← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
Giannis Trade Teams & Deadline Buyers/Sellers w/ Bobby Marks, Plus Unpacking CFB Portal Drama w/ Bruce Feldman
01:55:10
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey Priscilla Listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcast and Spotify Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. The Ryan Rosillo show is presented by DraftKings. Today's show Trey Deadline one week away. Bobby Marks Giannis the market, the possibilities. We'll run through a bunch of teams with him. Bruce Feldman the athletic college football we're going to talk about some of the portal precedents that we thought could be sent but weren't his freak before the NFL draft coming out of the Senior Bowl. And one more conversation about Indiana because honestly, if we talked about Indiana this summer, they deserve it after what they just did. Reactions from other coaches in the industry on their remarkable season and we've got life advice. DraftKings Sportsbook, the number one sportsbook for live betting, is making every snap, every drive, every moment of Super Bowl 60 count with DraftKings Live Millions, featuring over $5 million in prizes just for betting live. Here's how simple it is. Head to DraftKings Sportsbook App, opt in and receive a promo token. Place a live bet of $1 or more on the super bowl and you're automatically entered. That's it. And every live bet means another chance to win. Place a live bet and stack your entries. This Super Bowl 60, once the game wraps up, will randomly select our prize winners. There'll be more than 100,000 winners. Will you be one of the top prize winners? So jump in, bet live and let the entries roll in for a share of over $5 million in prizes. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use the code RYAN. That's code RYAN. R, Y E N BET live for your share of $5 million in prizes with the code in partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler, New York call 877-8-HOPE and WHY or text hopeny connecticut. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino in Kansas. Wager tax pass through May apply in Illinois 21 and over in most states.
- [02:10]
Bruce Feldman
Void in Ontario.
- [02:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Restrictions apply. No purchase necessary. Opt in required minimum odds minus 500 prizes either bonus bets or single use 20% profit boost max bet $20 that expires in 30 days. See official rules@sportsbook.draftkings.com promos for entry period and free method of ENT by Crown Gaming Inc. We are one week away from the start of the NBA trade deadline and who better to join us from ESPN? He has his own YouTube channel. You should check it out. Bobby Marks, former front office MEMBER of the NBA all right, Bobby, let's get into all this. We got the word from Shams yesterday, which I think was very clear. Giannis's camp, hey, get this out. We want it out. We want to put pressure on Milwaukee. You have a week. Um, what do you make of that announcement in the market for Giannis?
- [02:56]
Bobby Marks
Oh, I thought it was coming eventually. I, I think I was on with NBA Today the day before and they asked me about it and I said that I think Milwaukee had an obligation to at least start looking to see what the offers could be out there, even if there's not an intent to, to move them right now or maybe there's something they don't like. They could probably wait into the off season here. So I, I wasn't surprised as far as that coming out. I think I will be more surprised if a deal gets done by next Thursday. I'm probably more in the camp that this is going to drag into the off season here when we get to the lottery into free agency.
- [03:39]
Ryan Rosillo
I guess I don't understand the priority of the language. It was very clear there was some language in that report from Shams where it's like, hey, get this out there, but let's be nice about something that isn't nice. And it goes back to the summer, whether it was you talking about it, Windhorse talking about it with us, where it's like, well, if you want it out and you wanted to go to the Knicks, you need to do that in July. So I guess I'm. It just feels like the tactic is incredibly flawed for like fundamentally it's like you want out. Okay, well, you're better off in this league. You're not going to get your way being nice about things. And that's why some guys have to go nuclear. So I guess the strategy part of this is like you're not doing a very good job of getting what you want because you're prioritizing things that I just think ultimately are never as important.
- [04:36]
Bobby Marks
Yeah, I mean, listen, the optimal time if he was going to be wanted to be traded was the summer. I mean that's the reality of it. And once they, once New York extended Mel Bridges, that basically took a big piece off the board for New York. And then you go into the, then you come into the regular season and listen, you're not going to make early season trades. I think the timing of it, especially for a player who. Have we even gotten a diagnosis from the Bucks? I know he self diagnosed himself four to six weeks and stuff. I don't think we've gotten a medical update from Milwaukee here. So I, it's, it's a lot to kind of digest with a week. You, you've, you've studied these big trades and everything like that. How many times are you doing like two team deals, right? Unless it's Luke in the middle of the night. Like that just doesn't happen here where you're, you're bringing in three or four other teams. I went back and studied all the trades under this CBA this morning. There's been like five big trades, you know, five or six of them. All of them, except for probably the Desmond Bain trade has been pretty, pretty simple, I would say. But yeah, it's, and especially that, you know, whoever trades form, you're not getting him right now. Like, you're gonna probably get him what, in, in mid March. Where are you in the standings based on what you have to give up? Can you trade for him without a guarantee of him extending? It's different than Jimmy Butler, Jim. When Jimmy did his, the trade last year, he extended right the same time. He's not extension eligible to October 1st. Yeah, it's. Will it be a wild card team out there that basically says, you know what, we don't really care, we're going to try to go for it right now. But yeah, the timing of it, I think I would have probably understood a little bit more if he was playing and they were losing. Now he's hurt, he's on the sidelines for a little bit here. But I do think looking back at from Milwaukee's understand and I think we talked right after they did the Liller wave and stretch and then they signed Miles Turner. I think there is, there was a point where like, let's try to hang on as much as we can with this guy. But I do think when you're trying to trade a franchise level player, I think you have a certain window to go out and do that as the days go by. And if you get into the off season, I think that window starts to close a little bit here.
- [06:54]
Ryan Rosillo
Let's talk about the market then. How many, how many teams do you think are actually like viable? Because one, it would be. They would have to be okay with the extension. They're working this out behind the scenes with the agent being like, hey, if we're okay going to you, you have to give us reassurance that when that extension date comes up and then the numbers, if you want to go over those as well, like how small is the list of potential suitors that are ready to sign off on all this stuff makes basketball sense and that he's okay with as a destination.
- [07:24]
Bobby Marks
Well, I wrote 11 teams and. But then we can just start eliminating teams because I don't see like. And 11 teams are really like who has the most to. Right. Like who has stuff whether it be picks or players. You know, I think we can take San Antonio off. I don't see them doing anything, you know, with Fox and I think they're going to go through the playoffs and see where they are. Almost like what Houston did and then did a Durant trade and see where this young team is. You know, Oklahoma City is not going to go out there and trade like six first round picks for Yada. Yeah, that's just not in their DNA. But I do think when we look at Golden State has certainly been mentioned here and that's, that's a, you know, swing for the fences. This is the last haraf of Curry when you are. Look, and I know Mike Dunleavy said that, you know, he wouldn't trade Jimmy Butler, but listen, if Giannis becomes available, like we think he is right now, you're looking at Golden State with Butler, you're looking at Kaminga, you. They have all their picks, which are four. They have some swaps in there, they've got some younger players. So if you're Golden State, you can try to basically throw the kitchen sink. Now the, the ending will be not pretty as, you know, like when Curry's not on this roster two or you know, like whatever happens to this, those picks are, that are not going to be great here. But I do think if you're Golden State, you could basically throw the kitchen sink at them and see if, if that's what Milwaukee wants to do there. You know, we've, we've heard about Miami. Of course they've got two firsts. I think the one thing Ryan, now we're learning more as we over the last couple days is that what Milwaukee is trying to do is say, all right, we like that guy, but can you turn him into two or three first? We like Tyler Herro, but can you turn him into something other than what we can get? You know, certainly if you're in New York, the same thing. If you, you know, we like Mikhail Bridges who can be traded as of February 1st, but can you trade him into 2 or 3 first or something else down the road that gets. That's hard to try to do in the, in the next week here, but with, with Miami they're likely probably not going to do anything with Bam. Then you're looking at hero to first, some of the younger players. Minnesota is another team that's been mentioned. They got no first. So who of the core of your roster besides Edward Remove? Edwards. When you're looking at Randall, Ed Gobert, you know, McDaniels, Steven Ch, you know, like it starts, you start taking away, you know, players there, here and that's. I think people get confused that the trade deadline is like the halfway point of the season. Like that. No, it's not. Like we've got like what, like 30 games left some of these teams here. So if you're going to trade three players and then this player is not going to be healthy and yacht for Giannis until mid March, where exactly are you going to be in the standings here?
- [10:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm, I'm really like interested in what Minnesota would do and if they would get a little, a little interesting. But it's just hard because even if, even if they had their picks right, because they still owe what, three picks, I think in the Gobert deal. I was looking at it this morning.
- [10:32]
Bobby Marks
And the Dealers, Gillingham, the Dillingham one too, which is, I mean Tim, I mean Tim is one of the best. Connolly and, but that's backfired on him. You know the Dillingham draft night trade where they sent an unprotected. I think there's a pick swap in there too to, to San Antonio.
- [10:48]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Because I think on the Go Bear deal, it's, it's straight up 26, it's a swap in 27 and then the 29 is their own, but it's, it's still top five particular Utah, I think. So again, I'm not going to bog everybody down with this because even when I go through it sometimes in the morning I'm like, wait, you read that five minutes ago and you thought it was something else. But the Minnesota picks just aren't going to be. You would think they wouldn't be even if they had them. So it's a pointless exercise. But like you're trying to bet on, if you're Milwaukee, you're trying to bet on who you think is going to be terrible in three years. Right. And you know, whether or not there's any version of this where they can get control of their picks back like Brooklyn did with Houston. But then again, they're giving up a Phoenix pick and who knows what. Like, and this can really change quickly in 12 months. Like some of those Phoenix picks this summer you're looking at those going, man. Man, that could.
- [11:45]
Bobby Marks
Right? Those are tools. I mean, it's like you're getting those picks from Phoenix and you're like, I mean, like, we're gonna get something really good here, man. Like, this is gonna be. And now you have a Phoenix team that's competing for not even a play in, like, a top six in the west and everything. And now that picks in the 20s, you know, late teens.
- [12:02]
Ryan Rosillo
20S, exactly. And that's, you know, just always a good reminder of how hard this is. But that's. I think if you're horsed and you're his staff, you're going, okay, if we have to do this, like, which picks are really interesting, and the fact that Golden State owns all of their picks other than in 20, 30. It's a top 20.
- [12:23]
Bobby Marks
Yeah, they have. So they can. They can be. It's basically, you're trading the bottom half of it, right? Washington gets 21 to 30. You have 1 to 20, which is actually probably the better one that you would want there, because that could potentially be there. I think the other thing, too, Ryan, with Golden State is. And people are saying, what are we going to do with Jimmy Butler in Milwaukee? Well, you rehab him and then you try to flip him again at the deadline next year if he's healthy. I think that that would. I know it's a big number and everything, but I think that would be the goal if. If you went down that road, or you maybe just say, hey, we're going to punt. We're going to punt into the off season. Let's see where teams are picking in the lottery. Let's revisit here the one team that I'm hearing a lot about, that people have talked about, just because as we talk about value picks, is Atlanta. Right? So Atlanta's got that New Orleans first. They actually have the most favorable of New Orleans or Milwaukee. It's going to be probably New Orleans here. I don't see that pick in play. I don't see Atlanta going out and trading Giannis for that. Trading that pick for Giannis. I've seen a bunch of stuff out there. I just don't see that happening, you know, right now in February.
- [13:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you make an argument of all the things flying around, that could be the single most valuable asset because of this draft class. And then Milwaukee could argue, hey, if we're a mess here in 26, like, we're going to get that pick, we're going to have our own pick, which they're involved in all the Swap language. So they could end up theoretically. I mean, couldn't they? Well, they're not going to get the pick. You just, you just shot it down. But let's say that pick were in play. Couldn't Milwaukee then actually end up with number one and number two? With the way the swap language works? It could, yeah, but it's not going to happen. You just, you just said it's not. And the reason that pick is so valuable, the only way you would do.
- [14:12]
Bobby Marks
I, I don't even think Atlanta would do this is if you just protect it. Right. Like you, like we're going to trade it and it's going to be protected. Top two, Right. So if. God, if it falls in the top two, we're going to keep it. And then. Then you got to figure out what else is going to, you know, what else are you going to, you know, what's conditionally going to be sent if it doesn't convey.
- [14:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you think Portland plays any role in this, considering the swap rights that they have with Milwaukee?
- [14:38]
Bobby Marks
I think Portland plays a big role in this. I mean, I don't think as a destination for Giannis, but I think as a destination as a third team, as a facilitator here, where you remember Portland has the right to swap with Milwaukee in 28 and 30. 30. And then they have their f. Their. They have its complicated language in 29. It's like the most and least favorable of. Of Boston, Milwaukee and their own here. So they basically control the back end of. The back end of the first. The of the draft picks of what Milwaukee owes. Milwaukee can't control their first until 31 because next year is actually going to New Orleans. I think it's like, I think it's an unprotected to. To New Orleans here that Atlanta potentially could get if it's. If it falls out of the top four, it's like. So, yeah, I do think Portland. I think Portland plays a big role in this year because I think if you're Milwaukee, you're saying, how do I get control of my first back? Similar to what Brooklyn did with Houston. Now that has kind of backfired a little bit with the Nets. We'll see what happens in. In. In. In May and June here because it hasn't turned out to be as great as what they thought it is. But when you do have control of your own first, you can do a lot of. You can do a lot of different things with your roster.
