← The Ryen Russillo Show
The Ryen Russillo Show
What Does the Bills’ Win Over the Chiefs Mean? Plus Kirk Herbstreit and Richard Jefferson Stop By!
02:36:14
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- [00:00]
Ryan Rossillo
Hey Barstool listeners. You can find every episode of this show on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Today is the first day of the rest of your lives. It's also the first day of the new Ryan Rossillo show with Barstool Sports. Very excited about the first episode today. We are packed her Curb street talking all sorts of college football including number one versus number two in the Big ten and trying to figure out the rest of the SEC and what the committee might do on Tuesday night. We've got Richard Jefferson talking about the first two weeks of the NBA season, including why he loves OKC for obvious reasons. Some not obvious reasons. Also handling a guy like Jaw as a teammate. Little story time from the Nets back in the day with Richard Jefferson and a bunch of other stuff including Houston, Cleveland, Orlando. We've got life advice so Kyle and Steve, I've got my College football top 12. And to open the show, what a Bill's win means again in the regular season against the Chiefs. But first, every week in the NBA, stars rise, legends are made, and one player rules them all. DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA is bringing back King of the Core. And now it's every Tuesday of the season. Here's how it works. DraftKings is putting up 1 million in bonus bets each week. Opt in, apply your token and place a $5 pregame bet on the NBA star you think will dominate each Tuesday. If your pick finishes the night leading the league in points, rebounds and assists, they're crowned King of the Court and you win your share of $1 million in bonus bets. And this season, there's a new way to track the action. The King of the Court leaderboard Inside the app before tip off, see the top 10 stars in PRA. While games are live, watch your pick, climb the ranks and when it's over, find out exactly where your star stacked up and if you've been crowned a winner. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use the code Rya R Y E N that's Code Ryan R Y E N to win a share of $1 million in bonus bets. If your player is King of the Core in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours. And by the way, to celebrate the relaunch of the show today, DraftKings is giving you a same game parlay boost for any NBA bed of four legs or more. So head to the DraftKings sportsbook now to get your SGP boost today. Gambling problem.
- [02:18]
Richard Jefferson
Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York. Call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut.
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Ryan Rossillo
Help is available for problem gambling. Call 88 or visit ccpg.org Please play.
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Richard Jefferson
Responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino.
- [02:33]
Kirk Herbstreit
And Resort in Kansas.
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Richard Jefferson
Pass through of per wager tax may.
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Ryan Rossillo
Apply in Illinois 21 and over.
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Richard Jefferson
Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction.
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Ryan Rossillo
Void in Ontario.
- [02:40]
Richard Jefferson
One token per customer that expires at.
- [02:42]
Ryan Rossillo
The start of the final NBA game.
- [02:43]
Richard Jefferson
When offered winning shared is $1,000,000 in.
- [02:45]
Ryan Rossillo
Non withdrawable bonus bets that expire in seven days. Restrictions apply terms@sportsbook.draftkings.com promos okay, week nine. You know how we do this. If you're new here we go. Best win, we go. Worst loss. Some stats to impress friends or acquaint the Caleb roller coaster and I'm going to admit to some straight up bad analysis. All right, we start in Buffalo. 21 points for the Bills in the first half against a Chiefs defense that you may not have known going into that game last night. Number two in scoring defense in the NFL. Now they're number three behind your Houston Texans. So Allen sets a Bills franchise record for completion percentage in a game. Minimum 15 attempts, completes 88 1/2% of his passes. A bill's defense that was 23rd against opposing third down percentage holds KC to 3 of 13 on third downs. They put up 141 on the ground against his Chiefs defense that actually susceptible a little bit based on whatever statistics you want to look at here. But there's some Chiefs numbers in there that show they're not necessarily great against the run but they won five of the last six. A lot of teams don't really get to expose that weakness because they're playing from behind against the Chiefs. This Chiefs offense is rolling. So like going into this and looking at this Bill secondary and a lot of stuff like you know I know the Bills have been getting him here in the regular season which we're going to get to, but it looked like at least on paper was lining up for the Chiefs to kind of continue through this run and just announce their like hey this is for real. Despite the bad start here we are still the class of the afc. Well that's not the case because Allen was in complete control despite limited opportunities down the field. I mean Kincaid went off. He's great. I love his growth as a player. Shakir who's their clear number one he had seven catches but I think it was like four plus yards per catch so there was just limited opportunities down the field here. But if you look at the throw chart for Allen on the 23 completions, 16 of those were within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage or behind the line of scrimmage. So 16 of 23 completions are all right around him now. Hey, Ryan, don't you get another QBs who are doing that? Hey man. Yeah, I do. Usually they're QBs that suck though, or QBs that. I'm like, cool. Completion percentage, cool this, cool that. Like, I just never trust you if you're down two scores to like really rip it on third and seven. Although if it's down two scores and you know you're not getting the ball back, you've lost the game. Usually those guys will let it rip. So I think we can all agree. We can, we don't have to hug about it. But if we all sat down and we were out of bonfire and it's like, what's a good quarterback? What's a bad quarterback? If you're already Josh Allen and we've seen what the high side of you is, what the ceiling, what you're capable of, like, like I'm okay with the game yesterday with that kind of throw chart. Because he was in total control. He was asked about it after the game. I was like, do you know you have it going early? And he's like, I can't speak for every quarterback, but at least for me personally, I know like arm slot, which he said is something he's been working on the last few weeks. I know at least that's something that you know like, yeah, early on, okay, I've got this going. So I think it was him just being in control of the game on top of them being able to run the football and looking at how that builds, especially that interior part of the offensive line, how they started getting some push there later and later the game and just kind of breaking Kansas City, at least defensively. Some more stats for you. Mahomes, who again a disaster on third down when he's my favorite third down quarterback. He went 1534 in this game. It's his first game under 50% completion in 142 starts. I went through the game log again because I couldn't believe that it never happened before. He was Never in the 40s or lower ever completion percentage in any of those starts. 