← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
The Pistons’ Big Problem, Warriors Exec Revisits Drafting Steph & Finding Another Star, Plus Rockets GM Rafael Stone
01:38:40
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Hey Priscilla listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. In sports, winning takes more than talent. It takes strength, reliability and the drive to go the distance. Sound familiar? That's the same DNA you'll find in a Chevy Silverado. As capable and dependable as a winning team, Chevy Silverado shows up and gets the job done. It won't flinch when the pressure's on. It doesn't take plays off when it comes to trucks. Chevy Silverado is football guy approved. To learn more About Silverado, visit chevy.com. The Ryan Rosilla show is presented by DraftKings. We have assistant GM of the Warriors, Larry Harris on a future built around Steph. We have the General manager of the Houston Rockets, Raphael Stone, who is going to talk about his to do list this off season for Rocket season, which again, I think they had all said collectively was disappointing at the end. Disappointing if you're a Pistons fan. Thrilled if you are harden and you enjoy free throws. I couldn't help myself. Once again, all right, life Advice Preakness Week is here though, and one of the biggest events of the year, the middle jewel of the Triple Crown. And when it comes to betting on the 151st Preakness Stakes, DraftKings is your home for horse racing. Suit up for Baltimore and bring the race day energy. Bold colors, standout hats and all. Because when those gates open, it's not just a race, it's the best sweat in sports. And it's not over till it's over. Picking your horses, Half the fun. Name jockey, number, colors. Everyone's got a reason. All the odds, all the races, and the best promos with the same DraftKings experience you know and love. Right now, DraftKings has brought back their King of the Track promotion. All DraftKings customers can opt in the bet $5 or more on a horse to win Preakness. If your pick crosses the finish line first, you'll win a share of $151,000 prize pool who will reign supreme. Download the DK Horse Racing app and use the Code Ryan. That's Code Ryan. R Y e N on DK Horse bet $5 or more on a horse to win the 151st Preakness Stakes for your Shot at a piece of $151,000 only on DraftKings. The crown is yours.
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A lot of basketball to get to we'll get to life advice, obviously, a little bit later. Live from our Chicago Combine studio, the last day here, but we start with Game 5. The Cavs come back down 15 in the first half to win it in overtime and now take a 32 series lead against Detroit. We'll get to Detroit's offense, Cade's night, Harden's night, but really the headline if it ends up going Cleveland's way and they move on to the Eastern Conference Finals, the headline for at least Detroit is that Jalen Duran is killing this Pistons team. He has gotten worse basically every single game. I talked about his game one performance where he was 4 11. I said don't let that get in the way of the fact that this guy was a beast in some huge spots. He had 11 and 12, but the 12 rebounds matched what Evan Moby and Jared Allen were doing as far as the total. And now if you look at like five straight games, it's been getting worse every single time. He's also declining minutes in five straight games and this series has kind of turned. I mean there's a bunch of different things you could point to, but I think the Mobley primary assignment being on a Sar Thompson, something we talked about on a 10 good minutes on Tuesday for the show that now deciding like hey, this Harden Asar thing is just done and that it's Mobley on a saar and now it's going to make everything so much tougher because Asar is just now on the ignore list. Even if he has the ball, even if he gets a couple looks, I'd say there was a couple of plays in Game four where he got the ball and he was hesitant to even do anything with it once he was close. So I think the whole things messed up a sar, which then is freed up Mobley and then it's made it even worse for Duran. So I'm somewhat sympathetic to it because I mean we could look at and say hey look, he's 22 years old, he's probably going to be all NBA. Who knows what that extension is going to look like. This is not a Jalen Duran bigger picture examination. But for this series and going back to the Orlando series where it's like Wendell Carter is going to outplay you like this many games. And that was kind of like the litmus test for the Magic Pistons series until Franz was hurt was who won the Duran Wendell matchup. And to this point, I do think his game one is better than the box score. We'll. We'll say historically, but 2, 3, 4 and 5. And last night was a fucking disaster. So let's go through some of this because it led to B ball Paul Reed playing the entire fourth quarter and all five minutes of overtime. Detroit gets up 15 in the first half. It's 60:52 at the half. Hey, good news, right? You're up eight. You're at home hoping to take a three, two series lead. There was a very alarming stat that was like, you know what this is? This might be bad for Detroit. They were up 20 points to two points on points off of turnovers, a 20 to two advantage, and you're only up eight. So that was alarming because I don't know what was going on with Cleveland specifically. Harden on some of the entry passes early where you're like, hey, you know it's the playoffs, right? Man, see the logos, see the broadcast, the national guys like, this is not summer league. These entry passes are terrible. But that's. That's a different topic altogether. I don't think the refs did the Pistons any favor in this game. I was looking at it, and there was 17 team fouls on Detroit, eight on Cleveland. It was a very physical game. So why did it favor them? Why did it favor the Cavs so much? It's because all the officials last night decided to let James Harden embarrass the fuck out of him for two and a half hours. And look, I know you've all heard it before, but I'm not going to stop doing it. I'm not going to stop doing it when these guys are the best officials in the world and they're going to let somebody do this to him. He had eight fouls drawn last night. Six were total bullshit. I'd say two. There was one drive. I'll give it to him. And then of course, they had to foul him after he'd missed the free throw, but Cade forgot to box him out. Or they just figured there's no way Harden's actually going to go after his own rebound. And he kind of didn't. And the ball bounced right back to. But they were down 15, and Harden gets a rip through and then gets three free throws. You want to Call the foul. Fine. I don't know why it wouldn't be on the floor. Then he decides on a drive that he's going to hook into the player. He gets the call. He then gets a call on. I think it's Lavert that he switches into. It's the left side. It's the one that Bickerstaff challenged. He shoves the defender away from him and then goes Philip Seymour Hoffman, sweaty chest right into his grill with the way that he lands and gets the end one. They challenge it, they also lose the challenge. He bends in half against Tobias Harris and gets the call. And then you could see that he went to go ahead and do it again when he got stuck. Cause if it's four seconds left in the shot clock and you know he doesn't have enough time or he doesn't think he can get past the defender or he's not close enough to the defender to hook his arms and get some other kind of call. He tried to bend again and flails into the player defensively and then asks for the challenge. And then they lost that challenge, which was a horrible challenge by Atkinson. And the funny thing about that sequence of him bending over like bending in half to try to get the foul is that there was another play where he didn't have enough energy to try it again. So he just jumped late in the shot clock to take a three and he basically went straight up and down. He had another play where he smashed into a SAR Thompson where it was the knee to knee contact. He drove right into his chest and throat and then smashed into his knee. And you're like, what's going on with this play? And then there was a play on the inbounds where they were trying to trap and he was stuck. And he basically just jumped out of bounds but rubbed his arms up against the defender. I counted six in the Thompson thing. That wasn't a call. He had 30 points. Congratulations. All right. Cade on offense. He took a ton of shots. His turnovers are a mess. I don't know how you let Streuss pick your pocket. That's way too lax in that spot. Coming off the Game 3 disaster on those three straight turnovers. He's had everything else. Bigger picture. I think we all love Cade now. Yay. Hooray, Cade. If you replaced Cade with this team with an average point guard, I don't even know if they're in the fucking plan. All right, so we love Cade. Stop turning the ball over as carelessly as you are. We expect it with James, we don't expect it with you. So cade hits an ISO 3 against Harden. It's 6:44 left in the game. Pistons were up nine with two and a half minutes ago in this game. His next shot is a floater where he's got a second defender, Mobley, lurking on this floater. It was a decent look and it didn't look like he had it great out of his hands. He misses that one at 5:49 left in regulation. There's another play where there's an inverted ball screen three and a half minutes later where it ends up with Steph or excuse me, a step back. Not Steph, he's not on the Pistons. A step back jumper left baseline against a double team. It's a really, really tough shot and he kind of dribbles himself into it because of the doubles, these hard doubles that we saw to close this game where all of Detroit's looks just weren't that good. But the other problem is that like cade goes from 27 shots for the entire game to the most important stretch. He's not shooting the ball because he's getting doubled so much. And yet I'm criticizing one of these shots just because they say, hey, that's a really difficult attempt on that. Harris had a wide open three. I think there was another Jenkins three where they had like two good looks over this entire stretch. But the rest of the looks just weren't even that good. Even though there's a full blown hardcore, we are selling out defensively to double team Cade Cunningham every single time. Over time they run a ghost screen to try to keep the second defender away from Cade and that ends up single coverage against Streuss, they brought him up off the ball. And then on this drive, which was a miss, Mitchell stayed actually with Dennis Jenkins, which I'm assuming was wrong because they would have wanted him to come down and help on Kate on the drive. They didn't. Didn't matter. He ended up missing it. And then with 27 seconds left, that was the inbounds at 105, 109, where they got decayed. His foot was on the line as a two pointer. So the point of this is, is that from 5:49 to 27 seconds left in overtime, all right, we're talking basically 10 minutes of game action. Cade took two shots and he missed all of them until the foot on the line. And from the three that he hit against Harden from 6:44. So it's not even about the misses, it's about the lack of attempts. But the lack of attempts are there because everyone knows this. With this Detroit team and Duncan Robinson's out as well. Last night they played Sasser real minutes. You know, the Levert thing can be a complete disaster. I was even shocked he was that good offensively the other night. Defensively he's a liability. But there's nothing about this team once the cade thing happens where it's going to be good and then you can't even play Durant. That's how bad it was. And this is an all time stat from last night. B ball Paul. Paul Reed, their third string center played zero minutes in the first, second or third quarter. He played the entire 12 minutes of the fourth quarter and all five minutes of overtime. So you are a 60 win one seed team at home in game five, a two two series in the second round of the NBA playoffs. And because we still, and I pointed out constantly when I watch this team, you still don't really know what's going to work or what isn't going to work, that you're playing your third string center. Not even stuff you're playing your third string center. Who then is left to drive against Mobley as an undersized. He's basically a power forward. So those, once those guys are ready for it, it's a mess. I mean I credit his effort. He had a huge offensive rebound that I thought might have been like one of the biggest plays in the entire game, but it wasn't. And all this stuff has made Mobley's life way easier because we see when Detroit traps on the ball, Mobley gets to play four on three. He had eight assists last night and three or four of those are to Jared Allen because Jared Allen's in the Duncan dunker spot as the defense comes up to try to make up for the fact that they're outnumbered. And then Mobley has the ball and Mobley's throwing it, which I think was by design, is hey, if you're catching it here in four on three behind the double team on the ball handler, your life is going to be easy because Duran's a fucking mess and Allen's dealing with him anyway. And you now can find one of the shooters, whether it's Merrill or whether it's Streuss. And Streuss was phenomenal last night on some of these spots. And probably the biggest shot of the entire game was off of Mobley finding Mitchell in the corner. Mitchell Upface gets himself clean and then hits his only three. I think it was his only three of the night because it Was definitely his first one. Yeah, that was the only one. One of eight, but it was the biggest make of the entire game. The Pistons are a weird fucking team, man. You hear it all the time in sports. You get out what you put in. If you're eating right, training right, doing all the little things, you're going to perform better. Everybody knows that. It's the exact same dynamic with your car. You might just pull up, fill up and go, not thinking about what you're actually putting into it. But it turns out it matters a lot. Shelby Power Nitro plus is designed to help remove up to 100% of performance, robbing deposits from your engine. So instead of your car working through all that buildup, it's actually able to perform the way it's supposed to on the road. And that's where you feel it. More power when you need it and more performance every time you drive. If you're putting better fuel in, you're going to get a better drive out of it. Shell V Power Nitro Plus Premium gasoline. More power, more performance in gasoline. Direct injection engine fuel injectors with continuous use of Shelby Power Nitro plus premium gasoline compared to lower octane fuels. Actual effects and benefits may vary according to vehicle type, driving conditions and driving style. See Shell us Slash more for details. Live from the combine. Joining us in our studio here, he is the assistant general manager of the Golden State Warriors. He's been with the franchise since 2008. And it's. It's one of my favorites. It's Larry Harris. What's up?
