← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
Mega NBA Draft Preview w/ Sam Vecenie & Kevin O'Connor! Sorsby's NFL Value w/ Todd McShay. Plus World Cup/USMNT Talk w/ Taylor Twellman.
02:42:30
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey Priscilla Listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.
- [00:08]
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- [01:14]
Ryan Rosillo
The Ryan Rosillo show presented by DraftKings. We are packed a lot of different topics today. NBA Draft We've got you over an hour. Sam Bassini and Kevin o'.
- [01:22]
Sam Bassini
Connor.
- [01:23]
Ryan Rosillo
We're going to go through all the lottery Stu other first rounders trade scenarios, rumors, full scouting reports. We've got it for you there. Taylor Twelman on the World Cup, US chances, international discussions and Todd McShay and the Brandon Sorsby Supplemental Draft Storyline Life Advice so like we said, loaded up pod for you. This summer, the cup is taking over the US and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. The DraftKings sports app is now available in all 50 states, including all markets, bringing the game straight to your fingertips wherever you are, from Florida to Texas to California, and you're in on the excitement at the speed of sports. Follow every group stage upset, every knockout round thriller, every stoppage time moment that flips the whole tournament. Sweat out all the matches you love in real time with a seamless experience built for the world's biggest stage. And no matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. New DraftKings customers sign up with the code RYAN. Spend five bucks to get 200 in rewards within 21 days. That's code RYAN. R Y E N in partnership with DraftKings the crown is yours. Bet with DK Sportsbook gambling problem call 1-800- Gambler 1-800- Myreset New York call 877-8-HOPE and WHO or text hope and why connecticut. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf
- [02:38]
Todd McShay
of Boothill Casino in Kansas.
- [02:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Vet Text Pass through May apply in Illinois 21 and over void in Ontario. Event contract trading with DraftKings predictions involves risk of loss Sportsbook bonus bets expire in seven days. $50 in predictions dollars issued weekly for three weeks expire in one year. Redeem one non withdrawable re predictions offer void in New York ends June 28. Terms at DKNG Co audio the NBA draft is less than a week away. The first round that is and very excited time of year for all of us that dig in the guys that do it year round and are some of the best to do it. Sam Vicini of the Athletic, who's been on the pod a bunch, and Kevin o', Connor, my old colleague at the Ringer, now with Yahoo. Sports, who has a really fun interactive mock draft that's up. It's like, hey, Keaton, Waglers never dunked. Hasn't happened since Trey Mann. All right, so I'm kind of ready for, I don't know, I feel like you hear a bunch of enough stuff, then you start going like, I could be ready for any kind of surprises. We'll go through kind of like some of the mock stuff that you both have, but let's just start with what feels like a defined top four Koc. We'll start with you. Like, take us through your 1 through 4 rankings and then, Sam, I'll kind of pivot it back to you.
- [03:43]
Kevin O'Connor
All right. I moved Boozer to one. I I took a while to get there. I started with Boozer at three, had debona one, Peterson two. And eventually over the course the season, Boozer moved to two. That Boozer moved to one. And I think the reason why is simply the fact that I think he is just by far the safest of the three. I think at minimum, we're talking about a guy who's better, you know, more intelligent, higher iq. Julius Randall, a bruising forward who can shoot, who's a solid defender, who can pass. I just think with him, the ceiling is a bit underrated as well. When you talk about D Bonsa, it's, you know, six, nine, shock creator Peterson, six foot six, versatile passer and creator. Off ball on ball with Boozer. The fact is that sometimes you watch this guy play and you think, I had an okay game. 25 and 12, he was fine. 22 and nine. And with Boozer, six, eight, can, can handle the ball, run pick and rolls, can set screens. You can run it through him at the elbows and at the wing. He can operate out of the Short roll. He can, he can bruise, he can post up people, he can take it coast to coast. To me, he just checks so many boxes across the board that he's safe with a high ceiling. And so I put him ahead of debons at 2 and then D. Peterson at 3, and then Wilson at 4. I kind of in a separate group behind those top three.
- [05:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, Sam.
- [05:04]
Sam Bassini
Yeah. So just flipped AJ And Cam is the only thing. I also have Wilson in kind of a group by himself. I will say just from the top here, I have it like razor thin. I did my typical thing where I rank all of the players that I've done over the course or all of the players that I've scouted over the course of the last 11 years that I've been doing this. I had AJ at 6, I had Cam at 7, I had Peterson at 8. And that's over 11 years. That's not just over this draft cycle or the last five draft cycles. Right. I think that the margin between these three is so close and I think that who you take is all a matter of how you gauge different variables and what your scheme is and what you're trying to do organizationally. Right. The reason I went with AJ at number one at the end of the day on my board is that I think that he creates easier shots than anybody else does. He is somebody who gets to the rim at an elite level in half court settings and he draws vows at an elite level and half court settings. I think he's going to average 10 free throws a game at some point in the NBA. I think he's genuinely in elite level, downhill creator on top of having at least some sort of counter from the mid range and a burgeoning three point game. The reason I came into the season with AJ at 3, Cam at 2, Darren Peterson at 1, I had AJ at 3 because I didn't love the way that he processed the game a lot of the time. I didn't love the way that he kind of made decisions as a shooter versus a passer. I thought that he showed drastic improvement this season, understanding where his teammates are, how to draw help defenders in order to create open passing angles for his teammates. We saw that once Richie Saunders went down, he averaged nearly five assists per game. I thought that he showed real rapid growth in terms of being able to make decisions that are positive for, for the overall team offensive structure as opposed to just for himself.
- [07:08]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, so if you both have Wilson four, let's talk about say five through eight. Sam.
- [07:14]
Sam Bassini
I ended up with Acuff at five. I ended up with Wagler at six, Flemings at seven, Buries at eight, and then Yaxel and Mikel at nine and ten.
- [07:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay.
- [07:29]
Sam Bassini
I went with a cuff at five because I think he's the most scheme agnostic player of these guys and I think that I'd probably have it slightly differently if I was drafting for a specific scheme in mind. Right. If I was a super ball screen heavy team, I might have keaton Wagler at 5. Right. And I would probably have Mikel Brown a little bit higher than what I do. Making these big boards is often kind of a fool's errand to me because you don't do it within the context of a certain team where you don't already have certain things in place from a long term player perspective that you're trying to fit, or from a just general overall organizational philosophy perspective. That's kind of why I went on my agnostic board. Darius A. Covet 5 I think that that dude is just an absolute savage. I think he's a killer. I think that he has the kind of like charismatic leadership tendencies to be able to be a dynamic on ball player. On top of the fact that in SEC play in one of the two best leagues in the country this year he averaged like 25 and 7 assists per game with a 3 to 1 assist to turnover ratio while shooting like 47, 44, 81 or whatever it was, it was absurd. So I went a cuff at five.
- [08:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, koc.
- [08:48]
Kevin O'Connor
I also have Acuff at five in my final big board update coming out and to add on to everything Sam said about Acuff just being an absolute killer and an unbelievable three level scorer. I think with him so much, so much of the time the conversation is about oh, what he does with the ball on his hands. But the fact is is he did play with another first round pick and Malik Thomas. And we did get to see Acuff operate off ball too. He hit nearly 50% of his catch and shoot threes coming off of screens and movement actions. He's shown a real willingness to be a high level passer, not just a guy who score first, score second, pass third. He's a very good creator last year for Arkansas and so I think with him he is such a dynamic offensive player that I would bet on him to have the highest potential of this group with Mikel Brown and Keaton Wagler and Brayden Burries. And so after Acuff for me at number five, I do have Michael Brown. Last year he dealt with A back injury that had him in and out of the lineup. Very hard to get a good feel for what he truly is at the college level. But he did have a 40 plus point banger game. He's a very talented passer, very creative. I think defensively he has higher. A higher ceiling than Acuff and even some of the other guys in this range as well. He's a defensive playmaker. Even though he's only 6 foot 4. He's got a 68 wingspan, so I really like him. And then after that, going to have Keaton Wagler, who it seems like a lot of people have fifth. And I like Wagler a lot. And as Sam rightfully said, I think with these guys, it's all a matter of, you know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's about what your philosophy is and how you. How you view the guard as you're in your system and how you want to build things moving forward. And then I have Braden Burry's out of Arizona at 8, and then after that, I'll have a dai mara at 9 and Nate ament at 10.
- [10:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. All right, so I have some time for you guys a little bit later on on Wagler, because I like to do some work on this as well. But if we go over the mock part of this, okay, it's Ben DeBont's kind of the consensus mock here for a while. And, you know, I've been watching. It depends. It really depends on which guy you're locked into over the course of days. Like, you run through the Big 12 tournament with AJ and you go, yeah, this guy's the number one pick. He's this big. If you don't double him, it's a nightmare. And then you go back and watch Peterson, and then I've watched the Prolific Prep Utah or the Prolific Utah Prep game. I've watched it twice. I watched it again this morning. And you're like, look, there's clearly a drop off on Peterson's movement on his cuts. I know Sam did a deep dive on this, that he wasn't as explosive. It's pretty crazy, too, because I was looking at some of the synergy numbers where Peterson for the season is in the 9th percentile on dunks, which is a horrible number. But then when you run through it, he hit 14 dunk attempts, he missed four. So then the number just looks way worse than it actually is. But, like watching even the tournament, the first game, the first game that's still available, right? So the most, whenever you Lose is how synergy logs it. Which, you guys know, I watched that St. John's game, and he has a catch where the defender is completely draped all over him. He is up and into the shot from three and it is through and it doesn't even touch rim. And you just go, there's no one else in the country that has a shot that looks like that and it's a good shot. I'm not saying other guys can't make ridiculous threes, but it's just a bit of a reminder, at least for me, that I'm not going to be shocked if Peterson's name is called first. Despite the momentum out of the combine of AJ Kind of leading every single mock. Sam, I'll. I'll tee you up first on that.
- [12:19]
Sam Bassini
No, I mean, Washington's the whole way been doing its due diligence on all three of these guys, particularly, I think AJ And Darren is what it feels like to me. Yeah. I mean, look, like all of the reporting that's come out the last couple of days about, oh, Darren Peterson's not going to Utah or whatever, none of that really matters to me. Like, I think that that's all kind of, you know, a decision on Darren Peterson's part. I'm sure it's a decision on the team slash, you know, what was called Wasserman's part on some. Hey, do we maybe not one Darren Peterson there next to Keonte George, who's also a client of ours. Or maybe it's a, you know what? Like, maybe we can, you know, negotiate a thing where if you get this extension done with Keonte George. Yeah. Darren will come in. He'll do whatever you want for him. Right. So I don't take any of that as meaningful of really anything, frankly. The fact of the matter is this team's been doing its due diligence the whole way on both of these guys in a significant way, I will say. Like, people took the. Oh, yeah, like he's been in there twice or they've seen him two or three times or whatever the report was, as, you know, being really interested in him. I almost took it as more like, oh, they needed to see him like two or three times. Like, why. Why did you need to see him a couple of times? Like, don't you. Do you have, like, a strong opinion of this? Like, the way it's been kind of phrased to me from sources is like, you know, they're really doing due diligence. They're really trying to understand everything that they need to know. About Darren Peterson before they make a really strong decision, be it either Darren or AJ at the end of the day, I think it's probably going to be AJ DeBonsa, if only because the thing that stands out most to me in my mind right now is that Michael Winger did a press conference or not a press conference. He did an interview with the local NBC station there where he said, you know, we're looking for somebody who is going to be a leader of our organization, right? We're going to want somebody who comes in and has those qualities. Darren Peterson is an absolute killer on the court. He's wildly competitive. He really gives a shit about basketball. Like, he is somebody where you don't have to worry about any of that. He is not like a leader type in that way. Like, that's just kind of not who he has been at this point. He's a little bit more introverted. And I say that as somebody myself. Like, I am more of an introverted human being. I'm not taking any shots at Darren Peterson. It just is who he is a little bit more. So I still think it's AJ But I do know that they've really done as much work into Peterson as you would do as if you were going to take him at number one.
- [15:10]
Kevin O'Connor
I think Sam, spot on there with that leadership comment by Winger. That stuck out to me for a long time now. I mean, look, the fact is with Peterson, he calls himself an antisocial loner. That's his own phrasing, describing himself. He's used those words. And so the fact is with Peterson, that is who he is. He's not really a vocal guy. He's a killer on the court, as Sam said. That's 100% true. We saw that in high school. We saw that in moments in college. But we also saw in college him decide 15 minutes before a game against undefeated Arizona, I'm not healthy enough to play. I have flu like symptoms. He. He found an excuse not to play rather than finding excuses to play. And you can, you know, blame that on the cramping. You can blame that on the. The other injury he had. You can blame that on anything you want. But the fact is, is that I think if you're the Wizards or the Jazz at two, if you do want a leader, if that's important to you, I think that's a very clear knock against Darren Peterson. So I also think the Boss is the favorite at number one. And with Peterson, I definitely think they're doing their due diligence, as Sam said. Undoubtedly they've seen him two or three times now. And why would you not, considering how incredibly talented Darren Peterson is. But my gut says it'll be debons at one. And then that would mean what's the big question at number two?
- [16:30]
Ryan Rosillo
What would be more surprising, you guys? Boozer going one or Caleb Wilson going to?
- [16:35]
Kevin O'Connor
It's a really good question. I think Boozer going one for me.
- [16:39]
Sam Bassini
I think Wilson going to for me would be a bigger surprise.
- [16:43]
Kevin O'Connor
Honestly, both would be really surprising.
- [16:47]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, like both equally surprising if I had to pick one. Yeah.
- [16:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, let's. Let's talk about Caleb a little bit. I would say one of my biggest flaws when I was younger is I fell in love with every single Caleb Wilson imaginable. I'd be like, yep, in. And then you'd watch him the pros and be like, man, he can't really dribble, can't really shoot. They didn't pick up his third year option. This isn't good. You were wrong. I think maybe Marquis Chris just haunts me, man. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. So I spent a lot more time on Caleb over the last week and we all understand the physical part of it. Okay. There are moments that he has physically against other players where you're just like, this is a joke. Like he makes this absurd. And one against Virginia in a very tight game and then when they're trying to ice it with free throws, they miss the free throw and he jumps over the inside guy and just grabs it. He didn't, he wasn't even close enough for it to be over the back. It was just that insanely impressive. But the Notre Dame game is when I started going, okay, his passing. Guys like this are usually not this good with different kinds of passes. And I'm not saying he's going to be diming up everybody. You know, I always think back to like Julian Wright in Kansas. I'm like, here we go. This is awesome. But I'm like listing all these huge like multi talented things and it's like, yeah, it never really quite worked out for a bunch of those guys. Dude, there's. There's obviously a tenacity. There's. We know that he can't shoot. It doesn't feel like an asset right now. The handling, it's like it's actually going to get better in the NBA. But I think he sees the game way more than usually the athletic player that has this profile. Usually these guys are just out there going, I'm Just like Morris Johnson. I kind of like him later on, but I don't know that he's seeing anything necessarily where Caleb specifically, that notary game, Notre Dame game kind of like got me going.
- [18:48]
Todd McShay
There's.
- [18:49]
Ryan Rosillo
There's a chance for a lot more here, which is what's exciting.
- [18:54]
Sam Bassini
Kevin, you go first on this one.
- [18:56]
Kevin O'Connor
I mean, I think to your point, with that Notre Dame game, if I remember correctly, Ryan, he had like, I think first half of the game, two of his first assists were out of the post where I. He whipped one of them cross court to like a bullseye corner three. And then he had a cutter in the lane. I mean, like it looked like real high level playmaking stuff. That's the game, right? I get that in my mind.
- [19:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, he had another one where it wasn't even like the read. He was double teamed past the three point line, which is probably stupid, but it's not even that he read the double. He jumps over both defenders and throws it across the court to another guy in the opposite corner. And I just think there's a lot of really gifted players that there's like a limitation on what they're willing to see because it's like I have the ball and I'm the best player and I'm a lottery pick. Like, I'm not supposed to give this thing up. And there's a willingness in him that, like I said, it gets me a little bit more excited.
- [19:49]
Kevin O'Connor
Well, I think to your point, Ryan, like, I think with him and my draft guy, the comps I have, and I don't love either of these comps, are Evan Mobley and Jonathan Isaac. And like, I'm talking like a healthy, best case version of Jonathan Isaac. Evan Mobley.
- [20:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Isaac was, look, when he was in Florida State, there was like a guy who actually handled the ball a little bit too, which is why you were like, wow, if this guy, I remember him coming out being like he, he's going five and then now I don't know that he's ever allowed to dribble, but go ahead for sure.
- [20:16]
Kevin O'Connor
And that, and that's the thing with Wilson where it's like there's more than just run and finish and make plays athletically on the defensive end of the floor. There's the creation upside where sometimes you see him grab a defensive rebound and bringing up the floor himself. You squint and you're like, is that like a slightly smaller Giannis? Is that what I'm seeing? And those are the moments where it's like, you understand why Some of these teams, 1, 2, and 3 doing their due diligence are like, well, wait a minute. Let's review and think about do we want to invest in Caleb Wilson here in this election? I don't think any of the top. Top three teams will, to be clear, but there's a chance 10 years from now, we look back, and Caleb Wilson's the best player in this draft class. It's just he has more flaws, severe flaws, compared to the top three. And that's why I think he's a tick below them with his iffy shooting. And, you know, maybe he's a handle or maybe he's not. He needs to get stronger, a bit aloof on defense as well. So there's some flaws there with him that I think knock him down a peg.
- [21:12]
Sam Bassini
Well, you guys, like, haven't even brought up the thing that I love most about Caleb Wilson. I think that dude is, like, an absolute dog. Like, that dude competes and wants it. Like, he. Absolutely. You talk to teams that have met with him. You talk to anybody that's been around him. Like, that dude wants it. Like, he wants to be a great basketball player. And you can see it, by the way, in the fact that he played all three of these other guys at some point this season. He played AJ in the preseason. They played Kansas very early in the year, and then obviously, they played Duke. He beat those guys every time. Like, he outperformed AJ DeBonsa in the preseason. He outperformed Darren Peterson in that game against Kansas City, outperformed Gamboozer, and in the game against Duke. So I think that he has, like, a real competitive mindset to him. It's just. Yeah, like, the skill set for me is just a little bit lower than the other ones. And that's what worries me a little bit. Like, you guys bring up all of the passing and everything that you brought up from the passing against Notre Dame, I think is 100% valid, and it's real. I love that he sees what he sees. It's when he starts to get on the move, though, that things get cloudy, when he's at a standstill. I love the way he sees the court. I also thought UNC did a really good job of creating, like, preordained reads for him where. Okay, we're getting a high load of a SAR here. Okay. We're trying to figure out exactly where we're going with the ball here. Caleb, you can initiate from the high post and you can make a read when you're at a standstill in the NBA, you have to play at speed, you have to play with on the move. If you're going to be like a primary initiator in some way, shape or form, or even like a secondary guy at times, too. And I do feel like Caleb's passing ability on the move is just a little bit below these other guys. At the end of the day right now, even AJ I think you see, okay, he's in a ball screen. He knows how to slow down, play at pace. Here he's going to make like this little wraparound pass with his right hand to the corner for an open three to canard Davis.