142. The only stuff I could see that was at 50 was like a couple Pro bowl games, which is a little surprising. Does he take the Pro bowl off. Maybe that's a Wednesday topic. But, you know, he was sacked three times, which is the same as Allen. Two of those sacks on Allen were in the same series there when it felt like Kansas City's still trying to find a way to keep this game. And even though clearly the Bills felt like the better football team for three, three plus hours, you know, it's still the Chiefs and it's still them. After a missed field goal with the football late, and you're like, is he actually going to be able to do this with 22 seconds? Because of the 13 second stuff that had happened years ago. But Mahomes was pressured all day, so the sack numbers are totally misleading. On 52 1/2% of his drop backs, Buffalo sent pressure at him 14, 14% higher than any of the other previous nine Bills Chiefs matchups. Mahomes was 3 of 16 against pressure. And so that's, that's. I think the haunting thing about this for Bills fans is that. Does last night mean anything to you? Because the most important part isn't just, hey, the Bills beat the Chiefs. The Bills have been beating the Chiefs in the regular season. This is five straight for the Bills against the Chiefs in the regular season. So I don't know, like, I'm not a Bills fan. I'm one of the few media guys that has no connection to Buffalo whatsoever that hasn't decided to become a Bills fan. Although, look, if they're in the Super Bowl, I'm rooting for the Bills. I don't know. I don't think, I can't imagine any NFC scenario unless I found out that, like, I had a kid 20 something years ago and he was, you know, I don't know. Well, I don't want to do that. I don't, I don't want to speculate. I don't, I don't know if there's any like, oh, we got the monkey off our back because all of it's irrelevant because despite the five straight wins in the regular season, we all know that the last five playoffs, Casey's eliminated Buffalo in four. So the Bills feel like they're built to beat Kansas City. Where, you know, I don't know if this is even fair. Is like, well, Kansas City feels like they're built to beat the NFL and the Bills have put all of these resources in and it's like, okay, well, yeah, they have a ton of guys on the defensive line. They have an interior line that you can think, can push around a defensive line here that's probably A little undersized in Kansas City and felt like they got worn down. Or maybe the game was just in Buffalo and Kansas City would get this one at home. Maybe these teams are total just a coin toss with it. But the five straight feels like it should mean something. But because of the playoff history, I guess it doesn't. But I don't know. I don't know if Bill's fans look at this and go, hey, cool, we beat him again in the regular season and none of it really matters. Or if it's like, hey, those games, those, those losses in the playoffs. They're all close, they're all really close and at some point the luck has to go our way. Another important part of this about the D line, I think this is the most amazing thing that I saw from yesterday. So Mahomes, against all that pressure, what would you normally see? You'd expect him to escape on those third and sevens, keep the possession alive. That really frustrating. Like, hey, he's, he's not Lamar back there, but you know what's going to happen. They were able to get pressure all day long, all right, without sacrificing any of those escape lines. That was the most impressive part about this D line. And granted Hoyt going down late, it's going to but like, welcome to the NFL. Welcome to the party. Like this is what's going to happen. You think you have this depth in this one unit, you're probably not going to have it by the end of the year, but at least for a Sunday. The Bills may not be afraid of KC but the books still are. I couldn't believe it when I saw it this morning on one book out of Vegas, your Super bowl favorite. The betting odds at plus 550. Kansas City Chiefs DraftKings has Buffalo plus 600. Kansas City second at plus 650. So maybe the Bills aren't afraid of them. Maybe you're a Bills fan and you're not afraid of the Chiefs or anything like that, but certainly the books still are. Okay, let's have some fun with standings because this plays in a worse loss. Despite those odds, Kansas City this morning is not even in the playoffs. In the afc they're the eighth seed. Buffalo's the five seed. So that three headed monster of Buffalo, Kansas City and Baltimore, that's the 5, 8 and then 10 seed. Baltimore's win on Thursday night almost felt like two wins because it was the nationally televised game. The only thing going on Lamar was back. You're like, hey, you know, it's pretty good when they're healthy and Lamar's back there, is the Ravens. The strength of schedule, I think on paper probably sounds a little tougher. Meaning like I was looking at remaining strength of schedule this morning. They have the 22nd toughest remaining, so it's obviously on the easier side. But there's a Minnesota in there. There's Green Bay, Pittsburgh, twice after their Colts win. What does that mean? Maybe it's just the Colts had five turnovers before Pittsburgh's first turnover, which was the fumble at the very end of the game. But yesterday, to start the day right, to start week nine, Green Bay was actually the 1 seed in the NFC. Today, they're the 4 seed. They scored 13 points against Carolina Panthers. That gives up 24 points a game they lose. Crap. One of the best tight ends in the NFL this year. Love, I thought, looked worse than his numbers. But whenever you're looking at the packers, whether it was the beginning of the year and that went against the Lions, you know, the Dallas tie was really frustrating. Then they put together some wins. Lesser opponents, still giving up a few more points than you would want from this defense. They were the 1 seed. And that's how I look at. I only look at the packers as is this a Super bowl contending team? And look, they still are because the Panthers are oddly five and four and the gambling darlings of the NFL six and three against the spread this year. So a loss to the Panthers this year isn't like a recent history loss like the last few years historically, to lose the Panthers, like, what the hell's wrong with you guys? But it still kind of feels like, what's wrong with you guys? Like, how did you let that happen at home for Sunday where it looked like you couldn't and there was some weird, like fourth down, not decisions, but too far for the field goal down a full score, not three. So we can't really kick it here, and if we kick it here and they kick in the next one, we're still down, but just an odd, odd loss for a Packers team that's supposed to be on the short list of teams that can win this whole thing. And again, Carolina, a little bit better than you realize. Numbers to have some fun with. Denver was 1 in 6 and 1 score games last year. They're 5 and 2 this year. Mike Sando, who we love, true media, put this one together. All right, Broncos fans, this is going to be like when the Titans were the one seed years ago and I was like, this is the worst one seed that we've had in recent history. The score differential during this six game win streak that Denver's on right now, they're a plus 55 because you're like, man, is Denver this good? Because even last year you're like, all right, they're losing these one score games, but it's a rookie QB. Like the whole, the whole 24 season for the Broncos is a massive success considering like the unknowns in that part of it, right? This year they're winning these one score games. We all love their defense and I'm going to get to some of this stuff here in a second. But a lot of it's just like, okay, what do we, what do we do with Bo Nix? Like what do we think of him? But during this six game win streak they are plus 55 point differential. So if you look at the 56 teams that have had a six game win streak in the NFL since 2000, that plus 55 is 47th out of 56. I know Broncos fans, you don't care. You're not worried about it. Nick started one of seven with a pick. It was awful. Again uses defense, number one scoring defense in the league. Then in the fourth quarter he goes 9, 16, 76 yards and of course the game flipping 25 yard touchdown run that sets up the game winning field goal. But I'll ask you this because I feel like we're going to be doing this bonix thing for way too long. We love Denver's D line, right? Number four pass rush win rate in the NFL. Pass block rate from their offensive line is number one. When you look at the O line and some of the win rates, the grades they have, McGlinchey and Bowles, the tackles are fifth, are tied for fifth in pass block win rate. Ben Powers is 18th, certain is out with this Peck thing for maybe a month. I'm embarrassed that I ever even mentioned anyone else at corner being at his level. Because when you really dig into who he's going up against consistently every single week and how much, he just completely discourages anyone for ever throwing at him, even though you