← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
The Arguments For/Against Jalen Hurts, Plus Celtics Guard Derrick White, Final Four Matchups, and NBA Draft Prospects W/ Sam Vecenie
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Hey Priscilla listeners. You can find every episode on Apple Podcast and Spotify Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Tastytrade has a suite of probability tools so you can make smarter picks for your portfolio. Though it can't help you fill out your NCAA bracket, you can trade stocks, options, futures and more all in one platform. Tastytrade offers low commissions including zero commission on stocks so you can keep more of what you earn. The platform is packed with trading features like backtesting, which lets you simulate your trading strategies using 10 plus years of data so you can test your ideas about potential Cinderella stocks. Active traders can use features like Ladder Trading mode, one click Trading and smart order Tracking to manage their positions during crunch time. If you want to learn to trade or discover new strategies, tastytrade has dozens of educational courses you can access for free with your account. Get Live stellar support from tastytrade's Deep Bench of Experience Trade Desk reps during trading hours. Visit tastytrade.com barstool today. Tastytrade Inc. Is a registered broker, dealer and a member of finra, NFA and sipc. The Ryan Ro show is presented by DraftKings. We got Derek White of the Boston Celtics hanging out with us. We'll talk about reincorporating Tatum and his career origins. That's a really fun conversation. Sam Vicini is back. We're breaking down the final four, taking a look at the 26 draft class and how it's been impacted by the tournament. And a annual NFL question based on an expose is Jalen hurts? Good life advice follows. Basketball is a game of runs and it moves fast. That's why DraftKings sportsbook is built for live betting. From tip off to the final buzzer, live betting lets you react when momentum shifts. You can adjust in real time, possession by possession, play by play with props, sides and next play markets as the action unfolds. 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For additional terms or responsible gaming resources, see sportsbook.draftkings do promos limited time offer There was an in depth Jalen Hurts manifesto on ESPN just a couple days ago. Tim McManus Jeremy Fowler, great job on this. Tons of sources and we are left with what is not a new question. It is, is Jalen Hurts Good. I've struggled with it, all right, because on one side of it you have somebody that finished second in the MVP voting went to a Super bowl that was essentially like a coin toss game. Then in 23 they're 10 and 1. And I think those of us are kind of like, yeah, they're 10 and 1, but is there something wrong with this team? After back to back wins against Kansas City and then against Buffalo and something was wrong with that team. They finished one of one and five to close a regular season, lost in the first round of Tampa Bay, got smoked in the playoffs. Then 24 they win the Super Bowl, Hertz wins the super bowl mvp, which is generally going to go to the quarterback anyway. And then you go, all right, you know, silencing the doubters. This guy's been two of the last three Super Bowls, like, what more do you want from this guy? And then 25 happens and they're 8 and 2. But we're kind of doing the same thing that we did in 23, where it's like, is something wrong with this team? And again, there was something wrong with them. They finished 11 and 6 and they lost in the first round at home again to San Francisco. So it was kind of like 23 all over again. So I'll say this, I don't think that he's great, but that middle low to kind of middle high. When we talk about quarterbacks in the NFL, it's a struggle. And it's usually what we think or where we'd rank these players is extremely dependent on whether you're winning or losing. Because Hertz is like the perfect example of I know they're winning a ton of games, but what if I don't think he's that great? Like, well, I don't know that I'm allowed to say that the middle is just Hard. I think we know who the great ones are and we think we generally know who the QB's are that aren't any good and maybe they're just young and they don't have a great year. So that's a different category into itself. But if we look at some of the stats, we could do this all the time because, like, there's some really good stats there because he limits the turnovers. The deep ball stuff is terrific and again, the team has won. But if you wanted to do like a stat profile on quarterbacks from the past, like, let's just do a blind one right now. In 2015, this QB was 13 in completion percentage. He was third overall in QBR, which is usually a pretty good number. Telling the truth, he was tied for the lowest number of interceptions for any quarterback with over 380 attempts on the season. Only seven picks. That quarterback was Andy Dalton. I could do this all day with Ryan Tannehill. Numbers. So sometimes there's numbers for quarterbacks and you go, what? What's going on? Like, those are kind of great numbers. And if I sort these over a three year period, it looks like this is one of the steadiest guys. And yet you're going, I don't know. I don't know if this guy's really that great. So Hertz is coming off the worst year of his last four. That's not really debatable. If you were pro Hertz, you would say he's now entering a fifth straight season with a fifth different offensive coordinator. Sean Manion, who I kind of liked at Oregon State, I'm not going to lie to you. And Sean Manion, who after a couple years of Jeff Fisher sprinkling a fossil for a few games 17, gets linked up with McVeigh coaching with the packers the last couple of years. So you could say from the coaching level, he's not as experienced as some other offensive coordinators, but he kind of fits the mold of what all these teams are looking for. But if he's running a McVeigh style, it's not necessarily something that you think Hertz would be comfortable with. But again, if you're pro hurts, you're like, all right, five different OCs. Now if you're anti Hertz, you could say, hey, five different OCs. It's kind of like the Jay Cutler thing. You're like, well, look how many different systems he's had to learn. It's like, well, why are they changing the coordinator all the time? Because they're trying to figure something out. Now, again, to add another layer of fairness to this, two of the coordinators are gone from Philadelphia over the last five years because two of those guys became head coaches. In the NFL, if you don't like Hurts, you go. It is the most expensive offense in the NFL. That's kind of where I land. I don't like as harsh, right? And I'm going to go back to some of the QB tier outrage that we had in previous seasons as it pertains to Hurts, but I'll say it. I think there's 15 quarterbacks that win a Super bowl with this Eagles team. That's how stacked they are. That's how talented this group is. And when the QB tears came out in 23, he was sixth and people were mad he was that low. That was coming off the super bowl loss, which again, wasn't his fault. Then he wins a Super bowl coming off at 24. Going into this year, Hurts was ninth in the QB tiers. So he's around longer, reached a greater level of success. But the people that do this for a living, front office members, head coaches, assistant coaches, personnel people, they moved him from sixth after his first super bowl to ninth after he won it and won mvp. So, like, what am I supposed to do with that? Because we're not supposed to do that. But again, these are the people who do it every day, live it, breathe it, every single day. And they're like, yeah, maybe he's ninth or 10th again. When he was ranked sixth, people were mad that it was too low. A couple quotes from this piece that I thought were interesting. There was a play where they basically were trying to figure out what they wanted to run. They were on the sideline. So Petullo, the former offensive coordinators there was Sirianni Hertz is there, I guess Tanner McKee's in the mix as well.
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And
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they had just run four verts, which is four vertical routes, right? But the previous time that the Niners had stopped it, Dallas Goddard, the tight end, it was an incompletion. So they come out and they run it again. And the team source says, quote, I was like, oh, my God, this is not happening. We can't run four verts. Now look, does it seem a little specific to get into one quote, one play call? And what are you supposed to do if you're the coaches go, no, we want you to run something you're not comfortable with. Normally, the first time, whenever we hear that NFL mic'd up stuff is it's a big play. A quarterback comes over oc head coach, whatever. And they're like, what do you like? What do you want to run? Well, we know that Hertz loves the deep shots because he doesn't want to throw it in the middle of the field. I'll have some numbers that I'll share with you a little bit. There was another quote that I thought was perhaps a little bit more damning and that was added a separate team source quote. You never know what play is coming out of the huddle, end quote, when Hertz is leading it. And in the past he's been known to signal a route that hasn't been installed by the coaches. Now the greater message of this piece is like, here we are off this 25 season, going into 26. And it's like, who is this guy? Because this is the part that I think is kind of unfair, right? When he's winning, he is stoic, he's focused, he's unemotional, he's the epitome of professionalism. Right? When they're not living up to the standards because it's not like they're going to 5 and 12 here. But when it's not working the way it didn't work this year, again, he could be the exact same guy. But the personality and getting quotes like this, which is kind of interesting in itself, but it's like, oh, he's disconnected, he's arrogant. You know, he's feeling himself. After he won the super bowl, everything we may not have liked about his closed off personality is amplified now because he's really feeling himself. I have no idea. Not around him, never met him. And I do think a lot of times the results can completely change the perception of an athlete. When the athlete's like, I'm literally the exact same guy and the things that you liked about me in the past, now you're going to hold against me. So there's a lot of back and forth and there's some people sticking up for hurts, being like, look, the guy comes in, he does his work, he's super professional. He's a closed off guy, tight circle. And that's the same thing that he's been going all the way back to Alabama. So, like, what do you expect here? But there's some pretty damning evidence now that it feels like the league has figured Hertz out. The deep shots again are great. He's comfortable with those. When there's completions against man coverage, not zone, because he's facing more and more zone. And it seems like, you know, on the more explosive plays, it's just not going to happen against zone. I think over 52% of the snaps that they had on offense they face zone coverage, which is pretty high for him and his career. And you know, it could be as simple as the league's figured out that this is a quarterback that doesn't want to play under center, which he may be challenged to do. And everybody's saying the right things right now, like, oh, he wants to be coached. Like if you're pro hurts, you're like, oh no, he's always wanted to do this. It's like, well, it took a little while and we'll see how it goes at 26 because a lot of times as an athlete you're just more. You're more likely to just go back to whatever you're more comfortable with. The job is hard enough really. You want me to do all these other things. But when you never want to turn your back to the defense because you want to play out a shotgun and have everything in front of you so you're looking at coverage the entire time instead of relying on play action, which we know can really juice up some quarterbacks production because it just becomes, especially later in the game when guys are tired and they're jumping stuff and it opens up other passing lanes. But if Hertz doesn't like turning his back because it disconnects him from the coverage reads, then that's probably a big problem. Six years into your career. There's a number from Nate Tice who's joined us on the pod and essentially what he was doing was he was breaking down where Hertz is on throws that are intermediate to deeper in between the numbers. So if you're talking air yards traveled from the line of scrimmage 10 to 22 yards in between the numbers. Among 50 qualifying quarterbacks on these throws since 2022, Hertz is ranked 59th in passer rating out of 50 quarterbacks that qualified for it. We could look up touchdown interception ratios. We can look up the fact that when he's running it puts a ton of stress on the defense. I don't know if he didn't want to run as much this year because the numbers dropped off a cliff because either he wanted to stay healthy or the team play calling one to keep him healthy, or an offensive line where a team that was second in rushing yards per game in 24 dropped all the way to 20. Excuse me, dropped all the way to 18th in 2025. You know, the online injuries were a real part of this. But if he is less of a threat to run, who does not want to throw it into the middle of field on a bunch of routes that just seem like they're not part of the plan. For the Eagles, the timing of this is clearly because it's not after a Super bowl, but that number is really hard to ignore. And I think this game is so hard at the position. But when the opponent knows at this point after this many seasons, like, hey, he doesn't want to make any of these throws, that's the problem that Philly's facing. It's great that Lori, the owner, there's a quote in there from him during the owner's meetings. Not that long ago, it couldn't been more praising of who Hertz is because you're talking about somebody in a really tough city in Philadelphia who's provided them sustained success here in a way that is kind of historic. And that's always the problem with Hertz, is that you sit there and you watch him and they may win a game and they're probably going to have a great record. And yet if you do this job, you're like, yeah, but I don't want to say he's awesome when I don't think that he is. And now all of this is coming to a head as they get ready for 26. This episode is brought to you by Body Armor Flash IV, the official rapid rehydration drink of March Madness. Flash IV is packed with electrolytes delivering faster, longer lasting hydration without any artificial dyes, flavors or sweeteners. Whether you're training, traveling, or just feeling the heat, I gotta tell you, I might be back on the stuff. And that is a flavored hydration drink hitting in the morning a little bit. Just trying to get those organs going. Starting those days, you know, they're getting earlier, later in life, and I'm telling you, I wasn't in tune. They sent over a crate of it and I go, I think I like watermelon. Look at me, look at me. Growing up. When it comes to hydration, work hard and hydrate hard with Body Armor Flash iv, the official rapid rehydration drink of March Madness. Grab it at 7:11. Derek White of the Bosses Celtics joins us on the show. I just want to start with last night. What's it like when you're that hot in the first 53 points in the first quarter against Miami put up a huge number. What is that experience like when you can't miss?
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It was, it was insane. Like obviously JB started off like not missing to start the game. And I mean, Miami wasn't really missing a whole lot either. So it was just a fun, fast paced back and forth and like when JB gets high, when, when Sam gets hot, like, it's, it's a lot of fun to, to watch. And I felt like the ball was just popping around and we basically got, we got, we got what we wanted right there in that first quarter and we weren't missing a whole lot, so it was a lot of fun.
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A
Did you know that Tatum was coming back this year?