- [23:17]
Taylor Twelman
Right.
- [23:17]
Sam Bassini
Like, on top of the fact that Caleb, I think, is the least developed shooter of these guys, he's just a little bit less developed at the end of the day. And I think that his feel for the game is still growing on top of it. I will say that, like, some of his movement patterns give me pause on defense. I guess I would say I don't love how upright he plays. I don't love how he backpedals. I actually worry about whether or not everyone just assumes he's going to be a good defender at some point. I'm actually, like, not 100% sure of that because while he's very explosive vertically and is very explosive going downhill, I actually don't love the way that he moves and opens his hips while backpedaling. Right. Like, I think that there are some things physically he actually really has to work on in terms of his mechanics as well. And I'm sure that guys can figure out how to, you know, fix, you know, the Miles Turner. Like, he had to get stronger glutes in order to move. But we'll. We'll figure it out, right? And, you know, I think he's just a more flawed player. I think Kevin said it. At the end of the day, if
- [24:23]
Ryan Rosillo
I had to do it as a job, and you were in the room with everybody, you know, you're going to be a little reserved depending on what your status is. I'd be tempted to put Wagler fourth in this class. I think the Mikhail call. I'll never forget doing a baseball show years and years. This is a long time ago. This is like almost 20 years ago. And we had a GM on and they had this really fancy shortstop. And I think I was doing the show with Steve Phillips. So Steve Phillips knew all these guys, right, because he had been a gm and we were talking about this one shortstop on this team. And I'll never forget the way the GM described Him, he's like, yeah, he's got a little chrome on his game and it's such a great way. It doesn't mean you're a bad player. It doesn't mean you just make mistakes. But there's always like an element of like, if it's good, it's showmanship. And other times it's incredibly frustrating. And when I watch Mikhail, I'm just like, all right, I understand how talented he is. I understand what the shooting is. He's in like the 89th percentile on synergy and pick and roll, which is like kind of what you want. And also if you want to hear a number like Peterson's number, pick and roll, ball handler, they're like so average, which is sort of shocking. Whoa. Looks like Sam wanted to jump in there quickly.
- [25:37]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, I think that's really context dependent.
- [25:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay.
- [25:40]
Sam Bassini
Kansas, like never really put the ball in his hands and ball screens as much as you would like to see. On top of that, that team situation was a fucking catastrophe for him. Just straight up, like, yeah, like even
- [25:52]
Ryan Rosillo
as we were talking about Wilson so ever. Yeah, no, that's, that's fair. Like, even we were talking about Wilson, I'm going, man, what would this guy have done with like some really good guards with North Carolina too on top everything else. So when I saw that you had Mikel that high, there's so much to his game where I'm like, sometimes I'm like, is what is he doing? Like, what is he just going, hey, I want to take this shot because I'm going to prove that I'm going to be able to take it. And like again, they go in enough that you can't get that mad. I'd say there's a lot of guards now that drive and be like, do you know that if you have no chance at driving, like no chance at finishing that it's actually not a good basketball decision. So there's a lot of that. And then when I look at Wagler and what he did and granted, if you watch the Purdue game, you wonder why he doesn't go number one overall. But what they did to produce, switching defense and Waglers running all of it and then on top of that, making every shot and then you think, is he that quick? Is he that strong? He gets Kaufman ran turn around on a switch and then shoulders him like a 10 year vet and chucks Kaufman Wren, one of the strongest guys out there defensively, he puts his shoulder and chucks him. So I guess I'm wondering why is like, why Is everyone not like, hey, it's five guys and it starts after Wagler?
- [27:05]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, I'll start with this one because I had this conversation earlier today with Adam Finkelstein, and I love Finkelstein, and Adam does a lot of work in high school basketball as well. And what he brought up is, I think something that is really valid with Wagler. I can absolutely see a world in three years, even, maybe even in two years, where we look back and we're like, oh, man, we fucked that up. Wagler should have gone number one.
- [27:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, that's what I feel like every time I watch him. Seriously, go ahead.
- [27:40]
Sam Bassini
I think that world 100% exists. The problem is that we've never really seen him against high level competition outside of this Illinois scheme, which I think was literally the best in the country this year. Offensively, Brad Underwood, his son Tyler Underwood, who really developed the scheme, they gave him oceans of space to work in. Right? They gave him so much room to operate comparatively to the other guards in the country. Like, you watched Aaron Peterson, it's like, oh, no. Like, they're just definitely not guarding Floribadoo or Bryson Tiller or Melvin Council.
- [28:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Outside of Peterson's facing three guys when he comes down on the side.
- [28:16]
Sam Bassini
Sometimes Kingston Flemings, you know, it's Kristen knack and it's JoJo Tugler. Teams don't guard either of those guys outside of 10ft. They don't care. It's why Kingston Flemings never really got to the rim as much as you would expect with Wagler. Like, they have four spacing bigs on the team. They're like the only team in the country that has more than one of them. And, you know, it's just hard to know exactly how to separate what I think is like, genuinely, like, Tyler Underwood is going to be, if not like a college basketball coach, like I think could be an NBA coach, like down the road, Way, way down the road at some point. Versus what is Keaton from that equation and how, how good is he comparatively to the other players in this class that did not get the same advantages that he received in college basketball?
- [29:08]
Kevin O'Connor
Adding to what Sam said, despite those circumstances, he still only attempted the one dunk all year. He finished only 55% of his shots at the rim, made only 40% of his drives to the rim. And so that's despite having all that space to operate in, and as Sam perfectly described, was a beautiful, perfect system to optimize who he is. And I think with Keaton Walga, that context I look at and it's like, well, yeah, we got to see him flourish. Obviously he led his team to a Final Four. He had a sensational year and unexpected one and done. But I think there are those questions about how it's going to look for him in the NBA compared to Acuff, compared to Mikel Brown, compared to Kingston Flemings, some of these other guards. So I like him a lot and I certainly think There's a chance 10 years from now we're like, yeah, we screwed this up. He should have been one or two. There's definitely a chance that I still think even Chicago should be thinking about one of these guards instead of Caleb Olson. I don't love the love the Caleb Wilson fit next to Modest Bouzelis and Noah Senge and Josh Giddy. I know you're not drafting for fit, but I think you do have to think about structure and philosophy, and I'm not sure Wilson answers some of their questions there that they need as they build this system out moving forward around their core pieces.
- [30:26]
Ryan Rosillo
What if you can add an AI assistant to your work without leaving your workflow built into Microsoft Word, Excel and Outlook? Copilot works where you work, helping you do more in the apps you already use in Word. Copilot helps turn scatter notes into a first draft. I'm telling you, what's your first draft look like? All right, not great. You want it to look better. Copilot, give in to it. Let it happen. Let it hold you in the caress of great grammar and penmanship. The apps you know go further with Copilot. Learn more@m365copilot.com work is there a lottery pick for you, Sam, that like you may even have them in the lottery, but you may not even take them if you had that pick. So it's almost like you could just dump somebody out of your rankings. But a name that keeps coming up that you're like I can't believe this guy's going ahead of a handful of these other players.
- [31:19]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, like it would be really hard for me to take Nate Amethyst to be honest with you. Just like I totally get it. I understand that he's 6 foot 10 almost and is capable of handling the ball and in high school showcase that he could shoot. It's just that this kind of player type is not really for me right. He is has super high hips and I really worry about how that's going to translate to him actually being able to play on the ball and gain leverage in any way, shape or form in order to Access that ability to play on the ball. It's almost more that I think he should be like a Jaden McDaniels type who really focuses on being like a three and D player who's super long and covers a ton of ground. And I actually think he could do that pretty effectively. But I'm not convinced that that seems to be like who he wants to be as a player. It's not a shot at the kid. Like, everything I get told about the kid is that he's unbelievable human being and that he's like a really, really good person and like really cares about basketball. And I hope that he can transition into being something like that. I just don't buy into the on ball skill, really. And you kind of mentioned Mikel Brown earlier. Again, it's just like not a player type for me. I think at the end of the day where you kind of mentioned all of the wild decision making, like, I haven't seen, like the way I talk about it is in baseball terms just because, like I said, grew up playing baseball. And it's like, you know, sometimes when you have a man on third base, you just need to hit a ground ball to second base. Hit an opposite field ground ball and the guy will score. If there's one out or less, you take the productive out, right? Or, you know, you hit a fly ball to the outfield with a guy on third base with one outer less, you take the productive out. I don't think I saw Mikel Brown take a productive out or even just like try to hit a single all this year. It was, I'm going for a home run all the time. Every single time. You know, it was like watching Adam Dunn play baseball or play basketball. It felt like to me, where it was like three true outcomes.
- [33:21]
Kevin O'Connor
It was what a call.
- [33:21]
Sam Bassini
It was, it was highlight. It was like incredible, unbelievable highlight. It was turnover or, you know, it was him shooting, right? So it's, you know, he's already interesting player.
- [33:34]
Ryan Rosillo
He threw a lob so far out of bounds to his teammate from half court, and then he actually gave him the LeBron stare. Like, what are you doing? And the other guy looks back at him like, what? And if I had to watch another Mikel Brown pocket pass, it was like, where there was, there was no pocket. There was no pocket in there. But he's also what, 64 Koc? And I mean, he can reign from deep. So I understand, like, there's other teams that are just like, you're totally wrong. You know, he's. He's Pretty special. And honestly, this guard group is so stacked. Like he's kind of being forgotten. But Koc did not forget. He did not want to forget. Quick answer from you on a similar player. You can't use Nate.
- [34:19]
Kevin O'Connor
Well, Nate would be the answer, so I won't repeat him.
- [34:22]
Ryan Rosillo
I would say, what about Nate Rumors it's six because the Nets have so many guards.
- [34:26]
Kevin O'Connor
I mean, it wouldn't shock me. They took Jaeger Diomen last year. A bit of a surprise. So Nate, Nate at 6 wouldn't be a total shocker for me. I think the answer would be a Dai Mara. I mean, I like Mara. I liked him going into ucla and then he stunk it up for two years there before going to Michigan. And he was awesome. Fact is, he's a. He hasn't hit over 60% of his free throws in three years of college. He fancied himself a shooter. Entering college has never worked out for him. So I think with Mara as a 7 foot 3 guy, he's. He got better as a junior. You know, he's not the toughest. And I think with him, even though he could go maybe eight to Atlanta at the highest, I think that's probably his peak. I would rather just take a big later. In all likelihood, like if I'm Atlanta at 8, give me one of the guards there. I'd rather swing on Mikel Brown at 8 and then take a guard, take a big at 23 rather than take Mara at 28 and then a guard at 23. If that makes sense.
- [35:22]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [35:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Morris seems married to the eighth pick. And it's, there's, there's certain need things here. Right. Like I've talked about the Clippers going. If they stay at 5, they probably have to take Wagler because I don't know if you can put Acuff next to Garland again unless you guys are just like, look, Acuff is that exciting? And he played off the ball, which those off the ball numbers, as you pointed out, Sam, are good. Like, at least there's something there. I think Atlanta probably wouldn't go with Nate after going with Risa Shay being like, hey, this may not. Like, are we sure? I think Brooklyn deciding, like, I don't think that guard room is necessarily good enough even though they took a million of them for them to start getting cute and passing on whether it's a Wagler, Acuff or Kingston. And I like your Atlanta call there. Like Mara gets plugged in as this other big option for Congo. It's like, okay, so you have the eighth pick, which is absurd that you even ended up with it because of this trade. And so you're locking yourself already into like a backup big, like, sure. It's a totally different look. And, you know, you watch that tournament run, he's not somebody that you're going to think is going to hold up getting switched into. But there's something to being 73 and being as mobile as he is. You know, he's not. You know, look, I'm not saying he's super quick, but he's not a complete stiff out there. And of course, you can also. He can pass. You can run some offense through him and set some people up there, but it's. It's kind of like, well, yeah, but you. You're basically guaranteeing yourself that you just drafted somebody that's probably not going to start for you unless somebody else gets hurt. Do you have any other player to team? Stuff in the lottery where it's like, hey, this makes a ton of sense or doesn't make any sense.
- [37:02]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, I'll shout out a couple. I really love the idea of Mahrez Johnson with a number of teams, frankly, with Oklahoma City, with Charlotte, just a really tough, physical player, super professional, you know, brings it every day. You know, you talk to the Michigan staff, they're just like, man, this. This guy just was our barometer every single day in practice. He really elevated our level every single day. Yeah, I think that Mrez, you know, Oklahoma City, where they could play him with, chat very easily, I think, and have that kind of switchable defense with a ton of physicality that they really appreciate. And then Charlotte obviously just needs more physicality on the interior with Mustard Dubate and Ryan Calc Brenner. I think that, you know, Mirez makes a lot of sense for these teams in the lottery.
- [37:53]
Kevin O'Connor
Yeah, I love Mares Johnson. I had Dusty May on my podcast about a month ago, and he said to me, his staff had a saying that if it felt like the team was a bit off, they'd look at each other and say, well, we have res and they don't. And I think to Sam's point, I mean, he's. He was the barometer of this team and, like, he made them tick. And I love Mirage Johnson. I think Charlotte at 14, I would be shocked if he. If he slid past them at the 14 spot. I mean, one of the names we didn't really talk about much is Braden Buries. I mean, Ryan, you mentioned earlier, the Clippers at five. Like, maybe they just love Acuff and decide to have a Garland Acuff backcourt to build with those guys. But about a month ago I heard some rumblings about the Clippers really liking Braden Buries and I'm not that high on buries by any means. But what is it?
- [38:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Is it because it's not enough point guard stuff in there? Because there's some other stuff in there that's great for sure.
- [38:44]
Kevin O'Connor
I mean I think it's exactly that, just not enough point guard stuff. He's not like blowing by anybody as a creator but like he's a connective piece. And I think if you're building next to Garland with this team, if you're still trying to win with Kawhi Leonard in this core, Burry's with his connective ability, his on ball flashes, the ability off the catch as well, he's a versatile shooter, the toughness, he's a really hard nosed player. I think that is somebody that as a foundation for the current, current present day core but also for the future. I think Burry's is going to be a really good player for a really long time. So there's a level of safety with him while still retaining upside that I think makes him appealing for The Clippers at 5 or Dallas at 9 is a building block next to Cooper flag. So I like buries in a lot of spots even though I don't think he necessarily has quite the upside as some of these other guards
- [39:38]
Ryan Rosillo
do. I like Hannes Steinbeck too much. Yes is the answer.
- [39:43]
Sam Bassini
The answer I think is no. To be honest with you.
- [39:46]
Ryan Rosillo
I said Steinbeck. I just mispronounced his name Steinbach. I gotta tell you, I kind of love him.
- [39:54]
Sam Bassini
I also love him the more I watch him. I ended up with him in the top 12. I think that he is an awesome rebounder. He catches everything in his area. He is strong. He really knows how to play in short roles. Catches below his waist can really pass the ball. He makes good decisions. I think he has potential to shoot it down the road. The question for me is like what is the defensive role? Because if you look at what Washington's numbers were when they played him next to a center versus when they played him alone is the one big on the court. The rim protection numbers really dropped off a cliff a little bit and got much, much, much worse. Now Washington did some scheme things that made it a little bit more challenging for him to be around the rim consistently. But Steinbox is one of those guys that like I see there being a zero percent chance that he's not in the NBA for a decade. He is too big, his hands are too good. He rebounds too well. He is willing to play physically. He has touch that is too good around the rim. It's just whether or not he's going to be a top 10 center in the NBA. But I don't think you're wrong to love him. I am also a big fan. It's just that there's a safety there. Ryan. I feel safe when Steinbach is on my team.
- [41:09]
Kevin O'Connor
He's going to be a good role player at worst. I mean, that's the best thing you can say about if you're just trying to draft a good center. You're going to draft a good center in him. And I think long term he's going to be able to shoot it too. On top of what everything you said, Sam, I mean, he shot 34% from three last year and about two, two attempts per game, 76% from the line. From what I've heard, he's shot pretty well pre draft as well in his training. And I think with his touch near the rim, that's going to translate to mid-30s at some point in his career. And so if you have a guy who's near 7 foot, who's a talented interior player, good decision maker, good screener, does all the foundational things you want from a big and he can space for you as well, Give me that guy. So I think that, you know, 11 to 16 range is very reasonable for him, for sure.
- [41:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, next question. If Kareem Lopez and Alan Graves entered a decathlon was just against each other, who would you pick to win?
- [42:06]
Sam Bassini
You.
- [42:10]
Kevin O'Connor
Ryan's an athlete.
- [42:11]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, I know. That's why I said they're not.
- [42:14]
Ryan Rosillo
I gotta tell you, man, the Kareem Lopez, I get excited about those guys. I'm a huge New Zealand guy. Sam knows that. I mean, not many of your draft analysts out there. I went and watched Breakers Ball live courtside.
- [42:27]
Sam Bassini
I haven't even done that yet.
- [42:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I got excited to break. It was a couple months ago and I think I sent Sam a text. I was like, I thought something was wrong with my video player. I thought it was lagging.
- [42:40]
Kevin O'Connor
You have a 0.75 speed or something.
- [42:43]
Ryan Rosillo
And then I talked to a team. I said, you can use this in the room. I said, give me. I was like, my comp for him is if Jokic absolutely sucked. Oh, my God. But it's still a compliment. Wow. Right?
- [43:00]
Sam Bassini
Is it?
- [43:01]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I think it's still a compliment. I just said, if you were a much worse version than the guy who's had the best player in the world belt, which apparently, you know, is now disputed. But
- [43:13]
Todd McShay
he's.
- [43:14]
Ryan Rosillo
He's a really talented kid. He really is. But God, is he slow.
- [43:19]
Kevin O'Connor
He's kind of a jack of all trades.
- [43:21]
Ryan Rosillo
He kind of does everything.
- [43:22]
Kevin O'Connor
Yeah, he does a little of everything. But he doesn't have like a star skill. And that's probably why you have him ranked a lot lower than most people. Sam, right?
