know if there's some different observations there where you would get a better understanding of how he fits in or if you provide access to something really cool. Do his friends maybe look at him a little bit differently of like, hey, that's so cool. Your dad Was able to get us those tickets or whatever. And then maybe it raises your kid's stock a bit, even if it feels artificial or crafted or whatever. I like that. Maybe look inward, dude.
- [128:02]
Kyle
What kind of snacks are you laying out? You handing out unsalted trail mix or, like, what do we got going on?
- [128:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, oh, no, it's.
- [128:09]
Kyle
Are there gushers out at your crib?
- [128:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, what do you.
- [128:11]
Fred Warner
What can they expect?
- [128:12]
Kyle
Expect, you know, because I can tell.
- [128:14]
Ryan Rosillo
You which houses we wanted to go to as kids, and I can tell you, first and foremost, fruit by the foot. Based on the health food situation at my house, Grape Nuts. I remember one of my friends just being like, I don't want to go to your house. And I was like, no, we have a full baseball field. Like, let's go. He's like, there's never anything to eat there, and it all sucks. And it, like, crushed me. And I was like, he's right. But then I would go to his house and I would eat Eggos in the morning, and his dad would come out and be like, oh, I'm paying for you too. And I'd be like, oh, hey.
- [128:43]
Fred Warner
Yeah.
- [128:43]
Ryan Rosillo
So there's a flip side. How's it. How's it going? Suck? Because he was just like, the mom didn't care. The kid didn't care. I'm his friend. Sleeping over. And I'd always wake up super early, and I'd be like, oh, Eggos, let's go. And then I'd be sitting.
- [128:56]
Cerutti
You would just walk upstairs, like, alone, and just start making Eggos in somebody else's house.
- [128:59]
Ryan Rosillo
I was over there all the time. Yeah, it wasn't. But the dad always let you know that you were on his tab.
- [129:07]
Kyle
One o' clock rolls around and tell your friend to go home too.
- [129:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, I'm paying for your food, too. To go.
- [129:14]
Cerutti
Yeah.
- [129:14]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, then you always kind of want to be like, you're kind of the guy that presents himself as the rich guy in town. So you're going to haggle over dollar ego here, Mr. Jag.
- [129:23]
Kyle
Super Saver.
- [129:24]
Cerutti
We had a buddy who was.
- [129:26]
Ryan Rosillo
He was doing it just to make you feel like he would. It was the routine. It's what the routine was. He 100% wanted you eating the Eggos. He just wanted.
- [129:35]
Kyle
I follow a guy on Instagram who is like, his whole shtick is like, your friend's dad who's like, who ribs you for being over his house too much and really hits home. I'll see if I could send it to you, Ryan, because It's good.
- [129:46]
Ryan Rosillo
His dad off me, I was over there all the time.
- [129:48]
Cerutti
But off that though, we had a buddy growing up who like for some reason just would never tell his dad or really his parents, mostly his dad. He would invite people over. So we would just show up at his house and be like, what are you doing here? It's like, oh, hey, you know, so and so invited me over and he's like, okay.
- [130:03]
Fred Warner
And like you're.
- [130:04]
Cerutti
What are you supposed to do? Like, my parents just dropped me off, I don't have a ride back. So I guess I'm here, here.
- [130:07]
Ryan Rosillo
I could walk home.
- [130:08]
Cerutti
But it's like you. And this is like, this happened multiple times. It's like, guy, can you just at least give your parents a heads up that we're coming over?
- [130:14]
Kyle
Big non confrontational friend you got there.
- [130:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Just let it go. Yeah, but I kind of love that, that that kid was just taking over the entire scene on him. Because like we had another kid a couple years, three years later than that was like eighth grade into freshman year of high school where everybody was just going over his house every single weekend for whatever reason. It just turned into like, hey, we can go to his house. And it's not like we were even doing anything wrong. We're staying up, not sleeping, playing RC car on Nintendo, never sleeping, getting yelled at. But what would happen is if you weren't there that one weekend and something went wrong, then you were blamed for what went wrong and the dad would just lay into you the next time that you were there. And it was pretty weird that you started to even realize at like 13 and 14 years old, you're like, I just got to take it. And then not listen to this guy because he's wrong and he's just going to. And he'd be like, were you here the last time when this happened? Because all the guys said and then you didn't want to not be there there any of the weekends because you were like, something's going to go wrong and then I'm going to get blamed for it just by attendance.
- [131:09]
Kyle
Now you're a light bulb guy.
- [131:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [131:10]
Kyle
You smashed the light bulb.
- [131:11]
Ryan Rosillo
You weren't even there, but it was awesome. Kind of getting to that point of like that realization of like 14. You're like, hey, you know what? I might not have to listen to this guy. I don't live here. I know he's a man and he's big and I'm a kid, but I don't know if I'm going to what's.
- [131:30]
Cerutti
He going to do about it? Yeah.