- [15:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Because there's an argument if you're Portland and you're going, okay, so. And then sometimes I think you have to look at like, okay, new ownership coming in for an office. Do we need to do something a little bold here, something that immediately pays some kind of basketball dividends? So are we getting an asset here that makes sense for this roster right now as they're fighting for the play in and feeling like, hey, we're taking an organizational step forward. Right. So you've got to factor in some of that stuff too. Like how important is like 26 for some front offices versus other front offices based on these other.
- [16:34]
Bobby Marks
Here's like a hypothetical example. Okay, so let's say if New York is the team, right? Let's say the Knicks are the team for, for Giannis and they can figure out a framework. If you're in Portland, you're going to come in, you say, you know what, we're going to give you all your picks back, but this is what we want from New York, Right? Like we want Bridges or we want og, Right. We want, we want another big wing to pair with Denny. And you know, you pick on our roster what you're looking for. So I think that's where, when you're looking at like frameworks of deals as far as what Portland could get back, it's basically the player or players that Milwaukee says, you know what, we really like them, but they don't fit the timeline as far as where our roster is right now.
- [17:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. And then if you really want to start playing out hypotheticals, you're like, do you worry if Brunson's still the number one option if they're able to bring in Scoot Henderson?
- [17:26]
Bobby Marks
Yeah.
- [17:27]
Ryan Rosillo
So, you know, there you go. All right. That was a joke for the Scoot Henderson fans out there.
- [17:31]
Bobby Marks
We haven't seen Scoot. Yeah, we haven't seen him yet, man.
- [17:35]
Ryan Rosillo
No, Little, little worried about where his minutes will be when he comes back from this hamstring thing, but still, you know, we'll see. The new era of UFC on Paramount plus continues. Live from Australia. Featherweight champ Alexander Volkanovski. He is an animal. Defends his belt at home in an explosive rematch against Diego Lopez. You gotta be Kennedy. And the always dangerous Dan Hooker throws downward with powerhouse Ben Wasington knee in a high action lightweight showdown. There's never been anything like this. UFC 325, Saturday, January 31 Only on Paramount plus this is a very slow deadline. I know we've said that in the past, but you, you have some stuff out there which I also think speaks to kind of the second April it's like, oh, it's second April. Second April. And it's like, well, that's not entirely true. I think some people are going to say, well, everybody's kind of caught up in this Giannis thing. I don't necessarily think that's true. I think leading up to this, I don't know if it's going to be like the Bogdanovich headline trade deadline that we had a couple years ago. We're like, yeah, and Alice, this might.
- [18:41]
Bobby Marks
Be the key on ellis trade.
- [18:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [18:45]
Bobby Marks
11 teams interested, someone willing to give it first. I'm like, okay, come on.
- [18:50]
Ryan Rosillo
So. So if we agree on some of these factors and I'd like you to share that trade total thing. Yeah. Kind of, you know, shoots down that this is only about the second apron. Like, why do you think it's so slow?
- [19:02]
Bobby Marks
Yeah, I mean, you go back and you look at the numbers we had in 20, the first year of this new CBA, we had 27. And last year trades. Last year we had 25, including, you know, the big names, right. Luca and Fox and Butler, those were big contracts that were traded here. Now we're at one, the Trey Young trade going into the last week of the deadline. I will say that when you study what's happened, 80% of deals happen the week of the deadline. So there, there likely will be a influx of trades coming. I think the market for what could have been for Anthony Davis or John Morant, not there. The two injured guys that we had thought could be potentially tradable, I think those will be probably revisited in the off season here for both guys. When you look at the teams that are monopolizing all the first round picks, again, we've got seven teams that have 50% of tradable first round picks. When you're looking at Brooklyn and Utah and Oklahoma City, Charlotte, you know, which is a great story in itself, basketball wise, Utah is in that mix that's holding a lot of things up. The other thing too is that there were a lot of teams out there that we thought could be sellers that have actually played pretty good basketball. Philadelphia, for example, they've got all those guys like if, if this was a year ago, they're probably looking to trade Quentin Grimes or Kelly Oubre. Those guys can help them right now. Same with Phoenix. Like, Phoenix is a good story right now. They're not going to, they're look to trade guys that can actually help their, their roster right now. So I, I do think it's a, as I said, it's a, it's a slower market. A lot of people want to blame the apron. As far as that, I say, well, look, a year ago, we were able to move a lot of money with, you know, $50 million players and still be able to. To match contracts.
- [21:00]
Ryan Rosillo
If we go through some of these other teams, you know, Cleveland's been a little bit better here lately. I think overall, it's the most expensive team. And it's. It's arguably based on who they've been, the money they put in on the whole, like, look, they're not below.500 necessarily, but, like, there's stretches where you go, okay, and I did this with Austin already, so I don't need to cover, like, Cleveland being this huge disappointment here. But, you know, you wonder if they just play it out this year or if. And, you know, you hear certain things, like, I try not to overstate this stuff because I think it gets overstated constantly. Like when you say, hey, you hear Garland's available, It's like, well, look, most everyone is available in some version of this. I just wonder how aggressive Kobe Alton would be before this deadline. Or think like, hey, if we can just get everybody kind of back and it's this east, we're not afraid of anybody. Even though they've had, I would say, disappointing. I think last year's an incredibly disappointing playoff run. Even if they're still losing this Pacers team that takes off, you hear about them, but it's. It's a lot of expensive guys. That. And with the Garland injury, I just don't know what the market would be for him, considering this is two injuries now.
- [22:08]
Bobby Marks
No, you're right. I mean, there's part of you that says, well, maybe they should try to get their books in order now, not wait till the summer. And then there's the other part of you.
- [22:17]
Bruce Feldman
Wait a minute.
- [22:17]
Bobby Marks
Like, we're all in kind of. Let's figure out. Let's see where this roster goes. You watch, the more you watch Jaylen Tyson, who's been really good for them, you're like, thinking, well, maybe DeAndre Hunter now becomes expendable and he's got this year next year. But that's still a guy making 22, $3 million, right? So, like, are you want to trade him, like, to the Lakers and get an expiring contract? But then you're like, wait, that might diminish what we can. You know, him coming off the bench for a six man. You look at Alonzo, who's got a $10 million team option for next year, well, you're like wait, we could just do that in the off season. We don't have to wait now. Does it make sense trading him saving 70, 80 million dollars this season? I don't, I don't. Unless your owner says you just got to start cutting costs. But I do think, I think it's, you know, listen, we talked about Giannis, you know them is basically the why the second apron came into play. Because of high spending teams, the inability to aggregate. They would basically have to trade like three guys out to be able to get a $50 million player here. So I think, I think for Cleveland, yeah, I think you're looking to see maybe there's some marginal. You might just convert your two way player and that's your roster spot 15 and you call it a day here. But I do, like I thought there's more of a sense of urgency with this group. I think we saw it in Philly with those two games. I think we saw a Laker team. That's when they let go of the rope. They let go of the rope and some of these games here with the Lakers. So it's hard for me to say that Cleveland's going to go out and make some cost cutting moves because I do think they're all in this group.
- [23:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Is there a move out there for the Lakers that makes sense? Like what would you be trying to do if you were the GM right now?
- [24:01]
Bobby Marks
My goodness, the, the ultimate two timeline team. Right. I mean it's, it's. You got one pick in your pocket, you got 60, 45 million in expiring contracts, you're waiting for Austin Reeves to come back. This is probably the last hurrah of LeBron. I mean I, I wouldn't be afraid to give up salary cap space for next year. I think if I'm from the Lakers, I don't think cap space means as much in the 26 offseason. Just because I don't think it's a great free agent class. It's a lot of older players. I think the top of the class is a lot of older players here. But I am, listen, I am probably trying to. Everyone wants wings these days. I mean everyone. When I was in the Nets front office, we all wanted a wing too. I mean it hasn't, the theme has, has stayed consistent here. I would, I would try to parlay the Vincent Cleaver contracts into something even if that has another year left contract next year. How do I see my first that I can trade? I think at 31 or 32, I think I would I think I would consider it, but it has to be something that it's not just going to be a guy on a flyer. I mean, Hunter in Cleveland has been mentioned, but that doesn't, I don't know, for another year at $22 million. I don't, I don't think that that does it for me.
- [25:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, and he's had a really disappointing year even in. If I understood the Hunter acquisition is as expensive as it was a year ago. Because at the time I was like, okay, it makes sense. I understand. I was like, man, you know, their owner's signing off on this, like, hey, can we add a fifth guy that costs this much? And he's not even their fifth guy right now. So.
- [25:37]
Bobby Marks
Well, even like Michael, like, you know, Michael Porter Jr. You know, certainly hear a lot about him in Brooklyn because he's having a good year. And I do get worried when players basically put up career numbers on a bad team, like for the Lakers or Golden State or some of these other teams. It's like, are we willing to give up a first for a player that's got another year left? Do we have to extend him? What do we got to do with him? Make him 39, $40 million? That's a hard question there.
- [26:08]
Ryan Rosillo
He's been awesome and you knew he was going to put up numbers. But it's even more than just the opportunity. The fact that the volume and the efficiency goes up, which usually is not a combination that you see a ton. That's kind of why like the Counte George story has been so incredible, is that, oh, he went from kind of like an inefficient mid volume guy to like the number one option. And he's been incredible. Maybe that's just because I've got to see him up close here the second game because he didn't play in the first game when I've been out here in Utah. But The Michael Porter Jr. One, the pricing, if I'm doing this and I'm thinking, okay, is somebody who's been generally like not as good as I had hoped he would be. And granted he's had the injuries. He had the injury red flags coming out of the draft, it seemed like Denver, a pretty smart organization, a bunch of really good players, they were totally over him. And like, that's the stuff I'd still be thinking about. As great as this year had been, the stock prices of some of these players in the moment, you're like, hey, are we talking about a player right now whose all time stock price has never Been higher. Like, I actually don't want to pay that price for him in some kind of transaction. And you can say the same thing about like how bad the value can be on certain players that they're worse. Like, I'm not saying, like, hey, I want to go get job because the value's never been lower. But that has to be something internally. Like the smarter teams are going, yeah, we might be desperate a little bit and he's been terrific. But are we buying the best version that we've ever seen over 40 plus games as opposed to multiple years where that's probably still who he is with us as a non number one option? Yeah.
- [27:43]
Bobby Marks
I mean, and that's, it's like, it's the same thing like when you talk to teams about Anthony Davis, right? Like it's, it's. Of course there's the injury part of it, but the one question I've always, I've gotten from multiple teams, like, what do we, what do we got to pay him?
- [27:57]
Kyle
Right?
- [27:57]
Bobby Marks
Like, what's the next contract? Ja's a little bit different because he's got two years left and he's. But he's probably going to want an extension this summer. Porter Jr. Is going to want an extension. He's extension eligible in the off season here. Davis is extension eligible. That's, that's like, what is the number that you know that you're comfortable? It's not 275 or it's not $60 million a year, but what's the number that fits in? And as you said with like Porter, it's like, all right, you're going from option number one now you're going to go to a team that maybe you're back to where you were in Denver, right? Maybe you're the third option or the fourth option.
- [28:33]
Ryan Rosillo
So no market for AD right now.
- [28:35]
Bobby Marks
I don't, I wouldn't say no market. I would say the. Probably no market to what Dallas is looking for. I think if you wanted to just try trade him for expirings and then cut bait, I think you probably could try to do something like that. I think if you're, I think if you're Dallas, I think it'll be interesting if they don't do anything, which I don't think with him, I think they'll do some minor stuff. You come into the off season, you got Kyrie still, right? I don't think we'll probably see Kyrie this year just because. Why, why should you? You probably want to get as good of a Pick as he. As you can. What do you do with him? Do you. Do you look to extend ad but at a considerably lower number.
- [29:15]
Bruce Feldman
Right.
- [29:16]
Bobby Marks
Is the writing on the wall that you're trying to kind of cash in with with him here. But I, I think that takes in. I think that discussion goes into the off season.
- [29:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Ja.
- [29:28]
Bobby Marks
I don't see it. I know he's been. I know he's. Now he's got the shoulder. I know he was good in London and I know he's had a couple good games when he came back. I just don't see a. Now if you want to go the Trey Young route and try to just get expirings back and stuff like that. As far as what Atlanta did, I mean, like, how are you selling that to. You know, it's unbelievable how much beloved he is by that fan base there. Like, they love him in Memphis and everything like that. Try selling that to your, to your. To your fan base and everything like that. So I, I don't see it with, with jaw right now as far as getting something done.
- [30:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. The reason why Atlanta was able to do it, because it's an incredibly popular guy and Trey, I mean, it's. It. They're. They're very easy parallels between John Memphis and Trey and Atlanta. And I don't, I don't think anybody should really disagree because I've seen enough of it, right. I've seen enough of like the support over the years of like, how Atlanta fans thought everybody was wrong about Trey all the time. Or at least maybe the ones that would. That would voice their opinion on the whole thing. But because they had Jalen already in place, right? And some of the other pieces in the roster, and they have this New Orleans pick which, like, if this ends up being Darren Peterson, you know, or A.J. you're just like. So there are things in place where Atlanta fans could probably go, CJ McCollum and Kispert for our guy. You know, like, I bought. I bought all my kids jerseys of this guy in Christmas. You know, this is our guy. We're on the other side from Memphis. You've already moved Bane. And, and by the way, I think Memphis's front office has done an incredible job with all of these. These different players. Like, they roll out a lot of guys that rotationally, I'm like, they've done an awesome job, but the problem is the stars. And clearly they love the pricing on the Bain part of it. They go, all right, you know what? Like, we like Bain, we killed it with him. They Did a great job. Remember that was the Celtics trade that night of draft night where they identified him late in the first round. They pick him. So you could say like, well, Jalen Johnson, can't you just say the same thing with Jaren Jackson? And I like Jaren Jackson. I feel like I still like him more than other people do. But I, I wonder if a Jaw deal means that it's the full tear down or if. Or if there's a Jaren move without Jaw. So Atlanta had some things in place where as bad as the. I just couldn't believe it at the time. It's like this guy was traded for C.J. mcCollum and Corey Kisper. Like that's what you got. It was easier I think for Atlanta to handle something that was pretty glaring about what their guy was worth. Where it's probably not going to go over as well if you were to do the same thing with Shaw. I almost feel like you can't do it there.