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B
Nah, I didn't know. I think at the beginning I was like, I think he's going to come back within. There's like some time during the year where I'm like, he might not come back. And, and so like, I really wasn't focused too much on if he was going to come back or not. And I think like, around like a week or so before he came back, like, that's when I kind of like, knew he was gonna come back. And it was, it was a real exciting time.
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How did you find out?
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Like, we had a, like a team meeting like the day before. Joe, like, basically we all sat in the film room and Joe was like, jt's coming back. He's gonna start tomorrow, and winning is the most important thing and we gotta keep that mindset. And so just kind of had that little team meeting and said what we needed to say.
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Yeah. Because, I mean, still it was. It's such a crazy year for the, for the organization. Right. Because you have new ownership coming in. I think you understand this stage of your career, like the finances that are involved in it. So it's like, okay, we're moving out some of these pieces because you're worried about the tax. And then it's like, well, how good is the team going to be? How much did that even bother you that it felt like it was being perceived as. And I know Jalen kind of laughed about the gap year thing, but how much did that bother you as a team?
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B
I think it was just. It's good to have like a chip on your shoulder. I mean, I mean, ever since I've been in Boston, we've been the favorites or one of the favorites. And people have always expected us to win 60 games and go to the championship and whenever it might be. And so I think it was just a little different. Like this off season where nobody had any expectations for us and people actually thought we were going to be really, really bad. And so I think it kind of just put a chip on all of our Shoulders. And I think there's a lot of guys that look were ready for their opportunity and they just hadn't had it yet. Like with the team we had in the past and we got out this year and we show what we were capable of.
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How does Tatum coming back impact your game?
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B
I mean, obviously it changes a little bit everybody's game. I mean, he's JT and he can do so many different things on the court. And so I think I might have especially like when JB would go out, like I had the ball a lot more like me and Peyton. And now, like if JB's out, then probably JT's in. And so I think that's probably the biggest change. But then really like just the way he can bring the ball up to court, the way he rebounds, the way he can kind of facilitate the team, it kind of changes some things for me there. But I mean, I play with him I feel like for a long time now, and we played in a lot of big games, so it just kind of felt normal again.
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A
Yeah, and I mean this as a positive too. I mean, there's some simple math of, okay, well, this is probably 18 to 19 shots a game that are going to be taken from the collection of other players around it. But like even last night's game, and if you get a little basketball here, like Miami loves that zone and they extend it so far out like it's a two, three. But then sometimes I feel like in the perimeter it looks like a 3:2, and it starts way out. And I can understand, like they want to kind of clog you up. But then it was just such a nice reminder of seeing Tatum at point guard, which is basically what he plays for you guys, which can be kind of lost in the conversation of who he is as a player. But it's like, hey, he's killing this zone every single time. And if they collapse, then it's open for us and there's so much room in the paint, then it's either him downhill or it's Kato. One on one kind of this stuff. I almost feel like I want to talk about the appreciation of how Tatum is really this absurdly sized point guard, but nobody would really ever talk about him like a Luca or a Cade, because that's maybe not how it started. So, like, how do you see him as a player? His contemporaries in the league?
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B
Yeah, I think obviously he came in like being able to score, and I think that's just kind of what people think he think of him as a scorer, but like every year he's gotten so much better and like his playmaking, his rebounding, like his complete game has just really developed. And so I mean he does a lot of things for us. And I mean like especially like against Miami, like that zone is kind of giving us some problems in the past. But I think like last night we did a good job of having the right space and then just trusting that the guys are going to make the right reads. So jb, jt, obviously they're going to have the ball a lot of times and they, they did a great job of just making the right read. And so I think it's a credit to both of them, honestly, of how they developed as playmakers and like teams just can't hone in. It's like we're going to try to make them pass. Like they developed that part of their game where they, we could beat you, like if they're just passing and making the right read every time down the court.
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A
Well, Miami or anybody else, like, do you think that they're trying to disrupt your comfort level on the three point line by playing a defense out that high?
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B
Yeah, I think it just is a little different. It's a zone that, I mean you hear zone and you kind of just expect to be one thing. And their zone is completely different than any other zone in the NBA. And like it looks like a 3, 2 sometimes, it looks like a 1, 31 sometimes and it's a 2 3. Like their wings are really high, really aggressive and they put like their, their bigger wings at the, at the top of the zone. So. And they do is just a little bit different. And if you don't have the right spacing, you don't make the right reads. It definitely gives you a lot of problems.
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A
This will be my last Tatum return question, I promise. But when he came back, did you say, hey, I don't know if you heard, but I'm a top five player in the NBA based on what Kenny Atkinson said.
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B
I did, I did not, I did not let him know, not let him know that. That was pretty crazy. A lot of people were sending me that. He's pretty cool for him to say, but yeah, I don't really think of myself like that.
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I think, you know, it's okay. Like, I don't think you're going to be offended by me saying like, I don't blame you for not thinking you're a top five player, but what was your reaction when you first heard that?
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B
I mean, I mean if you just look at the quote like the complete quote. I think it kind of just talks about how I could just do a little bit of everything on the court and just try to help the team any way I can. And so I think that's kind of how I took it. I didn't think it was like, if you're going to start a franchise, I'd be one of five people you'd pick. But I mean, if you just look at that singular quote, I guess you can see where people kind of lose their mind.
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Yeah, because I think he was also referencing like some of the on off stuff as well and how well that number has shown up for you. But it was funny because he was kind of like, you know, there's stuff that we have that, you know, I was like, what do you mean? Like the stuff that's all out there on the Internet that you can look up. I do wonder if your basketball path, though, allows you to appreciate that without having that go to your head. Maybe if you're a second year guy and you hear something like that, you're going, hey, I need more touches, or you guys need to clear out for me a little bit. What do you think about your role where you're this terrific player, you can kind of do everything. There's a reason why San Antonio wanted you, there's a reason why Boston would trade for you. But I. I could see somebody else with your skill set being like, you know, maybe I'd like more shots on a worse team. So I'm just curious, like, how you think of what you're capable of versus what you prefer as a player.
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B
I mean, I think, I mean, definitely, like, if I was in my second year, someone said that I'd be like, I'm about to be thinking all these All Stars, all this, but I think I'm pretty comfortable with who I am as a player and what I can do on the basketball court. And so I think every game it kind of tells you to do something differently. And I think one of my strengths is be able to kind of figure out what, what the game is telling you to do that day and kind of do what the team needs. And so if I can help us win games, if I can help us be competitive, like, that's just really my only goal. And whether I, like, last night I took four shots or I take 20 shots, like, it doesn't really matter to me. I just want to help us win games.
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A
What do you like about Boston living there, playing there, that maybe you didn't understand?
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B
I mean, the people are the Best. I mean, anywhere I go, I get a lot of love. And I think there's a support that, that they have there is second to none. And then I like the history, I like the food. Like, everything about it. It's always interesting. Like, if you want to stay low key, like, you can. If you want to go find some stuff, you can. So I think Boston just got like the whole package and. But I think it really just started the people and how much love and support they give the their sports teams. And I'm a big sports guy, so I love being in a sports city.
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A
Are you upset about this Red Sox start?
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B
Upset? No. But I am going to a Red Sox game here soon. And like, being at Fenway is. Is a one of a kind. And I mean, it was a really fun year last year and like being a part of or being around, like Red Sox in the playoffs, because that was the first year since I've been in Boston that they were actually competitive. And so hopefully they turn it around here soon and there's a lot more competitive baseball here coming up. Still early.
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A
It is very early. Derek. That is. That is accurate. I don't know Missoula. I've known of him whether he's a player, different people with the Celtics, like, when he wasn't even the head coach, it's like, he's really good and then he's named the head coach with everything going on, and it's like, no, no, no, this guy's. This guy's going to be really good. I would say if he wasn't as successful, there's a lot of people going, like, what is up with this guy? How much of this is real and how much of it is him messing with everybody publicly?
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B
I mean, I think 90% of it is real. Like, that's just who he is. I think, obviously, I think like the media and how he talked to you, there's obviously a little bit different. But, like, that's just who he is the other day. And like, his brain's just kind of wired differently and he's kind of like, we landed in Milwaukee and he was. He was happy that it was raining and that they needed it to rain in Miami or he was hoping it was going to rain in Miami and just like, he just wired differently like that.
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A
And wait, why would he have wanted it to rain in Miami? So everyone just stays in the hotel or.
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B
He likes it when it rains. He likes it when it's cold outside. He's just like, we went to LA early in the year and it was raining, and he was like, oh, this is amazing. Like, I'm so happy right now. So he's just. That's just how he is. Just. He's just a little different. It's great.
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A
Give me an example of something that he said to you as a player, that. That was a coach, you know, coaching you, where, you know, some of you guys are just kind of like, so good that, you know, I don't know how much coaching is still developing you as a player, but is there something that he said to you in your time with him that you were like, oh, that's. That's really smart, or. I hadn't thought of the game that way.
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B
I mean, I think just the way he talks about, like, the margins, I mean, I never really looked at it like that. And just a way that everybody kind of just like, oh, they're just jacking up threes. But I think just the way he talked about the margins, the way he can kind of get different advantages through a game. And I think my favorite part about him is just the trust. Like, he can. He really trusts his players, and he puts a lot of faith and belief in them. And so, I mean, as soon as he got the job, like, he. He's really given me a lot of confidence, just. But just based off of his. His trust in me.
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A
Yeah, it's. It's a good point, though, because, like, and I'll ask you, and I don't want this to sound critical because it's. It's an offensive system that's already proven. The concept is proven. You have an NBA championship. Okay? And I think fans and definitely some of us in the media times, like, when it's not working, like, I don't want to be so results based, but it's like, man, they're going so quick. And like, that's a contested three, and that was. And the shot clock is that kind of forgetting that the overall math and the whole approach is like the first good look you get, like, let's play the possession game. Let's play the math game and get it up. So you may not think it's a great shot, it may not necessarily look like a great shot, but for the course of 48 minutes, take all of these. Even in the times where it feels like it's rushed, I think just based
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B
on the team we had. And like, sometimes it might be a contested three, but that might be the best shot you can get the whole possession. Like, there's no. Like, you don't want to turn down a. A Good look. And I think a lot of times, especially the teams we had in the past, like, like those are the looks that we wanted, especially they could be early, it could be late. Like you don't want to turn down a look like that and then. But I think like the whole league's kind of just turned into kind of what we, we were doing in the past. Like we're not the most three point shooting team anymore. And I think it's an exciting brand of basketball, especially when you're able to generate a lot of good looks. And so for us it's really just like trying to create an advantage and then try to keep that advantage. And usually that ended up in a three ball and we had like eight guys that shot threes and so that was pretty crazy. But I think we do things a little bit differently this year and that's a credit to Joe and the staff of how they kind of adapted to our personnel.
- [30:20]
A
Yeah. Did you think you needed to maybe discover a different gear. Thank you. Than some of the hunting for the mismatch or just looking for the first, you know, above average three point attempt? Like, do you think you found a different. Maybe it's not even gear, like a different note to play when you start thinking about who you'll be in the playoffs against. Tougher defense.
- [30:41]
B
Yeah, I think, I mean, I think a lot of teams now, they don't really have like a weaker defender or something that you like one attack every time down. So how are you going to create advantage if everybody is just switching and it's just one on one. And so that's something we talk about all the time. And I mean the playoffs, every series, every game is a different challenge. And I think we got a lot of different ways we can win games, a lot of different options we can go to. And that's what you're going to need in the playoffs because every game's a little bit differently. And like you said, we're playing good defenses and especially like the longer you go, like the better the teams are, the more tapes out there. And so it's definitely a challenge to create those advantages. So I think this year we've done a little bit more on how to get those advantages for us.
- [31:30]
A
You may want to save that Jaylen Brown out of timeout. Corner three from the right corner late last night where it's Hauser sets the first screen and then it's kind of like a little misdirection and then Kate is over. That thing was just filthy. And again, JB wasn't missing. I mean, the number of shots that he hit last night where I was like, okay, there's no way that one's going in. He's looking the wrong way and his legs are spread. His. His shot, like, what's a good shot for him? There's like, I can't ever get upset about any of the looks because I cannot believe how many tough ones seem to go in for him, especially this year.
- [32:08]
B
He's a big time shot maker. I mean, I think some, like last night he had like, he was dribbling in and like stepped back into the corner and like falling out of bounds. And especially when he gets it going like that. Like there's been a few games where he's just doesn't seem like he misses anything. But I mean, through the course of time, like, he always kind of gets to his spots and once he gets to his spots, it's not much of a defense can do.
