← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
Knicks Win the NBA Cup, Plus Brian Windhorst Talks Building Around Wemby, OKC vs. the Prime Warriors & LeBron’s Future
01:35:13
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A
Hey, Barstool listeners. You can find every episode of the Ryan Rosillo show on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Lucy's the obvious choice for a true nicotine pouch connoisseurs. That's why their official nicotine pouch partner, Barstool Sports. They go up to 12 milligrams in strength and have unique shape. That feels great. We all use the breakers. They're the only pouches with a hydration capsule inside. They're a totally new kind of pouch, only available from Lucy. You pop it in your mouth, break it with your teeth, and it's instantly hydrated, releasing that nicotine faster, and it's a burst of flavor. No other pouch has that. I promise you that. Gas station pouches get the job done. But once you've tried Lucy, you won't want anything else in your pocket. The Ryan Rosillo show was presented by DraftKings. Little thoughts on the Knicks cup win and also how they stack up in the East. But way more important, we got Brian Windhorst. Yeah, that Brian Windhorse, star of the hoop club collective. He is going to run through the Knicks lessons. What San Antonio is is OKC better than historic Golden State. A lot on Giannis and the market and I didn't even mean to do this, but LeBron's future. Look out breakout aggregators and would you trade knipple for the entire Nets? We got a lot to do. A new announcement with Netflix and life advice and should we all get into the arts? DraftKings sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA is where you want to be. Player Props Live bets, same game parlays Bet on the biggest moments of the holiday season and the stars that make them unforgettable. And remember, DraftKings has your back with early exit. If your player goes down in the first period, you can still get paid in cash. With DraftKings, you're covered through the entire first half. Why bet player props anywhere else? New customers can bet just $5. And if your bet wins, get $200 in bonus bets instantly. Holiday Hoops Limited games cash in. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use the code RYAN. That's code RYAN. R, Y, E, N bet five bucks and get $200 in bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler in New York, call 877-8-Hopeny or text hopeny 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling, call 887-897777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Pass through of per wager. Tax may apply in Illinois 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario, restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio Limited time offer. Brian Windhorst will go a little bit deeper than I'm going to go right now on the Knicks NBA cup win. And look, this stuff, what does it mean? It means the Knicks are really good. Okay, we knew the Knicks were good last year. They made it to these conference finals. There's just something about them that feels a little bit better than last year. I want to run through a little bit of the game and then comparing last year's team and this year's team. The offensive rebounding really was the story. The bench numbers, even though you had a lot of scoring from Harper on San Antonio side, so the bench numbers kind of even out. But Jordan Clarkson had this stretch where he hit a three off an offensive rebound. Thirty seconds later, another three off an offensive rebound. If you look at the scoring here, Wemby hit a three at the end of the third quarter. Well, two minutes or so to go in the third quarter, made it 92, 81. Then you go three minutes into the fourth quarter, there's three threes, two for Clarkson off of Mitchell Robinson offensive rebounds. OG Anunoby another three off of his own offensive rebound. So the Knicks go from down 11 to up 5. It's this 193 run and that's kind of the game. You know, Wembanyama was limited to 25 minutes. He did not have a great fourth quarter only because it was my our standard for him to like come in and almost do the impossible where you know, he had that structure, he had a couple of threes, he hit the mid range, he drives. I don't know if he was tired. I don't know if it's OG Anunoby with the smaller thing that we're seeing against Wembanyama. We've seen it for a while now, is that teams are just like give me a bulldog to just get in his ribs all night long and maybe that slows down his freedom of movement. So we saw it with Caruso to close the game against Oklahoma City and it kind of worked and then also didn't work. And again, I remind you those were straight up defensive possessions. They weren't doubling really at all with Caruso. If you're going to find a double team in there, you certainly can find it. And in this case, it was OG and then when he was out, they were fine with Mitchell Robinson. And, you know, look, sometimes Mitchell would get him and sometimes Wemby would get him. So it wasn't like this thing that you felt like was a major problem one way or the other, but it did feel like Wemby was back to last year's Wembanyama of not being as forceful. And then some of the drives can just get a little awkward. And then he and Kat had like an awkward off. And there's other parts of this game, too, that are important because if you're like, oh, well, if Wemby had played the full game, well, look, heart was limited. He played 29 minutes. We didn't even know a cat was going to come back in the game with this leg thing. But he did come back in at the same time that when many came in to close this one with about just under five minutes to go. Bridges didn't. I didn't see him out there in the fourth quarter. And then the bench part of it, which I think is important, is that it's Clarkson and it's Kolik, who was terrific, had a bunch of little plays and an incredibly smart play where it looked like Wembanyama was in a full sprint. Well, it didn't look like it. He was in a full sprint. And Mitchell Robinson's trying to keep up with them. So this wasn't something like the other centers not getting back in transition like Mitchell's trying to keep up with them. And it looks like it's going to be set up for an incredible lob run for Wembanyama. And Kolik just, you know, it's almost. It wasn't even like a football thing of like chipping the tight end, but maybe, you know, he just makes sure I get in the way a little bit, even though I'm so much smaller. Just really an aware play. I love that kind of stuff. Like, hey, I don't have the ball. Should I be doing anything good? Like, yeah, there's plenty of opportunities. Find work. That's our Mitchell Schwartz quote on what you should be doing if you're in pass protection. Find work. Find work when you're in transition as well in the NBA. So the Knicks are the two seed, two and a half games behind Detroit. The Knicks are 18 and 7. They were 18 and 10 when they had their 18th win. So that was the only thing I was looking at here. Here's something that I think is important. Now, granted this team made it Eastern Conference finals, right? But going into the playoffs we thought of Cleveland, what we thought of Boston. The Knicks are so much fun when it's rolling and I think the New York City part of that has something to do with it. But it's just a really fun team with a lot of really good personalities. Even if the Brunson off arm bullshit and all the initiating contact stuff that he does drives me absolutely fucking crazy every single night Brunson ran over. All right, if you look at last year, this Knicks team went 15 and 23 against teams 500 or better. It's something I look at at the end of the year. Well, I guess I look at it throughout the year. But the end of the year when you're trying to figure out like playoffs does historically that for me has been then an indicator and it can get all jumbled up with do we want to take it a further, you know, step than, you know, who was out, who wasn't out. Especially with some of the seasons that we've had for some of the top players missing games. But as it pertains to that number, I was like 15 and 23. It was the worst of any of the top five seeds records against 500 better. So it's something I'll look at, you know, sometimes with teams like are they a little fraudulent or 8 and 5 against teams that are 500 better so far this year. Looking at the offensive defensive rebounding stuff this year and last year, fifth in offense last year. Number two this year, defense, 13th last year actually 11th and the same number allowed like points per unpresessions is the exact same number so far. 25 games in rebounding is improved just a touch. Fifth in the league. Offensive rebounding's fifth in the league. Offensive rebounding, they just destroyed San Antonio again. I can't say that enough if you missed it because at one point There was like two minutes left in the fourth quarter and they, the Knicks had 12 more field goal attempts so they didn't even have to shoot it. Well even in San Antonio had this stretch of three point shooting that didn't go great. So really what it comes down to is trying to look at this Knicks team and go, all right, are you afraid of Detroit? The Detroit thing is so much more real than the other like newcomer stories. There's talked about the Miami Heat. Correction. It's like, yeah, but they go so fast. Well, now they're losing games again. Toronto I like better than Miami and Toronto I have more respect for watching a play out at the beginning of the season. I don't know that I would pick that team to beat anybody in the playoffs. The Boston thing is maybe more surprising than even the Toronto thing is they've been terrific. I think there's a development storyline with Boston that's incredible. And Jaylen Brown, who I thought probably may be too excited about being the number one option in Tatum's absence, has not only been too excited, there's nothing negative to say about it. It's been unbelievable how efficient this guy's been and how much more of the scoring burden he's taken on, which he thought maybe would be a little bit more challenging because he doesn't have an all NBA guy right next to him. So the east is this Orlando thing that let's see how it looks for the month of everyone actually being there but the Knicks. The point is, is the Knicks, because of Cleveland shooting, fall off where they were the second best first, however you want to frame it for last year they were one of the two best shooting teams in the NBA last year. They're atrocious shooting so far this year. I'm going to ask Windhorse about that one. It's setting up nice for the Knicks. Things will change. People get hurt. People don't get hurt, whatever. But who the Knicks are today, I feel better about who they were a year ago. Not only about the team but also the surrounding competition in the conference basketball season is here. Which means the excitement of being in the stands before tip off is here too. The gametime app gives the advantage back to the fans. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use and the game time guarantee means you can Trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. Plus fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. I booted up the app today and saw Cavs Bulls tickets that start at just $28. I'd love I'd pay $48 to watch the Cavs shoot it a little bit better. I'd pay $68 if I would get a VIP meet and greet with Sam Merrill where he was rude to me.108 if he was going to be nice. Knowing Sam, I'm sure he'd be a hundred. It'd be worth the 108 I think. I think he'd be nice for free. That's just the way I think. He's cut. Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, use the code Rusillo R U S S I L L O2S's, 2L's, cheat code for you there for $20 off your first purchase terms apply again, create an account and redeem the code Rosillo R U S S I L L O for $20 off. Download the Gametime app. Today he joins us from his home. I believe Chris Paul was getting shots up in the background. Brian Windhorst. Yeah, from espn. And my favorite podcast, which at the end of the year, it told me I listened to the most episodes of the Hoop Collective with this guy and his crew. Good to see.
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B
Did our little thing that Spotify, did that play that I recorded, or did you not even see that wrapped? Yeah, yeah.
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A
It was like you're in the 1% of listeners or like. So I'm, I'm like all the way P1 for the wind Horse crew.
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B
And you know that elite status comes with no perks.
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A
I sent it to you, though. I let you know. I don't know what I was doing behind it. I just want to let. I was like, I can actually text this guy.
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C
How cool.
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A
How cool is my.
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B
You're going places, buddy.
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A
My little brother was like, you can, you know him. I was like, well, you know, we're not tight, tight, but it's okay. Shoot a text every now and then. So look, the Knicks win the cup. Another great event. This is just a lot of fun. And then, of course, this always leads to kind of like, what's next? And I ran the numbers in the open of some of the improvements for this team. I don't. I'm starting with a negative question, but I'm going to go ahead and do it. Is it still too early for a team that made it the Eastern Conference finals? But when you understand the front office going, we need to be a little different. And we think long term that makes us better. I don't know if it's a cup win, but based, I guess on what you've seen from the Knicks this year, does it feel like we all understand the Tibbs decision, even though it seemed outrageous based on the team's history?