- [43:30]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, I do. I have him at 20. I'm not.
- [43:34]
Ryan Rosillo
He was top 10 before, right? Like, sorry to interrupt, but I mean, this was kind of like a mock top 10 guy before the season got started, correct?
- [43:42]
Sam Bassini
Yeah. But by the time the preseason had rolled around, I think I'd had him probably in like the middle 10 of the first round somewhere. Yeah, Karim's an interesting player. Very slow, not wildly twitchy. Man. If you see him in person, like his shoulders are like boulders. Like he is really going to be able to move people by the time he's like 23, 24, 25. And that's going to allow him to be effective as a downhill driver. But like he also doesn't really shoot. The defense drives me absolutely insane. Like Ryan, I think he was probably the worst defender in the NBL this year. And like, man, the NBL is like not an athletic league compared to other leagues worldwide. I love this league. I do. Like, genuinely, it's so fun to watch. It is such a cool time to be out here in Australia. Like, basketball culture is amazing here, but it's not a wildly athletic league. It's a lot more of a skill based league that plays up tempo. And he looks like not a great athlete in a league filled with athletes who are not quite as athletic as what you'll see in the NBA. Let's go with.
- [45:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, so then that takes it to Alan Graves, freshman. He was huge for this Santa Clara team. The wingspan, 7ft 672-26. The shooting splits 51, 41%. Makes his free throws, kind of does a bunch of everything. But it felt like a lot of stuff where I went, I don't know how much of this is going to work in the NBA. And he had a great season, but I was like, I don't know, man.
- [45:30]
Sam Bassini
Kevin, I actually don't even know where you are on Graves. Can you like, if you're. Because he knows Ryan knows that I'm not wildly high on him. So if you are in some way a little bit higher, can you please make the positive pitch for Alan Graves?
- [45:44]
Kevin O'Connor
Not too much higher. I have him like 20, 21. But I'll make the case anyway for Alan Graves, for the sake of the conversation here. 40% shooter, 40% shooter and a 6 foot 8 frame. And granted, he came off the bench 22 minutes per game. Santa Clara, lower level of competition, didn't even perform that great against quad one and quad two teams. His numbers were lower across the board. Fact is, is that he is somebody who shines in the analytical model. 67 steals, 33 blocks. Not just a guy who's just making mistakes off ball, occasionally getting his hands on balls to get steals or blocks. He's a guy who'll take a charge, he plays hard, rebounds out of his area. So if you have a guy who hustles, who plays hard, who makes smart defensive rotations, who can shoot, who grew up playing point guard, who can make the right pass, who facilitates, who plays selflessly, you have the makings of a potential, highly versatile 6, 8 guy who can plug in, plug and play into different roles for your team. Now. I think the production aspect is a real concern with him. That's my real thoughts here. I do think the production that he had against top teams, Quad one and two teams is a bit worrisome. I wish he stayed another year in college. He fouled out of six games last year, averaged over three fouls per game. So there's some real concerns. And I think he's a real project. But I think the case for him is the fact that he did produce as a freshman unexpectedly at a high level. And if you're getting him in the 20s, I do think he offers a level of upside that perhaps some of the other guys in that range don't.
- [47:21]
Ryan Rosillo
It was a little alarming watching the Santa Clara Conference games, then going to that Kentucky tournament game, and you were like, ooh, this isn't. This isn't the same thing. But who knows? He can kind of do everything. He's huge. He's got a huge frame. Okc probably takes him at 12 and he makes an all star team in 7 years. So good luck with that. Give me somebody you just want to talk about, Sam.
- [47:44]
Sam Bassini
Somebody I just want to talk about. Okay, let's go with. Let's go with. Can we talk about. Because I think Koa Pete is a fascinating player. I think he's just like one of those dudes who's really good at basketball even if he can't shoot. And I understand the shooting is like the most important skill set in today's NBA outside of being able to think, but like, I think the KOA can process what's happening around him quickly. I think he's super strong and physical. I think that he rebounds pretty well. He is a solid defender. It's one of those things where he does literally everything for me. But shoot from three. Like even, I mean look, the shooting mechanics right now. If you've seen any of the pre draft video circulating, I have some worries, guys. I got some real concerns on what's happening there with some of the adjustments that are being made. But like he could shoot from the mid range in both high school and in Arizona. I'm a little bit worried whether or not that's going to be true now based off mechanics. But like, I think that really you're talking about a player who can do kind of a little bit of everything except shoot from three. At 6 foot 7 with a 6 foot 11 wingspan 240 pounds and he moves fairly well and can jump reasonably well. I just wonder if we're all just like, oh man, but this guy can't shoot. And we're looking at it like, oh wait, no, this guy's like, he's just good at basketball. Like, why are we overthinking this?
- [49:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm just really glad you said that about the videos because when I saw the pre draft process shooting, I'm like, who's that? Not that he was lighting it up at Arizona, but the floaters, the stuff like downhill and that showed me at least somebody for a bigger guy. And I know he's kind of like tweeners are in now, but even he feels like this outdated tweener in a way. But I was shocked because I'm like, I, I like this guy way more than where he's projected. And then when I watched like I, like we just mentioned when you watch those shooting videos, like, why would anybody put these out? This is awful. So good luck to him. But yeah, if you're telling me like late 20s, he's still on the board. I, I tell you, I saw enough at Arizona to be like, you could do worse than this. So I hope it works out for him.
- [50:09]
Kevin O'Connor
Kev LeBaron Filon is the guy I want to talk about. And I think it's in part because of what we saw. Jalen Brunson winning finals mvp. People talk about small guards, small guards are back and all that. Brunson's like 210, 215, maybe, maybe even 220. And LeBaron Filon is going to enter the NBA at 176 pounds. And he entered the draft last year weighing in at 175. And so he got better as a shooter. He got way better as a shooter, 40% catch and shoot threes. He got even better as a shot creator. Everything got better offensively, everything got better. However, teams still wanted to see him add more weight. And everybody I talked to around the league has real concerns about whether his very light frame can support a lot more weight. And so I think with Phylon, he's a guy. And I'm curious what you guys think about this. I mean, do you want to invest in a guy sub 180 pounds as your lead point guard in today's NBA. Is he destined to be a career backup? And we're overthinking it. Is the skill level so significant with him that he can be one of the exceptions potentially in the long term? So I'm split on him ultimately. I think he's the guy that I'd pass on, and if I miss, I miss. Like, so be it. But. And he becomes a star. I'll live with it. But ultimately, I think with him, he's a very complex evaluation in park just because of his weight.
- [51:31]
Sam Bassini
Well, and I mean, this is a compliment to NATO. It's not a criticism. It's similar to the Illinois thing too, right, where people point to the fact that, you know, oh, he averaged 23 points a game and five assists and three rebounds a game and did so on all this efficiency and, you know, really improves the finisher at the rim. Well, he constantly has oceans of space to play in, in a way that Kingston Flemings, you know, Darren Peterson to an extent, a cuff. I think that Cal's offense improved pretty drastically this year from like an overall scheme and creativity perspective. But, like, I just worry, you know, you look at these Alabama guys in the past, right, that have kind of come through and have, you know, Brandon Miller obviously a hit, but, like, Brandon Miller is probably going to be a hit no matter what. He ended up being a top three pick in a really strong draft. You know, Herb Jones was a guy that they didn't recruit.
- [52:29]
Stella Blue Coffee Ad
Right?
- [52:29]
Sam Bassini
Like, that's not one of their guys. That's a, you know, Avery Johnson guy who they just happened to get. Keon Ellis is like the only other player from this era of Alabama basketball that, you know, has really panned out in the way that I think we all wanted him to pan out in that way. Right. And I think in part it's because we tend to look at the way that these guys look at Alabama, where they look awesome and their scheme is amazing and it's free flowing and it's up tempo and they put up great numbers and then they get to the NBA and it's like, well, you know, they're just players who didn't have the advantages that I had in college playing in these oceans of space. And I, I hope that that's not the case for Phylon. But I do wonder if in addition to the weight which Kevin brings up, that that could be an issue for Phylon as it compares to other players entering.
- [53:24]
Ryan Rosillo
I didn't like Fine Line last year. You know, there was always the comp because it's Auburn, it's Alabama. Like I like Pettiford so much better than him going back a year ago. And of course Pettiford had some just monster tournament moments. But Phylon really impressed me because I went into it being like, you know, you don't really like this guy. I think there's probably some concerns that like the offense is so much better but is the defense where it was last year with him? But you're right, I mean at that size, like you've got to be like really, really special to be going, all right, we're going to take this guy especially, you know, some of the, some of the projections of like, I don't know how you take him over buries I, you know, I don't know how you take him. Certainly not over any of these other guards. Let me throw one other guard in the mix for you. Starts Iowa. He floats. He dribbles in a way where he's setting up every move. Everything seems to have a purpose. It's constant attack. I think the shooting numbers would be better if he wasn't thrown grenade after grenade after grenade all regular season long where it's like, hey, will you shoot this now? I love the way this guy plays. I was talking to a team last night was like, oh, cool, so you want to fight the history of white point cards in the league. I went, well, it isn't great for my people. I understand at that position there have been long term struggles, but there is. He just feels like this high school. I don't know if it's the haircut, I don't know if it's his background, but he reminds me of like the kid on the other high school team that you're like, he's going to end up doing something great and he's going to win and there's like nothing else we can do about it. And again, I understand that he projects sort of as a backup. But there is something to the way he separates like the ball from his feet and the way he floats. There's, it's, it is very different. And he's always looking to push and I think he's in constant motion even when he doesn't have the basketball. So it just tells me that he's been raised the right way basketball wise. But I don't think there's a lot of teams that are going to be like sitting there going, we have solved our point guard problem if they grab him late in the first round.
- [55:35]
Kevin O'Connor
I had starts on my pod and one of the things that he said to me that he's trying to prove teams in these pre draft workouts is that he's not just a point guard because that's what he did in college. It was ball in his hands all the time. Played basically every single minute. The offense lived every minute. Yes, exactly.
- [55:53]
Sam Bassini
Every minute.
- [55:54]
Todd McShay
Literally.
- [55:54]
Kevin O'Connor
Like that's not, that's not a lie.
- [55:55]
Todd McShay
No.
- [55:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean he was, I think at drake he was 39 and a half minutes per game.
- [56:00]
Kevin O'Connor
Yeah.
- [56:00]
Sam Bassini
The funniest number, the funniest starts number is that in conference play last year he played 40.3 minutes per game. College basketball games are 40 minutes per game. And he played 40.3 minutes per Game
- [56:14]
Ryan Rosillo
because it's way better than my Drake number. Thank you for that.
- [56:17]
Todd McShay
That's nuts.
- [56:19]
Kevin O'Connor
So I mean like he, he always had the ball on his hands and he said to me that he's trying to show what he can do as an off ball guy because he knows in the NBA, he said that I'm not going to be playing the same role that I did in college. And so I had went back prior to this interview for the draft guy profile I did on him and I watched all of his catch and shoot stuff. And like just statistically on the surface.
- [56:39]
Ryan Rosillo
How long did that take? Four minutes?
- [56:41]
Kevin O'Connor
Yeah, four minutes. Not long. But he made 46% of his catch and shoot threes over four years in college. Right. And when you watch the video on them, he's got a lot of like, no dip threes, ability to hit off a movement and relocations. And so there's this skill that he has as a role player, as a shooter, off the catch, as a cutter, off ball, as a mover without the ball in his hands that he never was able to show in college. That makes me more bullish on him as an NBA prospect because you know, all the things he does offensively, everything you said Ryan is 100% true. But he also has this ability to be just one of the guys on the floor, and I think that makes him a pretty clear cut, good role player in the NBA. And I'm excited about him. I'm going to have him somewhere in my top 20. I don't know where he'll land exactly, but yeah, the guy's awesome. Good kid, works hard, married already, very mature.
- [57:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Sounds like a negative.
- [57:39]
Sam Bassini
I love this, you saying that. Yeah, like, I think the thing with Certs is, like, he's very sudden. Like, he plays with more suddenness than what you expect for him. Right. He plays it like sharper angles. Right. He's a real.
- [57:54]
Ryan Rosillo
He's athletic.
- [57:55]
Taylor Twelman
He's actually.
- [57:55]
Ryan Rosillo
It's okay. We can say that he's actually athletic.
- [57:58]
Sam Bassini
Yeah. No, like, realistically, like, he really plays at sharp angles is the thing. Like, you see him, like, really put force, like on his crossovers, like through his ankles, where, like, he's able to just like, really, like, cross over and put the, like, separate from his man in a way that I think is a little bit different than what, again, you expect on top of it. The thing that's really funny though is that Kevin brought up the idea and this is where, like, I'm trying to. I was trying to go through this idea psychologically in my head where I'm like, all right, am I just assuming that he can do this because he's white or can he actually do this moving without the ball thing? Because honestly, he just didn't do it at Iowa or at Drake. Right. Because he played so many minutes. When he played off of the ball, it was often an active rest possession. Right. Where he would actually just kind of hang out above the three point line or would hang out in the corner for 30 seconds because Ben McCollum wanted to keep him on the court and he wouldn't really move. Right. Like, we didn't see him ever really make a super high level cut or we didn't see him, you know, sprint off of a screening action off of the ball into like a fade away 3 or something like that where he really had to set his feet. So do I think he can do it? Yeah, probably. I think that that's real. But how much of that is me just cognitively being like, oh, yeah, he looks like a guy that could probably do that and it'll be fine. Right? Versus no, he actually has real basketball IQ and knows how to play the game. I can't imagine a world where he doesn't know how to do that. You know what I mean?
- [59:34]
Ryan Rosillo
When I was looking at the points per shot stuff and I was like, man, he's in the 98th percentile for catch and shoot on top everything else that he does. And then when I saw the splits, it was like, yeah, 1% of his shot attempts were catch and shoot as far as jump shots. Right. So it's even lower if you go the entire thing. So dribble jumper is 98%. So that's why I was kind of laughing like the off ball stuff. But he does, he does cut off the ball. He just doesn't take a ton of those shots. Should we do a minute or two more on Kingston Flemings? Because I feel like he got overlooked of some of the top guys. Because I think all of us love him too, you know?
- [60:12]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, just like plays with real. The thing with me with Kingston is he plays at real speed and he thinks at real speed. And whenever you can do those two things together and make good decisions while being able to play at the kind of pace that he's able to play at is I think frankly, probably the most athletic of all of these guards at the top of the draft. I think it really allows you to be highly successful in the NBA. Now. I think he can definitely shoot from the mid range. I do want to see a little bit more of a sample to understand where he's going to settle from. 3. The shot mechanics are obviously very funky. I do think that sometimes untraditional, let's go with shot mechanics can lead to people underestimating somebody's touch level or potential ceiling as a player. Because it just doesn't look right. It doesn't look the way it's supposed to look in Kingston shot. It doesn't look the way other players shot look looks. But like, this is a guy that's made 85% of his free throws pretty consistently throughout the course of his life. Right. So I think that. But in general he has really good touch and it'll just be ironing out the shot mechanics that he has. He is just a little bit more slight of frame comparatively to some of these other players. When I talk to teams about like, okay, so who do you think the guys are? They're going to put on weight, they're going to be able to fill out like Keen Wagler, people think he's going to fill out, get up to like £200 pretty easily. Mikel Brown, people think he's going to fill out like really easily. Like his frame. He's a guy that had a late growth Spurt in high school and you know, is continuing to fill out his frame. Kingston is one where when you talk to teams they're like, yeah, we're not really sure how that's going to fill out. Like it is just like a little bit more slight in terms of his shoulders and everything. So I'm certainly interested to see where Keaton goes on draft night. I'm a big fan. I have him ahead of Buries and Brown just because of that ability to think and play fast at the same time. But you know, we'll kind of see where. I wonder if his ceiling is a little bit lower than some of these other guys, if only just because of the lack of size and strength that he might end up not being able to have.
- [62:22]
Kevin O'Connor
I think that's a good way to put it. Sam, in terms of the upside and with Flemings, I like him. I mean I think he's a really good kid, really hard worker. I think he's going to maximize whatever it is that he'll become in the NBA. But ultimately he is only 6 3. He does have only a 64 wingspan. And there are those questions I've had those conversations very similar about what amount of weight he'll actually be able to put on in the NBA. So even though he plays hard on defense, what level can he actually reach as a defensive player? Even though he theoretically could become a better out room finisher than he was playing with multiple non shooters at Houston, what level can he actually become as a at rim finisher? On top of all the shooting questions that you rightfully outlined with his mechanics and I think with Flemings on top of that, he did have some struggles against top level of competition as well. 11 points on 4 of 10 in the Sweet 16. He was a lot worse against quad one and quad two teams as well. And we're working with small sample sizes in college, of course, but it's just another data point when you're stacking up all these guards next to each other and ultimately why I have Flemings behind some of the others. I just, I would rather take the swing on a Michael Brown with his upside. Despite some of the things you talked about earlier, Ryan, with like you know, or the, the comp you made, Sam, this was one of the most brilliant cross sport comps I've ever heard. It was amazing. But I'm done.
- [63:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Comp.
- [63:47]
Kevin O'Connor
Yeah, yeah, the Adam Dunn comp. I mean I just rather take that swing. But ultimately, like Kingston Plumbers, I think he'll be a solid rotation player and perhaps he Exceeds expectations, but I'm not. I wouldn't take him ahead of some of the other guards.
- [64:00]
Ryan Rosillo
That doesn't sound great. Okay. All right, here's how we're going to close this out. We do this with McShay and Breer. It's called the war room. I just made that up. We didn't really call it anything, but I'm going to tell you which team you represent and the deal that's on the table. And I, along with the audience, get to just observe. All right, everybody understand the rules? Okay, here we go. KOC represents the Washington Wizards. Sam represents the San Antonio Spurs. KOC calls and offers the number one overall pick for Dylan Harper. Koc, I would not offer that.
- [64:40]
Kevin O'Connor
I wouldn't offer that, first of all. But I'll argue.
- [64:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, that's not. That's not the rule.
- [64:45]
Kevin O'Connor
I know, I know. I know, exactly. This is role playing, but I'm role playing as a team that is super high on Dylan Harper. Boy, we want Dylan Harper, Sam. And we're willing to put the number one pick on the table in this conversation, but we're not doing it just for Dylan Harper. We're going to need some more draft capital from you.
- [65:07]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't have that written down. Go ahead, keep going.