- [32:36]
A
One of the things that I wanted to ask you about is last year against the Knicks. And look, Tatum goes down with a terrible injury that was in game four. It kind of felt like they were going to win that game and go up 3 1. What did you think was different for you guys coming off of a championship in that series?
- [32:59]
B
Oh, that series is crazy to me. I mean, obviously being up 20 both games, ones and two and then losing those games, you never really want to go down 02 when you have home court. And so obviously you look at those games and I mean, if we just win one, like it's a whole wholly different series. Totally different series. And so, and I think obviously JT going down and people were kind of banged up and KP had the illness and everything. So I don't think we were the same team as we were the year before. And the Knicks were just better than us.
- [33:38]
A
I want to go back to high school. We ask all of our guys this that played Parker, Colorado, you're getting recruited. What's your best recruiting story from back in the day of why you either ended up in Boulder or some other place that you thought you were going to go? Like, what's your favorite memory from that time during your recruitment out of high school? Yeah,
- [34:07]
B
I didn't have a whole lot of recruitment. My dad was sending out like highlight tapes to like all the division twos in Colorado, just trying to get me any team interested. I think my favorite story is that Metro State, which was a big time Division 2 basketball team in Denver, Colorado, they came and watched me play a high school game and Like, I was just trying to walk on. Like, I. And I didn't expect the scholarship, nothing. And, like, they went and watched, and then after, they're like, I wasn't good enough to walk on. And so that's probably, like, my favorite story is, like, this Division 2 team basically said I couldn't walk on, even just practice with their team. So that kind of put a chip on my shoulder. And. And then I. I think, like, another one is, like, Coach Culver was at recruiting me at Johnson and Wales, and I didn't really have a whole lot of interest in going to Johnson and Wales, but, I mean, they thought it was cool that someone was recruiting me. And so, like, I was, like, super. Like, a call I would pick up right away. And, like, I think if, like, I had the mindset, I was like, I'm never gonna go there. And I was just, like, a jerk to him the whole time that if he got. When he got the job at uccs, he wouldn't have called me and like, hey, you want to come? And so I think that's a good lesson for a lot of the kids out there. It's like, you never know who you meet, what they're going to become, and what they can do for you.
- [35:29]
A
He saw it when no one else did. So was it tough then to be like, hey, I'm going to go to Boulder and transfer?
- [35:36]
B
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like, I had long talks with my family and people close to me, and it was tough. Like, I loved it at uccs. Like, we had just won the rmac. Like, we just did a lot of different things. And so, like, after the season, I was like, I'm gonna come back. It'll be better. Like, the Stratoche Division 2 national championship. But then, like, talking to people, like, I think it might be best for me and my career to go to CEO, which is kind of. I feel like it was, like, selfish. Like, I didn't like to la. I was, like, kind of selfish for me, but I knew it would be the best for me and my best opportunity to get to the next level. And so I had to kind of make the. Make the jump.
- [36:17]
A
You don't hear that a lot from basketball players. Like, I felt a little selfish about doing this.
- [36:21]
B
I didn't like that.
- [36:24]
A
It is crazy, though, like, how visual we are, not just in sports, but, like, everything, right? And I remember the combine in Chicago because I used to host it for espn and one of my favorite scouts ever, Steve Rosenberry, and he's one of the best that I've ever talked to for 20 years. And I forget which team he was with at the time, but I got a little time with him in between whatever the television broadcast. And he's like, you know who's nasty? And he points at you. And I didn't know that much about you, so I was like, really? And you're like, trust me, watch this guy play. And I think that's probably something that you certainly understand because it happened to you, but that there would almost be this dismissive way of looking at you where it's like, well, that guy can't be that good. And then you're running around out there and it's like anybody that really appreciates how a really good basketball player plays the game. And it also helped that you got over six feet finally when I know you were a bit of a late bloomer for sure after all this help. But it must be just to be like, hey, man, you're telling me my life story. Up until, you know, you started putting up some numbers with the spurs, where it was just. It almost felt like anytime anybody started with you, it started with doubt about what you couldn't do.
- [37:40]
B
Yeah, I think I, I don't like, I don't have like that wow factor. Like, I think a lot of times, especially in like those pre drafting and you know, like, recruiting process, like you kind of looking for someone that kind of like wows you. And I don't think I'll, I'll ever really have, like every now and then I'll do some things. You're like, wow, that was impressive. But over the most part, like, I don't think I have that wow factor. So I think I kind of just get overlooked. Overlooked. But I think over the long, long run that like, what I do kind of works and I just gotta stick with it.
- [38:14]
A
Yeah, I think it works. I think it works. Kind of final thought here. I don't think you're gonna be good enough as a guest to like, go, hey, we are really afraid of this team and we have no fear of that team. I know that I'm doing this long enough. I know that's not the way that works. When you talk with your teammates though, is there any sense of like figuring out the east at all? Like, how do you guys talk about all the teams around you with the way the seating looks right now?
- [38:41]
B
Yeah, it's. East have been crazy. We kind of looked in the year that east was going to be down, but I think, I mean, if you look at like 5 through 10, like it changes like every day and so you never really know who you're going to play. And those teams are playing some of the best basketball in the NBA right now. And so I think the cool thing for us, especially down the stretch here is that we play a lot of them. So we get a lot of like good ramp, like a good preparation for the playoffs and every game is going to be a challenge. And so it's been a fun couple of weeks with that and you really have no idea who you're going to play, especially with the playing and everything like that. So seatings could change every day. And it's been a lot of fun basketball to watch.
- [39:26]
A
It's been a lot of fun to watch your career as well, man. Just keep doing your thing. I'm sure you will. And excited about the playoffs. Thanks Derek. Appreciate you this episode coming off some seas talk is brought to you by Bodyama Flash IV, the rapid rehydration drink of Match Madness. Flash IV's packed with electrolytes delivering faster, longer lasting hydration without any artificial dyes, flavors or sweeteners. Whether you're training, traveling, just feeling the heat. Now look, obviously where I'm from we don't travel a ton. Maybe the red lineup, but who would want to do that? But I'm telling you, grab a body armor Flash IV for the trip, whether it's on the metro, whatever that's called, the T or a flight if you actually leave the 617, which is not something people from that area are known to do from time to time. Work hard, hydrate hard. Bodyama Flash iv, the official rapid rehydration drink of much madness. Grab it at 7:11. From the wildest upsets to the most creative bracket bus shared. We saw that no matter how the bracket ended, every moment was a chance for fans to win and reward themselves with Reese's. All tournament long brackets have busted for Reese's and we've seen some epic fails and even more epic Reese's fans. We even sent someone to the Final four. Everything happens for Reese's, even busted brackets. Shop Reese's now@hersheyland.com Reese's perfect time in front of the Final Four and to continue some of the draft conversation, we'll get some NBA in there as well because he is terrific. Sam Bassini of the Athletic. He has his top 100 player rankings. He has the scouting reports up and of course his podcast available audio and on YouTube game theory. Okay, I was talking with Billis on Monday and this has been something that's Been going on with UConn for a little while where when I watch them on offense, I have to watch them differently than most any other team because I make sure I'm watching what they're really trying to do as opposed to all the eye candy that they run themselves through. And you know, he mentioned Luke Murray who's now going to take over and be the Boston College head coach, which is awesome news for him. I know that you have. I don't want to overstate this or share too much, but I know there's a relationship there that you have with him. So, like, can you give us a even greater understanding of what it is about UConn and this buy in from the coaching staff and the players to really advance offensive basketball in a way that I don't even think NBA teams would want to run some of the stuff that they're doing because there's such a commitment to staying in that set for that long.
- [41:58]
C
Well, it's a little bit more of a European style. Right. And I know that, you know, you know, Luke Murray spoken about this publicly and Danny Hurley, I think literally said it on your show at one point that like, you know, Luke will just stay up and watch European basketball and try to find things to steal. Right. It's a more like egalitarian European style of game. And I think that what they have done is they have decided to incorporate more of those kind of stylistic flourishes than what other organizations across college basketball have. You know, you look at Illinois, Illinois, who they're going to play in the Final Four, has been the other, like I wouldn't say other. There are plenty of teams that have been more effective than Connecticut offensively this year. I think they're like 30th in offensive efficiency. But you know, Illinois this year did it by basically studying the Boston Celtics. And what they do is they run a lot of guard to guard actions and they play five out basketball very similar to the Celtics. And what their goal is is to find the mismatch that they want for Keaton Wagler and have a well spaced court and allow him to get a paint touch or to collapse the defense. With UConn, it's a lot more. We're running off ball actions like Silas Emery can get a paint touch, but he's not like a truly elite like paint touch point guard. It's really funny looking back at what we now know that Stefan Castle is as a paint touch player and how effective he's been in that regard in the NBA, especially this season. Yukon, like he basically played as a. I don't know, do you want to call him like a small ball? Four kind of. So the.
- [43:40]
A
He was an afterthought, you know, I mean, was it. There was one of the tournament games there where it was almost surprising how. How much he got going offensively because he could also have five points in a game and you wouldn't even. It didn't even hurt them necessarily.
- [43:52]
C
Right. And like, in the. I think it was one of the final four games, like, he was just cutting off the ball and moving off of the ball, and they would, like, set up a dummy action for him to cut back door. And they would find it back door and find him at the rim. So I think what they do better than anybody else, and this goes for the whole staff, you know, from Danny Hurley to, you know, come on, a young Duke Murray to everybody, you know, over there, Mike Nardi. They are great at taking away what you're trying to do as your top option against Michigan State. Michigan State wants to get out and transition on defense. They're going to get out and transition on offense. They're going to get back on defense, and they're going to make it impossible for you to do so. Jeremy Fears against Duke, they're going to try and throw the ball into Cam Boozer. Well, can we really stop that? Maybe not. Like, we don't really have the option to do so because we don't want to get Terrace Reed in foul trouble. And then Alex Caraban is in a great matchup. But what's the number two thing they want to do? They want to get Isaiah Evans the ball. Isaiah Evans only attempts six shots in the game against Duke, and that's a huge reason why they won. And then offensively, they're just so good at running you through the ringer, running you through the ringer. And because so many other teams haven't seen that throughout the course of the year, I think that they're exceptionally difficult to prep for because they also just have such a long Rolodex of plays that they can go to and that they feel comfortable running with counters upon counters upon counters off of those actions.
- [45:21]
A
When I think about what they'll want to do offensively, you know, it's going to start with Terrence Reed, who's been on this incredible run. Clearly, Duke thought that they could get away with playing him straight up. He has an amazing start, and maybe Duke still was like, hey, we're in control of this game, so we don't necessarily need to double him. They Doubled him in the second half. I wonder if Illinois will one go. Hey, let's not let him go off. And granted Illinois has a bunch of different size combinations they can run out there as well. Where, you know, Duke probably wasn't totally comfortable with who. Where like Dong Bos was at this point because it was like, you know, he's coming back from his injury. It's kind of up and down. We know how physical he is and that he's a huge presence, but it didn't seem like it was something that they preferred. And then the other part of UConn that I think is kind of interesting is like even though Caravan has 27 against UCLA, he's a. I don't mean to say like a secondary offensive player, but he's usually an offensive player off of all the other things that happen, I think, which is totally fair to say about him. He's a guy that averages 13 a game. It's gotta be some stuff for him off the catch. And then it's a decision he's not going to bring the ball up and then just work anybody. Mullins is hit or miss. Maybe there's a little bit more shot creation in there from him, but we don't really see it and might be like solo ball as their best on ball, like kind of creator. And that's the part of like where UConn, it's like, how will they lose? Well, maybe they lose because there's just not enough on ball creation late in the shot clock against the Illinois team that feels like they have a lot of people they can run out there defensively to try to clog you up.