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It's been a while. You and I in person now. We talk all the time, but. So this is my first time in the. In the combine week. Ryan Marcillo. Den. So for those fans who don't know, this is an exclusive. Man, this is the Taj Mahal. This is unbelievable. I don't know what your budget is. This. This is impressive work.
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Doesn't know what the budget is either. So we'll see what happens when they get.
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Good to be with you.
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Yeah, I'm. I'm excited about this just because you know how much I appreciate the job that you guys have done. Know the run. It feels. I don't want to get off to a bad note, be like this and use it as a past tense thing here. But let's go. Let's go back into the past here. Let's go back. You were with the warriors for like a year or so. You're getting ready for that step draft. I've heard all sorts of different versions of Stories of like, the pick was going to be traded. And. And then it's like name by name comes off. Imagine when Hashim the Beat is announced. You're like, okay, that's pushing one more guy down to us. And then the Timberwolves had their night.
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Michael Heisley. Thank you.
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Yeah, let's go, let's go into, into the draft room. That night on, like, what was. Was Step. Were you like, hey, we hope we get Steph, but we don't know if he's going to be there at 7.
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Yeah, I think that, I think going into it was there was hope that he was there, but we thought he was going to be gone. Like, you know, we figured Minnesota, I mean, that's where we were kind of targeted. I will say that New York was certainly dancing around. I mean, they, they, they clearly were coming strong to get him. There's no doubt about that. We knew that. But, you know, we, we say all the time, we just David Kahn, we thank him often. We wanted to give him one of our rings. We're so happy that he decided that he needed two point guards, but he didn't, he didn't pick the right one. Now I will say Rubio and is good. And I just saw Rubio play in Europe. Still can play. Still can play.
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He was so much fun.
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Unbelievable, right?
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He's different. Not for everyone. You kind of needed a certain roster around him.
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And, and I would say this. It's, you know, with Steph and Rubio, those were the two guys we talked about morning by us. We didn't really talk about Johnny Flynn. And there were, there's been conversations like you were going to move it and do that stuff. That really was it. I will say this being in the room, that was never a conversation. We didn't sidebar and say, hey, you know, we got this opportunity. What do we think? Let's move back. It was going to keep the pick, but when Steph obviously was there, it was easy. It was more like if Steph wasn't there, is it Rubio? But what if Rubio and Steph aren't there? Where are we going? And that was interesting with Don Nelson and Larry Riley at the time, what, what direction they were going to go at. But, you know, Warrior fans could be rest assured that Steph was the target for sure, regardless of the noise, that he wanted to be in New York and didn't want to be in San Francisco. That was never true. But, but that was reported as well. But even if, I mean, Larry Riley would tell you that even if Steph said, you know, San Francisco, I don't know, it wasn't going to derail us or, you know, put us in a position where we were going to move back, like, okay, let's move on from that, because he doesn't want to be here. And that was never the case.
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That final year at Davidson, though, is kind of an interesting evaluation year, because I remember, you know, he has that tournament run the year before, and you're kind of like, God, can this. Can this work? Or is this just kind of like one of these crazy runs where this undersized guy is just this phenomenal shooter? And then again, even if you love him a shooter, I don't know that anybody was saying, hey, I think I'll end up being the best shooter in the history of the sport. And then they felt like his last year there, they let him play point guard to almost show all of you guys as evaluators that he could play point guard. And I would argue, like, it didn't go that well. And I don't know if it was the team around him. I think I remember even watching some of those games being like, why are they.
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Why are they.
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Are they sacrificing the entire year for, like, his. His draft? Like, this just seems weird. But when you're getting to the point where you're like, hey, it's going to be Steph if he's there for us at 7, pending a couple other things happening, where were you on, like, projecting what he would be? And I imagine once you got to know him, too, that probably, I think the.
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The biggest thing for Larry Riley at the time and the staff, Larry in general, was the family dynamic. Dell having played, the relationship, I think that was big. It played into it where we felt like, hey, there's some things, you know, obviously he's going to get bigger and stronger defensively. Was he going to be able to hold up? I mean, certain things like that the shooting was good. I mean, no one in that building ever thought he would be the greatest shooter in the NBA. But we knew that with Del and Sonja and them, just he had the solid family behind him. He had been immersed in the NBA for a number of years. So when he came to us, we felt like it wasn't going to be that big of an adjustment other than getting his body and just maturing and stuff like that. But yet, watching him at Davidson, we never had a conversation that said, well, what is he? A two guard, A point guard? What is he really? It was more like hey, he's going to be able to hold up defensively. What do we think? You know, where do we think we project him to be? And it wasn't going to be. It was. Wasn't difficult to say, well, it's Monte Ellis and him, and how's this going to work? That was never even a conversation. Like, we're going to take the best player and we thought he was the best player on the board.
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Then you get him in. And I'll never forget, like, I'll admit, you know, to the original point is like, I kind of think, you know, I hope it works, but, like, I can already understand, like, because I'll always think of a player going like, how does it work? And then what is the story when it doesn't work? And then I was like, okay, you know, he just wasn't big enough. And it's this nice scor to guard, but he's not really a point. And then I remember watching, like, his rookie year, it was like a couple months in, I was like, okay, he's already maybe the best shooter. His handle is incredible. His instincts, the passing stuff. And yeah, defensively, he's not like a lockdown guy, but it was his instincts, his anticipation of how he would, like, disrupt some play in transition. I'm like, this guy already might be one of the five smartest players in the league. As a rookie, did you guys start, like, walking past each other in the hallway going, all right, this is. Now we're a different franchise because of what this kid is.
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It was. This is different, right? And I think what we didn't realize, two things. First off, you mentioned it, his handle, like, you saw it at Davidson. But when we're there every day, it's like, okay, this is on a string. It's like, okay, so the point guard's not a hard thing. And then, and I say this to everybody who listens to me, it's not many, but those who do listen. His competitive spirit, you, it's the baby face assassin. It's so true. Is that his competitive spirit internally, when you see him today play, and the joy that he plays with, it's the fire inside that drives him. I always say about the great ones, and Steph is one of the great ones. You never want to get him started. You didn't want to get Michael started. You don't want to get Kobe started. You don't want to say it's just let him sleep, but that he finds something to get him going every day. And you could see that in practice. And then in the games, it was like he knew that people were going at him. He's like, okay, all right, that's fine. And he would just smile and go to the other end. And you could tell, like, after games and people talking in the building, like, you know what? This is different. And it wasn't like it was him or Manta. It wasn't that. It was like, these guys can play together, like, they're different. And the shooting was just. I mean, even today, when you go there and watch, it's just imagine. And we're kind of fast forwarding a little bit. But I've always said I. Basically, when I would get home, I talked to my dad, my wife, we're talking around. I go, do you realize that I've just spent a week with three of the greatest shooters on one team? When Katie and Clay and Steph, to watch them afterwards shooting against each other was unbelievable. And just his working at the craft, you know, everybody says, hey, I'm working on my craft every day. The amount of hours before and after practice that Steph put in that Clay, put in that KD did the great ones, that's the work. That's the thing. When you hear all these young players talk about craft, it's my craft. It's what I work at. I've seen it at the highest level. To me, arguably two of the greatest players. And Clay's great, too. But Katie and Steph, they're just wired differently. Different. But the competitive spirit that those two have, off the charts.
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What was the pitch like to Steph once you knew that KD was a possibility?
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Easy. I will say the KD thing was really. Draymond. It was, you know, after we lost, I'll never forget it. You know, we're kind of in the back. You know, it's Bob Myers and Joe Lakob. You know, obviously, Kirk, Kent, Lakob are there. There's some other people in the room. And Joe's like, we gotta get better. You know, what are we going to do? And Bob's like, well, we just lost. And Joe's like, yeah, I know. But then we did, so what are we doing? And I believe Bob goes. You know, he leaves that that night, and I don't know if Bob called me that night or the next day. And he goes, yeah, Draymond's already on it. I go, what do you mean?
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He goes.
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He called kd. We got. We got to get this going. And I'm going, okay. Players getting players. And so fast forward that to you know the Hampton 5, and everybody's like, well, what's that all about? Greatest story ever. Joe, Jerry west, and Bob all go out to the Hamptons and, you know, bring the players, and they get there, and they've got this great presentation. Unbelievable. I mean, you talk about, you know, our, you know, our AV people and everything. They got this thing teed up. I mean, we're ready to sell him. Like, you have no idea what. It's going to be the greatest experience in your life. And they get in there, and Katie looks around and goes, I just really like to talk to the players. And so all that, all the readiness and the Jerry west, you know, we're going to the Kumbaya and we're going to give it to you. And here's the presentation. Never played. And he walks in there, and they kind of leave. And again, I'm, you know, abbreviate what went on. But it basically was those players sitting in there and saying, hey, this is what it looks like. This is what it's about. And Katie's like, I want to play with this group. They're connected. And I will say this. I haven't been around all the other great ones. That is a leader in a franchise, the face of your franchise statues and all stuff. Steph is, to me, arguably one of the greatest hall of Famers ever. That there isn't anybody that doesn't want to play with him. He is the easiest to deal with, the enjoyable to be around. There's a smile every day. There are no bad days with him. And I'm telling. I tell all the fans, it's. We have to. We have to just understand how blessed we are for whatever it is. And. And like Joe and Steve and all them, I get it. It's like, Steph, when the wheels fall off and you don't want to play, are you sure you don't? Is there another year? I mean, because it's the character, it's the person. The talent's there. Everybody's seen it. But the person leaving the building eventually, whenever that happens, is going to be a huge loss.
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Because I. I think sometimes we talk about, like, what you're tasked with. Anybody that's working in a front office that we can, like, overstate and say, like, well, hey, they really need to win. And it's like, well, what do you think they wake up and try to do every day? Like, no one. I don't think there's many people that have your job. They're like, I don't know. And then Something happens. It's like, okay, you know what, let's really start hitting the video. Let's really start seeing if we can add talent to this team. But I can tell that all of you feel like you owe it to Steph in a way that feels unique because, you know, you have this all time run, historic run. I think the 22 championship is like almost extra and now four years removed from that. Like the decline is what is supposed to happen. Like this is what is supposed to happen to great players and these great teams.
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B
Father Time wins, right?
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Yeah, but how, how can you. Well, I'm not expecting you to give me the game plan, but like, how can you prevent that? How can you give Steph another run?
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Well, I, I think it's. It's something we talk about every year, regardless. We. It was even when we were winning the championships. You talk about 22. It's something that Bob Meyer spoke about, something that Mike talks about now. And the biggest thing is it really gets driven from Joe Laco. I mean, he doesn't want to lose and he's got all the resources. He's given us all the resources to be able to do that. And Mike's basically told Steph, we're going to try and win as many games, try to get another championship for you while you're still here. And I think that's very evident. The Jimmy Butler thing was big, and I know people don't want to hear stats and all that stuff, but I think we were like 24 and 19 when he got hurt this year. And from the time we acquired him in February of last year till he got hurt, we had the fourth best record in the league. So we felt like there was something really working there. And you can talk about what ifs, but if Jimmy doesn't get hurt and we do this trade and we got Porzingis and everybody is healthy, you know, I kind of like our chances because I've always said in a playoff series, who has the best player on the floor. Now, the guy may be 37 years old or 36 or 40 or whatever he is. If he's the best player on the floor, you got a chance to win a series. Ask the Lakers that won a series, who's the best player on the floor. Guy who's 41 years old. So our goal, everything that we do, whether it's the draft, whether it's free agency or trades, is to help Steph get better and trying to complement him with players that will help him where. Where we were always able to Add were the Iguodalas and, you know, the Iguodala types, the west and Sean Livingston, right, Where we got people that either freed him up or the gravity that he created then were able to make plays on the backside. And so we're always trying to find other players that we know the gravity is going to come with him. So it's going to be shooting, whether it's Al Horford or is it going to be rim protections, which we thought Porzingis would be, and the shooting. And we've always had the one constant with Draymond, so we just. We're never going to give up on that, on the chance of getting back to the championship while Steph's with us, regardless of what age he's still playing at. And it's just like I said, it starts with Joe and we're just driven for that for Steph. And Steve's in the same mindset. He's like, I want to coach him the best I can and help him in any way I can to get back. Because we feel like we owe it to him. We really do.