- [65:12]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, look, I can't do it for more draft capital. Dylan Harper just had, quite literally the best rookie playoff run in the history of our organization, and one of the best playoff runs in the history of the NBA playoffs for a rookie. There's no way that we're giving up more value, but we're willing to have the conversation, you know, at least about Harper for number one. I think that I would probably, in addition to number one, need one of those earlier, you know, one of those picks that you have out into the future. I know you guys have done an amazing job of accumulating draft capital, you know, out into the future. Are there any of those picks that you'd be willing to give in addition to number one for me, for Dylan Harper? Because he's proven it at this point in a way that, you know, Even somebody like AJ DeBonsa or Darren Peterson hasn't.
- [66:03]
Kevin O'Connor
I mean, what has he proven really, though? Obviously, we know we can get to
- [66:06]
Sam Bassini
the rim proven a lot.
- [66:10]
Ryan Rosillo
What has he proven? It's like the best finals run for a rookie since Magic. So just so we're clear, all right, we can take off the masks now. You wouldn't offer the number one pick for Dylan Harper if you're in Washington. Okay. And, Sam, you wouldn't give up Dylan Harper for the number one pick or you would?
- [66:30]
Sam Bassini
Oh, I. I probably would, in all honesty.
- [66:34]
Kevin O'Connor
We're negotiating here, Ryan. That's what we're doing.
- [66:36]
Sam Bassini
Yeah. I have five I'm told to play roles. I would. I would probably be willing to do it, if only just because I think that, A, I would like to reset the rookie scale. If I was San Antonio, I'd be one year of cheaper contract. And B, I do have a higher grade on aj Cam and these guys. Actually, that's one situation, for what it's worth, where I actually would take Cam Boozer at number one. If you told me I'm getting Cam Boozer next to Victor Wembanyama, that would be absolutely terrifying.
- [67:09]
Kevin O'Connor
So that's a dream. Can you imagine? Oh, my goodness.
- [67:12]
Kyle
All right.
- [67:12]
Stella Blue Coffee Ad
I just.
- [67:12]
Ryan Rosillo
I just like the scenarios there. But two. Two guys, like, in fact, like, no doubts whatsoever. I. I wonder if San Antonio would actually just say no, though, and go, we. We can't do it because of everything we've done. And how about Castle?
- [67:24]
Kevin O'Connor
That's what I'd say. If I'm the first.
- [67:26]
Sam Bassini
I think that's actually probably what they would say,
- [67:31]
Ryan Rosillo
dear. And Fox probably also be available. All right, next scenario. So KOC is New Orleans.
- [67:39]
Sam Bassini
Good luck.
- [67:42]
Kevin O'Connor
I'm in trouble here.
- [67:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Sam is OKC.
- [67:45]
Kevin O'Connor
Oh, God.
- [67:47]
Ryan Rosillo
And Koc calls up OKC and says, we'll give you our unprotected at 28 for number 12. Oh, boy.
- [67:57]
Kevin O'Connor
What do you think, Sam?
- [67:58]
Sam Bassini
Yes. Yes.
- [68:03]
Ryan Rosillo
KFC. You were supposed to say, hey, we do business a little different down here in the buy you
- [68:10]
Stella Blue Coffee Ad
can.
- [68:10]
Sam Bassini
I also get. Is there any chance I can get my hands on Trey Murphy? In addition to that, unprotected.
- [68:18]
Ryan Rosillo
You might as well ask. Let's try a more serious one here.
- [68:21]
Kevin O'Connor
That might really happen.
- [68:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Sam represents OKC.
- [68:27]
Todd McShay
Yeah.
- [68:29]
Ryan Rosillo
And Koc represents Portland. And Sam offers up number 12 and 17 for Tusmani Kamara.
- [68:41]
Kevin O'Connor
I'm intrigued.
- [68:43]
Sam Bassini
Okay. I think I would. So hat off.
- [68:48]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know what is up with my pronunciations today. I just added an S to, like, one of my favorite players in the NBA, Tsumani. But no, I don't.
- [68:56]
Kevin O'Connor
I'm here for it.
- [68:57]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm gonna give myself a C minus.
- [68:58]
Sam Bassini
It's like one of those deals where, you know, look, Belgium's close to France, you know?
- [69:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Sure.
- [69:03]
Sam Bassini
You could see two being the plural. T, O, U, s. You know, it's all good. Okay.
- [69:08]
Kevin O'Connor
Tsunami or something. Was that what you said, Tsunami?
- [69:11]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I just threw an S in there. And honestly, if it were like week four of the NFL season I did, I can understand. But the NBA season is too fresh. I feel much worse about it than anybody else should.
- [69:21]
Sam Bassini
But it's an interesting idea here. So, okay, 12 for 12 and 17. I think that I would first offer. I'm going to offer you number 12 for Tomani Camara. Kevin, I really like to Monica Mara. I would be willing to also give you Lou Dort in this deal if you would be willing to send back. Do you be willing to send back a lottery prison protected first round, even a top 20 protected first rounder with Tamani Kamara for 12 and either Lou Dort or Isaiah Joe, depending on which one you prefer?
- [70:08]
Kevin O'Connor
That's absurd. We're not giving you up. We're giving another pick here, but we're giving you to Mani Camara, who is one of the best defensive players in all of the NBA and has become.
- [70:18]
Sam Bassini
I'm giving you one of the best defensive players in the NBA.
- [70:21]
Kevin O'Connor
These older to monies, only 26 years old, getting better on an upward trajectory as well. 37% from three last year on only five attempts per game. 37% this year on over seven attempts per game, improving every year. Still an elite defender. All for number 12, which is a bunch of uncertain picks. We're going to need at least 12 and 17 with Isaiah Joe. We don't need Lou Dort. We know how important he is to sga the Canadian connection. You guys can retain that. We'll just take Isaiah Joe instead. But we need 12 and 17 on top of your early second round draft pick as well.
- [71:02]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, just no chance I'm doing that. Yeah. Look, here's the reality. I just think financially we can't accept demonic Mara into our system. I think that we need to at the end of the day, you know, be cutting some money here. So we'd be willing to do it if we were getting off the Dort money and kind of locking in that salary long term with Tamani, where the numbers are pretty similar actually. But like, yeah, there's just. I don't think there's any way that we can add more money to the, to our books here while also giving up both of our expensive and frankly, potentially cheap salaried lottery top 20 picks this year.
- [71:41]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, stalemate. Okay, so now Koc represents Houston. Sam is running the show down in Atlanta. KOC offers up Tari Easton for the number eight pick.
- [71:56]
Sam Bassini
Hard pass for me.
- [71:59]
Kevin O'Connor
I'm like, you go first, Sam.
- [72:00]
Sam Bassini
I'm happy if I'm Atlanta. So here's how I would want this. So it has to be a sign and trade. And I have. I mean, my route to cap space is now removing Jonathan Kamingo from the books, so.
- [72:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, no, I would.
- [72:15]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, I know. Right. But like, there is a. What is the marginal difference between Tar Eason and Jonathan Kaminga? Right. So there's like a question there to me on some level. Is Tar Eason accepting the like, mid level? Is that what we're kind of saying here?
- [72:33]
Ryan Rosillo
That's why KOC calls you. Get rid of them. It's been a tough negotiation.
- [72:37]
Sam Bassini
Okay, so. So how are we formulating this beyond number eight? I would do 23 for Tari Eason. If it's been that tough of that tough of a negotiation, I'm willing to do number 23 for Tari.
- [72:50]
Kevin O'Connor
So just to be clear, this would have to basically be a double sign and trade is the way we'd be looking at this because Tari Eason at whatever salary number it's going to be.
- [72:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Right. We don't know what it's going to be. Yeah.
- [73:01]
Kevin O'Connor
So I think, like. So maybe perhaps Kaminga.
- [73:05]
Sam Bassini
Kaminga, yeah. Or opt in Kissbert option.
- [73:08]
Kevin O'Connor
How about Kispert plus Heel? Now we're cooking Kispert plus Risache, Something along those lines. Let's just talk about the money here. Kispert plus Risa Shay. That feels a solid starting point, right?
- [73:21]
Steve
Yeah.
- [73:22]
Sam Bassini
Okay. Kispert Risserchay and 23 for Tari East. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I don't know if I do that. I don't know if I do that, to be honest with you. Like having.
- [73:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Because the next one not. See, now I figured you were gonna hang up on him because you were like, why would I give up the eighth pick to move from Kaminga to Tari Eason? Like, I haven't. I haven't improved that much and I just gave up.
- [73:45]
Sam Bassini
Not all that interested. Yeah.
- [73:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. So then I was gonna have you hang up on him and now you're running the Clippers and KOC offers up Reed shepherd for the number five pick.
- [73:56]
Sam Bassini
Kfc. KFC would never.
- [73:57]
Kevin O'Connor
Never. I'd fire Odoka. Hire a coach who wants to play Reed shepherd first. If I'm.
- [74:07]
Sam Bassini
Can we. So I'm going to decline Reed shepherd for number five. Can we do, like, the realistic one here, which is Oklahoma City to me. Right. For number five.
- [74:18]
Ryan Rosillo
12 and 17 for five. That doesn't get it done.
- [74:21]
Kevin O'Connor
What else?
- [74:21]
Sam Bassini
But they have more is the thing. So.
- [74:23]
Ryan Rosillo
For sure. Right.
- [74:24]
Sam Bassini
Okay. More Then if I'm the Clippers. Right. And you, Kevin, like, if you're Oklahoma City, what are you willing to offer?
- [74:31]
Kevin O'Connor
I'd put 12 and 17 on the table to start for sure. And obviously I know that I have to give up more in that scenario, probably more future draft capital. But also, since the Clippers are trying to win, you might want a Lou Dort, you might want an Isaiah Joe or whoever it is. I'd imagine you'd want a player as well as just 12 and 17.
- [74:49]
Ryan Rosillo
I'd imagine I'd want payback. If I were Lawrence Frank,
- [74:54]
Sam Bassini
I would.
- [74:55]
Ryan Rosillo
I would tell Presti be like, hey, this is kind of the price and it's 20% more.
- [75:01]
Sam Bassini
So that's kind of what I'm going to. I'm going to ask for this. I want 12, I want 17, I want my swap for next year to be extinguished. So I'm getting. Oklahoma city owns the 2027 pick swap with the Clippers, and they have the positive end of that. I want that extinguished, and I want Jared McCain. Those are the four things I want, and I'm willing to do 12, 17, get rid of the pick swap Jared McCain, and I will give you five.
- [75:29]
Ryan Rosillo
The pick swaps probably irrelevant, though.
- [75:33]
Sam Bassini
Probably. But I want to. No, no, no, no, no, it's not. Because Oklahoma City is going to be.
- [75:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, wait, wait. I see what you're saying. They're going to have the Clippers pick, so that's actually so valuable. I would. There's no, I don't think there's any way they would do that. I apologize for that. They would absolutely be swapping because of what OKC's record is going to be
- [75:49]
Sam Bassini
from like 29 to somewhere. I mean, look, he's going to be insane next year, but, like, it could, I would say projected from anywhere from 10 to 15 in the ballpark of that, but could be anywhere.
- [76:03]
Kevin O'Connor
Sam, we can't give you Jared McCain, but we will give you that swap. Can you do that?
- [76:13]
Sam Bassini
If I tossed you back? Trying to think what we have here, what we have at our disposal here in terms of capital. Could you.
- [76:28]
Kevin O'Connor
We don't want another pick in this year's drafts. We don't want 36.
- [76:32]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, obviously you don't want another pick in this year's draft. We have a. I think I would need all of 12, 17, the swap and McCain, because going from tense right now, 12 to going from 5 to 12 is. Is a significant drop off in talent value, in my opinion. Like, I'm going from giving you guys Keaton Wagler, which by the way, might end up being another circumstance. We're giving you another big awesome guard who can dribble pass and shoot to taking like a Dai Mara or Hans Steinbach, which I'm not as interested in as I am in Keaton Wagler. So I think I would need 12, 17, the swap in Jared McCain. I think I would need all of them. If you're willing to like throw me an offer back where I'm adding something in addition. I'll consider that. But I think I, you know, like. Okay, let's say it's not McCain. Would you do Sorber in that case,
- [77:42]
Kevin O'Connor
how about we give you 37 and Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins in place of Jared McCain and we just call it a deal right here?
- [77:54]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, I mean, I like Wiggins on the value contract, but I think I would rather take the flyer on Sorber. Like could we do 12, 17, the extinguished pick swap and sorber for number five?
- [78:07]
Kevin O'Connor
No, we're not going to give up Sorber. Sorber. Sorber obviously missed all of last year. He's too skilled. He was our top ranked big on our board. We have a lot of belief in him. He's our guy, our potential successor to Isaiah Hartenstein. And if not, he's the guy who could potentially play behind him as soon as this season. So he's very important to our team. We need Sorbert and we can't give him up on the deal. But we will give you 37. We will extinguish the pick and we know how valuable that is for you guys to have that, especially with the new lottery rules. It takes on even more value next year asking for McCain on top of that, when you're getting 12, you can get a really good guard there. Who knows Ubuko Corey could end up the best guard. You never know. That's always possible.
- [78:50]
Ryan Rosillo
There's a reason why deadline pass, actually.
- [78:53]
Sam Bassini
Okay, so. So what one more offer here. Will you do two intense 1217, break it up into two parts, the extinguished pick and then you own a Denver pick next year as well.
- [79:12]
Kevin O'Connor
Now we're not, we're not giving up any other first. We're already giving you your swap back. We're already giving it to you and. And 37. You guys can trade 36 and 37.
- [79:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Too much animosity. There's too much bad history between the organ. I had another one where KOC got Reese's Shay, but I knew he would just say yes, so we'll just cancel that one out.
- [79:32]
Sam Bassini
I'M not.
- [79:32]
Kevin O'Connor
I'm not a recess.
- [79:33]
Ryan Rosillo
I know. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
- [79:34]
Kevin O'Connor
I had him 11th. I love the French.
- [79:36]
Taylor Twelman
You had him 11th.
- [79:37]
Kevin O'Connor
I had 11.
- [79:38]
Ryan Rosillo
That's a win. That's a win.
- [79:40]
Kevin O'Connor
I guess I get some dubs on the way out.
- [79:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Promote what you guys have so everybody can check out more at Yahoo Sports.
- [79:48]
Kevin O'Connor
So you can check out my NBA draft guide. What, 12 years now doing these. It's kind of crazy. It's been so long and I love putting them together. I'll be live on, on draft night as well over at Yahoo Sports, NBA on YouTube. And yeah, I'm fired up. I'm excited for this draft. I think it's going to be incredibly exciting. I think we're going to get a lot of trades after the top four. And I know we say that every year, but it feels like there's just even more noise and more movable teams this year. To, to our point of the conversation, we just had OKC 12 and 17, Charlotte 14 and 18, Dallas 9 and 30, Atlanta 8 and 23. A lot of potential movement this year.
- [80:26]
Sam Bassini
Yeah, Memphis in that like 16 range with all the draft capital that they have from the McCain and Bain, from the Bain and Jaren Jackson trades. Yeah. So go to the athletic. You know, as you know, Kevin's draft guide went up. Mine's also up there. Go there. You will get all sorts of breakdowns, information, whatever you need. Game theory, podcast, YouTube, Spotify, wherever you get podcasting stuff, video up on both of those platforms. We will be live for draft night and we appreciate everyone that comes through. And yeah, that's where it's at.
- [81:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Thank you so much guys and as always, enjoy the draft next week. What if you could add an AI assistant to your work without leaving your workflow built into Microsoft Word, Excel and Outlook? Copilot works where you work, helping you do more in the apps you already use in Excel. It generates insights from your data. I have data everywhere. I'm surrounded by data and I gotta be honest with you, it's not always organized. Trying to put together those monologues so that you can steal them and use them at happy hour or college reunions or first dates. I don't know how you use it, but it's there for you. And how do I put it together? By using Copilot to help me get through Excel, the apps, you know, Go further with Copilot. Learn more@m365copilot.com work we still have kind of draft news, which I may be embarrassed to be involved in, but it is a big story. Brandon Sorsby is now entering the supplemental draft and for a good 10 minutes here, our guy Todd McShay from the McShay show from Ringer. Also his McShay Report covering all this stuff. All right, so let's just spend a few minutes on this. We know that he was ruled by a Texas judge to be able to play at Texas Tech. And then in the middle of the night, all of the Big 12 got together and filed this massive lawsuit. And now Source B is going to enter the supplemental draf draft. Thoughts on just him as a draft prospect.
- [82:24]
Todd McShay
Yeah, this, this one's fascinating, right, because you've got a quarterback who wasn't. It didn't play to the level and show the consistency. If you go back and watch like early in the season, he was really making progress, right. And then he kind of tailed off towards the end. And I think that that, that factored into that combined with a $6 million opportunity to go have a final year of college experience. And despite knowing that he's entering into a draft class seemingly at that point that included Arch Manning, Dante Moore, potentially C.J. carr, Julian say, and Lenora Sellers and beyond. He's still recognized based off of probably, you know, his draft grade when he, when he sent in the, you know, his information to try to get a response from the advisory committee in the NFL and they give you back a first round grade, a second round grade, or go back to school. Cool. So the way I view him right now, 6 foot 3, 235 pounds, you watch his tape, and he was headed to Texas Tech. There's a lot of similarities, like the loose upper body, the floating around in the pocket, not structured to what we saw from Patrick Mahomes coming out of Texas Tech. And I remember at the time, I probably learned more from that evaluation than any other player. And since then have adjusted to like results and traits at that position rather than like the old, like Jaworski Hodge, like, you know, I used to call him the NFL. What was. The biker gang would come up to ESPN every, every year and tell you all the mechanics are wrong and they can't play in the National Football League. And so we've seen guys like, like Mahomes and, and Josh Allen and Lamar.
- [84:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Cam Ward's probably a little bit like that.