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B
It's tough, man. It's a tough thing to explain. And I have a lot of Knicks fans in my life and they really wanted explanations. And it's hard to put it into a paragraph, I think. And it's one of these things where it's nuanced, where, yeah, if they win the east this year, they'll be able to say, yep, it worked, but it's possible that they could move the ball down the field and not get farther, which is the difficulty when you're playing high level pro sports. I will say that in this, you know, this particular game, this, you know, taught you some things about the Knicks. I don't know how much of it applies to what's going to happen in the spring, but in this particular game, like Jalen Brunson didn't have a good game. He was good like he had, he had 25 points. But, you know, there's been dozens of games where Jalen Brunson's won them the game. In the fourth quarter he was, he had sort of, by his standards, sort of an average fourth quarter. Carl Towns was, you know, dealing with this leg issue. He didn't even, I don't even think a shot in the fourth quarter. He played for a few minutes, but he was a non factor down the stretch of this game. They started the fourth quarter, I think down four or five and they were down like 15, 12 or something like that in the second, in the third quarter and they make this comeback and put the game away on the back of like Og Anunoby and Mitch Robinson and Tyler Kolik. The fact that I think their bench scored 18 points in the fourth quarter, I think the spurs scored 19 as a team. And again, I'm not arguing that there's, you know, the Jordan Clarkson is the missing piece that will lead them to the finals. Nor am I arguing that Mike Brown's willingness to move off of the game plan in this particular case, again, in this game, this may not happen again. But in this game, the spurs were applying ball pressure because they have great, physical, athletic perimeter defenders. They're applying ball pressure to Brunson, which is, you know, on the first page of the scouting report. It's not like this is unheard of, but it was bothering them a little bit. And so Mike Brown, and I'm sure before the game this was on his option list. I'm not saying, I mean, I'm just, I'm trying not to be too over the top here. But Mike Brown says, you know what, I'm going to put Kolik in there and play with the two small guards to give two ball handlers to give a little bit of a relief on the pressure on Brunson. And it works. And the reason it works is because he had the faith to Play Kolik. You know, even through times when he struggled. You know, again, looking at this game, it's an interesting, you know, showing of how the Knicks have changed their ideology. They're not going anywhere ultimately, unless Brunson is great and unless Towns to is going great and under pressure. But I do think that you can take this slice where they won this, this crown, whatever you want to call it, and, you know, acknowledge that they are, you know, a developing team.
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A
Yeah, I think that's fair because I think any of us that have had any access to tips, it's like.
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B
You.
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A
Never want to sit there and say, like, he's the problem. But I love tips.
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B
I love tips.
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A
But whenever a team has that kind of run, like, it's, it's really easy to fire the coach that's, hey, it's been here three years. This isn't working. Sometimes it's so bad, it's like, okay, the players totally tuned it out. That's where you kind of rely on the people who's around the team every single day. And you talk to them and they're kind of like, look, this thing was, was kind of over. And that's where like, nationally, you can lose that perspective because you're not around it every single day. But for a front office that's done this great of a job overhauling this roster, all the Knicks stuff, and they've got the CAA ties and it's like year after year they're kind of, everybody's laughing at them being like, oh, you're grand plan and like it's not working out. And then it kind of just does, right? And it works out for a million different reasons. And all the different things they pull off, if they're sitting there watching that team play 82 games and make it to these conference finals, they go, there's just something wrong with our approach. And it's a nice run, but we just don't know that it's sustainable. Those are the kind of ones where you almost have to just defer from the outside, even if it just makes no sense because of how much we all love and respect tips.
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B
And the problem was they didn't have a backup plan ready to go. Like, you know, typically, if you're going to move on. Not typically, but a well run organization would have, you know, instead they kind of look bumbling a little bit because they're trying to hire all these coaches who are under contract elsewhere, trying to remember who in the media. I'd like to give them credit. I just don't Remember right now, I think maybe it was Ian Begley and Sny, he was like, you know, the Knicks coaching search was a stimulus package because all these coaches were getting extensions. You know, you know, Billy. You know, I don't. I know I respect Billy Donovan a lot, but I. I'm not sure that his performance level was like begging out for a giant raise in an extension in Chicago. But the Bulls wanted to hire those Knicks wanted to hire him. Next thing you know, he's got a deal. And, you know, you know, I think some of these other guys were probably going to get deals anyway. But the same sort of thing happened, like with. With the Penn State coaching search. You know, there was. Penn State was, you know, they fired their coach, early football coach, you know, midway through the season, and, you know, three or four coaches, you know, just at the specter of maybe being a candidate, got raises. There was a Penn State stimulus. So when you. When you. When you fire a coach who's just led you through your most successful season, 25 years, and then you're. You don't have an ironclad plan, and the perception is you've had. You're hiring your fourth, three or fifth choice. You're going to have to deal with some fallout from that. But the Knicks obviously felt that they had to do it, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. And in my case, I've known Mike Brown for 20 years. I have a lot of respect for him as a coach, and I, on a personal level and on a professional level, love and respect Tom Thibodeau. He's actually. You'd never know it by looking at the press conferences, but he is a very engaging and warm and really charming person. He's gruff, but I worked with him at espn, not to mention comfort him all these years, worked him at espn, and he really is a wonderful guy to spend time with. And I understand why certain players really fall for him and want to play for him. He's tough. But it's a complicated situation that the Knicks have put themselves in, and it's a good situation. Ultimately, you want to be in a situation where you're playing for stakes and you have expectations, but they've put themselves in position where their pathway to call the season success is narrow. And that's why winning this is a. Is a. Is an important step.
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A
Before I want to get to the San Antonio side, I just want to stay in the East a little bit because Detroit just comes out on fire, and that feels more real than maybe some of the other good starts from some of those other teams, like in that pack with Miami and Toronto, I mean Philadelphia, maybe It was like 4 and 1 or something like that. Maybe a month straight of Embiid, they figure some of this stuff out. But it feels like for the Knicks, you know, I still have a lot of faith in Orlando. This Boston thing is incredible. There's maybe a Tatum conversation that changes things around. But you know, the team that won 64 games last year in Cleveland is 15 and 12. They've gone from one of the best shooting teams in the league to one of the worst shooting teams. Sure, there is an excuse of rotational inconsistency here, but I still can't believe it's this bad. And if I'm a Knicks fan, I'm looking around to the rest of the east going like the one expected despite their disappointing playoff exit last year. Like I felt like that would be playoff seasoning for Cleveland. They would run through, they'd win 60 games. I love their options. And yet every night I watch them, I go, you're, you're going to lose to this team tonight. Like, I'm waiting for that switch. And I don't know if you have. It's one thing to say, hey, they can't shoot. I just don't know why.
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B
Yeah, well, so I mean their fans have been incredibly frustrated because they have been falling down, whether it's against teams like Washington or Charlotte. That's their last two games. They've been falling down and playing from behind for like the majority of these games. And then they put together like a run in the fourth quarter where they're giving all this effort and that can be very frustrating for the fans because they're like, why are you playing this way? Even if there's multiple factors that are leading to. It's a terrible look. So you know, their thing is like with anything where you have some sort of, you know, I don't want to say it's a failure, but you know, you have this big letdown. It's not just one thing. They have a number of things, but they were the number one three point percentage team in the league last year and they were the number one offense in the league last year and they generated a lot of three point shots and they, you know, you could say that they probably maybe shot above, maybe they were just maybe a little bit over the over their heads last year, but it doesn't explain how poorly they've been this year. It's multi layered. Number one, because they were worried about their perimeter defense because they felt that they had, you know, their three best perimeter players are Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland and last year Ty Jerome who was six man candidate of sixth man of the year candidate. All three of them are undersized positionally by NBA standards and they were concerned about that. And so they made the decision to basically swap out Lonzo Ball for Ty Jerome. It wasn't a clean exactly situation because they let Ty leave in free agency and they made a trade for Lonzo Ball. But essentially they want, they wanted a bigger guy on the perimeter. Lonzo Ball is not the shooter that Ty Jerome is. And not only that, Lonzo is having a terrible shooting year. He actually after coming back from that injury had demonstrated competence on three point shooting. He is a defensive first player at this point in his career, but he is the fall off from Ty Jerome to Lonzo Ball shooting wise has been huge. Then you have the fact that Max Strus has missed the whole season with a broken foot, the Jones fracture in his foot. Strus is not necessarily like top five three point shooter percentage wise, but he's a reliable guy who puts up high volume at quality percentage and has for years and did throughout all of last season. So now you're down two. Then you've got Darius Garland who was a 40% three point shooter last year who has injured his toe and he re injured it early this season. And you can tell he's playing hurt. And last Friday for example In Washington he was 0 of 11 on threes of 11. And you know he is shooting. He's terrible. He's had the, I think the second or third biggest point drop of anybody. So now there's a third three point shooter. Then Sam Merrill who was the guy that they decided to keep when they. Sam Merrill was a free agent and Ty Jerome was a free agent and you know, they were both sort of undersized perimeter players. They elected to re sign Merrill and let Jerome walk. It really upset Ty Jerome. He said as much. He really thought that he really liked his role in Cleveland. But they decided they needed Ball and Merrill, they liked the way Merrill fit better. Another 40% three point shooter. You know, a guy who come off the bench last year. Well, this year he's missed the majority of the games with various injuries and I think he's missed Maybe the last 12 or so games with a, with a hand injury. That's four three point shooters. So they had four guys who were plus three point shooters last year who were like, you know, I don't know if they were all over 40%. But they were killer. All four of them either no longer on the team or dramatically impacted. And you get into a situation. Now how do you explain a team going from first? Last time I checked, I don't know where they are right now. They're 28th in three point shooting. How do you go from first to 28th? I just explained it. Not to mention maybe some guys are just not shooting it great right now. So their defense remains okay. It's not elite, but I think they've generally stuck around the top 10. Now Evan Mobley is out for two to four weeks. He's their best defender. They may have some slippage there, but I would be more sounding the red alarm. If they were 28th in defense, then I would think they got big trouble because they're defending still okay. And none of those guys are out for the year. It's not like these, you know, even Strus is, you know, making his way back and you look at the Eastern conference and nobody's 24 and 2. Granted, Detroit looks good. I'm being long winded here, Ryan. I'm sorry.
- [25:32]
A
Hey, man.
- [25:33]
B
Yeah, so anyway, you're giving us the.
- [25:35]
A
Explanation though, you know, like, I'll admit, like, there's still like, I was watching Garland in a Charlotte game and I was like, he's really good in the paint. Like, he's actually getting like he's pretty quick on some of this stuff. And then I would look up like two possessions later, I go, is he actually like. I was like, he's actually struggling again. So like I'm looking for those moments of his quickness where it's not the toe. And then I'll. I'll be kind of tricked into thinking he's all right. And then I can see him kind of like laboring a bit, you know, and then I was like, ah, all right, so, you know, here you go.
- [26:01]
B
He did look a little bit better the last two games. And you know, you know, again, he. One of the games, he was O11 from three, but he. When he, he re aggravated the injury in Miami about three, four weeks ago and he was not being able to get by guys in the perimeter. And that was a real concern. I remember I watched the Hawks play back to back games. The Hawks played in Cleveland and then in Philly a couple of weeks ago. And I saw Darius Garland not be able to get past the Hawks size. He just, he couldn't outrun them, I assume because of that foot. And then they played in Philly two nights later and Maxi scored like 47. I don't remember what he had, but it was. He had like. And it was just like the difference between seeing Maxi and Garland, who have similar styles. They both are speed players. I was like, man, that. It's a little bit worrisome for Garland, but he has gotten better. He's gotten healthier. He's looked. You are correct. I think he's looked better the last couple of games. We'll see if that takes on the.