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A
How does that impact the draft?
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Well, in the past, it impacted a little bit more.
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It felt like it didn't with some of the picks. It was just like, hey, I mean, I think the Wiseman pick is the one where you.
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B
Yeah, and that was Covid and injuries. Those were more injury based.
- [29:18]
A
And also, I don't know that there was some, like, Shane Battier. Well, I know there wasn't, you know, there wasn't this option at number two where you're like, hey, it's plug and play.
- [29:25]
B
And Yeah, I think at that time, you know, especially was. We knew we had the injuries created a. The scenario that we were in. It wasn't like we were, we were, you know, we were healthy and we just, you know, we didn't make the playoffs and this is where we landed.
- [29:37]
C
It was.
- [29:37]
A
Right. And then you had to pick.
- [29:38]
B
It was more injury based. Right. So for us, it was always taking the best player. But I would say most drafts, two things are. Two things have always come into play leading up to where we're at today. It's a little bit different now moving forward, but leading up today, it was always like, okay, what can we do to help Steph? What kind of player would help? And can this player. Can we. Can we play this player right now? Is he. Is he playable? And if you look at some of our. Of our pre, you know, our recent drafts, we haven't really had first round picks because of movements as we made to win the 22 championship. So we've had second rounds. Well, the second rounders have been older guys who've actually Steve started, has played, you know, Trace Jackson, Davis, or whether it's Quinton Post, I mean, have actually played Will Richards. So we've kind of been, you know, with the mindset of let's take the best player. But can he work in Steve's system and can he help or can he help accentuate some of the things that can help alleviate some of the pressure that then take off for Steph? And so that's always been the mindset up till this year. And as we look now, we have the 11th pick, we're still looking to take the best player, but in the back of our minds, like, okay, is it a system fit for us, the kind of the way we play best player, but also, can this person help Steph out? Is he going to create gravity? Is he a shooter? Is he a guy that can protect the world? So there's a lot of versatility in this draft. I think it's a very deep draft. We feel good at 11. We'd love to have moved up. I'm glad we didn't move back. I probably wouldn't be sitting with you here today. Probably would have fired me, but I'm here. And so I got the okay from Joe that I'm still employed after I kept 11. But I think that, you know, we're excited about this draft and it will be someone that's young, but I think it's. We now know kind of what the formula is for us and. And I think it'll be someone that will be with us a long time and that will be able to. Whether it plays right away, but will be a person that will be able to play alongside Steph at some point.
- [31:32]
A
I am very impressed, though, what the front office has been able to do on the margins with some of these later guys, you know, because I watch a lot of the games and you're missing your big guns. And then you're like, all right, Quinton Post is getting real minutes like, Richard's had some run. I even think some Trace, Jackson, Davis stuff that had happened in the past. It's like, okay, this is an interesting kind of player, but what do you do to try to maximize guys that can fit in? And just even like, getting a guy who can be in a rotation in the second round is a massive win. What do you think it is about it?
- [32:01]
B
Well, I think two things. I think first, Steve gives A lot of leeway to those kinds of guys, people that have a high iq, people that kind of fit the way he sees the game to be played. And that's why it's kind of easier to pick older. Some older guys, some more established guys, they know who they kind of are, they know their lane, they need to stay in. They're not really trying to prove anything like a 19 or 18 or 20 year old, or 18 become a 19 or 20 year old. So those what you would call plug and play guys they've had been given the opportunity because Steve trusts them, their IQ is good enough. You know, injuries have come about, you know, where, hey, we want to play this guy. And I think Steve takes the first, you know, 20 or 30 games to kind of tinker with what's going on there. You know, our team as well as anybody, probably better than most, is, you know, playing 12 or 13 guys a night is not uncommon for Steve. Right.
- [32:51]
A
It was unbelievable. I mean, I didn't even mention Guy, who I go like, hey, like, this guy's going to play in the league a long time. But at the same time he's tasked with like, hey, it's two minutes left, tie game, you have the ball.
- [33:01]
B
Yeah, well, with Guy. But that process was a little bit different because we took him, you know, he didn't play his first, you know, he's in. He was in Santa Cruz. So he really wasn't even our contract, it was kind of a draft and stash, and we knew that. And then we kind of built him through the player development. But once he got on four, Steve's like, you can kind of help me do some cutting and some rebounding and you play hard and like, you know, eight minutes here, 10 minutes here. And then all of a sudden, now he's starting.
- [33:25]
A
When I get a player wrong, it haunts me and I have nothing on the line.
- [33:29]
B
You've never admitted to me that you got a player wrong. So this is a first.
- [33:34]
A
Yeah, well, I would say like three years later, I'll be like, I was wrong for three years. But now, now you can see the vision of why I like this player. I didn't like this player.
- [33:41]
B
I think it's one of those, like, I can't talk about him yet because he may get better. And then I wasn't wrong.
- [33:45]
A
Yeah, there's always that too. There's that. But when it happens to you, which is going to happen and you've been doing it as long as you've been doing it, do you scout yourself? Do you take yourself through the process of like, how did I get this player wrong? Because I imagine sometimes too, it's like, hey, we got the guy in the building. And we knew immediately, like, wait a minute, this isn't. This isn't the kind of guy. So take me through that.
- [34:06]
D
Yeah.
- [34:06]
B
I mean, perfect example. I mean, one of the things we do as a staff, we call it look back, we usually take probably the four or five years. So this just here recently we did the 2020 draft, which James Wiseman talked about, all the, all the. The data points and all the inputs that we had. And did we get it right? Did we get it wrong? Should we have taken someone else? Were there some red flags? Did we ignore some things? Who was involved? And Covid was an issue for a lot of teams.
- [34:34]
A
We played three games.
- [34:35]
B
Right. That as well. So we, we, you know, so we went back to the high school stuff in the aau.
- [34:40]
A
Right.
- [34:41]
B
But I think as we look back upon it, I think when you do stuff, look back and we're not unique. I don't think we're the only organization that does it. But to your point is we. We try to put. Have we gotten better in the process? What was our process back then? And when we looked back at that, there were some things that we kind of said, well, we think we can teach that. We think we can mold that. And he hasn't played a lot, but all the instances that he didn't play were. Were out of his control. It wasn't like, you know, he. He didn't earn any minutes or he was injured or, you know, he was. Just went ready. He was too raw. But as we look back upon it was like, you know, what. Yes, we missed. No, we did. But what. Everything that was available to us and what we thought we were making the right decision at the time was the right decision. But now that you look back upon it, we're like, no, it wasn't. We. What would we have done differently? Well, now you look back at the draft and you redraft, which everybody does is like. And we talked about it. It's like Halliburton went where he was. And Denny, you know, there's guys. And so Patrick Williams was moved up. Would we have taken four where we were putting. So where we have taken Patrick Williams, where we have taken all these guys. And so we went back and looked. Did we like. Denny, did we actually like Halliburton? And. And so yes, we did, but we didn't think that it was enough to take it too. You Know, and so it's a. It's a self evaluation. I do it every year myself just to. To say, hey, is the process we're doing right? I think, Ryan, for most assistant GMs, GMs, people on the front office side, I think you need to take a four or five years. You need to wait to see is it a success or is it a failure to do it every year and go, hey, you know what did I get Cooper flag right? Or, you know, yeah, or where did. Or was, you know, did we have Knipple at 4? You know, why did he pop? And why is he, you know, why is he better than we thought? Did we have him at 8 or what was our board looking like? And so I think that's where you start building some of the data and some. You're looking back and saying, hey, where did I miss? Would that guy have worked in our system or not? There's some players that just. They were drafted high, that probably the way we were structured was not going to work for Steve and his system and where we were, because we weren't ready to give him the ball and go do his thing.
- [36:57]
A
Because I always feel like, because of Steph's gravity, it's like, hey, any one of you, if you just understand this, like, you're gonna have a really easy go of it. But the other side of it is that. But if you're, if you're making all these mistakes while we're trying to compete for championships, the leash is just going to be like, if Kaminga had come into a bad team, he's probably scoring a ton. We still don't know if he's necessarily that good, right? Then he's getting the contract that he wants and, you know, like, the saga that went on with him forever, like, it went from, hey, you can really benefit from this, but then at the same time, you're also going to be penalized in a way that's going to be different.
- [37:30]
B
Yeah, I think the biggest thing, Ryan, for us is, especially when you. When you talk about those two players in particular in James and in jk, is that we were, as we talked about earlier, is we're trying to win championships. And Steve realized what players can help me on my roster to get there, and these two young guys, not. Not yet. And so the development path for them was a lot different than, say, a Will Richard today, who's a little more mature, a little bit older, and, like, I can trust him in a game. And so we. Steve didn't feel like, hey, I Don't. I just don't. I don't have enough of a rope to give you to learn. Like, if you went to, at that time, Charlotte, one of the teams that were, you know, that weren't winning as many games as we were, where if he had gone to one of those teams, you know, he would have played 30, 35 minutes a night and he's getting the opportunity. And so it's a little bit of you're going for it in a championship and yet you'd like to develop these young guys because, you know, you heard the bridge. You know, Joe had talked about, we have this bridge group. And, you know, in theory it looked like it could be that way, but the bridge couldn't be developed because we didn't have. Steve didn't feel like he had enough of a rope to bring those two guys along and still try to win A championship in 22.
- [38:40]
A
The difference between Bob Myers and Mike Dunleavy.
- [38:44]
B
Well, I will say this first and foremost, two great, not good, great people. Honest, hard working. If you didn't know it and you were just on the phone with them, you wouldn't know who you're talking to. They basically because Bob rep Mike, right. So they're really like brothers. I mean, I literally could close my eyes and if they were here together, their mannerisms are very similar, their voice is very similar. I will say this. The difference is Mike played, Bob didn't in the NBA. They're both well respected, they're both very, very smart, but they're genuine people. They're honest. There's no agenda. These two guys, if they walk into a room, you know how some people like, who's the most important person in the room, who has the most money? I'm going to go talk to them. They're going to talk to everybody. Give you a perfect example.
- [39:38]
A
I'm trying to get better at that.
- [39:40]
B
Well, you're big time. You're, you know, it's. And it's. It could be a life, you know, it's. It could be a lifetime challenge for you. But you know what? There are therapies.
- [39:49]
A
There's only so many years left. Right. Like, if I go over to the combine and I see, you know, I'm like, all right, well, let me see if I can sidle up to Presti here. And it never goes well.
- [39:59]
B
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what? You got to work on that.
- [40:01]
A
I've tried.
- [40:02]
B
There are. There are therapy sessions. They do have those. And out in California, I'm sure there's a lot of people that be willing to sit down with you on a couch and help you.
- [40:09]
A
Why would I sit down on a couch when I can be in a chair like this with you right now?
- [40:12]
B
Yeah, because you, there is the stubbornness in you. Yes. But I would say this getting back to what we really. The question you really asked.
- [40:19]
A
Right. No, I was like, we did that, though.