- [131:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Like at 11, you got me, man. 11 year in my head, I'm freaked out. I'm scared of you, the whole thing. I'm like 14, I don't think. Then he used to have a brother would come down in tighty whities and tell us he was going to beat us up with all this karate shit that he supposedly knew. And he had man hair and he was in a band, so we were kind of afraid of him. But then we were like, hey, is there any chance his brother's full of shit? Yeah. Is there any chance like one of us.
- [131:58]
Kyle
100%.
- [131:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Wasn't going to be me, but one of the other guys maybe still feeding the flames.
- [132:04]
Kyle
Like one day one of us got to do something.
- [132:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Then you'd run into the guy like after high school, a couple years later and you're just like, hey man, what's going on?
- [132:13]
Kyle
Did you get that brown belt yet?
- [132:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. You still still up at that dojo?
- [132:19]
Kyle
Did you make sense by.
- [132:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, last one. Should I accept a free car that has my sister's face on it? This is different, man.
- [132:28]
Kyle
What?
- [132:29]
Ryan Rosillo
23 year old in the southeast. 622 10. No gym stats. I do dumbbells and sit at benchy because of shoulder injuries. Pick up comp. Yusuf Nurkic. This guy's beasting on people. Here's a situation. I work for my sister's business and I drive a very old car on its last legs. I've been thinking about upgrading. My sister overheard and said that if I want a company car, she'll get me one. But it'll have her picture and the office number on on it. Realtor Interior design only Fans no, in this circumstance, I would have no car expense because the business would pay the lease and the insurance. I was planning on trading my car in for something where I would pay 5k out of pocket and it would still not be a very new car. This would give me a brand new car and save money. But as a single guy in my 20s, I can't imagine what it'll do to my social life. Imagine driving to a date in a car with your sister's face on it. What do you think? If I do it, then it'll be pretty awesome financially for me for the two year lease and I save for a nice car after and could make the dating life harder. What would you do in my shoes? This is a legit dilemma.
- [133:36]
Kyle
Do you have any girlfriend prospects you want to just take get a jump on maybe?
- [133:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Can she Be aware of the transaction.
- [133:44]
Kyle
I don't think I would. Considering everything that he told me, I don't think I would. But that's.
- [133:47]
Ryan Rosillo
I met him when he had his own car.
- [133:49]
Cerutti
Car.
- [133:51]
Kyle
Like, but that's my old, like, my younger brain working, saying, like, I'm weighing. You know, I'm doing. Weighing these things. And I don't. I don't think I'd want to do that unless. Unless you're like, I could just do this for a couple of months. Save whatever. Three, four months of no. You know, no car. But it sounds like his car's paid off.
- [134:08]
Cerutti
No. How old is he?
- [134:10]
Kyle
He said mid-20s, I think.
- [134:15]
Ryan Rosillo
23. He's 23?
- [134:16]
Cerutti
Three.
- [134:18]
Ryan Rosillo
I. I would.
- [134:19]
Cerutti
I would take it. I mean, here's the thing. You got. If you're going on. Yeah, it's probably on the side door.
- [134:25]
Kyle
Right on the side door. Is it a whole car wrap?
- [134:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, if it's on the hood, is that different? Totally. Totally. I don't know.
- [134:36]
Cerutti
Different.
- [134:36]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, your sister's. Her face is on the car. Does it really matter if it's on the door or the hood?
- [134:42]
Kyle
Well, is it, like, the size of, like, those little, like, town vehicles you see when you just get, like, the seal of the town, like, right on the.
- [134:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Right on the passenger side door? Yeah. What's the point?
- [134:49]
Cerutti
Yeah, I guess you can't negotiate with your sister about what goes on this car. Like, can you say, hey, can they. Can it not be your face? And if it has to be your face, can we. Can we strategically put it somewhere where it's.
- [134:59]
Kyle
Can I get a magnet one?
- [135:00]
Cerutti
Make me look like an idiot. Can I get a magnet one? Yeah. Not a terrible idea. Like, does the business matter?
- [135:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Because if it's like, hey, how come you do catering and your face is on the company car?
- [135:11]
Cerutti
And we think of that.
- [135:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, we put some prosciutto on there with a melon product on it. You know.
- [135:18]
Kyle
If it's. As it stands, though, I don't think I would do it if I. I think I was really concerned about getting dates back then. Yeah, I think I was kind of concerned about it. I think it. You know, but, you know, like, I don't know.
- [135:29]
Cerutti
I guess. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Can you.
- [135:31]
Ryan Rosillo
You're saving money.
- [135:32]
Cerutti
You have to show out the car. Like, this date, can you finally bring the car out? You know, doesn't have to be the first, second, third date, you know, fifth date. You kind of are comfortable with each other. She's probably like, if she Likes she might not leaving you, little thing like that. I don't know.
