← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
We Need the NBA Draft, Richard Jefferson on Cade’s MVP Case, Plus USA Hockey Wins Gold w/ John Buccigross
01:55:55
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey Priscilla listeners, you can find every episode on Apple Podcast and Spotify prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. The Ryan Rosillo show is presented by DraftKings. On today's show I didn't get a full immersion into the tank conversation, but something that I saw with all the solutions that I think is completely ignored and I think is important to bring up to everyone. We're going to talk with Richard Jefferson who had OKC's a nice win minus some of their best players against a surging Cleveland team. Thoughts on that? His MVP stuff and do the Knicks have a major Pistons problem and some officiating stuff that I also want to ask him and Team USA wins the goal. John Buttegrasse is going to talk about an incredible victory for Team USA against Canada, their first gold medal since 1980. And we've got life advice every week, one NBA star rises above the rest. Now DraftKings sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA is raising the stakes. King of the court just got a major upgrade. 2 million in bonus bets every week, double the previous prize pool. Opt in Use your token and make a pregame $5 bet or more on the player you think will lead Tuesday night in points, rebounds and assists. If your pick finishes on top, you'll share a piece of $2 million in bonus bets. Same throne, bigger crown, $2 million in reason. Download DraftKings Sportsbook and use the code Ryan for your shot at a share of $2 million in bonus bets with the code Ryan. That's code R y e n Ryan in partnership with DraftKings Sportsbook. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MYRESET.
- [01:54]
John Buccigross
New York Call 8778-HOPE-AND why or text HOPE and WHY.
- [01:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Connecticut Call 888-78-9-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino in Kansas.
- [02:04]
John Buccigross
Wager tax pass through May apply in Illinois 21 and over in most states. VO restrictions apply.
- [02:09]
Ryan Rosillo
One token per customer token expires at
- [02:11]
John Buccigross
the start of the final NBA game
- [02:12]
Ryan Rosillo
each day when offered bet placed on days pra stat leader receives equal share of 2 million in non withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. Additional wagering restrictions apply. Terms@sportsbook.draftkings.com promos because I was in Portugal last week and we'll have a travel pod for you. I don't know when we're going to drop it. Maybe shortly. Probably shortly. I was not able to take in the full tank convention tankcon that was happening. It was happening before I left, and then it just cranked up. There's a very predictable thing in the NBA schedule. The super bowl ends usually All Star Week. People don't like, although the games were terrific and it worked change, that led to real competition. So that seemed better for a day and then flipped a Monday. There's no football to bitch about. So generally, the NBA is just right in the crosshairs and it's going to get dumped on. And when the trade deadline happened and we were doing the show from the super bowl, we had Mannix on, and he and I going back and forth. It's like, man, you think tanking's bad some years? This year is going to be terrible. So there's even more of an awareness to it because you have these teams that have protections on the picks. You have this incredible draft class. And, you know, ultimately, my other rant was, if you're running one of these teams or you own one of these teams, it's like, you guys can get mad, you can say how bad it is. And, like, from a competitive standpoint, I'd agree with you. But we're trying to best position ourselves for the most valuable assets, so fuck off. The problem with the tanking conversation, and I'm just as guilty of this, so I'm including myself in this group, is that it becomes like this carousel of somebody presents something, and then you're like, well, here's what's wrong with that, right? And that's not really productive. If you ran a business and you're sitting there and being like, all right, let's brainstorm. Bring me an armada of lifeboats. Hi, I'm Tom. If all you had people doing sitting in the room, and I'm sure this happens in some of your industries, you know, some of you listen to this right now, is you just get the guy telling you he doesn't bring any fucking ideas to the table, and he's just sitting there going, well, this wouldn't work because of this. It's like, I'm not trying to come up with a perfect solution. I'm just trying to come up with something that's a little bit better, right? Because when we talk about draft picks and being a fan of a team, especially in basketball, really what you're talking about is hopefully, like, they're selling you on hope. And if you were a GM interviewing for a job opening or a potential gm, right? Imagine if you were interviewing, say, for the Chicago Bulls, say, all right, you could be in charge of Chicago Bulls. How would you do this? Well, you could lie and say, well, no one's going to work harder than me. And I'm going. I have a new set of data points that I've been able to figure out. The guys from the Big Sky Conference are traditionally undervalued. And then if I can just trade on the margins and I can move a 40 second and make that a 36 and all this different shit. And it's like, no, if you went in there and told the truth, said, all right, well, you know, we don't have a ton of guys on this roster that are all that valuable, so we need to completely tear this thing down, hopefully hit it right in the lottery three to four years that we're in it. And then talk to me in four years, like, that's really the only way that you could interview for any of these jobs. Unless you're going to say, like, I have all these agent connections and that's going to give us preferential treatment on free agency. And if we stockpile all this cap space, like, there's only so many different ways you could pitch how you would do the job in there. And by the way, there's been tons of agents that have come over from the agent side into the team side. And I don't know that all these players just decided to go to that team because of these long standing relationships that the former agent would have making the decisions running some of these basketball teams. All right? And there's plenty of evidence that that does not happen. So it's a really, really hard job. And when I think about back to the hope point, you've got to give something to your fan base to sell them on in the future. And I know that that's how excited I would get as a fan, being like, all right, well, this year sucks. Like, that Tim Duncan lottery, for me, like, is all I could think about for maybe the entire year. And just devastated when the lottery doesn't go their way. And you're like, this sucks. But there at least was some attachment to hope for me, which I think isn't even just about sports. Right? Because if you think about sports and the relationship that you have with it, with these teams, you would never get into a human relationship. You would never marry something that bummed you out for 20 years. And then you had one good year. Like, you know what, she's brutal. Not a great mom, cheats on me. But 2011 was a wild ride, right? You would, you would never do that. But that's the relationship that we're in with these teams. So if there's just hope on the horizon, you're going to stay in the game. And I don't know if hope, like even just applies to sports. I don't, I don't know if it's an American thing, I don't know if it's a human nature thing, but if you walk into a bookstore and I was in one recently and the self help books just dominate you, you walk in and you're like, God, fuck, back off. I'm okay. I don't need this today. They're everywhere. And I was looking at some numbers this morning. The industry itself, self help books. 17 million books were sold last year in the self help category. The sales numbers in this genre of book have tripled since 2013. What does that say about us? I think I remember the first time I heard, hey, today's the first day of the rest of your life. And I was like, man, that's fucking heavy. It's not a dress rehearsal. Whoa. It's intense. Shit. I Bet of those 17 million books that were bought, 25% of them were read. That's just a guess. I don't know. But I think people like the act of buying the book because it again, provides hope. Right. So why am I talking about this? It's a good question. Draft picks or hope? Some of the solutions to solving tanking have been to eliminate the draft entirely. I think that's a huge mistake. Now, the draft is obviously my favorite thing. You already know that. So I, it could seem like I'm, I'm just incredibly biased and I don't want this thing that I love that happens every year to then disappear. You could even argue, and I would agree with you. Like, is the draft just wrong? Is the draft something that should not exist? Like, in what profession should you be told you're going to work here and you're going to be in this city and you can only go here because of draft rights. Right. You want to get like real heavy labor law about the whole thing. I probably agree that, yeah, it might be totally wrong, but it's been presented a lot and it feels like it has a lot more momentum. I don't think the NBA would ever do it, but just the sense of like, hey, whoever has the most to spend on any draft pick, they can go after that draft pick and then it's going to count against your cap. So there's going to be a cycle of years where there's certain teams in the bigger markets. They don't have, they already spend it on somebody else. And so the generational draft pick will just take the most money and go to the other place and it'll all kind of even out. And then therefore, because you don't have a draft, there's no incentive to ever tank. But that argument misses a few things. You obviously destroy the lottery, which again, is a night, so there's anticipation for it. But it's only a night, so that's not that big of a deal. You destroy the lead up to the draft and the draft itself. Now, you could argue that the anticipation of where are the draft picks going to sign? That the coverage of that, if it was his own window in front of free agency, maybe they wouldn't want to have it at the exact same time that you'd be able to figure something out where it's like, hey, we're only replacing all of this interest with something else that's just as interesting and maybe even more interesting because of this whole new process that you would have. All right, so you would, you'd be able to argue against me and say, all right, well, even if you're replacing a draft with, with the signing of draft picks or the, the new rookie class, it would be just as exciting. Okay, fine. But the point that is completely ignored in the argument to abolish a draft is that the draft picks are currency. And I'm telling you right now, in the most restrictive professional league when it comes to transactions, which is the NBA, which is why this league, there's such an incentive to tank on top of everything else, because everything else is so fucking hard to do. If you took out draft picks as currency, what would the trade deadline look like? This league does not generally trade good player for other good player. There aren't baseball trades in basketball. Yes, there are exceptions. Some fans down in Dallas would say, well, it seems like we traded a pretty good player, but generally the Desmond Bain to Orlando trade doesn't happen. Unless you were to say, well, you then now have to start including players. And that means like an Anthony Black replaces all the draft picks. But I don't know. I don't know that this league would then all of a sudden just pivot to, okay, we're going to trade, we're a good team and we need a little something else. We're going to trade a couple of our good younger guys for a more established older guy. I mean, I guess you could argue that maybe the market dynamics of how trades would work would change because you wouldn't have any of the Draft picks. Because a lot of this stuff is just like, what are you allowed to trade me? Okay, that's the price. But in a, in a league where cap space is pointless, which I've said over and over again, and all the trade restrictions, the matching salaries and all the stuff you have to do, and the first and second apron restrictions, if you take out the draft, therefore eliminating draft picks, what would you even have to fucking trade? I think that part's completely ignored in all this. The other part that I think is important too is if it were just a cap space thing where New York or LA could go after a big time player, like say Cooper Flag is available. But I'll just use a different example here, like say Utah has 40 million in cap space, but the Knicks have 20 million. I know in this aspiration world with Kawhi and how gross this whole story feels with the Clippers and what's going to happen here, I also kind of remember like how accepted it was over the years that if you were a big time free agent, it would make sense for you to sign in these bigger markets because of all the off the court opportunities. Like there was a time where we completely accepted that that was part of the deal. Right. I remember when KD ended up at Golden State and for all the conversations that were far more important around it, there was a sliver of like, hey, Katie's going to be in the tech world now and he's going to have all these opportunities off the court, which again is money. So I'm not saying like, oh, we know that KD was hooked up, but it just opened the door to all these other different investments. So why wouldn't sneaker brands, why wouldn't major companies that are located in some of the bigger, why wouldn't they be more motivated to go, okay, look, your NBA salary is going to be this, but you're more valuable to Nike if you're in any of these five cities. So we're just going to make up the difference. And therefore, I don't even know if you would call it circumventing the cap, but the player going, hey, this makes a lot more sense for me to go to this franchise. Even though on paper they can't compete with the other teams that have the most cap space. I don't know how you would stop that. I could be wrong. But I, I would think for those generational guys that come around and you know, it's probably far less than we talk about leading up to the excitement of the actual draft. Do you do you think. Do you think New Orleans is ever getting any of those guys? I don't think so. So I think it's an important part of this conversation around, like, hey, if we got rid of the draft, there you go. No more tanking. And even though I would agree there's some stuff about the draft that I don't necessarily like. Like, when I look at the NFL draft, I think players should be able to come out of high school. I also think it'd be stupid. Like, there's a part of me that like, morally goes, I think it's wrong that you have to stay for three years. You know, think Jeremiah Smith should have to play college football for three years? Absolutely not. But it's one of those rare examples of where something that is wrong is probably better. And it's probably better for the NFL. It's certainly better for college football. It's better for a lot of fans that you have to stick around for a little while. So I could apply the same stuff to the NBA. I don't think they should have to go one and done. They should have never been able. It never should have stopped. They always should have been able to leave from high school. But there was some perception stuff about it. They're trying to shift the perception of the league. I remember David Stern taking questions from reporters, asking like, you know, is the league too young? And it's like, go through the best players in this league. And generally those guys are all like, jumping straight from high school. And I don't care about the misses. Like when, when people fail as athletes, we seem to want to blame the system. And yet when people fail in life, we're not like going, oh, too much too soon. So look to emphasize it again, I would say getting rid of the draft is not the solution that I think people think it is. The gametime app gives the advantage back to the fans. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in just a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use. And the game time guarantee means you can Trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. Plus, fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. I was looking at tickets for Magic Lakers tomorrow and tickets are starting at just $67. Will I be able to figure out if the Magic are a good team? We kind of have a lot of games now and they don't look all that special. That Phoenix loss was inexcusable. Double overtime in Phoenix but speaks to the grittiness of the Suns. And then you have the Lakers losing that Celtics head to head matchup where it's like, man, if the other team is good, are the Lakers ever good? Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code RESILLO for $20 off your first purchase. That's code resillo R U S S I L L o terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code resillo for $20 off Richard Jefferson, one of the voices of the NBA Finals for ESPN and ABC. He had the broadcast of Cleveland at OKC. He also has the Richard show, which is NBA approved and road tripping, where I'll be doing some, I guess not road and road, some home and home. So Richard's going to join us throughout the rest of the NBA season. And then I'm going to jump on with Richard and his crew. Perk, who I've not talked to, I think since he told me he was going to beat the shit out of me on Twitter and Alec Clifton, I'm probably looking forward to seeing more than.
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Richard Jefferson
Oh, my God. No, trust me, Perkins. Perk is a big teddy bear. He talks tough, but he's a big.
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Ryan Rosillo
He deleted it.
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Richard Jefferson
He deleted it. Yeah, it's like, yeah, again, he's a little sensitive teddy bear, so you can get under his skin fairly easy.
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Ryan Rosillo
I'm pretty sure he didn't know who I was. And then somebody was like, hey, you work with him.