- [84:12]
Todd McShay
Cam Ward. It's traits and results. And if we get time and we develop them properly, they can be special in the league, even though they're not there now. But they have the mobility and the creativity and some of those traits when they don't have the answers between their ears right away to extend a play and get out of trouble and maybe one big play can make up for two or three plays where they missed opportunity. So he is big, he's got a strong arm, he's mobile. He like when I watched Jackson Dart, I remember saying it was, I think it was 167 plays on his pressure reel. Right. Every single time he was pressured through his last year at Ole Miss and despite not having the size and necessarily the arm of Josh Allen, there was a lot of similarities in like you've got this strong, mobile, creative guy who's always like kind of invites the pressure and in the chaos and thrives and so almost like the, the, the heart rate goes down, you know, he's got a lot of those qualities. I think Jackson Dart is a pretty good, pretty good comp for him. I think that he's, he's. I see some similarities with Mahomes in that like he can do so many things but he's not there yet. But where do you take this guy? And I asked that because skills wise and even like the national list, right. It comes out and it's a kind of a younger entry level area scout who winds up giving a grade and then they come together as a committee and. But he was in the top 25 or so in that, in it for the National. And a lot of people including myself are looking at him saying, you know what, he's not where Arch is and he's certainly not where Dante is. But he and Sellers, Lenore Sellers from South Carolina are the two guys to keep an eye on because if they take those next steps, like we saw Cam Ward in his final year at Miami, we saw Jaden Daniels in his second and final year at lsu. We've seen, we saw Mendoza last year, like the difference in tape from Cal, which was really exciting about what it could be to the more of a finished type product at Indiana. We've seen this now Bo Nicks, another guy. So I, I think we were all hopeful another year was going to allow him to take those next steps at Texas Tech and become a potential top 10 pick.
- [86:30]
Taylor Twelman
Right.
- [86:30]
Todd McShay
In a class that's projected to be maybe one of the best quarterback classes we've seen in the history of the NFL draft. So all that said is like traits wise. Yeah, potentially you could see a team like the jets with three first round picks. You could see a team like the Browns with two first round picks. You've Got other teams like Arizona, Minnesota, I wouldn't rule out Atlanta, Carolina, all sitting there with situations that could lead them to say, you know what, what, Bring him in, get him in the building early, develop him mentally, get him ready for the 2027 season and we get a jump on that. But then there's the big question.
- [87:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you trust him?
- [87:10]
Todd McShay
Do you trust the addiction aspect of it? Do you trust the decision making? Do you trust him? Even on the tape with like his processing and where he's going at the first reads not there. So that's the question that is facing a lot of NFL teams. I don't think he's going to be a first round pick pick, but I'd be surprised if he. I think third would be the latest. I know some people are saying, well he should be fourth or fifth round. He's not there. He's raw. I see too much talent for him not to be. For a team not to take a chance in the second or third round.
- [87:40]
Ryan Rosillo
And how would that process play out too? They basically are submitting the pick because we haven't what, had a supplemental draft pick in seven years or something?
- [87:48]
Todd McShay
Yeah, I think it was 2019. Was it Jalen Thompson, Right. The safety was drafted maybe in the fifth round, Arizona. And there was a supplemental draft as recently as 2023, but no one was picked. Right. It's interesting, like, so here's what I do know for a fact what happens is you're broke. The draft order is broken into three tiers, Ryan. And it's teams with six wins or fewer last year go into a lottery. That's the first pot. And there's a lot of a weighted lottery and that will determine the order of those top picks. Then there's the second tier of teams with seven wins or more that didn't make the playoffs, same process. And then finally the playoff teams, same process, lottery weighted and come up with an order. So that's how you create the order. Teams then go in and they submit a bid. It's a blind auction of we. If he's available when we pick in a second round at pick 48, whatever it is, we'll take him. So this whole process lasts a matter of like seconds essentially. My understanding is like the everyone like a representative, like all log in and then it's decided. But what's also interesting, like talking yesterday with Albert Breer, he came on our show and he said he got clarity from the league that or from a source that like the team like the jets or the Browns who have multiple first round picks they can determine they could tell the league if they were to choose to use one of those first round picks. We want to use. If you're the jets, we want to use the Cowboys pick, you know, not our original pick or the Browns could use the Rams pick instead of their pick if they were so. So to choose then I saw Schefter say yesterday on McAfee that it was they had to use their original pick, which is what I, what I understood originally. So I was just texting before I jumped on with you with Schefter and he said he thought that was the case but gave me a, you know, so I'm reaching out to the league offices now to get clarity on that. Like that's. And for his buttoned up think about the league. Right. Like as buttoned up as every single detail is. And I'm not saying the league doesn't have the answer and I'm about to get it, you know, shortly. I do think that Brear got that answer and I think he's right that you can use on any one of your first round picks. And it might be a moot point because I'm not projecting that someone's going to use a first round pick. But the supplemental draft because of that fact that it just hasn't been much of a fact factor. Like we all remember Terrell Pryor and then like all the way back to Bernie Kozar and Chris Carter. Like it used to be much more of a thing. People are still at this moment with the June 22 date for Sorsby having to, to, you know, the league having to give him permission to be in the supplemental draft and a late July supplemental draft. There's still people in the league and some of the top information people's people around the league are still seeking clarity on this process.
- [90:47]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [90:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Prior being a third round pick from the Raiders is the most Raiders thing ever back in 2011. And I do think there are times that I just remembered doing it more day to day and we kind of like lose our minds about any kind of potential supplemental draft pick that's a quarterback because it's just good NFL content and it's going to happen again. And then it kind of pivots into like, is he really like this? But look, you, you have a higher evaluation on him than I thought that you would because I also realized like he wasn't part of this draft class. So you and I had never really talked about him.
- [91:18]
Taylor Twelman
Yeah.
- [91:18]
Ryan Rosillo
At all. And you know, on top of everything else, like it's just. Are you going to. There's going to be plenty of teams in front office. Like this guy bet 9,000 times and bet overs on opponents. Like, we're just not, we're not doing that. So I feel like it's going to take up a lot of air time and it may actually be incredibly insignificant.
- [91:44]
Todd McShay
How can you say that, though? Because, like, I, I texted. So I was gone in Italy for a couple weeks.
- [91:51]
Sam Bassini
Right.
- [91:51]
Todd McShay
And.
- [91:51]
Ryan Rosillo
And must be nice.
- [91:53]
Todd McShay
Yeah, it was nice. So I had a haircut in like six weeks. And I'm. I'm doing whatever the hell I'm doing.
- [91:58]
Ryan Rosillo
You're not afraid you'll grow it out sometimes? I love it.
- [92:01]
Todd McShay
Yeah. But. But during that trip, I, you know, checked in and, oh, it's official. He's going back to school. And then I come back and we weren't even supposed to start until next week and had to kind of jump in yesterday and, and get involved because there's now finality to this lingering issue that's been going on literally since the day after the draft.
- [92:21]
Sam Bassini
Right.
- [92:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay.
- [92:22]
Todd McShay
And. And so when I hear that. So when I get back from this trip, I'm like, now I'm scrambling and texting people because I know my evaluation and to me that's the foundation. But also, just like the NFL draft, I want to reach out to people in the league to make sure that I'm representing what people in the league are saying. And everyone I reached out to said that if they had to bet, essentially it would be second round, that he's. That a team's going to take a chance in the second round and that it wouldn't go later than the third? Now, I've read other people say that he's fourth or fifth and all that, but how is it not of some significance that this quarterback that I'm telling you in the league's telling you this guy can be a good starting quarterback and a difference maker in the league. There's only 32 of those guys, man. It's the biggest sport in America. How is this not significant? I'm not like, it doesn't do anything for my ratings or anything like that.
- [93:18]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I understand that.
- [93:18]
Todd McShay
I'm not being chill, but this guy could be one of the 32. So you're right. I should say ruin my, my vacation, the end of my vacation, because it actually is pretty significant. You know what I mean?
- [93:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I don't know that your vacation had to be ruined because of it. I should not have said insignificant. What I would say is that in a void of like other kind of NFL storylines, this is going to be like a daily check in topic which I don't know that it's, it's worth that. So. Yeah, I, I. Poor choice of words. But the, the value of what this is versus the amount of hours that people are going to hear, you know, committed to this topic. I, I think there's going to be a.
- [94:04]
Todd McShay
Understood. And, and if he was one of 10 quarterbacks we were talking about next year, it certainly wouldn't garner this attention. But. Yeah, but because it's the NFL, because he's a quarterback. Because it's the time of year where it's kind of a dead period in news like this. This is it, man. It's that or go, go watch get up and talk about the Cowboys again. Like that's kind of your choice.
- [94:23]
Kevin O'Connor
Which.
- [94:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. I remember daily Ezekiel Elliott contract stuff, you know, like will Pickens be franchise.
- [94:29]
Todd McShay
We're on CD Lamb now.
- [94:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Or.
- [94:31]
Todd McShay
Or no Pickens. It was. That's. I actually, I walked through my living room this morning and we get the Cowboys back up and rolling. Here we go. It's June, whatever the date is.
- [94:42]
Ryan Rosillo
You know what, though? If you're telling me that there's competition, it'll be a second. That means somebody will probably throw a first in there. If there's that many teams, I was surprised because it's a blind thing. You don't think there's one. Granted, the Raiders aren't running the same operation as they used to be, and they just took a quarterback number one overall, so we can rule them out. But that's a lot of times, like the blind bidding thing makes one team go, hey, let's just.
- [95:11]
Todd McShay
There's no question. And I, I think it's important. Like even Todd Monk in the Browns coach, when he was asked about it a few weeks back, it was like, yeah, that's a slippery slope. There's a lot of layers to it. I just don't know. And then, and Then like within 72 hours or whatever it was Andrew Berry, the GMs like, yeah, but we're not, we're not ruling that out, you know, So I think general managers are in this position of what if he. What if he's a guy, you know, and the tape says that there's a lot of potential there and we get them in the building a year ahead of time. And the other part too is the league. From everyone I was talking to inside the league, it's. We're trying to seek clarity right now because there's two things that fans of the NFL should know about this. One is the they, the teams want desperately clarity in what the punishment will be. Assuming there will be. Is it a two game suspension? Is it a five game suspension? Is it a year long suspension? Do we have an opportunity to get this guy on the field if we so choose and he's ready to, you know, whether it's a Patrick Mahomes at the end of the season to get some snaps or play the last five games? Because our team, our season is tanked and we want to see what we got in this young man before we enter into a draft where there's a bunch of other guys and it wouldn't be the first time the Arizona Cardinals did it one year to the next where you go and draft another quarterback in the first round.
- [96:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Kyler Murray.
- [96:40]
Todd McShay
Murray. So, so there's, there's that element of it which is, which I think is, is very intriguing. The other element of it is this, this is unique to have a quarterback come in the league with this kind of situation and baggage. Yeah, I mean, I mean you're dating, you're, you're potentially going on a blind date with the girl in town or the boy in town who's like known to have the most baggage right now. Right. And so what you'd like to have is a long extended period like you have with the draft. The season ends, you've got the Senior bowl, you've got private meetings, you've got meetings at the combine, you've got your psychologists and your security team and all these people. Plus you've had 15 months with scouts going and talking to the people in the training hall and figuring out and going to the local bars and restaurants like finding out exactly who this human being is. Now you've got the shortened window the end of July and there's not an exact date set. We know June 22nd. Talking about it within a week is when he will officially it'll be decided that the league will allow him to be in the supplemental draft. And then you've got about a month period before the actual draft occurs. And I'm told too that there will be a pro day probably at. Was it South Lake, one of the, whatever Texas high school he played at and that also there's going to be a week window where all these teams I just mentioned, like from the, from the, the jets to the Browns to the, to the Dolphins, the, the Falcons, the Cardinals, potentially the Vikings, like there's a list of maybe 10 teams that realistically could Pull the trigger on this young man. They're all going to want him in their building. They're all going to want to have a private workout with them, but there's only a one week window to do so. So not only do you have to try to get that personal one on one time with them that you are accustomed to with all these quarterbacks, but then you only get this short one month period to kind of figure out what is this addiction. Where is he in that? You can't tell me with knowledge of addiction that going to a program for 30 days or whatever, it wound up being that like, okay, we're good, you know, 9,000 bets, the whatever the amount of money and the type of bets and the obsessive level of it. So there's just a lot to sort through that there's enough there where if he does fall to the third, fourth, fifth round, it's because of that. It's not the tape evaluation. Tape evaluation says, you know what, I'd be willing to take him in the late first. I certainly would use a second round pick on a quarterback. But there's, there may be so much to sort through that it, it you proceed with caution and say, you know what, we'll do it, a fourth round pick. But I'm not willing to take this chance, especially knowing you got all those names I just listed off earlier sitting there getting ready for the 2027 draft and we get another year to evaluate them.
- [99:40]
Ryan Rosillo
That's Todd McShay, the McShay Report, part of Ringer, also his McShay show, part of Ringer, and then the McShay Report where you can read all of his written word. Thank you, Chuck.
- [99:50]
Todd McShay
Go, go get, go get some more important things on your show, like, you know, the NBA off season where, where's away where the Celtics, Giannis, is that happening?
- [100:04]
Ryan Rosillo
I think Milwaukee is very tough to deal with. You just hear over and over again how they'll get like close on something and then they kind of pull back. And so when there was all this momentum over the weekend that it was definitely happening, then there were other teams that I talked to that said that they were still talking to Milwaukee about potential offers. So I think the Jaylen Brown thing being rerouted in Milwaukee, getting extra picks out of it makes a ton of sense. So I wouldn't rule it out. I think it's a massive tab that comes with Giannis, but I think the certainty, with the way it was talked about a few days ago, I'm not saying it's not going to happen, but I don't know that it didn't feel as certain last night when I was talking to people on the phone about just the draft and stuff. And then Giannis came by up, so.
- [100:47]
Todd McShay
And I love how I called him Giannis instead of Giannis because my brain is still on the.
- [100:51]
Sam Bassini
On the.
- [100:51]
Todd McShay
On Puglia, on the coast.
- [100:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, man, I like to start forgetting starting left tackles this time of year. You know how it is. It's. Yeah, it's.
- [100:59]
Todd McShay
It's a down period. All right, brother, good talking to you.
- [101:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Thank you. See you soon. What if you can add an AI assistant to your work without leaving your workflow built in? A Microsoft Word, Excel, and Outlook Copilot works where you work, helping you do more in the apps you already use in Outlook. Look, it cuts through the noise to get you up to speed faster. It works, people. It works. I denied it at first. I'm like, I can't have some computer write my emails for me. And then you look at their suggestion. They're like, hey, do you want me to clean this up? They're so friendly about it, you know, non evasive. It's like, there's a chance I could put some words together in a better order than you can. And guess what? They almost always do, usually do the apps, you know, go further with Copilot. Learn more@m365copilot.com Words work. This is an exciting time of year because we get to talk to a guy we love talking to on this show. He heads the coverage of the MLS for Apple tv. Taylor Twelman talking some World Cup. Good to see you, man.
- [101:59]
Taylor Twelman
You too, buddy. You love me so much. It's what, once every four years? Yeah, I'll answer that.
- [102:06]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [102:06]
Ryan Rosillo
But it makes him special. That's true.
- [102:08]
Taylor Twelman
That's true. I'm an acquired taste, pal.
- [102:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, it is good to see you because you're an awesome guest. So, fine, I'll have you on. You know what? Next time. It's Champions League.
- [102:20]
Taylor Twelman
We do every two years. Every two years is fine. That's better.
- [102:24]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, every two years. We'll lock him in now for 2028 summer. All right, so I'm watching. I'm into it. You know that I'm a convert to this sport is we've spent time talking about it, and so I still don't know what I'm really watching, but I'm. I'm watching that 4:1 result going, all right, this looks different. So give me your perspective. That performance that we saw in the opener Against Paraguay. Where is that for US Men's national soccer?
- [102:50]
Taylor Twelman
It's up there, buddy. It's really up there. I think in large part because you got to have a confluence of things come together. The occasion, the pressure, and then the performance. And it's rare in the US Men's World cup history that all three align. I go back to 2002 opening game against Portugal. We're all watching probably four or five o' clock in the morning because it's in South Korea and Japan. But that kind of performance is statement with Ronaldo and Figo and everybody else on the other side, and you're sitting here saying, hang on a minute. The men are up three nil. Well, the game doesn't end that way. From the opening whistle to the final whistle, the United States made a statement that they can handle the pressure. Pressure, that they're up for this. Now, Ryan, for your audience, it's important that many of us have said on an individual level, this is the golden generation of player. We've never had players playing at these clubs around the world where individually, you could argue that it is the most talented team. Now, collectively, they haven't had their moment yet. Now, I think Paraguay is there, but I actually think another moment's going to come because what I saw against Paraguay was we understand the moment, we understand the magnitude of the moment, and we recognize that we actually can set the standard by which every other performance should be judged. I'm not talking about the scoreline, but I'm talking about the performance that was as good as it gets when it comes to the men. It really was.
- [104:23]
Ryan Rosillo
We had Alexi Lawless on last week, and I thought he said something really interesting and like, the identity of of U.S. soccer now in that he's like, you know, 30 years ago, we were kind of like this grinded out defensive team. And he's like, I don't know if it was him being protective of his era of soccer, which certainly wouldn't make him unique of an older athlete. And I didn't really take it that way necessarily as a negative. But he's like, I'm worried about our defense. I'm worried about our goalkeeping. We've always had incredible goalkeepers. We've always had kind of like, we're going to just try to ugly up the game. He's like, and now we've pivoted to having these playmakers, and who knows what that means? But I'll tell you, it's a hell of a lot more fun because watching that match and Seeing guys just be able to get free, to be able to get good attempts on the goal where you're like, this looks so different from every other version of this that I've seen in the past. Is that accurate?
- [105:14]
Taylor Twelman
Yes, dude. Yes, it is. And the other part too is, Ryan, we, we. We have to clarify who Paraguay was in World cup qualifying. They only gave up six, six goals in qualifying. They beat Brazil. So while everyone right away is like, yeah, it's only Paraguay. Hang on a minute, hang on a minute. Like, I'm not saying Paraguay was ever going to score four goals against you. That's not who they are. But they only gave up six goals in South America qualifying. So to come out and quite honestly, the United States could have scored five or six goals on the night easily. Yes, I, I've always been a believer of this. I'd rather. Now you're talking to a center forward where Alexi Lawless was a center back. So you're going to get two perspectives. I'd rather try to win a game four, three than try to win a game one nil. Because at least you're going for it. At least you're not playing with scared money. And scared money doesn't make money, as you and I both know, and many people know exactly what I mean by that. If you're all in and you believe in it, it doesn't matter what the scoreline is, is. And what I saw against Paraguay. Listen, Alexis, not wrong. This is the first World cup since 1990. We didn't know who our number one goalkeeper was a week before the tournament. This is the first time since 1990 we don't really have a dominating center back pair. And yet we have a collection of players that are completely competent going forward, that are completely comfortable going forward. So why not play into that? Now, you and I were talking before the Australia game. Australia is really good on the counter. They're actually even more defensive than Paraguay is. So this is going to be a little bit of a difficult test for the United States, particularly Tim Ream and his pace and all that, but still try to win the game, Ryan. Go for it. And if you got to win 4:1, and if you got to win 3:2, at least you're gonna get more attention from the general public because there's substance and style versus just substance.