- [46:56]
C
Yeah, it's really interesting. So just kind of thinking about, you know, UConn's offense, right. Like they've been really successful in the tournament by putting the ball down low to Terrace Reed. Right. And like you say Illinois, they have both the Avisich twins, they have David Mirkovich, like they have a lot of bodies that they can throw it Terrace Reed in a way that Duke just doesn't. Right. Because Duke doesn't want to get Kam Boozer in foul trouble. Kambuzer in general is not a very vertical player. It. I don't know, what do we want to call Cam Boozer, like six, eight, six, eight and a half with a seven foot wingspan. So he's just a size mismatch in general with Reed on top of not being very vertical. So he's going to be able to score over the top of Boozer. And then the thing that Duke did That was really weird to me was I thought that they would start Gungba and put him on Reed or they would start Malik Brown and put Malik Brown on Cara Ban and cross match. But they started with Malik Brown on terrace Reed and that's just like a total mismatch, size wise and physicality wise. And that's why Reed got going early. Like, Malik Brown can run off of actions. Cam Boozer doesn't really run off of actions. Like, the whole reason that I was thinking throughout the first half, well, like, look, UConn isn't playing well, but I don't think they're dead is that I thought they were getting good shots like Alex Caribbean and Braylon Mullins missed five wide open threes in the first half. And if they make two or three of those, you're sitting here and it's a, what, six point game going into halftime, maybe a nine point game going into halftime. And it doesn't look nearly as bad as what it was. So I was just sitting there going like, okay, like, I don't think they're dead yet in this game. Obviously, Duke did a really good job of like kind of putting the clamps down defensively, but as it refers to Illinois, they just don't really have the, the mismatches that Duke has for guarding UConn on the offensive end. Like, I will. It's hard because we just, we saw this matchup earlier this year, right? Like UConn demolish them. Like, absolutely dump truck them. It felt like to me, and it was before they moved Keaton Wagler to point guards literally the game before, or maybe two games before, they moved Keaton Wagler to point guard and they just like completely erased Wagler. Wagler was like in the corner and they got up into his body and they made his life miserable in that game. I think he had like two points, maybe something like that. And I'll be interested to see how Illinois goes about getting him more involved. It'll just be very simple. He's playing point guard now. He will play at that level. But how does Illinois go about taking that away from UConn or go go about taking that away from Illinois? Do they try to force the bottle, Wagler's hand, force him into the corner? Because Wagler is somebody that will make the right decision. Like we saw in the Houston game. He's just going to pass it around and make sure everyone's getting the ball.
- [49:49]
A
Wagler has. You know, if you look at the box score against Houston and look, anytime you're playing Houston, it's going to be chaos. But for Illinois to do that to Houston in itself is like one of the biggest statements of the entire tournament. So you can get caught up in kind of like, hey, didn't shoot it all that well. But then you flip it to the Iowa game and there's just got to be something about Waggler where even though it doesn't look as dynamic as you want it for like the best lottery prospect on the ball, like, you know, we always think of like ant, like I think of Anthony being incredibly crisp, the hard dribble right into this movement and it's just the, the perfect vision of like what you would want an on ball guy to be. But Wagler has clearly something to him, some kind of shake to him where you think you have him and you don't. And sometimes it's angles, sometimes it's physicality, sometimes it's stopping, sometimes it's just you guessing wrong. And so I don't, I don't even care about like the shooting percentages necessarily with him, some of the shot making and then decisions and the passing and cuts to the baseline. Like he was in complete control, I think offensively at that I in that Iowa game. And to your point, like he is, he's this kid who's just running all of their possessions in huge, huge spots. And it's easily the best look. It's the best look for them. And you know, look, UConn's going to get really physical with that. They're not just going to let him waltz into wherever he wants to go. But you are missing, I think, and I'm not saying this to you, but you're kind of missing the point on Wagler if you think, oh, he's just not dynamic enough. Well, maybe the NBA, we worry about it later because right now he's still getting wherever he wants to, seem to want to go.
- [51:26]
C
Well, the thing to me is like, yes, he was in complete control of the Iowa game. He goes for 13 points on 4 of 11. I think it was against Houston, right? He was in complete control of that game too. And it was because Houston was blitzing the ball every time. What Illinois did in that game was they found the mismatch with Kingston Flemings. They would run a guard to guard screen, get Kingston Flemings onto Wagler, and then they would bring up whoever Kristen Nak was guarding into the ball screen and every single time they just went to that well. They went to that well. They went to that well and they would blitz the ball screen and Wagler would just get rid of it. Sometimes it was a skip pass to Jake Davis, opposite wing, sometimes it was just a little drop off pass, sometimes it was a pass to the like basket, right? But he was in complete control the whole time offensively despite the fact that he only took 11 shots and he only scored 13 points. Right? That's the like when people bring up Tyrese Halliburton in comparison to Keaton Wagler, that's the stuff that he does that I think is very Halliburton and I will listen to that piece of it. He reminds me a little bit more of like an Austin Reeves though, like physically where it's all very herky jerky. It's all, it builds off of the shot, right where Wagler loves this like jab step right, crossover, right to left move. It's his favorite move by far. And what makes that so effective is that he is such a threat as a pull up shooter that teams have to account for it. So he'll jab right, go left, he's an effective driver, he's an effective pull up shooter. You don't really know what to do. And then on top of it, what he does really well to your point, is he plays off of hang dribbles really well. So he's always constantly threatening the defense with the potential that he's going to shoot off of those hang dribbles. And then when he sees somebody finally come out, he's like, bam. I'm just going right and you can't do anything about it. I'm going to beat you to the rim. Even though I'm not the fastest or, you know, strongest guy in the world, I have the advantage because you have to play my shot. I love watching that dude play. I think he's so, so sharp and so smart.
- [53:44]
A
Who are you picking?
- [53:47]
C
If Connecticut hadn't beaten them in the way that they did earlier this year, I would pretty easily take Illinois, I think. And it's a different Illinois team. I get it because of Wagler. Again, like the thing that is so interesting to me is like, you know, we talked about Luke Murray and the influence he's had on UConn's offense early on. Tyler Underwood at Illinois is also an absolute stud. Like he is the one who brings like a lot of the offensive principles into the mix. This like 5 out offense based on finding mismatches. I think that they can find mismatches in that game. And I think that my immediate reaction is that Illinois is probably the more talented team now that they figured out Wagler on the ball. But like, I kind of also just refused to bet. I'm like hedging and I hate hedging. Like I, I can't bet against Hurley on some level and I can't bet against that coaching staff in a one game setting. They took that Florida team that won the national title last year down to the absolute wire in the NCAA tournament with no, no offensive creation whatsoever. They're just really good at this. The staff is unbelievable at figuring out an answer to what you're going to do. I think I'm taking Yukon. My brain says Illinois. And then like I know deep down in my soul that UConn's coaching staff is going to figure this out and figure out a way to stop them and win.
- [55:18]
A
Okay, give me just your pick on Michigan. Arizona. And then there's a question. We don't have to break it down yet.
- [55:24]
C
Arizona.
- [55:26]
A
Okay. I too like Arizona, but certainly I think we both agree we think Michigan can win. This isn't somebody. There's no way Michigan can win. When I watch Arizona and I just love them so much, I think the best way to ask is how do they lose? How do they lose this game? I love that.
- [55:50]
C
So a team that doesn't really take many threes, right? Like they're not solely reliant on that by any stretch. I mean if Michigan just drills three, like if Yaxel goes three of six from three and then Trey McKenney and the other guards at Michigan shoot it, well, I think that's the easiest pathway, I would say to them beating Arizona. But I mean they just have so many. Think with Arizona is they have so many bodies that throw at you. Like they're so tough, they're so physical. But then on top of it they have the shot creation with Jaden Bradley and Braden buries. Right. Like Michigan, they really are just kind of the bullies. Like they're going to attack you on the glass. They're going to get out and transition. They're going to be bigger and more physical and more athletic than you. Arizona can match that. But then they have the backcourt to create shots and like be able to consistently create half court offense in a way where sometimes like I think Michigan goes through stretches a little bit, especially since LJ Cason has been down or been injured where I think that that can be a bit of a problem.
- [56:59]
A
I asked Billis this, I'll ask you because you put more into it if, if London Borg was 19, is he the number one pick in the draft?
- [57:08]
C
No. I don't think so.
- [57:10]
A
Okay. All right. He'd be what, 23 before next season starts or 24.
- [57:16]
C
24 before next season starts.
- [57:17]
A
Yeah.
- [57:18]
C
Yeah. I mean, like you're saying like plug his exact game that he has now.
- [57:22]
A
His game now? Yeah, five, you know, with five years of youth before the season were to start in the NBA.
- [57:28]
C
Yeah, the. The answer's still no to me. Just because of the like shot creation aspect. Honestly, like, he's not as fluid of a ball handler as like AJ And Darren and those guys. He'd be a top five pick for sure. It'd be like a real question between like. I think he'd go ahead of Caleb Wilson.
- [57:46]
A
I think because he's so big and he can play, you know, it's almost like he plays different versions depending on what's needed. You know, he's been terrific. Right. And so I don't look at him as like a guy who. Where I think, like, hey, I wish his handle was a little bit better maybe. I just look at him almost as his power forward in a way. Even though, you know, look, Morris Johnson's more of the power forward. And sometimes I watch him and think, like, do you just love the physical part of this? Because then there's like this rule I'll have. I'll be like, hey, how good is he as a basketball player, man? Like, is he a good basketball player? Before you start to just fall in love with all these measurables of some of these guys? Because that's usually where you'll miss on. On some of the guys that are on the freakish side of things.
- [58:27]
C
That's my rule with Koha Pete this year. Like, yeah, co op. Okay. He doesn't shoot it. Like, his feet are a little bit slow. Yeah. But he's like an ass kicker of a basketball player. Like, you just watch him and he out physicals everybody and he's super smart and he's great with spacing and like, just has an inherent understanding of the game.
- [58:46]
A
Yeah. Because if I had. I have a bunch of things that I want to throw at you that are a little quicker. So let's just do this then. If you could pick one player, that's it could be first round. Maybe it's lottery. Maybe lottery is a little bit more fun. Pick one, play. It doesn't have to be you do whatever you want with it. But I just have a name in mind. If you could pick one player where you'd say, I just wish this guy went back for one more year just to see what it would look like, who would that be? Because for me, it's Co opied.
- [59:14]
C
It'd be Nate. Amen. For me, the answer to that question for me is almost always the guy that's physically underdeveloped on some level. I want those guys to get lower stakes reps in the NBA than what they're presented with in the NBA. Just to develop their frame physically more. Right. Like to get a chance to develop their game and, you know, get those reps on the ball with an extra year of strength and see how that develops. I think co opied's a great answer to this question. It'd probably be number be in my top two or three for sure.
- [59:48]
A
Yeah. Amen. With the ankle, I think it has to be factored in with his tournament.
- [59:53]
C
Totally.
- [59:55]
A
When he's handling any 6, 10, you understand why the conversation around him was what it was over the summer and then going into it too. And I think there's even a Peterson comparison here too. Not saying they're the same types of players, but you can give these players a hard time. But when somebody's that gifted and that big and then it becomes a debate of like, are we talking about apprehension or are we talking about like, understanding? And with Amen, what I really liked is that I don't know that he ever like, sure, there were times where I'm like, I'd like you to be a little bit more aggressive, but I don't think he was like, aggressive in a way that was detrimental to his team. And clearly his point guard was going to let it fly all game long because that's kind of what they were trusting in their offense there. So I think there's like some good foundational stuff with Amen where I'm like, this guy's not an asshole of a basketball player. Just like, hey, I'm 6 10, get
- [60:48]
D
out of my way.
- [60:48]
A
All this stuff worked. He's like actually trying to play hoops, even with the struggles, I think shooting wise throughout the tournament, which again, I know the box score is not something that's going to blow anybody away, but I think there's some like, sprinkling of some positives in there of what you're working with as a player.
- [61:03]
C
Yeah, no, I totally agree. He just isn't efficient enough right now. You can't shoot around. He can't make baskets around the rim, which is an issue that he's had going back to high school. Like, even on the AAU circuit, he was a low percentage finisher at the rim. Now this Year. The way that he is buoyed that is by getting to the foul line and like living at the foul line and striding out and using his ability to decelerate around the basket to draw contact and draw fouls, which I think has been really important for his development. The other issue with a mint though is that he was a 40% three point shooter on the AAU circuit going into his senior year. And this year he shot 33% from 3.
- [61:44]
A
33% ballpark.
- [61:45]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:46]
A
And 40% overall might be the more damning number just because of that size to your point on the putbacks.
- [61:54]
C
But yeah, like, it just feels, it feels like a difficult, a difficult skill set when you're that skinny and you're dealing with physical, powerful NBA players. And you're also like not wildly explosive either. I really like Nate. Amen. To be clear, he's like definitely a lottery pick for me, but it's more like back half of the lottery because I really worry about him starting his NBA clock so early when he's just like not physically ready to play. Like, you see the way Cody Williams plays in the NBA right now. And I think Nate's more talented than Cody Williams, but like he just can't physically do it. Like he's just now starting to physically be able to deal with like the contact that NBA teams present. And you know, like, I worry about a mint being able to do that early in his career. What? Why? So why do you want co op to go back?