- [17:51]
Richard Jefferson
And then that sounds like, that sounds like he's like, wait, oh, that's that rhyme. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, it sounds like.
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Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, look. All right, man, let's do this. I'm. I'm psyched. I love talking hoops with you. All right, so I was so fired up. I just get back to the states late Saturday night. I'm like, I don't care that it's 10am I don't care. It's 5am I'm watching hockey and then I'm watching RJ on the call of Cleveland at OKC. Cleveland's been on this tear even more so with Harden coming in after the trade. They dig themselves into a 28.5hole. They come all the way back. Yeah, but there's no sga, there's no J dub, there's no Caruso, there's no AJ Mitchell. So, you know, a nice one by the Thunder. I. I kind of feel like it's a bad loss for Cleveland considering the lineups, but I don't know. I. Honestly, Richard, I'm asking you, can you take anything from that result.
- [18:49]
Richard Jefferson
I think the infrastructure of OKC is so impressive. They show you when they're at full strength why they are so good and why I think that they're, you know, the defending champions. I think Those games, the 12 o' clock starts, are always funky games. Let's start with that. They're always a little funky. I think given those lineups and as well as Cleveland had been playing, like, I think they should have put together a better performance, right? That. That's a, like, okay with all of those guys out to me, and you're trying to make a, hey, we're new, we're refreshed. Like, there was a physicality, the turnovers, the deflections. There was just an intensity that OKC had that Cleveland didn't in that game. Now, I stand by 12 o' clock starts, 12:30 starts. Those are a little different. Like, people don't understand, like, just on your body, your mentality. But it was the same for both teams. But given the lineups, like you said to get down that early because the amount of threes, the sloppy play, they just didn't look like they were trying to send a message where OKC was.
- [19:54]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't mean to make this about Harden so quickly in our first visit together, but that first quarter, I think, is the part of the playoff James Harden story that drives me crazy, and maybe it's part of it and why his playoff runs have been so disastrous. I know it's a strong word, but in comparison to who he's been as a regular season player and the numbers that he's put up and to see so many times when he's super uncomfortable. But it was pretty clear. It's like, hey, man, these pocket passes and these lazy throws over the top of double teams the first quarter, like, are you aware of the energy that this OKC crew, like, they're out to prove something. They're at home, their big guys are out. You guys are an absolute tear. Harden's been terrific for Cleveland, and we're going to come out with just peak energy defensively from the first possession. And next thing you know, it's like 10, nine, 10 turnovers in the first six minutes. And I wonder if that spoke to, like, something with Cleveland's. Like, you're going to go on this nice run. You might end up being the 2 seed in the East. You might be the only threat to Detroit, depending on what you think about New York and that matchup, which we'll get to, and how serious Boston is. But there's always this haunting feeling if you're a hardened team of like a, you know, and look, you can go any direction you want to go. They turned around. He was important in the comeback and all this stuff. I think you played him once in the playoffs when you lost in five games in the first round. I think you were on Dallas. Yeah. In 2015. Yeah, he took 30 free throws in the first two games. But did you guys talk about like, hey, that regular season stuff that he does? Because I'm still trying to solve the mystery how I'm, I'm not the biggest fan, but like, I can't believe there's this much of a drop off from how comfortable to uncomfortable he looks to the players. Was this anything that again, you think is important to note from yesterday or even going back 10, 11 years? Were you guys preparing for them defensively? Were like, there's just an energy deficiency that he does not raise his game from that effort from the regular season.
- [21:49]
Richard Jefferson
I wouldn't say it's a collective thing. Like you're like talking about like, oh, James isn't going to play well. Like you said, they beat us 4:1 and it's like, so let's, let's, you know. And they've had runs. He's gone to conference finals. Now there's games where you just wish there was a signature James Harden moment. Like those things and like the biggest moment where it's like. But I think there's more, more games where you're kind of like, oh, I wish we could have gotten more. I think especially at this time in his career as more of a facilitator, more of a score, not the 33 point a game scorer that he once was. I think his role is a little different. And I think in Cleveland, the first little bit that I've seen from them with him there is Schroeder Ellis, Jalen Tyson, I think is going to figure out his new role and kind of there, I think they have much better pieces and you're going to see a better version of them. Okc, that team that was running circles around them, a lot of those guys have been on the, on that team their whole career. Like they're running their second, third sets without even thinking dropping the ball. Their defense is locked in. Yes, they're not, might not be fully loaded, but you saw a fully, you saw a fully kind of loaded system that these guys were locked in. Kind of like San Antonio without Wimby. That system still is turning. And so I think for, for Cleveland, that First punch and they still are figuring out things. James is like, hey, I need you to do. Like, they're still figuring out things. So I won't put so much stock in one game at a 12 o' clock start. I won't do that. But I think Cleveland, I think it's a good humbling moment for Cleveland where they're like, hey, we still got work to do. Because that performance, given who was out on ABC, on national television to be down 20 now, they came all the way back. There's all that. But you're also like, where's the start of that intensity, especially in that game? Like, put your foot down on them and don't let him up. But it was the other side.
- [23:44]
Ryan Rosillo
I caught a. Just a ton of shit because I was like, I think if you played a full season and OKC knew they didn't have SGA or J Will, they would still make the play in.
- [23:54]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, I agree. If healthy. Well, yeah, I agree.
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Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you know, there's. There's a sense of like, hey, you've got to just look at the guys and realize like, AJ Mitchell is getting more touches, Wiggins is getting more touches, Chad is getting more touches, Hartenstein and whatever. And it's not a guarantee, but I don't think it's an absurd statement if you look at like 9 and 10. So OKC's on this run now. We're like, J Will's missed a ton of time and Caruso's missed a ton of time and SGA is going through this stretch here. Did you get any sense of their concern of like, hey, can we be the fully formed version of this team? Because it's felt like we're, you know, we're 50 plus games in and as good as they are and being the number one seed and the spurs hot after him here, it would still be kind of nice before the playoffs started if we could see like two real weeks, three weeks of this team fully formed.
- [24:45]
Richard Jefferson
Well, we got 25 games left. Like, like, they're, they're right in that range, so there's still plenty of time. Again, you see the system, the system is in place. So the guys have to come back and then step back into their roles and then play well. Shay's got to play well. J Dub's got to play well. So I don't think it's like, do you remember when the warriors got off to that great start the year they won the championship and then they had that struggle through the middle stretch. I think they had some injuries and Then they came back and they looked like they were playing like one of the best teams in the league again. But that first start was like, Clay's back. Excuse me, Clay's back. Jordan Poole is the third spot. Like, they were playing great. They had like this great stretch. Then they had a bunch of injuries, and then they got healthy right at the end of the season. But it was like. And then they ultimately won a championship that year. I think it's when you know the system and you can come back into it, like Cleveland, they're trying to figure things out. Guys are. When you have those type of injuries, like in Dallas, like, they've just seemed like they've been so banged up and beat up throughout the season, regardless who. Who's on the roster. But when you look at okc, that system flush, San Antonio systems flush. So I don't worry about them coming back with 10 games to go and getting their rhythm. I look especially, who are they going to play? The afc. They'll get their rhythm in the postseason, and so they're one of the teams I worry about least.
- [26:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. Do you think San Antonio can beat him in the playoffs?
- [26:09]
Richard Jefferson
Yes. Well, they proved in the regular season and it's like, will they? I don't know. But are they capable of. Do they have this player that's such a unique equalizer? Would I pick San Antonio in a series? Probably not. But if you told me it went to seven or that San Antonio won, I would believe you.
- [26:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, it's been a really interesting regular season matchup. Like in those handful of games, be like, this feels way, way ahead of schedule.
- [26:37]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [26:38]
Ryan Rosillo
Like you're not supposed to look this comfortable against this team. And that's like going back to the early parts of the season. So maybe it means nothing. No, it probably means nothing. There's a confidence.
- [26:48]
Richard Jefferson
There's a confidence level that if you're San Antonio, half of it is the psyche of, we can beat them, we can do this. Right. That's half the psyche. Even going back to Jordan beating the Celtics or trying to beat the Pistons. Like, there are certain people that you look at when you're trying to climb that you're like, we've got to take them off the top. And yeah, I just think that San Antonio believes that they can win and they're not afraid of them. So that could be a great series.
- [27:18]
Ryan Rosillo
If we looked at the west standings and we're kind of getting to that point here. OKC, San Antonio, Denver, Houston are your four LA's tide is they're Ahead because they've won. Loss, loss. Although Minnesota, that game against Philly with no Rudy Boubear was disgusting. No one beat. I mean Maxi just diced him up. And then the Lakers have this kind of odd thing where when they play somebody good, you're like, oh, are you guys just not that good of a basketball team? So let's maybe go as deep as you want. But does it start to become a reach to think Houston can represent the West? Like are you good with okc, San Antonio, Denver and then that being the cut off line. Even though Denver's fourth quarter against Golden State doesn't make a ton of sense either.
- [28:04]
Richard Jefferson
I do believe that the Rockets can. I do. Some of these teams are talented teams. You got to understand when you're that loaded in the west, once you get to the second round, once you win a first round matchup or once you get to the second round, it's San Antonio potentially OKC and Denver, right? Like these are the, these are the potential. So getting past the second round, like that's hard to do, right to that conference finals because you potentially could have to go to get to the finals. You could have to go Denver, then okc. So, so there's like a potential. Like that's a, that's a juggernaut that they are having to do. Do they have the talent Kevin Durant get going because they, you know, the bigs cause problems. They can see consistent growth from some of the young players. Yes, 1000%. 1000%. I could see that. And they have a lot of young players that are still growing. You know, Reed shepherd, you know, there's guys on their roster that I think are still developing into what they can be. So I think this regular season still a process.
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Ryan Rosillo
I feel like the line stops for me in front of Houston. You know, the clutch offense thing is not new in that blown game against New York and I wonder, and this might be like the former player telling the non player, but I can't like imagine some moments where if you're Jabari Smith and you're like, you know, it depends on what you believe about the Durant tweet gate here, but just lighting up teammates like that. So I guess I was just going to transition to like who was your least favorite teammate? No, I'm just kidding.
- [29:46]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, that's a weird, that's a weird one. I, I didn't really get too deep into it. I saw another burner thing. I kind of saw some of the stuff, but I didn't understand context where they came from how they. I. I don't. You know what I'm saying? I don't understand any of that stuff. So I didn't do a deep dive in it, But I. I think there's so much outside noise that. Those type of little things, no one cares about them. No one cares about.
- [30:10]
Ryan Rosillo
You don't think anyone on the team cares if it's true? Because, I mean, you know, we want to leave it open. But his denial wasn't exactly that strong of a denial. It was just like, oh, I don't want to get it. So I don't know. I would.
- [30:21]
Richard Jefferson
I would say this. We, you. Players talk more trash about each other within the locker room from their gripes that most likely some of the things that I saw that might be said might be true. It sucks that though, that. That this kind of stuff happens, but I just. I don't see their team going into a free for all. I don't see this, like a Jordan pool fight thing. I don't. I don't see that. I see this more of like a, you know, older veteran player that might be a little frustrated, talking some trash, thought he was in a safe space. And then some things got exposed. That's what I see. Because I'm like, they're still playing. They're still an elite team with an elite leader. I typically try and, like, drown out that noise and just kind of let it go if I'm in that locker room.
- [31:09]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, do you get over, like, I'm trying to think of all your different stops, you know, maybe it was. It was just so different when you were younger because you don't want to say anything. And then when you're older, you're just like, I don't, you know.
- [31:22]
Richard Jefferson
No, you have beats, man. You have, like, even within the team. I remember I was on Dallas when Rondo and Rick Carlisle were going at it. You know what I'm saying?
- [31:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, that must have been fun.
- [31:31]
Richard Jefferson
Oh, that was a unique. That was unique. And then Rondo goes on and wins a championship. It's like, I say this to say is like, locker rooms can be intense. I've seen far worse things said player to player, coach to player. Like, I've seen far worse, though. I'm not saying that it doesn't suck. I'm not saying that we, like, we don't need this. I'm just communicating that I've seen teams push this type of stuff aside and just continue playing.
- [31:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think that that's the part where it's just so fast. And you're flying to the next city and you're getting up and you've got to prepare. And Jabari Smith wants to have good games and Shingoon wants to have good games. And honestly, you can watch the tape of some of these fourth quarters and realize Durant, Durant probably thinks these things about all these guys, whether or not he said it, because there are too many possessions where I see him just kind of looking around. And granted, if Reed shepherd had called Jabari Smith the R word, it probably doesn't go over as well as Durant being allowed to get away it a little bit more if he in fact was the guy behind Allegedly, which, yeah, allegedly, again, the denial wasn't exactly super strong.
- [32:38]
John Buccigross
Let me say this.
- [32:39]
Richard Jefferson
If there are some truths to that, then I think there can be. There could be some growth to be had, right? There can be some growth to be had. It's like, you can't take everything personal in this industry. People are going to write bad articles about you, reporters are going to talk bad about you. Like podcast hosts are going to break down your game. And yes, yes, it is different when it comes from a teammate. But like, you got to be able to have thick skin where your teammate can cuss you out and say you're playing like, you know, trash and you, blah, blah, blah, pick it up. Like, quit being this, like, players talk so intense. Right? And so I trust, because he has a standard and it's like if you're not making the right play, if you're not doing the extra hustle, like, he doesn't care if there's drama or bs. He just wants performance. And I think that's the way he coaches him. So I believe a lot in IME as a leader also.
- [33:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I love IME in that role. If there's the right coach, personality wise, to be like, hey, get over your shit and let's play. Like, I know they blew that game against New York, which was kind of an up and down game and it was fun, but it was just, look, their fourth quarter stuff sucked before all these burner allegations.