- [107:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Give me an NBA comp for Pulisic.
- [107:20]
Taylor Twelman
Good one. Real good one. Sga.
- [107:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay.
- [107:28]
Taylor Twelman
The way he moves off the ball, the way he reads the game, the way he uses his body, his quickness with and without the ball. Equally impressive, the ability to create things out of nothing. Now, it's a little disingenuous because we're talking about the MVP of the best league in the world. And Christian Pulisic is not a top 40 player in the world. However, he's really good. But Ryan, I know where you're going with this and I think your audience will appreciate that. This. The United States does not have a superstar, but they have four players that if they play together very high at the same time, it's almost more important. Chris Richards, Tyler Adams, Weston McKenna, Christian Pulisic. Those four collectively are a superstar and they're actually more beneficial to the United States than just having a 45 minutes that we got against Paraguay with Christian Pulisic. You need all four. They got all four. And if they do, then I think it's realistic to say this team could win one or two knockout stage, knockout round games.
- [108:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Where is the development of young players today in comparison to when you were coming up?
- [108:46]
Taylor Twelman
It's exponentially different.
- [108:48]
Ryan Rosillo
It's.
- [108:49]
Taylor Twelman
It's actually impossible to even compare because is it better? Yeah, it's better. The resources are better. So if I showed you my WhatsApp for the last, I would say 18 months to 2 years since Messi's been in MLS in the amount of scouts that are watching Major League Soccer asking questions about the 17 to 24 year old kids. This kid, Gozo from Real Salt Lake, he's only been playing for four months on the first team and he's going to go for 10 to 12 million to somewhere in the Premier League. Alex Freeman, Antonio Freeman's son, who now starts in the World Cup. Two years ago, Orlando City were like, we don't know who he's going to be. They, they kind of gave him a chance, said, let's go up. They sell him to Via Real. There's hundreds of players. I like that, Ryan. So it's just the United States. MLS is still just getting their toes in the water of understanding what they have. But 32 years ago, when the World cup came in 94, the legacy was the beginning of MLS. Right now on this team, 21 of 26 players, 21 of 26 played in MLS or were developed in MLS. It's growing like a weed. And right now the world's got everyone's attention on the young players in the United States of America. It's just a, it's just a reality.
- [110:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Does anything piss you off more than when they say what if, if NFL and NBA players play?
- [110:12]
Taylor Twelman
Oh my God, it drives me nuts.
- [110:14]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, all right. Give me. Is it. Give me the explanation of why you who've played so it's going to be hard for me to argue with you here.
- [110:25]
Taylor Twelman
No, no, no.
- [110:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Why it's so bad. Why it's such a. Well, why does it drive you so nuts? Because it's clearly something you think that is incredibly stupid when people say it. Every time the World cup comes around,
- [110:34]
Taylor Twelman
the best player of all times. 5, 8, 1, 6. What does athletics have anything to do? What are you talking about? What are you talking about? So you tell me right now. Chris Paul.
- [110:43]
Ryan Rosillo
I thought Ronaldo was tall. Yeah, I'm just kidding.
- [110:46]
Taylor Twelman
Exactly. Like. So Chris Paul dedicates his whole life to soccer. I hear this one. Barry Sanders dedicates his whole life. I love the LeBron James claim to fame. Like, what position is LeBron gonna play at? 6, 9, 2, 60. Okay, first and foremost. But like we're almost saying, like, Killian Mbappe is not an athlete. Has anyone watched him? He can run 100 meters basically at 11 seconds. What are we talking about? Athletics? It's way more the best player of all time. LIONEL Messi is 581-60- you look at him, he should be doing your taxes, not playing for Argentina. And yet what is it? So, so that one bothers me. The other one actually might bother me more is the population and its correlation to being. Good newsflash. Netherlands, Croatia, what? How many combined people in those two countries?
- [111:39]
Stella Blue Coffee Ad
Verde.
- [111:40]
Taylor Twelman
Cape Verde. Right. So if population really mattered, China and India be dominating everything. They can't even qualify for the World Cup. So it's just. There's an ignorance there, Ryan, to that. I'm not saying. I'm not. And I'm not an idiot. You know me, I love all sports.
- [111:57]
Kevin O'Connor
Sports.
- [111:58]
Taylor Twelman
I'm not saying that there's not a point guard or a wide receiver in the history of the NBA or the NFL that could have been a fantastic soccer player. But if you think that directly just saying that athlete goes to this, then why does Lionel Messi have 921 goals in his career and 818 assists in his career and he wouldn't play any other sport in the United States of America because he's too small.
- [112:25]
Ryan Rosillo
I am completely with. I, I'm completely with you on the, the height thing, you know, because I used to think like, well, why wouldn't it make more sense? Especially like you're in your box and you're fighting over these corners. Why would you not want Russell Westbrook in there? Like If Westbrook.
- [112:39]
Taylor Twelman
It's a great idea.
- [112:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. And I'm not talking about Westbrook going like, where's my jersey? The clear developmental path of like, I love soccer. It's my number one thing. I guess it's just when I think of just the way sports work. If for soccer for generations was like the fourth or fifth options for so many athletes, especially when I was coming up and playing all sorts of different sports. If you just eliminated football, American football being a priority, basketball is so international now, you can argue that it's real competition for young athletes throughout the world. But. But, you know, forget the height thing. You win. But, you know, if d' Angelo ponds the corner for Indiana, I know exactly who's just a beast. Just battling out there at 59 with all these freaks at wide receiver.
- [113:29]
Taylor Twelman
Yes.
- [113:29]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know how you could argue that if all of those guys prioritize soccer the way other countries do, that we wouldn't be better positioned internationally, we'd
- [113:38]
Taylor Twelman
be better positioned athletically. I'm not sure where we are tactically. I'm not. I don't understand that. Like. Like when I look, when I watch France play Senegal. And I think a lot of your listeners won't know this, so it's important to. So just follow me on this. The Senegalese national team that beat Thierry Henry In France in 2002, 17 of those 23 players were educated tactically in France. So the athletic part of it. Sure. I'm not going to sit here and say that it wouldn't help the United States of America if Barry Sanders was your right back. I'm not going to say. No chance. Absolutely. It would have. Absolutely. But is he there tactically? Is he there? I don't know. I mean, that's what I'm saying.
- [114:24]
Ryan Rosillo
So you're talking about the teaching. So if I gave you the pool of all of these athletes giving your sport top priority, that the training still would have been so far inferior to these other countries.
- [114:37]
Taylor Twelman
Inferior, no. But I don't know, based on American football, where 90% of that sport is what strength, athleticism. Okay. My sports, the Spanish national team that is arguably the greatest national team run of all time. Xavi Iniesta. 5, 8, 1 4. 152 of the best midfielders of their generation. They'd be accountants in the United States of America if they. If they were here, because they would have been told they're too small. All I'm saying is there's so much nuance to my sport that I find it very Ignorant of the American public to just assume Adrian Peterson is wearing nine for the United States national team. We win the World cup, it's like, I don't know if that's true. I don't. You have, by the way.
- [115:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, look, you've converted me on that part of it of me thinking like, well, why wouldn't that be a good thing? Like, if, if we've had some talk, like, look at Earling yesterday. You're like, so tall, guys don't work. Or is it just that he's a freak and that just penciling in everyone at like 6, 4 and above going like, hey, all the basketball players are playing soccer now. They're going to win the World Cup. That part of it. Now I'm more on your side, I guess. I just, I think it's a numbers thing where if we have all these other sports here.
- [116:02]
Taylor Twelman
Yes, that's the argument. I also have kind of foamed at the mouth of, like, Allen Iverson playing left wing. You know what I mean? Like, what if Allen Iverson did that from age 8 on? Like, I kind of would want to see it. Absolutely. I would love to see that. I just, I. I just, I've been in this sport too long to be exposed to greatness, and Lionel Messi has completely wired me differently. Ryan, I am so un American now, watching him for the last two and a half years for Inter Miami. He is defying everything. He's better than he was four years ago. How is that possible?
- [116:44]
Ryan Rosillo
That first goal yesterday, that pass to lead him, I'm. That is just. And I'm so glad that I watched it because I was like, hey, Messi's on. This is a six times. Like, you're not going to get this chance again. Like, throw it on. And it was so much fun to just see his brilliance. And, you know, the thing that always stands out to me is that it's. It's like that basketball player who you're like, there's three guys on him. How did he get that shot off? I'm constantly amazed to see him control double and triple teams. I know you guys don't necessarily term it that way, but.
- [117:15]
Taylor Twelman
No, but, no, no.
- [117:16]
Ryan Rosillo
It's the crowd that is around him, the attention, and how he gets clear of it, how he can get a shot off out of it where so many other guys are just. They can't get it. They can't get a clean look. They can't get it. They're dicking around with the ball. They kick it out to somebody else, like, Uneducated guys like me are like, how come you're just not shooting?
- [117:32]
Taylor Twelman
And it's like guys around him every time, every time.
- [117:36]
Ryan Rosillo
And he finds a way to get an angle.
- [117:39]
Taylor Twelman
It's. You and I are roughly the same age. It's very similar to watching Michael Jordan play. I'm telling you, it's eerily similar. When you watch Jordan, when.
- [117:48]
Ryan Rosillo
How is he better? I'm not disagreeing. How is it possible that he's better than four years ago?
- [117:55]
Taylor Twelman
It's really. It's a mental health thing. All the pressure when he won in 22, it was as if all the pressure in the world. Now he's playing with house money. He doesn't even care. I mean, you know what I'm saying? He cares. But he's already cemented his legacy, so everything now doesn't matter. I don't find it ironic at all. He wins the World Cup. He goes to MLS for the first time in his professional career. He leads World cup qualifying and goal scorer. He's never done that before when he was at Barcelona and he was an eight time Ballon d' or winner. He then goes after MLS for two and a half years. They qualify for the World Cup. He's now in his first game in a World cup and he scores his hat trick for the first time ever. I mean, you watched the game last night. It's. He. He tilts the field more than any player. And it's very difficult. It's easy to tilt the court in basketball. There's only 10 guys on the court and one guy can tilt that court very quickly in his favor, in his team's favor. It's very odd to see it in my sport. Very odd. And it is remarkable to me, wherever he is on the field, there's this force field around him where the field in the game bends to where he is. Ryan, it was crazy. The other part is the second goal. 99 out of 100 times, that ball is saved by the goalkeeper and there's no rebound to any player. And yet he's there. It's great. It's crazy. That's what he does. Yeah.
- [119:27]
Ryan Rosillo
And look, I mean, he could have had a fourth, but he was clearly outside on the first one.
- [119:31]
Taylor Twelman
He also could have a red card, by the way. He could have easily had a red card, but that referee was not given giving Messi a red.
- [119:39]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't have any offsides thoughts because I don't want to embarrass myself here.
- [119:42]
Taylor Twelman
No, you feel free.
- [119:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Is there any way that you could have it be like within.
- [119:50]
Todd McShay
No.
- [119:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Instead of it being like letter of the law, this person's offsides, like a gray area of being like even plus, you know what I'm saying? Like the width of a body, you know, almost like the length of a horse. Is there a way to make the game. I hate doing this to you because now I'm fixing things, which is like my least favorite content. But it just feels like, go ahead, you know what I'm saying? So just finish.
- [120:14]
Taylor Twelman
Ryan, it's a great question. First off, it is not a stupid question. It's such a good question that Arson Wenger has brought this up. The fantastic French manager for Arsenal has brought this up here to. Yeah, you have no clue who I'm talking about, which is amazing. I will say that this. So back in the day, 70s, 80s, they had a 35 yard line, like a blue line in hockey. No chance that's going to work. And quite honestly, it's stupid because there's nuance to offside north sport. But I agree with you on this. And the problem with offside and var, and I've said this, it's like circumcising a mosquito right now. It just. Right when you get down to the finites and it's like his toenail is offside. Said we, we gotta stop this. No. And Arson Wenger has mentioned. Is it a shoulder? Is it a length of a foot? Is it. Is there some grace period? So it breeds attacking soccer. What I love about the World cup and every league's gonna try to do it, but it's so expensive is the immediacy of the answer. It's very difficult. Even the Premier League will spend five minutes over a video, which by the way, if you don't know the answer in less than 30 seconds, the answer is not clear and obvious. So let the play stand. But you're on to something. And Ryan, I think the future of the game it will lead itself to. There's going to be a little bit of a grace window period because you really can't dissect that to millimeters. Otherwise you're going to be really doing an injustice to the game. It's a great question.
- [121:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I see some similarities with var, with the out of bounds replay stuff, where forever, for decades, it's like, hey, I have the ball, it's in my hands. You swipe at it and it's not a foul. And that's my ball. It's been my ball on that play for 60, 70 years. And then with replay, we've decided, like, no, it actually rolled off your fingernail as I swiped the ball out. So now it's our ball and you go, I. I know what you're saying. I don't want that to happen. I don't want that to be what that is. And I think a lot of us that tune in and we start seeing the outside stuff, it's like, God, I understand what the rule is, but that seems to be. It's.
- [122:31]
Taylor Twelman
It's sometimes even like, did he survive the ground? And you're like, oh, my God.
- [122:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [122:37]
Taylor Twelman
Like, how was that?
- [122:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, that's been a catch forever. I guess it's not a catch now, right? All right, let's crank up the education value of this. This soccer conversation. Ces just ready to go.
- [122:51]
Taylor Twelman
It's kind of both, Ryan. It's kind of both, like, on and off. It's like, I'm kind of third fiddle here.
- [122:57]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I'm actually going to lay out. I'm going to. I'm just going to let my.
- [123:00]
Steve
Don't do that. No, don't do that. Because Twman, Ryan and I were talking before, you know, I was like, feeding him some questions and things like that, but he genuinely, like, he'll watch. He, He. He wants to learn about the game.
- [123:09]
Taylor Twelman
The question was real, Ceruti. It's real. It's not the fake stuff that I get from other media members. It's real, which I love.
- [123:16]
Steve
I was going to ask, like, you know, just the thing that, like, every four years, like, you get hit up about, like, oh, American guy wants to fix the sport. And it's always, it's always the, hey, these players, if they play it or whatever. Now it's the water breaks, which, the hydration breaks, I should say, which are dumb. But, like, are they. Are they, like, we're a little bit overselling how dumb they are. Like, it doesn't really take anything away from my viewing experience. It's like, it's 90 seconds of commercials. I don't really care. I think people feel like America's, like, bastardizing this beautiful game.
- [123:43]
Taylor Twelman
Well, they're blaming America for it. Serruti, I'm glad you brought this up, up, but this started in 2022 World Cup. Now, here's my issue. The hydration break was based on players over 85 degrees and the humidity over 80%. Sure. Absolutely. You should. Absolutely should. We've had players die on the field with heart and everything. Christian Erickson, Euros, Whatever. Sure. Take care of them. Absolutely. But they're playing in Dallas and it's 72 degrees in an air conditioned building. They're playing it so flat.
- [124:12]
Sam Bassini
So.
- [124:13]
Taylor Twelman
So like that's where I'm like, hang on a minute. It's not for that. Just come out and say it's for capitalism.
- [124:17]
Steve
Right.
- [124:18]
Taylor Twelman
Just be honest. That's fine now. I will. And I've said this, so it's not like you shouldn't leave the field though for commercials. So in two of the games that they've left, the broadcasters have left, subs have happened or a tactical decision has happened. No, wait, it's 90 seconds. And in my sport, our sports are. Rudy Ryan. This is part of this, the. The game that you would love if you saw more of it is when they're getting the hydration. Many coaches have computers, have whiteboards out, there's tactical changes, there's real live content being presented, and instead I'm being sold the Michelob Ultra. No problem. I love a good Ultra. But you know what I'm saying, thing like that, 90 seconds. I don't know if you need to leave the the field, but a lot is being made out of something that started four years ago.
- [125:13]
Steve
Yeah, I agree. It's not ruining my World cup experience. I think there's people out there that are like, this is like completely derailing the entire thing, which is not true. I want to ask you because I think, I think you're the perfect guy to ask because there's kind of always, and I tried to explain this to Ryan a little bit. There's kind of this tug of war between the MLS people and the plain Europe people. Right. And I don't subscribe to either of those things. I think we could all live harmoniously, like everyone can. MLS could eat. People can go to Europe and have success. Like, it's fine.
- [125:40]
Taylor Twelman
The rest of the world does.
- [125:42]
Todd McShay
Right?
- [125:42]
Steve
Yeah. So what, what were your first impressions when Pops took the job? Because I think there were a lot of people. It was like this inner. Like in U.S. soccer, in the fandom, there were people fighting of like, hey, like, he's an outsider. He doesn't know. He's never managed internationally before. Sure you manage Chelsea and psg, but do you know about the US soccer culture? And there was another group that was like, hey, we just need a guy who's managed high level, skilled players. And again, it's always somewhere in the middle. But where were you on the potch higher when it first happened? And then like, as this whole process sort of unfolded. Where are you now?
- [126:11]
Taylor Twelman
Yep, great question. First and foremost, I was in the third pot, we needed someone unattached to US Soccer and MLS to take over. And I said that in Qatar. Car we needed that right when the World cup ended. Now, Pochettino wasn't available, but right after the 22 World Cup, I get it, Greg Burhalter got you out of the group, all that. I've always been a believer, the international manager, especially for the US men. Even if you go to the quarterfinals or semifinals, I really mean this. Change it up, you got to have a different message. I wanted someone of Pochettino's caliber that was completely unattached to anyone to come in and take this generation. Eventually they got there. So that's where I was in the camp. Now, I've been very critical of Pochettino. I thought the last international break in March, before the World cup, he completely wasted. And yet I think I was wrong. I think he needed to flip it, to change it, to see what he had. He's never managed at the international level level, but he's been able to manage high profile players. Now, he didn't win Champions League, but he had Neymar, Messi and Mbappe on the same team. So everything else I'll point out, getting.
- [127:23]
Steve
Getting Tottenham to a Champions League final
- [127:25]
Ryan Rosillo
should be worth the trophy.
- [127:26]
Steve
That's. That's insane.
- [127:27]
Taylor Twelman
100%.
- [127:28]
Steve
Let's just point that out.
- [127:28]
Taylor Twelman
Winning Champions League, not getting to the final with Mbappe, Messi and Neymar, fair. He should lose that trophy.
- [127:34]
Steve
All right, so he's at zero. He's still at zero. Yeah.