still have to throw at the number one receiver. So there's actually like more attempts against him than you might think. Like it's just off the charts, those numbers. I like the receivers, I don't love them, I like them. And as far as their yards per carry stuff, they're fifth in the NFL. So we love the D line, we love their pass rush, we love their secondary, we like the receivers. I think we love the offensive line, running back numbers like I don't know if any of us really care about running backs outside of the handful of maybe three or four game changers we see each week. And we love all that stuff. Then it's like, well, how come we don't love the team? I think we're going to be doing who is Bo Nix for like six years. And I'm going to take the over the goodwill hunting award. All right. Life with Caleb Williams. Wow, what a game. What a game for my Bears. Well, the first thing is the Bears could run the football all day long. Swift's out. Swift week to week. Like, hey, you want to hit that hole, buddy? Oh, let's see if another one develops. Manung guy, just a stud all day yesterday. So the Bears could run the football whenever they wanted to, which then gets to. Shouldn't that be great for Caleb Williams? Because again, time to throw stat. Number one in the NFL, I think number two on the day, Caleb Williams, time to throw. It's like, yeah, you have plenty of time to throw when you drop back. Because every other drop back, I'll admit I love the guy. Still holding on hope. And I'm like, what is going on back there? But here's a perfect example of the roller coaster day for Caleb Williams. Third and four. That throw to commit was a mission. Makes the catch, but is completely exposed. Buddy pass. He gets hurt. And then two plays later, a rollout on second and third to Loveland. And you're like, there's the Utah game, Caleb, that I love. That final series when they fight, they actually go down and blow this lead to Joe Flacco. You're like, are they going to lose this game? The beginning of that series just looked like a mess. Incompletion. Incompletion. A Caleb Williams run. You know how I feel about those runs. Like, nice to have him. Don't like defaulting to him. And then he rips a 58 yarder to Loveland for the game winning touchdown. So that was. If you've never seen Caleb Williams play before. That is a perfect example, by the way. Bears five and three for the first time since 2018. I did. I shouldn't even share this. I found a stat I don't really like. I looked at aggressive throws this morning. Aggressive throws or throws where the defender is within a yard of the intended target, whether it's a completion or incompletion. Caleb Williams ranks 37 out of 38 quarterbacks in aggressive throws. So when he drops back, you're like, what's he seeing? He's Seeing things that he does not want to pull the trigger on that it appears other quarterbacks would like to pull the trigger on aggressive throw. Chart you look at those stats, be like, where do you want to be? Well, if you're high and you're Stafford, Darnold's incredible. I've got some Darnold numbers for you. I might do them later. And I know you're really excited about that. You're like, I'm psyched. This guy went to barstool like, poor night. Did you hear about this Resilo guy? He's going to do this Darnold thing on his throws. Like 10 minutes of just reading fucking stats. I know what they're doing over there. Yeah, but if you're 37th out of 38th on aggressive throws, Jacoby Brissette's the only guy behind him. So out of starters, Caleb is actually last. But I. I'm not going to share that stat with you. All right, finally, bad analysis. I'm going to share with you those moments where I'm thinking about something that I probably shouldn't share because it's really stupid and meaningless. But I can't help because I thought it. So Jacksonville, Vegas. That was fun. It actually ended up being fun. Ended up being fun game. But that first half was. I'm like, why is this on screen as basketball started yet? So Cam Little for Jacksonville hits an NFL record 68 yard field goal to close out the first half. Trevor Lawrence was like so happy. Liam Cohen looked like he could have been hit with a targeting call on his kicker. They were celebrating so hard and I was like, you guys just scored three points against Vegas and you're this happy. I get it. People love being part of history. But I couldn't help but think, is this why I don't like this Jacksonville team? Like, why are you this happy? You sucked for an hour and a half and they came back and won an overtime. So maybe that was truly bad analysis. Shake Shacks dropping their biggest burger yet. It's called the Big Shack, and you can get it starting November 4th. While this burger may sound familiar, it's made the Shake Shack way. I'll tell you right now a little secret about me. Every now and then I'm like, you know what I'm going to do? Go to Shake Shack by myself and mess that place up for 30, 35 good minutes. Normally I would go two double cheeseburgers again, don't tell anybody. But now with the Big Shack, I don't even know. This is the most efficient version of eating burgers I think anyone's ever going to experience. Look at this baby. Picture the classic Shack burger, but bigger, beefier, and packed with even more of the good stuff, including a new secret sauce. And I have side secret sauces to go. Like, I'll have those for a long time, I hope. Maybe not beefier. Say more. We're talking two 100% Angus beef patties. Half a pound total and a bonus bun right in the middle. Add in lettuce, hand sliced tomatoes and onions, thick cut pickles, melted American cheese, and a creamy, tangy secret sauce. It's stacked. Plus it's made to order for the same Shake Shack quality you expect. Just more of it. I was about to take a bite, but there's more. Read. For under 10 bucks, you're getting a massive burger with the freshest ingredients and highest quality. The big Shack hits. Shake Shack stands nationwide starting tomorrow, November 4th. Go try it and see how big they really went. Sounds familiar. Made different. That tagline actually nails it. This is exciting. As a guy I've been a big fan of for a long time, he knows I'm a big fan. Got to travel with a bunch of days back. Back in the college game day days for radio and then television. It's Kirk Herbstrey, who's not only part of game day, calls the biggest game in college football on Saturday nights and also Thursday night football for Amazon. Good to see you, man. What's up?
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Kirk Herbstreit
Good to see you, buddy. Congrats on all this. Excited for you.
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Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, I'm, I'm excited too, man. And I'm just excited to start a new chapter and, you know, you understand how that works. Even though, what you've been at ESPN since when, like, were you a sophomore at Ohio State and you just start. They put you on TV 30 30th.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Year this year, but I'm here at Amazon, so.
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Ryan Rossillo
30Th year, oh my God.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Believe that, dude. I mean, what was your first year? What was your first year at ESPN?
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Ryan Rossillo
The beginning of 06, it was Disney the weekend, and they were so hurting for radio people that McShay had brought my tape in and was like, here's the deal. He's like, I'll get your tape in and I'll make sure somebody actually listens to it. That's the only thing I can promise you. Because he had just gotten signed on with the Scout Sync thing when they bought Scout Sync. And I was like, that's all I need because we know how this works. Like, you don't really Get. Nobody listens. Nobody wants to listen to any of this stuff. And so he got somebody to listen and they were like, hey, it's not terrible. And we have this massive problem with ESPN the weekend where we send all the talent down to Disney and there's no one around. So we have, like a couple radio slots open. So can you do solo on this Saturday for two hours? Yeah. So I. Back then, too, I was worried I was going to be considered too young because I just turned 30. Like, they were worried I was too young.
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Kirk Herbstreit
And what were you doing up to that point?