- [32:19]
Bobby Marks
Yeah, agree. I mean, you know, Jaron Jaren is interesting. It's, it's funny. I like Jaren Jackson Jr. A lot on a 24, $24 million deal and a $35 million deal and then that number goes to 50 next year. It's a big number. You know the Reno, the. We saw it with, you know, with Sabonis, you know, the guys that do renegotiation, take cap space, booster number and then extend out those numbers get big, like really big here and but as you said, like they've done a good job in Memphis with the Coward. I really like who we were. Like the ultimate wild card this, this coming into the draft and everything like that. And if, if you are looking to move guys and if it was Ja, what does it mean to Jaren Jackson who as I said is, you know, he's on a 35 million dollar contract and that number jumps up to 50 over the next four. Next four years.
- [33:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I don't think you're going to get, I mean that's the first thing you're doing is you're arguing against that. You're going like, hey, I don't have to give you four in a swap for him because, because that number is massive. But I still like Jaren. I, I like him a lot and it's just such a, a mess down there. Do you think Houston need. Because when I watch Minnesota, I'll go like, okay, they need to figure out like which guard here is available. Right? Yeah. Houston, the overall offensive numbers, they were third on offense. I think with the new numbers after last night getting their ass kicked by the spurs, it's fourth. But then I look at clutch, and the offense is at 20th, which is what my eyes tell me when I watch them. Durant just had a miserable time there, just being like, hey, KD, here's the ball, 30ft away from the hoop, and now we're going to have Castle riding you and Wemby help defense. Like, you know, you can hate Durant. That's not fun for anybody out there. And their net rating in clutch time is even worse. They're, like, almost minus 10. There's a couple other teams that are actually good that have, like, a weird. So sometimes you can look at the clutch stuff and say, whatever. But when it's 20 plus games and my eyes tell me the exact same thing as the numbers, like, hey, really nice overall offense. But when it comes down to those playoff moments, do you have someone that's going to make it easier on you? And I think the same thing could be said of Minnesota as well. And this is where the fret injury crushes them. But I don't know. I mean, this kind of gets to the Chicago thing. I think they have five expirings, and when I looked at it, they were 23 and 23, five expirings playing in the play. And I'm like, chicago couldn't be more Chicago. Every single year they got eight free agents. Maybe it was five expirings that there'd probably be some interest in. But it's like, now they're probably fine. They'll go 41 and 41 and then losing the play, and it'd be like, yeah, we did it. We. We stayed true to our culture. We just could run it back next year. There's obviously the complications on all the math stuff of it, but you wonder if Houston goes. I know what one number says, but, man, it seems hard for us without any kind of playmaking. And the same thing. You can run Ant on a curl, you can run them off the ball, but we know exactly what it's going to look like there. And that OKC series for Ant, I don't look at that as like, oh, we have to reevaluate who Ant was. That was a miserable experience going. You're going to be the head of the snake, and we're going to attack you every single time, and that's how you're going to be looking at this stuff. If you're those teams who you think, like, hey, if things break right, like, maybe we have A little bit of a run in our west. But what feels like a real flaw. And then it's like, so what are you asking? You're asking is there a 15 million a year, is there a $15 million salary point guard that we can have close with us in the second round of a Western Conference playoff series? It's like, well, that guy's probably not available or only costs 15 million bucks.
- [36:09]
Bobby Marks
Yeah, they're like my Waymo team, right? The card act that has no driver.
- [36:13]
Ryan Rosillo
It's great, great call.
- [36:16]
Bobby Marks
I would go after, I would, I don't. I think of my cost and them a little bit. I'd go, I'd try to go out and get Trey Jones. That's what I would try to go get in Chicago. And who's having, who's hurt right now but is having a really good year for them and it's got a modest three years, 24 million dollar contract, 8 million a year. There's a team option in the last year that like that type of like I watched Houston was in Philly last week and I'm like, this team is so just, it's just disorganized, right? There's nobody that kind of like bring it all in together here, like as far as with that group. And they, they wound up losing a big lead in that game. And then you saw last night in San Antone made a big lead and that kind of went, you know, down to tubes here. But they need a guy that can organize their offense. I think that's, that's the biggest thing, especially down the stretch, like close games, maybe not the first or second quarter, but close games to go out and do that. And they've got, listen, they got the net swap next year. I'm not saying you're going to trade up for Trey Jones, but they've got two, two Phoenix picks, they got a Dallas pick, they've got some of their own stuff down the road. They have things to go out and do it. You've got Durant on your roster. So it's not like you're saying, well we're building for the future. I know you do it. Still have a men and sengun on your, on your team. But listen, if you're trying to compete for a championship, I don't think this roster as right now, I don't think they're good enough to get through San Antonio, maybe, who knows in the playoffs. But Oklahoma City, Denver, some of these other teams here. So I do think you need to go out and try to find a Guy that can organize those are not easy to find, you know, out there.
- [38:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Chris Paul. Yeah.
- [38:02]
Bobby Marks
Calm up. Still on ice.
- [38:05]
Ryan Rosillo
It's working out every day. Ready to go. I don't know.
- [38:11]
Bobby Marks
That turned quickly in the clip land, huh?
- [38:13]
Bruce Feldman
How about that?
- [38:15]
Ryan Rosillo
It did, but I, you know, look, Austin Rivers brought it up yesterday. I don't know if people are doing this to me. I don't know that whatever Chris's influence was on the team, I don't think. I think Kawhi getting a lot better has more.
- [38:26]
Bobby Marks
Get a little bit of a soft schedule, too, part there. So it all added up. Right.
- [38:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I would have. I would have bet a lot of money that Chris would still want to just, you know, attach himself to some sort of team and be around it. And I don't know. Yeah. No, I don't know if he's gonna. I was a little bit more certain of it, and now I'm. I'm kind of. My answer would be.
- [38:47]
Bobby Marks
I would. I would say.
- [38:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if he's gonna play this year.
- [38:49]
Bobby Marks
Yeah, I don't think he'll.
- [38:51]
Bruce Feldman
I don't think.
- [38:52]
Bobby Marks
I think it'll get waived.
- [38:54]
Bruce Feldman
I mean, just.
- [38:54]
Bobby Marks
That's just my thought. He'll get waived by March 1st and he'll be eligible for the playoffs, and a team will just have to figure out if they want to bring him on for. For the stretch run.
- [39:04]
Ryan Rosillo
I like that we ended it there. You can check out all of Bobby's stuff on ESPN.com and further breakdowns. You can hang out with them on YouTube as well. It feels like you think it's going to ramp up at all or is still. I know everything always feels slow. And everybody starts to say over and over again.
- [39:22]
Bobby Marks
A year ago on a Saturday at 10 o', clock, I didn't think Luca was going to get traded, so who hell knows, right?
- [39:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but there was no. There was no third team in that. Because remember, Pelinka complimented. No, Nico complimented Pelinka on keeping it quiet so that they were able to execute this deal so quickly. And it was like. You seriously thanked Pelinka for like. No, Polinka wanted to keep it quiet. It's fine.
- [39:47]
Bobby Marks
I went through, like, real quick. I went through, as I said before, I went through all the blockbuster trades in the last two years, and then I got to the Dallas and. And then I kept. And I. I know it's been a year. And I said, is that all they got? I kept. It's like everyone else. The column is adding Right. Like pick, pick, pick, pick, pick, players, players. And then it's just two players and a pick.
- [40:10]
Ryan Rosillo
It is the all time indicator of like, what? Because it. It's not like we're doing this because we're like, hey, let's beat this subject. It organically comes up, up all the time. It comes up all the time. Every now and then, Luca will have a night and then just get a text from somebody being like, I can't believe that happened. And I can't believe it was for that. And I can't believe. And then it'll be something like the rest of our lives, those of us that are day in and day out with the NBA, there'll just be a moment years removed where you go, oh, that's right. You know, I imagine for different generations, you've got Kennedy, you've got the moon, Berlin Wall, you know, you've got these things you remember. And I'll never, ever forget exactly what I was doing. Oh, I was in that moment just like you. Yeah.
- [41:07]
Bobby Marks
I was literally sitting at the Same desk at 1:00 clock in the morning and called. After Shams broke it, I had to call him to ask him if it was actually real and if he had been hacked. And then I called David Mondras, who's one of Bill Duffy's, the main agent, but David works for wme. And I called David and I go, do you guys just get traded? He goes, what? I mean, it was like one of those surreal moments as far as for everyone.
- [41:35]
Ryan Rosillo
And Mavs fans everywhere listening to this podcast are like, hey, thanks. Thanks, guys.
- [41:42]
Bobby Marks
Yeah, we thought we had some little bit of closure, but still going.
- [41:47]
Ryan Rosillo
You're the man. Thanks, Bobby.
- [41:48]
Bruce Feldman
Thanks.
- [41:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Before we move on with the show, a quick word on the tool that keeps people's workflow tighter than my takes. Microsoft 365 copilot the world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, driving reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze and create and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more@Microsoft.com M365 copilot Bruce Feldman, the athletic Fox Sports college football guru fresh off the Senior bowl as well. So there's a bunch of different things that I want to get to here. We're in that portal, you know, kind of everybody's mad at everybody thing here. Dabo down at Clemson was super mad. What did you make of his comments about Ole Miss?
- [42:49]
Bruce Feldman
You know, Ryan, a lot of coaches will vent about stuff like this. They'll. They'll almost never go on the record. And if they ever go on the record and name names, they don't do it with like a TikTok, like blow by blow of, you know, it was like a dateline episode. His. He not only flamed Ole Miss, he got Pete Golding. He also got Pete Golding's gm, Austin Thomas, to basically throw his head coach, Pete Golding under the bus. Pete Golding only does what Pete Golding does, what Pete Golding does. As if it was like, not my fault. You know, it's. It's on the NCAA's desk. We'll see what the NCAA does after this kind of blew up. It was overall linebacker who started, who was at Cal, who had signed, was already enrolled in class. And allegedly, according to Dabo, it did not matter that he was already signed and enrolled in class and under contract that Pete Golding still went after him. And by the way, they ended up getting them. So, you know, when I talked to a few coaches over the weekend about this, what they thought of it, they loved it because they're like, nobody does anything about this. What's surprising is, you know, and this is not shocking, but it's like, you don't need to do what. What Dabo is saying Pete Golding did. Everybody, Everybody. And it's probably that close to 75 to 100% somewhere in that area and somebody on their staff. You know, they have these big bloated recruiting departments now and personnel departments that they're probably using a third party. It could be a high school coach, it could be a relative. It certainly could be those agents who have popped up, left, you know, all over the place to do this. Instead, you had a head coach actually doing. A head coach has been as dabble pointed, who's been on the job for like four weeks. So it'll be fascinating to see what the NCAA does. One of the coaches I spoke to is a head coach at the group of five level who said, you know, he loses a lot of players this way, said I would hope they would suspend him for. For some games if they find out what Dabo said is true. At the very least, it should be a really, really heavy fine. But you know what? The NCAA has always seemed to be toothless with this stuff. And who knows? I mean, maybe, maybe there is some good explanation for what what Dabo is alleging happened. And maybe it didn't quite happen the way he did say it did, but man, it created, I think it had a lot of people nodding their heads. They're like, good. Finally somebody called somebody out.
- [45:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, what can we conclude now with this Darian Mensah story where again, this is somebody who came into Duke nil. Money got him out of Tulane and Miami's in the market for a quarterback. They end up with Mensa after apparently he had, I don't know if it's the original part of the Duke, him showing up at Duke. And it was like a long term thing. Like none of us know what any of these contracts mean. These contracts may mean less than any contract in the history of sports, but then it's, there's some sort of like temporary injunction. But then it's like, okay, everybody's waiting to see if some sort of precedent is sent. And then ultimately not shocking. He is now in Miami with also his number one receiver from Duke last year.
- [46:11]
Bruce Feldman
Yeah, it's, it was kind of a par for the course story. I mean, the way I would describe it going through this is, you're right, nobody knows what's in these contracts. Nobody knows they're not real, they're not employment contracts like you or I would have, or quite honestly like what you have in the NFL or the NBA or pretty much anyplace else. They're nil contracts and how they're written. Damon Williams, the quarterback at Washington, who signed one on January 2nd and then four days later announced he was going in the portal, even though that's not really the way that process is supposed to work or does work. And then he ended up doing a 180 and Washington took him back. Now, my understanding is that contract that they had had signed with him is probably a little different than some of the other contracts. They're not all, not all the same from my understanding of it. But also if you asked an agent what the contract's for compared to if you asked the GM who probably helped do the deal on the school, they have very different understandings or feelings about what the contract is actually valued at. And what you'll see is the agents who are trying to reset the market and they're also trying to get their business further out there, which is why you'll see some of, you know, my colleagues and competitors in the reporting space, like include their, include their, you know, at so and so at young money or whatever. Like it's a way to, I don't know, it's a nod for, hey, you know, you Gave me the scoop. Like, I'll put your young money is there.