- [40:21]
B
We could segue into you, and we could talk for hours and get nowhere. But I would say this with Mike. We were at a team dinner. We have a number of people here with the staff. And so generally you would go into those staff dinners and the kind of. The main front office guys kind of sit together, and the people that are kind of learning kind of sit together. Mike's the type of person that goes from each table and sits in each group. I'm going to say that most people in his position don't do that. He's genuine. Bob's the same way. Yet they're both very competitive internally. Like, you wouldn't see it when you talk to them, but sit at a game with them, and you really need kind of some heavy armor and like, you really like a flak jacket and some kind of padding, because they're either elbowing you or they're just, they're making noises that don't sound comfortable coming out of a human being. But that's what people don't really see, the competitive that those two guys, they're very funny. They've got great sense of humor, great families, great. And, you know, it's, it's been a joy working for both of them. Now, look, I, I Full Transparency. Mike was 12 years old, and I was babysitting him in Milwaukee when I worked for his father. So I've known you since he's 12 years old, my father and his father. So you can't get fired, so I don't know about that. I mean.
- [41:39]
A
Well, it'd be tougher to fire you if you babysat.
- [41:42]
B
He's not the owner. He's not the owner.
- [41:44]
A
Yeah.
- [41:44]
B
And then Bob and I work together, you know, as a GM when I was a gym in Milwaukee and he was an agent, you know, with Dan Gadz. Reach. I mean, so we've known. I've known those two.
- [41:54]
A
Great pronunciation because it was Dan Gadzurik when he came into the league.
- [41:57]
B
I've known those two guys so long that it's probably not a good thing, but I, I, they're like family to me.
- [42:03]
A
So that's, that was a good answer. I wasn't expecting that. Speaking of family, though, your father. Head coach, Bucks, Rockets, Lakers.
- [42:11]
B
Yep.
- [42:12]
A
Did his coaching lifestyle push you towards the front office?
- [42:17]
B
Well, growing up there was. What was it? Baby, don't let your. Let me see. Don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys, I think was the name of the song my dad would sing around the house. Don't let your babies grow up to be coaches. That's what he would. He would sing it around the house. Grow up to be coaches. And so I learned early on that it's a very vagabond position. Fortunately for us, even though he coached in those three, those were kind of the latter years for me. I was already out of the house, so we didn't move around a lot.
- [42:50]
A
And he was an assistant in a bunch of spots, too, obviously.
- [42:52]
B
But we, you know, born and raised in Indiana, lived in Utah one year, and then basically the whole family migrated to Texas. And we never left right throughout middle school and high school. So I just knew early on that what I wanted to do was I was more in player procurement. I was more in building rosters and, you know, going to college and getting a math and computer science degree. It was. It was more. The analytics, the numbers mattered more to me than coaching, and I saw how hard it was for him. And. And again, I think he's one of the smartest, smartest people I know as far as basketball. I mean, he's going to be 89 years old in June, and he still will text me after games and stuff. And, hey, why are you guys not trapping the pick of the hole and what are you doing? Stuff. And so when I talk to him, like, his mind is still there now. He's not going to run a marathon or play 18 holes, but you want to go back in history and ask him, you know, what was the score with in Boston in 81 in game six? You know, was that at home or on the road against. Against the Celtics? And he not only would tell you the road, he'd tell you the day of the game, this final score, how much Moses had. And, you know, I should have done this and should have done that.
- [43:54]
A
Wow.
- [43:55]
B
It's incredible.
- [43:56]
A
That's awesome. Let's end on this. There can be. There'll be deals that are, like, rumored. Right? And I'm not going to ask you to, like, hey, was this true or not? Or any of that kind of stuff, but it's. It's like, all right, so you look at the step window and then you go, okay, maybe we. Maybe we like this Deal. Maybe we don't, you know, but then if you're waiting around for like the perfect deal, you're like, you're like, I think even the Jimmy Butler. I'm not asking you about it, but I'm saying, like, hey, if you're investing resources in a Jimmy and then you get to pay them the track records, there's an expiration date. Like, it's certainly not a perfect acquisition, but considering price and then what he's done for you guys, I think it's pretty safe to say, even with the injury, the version of it was. Was a win for the franchise. How do you handle, like, I don't know if, like this is a big deal and it makes us better and we've got this step window, but will we ever do this deal in any other circumstances? How do you balance knowing that like you're supposed to do everything for this guy who I still think is the best partner in the NBA in the last 20 years and what he means to his teammates, staff, franchise. How do you prevent yourself from making a big time, like, resource mistake, knowing you owe it to the player?
- [45:05]
B
Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, you know, we've done it the last couple years. I will say this, that let's just trade deadline. It's probably more relevant than free agency because GMs have to make a call to trade deadline, free agent. You know, when free agents open, there's no deadline, really. Right. So not a bunch of trades get made the past couple years and lead. Even leading up to that, Joe's mandate is can we find a player that can be our second best player? You know, and that's nothing against Draymond Green, but second best player being a. Scoring just something that can alleviate the pressure off of Steph and how much scoring. And we rely on him. Right. And he goes, I don't want to make a bad deal, but I want to go big game hunting. Every year it was. It was no different. This year it was no different with Jimmy. And so the options that we have.
- [45:56]
A
Were you close before the deadline this year? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:00]
B
I mean, and again, KP was a part of that, but there were other ones where like, okay, we have, you know, let's say a board's up there. Like, here are three or four scenarios. We've got a lot of lines out. And now we're.
- [46:13]
C
We.
- [46:14]
B
We want it.
- [46:14]
D
We.
- [46:15]
B
We're good with four of these options. And if we can reel one in and we have them in order, we're doing it. And so we're sitting there, you know, we're sitting there discussing, hey, which options do we like? I think at that time there were three. And we had them prioritized, and it was just waiting, okay, is that particular team willing to do the deal? They ended up saying no. Okay, they're gone. How about this one? So it's. It's on to the next one. And it's all about only adding a person that can help Steph and Draymond.
- [46:43]
C
It was.
- [46:43]
B
It's never been about anything, but we're not going to do something to do something. So there became a point where there were other smaller deals to do, and we decided, you know what? We're just not going to. We're not going to do something to do something. But Joe is one of those guys where it's like, hey, you know what? We've got this chance to get this back up from. I'll just mention Boston. We got a chance. It's going to be a second round pick. What do you think? I didn't really move the needle. What about this guy that could be our third or second best player. Are we still going there? So it's always pushing that lever, but not just to do something. To do something. And Mike's as aggressive as Bob was as well. Is like, anything we can do to help Steph. Now, the good thing is, is that if it's a real big deal, which these were, we're going to run them by Steph. Like, this is what we're doing. Are you good with this? Are we going to do. We're not putting somebody on Draymond and Steph's lap without saying, hey, what do you think? Now, again, those two guys don't go, well, who are we getting back and what. You know, it's not like it doesn't get that deep in the way. It's not that granular, but it is. Hey, are you okay with this? Are you okay doing this? Because it's moving people out in a culture that's pretty good and putting somebody in. And, you know, the players we've been talking about, obviously, Jimmy being one, KP being another, are players that have been in league a long time, so they know them. So it's not like, you know, we're not putting a rookie, you know, it's not like, hey, do you guys like, you know, Cooper Flag or whatever? And they go, well, we don't really know him well, I don't know about. These are like established dudes. Because we know that we need. If we're going to add a guy at the trade deadline. We need somebody that can plug and play, go right away and play the way we need to play, and that obviously, Steve's involved in all that. So the interesting part of it all, Ryan, is that all the players we've acquired, the major ones, kd, all the way across is. You had mentioned it earlier, is it's amazing how all of them, and even the free agents on the margins, which has been helpful to us. Steph, has allowed us to get those players, like, if it's close, they'll go, I want to play with Steph. I want to play with Steph. So the margins have looked pretty good, and we've been able to do that. Whether, you know, Iguodala would say that. And, you know, and obviously, Sean, now, we paid some of those guys. But you take Al Horford, you take the Anthony Melton recently. I mean, it's. It's amazing conversation that if things are equal, I'll come play with Steph. I want to. I want to see what that looks like. I want to do that. So it helps in our. It helps in. In the acquisition part of it to have, I. I think the greatest. And I mean this because. And I've been around him, and I've been around, and I've been around really good ones with my father as well. He's. He's the greatest superstar ever, off and on the floor. It's. It's so easy to talk to people about, you know, coming and playing for us because of him.
- [49:28]
A
I'll see you over at the scrimmages, and I'll. And I'll sit with you. Unless I see Pelinka.
- [49:32]
B
Yeah, I know. You're one of those that come into the room and you start looking around like, oh, that's an assistant GM with the Warriors. He's not got any juice for me. Let me go talk to somebody more important, because there's all kinds of presidents now. You know, that thing is a. That's a new deal.
- [49:46]
A
Are we going to get you back to president status? Because I want to see that happen, you being a gm.
- [49:50]
B
Can you do something for me? I mean, right now?
- [49:52]
A
I'll leave this in the pod.
- [49:54]
B
I guess what I tried. I told Joe I need to be on the dais to just get some more FaceTime. That was a whole thing, you know, I did that on my own. I said, hey, look, can I be on the desk? I think people don't know who I am, and I need to get out.
- [50:06]
A
No one Forgot about you.
- [50:07]
B
Everybody get out there and look. I colored my hair. I actually shaved that day. I rented a suit, and I didn't get anything, you know?
- [50:15]
A
Well, now you're on the pod, though.
- [50:16]
B
I know. Who knows how many jobs have people gotten out of the pod? Are you.
- [50:21]
A
We. I don't know that we've kept track of that. We had a couple guys.
- [50:24]
B
Is it more than zero? Is it more than zero?
- [50:26]
A
I think it. It's probably more than zero. I would be willing to bet it's more than zero.
- [50:29]
B
President title have we got to the president?
- [50:31]
A
Probably high.
- [50:32]
B
Okay.
- [50:32]
A
Somebody won the Greater Hartford Open after he came on, though.
- [50:36]
B
Very nice. You know what would help? Do you have, like, in your phone, like, maybe 25 owners numbers and that you can.
- [50:43]
A
25?
- [50:44]
B
Yeah.
- [50:45]
A
No, a little shy. A little shy of that. I'd probably be bugging him for something, but I, I. For yourself, If I get to 25 owners, I promise I'll recommend you to one of them.
- [50:53]
B
You will?
- [50:53]
A
Yeah.
- [50:53]
B
You know what? This summer, why don't you go to summer league, be my agent, you know,
- [50:56]
A
I don't want to go to summer league anymore.
- [50:58]
B
If, if you can do that for me, I'll let you be my agent.
- [51:02]
A
Yeah, but don't you guys in the front office only give, like, Warren 3%, 4%. I know. Warren already has, like a. I know,
- [51:07]
B
but I don't have an agent. Maybe that's probably hurt me, but I haven't. You know, Warren helped me for a long time, but, you know, I. This is year 38 for me, and I have. Technically, I've never. Now Warren's helped in looking at my contract one time. I've never. I've done everything on my own. I haven't really had.
- [51:25]
A
I feel like this is known as the ownership pod, though, so maybe they just. In silence. I have a relationship with them, so I wouldn't be shocked if you get a call from Warren next week being like, hey, that hit on Rosillo show, like there's some real buzz about you.
- [51:38]
B
Is that gonna happen?
- [51:39]
A
I'm not.
- [51:40]
B
You know what's happening, right? My phone's buzzing because my wife, she's asked me, is that true? Is Ryan really a good friend of yours? Can he help you?
- [51:45]
A
I'm like, what's not probably happening?
- [51:48]
B
He's not a good friend, and he hasn't helped anybody. Do you hear him? I asked the. He's like, he hadn't. He hadn't got anybody at president's job.
- [51:53]
A
No. What's. What's likely happening is that they're going to go, hey, we need him back at the gym because he's so good with the second rounders.
- [52:00]
B
You know what? I'd rather be good at that. That keeps me in the league a little bit longer, as I say. And trick him a little bit more.
- [52:06]
A
Well, you've been tricking for a long time. Yeah, you're the best. Thanks, Larry.
- [52:10]
B
You bet.