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Ryan Rossillo
I'd done play by play, double A Red Sox, Trenton. But I was the second guy in, so I wasn't the main guy. I had never been on the air before, but they just put me on. And so at least I had in my resume. That's, to this day, still, like, the worst job I've ever had. But then I ended up in Boston because I was a double A Red Sox guy. I ended up in Boston, talk show stuff. And that station of Sporting News went under after I signed an extension that was fake. And then I was just, you know, when you're desperate, when you're desperate, you're like, hey, would espn, like, I almost felt delusional asking if they listen to the tryout stuff. But, yeah, that started in 06, and then I was there until like the end of 19. So almost.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah, I knew you, obviously. I just, I couldn't remember because that college football, that college game day radio show.
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Ryan Rossillo
Oh, 8 was my first year on that.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Okay, okay. Remember, remember Brad? Who's Brad's.
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Ryan Rossillo
Brad Edwards?
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Kirk Herbstreit
Brad Edwards, yeah.
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Ryan Rossillo
Emma.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Brad.
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Ryan Rossillo
Yeah. Yeah, he.
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Kirk Herbstreit
He would bounce around on that show as well.
- [23:25]
Ryan Rossillo
He was the first guy to figure out the bcs, of course.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Always. God, what would we have done without that?
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Richard Jefferson
I know.
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Ryan Rossillo
I would always tell people, like, how do I get started? I'm like, well, there's a few guys that did something a little different. This guy Brad Edwards figured out the bcs. And so basically he did. He was on TV with you guys all the time.
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Kirk Herbstreit
That's right. That's right. And then he does radio. He was doing TV sports center hits. But this is great, dude. Obviously you had a hell of a journey, but this is, this is, this is awesome for you. And like you said, you just want to be part of something and kind of take off and go. You'll kill it.
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Ryan Rossillo
Thanks, man. This is an easy one, or maybe it's a tough one. If you had to pick today between Ohio State and Indiana who would you pick to win?
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Kirk Herbstreit
Indiana's real. Last year I was not a. I wasn't real high on Indiana. Nothing against him. I just never really saw it against a great opponent. And this year we have. And so one thing I really admire about Indiana is the consistency at the line of scrimmage. You know, they're not a gimmicky offense in this day and age of, yeah, hey, we're going to run some form of RPO or I mean, they do, but man, if you really watch them, they pound you into the, into just misery and on both sides of the football. With that being said, Ohio State skill and his quarterback, Julian sand, who I didn't know a whole lot about, every single week he seems to kind of take another step and another step. And we know that he's got NFL receivers everywhere. I would probably on a neutral field. Well, we're going to see it in a few weeks. But I would give Ohio State, I don't know what Vegas would think. I'd probably give Ohio State a three or four point advantage over them.
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Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, I imagine the spread might be. Well, that'll be an interesting one because if they throw like a two and a half on it, you're like, wow, they love Indiana. But there's going to be so many people betting on Ohio State. And I'm probably guilty of it too. It's like, you know, I probably would still pick Ohio State and it would have everything to do with the uniforms and the history of being like, do I really think Indiana can get this team? But I'm glad you brought up saying, because I meant this as a compliment. When I look at Ohio State, like most years, especially before the expansion, it's like, you're going to be more talented than the other 12 teams. Maybe, maybe Michigan has more talent that one year. Yeah, you're likely always going to be more talented than Penn State. You enter in these four pack 12 teams, that changes up that scenario. But then it's such a massive conference that you look through it and you're like, you know, in most years this team is probably good enough with any quarterback. Like you could bring in somebody where you go, hey, we might still go 12 and oh, and we don't even really ever have to throw it.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
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Ryan Rossillo
And now saying has developed into somebody, it's like, wait, you want that, that deep shot that he took where he got hit on that throw? You're right. Every Saturday it just takes them to another level. Which almost feels unfair because there's so many times with the Buckeyes where I'm like, hey, I kind of like the qb, but he's not what they're about.
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Kirk Herbstreit
He could be.
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Ryan Rossillo
He seems like he could be that guy if they needed it. They just don't need it necessarily.
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Kirk Herbstreit
Totally agree. And I think if you go back to that one game that you thought they were going to be challenged, it was Texas and he really watched that game. He didn't have to do a lot. Just going back to your original point, it was just the defense played great. Arch obviously didn't have a great day. The offense didn't do. Texas was there at the end. I mean, they still had a chance. But if you look, if you think about Julian saying he's probably the last name you bring up on why Ohio State won that day. But I think Ryan Day was very intentional with that. Like, he's like, okay, we got Jeremiah Smith, we got Tate, we're going to find a running back. Let's not lose it on this side of the ball. Let's. Let's just be smart and let's kind of gradually grow with this quarterback. That's where they were early in the year. But as we're, as we're saying, I think we all just kind of thought Ohio State's. Ohio State, they're special, they recruit well, they develop. And by the way, they lost eight guys off that defense that are now playing in the NFL, not on the. They play in the NFL. And this defense so far has been with Patricia, they've been as good, if not better. You know, you still have Caleb Downs, you still have styles. So I mean, let's not feel bad for him, but I guess what I'm saying is this kid, when he won at Washington, made me go, okay, he doesn't turn the ball over. If you watch. I mean, I don't know how many turnovers he has, but I. There aren't a lot of.
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Ryan Rossillo
He hasn't thrown a pick since September 13th.
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Kirk Herbstreit
There you go. So. So he's playing smart, but this downfield accuracy and Will Howard was great in that offense, but I mean, they picked their spots to hear Jeremiah Smith, but Jeremiah Smith kind of went off in that four game playoff up to that point. They didn't do what they did against Penn State this week, this past week, a whole lot last year. And I think that's kind of that, that next step for this offense where it's. If you're going to load up on the run, because we can run the football, we're going to take shots, you're going to dare play man to man against us. We believe now in our quarterback and we're going to take shots. So I think they're going to be. It's going to be a hell of. The great thing is it's not a subjective debate. It's not a hypothetical early December. We're going to see Indiana and Ohio State in Indianapolis. Both teams, regardless of the result, are going to the playoff. But it's going to be cool just to see that matchup and see who the better team is.
- [28:48]
Ryan Rossillo
The Heisman conversation, like, I'll admit, like, some flaws in my game where I don't like the propaganda, but you can't ignore how important the propaganda part of it is. And then it becomes this exercise of like, well, wait a minute, if this guy can be talked about like he's an accepted candidate, how come our guy can't be an accepted candidate? And then sometimes, like, it makes you think when they're like, have I just dismissed these people that I don't think are worthy of it? And, like, even with some of the Saiyan stuff, it was like, okay, but like, they're loaded and they don't even need them. It's like, okay, but it's not MVP here. It's who do you think? Like, I like to default to who I think the best player is. And I think at this point, like, he's the odds on favorite. He and Mendoza have, like, real cases for this. And it also feels like a year where I'd probably try to get a little too clever and being like, is there a defensive player this year that, like, I just love when the defensive players get mentioned. I don't know if love for Notre Dame with the two losses can even. Can be on the radar for a lot of voters. So I don't want to make it, like, sans now becoming the default choice. But I feel better about it, at least now that I did four weeks ago when I first started hearing it. Just because they're the number one team in the country and then he's the qb, which I think happened, you know, a few times there, where it felt like Bama's guy was always in the mix. And I'm like, that guy is not one of whoever it would be. That guy is not one of the best players in college football, but they have the best record and they're terrific. We're saying it feels a little bit different. Yeah.
