The Ryen Russillo Show – Knicks Win the NBA Cup, Plus Brian Windhorst on Wemby, OKC vs. Prime Warriors & LeBron’s Future (Dec 17, 2025)

Episode Overview

In an episode packed with NBA deep dives, Ryen breaks down the Knicks' NBA Cup win, examines their evolution versus last year, and canvasses the competitive landscape in the East. ESPN’s Brian Windhorst joins to discuss building around Victor Wembanyama, compare the current OKC team to the historic Warriors, and unpack the increasingly complicated question of LeBron’s NBA future. The guys also touch on the changing nature of NBA trades, the Giannis timeline, and have a little fun with a roster swap thought exercise. Listeners also get the signature 'Life Advice' segment, covering everything from samurai phases to tricky friend dilemmas.

Knicks' NBA Cup Win & What It Means (00:00–12:49)

Main Points:

• Knicks Win NBA Cup: “What does it mean? It means the Knicks are really good. Okay, we knew the Knicks were good last year… there’s just something about them that feels a little bit better than last year.” (A, 04:13)
• Offensive Rebounding Dominance: Knicks' offensive rebounding was key, fueling a pivotal 19-3 run that swung the game from an 11-point deficit to a 5-point lead.
• Wembanyama’s Night: Wemby had 25 minutes, faded in the fourth. Teams are using physical, smaller defenders (like Anunoby) to rough him up and sap his space.
• Knicks vs. East: Knicks’ current level and improved performance are more believable than many other "newcomer" East teams. They're fun, have personalities, and the competition in the East has changed.
• Comparing Last Year to Now: Knicks were 15–23 vs. teams .500+ last season; this year, they’re 8–5 so far. Offense is 2nd-best in league; rebounding and defense are improved.

Notable Quote:

“The Knicks are so much fun when it’s rolling… Even if the Brunson off-arm bullshit and all the initiating contact stuff that he does drives me absolutely fucking crazy every single night.” – Ryen (09:48)

Knicks' Organizational Decisions & Tibbs/Mike Brown Transition (12:49–19:35)

Discussion with Brian Windhorst

• Evaluating the Coaching Swap: Windhorst calls it “a tough thing to explain.” Says the decision to move on from Thibodeau after a successful run was controversial but perhaps necessary for long-term improvement.
• Complication Without a Successor Ready: Knicks scrambled in their coaching search, benefitting opposing coaches with extensions.
• Respect for Thibodeau: “He really is a wonderful guy to spend time with. I understand why certain players really fall for him and want to play for him. He’s tough.” – Windhorst (17:05)

The State of the East & Cleveland’s Collapse (19:35–27:01)

• Detroit's Surge is “More Real”: Russillo and Windhorst see Detroit as legit, more so than hot starts by Miami/Toronto.
• Cleveland’s Shooting Regression: Cavs fell from first to 28th in 3P%. Windhorst explains injuries and personnel swaps, especially losing Ty Jerome for Lonzo Ball and missing Max Strus, have gutted their shooting.
• No Panic on Defense: Windhorst says if their defense slips, it’s red-alert, but currently, it’s acceptable.

Notable Quote:

“How do you go from first to 28th [in three-point shooting]? I just explained it.” – Windhorst (24:22)

San Antonio Spurs, Wemby, and Building for the Future (27:01–33:15)

• Stephon Castle’s Emergence: Spurs are ecstatic about Castle’s fit with Victor. “I’m not sure they would trade him for anybody in the league.” – Windhorst (28:48)
• Wembanyama’s Development: Game wasn’t a referendum with limited minutes, but Windhorst disappointed by a stretch of “settling” for jumpers under stakes, expecting a learning experience.

Notable Quote:

“Teams love their rookie… I cannot tell you how much the Spurs loved Castle. When they got him, like right out of the gate, they were like, oh my God, do we love this guy?” – Windhorst (29:01)

The New NBA Trade Environment & The Giannis Timeline (33:23–42:58)

• 'Apron Era' Has Changed Everything: More teams value depth/flexibility over acquiring stars with big contracts due to CBA changes.
• Trade Machine is “A Lot Less Fun”: The cap complexities make even allowed trades sometimes unworkable.
• On Giannis/Bucks' Window: Russillo and Windhorst agree Milwaukee has squeezed every drop from their core, but they're now at the end of their run.
• Why Not an In-Season Giannis Trade? If a team like the Spurs or OKC resists shaking up their young core, the market may not be as hot as fans expect.

Notable Quotes:

“The trend in the league right now is that depth and flexibility are valued more than sort of star talent now, superstar talent.” – Windhorst (34:02)

“When you have a generational player … I have nothing to say about the Bucks organization about them trying to make this work. … But they know that it puts them in a bad position, both PR-wise and in trade-wise, if they’re the ones to wave the flag first.” – Windhorst (41:38)

The Lakers, Luka, and LeBron’s Future (45:08–56:13)

• Building Around Luka: Lakers’ only true constant for the future is Luka. Even Austin Reaves’ long-term status is uncertain. Any trade must fit around Luka “for the long haul.”
• LeBron Looking Older: His recovery from injuries has been slow; the Lakers can’t give him another $50m+ contract at age 41–42, even if he’s the “greatest 41-year-old athlete.”
• What Happens Next? Discussion about LeBron potentially accepting a mid-level exception or minimum to keep playing. Both agree his days as a $50M man are done, but his willingness to take less is unknown.