- [33:48]
Richard Jefferson
Twitter burner second most. Like, like being down like double digits and still winning. I think they have the second most of Cleveland, which to me is one of those indicators. Are you real? They're like their second. Like Cleveland and Houston are first and second and being down double digits and still coming back to win makes sense. You follow me?
- [34:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, so. Yeah, so.
- [34:13]
Richard Jefferson
So my thing initially is like, why is Houston and Cleveland the number four and the number two number four seeds? Why Are they going down double digits so much and then having the ability to come back? Something's not right from their overall game. You shouldn't be down that many times and having to come back. It's a great to be like, hey, we keep fighting. But you don't. You're not. You're a talented team on both sides. You shouldn't be down that and having to come back against so many opponents.
- [34:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Brunson got his third offensive foul. I still think the off the ball transition, like street light charge should be illegal. Like if you're just coming down and the ball's over there and you just stop in front of Shang.
- [34:56]
Richard Jefferson
People do it like we used to do with Shaq and stuff. Try and get it.
- [34:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause it looks like a charge. You can argue it's a charge, but it's also like bullshit because the guy, his head is usually turned. It's away from the. It's exactly. It's away from the play. So Brunson gets his third one and he may shouldn't have challenged it the way the call was like he wasn't going to win the challenge. And I just. The thing I loved about him though is they caught him just reading his lips that he's like flopping ass, like. And he was just talking to himself too because he had just had it with Brunson.
- [35:25]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [35:25]
Ryan Rosillo
And you know, there was some stuff in that game that I really liked. What Houston was doing defensively against Brunson and making it hard and showing him the double team, you know, blitzing him off the screen, keeping two with him. And then amen is just so spectacular that he could kind of play safety while he's like double teaming. Which then transitioned, I think perfectly into this. All right, before we move on, a quick word on the tool that keeps people's workflow tighter than my takes. Microsoft 365 copilot the world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 copilot is your AI assistant for work, built into work. Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other Microsoft 365 apps you use, helping you quickly write, analyze, create, and summarize so you can cut through the clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn more@Microsoft.com m365cpilot it's not a question, it's a statement. You take it wherever you want to go. New York has a massive Detroit pistons problem. That's 3, 0. The scores are by 31, 38. And then 15 at the end of last week. And I think they are armed with just long dudes that can clog up the Brunson thing. So even though they got him last year and I. There's a lot about this Knicks team I like.
- [36:52]
Richard Jefferson
There was a lot about watching. There's a lot about that series last year also. Like, if you.
- [36:56]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, so go for it.
- [36:57]
Richard Jefferson
No, I'm just saying, if you go back to that series, there was a couple of possible missed calls. There was a clutch shot by Brock. There was like, games could have. Like, that could have very easily been a 4, 2, 4, 3 Detroit series, in my opinion. Like, it was three calls, four plays away from Detroit moving on. And again, we're not playing the whatever game, but that just shows you how close those teams were last year. And then for Detroit to look like they took a leap, which they have, obviously, and New York hasn't quite taken that leap. And that's the thing. They were very even last year in that postseason match. Detroit this year is coming out playing like this. They've gone up a level. New York hasn't gone up a level. That's just a plain and simple. They're still a very good team.
- [37:48]
Ryan Rosillo
With Kat being worse. They're worse. Like, I liked him better last year, although I think Mitchell, and maybe that's just me catching up to the Mitchell thing. Like, I just feel so much better about him now as like a real weapon, a matchup weapon, and these extra possessions that he provides you because the offensive rebounding stuff. So it's marginally worse. You know, the pace is basically even or whatever. But the cat regression thing is a lesser version of them. Like, when he's at 40% on that pick and pop, you can hate the guy, but that's brutal. It's dangerous. The rebounding's great. And now this is kind of like the worst shooting that we've gotten from them. So I think it's safe to say, like, with Kat in a closing lineup, if he's going to shoot like this, this is a less scary team.
- [38:25]
Richard Jefferson
Offensively, it is like, well, because he's such. He's one of the best offensive weapons in the league. And so if he's not playing at his level, if he's an all NBA player, that's playing at an all star level, that's a problem if you're an all Star. Like, if you're an all star player, that's. That's playing at, like, a very good player. Like, that type of regression can affect the team because you need progression or you need younger players to develop. They have all of the, you know, the og they have all of these guys. So sometimes you can't get within. You have to be more efficient at what you're doing, bringing in a new coach, a new system. And even Mike Brown talks about it very early on that the 1 through 4 in his offense is a very similar and then the 5 is a different kind of position. So they didn't want to throw too much at Kat in the beginning. They wanted him to feel comfortable. But ultimately there has been a regression and I think some of that is him getting comfortable in what they're asking of him, where to be the spots that he needs to be and where he. There's a different flow. Brunson's always going to look like Brunson. You're going to try and stop him. But the rest of the offense is flowing different and a Cat doesn't seem very comfortable and that they got. They have to figure it out. I don't know the answer to it, but Mike Brown was talking about that in the first 10, 15 games of the season about how he was trying to give Cat so much at a time because of the way the offense was and how they were trying new things. And so it hasn't progressed from that spot. That's what makes it difficult.
- [39:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. And look, Cat's not going to be. He's back at like 39% for this month. So he probably ends up closing stronger and he's never. This is where I think sports are late with stuff is you could see somebody just have a bad shooting year and you go, hey, do we need to maybe change how we want to close out on somebody? And I don't, I don't care. Like, I just never see it. Somebody can be having a terrible season and if he has the resume of a shooter, if he has the rep as a guy, you're still going to close hard to him. So I don't see stuff where it's like, hey, let's all of a sudden play off Cap because he's average from three across this year and again, like I said, 39% in February. Something that I do think is interesting
- [40:33]
Richard Jefferson
with him though, he's still shooting 36% at volume for like, you know, like Jalen Brunson shooting 37%. Now I know he's one of the best efficient three point shooting bigs, but like, like that percentage is. He's not like, it's not like down to 31, it's not 33 like it is respectable. He's just not elite right now and I don't think he's done a good job of navigating that. And I think some of those, the three point percentage drop, I think some of that is him not feeling as comfortable in the system. Are still trying to navigate that. And like you said, he's 40 this year or up to 40 this past this month.
- [41:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. I'm probably, I regret spending this much time on it because it's, it's a handful of makes over a hundred shots. But there's also something else. When you've watched how they've closed in some of the spots with Mitchell Robinson, like there's been some matchup times where Mike Brown's gotten super frustrated with him with a stupid with fouls and it just felt like it was turning and you know, I think one of the more interesting things about him is, you know that head down bulldozer. I'm just going to freak out on everybody. You know, he started to get called for that underarm hook of the opposite arm where the ball is right. And I, I cannot believe how much the league has allowed this to happen. Harden got called for it in your game. He couldn't believe it. And it's not because now he got bumped for first, which I thought you were great.
- [41:58]
Richard Jefferson
Yes, right.
- [42:00]
Ryan Rosillo
And then he went for the hook, which he does all the time. Jaylen Brown actually get called for the push off. I don't know if you've done it like seven times against the Lakers and they finally were like, hey, you guys started talking about this though a little bit and that relationship between the player and official. I know because like you went through the official camp and then you called an exhibition game. You're kind of the go to guy and all this stuff. But I'm, I'm with you in what you were talking about on the broadcast is that there has to be some equity that is lost and that human nature kicks in. If you are somebody who incessantly complains and complains even when you are dead to rights. Guilty. And I, I'm surprised more players, maybe it's a competitive thing and you just can't help yourself, which I would totally understand. But it's surprising to me some of the guys and there's coaches that are just as guilty of it where they just have to complain throughout the entire game even when there's no case that they're in the right at all.
- [42:53]
Richard Jefferson
Well, again, let me say this part of the reason why I was even invited into the referee circle, right? They didn't just be like, hey, we're picking a random player. I had a very good relationship with the refs. Jason Kidd, my rookie year, grabbed me, pulled me, took me to the center court and say, hey, this is my rook. Hey, rook. Introduce yourself and say, hey, I'm Joey Crawford. And Dan Crawford, he's like, now. Now, you know their names.
- [43:17]
Kyle
Don't.
- [43:17]
Richard Jefferson
Don't call him Mr. Rap. Don't say, he's giving me advice. So then after that, every single game, I would just walk up to the referees, hey, what's going on, Richard, man? Where you guys going? And then you get to know them by. By. And it's just like, so that there's that equity that you're talking about. And I say that to say is that not everybody has that personality. I'm not saying that. But there is equity amongst the reps. They are human beings. They work with you. They know your game. They study your game. They know if you're going under on a screen. They know when you're switching a screen. They have to know the defense, because if you're switching and the big roles and you switch underneath, but if you're trying to get underneath the screen and back and the big roles, you. That becomes a legal screen. So the referees have to pay attention to what defenses and stuff that you're running. That was very, very new to me, that I was like, damn. They have to study our defenses. Because if I go under and then we switch normal, if I try and go under and the big rolls me down and I can't get back under, that's an illegal screen. And so when the referees are paying so much attention to what you're doing, how you're doing, they do have people that they like. They have people that they don't like because they are human. It doesn't mean that the call sway. It means that you're able to have a more civilized conversation and get your point across. That's what it is. It doesn't sway. You're gonna get calls. It's just like, hey, look, this is what it is. And if a person goes up to him that never complains, that never gets frustrated or never gets technicals, they take more account to that. If it's Draymond, if it's, you know, somebody like Dill, if there's somebody that's very loud and demonstrative at all times, they tune that out. They are human beings. And so having a relationship with the ref especially, doesn't mean you can't get mad at them, but it's like, I've had things where I'm like, that's a blanking foul, blah, blah. And the referee didn't give me the technical. And I come out at halftime like, hey, my bad. I'm just kind of a bad day. I apologize for talking to you like that. They're like, rich, it's cool. You never do that. Like, it's fine.
- [45:08]
Kyle
And.
- [45:09]
Richard Jefferson
But not every. I'm just saying that's little bitty examples of, like, my dynamic relationship with the referees and how I believe that there's a level of equity and be earned, and there's a level of. That can be tuned down, too.
- [45:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I think it's common sense, and I. But I also think some guys just cannot help themselves.
- [45:25]
Richard Jefferson
They cannot help. And that's it. That's a reflection on that. When people talk about the Luca and the Draymond and the guys that are always kind of like, battling with the officials, that part is something that I think. I think both of them, like, I think if you were to ask them, they would wish they were a little bit better. Right. And I think Luka has gotten better. He's gotten better than what he was two, three years ago during the finals run. I think Luka has gotten tremendously better in shape. I think there's less fatigue. And I think, like, he has. I. He's still Luka, and he's still getting on the rats because he's so active, but I think he's gotten more improved.
- [46:01]
Ryan Rosillo
He was more focused on Chris Dunn in that Clay and that Clippers game. I mean, he was just. I can't believe, like, Chris Dunn didn't lose his. At some point.
- [46:08]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [46:08]
Ryan Rosillo
On him. Especially when you're like, all right, you're going to talk shit to me when you're getting some of these foul calls that you get that are sometimes well deserved and sometimes they're total. I would put Luca right up there with anybody else. Like, I don't care what the free throw numbers are, because they're also absurd with him. But, you know, you're using a screen, and then I'm trying to recover around the screen, and then you have the angle on me, and then you get a call and you're going to. You're going to lay into me like this. Like, I was. I'm surprised Chris Dunn hadn't snapped until he kind of finally had had enough. He didn't really snap. And then Austin Reeves got in there and kind of diffused it a little
- [46:43]
Richard Jefferson
bit there that Luca is not shooting more free throws than Kobe Bryant, than Tracy McGrady, than. Than the elite school. James Harden in his prime. Like, he's not that. That's what I'm saying. We don't like the. Some of the kind of like, like arguing with the officials. There's things that we. But if you look at statistically the numbers and free throws that he is shooting, what, how he gets to him. Same with Shay, right? Like, I average. Shay was nine free throws. I averaged eight free throws before my career. And I wasn't a quarter of the player that Shay was. If you're good at that, that is just.
- [47:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but you kiss the ref's ass. You just admitted. So that's why.
- [47:18]
Richard Jefferson
Yes, that's part of it. I 100 agreed. But I'm just working the game, right? I'm just working the game. I'm doing what I gotta do.
- [47:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Everybody knowing you, getting to know you a little bit. I'm like, oh, yeah, he must have been great. Like Scott. Like Scott. Can you believe these guys getting on your.
- [47:32]
Richard Jefferson
I was a artist. But the referees could come to me as like, hey, Richard, was that a foul? And I was like, nah, I didn't really foul. And they like, they would be like, okay, you know, for their own. Or like, hey, Richard, did he.
- [47:41]
Ryan Rosillo
But down the stretch, you're playing the long game.
- [47:44]
Richard Jefferson
Playing long because it's more of like, there's like a. Hey, when we talk, like, I kind of tell you real stuff. This is what's going on, right? And I got technicals. I probably had 30, 40 tacticals in my career. So, like, I wasn't like, just super, like chummy chum with everybody. But, like, there's. There's a value to it.
- [48:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, look, I mean, Luke SJL, these guys are great. Luke is at like almost 11 free throws a game. And 25% of it's gross. And SGA is awesome. And I may vote for him for MVP, but there's that baseline pull up where he extends the off leg out all the time and falls down. And he gets the call more often than he should. And it's okay for all of us to say it's fucking gross. And I wish it didn't happen. And I wish every single fan base that had a foul baiter or somebody who. Who benefited from free throws could just fucking admit that their guy gets a ton of extra free throws and it's okay. You don't have to love, you don't have to defend every single thing. This isn't Your presidential candidate that you're backing here, it's just your star, who is awesome. These are hall of Famers. But you can't tell the rest of us that we're wrong for being grossed out by maybe 25 to 30% of the cost. Brunson doesn't even get that many free throws. And I love Brunson. I love watching Brunson get to a spot and all that stuff. But there's stretches of Brunson that are unwatchable.