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A
San Antonio side of things because it's always a bigger picture. I mean, the cup story is a lot of fun. It's nice. The whole thing with Wembuyama on a minutes limitation, 25 in the game last night, it's not the full version of it, but whatever I thought of Castle coming out, he was kind of marketed as a point guard before the draft. And I was like, look, I like him. And I remember watching one of the tournament games in person and they were up. Was it Elon or Stetson or somebody? They were up like 40. And I go, this guy's running through screens like they're down two with a minute to go, you know? So, like, there was a lot of stuff with him you could see. And I talked to Hurley about it. I was like, I don't know what you. How you get this guy to do this kind of stuff. You know what I mean? But, like, that's. That was the first thing that jumped out of me. They're getting destroyed and he is playing defense and fighting through screens. And now you see him as an NBA player. You're like, all of this makes sense, you know, that his mentality. But I still thought offensively, I'm like, I'm not really sure what he is. I'm not sure he's a point guard. I love him. I love his aggressiveness. I love his attack.
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C
I love.
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A
I think long term. I can't believe I'm even saying this this soon into it. But, like, you know, Darren Fox is. Even if you aren't a de' Aaron Fox guy, his ability to get to a spot and pull up in those closing get us a bucket moments, like, he is one of those guys. But Castle breaking the paint and then keeping the play alive, if he doesn't have what he needs, he's already incredibly physical. He's already smart with his body. And I know you and Bobby Marks and Vincent Goodwill. One of the recent episodes that I was listening to were kind of talking about Castle and it's like I used to kind of laugh, like, all right, if Giannis is available, and you're not going to trade like, any of the guards, you know, and it depends on the market, depends on who you're bidding against. But after what I've seen this season, I'm just telling you, like, I'm with you now. Like, you know, you would just go, hey, if you. If you want to make any deal with the spurs, you're just not getting that guy.
- [28:49]
B
I'm not sure they would trade him for anybody in the league.
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A
Okay.
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B
I. I can't. I can't tell you because the thing about it is, like, now, by the.
- [28:57]
A
Way, now you went too far, or maybe they're going too far.
- [29:02]
B
So I. Okay. Teams love teams. You know, parents love their child. Breaking news. Teams love their rookie. You know, you go around and you hear, oh, man, we love this guy. We love this guy. I cannot tell you how much the spurs loved Castle. When they got him, like, right out of the gate, they were like, oh, my God, do we love this guy? You know, and they are convinced that he is the perfect guy to have with Victor. So. Okay, you do. Never say never. You know, we have this sort of thing now or whenever we come up against something we think is highly unlikely. We're like, well, the Lakers did get Luca, you know, so, like, on that. On that standard, true, you know, I guess if Jokic was available and they said, you can have Jokic, but you got to give us Castle. All right, so they love Castle, and, you know, he had 12 assists in that game. And they love every. They love everything about his makeup. They love everything about the way he competes. They love everything about how his willingness to improve. They love sleep. Stefan Castle, man. I mean, so, yes, I think the spurs are in a position where they've got these. This. You know, there's three guards who are all really good, and they've got these draft assets, and there's going to be this temptation to do you do something to try to accelerate your championship pursuit, you know, and the Thunder went through this. You know, there were calls for a year plus, go out and get player X, and it turned out that that player was. You know, they did. By the way, they. It wasn't like they didn't do anything. They went out and got Alex Caruso, and they went out and signed Isaiah Hartenstein. Like, they went out and acquired guys who were not in their organization. I don't want to make it seem like they just sat on their. Their. Their group and let it all happen, but they resisted. Sam Presti was like, I believe in this core and the way we're going to improve is we're going to do it internally, we're going to develop, we're going to finish our breakfast was the way he said it. The spurs and the Pistons are two teams that are faced with that sort of same situation. They both have extra draft capital and they both have expiring contracts. They both have young pieces other people want. It's going to be some temptation and I'm not saying the spurs will resist, but I would be stunned if they didn't give. If they gave Castle away for almost anything. I will say the thing about last night and it's hard to totally analyze Wembanyama in this spot because number one, as you mentioned, he's coming off the injuries on a minutes restriction. You know, they played him into a rotation that you would not normally see from him and he had the death of his family, which he clearly was affecting him. So it's hard to like make a level headed analysis of it. I will say though that when your team is in trouble in the fourth quarter in a game with stakes, which is what happened here, he came back in with five minutes and change left and he had, I think the team was down four or five at that point. And in three of the next four or five possessions he took what I considered poor long range shots. I think two twos and one long or two threes and one long two. And what took Victor to the next level this year was his unwillingness to settle. Obviously he can put the ball on the floor. Obviously he can stretch the floor. That's part of his game. But when they need a basket, Victor showed earlier this year that, you know, in his improvement and his improved physique that he could go inside. And I was disappointed that he didn't in a game with stakes do that. And I suspect that he will take what happened in the fourth quarter. He'll take a learning experience from that.
- [33:03]
D
Yeah.
- [33:04]
A
After what he did to the Thunder, you're just waiting. You're waiting at that five minute mark, you know, because they put. Because you didn't know if Kat was coming back in. And you're right, they were down five and they bring him back in and we're like, is he going to solve this? And it did feel.
- [33:15]
B
I thought he would. I was waiting for it. I was like, when are they going to put him back in? Okay, here he comes. And it just didn't happen.
- [33:23]
A
Is the trade market less fun because of the new financial. Well, they're not new financial restrictions, but now that we have a few cycles of this with the first and second apron and you look around, it just feels like teams are going, even a guy that we may not have loved in the past and kicked the tires on because we believe in the talent or whatever. Usually when you're arguing with change of scenery, you're just ignoring the obvious signs here. But it feels like any fan base that has a guy that maybe the franchise is willing to turn the page on, if he's really expensive, be prepared to be stuck with him. That's just kind of the way it feels now.
- [34:03]
B
Yeah. The trend in the league right now is that depth and flexibility are valued more than sort of star talent now, superstar talent. There's always a demand. You know, if. If you're going to put Luca on the market, like, there will be those. That's a trade that's going to get done. You know, if. If Giannis comes to market and it's still an if, whether it's this season or next summer, a trade will get done. But there's this collection of players out there who are big on salary and a lot of them have salary, some red mark on their cv, whether it's an injury history or, you know, maybe their age or they want a new contract. Like, these are guys that you would have no problem trading two, three years ago. That because of the reality of the aprons and because of the way teams are prioritizing depth and team building in the apron era, where it's just harder to trade them, it's hard. It's going to be harder to trade them. And you know, nowadays, like it used to be, you know, when you tried to do a mid season trade, like, oh my gosh, can we get the salaries to match? You know, that was a whole thing that fans learned. I watched it happen over the course of 20 years. You know, the trade machine, fans learned how to use the trade machine and learned how you have to have some level of matching salaries. And I watched fans really get a lot smarter. And it's one of the things that fans love to do. Fans love to, you know, with their friends or on social media. They like, they like the challenge of going into the trade machine and finding a trade that not only was legal, but that might actually be possible. And now you gotta have Bobby Marks in your phone because the trade machine.
- [35:54]
A
Isn'T fun anymore because you can post something that says it works and then, you know, within five minutes, you know, the guys that are really on the cap every day are gonna be like, actually with the first apron or whatever. And you're like, yeah, but it says green.
- [36:06]
B
I know. It's exactly right. So is it less fun? Hell, yes, it's a lot less fun. It's a lot less fun. And, you know, I talk to people. I'm from Cleveland. I talk to people in Cleveland every day. And there's people who are so frustrated with the Cavs performance, and they're, like, pitching me all these trades, and I'm like, I know that this is so boring, and you're going to hate me. Say this. Second apron, second apron, second apron. And it's terrible terminology, and it's frustrating, but that's the reality of where we are.
- [36:35]
A
You mentioned the Yanis timeline, and look, I doubt you've listened to my full perspective on this going back to the summer, but I remember at the combine how specific all the conversations were. And when you hear specific stuff, you're like, okay, so this is happening. They're what, 4 and 1? 4 and 2. They get off to this little start. It's like, well, what if they. And you're like, are you watching this team? And I remember watching that Wizards game late. Giannis is, like, 35ft away from the hoop, and he's going to figure out a way to go through five guys. He scores. He gets the end one. He puts his head down. And it just felt like in that moment where he's looking around going like, am I going to have to do this the rest of the year? I've heard a lot of people say, hey, it makes way more sense. Everybody's more settled. They're a little bit more proactive. They can plan this out. It makes sense. In the summer, you get closer to the draft, maybe you know the value of a pick. All these different things, all of those things are entirely fair. Maybe it's too much work, and maybe you have more of a market, because if you're a horse, you have to figure out how to get a market here. But if Giannis is saying, I only want to go here, or if San Antonio goes, you know what? We're not trading any of our good guys. And we kind of like this. Just like, okc, to your point, like, we might just kind of stick with our guys instead of just disrupting the whole thing. And then, you know, with Giannis's injury history, that's another part of it, too. I think there is a counter to that, though, where if you were proactive about it and you're not that concerned about the injury this year, you're getting two Playoff runs out of him.
- [37:59]
B
Right.
- [38:00]
A
And if you're a team that feels like you're in that beefy second tier of maybe both conferences here, you know, outside of okc, outside of Denver, we'll get to la. You know, whatever you think of the east at this point, I understand the arguments for the summer, but I feel like the arguments before the deadline are being dismissed.
- [38:20]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think it all depends on what you just said it. What deal can you get? You know, I think the Bucks. Two things I always point out about the Bucks. One, they've been. I don't think they're a championship contender right now. I don't mean to be insulting, but I don't think they're a championship contender right now.
- [38:39]
A
This will probably be the breakout video, right?
- [38:42]
B
Exactly. And. But they were for like seven or eight years and they did win one, which is one of the reasons why I talk about no one should ever devalue a championship. I do not believe in asterisks, more than one. I don't know how many, what you say. I do not believe putting an asterisk on a title because I've been around too long and I know how hard they are to win. And they put themselves in position for at least four or five years where they were, you know, a leading candidate, a leading contender to win. And you're. And the league is not set up to do that. You're not supposed to be able to contend for seven, eight straight eight years. The systems and the realities of the modern league, especially when they were in that run from like, you know, 2018 to 2024, that's, that's your life cycle, you know, that's it. Like. And they had terrible fortune with Giannis getting hurt in the playoffs, Chris Middleton getting hurt in the playoffs. I mean, that year, that one, I covered that seven game series with the Celtics in 22. If Chris Milton isn't hurt, I think the Bucks win the series and you know, like, I don't know what would happen against the, the, the warriors. Maybe, maybe the Bucks get that done. But Milton gets hurt one year, Giannis gets hurt one year in the playoffs, and Dame gets hurt one year in the playoffs. They had three years that were totally kneecapped by misfortune in timing of injuries. And so what I'm saying here is that it's not like there was a failure. They built great teams year after year after year. And one year they broke through and got it done and a couple of years things didn't go their way. They are now at the end of the life cycle, and they've been at the end of the life cycle for a couple of years now, and they've done everything in their power to extend it, which is what the dame trade was. That was, you know, that was their trying to extend it. And then they, you know, quadruple down and try the Miles Turner thing. And they're going to. It sounds like they're thinking about trying something again, which is to. Is, you know, they have one pick left out there that they could trade, and in theory, they could combine a couple of their contracts that they've got. They've got a couple of contracts they could put out there and they could quintuple down on it. But their. But their life cycle as a champion is probably over. Not because of incompetence or because they're fools, but because that's just the way it is. And it just so happened that they have a player who is outlived their life cycle, okay? So that's one thing. The second thing is. And they're trying to. They're raging against the dying of the light on that, okay? The second thing is that Kareem Abdul Jabbar asked for a trade in 1972. I think it was 72.