- [52:12]
A
There's no better place to watch the NBA playoffs than at km. I've been wanting to check it out. I'm headed there in la. I mean, look out, they don't even know I'm coming. Looks like you can go courtside in shared reality as Cosm's massive LED dome surrounds you. Adjacent to the dome is the hall made for the fans. It's your game day HQ with every game all at once on a wall to wall LED display. Great food and drinks delivered to you in your seat. When you can't be there, be at KOSM, get your tickets and get courtside@cosm.com c o s m.com today live from the combine in our studios. I think it might be our last front office guy and I'm excited to do this. Rafael Stone, who's the GM of the Houston Rockets is with us in studio and I know we got scrimmages coming up here shortly, so I'm excited to go over there, watch. All the nil Stuff's killing the second round, huh?
- [53:07]
C
Yeah, I mean it is. It's making it different. A lot older. It'll.
- [53:12]
A
It'll be cycle out a little.
- [53:14]
C
It'll cycle out. So like, yeah, I mean everybody's staying but it, but, but in two years or whatever, everybody ages out and then I think actually it'll make the second round better because people will be older, more prepared and everything else. But we're in a little bit of a weird spot time wise right now.
- [53:31]
A
Yeah, yeah. I think that's been one of the consensus things. So let's take a look at this season. I was watching some of the exit stuff that you did with EME and the message is pretty clear in the beginning of it. It's like, hey, we expected to do better. We expected more wins, you expected more in the playoffs. How do you get out of kind of the emotional phase of maybe being disappointed by a season to then transitioning to now? I cannot be emotional as I prepare the rest of the off season.
- [53:56]
C
Yeah, I'm, I definitely wasn't over it then. I'm over it now. I mean it's tough. Like at the end of the day, like, it kind of all falls in my, in my head, it all falls on me, right? So if we're not successful or if we don't meet what I, what I view as success, then I, then at some level, I view it as my failure, right? And then you take it. And I think Ema is very similar. So it's like, what do I need to do better? That, that's kind of like always the starting spot. So it, so it's really raw when you don't hit your own expectations. But you know, I have a great job, I have a great life. You, you, you get over it. And now you're like. And now you get excited about, about the, the things that did go well and, and the opportunities looking forward and, and so I'm, I'm firmly there already.
- [54:43]
A
How different is the season with a healthy Fred?
- [54:46]
C
Oh, I mean, it's, I mean it's, it's enormously different in some ways. Like, guys got awesome opportunities, so it's not all. There's. So they're for sure silver linings. But yeah, I mean, Fred is, is, you know, I think one of the best point guards in the NBA and he's, he's won a championship and he's been an all star. And just look at our record the prior two years when he didn't play. We weren't a very good team. So 1, 1, 1 positive from last year. Fred didn't play. We were still a very good team. And, and so that required everybody from top to bottom on our roster to take more, more load on. And so that's great. But I do think, yeah, Fred's a very, very important player for us and, and, and not someone you can just replace.
- [55:28]
A
I'm going to give you a lot of credit here. And you know, we don't have any kind of relationships. So I remember like, hey, you're new guy and you know how the NBA world is. It's like, oh, he came in working on the legal team of the Rockets and now he's running the basketball ops, right? And then it's like you have these two deals. The Van Vliet deal, which is a big number, and then it's the Brooks deal, coming off a playoff series where it seemed like the NBA world was like, just hating on him so much. And when I looked at the prices, I was like, damn. I'm like, they're, they're not messing around. And I think part of it was, hey, there's very little now in Free agency with the way guys are doing extensions. So you've got to make sure if you're serious about bidding on somebody, you. You have to throw them that kind of number. And, like, the Brooks contract in particular, I think a lot of people are like, what are they doing? And then it completely, like, shows this is why Brooks is still valuable, because of the culture and what he's able to do. And Fred settling everybody down offensively, when you're mapping out something that maybe no one else is understanding, what is that like for you, where you're going, like, hey, this might actually not go over well, but I know I'm doing the right thing.
- [56:29]
C
That seems like it's every deal I do in my head.
- [56:33]
A
I don't think that's it. The Brooks one was like, what are they doing?
- [56:37]
C
I mean, when we traded James, lots of people didn't get it. Last year, we did kind of a pick for pick deal with Brooklyn that lots of people didn't think was a good deal. I think I try very hard to not. I try to take a very long view on everything. I think that that's like. That's the difference between a GM and a coach. A coach is, like, grinding hourly, daily. A GM has to always be thinking about the long term, and so I do. And then I think it's just like you talked about the emotions and. Yeah, and that definitely affects me, too, but I think maybe just naturally I bounce out of that quicker, more than most people or whatever. But Dylan's. I mean, I don't want to talk about another team's player, but it's like, I love Dylan and I will forever. And the way he plays basketball, anybody who plays with that amount of intensity and aggression and kind of constant focus can be on a team I'm on for eternity. And I saw that before. We got him, and then we got him, and we were super happy. And I've seen that afterwards, and he's. Yeah, I have nothing but positives to say there.
- [57:52]
A
Do you feel like you've already gone through, like, some massive pivots in a shorter amount of time than normal, where, you know, you're gearing up for the hardened season? And then it's like, okay, wait a minute, now we're. We're out. And then it's like, okay, now we're young, but now I'm going to spend in free agency. But I've had all these draft picks, but now then we're going to go into the Durant thing. Like, it feels like a lot has
- [58:12]
C
happened So I, to me, we just won. I do think. I, I think the James trade was a big pivot because so long as you have him on your team and he was at the time worst. The second best player in the world. He was so good and still very good. But, but we were just win, win, win, constantly trying to churn through it. And obviously that was my first year as a gm and the organization was going through enormous changes. It wasn't, you know, new gm, new coach. You know, we, we. Right before we traded James, we traded Russ. So like that, that wasn't even.
- [58:42]
A
But it was also, I think, really challenging because it was kind of like you're mapping out, hey, this is who we're going to be. And then it's like month, and we're like, oh, I guess not.
- [58:50]
C
I mean, I, I probably knew before it wasn't. It Maybe, maybe, maybe it wasn't quite as big. Big for me as like, yeah, but
- [58:57]
A
sure, there's a track record. Yeah, go ahead.
- [58:59]
C
So, so, so, so may. Yeah, maybe for me it wasn't quite that, but I did think that was a huge pivot. We, we, we. We decided that that had run its course and we were going to make a big pit. The rest for me is very, is actually pretty linear, like pretty planned. Like. Oh, yeah. Nothing was like, what?
- [59:18]
B
Yeah.
- [59:18]
C
And I, and I still think we are that, like, notwithstanding who, you know, the, the individual summers or whatever else. I think we're, we're. We're trying to build up to a championship level team. We're trying to be very competitive, like, have the window be open as long as is possible. But, but always with a, with, with a view towards, you know, having extended Runway of being very good. Not, not like we're all in on this year, you know, and, and I, I think. And I. Yeah. So I think since then it's been kind of this steady buildup and I still feel like we're kind of in that phase.
- [59:52]
A
We talk a lot about timelines and you know, sometimes I think you from the front office side and I'm talking not just about you, but the people that do the job. It's like, okay, well, yeah, I mean, we can talk about timelines, but at the same time, like, if this player we think makes us better, then we want to be better and then see what happens. You start mapping out these five year timelines, it's probably a waste of time. So it can be seen as another pivot to Durant at his age. He has a great year for you, but also these younger players that you still have on the roster. So how does Durant. I don't think it's a timeline question necessarily, but I don't know if it ends up being like, Durant's presence means what. And how you map out the rest of the roster.
- [60:29]
C
Yeah, I think.
- [60:30]
B
I think.
- [60:31]
C
I think. I think maybe the external view was Durant's presence means we're, like, all in on winning this year or this is our only opportunity to win. And it's why we extended him as soon as we got him. We wanted him here for several years. Hopefully he's here for the remainder of his career. And I think we have this exciting. What I think is exciting group of players that I think complement him, and I think it's why he really wanted to come. And they have to figure each other out. That group, which is very young, has to get better, and that's kind of, I think, where we're at. But, like. Yeah. So to me, it's like it. It's. You. To me, it's like, I mean, it's been done in the NBA where people kind of like, they do a rental that they know they're not going to get. They hit. They hit lightning in a bottle and they win in one year. But that's really hard to do. And.
- [61:27]
A
And it's almost impossible.
- [61:28]
C
And it's.
- [61:29]
A
You can look at Kawhi, right? Like, all right, whatever.
- [61:31]
C
Yeah, but that's. That's not our goal, right? And.
- [61:33]
A
And so.
- [61:34]
C
And so that wasn't our goal with Kevin either. It was like, like, and it's not his goal. Like, he's like, like, not just him, but like, NBA vets in general. One thing they all understand is just how hard it is to win a title. So everybody's like, I know there's no guarantee. I want to be in the mix. I, you know, I want to be in a situation where the people around me, if things go well, can. Can improve and we can prove together. And, like, Kevin's still trying to become a better basketball player. It's actually one of my. He's a true Hooper. That's one of my favorite things about him. And. And so he has to. He has to improve his game to fit better with his teammates. They have to improve their games kind of overall, not just to fit better with him. They have to become better NBA players. And, and then hopefully, like, we. We have, you know, we get healthy and, And. And we'll. We'll work really hard this summer at bolstering the roster. Maybe there's there's things we can do that, that help us a little bit and, and then come back next year and hopefully we're a much better team. That's, that's the goal.
- [62:30]
A
I, I think part of my frustration watching the team was as the season kept going and maybe the defense is cranked up, I still wasn't quite sure, like, what your best option was after Durant would get double teamed and there were stretches where I'd see like, I don't know if it was confusion. I didn't know if, if. And I'm not one that wants to sit here and like, be super critical of coaches when I didn't play at a level high enough to, to warrant that kind of stuff. But were there moments where you were like, hey, we're, we're into March and we're into April and we need to figure out how to solve some of our offensive problems, whether it's, it's lineups or just getting maybe Kevin off the ball?
- [63:09]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that that hit us in like week two and, and, and we, and we were trying to figure it out from there. And you know, it's definitely on ime, but it's on the players too. And what one, one thing is we actually crushed double with Kevin early in game. So. So like the whole season in the first three quarters and people doubled Kevin. We just annihilated it. And then we struggled most of the season with it in the fourth quarter, which. That, that doesn't make a lot of intuitive sense.
- [63:36]
A
And so that's when it looks so much worse too, because you're like, here it comes again.
- [63:40]
C
Yeah. And, and so that, that was frustrating. I did feel like we really definitely took longer to come together than any of us wanted. I did feel like we, we kind of hit a groove at the very end of the season and we did schematically figure out a couple of things and a couple of plays we could go to late. And I felt like our execution late game got better last 10, 12 games of the season. And then Kevin didn't play in the playoffs. Right. And so that didn't go so well in terms of executing with Kevin.
- [64:15]
A
Yeah, we have nothing to judge it on there, I guess.
- [64:18]
C
And even the game he got, he, he sprained his ankle really badly actually, at the beginning of the fourth quarter in the one game he did play. And we're like, Kevin's not moving. Why is Kevin not moving? Well, he's trying to play through an ankle he shouldn't have played On. So, you know, it is what it is. And, and so, you know, so, so we have, we. I mean, we have things to work on. Like, to me, it's like, it's like, you know, okay, we, we were bad at it this year, you know, and all of us would say that, right? Like, we're not. And, and the failure is like top to bottom, right? It's not like, oh, it's this player or what. Like, it's very rarely in the NBA is it any one guy, right? And, and you know, it's on me because I didn't get the right roster. It's on Eme because he didn't make the right tweaks. It's on your, your guard who's initiating the offense because he didn't make the right call. It's on Kevin as the playmaker because he didn't make the right read. It's, you know, it's on, it's on out because he got the ball in the pocket and didn't make the right choice. Like, it's, you know, you can go all the way down, right? And so we all collectively have to be better.