- [47:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Is that two words?
- [47:48]
Bruce Feldman
Yeah, I mean, in that case, I think they're, that's not exactly their whole handle, but it's, yeah, it's a, it's one of these agencies that has really popped up in the last couple of years. The commissions are way different than they are, you know, in terms of like, if it's 2% for an athlete, sometimes some of these places are charging between up to 20 and 30%. I mean, it's, it's, it's a, it's a nutty business that is taken off with without guardrails. And so when somebody says, oh, this guy's getting 4 million a year, and then you find out, no, it's not close to that much, the school push back. But the other, you know, the people who want 4 million out there are going to talk about all the possible incentives that could happen or all these other things, which is, you know, not typically how contracts get framed when they, when the terms come out. In the case of Mensa, you know, it was a, apparently a two year deal with Miami. What was, what was kind of crazy there is they get involved with Sam Levitt and then when Sam Levitt's on a visit, it gets leaked that they had offered Ty Simpson, the Alabama quarterback, a lot more money. And it was a reporter that they offered him 6.5 million, which is like an absurd amount of money for somebody who's not like Cam Newton or somebody who's, you know, quite honestly, like a really good quarterback. But it wasn't like, oh, yeah, you get him and he's going to be anywhere near as good as Cam Ward was when, when, when Miami got him two years ago. But when Sam Levitt heard that money, my understanding was it was like, that was a big turn off. Like, you're offering him way more than you offered me. I'm going to go play for Lane Kiffin. And so he, you know, ended up signing with lsu. You know, Miami, I think, looked at a couple other quarterbacks and they just took the quarterback who was in their own conference, who led Duke to the ACC title. I want to put that in quotes because it was such a weird, you know, setup. That's how he sees them play out. But he did and he put up good numbers. And, you know, this to me was like the latest example of like Mario Crystal Ball dunking Manny Diaz's head in the toilet. You know, it's just like I feel for Manny Diaz because he's the Old Miami coach, he grew up there, dad was the mayor, you know, did the best he could. They weren't going to fire him until Mario goes, no, I want to come home. And then at that point they, they fired him. And then he leads them to an ACC title and they spend a lot of money to get, whether they spent 3 million last year to get them or 4. It's a lot of money for Duke football. Not only that, not only do they have taken Darian Mensah, they take his best receiver and one of the best receivers in the country, Cooper Bar Kate, who had started out at an Ivy League school and then put up huge numbers last year for Duke. So Miami got both of them. They were on, on, I guess it's Tuesday night. They were, you know, at a fancy dinner in Miami on their recruiting visit. Edger and James is there, Malachi, Tony, you know, their star, Young, the stunt receiver also there. They were all on this and then those guys committed shortly thereafter. You know, there, there's a lot of legal back and forth that happened over the last, I don't know, 96 hours to get to that point where, where Duke had some kind of reached some kind of agreement with, with Mensa. But at the end of the day, I think they knew he wasn't coming back. And it's a really messy case. If you're Jim Phillips, the ACC commissioner in both of these schools, you know, it's, it's different than like with the Damon Williams thing where it was like Washington, Big Ten school, probably lsu, SEC school, the Big Ten could back them. But how much overreach did they have on the other school in this case, you know, the ACC kind of let Miami do what Miami did and you know, we'll see how it plays out for Miami in round three of getting in the portal to, to get a one year guy as a quarterback.
- [51:45]
Ryan Rosillo
So is it fair to say like no precedent really has been set then? As much as people were like looking at this case, I don't feel like maybe some of the traffic and it being held up and there was a window there of like, oh, well, maybe this.
- [51:59]
Bruce Feldman
No, I don't think there is either. Yeah, to your point, because again, the Damond Williams thing, talking to Washington sources, it was like he signed it four days before. The wild thing about that was at the time his agent also represented Jed Fish, the head coach. So it's just a really weird. He didn't use that agent in terms of like the exit strategy for, for getting out of Washington. But it is kind of strange, but not. You know, it's. It's probably more common than a lot of us realize was players who had signed contracts ended up just basically, yeah, that doesn't matter now when it comes to the tampering thing with this, because that tampering is really widespread in college athletics, and the NCAA has not been able to really do much of anything about it. I think, you know, I was talking to a lawyer that I used to work with about some of this stuff and whether. Whether the NCAA should just say, screw it, let's just categorize them as employees. And then we're not getting these weird workaround deals. But this person made the case. It's like in the free. In a free market, tampering goes on. Like, I'm sure you and I both have been under contract at one place, and somebody, either on our behalf or not, has had conversations with people from someplace else. You know, I. And I don't think that's just unique to. To sports media. I think that goes on in a. Probably in a lot of regard. Right.
- [53:25]
Ryan Rosillo
So, yeah, I mean, look, it's happened to me multiple times, and I'll never forget, like, the first time ever when the rule was the place you worked. And this is going back, like, over 15 years. Like, the rule was when your contract was up, like, 90 days out, the place you worked could start negotiations with you. Now, if you're really, really special at where you're at, they can start them whatever they want to. It doesn't matter. I was not special at ESPN during those times. And so then it was like, okay, so you get the offer if you're even lucky enough to get the offer, and then 60 days out or 45 days out, you were allowed to then, while still under contract, then get into discussions with everyone else. And the whole idea was like, if you didn't like what you got at 90, it's like, okay, I'm going to have this whole other window. And I'll never forget that for me, I got the first thing, and then I was like, well, I don't like this. So that means I have, like, 45, 60 days to figure out everything else. They were like, no, you cannot show up on Monday if you don't take this deal by the end of Friday. And from that moment on, and I think a lot of people in the business is like, you go in with the best intentions, and then you see how the world really fucking works. And I'll never forget, like, from that moment on, I was like, I'll never Ever do that or allow myself to be in that spot again. So when I hear about some of these guys, like, hey, it's tampering, or hey, it's this, like, I'm not saying it's great. It'd be cool if everybody left everybody alone. This is not the way the world works. And that's why I was going to use an example for my own thing of like, I had to get my head kicked in to go. Yeah, I guess actually people don't really follow the rules.
- [54:53]
Bruce Feldman
So I just remember like in my own, like, exit from espn, you know, when I first flew back, living in la, flew back to Connecticut, I remember like, basically not hiding out at Joe Tess's house, but I literally was at Joe Tess Boss kind of laying low, where they're like filling me up with like high quality Italian food. And then at some point I went to Sports Illustrated and a bunch of my friends work there and I felt like I was like trying to avoid them. I hung out on the floor below till it was my time to meet with like, Terry McDonald who was, was the big boss. And I was like, I got in and out of there without anybody seeing me, I think, but it was just such a weird process. I remember going to, to where is NBC's like New Haven or somewhere, like somewhere in like Stanford area. Yeah, I remember like being in a parking garage. It was just like. I don't know if I need to be like this, like stealthy. I, I don't think stealthy is probably too strong.
- [55:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. But our agents would always tell us that we had to be, because I remember it was like, oh, you can't go to dinner with that guy. Like, you'll have to go out of town. And I was like, I don't think anyone's ever going to care. Now there's some media people that get to a point where I could see that why people would care. But I think to the audience that's listening, like, wondering why there's just a part of me that in this wild, wild west, free for all, I don't know who I'm supposed to be rooting against anymore. And if you're telling me that, like, hey, once you've agreed to something with someone, you should never be engaging with anybody else, it's like, yeah, that's a nice idea. And I think more often than not, that's kind of how I'd like to say that I've operated. But I know that I'd be a total hypocrite because there's Been a few times where it was like, all right, I'll. I'll hear what you have to say. But I don't know if this is going to work out or not.
- [56:35]
Bruce Feldman
And we know coaches do it. Coaches preach commitment. And look, Lane Kiffin, those guys sending his relative, you know, his family members to Baton Rouge and Gainesville to scout out, like all this, you know, it's just, I think it's just the way this is kind of gotten to and because everything is out there on or a lot of stuff is out there on social media, it adds to it and this is just the new reality. Get used to it. It's not exactly pro sports, but it's close.
- [57:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Let's talk a little bit about Indiana because I know that you did a coach's kind of anonymous wrap up on the Athletic that I was reading this week. And I think there's a variable parallel to this a little bit where Vrabel comes in first season NFL, it's like he's in the Super Bowl. And then, and I heard the same thing with Signetti, where not only what they did last year, we're like, hey, at least Indiana's competitive. And then who cares about 24? You win a national championship, going to feed it in 25. I think it's one of the greatest stories in the history of this sport. But then it's like, okay, well these other coaches that come in, this is going to be the standard now. And you're like, fine, yeah, cool. Hey, this thing that's never happened before, could you now go do that? Like, you don't have three years, you have two because of what Signetti does. That's almost like disrespectful to what Indiana Insigniti have done. To just think like, hey, this is what the ads are going to have to say to all these guys. But if we step back from the impossible comp on this, there's talk about age. I think there's a lot of BYU fans who say, hey, we've been doing the old thing for a long time. It's not just age. I've constantly pointed out that the composite ranking of their talent based on coming out of high school, which you can be dismissive of, but when it's in the 70s and they win with that kind of team, like that again, speaks to Signetti and everything else. People talk about money beyond just the nil what Indiana did, but it's not like Indiana's outspending everyone. So yeah, maybe it's a quarterback, but there's there's far more to it. So what do you think was like a very consensus thought about what this Indiana story means for other programs that look to them as some kind of just an example of hope?
- [58:42]
Bruce Feldman
Yeah, I think there's two big themes, Ryan. The first one that came up a bunch was when and this is from other coaches who are looking honestly from the outside looking in. I don't know if we had anybody who was like, who had spent time inside the Indiana program over the last years. It was all guys who may know Signetti but they or may know some guys in their staff. But it's just, they're, they're observing it and one of the, the first big thing was the don't get sucked into what the star ratings say about recruiting. Now he had the benefit of being in this cycle where there is nil, but there is a portal. So he could bring you know, 13 guys with him from a really good James Madison program that he had before that. So he had guys who, he knew what they could do. He had guys who could help re establish the culture there or establish the culture but also when he evaluated. And this is a guy who had spent a long time, you know, first, you know, he was at one point he was a recruiting coordinator for Chuck Amato at NC State. I remember back in those days and Chuck Amato would come from Florida State. You know, I think he'd seen, been around a lot of coaches who had been in big programs. I mean Florida State, he had a bunch of Florida State staff guys he worked around at NC State and then obviously was with Nick Saban. When Nick Saban first got it rolling at Alabama. And so I think he had a very fully formed opinion on what he thinks good college football players at every position need to be or need to have or need to do. And I think so one of the coaches I know who we talked to for this last week who has been a power forehead coach was like it's easy, it's very easy to get sucked into your fan base. Getting caught up in the momentum of getting a four star or whatever. Maybe you take the kid who was, was pretty highly recruited out of high school, didn't really do anything his first two years in college. You grab him, you know, maybe it's like, you know, like you can pump some new life into him or whatever and then you find out eh, he wasn't all that good. He's, you know, he's, he doesn't have the work ethic, he's not football smart, whatever that like was holding him back coming out of high school. That's showing up for you. Now it's actually dragging you down. With Signetti, it's none of that. And, you know, the best way I said. I said to this guy, when we were talking about it, he was like, he does not care what anybody else thinks about a player. You know, their evaluations really do not matter, especially the ones, you know, whether it's 2, 4, 7 or on 3 or whoever. He doesn't care about those. And so I said, he always struck me as like the big. I don't. And the guy finished. He goes, yeah, Kurt Signetti does not give a fuck. It's all about what he thinks. And his evaluations. And his evaluations are obviously really good, you know, because you can see it. I don't think anyone, including the guys at Cal, thought Fernando Mendoza was going to be anywhere near as good as he was this year. Right. And so, you know, credit to. Also, Signetti hired Chandler Whitmer from the NFL, who'd been a good quarterback coach, and. And I think knows how to take somebody maybe to the next level.
- [61:55]
Ryan Rosillo
And.
- [61:56]
Bruce Feldman
And Signetti has a really, really good staff. He has two terrific coordinators, and he has a lot of good assistant coaches. And the other big piece of it ties into that, which is they're as fundamentally sound as any team in the country and what they do. And again, coaches watching the. Watching the playoff from their couches could see a lot of stuff that maybe you or I or the fans would miss on, in terms of whether it's line play or how a receiver runs, starts to run a route, and then goes in to crack a db. All these little detail stuff that most of us miss, they're really good at. And as a lot of people have told us, the. The fundamentals and the detail stuff matters now more than it ever has, because these teams are all thrown together in a short cycle of time. So the offensive lines aren't as good, that the players don't play together as well. It's way more individualized because you just don't have as much time around all the other guys that you did, you know, before, when it was more of a developmental thing, you know, Kirby Smart could have guys who had four years in the system before they would terrorize TCU in the national title game. Yeah, they're wildly talented, but I think there was enough about this is how we do stuff, you know, and that's not the way it is anymore. Right. And I think Signetti and his staff, he put a Premium on that. Let's get the guys we feel like we believe in, who get it, who want to be here, who are going to bust their ass. And we're not going to just say, hey, we're going to limit what we give you. We're gonna put as much on your plate as you can as we can think you can handle. And I know that from talking to guys on their staff over the last, you know, month or so that it's like we're going to challenge them because we have, like you said, Ryan, they have older players who are more mature. You know, there's other teams that have old players. By the way, Miami wasn't that, you know, Malachi, Tony aside, Miami had a lot.