- [41:38]
A
That sounds right.
- [41:39]
B
71, I think. Maybe. Anyway, when they traded Kareem, they did not get back to the finals for 40 years. 40. Okay. And so when you have a generational player, a multi generational player in a market like Milwaukee, I can understand saying, my God, you exhaust, and I mean in every stretch of the word, exhaust every. And squeeze out every season and squeeze out every month, because when that player goes away, it might be 40 years before you're back. So I have nothing to say about the Bucks organization, about them trying to make this work. I totally get it. That said, if you're looking at it fairly, they're just not there. But they know that it puts them in a bad position, both public relations wise and in trade wise if they're the ones to wave the flag first. So that's the sort of stare down that they're at while they try to again, try to find. The Hail Mary and Hail Marys have worked. I've, you know, it's happened. But they're trying to find the lightning in a bottle, and I respect the process they're going through to try to find it.
- [42:59]
A
It's official. The Big Shack is out now. Let's run through it. We're talking two Angus beef patties, three buns, new secret Sauce. It's stacked, balanced, and built the right way. You get everything you expect from Shake Shack. Fresh ingredients, that toasted potato bun and sauce that pulls the whole thing together for 999. It's kind of wild how much burger you're getting, especially one that doesn't taste like typical fast food. It's big, it's fresh, and it's legit. One of their best burgers yet. You know, it's funny. I've read this ad a few times, and it's dawned on me. It's stacked, balanced, and built the right way. That's how I'd like government to run this whole time. Twain's line, there's no good government, Right? Well, why is that? Are we focusing on the wrong things? Because if I were to put together a society and said, hey, let's make this just like the big shacks, Stacked, balanced, and built the right way, is there any better foundation for an emerging market than that? I think they just solved. I think we just solved a lot of stuff right there. Because when I look at the burger, next time I'm gonna look at it and be like, you know, this is, I think, what the founding fathers are thinking about this burger right here. I mean, sure, there's other stuff that you had to do, but if you wanted any sort of expression of freedom, if you wanted to make sure that you stood out and, like, we have real resources here, I think the American flag, if it were a burger, it wouldn't be the worst idea. If you've been waiting to see what all the hype's about, today's the day. Go to Shake Shack and order the big shack. Sounds familiar. Made different. Are you a Lakers record talent? Let LeBron ease into this thing, the Ayton thing, especially knowing he's going to be playing with Luca. And based on cost and need, it's been a home run form. So much better than the rotational center options are. Are you that guy? Are you like, hey, what's going on with that number? What's up with that net rating? Yeah, what's happening over there? Like, they may need to add to this. Which. Which camp are you in with? The Lakers.
- [45:08]
B
Yeah. So this. The strange thing about the. Not strange, but the reality about the lake is I have no idea who's going to be on this roster in two years other than Luka. Luka will be there. Even Austin Reaves. Austin Reaves probably is going to be there. They're probably offering him a max at the end of the year, and he's probably signing it, but he's an unrestricted free agent, and there will be teams out there who will offer him a great opportunity. I don't think it's necessarily a better opportunity than being a star player in Los Angeles, but I don't know who's going to be on this team. So their future. Their future is built around. They are under the mandate to build around Luka. And I don't know if these players, any of them are going to be there for a couple of years. So I do recognize that they might be slightly overachieving, but also they had injuries. The luka injury, the LeBron injury, and the fact that they've come through those injuries with such a great record and that they've been so good in clutch games has given them flexibility to try to do something this year. And they have expiring contracts and they have draft assets. They've already shown a willingness to move those draft assets because they made the Mark Williams trade. If they, if they didn't have a willingness for the move the draft assets, they wouldn't have done that trade, even though they rescinded it. But whatever they do, they have to be thinking about two years from now, if they're going to do a trade for a player and they're going to use draft capital, it's got to be a player who fits next to Luka for the long haul. At the end of the trade, we've got to say, okay, Luka is going to be a Laker in two years, and this guy or these guys are going to be Lakers in two years. So that's the needle they got to thread, and they got to do that in the apron era. And they've got. They're hard capped because they use their exceptions to build out their team. I think that they're performing really well. They're doing great. I am pleased and relieved that LeBron is rounding more into form his first few games. Coming out of that sciatica, it's not a surprise, but he looked his age and I mean, I was definitely willing to give him the time and the grace, but it was a little bit shaking, jarring to see how much older he looked year over year. So I like all of those things. I think all of those things are looking good. But if they do do a trade, which I would get, it can't be to try to maximize this season unless it's literally for nothing, unless you're paying nothing. If you're going to dip into those assets, it's got to be Luca Based.
- [47:47]
A
Medium term, do you think LeBron's a full mid level next summer?
- [47:53]
B
So let me ask you, you know in, in LA or somewhere else, I.
- [47:56]
A
Was just thinking about because I was watching, I was watching the Mark Williams Ayton tension game by the way. That was, that was fun to see those guys going at it. This time it's personal.
- [48:07]
B
The Lakers and sons have turned into a nice little, a nice little thing.
- [48:11]
A
That was, that was a wild game, wild game. And, and the Lakers held on and pulled that one out. But I was watching LeBron and I was looking at some of the lineup stuff and it's, there's, there's not a ton but it's like the most played lineup with Smart has a great net rating. And then the second most played lineup with LeBron in for Smart. The other four guys are the same. The net rating is atrocious. Now there's been some stuff numbers wise there that would tell you like have you looked at like the long term on off stuff here with LeBron? And I did start thinking about it. I did start thinking about it. Look offensively, when you know where you're going as an athlete, you're going to look a lot more athletic than when you don't know where you're going. You know when you just like whenever he takes off like this is the thing with LeBron sometimes I think is silly is like he'll take off and dunk from like 10ft out and it's like, well he's still 6, 8, he's 40, he's not 80. Like he should be able to do this. But then when it's, you've got to recover, you've got to react. That's where the age starts showing up on that kind of stuff. And yeah, I know you're pivoting the question back to me. I'm not stalling because I don't have an answer other than that's going to be one of the most interesting things where you know, go back to even this summer. I was like what are they mad about? He picked up the option for 50 plus million and rich Paul even comes out is like he's not getting traded. Like who, who would he possibly get traded for? So there was like a bunch of energy wasted on all that kind of stuff. I don't, I don't. He might just want to stay in la, but God, that could get, it's going to be really interesting no matter what because I don't think there's any indication that he doesn't want to play. And I would still think that he would probably retire in a way where we would know. I don't think he would just surprise everybody.
- [49:50]
B
I agree. I think he was really good last year. He had a really good year last year and I think he went into this summer and he had two injuries, which people think about the sciatica, but he sprained his knee, which derailed his typical summer. So he was dealing with two injuries and he still recovering from those injuries. You know, when you're 40, about to be 41 in like two weeks, he, you know, he's, you know, you don't just bounce back. So he's recovering from those injuries still. So assuming that recovery continues to progress and he doesn't have another one, which he very, Mel, he very may. Well, I do think, you know, in his brain, like he understands he's going year to year, but he probably didn't think, you know, when he was starting the playoff run last year when they won the number three seed and he had Luka and they were looking great, he probably thought, you know, I might be able to do this for a little while longer. And so I think that's probably still there. And he'll have to see where he feels there's only a certain amount of places he can play. Right. He's for 100 different reasons, he's going to be limited. The other thing is in the, in 2025, about to be 2026, you can't have a team where you've got three gigantic salaries where those three guys aren't like studs. You know, this is where you get into problems. So it's not realistic for a 41 year old, even if he's the greatest 41 year old athlete the world has ever seen to make the salary that he's making, which the Lakers knew, which is why there was one. You know, there was a couple of reasons why there wasn't a contract extension. But the Lakers knew that with where the league is right now, you just can't, you can't have a 42 year old on a $60 million deal. You just can't. And so the question is going to be, how does his body feel monetarily? What's he willing to do? Because if he's willing to play for the mid level, is he willing to play for the minimum? And you know, for the last 15 years, LeBron's been very attuned to maximizing his salary because he felt he was underpaid and he felt he was underpaid for the first few, the middle part of his career there. And he was like, I'm going to make sure I get taken care of. And I don't blame him because even now at $50 million, what his value to the Lakers is, is probably not accurate.
- [52:21]
A
I just want to emphasize the point on the salary though, too historically, because I remember one time having a conversation with somebody, you know, plugged in and was like, do you know LeBron's never been the highest paid player in the NBA? And I was like, yeah, but it's like he's like two off and he's. He's like right there. And it was like, he's never been the highest. And it was like this point of pride. It was like contentious almost. So I'm just backing up everything. Not that anybody be questioning any of this.
- [52:47]
B
Twelfth season, before he was the highest paid player on his team, there were times when he was tied for the highest paid salary. To be clear, didn't matter was his 12th season. And that was one of the things, you know, in 2014 when he was making the decision to come to Cleveland, one of the only messages that Rich Paul was willing to say to teams was, lebron will be making the max. Because there was this belief, you remember at that time, Carmelo took less than the max. And I think it was actually maybe that year or the year before, but Phil Jackson talked, Carmelo went into taking less than The Max, and LeBron and Wade and Bosch had taken a slight haircut less than the max. And LeBron wanted to set the tone that I'm done taking less than the max. And that has really carried the day for the last decade. Plus, I assume he would soften on that. And how far he willing to soften on that is unknown. Just as much as his, you know, but I can remember him very. And in fact, part of the reason that the move to Cleveland was delayed slightly is that the Cavs didn't have enough cap space. They had to make a trade. And in fact, I've written about this. I don't know if, you know, if the Cavs were like hoping that he would take less than the max, but like they hadn't cleared the cap space. And LeBron's agents, Mark Termini was also his agent at the time and he was calling the Cavs, he was calling David Griffin. Do you have the max slot? No, we're still working on it. Click. You know, six hours later, do you have the max slot? While we're still working on. Click. You know, let us know when you have the max slot spot. And they made this like three team trade to offload salary, cost him a first round pick, whatever. But yeah, so the max has been very important to LeBron. And so obviously that's going to have to be compromised if he wants, I think, obviously if he wants to be a Laker, because they don't think the Lakers can do that anymore.