- [65:23]
A
This was a lot to ask for Reed to close the season, right. I know he's a top draft pick, but I would, I would say, like, hey, you being in charge of every single one of these possessions is a lot to ask somebody who's finally like getting those consistent minutes. How would you say this year's play probably towards the end of the year and then into the playoffs, how that impacts what your long term vision of who Reed can be as a player?
- [65:44]
C
Oh, I'm excited for Reed. I. Of all the things that came out of this year, I think, I think the best was him getting just a really great opportunity and largely taking advantage of it. I know he didn't have the year top to bottom that he wanted, but I think, I just think there's a lot of growth. And so I am really, I am really happy for him. But the one thing I would say is that like, we, we did try hard to not, to not have him be solely responsible. And, and so we kind of shared the burden between him and a man, and I think that was helpful to read. But our offense was always better with Reed on the court all year, you know, and, and I think he has some really special talents. He's a lot like all young players are. He's a long ways away. He wasn't, you know, we weren't able to get him the reps that he wanted or we wanted in his first year, but he, you know, he just got all of them this year, and that's great. And it's a tough league, man like that. You know, I'm sure there's somebody who's. Who.
- [66:42]
E
Who.
- [66:42]
C
Who has not failed, who just came in and didn't fail, but I don't know who that person was off the top of my head, you know, and so I, I think, you know, or
- [66:49]
A
he's on a worse team and he's, like, jacking up a ton of threes and it's fun and he's scoring, but, yeah, it happens all the time. Right?
- [66:54]
C
But to me, like, you know, and I, My. My players very much know this about me. Like, you have 50 and your team loses, you failed. Like, you know, like, there is no there. There are small, you know, yeah, there are small wins within losses. It's not like you can't. You can't. It can't be productive. It can be productive, but if you're not winning basketball. We're here to win basketball games. We're not. We're. I am not here to help somebody make all star teams or all NBA teams or set records or anything else. I am all about trying to win games and, and ultimately win a championship.
- [67:28]
B
And.
- [67:29]
C
And so, yeah, so that. Yeah, it is. That's. That's kind of how I look at
- [67:32]
A
it when I watch some of the lineups that you have, and I'll go like, okay, Shingoon's a core guy, men's a core guy, Durant's a core guy, you've extended Jabari. And depending on what happens with Fred's health or read minutes, you're like, okay, there's. There's versions where it's like three of the five guys are providing spacing. You know, in an ideal world, even your center shoots threes, and you can play five out and open some sort of passing lanes and you hope they hold up. You know, like, we understand, but that's just not reality for everybody. But when I watch some of the stuff with a man, it's like, until he develops more as any kind of outside threat, defenses are going to help off of him. If Shingoon is positioned in certain spots, is grazy and drives and some of the passing stuff, it looks like maybe there's a rule where the help will. Will deviate from him if it ends up back with Durant or something like that. So when you're thinking about, hey, I like this player, how much does what your core guys can or can't do impact how they would be, like, added to the roster or not added to the roster, knowing you kind of have identified who the guys are going to
- [68:30]
C
be for sure at the, like, the back end of the roster. I think that's really important. I mean, I always want really good players. I do think you're all like, 95% of the time, you're better off having redundant strengths than you are a guy who fits but isn't a, isn't as good a basketball player. So, like, there's, there, there's, there's trade offs, right? Like, like, to me, really big ones. But, but yeah, going into a summer, going into an off season, you're very much thinking. I'm very much thinking, hey, how can we get, you know, how do these guys at the back end of our roster, if we slot them in, how do they fit with our main guys? Because if your main guys go down, it's really challenging. We, we had this, we had that this year. I mean, I do think for us coming into the season, Fred and. Fred and Steven were definitely viewed as main guys. And it's chat. It is, it's. It's not, it's not as simple as, like, oh, a starter who, you know, I mean. But yeah, in the playoffs, I think we had $100 million sitting on the bench. Like, you're not going to replace, you're
- [69:29]
A
not going to win. Yeah, right.
- [69:30]
C
You're not going to replace those guys with, with, with, with, you know, guys you pick up on free agency at the minimum. That's just, it's just not going to happen.
- [69:39]
A
I love the. I know. Again, like, I want to talk about the contractor, Jalen Green. I'm not talking about the player because I remember when it came out, I was like, okay, this is interesting to me because usually, like, history tells you, hey, we drafted you this high. You scored a bunch of points, and we know what the agent's asking for. You know what the player's asking for. I think there's a lot of teams that just go, yeah, all right, we're still not sure, but here's your max. And, and I'm, I'm sure everybody asks for that and everybody can ask for whatever they want, but what I liked was the structure where it was like, hey, you're going to get paid. But then there's also a way for you to get out. If we feel like, you know, you, you've done what you needed to do or you feel like you're worth more. Like, I thought it was a creative structure. Where history tells us that's not exactly what always happens. And there's sometimes an overpay because you've drafted the player so high. How much will Demands from other potential free agents, knowing that that's kind of something you've done in the past, how much will those demands maybe influence who is part of the core moving forward?
- [70:41]
B
I.
- [70:41]
C
No, I think our core is kind of pretty set. And, you know, I think.
- [70:45]
A
I think there's extensions maybe.
- [70:46]
C
Yeah, no, I mean, but, you know, I think. I think we'll get to something with those guys. I think, you know, my view is that, I mean, we're just. We're also lucky to work in the NBA, and. And from a player perspective, the money's gotten so big that, you know, I. I think my belief is that, like, the way, you know, if somebody. If somebody offers. If somebody offers me, like, you know, generational wealth. I mean, that is what we're talking about in a lot of these cases. I should do what's best for me, and I should think about it. I should get advisors and everything else. One thing I would never be is. Is insulted. And so I think that. That's my view, is my job. That's how. That's how I think every player should look at it and every agent and don't take the deal. Like, do the best deal. That is for you.
- [71:40]
E
Like.
- [71:41]
C
Like, by no means am I trying to pressure somebody into doing something they don't want to do, but no one should ever be insulted. And so, because that's kind of my philosophy. And I. And I think that the players on our team, you know, they. They shouldn't. They shouldn't think about how I view them based on whatever the contract is. They should. The way I view them is, like, that's how we interact daily. We have. You know, I like to believe. And I. I think. I think it's very much the case. I have, like, real relationships with all of our players, particularly the ones who we drafted and have been with us for years. And Jalen's a good example. Jalen will be a part of my life until he chooses not to be. I think he's one of the better human beings I've ever encountered, and I'm lucky to have spent that much time with him. And so that has nothing to do with the negotiation. And ultimately, in negotiation, we're offering just an absolute ton of money. Take it, don't take it. My job, though, is to structure something that works in the big picture. Spread amongst 15 guys, spread amongst, like, I've always got like a five year outlook on it. And so it's a puzzle and that's, that's what I'm doing. And I've got certain amounts of information and I'm betting this and I'm betting that and I'm not always going to be right. Like, and there's all these intervening events, whether it's like personal stuff that no one saw coming, injuries, like, you know, we're in the human being business. It's, it's a hard business. And, and there's no such thing as perfect knowledge. But, but that's my approach to it. And, and so, you know, because we are kind of putting the puzzle together, not every deal looks the same and not every player has the same desires. And so. So, so, yeah, so every deal is going to look a little bit different. But, but you know, we're going to negotiate every deal. We're not, we're not just, just doing what the other team did. That's, that's very much not my approach. And. Yeah, and it's, and, and to date it's worked out, it's worked out so far. And you know, and we have a really good group and, and a group of guys that likes each other and wants to be there and wants to win together. And it's, it's, it's. I've. I feel like I've been on a really lucky run. I really enjoy my job because I really enjoy the people I work with and like, and that it's not just this past year, although it was great, but like, honestly it's been for like that, that way for four or five years is like, since we kind of made this flip. It's been, it's been a really, really good run in terms of being able to work with, with really quality young people.
- [74:10]
A
Last thing I know that your background is in law and so you come in Houston and work as part of what, like general counsel for the organization. Did you ever think that this would happen? That you become the gm?
- [74:22]
C
Yeah. So I come from a basketball family.
- [74:24]
A
Right. Your dad played?
- [74:25]
C
Yeah, my dad played, my brother played, I played. I only took the job because I thought that this was an opportunity that I might be able to create for myself. And I don't really believe in titles. And so my title didn't, didn't change until I became gm. The role was very different. So like, I don't know, I, I'd been there maybe I'd been with the organization maybe six months when, when Daryl got hired and, and I You know, and, and we, we did a lot of, I thought, very cool stuff together and, and was very involved. So I think, I think sometimes people look from the outside in and they're like, hey, he was new. I, I, I was. And I, I'm unfortunately not young and I wasn't new.
- [75:07]
A
Well, you've been there, what, 20 years? Yeah. Yeah. So I, I just think it's also a credit to the basketball people, though, to not be threatened by it, you know, to, to be around you and then go like, okay, this is a basketball mind. Because I think that there's an old school approach to this where.
- [75:22]
C
Yeah, I don't, I, I, yes, but
- [75:25]
A
unless you were telling ownership, like, hey, the only way I'm coming in here is if I can tell you who I think can or can't shoot.
- [75:31]
C
Yeah, I mean, that was, that was, that was literally my conversation in my initial interview with the guy who owned the team at the time, Leslie Alexander.
- [75:38]
A
How old were you?
- [75:39]
C
I was 32, so, but, but yeah, no, I, I told him I wanted to have real involvement on the basketball side or, or the job wasn't interesting, and he was fine with that.
- [75:47]
A
Well, it worked out.
- [75:48]
D
Yeah.
- [75:49]
A
Enjoy the combine. I really appreciate the time.
- [75:50]
C
No, thanks for having me.
- [75:54]
D
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- [76:47]
A
You want details?
- [76:48]
D
Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?
- [76:54]
A
I have a ridiculous house in the south fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine.
- [76:59]
D
And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.
- [77:06]
A
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- [77:49]
D
Good. I was just telling Steve off air. I was. I shocked myself when I saw the shorts I wore on this segment last time and I thought I learned from. From your. Your past, but I just, I thought they were longer inseams, but I guess they just rode up on the couch and I really.
- [78:03]
E
I'm gonna have some dudes.
- [78:04]
D
Really shocked myself when I peeked at the Dropbox Dropbox yesterday and saw that. Saw that two shot. So, yeah, I'm secure today.
- [78:11]
A
You got some ass on you, Kyle. I'm not gonna lie. You know, when you've got any, if you got anything that like, you know, I think you've got like DH ass, to be honest with you. You know, you're not like a second base or utility, you know, can play some right field kind of, you know.
- [78:26]
D
Yeah, I've heard ass comments.
- [78:27]
A
You know, Benjamin, you know, when I
- [78:29]
E
was younger, would you say his frame is also wasted like big cats?
- [78:32]
A
Yeah. I'll be honest with you. Big cat's got this shoulder thing. Like he could have a low, a small lower body.
- [78:39]
D
He's got this huge torso at the bottom of his.
- [78:41]
A
Yo, yo.
- [78:42]
D
He looks incredible, you know.
- [78:43]
A
He does. Yeah. But I feel like he's. He's got like the, the cobra back. Would happen in three months. He really did it. Yeah.
- [78:52]
E
If he went on the Rosillo plan.
- [78:54]
A
But I don't know, I think he must think like his brand. Like it would ruin his brand if he actually was too hot. Yeah. Hot cat. Like this guy can't be good looking. Yeah, no, I'm fascinated by it. I could do an hour on it. Won't do it today.
- [79:10]
E
He's a Midwest eight, right?
- [79:14]
D
We're going pretty high.
- [79:16]
A
A Midwest eight.
- [79:18]
E
Well, yeah, Midwest eight.
- [79:20]
D
That's such a personal elite thing to say. Dude, that's really. You just pissed off.
- [79:24]
A
What do you think you are?
- [79:25]
E
Nah.
- [79:26]
C
Here we go.
- [79:27]
E
I used to be way hotter than I am now.
- [79:28]
A
Yeah. No, I don't think you're less hot.