- [48:53]
John Buccigross
I.
- [48:54]
Richard Jefferson
This is what I'm saying. I only compare, and I'm not disagreeing with you, that, like, some of these foul calls are putting defenders and referees in tough spots. They'll get the benefit of the doubt as MVPs and All Stars do. I am just communicating that their free throw numbers for the top five to seven scores in this league are fairly on par with the top scores in the last 10, 15 years. That's the only thing I'm saying. Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce was getting 10 free throws a night. Like, when you go back and really look at, like, guys that were utilizing that free throw, and I don't want to say foul baiting, that's a new term using the gray area, the draw, the fouls. Tim Duncan, when you put your hand
- [49:34]
Ryan Rosillo
out doing the swipe, the Duncan one, when. When the hand is extended and he just went under it with both arms.
- [49:40]
Richard Jefferson
That's what I'm saying. So it's like, it's. It was. It's been going on since the dawn of time. So I just don't want people to be like, oh, this is trash. New basketball. It's like, no, this has always been the case. We're just talking about it differently because there's more communication about it.
- [49:56]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, I promise we're not going to do more on that. I just, you know, catching up here. Let's do something really positive then.
- [50:01]
Richard Jefferson
Okay.
- [50:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Will you have an MVP vote? Do you not know? Did you have one last year?
- [50:06]
Richard Jefferson
I did have one last year. I did have one last year, and I believe I should have won this year.
- [50:12]
John Buccigross
I'm not.
- [50:13]
Richard Jefferson
I think I said no for a couple years. And then I had some people say, like, hey, Richard, you're part of the problem. Like, if you are you. No one's watching more. No one's doing more. Like, you really should. You know what I'm saying? Because they're gonna give it to somebody, and there's not many people out there that are as locked in on it. And I didn't like the money aspect of it. I didn't like some like you know, like the all NBA votes. I like there were certain things that I didn't really want to be like like that with players. But then there is a responsibility from I think the position that you sit in where you're watching the best players at the best moments that you should utilize that for a vote. I'm going to tell you right now that I think as much as we've talked about Jalen Brown and being like the sleeper, Shay's having an outstanding year with what he has done. Obviously prior to the injury, the 20 point a game streak, Jokic is back and like he's averaging a triple double. He's going to be the triple double king in just a couple more years. I say all that to say is that Cade Cunningham to me is having the MVP season like right now at the end the season where to start? I believe Detroit is the number one overall seed over everyone right over okc. I think they were slightly maybe the same. So if you're.
- [51:30]
Ryan Rosillo
The other half came up one less loss, which seems impossible, you know,
- [51:36]
Richard Jefferson
24 to one start.
- [51:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Right.
- [51:37]
Richard Jefferson
So that's what I'm saying. I'm like Cade Cunningham is not getting enough. Like this guy's an MVP traditionally. What we see from MVP's number one, number two seed, like leading performance, clutch game performance, dominant like Jalen Duran has made great strides all star. I think he's going to be a perennial all star. But also when you look at the second scoring option from his team, like last year I thought he might have had the worst second best player on his team in the postseason.
- [52:11]
Ryan Rosillo
That's probably a lot. I mean I have to go through it but like who's the second best player on that team? Detroit Duran just wasn't even. Yeah, it wasn't even close to what he is this year. I mean Dennis Schroeder has a ton of possessions. Like Schroeder's running a lot of your closing a playoff game possessions. And not to dump on him, but he probably is the third guard.
- [52:29]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah. this point when you look at like even what they did last year and then the elevation again, it's like that's Cade Cunningham. He's. He's an absolute monster and I think right now he's first team all NBA. And I think Jokic and Shay, they're on historic streaks and the things that they're able to do. But if we're talking about team dominance and like elevating your team, this feels like a derrick Rose type MVP year for Cade.
- [52:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm glad you brought it back to that because originally we were talking New York and Detroit and the issues the Knicks have had with them. Then it went down a different road because I'd rather be positive about it because the K part is. Is real and, you know, just how control. In control he is of the possessions. Like, for the longest time, when I would think about, like, hey, ball in somebody's hands, like, give me the best case scenario of all the different options, I felt like peak Luca was the best option. Like, all right, here we go. Like, get us a good look, slow it down in the paint, get your body, ride the defender, get free, get foul. They're just a brilliant pass of the corner or somewhere else. Like, that may have been the single best possession. You could talk about the SGA mid range. You could talk about all the yokich options. Depends on how deep he probably has the ball. That's probably a little bit different just on the ball than Luca, but right now I feel like Cade is part of that conversation. I don't know what the point per shot, point per possession, you know, numbers are. He. He love me. Some nights where he has huge scoring and maybe takes a little bit more, there's a few more shot attempts. But I think it also speaks to the roster around him. And, you know, when I look at, like, you know, the miracle of Durant is that he's that tall and has been able to kind of get to his spot. And the hand with the handle where, like, the best version of Chet, like a B version of Chet Holmgren, still a max player because he's a stretch five and protects the rim. But I think even in that game yesterday, I was kind of expecting, like, I wonder if he'll kind of get it going, like, off the dribble a little bit more. But I think it's still so hard to ask from somebody that big. Now, the point that I'm making here is K, it's not as tall as Durant. He's clearly not as tall as chat. But as far as a tall player that can very smoothly get to wherever he needs to get to. And he doesn't need to be blazing fast, but he's not somebody that, you know, at times in Luka, I feel like, is he getting tired? Is he want to go slower? Because it's just a little bit easier than having to try to go fast. I feel like Cade is in this conversation of, like, hey, can you get us a good look to close a tight playoff game because of your size, your finishing ability and the vision that he has. It feels like a really dangerous package, which again is a very short list of players.
- [55:05]
Richard Jefferson
Everything that you said was per. Like, like no notes. He really is. He's now it's like James Harden, you, LeBron, there's certain guys, you put the ball in your hands, he can score, he's going to make the right play. He like, there's just something that these players do because of their, their infinite amount of ability, right. The size, the combination of size, athleticism, ball handle, vision, all these things that you're like, here, take the ball. Let us know whatever you're going to go do. And I think Cade has really elevated his game. I think he was injured a bunch his first couple years. Detroit was struggling. They went through a bunch of coaches And I think J.B. bickerstaff, right, like coach of the year candidate, very, very high up there. I think there's other coaches that, that you could definitely in that space. But I think what he's done as a number one overall seed is Shai and Jokic. Their statistical numbers are just so like off the chart. But from like a player that's leading his team in an MVP caliber way, I think Cade Cunningham has. There's something to be said about finishing number one and if you can finish up number one over overall. I think that to me is always more impressive than a bunch of like statistical numbers from the three seed, from the four seed, from the five seed. That just.
- [56:24]
Ryan Rosillo
To me it's also pretty crazy too. He's just looked it up again. He's 20th in usage rate. Like, and you compare that to the other guys that the.
- [56:34]
Richard Jefferson
Okay.
- [56:35]
Ryan Rosillo
All the time.
- [56:35]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, yeah. And so there's an official league, how they move the ball, the different things and then they get it to him late. He picks his spots to be aggressive. I'm sorry, but Cade, to me, if you were to stop the season right now with Shay being out, we're making this up. We got 25 more games to go. But I think he would be like right there in that.
- [56:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh.
- [56:56]
Richard Jefferson
If they finished three, four games above everybody else, how do you not like with Jalen Brown's had an amazing year also. I think they're both doing the same. Like Jalen Brown's had an amazing. But I would also say like that's a surprising. We're surprised that. That Boston's playing as well without Jason Tam and the roster. Roster chain. Are we not surprised at what Detroit's doing right now?
- [57:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm still probably more surprised at Boston. I just can't believe that they could have this kind of reset year and then still be this good. Where the two seeds certainly in play. I don't know who I'm picking them against in the second round, which may continue to feel disrespectful. I'll ask you this, though. I was watching that game yesterday. We know Kyrie's sort of grandfathered into best handle we've ever seen. And is it still no J kid?
- [57:49]
Richard Jefferson
No, no. I thought you were going to go someplace else. No, no. Kyrie, Kyrie.
- [57:53]
Ryan Rosillo
I was not going to say Jaylen Brown is the greatest, second greatest handle we've ever seen.
- [57:56]
Richard Jefferson
What were you going to say? I felt like I know where you were going.
- [58:00]
Ryan Rosillo
I kind of want to know what you think, because there's no way.
- [58:03]
Richard Jefferson
What?
- [58:05]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't think there's any way you know where I was going. So now I want to know what you think I was going to do.
- [58:10]
Richard Jefferson
And were you going to talk about Pritchard?
- [58:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Holy shit, you nailed it.
- [58:15]
John Buccigross
Yeah.
- [58:15]
Ryan Rosillo
I was like, no, does Pritchard. Is Pritchard in the top five handle conversation? You're just shaking your head right now.
- [58:21]
Richard Jefferson
Well, that's why I knew. I've kind of felt like when you say, well, you know, Kyrie has the best handle. And I was like, no, don't do this. Don't do like. And now, yes, Pritchard.
- [58:29]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm not saying Pritchard's handle is better than Kyrie. No one's handle is better than Kyrie's. It's just.
- [58:32]
Richard Jefferson
You're talking about. Where does he rank as far as guards with a strong handle.
- [58:36]
Ryan Rosillo
He's up handle.
- [58:37]
Richard Jefferson
That's all 100% up there. I don't think some of handle is Jamal.
- [58:43]
Ryan Rosillo
He doesn't qualify.
- [58:44]
Richard Jefferson
No, no, no. Because I think he's got such a control. He's got like a handle like Chris Paul. His handle is so compact. He can get his way. He's not Jamal Crawford hang crossover over people. He's not there. You know, I'm saying he's not one of those guys. Like, he doesn't have a lot of whippity whop to him. They would say, like, just kind of like, like, hey, like. But he's just got such a strong,
- [59:05]
Ryan Rosillo
powerful handle that it's too hickory for you.
- [59:08]
Richard Jefferson
No, I'm not. I just compared him to Chris Paul. Chris Paul did.
- [59:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I know. Yeah, but I know what you're talking about. You're talking about like something different no, I'm not. Because it sounds like you are being disrespectful of, like, the cone drills.
- [59:22]
Richard Jefferson
I literally compared him to Chris Paul. Like, the point.
- [59:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. All right.
- [59:27]
Richard Jefferson
I'm saying that his handle is similar to that. That's the Jamal Crawford and Kyrie. There's levels to handles. Right. And there's layers. Jason Kidd didn't have, like, an Allen Iverson crossover. You never saw him do that. But you.
- [59:42]
Ryan Rosillo
He was just so big.
- [59:43]
Richard Jefferson
So big, and it's so strong. Like Darren Williams, like that. There's different handles. And I'm saying Peyton Pritchard is in that elite guard. You're not taking it from him. Right. He's in that like. Like, Chris Paul style of ball handling where it's just so efficient. He can get anywhere on the floor. He's got some stuff to him, but he's not doing Allen Iverson crossovers. He's not doing Jamal Croft. Like, those guys get to the neck. That's the Kyrie those guys get to, though. That's the second tier. So I would put Peyton Pritchard as an elite, elite NBA point guard. Handle. Elite.
- [60:16]
Ryan Rosillo
All right. I think we got there. Yeah. You know what always amazes me with him is, like, how deep he can get in the paint, amongst the trees, and he still finds a way to get a little space.
- [60:26]
Richard Jefferson
He does a lot of Nash dribbles. Like, he'll dribble underneath and, like, kind
- [60:29]
Ryan Rosillo
of that hockey dribble.
- [60:30]
Kyle
I love it.
- [60:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I love that you referenced the National.
- [60:32]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, he does that a lot, and that's understandable. Like, you get underneath and you're like, okay, well, let me reset and come back out. Maybe the big messes up and comes out with me now. I could throw the ball into the big. So there's things that work with that, and I think that's where I think his handle is special because he does it within the game. He's not just like, oh, let me go get a bucket. He's got, like, legitimate. I want to get to a spot or get to a pick and roll or get to something like that. But let's not get crazy now.
- [61:01]
Ryan Rosillo
How much did you enjoy Arizona closing out that Houston game the way they did?
- [61:06]
Richard Jefferson
I will be very honest. I don't watch very many Arizona games because I. They're the. Yeah, it's. I do watch, like, a little bit, but I. I am like this. You know how some people are with, like, actual, like, their sports teams, like Celtics fans? I'm like that with Arizona Bass. I get emotionally Affected by it. So I, like, I get anxiety when Arizona plays. So, like, it's hard for me to kind of just like, sit back and, like, watch and enjoy. So I typically am a check in the score guy, but I'll watch some big moments. I'll probably watch two or three a year. For a year that I like tournament. I watch every game. But, like, throughout the season, I just get, like. I get like, actual angst. I feel like I feel what it feels like to be a fan, which I don't have that in very many things.
- [61:51]
Ryan Rosillo
You're like Billy Bean, except you're not working for the team.
- [61:54]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, Yeah. I just. I get a little nervous. I kind of. I'll turn on the. Turn on the game. If they're up, I'll keep watching. If they go down, I'll turn it off. Like, I'm one of the, Like, I'm like, I don't. Like.
- [62:04]
Ryan Rosillo
I was really impressive to do that to that Houston team at that place. I watched a lot of college basketball this weekend. I love that game.
- [62:11]
Richard Jefferson
I watched. I watched some of the Kansas game, the Houston game. Obviously, you know, like, they're a juggernaut. I've seen the talent on these teams, and I've watched some. You know, they've got some future NBA players on those teams. But as far as, like, watching that game, I did not watch. I kind of check into the. The score and like, okay, we won, and then we lost two in a row. We lose one game, then we lose two in a row, then we kind of wake back up. So there. There was some anxiety floating through. Through my Arizona blood.