- [54:50]
A
I would say he fits the Clippers timeline going into next year, but with Chris Paul not being on the team now, I don't know if it's, if it's the match timeline wise.
- [55:01]
B
Yeah, if, if the Clippers remain committed to 27. The cap is in 27. But I got to tell you, like, I, that's what I'm saying. Like, what are his real options? Like, I can't see LeBron being a Clipper. I just can't see it.
- [55:14]
A
I mean, I don't think you can do it in this town, you know, I just don't.
- [55:19]
B
I can see LeBron as a Cav or as a Laker. I suppose I could see him maybe one or two other places. Like, I could, I could construct, you know, something. I could see that. I mean, you know, but he doesn't have anything to prove. You know, he doesn't, he doesn't need anything.
- [55:39]
A
So he just might want to still keep playing. Like, if the Knicks were really good.
- [55:43]
B
And I think he can keep playing with the Lakers, he's just not going to do it at 50 million. Like, I think that's like, there's a lot of things going, you know, I understand what you're saying about the lineup data, that. The lineup Data shows that LeBron, Reeves and Luca together to this point has not been productive. And so that makes you wonder, like, if you're committed to Luka, which you are, and you're going to commit yourself to Reeves, can you. Like, it's a reasonable conversation. I just don't think it's a conversation for December. I think it's a conversation for June, July.
- [56:14]
A
Yeah, look, I'm, I'm fully willing to, like, I'm presenting it not in a definitive way of like, hey, this doesn't work. But there's, there's two conversations that the 25 numbers, which are limited, him coming off this injury, and then there's a, like a longer Runway of some of this stuff as well. I throw out the Knicks. It would just be funny if he's like, hey, that team's really good. They're this close. Like, I go. And then it like, Knicks fans are going 16 years later, like, we thought we were getting you 16 years ago. I have. I have two quick things here with this Thunder pace. And granted San Antonio's win against them this weekend. Terrific. This Thunder pace. Are you preparing yourself? Are you putting together the spreadsheets on. Because I don't know what you would do. I think it. It's tougher to compare them to the 16 warriors that nobody wants to like you just. It's like the patch. You're not allowed to give them credit when you have that kind of regular season and then you lose in the championship.
- [57:06]
B
That's right. I know it's an awkward discussion.
- [57:09]
A
Yeah. I. I would like to put together, like, greatest teams of all time list and then just put up a team that lost in the NBA Finals. No one would love doing that more than me. Okc, in the conversation against those warriors teams, because it was funny. Like, I was. I was running some numbers on the offensive rating, which we realized that rising tides raise all boats. We've been having this. People have been falling for this every single year. It's like, well, do you realize this is the greatest offense in history? I'm like, do you realize it's happened, like, five straight years? Whoever was the best offense? I think there was a Nets conversation. There was even a Mavs conversation one year. Be like, this is the greatest offense the league has ever seen. You're like, yeah, maybe calm down that. So OKC's offense, which was not the strength last year of this team. It's not the strength. I mean, it's good. But the defensive numbers so far this year are ridiculous. Like, I was looking at them again this morning. It's even more absurd than it was last year. Where do you think the 17 warriors would rank offensively in today's league? So their offensive numbers per 100 possessions, I'm going to say the 17 team is the best of the 16. 17 and 18. The first year with Durant. Where do you think that would rank in the league today? 1 14th.
- [58:28]
B
Oh, I thought you meant, like, where would they. If they played today? You mean. You mean the actual statistical ranking? Yeah, the actual statistical ranking point that you're making. Yes. Yeah.
- [58:36]
A
Yeah.
- [58:36]
B
Yes. You're saying that the best team we. Arguably the. One of the best teams we ever saw.
- [58:41]
A
I think the greatest team I've. The greatest team I've ever seen. And I would argue against the Bulls teams. I would argue against the 86 Celtics. You know, we could do whatever. The 60 Celtics. Yeah.
- [58:53]
B
Just as a quick sideline, I would entertain that do they win the championship if Durant doesn't come?
- [59:05]
A
So you're saying they're bringing everybody back from the 16 team?
- [59:08]
B
Yeah, because I just want to say that the 1617 Cavs were the best Cavs team LeBron ever had. And the 1213 heat was when, when Birdman Anderson was sort of activated and they had added Ray Allen and Shane Battier and. And you know, they sort of had a nine man rotation and that was the team that won the 27 in a row or whatever. That's the best team he was ever on. I say that the second best team LeBron was ever on was a 1617 Cavs. So I ask you, do the warriors win the 17 championship if Durant doesn't.
- [59:49]
A
Come after they had just lost to him and blowing the 31 lead? I'm a big guy in like motivation. I think the spurs won the title after because they were mad the entire year about the Ray Allen shot. So I think if they win in 13, they don't win the next year. And, and you can't just take Durant and then it's like, well, I still have Harrison Barnes and maybe I figure out the, the center situation here a little bit better. Because, you know, the story from that game 7 and 16 is that all of a sudden like no center, like feces out there missing. This is.
- [60:21]
B
Again, you're hitting me at what? I literally written books about this. So like, you know, when people talk about like, oh man, you know, the league gave. The league gave the Cavs the championship. I.
- [60:33]
A
No, I'm not.
- [60:34]
B
Let me check my notes here. Draymond Green. Are you aware, Ryan, that Draymond Green played in game six and game seven? I'm not sure you're aware of that. No. The Bogut injury was much more relevant to the turning of the series than the Draymond style suspension.
- [60:49]
A
Yeah, and the other thing too, and a half games. I hate the gifting of like, because it was Draymond's mistake, but it was also. It's so discrediting of what LeBron and Kyrie, what those two guys did that many games in a row, like all time stuff, all happening at the exact same time and it still comes down to a shot. So let me just give you the answer instead of repeating back the thing that you have a doctorate in. I think the warriors would end up winning just because they were close enough that they'd be motivated. You seem to think that they. It's back to back because of the improvement from 16 to 17.
- [61:20]
B
So I think it's probably. Or a maybe.
- [61:23]
A
Yeah. Okay.
- [61:24]
B
Okay. Would you. Can we. Can we generally agree on that?
- [61:27]
A
You know who you're talking to? Of course. I mean, I have a harder time being definitive about any of this stuff. Right yet.
- [61:32]
B
Right. So, of course, that's like one of the. Sam Presti has like five of the greatest quotes of the last decade, you.
- [61:40]
A
Know, and love to be part of one someday.
- [61:43]
B
When he. When he was talking about that letter of his that got published in the Boston Globe when he was 16 years old or 12 years old or whatever, and he wrote that they should.
- [61:55]
A
I thought he was 26.
- [61:58]
B
And he wanted them to draft Jason Kidd, basically, was the point. And he got asked about it when it became the light. And he goes, yeah, he goes, I had 100% certainty with a fraction of the information, and now I have all the information and I have a fraction of the certainty. And so I think that's what you're referring to is when you see some things, you get less absolute. So, yes, I would agree. I think, probably, maybe. But my point on this is that when people crack Durant for going to that team, and that act in and of itself is a whole nother conversation that's billions of words have been used on and will be used on. But my point is, is that that Cavs team was awesome. They went 12 and one in the Eastern Conference playoffs that year. And I know it's a commentary on what the east was then, but they went 12 and one in the Eastern Conference playoffs that year. Okay, Durant was the difference maker. Durant did not like the. However you want to say it. He was, you know, in the back of the bus or ring chasing or whatever. It's a complete. It's like ignoring the fact that Bogut was hurt, that their super important defensive center was hurt. It's willfully ignorant. And, you know, cracking Durant in 17, coming there in 1617, and just saying that he was just there to go along with it is I just think, because it disregards how good the Cavs were. The Cavs were a significantly better team in 1617 than they were in 1516.
- [63:40]
A
I could do that all day. All right, so I'll make this last one quick, but I want the seed planted. I want to hear you and Bontemps arguing about it at some point. Maybe it's a January episode. We stumbled on this one because you're talking about, like, how many rosters would you trade for Wemby? Then we realized it was more of, like, who wouldn't do it and then we tweaked it. Ceruti, I'll give him credit on this one. It started turning into like, who's the worst player? Which is, means it's really good player. But like, who's the worst player? Where you would still trade the entire Nets roster for. And then I started kicking around with guys in the league and I was just getting. It was hilarious because we were trying to figure out like, where is that line? Like, so I'll, I'll leave you with a sampling of it. Would you trade the entire Nets? It's not the draft pick rights. Forget about Contra. Well, I guess you could factor in like contracts, especially if you're talking about like Philadelphia, but would you trade the entire Nets roster for Con Caniple right now?
- [64:41]
B
So the thing about this is, you know, I, I, you know, the Nets fans are very protective of their five first round draft picks and are believing that these guys are going to develop into like real players.
- [64:53]
A
I love the Danny Wolf stuff so far.
- [64:54]
B
Well, he's, he's doing pretty good. There is, put it this way, there is no package, you know, the whole roster is not a real conversation. There's no package of players that the Nets would not trade for Con Knippel.
- [65:08]
A
So you're saying it wouldn't work on the trade machine.
- [65:11]
B
That's right. It wouldn't work on the trade machine. There would be a roster spot issue. Yes. And that's really the thing. You know, I always, I say this a lot. Like, not a lot, but I talk to people about this. If you went and got like the number one consultant in the business world, whether I don't know who that would be, like McKinsey's number one guy, Ernst and Young's, or woman, their number one person. And they knew nothing about the NBA and they said, okay, we need the best consultant, the business consultants in the world. I want the people who've turned things around. I want the best. Analyze the NBA. Give me what you would do for your team. They would tell them to do what the Wizards and the Nets are doing. They would say do that. Okay, what the process was. This is, it's not controversial if you look at it on, on paper, but you have to get the players. And so the difference between the spurs rebuild and the Wizards rebuild is where the lottery's gone.
- [66:21]
A
Yeah, that's it. That's it. Like when I watched Cooper the other night, when I, when I watched Cooper flag going up against the Jazz the other night in that awesome game. It was just a fun Game. I don't know that it was, it was beautifully played.
- [66:30]
B
How many defense did he make with his left hand? My God, he's got all night. 18 year old. He's got one of the best offhands I've ever seen. For, For a teenager.
- [66:41]
A
That is not hyperbole. I could not believe, just. And then it was almost like Utah's like, what the hell's going on here? Like, he wants to go to that way. Like so. But to your point, to your point, like, I was even thinking about it with Wemby the other night. I was like, you sit there and if, if you were interviewing for job, you're like, I want to emulate the spurs culture. Like, spurs culture. Spurs culture. Spurs culture. Is it like. Or is it David Robinson into Duncan, into women? Yeah, you know, is, is. Or is it just that.
- [67:12]
B
Well, you can do it both ways, but I know, yeah, right.
- [67:15]
A
You can have a culture that supports all these things, but go ahead.
- [67:19]
B
You can do it both ways. But I'm just saying, like, I, you know, the Nets would have been in a better spot if they had the fourth pick.