- [30:12]
Kirk Herbstreit
And I think what I've learned about the Heismanies last, I don't know, five or seven years, it's almost not a race until you get to the last three weeks of the season. It's, it's. There's just never that Derrick Henry or that just obvious candidate. It's a bunch of quarterbacks that happen to be engineering undefeated seasons. Like you said, it's almost by default. Okay, let's see what Ty Simpson does. Two or three games. He plays great, let's say, in the SEC championship. Hey, let's give it a tie. That's kind of how I feel. Where the Heisman's been Marcel Reed's name to watch. I think he's been doing some stuff at A and M. If you're looking for a, you know, kind of a. You mentioned a defensive player, the kid at Texas Tech, the linebacker. Have you watched that kid play much? Jacob?
- [31:01]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, Rodriguez. He's. He's a. He's forced seven fumbles this year. Thirteen for. There feels like there's two of them every week. Like, I'm. Like, he was over there. Oh, he was in on that. Like, are there twins? Is it the Weeks brothers?
- [31:15]
Kirk Herbstreit
Right. But dude, there's. There's a name and, and kind of a Who's the best player in the sport. I know defensive guys rarely get traction, but that guy, I mean, if they're playing, you just. You're so used to wanting to watch the quarterback in the offense. It's fun to be able to. Man, where's that guy? You know, what's. What's that guy going to do today? Where's number 10? You know, like that. That guy makes a ton of plays, so hopefully he starts to get some traction. If they keep winning games, obviously game day is going down there Saturday. Hopefully that guy starts to get some. Some recognition because he, he's played as well as anybody, I think, all year.
- [31:57]
Ryan Rossillo
Do you feel comfortable saying you think this team. Fill in the blank. Is. Is the best team in the sec?
- [32:05]
Kirk Herbstreit
Clearly not. I think Georgia is the most resilient team because just when you think it finally caught up to them, they find a way to get out of it. Bama. Of course, since their loss against Florida State, we've all been giving them their kudos. They deserve it. You know, I think it's going to get much tougher. Even the LSU game. As much as you may think LSU fired Kelly, that's. There's still something there. They got Oklahoma coming up, so I would probably lean towards the Crimson Tide, but it's. It's still a discussion. It's still a. I think it's still a thing. You know, Georgia And Ole Miss are still right there to me.
- [32:51]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, I, I really. You had the Georgia Tennessee game, right? And you know what? I have always, you know, when I shoot you the text or talk to you, like, I always appreciate you saying it without like saying it, you know, and especially when college, like, you don't want to be super negative, but it, it was very clear, like you were pointing out some stuff with Gun or Stockton where it's like, you know, you kind of would like him to stay with it a little bit more and. But he's such a good runner. You understand why he's bailing in the pocket. But you were letting us know like he needs to stay with the Reeds a little bit longer for like this team. And then of course he has that ridiculous. Was it the play to Cash Jones where he gets hit and you're like, what was that? And then he's got the fourth down throw where he throws it in a bucket to the front of the end zone. And I would say like that was maybe a tease of what could happen, but it doesn't seem to be necessarily who he is as a quarterback. And you know, look, they, they ran, they had the big 36 yard run there against Florida to put it up. But I know Kirby kind of loves this team, even though this is probably the most frustrating team he's ever had there. But imagine, I just can't imagine if they had pulled out that Bama game where they shut Bama out in the second half. Like we'd be looking at Georgia's number three team in the country and they'd be branded as good old Georgia and this is the worst Georgia team.
- [34:07]
Kirk Herbstreit
Well, they don't have the defense of just Jalen Carter, not even closer. You know, just a guy that's just going to take the game over. And yet I've called, I think three of their games. There is something to be said for this because it's hard to, to find it. The 20, whatever it was. 22, 23, 21, 22. Whenever those Georgia teams were back to back titles, Stetson Bennett defense was as good as we've ever seen. They. They still have freaks. Like if you look at them, you're standing on the field watching them warm up and then you turn around and go to look at still a good team, you're like, georgia still has guys, right? But they're not. They're. They're like 94th in the nation in past defense. They have like eight or nine sacks on the year. They just get eight or nine sacks in a game. So it's a different team. But I will tell you this, and Kirby told me when we had their first game, he said, I don't know how to explain it. This team, they really, like, have bonded in camp. They really. It's. We don't have the superstar names, but there's a togetherness about these guys. And I'm not just saying. It may sound corny, but it's just refreshing to see, like, the receivers actually like to block. Like, the corners actually want to come up and tackle. Like, as a. As a group, there's not one guy. It's a group. And I always remember him saying that and just thinking, you know, maybe that's. Kirby's generally pretty honest with me when we meet with him alone. And then I watch. I've watched his team play. And when you talk about kind of the secret sauce of teams winning close games and being down in the second half and always seeming to find a way to win, I think some of that stuff is kind of a secret sauce to this particular team where they're no longer just. Just roll the ball out. We're going to beat you no matter who we play. They don't have that, but they got something going here that's something to keep an eye on and something to watch as they progress throughout the rest of the year.
- [36:15]
Ryan Rossillo
You know, when I think about this question I'm going to ask you, like, which unit out of these SEC teams that we're talking about do you like necessarily the best? Because, you know, last year is probably that pass rush from Georgia. After that Texas game, I'm like, give me that and then I'll figure out the red. Like, if I can have one unit from any of these SEC schools that are in the convers. I think prior to your game with Tennessee and Oklahoma, that one again in Knoxville, like, I might have taken Aguilar in that receiver group. I still, for the life of me, as you saw it in the first half, the idea Oklahoma wins that football game. Like, it doesn't make like Tennessee is going to be disgusted. They should be discussed it all week long. By the way, that fumble recovery was, like, such a horrifying play for the home crowd that you didn't even realize, like, did that actually just happen? That's one of those plays the entire season.
- [36:58]
Kirk Herbstreit
Absolutely. 14 point swing took the crowd out of the game.
- [37:02]
Ryan Rossillo
That was it.
- [37:03]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
- [37:04]
Ryan Rossillo
And it's a stiff arm for 30 straight yards and get hurt.
- [37:08]
Kirk Herbstreit
Hammy out for the game. I mean, you talk about just a lot in One play. That was incredible.