- [62:48]
A
I love him. You know, sometimes that first impression stuff and obviously, you know, you know who the guys are and then you're. I think the first time I watched him I was kind of like underwhelm. You know, I just caught a random Arizona game, which is easy to be underwhelming in the rotation of all the different options that we've clearly referenced numerous times on this pod. But there was two plays in that Purdue game where he did it on his own and he got like a pull up in the paint. Then I was like, that looks like a guard. Okay. And it wasn't off of all of this stuff. It wasn't like a straight post up. It was kind of like we're going to get you into the middle on a catch so that you're away from the sides. And then it's going to be kind of up to you because we actually trust your passing in this spot too. And there's probably another big in there, whether it's a walker or crevasse that is going to take up somebody else's attention. So it could be up to you to just go overpower the defender. There could be an option to pass out of this whole thing. And he hit two like pull ups in the paint, including one over Jacobson, who's what, seven, four? Yeah. And the shot over Jacobson. I'm like, that is fucking special. Like, remember this play here? And there's just a kind of back to that basketball thing. It's like, hey, I think he might just be like awesome at basketball on top of having this body that is incredible. And you know, if he went to a different program that's not as deep. I think we're talking about him in a different tier for the draft.
- [64:15]
C
It's interesting just because he. It's so easy to nitpick him. He doesn't shoot threes. Right. He's a bit undersized for like the four role in the NBA, something like that. Like he's probably 6 foot 7ish, I would guess. And he's obviously physical and powerful and like he's not going to have any issue physically dealing with that. But you know, he's, it's just very easy to look at what he can't do. And I think oftentimes scouts get locked into that battle of what somebody can't do versus looking at exactly what you're saying where it's like, oh, well, you know, he just made like this sick mid range jumper over a guy who's 7 foot 4. We might be able to work on the shot, guys. Like it's very possible we could develop that down the road. Oh, they trust him with the ball in his hands in the middle of the court. And they have from Game 1 this season because he played for Tommy Lloyd on the under 19 team. Oh yeah, that says something that seems valuable being able to just have that guy come in. And the other piece of it too is I said the word like ass kicker. He embraces physicality. Like he wants to initiate physicality in a way that really matters in the NBA. Like there is no fear with that kid at all. He has no problem sliding his feet, getting his chest in front of you and you bumping him. He is like, for all of my questions, I do have some questions about him laterally in the way that he slides his feet and whether or not he can open his hips just because, you know, son of a, you know, NFL offensive lineman, long, you know, stretch of linemen in his past, basically in his family history. The hip flexibility is not similar to what a typical NBA player's hip flexibility looks like as a creator or as a defender. But man, where he is explosive as an athlete is he will just go up through you as a leaper. He's a really, really explosive two foot leaper in a way that I think he's actually going to move NBA guys backward when he goes into those players. So I'm a big fan. I think he's just an absolute ass kicker. It's the best way to put it. Like he is an ass kicker of a basketball player.
- [66:31]
A
This episode is brought to you by Body Armor Flash iv, the official rapid rehydration drink of March Madness. Flash IV is packed with electrolytes delivering faster, longer lasting hydration without any artificial dyes, flavors, or sweeteners. Whether you're training, traveling, or just feeling the heat, hey, you don't need to be doing shoulders to be grabbing some of this stuff. If you want to bring it to the gym, boom. Small packaging, easy to handle, tastes great. Which a lot of this stuff that's out there, I'm not going to name any names. You're like, is this supposed to be enjoyable? Body Armor Flash iv, great flavors, great palette of flavor options for you. But you know what I love is if you're traveling, grab one while you're at the airport. Sorry about the cost, but you get the point keeping yourself hydrated, especially when you're flying cross country, it is going to make a world of difference when you land at your destination. Work hard and hydrate hard with Body Armor Flash iv, the official rapid rehydration drink of March Madness. Grab it at 7:11. Okay, draft snapshots. Not enough work done here, but I'm just going to throw it at you right now. I think Bennett Sturtz has a chance. There is a fluidity to his game. The way he moves, there's. I don't know. I don't care. Again, we don't focus on the combine testing numbers nearly as much as the NFL does in the NBA draft world. But there is a flow to him in the way this guy plays basketball and the fact that he shot it this well at every single stop. And I think you have him projected to be a first rounder, which actually makes sense even in a deep trap. I think he's worth taking a shot at because I think there's a little bit something more to him even though I know he's been around for a while.
- [68:13]
C
Yeah, I have him top 20 even. I'm a believer in starts.
- [68:19]
A
That's the. That's going to be the Highest anybody has him? No.
- [68:22]
C
I don't know. It's. It's going to be. I think he's probably going to go like, somewhere 16 to 24 ballpark. Like, I think he goes in the first round here. Like, you mentioned that idea of the athletic testing just being different, right? Like, you look at Bennett Sturts and you say, oh, like, this guy's never going to be able to create an isolation. Like, he just doesn't have the explosiveness, doesn't have the ability. Well, like each of the last two years at Iowa and at Drake, he's been up over 1.05 points per possession in isolation scoring, according to synergy. And it's because he is really good with his jab steps. He's really good with his shot fakes. He has the ability to, like, shot fake and then like, just immediately put it right back into the pocket and shoot up over the top again with like those quick shot fakes to get defenders off balance. Really good on fadeaways. Just is a sick, sick jump shooter in. Very, very versatile in how he can get to his jump shot. I don't think he's really going to put much pressure on the rim. But between the fact that he is a ridiculously intelligent basketball player, his basketball IQ is just like off the charts in the way that he ran that team and shooting and the isolation ability and his comfort in ball screens. Like, I think he just figures it out at the end of the day. I've had a couple people bring up the name, like, okay, what if he's just like a creation of the Ben McCollum scheme? Or what if he's. What if he's like Nate Walters, Right? Is one, One name that somebody brought up to me. I was like, yeah, you know, like, I can. I can see that. I. I get where you're coming from with it. Nate Walters had it. Ryan, that dude had it at North Dakota State.
- [70:00]
A
But there were teams that really liked him.
- [70:05]
C
Oh, he went in the top 40, I think, if memory serves. But, you know, he. I think starts is just going to be fluid enough and good enough to make it work in the NBA.
- [70:17]
A
Yeah, I don't think he's going to be anybody's best player, but you're kind of looking at where the rankings were for some of these guys because, like, all right, here's one that I don't understand. Why is Volca Titus not on anybody's. Do you have him in his top one?
- [70:30]
C
I love him. It's just like, why would he leave? He's going to get, you know, two and a half plus. It might be way more than that. I don't know. It's gonna be like two and a half plus million dollars to go back to Texas.
- [70:41]
A
But you're saying if he were going in, like, here's a perfect example. Braden Smith, all time, all time college career, Purdue. He leads the history of the sport in assists. He is the absolute epitome of what every coach would want to be like, all right, tight game. Figure something out. I do worry that his hard drive to the right block, highest ball fake ever. That once you go, oh, so he just reaches to the sky with the ball and all the college kids fall for it. Maybe we stop falling for that a little bit. But when I think about him in the best case scenario, because I see him projected like kind of in the 30s, maybe 40s on people's top 100s, I just can't fathom like why a vocatitis if available is what you're saying. Vocatitis if available. Would he be considered a better draft prospect than Smith? Because I think vocatitis hands and feet combination was Again, I just started watching Texas recently, but I'm just surprised that I never saw him anywhere.
- [71:46]
C
The feet aren't quite what you want them to be is what I would say in ball screen coverages. I think the Texas late in the season did a really good job of kind of shielding him and keeping him near the paint.
- [71:59]
A
I was talking post touches.
- [72:01]
C
Yeah, he has really fluid feet. It's more like the speed side in like large distances when you have to garden space that are a bit of an issue for him. But I. He would go in the top 45, I think, if he entered the draft. I agree, like, I totally agree with you. It's just like, okay, so we have all these bigs in this class, right? So you know, Hannes Steinbach, Jaden Quaintance probably comes out. Mateus Krivis, Marez Johnson, Adai Mara, Pat Gungba, Chris Sinac, Henri Vasar, terrace Reed, Zubie, Egio4, let's call it. Do you take him over any of those guys?
- [72:41]
A
I think Zubi is like a real. I hope he can kind of go the Kenneth Farid route here.
- [72:46]
C
Yeah, I agree.
- [72:47]
A
Where he's just going to energy the fuck out of you, you know, and that's what he is like. Zubi's a rotational guy. I think best case scenario.
- [72:55]
C
Yeah, I'm a little bit lower on Zubi as well than most people are, for what it's worth. So I agree with you.
- [73:00]
A
But yeah, you know, like Terrace Reed has been on an absolute tear. This is unbelievable. But then again, who is going okay when he comes in? We're running old school post ups Al Jeff, like ask the Timberwolves if we can have their Al Jefferson plays. So yeah, I mean it was even kind of the Zach Edie conversation where I, I think Edie has probably when he's been healthy, you know, you felt better about him. Even if makes it very specific the way that you're going to play with him because he's not going to be able to play like five out in the way that you would kind of think that you'd want to with a John Morant. So it's like clearly a really good front office in Memphis will see something in Edie to take him that high. But there was always part of my Edie argument was as great as he is at this thing that he's doing. When are you going to be doing that? Are you. If you want to go ahead and give him like 10 traditional real post up touches and attempts not just touches at the elbow that count in these post touches where it's like, that's not really a post up. Give him 10 real post ups and see if he can get 12 points, then that's great. And Terrace Reed has added this other development of being able to turn the other way, which nobody really even thought was going to happen. But when I watch it, I go, this is awesome. This guy's been on fire. Who's.
- [74:13]
C
Are you calling him like a Zoolander level like Ambie Turner? Is that what's happening here?
- [74:18]
A
I think he is. I mean, clearly nobody's ready for it because he's turning back the other way. And it's almost like he was like, oh, I could have just turned. Turned this other way the entire time. It's all awesome stuff, but nobody does it. Nobody does it with NBA fives that are actually like 30 minute a night guys. It's like, oh, you're going to set screens and hopefully hit a 3 100%.
- [74:39]
C
Like, I guess that my thing with Terrace is like, I think he moves way better defensively than what people give him credit for. Like, his feet are really good defensively. Like he can slide in large spaces and you might be able to do some variable ball screen coverages and he's just going to crush the glass. Like he's an offensive rebounder, awesome defensive rebounder. And it's kind of your point on Vocatitis. Like you win the, you win the Possession battle when Voca Titus is on the court, that would be my hope with Reed, I think Reed's, you know, I'm probably going to end up with him in the top 40 after everybody goes back, which I think that a lot of players are going to go back to school and cash in at the end of the day. But, you know, I. I think he's probably a backup big. Like, I don't think he's anything more than a backup big.
- [75:23]
A
But you're right, though, and I'm focusing on the offense way too much. I haven't done the work. But your ability to just be average on ball screens and once you're below average, that's where you end up in Europe. You know, this is where it's like, hey, man, you know? And as Canter seems to think that it's all political and it's like, nope, once you get put into the action, man, it was just a net negative every single time. And we're talking about somebody from a skill standpoint. Canner's post stuff was way better than any of these guys were even talking about. I mean, that guy was incredible as an offensive talent. And look, he still made money and still hung around the league for a long time, but once it. Once it was just. It was just too much. It's like, okay, cool, we're going to run him out there and then we know exactly what's going to happen every single time. On a more general point that I. That I want to hit on that I kind of out of order here. How much do you think the tournaments influence some of the conversation with the top guys? Whether it's Boozer, whether it's Peterson DeBonsa.
- [76:21]
C
It has, I would say, like, going back to conference tournaments as well. Even including those, I think Darren Peterson not finishing the year super efficiently or, well, has definitely clouded the conversation around him a little bit. I think more than anything. Look like whoever gets the number one overall pick is going to determine who goes number one, right? Like, this is such an eye of the beholder situation at the top.
- [76:49]
A
Do you want to take some guesses right now?
- [76:52]
C
I will guess. Yeah. I will say, like, I don't know who any of these teams would take at number one right now. Like, I don't. This is a guess. Like, I don't know any of this yet.
- [77:01]
A
All right, well, let's go through it. Yeah, you don't know, but I think it's fun. I think this would be a fun way to do it. All right, so if I go, I'LL go worst record till, you know, it starts to become a pointless exercise. So Washington and the Pacers Both tied at 17 and 58. So let's just go Washington with the tiebreaker. If the Wizards have the number one pick, who do you think they would take?
- [77:20]
C
I think that Debancer feels more like what that front office has valued in the draft since they've been there.
- [77:28]
A
I don't know if that means my
- [77:29]
C
guy Keyshawn, but I mean, like Will Riley as well. Shout out Will Riley.
- [77:35]
A
You love Will Riley right now. I would agree with you. The middle has been nice. Yeah, yeah.
- [77:39]
C
Like he knows, he knows what he's doing out there. He can really drive. But like, the thing about, and this is like a general conversation as we get into this or a general point, NBA front offices, it's not about like, when you're trying to project who they're going to take, it's not about what the front office needs. I think people think of it in that NFL style way with the draft where it's like you have so many positions to fill, like, you really actually need to use the draft in order to fill the things that you need. From a skill perspective with the NBA draft, the way I think of it a lot more often is like every front office has a lot more of a type that they tend to really like. And by and large they tend to value certain things more appreciably than other things.