- [67:29]
A
Right. And Utah would feel much better if Cooper flag were running around.
- [67:33]
B
Yeah. I mean, the Jazz love Ace Bailey. They will talk about Ace Bailey to you for a long period. They are convinced that they've got a special guy. But Ace bailey didn't score 42 points with 10 baskets with his left hand as an 18 year old.
- [67:49]
A
He was fouled 15 times in a game. Do you know that?
- [67:52]
B
Do you know that he created like 10 of, I think 21 of the points he created like on his own, like just straight isolations. Like he just, you know. Yeah, he may not be a point guard, but he. Here's the other thing. How many 18 year olds have you seen? And there hasn't been 18 year olds in a while, I realized. But let's just say teenagers. How many teenagers have you seen that are physically able to compete with like 95% of the league?
- [68:17]
A
You don't like comparing him to. I'm not comparing him to LeBron, but like, that was the most remarkable thing.
- [68:22]
B
About LeBron is that immediately, Ryan, I see indicators all over the place and the comparisons and the similarities between Cooper's rookie year, how his rookie year is playing out, and how LeBron's rookie year play out. I can't unsee it. Like every day I'm like, oh, my God, that's exactly what happened to LeBron. This is what happened to LeBron. Like, it's, it's. I can't. It's, it's remarkable.
- [68:50]
A
Make sure you check out the hoop collective part of Omaha now over at espn, you'll see Windhorse throughout the season and on Countdown keeping them honest on the desk, which I always appreciate. And I can't, I can't wait to have you on again. Thanks, Brian.
- [69:07]
B
Thanks for having me. Have a good day. Golf season is in full swing and.
- [69:13]
A
Getting out there to work on your.
- [69:15]
B
Game is bound to make any day even better.
- [69:18]
A
And if you're looking to improve your.
- [69:19]
B
Drive, Chevy Equinox EV is the smartest.
- [69:23]
A
Choice you can make.
- [69:24]
B
Bold athletic styling, a commanding presence, award winning tech, and impressive range, all with an affordable msrp. Chevy Equinox EV will put a smile on your face no matter how your scorecard shakes out.
- [69:38]
A
You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [69:43]
B
What's up?
- [69:45]
C
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [69:48]
A
I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. LifeAdvice. The email address is life advice. Rrmail.com Ceruti and Kyle are here. Huge announcement that we teased earlier in this week on the show. But the Ryan Marcillo show along with part of my take and Spit and Chiclets are all going to be now on Netflix. So you can watch all of us right after you get done with any documentary if you haven't caught up on Ozarks Locked In. So what you see here in the video format you're going to now see on Netflix, there was talk about a studio for me and honestly everybody was kind of like if you're fine doing your thing, we like the backdrop. And I was like I'm definitely fine. Just going into my kitchen prep in the morning, then coming over here and doing it from the office. So it's not going to be any fancier. It's just awesome to be on an incredible streaming provider and have this kind of partnership and Dave just making it pretty simple and hit me up and like, hey, is this something you want to do? So we've been talking about it for a little bit. Not a lot of conversation. And look, this is where all this stuff is going and I'm just really, really excited to be part of it. So get out the I probably will hire on site makeup though because I do miss that from the ESPN radio days. Like going in.
- [71:18]
C
Yeah, 4K, the 1080p is could be harsh. You know, not on GPU. It's so close.
- [71:24]
A
Yeah, it's so close. Yeah.
- [71:26]
D
I'm going to have to answer more questions. I've been sort of operating in secret. Like, my family was like, what do you do again? Like, most of the people outside.
- [71:32]
A
Like, outside, I'm a Netflix bitch.
- [71:34]
C
Yeah.
- [71:35]
D
And now I think I'm gonna have to answer more questions. My grandma started poking around. She's like, I've been watching you on the YouTube and I gotta say, not anymore. I think I might have to clean.
- [71:43]
C
It up a little bit.
- [71:44]
D
I don't want to change the, you know, the tone of life advice, but.
- [71:47]
A
I think I'll tell you right now, whatever this stage setting is, can we stay with this one?
- [71:51]
D
You liking this? You're liking the peak? I was thinking about getting maybe a.
- [71:55]
C
Little background 80s den. Yeah.
- [71:57]
D
Yeah. A lot of wood panels. This is a sheet and some wires.
- [72:01]
C
The Viva sticker stuff I do.
- [72:03]
D
Oh, you pick that out.
- [72:04]
B
Yeah.
- [72:04]
C
I see. I get good eyes.
- [72:05]
D
This was the first day, and I don't know, there's a lot to be done, but I feel like I was brighter than usual.
- [72:10]
A
But we're also going to be the super bowl for the entire week. I thought I was done. I thought it was like New Orleans Lake. That's the last one. It's over for me. And now since we're doing a new show and basically I just want Kyle to be at one of the parties, so I felt like a part of the staff. That's gonna be great. Yeah. So fired up. This is awesome, man. It's awesome news. Trying to just keep growing the show. And again, a partnership here. That is off to a great start.
- [72:35]
C
What do you think is gonna be? I wonder just, like, if they'll suggest things, you know, after you finish watching our show, it's like, hey, also watch this. Is it gonna be. Is a loan on Netflix? I feel like that's probably one that would work. Well, trying to think of what else would.
- [72:47]
A
That might have been the meanest thing Saruti's ever said to me.
- [72:51]
D
Yeah, that thing stocked. He was ready to go with that one.
- [72:55]
C
I'm just trying to see. I don't know if it's on there.
- [72:58]
D
Arrested Development.
- [72:59]
C
Yeah. You know, gonna strike me as a stranger.
- [73:02]
A
If you like this.
- [73:03]
D
The Trashers documentary.
- [73:05]
A
That's likely just gonna go from PMT to, like, if you like this, you know, maybe you'll like this. I don't know, though. I don't know. Maybe there'll be some therapy show and then it'll be like, if you like this, and then it's like, boom, right into life advice. Would it be funny if Netflix edited the videos where Netflix just has life advice first, and then they put my monologues at the end.
- [73:28]
C
We don't need this.
- [73:29]
D
It's got incredible data collection. And.
- [73:31]
A
Yeah, based on what happened seven years ago. Got it. Dude. What? Did you sort of notice the other day that you're going to track and get back to Hasan? Okay. All right. So you know what I do want to do, though? Kind of a group project. I don't know what it is, but I'd like to get a show going where we all start a show at the same time. And maybe it's like recap Thursdays or whatever. Like, we don't need an entire new arm of the show here, but I would like to all of us be on the same page. We could go book.
- [74:10]
C
I would do a book.
- [74:11]
D
I just got my Pleasant Valley library card.
- [74:13]
A
I'm ready to go.
- [74:14]
C
Hell, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we talked about the Rosilla Book Club, like, for real. And maybe, you know, obviously listeners could read along. We'll do three chapters at a time. That could be cool.
- [74:23]
A
Yeah. I've just finished a few books here that I wanted to have the authors. I don't know what's going on. We got Gunfighters in the Holster. That one's done. Gunfighters was incredible. Awesome gift for your dad if he likes the old shoot em ups. 1929 Sorkin. I don't know why we haven't gotten him on yet. Just finished that one. And now I'm on the Edmund Fitzgerald, so I think we'll be able to get John Bacon on.
- [74:47]
C
Did. Did the Edmund Fitzgerald content take over your Instagram feeds too?
- [74:52]
A
What's that?
- [74:53]
C
That's like the Edmund Fitzgerald content. I got that for like a month straight. I know. It was a Gale's year anniversary. Well, yeah, but just like the ship and the song, and I was like, what's going on here? And then I kind of just. Yeah, I was like. I was really into it.
- [75:04]
D
The amount that I find that song in Frolic, I might have to read the book just to get a better understanding. I mean, it was like one of my signatures.
- [75:11]
C
Yeah.
- [75:12]
A
I'll tell you, as a salty US Ocean, guys. We look down on the lake. Guys. But you get through 20 pages of this great lake stuff. Great lake stuff. And you just start going.
- [75:22]
C
I was going to say, some would say that lake is more dangerous than oceans. That lake.
- [75:27]
A
Well, that area is wild. Really? Well, the. The lake Guys would tell you, okay, this is. This is real. This is sec. Big 10 all over. Yeah, here we go. I don't. I don't know. I don't want to be so impressionable that all of a sudden I read half of a book on the lakes and it's like, okay, the lakes, but the. The ships are not designed to take on what would be ocean. Like, for the most part, at least with this. I mean, the ship sank 50 years ago. But when you get into this, he does such a great job of talking about how they were designed and maximizing just basically cargo shipping.
- [76:00]
D
So I don't think I'd want to do a book club on a book like that. Just the way or it sounds interesting to you, but it doesn't sound interesting to me. Can we do a fiction? Nah, we can't do that. Right? You guys don't have time for fiction.
- [76:11]
A
What about if we start reading about samurais? The Book of Five Rings. It's only like 100 plus pages.
- [76:17]
D
Okay, we're talking. Now we're talking.
- [76:19]
A
Yeah, Musashi.
- [76:21]
D
Now we're talking.
- [76:23]
A
Because I'm thinking about getting into a phase. I don't know what it is yet.
- [76:26]
D
Well, when Shogun comes back, we could watch Shogun. That was. We all like that, right?
- [76:31]
A
Yeah.
- [76:32]
D
I feel like we'd all have interesting facts.
- [76:34]
C
What are you watching right now? We're watching the Beast in Me.
- [76:37]
A
Yeah. I don't know what show. I don't know what show we could get on. I don't know if Landman works watching it right now.
- [76:42]
D
I vote Shogun. We all liked it when it came out.
- [76:44]
A
Ryan. Mystery bug.
- [76:46]
C
I do that. I haven't started it yet.
- [76:49]
D
Little slow smirking.
- [76:51]
A
Yeah, I was about to say like it. Well done. Incredible acting. They're taking their time. Taking their time to get into it. We'll see.
- [77:00]
C
What if we just sagged and we made Priscilla watch, like the samurai turn pretty?
- [77:05]
A
I don't know. I'm back on the samurai thing though. You guys anti the samurai phase?
- [77:09]
D
No. I gotta get my samurai gates going right now.
- [77:12]
C
Always.
- [77:15]
A
He identifies as annoying, Right, Katanas? Yeah. I don't know that I'd ever go full katana purchase. I think I'm too old for that. I think you have to be within a certain window. Like, Kyle's a year or two away from having a katana collection, right?
- [77:29]
D
Yeah. Once I get this sheet into a wall, maybe I'll.
- [77:31]
A
Maybe I'll do that.
- [77:33]
C
I told you guys about my buddy. He just started a dagger collection after watching Game of Thrones. Not in my area.
- [77:38]
D
But that's the thing when you realize you're an adult and you're just like.
- [77:41]
A
Oh, man, I could possibly do have free will. Yeah. Yeah. That is really the best. Because they're. He's like, hey, I'm a grown up now. But he's like, are you. Because you just bought a bunch of daggers.