- [37:15]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [37:17]
Ryan Rossillo
So, you know, look, I guess I still like Tennessee's offense, but they got three losses now, so I got to move on. But Oklahoma, if they can survive this, which is. Which is saying a lot because we may have to talk about like, a three losses, SEC team and know as much as everybody's going to enjoy us from every other part of the country, you and I doing this. But did you see, like, Mater clearly has not been the same guy, and the Texas game was just him. I think he wanted to play in the Texas game. He probably shouldn't have played in it. Maybe I'm playing the result of getting the win because the numbers are overall aren't better, but being around it and kind of prepping up for that game. Are you feeling better about Matier now?
- [37:49]
Kirk Herbstreit
100%. First half, it was same old John Matier, same old Oklahoma offense since the injury. Kind of. Kind of looking for an identity. He was hesitant, he was unsure. You know, he's.
- [38:02]
Richard Jefferson
He's.
- [38:03]
Kirk Herbstreit
He's almost rattled back there without answers. It's kind of where they were, and they don't run the ball well enough to have an answer, you know, so if he's not making plays, you're kind of in a tough spot. Second half, if you watch the whole game, it was like, oh, my God, they rediscovered the magic. They're back to being this guy's back there running around, scrambling, making plays. He's not hesitant. And then it just seemed like everything kind of worked together. So if you're looking at all these different groups, what do you trust? I trust Marcel Reed right now. I trust A and M. I think Mike Elko's got something going. They may get blown out. Who knows? But just what we've seen so far, if there's one thing to trust, I feel like it's A and M and I like.
- [38:53]
Ryan Rossillo
So that would be the unit, because I kind of hybrid of the questions there, you'd say, which. Which unit? What. A and M's defense.
- [39:02]
Kirk Herbstreit
I think I. I got to go back to a quarterback. And there's just. I like some Marcel Reed's playmaking ability. I. I like the receivers. I like the Concepcion kid.
- [39:11]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah.
- [39:11]
Kirk Herbstreit
From NC State. I. I like how they, again, they play their asses off. And this quarterback, he is. I don't know if he's nationally getting enough recognition yet, but he is slippery. He can play within the structure of the offense. He can kind of sit in the pocket, but when ship breaks down, he's. He's got some Some unique playmaking ability. Like I said, he's. He's very elusive, he's very dynamic, and I think he plays his best when the pressure is the biggest. So I would probably give the nod right now to Marcel Reed and A.
- [39:49]
Ryan Rossillo
And M. All right, I like that answer. What would you do if you were Lane Kiffin?
- [39:56]
Kirk Herbstreit
I might stay. I really might. In the world we're in now. Nick Saban. We were talking about this in a meeting on Friday and we were just talking about, you know, there's always been structure and always been kind of like as a coach, you're at the Mac or you're at Conference USA or Mountain west, and then you hope to go to the Big Ten or acc. And even there, there are tiers. Ole Miss has always been like a second tier, right? Florida, Georgia, Alabama, lsu, whatever it is. But man, now like, what's your budget look like? What, what can you afford? What, what, what? It's no longer we win here. We send guys to the NFL. We've got tradition. No one cares. It's how much you paying? I mean, it's crazy. So at Ole Miss, without the pressure of Brian Kelly, when or else you're fired. Or two freeze when or else you're fired. Or Kaylin DeBoer, who's kind of right at the ship, when or else you're fired. Ole Miss, they're kind of like, hey, you notice the miles an hour? Look, we put it 18 miles an hour. It's fun for Archie Manning. We have fun here at the Grove. Like, it's not the same now. If he gets to the playoff and makes a run, maybe it'll become that. But what's wrong with coaching at Indiana in 2025? What's wrong with coaching at Ole Miss? What's wrong with coaching at Vandy? Like, I don't know. I mean, if, if you got the resources to put a staff together and pay your players, why not coach there and not deal with not sleeping at night because you're not going to win 11 games. And if you don't win 11. Ryan Day. Ryan Day had a 24 hour armed guard at his house last year after he lost to Michigan because of his own fans, because they wanted his ass fired. And then he went on to win four in a row and win the national title. That, that's not forgotten. Like at Ohio State or Michigan or those high profile jobs that you think are revered and wanted. And I'm not saying they aren't, but why do you have to go there? It's like in hoops? Why can't you just go to Gonzaga and do what you want to do? Why not go to Xavier? Why not go to Butler or University of Dayton? Why do you got to go to Duke? Why do you got to go to Kansas? Why do you got to deal with you better win or else mentality when maybe you can accomplish the same stuff at less of a stressful situation. So I don't know. I'm not saying he won't go to Baton Rouge or Gainesville. I'm just asking why. Why do you have to go?
- [42:44]
Ryan Rossillo
What do you think the best job is?
- [42:46]
Kirk Herbstreit
I think LSU is the best job and I think it is because your LSU in the state of Louisiana, you have competition, but no state, nobody within the state. So you're recruiting Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Lafayette, everywhere. Everyone grows up in that state. They want to play for the purple and gold, they want to play at lsu. So you got an embarrassment of riches in your own state. It's great high school football and then you can sprinkle in Miami or Florida and get into Alabama, whatever you got to do. But I think lsu, because there's no competition for the recruits and there's big time support, I would lean towards lsu. Of the available jobs, I think LSU has the best job.
- [43:32]
Ryan Rossillo
I want to pivot to some football stuff for the Thursday night football, the NFL stuff. But with your access and now prepping for that, you know, like you like anybody who loves football, I'm sure you're watching when you're flying back from the Saturday location, you're getting all caught up on Sunday because you grow up with football. Football is a massive part of your life. But now you're, you're in it to a level that's different because you're prepping for it the way you would be a Saturday night game and you're getting the production meetings and you're, oh, yeah, there's probably a level of access. I wonder if this level of access has changed at all the way you evaluate the quarterbacks on Saturday. Because we know it's this imperfect thing. I think it's a thing we're going to be chasing forever. We're never going to perfect the idea of like, hey, which quarterbacks work, which ones don't, which stats work, which is fake, what's real. All the, like a lot of it's the guy, it's just understanding the guy. But now being around the NFL like you have been for so many years, in combination with the college part of it, has there been anything that's made you change the way you prioritize what you see on Saturdays.