- [135:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, and like what town you're in. If you were in New York City and I'm like, you're out in the wild trying to go on dates. And granted you wouldn't need a car necessarily in New York City, but if you were in there's certain cities where I would go. There's no point. Like the girl's not going to understand. Southeast, the American Southwest. I think they'd be Albuquerque. You do?
- [136:03]
Cerutti
Well, Provost might think it's funny too.
- [136:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, there are going to be some girls that are going to think it's funny. I, the best thing about this is I, look, I wouldn't want to do it, but if you guys are making me feel crazy. Right. If you own it, you're kind of the man. Like you if you're so self assured and you know, women do like confidence and you just go, yeah, what's up? My sister's face is on my car.
- [136:26]
Kyle
Helping my sister out.
- [136:27]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, this is the plan. I get a two year lease, not I don't have a car note. And then maybe a sweet little Mustang in two years.
- [136:37]
Kyle
Really into helping my family. Just driving this around everywhere, you know, trying to get the word out.
- [136:41]
Cerutti
Out. Yeah, you know, she's a good kid.
- [136:44]
Kyle
She's a good kid. She needs, you know, she needs all.
- [136:46]
Ryan Rosillo
The help she could get.
- [136:47]
Kyle
I'm happy to do it.
- [136:49]
Cerutti
I, I think you do it, Kyle. I feel like you're talking yourself into the. Yes. There's so many ways you could play this off as you being a good guy or you being funny or whatever that like, I think the financial benefit sounds like, you know, five grand plus the car payment like sounds like you could use that money. I, I, I, I don't know.
- [137:05]
Kyle
I just remember the feeling of liking my car. And it's fucking awesome. When you like your car, that's the one thing.
- [137:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Especially as a younger dude, it's up to you. If you're gonna be self conscious about it, you're never gonna be able to sell. Like I'm immediately thinking about the list of my friends in college who would pull this off and it would somehow work and it would be awesome.
- [137:23]
Cerutti
You know, it's always like the hot friend though. It's always like the guy who's like, you know, he never has problem with girls. He's always dating somebody and he has like, it was like, I remember like the friend in the group who like first wore like pink for the first time. You're like, oh, yeah, of course he would. He would pull that off. And then everyone else starts wearing pink and it's like, oh, yeah, okay. This kind of works.
- [137:39]
Ryan Rosillo
This is back in Comic book.
- [137:40]
Kyle
I definitely wasn't the first guy. Definitely wasn't the first guy.
- [137:41]
Cerutti
I was not. I did wear a white suit.
- [137:44]
Kyle
Definitely talk shit about that guy. And then, I don't know, a year and a half later, there I was, Thomas.
- [137:48]
Cerutti
I could see that cufflinks.
- [137:50]
Ryan Rosillo
The pink dress shirt thing was huge. In the early 2000s. Not 201 or 2001. I should say 201. I don't know why I did it that way. Maybe this. Talk about the Odyssey. I hope you do it. I hope you do it because I do think the girl that gets it is like such a keeper alert. Just think about that. Like the girl that's like, you know, could you date a girl who had her brother's face on his car? Now? We would just go as men. How hot is she? And if she was hot and be like, I'm polish that thing every week because I don't care about your car if I'm attracted to you. So.
- [138:41]
Cerutti
But like, in reality, though, just. Just really quick, like, if. If he. If he. If the one worry is just meeting girls. Like, what. When is this gonna bite?
- [138:49]
Kyle
Probably one A. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [138:53]
Cerutti
Like, it's not.
- [138:53]
Ryan Rosillo
It's up to you to. Right. To not have first impression.
- [138:56]
Cerutti
Right?
- [138:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Because most of the time you'd be meeting somebody. If you live in a populated area, hey, we're going to go here, whatever. You know, set the vibe. And then I'd say drop it off with valet and then have her see it, like the second or third time. Be like, this is my car and that's my sister. Yep.
- [139:15]
Kyle
I also think in mid-20s, having not having to pay that car money is pretty sick. I mean, I was doing the bus for a while there, but then once I had the car payments, it was like, size tax.
- [139:24]
Ryan Rosillo
God damn. Didn't I already pay for this?
- [139:26]
Kyle
Like, really? Son of a. So that was, you know, that would be cool not to have to do that.
- [139:31]
Ryan Rosillo
So. All right, that's a long show. Want to do that for you Christmas week, Next week, Monday, Friday. Correct. Yes, Monday, Friday.
- [139:42]
Cerutti
You might have a fun little idea for Monday.
- [139:44]
Ryan Rosillo
I think we have a great idea. I don't think it's a fun little idea. I think it's an incredible NFL idea idea that we will be doing on Monday's pod as we are a week out from wrapping up the NFL regular season. I think it works out well. I think it was looking at the slated games and looking I think we needed to do something to juice that Monday a little bit. So let's do that. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks to Ceruti. Thanks to everybody that works on the show. Hope everybody celebrating Christmas enjoys the time that they'll have with their family. And like I said, we'll be back next Monday, so please subscribe. Ryan Rosilla Show First One Network.