- [63:55]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm glad you said that too because I mean, it's turned into like, you know, again, if you want to be dismissive of the Indiana thing and I just don't know how you can do it in 25. It's like, I think it's a little bit more than just a few guys are old. I mean, I think there was what, four, six year guys, four five year guys. I mean, it's not littered with freshman.
- [64:13]
Bruce Feldman
Runner Charlie Becker's young. They have guys, they have some guys who are younger players. Mario Landino was a sophomore.
- [64:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Sophomore.
- [64:22]
Bruce Feldman
Yeah. I think when you look though towards that example about it ain't just Indiana. Tony Elliott, the head coach of Virginia, had finally a breakthrough season. He had one of the most mature teams in the country, had a bunch of grad students, bunch of fifth and sixth year guys. Like the offense was almost all of it right. And that helps. It can make a difference, especially when the margin for error is, is not that big with some of these teams. And I just think it factored into it now. It's a little bit of catching lightning on bottle because again, not all coaches evaluate at the same level. I think Signetti's got a gift for that. I think he's got a gift for also seeing, you know, the, the players, but also the coaches who's really good at what he does, you know, like his DB coach was a guy, you know, was an analyst for. James Franklin, was in the NFL on the Broncos staff, but he like got to start out at SUNY College Courtland, you know, and as a guy who's just a really good DB coach and you could see like, I think there's just a lot of, a lot of really smart hires he made in putting this staff together.
- [65:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Because there was another note too. It was like, you know, where he is in Bloomington with it being Indiana with this cycle, he doesn't have to deal with a lot of recruiting bullshit that other fan bases are going to be on your case about. And then I started thinking about how good of a point it was because you'll hear about, you'll ask a team maybe a year later be like, hey, why did you take that guy? Or why? He was like, we had to take this guy because if we didn't take this guy from this high school, then that high school coach was going to cut us off from the next classes. Five star defensive end. So there was a bit of horse trading here where we have to keep the relationship, we have to keep this high school program happy and they've got all these different guys. And I started thinking like, oh yeah, because Signetti doesn't have to deal with any of it. And then I, I kept thinking about it, I go, you know what, I'm actually not going to feel bad for the other school. It's like, yeah, for us to get access to all these southern kids who are five stars, we have to take another guy here. It's like, you know, I actually think more coaches would be okay with. Sure, there's a lot of absurd things that you're dealing with at SEC schools, at some of the other southern schools that aren't SEC schools because of just how obsessed the high school football part of it is. But I'd also like, if I'm signeting, like, oh, you know, you poor guys like you in your home recruiting backyard, you have to deal with a little bit more of the soap opera than we have to. But you also have all of these kids in your backyard and we're in Indiana, so.
- [66:51]
Bruce Feldman
Well, they also get a benefit of this. I don't think they get have to deal with much of the entitlement and the BS that can come with, hey, you got a four or five star kid. So all of a sudden now what did you have to do to get him? Did you pay him? Did you pay this linebacker 500 grand? Well, he may not be ready to play, but now you're paying him 500 grand. What's he going to ask for next year? I've talked to, you know, over in the winter, I ended up having conversations with coaches at, at big blue blood schools that are playoff and national title threats almost every year. And one of the, one of the things that they've kind of starting to figure out is we are in this weird little recruiting conundrum of, yeah, you still want those guys who are elite athletes. Because typically, Ryan, as you know, the guys who become five stars are not guys. They're traits guys. Right? They're guys who are. I'm not saying they're going to be Calvin Johnson, but they're ideally in that kind of like size, speed, you know, going to test off the charts and everything. They're not guys who are development guys, and sometimes, not always, but sometimes those guys, because they have had people kissing their ass for. Since they're in ninth grade. You know, that comes with some entitlement. And now all of a sudden it's like, how are they fitting in? Are you going to be ready? Like, there's not a lot of freshmen or true freshmen. You know, Malachi, Tony is a. Is something of a unicorn. He was. Should be a high school senior. I mean, not only could he handle it all as a, as a. In his first year in college football, like, they put a ton on his plate. Most kids are not. 99.9% of college football players are not that way. And so you get, with. You get a lot of other drama that comes with it. And I think that Indiana, I don't want to say they're exempt from it because of how their structures set up, but I think that's largely the case. Instead, the flip side is they got the guy who played in the powerhouse high school program in South Florida, but they got the guy in d' Angelo Pons who nobody wanted because they're like, yeah, you're five, eight and a half. We can't take you. Yeah, we see you. We see you dealing with Jeremiah Smith and all these other elite receivers, Division 1 receivers at your high school every day in practice. But I can't bring you back to my, to my head coach because you're five, eight and a half. And so now, you know, Signetti takes him and you got this kid with this massive chip on his shoulder who's super competitive, and he ends up being the MVP in like, two different playoff games, you know, and like, so that's what you get. Because I think, and I'm not saying he has a bunch of five, eight or undersized guys, but I think he has a lot of guys who have a big chip on their shoulder instead of the, instead of the, you know, the entitlement of, like, yeah, I, I should get this. You have guys who want to, want to bust the ass of the guy who, who is across from. Because they know that's what they got.
- [69:39]
Ryan Rosillo
As you get through the Senior bowl and ramping up some of the Draft coverage. You are always excellent on this kind of hybrid thing of what NFL teams are asking about your NFL contacts and then mixing that in with the college contacts, they're telling you what some of the NFL teams are thinking. Are there a couple like non consensus players that you think all of us need to have on our radar now as opposed to just kind of all the, the names that we've seen associated with the first round mocks?
- [70:09]
Bruce Feldman
Yeah, I think there's a bunch like you know, obviously Senior bowl, their practice is going on, you can watch it on. No NFL Network does a good, really good job with it or whatever. Like I, I the benefit of, because I do that freaks list every year of talking to a lot of coaches at all levels about this stuff and getting some good intel from them. You know, there's a guy at Georgia State, Sunbelt program, Ted Hurst who I think is going to blow up this week. I mean in the first day of practice he had like the best, he had this crazy one handed catch in the red zone. You know, you're talking about a guy who's over 6 3, who's like a broad, jumps almost 11ft. Again, did not play at a great program. But I think he's one of these guys that probably, if he had had another year, I think SEC schools would have offered him a ton of money. Miami probably would have offered him a ton of money. You know, so I, I think that's the fun process of you see guys who maybe you heard the name but you haven't really seen them play and now all of a sudden they're starting to blow up. They're starting to get, you know, people are starting to buzz about them a little bit. I know you're going to hear a lot that you know, after Mendoza, this is a really bad quarterback class and it does seem like it's underwhelming for sure. But I think it's going to be interesting to see a lot of, a lot of edge guys. And what's different Ryan this year than most? If you look at, you know, Dane Brugler or Daniel Jeremiah, their top 50s are the first round. It's not like oh, half the first round is from the SEC anymore. It's like there's probably a couple more Big Ten guys in SEC. There's a bunch of guys from the Big 12 in the ACC. You know, you got a, you got Utah guys, Texas Tech guys in there who are probably going to be first round picks. And then in the ACC you certainly have like three Miami guys who could go in the top 20. But you have. As bad as they were this year, there'll be a bunch of Clemson guys. I mean, again, they played in the frigging Pinstripe bowl, but there are good players there that I think you're going to see. And, you know, it's going to be fascinating to see who really emerges. But like, you know, look at Ohio State. I know they won the national title last year and they could have four guys go really high, including three off the defense, both linebackers, you know, and just to circle back on freaks for a second. So Sunny Stiles, the guy a lot of people think will be a top 10 pick, I mean, he's 6 4. He's like a crazy looking athlete. Looks like he would create him in a lab who's going to jump 40 inches and can run like a. Like a wide receiver. Arvell Reese was a guy I did not have on my freaks list the day after, maybe the day it came out. James Laurinitis, you know, hall of fame, college hall of Famer, you know, great linebacker at Ohio State. And the linebacker coach was like. And a guy I've known for a while, he guilted me into it. Like, what are you thinking? And I was like, you know, I talked to guys there who said, you know, your strength coach didn't, you know, put him out there or whatever. And by like the third game, he had already blown up. Where I remember talking to some Big Ten assistants were like, I don't know if Caleb Downs actually the best player on the defense. It's Reese. He's really that good. And he's a guy who could be the second pick in the draft. And I think you're only going to hear more and more of him and Styles and obviously Downs over the next couple of months.
- [73:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, the SEC thing is really interesting because I've been going back like a month or so when it first dawned on me because of the shift of the conversation of like where the SEC is now and they're just not. They don't have the results. It's not just about three national championships coming out of the Big Ten. There's other results there too, where you're like, all right, like, where, where is this conversation? And. And I don't think people have picked up on it yet because I think the first Mel Kuiper ranking I looked at McCoy out of Tennessee was the highest ranked SEC player that he had, and that was around 15 or 16. And then I hit up McShay and I was like, do you have zero top 10 players from the SEC. And your first mock. He's like, I haven't done the first mock yet. There was another mock. It might have been Danes, I'm not sure. But I didn't see anyone in the SEC in the top 10. I was like, this thing's going to blow up. And then Daniel Jeremiah had Mansour. He had him fifth.
- [74:11]
Bruce Feldman
Surprise me a little. He's a monor. Is a good corner.
- [74:14]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't.
- [74:15]
Bruce Feldman
From everything I had heard from people down there at LSU was like, he's not going to wow you in testing. He's a really good football player. And they have f. They have really fast receivers at LSU who didn't run away from him, but they didn't think he was going to run like 438 or whatever again to be a corner, to be top five. And, and DJ. DJs you know, weight knows a thousand times more about the NFL draft than me, but I was a little surprised see him had him that high.
- [74:42]
Ryan Rosillo
But it was a non consensus thing because no one else, everyone, if anyone, like, if I've gone through five or six of these things. McCoy out of Tennessee has always been the highest ranked SEC guy. And then to have Monsoon up that high. I thought he was in a sea of disappointment in Baton Rouge last year. I thought he was an awesome, awesome football player. So I was kind of like, oh, damn. I was like, DJ likes him that much. And he's also pretty big too, which is a little different. So I don't, I don't know if I haven't had him on yet to ask him about it, so I'd be curious. But I'm just, I'm warning SEC fans out there if it ends up being something like you get closer to draft day and like the first round and it's like pick 12 and no one is called from that. Like, it's just. It's going to be, it's going to be a tough day. It's going to be a tough day for that part of the country. That's all.
- [75:28]
Bruce Feldman
It's been a, it's been a tough couple months. I mean, they had. They went like 4 and 9 in the postseason. They. They like their playoff record is not good over the last three years at all. You know, obviously, as you said, the Big Tens won the last three national titles. The SEC hasn't even gotten close. You know, now you had Ole Miss was competitive with Miami. I mean, Notre Dame beat Georgia by like 11 points last year in the, in the semifinal game. But Alabama the bluest of the blue bloods in that conference gets beat by 35 by Indiana. It's, it's just like kind of eye opening. Then you stack it with the drama. Like when, you know, at some point, you know, the late, great Mike Slive, the commissioner of the sec always wanted it to be like, you know, to, to get rid of the dirty, dirty reputation of what it was. And, you know, they didn't have the, you know, I think they wanted it to be like, we don't want these schools to be on probation or, you know, whatever. And now all of a sudden you got Lane, you got the drama with Lane Kiffin like every other day it seems like on social media. And you certainly have the dabo going after an outing. Ole Miss and Pete Golding, like, that's not stuff that Sankey wants. You know, I don't even, you know, I have no idea if it's worth getting into all the drama with the basketball, you know, programs. You know, Charles Baro is now, you know, I mean, he's like, what, three years removed from playing in Alabama. And then now Alabama, you know, their ad, Greg Byrne, who spent a lot of time talking about like, we need guardrails, we need guard rails. And then a lot of people are pointing them back going, wait a minute, you're this guy who said we needed guardrails. Now you're the first one to be like, hey, this guy's a good, this guy's a good rim protector. You know, we, we, we need him.
- [77:16]
Ryan Rosillo
So, yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't wait for the draft season because that was even in a disappointment in the playoffs and not being in the national championship game multiple years now, I think the Big Ten head to head last year, you know, some of those games where I was like, oh, South Carolina will get them and they'll get them. And then it was like, nope, that didn't happen. And then you combine that with the Big Ten matchups again in this bowl season. So that's a 24, 25 season result here. I mean, there's just as much as I've bang the table for the SEC over all the years that I certainly don't even understand what the argument was back then. The argument has shifted and I think that draft thing is going to be, it's going to be another talking point while again, we're months away from it, but I'm glad that we got in front of it a little bit. Thank you, Bruce. You can read him on the athletic. And of course we'll be checking in again before the draft. Thanks, man.
- [78:04]
Bruce Feldman
Always a pleasure, Ryan. Thanks for having me.
- [78:10]
Ryan Rosillo
You want details?
- [78:11]
Kyle
Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?
- [78:17]
Ryan Rosillo
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [78:19]
Kyle
I have every toy you can possibly imagine, and best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.