- [79:30]
E
Nah.
- [79:31]
A
You know, you thought you were that hot back then.
- [79:34]
E
No, but I tan better.
- [79:39]
B
Yeah.
- [79:39]
A
Yeah. You're a little paler. My eye.
- [79:41]
E
The bags under the eyes now are just a bummer. I'm looking at creams here and there being like, how do I fix this problem? So. No. Yeah. I think I've slipped a little bit.
- [79:49]
D
You had, like, high school bad guy look back then.
- [79:53]
E
Bad guy.
- [79:53]
D
No. In a movie, though. In a movie. You know what I mean? It's like, that kid's loaded and he's an.
- [79:58]
E
None of those things are true.
- [79:59]
B
I know.
- [79:59]
D
I'm just saying the look, it was like, oh, that's. I would cast him. I could cast.
- [80:02]
A
He was always blonde in the 80s, so it's tough for me to relate to what you're talking about right now. Would you say you're a Hudson Valley 7
- [80:14]
D
post haircut, fresh cut? Yeah. And I think. I think my frame looks better in shorts, too. I mean, obviously not from what we're just discussing, but if I'm, like, in real life, walking around. Yeah. Waiting in line for something.
- [80:25]
A
Yeah.
- [80:26]
D
And so in, like, shorts and. Yeah. I just think it. I think it ties. Really ties the look together, especially now that I'm Silver guy.
- [80:32]
C
Yeah.
- [80:32]
E
To your. To your shorts Point shorts. Sitting down in a chair on camera is just. I don't know anybody. I mean, I just don't know anything.
- [80:38]
D
I think I made a sound.
- [80:39]
E
I was like, oh, yeah.
- [80:41]
A
So, yeah, that never works. I've worn normal shorts on couches, and it still just looks horrible because then you just got to fight them for the whole show.
- [80:48]
E
Yeah.
- [80:50]
A
I'm not saying I'm never doing it again, but that. That one from my house a few years ago with Titus was brutal. Just brutal. And the other problem is, like, one wasn't great either. Right.
- [81:00]
D
That was a boss.
- [81:01]
A
Yeah. Because it's barefoot.
- [81:02]
B
Barefoot.
- [81:02]
D
No, you had the shorts on that one, too.
- [81:04]
A
I think people were really upset that I was barefoot. Like, you just didn't have shoes on. I'm like, I don't know. I'm in my house. Yeah. My guy came over.
- [81:12]
E
I. I buried the lead, too.
- [81:15]
A
My buddy.
- [81:16]
E
Middle finger guy. Yeah, he's my Chicago buddy. We hung out last night.
- [81:19]
A
Oh.
- [81:20]
E
And we did it. We got a little. We got a little middle finger bar.
- [81:23]
D
Oh, you guys look way too happy.
- [81:25]
E
Well, I'll send this to Tom and I'll put it in the pot, but,
- [81:28]
A
yeah, see, you just told. This is the first we've heard about this that he's the epic middle finger guy. Yeah. From your.
- [81:34]
E
His wife was there too.
- [81:35]
D
She wasn't.
- [81:36]
E
Didn't love the photo.
- [81:37]
A
She didn't love. Did she know about this?
- [81:39]
E
Nope. Well, I don't. I mean, I guess if she just like, you know, did a deep dive of his Instagram, maybe she's seen it.
- [81:44]
D
But I'm sure she was like, what, the attention.
- [81:48]
E
But she's the one that took the picture, though. She was the one that wanted it. So maybe she was happy about it. But yeah, we brought, we're bringing it back.
- [81:53]
A
So I, if I had known, I would have had him. I would add, be like, can we get five minutes of the show?
- [81:59]
E
Because it's just here tomorrow too.
- [82:00]
A
I mean, yeah, Mike Miller doesn't show up. Yeah, maybe we'll.
- [82:04]
D
We got space.
- [82:05]
A
Yeah, maybe we'll do it. Give him Mike Miller's plural. All right, let's read a couple of emails here. Hustling in the gym gets trainer canned. Five ten, one eight five. Recently dropped 25 pounds by changing my diet with zero exercise.
- [82:21]
D
Email me.
- [82:23]
A
Yeah, congrats on the still fresh Netflix deal. Thanks. You can watch all of our full episodes live from Chicago as well on Netflix. My wife and I have a situation that equal parts moral dilemma and health concerns. A few months ago, I encouraged her to invest in a good gym membership and personal trainer. She finally found one she clicked with. The trainer was pushing her hard and she was the most motivated I've seen in years. Confidence was up, physique was improving. All good. Then I find out the trainer wasn't just coaching her in the gym, she was running a little side hustle that went in a different direction than I thought it would. Yeah.
- [82:58]
D
So I think we were all on the same train and we all got off at the same time.
- [83:01]
A
This is just some straight up skimming. Buying 12 classes through the gym. She said, Buy 12 classes through the gym, then I'll train you directly for cheaper. Just pay me cash and will work in the gym package sessions. My wife gets the cheaper sessions, the trainer pockets more and the gym at least gets the membership dues in some of the packages. I figured it was shady but told my wife. But it was working for everyone. Until it wasn't. The old manager left, a new one came in who actually pays attention. He sniffed out the arrangement in a few weeks and fired my wife's trainer. Now my wife is rattled. Workouts have stopped completely. So the questions should she feel genuinely guilty for stealing from the gym? Should she feel bad that her trainer got canned and most importantly for me, how do I get her re engaged with something effective right away? Golf season is here, and I can't have this drag on and kill my tee times.
- [83:49]
E
Appreciate there's the real problem.
- [83:51]
A
That's the real dilemma. All right, let's start with the easiest. Should she feel bad that her trainer can. Absolutely not. No. I mean, the trainer knew the risk and is probably going to. Was doing this for a while with a ton of clients and who knows, may resurface somewhere else. The bad part about the gym, I think this always kind of comes down to like, you know, Dan and Betty's candy shop versus Target. Yeah, right. So, like. Yeah.
- [84:21]
E
Is this Joe's gym?
- [84:22]
A
Yeah, right. If it's a local, like, I mean, none of it's right. But I think we all know the rules here. Like, is it a mom and pop type gym? The. No, you should feel a little bad because this guy's the guy that puts together a small business where he's paying employees, creating jobs, and he's getting fucked by providing all of these things for somebody to be able to charge membership fees. So I don't want to sound like a total jerk, but if it's a big, big corporation, maybe you feel a little less bad about the whole thing. But now what do we do? What do you got?
- [84:54]
D
I mean, I think whenever somebody that you go like the normal route and it's usually a service provider, I actually, this actually was a success with me with an Uber. Hudson Valley is still really behind in the Uber game. Like, we're talking, you know, sometimes 15, 20 minute wait times, you know, I think about calling a yellow cab and I'm just like, let's see what they're talking about. But I did find a guy who was like, he didn't ask me because sometimes you'll get an Uber and they'll be like, hey, you want to do me a favor? Cancel this ride right now and then I'll just drop you off. And I'm like, all right, so we're just taking the guardrails off this thing. But we went the. We went like a good long ride where I had to get someplace. And he was like, hey, next time you want to, just call me instead. And I was like, great. That. That's like, that's. That's doing things. Like, we are going to step outside the lines here. But it doesn't feel shady. But I think as soon as you step into the situation where it's like, all right, you do this with the gym, and then I I don't know. I guess I don't know where I'm going after.
- [85:44]
A
They're like, this is like you rattled yourself, right?
- [85:46]
B
Yeah.
- [85:47]
D
But this is exactly what you can expect to happen. So can you just pick a different trainer? Like, the motivations there, right. To work with the gym. The gym wants. Ultimately wants the customer who. And you know, their. Their ex trainer was soliciting stuff. So no one's going to be, like, looking at your wife's this sideways if she's like, got in her head like, oh, this was so embarrassing. You know, that might be what it is. Just go.
- [86:07]
A
He didn't bring that up.
- [86:07]
D
But, yeah, go get a new legit trainer. Because he's like, the momentum stops. What do we do now?
- [86:11]
E
Wait, did I miss something, though? Why can't she just keep using this trainer somewhere else or off?
- [86:17]
D
That trainer's certainly not going to be allowed back in that gym.
- [86:19]
A
Yeah.
- [86:19]
E
Like, I guess she doesn't have her own equipment, so there's probably the answer there.
- [86:22]
A
Well, here's the thing, though, Siri, she's going to resurface somewhere. Yeah. If I've met one trainer, I met them all. Yeah.
- [86:28]
E
All right, so a couple miles down the road.
- [86:29]
A
Yeah, Right. New spot. Hey, why'd you leave? Oh, the man, a new manager was the worst. I couldn't work for him. He's like, yeah, all right, what else? I'm not going to tell you that part. That would be my thing is the first and foremost, like, she's going to pop up. This is what she does. Maybe she's learned a lesson. She wants to pull the same scam. If you had any of these moral dilemmas, you say no, Actually, I just want to pay for the membership stuff through the gym and all the extra sessions. And I'm going to do it, the
- [86:58]
E
paper trail, keep it street legal.
- [86:59]
A
Right. So you do it.
- [87:00]
D
Nobody ends up. Small claims. Yeah, but we like these things.
- [87:03]
A
The other thing, too, is that the fact that your wife's responded to specific training like, this is not a soulmate. Okay? There's no gym soulmate. Especially when you're training. Like, there's different people that you're going to connect with all the time. When I was younger, like, the first guy that I felt like, oh, and then it was like, I didn't ever almost, like, felt this odd sense of, like, attachment where I was like, I can't.
- [87:24]
D
I'll never have another barber.
- [87:25]
E
Right.
- [87:25]
A
Yeah. With anyone else because. And then you actually, like, he was telling me, like, just do some other Stuff with some other people, man. Like you're going to pick up little things from all these different people and then you're like, oh yeah, this is great. You know, it's the same thing with like combat sports. You know, you fall in love with one trainer. It's like, well, that means there's going to be a bunch of holes in your game. So I don't know that she's going to start fighting anybody or anything like that. But I would say this other trainer is definitely going to resurface. And the fact that she responded so well was so motivated. This one means that there's likely another person somewhere else and maybe at the same exact gym where she shouldn't really
- [87:57]
D
feel all probably have unused sessions. Right. Like, at least, I don't know, the
- [88:02]
A
place might be like, we don't really feel like we owe you a ton.
- [88:05]
E
Yeah.
- [88:06]
D
Again, I think like, you know, with gyms, they want to keep people that like they, you need a steady customer base. And this is a customer who not only will go to the gym, will also purchase the, the upsell packages. I think that's probably a valuable person for them.
- [88:20]
E
The average person at that gym is not going to carry there. So you just, I feel like you
- [88:23]
B
can go there with it.
- [88:24]
D
That's what I'm saying.
- [88:25]
E
If you have conscience.
- [88:26]
A
Yeah.
- [88:26]
D
If you have unused classes, I just say try to, try to find someone else within the guidelines there to use them up while this new. Because you don't want to be like going to the high school turf field because this new, this, your old trainer doesn't have any equipment, doesn't have a home. She's like, well, you know, we could still meet at 4 o' clock and just do like burpees for an hour. And you know, we want to try some suicides.
- [88:45]
E
I'm surprised that this stuff doesn't happen more often though. Like people just trying to. Maybe it doesn't, it doesn't. I just don't know about it. Like, you know how long it took. Like, I remember when you become an adult and you're like, okay, I need to find like a real doctor. And you're like, it's kind of hard to find a doctor. And then you find one, blah, blah. If I was like somebody, I'd be like, yeah, I'm just out of the back of my truck, out of the back of my car. You want some pills?
- [89:07]
D
I've, I've just found a new doctor and he a little shifty, man, I'll tell you.
- [89:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, I Built his office himself
- [89:13]
D
though, so I think that's a self starter.
- [89:15]
A
Are you a time traveler?
- [89:17]
B
What are you talking about?