- [44:31]
Kirk Herbstreit
It's a great question. I fourth year of doing these. I've been an NFL fan since I was basically alive. You know, I think everybody's an NFL fan but you do it, you, you view it and analyze it and think about it very differently when you're calling games. Like it's been very strange for me these last four years. Usually Saturday you get home at 2 in the morning. Sunday is kind of like a veg day. In the past before I got this job and now Sunday as like yesterday I get. And whenever I get in Saturday night, Sunday is now I'm flipping around watching NFL. But who's my game? I got the Raiders and I got the Broncos. So I'm watching Raiders Jags, you know, like who's watching Raiders Jags? And I'm not just watching Raiders Jags. Before you and I hopped on here and after you and I hop off, I'll go back to my film of watching, you know, whether it's Raiders Jags, watching Broncos, whatever it is. That's, that's kind of what my world is. So it is very different. And I tell you, I think if in the Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, Tom Brady era, it was pocket, it was seven step drop, it was, you got to perform in the National Football League, you got to play from the pocket and they still do. But my gosh, how much the game has evolved and changed where Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and these guys are no longer your prototypical stereotype. Seven step can't move. Now you gotta, I mean look at JJ McCarthy, what he's doing with the Vikings. Like you have to have the ability to play within the structure of the offense. But how many guys are good in the NFL that can't. It's not there. I gotta get down and I gotta make a play. Almost, almost every guy now has the ability to get out of there and make a play. So I think when it comes to evaluating a college quarterback and by the way, nobody's figured it out, right. There's still so many busts that are first rounders and I think we get all guilt. We're all very guilty of looking at. I'm not saying Anthony Richardson or will Levis or bust, but I remember that year I didn't know a lot about Anthony Richardson other than he's played some football in Gainesville. He's a beautiful athlete. 64250, 40 inch vertical, runs a 44 and there's a lot there to look at on potential of what he can be. Will Levis played some football but was it consistent enough to be able to hang your hat on? He's a franchise guy. So I only bring those two up as examples of how you can get enamored with a guy's physical ability. And what's really, really hard to digest is Mac Jones who in college in Alabama playing for Sark, who runs more of an NFL system. You really get caught up in his ability to process and his ability to boom, boom, boom balls out in that offense with Devonte Smith and Wallotto and all those great receivers. I remember when he came out that year I thought I know Trevor Lawrence is nice but man, there is a lot to like about this guy and what he can do. And then he went to the NFL with the Patriots and struggled. Right. And at one point had Matt Patricia calling his, calling his place as an offensive coordinator. And I always just thought, man, I, I give up. I, I, I have no idea when it comes to college guys transitioning to the NFL and I'm so happy to see Mac Jones now has kind of resurfaced and is doing his thing with, with Kyle Shanahan who has a quarterback friendly offense and allows his guy to be able to get back, get the ball out, blah blah, blah blah, whatever it might be. So I guess it's a long way of saying that yes, I look at it but I've always looked at these quarterbacks and tried to project them and wondered how they will make it. I just don't know if any of us Jackson dart. He looks great right now with the Giants. Could you and I have watched him at Ole Miss playing in that RPO Lane Kiffin offense, said this guy's either the next Matt Corral or he's going to go to New York and be a superstar right away as a rookie. I don't, I really don't know, you know, so I still don't know on.
- [48:47]
Ryan Rossillo
Jackson, but he's playing exactly how I expected him to play once again because I mean he's, they're dialing back a little bit but he's already exposed. The first thing I saw at him at usc I go, this guy doesn't care about anything.
- [49:00]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah, yeah. And he, he and Dave were a great connection. But I guess what I'm saying and it's like it's, it's very, very hard in an era where you follow it. I mean a lot of these college quarterbacks, they're looking at the sideline there's Daffy Duck on a sign. There's, you know, Dan Patrick on this, whatever it is. And, and they don't huddle. You know, they don't, they don't, they don't have to do a lot of the quarterbacking that we've all grew up with and expect, because since middle school, these guys are elite at spinning it. They've had quarterback guru coaches since they were in sixth grade. Like, their skill is in a whole nother galaxy than when Tom Brady was coming out of California and went to Ann Arbor and was still kind of figuring out how to throw the football in Michigan. These guys like, like Caleb Williams, if you watched him in ninth grade or 10th grade, you would look at him physically and be like, that guy looks like he's a starting quarterback right now at oklahoma and he's 15. Like, as far as his mechanics.
- [50:03]
Ryan Rossillo
Right, Right. Yeah.
- [50:05]
Kirk Herbstreit
And yet they're so far behind on managing the game, understanding the nuances of the position, reading coverage, safety does this, I do that. And so it's just hard, I guess. It's a long answer. It's hard to throw a blanket over college quarterbacks right now because they're just, they come in so many different ways up through the, the kind of the grassroots of high school football. And I, I like guys personally that struggle. Go through some struggle in college. I like them to have a ton of reps. Brock Purdy at Iowa State. Mr. Irrelevant. I watched that guy play for four years at Iowa State. Now, I could have said, this guy's going to hit it big in the NFL, but I could have said, man, there's a lot to this guy that he sees it, he understands it, and he knows where to go with the football and he's accurate. That's it. I don't care how tall he is. Okay. How fast he is. By his third year, that dude was just like, boom, boom, boom. Sees it, sees it, boom. Answer, answer. Very rarely was he like, he was just. Yeah, he, he saw it and understood the why and he had answers. And so when he started to do well at San Fran, it wasn't like, oh, where did this come from? So I don't know. It same thing with McCarthy at Michigan. I was. When he went to, to go to Minnesota with, with Kevin, I thought, match made in heaven. Absolute match made in heaven. Now we'll see how it plays out. But watching him and watching his leadership, that's a kid that I think is just scratching the surface of where I think he's eventually going to go in.
- [51:53]
Ryan Rossillo
That System with koc, Tom Brady caught a ton of shit because it was like, you better be the best thing we've ever heard. And he was also replacing Greg Olson and Greg is one of the best to do it as well. And so the first year for Brady, especially that first week, it's like, look, I don't care who you are, there's no way you can be as good. The TV thing, I would always tell anybody is as bad as you want to be. Great day one. There is no way to avoid that. No matter what you do and whatever preparation and however, like you are just going to be better in six months, you're starting at zero. So enjoy the ride. And especially if you have that contract, like, I think you're good. I don't think you have to worry about, let go if you have a bad year. But I think Brady's been so good in this second year. So I don't know if you have the audio on the film of that. Have you seen the McCarthy third down.
- [52:37]
Kirk Herbstreit
Throw in that game and watch the TV copy yet?
- [52:42]
Ryan Rossillo
Brady gives you these moments where you can see how excited he is so that it kind of like, especially with him like on the goal line, he's like, I just don't like pulling guards on the goal line. I was like, you know what? I was like, I'm going to start paying attention to that a little bit more, you know, and his excitement on that third down throw by jj where it is clearly like, you've got to make this throw. And it's, it's not an easy throw and the overall box score for JJ isn't terrific. It's still, who knows, who knows what he's going to end up being. But I just think to hear Brady be that excited about that throw was beyond just the color commentary role of like, let me be excited about a third down conversion.