- [127:37]
Taylor Twelman
I look at Pochettino being fresh. He's got a. He's got gravitas, as we like to say in the media. And I think he walked into that room and he got everyone's attention very quickly. I think deep down he's a club manager. That's what he wants to do. I think deep down he'd love to go back to Tottenham if they invited him and wanted him. But right now he's enjoying the hunger and thirst for the United States to reach their potential, to find the next level. He knows we need that. He knows everyone in this country wants. He knows MLS is dying to get further along, but it threw a lot of people upside down when he saw MLS and said, hang on a minute, this level isn't as bad as what everyone's telling me in Europe. This is off. And Ryan just brought up something very interesting. The pass to Messi in the first goal. Rodrigo DePaul for Inter. Miami made that pass and Everybody told Rodrigo DePaul you will be worse off going to MLS. They just won 3 nil in the opening game of the World Cup. With two players currently in MLS and a player that was in MLS four years, it's just part of growth. I'm not saying MLS is a top five league in the world. I'm not telling you that. But it also can't be the 20th league in the world when the proof's in the pudding. This conversation in US Soccer about MLS versus Europe and eating their own ceruti. It's driving me insane.
- [129:06]
Steve
I hate it too.
- [129:07]
Taylor Twelman
For the record, the Italians won the World Cup. Every player was playing in Syria. In Syria that year was the fifth best league in the world. How'd that work out for everybody? Just stop. It's each individual. It is not black and white.
- [129:24]
Steve
I. I agree with you. And this is. This is a perfect segue into that because there have been some rumors. Pool 627, I think he's in the last year of his contract at AC Milan. Yes, there have been some rumors about him in mls. Like.
- [129:40]
Taylor Twelman
Oh, no, the rumors are real. It's been there for about a year. So what do you think you're sniffing around? Listen, Christian's gonna make it. What I love about Christian is Christian has his own. Own picture. He hasn't told anyone publicly about what his legacy and contract and where he wants to play. He will be in MLS at some point. Absolutely. Do I think it comes after this World Cup? I don't know if they go to the semifinal. Who's to tell me that Manchester United doesn't pay 80 million for him? I don't know any of that. Right. His. His fair market value right now is probably 45 million pounds. €40, whatever the number is. And so it will get interesting. But make no mistake about it, those rumors and MLS sniffing around pulisic and inquiring when he wants to come back, that's been going on for about 12 months.
- [130:31]
Steve
I. I fed Ryan the question about, like, hey, if you can make the pulisic component, NBA guy, who would it be? And I think. I think your SGA thing is interesting, but my thought on that was more of like, what is his level?
- [130:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Level.
- [130:43]
Steve
Right. What. What level of player? Because sga, I think, is just too. If we're. I think you would agree with this. It's just he's. He's too high of a level player.
- [130:49]
Taylor Twelman
No, he's the MVP of the NBA. So, like, I think of body mechanics mannerisms, the way he moves off of picks and all that. It's kind of like Christian, right? So that, that is honestly a terrible comp because right away people go, the NBA, the mvp. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, but you
- [131:06]
Ryan Rosillo
were talking about a movement thing. I completely understood because after watching that, that first match and him in the first half, it's like he's toying with these guys.
- [131:13]
Taylor Twelman
He was so good. Ryan off the ball it. He was unplayable. He wasn't even. He wasn't even on the same field as the other 21 players. It was the best off the ball game I've ever seen from Christian and that tells you that there's that with him. So if everyone else around him, he's got a Fulham Premier League left back next to him and Anthony Robinson who understood where. But Christian was brilliant. That was my comp. Ceruti, tell me your level comp of him.
- [131:46]
Steve
So I wrote down a couple and I think if you want to go real high end. And again, this is just like where they, I think sit in the like overall, like if you're ranking 100 NBA players drop like this is where I think he'd sit. Devin Booker to me is. Is probably a little high, but like really, really good, really good player. Probably not like can make an all NBA team. Pulisic, I mean Pulisic dragged Chelsea to a Champions League spot in Covid. He's been the best player in Italy for a long stretch. Like he could.
- [132:14]
Taylor Twelman
He's never going to be in the top seven to nine players mentioned in the area. He's just right.
- [132:21]
Ryan Rosillo
So I think that's my thought.
- [132:23]
Steve
Yeah. But Ryan does love Devin Booker, so I guess you would love pool. So there you go.
- [132:31]
Taylor Twelman
Right now Ryan Booker's not going in the top 10.
- [132:34]
Ryan Rosillo
No, he's not.
- [132:35]
Steve
No, he's not going to top 10.
- [132:36]
Taylor Twelman
Yeah, yeah, he's going 11th.
- [132:38]
Steve
The other guy I wrote down was Austin Reeves. Not just the white guy, white guy comp thing, but like I think, I think he's somewhere between Devin Booker and Austin Reeves where you're like, like again, there's way more players in soccer than there are in the NBA. So you kind of have to like do the math there or whatever.
- [132:51]
Taylor Twelman
But I've played golf with Austin Reaves two or three times now. Great guy, awesome guy. Basketball level. Christian in the soccer football world, better player than Austin is probably incomparable to the NBA. But I don't mind the comp because I think everyone would be realistic if you listed the top 40 players in the world. Right now, Christian's sniffing around 37 to 40 maybe and probably not. And that doesn't mean he's a terrible player. So people listen to this. Are going to lose their mind lines. Devin Booker, to me, I like the comp of. In between those two. I really do. Now, for the. For the US Team to win, as I said earlier, Ceruti, it's. It's. They need four. They need four guys to dominate their position.
- [133:44]
Steve
I would throw Baligan in there, too.
- [133:46]
Taylor Twelman
What'd you say?
- [133:47]
Steve
I would throw Baligan in there too. I think if he's humming, they are
- [133:50]
Taylor Twelman
going to have a great game. But Baligan will not score two goals if Weston McKinney and Tyler Adams. Adams don't run the midfield the way they did. So fair in that you're talking to a guy that played the position. You thrive when they do great. If Baligan is as good as he was the other night, that means all four of those guys were brilliant. And you're talking about a quarterfinal birth. You really are with this team. If those four players play well at the same time.
- [134:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Sarah Walsh stopped by my house. She was doing some functions. So she was talking up. She played college soccer.
- [134:28]
Taylor Twelman
She's the best as.
- [134:29]
Ryan Rosillo
As we know. And she was explaining the Raina Burhalter saga to me.
- [134:34]
Taylor Twelman
Awesome.
- [134:36]
Ryan Rosillo
I think they should promote that storyline for non soccer fans to get more people interested in the World Cup.
- [134:46]
Sam Bassini
I.
- [134:48]
Ryan Rosillo
You can't say. You can't say you agree. I'm just telling you. Once it was explained to me, I was like, that's the kind of thing that somebody's mom starts watching games because they're like, what happened, Ryan?
- [135:01]
Taylor Twelman
After Qatar, that's all people called me on. I did probably six months of media hits about that. And it just is like, first off, it's completely unfair to some of the party. You know, the. The Burhalter kids.
- [135:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Kids, yeah.
- [135:19]
Taylor Twelman
Mrs. Burhalter. We don't need. They don't. What. What are we doing this for? And so you go down the path. I do know what you're talking about, though. And you raise a question of TMZ in my sport. Can TMZ become a little bit more. It is in Europe. It's massive.
- [135:38]
Ryan Rosillo
As somebody who had to do it all the time, like, there's part of the dramatic attachment that is beyond the results of just playing the game that. That other people start to go like, what the hell happened? And then. Then you're. You're a little bit more interested because you have this absurd backstory, which I didn't even I don't know. I lost. I wasn't paying attention. I didn't even know. And she's explaining it to me. And I went, oh, my God.
- [136:03]
Taylor Twelman
I'm like, how does Geo scores? And Pochettino runs 75 yards to celebrate with him.
- [136:10]
Ryan Rosillo
The back of his foot.
- [136:12]
Taylor Twelman
Oh, what a goal, too. Think about story was six months of like, here's my rebuttal to that, Ryan. I mean, are we talking about orange slices in my sport again? Like, you know what I mean? Like.
- [136:24]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I get it.
- [136:25]
Taylor Twelman
A coach's parents arguing with the coach. My son should be playing. He should. And then you do the backstory, and it's the Real Housewives of New Jersey. And in the blink of an eye, you're like, what just happened?
- [136:36]
Ryan Rosillo
And now they're teammates. And you're right, it's unfair to those guys. So I'm not actually saying, like, I wish it were part of the.
- [136:41]
Taylor Twelman
No, but credit to Sebastian Berhalter and Geo, because I'll tell you firsthand, there's been no animosity there.
- [136:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, that's good.
- [136:50]
Taylor Twelman
Which is. No, but that's. I'm not telling. I'm not speaking for those two, Tony. Well, yeah, if they were in a closed room, would. No, but the way they've both carried themselves. You got a fan for life, for me. Because you've made it professional and you were thrown into a. Sebastian has nothing to do with this. And he's asked for the first year that he's on the national Team. Well, what about your dad and Geo? And you're like, dude, I just want. I'm trying to win my career. I just. Those two have handled themselves in a very positive light, but it is a wild story. Next level. Wild.
- [137:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Wild.
- [137:24]
Taylor Twelman
Because I'm sure Sarah told you the full story. And there you go.
- [137:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Let me. Let me end on this. If Australia drops back into a 4, 4, 2 early, how challenging is that going to be?
- [137:37]
Taylor Twelman
Is Pulisic playing or no?
- [137:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I don't know. I mean, you would know better than I would.
- [137:42]
Taylor Twelman
No, it's a good quote, but you're
- [137:44]
Ryan Rosillo
an early 4, 4, 2.
- [137:45]
Todd McShay
Just.
- [137:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Man, it bums me out.
- [137:47]
Taylor Twelman
Oh, it's actually. And I'll tell you, good on you for doing your homework. It's a 5, 4, 1. With them. They will. They will drop in at least. Least 7. And the best part is, I just gave you three numbers. You have no idea what that stands for. That's the best. Rudy. I said five, four, one. And right now he's like, oh, man. That's so cool.
- [138:08]
Steve
Yeah.
- [138:08]
Ryan Rosillo
You don't think what a 4, 4, 2 is? I can't figure out what a 5, 4, 1 is.
- [138:15]
Steve
You know what? I don't like Taylor. You know what? There's like this weird beef now too, between. Have you followed this at all? Like the Aussies in US now, like, there's beef.
- [138:23]
Taylor Twelman
I don't like that there's beef. So Rudy, they created that on their own. There's not. I can't. I love the media. I'm in the media. I haven't heard a single one of my brethren say, it was Mike. It was Mike Australia that Harry KE is saying. Oh, our golden generation against theirs.
- [138:39]
Steve
Nobody even said that it was Mike Grella on. I think that one of the CBS shows. Who. I like Mike.
- [138:46]
Taylor Twelman
Oh, that was Grella. Yeah, but that's.
- [138:48]
Steve
No, but, like, let's not pretend he's all of us. He doesn't represent all of us. And they're putting that bulletin board material up there being like the American.
- [138:56]
Taylor Twelman
Ryan's point. To Ryan's point. It's a difficult test because the difference between Paraguay and Australia is they've got a guy up front that can flat out run. He can flat out run. So Tim Ream, our captain, if he starts, he's already a liability. In that moment, he'll blow right by him. So when you play against a low block, when you play against a team, you've got to play with a real purpose and try to make the game. Game chaotic while also having control of the game. I know that's an oxymoron, but if you play fast and quick, Australia can't get into the low block. If Pulisic plays, it's a huge upside. If he doesn't, then someone like Tillman, that's going to be a huge factor. I think Ricardo Pepe could be an also factor because you can then flip it, play two center forwards, play Baligan and all that, knowing that you got five defenders. The US are well equipped to deal with it, but it becomes a difficulty
- [139:51]
Ryan Rosillo
test if the Aussie start burning Paul Thoreau books in the tailgate. Then we know we have some issues. All right. You guys are the best. Enjoy. Well, I'm going to see Ceruti, like every single day, but it was great to see Taylor again.
- [140:05]
Taylor Twelman
Yeah, I'll see you in 2030.
- [140:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Sounds good. Sounds good.
- [140:10]
Taylor Twelman
Call my manager. We'll set it up.
- [140:11]
Steve
Thanks, dt.
- [140:12]
Ryan Rosillo
See you, boys. That's Taylor Twelman MLS coverage on Apple tv.
- [140:19]
Stella Blue Coffee Ad
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- [141:08]
Ryan Rosillo
You want details?
- [141:09]
Kyle
Fine.
- [141:10]
Taylor Twelman
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.
- [141:13]
Ryan Rosillo
What's up?
- [141:15]
Kevin O'Connor
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [141:17]
Taylor Twelman
I have every toy you can possibly imagine, and best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.
- [141:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Our email address lifeadvicermail.com where you can watch the full episodes of this segment on Netflix. We've got Kyle, we've got Steve. It's good to see everybody. Let's just get right to the email. All right. Want to follow up on the guy that was asking about ghosting a communist
- [141:47]
Steve
as you do?
- [141:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Thanks for reading. Made it on the pod. I wrote the above about the communists while hungover and dejected from Game four. So a Spurs fan. So here he goes. Update. All right, we already got that. I think Kettlebell's in there. We're good. Have an update on the emergent communist quandary.
- [142:12]
Todd McShay
Caps.
- [142:13]
Ryan Rosillo
We did not ghost him for dinner, but we did have to ditch him for after dinner, drinks and barbecue the next morning. Sidebar we went to Reese Bros. And it was life changing. The dinner went mostly well, but the communists could not stop interrogating another buddy over his local business ventures. A key detail that I left out. The communist is a male nurse. Oh, I love nurses. I know what you're trying to do.
- [142:34]
Kyle
I'm not going to bite.
- [142:35]
Steve
Don't we all?
- [142:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Greg rn. That's two strikes against him for having the grace to ask detailed questions on entrepreneurship. As this nascent struggle session dragged on, I knew I had to act. I went to the bathroom, started a separate group chat, and laid out my plan at the end of dinner, I would feign that I was too tired to go out after dinner and told my non communist friends which bar we would meet at later. The next morning. We met at the barbecue spot before it opened at 11, aiming to finish lunch by noon. My communist friend texted me in the group chat multiple times that morning, but I gave the excuse that I'd slept in. I then hung out with him solo from around 1:30 to 4:30. We were engaged in some political debates before the game. To say I walked him down like Brunson did to my poor spurs in crunch time is an understatement. Like Ryan, I'm an ardent anti communist, but will spare you all my full thoughts. This plan went off without a hitch. My communist friend is none the wiser and I doubt he listens because he stated to me that both podcasts and video games are capitalist drek. This guy's. No, he didn't. Somehow, this does not apply to movies. He's 10 out of 10 excited for the new Nolan Odyssey movie. Better yet, I have no guilt. Communists are liars and liars should expect to be lied to. Wow. I'm expecting some communists to reach out. It was a bit devious of me to manage the situation this way, but it worked. No regrets. Let me know if you feel differently.
- [144:03]
Kyle
I think he kind of likes this. He's talking about it begrudgingly, but I think he likes hatching these plans and all that stuff.
- [144:08]
Ryan Rosillo
It's three hours with him.
- [144:10]
Kyle
Yeah, it's kind of an exciting thing. I don't know.
- [144:11]
Steve
There's also kind of nothing better than like when you're arguing with someone who just doesn't is just dumb and you just know that they have no arguments and that like you're just gonna murder them in whatever debate you're gonna have. There is some enjoyment in that. So I feel like he's kind of reveling in the like. Okay, I get like. You know, it would be really funny if you just started calling him comrade and just like really like, like really rolled into it and we're just like, all right, fine, we're gonna do this thing. But I actually think, yeah, you handled this pretty well. Not bad.
- [144:38]
Ryan Rosillo
I'll say this though, my communist friend, he's one of the smartest of the group. So there's actually. I would say there's a lot of guys that are pretty well read.
- [144:47]
Steve
What is he smart about? I'm going like, wait, he just. He's well read. Like he just.
- [144:53]
Kyle
A lot of facts.
- [144:53]
Ryan Rosillo
I know who the dumb guy are in my group harder than the smart ones are.
- [144:57]
Steve
Okay, no, and that's a good point. Yeah. So he's a well rounded smart guy. Because usually, like, yeah, the communist guy, he knows everything about, like, all the good things that communism could bring. But then it's like, hey, did you ever hear of, like, you know, Stalin and Lennon? Not great, not awesome.
- [145:09]
Ryan Rosillo
I think there was once a presentation that, like, no one should make over this amount of money. And it was a very low number. Oh, really? And guys were just like, what, are you out of your mind? Because no one needs more than this.
- [145:21]
Kyle
You could buy all the rights you need for that.
- [145:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Right, right. But then that's kind of like the point. It's like, so what do you want the. To the owners to make even more? Like, I don't understand that. It's like when people get mad about an NBA contract and be like, this is ridiculous. Something needs to be done. And be like, what? What needs to be done? The Kronkes need more money. They're killing it. They're killing it.
- [145:43]
Steve
It's tougher.
- [145:44]
Ryan Rosillo
They're just on a heater.
- [145:45]
Steve
Yeah.
- [145:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Somebody was invited to the Kronky Suite for the World Cup. But we're not going to share that story.
- [145:51]
Steve
I heard the story, but.
- [145:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, so Rudy heard the story. It was like, we can't even tell it. Can't even tell it. All right, let's get into this. You know, we can't tell it. And it has nothing to do with, like, anyone getting in it. No. No one has done anything wrong. There's just. There'd be feelings that we have to account for. Yeah, yeah. I've already said too much. God, I want to tell that story. I'm sorry.
- [146:21]
Kyle
You're not going to tell me later? Just fucking move on because I feel way better.
- [146:25]
Steve
This sucks. Yeah, but this doesn't help the audience. There's like, cool.
- [146:27]
Ryan Rosillo
It sucks, but it's a floating. It's like the epitome. They're like, hey, did Priscilla go to the World cup? Because it's 25 minutes from his house. Like, you got 30 minutes. Let me tell you what happened.
- [146:40]
Steve
Here's the thing. It's another game next Thursday.
- [146:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Next Thursday at Sofi.
- [146:45]
Steve
Next Thursday at Sofi, who's playing the US and turkey.
- [146:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, wow.
- [146:49]
Kyle
It sounds like he really wants to go.
- [146:51]
Steve
Yeah, it could be a big one.
- [146:54]
Ryan Rosillo
I've always hated turkey.
- [146:56]
Steve
Turkey, Come on.
- [147:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Sorry.
- [147:02]
Steve
Tongue in cheek. I'm not that guy.
- [147:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Trust me. I don't think anyone knows how to pronounce Qatar oh yeah.