- [62:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Fair. Fair. Because it looked like they were going to lose that one. And then they turn it on. That is Richard Jefferson. NBA Finals. NBA on ESPN and abc. The Richard Show. And of course, road tripping with Alec Clifton and Kendrick Perkins. I'll be jumping on.
- [62:52]
Richard Jefferson
And Fry is there, too.
- [62:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, no. Channing. Fry is also there, too.
- [63:01]
John Buccigross
Yes.
- [63:02]
Richard Jefferson
He was the originator. I got.
- [63:04]
Ryan Rosillo
He's the og.
- [63:06]
Richard Jefferson
I'm gonna clip this. We're gonna show it on.
- [63:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, because in the beginning, we talked about Alan, we talked about Perk. We didn't mention Channing.
- [63:14]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [63:14]
Ryan Rosillo
So I would.
- [63:15]
Richard Jefferson
I would be. I would be wrong if I did not mention my brother.
- [63:19]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm gonna walk into a hornet's nest.
- [63:20]
Richard Jefferson
Oh, my God. This gotta be the. The first clip. I can't wait.
- [63:23]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, you're the man. We'll talk soon. Thank you.
- [63:26]
Richard Jefferson
Appreciate you.
- [63:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Tastytrade has a suite of probability tools so you can make smarter picks for your portfolio. Though it can't help you fill out your NCAA bracket, you could trade stocks, options, futures and more all in one platform. Tastytrade offers low commissions, including zero commission on stocks, so you can keep more of what you earn. The platform is packed with trading features like backtesting, which lets you simulate your trading strategies using 10 plus years of data so you can test your ideas about potential Cinderella stocks. Active traders can use features like Ladder trading mode, One Click Trading and smart order tracking to manage their positions during crunch time. If you want to learn to trade or discover new strategies, tastytrade has dozens of educational courses you can access for free with your account. Get live stellar support from tastytrade's Deep Bench of Experience Trade Desk reps during trading hours. Visit tastytrade.com Barstool today tastytrade Inc. Is a registered broker, dealer and member of FINRA, NFA and SIPC. You're home for hockey. Who didn't love that game? 5am out on the West coast, ready to go. First goal wakes you up. John Buchegras, you know who he is, joins us here on the podcast. I can't ever say your name without thinking about Van Pelt doing the Chris Burn. They know who we do ESPN's cover, part of ESPN's NHL coverage. Also stream cast with Frank Saravalli. Frankly, Hockey Victory plus YouTube five days a week. Yeah, yeah, let's get it in. All right. So a lot to talk about with this game. I just, as a hockey guy, I want to know your expectations when things were ready to drop yesterday.
- [65:08]
John Buccigross
Yeah, this is, you know, the two best in the world. Everybody wanted the game from fans, players, administrations, running the two countries. This is what they wanted, especially Team usa. You want to go through these guys and they got it. And it absolutely delivered 10 out of 10 in every single possible way. This was the plan 30 years ago when the USA Hockey started. The National Development program identified the best young hockey players in the country. Teenagers, late teenagers, bring them to Michigan, Ann Arbor. They go to local high schools. They stay with billet families. We're going to bring them together, create this USA Hockey national team. You know, under 18, under 17, under 16 play tournaments around the world and try to create superstars. 1996 was the year it started. That's the year Jack Eichel was born. And here we go now, 30 years later, and we have superstars on par with Canada. More than just one, you know, we have Auston Matthews, Jack Eichel, Quinn Hughes, Jack Hughes number one overall draft picks. And it all culminated yesterday in this gold medal performance beating Canada.
- [66:17]
Ryan Rosillo
This game was brutal for Team usa. I think the talent, especially with the forwards and with Sammy Reinhart's your 13th forward for team Canada, you're talking about incredible depth and Team USA goes up one zero. And then from that point on it just felt like, hey, like how do you. I mean, there's one thing to keep it 1 0, but like, how do you not lose this game? What stuck out to you is I don't know if it's killing the five on three. I don't know if it's obviously Hellebox, a huge part of this. We want to get to talking about Connor Hellebock's incredible game, but this is just one of those games where you're watching it and I know McKinnon's taking a ton of shit afterwards, being like, you tell me who the better team was and you're like, hey, you guys look like you're the better team. And congrats on second place though.
- [67:05]
John Buccigross
He could have had four goals. I watched the game again last night, Ryan, without again, because I've kind of lost my fandom for all my favorite sports teams growing up. I know it's kind of a cottage industry now to be a national broadcaster and root for a college team or a pro team. I just was never comfortable doing that. And so I've lost my fandom for my favorite teams and I kind of miss that. But yesterday I felt like a fan again. I was just absolute fanboy watch with my son Jack, which was great memories for me growing up. And we were just acted like a couple of 12 year old screaming falsetto fans when Jack Hughes scored that goal. And that was really cool for me. And so I watched the game again last night and I realized, okay, this game was closer than it felt. It did feel like Canada had the better chance, which they definitely probably did. The 5 on 3 usually helps a team who kills it, but it didn't. It actually got Canada going and then they started slowly dominating because halfway through the game the shots on goal were equal. USA had their chance. In fact, they weren't shooting enough. Remember Auston Matthews there wide open, the 60 goal scorer decides to pass it. Matthew Tkachuk had a one timer, decides to pass it. They were overpassing a bit, so I felt like they were calm and they. And they were under control. And I don't ever feel like they were definitely on their heels a bit because Canada and John Cooper played the hell out of Connor McDavid's line. They, they became a top heavy Edmonton Oiler team where they're relying on Draisaitl and McDavid. But this time it's McDavid McKinnon and Macklin Celebrini. And they all had their chances. But in the end, yes, a goalie is a player. He does play a position, he's part of the game. Like a field goal kicker, like a long snapper, like a left tackle, like a tight end you have to deal with, you have to beat the whole team. So the fact that Conor Hallibuck was the best player in the game, then Canada wasn't that much better.
- [68:53]
Ryan Rosillo
They didn't win.
- [68:54]
John Buccigross
They shouldn't have won because the goalie had a great game, just like an offensive player can have a great game.
- [69:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Heluk story is pretty incredible too, because you know, he's the MVP, but then he gets yanked in that St. Louis series, which they win before. You know, Dallas just looked like a train last year. And then that doesn't happen. And you have the Four nations tournament where Hellebuck, despite the profile of like you think like, how could you have a disadvantage with somebody like this? And you could tell with some of the post game stuff. And look, some of this stuff is kind of predictable of like, oh, nobody. But with him it felt like there was real specific things that he could point to of like I can't believe or the doubt around me was completely misguided for somebody that's accomplished what he's accomplished in the NHL game.
- [69:46]
John Buccigross
Right. But it was such a disparity between regular season and postseason success. Yeah, MVP goalies don't win MVPs. That's like relief pitchers winning MVPs, you know, Vezina's. But the last three years in the postseason, Ryan, his save percentage is like the 880s, you know, that, that, that doesn't do it. And so he didn't prove it in the postseason. So there was some concern. I think it was valid because let's face it, in the postseason you play good teams every night. That's part of the deal. So you have better players shooting on you. You know, sometimes you'll get a one timer in February with some dude in Vancouver from Luxembourg. He's got no chance of scoring. But every one timer in the Olympics is going to be Celebrini, Mark Stone, Nathan McKinnon, Brad Marchand, hall of Famer. You know, celebrating is going to be a hall of famer, McKinnon's a hall of famer. McDavid's a hall of Famer. Sam Reinhart's going to make the hall of Fame. You know, these are all hall of Famers, Cale Makar and Devon Toews right on the doorstep with two chances. So I could see why there's some doubts because the high quality shots are going to be so many because you're playing a great team. But he was the story. Team USA doesn't win Olympic gold in 1980 without Jim Craig, and they don't win gold yesterday without Connor Hallebuck.
- [70:55]
Ryan Rosillo
For sure.
- [70:56]
John Buccigross
He played the best game of his life and at just the right time. And he was number one, two and three star in that game for Team usa.
- [71:04]
Ryan Rosillo
I love that you gave us the timeline of like, okay, American hockey needs to start doing some of these things. And then as they built this roster, maybe on the defense side, like, especially with the selection, I should say the defenseman, what do you make of, like, how you felt about roster construction? Because it's easy to say, like, hey, everything was smart. But were there questions at least for you? Because I know there was a lot of questions for a lot of people when they went with the final roster that they did.
- [71:31]
John Buccigross
Yeah, I still think the fourth line, I think they got lucky, Ryan. I really do. Every time Mike Sullivan put out Vincent Trocheck, J.T. miller and Brock Nelson, John Cooper put out Connor McDavid, Nathan McKinnon and Macklin Celebrini because they had the last change, Canada was the number one seed. So in hockey, you watch to see what you're opponent puts on the ice. After a timeout, an offside puck goes in the stands, the goalie holds onto the puck, there's a face off, and then the visiting team has to put their players on first. So they put their three lines out, they put their 2D out, then the other team can say, okay, I want this matchup. And every time John Cooper went with that line because he had a major speed advantage. You know, the boots on on J.T. miller have slowed down. The boots on Vincent Cho track are a little slower. You know, Brock Nelson was phenomenal. He could have played on any line, but that was a concern and they had their chances. But again, when you have a goalie, the PK is 17 for 17. The goalie, they always say he's your best bounty killer. So it doesn't matter who the unit is. When you got him back there doing 970, 980, say percentage stuff, and that's how you win championships. And so, yeah, I still, I would have Liked to add a couple faster, quicker players down below and. But in the end, like I always say, every trade, every free agent sign, it's like when the Red Sox signed JD Drew and gave him $14 trillion. What a bad sign. Then he hits a grand Islam in the ALCS. They win the World Series. Great sign. Once you win, I always believe everything's the right decision.
- [73:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Everything gets rounded up with winning. And the J.D. drew contract is a perfect example because I have friends that are still like, all right, it doesn't matter. I mean, I think they. When the Sox brought on Eric Gagne and they won the World Series, like, you realize it was a complete non factor at all.
- [73:15]
John Buccigross
Yeah, that was right. They didn't even contribute.
- [73:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. This is being a little too specific, so I will shift out of it. Another thing that happens after winning too is, oh, you know this team stay in the Olympic Village. The coach say, we got whiskey drinkers on this team.
- [73:32]
Cerruti
So good.
- [73:33]
Ryan Rosillo
It was such a good line. And Team Canada stayed in a hotel and all this kind of stuff. And you're like, all right, did any of this. Is this stuff that we learned about after the fact when you win a gold. But I mean, you know this world as well as anyone. What do you think about the messaging here? Because it seemed to be like a great coordinated approach to. We are. We are going to epitomize team here in a way that maybe is really easy to overlook because usually there's all the other Olympians and then maybe a handful of. Some of the guys are just absolute rock stars.
- [74:08]
John Buccigross
Right.
- [74:09]
Ryan Rosillo
And you know what happens with basketball in the Summer Games? It's like we can't even stay. We can't go down there and stay with them. Do you think that plays a factor?
- [74:18]
John Buccigross
That's a great fucking question because no one's talked about it and I think it really does. I think they really nailed this whiskey cigar because Mike Sullivan's a big cigar guy. John Hines, the assistant, I'm not sure. David Quinn, he probably is now towards maybe not so much. He goes to bed at 6pm because he has to be up at 6am and feed the horses every day down down here in Florida.
- [74:39]
Ryan Rosillo
But.
- [74:40]
John Buccigross
But you're right, they have. I think and that's. Hockey players are different. You know, basketball players are freaks of nature. When you watch see them walking in an airport or you see him, Olympic
- [74:48]
Ryan Rosillo
Village, you know, Jack Hughes, they're individuals too. Like basketball almost prides itself on being individuals. So go ahead.
- [74:55]
John Buccigross
True. But there was a time when they started this NDTP program, this National Development Team program that there was kind of. They felt like some of these players coming out of that program were a little entitled, little cocky, they didn't really like it. And I think they might have identified that in that realm. And because I loved how they all had each other's back after this game. Quinn Hughes and. And Jack Hughes talk about Austin Matthews, Toronto. I can't call him a loser anymore. He's a winner, he's a champion, he's captain. That was really cool. And so I do think it was real. And I think it must have been a vibe for sure. Staying in the village, seeing people in the cafeteria. Jack Hughes, tie. I saw Megan Keller in the cafeteria after she scored the women's overtime goal. And would it be. Wouldn't it be cool if I get that and gave her a hug and like they all. They know each other so well. And so, yeah, I think that was real. And that quote, like you said, was amazing. And I think it was right on the money. And like I said, that wasn't always the case with USA Hockey. And I think whether they identified it, whether the players and these kids coming in now are just different. And because they grew up so isolated on social media, Snapchat and things like that, then they got kind of afraid when they realized some of that stuff was screen grabbed and exposed and you still see them once in a while and then they get very insulated. So I think it felt cool to kind of be on a team like that, have each other's back, be a normal kid and have fun and be loose because I think this generation's had a hard time the last 10 years doing that because of they grew up with the onslaught of Twitter and all the social media networks.
- [76:32]
Ryan Rosillo
What do you think of three on three to decide the goal?