- [78:27]
A
Okay, I totally agree with you on the NFL part of it. I mean, it's just sometimes you just are so thin at a position, you're just like, hey, we're going to reach for a guy here. All right, Pacers, if they have the number one pick,
- [78:43]
C
I wonder if they're like one of the few teams that would legit look at Cam Boozer at number one because they really value like decision making. Point five, you know, decision making. And neither Debancer nor Peterson really do that. I think I would say, I think, I would say Darren, maybe for them, but I don't know. How do you feel?
- [79:06]
A
I also think the, the Drafting, especially at 1, is going to be influenced a great deal by like who ends up with these picks, right? Because the Pacers front office, tons of security, coach, tons of security. So maybe they take a bigger swing at somebody like Peterson as opposed to just, hey, the floor for Boozer so much higher and then we can plug him in, play him next to Zoo. He's covered there a little bit. He's going to be smart enough to understand what we're doing here immediately where if we bring in DebonSA, DebonSA may be going like, hey, I'm used to kind of just freestyling here and just overwhelming with my athleticism while I learn on the fly. And the Pacers going to be going into 26, 27, thinking they have a chance to win a championship with Halliburton healthy, so.
- [79:46]
C
And they've done that with Ben, with Matheran, too. You know what I mean? Like, they've kind of been down that road and it didn't totally work for them. All these guys are better prospects than Ben Matheran, but, like, those guys that kind of, you know, take over the offense for a minute there, I feel like it hasn't quite worked in the way they wanted.
- [80:05]
A
Yeah, Matheran, I've always kind of argued, and then I've gone to see him in person a couple times and you're like, yeah, this is. This is probably like a Jordan Clarkson path for him where he's going to play in the league a long time, but you're probably going to come off the bench. And, you know, he's had some nights where he's put up some big numbers, probably by necessity because the Clippers needed somebody on the ball to score. How aggressive he is, he gets the freeze roll on all that kind of stuff, but, like, he's playing basically one way all the time. And. And I think that it just becomes tough. It becomes tough to play with somebody like that in big possessions when it's like, hey, we know once you get the ball, this is all you're thinking about doing, even as dynamic as he can be with some of that stuff. So, like, you can look at Sacramento and say they have to get it right, but at the same time, like, they're probably most likely to go with a Peterson type because it's like, this is the best chance at a superstar. So unless they value debona over Peterson as of right now with some of those concerns. So even though I'm going like, hey, who has more security? Who has more job security? Who has less job security? You're probably, if you're in the room in Sacramento, going like, hey, we can't take a boozer because we're never getting close to another guy that has the ceiling of an AJ Or a Peterson.
- [81:16]
C
Yeah, I think that Sacramento would take AJ if you made me bet right now. It's just. It's the best combination of, like, star, upside, safe, you know, prospect, safer than Peterson. Right. And, like, I've heard the rumors about them, really Liking Acuff, like that's been out there, you know. I like Darius Akoff a lot. I really enjoy him. But it's just really hard to take a 6 foot 2 guard who doesn't defend at number one overall.
- [81:45]
A
Brooklyn actually has the third best odds of the number one pick. It is. There's some things I liked about what happened with the roster this year, but overall it's hard to like if you're ranking best rosters to worst rosters just from a talent standpoint to be nice, it's in the bottom five. I think more accurately it would be a little bit closer to like the second or third least interesting roster, maybe the entire league. So that's probably a non boozer team too.
- [82:15]
C
I think it's probably a non boozer team. If you made me bet. I think that they're probably an AJ team. I think that they would go with the bandsa and take like the, the somewhat relative safety and take the upside.
- [82:32]
A
Utah at 5. I think, I mean they were
- [82:38]
C
taking AJ like
- [82:42]
A
okay, but let me, let me just offer a counterpoint. If there is a family in Utah that would not take the BYU guy number one because they like the other guy better, it would be the Ainge family.
- [82:54]
C
Do they own the team that, that that person is involved at Utah Prep and is involved at byu? I don't, I don't think they own the team, unfortunately. I think that Ryan Smith owns the team. And look, for what it's worth, like I say, all and everyone I've ever talked to in Utah says like Ryan Smith is an unbelievable owner to work for and you know, like really, really lets them do their thing. I'd be fairly stunned if they didn't take AJ Given the way that it has worked with Ryan Smith. Like, you know, being involved both at Utah Prep and at byu.
- [83:38]
A
Never rule out the ages. Zagging.
- [83:41]
C
I really shouldn't. You're right. But I don't know, man.
- [83:45]
A
Like, that's a lot of connecting the dots.
- [83:48]
C
A lot of connections.
- [83:52]
A
Dallas at 6 and then it turns into Atlanta at 7.
- [83:55]
C
So yeah, Dallas at 6. I think they would probably. That's an interesting one. I can see them getting in the mix for Peterson. I mean we have no idea who's going to run that team. I saw a report today, think that like they're going to try and get Sam Presti or Brad Stevens. Like good, good.
- [84:13]
A
I don't know why a team wouldn't just go to Preston be like what's the number?
- [84:18]
C
I mean like if I'm If I'm Mark Walter with the Lakers right now, I'm just like, okay, what's the like ownership percentage number that you want? Forget, forget like the number of, you know, you know, salary or whatever. What would I realistically have to do here to get you?
- [84:40]
A
Yeah, I don't think if I just cut a check for the Lakers that was based on a $10 billion valuation. Granted, he didn't have to pay that because he had already owned some of it, but I would frown on that. But it's kind of like the old baseball GM thing. It's like, why is your GM making a million dollars a year and your utility infielders making 7 million a year? Like, why Presti should be making $25 million a year? I don't know what he's making.
- [85:04]
C
This, this is my point of, you know, if I give you 0.25% of Blakers, that's probably something similar to that, right? Pretty good deal to me.
- [85:15]
A
Yeah. Okay, final thoughts here. NBA related. I sit down last night, number one seed in the east, number one seed in the West. I can't wait. The Pistons, who do not have Kate because of what seems to be the most dismissed lung injury ever, where it's like, yeah, be fine, we just reevaluate it. I was excited even without Cade. And then the Pistons were like, we're not playing anybody. Which sometimes I think teams do. It's like, just in case we see these guys, we don't want to give them counsel. Let's not play anyone. I don't know. But again, they didn't play anybody. But then the problem that Doc Rivers rule is the Pistons show up after getting down early and then B Ball Paul starts running around like a 10 day contract player because that's how he plays every night. He's out there like 10 days are coming up. The game ends up in overtime. SGA ends up in this controversial night, which I was part of as well, with a push off. Then he gets called for a push off on the game winner, then it goes to overtime. And at the same time, despite the calls that I don't love, he is so clearly the best player on the court and is the reason why OKC won that game, is the reason why OKC won the game at the against the Knicks where, you know, yes, there are free throws I hate, but there's also the real part of it of like this guy's also taking over this game and making every single shot. And last night's game hitting Jalen Williams in the corner For a huge three when there's three defenders on him doing the exact same thing on the right side to Caruso for a three there. I did think it was alarming though when they had Chet, Jalen, Williams, two lineups where they still couldn't grab a rebound. But maybe that's just B ball. Paul and Smith getting some nice minutes for the Pistons in there. So I'll ask it again here. Is there any part of this rebounding, non secondary ball creator thing that should be a warning for a team that was the first of 60 wins, which seems ridiculous to be worried about?
- [87:15]
C
I don't know that I'm worried about like what happened in the Pistons game. Right. Like the way that that bore itself out. I'm a little bit less concerned about that. I'm fairly concerned about the fact that I think San Antonio has a really good matchup against them. And if I had to pick that series right now, I don't know who I would pick. In my like brain I say Oklahoma City is the best team. They're going to figure it out. But then San Antonio's beaten them four times. Like what, what do we do about that? Right? Like how do we, how do we put those two and two together knowing that. Okay, so Oklahoma City is going to have to become an entirely mid range centric team against San Antonio because of the Victor 1 Benyama factor. Can they stay efficient enough offensively in order to beat that team? I actually don't know that I have an answer to that yet based off of the games that we've seen them play against San Antonio. So that, that's more where I'm at right now is I think San Antonio is on 25 out of 27 and looks unbelievable and they have a good matchup on Oklahoma City, it feels like.
- [88:24]
A
And Wemmy's going to play a lot more minutes with the playoff schedule.
- [88:27]
C
Right?
- [88:28]
A
I think they'd maximize it. Whatever that number is. It's a number north of what he's generally playing because he's. I think it was he still averaging like under 30 for the season. And granted there was a lot of management in there after one of the injuries. I struggle with it every night, every night, because I want to do it. I want to say, hey, you've seen it. They're the only team that makes OKC look confused. They're going to play each other. I'd be shocked. I mean, maybe there's some weird like, you know, this is kind of the other thing with the playoffs. The lessons that were taught every Single year is like, do not fall in love with the max effort regular season teams and then apply that. Like, there's still just this stubborn hope that I kind of hold out for with Denver a little bit because I think fully formed Denver is like a really good team, even though there's defensive and clutch numbers that are just like beneath them. Like, how is this continuing to happen? So it's like, could Denver be in this spot where it prevents this Western Conference finals with San Antonio and OkC? And like, even when you go east, you know, it's so much fun because I have no idea. I have none. I mean, I could just pick Boston like everybody else because we're kind of worried about Detroit. Can the Knicks win three rounds with this? And then you go through all those other teams, it's like, I forget, I don't know who it was. It was. It Haberstro was arguing, I think that Cleveland's going to have the best offense going into the playoffs. You're like, how could you argue that when we have a decade of hardened results that show us that this is different? And also like the maximizing regular season thing. Like, I love the Charlotte story. I think all of us look at Charlotte as like, hey, Charlotte's on. I'm going to make sure I watch a quarter. There's so much fun. But are we seeing a young team give kind of max effort where there's a wake up call come playoffs if they run into another team that's been playing in these games the last couple of years?
- [90:12]
C
Well, and Charlotte probably has to win two games in a play in setting back to back to even get into the playoffs. It feels like they're at 10 right now still even coming into today. So that's tricky. The. The Knicks are still the team. And I know this, like, I know it's silly on some level, but I can't get the Knicks Celtics series out of my head. Like, the Knicks before the Tatum injury were about to go up 30 in that series, if memory serves.
- [90:44]
A
3 1, I think.
- [90:45]
C
3 1, maybe. Yeah. Like they were clearly the best team in that series against the Celtics. So in my head I go, okay. Like, I understand that they're just like kind of a mess, like in the last couple of games or whatever. I think they'd won seven in a row before those last couple of games. And are we just like underrating and overthinking the idea of the Knicks being this really good team that can create shots and has wing defenders who you can put on the opposing team's? Best player. And they have a lot of different matchups for you because they can go really big with Mitch and Cat, or they can go really small if they want to with Cat at the five. Like, they have a lot of different lineup flexibility that presents problems for opposing teams. So I. I'm going to be honest. Like, I think I might take the Knicks to come out of the east right now, which, again, coming off of last week, feels crazy, but I kind of think that's where I'm at.
- [91:41]
A
I don't. I can't get mad at that. I think they'd get killed by OKC or San Antonio.
- [91:46]
C
I totally agree, but I don't think
- [91:49]
A
Boston would get killed by okc.
- [91:53]
C
Yeah, I don't agree with Boston yet. It's hard.
- [91:56]
A
Yeah, that was an alarming series. And you're totally right. They're going to go up 3. 1. They were going to win that series. I mean, even if Tatum stays healthy, I guess you could say maybe Boston wins three in a row. But I don't know, there just seemed to be something about, like, this. Boston is like, hey, their shit's not working. And New York knew it wasn't working. And if you're, like, measuring the confidence of those two teams, I think the Knicks were just sky high going like, hey, these guys aren't that good. Like, we've got this. And I think they had figured it out. And look, I even argue after that Sunday game against the Knicks where the Knicks come back and they're in it, and Cat was such a huge part of that comeback. And then when it comes down to, like, perimeter time, you don't even notice Cat. And that's something where. I can't believe I'm saying this, but, like, I know Cat can be, like, a weird watch, but he's. He's right to be upset. I mean, Alvarado is fun. He gets the steals, and it's all that stuff. He took 10 shots in 17 minutes, and Cat took fucking nine. That should never happen. No, because Jose's probing, he's looking, he's trying to. And I know he's from there, and it's fun and, like, a nice acquisition to bring him off the bench, a little bit of energy, but he is always going to take more shots than he probably should. And, you know, I don't know the staggering of all the different minutes in there, but when you look at the box for the end of the night, I'm like, man, they got away from Cat big time. I'm like, oh, he Only took nine shots. I'm like, let me at Alvarado take. And I'm like 10, 17 minutes in. Granted, one game, but it's not like a new thing.