- [78:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Life advice email address lifeadvice rrmail.com we are in a great mood today. I think. Trade deadline's a week away. Excited. We're really close to all seeing each other here. Getting ready to go to San Francisco. Dude, Kevin's coming.
- [78:45]
Saruti
Yep.
- [78:46]
Ryan Rosillo
So it's going to be exciting. Working on warriors tickets. Nothing confirmed as of now. If they trade for Giannis, I should probably just hedge it and buy the tickets now. Yeah, just good market. It's going to be the four of us in my hotel room watching the game on the laptop. Don't say that.
- [79:04]
Saruti
That could be fun. Bring the Coors loads. Yeah, bring.
- [79:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, four. We'll need four of them. And maybe I'll get everybody a hat. Speaking of hats, got my Utah mammoth hat on here. Am I a Salt Lake guy now?
- [79:16]
Kyle
Just from what I heard off air, it seems like you've had a magical trip just from. Just from the way you light up when you've talked about last night and.
- [79:23]
Ryan Rosillo
What'S going to go on today.
- [79:24]
Kyle
It just seems. Seems like you're having a blast.
- [79:28]
Ryan Rosillo
It's an awesome organization and I hope these guys win. All right. So, yes. Am I a little biased? Because I sat next to the owner twice, which was not expected either time. And then the second night, somebody's like, oh, and Ryan Smith, who, you know, close in age. So you don't run into a lot of guys that are close to your age that own NBA franchises. And then of course, Justin Sanic, who I've known for a really long time. I've known Danny Ainge for a long time. And then of course, Austin, who I've always got along with. And yeah, I'm a little friendly with Will Hardy, the head coach. So it was. And then we got Niang on the squad. Saw him just getting ready. He's ready. You want to talk about a guy I would be traded for, if he's even available, Stays ready. He's not playing. Right knee angle. Come in and friend of the program you guys want. Zero attempts, 10 assists. I'll dissect your immediately. So I have a probably a longer form love for the Utah Jazz and And what, no travelogue?
- [80:29]
Saruti
Utah.
- [80:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I went to Sundance by myself.
- [80:34]
Saruti
That's kind of cool.
- [80:35]
Kyle
Do you see movies?
- [80:37]
Ryan Rosillo
You're not going to believe me. Do you know what was playing during the window? I was there. You don't. So I'll just tell you now.
- [80:46]
Saruti
Yeah, I guess not.
- [80:47]
Ryan Rosillo
The Brittney Griner documentary. So I can go?
- [80:49]
Saruti
Let's go. Yeah.
- [80:51]
Kyle
Oh, you were only there for, like.
- [80:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Half a day or something. I see. Yeah. Yeah.
- [80:56]
Saruti
What's it about? Is it about the Russia thing?
- [80:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Probably. It's actually probably pretty interesting, but I'll say.
- [81:01]
Saruti
I'm actually not. I'm not. Not interested. I would.
- [81:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, Yeah. I bought a knife instead. Kyle, you'd be psyched.
- [81:07]
Kyle
I heard some stuff went down at the High West Tap Room. It's all over the news. I'm glad you weren't in there for that.
- [81:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, I was there. What, for that? No, what happened?
- [81:18]
Kyle
I forget. Didn't say that.
- [81:19]
Saruti
Allowed me to cut that.
- [81:20]
Kyle
I think a guy got punched in the. A guy got punched in the face. It was like a political thing. It was like a big deal.
- [81:24]
Ryan Rosillo
It wasn't me.
- [81:25]
Kyle
Yeah, but I was in the High West Tap Room, and I remember I was. It was Sundance, like, 21, maybe.
- [81:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I can't believe they let you go to Sundance, by the way.
- [81:34]
Kyle
I didn't see a single movie. I was there the whole time, and I was just. I remember I was there at this bar, and I was drinking, and a guy came up to me and he was like, you know, you shouldn't be standing and drinking. You're not allowed to do that. And I just left the bar. I was like, all right, Utah's got me. It's all strange. He was like a local, like, trying to do me a favor. Like, you can't be standing and drinking. I heard there were different drinking rules here, but this is one. I was like, I'm not going to be able to follow this one. So I just left.
- [81:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Went back to the house. I got to tell you right now, too, as somebody who's been to Utah a bunch of times, like, whatever the rules are or the things that are different, you don't. If, if you go into it expecting it, maybe you'll think something is different, but I was certainly doing that. I don't even.
- [82:12]
Bobby Marks
Park City.
- [82:13]
Saruti
I feel like we. We were in Park City. Park City.
- [82:15]
Ryan Rosillo
You don't even.
- [82:15]
Saruti
Yeah.
- [82:16]
Ryan Rosillo
You don't even notice anything.
- [82:17]
Bruce Feldman
I, I.
- [82:18]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, I've been to Provo a couple times, and, yeah, maybe you'll notice a Couple things are a little different, or. I think I remember one time with Stanford Steve, we were like, hey, let's. Let's have a night tonight. And then I was like, are you insanely sober? And he was like, yeah, I don't know what's going on. And then somebody was like, hey, morons.
- [82:35]
Kyle
The beers are different.
- [82:36]
Ryan Rosillo
The beer is different.
- [82:38]
Kyle
It's like 3% or something.
- [82:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. They were like, it's near beer, but Utah. I would say for the people that have anxiety about the Utah being different, if. If you go in expecting something to be different, then your. Your awareness is, like, behind on the whole thing, but you just. I don't know. Like, I go to Park City, it feels like I'm just in another awesome ski town. I. I love it out there, but it was Sundance. I was on the back end of was slow. It was something I always wanted to do for, like, the full week. I did not do it, and now it's gone. It's going to Boulder, so it'll be done. So. Yeah, but you know Steph Curry live in person. You're gonna turn that down? No, I'm coming back out for hockey, so look out.
- [83:21]
Kyle
Check out the Bongo Lounge if you're. If you're ever going past it. I'm the greatest bars ever.
- [83:26]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I went to Planet Fitness and I was judged for the record. Yeah.
- [83:31]
Kyle
Local arm going off.
- [83:32]
Ryan Rosillo
What happened? No. Somebody was like, you have nice arms. I was like, thanks, but I thought this was a judgment free zone. I thought this was the whole. Whole concept, so. All right, let's get some emails.
- [83:47]
Saruti
I would say Adnan Burke would be proud of your name dropping at the.
- [83:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Top of that, too, by the way. Yeah, but I mean, is it name dropping when they invite you?
- [83:58]
Saruti
Yeah, I think so.
- [84:03]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [84:03]
Ryan Rosillo
I think I was trying to give you the full scope of the story, though, of, like, why would you go to Utah for two days to watch basketball? It's easy. It's an hour flight. I don't know. Was I on Zillow? Of course. You're always on. We should bring back. Yeah, yeah, we should bring back the Brazilo segment. I had some idea in my head of, like, describing teams in a Zillow summary.
- [84:28]
Saruti
You know, ton of potential. Ton of potential.
- [84:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Beautiful, scenic, new build, full remodel.
- [84:35]
Kyle
Oh, no. This is almost too good for the YouTube.
- [84:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [84:37]
Kyle
This is going to be main show.
- [84:38]
Ryan Rosillo
I like it. You want to do main show Rosillos, and we'll do it with NBA franchises. I thought about this.
- [84:43]
Kyle
That's an open that's totally an open.
- [84:44]
Ryan Rosillo
That's great. I don't know if it's an open or not.
- [84:46]
Kyle
I think it could be.
- [84:48]
Ryan Rosillo
Remember we did quarterbacks as girlfriends?
- [84:51]
Kyle
Oh, who could forget? We didn't do it this year.
- [84:54]
Saruti
We haven't done that.
- [84:54]
Ryan Rosillo
People like that. People like it. And then there are certain people that.
- [84:58]
Kyle
Really don't like it.
- [84:58]
Saruti
Some people.
- [84:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Wall Street Journal guy who was like, we're still doing this in 2019. I was like, what? Yeah, I thought that worked. Yeah, I could do. I could do NBA franchises as Zillow summaries. Just the worst roster is like, artists hide away. Sacramento Kings when it says artists hide when the outdoor pictures are slide 37 something. Or conversely, if the outside pictures are the first five, then you're like, okay, this is gonna be. This. This kitchen's gonna need some work. Okay, a couple follow ups here. Staying with an old girlfriend. I did this. I am six'3,220, and despite what Ryan says, you cannot sleep over wherever you want with those stats. All right? Be the wiser and learn from the mistakes of others. Do not do this. Long story short, I flew to New York for a belated birthday trip to see friends that live there. Heavy breathing buddy of mine owns a condo in Brooklyn and the plan was to crash there as he was out of town. But of course that plan fell apart as his sister needed it last minute. I was left with two options. Option one, be a fucking adult and pay for a last minute hotel for four nights.
- [86:11]
Kyle
Four nights is a lot.
- [86:12]
Saruti
Good option.
- [86:12]
Kyle
Yep, four nights is a lot when you're not expecting four nights. One night, I think.
- [86:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, do it. We didn't get the age of the emailer, just for the the record. Option two, crash with your close friends from college, then your girlfriend. Wait. Crash with your close friend from college who your then girlfriend knew you intermittently hooked up with for roughly a year during the good old days. Not only did I choose option number two because it was pragmatic, but I lied about it because I didn't want her upset so I could enjoy my birthday trip. Nothing happened and I knew nothing would happen. But that was my justification. It was unequivocally one of the most selfish things I've ever done and will never repeat. Four months, four years, whatever it is, doesn't matter. Do what I did, man, you'll thank me later. I don't even know. He didn't even tell us whether or not she found out. But maybe he just carries.
- [87:00]
Saruti
I know he got away with it.
- [87:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Sounds like he did and didn't do anything wrong. But look, everyone's different. Some people think you should never ever have any communication with anyone you've ever had in your life when you're in a relationship. And others, like it's a difference between.
- [87:20]
Saruti
Communication and staying at their place.
- [87:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you have anybody married? Do you have a married female in your life that hits you up every six months?
- [87:31]
Bruce Feldman
Yes.
- [87:32]
Ryan Rosillo
That's not your sister.
- [87:35]
Kyle
But also her husband's my good friend too, so maybe that totally takes it. That's not what you're saying.
- [87:41]
Ryan Rosillo
No, but that is what I'm. Well, I mean, there you go. That makes sense.
- [87:46]
Saruti
I don't think I do. Trying to think.
- [87:47]
Kyle
Yeah, that would be my only one, I think. Yep. It's almost like we're double friends. So I don't think.
- [87:54]
Saruti
You're not counting friends, significant others. It's. No.
- [87:57]
Ryan Rosillo
So you don't have a. Not like just a ice. A siloed female woman who is married. That is just what's. What's checking in. No. Yeah.
- [88:10]
Saruti
No, I mean the. Like it would just be Smallman, but she's, you know, she's single, so it's.
- [88:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Not like she's not married. Yeah, that's.
- [88:18]
Saruti
Yeah. And she's also very good friends with my wife, so.
- [88:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Again, yeah. All right, not married.
- [88:26]
Kyle
Solved.
- [88:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. All right, let's get into some cheating here. 6, 3, 2, 25. Player comp nets. Andre Karolenko with even worse knees. Dude, Jazz Karolenko. There's no statue of him here for the record. Hey guys, I have a story for you today straight out of a rom com movie and need some serious advice. I have a good friend who got married last year. Stereotypical social media couple everyone thought was happy until recently. Rumors started to spread that his wife had an affair. Turns out the affair was with his brother in law for the past 10 years. His brother in law? Yes.
- [89:04]
Kyle
Oh, okay.
- [89:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Married my friend's sister. Got it. So do we all have that? Yep. Right?
- [89:10]
Kyle
Yeah, it's like a math problem that seems hard, but once you like actually put out, you're like, oh, no, that makes sense. Okay.
- [89:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah.
- [89:16]
Saruti
It's like husband.
- [89:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah. And be like, oh, that tree had an extra branch. Damn it. It is different. I don't know what it is about those sentences. And maybe you could introduce like, hey, this is my friend. He's really good. If you say that this cousin is married to a brother, he's able to figure it out with just one read through. Yeah. You're like, oh my God. That's amazing. Hey, come over here. Come over to our table. I would say most Americans, whatever it is, when you read those sentences, we all just, our brain just turns into scrambled eggs. But I think we have it, right? We have it.
- [89:47]
Kyle
Yep. Yep. Totally good.
- [89:49]
Ryan Rosillo
All right. So his brother in law married my friend's sister, has three kids, fourth on the way. Since my friend's marriage was recent, no kids involved, they are getting a divorce immediately. However, his sister and brother in law, again, this is the guy's wife who he's divorcing, hooked up with a brother in law, are staying together due to having four kids under 10 and wanting to raise them together. This puts my friend in a really tough position. Not only did you hate the guy because he cheated on your nine months pregnant sister, but also hate that he cheated with your wife. Wow.
- [90:24]
Kyle
Deal.
- [90:24]
Saruti
Double whammy.
- [90:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah, that's, you know, like, yeah.
- [90:28]
Saruti
We'Re not getting over that.
- [90:30]
Ryan Rosillo
But you know, what the hell does he want from us? You don't want to carry hate around. Like really now.
- [90:37]
Saruti
I'm good with it. Yeah.
- [90:38]
Kyle
Maybe try to bottle it up.