- [76:35]
John Buccigross
I love it. I have no problem with it. It's been a long part of NHL history now. And what I like about it, Ryan, is every goal is beautiful. It's not a defenseman from the right point that hits off three asses and two skate blades and goes in the net. Oh, score. They win. And it becomes just a throw to the net, throw at the net, throw at the net game. So it's always a beautiful game. It does happen quickly, which I know they have time constraints. When you're the final event at the Olympics, we got some closing ceremonies. We can't be here for five overtimes, playing all day and night. And it's a part of the NHL. The NHL has taken over the Olympics, Ryan. In terms of hockey, I don't think the Olympics like it, but tough shit. These are our players, it's our property and we're going to do it. We're going to use our officials, our rules and everything and so we'll see what happens going forward. But it's become an NHL tournament, pure and simple. And, and three on three is part of the landscape in the NHL. It's. I like I said and I like it creates fast paced. People talk about it like, you know, a regular season NHL game. That was amazing. Wow. The adrenaline of three on three. And so we love those moments. So, you know, like I said, I think it creates great highlights. Beautiful goals that happened on the women's goal happen on the men's side. These are beautiful, wide open, non fluky goals with skill and speed and a goalie has to make a big save. So I don't have a problem. I know it's a bit of a contrarian view, but that's how I feel.
- [77:56]
Ryan Rosillo
What if I said just for the gold medal game, give me one 20 minute overtime.
- [78:00]
John Buccigross
Yeah, we could do that.
- [78:01]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, I know technically it's just give me 15 on 5, 20 minute and then after that we can go 3 and 3.
- [78:07]
John Buccigross
That's. That seems fair because that would take about 40. Yeah, yeah. That would give you an extra hour, which probably is not a big deal. So, so yeah, I, I could see that would be probably a fair. That would be a fair thing to
- [78:18]
Ryan Rosillo
do, I think for sure. Because you made a great point. Like as much as I love the sport and I just. Listeners to podcast know like there's just no way that I'd be able to ever touch covering this the way I would cover basketball. It's just never going to happen. And I don't have time, I don't have the time to be able to say I'm going to make sure I stay on top of all the hockey, on top of everything else. But. Right. I know that when I have multiple TVs going during the NBA playoffs, I can throw on, especially just watching McDavid skate.
- [78:45]
John Buccigross
Right.
- [78:47]
Ryan Rosillo
The last couple years I'm throwing on Edmonton games. I went to a Florida Bruins game. I was in Boston, brought my dad and I'd be like, hey, you got to turn the hockey game off because you don't know what happened in this basketball game the last 10 minutes. You become hypnotized by the action and it's a better viewing product. And that's just, that's a whole nother conversation. About like every time there's a new rights deal signed by football and by basketball, I'm like, great, congrats. And now the cap is going to go up and they're going to find new ways to create inventory for advertisement. And I'll notice whenever I watch like a soccer match and I go, this is awesome. Like, I'm just, just uninterrupted here for 45, 50 plus minutes, even F1, I'm like, what an unbelievable viewing experience. Because I know for the next 90 minutes I'm getting this kind of action and to sit there on a Sunday morning all over the country and go, here is the product. And I know whatever I'm talking about is not going to happen. But there are certain sports, like hockey, of the four major American sports has the least interruption and you're treated to something as a viewer that you're just not treated to. I mean, baseball has. It's kind of funny that baseball has scheduled interruptions, right? It's a little different in the pacing and everything. Football, I still think the punt fair catch commercial comeback thing should be illegal. And there's just basketball, like we're running basketball ads in a box next to live action that is so small that I can't even fucking see it sometimes. And so it's just a joy to be reminded of what hockey can be as a product that, you know, even with the three on three or whatever and the brakes and all that kind of stuff, it's like, man, this is just so much fun. And you wonder, you just always wonder if there's that next step. Because I feel like 25 years ago the sport had all this momentum and I don't know if the work stoppage got in the way of that at all. I don't know if enough people even cared. But you wonder with the kind of game that we had yesterday if there's this next. If there's just more people that are watching the sport or it can grow in a way that it hasn't grown before.
- [81:10]
John Buccigross
Yeah, I'm skeptical just because people don't watch figure skating, downhill skiing, 100 yard dash, track meets in between the Olympics. You know, they just don't in America. So I'm a little skeptical. There may be a few New Jersey people who will buy some tickets to see Jack hughes, especially these first. That's why I think people forget now after 1980, the cool part was these players signing contracts, showing up to games. Jim Craig's Coke commercial playing for the Atlanta Flames. Mike Ruzzioni choosing not to Sign a contract. That's my, that's my punctuation. I'm not. He could have signed an NHL contract. They would have sold tickets. But he decided what a great move that was by him. And so now we're.
- [81:50]
Ryan Rosillo
That is crazy. By the way, I was reading about it again this morning, like the Rangers wanted to sign a Rusion. And he really said no. Like, I'm.
- [82:01]
Kyle
It's.
- [82:02]
John Buccigross
It's amazing. Right? Again, he was older. He was 25ish. And he wasn't, you know, he was done in terms of, you know, he wasn't. He was, he wasn't a college kid, but. Yeah. You think he. I'm sure he could have got a million bucks out of the Rangers for a couple. Couple of years to sell tickets and, and take pictures and sign autographs and. But also, next time I see him, I have to go a deep dive and give him a couple Titos and that's his favorite drink. And anyway, I'll try to get the real story.
- [82:26]
Ryan Rosillo
That just seems crazy. It seems crazy to not extend the window of. Now you're this national hero. And I don't know that it would have changed anything because, you know, the first thing I thought about, it's like
- [82:36]
John Buccigross
that Jerry Seinfeld bit. I don't know if you saw this Jerry Seinfeld bit.
- [82:39]
Ryan Rosillo
He was on.
- [82:40]
John Buccigross
I saw it on Instagram, and it was like, you know what, what happened in the 70s, people didn't talk about money so much. Remember, this is February. So it was really. It was kind of still the 70s, that Winter Olympics, he's like, you know, people used to talk about money so much. Now we never talked about money. It was how cool your job was. That's what we talked about in the 70s and said. What happened to change? Everything became about money. So maybe Ruzzioni was still kind of a child of the 70s, and it was like, yeah, but he needed money. He needed a job.
- [83:08]
Richard Jefferson
So.
- [83:09]
John Buccigross
But maybe it was an attitude thing. But like I said, I'm going to get to the bottom of this and find out.
- [83:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay, dude, did someone put a contract figure in front of you?
- [83:16]
John Buccigross
And why. How. Why did you say no? Come on.
- [83:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Because when Jack Hughes scored the overtime winner, it's certainly different. I mean, Jack Hughes, the number one in overall pick, as you mentioned. I mean, he's, He's, He's. He's already been in the league. It feels like forever. Yeah. And you kind of have to be reminded how young he is. And then he looks even younger on top of everything else. And this is his family celebrating and. And knowing his brothers are in the league, too, on top of everything else, is just ridiculous. But the first thing I thought of is because I think we're offered Micah Ruzioni every year, no matter what we're doing. And I've already interviewed him I don't know how many times. And I just like, look, it's not being disrespectful. There's nothing else I can ask. I've already asked all those things. And Jack Hughes is going to have many more years and who knows what the final BO is on his NHL career. But I was like, that goal now, like, your life is different. Your life is different from now on. It's not just Jack Hughes being offered when he's 60 years old onto these different shows, whatever version there are. But I don't know that anyone can fully comprehend what it'll mean for him in that he is in that moment. As soon as that goes to the net, he is a different person on this planet. And it's fucking wild to think about it.
- [84:36]
John Buccigross
Is only 24 years old playing in greater New York City. He's got a long way to go. He's got his brother as a wingman. As an interesting story dates the Canadian pop star. He's got a. For hockey. He's got a lot going on and he's got. Always had the swagger, always had the charisma, the Hollywood smile, like I said, the cockiness that a lot of the old school guys don't like. I've always liked him. He's always been cool and respectful to me. And so, yeah, you're right. It's going to be interesting to see his first game back in New Jersey, his first game in opposing Barnes. They'll give him a standing ovation again, kind of going back that 1980 thing I talked about when those players sprinkled into the league and started playing other places and it'd be introduced and it was really. There is an afterglow coming for this moment for Jack and for the other members of the team. There is an afterglow coming that I'm not sure they've even thought about yet, or even maybe even today. I know if they thought about it until it happens, they might be surprised by it a couple times.
- [85:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, it was a great moment. It was a great moment for hockey. It's a great moment for the country, and I know it must have meant a ton to you for somebody that has spent his entire, entire lifetime covering this great sport. So John Butcher grass espn. Their coverage is going to start cranking up, obviously as we get into the meatier part of the season. Is there anything that you need to share with us as far as that?
- [85:50]
John Buccigross
Yeah, just March and April is my busy period. NCAA hockey tournament begins espn. Our championship game is going to be on back on espn, which we're excited about. It's in Las Vegas this year. The Frozen Four early April and then of course the Stanley cup trophy being awarded on ABC this year. We go back and forth with tnt, so it's always better when you have the final prize. So yeah, this is huge for me. College, March, April, that's my busy time. NCAA hockey, NHL, Stanley cup. And this is the best time to be alive. So. And yesterday was almost like opening day. This is like the kickstart here to the finish of my season.
- [86:23]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, well, just promise us you'll come back during the playoffs. We always love catching up, man.
- [86:29]
John Buccigross
Anytime, bro.
- [86:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Get in the game with the college rated Venmo debit card and earn up to 5% cash back at some of your favorite brands with Venmo Stash Rewards. Upgrade your Superfan status with special edition school designs so you can pay for your game day wings and rep your team at the same time. You can add your Venmo debit card to your mobile wallet as soon as you sign up and pay online and in store right from your phone. And the best part, the card is tied right to your Venmo account. Got paid back for dinner. Immediately access the money in your Venmo balance and spend on what you want. Game day, snacks, tickets, new merch. You can easily split purchases in the app and there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Score more with a college branded Venmo debit card and get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash. Sign up at venmo.com collegecard the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp NI Select Schools available Venmo Stash Bundle Terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me stash terms max $100 cash back per month. You want details?
- [87:29]
John Buccigross
Fine.
- [87:30]
Ryan Rosillo
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?
- [87:35]
Richard Jefferson
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly
- [87:39]
Ryan Rosillo
imagine and best of all, kids, I am liquid.
- [87:44]
Richard Jefferson
So now you know what's possible.
- [87:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Let me tell you what's required. Life Advice lifeadvicermail.com Kyle and Cerruti in the mix Good to see you again guys. How was you?
- [87:58]
Kyle
Is Kyle's Mic on again. We're bad. We. We take a week off and things are just off.
- [88:05]
Cerruti
The more shit change, the more it stays the same.
- [88:06]
Kyle
I'm doing great. It's all right. We got dump with snow again this morning. I hurt my back shoveling, so it's off to a great start today, hearing
- [88:13]
Ryan Rosillo
37 inches on Martha's Vineyard. I'm getting photos right now. It's outrageous, huh?
- [88:20]
Kyle
It's not great.
- [88:21]
Cerruti
It's so funny around here. Like, like the last snowstorm. Two and this one. Two different times I mentioned this, I was like, wow. It really seems like Boston sort of New England areas is getting at the worst because everyone's always talking about the weather here. And both times different people they were like, fuck Boston. I was like, I'm talking about these people getting buried in snow. And still the New York State mindset is still like fuck em good. It's just a funny little thing I've noticed.
- [88:45]
Kyle
I respect it. Yeah.
- [88:48]
Ryan Rosillo
You ever spend any time on Long Island, Kyle? Yeah, I have. Every time I fly in to JFK and I go over all that topography, I'm always fascinated, like, what's that town like? What's that one? Because it's, it's right, you know, Granted, if you cover all of Long island, you get the eastern part of it right. When you start getting a little, a little deeper in there, there's some neighborhoods I'll see like a track and be like, I wonder how good that team is. I just always. I've never spent any time. I've never been to Long Island.
- [89:19]
Cerruti
It's kind of the one place in that area I thought I could live. Really. I mean, everyone in New York City talks so much shit about Long Island. I mean, the only place they talk about is Staten island for some reason. But like Long island seems like the one place around there that I'd. I'd be able to do okay.
- [89:35]
Ryan Rosillo
I think you do great there.
- [89:36]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [89:37]
Ryan Rosillo
But I always look at it, I always look at it with just this level of interest that I can't quite explain. Like I just want to get in a car and like I want to see what all these towns are like.
- [89:48]
Cerruti
Do a live show is.
- [89:52]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know if anyone would show up.
- [89:53]
Cerruti
There's a lot of people on Long island that pretty much stick around there. So, you know, might be.
- [89:58]
Kyle
Sounds like they're waiting for a resillo. Travelogue. Long Island.
- [90:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Just do Long Island.
- [90:05]
Cerruti
I mean we could do a five boroughs thing. That'd be cool.
- [90:08]
Ryan Rosillo
I would do a Long island, something. It's just crazy that I've never been there.
- [90:13]
Kyle
Drew spends a weekend in Long Island. There you go. What's it like? It's like an idiot abroad, just the three of us walking around doing stuff. Yeah.
- [90:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Because it kind of should be the best. Right? And I bet you there are areas that are unbelievable, believable.
- [90:28]
Kyle
Montauk's nice, right?
- [90:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Right. I mean, I get that the Hamptons and all that kind of stuff. Like there's a reason why that place exists. I never went. There was a couple invites. I think there was maybe an invite that was overruled by a significant other at one point, which isn't very. It's not like me. But I think even I was like, all right, this is going to be a huge headache if I go to this. And then I think a lot of times too, if I was back east, I'd want to go home. Home. So I wasn't going to just be
- [90:55]
Cerruti
itching all the time.
- [90:56]
Kyle
It does feel like in the Northeast though, you're kind of either a Cape person or a Long island person. Right. Or Montauk person or Hamptons person or
- [91:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Jersey Shore person or.
- [91:05]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [91:05]
Cerruti
Well, shout out to Long Beach, Connecticut.
- [91:07]
Kyle
People don't go down there.