- [77:51]
D
I just think I might get a knife subscription. Just get a new one every. Every two months.
- [77:56]
A
I'd sign up for that. All right, what else do we got here?
- [77:59]
C
Another quick.
- [78:00]
A
We haven't done anything.
- [78:01]
C
Yeah, no, but I got another quick aside because we got to talk about this. You saw the Josh Hart thing, right?
- [78:06]
A
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [78:09]
C
I told you. It happens. It happens more than you think.
- [78:13]
A
So for those that didn't see it after the NBA cup win by your New York Knicks, the celebration based on an email that we just had about photos with a family member where the guy would basically give his brother that inspection. Is there a slang for them after 40?
- [78:29]
D
Is there, like, a word that's not gross for that? Probably not.
- [78:33]
A
Yeah. So Josh Hart did it to Brunson, and then it was on camera. And then Brunson turns around like, whoa, dude, what are you doing? And then Hart has been tweeting about it. He has got a couple tweets caught in 4k.
- [78:48]
D
Claiming.
- [78:49]
A
And he wasn't even healthy last night. He pulled that off.
- [78:51]
B
Yeah.
- [78:53]
D
I don't know.
- [78:53]
C
I.
- [78:53]
D
But I think, to my point, I was right, that a swinging around and hitting him in the nuts would have been an overreaction in everyone's eyes. I mean, I know they're holding the trophy, but I just think. I think it's the first thing you think that it made me think was like, yeah, see, wasn't. Wasn't as big a deal as hitting somebody in the nuts, I think.
- [79:10]
C
But I think. I think there's a difference, though.
- [79:12]
D
You have the teammate bonds, the.
- [79:14]
C
Yeah. The locker room thing because, like, you know, these guys change together. They, you know, weird shit happens.
- [79:19]
B
Dude.
- [79:19]
C
It's just dudes being weird. Like, that happens sometimes. Not saying that. That's what I would do. But it's a totally different thing to do it in a family photo.
- [79:27]
D
I'm not sure it is.
- [79:28]
C
I think it is. I think it.
- [79:29]
D
Blood sticker than water, dude.
- [79:30]
A
I don't know.
- [79:32]
C
I don't know. And it happens in sports a lot. Like I said, I guess I told you it happens a lot in soccer, but this was the NBA, so I.
- [79:37]
D
You know, that's a sign of dudes.
- [79:40]
A
Having a good time. Yeah, but there's a reward.
- [79:47]
C
What age is that? Yeah.
- [79:48]
A
Phrasing. We still doing phrasing? All right. This is almost a Friday. Feedback. You know, we'll save it because we did a lot. We did a lot of extra stuff here. Yeah. Okay. This one. This one's a real humdinger. What? Movie. All right. Five, nine, 1 6. Not many gym stats. Do a lot of peloton. Play a lot of golf. Try to keep the dad bod from getting out of hand. I live in Ryan's favorite city of Toronto. Twos. Twos. Broski would never tell people I am from here for obvious reasons. I'm from Calgary. College roommate calling me on FaceTime in the middle of a nationally broadcast podcast. Thank you. They found a picture of me from college that everybody's very excited about.
- [80:43]
D
We've been sending some college photos. That's been fun. Although I got to say, Ryan's.
- [80:47]
A
Ryan looks totally tame.
- [80:48]
D
By far and away the coolest, most put together out of the ones we've been sending. But that wasn't a freshman photo you sent, right, Rye?
- [80:54]
A
No, I'm senior year in that one.
- [80:55]
C
Yeah, okay.
- [80:56]
A
Just.
- [80:56]
D
The world is clearly a freshman. I mean, Seruti might be on a visit. He looks so little.
- [81:02]
C
I was 17, dude.
- [81:03]
A
All right, so Rudy's like that. Actually, that was my first year on Mike and Mike. I was wearing Twilight, a T shirt.
- [81:11]
C
That'S not in rotation anymore. It's funny. I showed Matty some of the pictures since you saw what we said back to each other. And I sent the picture of myself, and Kyle's response was, now that looks like a guy who's going to chirp you. And she was like, kyle has never been more correct in his life.
- [81:27]
D
You had, like, the east coast thing going on.
- [81:29]
A
I know it's the Italian thing, but, like, you probably could have passed for Hispanic. Yeah, I'm just, you know, I don't know.
- [81:38]
D
Southern Greek. Yeah, yeah.
- [81:40]
C
Vaguely Mediterranean little.
- [81:41]
A
There's something going on in there. I was like, if that guy came in, it was like, oh, my God.
- [81:46]
C
Well, I was way more tan back then. I used to be like, actually, like. Yeah. Now I'm just, you know, who knows? Speaking of Mike and Mike, I became vitamin D deficient. Never have been the same. So now I'm pale.
- [81:55]
D
When you wear a sweater, that's a true story. Really offsets, that's.
- [81:58]
A
Which is nice.
- [81:58]
C
See, like that.
- [82:00]
A
Say that again.
- [82:02]
C
Yeah, no, that's true story. I. When I started working On Mike and Mike, I literally started having taken. I took like vitamin D supplements because I never saw the sump. Especially in the winter. Dude, you know I would be. Because I'd sleep all day. I like to watch games at night. It was a disaster. And I've never been the same, like.
- [82:17]
A
So your deal is up. We want to talk to you about your raise here at espn and you know, how do you think this last year went? Well, I'm dying. I'm actually dying. And I'm not even 30. Like. All right, we'll keep you through football.
- [82:35]
C
Okay.
- [82:38]
A
He was so pale. That's why we started, because of the Twilight movies. We were like, what's up with Twilight?
- [82:43]
C
Cowherd. Yeah, Cowherd started that and then Gottlieb took credit for it.
- [82:49]
A
What?
- [82:50]
C
That's what happened.
- [82:52]
A
But you were so pale. But you were also good looking.
- [82:56]
C
Thank you.
- [82:56]
A
Was still.
- [82:58]
D
So that is. That's where Twilight. It's a double entendre. There it was.
- [83:01]
A
It was. Yeah, he's pale as shit, but he might be a vampire because he's also good looking. And Twilight was huge. Like young adult fiction.
- [83:09]
C
Listen, if you want to. If you want to compare me to Robert Pattinson, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong.
- [83:14]
A
Yeah, right. Right. All right. So back to Toronto.
- [83:19]
D
Yeah. What happened?
- [83:23]
A
It's a Mazda email, but would never tell people I am from here. For obviously more slang.
- [83:29]
D
You can get it.
- [83:30]
A
I'm from Calgary. Shout out. Banff and Ryan's Banff trip. God, I love Bam. I think I want to go back. I want to go into off season. I have a holiday dilemma that I would appreciate the team's input on. There's an awesome pull ticket dive bar. All cash. Kyle, it was made for you. They should change the name of it to Kyle's. Anyway, we're spending some of the holidays this year with my wife's family in Quebec. December 29, January 4. My wife and I have a one year old. She has four siblings and two step siblings plus kids who I mostly get on with. No need to go into further detail. My real dilemma is that I'm a massive Denver Nuggets fan and have been since childhood. I am lucky to now live in an NBA city and as a Western Conference team. There's only a chance of them being here once a year. You guys putting it together this year? The game falls on New Year's Eve. The question is, do I leave the family, more specifically my wife and child, to fly back to Toronto on New Year's Eve for a one night game. Jokic is obviously in his prime and I feel like I have to take advantage of every opportunity that exists to witness this while it lasts. Thanks for reading, boys.
- [84:35]
D
I think we should start with Ryan because I think I know what you would do, especially when we're talking Jokic. I think Jokic, this breaks all your rules, right? You would be like, I don't know.
- [84:45]
A
Even. I wouldn't even. I wouldn't. This is. This is dumber than the guy trying to live with his buddies.
- [84:50]
D
Yeah. I thought he was going to say like can I like sneak off and watch it. I'm like I'm planning on doing that this weekend with the Johnny's but like should I fly back?
- [84:57]
A
Big Johnny's games.
- [84:59]
D
Big one.
- [85:02]
A
I don't even know how you would begin to address this. He's emailing this like he has a chance. What wife with a one year old end all of the family. I mean maybe, maybe she's out there and she's just like totally babysitters.
- [85:14]
C
Sounds like flying with a baby alone too. Like that's.
- [85:18]
A
He's not flying. He's. Wait. So he would be waiting in Toronto or does he go back to Quebec?
- [85:24]
C
I figured he said fly back alone with the kid, right?
- [85:28]
A
Yeah.
- [85:28]
D
Oh, he'd have to at least come.
- [85:29]
A
Back and help her travel back.
- [85:31]
C
Yes. Then that's expensive.
- [85:32]
D
But it sounds like it's that important. I mean he wrote this whole email.
- [85:35]
A
He says for the one night fly to Toronto for New Year's Eve for the one night game and that the stay is the way I interpreted his date. His range here was that he would then go back to Quebec.
- [85:46]
C
That's insane, dude.
- [85:47]
D
She's got no New Year's Eve kiss too.
- [85:49]
A
Well, you're. Come on.
- [85:51]
C
Is he not going to be good next year? Like I just like I feel like we think he's going to be fine next year. Just. Just wait a year. He's not going to. It'll probably be all right.
- [85:59]
A
Has he played in Detroit yet?
- [86:02]
C
Yeah.
- [86:02]
D
Oh, is that right across the bridge there?
- [86:04]
A
Well, if you're reading anything about the Edmund Fitzgerald, you realize a lot of these places a lot closer than you would think. Here's the thing too, Elites.
- [86:11]
C
Yes. If you're willing to fly back to Toronto and then back to Quebec. Just fly.
- [86:16]
A
Just do.
- [86:17]
C
Go see.
- [86:17]
D
Fly to another somewhere else.
- [86:19]
C
Yeah, go see him at the Garden, right?
- [86:21]
A
Yeah. Pick up some. Go to Chicago. I don't even know. I feel like swing has not happened.
- [86:27]
D
Does he not Want to come into the US Is that his deal? Is that the thing? Because either way, political talk.
- [86:34]
A
Right.
- [86:34]
D
I'm just wondering. Yeah, it sounds like it wasn't an option.
- [86:39]
A
Wouldn't have brought it up. I have no idea. Yeah, all right, fair point. Fair point. Yeah. I think that one's now.
- [86:47]
D
I think you should have a nice New Year's with your brain. Brand new family and. And you're going to be all around her. People like Ceruti sort of said this with the guy who was planning on like, you know, taking a break from his life for a year is just like everyone else. It's almost disrespectful. Every. All of her family, all of her siblings and whatever there and be like, wait, he just left you?
- [87:06]
C
Like, what the hell?
- [87:08]
A
Yeah.
- [87:08]
D
New Year's Eve is one of those. You want to have your partner with you.
- [87:11]
C
I think.
- [87:13]
A
Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of great thing about having a wife or a girlfriend is that there's an age where you don't want any hang ups and then there's the. A lot of you dudes out there get it. That anxiety of, who am I gonna kiss tonight?
- [87:31]
D
Right.
- [87:32]
A
Yeah. When you just don't. When it's 11:50, did you guys have that anxiety?