- [90:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. The best revenge is being at peace with all of it. Like that doesn't seem like being. That doesn't seem best of anything. A little background. We live in Utah. Uh oh, okay. This is an LDS background. So family time is emphasized and they all get together at least once a week for dinner at the grandparents house for the rest of his life. My friend has to now see the guy who had an affair with his wife every single week. My friend was a middle linebacker in high school. While not the tallest guy, 5, 9ish. A little London Fletcher action here. Built like a brick house. He could easily handle the cheater, but does not know how to approach the situation best. The first time they're getting all together after this news came out to all parties is in two weeks. There's no way we're going to be able to help. I don't think I'll say.
- [91:30]
Saruti
What do you want from us? What's worse though is his buddy have the worst setup or does the brother in law have the worst setup? He's got to be around like this. The whole family. I'm assuming the whole family hates him.
- [91:45]
Kyle
Yeah, but he's still like intact, you know?
- [91:49]
Saruti
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. He's never gonna win an argument with his wife ever again. Certainly never gonna win arguing with anyone in the family ever again. Nobody likes you and you have to hang out with them once a Week. That's a tough setup.
- [92:00]
Ryan Rosillo
So are you asking who you would rather be?
- [92:02]
Saruti
Not. No, because the answer is neither. I'm just saying who has it worse?
- [92:06]
Ryan Rosillo
No, you can't say neither. No, no, no.
- [92:08]
Kyle
That game has.
- [92:09]
Ryan Rosillo
You can't say that. Let's which game it out.
- [92:16]
Kyle
I think I'd like to be the one in the doghouse.
- [92:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think I'd rather be the guy in the doghouse because you know what men are doing. Deep down he's still looking at your friend going whatever. Sorry. I'm sorry. It's a tough one. Yeah. But okay, Calvin, like he doesn't have the freedom and maybe that's something some just hassle tax he's going to pay the rest of his life. Like some of my friends I'll think about like their dynamic and their marriage and I think to myself and it's just a little game that I like to like if you ever like, like if like there's certain guys that I'm like, I think I would rather be divorced than have to put up with your wife. If the day to day if, yeah, if you ever go, if you ever had to having an affair or something like that, like I think you'd just be better off leaving because you would be in hell. As bummed out as you would be about losing your family, it would probably be a little bit easier to deal with that day to day than to be in the mix day to day. So that's probably the counter argument to where you'd rather be the friend because at least he has freedom of movement here and has to go to this dinner just once in a while.
- [93:25]
Saruti
But your buddy gets a restart on life. That's like he gets to. He could date again. He could find somebody else new again. He could live freely. Yeah, he's still going to be. Obviously it's sad, but the other guy is trapped in this thing where everyone hates him. And he is basically. I mean his wife always has the upper hand on you for the rest of your life.
- [93:43]
Kyle
Wait, I thought his wife sucks.
- [93:46]
Saruti
No, no, no. I'm saying that the, the brother in law, his wife, this guy's sister, like he's never going to win an argument with her ever again. He's got to go to a family that always hates him. The brother in law hates him. Like it's a miserable kind of existence. Like what is happiness in his life now?
- [94:01]
Kyle
Oh, then I think I misread this. I would rather be the gu.
- [94:06]
Ryan Rosillo
I think that's what I meant to say.
- [94:07]
Saruti
That's what I'm saying.
- [94:09]
Ryan Rosillo
But that's easy to say when you don't have, like.
- [94:12]
Kyle
Well, that's what I say. You said you didn't have kids, so it's like, I'd rather just. Clean break.
- [94:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah, right. All right, all right.
- [94:18]
Kyle
I know, I know. I learned from it.
- [94:20]
Ryan Rosillo
And I don't know. Yeah. Like, you only have to deal with the standard, but who knows? Like, maybe his. His wife is super forgiving and they were going through a tough stretch and she understands it, and no one outside the family understands the dynamic. And then, you know, you start doing real adult stuff. You know, like, we were in a bad place and I forgive them and there's a bunch of reasons why, and we've made peace with it. I don't know. You know, again, I've only been in Utah like 48 hours, so I don't have a full. Full understanding of. Of all the rules, the local people.
- [94:48]
Kyle
A couple shows you could watch.
- [94:50]
Ryan Rosillo
No, there's a pan. Give you an idea. I do have a pan the guy gave me.
- [94:53]
Saruti
But let's get onto Utah Instagram and you'll know.
- [94:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I think even Jesus would have his side here. Whichever version of Jesus there is on.
- [95:02]
Saruti
This one where all the Jesuses would have.
- [95:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah. I think most of the Jesus would be like, geez, I. That's a tough spot, buddy. Maybe you just don't go to dinner anymore.
- [95:11]
Saruti
Yeah.
- [95:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, we know you still love us.
- [95:13]
Saruti
Yeah.
- [95:14]
Kyle
You could take a break from the dinner, I think.
- [95:17]
Saruti
Yeah.
- [95:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Ken, is there someone in the family that's sane that could be like, hey, maybe Doug doesn't have to swing by this week.
- [95:27]
Saruti
Yeah.
- [95:27]
Kyle
I mean, when he does come, it'll certainly be like bated breath again. It'll be like a.
- [95:31]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, it'll be.
- [95:32]
Saruti
But then you're like, Doug, off the hook. You know, like, oh, cool.
- [95:35]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I'm Doug. Doug. Doug in this version is the guy we're all feeling bad for. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Right.
- [95:42]
Saruti
Okay.
- [95:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Maybe I just gave him a cooler name.
- [95:45]
Saruti
You don't let brother in law off the hook. Yeah.
- [95:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Hammer.
- [95:49]
Saruti
Oh, there were some allegations. Tom sent me this. Apparently we got to confirm that email because people think that that was maybe pft that sent that email in. The jackhammer guy about Jackhammer.
- [95:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that's okay.
- [96:01]
Saruti
Only because they were talking about Sam Darnold's father in law named Dick Hammer.
- [96:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. So five nine checks out.
- [96:15]
Saruti
See, Dick Hammer at five nine is funny. The shorter Dick Hammer is, the funnier.
- [96:19]
Ryan Rosillo
It is if you're 57. And your name is Dick Hammer. You're a legend. Yeah, you're in sales. You get too drunk at some of the events, but everybody loves you because you're only five. Seven. Yeah, that one's fake, I don't think. I don't even mind if that one's fake because I think there's probably a lot of dads out there. The last name Hammer going, well, hey, like he's.
- [96:39]
Kyle
What are we putting in front of this thing, right? Should we make it cool or should we try to like, you know, shine it down?
- [96:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Trying to tell us, you know, we didn't help six people on that one. Exactly. You know, I, I don't like the guy. Email keeps going. He's stressing about what to do, whether to ignore him completely the rest of his life at the dinner table, to pull him aside and get one or two few good punches in and call it even, or to act like it never happened, be friends with the guy. I don't, I don't see how option three is even a possibility. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Is there any way that maybe you can get the word out that you're. It's on site. Like, just so you know, he's going to have to, like, if you think you're going to win. I mean, it's tough to talk like this unless you know for certain. But then again, who knows? Maybe that guy's like all sorts of weird stuff going on in his head and he's just going to get you. He's going to get you in those first 30 seconds. First 15 seconds. Really? Could you get the word out to the fanmates, like, hey, I'm going to get over this eventually, but I'm going to strike him aggressively and multiple times the first time I see him. So, yeah, sure, I'll be there. What time do you guys start in sun? Seven. I'll be there at 6:45. And so then, even if it's not true, again, I'm kind of being a little ridiculous here. Could they say, like, hey, maybe you chill out. I just can't believe there's not somebody, despite the priority of family time, that there's not somebody that's like, can't we give this six months or something like this? And then you think about revenge? You know, some people are like, well, you know, how much time do you really want to put into all this stuff? Like, what are you actually willing to do? Most of us are actually willing to do very little, which is good because if we were just all out Here, like a western movie, like just keeping track. Vendetta's left and right. Be a tough society to run through. But at the same time, maybe society would be a little bit better if you knew that more, more like damaging repercussions were on the line when you would with people. You know, I don't know. I mean, if, if it were the Wild West, I think we would know what would happen on this one. I mean, you want to talk about a man's, a man's royal crest being.
- [98:33]
Kyle
Soiled here, that's like four horses running different directions kind of deal, right? Like that's a terrible one.
- [98:40]
Ryan Rosillo
If, you know, maybe if you're, if the town likes you and you bring your local produce in and your prices are reasonable. But I, I just don't see why he has to go to the dinner. Yeah, I agree.
- [98:53]
Kyle
I try to stay away. There's probably a better time to try to introduce reintroduce everyone, but.
- [98:59]
Saruti
Yeah, but eventually you're going to have to confront this, like eventually six months. At some point they're going to have to live with reality that you're, that you're, you're the cheater is part of your life pretty much every day.
- [99:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, all of us, like deep down want to say like, oh, somebody did this to us. You'd be like, oh, anybody ever did that to me. And it's like, well, you don't, you don't really know. And then if it does happen to you, so what does your friend need? Does your friend need to say something like, can your friend pull him aside without it getting physical? And is it healthier? I'm sure a therapist would say, like the healthy thing is at some point that you need to have a one on one conversation with him to tell him everything you're feeling. Or even better, just be like, I need to talk to you. And is the other person gonna just ramble and ramble and ramble and apologize and do all these things, is he even gonna mean it? You know, like sometimes when you're in that spot and the other person's just trying to get out of it and they're just constantly going like, oh, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. Like, yeah, you're just sorry right now because you just want to get this part over with. But is there of conversation where the emailer's friend needs some sort of verbal interaction from this guy to, to get to the next step of trying to put all this stuff behind him, you know? Or do you start, you know, Calling his work, taking pictures of his work truck, going, this guy cut me off. And then you're just like, every week you're just coming up with, like, new things, trying to this guy's life up. But then again, he's also married to somebody in the family, so you're also hurting a family member too. If this guy were to lose his job.
- [100:24]
Saruti
Yeah. And so your niece is. And nephews. Yeah. It's not good.
- [100:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, they're. Then they're hitting you up for college tuition because you ruin this guy's career with just a million soft jabs over a decade.
- [100:36]
Bruce Feldman
Yeah.
- [100:36]
Saruti
There's a long play here where you just, like, you know, you get. You get his kids to like you more than him. And he has this whole, like, underlying like, oh, man, am I good enough, dad kind of thing.
- [100:45]
Kyle
There's, there's.
- [100:46]
Saruti
There's a long place you can.
- [100:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow. Wow, the Italian coming out.
- [100:51]
Saruti
Yeah. Yeah, because there's not. What is he gonna say that's gonna make you feel better? There's nothing that he's gonna say, like, I always. For me, there's nothing anyone could say to be like, oh, yeah, all right, man. Yeah, give it a year. I'll be fine. Like, no, no.
- [101:04]
Kyle
Real suffering is the only thing.
- [101:05]
Ryan Rosillo
I would never. I would never be fine about this. Yeah, it would never. Like, hey, our kids are gonna be jet skiing in five years. No, they're not.
- [101:13]
Saruti
Yeah. You would always secretly be rooting for the doubt, the demise of that person. And, yeah. You know.
- [101:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Sorry, man.
- [101:22]
Kyle
Wilco's still on. Maybe you guys could do something like that.
- [101:24]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know. Were you more of a Wilco guy than Jerry guy? I bet you were.
- [101:29]
Kyle
No, you know, actually, I. I was watching Tribunal justice on daytime TV and then it switched over to Wilco's. It must have been a rerun. Although he looked kind of old, so maybe he is still on. So probably not, but it must have been like. Maybe it's in the, like the teens. Maybe like, you know, 2017 or something. It seemed like the cameras looked a little better and I was riveted. I watched the whole thing and I was like, I can't believe I just got sucked in. So maybe I missed it all those years. I didn't really pay much attention to.
- [101:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Him, but I think it was.
- [102:00]
Kyle
I think it was a little later on. He had this massive, like, platinum chain on. It was like two or three buttons on the shirt.
- [102:08]
Ryan Rosillo
I was like, oh, my God. It was an early.
- [102:11]
Saruti
Woke up. It was late.
- [102:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. The Ratings for the show are terrific. Look at this guy's chain. We got one more here. Hey, guys. 28, 5, 7 and a half, 180 pounds, 30% body fat based on a DEXA scan. Gym stats, bench press 225 times 8. Deadlift 315 times 6. Player comp, JJ Redick. I know everyone uses him, but I once made an Instagram post about attending Duke for my master's degree tag jj. And he commented, love it. I hope to get that frame someday.
- [102:42]
Kyle
Caught him on a good day, huh?
- [102:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Good for you.
- [102:45]
Kyle
Oh, well, you know, you think guys like the hole, and you think guys like that, you know, they go through their tags, they could respond to everything. But, you know, you caught him on a good day. That's great.
- [102:55]
Saruti
Kyle. J.J. reddick. Beef going on here?
- [102:58]
Kyle
No, I'm thinking it could have been anyone know about. Could have been anyone.
- [103:02]
Ryan Rosillo
It was a really good line, and I was with you, Ceruti, but it's also entire. Like, JJ feels like one of the last guys that would actually ever take the time to then go ahead and tag like, hey, awesome, dude. That just doesn't feel like a J.J. thing. Fair.
- [103:17]
Saruti
Yeah, I would agree.
- [103:19]
Ryan Rosillo
All right. As with most men after breakups, I focused on rebuilding myself for the past two and a half years. Yeah, you did.
- [103:27]
Kyle
Whoa.