- [91:08]
Cerruti
Oh, yeah, you have your own beaches. I know now.
- [91:10]
Kyle
We. We. I remember.
- [91:11]
Ryan Rosillo
Your beaches suck. Well, Connecticut beaches.
- [91:15]
Cerruti
I wouldn't defend it at all, too. Honestly.
- [91:16]
Kyle
You either go to Cape or you go, you know, to rock.
- [91:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Whoa.
- [91:19]
Kyle
What?
- [91:21]
Cerruti
My buddies told me your beaches are racist. They said they had a couple.
- [91:23]
Kyle
Okay. Yeah, I didn't know. Didn't. Didn't know that. Honestly, I've met.
- [91:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, they're even worse now then. I had no idea. Yep.
- [91:32]
Kyle
Haven't spent a ton of time there, so wouldn't know.
- [91:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. All right, let's get to it. Follow up. Life advice code. I've been meaning to write this for a while. More of a question about life advice standards for listeners more than actual life advice. I wrote in last summer. You read my email on the air, which I appreciate it. So no new gym stats other than say I'm back up to 225. Pack, bench and finishing chest days with 145 pushups in 10 minutes. Next benchmark is being 200. Well, keep us posted, man. So here we go. A couple weeks after you read my email on the air, I was at a get together for my wife's work. I was in one of those semi awkward half hearted conversations with a guy from her work that I've chatted with in passing. And other events like this just losing
- [92:15]
Cerruti
steam by the second.
- [92:18]
Kyle
That reminds me, really quickly, quick aside, have you ever seen that video of Mark Zuckerberg talking to Theo Vaughn? And he's like, do you like coffee?
- [92:25]
Ryan Rosillo
You ever had coffee before?
- [92:26]
Kyle
He's like, nope. He's like, you've ever had coffee? And he's like, yep. And he gives him like these one word answers. And the captain's always like, when you talk to your, you know, your wife or significant other's friend at the function,
- [92:37]
John Buccigross
at the party, just slowly rambling.
- [92:39]
Ryan Rosillo
You.
- [92:39]
Richard Jefferson
Nothing.
- [92:40]
Kyle
Yeah, I don't know. Zuckerberg, who knows, maybe, you know, just doesn't have the social cues.
- [92:45]
Ryan Rosillo
So Zuckerberg was given the one word answer.
- [92:47]
Kyle
Yeah, yeah. If Theo was like asking these questions, he was just like, it was the most awkward encounter of all time and it's just good.
- [92:53]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm glad that happened. All right, so we got to talking about Pause. He mentioned being a fan of your show. I said I was too sure that I actually had a life advice email read on the air. He said, cool. And didn't really ask any follow up questions on the subject or the advice I got, which I thought was odd, but probably an indicator of the surface level nature of this semi forced conversation. So that checks out.
- [93:18]
Kyle
He was looking to move costs.
- [93:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. However, not kidding. Within the next week, I had to explain to my wife why I needed to write into a national podcast to seek advice on my life with rapid fire questions of what could be so wrong? End quote. End quote. Why can't you talk to me about it? End quote. I was able to explain the nature of the email and it was something that we, her and I had discussed many times in the past. Just looking for some other perspectives. It kind of ended with her saying, saying, quote, well, I think that's weird, but whatever. And we moved on.
- [93:46]
Kyle
Sick.
- [93:47]
Ryan Rosillo
She didn't move on, by the way, so it didn't really blow up on me. But I think the guy is a tool for talking to my wife about it and bringing it up to her without knowing if I had told her about it. I am correct. I think he meant to say, am I correct with feeling that way? Right. I am correct with feeling that way. Right. I guess he had it right the first time, but maybe I shouldn't have shared it at all if I couldn't control whether it was shared shared more widely. Ultimately, my question is this. Should life advice listeners adhere to a code of conduct if they become aware of the identity of a submission? Thanks for your time and Continued content and entertainment. Yeah, that sucks.
- [94:23]
Cerruti
I think normal among normal people would be fine, but this guy might be, like, plotting on you. This has got that work husband stink
- [94:30]
Ryan Rosillo
on it where she's like, oh, you
- [94:32]
Cerruti
know, your husband was throwing him back.
- [94:33]
John Buccigross
Huh?
- [94:34]
Cerruti
He's a little embarrassing. It seems like he's, like, doing little digs. Like, why would you even bring this up?
- [94:39]
Kyle
Up.
- [94:39]
Cerruti
It's like, hey, writes into a podcast. Weirdo. Like, what? That's the thing.
- [94:44]
Kyle
It's her.
- [94:44]
Cerruti
It's her wife's coworker. Right. That has caused this little tiff.
- [94:49]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [94:50]
Cerruti
So think of, like, a work husband.
- [94:52]
Ryan Rosillo
I think the part where all of a sudden this guy tells his wife and his wife, like, he was actually very efficient in the storytelling. It may feel like there's a bit of a gap in there, but. Yeah, like, this guy had no interest. This guy likes the podcast. So he's listening. He likes the podcast. You're like, I like the podcast. Hey, I had a life advice email read. He has no interest in talking to you about it. But then he was like, oh, here. Here's a new icebreaker on the day. Do you know your husband email? Sounds like he's going to have to email in.
- [95:27]
Kyle
Honestly, it's going to be awesome. When he hears this episode and it's like, wait a second. It's like the, you know, point at me is this. They talking about me. Yeah.
- [95:33]
Ryan Rosillo
By the way, does the emailer realize now that that dynamic is.
- [95:37]
Kyle
I think he doesn't care. I would.
- [95:38]
Ryan Rosillo
I wouldn't. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
- [95:41]
Cerruti
I think he might be plotting.
- [95:42]
Kyle
I don't know, man. This kind of sucks because, like, I do feel like, you know, we've always said multiple times about life advice. We're not like, we're not just a couple dudes talking about life. It's nothing super serious. We try to get into serious topics, but it is good, like, guys have a place to share some stuff, you know, if they have some feelings, if they want to ask questions that they're afraid to ask. Maybe in public they could do a semi anonymously. I think this is. I think we're doing kind of a good thing. You know, we're trying to help some people out. Not saying we're like Dr. Phil over
- [96:06]
Ryan Rosillo
here, but, like, I didn't even know. Let guys have feelings.
- [96:11]
Kyle
Let guys have feelings. That's all I'm saying.
- [96:12]
Richard Jefferson
Feelings.
- [96:13]
Ryan Rosillo
That might be a T shirt.
- [96:15]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [96:16]
Cerruti
Add it to the long list.
- [96:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, look at that. As soon as you mention the T shirts. Kyle's face just goes Q2.
- [96:23]
Cerruti
Maybe Q2. We'll have a meeting.
- [96:25]
Richard Jefferson
You think?
- [96:25]
Kyle
Who are we talking?
- [96:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, production. Yeah. Good luck, man. I don't really know. I mean, yeah, I don't think he should have said anything to her. But imagine we're going to get a different version of it if I even email sand.
- [96:40]
Kyle
Yeah, it is odd that he, as a listener of the pod and somebody who hopefully likes the pod as a listener, that he would act like, it's weird that someone emailed in, like, hey, I don't know this pod, but you emailed into a podcast asking about life stuff. Like, that's weird. All right. I could kind of get there a little bit if you just are ignorant about it. But he listens to the pod. He knows the deal. Like, why would he. I don't like it. Don't like it at all.
- [97:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Don't like it. All right. Three zero.
- [97:05]
Cerruti
Yeah, keep your eye on that one.
- [97:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Male, 29. Six foot one, two zero five. Haven't played much basketball since the ACL surgery, but I have several men's league baseball all star nominations to my name. A career 14.4 Ks per nine innings. Think early. Kerry Wood. I'll strike out 11 and walk four every start. I have Jeremy Scott to thank for the uptick in velocity. Cannot recommend his programs enough. Jeremy Scott's a badass. Man. This is amazing. This guy's 29. He's picking up a couple mphs because of some Jeremy Scott workout videos. What can't Jeremy Scott do when he did the Captain America arm thing, which I don't even know that I can do anymore?
- [97:46]
Kyle
What's that?
- [97:47]
Ryan Rosillo
It's like five straight minutes of cable curls you. Five straight minutes on each arm Seems hard. I don't even know if I want to try to do it anymore. Anyway, here's my problem. My girlfriend has a Le Labo fragrance that she loves. She gets compliments all the time. It smells great. She suggested I go to the store, try some samples and see if there's one I like for a birthday gift. I enjoy smelling good, so I figured, why not? They're pretty expensive and not normally something I'd buy for myself, so it seemed like a great gift idea for those who have never been. The vibe. Sorry, Ryan. Is very unique. It feels luxurious, but also still oddly rustic and minimalist. I saw customers who looked like they worked for private equity firms. Others who looked like they only referred to movies as films. Every fragrance is marketed as unisex, which will come into play later. So you got like a little Chris Ryan mix with a little Patrick Bateman over there. I know. I'm familiar with their game. By the way, for the record, they have one. That one.
- [98:48]
Cerruti
Can you say the name one more time? What is it called?
- [98:50]
Ryan Rosillo
I think it's La Labo.
- [98:52]
Kyle
Yep, I think that's right.
- [98:54]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [98:55]
Kyle
Not to be used as a little boo boo.
- [98:57]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm just telling you there was one that everybody was wearing for a little while, and it was male, female, and it. Sure, you know. All right, so this is obviously the issue here. Every fragrance, again, marketed as unisex, which will come into play later. Philippe. Although if I had to bet, the name on the birth certificate was probably Phil. Walk me through the lineup and sent me on the way with some samples. I arrived home excited to show my girlfriend what I found. She sniffed the sample I was wearing and agreed. That smelled really good on me. She asked what it was. I told her. She proceeded to give me the shock and slightly concerned look as I had told her I was wearing that deer antler spray Ray Lewis got popped for back in 2013. Much to both of our surprises, I had accidentally selected the same fragrance her sister uses. Oof. I. Fragrances smell a little different on any for everyone, but I'd like to avoid any scenarios like a date night or intimate moment where all of a sudden her sister pops into her head. She maintained that it smelled really good on me and suggested maybe I wear it on days we won't see her sister. She lives in the same city as us. Then change to something else. And this is a lot of maintenance, man, for a scent, but just pick
- [100:06]
Cerruti
a different brand at this point.
- [100:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, change to something else. You might run it. I think I have to move on to something else. Perhaps that Biro that Ryan keeps referencing, but also gatekeeping. What would you guys do? Thanks. Love the pod. Byredo is a unisex game, too, my friends. And if you're not. If you're not ready for it, it sounds like you're ready. Yeah, just. There's a lot of sense out there. You. You can find something. Some of the new Tom Ford stuff is. Is pretty terrific.
- [100:29]
Cerruti
D light blue classic.
- [100:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Never, never go wrong with D Light blue. Yeah, that's. That's right. Yeah. That's the heartland of America type of set, man.
- [100:40]
Cerruti
Graduated to that from Nautica when I was just having the. The toilettes, not the parfume, but.
- [100:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. How many dudes. How many dudes had that sale of Nautica?
- [100:49]
Kyle
Penny number. Yeah, yeah.
- [100:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Went from.
- [100:52]
Cerruti
Went From Nautica to dng. I mean, the, the trajectory is like a. It's a straight. Looks like I'm, you know, we're going to the moon here. I mean, who knows what's next?
- [101:00]
Kyle
I will say if the. With the fragrance thing and have it being like someone, you know, I did. I was, this was in college. I was with this girl who I had the same cologne, I guess as her brother. And it was kind of a thing she didn't like at all. So I did have to get a new one. That was back when I even work alone. So for some people, the scent thing is strong. They associate things with it and they're like, I can't have this. And I get it.
- [101:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I don't even think there's any debate on this one. You'll find something else that you like that smells good on you. But if it's this one specific one that I'm thinking of that everyone had a few years ago, it was like this really, really big time. Like, I think I went out to dinner with somebody and we're both wearing the same thing. It's just fucking terrible.
- [101:44]
Cerruti
I got my buddy a job at Modell's and he started doing this thing where he was. He was like, oh, dude, I found the. The cheat code. He's like, he, he just wore Victoria's Secret perfume and just would tell every. Like, people would always ask. Usually I think it was for the girls, obviously, but they would ask and
- [102:01]
Ryan Rosillo
he'd be like, yeah, as opposed to the men's section.
- [102:04]
Cerruti
Well, it's just Victoria's Secret. He was like, I'm not even trying. I'm not even trying. He's like, I'm going to go the other way and this is going to be a conversation piece. And it really. He did well.
- [102:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Good for him. Should have him on.
- [102:15]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [102:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow. The advanced move Lucy is the obvious choice for the true nicotine pouch connoisseurs. That's why they're the official nicotine pouch partner of Barstool. Every other pouch is the same. Lucy breakers are the only ones doing it differently to give you the longest lasting flavor in pouches. Lucy pouches go up to 12 milligrams in strength and have a unique shape that feels great. Lucy is in stores nationwide now. Or get Lucy delivered to you ASAP on apps like DoorDash and GoPuff. Lucy is the only pouch that delivers long lasting, on demand flavor. Find a store near you at Luci Co stores or get it. Get it shipped with 20% off your first order at Lucy co. Ryan, using the code Ryan. Kyle, how you handling those Lucy pouches?
- [103:02]
Cerruti
Man, oh, man. Versatility is the word on my mind today. You know, traveling across the country, maybe you're not in your own car. Different mode of travel. You're going to be locked up in a stadium for a couple hours. Of course you're enjoying sports, but sometimes you need to take the edge off. Great for hugging your grandma. You don't want to, you know, know, smoke something in the car before. I mean, they can always tell and they're always worried. So Lucy's really cut that whole thing out of my routine where I'm like, no, grandma. I was in the car with somebody who smoked. Just having Lucy and it just, you know, everyone has a better time, so it's been great.