- [87:35]
D
You think it's not real and then the clock starts ticking and you're like, damn, really?
- [87:38]
C
You actually had that anxiety?
- [87:39]
A
And then 12:01, you've been @ a party and you were like checking your phones for Sacramento Kings over and you're like, I'm not going to kiss anyone ever again. No one likes.
- [87:48]
D
Me. Yeah, dude, I'm from college. Come.
- [87:51]
C
On. You have been at a bar and been like, the dudes are going to look at me and it's going to be midnight. I'm not going to have anyone to.
- [87:57]
A
Kiss. Yes.
- [87:58]
C
Steve. It's never once.
- [88:00]
D
Happened. Also, I got guys that might like just pull it, pull it off. Like he might have five minutes left and it's like, all right, I'll pull it off. And then I'm going to be the one who didn't. I don't think.
- [88:07]
A
So. Then when you're in a bunk beds later that night, be like, I can't believe you didn't kiss.
- [88:12]
C
Anyone.
- [88:15]
A
Damn.
- [88:17]
C
Yeah. Guess I'm a.
- [88:18]
A
Loser. I don't know. I guess Latino.
- [88:21]
B
Steve, To be.
- [88:26]
C
Clear, it's not like I was just making out every New Year's Eve and had like tons of.
- [88:30]
A
Options. Kind of sounds like it. Or you didn't even care. I just didn't.
- [88:36]
C
Care. Yeah, that's pretty much what it was.
- [88:37]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Will Latino Steve stick went from.
- [88:43]
C
Euro Steve to Latino Steve. That's. All.
- [88:44]
A
Right. Well, look, I don't.
- [88:46]
C
Know. I would post your picture, but the T shirt, I don't know that I want to have that T shirt be out.
- [88:50]
A
There. So it's a tough. It's a tough T shirt. It does remind me it was a bit along the lines of, like the Female Body Inspector T.
- [88:57]
D
Shirt. Yeah, that's.
- [88:58]
A
Exactly. I went from thinking it was the dumbest T shirt to now when I see a guy wearing it, I think it's the funniest thing in the world. Again, like, it was clever. The fun first time you ever saw it, you know? And then it's like the people that are Daytona, like, seeing it for the first time holding, oh, my God, can you believe. See how the letters work? Can you be. Oh, we have to get that for Rick. We have to get that for Rick. He loves the ladies and, like.
- [89:22]
C
The I heart and wide shirt. People like just rocking that in New York. It's like, all right, yeah, listen, live your.
- [89:27]
A
Truth. Love it also. Yeah, Same category. Yeah. Now when I see it, I just think it's. I'm like, this is so old now that it's funny again. All.
- [89:39]
D
Right. I'm not going back to college to be your friend. I'm going so I can get Uber One for students. It saves you on Uber and UberEats. I'm there for zero dollar delivery fee on cheeseburgers, up to 10% off.
- [89:54]
A
Smoothies and 6% Uber credits back on.
- [89:56]
D
Rides. Just to be clear, I'm there for savings, not whatever you think college is.
- [90:01]
B
For. Get Uber one for students a membership to save on Uber. And Uber eats with deals this good. Everyone wants to be a student. Join for just $4.99 a month. Savings may vary. Eligibility and member terms.
- [90:12]
A
Apply. When loyalty collides with integrity. Sounds serious. First time, long time. 5, 11, 2, 30. 37 years old. Bench 3, 15. Married 10 years. Relevant names are already changed. Okay, thank you. I want to share a situation that's been sitting heavy with me. Not to justify anything, but to work through it honestly and hopefully learn something from it. A close friend of Taylor got invited on an annual buddy's golf trip for the first time. Kevin and I sponsored.
- [90:35]
D
Him.
- [90:36]
A
Congrats. Sponsored him. Historically, Taylor's been closer with Kevin, but the three of us live near each other. Our families are intertwined. Our wives are friends. We celebrate birthdays and kids events together. This isn't a casual friendship. It's a real life overlap. On the last night of the trip, Taylor was making out with a girl at the bar. It's not even New Year's Eve. This guy's killing it. It immediately made me uncomfortable. First because it's objectively wrong. He's married. But also because I know his wife's personally. His wife personally, and she's friends with my wife. It crossed a line that wasn't theoretical. I seriously debated pulling him aside. What I wanted to say something was like, well, there's. It's all blank there, man. We'll never know. He wanted to say something to him. Essentially. I went back and forth and ultimately said nothing. About a month later, a buddy asked me why I hadn't hung out with Taylor a while. I said, I don't know. He was a lot to handle on the boys trip. From across the room, I thought she was outside. My wife says, what does that mean? Caught with my pants around my ankles. I told her what happened. She was furious, not just at the situation, but that I hadn't told her. I explained that I genuinely didn't know how to handle it and felt stuck. That part eventually settled, but the fallout didn't fully go away. She doesn't want me hanging out with Taylor anymore, which I understand. But now, anytime any of my other friends want to get together and Taylor's involved, I'm either forced to say no or lie to my wife. Neither seems right. Neither option feels right. More intense. Here's the hardest part. Taylor has always been good to me. He's been generous, kind and solid friend. Cutting someone off entirely for what I see as a serious but singular mistake feels heavy. At the same time, my marriage obviously comes first. No question. We agree. It's been several months since the trip and it's water under the bridge for everyone. But these situations keep coming up. Ultimately, if I had to cut Taylor out, I would. But Kevin and I are long term friends and I really don't want him thinking I'm a snitch. I'm aware the situation is very botched for the most part, but my advice would be. But any advice would be great. So it sounds like you told your wife. But she never told his wife, obviously, which is.
- [92:34]
D
Great. Which I guess is the good one. Silver lining here. I don't know.
- [92:38]
A
Man. That anxiety bomb is going to hang around your head like a fucking necktie though.
- [92:42]
D
Yeah. God, it sounds like this boys trip needs to have like an informational video about what not to do. This is like one of those things you have to sit through when you first start working, working at Burger King. And it's like, well, now do you think you should do this or that? And one of the options is totally not the.
- [92:57]
A
One. And.
- [92:57]
D
You'Re. This is what he did. Crazy. So what you do to fix.
- [93:02]
A
This? I don't know. I don't want to go first. What do you guys.
- [93:05]
C
Think? Oh, I think. I mean, I one pretty muddy. You should guess. Okay, you screwed up. But you're. You should get some credit from your wife for being honest about the situation. That's a good feather in your cap. So it's like, that's a win for you. I think so. I think you have to parlay that into being like, listen, if I just like you, you have to explain to her, like, how I would have lied.
- [93:24]
D
Situation.
- [93:25]
A
Yeah. I mean, like, it all goes without what happens. Be like, oh, too many brown water. Like, you're going to be.
- [93:31]
C
Quicker. Yeah, I know it feels like it's so easy to like, just potty.
- [93:34]
D
Mouth, big potty mouth on this.
- [93:36]
A
Weekend.
- [93:36]
C
Yeah. Yeah. Terrible golfer. You know, yada yada, doesn't trip the car girl. All.
- [93:41]
D
That. Something, anything, anything, dude.
- [93:43]
C
But. But I think. I think you have to use your. Your goodwill with your wife to be like, listen, this is a terrible spot for. For me. I. If not hanging out with this guy, the guys are asking questions like, it's. It just makes the whole situation worse for me. And I think you have to just be honest with her about that because, like, yeah, like, it's. It's going to be impossible for you to just not hang out with them and have them not ask what's going.
- [94:03]
D
On. That's the best.
- [94:04]
B
One.
- [94:04]
A
Plea.
- [94:05]
D
Plea. With your wife, I think, and like, make her see how this is.
- [94:08]
C
Really. Because she's the only one that can know what you. What you did like that you told this story. Otherwise you're probably not getting the invite on the next golf trip.
- [94:14]
A
Yeah. Here's the thing. If Taylor finds out about this, problem solved. You never get to hang out with.
- [94:19]
D
Them. Yeah. Go join a bowling league or something because your ass is grass.
- [94:22]
A
Pal. 37. You got. You got a couple buddies trips like this stuff's real. Like, it's not your wife, but it's pretty close to being as valuable as a marriage. Yeah. Start getting older and being like, I'd love to do something.
- [94:35]
C
Someday. Making new friends is hard, too. As we. As this podcast is shown for.
- [94:42]
A
Dudes. Yeah.
- [94:42]
D
Dude. Over and over.
- [94:43]
A
Again. I think the fact that your wife, once you explained it to her and to Suruhi's point, which is a great point, feather in the cap came clean on this whole thing. And it's like, well, look, if I were sketchy, I wouldn't told you the truth about this thing. His behavior is not my behavior. You've been married to me for 10 years, you know, idea. I mean, look, you gave in immediately. So you're an open book, she realizes that. But this whole like punishment, you know, it's just this stuff kind of drives me crazy. Like clearly this guy up and whatever's going on in his marriage or whatever his, his boundaries of like what is right and what is wrong. Because like depending on kind of what group you're hanging out with, like sometimes you'll be like, whoa, you'd be.
- [95:22]
D
Surprised what happens on the off.
- [95:24]
A
Leash.
- [95:25]
D
Yeah. One time every couple years that guy gets.
- [95:27]
A
Out. There's other groups that are just like without like I, I'm gonna make sure that I'm going to bed early and I'm not going to be going out because I do have a feeling I don't even want to put myself in that kind of situation. I was like, dude, I asked, It's 8 o'. Clock. I asked if you want to get a Coors lighted, go to clubhouse, like fucking relax, you know. And I also think that there's just this line of like no one's ever 100% honest with anybody else. You know, like, what are you going to do? Like, hey, what's going on? Hey, I need to talk to you. I was at the Erewhon deli counter and the fucking eyepatch guy was working and I was aroused. I grabbed some beef brisket. I was aroused. And I just want to be straightforward with you on that one, you know, like you didn't do anything. You then told the truth in an impossible situation. These should be things in your favor of like, I'm going to golf with him. I'm not going to have an orgy with him. Problem.
- [96:22]
D
Solved. That's the only.
- [96:23]
A
Play. You're.
- [96:23]
D
Right. Good job.
- [96:24]
A
Guys. That'll do it for the show today. I wanted to end with a poem. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. Really. And one next do. Yeah. Thanks to Trudy. Thanks to Kyle. The Ryan Rossilla show. Please subscribe to the show, leave a little review, let us know how we can get better. We'll do a Friday feedback at some point. Probably not going to put a date on it. And again, thanks to Netflix and that deal. I think we're still able to do some shorts on the YouTube stuff, so we'll keep doing that for the NBA thing. But look, 99% of the content's all going to be on Netflix, and we couldn't be happier about.
- [96:58]
D
Them. Look out, mom and.
- [96:58]
A
Dad. Yeah, look out, Kyle, people. If you like Kyle, Next thing you know, it's Glenn Powell. It might not even be content related. Just be like, you like this guy? Boom. Here's your next dude. That'll do for the show today. Talk to you.
- [97:12]
B
Tomorrow.