- [93:21]
C
Well, it's what Oklahoma City does to Cat as well. Like, they have the bodies to throw at him. They can put Chad on him and then have Hartenstein help off. They can put Hartenstein on him and it's just fine. You can put Caruso on him. Exactly right. Like, they just have so many different ways to guard Cat that I think that is why more than anything, I think the Oklahoma City matchup for New York would be a real problem for them. And honestly, I feel the same about San Antonio. Like, I just think San Antonio is a better team than the Knicks at the end of the day. But like, they have a lot of bodies that you can throw at Cat and try to bother him. So it's. Yeah, the east is totally wide open to me. I have no idea. Like, you could tell me that the Hornets make the play in. You could tell me the Hornets losing the first round of the play in tournament. Or you could tell me they go to the second round after beating the Pistons because like Cade Cunningham, everyone's just waving off the fact that he had a collapsed lung and is now, you know, probably not able to condition would be my guess when you have a collapsed lung. Sorry, I'm not a lungsman. So like, I'm not totally sure what's going on there with lungs, but it feels like a thing where you can't really get into condition, especially having to play 40 minutes a game like Kate Cunningham does. In order for the Pistons to like really win at a high level in the playoffs feels. Feels complicated for the Pistons, but like, it just speaks to the wildness that is going to be the Eastern Conference.
- [94:47]
A
You could check out Sam Vicini's work on the athletic, check out all of his draft profiles. It is an immense amount of work. It's so much fun to get yourself lost. Grab the Mrs. Plan your weekend around it. And of course his podcast and YouTube page, Game Theory. Thanks, Sam.
- [95:02]
C
Thanks Ryan. Appreciate it, man.
- [95:05]
A
Tastytrade has a suite of probability tools so you can make smarter picks for your portfolio. Though it can't help you fill out your NCAA bracket, you can trade stocks, options, futures and more all in one platform. Tastytrade offers low commissions, including zero commission on stocks, so you can keep more of what you earn. The platform is packed with trading features like backtesting, which lets you simulate trading strategies using 10 plus years of data so you can test your ideas about potential Cinderella stocks. Active traders can use features like Ladder Trading Mode, One Click Trading, and Smart Order Tracking to manage their positions during crunch time. If you want to learn to trade or discover new strategies, Tastytrade has dozens of educational courses you can access for free with your account. Get live stellar support from Tastytrade's deep Bench of experienced trade desk reps during trading hours. Visit tastytrade.com barstool today. Tastytrade, Inc. Is a registered broker, dealer and member of FINRA, NFA and SIPC. You want details? Buy I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all kids. I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life Advice the email address lifeadvice rrmail.com Kyle is here. Ceruti will not be here to hear both praise and scorn, but I think we've moved past the baby items thing. But we had one email that just said straight up I love Ceruti. No additional message.
- [96:37]
D
That was me.
- [96:37]
A
Was it? No, I'm just kidding.
- [96:39]
D
But that's how I feel.
- [96:42]
A
That's good. Was only in the sling for a couple days, probably should be in it a little bit longer. Did have somebody follow up. Are Alex Honnold look alike from a few weeks ago? He actually attached the pictures in here. Yeah you look a little bit like him. Smile is similar too. But he had a question. He goes Just want to say a quick sorry to Ryan if my email inspired him in any way to do weighted pull ups. Those are not for the faint of heart, which Ryan you clearly are not. You are however quite old. End sentence. I'm very sorry if my inspirational gym stats got you too gassed about your body and forgot to take it easy. Get well soon.
- [97:25]
D
Quite old. Is that the medical term?
- [97:31]
A
I didn't know who had won the election of who's in charge of Ryan this year, so it's good to know that he thinks I'm too old for weighted pull ups.
- [97:40]
D
Thanks Alex.
- [97:42]
A
Believe it or not I had done them before I read that email but I wide gripped it went a little too. I didn't warm up enough. I was really feeling it that day. I was really feeling this four week stretch of less days in more weight up or down depending on what the day is. Yeah, it wasn't you man. Don't know what to tell you okay? Newborn. Ruining my adult league team vibes. 5:10, 5:11 on it says tender here. I'm going to guess he meant Tinder. Unless there's a new one called tender.
- [98:22]
D
I wouldn't know. I'm not even going to type it in.
- [98:26]
A
185 only have 205 pounds in plates, so 10 reps of that. Well, I think that's you maximizing your resources. Basketball comp. Old Kyle Korver. I have a problem that I think the three of you are well equipped to answer. Although Suri's not here.
- [98:41]
D
Does seem like this could be one for him.
- [98:43]
A
Yeah, well, whatever. I think we figured it out. I live in a popular Midwest town and a few friends and I play a popular adult league sport in a weekly league. So he doesn't even tell us the sport.
- [98:54]
D
Popular though? Come on.
- [98:56]
A
What's that?
- [98:56]
D
Unless it's pickleball, which is like taking the nation by storm. I'd say it's we're pretty. It's gotta be basketball.
- [99:02]
A
Could be. Although let's continue to read here. We've been playing once a week for a few years are pretty good. But I've never won the championship. But like I said last season, this season I can feel it. We have two teammates, married couple that just had a baby. Maybe it's basketball. It could be volleyball.
- [99:20]
D
Maybe it's bocce ball. I don't know what this is.
- [99:22]
A
Bocce. I'm going to guess it's not bocce, but who knows? Maybe it is. They just had a baby. This has become a vibe problem. Likely just for me. Okay, well that's some good self awareness. Each week it seems like there is more concern about the baby being out too late, weather not being right, et cetera. And it really ruins the vibes while we make a run for a ship. I've heard chip before. Have you heard ship?
- [99:50]
D
No, but it should be if we're being sticklers. But it just. Chip. It's the chip. That's what it is.
- [99:57]
A
Do some words need to not be shortened? Definitely. Perhaps different topic. All right. Before each game the group text is filled with maybe we can't both play or I don't know if we will make it on time. We definitely love them as teammates and have great hangs with them and are pumped that they have a baby. Really? In all other parts of life except for this one.
- [100:19]
D
Super happy for you baby.
- [100:21]
A
Super happy for you. But yeah, love you. But our rotations are messed up. We can easily replace them and still have a Good team, but they want to keep playing as the captain, I feel stressed that each week it's like a puzzle to find out if they can show or if they can even stay the whole game. The problem is they want to keep playing even though I've told them we can get a sub for them. The question is, how do I either get them to bow out or let them know to figure out the baby stuff outside of the group chat. As a single guy without kids, I'll admit I don't fully understand the baby thing, but we were talking about maybe two hours a week. I think the baby would be fine to hang in a stroller and it won't be the end of the world. Well, I don't know. Babies can be a little selfish.
- [101:00]
D
That's a quote.
- [101:01]
A
That's awesome. Am I crazy or is this just how people are with newborns? Or is there simple ways to say, hey, guys, we love you, the baby is cool, but this is a headache trying to figure out what you're going Figure out what you're doing each week. Thanks for the pot.
- [101:19]
D
I think that this can be how people are with newborns. I don't think everyone's like this, but I think that it's totally normal if you run across somebody who is like this, especially if it's their first. The thing that I think sucks about this is this is a rec league, right? It is competitive, but this is a thing you're doing for fun, and this thing is keeping you up nights. And it sounds like you haven't talked with the rest of the team because you're the captain, right? It's your job to figure out who's playing or not. You're like the commissioner. You do the shit that nobody wants to do. And it seems like right now you might be. Or you just feel like you're alone in the frustration of trying to figure out who's getting on the court or field today. So I think you're suffering in silence. I think you're suffering in silence, that's for sure. And I don't know what the best way would be to broaches to the team where you just. You're like, hey, I'm putting my captain hat on and I'm just laying it down.
- [102:10]
A
Yeah. I don't think you were out of control for wanting to know, can you make it all the time? Right. But I think others would listen to this and say, hey, people have a newborn, and some people with newborns, most people would just be like, okay, our life is entirely different I'm always impressed by the people that are just like, I'm going to still go on vacations and do stuff and golf.
- [102:35]
D
Yeah, I'm not leaving my golf league.
- [102:36]
A
Right, Exactly. Yeah, right. I have some friends again. I've talked about this before. There's one group that just goes, I've now given up on life. And then the other group that is like, I will continue to live life the way I need to live it. Who's to say what's right? I can tell you which group is happier, but. With this. Could you go Adam Silver on him? Like, hey, new rule. If you miss three games or you're late to a fourth, you're no longer eligible for postseason awards. But in this case, you're just not eligible to be on the team anymore. You'd have to think probably the guy. You go to the guy and say, hey, look like it might be a little weird. I love that you had a kid, but, I mean, do they expect to just jam you up all the time?
- [103:30]
D
Maybe this is like a new. This is a new corner of their life that they, you know, they're clearly not navigating it super well. And the problem is, this means way more to this guy who's, like, banking on a chip this year. He's thinking about the design for the shirts he's going to make. And these people are like, we still want to find a way to, like, you know, get out of the house. Like, this is really good for us. That's probably a little bit how they're feeling. And this one guy's like, this is all I have. This is all I think about. And they're just on two different wavelengths with, I think, the importance of this whole thing. But they want to keep it for, like, you know, a nice life balance. And this guy's like, I can't. I'm up nights thinking about this. So it's just very different emotions.
- [104:12]
A
I think I can tell you what this guy's like. Whenever he hears about a player missing a game because of a potential birth of a child. He's like, hey, it's the playoffs. You know, he's at home watching. Because I still want that to happen. Like the NFC title game where they. The quarterback, it's like, oh, I'm going to leave as soon as I find out. Because I remember arguing with a friend's wife about this. And I was like, there exists a game where the quarterback can't leave. And she was like, you're the worst. And I go, I'm just saying what so many other people are saying. I also wonder too, like, would you have like an imagine Belichick? It's like, okay, as soon as we find out, we tell the sideline. And then it goes up to Belichick. It's like, hey, he just kills it. Starting quarterbacks wife is now expecting a coach. I'd be like, all right, don't tell anyone else. Yeah, that would probably be pretty fucked up. So, yeah, I mean, you're going to seem insensitive, right, because now they have, like, looked at life as everyone has to adjust to them. But, I mean, look, if you're not. I don't know how serious this league is. You're taking it very serious. Yeah. You don't have a kid. I would feel it out. I would feel it out with whichever of the partners that you're more comfortable with.
- [105:25]
D
You got a first mate there that you could run it by.
- [105:29]
A
Just say, hey, can I talk to you about this? Is there any way. I need some stability. I need to know if you're going to be here now. You might be completely overreacting. And it's like, we actually always have enough numbers and we're fine and we're not even the best players. So are you freaking out about some disruption? That's not really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Because I think there's an argument to be made on the other side. Like, if it's like, so you want to stay on the team, but you want it to be like day to day for you all of the time. I would actually, like, just focus on that, not the baby part of it, even though that's directly related to it.
- [106:03]
D
Yeah. What if you. If you're setting the lineups, like, do you actually have that kind of power or do they just need to have one guy on the signup sheet that gets the emails, you know, because if you are setting the lineups, could you actually, when they are there, like, put them. Put them out there less, and if they mention something, just be like, man, I just. I just got to go with what. What I know is going to be consistent. You could do that in a way where you're not like approaching anyone or saying anything outright. You just do it through your actions on the days that you do have enough people. Unless there's no subs in this league, which, you know, for rec leagues, there probably aren't many.
- [106:36]
A
Is there a way you could have a game be forfeited? So it's tough at night, but it sets the standard. Moving Forward you go, hey, we had a forfeit. You guys couldn't make it. We had a forfeit. We need a new approach. We have to change our team culture. Psyched. You had a kid. Congratulations. But give me your shirt.
- [106:59]
D
I think that was good. There's a couple good routes.
- [107:01]
A
You can go there. Some solid advice, please stop sending in your fixing, tanking emails. I don't even care if they're brilliant. I can't handle them anymore. That's not what this venue is for. That's NBA mailbagrmail.com which is, unfortunately, I think right now, 90% fixing, tanking. We did have a housekeeping question here. 5, 7, 5, 8 and a good day. 185. Bench. 285. Squat. 375. Deadlift. 405. I'll be going to Barcelona for a few days coming up this week and then Porto Solo for a few days after North Portugal. So, Ryan, I need you to drop the knowledge bomb so I can live vicariously through you in lifetime. I don't know that it's going to be coming up. Were we just going to drop it next week before the playoffs?