Notable Quotes:

“If you’re going to dip into those assets, it’s got to be Luka-based.” – Windhorst (47:46)

“You just can’t have a 42-year-old on a $60 million deal. You just can’t.” – Windhorst (51:28)

Thunder vs. Historical Warriors Offenses (56:13–63:39)

• Measuring the Modern Offense: Russillo notes every year there’s a “greatest offense ever” due to rising pace/stats, but OKC’s defense this year is exceptional. Points out that the 2017 Warriors’ legendary offense would only be 14th today in raw numbers—due to league-wide inflation.
• Warriors Without Durant? Debates whether Golden State wins the 2017 title without KD. Windhorst argues the Cavs were a much tougher opponent that year and KD was the difference. Both appreciate the shifting standards in how dominant teams are discussed.

Notable Quotes:

“I have all the information now, and I have a fraction of the certainty.” – Windhorst quoting Sam Presti (61:39)

Fun Thought Exercise: Roster Swap & Team Building (63:39–68:50)

• Would You Trade the Entire Nets Roster for [Insert Young Star]? Windhorst: “There is no package of players that the Nets would not trade for Con Knippel.”
• Smart Rebuilding vs. Luck: The value of scorched-earth rebuilds depends on lottery luck (Nets vs. Spurs/Wizards); culture helps but lottery luck is everything.
• Cooper Flagg’s Specialness: Flagg's off-hand defense and physical readiness as a teenager draw comparisons to LeBron’s debut year.

Life Advice & Podcast Announcements (71:18–96:58)

Netflix Deal Announcement (71:18–74:00)

• The Ryen Russillo Show is coming to Netflix alongside Part of My Take and Spittin’ Chiclets.
• No format changes, but looking forward to a bigger audience and video distribution.

Book/TV Club Banter (74:10–77:56)

• Team (Ryen, Ceruti, Kyle) considers launching a listener book club, possibly with “The Book of Five Rings” or “Shogun” as first picks.
• Amusing segment about samurai, daggers, and the temptation of starting hobby weapon collections as adults.

Celebrating Teammates – The Josh Hart/Brunson Moment (78:00–79:48)

• Discussion of Josh Hart’s viral in-game celebration with Brunson; segues into sports/social norms and how locker room culture differs from family events.

Life Advice: Nugget Fan’s New Year’s Dilemma (83:28–87:13)

• Listener asks for advice: should he fly back solo on New Year’s Eve to see Jokic in Toronto, leaving wife and baby at in-laws?
• Resounding NO from the team: “This is dumber than the guy trying to live with his buddies.” – Ryen (84:44)
• Suggests family comes first, plus Jokic will be just as good next year.

Life Advice: Friend Catches Cheating on Buddy Trip (90:11–96:21)

• Listener’s friend cheats on his wife during a trip; listener tells his own wife, who is upset and bans him from associating with the friend.
• Advice is to leverage honesty to rebuild trust with spouse—remind her telling the truth shows character and that friend’s behavior is not contagious.

Notable Quote:

“These should be things in your favor of like, I’m going to golf with him. I’m not going to have an orgy with him. Problem solved.” – Ryen (96:21)

Memorable Quotes

On Knicks’ Identity:

“The Knicks are so much fun when it’s rolling and I think the New York City part of that has something to do with it. But it’s just a really fun team with a lot of really good personalities.” – Ryen (09:48)

On the Apron CBA's Impact On Trades:

“Is it less fun? Hell, yes, it’s a lot less fun. ... Now you gotta have Bobby Marks in your phone because the trade machine isn’t fun anymore.” – Windhorst (36:05)

On Building Around Stars:

“You can do it both ways. But I’m just saying… the Nets would have been in a better spot if they had the fourth pick.” – Windhorst (67:15)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00 – 12:49: Knicks Cup win analysis; comparison to last year
• 12:49 – 19:35: Organizational overhaul, coaching change, respect for Thibodeau
• 19:35 – 27:01: State of the East; Cleveland’s shooting woes explained
• 27:01 – 33:15: San Antonio rebuild; Castle's stardom; Wemby’s growth areas
• 33:23 – 42:58: NBA trade market changes, the realm of Giannis as trade target
• 45:08 – 56:13: Lakers’ future, Luka’s supporting cast, LeBron’s contract realities
• 56:13 – 63:39: Thunder vs. prime Warriors hypothetical; the danger of greatest-of-all-time debates
• 63:39 – 68:50: Roster swap games; the lottery and team-building philosophies
• 71:18 – 74:00: Netflix move and what’s next for the pod
• 78:00 – 79:48: Hilarious NBA locker room antics (Josh Hart incident)
• 83:28 – 87:13: Life advice: Jokic vs. New Year’s with the in-laws
• 90:11 – 96:21: Life advice: Friend’s infidelity at golf trip and the burdens of being the witness

Closing Thoughts

A quintessential Russillo Show episode: rapid-fire, deeply informed NBA analysis with personality, laughs, and a willingness to engage with “what ifs,” big-picture trends, and the often-messy life choices of both NBA franchises and listeners. Windhorst provides a top-shelf front office perspective, and the episode ends with the Life Advice crew in rare form, mixing New Year’s regrets, locker room humor, and the dignity of being a grown man who does not, in fact, need to buy a katana.