- [147:11]
Steve
Iraq, Iran. Like, come on.
- [147:14]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know. Yeah, in the 90s you said Iraq.
- [147:18]
Kyle
I went to summer camp.
- [147:18]
Steve
Now you're stupid if you say that.
- [147:19]
Kyle
I think went to summer camp with a kid from Qatar. He was like the star of the show. It was like a white blonde kid, but from Qatar. And it was just like, dude, we're just like, save something for the rest of us, dude.
- [147:30]
Ryan Rosillo
We're like, seriously?
- [147:32]
Kyle
People were like, where is it? We weren't even sure if it was a real place back.
- [147:36]
Ryan Rosillo
It's like an actor from Liverpool trying out for the Avengers. Every other guy just goes, I'm out of here. Make America great again. That's not even what I'm talking about. Can we have our roles back once you guys invent some superheroes? All right. Dad is addicted to only fans 2663. But I tell people I'm 5 11. No you don't. 195 bench. 245 squat. 315 two times. Thank you. Keep us posted on that. We're probably never going to become friends, but love to hear about your journey. I'll make this really quick. After college I moved back to my parents house. Wasn't really the plan, but here I am.
- [148:22]
Kyle
Hey, man.
- [148:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Did the same thing. And I didn't wake up any day thinking, hey, this is the plan, man. Many evenings involve my dad, mom and myself watching television in the living room. God, there should be a documentary on people that have to move home. Especially if you're a guy that was in the wild for almost 10 years. And then it's just like I remember just being back in that orbit and then being on the couch with my parents watching tv. And then my mother would yell at my father and I'd be like, do you do this every night? Is this what you guys do? And my father just looked at me with the most defeated look in his face ever. He just was like, yeah, it's kind of what we do. I was like, so you just make a comment and then everyone, my sisters and my mom just yell at you the whole time. He's like, yeah, pretty much
- [149:09]
Steve
single Priscilla up here.
- [149:10]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah. Can't wait to get married. Can't wait to do these exact same thing. All right, so in the past year, especially the last three to six months, my dad's gotten quite, quite. There might be some editing on the fly here. As I'm trying to read this, he's gotten conspicuous looking into his phone screen angled aggressively away from the rest of the room. He took a picture of his dad on his phone, which is, by the way, plugged in. While he's looking at Only fans. And it is a hard angle away from the rest of the viewing party.
- [149:47]
Steve
Only fans with your family in the family room on the couch.
- [149:50]
Kyle
Is a.
- [149:51]
Steve
Is a.
- [149:51]
Kyle
That's a choice with dad with, like, old dad not giving a fuck type like feelings.
- [149:56]
Ryan Rosillo
That's it.
- [149:57]
Kyle
It's quite a combo.
- [149:58]
Steve
Okay.
- [149:59]
Ryan Rosillo
I'll also add the phone being plugged in is incredible and he has a blanket over him. Yeah. So.
- [150:09]
Kyle
Well, FDR style. Like one that's meant to go or just laugh only.
- [150:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow, Kyle, Was that good? That was so good. I would say this is not an FDR thing.
- [150:22]
Kyle
Okay. It's not meant for that.
- [150:24]
Ryan Rosillo
I think he's just as cozy.
- [150:25]
Kyle
Okay.
- [150:25]
Ryan Rosillo
But anyway, be a little too cozy. All right. So the screen is angled aggressively away from the rest of the room for hours. It's really obvious what he's looking at. Sometimes the sound is on louder than he expects. Sometimes he'll show you something on his phone in his browser suggesting he open Only fans. My parents are older, but together 30 plus years. I'm not sure how much my mom is aware of it or how much she just ignores it. He's not the most adept at using social media and could frequently be caught following rather sultry Instagram accounts or accidentally liking things which he's completely unaware of. I feel like I should say something to him because I find it a bit disturbing. I'm afraid. What might happen if he gets caught? Could it blow up their marriage? There have been plenty of instances of people their age finding illicit text messages on their partner's phones leading to. Great. Should I confront him? Should I tell her? Should I pull into option three and off myself instead? Love the pod. Ms. Marathon Man. Mike, Oregon. We do too.
- [151:22]
Kyle
I got a quick one that I just popped into my head. Father's Day is Sunday, if anyone's forgetting. Taking my dad to see Daniel Tosh, one of his favorite guys. But maybe.
- [151:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Please. We want a full report on that.
- [151:36]
Kyle
Yeah, go to Portchester. Never been. I'll report back, but here's the way.
- [151:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Sold out.
- [151:42]
Kyle
I think it was just closer.
- [151:45]
Steve
Good pt.
- [151:46]
Kyle
I told my DD too, so he can just drink those.
- [151:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Are you nice.
- [151:50]
Kyle
Heard it's a rough shuttle neighborhood.
- [151:52]
Steve
Well, it's just a vessel. I'm going to shouts out to the usga. Hooking us up. I got tickets to the US Open.
- [151:59]
Kyle
Yeah, you do.
- [152:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, well, you're not going to Bridgeport.
- [152:03]
Steve
I am going to Bridgeport?
- [152:04]
Kyle
You're leaving from Bridgeport?
- [152:06]
Taylor Twelman
Okay.
- [152:06]
Steve
I am going to Bridgeport. Yep.
- [152:09]
Ryan Rosillo
That's like saying I'm going to Fall river to catch a ferry to Nantucket, you know?
- [152:14]
Steve
Okay. First off, I've probably been to Bridgeport more than you guys have, too. Bridgeport. I've never been Bridgeport all the time. It's fine. There's nothing wrong. I mean, I want to hang out there for Lumpy.
- [152:22]
Ryan Rosillo
I met a great stat man.
- [152:23]
Todd McShay
I met us.
- [152:24]
Kyle
I met a guy from Bridgeport who moved to upstate, and he talked about it like it was Fallujah. Is there, like. Is there just a pocket? But I mean, maybe this guy just wanted to be like, it's not great. It doesn't sound tough. So he just had to overcompensate.
- [152:39]
Ryan Rosillo
But he was like, people, vacation. People from Bridgeport vacation in Waterbury.
- [152:43]
Steve
That's it. That's. Yeah. There wasn't. There's a family guy skit about Bridgeport, too, I believe. Right? I'm pretty sure there is. So. No, it's not great. But. Yeah, taking the ferry, but they got a great concert ready there, so don't knock Bridgeport.
- [152:57]
Stella Blue Coffee Ad
All right.
- [152:58]
Steve
Anyway.
- [152:59]
Kyle
Okay.
- [152:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Father's Day.
- [153:00]
Kyle
Father's Day side gift. Maybe get him golf balls or whatever you get him. Anyway, hand him a privacy screen, and that's off to the side. This isn't in front of the family. You hand him the privacy screen, you're just like. If there's anything you want to say in that moment, maybe you're definitely not
- [153:15]
Todd McShay
going to get him to change his
- [153:16]
Kyle
ways, but you could. Like, here, I'm just pat dad on the back. I'm going to help you out here. Just so you know. I know. Or what? You know, maybe keep it short and sweet. Maybe don't ruin Father's Day. But definitely a privacy screen. Sounds like.
- [153:26]
Steve
What would.
- [153:26]
Kyle
Would go miles in this. If you're worried about, like, what's the fallout if he's caught? Maybe you can give him a quick little, like, crash course in deleting browser history. I don't know, like, you want to help him out. You're not going to change him. He's old and he's been married for 35 years. And this is maybe what's getting him through. I don't know, but I think. I think a little wink and a nod to the side would maybe.
- [153:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Maybe do something here.
- [153:48]
Kyle
Just popped him.
- [153:49]
Steve
I would avoid this like the plague. I think the screen protector thing and maybe a pair of headphones does make sense, but I would always just like to play it. There's no way I'm dipping my toe into any of this. I don't want anything to do with this.
- [154:01]
Kyle
It's definitely uncomfortable.
- [154:03]
Steve
Like, why are you hanging out? Like first off, if you live at home too, why are you hanging out in the living room? Go to your room, get a tv. I would never get out of there. There's no way I would be hanging out in this living room. Especially while this stuff is going on too. Like I'm just. I'm somewhere else.
- [154:20]
Ryan Rosillo
That's a fair point.
- [154:20]
Kyle
These are moments you can't get back.
- [154:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Steve, though, I'm good. I think what's happening here is it's a window into everybody's relationship with their father. And I haven't even gone yet. So Kyle's like salt of the earth. Like, dad, if you're going to watch porn in the living room with everyone, here's some earbuds and a privacy screen. Happy Father's Day. I love you also.
- [154:40]
Kyle
You look guilty as fuck in that chair, dude. Come on, you got to work on your. Gotta work on your stuff.
- [154:45]
Todd McShay
Dance.
- [154:49]
Ryan Rosillo
I think your dad deserves and I think the situation demands a heads up. An offering of like. I don't think you say anything. I don't know what the relationship. Are you close to your mom, you close to your dad, that kind of thing. So I don't know that's a case by case basis. But I think generally like this is early if you're 26. They've been married 30 years, so he's in his 50s. I mean this is like, like this is 70 plus behavior, man.
- [155:17]
Kyle
Yeah, there's a lot of life left. I mean we got to get a hold of this.
- [155:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. So I think a heads up to him to be like, hey, I got to talk to you about the phone in the living room thing. And then when you hand it to us, like I know you're on only fans. I'm not judging. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. Maybe.
- [155:33]
Kyle
Dude, if mom ever finds out a little bit. If mom ever finds out. This isn't free.
- [155:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Holy.
- [155:39]
Steve
Yeah. Yeah. Didn't our guy Van.
- [155:44]
Ryan Rosillo
What's that?
- [155:44]
Steve
Didn't our guy Van Lathan have a story about this where like somebody there was like just somebody yelled out once, hey, it stops now. Because they didn't know who was buying stuff.
- [155:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that was like. Yeah, it was.
- [155:54]
Kyle
The cable box was getting.
- [155:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, they were ordering movies.
- [155:58]
Todd McShay
It stops now.
- [156:00]
Ryan Rosillo
It stops now. What a speech. That's great. I mean it just. Efficiency of a father at times because that Scares the shit out of you. Just be like, hey, it stops now.
- [156:13]
Steve
That's it.
- [156:14]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't think you can do that as the son, especially at 26, to your dad. Yeah. You just not. You don't have enough reps in. That would be so good. I think you'd be doing him a huge favor and slightly derailing the momentum of where this could go by saying, hey, we got to talk about something. And I know you don't want to do that. I know you don't want to talk to him about it, but I think it might be more of like a guy code thing of like, I gotta help you here.
- [156:48]
Kyle
That's the. Not to judge.
- [156:50]
Steve
You changed my mind. You changed my mind. I think it's fair to be, like, be super vague about it and just say, hey, I know what's going on. You gotta clean it up. Don't even say anything about it. Don't. Don't reference that. Just, hey, hey, you gotta clean it up. We hear it sometimes. We see it. The blanket thing. Clean it up. And I think. I think. I think that's all you need to say.
- [157:11]
Ryan Rosillo
And you know, look, I don't know how you guys are, but, like, when it happens and some of you listening are too young and some of you are through that age, you know exactly what I'm talking about. But it's gonna suck for parents when their child is right.
- [157:27]
Steve
Oh, yeah.
- [157:28]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, and if you're in your 20s trying to fight back and you're right, they're probably still going to tell you you're wrong. Or depending how argumentative your parents may or may not be, you've got to, like, fight through, like, whatever it was. Like, you, you know, you're not even paying any rent or something like that. It's like, hey, you're watching porn in a living room next to your wife. And we all know weirdo like, put your fucking phone away, dad. And then there's that shift of when you know you're right as the child, and maybe you're old enough and the parent is old enough to understand that you're right. So 26, kind of. That's in that dangerous zone of he just may despise the idea that he even has to listen to you. All right, let's do one more quick one here.
- [158:16]
Steve
All right.
- [158:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Neighbor's dad hitting on my wife. 29 years old. 5 11. 160. Where can it get to? 170. 70. Love hearing that. Max bench. 250. Yes. I threw in the two and a half to get there. Not I threw. I bought one and a halfs during COVID Used to use to weigh 150 pounds until Ryan said you can't be weak. Oh, wait, you can be weak or you can be strong. Why would you choose to be weak? Honestly, I don't know that I'll ever do anything better than that. So thanks for the motivation. Player Comp. Apex. Michael Jordan. Just kidding. Probably Genoa. All right, you guys read an email of mine about two years ago. Oh, it was my wife and I deciding between staying in Hawaii or moving to the mainland where our families live with our little kids. It was good to stay in Hawaii, but my wife was more motivated to move back. Kyle's one liner made me come to grips with it when he said it's not will they, won't they? It's when they. End quote Kyle. I don't remember that at all.
- [159:14]
Steve
I do vacate.
- [159:15]
Ryan Rosillo
I do remember this.
- [159:15]
Steve
Yeah, yeah.
- [159:19]
Ryan Rosillo
We live somewhere else now. I miss Hawaii, but it's awesome here too. All right, he lives in a good spot. I humbly return to the council facing a new challenge. We live in a complex with a great park for the kids. It's basically our front yard. It's the only daily gathering place for the kids and parents. As I'm at work, my wife is there a couple times a day with the kids. Before we moved in, met this couple in their mid-50s, slightly older kids than ours. When we toured the complex, they were super welcoming and told us how wonderful the place was. They weren't wrong. Fast forward a year and this dad spends quite a bit of time in the park with his kid while my wife is there. All the parents usually sit together and talk in the late afternoons, but midday sometimes it's just my wife and this guy. If he's there first and she arrives, she'll sit on her own and he'll relocate to come sit near her and carry on a conversation for an hour or more until my wife leaves. She's tried to cut conversation, keep it brief, take phone calls, walk around to break up the time. At this point you're probably thinking he's just a nice chatty guy. Fair. Until my wife told me. This exchange was when she arrived there yesterday. As he approached her, he said, quote, everything okay? You don't look like your bright smiley self today. She assured me. She assured him she was fine and continued on. He pressed a little during the time at the park to see if anything was wrong. That's when I feel like it crossed some sort of Social interaction line. My wife is very beautiful and this guy's average at best and 20 years older. I get it's fun to talk to the cute younger mom, but there's a line of duration and depth of conversation you should stay clear of. My wife isn't going to stop going to the park and neither is this guy. There's zero worries of my wife allowing this progress. It's more just navigating the interactions moving forward as he's genuinely nice and well liked in the community. I'm a present dad at the park when I'm home. What's the move? And then he sent us a family photo. Great looking kids, good group here. This screen married guys.
- [161:06]
Kyle
This screwed me up because it said neighbor's dad hitting on my wife. This guy isn't old enough to be in the harmless category. It sounds like I was like, if we're talking 70 something, you're like crazy old man. Whatever. His days are behind him. He's just putting up shots.
- [161:20]
Ryan Rosillo
He knows they're not gonna land.
- [161:21]
Kyle
But this guy's not old enough to be in that safety zone. So I don't know. I'll see what Steve has to say about that.
- [161:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Should I introduce him to this other guy's dad? Exactly.
- [161:33]
Steve
I've told this story before, but my wife deals, she works in real estate, does a lot of different things with investors, yada yada. And there have been some weird texts exchanged from just odd guys with just a weird selfie to them. You're like, man, you're way too old to be sending real selfies, especially someone who's married. I thought it was hilarious just because I'm not threatened by it at all. And it's funny and it's sort of harmless and she thought it was kind of funny too. But this guy definitely like asking you like, what's up? And like, you know, if you, if you're.
- [162:03]
Ryan Rosillo
What's wrong?
- [162:03]
Steve
Bubbly self like that.
- [162:04]
Kyle
What did he do?
- [162:05]
Steve
You're prodding in a weird way.
- [162:07]
Ryan Rosillo
So my husband's too young. I realized it to them, you know, yeah, fuck off.
- [162:11]
Steve
Like, yeah, my, my husband's too hot. I, I like, can you, Are you able to go to the park too during these interactions? Like, can you kind of alpha him at the park? Can you guys, like, maybe you'll get a little PDA at the park. I don't know, like do something a little bit to throw bit little him a off the set.
- [162:27]
Kyle
Just one, one powerful display and you think that's it.
- [162:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Hardcore makeout session. And you look at them. What's up, Rudy? I don't think it's a terrible idea, but this guy, who knows, next time it's just them, he's like, you two are really going at it the other day. Things are good, huh? You know, interested.
- [162:43]
Steve
Interested in a third? Nah, dude, we're good.
- [162:50]
Ryan Rosillo
I just ordered this shirt online. Did you notice? Yeah, I mean it, it's annoying. It's annoying. But like, yeah, it's going to have to like to derail this. It's probably going to have to have some moment that's uncomfortable and you can choose from a pallet of whatever any of those are. She probably doesn't want to do it because then it feels like, you know, then he's going around being like, man, she's uptight. Like totally crossed the line. Like I was just asking her how she was doing, but it just sucks too. It's probably wasn't over enough.
- [163:17]
Kyle
It wasn't overt enough to like, he could totally be like, I don't know what the big deal is. Is.
- [163:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you also like, the other thing I've learned about guys is they get a little bit older and I would say around my age, you know, some that are married, some that aren't. I can like tell who in my friend group who, when they go home, no one listens to them. So then, so sad. Right? Like children don't want to listen to them, wife doesn't want to listen to them. And so then it's like open mind mic when we run into the guys that fall into this category because they're just like, ah, finally an audience.
- [163:56]
Steve
Your wife's not really giving them the time of day, so hopefully that, I
- [163:58]
Ryan Rosillo
don't know, open mic guys love that. Yeah, like what do I have five? No, it's unlimited. Go as long as you want.
- [164:04]
Steve
Great. No feedback. Okay.
- [164:07]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know if I should say this, but I'm going to. I don't know.
- [164:16]
Kyle
That's two. Two bait and switches on this.
- [164:19]
Ryan Rosillo
I think the guy's better looking than his wife. There you go. Oh, yeah, well, that, oh, that's.
- [164:24]
Kyle
There you go. Carry that into the park. Good for you.
- [164:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Confidence boost for you. Not a negative. Not a negative. But like, you know, how rarely is it, oh, she's talking about you the way she. You're talking about her. This is a good looking guy. We'll close there.
- [164:37]
Steve
Hell yeah.
- [164:38]
Ryan Rosillo
All right. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks, Steve. He's probably going to think that's an insult.
- [164:42]
Steve
Sorry.
- [164:42]
Ryan Rosillo
At least I'm not hitting on her That'll do it for the show today. Ryan Rosilla Show Barstool sports.
- [165:07]
Kevin O'Connor
Sam.