- [103:32]
Ryan Rosillo
That's not even in the read Lucy. Grandmas love it. Lucy products are only for adults of legal age and every customer is age verified. Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. All right. Drunk fight with friend. Got into a drunk fight over text with my good friend. I may have taken it too far. 6, 2, 2. 15. 25 years old, living in Southie. No way. Player comp. Tyler Hansbrough. All right, you've. You've identified a. You're a decent sized guy, you're 25, you live in Southie and you play like Tyler Hansbrough. So chances are you're rather confrontational to begin with.
- [104:11]
Cerruti
What's your baseline?
- [104:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, You're just going to have a hard time anyone having your side. But I appreciate the honesty of. Of coming in hot like that and giving us the full profile. Had 31 points in a high school summer league game. NBD. And he can ball me and my good friend. 10 plus years, healthy, mostly friendly rivalry. Recently he's been provoking me in a couple group chats, saying how much better NCAA basketball is than the NBA. It escalated over the atroc. This is the NBA All Star Weekend. Him trying to have me justify everything the NBA does. I know All Star weekend is flawed and Silver is losing grasp of what made it great. But I found myself angrily defending it out of spite. I don't think this is Silver's problem, to be honest with you. Pre Silver, the All Star game wasn't great either. The back and forth about the NBA turned into him addressing me as man and dude and calling me a British cigarette. Okay for not drinking on Fridays anymore. Checks out. Checks out like he's sitting on some social, moral high ground. I like to chill and hang in with the lady on Friday nights and bro out on Saturdays. But he thinks if you're not blacking out every night of the weekend, then you're just not living correctly. This most recent exchange happened Sunday night. He was skiing in New Hampshire, most likely intoxicated. I was definitely intoxicated, having spent the entire day drinking with my roommates on our living room couch. After calling me dude man and a British cigarette one too many times, I lashed out and went after him in the group chat calling him a miserable human being, a mumbler, a keyboard warrior who backs down when confronted in person. I threatened to beat him up and told him that I'm out on him in general and his upcoming birthday party.
- [105:56]
Kyle
Fuck you, Andy.
- [105:57]
Cerruti
That part lets me know you didn't mean it if you threw in the birthday party. That's how I know that there's going to be an apology coming down the pike.
- [106:04]
Ryan Rosillo
There's a bunch of people listening to this right now being like I would love to have 25 year old problems because this is supposed to. Honestly, I'm surprised this isn't worse. So he gave me a thumbs up to the text message and hasn't spoken to the group chat for two days. Which is not like him at all. He seems to be taking it extremely personally. I tried calling him yesterday to apologize but I got no answer. I feel increasingly bad for making him feel like shit, worried our friendship will not fully recover. How do I approach the next couple days and try to mend the relationship? His birthday is this weekend and I don't want to have serious tension.
- [106:40]
Cerruti
It's a phone call man. Simple.
- [106:43]
Ryan Rosillo
That might have already happened because some. We had a backlog of emails. Yeah. So the advice may be pointless.
- [106:49]
Cerruti
It's a simple phone call.
- [106:50]
John Buccigross
Our.
- [106:50]
Cerruti
Our group chat's been a little volatile lately. We had have a guy going through some really some legal troubles and people are just not seeing the non funny side of it. I've been trying to be nice about it but it just keeps, it just keeps coming in. And we have a guy in the group chat who's a cop who's just like, well from this side you're pretty fucked. And everyone's just like, everyone's piling on and it's just a volatile group chat in general. People go too far. All the times dudes leave and you just gotta just be above it. Call and be like sorry man, if you're gonna take the drunk cop out, just do it. It's fine. Unless you're constantly apologizing for this all the time. It sounds like this is a one time thing because you're like, don't know where to go from here. So, yeah, it's just a phone call and say, sorry, my bad. And then that'll probably be one of the shortest conversations you've ever had with this dude. He'll be like, yeah, bro, me too. And then. Then we're done. See you at the party.
- [107:39]
Kyle
Yeah. Or you can get it easy, or you could just like do the thing where you just kind of keep it at. Keep it moving. Maybe tag him in something that's off topic. Yeah, yeah. Hey, you see this? Yeah. Maybe send them the Theo von Zuckerberg video as a joke. Who knows? You know, you could.
- [107:56]
Cerruti
I would think it would be easier to clear the air. That's more like when you're fighting with your, like, wife or girlfriend. That's the move sometimes, like, all right, it's three hours. This is a fucking. Yeah, this is an A1 meme. Let's just see if she.
- [108:08]
Kyle
How mad she actually.
- [108:09]
Cerruti
Should I approach or should I just wait?
- [108:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know.
- [108:11]
Kyle
Yep, yep.
- [108:12]
Ryan Rosillo
Producer likes cat videos. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [108:17]
Cerruti
The rare hummingbird. Has she not?
- [108:19]
John Buccigross
I don't know.
- [108:19]
Kyle
He might be pretty butthurt though, because some guys, when they get publicly shamed in front of other dudes, especially in a group chat, and it's hard to tell, like the sarcasm angle and who takes it seriously. Some guys take that pretty seriously and.
- [108:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, look, this is a totally different category. Hey, NBA All Star weekend sucks. Hey, you suck. Everything about you sucks. Yes, you know, I know. He was just paparinia. Soft jab. Soft jabs. And you had some pops in you. I mean, granted, he probably did too. If you're telling us what the scattering report on him is. I don't know. I'm just going to throw this out there, but is it worse in text form as opposed to two guys hammered, yelling at each other? Because, you know, this guy's reread those texts probably seven times.
- [108:59]
Cerruti
If you're yelling at each way, you wouldn't know what you said.
- [109:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Probably. It's like a tablet, just. It exists now forever. You know, some stone tablet of decrees. These commandments. Yeah, yeah, you can't unsend these. It's too late. He's already seen them. He's probably read them a few times. He's built up this anger where if you guys were just yelling at each other at the Lincoln Tavern, you'd be
- [109:31]
Cerruti
like, dude, I didn't say that.
- [109:32]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I didn't yeah, right. Like the next day you guys are letting each other have it. He probably already went to the. Do you guys go to the birthday party?
- [109:43]
Cerruti
Yes, I'm calling him before that.
- [109:45]
Kyle
Can you ask your other buddies, like, hey, do you. Like, I'd like to go. I want to.
- [109:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Obviously some advanced piece.
- [109:50]
Kyle
But like, do you think it's a bad idea? Can you give me some intel? Because. Yeah, I mean, if it's going to be a problem, I wouldn't go, but hopefully.
- [109:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Do I need to defend. Fling into the three point line now?
- [109:59]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [110:00]
Cerruti
This isn't like, I don't have to game this out. This isn't like a work scenario where like, if I fuck this up, my losing my job, you could just, you could just call him and it's just really about your approach. If you're just. Hey, man, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say all that stuff. You know, a little bit drunk. He's probably going to take the. He probably wants to do that. He's going to take the bait and be like, yeah, man, me too. And he probably doesn't want to say anything else. He'd be like, we good for this weekend? Yeah.
- [110:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Click.
- [110:21]
Cerruti
The whole thing takes 45 seconds. I'm. I'm positive that's how that would work.
- [110:26]
Ryan Rosillo
I think this little stumble there, I think this also speaks to a little bit of like, like us three right now though, because Kyle, it seems like
- [110:35]
Cerruti
I've done this call a few times. All right. I've done it since.
- [110:39]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't mean this as like a Kyle thing. I think you, you and your friend group, you're younger and you have far more like acceptance of each other. Right. You. There's just more grace perhaps with Kyle because you might be the best of us
- [111:02]
Kyle
as like a buddy.
- [111:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [111:04]
John Buccigross
Yeah.
- [111:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Like you would, you would hate to have the friendship damaged either way, where you'd be super forgiving and you would expect the same. Forgiveness is the point that I'm making here.
- [111:14]
Cerruti
You put it that way.
- [111:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Yes. Okay. Yeah. So this is a compliment is what I'm trying to.
- [111:17]
Kyle
Okay. Yeah. We got there eventually. I think you're right. I think you're right. Kyle would handle the best. Yeah. He would deal with this the best. And he would. And he would handle it the best if it happened to him. I would, I'm not gonna lie.
- [111:30]
Ryan Rosillo
I'd be butthurt for a while.
- [111:31]
Kyle
I'd be annoyed. I probably would hold a grudge for a bit, but I'd get over it eventually. You Know, like, I don't know.
- [111:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, would you get over it at 25? Way more like if somebody did this to you now at 35?
- [111:43]
Kyle
Yeah. Like, there's a lot, obviously, like any dude group chat, like, there's a lot of ball busting and people, like, just constantly make fun of each other, but, like, no one really takes. Takes it too far and starts like, personally attacking your character and who you are and all that. Like, that's a different level. And when you're an adult, I feel like that just kind of maybe, maybe something weird actually goes the other way.
- [112:00]
Cerruti
You don't care, but I know, right?
- [112:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, I think it'd be a friendship ender. I think somebody. Yeah, if somebody really, like, decided it. I don't know. I mean, like, create a scenario where a close friend of mine for 30 years just dug in. Like, I had one guy. I wouldn't say he was like one of my closest friends, but he started. Started kind of getting into the. The no kids thing, and I was like, wow. Like, he was kind of like, letting me have it a little bit in a group setting, like, saying like, hey, you.
- [112:33]
Kyle
You like, hey, you're, you know, like, personal. Like, you, you fucked up life by not having kids kind of thing.
- [112:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, a little bit like, you fucked up life. And like, who are you to have judgment on, like, anything? I wasn't even criticizing anybody else. I think it was just like a general observation of like, hey. And then it was like it crossed the line where then I realized I was like, oh, this guy doesn't really even like me. Like, this is. This is like, I can't wait.
- [112:56]
Kyle
Was that a group chat, though, with, like, are you all close? Are you all varying degrees of friendship? Like, my main group chat, we're all pretty much the same level, and if anyone kind of did that, it would be out of line. I have other bigger group chats that like, you know, I could be a 2 to somebody in a 10 as far as friendship levels. And it's just like, yeah, friend levels. Yeah.
- [113:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Just seems weird for you to be a 2 me satellite dude.
- [113:19]
Cerruti
Yeah.
- [113:19]
Kyle
Oh, no, they're. No, it's just like, not like they don't like me, but it's like, I don't know you as well as other people in this thread. No, you know, like, there's, there's like college ones where it's like we are varying degrees of friends, you know, not that we.
- [113:32]
Cerruti
Right. We were on an intramural soccer team. But yes, you know, that's about it. A couple Parties. It's interesting what you said about that, because I think when you're older, you seem to tolerate less, and it's like, easier to be like, all right, well, this has really run its course. But when you're younger, smaller things feel like a bigger deal because your world is. So there's probably a.
- [113:50]
Ryan Rosillo
When you're 50, you're generally not like, weekend hammered, texting your buddies, yelling at each other, and then going like the all apologies, you know, like, yeah, that's
- [114:02]
Cerruti
more of like a weekend getaway. And the guy just pulls the ripcord,
- [114:05]
Ryan Rosillo
and you're like, wow.
- [114:05]
Cerruti
Never saw that side of time.
- [114:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, look, there were bachelor parties. There are golf trips where guys had
- [114:10]
Cerruti
this guy's fitting two years of fun into two days, and we just have
- [114:13]
Ryan Rosillo
to let him do it, you know, because, like, the last golf trip, you could tell there was a couple guys that were just like, they never get to do anything anymore. And this isn't about the golf. This is. This is. This is. This is about breathing air, right?
- [114:31]
Kyle
Yeah. It's also, though, like. Like there's guys who. They've got two days together, and if it's more than two days, like, there's going to be problems on a trip. Even though we're in a text thread.
- [114:39]
Cerruti
Yes.
- [114:40]
Kyle
Like, and everyone's friendly, but it's like, hey, two days in person, like, that's like, back in the day, like, you used to go visit someone's college for a weekend or hang out. Like, man, I used to hang out with these guys for so long. And you're like, but could I be a roommate with this person even though I'm a close friend of them? The answer is, like, kind of no sometimes, right? Like, you could be my best friend, but, like, we could not be roommates or we wouldn't be friends. And that's where. I mean, the group chat, like, you know, it's a little bit softer, right? You can. You can leave. You cannot read stuff. I don't know.
- [115:06]
Cerruti
I don't know. As I've gotten older, I'm just like, I'll just do the apologizing thing. And then pretty much every time the other guy's like, oh, thank. Thank God. Because I wanted to do it too. I mean, this isn't what they'll say, but they'll just be like, yeah, dude, totally fine. I get it.
- [115:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [115:17]
Cerruti
You know, fuck you. Haha. And then I'm Tober.
- [115:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Look, the other guy could just be really annoying here, too. I mean, if he's drunk all the time, and he's just constantly giving you shit and he's calling you all these names. Like, clearly you. You upgraded the insults. You took it to another level. And here's the other thing. Like, if the guy's actually just kind of bummed out and that's why he's drinking all the time, if somebody else, like, breaks down that wall and starts tearing an eater that bad, like, that's. That's probably not a fun week for this dude. So I love the idea of you trying to figure it out. You know, there's probably be things that, you know, when you're younger, you should be able to kind of get over some of this stuff pretty quickly. But I don't know, who knows? I mean, again, like I said, I think by the date of this, the. The party would have been this weekend. So hopefully. Hopefully our guys made up. It was fine. All right, that'll do it for the show today. That was abrupt. Sorry. Thanks to Kevin. Thanks to Tom. Thanks to Serdy. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Kyle every day. Please check out the Ryan Rosillo show and subscribe. Part of our stool sports.
- [116:46]
Richard Jefferson
Sat.