- [103:29]
Ryan Rosillo
180, 225 times eight.
- [103:30]
Kyle
So OKC level rebuild.
- [103:32]
Ryan Rosillo
This is great. Yeah, but OKCS was quick. This one isn't as quick as for a person, even though it's about the same amount of time. OKC and this guy. Well, again, OKCS was incredibly quick. We'll leave it at that. Most of my free time is spent rock climbing, weightlifting, practicing piano, reading nonfiction. A lot of similarities all around, dude. Good. Yeah, the results have generally spoken for themselves, and I consider myself to be in great shape. I post myself playing the keyboard on Instagram with mountain backdrops. Usually 30, 40 likes per story. All right, we're doing some numbers here. A dude thirst trap on a story that's pretty good. I can have decent conversations about the topics that I read. However, this is not translated into attracting single women. On the contrary, I find myself constantly gaining the attention of men, both gay and straight. There are countless examples I could give, but the most recent one involved a singles Jewish event where I made a strong effort to speak to different women. And yet, a man eventually started asking me how he could can grow his arms to my size. Dude just happened to me if he could have my phone number. That didn't happen. At the end of the Night he texted me to ask if we could go rock climbing sometime. And it's just frustrating that women do not express the same interest. For context, I consider myself a performer and not much of a talker. I got it.
- [104:51]
Kyle
I already got it.
- [104:53]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm not funny, witty or engaging. To be frank. That was pretty frank.
- [104:58]
Saruti
Yep, it checks out.
- [105:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, we. You just don't have a lot of people writing that about themselves. This guy's self scouting is incredible. I'm not funny, winning or engaging. To be frank, my value comes from performances. So I suppose that's why I struggle with women. Does this paradigm have to produce a lifelong repellent against women? Is the problem that I'm five seven and a half and not six three? Look, it's not helping to be frank.
- [105:23]
Saruti
Yep.
- [105:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Right, Frank, you know, I mean, how can I attract more women and less men? Thanks. Out of the pod.
- [105:31]
Kyle
I think I got it. I don't know. Does he say where he's located? Because that would determine my answer a little bit.
- [105:37]
Ryan Rosillo
No.
- [105:38]
Kyle
No. Is there a piano bar in this town you can maybe do a shift at? Nice hotel that has a piano in the lobby, something like that. Listen, we're all similar size when we're sitting down, right? So there you go, you're going to work.
- [105:49]
Saruti
Who knows?
- [105:50]
Kyle
Is he five, seven, is he six one? I don't know, but he's going to work. And then you go off to the bar, you have your drink and maybe somebody noticed you and they saw you. You consider yourself a performer. Maybe you've just blown them away. I think he said Jewish, so I don't think they have like organs in temples. But if it was a church thing, maybe, you know, if you're not, if you're good with the cross religious thing, maybe you could see if you could take a shift as like an organ guy, go to the Fellowship Donuts and coffee afterwards and be like, yeah, was that you on the organ? There was really nice.
- [106:19]
Ryan Rosillo
I have no idea what you're saying right now, but I love every word.
- [106:21]
Kyle
Well, don't churches have organ players and piano players and stuff?
- [106:24]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm not sure if Georgia. Yeah, but I don't understand. I think you should have just stayed with the hotel thing, you know, I'm just saying, I'm thinking other, other ways.
- [106:30]
Kyle
Where you can be, you know, doing your performance thing in front of a group of people where, you know, maybe half of them would be women. That's what I'm just saying, like, instead of like, check out my Instagram stories of me doing this in front of a mountain. This is electric. This is in person. Look at this.
- [106:44]
Saruti
So I guess your average dude posting, like, keyboard piano content is not getting a ton of DMS from the opposite sex. I would just take a guess. I don't know, but I would just take a guess on that. So, like, you see that you're throwing that universe, and there's never going to be anything that comes back to you on that. You got to do it. Yeah. That's why I think. I think the hotel thing is a good idea. You do have a lot of interest. So, like, you're into rock climbing, you play the piano and you're jacked. How many of those are ripped?
- [107:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay.
- [107:15]
Saruti
How many of those are, like. Are girls just, like, around? You know, like, I guess if you go to the gym. But we've talked about this a million times, you know, trying to find somebody at the gym.
- [107:24]
Kyle
Indoor rock climbing. I don't know.
- [107:26]
Saruti
I know girls who like rock climbing.
- [107:27]
Kyle
Some place where there's a lobby.
- [107:28]
Saruti
Someone at a rock climbing event. Probably not. Like, I think you could do more places where, like, women are just around.
- [107:35]
Kyle
Want me to hold your rope?
- [107:37]
Saruti
Sure, yeah.
- [107:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Metaphorically. I think there has to be. There's definitely rock climbing clubs.
- [107:45]
Kyle
Yeah, my sister's in one. You know, there's no lobby, you know, on a mountain. But, no, she's lesbian, actually. Getting married this summer.
- [107:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, that sort of checks out with him.
- [107:55]
Kyle
That's what I'm saying. So you might run into that. You might run into that. So I don't know.
- [107:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Let's get this guy a plus one or a minus one. I think the rock climbing thing, I would say there has to be some clubs. And I'll tell you, any girl that I've ever met that's into the outdoors thing, they actually are way more approachable. There's just something about women that want to go camping or women that are just motivated to be in the outdoors. Yeah, but there's something about them that's far more grounded, where you're not sifting through some of the, you know, prologue bullshit of, you know, getting to know.
- [108:33]
Kyle
Somebody, showing up places on time.
- [108:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, well, I don't know if they're punctual. I just would say that there's, you know, I'm not going, like, full hippie and thinking back to, like, the UVM days, but if I run through the catalog of all the different people and the women that. That I've met, been friends with or whatever, there's something about the ones that were a little Bit more motivated to be like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to, like, go out and, like, I'm camping at the. At the beach or I'm doing this mountain thing or whatever. They're actually just way friendlier and nicer and there's a little bit less that you're dealing with in the beginning, all that stuff. So maybe leaning into some of that. I'd ask about these IG posts. Is your shirt on while you're playing the piano in front of a mountainscape?
- [109:10]
Saruti
That's why I said if it is.
- [109:11]
Kyle
You'Re maybe popping it off or make some compression.
- [109:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, just saying, like, you know, that's catnip for some dudes out there. And so that might be why you're getting a little bit more attention.
- [109:22]
Kyle
Oh, I see.
- [109:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I mean, like, I'm always. I'm always sort of honored when a gay guy is, like, hitting on me. I'm just like, you know. And I'll admit, too, that's it. Sometimes you're like, well, then there has to be something. You know, you're like, okay, well, something's working.
- [109:37]
Kyle
I think my next trick is Woodford Reserve, actually.
- [109:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, now that you mentioned. Just need to shift it over.
- [109:43]
Kyle
Go and shelf.
- [109:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Just shift it over a little bit. But then again, sometimes I think it's like, okay, so is this the equivalent of, like, maybe not a number one seed when you're out in LA and you're like, man, I'm getting a lot of attention. And it's like, oh, well, she's in LA now. She's not in Des Moines anymore. She's in la. And the competition is she got a tough, tough bracket. She's in the West. So this is, you know, she knows she has to step it up a little bit more to, like, no. And I think sometimes that's what happens when you're a straight guy and you're like, this is like, if I'm this attractive to this person, why wouldn't it sort of shift over into the other thing? So, yeah, I would say maybe between the piano mountainscape posts, maybe something that is a little more neutral. Maybe the shirts, whatever. I mean, look, if you're asking us like, hey, how do I talk to women? You know? I mean, come on, dude. Everybody's been trying to figure that one out. There's only a few people. Only a few people that have that key. And I wouldn't ever sit here and be like, all right, grab a pen.
- [110:54]
Kyle
This is about getting you in the right place to talk to him.
- [110:56]
Ryan Rosillo
And not miss.
- [110:57]
Kyle
What you do is. Is what you do.
- [110:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but he went to a Jewish mixer, and, you know, dudes are asking him for his phone number.
- [111:03]
Saruti
I think Kyle's idea was the right idea, because I'm kind of like, this way too. Like, I'm not. I would say that I'm. I'm not like, the guy at the bar who's just, like, firing on everybody. Would be firing everybody and is, like, a smooth talker. No, but, like, you get me in, like, a comfortable environment, and I feel like I'm a good hang. Like, it's. It's tough.
- [111:19]
Kyle
Sounds like a kicking around a soccer ball outside, like. Yeah, you'll mix it up, right?
- [111:23]
Ryan Rosillo
So you.
- [111:24]
Saruti
Yeah, so that's why I say, Trevor Hoffman over here. What's up?
- [111:28]
Kyle
Do some drink.
- [111:29]
Saruti
You get in the environment, you're comfortable, and, like, you're feeling yourself. Like, that's. And playing the piano is that thing. I think that's the. That's the move.
- [111:36]
Kyle
Rock walls and piano bars. That should be your new song if you're making. If you're making music. Rock walls and piano bars.
- [111:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Dude, get out there. I would say the universal thing, though, in talking to someone else and trying to break through, because, I mean, it just always sucks those first few minutes, especially the setting. If it's just a bar, you got to sift through the noise. You get to sift through the traffic or friends, motivations, competition, and all that kind of stuff. That's why when you're younger and delusional, it's awesome. You start getting older and you start processing all these things. Like, well, what have I, you know.
- [112:08]
Kyle
In their whole timeout?
- [112:10]
Ryan Rosillo
That's why, like. And I don't mean to sound harsh about this, but, like, that's kind of why I just admire the dumb guy from San Diego who's just 40, but 20. He doesn't think about any of this stuff. He's like, this is stupid. So what are you guys doing tonight? Yeah, that girl's hot, and I'm awesome. And I don't mean, like, every guy who's 40 who still surfs in San Diego is an idiot. But I'm just telling you, like, you know, people that are listening to this know exactly the guy in general and wherever he is. And I. As I've gotten older, I, like, I admire that guy. I'll constantly be like, is that guy actually won? Has that guy won? Should we do some shots? Right? He's just figured it out. His level of intelligence is in this perfect window of no Self awareness in the best possible way that he. There's zero hang ups. He's going to talk to everybody. And then when that doesn't work out, he's talking to whoever is right there. And so to become that guy, you know, there's a lot of stuff that goes into becoming that guy. But I would say like the one, like if you needed one thing in basketball, it's like, hey, you want to be able to dribble so you can get to wherever you need to get to on the court. Although shooting's more important probably. But if you're not talkative, if you're not witty, if you're not funny, let them be the lead character. Hammer on making them feel like they're interesting to you. Because most people want to talk about themselves.
- [113:39]
Saruti
Right?
- [113:39]
Ryan Rosillo
But it isn't just like, be ready, be ready to. Not just like, hey, where are you from? Oh, that's interesting. But like, listen to what they're actually saying and let them take the lead. If you're not good and you're not funny and you don't have any of those things, most people will subcont. They don't even realize it. But like, they're like, oh, this guy was such a great hang and you may not have said a fucking word.
- [114:01]
Kyle
Well, you got to ask the right question. I'll end on this. There was a guy in college and we were like trying to like, you know, get on some similar level of like companionship and like, hey, you had a really good night last night. And he basically, we kind of did this and he would basically just ask everyone what their hopes and dreams are. We were in college, so it was sort of like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And it was like, oh, you screwed it up again. So obviously.
- [114:24]
Saruti
He had that question, like.
- [114:25]
Kyle
What are you going to do when you get out of here?
- [114:28]
Saruti
If anyone asks me anything, I'll just go to my go to question.
- [114:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Damn it.
- [114:31]
Kyle
It was like his one go to, like, what do you want to be when you grow up?
- [114:35]
Ryan Rosillo
And I was like, yeah, anyway.
- [114:43]
Bruce Feldman
Yeah.
- [114:43]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, we had one guy that bought coloring books and it worked.
- [114:46]
Kyle
What? In what context?
- [114:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Just no one has coloring books.
- [114:51]
Kyle
And then it was like brought them out.
- [114:53]
Ryan Rosillo
He was young. I mean, we're talking like college. Yeah, it was. And it was like. And they're like, you're still doing that coloring book thing. And he was like, no.
- [115:06]
Kyle
I'm missing the context. Like just at home, like instead of.
- [115:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Like watching his dorm room, he like would break them out. And it would be funny to be.
- [115:13]
Saruti
Put on a list, what's going on here?
- [115:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right. And then it's like. It's like if you did that post 22, like, hey, we're gonna have to have you introduce you to the rest of the building. Yeah.
- [115:23]
Kyle
We'd like to test you, actually, for a couple things. Have you heard of the Spectrum?
- [115:27]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, I think that'll do it. I think we covered a lot of stuff today. Don't know that. We helped a ton. Thanks to Saruti, thanks to Kyle. We got Tom and Kevin, but just Kevin's coming out. Is that true? Kevin doesn't have his mic up. Okay. So we will 80% formed in San Francisco. We'll be live. We got a bunch of guests lined up. We're excited. Got a Warriors game potentially on the books. A couple other things, so we'll have some fun with it. I'm excited to. To get out there. And there you go. We'll have NBA good 10 minutes. We're gonna have that one on Friday. Because of the travel, because I was at the games, I didn't get to watch as much, so I got to get caught up in some stuff. And we didn't want to time something if there is any kind of trade. So we'll have that up on YouTube tomorrow as well. Brian Rosulo show Barstool Sports. Sa.