- [107:47]
D
I'm just. I'm beholden to whatever you're doing. I mean, the wind is blowing a bunch of different directions with this, so I'll be ready for whatever you want to do. You're in charge.
- [107:55]
A
It's a long one. It's over two hours, right? It's got to be.
- [107:58]
D
Yeah, it's already. Yeah, but without that.
- [108:00]
C
Yes.
- [108:01]
A
So it's two. Two. It's two and a half.
- [108:03]
D
Yeah, probably.
- [108:07]
A
Ceru always likes to throw like a life advice on, so it still does. All right. I think it ruins the artistic.
- [108:12]
D
No, you can't.
- [108:13]
A
You can't. You can't do that to Portugal. I think we'll just release it as a bonus extra thing because the longer I wait, then we get into the NBA playoffs. Like there was an argument to just have it be this summer when I have a bit of a sabbatical, but I think we should just drop it next week. So maybe it's going to work out for this guy. All right.
- [108:33]
D
Next week maybe change that on the whiteboard.
- [108:35]
A
Would you ever tell me if you thought one sucked?
- [108:39]
D
For this? No, definitely not. For this.
- [108:41]
A
Even if you thought it sucked? Yeah.
- [108:42]
D
For this type of. This venue, this bonus. No way. No. Because I also don't want to discourage you from doing it. One that's going to be awesome if you ever just take on the Irish Islands. Done. I don't never want to discourage something like that. Turkey. I don't know. Something interesting.
- [109:01]
A
I'd like to drive Baja California, but I don't know. I mean, it depends on what you want to read. Yeah, but then you go to Europe and it's like, oh, it's dangerous in America. You're like, well, what are you talking about? Where are you vacationing? Like, well, no one vacations there, so you're good. So, yeah, maybe that just drops next week. We're also doing the fantasy draft, the 17th annual meeting.
- [109:28]
C
Okay.
- [109:28]
A
Yeah, let's get that one ready. I like to watch the prospects play for a week or so, you know, see what kind of seasoning they have.
- [109:34]
D
You promise you're not going to make me listen to that one, right? I love getting the travel pods before everyone else. But that, that one, the last time you were like, dude, please don't listen to it. Just, just mix it.
- [109:44]
A
I'm like, great, okay, no pickups, just post it. No one should have to listen to this. But yeah, I'm going to do it again. Who cares? All right, let's see. Making friends as an adult. What's up guys? 28, six foot, 182 bench 225, two and a half reps. All right, man. Ran a 237 marathon a few weeks ago. Dude, that is. We don't even need Oregon for that. That's incredible. Player comp. Shannon Brown without the dunking. Shannon Brown. I'll try to keep this short, but I just moved to Boston, Beacon Hill, a few months ago. So far I've had a hard time making new friends to hang out with. My job is fully remote and I'm not exactly sure how to go up to another guy to ask to be friends in a non creepy way. What would your go to move be if you moved to a city and didn't know another person? Well, you picked one of the worst cities ever to meet dudes, so there's that problem. Get ready to learn alone, buddy. I don't know what to tell you. The Boston, going up to another guy.
- [110:46]
D
There's no advice.
- [110:48]
A
I don't think there is. I really don't think there is. There has to be some sort of app, friendship app. I just think that maybe that's how, you know what I mean, get on CNBC and I'm the CEO and like we found a market inefficiency where I've got a vest on it says Bain Capital on it. I'm just like loosely beloved. Took on this much funding and now on paper, I'm worth all this much money. And then we're also thinking about turning this into tech and even direct to consumer. Say all these fucking things and uptalk at the end of it. And then people ask 24 months later, what happened to that guy's company? And be like,
- [111:26]
D
I think you would need the best corporate lawyer in the world to start a company like that. Anything that's about anyone connecting with anyone, whether it's about selling stuff or helping stuff, especially we're just talking friendship. I mean, this is the. I'm using it in a different sense. But that thing would find a way to get perverted so quickly. The friendship app.
- [111:45]
A
I don't. I'm not sure I know you have
- [111:47]
D
to do, but there's.
- [111:48]
A
Maybe I'm the right person for it. Maybe I'm the right. Like, maybe I'm the face of this company where it's like, we don't want nerds on it.
- [111:54]
D
What about creeps? Creeps masquerade as non creeps.
- [111:57]
A
Creeps. Nerds are out. Don't even want to be streamlined. Don't even bother.
- [112:08]
D
Yeah, I've been having trouble with that a little bit because I put a lot of investment into a couple guys from back in the day. I'm not changing my phrasing. I'll stand by it. Put a lot of investment in a couple of my guy friends and not so much. There's a bunch of acquaintances running around that I'm not really sure I'm. I'm up for the task of like, hey, what do you think about, you know, a couple weeks from now or whatever. Maybe if I'm hurting for golf buddies, I'll. I'll, I'll dip into that. Well, but it's been a little. It's been different. It's been like two of my guys are busy. I'm just kind of down to. Down to none. So. It's certainly something I'm struggling with too. I mean, I'm a friendly enough guy and I've. I've made acquaintance. I have some phone numbers. Nothing I'm really going to act on. Comes to hanging out with you.
- [112:54]
A
Yeah, but you're a friendly, approachable guy. If somebody, if the world had more Kyle's, we'd all be better off. Because if somebody met you at a little spot around Beacon Hill, which used to call. I think it was called Hortown back in the day. Yeah. I was walking around there, I was looking up something and referencing. And it was something Hill, I think Horetown. It's probably not Totally accurate. But it was basically known as Hooker Hill. And it's a lot nicer. It's a lot nicer now. They've spruced the thing up the last few hundred years. But I think I'd feel like a huge loser going, like, we just wanted guys to meet other guys. Like, hey, do you lift things up and put them down? So do I. Could it be like a screening for it? Like a Raya screening for dudes? There's probably already something out there. Honestly, my whole rant was I saw a CEO of one of these dating things a bunch of years ago on cnbc and all I could think of was I was like, this company's doomed
- [114:00]
D
just by the look of them.
- [114:02]
A
Yeah, basically. Yeah. So we don't have any advice. I'm sorry, I have none. You know, if you have a couple, how you met another guy, how I met your buddy. CBS Fall.
- [114:18]
D
Yeah, I mean, there probably are a couple ways. You just have to put yourself in like a weird situation to get there. Like thinking, like, just try to fill it. Fill in with, you know, on the golf course, just like with a group of three and you're in there, like, you have to put yourself into that situation.
- [114:33]
A
Granite licks by yourself.
- [114:34]
D
Just hang around the putting green over there and just, you know, see if there's any. See if there's like standby for golf, you know, my old way is just sit in bars. But, like, you know, the clientele may not be up to your standards, might
- [114:48]
A
not be lifelong friends, might not be the guys.
- [114:51]
D
Especially if you're there at 3pm so you have to hang around these weird locations to try to have a meaningful experience with someone. But other than that, I don't know how you break in.
- [115:01]
A
I love to just go to the golf course all the time, be like, hey, do you mind if we get to put you with this threesome? Yeah, I'd love to. How are they dressed? Are they in shape? Yeah, I run, you know, so there's that. When I go to Alondra to play by myself, I usually play with like three Korean.
- [115:17]
D
Oh, yeah.
- [115:18]
A
People aged 78 or older.
- [115:21]
D
Yeah. Is that a morning morning or early afternoon weekdays?
- [115:25]
A
It's a very Asian course. That's why I don't think I'll ever get a membership. But we get along great every single time. We don't talk a lot at all. Usually almost nothing is said, but we just enjoy the sport.
- [115:41]
D
I had a couple trying to think we have a couple, like at Roosevelt, my course, that we would play over there. Like some days a guy would drop out and I told you, Roosevelt for some reason decided they're doing five sums. They just shoved it. Like a lot of times they'll let you go out with four, but if there's anyone hanging around that standby area, they throw them in. And we've had a couple times where in the ninth hold they're like, hey, take your number. And you know, I was flush with friends at that point, so I was like, okay, never going to call. But like I'm recognizing now that dudes were doing that.
- [116:11]
A
Yeah, it's tough when you got as many friends as you did back in the day. It's tough to manage all that. All right, can we do a midlife crisis in six minutes? Yeah, I think we can. Six foot, £200, 295 bench, working for three all time leading scorer for county in hoops and top 10 all time state passing at QB. We get a real athlete on our hands here. All time leading scorer, not just for the school, but the county. Should get a shirt made. Have a huge life altering decision. I can't even believe you have any issues, man. No. Although maybe you feel like you peaked. All right, so decision to make. I'm stuck. Quick backstory. Live in Indiana my whole life. Moved to Gainesville, Florida for college. Absolutely love the place. Always hold a special place in my heart. Met great people, some of my best friends. Found myself and who I was and enjoyed my life. Florida, we visiting beaches made me realize I wanted to live near the beach. And it's when I'm happiest. Hey man.
- [117:04]
C
Here.
- [117:04]
A
Yeah, I'm 23, school ends. I feel obligated and pull to move back home because of family and friends. Always been big about family guy especially. There you go. Right Kyle? Especially with existential crisis of parents and grandparents getting old, missing time with brother. The weather is ass cheeks for six months of the year. After three years, I'm now considering moving back. I'm freshly 26, I have one of my best bros in Fort Myers and he wants me to come down and live with him in his apartment so we can split the place. He even has pulled to get me a job that could turn into a really lucrative career and he's already doing it. Literally the only thing keeping here is my family. My brother is freshly married and has his first kid on the way due in August. Selfishly, through a huge lump in my plan, I want to be around for the kid. But do the first couple years matter too much for a newborn? Unless you have a Volleyball league? Probably not. Am I an asshole? If I decide to move, should I stay for family? What happens if I find my wife and I have kids 900 miles away from my family? Seeing them, I live 2 hours from my parents as it is now, and 15 minutes from my brother. Do I move and live my life where and how I want, or do I suck it up and stay for them? And growing old with family, even if I went two, three years and came back when I wanted to settle down, I have a midlife crisis every single fucking day, it seems like. Let me know, please. Love the show, boys. Thank you. All right, deep breath, man.
- [118:27]
D
Remember when we were saying, when you're younger, things feel like a way bigger deal? I mean, this is the epitome of that. Also, babies will still be babies in the summertime.
- [118:35]
A
Dude,
- [118:37]
D
that's totally true right there. As long as this guy that is pitching you on, come here, be my best friend in Fort Myers or whatever, as long as it's kind of real. And you could, you know, he's not like, yeah, we'll get you set up with a job. And he's not just saying it because it would be so sick to have you as a roommate. Like, if you have. If you had a real. I mean, dudes really, like, tell you they have way more pulled than they do at a company. Until it's time to, you know, send in some apps, they're like, well, you know, hold on. I just. I do have a new manager. You know, we've got to feel each other out. Like, there's. It's rarely ever 100% accurate when your buddy's talking about how much influence he has that is at his spot. But I'd say. I'd say you go for this. I mean, apart from TSA sucking recently, I mean, there's really nothing wrong with taking planes to get back to where you are. Your parents are already two hours away. Your brother's starting a family. Like, no matter how close you guys are, there's just going to be less time anyway. And you've got all the. Everything's lining up for you to go down there. As long as that's real, I'd say 26. Go for it. If you waited three years and came back, you still wouldn't be 30. I'd say, go for it.
- [119:37]
A
Yeah, I'm big, big, big on you just going down and doing this now. Because the best thing is you can then go home again if you're feeling like you're missing all the things you prioritize you prioritize going back to your family at a really young age. Some people do it. I think it's great. Realistically, if your parents live two hours away, how many times are you even seeing them a year? And, yeah, I'd say the first couple years of a kid being born, you're not making a ton of connection with that kid. So I think it's kind of cool. Like, sometimes I miss, you know, I miss my nieces and nephews a little bit. I'm like, hey, this is really great.
- [120:13]
D
Yeah, you do.
- [120:13]
A
Then it's like, is it so great that I want to live on Martha's Vineyard in the winter? Like, hey, we just FaceTime a bunch, you know? So, look, I would say move, but Kyle's 100% right. Do some advanced scouting on the job. Advanced scouting on your buddy. Because sometimes buddies can get really, really
- [120:34]
D
like, we're going to take over the world together.
- [120:37]
A
Yeah. It's almost like a timeshare friendship. It's like, dude, if you come down, I can, like, set up all this stuff, and then you get down there and you're like, why am I sitting down in front of a whiteboard? All right, sounds good. That'll do it for the show today, thanks to Kyle. We're still going to thank Ceruti. Tom Kevin Ryan Rossillo show First tool sports.