- [89:19]
D
Like, he pulled up the covered wagon and unpacked it? No, I mean, he does a lot of his own construction work, so I don't know.
- [89:25]
A
Wow. All right, let's. What else do we got here?
- [89:30]
D
Told me to stop eating cheese yesterday.
- [89:31]
A
You're getting a lot of these lately, moving in with the girlfriends. It's probably because dudes are graduating from college and we have such a strong southern fan base.
- [89:38]
E
Is my life over?
- [89:39]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah, it's really the season. Is my life over For a lot of you? Yeah. It's never a.
- [89:47]
E
Guys are really coming to the realization that life is about to start and it's not exactly what you thought it
- [89:51]
D
was going to be.
- [89:51]
A
We had one guy write in, it was like, hey, it's not that bad. He's like, you're all going to have money. You're all going to be in the same neighborhood. You're going to be in sick houses, all your wives are going to be friends. He's like, me and my boys get together every single weekend and it's awesome when we're all neighbors. I'm like, you live in a fantasy world.
- [90:03]
E
That's cool.
- [90:04]
D
Should make a movie about you. That's awesome.
- [90:06]
A
Yeah, you need.
- [90:08]
E
I mean, when you're. Yeah.
- [90:09]
A
Signed David Spade.
- [90:11]
E
When you're this age, I feel like you need. This is why I think golf is so popular, because it's like an excuse for guys to just like do something.
- [90:18]
A
And it's.
- [90:19]
E
It's not just like, hey, we're gonna go to the bar all for six hours today. And the wives are gonna be like, what? It's like, oh, no, we're just gonna golf.
- [90:24]
D
A lot of newer wives too, are like, that sounds great. Sounds super constructive.
- [90:28]
A
Yeah. So, yeah, I actually think football. There's a lot of people that don't even like it and they're like, this is just the best. I don't have to go to church.
- [90:37]
E
Faith, family, football.
- [90:39]
A
Yeah. Is God plus seven on Sundays. All right. Love the pod. Quick stats. 6, 1 2, 15 max. Bench 345. Nice. Former D1 athlete. Avi. NBA comp. Baron Davis on the Clippers. 25. Living in a major city. Genuinely love my girlfriend at two and a half years. Wants to move to another major city together. Kind of a. Let's try this situation. Here's the thing. I can make it work with my job technically, but the work just isn't really there in that city, it's a harder sell than my boss. And the commute gets significantly longer. It's a step back any way I look at it. I'm happy where I am and honestly, I'm not ready to move in with a girlfriend yet. Regardless of the city. I'm also not close to proposing. Sounds like your girlfriend has a massive wake up call coming here. Now I'm getting heat from her friends and family about my commitment level because I don't want to make this move. You can, by the way, like the family part. You get her friends can off. Yeah, like, oh, hey, why don't you make this life changing thing? Because my buddy Doug would be more happy. You know, just.
- [91:52]
E
You don't love Doug.
- [91:52]
D
Love when Doug on the pod.
- [91:54]
E
Doug, wait, how did we get an age?
- [91:56]
A
How old? 25.
- [91:57]
E
Oh, man, this is.
- [91:59]
D
Dude, this was a good run is what it sounded like. It sounds like this was a good run.
- [92:02]
A
I don't want to make this move. I get it. Two and a half years is real time. But I'm 25 early in my career and this would not be my top choice of being honest with myself. Am I being selfish here? How do I think about what to prioritize at this stage? The career or the relationship? My own life. Life on my own terms. Is this a me problem or is the pressure. I'm getting misplaced love the pod. I do wonder, like where your girlfriend's from and kind of what's going on there. And. And is this a. Hey, I'd love to try this thing. Or is this like deep down exactly what she wants? Like all my friends that have married women from Chicago were they all ended up.
- [92:37]
D
The master plan is.
- [92:38]
A
Yeah. Like, wait, all of you guys. Magnificent it. Every one of them. So, you know, there's that. And then it was kind of like understood. You know, none of them had like necessarily like an issue with it, but it was just like the momentum every year I'd be like, hey, what's going on? What's going on? It's like looking like we probably were going to move back. I'd be like, are you excited about that? And like, I like my thing. But like, yeah, it was, it was brought up early, hey, one day, like to move home. So that's something that happens here. But like when she's saying kind of a quote, let's try this situation.
- [93:12]
E
Yeah, that's a, that's a red flag.
- [93:14]
A
What does that mean?
- [93:15]
E
Shits and giggles. You want to move is not convenient for you.
- [93:19]
A
We Live in the city you work in, Something that, like, crushes in New York City. But I love Wagon Wheels. So let's check out Nashville for a year, man.
- [93:29]
E
Do you love her? Like, I guess the. If the answer is, how much do you love her? And it doesn't sound like it's enough.
- [93:36]
A
Yeah, I don't know, though. Cause sometimes you don't know until, like,
- [93:40]
E
until you make this crazy move and kind of sidetrack your career. Like, I just. I feel like the other thing, too is if she loves you, she wouldn't. I mean, if she really loved you, she wouldn't ask you to do this
- [93:50]
A
if she knew it wasn't good for you. Yeah, tough, tough sell to the boss. Commute situation is worse. And by the way, it's going there. It's gonna step back for me, career wise. Literally, it was just her.
- [94:03]
E
That's. That's it.
- [94:04]
A
I mean, they want to talk about the selfish part here. Like, I need to know more about what is driving her to want to check out this place. Like, what. What is it? Is it. I think what you need to do to the emailer is, is this. She saw some Instagram posts about, like, checked out Zillow Sorrento and was like, that would be sick to be a couple expats a little while. And he's sitting there, like, in medical device sales, talking to his boss, going, I can still zoom in.
- [94:30]
E
I saw a great scooter. I saw a great meme about that. It's like, you know, people when they move to, like, the. The coolest, most expensive, nicest part of New City. I could see myself living here, you
- [94:41]
A
know, like, yeah, like Marin. Like, it's. You know, and then you've got San Francisco right there, and it's getting better. Yep. You're like, no kidding. It's one of the nicest places anybody could ever live. Although I prefer Southern California. You've got to really have her lock in to why this is worth you going 0 for 3 on the job stuff. And I would say, I don't think that you're necessarily being selfish. Now, if you were saying, like, what if she goes, okay, no problem, but I want to be engaged in the next year. Like, what's your answer to that? And if your answer is indifference on that one, then you already have your answer on this other part of it. Because I can't really get a clear read of, like, are you 25? But I just always tell, like, every young guy, you might want to play the hardo game about the girl and be like, this isn't that big of a deal. And then six weeks later, there's a hard launch on Instagram and you see it and you're like, oh, how you feel now, buddy? You still a tough guy about the whole thing? Or does this sting a little bit more than you thought it would?
- [95:47]
D
I think the floor of this conversation is, I'm not ready. That's like, where, that's like a safe thing where you could go be like, I'm not ready to do this, considering all these things that I have. You don't have to bring up. The commute would suck. Like, you know, he wrote the email.
- [96:00]
A
She didn't. But she's not selling us.
- [96:03]
B
No.
- [96:03]
D
And I think, and I think if you are going to have this, this is gonna be a tough conversation. I think it depends on how tough you're willing to have it get. But I think the baseline easy is I'm not ready. I wouldn't throw in, like, the commute would really suck for me because sometimes the message can get lost when you're, like, trying to add points to your side, and it just seems like you're totally against it. For what? Like, if you have a really good thing, which is your point is like, the job. I'm 25. You know, the job market isn't necessarily booming. Like, that's not what we're hearing in the News. If you're 25 and you have something good and this is taking, taking like some juice away from that, I think that's perfectly fine to even have that be your, your number one thing outside of like, yeah, I'm really not into that. So, yeah, I, I, it sounds like he hasn't come back with any pushback yet. He was just like, oh, that's interesting. That's probably what he, that's probably exactly what he said to her when she was like, you know, should we try out X? So I think I need, there needs to be some measurable pushback if you keep it as nice as you want.
- [97:01]
E
But I'm surprised Ryan hasn't brought this up either. But this is also sort of a future indicator of, I feel like we're just dumping on this guy's girl.
- [97:07]
A
So I feel bad, but I think
- [97:09]
D
we've been pretty respectful.
- [97:10]
E
But is it also kind of a future indicator of is this going to kind of be your life then? Like, she's just going to kind of push you into these things that you don't want to do for the rest of your life? Like, that's a little That's a little bit of a bummer. Like, if she doesn't. If she isn't considerate of your real needs and concerns right now that we are all saying are valid.
- [97:29]
D
I'm not sure he said any of them.
- [97:31]
A
Yeah.
- [97:31]
E
All right, so that's fair.
- [97:32]
A
But if she.
- [97:32]
E
If she's. If she's just like, is poo. Pooing that, then, like, that's kind of not an awesome sign.
- [97:38]
A
Well, he describes as, again, quote, kind of a her quote. Let's try this situation. I mean, if she were in a specific industry and this move would help her. Huge for her, dramatically, like, it has to happen here, as opposed to, like, he can have it be a slightly worse version, but he's more adaptable to this, then that's a little bit different. I need more information on what her pitch is about, why he's supposed to sacrifice all.
- [98:05]
E
I think if it existed, we would know about it.
- [98:07]
A
That's my fear. It was a good.
- [98:09]
E
If it was a good reason, we'd know about it. Yeah, he would feel better about this.
- [98:12]
A
Yeah.
- [98:13]
D
You're not a bad partner for not wanting to do this at 25 years old. That's all I'll say.
- [98:18]
A
Yeah, man. I mean, usually when you're 25, you're coming up with way more reasons to avoid any of this big time stuff. I mean, look, credit to you guys for being far more mature than I was on this stuff when I was your age. But usually it would just be a list of, like, these disqualifiers, and you'd be like, nope, two wheel drive car out. Anyway, that'll do it for the show today. Thanks.
- [98:42]
E
Wait, were you ever asked to move anywhere in a relationship?
- [98:47]
A
I mean, that's a good one for you.
- [98:49]
E
Well, you guys wanted to come back here so that you.
- [98:52]
A
But you were.
- [98:53]
E
You were aligned on that.
- [98:55]
A
I never dated a girl in Syracuse.
- [98:57]
D
She's like, do you want to come here? And I was like, I don't think I can.
- [99:00]
A
Syracuse. Just too disruptive from the Poughkeepsie upbringing.
- [99:04]
B
I mean.
- [99:04]
D
No, no. This was like when I was at
- [99:06]
A
Potsdam, and I was just like, I don't. I don't think I can.
- [99:08]
D
I. I think even now, I don't
- [99:10]
A
think I can get it. Yeah. I'm sorry. Ah, man, that's fascinating, because I think the answer to this is like, no. Yeah. I don't think I'll just find it.
- [99:20]
D
I'll just see what the guys look like there.
- [99:23]
A
Yeah. I just think there's probably anybody that spent some time with me knew that were like, well, he's not.
- [99:28]
E
He's gonna do his own thing.
- [99:29]
A
Yeah, he's very much unlikely.
- [99:31]
E
Following him.
- [99:32]
A
Yeah, yeah. There was a couple people that wanted to move in. I was like, that's a little quick. And then there was one that was like, arguably the most serious where she wanted a ring before we moved in. I was like, yeah. Let me ran into some other issues. Anyway, we'll do that. We'll do that. Full dating history pod this summer. Yeah, we got a big summer.
- [99:52]
D
I'm excited.
- [99:52]
E
Dating week.
- [99:53]
A
Yeah, dating week is gonna be huge. We're trying to get some music. We're trying to get some Elliot Smith cleared. So, yeah, we have a big dating timeline. 1. Mine's three parts. It's gonna be great. All right, that'll do it for the show today. Thanks to Kevin with us here. Tom Remote Ceruti. Kyle. My name's Ryan. You can watch our show on Netflix and please subscribe. The Ryan Rossillo Show Barstool Sports Bar Chew.