- [53:17]
Kirk Herbstreit
Oh yeah. And I, I, I'm with you, man. I, I was a huge Tom Brady fan in college. Like before he became Tom Brady greatest ever do it. I was, I love number 10 in Maze and blue. You know, they, they threw Drew Henson on him. I remember thinking it was one of the early times I saw maybe a coach made a promise of some kind, like, what's wrong with 10? Like 10's really good. And then Drew Henson was supposed to be either he's either going to be the third baseman for the Yankees or he's going to be the quarterback for the Cowboys. Like coming out of high school, he was the biggest name of all time. And nothing against Drew, he was a good player, but I was just a fan of Tom's game in college. And then he goes on to become a brilliant player, the best to ever do it. So then when he goes into the broadcast booth, only because I've been doing it for 30 years and I enjoy listening to guys, I really do. It's probably like maybe people who are out there who, if you're an accountant, maybe you align with people who are accountants or if you're a lawyer or a school teacher or whatever it might be. When I would watch games, I don't really watch games. I don't like to watch games with people because I'm amazed how much people miss how much bullshit and how much talking they do. When I watch a game there, like I'm watching the graphics, I'm listening to the crowd, I'm watching the director, how he cuts the game. I'm listening to the play by play guy. I'm listening to obviously the analysts. I really immerse myself into a game when I'm watching a game. And I know exactly what you're talking about. With Tom, I think that's the fan in him. Like, I think that's just him being as big as Tom Brady is. I think at the end of the day, he prepares, he does his work. He probably loves J.J. mcCarthy for obvious reasons. And when he makes a big play, he can't help but be excited. And I, I applaud that. I love that because. Just because we have a mic doesn't mean we're not fans. You know, we're. Especially if you see a guy make a play that you really. That's like, man, that's that next level. Hell yeah. Good job. I'd love to see him make that throw. And I haven't gone back and watched a TV copy of what you're talking about, but I will. And I enjoy Tom. I enjoy a lot of these guys and I learn from, from everybody. You know, I don't think you ever stop growing and learning, but yeah, I heard a lot of the nonsense. Tom's first year, what do you expect me. He's never done it right, so he needs, he's never worked with, with Kevin. And it seems like every game they, they get a chance to do together and every season they get a chance to grow together. Yeah, it's almost like he was set up to fail replacing Greg and a new partner. And now go be Tom Brady. The best to ever play quarterback, be the best to ever call games. You know, like anything else, it takes, takes Time, you know, to get comfortable.
- [56:08]
Ryan Rossillo
I wasn't planning to ask it, but it's actually like a good follow up with this is that you could probably do a Saturday game, biggest stadium in the world. It doesn't matter. You probably have your eyes closed and you and Chris could do an awesome broadcast. So was there an attempt by you to be like, hey, I cannot duplicate that. I'm working with Al now. I'm doing the NFL. The NFL, by the way. I would say the. The league and. And their fans are very protective. They really don't like these guys, you know. So was the goal to be like, I want to be as comfortable with Chris or I want to be a different version of myself and kind of where are you with with that awesome question?
- [56:46]
Kirk Herbstreit
I. I would say when I first. I've been with Chris for basically 30 years, right. A lot of that studio work. I've been with him in a booth now since 14. And there I could close my eyes and there is a comfort there. And so you go into a booth in the NFL, never called an NFL game, and you're working with Al Michaels, of all people. Now, I'd worked with Brent Musburger kind of from that same era, and I did college games from 06 to 13 and enjoyed that. And now you got Al Michaels. And I think, I don't know if you experienced this when you were doing that play by play early in your career. I don't know if you had a partner, if you were just doing your own thing. But seriously, when you work with two people, and I would tell Tom this when he's probably experienced this with Kevin, there is a cadence and a rhythm that is different with whoever you work with. And maybe Dancing with the Stars, you know, you could have all these experts that are Dancing with the Stars, but like, when you're with a different partner, it just feels. It feels different. And so I'm deferential by nature, especially to a guy like Al Michaels. So it took me a while. I would err on the side of not wanting to interrupt him, not wanting to cut him off. Al has a tendency to say his thought and then he'll have a little bit of a pause and then he'll have another thought. And I was so conscious of not necessarily being so much consumed with the game and the analysis of just trying to get comfortable with who I was working with. New producer Freddy Gudelli, who's done 100 Super Bowls, you know, and Al Michaels. So my first year, it was more about not just dealing with NFL Analysis of trying to help the fans know the why or the how to a play, but getting comfortable and making sure Al felt comfortable with me. And now in year four, dude, I think we had a turning point in the middle of year two. And I think going to dinners on Wednesday night, being very intentional about just the hanging and Al getting to know me as a person, me getting to know him as a person, being around Linda and his kids, his wife, his kids. Like, just being around his family off camera and then just BSing with each other about baseball. And me asking him about, did you call the series? The 81 series with the Cardinals and the brewers or the Royals? He's like, you know, we did, you know, Next thing you know, we'll go 45 minutes talking about, you know, Jack Clark and Tommy her and Ozzie Smith and. Because I made baseball freak, you know, Like, I love baseball, old school baseball. And I'm not, like, doing that just to do it. Like, I'm enamored with talking to this guy about stuff he's done and. And the Anaheim. You know, it used to be the California Angels and the Red Sox in 86. Like, people forget before Buckner, you know, they had to get through the Angels and, you know, just talking about Donny Moore and all. And I'm just sitting there, like, just shoot this into my veins, right? And so it's amazing how those kind of conversations carry over to our broadcast and the comfort and the familiarity, because the greatest compliment you could give Tom Brady and Kevin isn't, wow, Tom, you're killing them on the xl. It's. Man, you guys are such a comfortable. Listen, like, I just. I just feel like I'm hanging out with my buddies when I'm listening to you guys do a game. Like, to me. To me, that's the greatest compliment somebody can tell you as a. As to an analyst and a play by play guy. And I feel like the last year and a half, Al and I have been in a really, for us, comfortable place, and we sit when we call games. That sound might sound weird. I sit when I call a game without. I've never sat in my life. I've always stood. And then Saturday I'm back to standing and I'm in Knoxville and Holy, this place is going crazy. And I got chills.
- [60:57]
Ryan Rossillo
And.
- [60:57]
Kirk Herbstreit
And then Thursday I'll be in Denver with the Raiders and I'll be sitting down and it's like. It's like speaking a different language, you know, not just the xo, but the vibe, the cadence, the feel, and it took me a little bit of time to feel that out, but man, I'm in such a good spot right now with Al. Such I, I can't even tell you how much I love calling games without Michaels. Not because it's just Al Michaels, but the, the bond that we've created on that entire crew and. But it's very different from, from what I do Saturday with, with Chris.
- [61:35]
Ryan Rossillo
I have two things I just want to say. That little tease of an Al Michaels impersonation you just did sounds like tonally, like phenomenal. So I don't know if there's more there next time. So I have kind of a story to finish with before I do that. Kind of like a last question. The committee, the playoff rankings that come out Tuesday and I was going through it because I'm going to do my top 12 a little bit later on. But there's a Texas conversation. If they can get one of the two, that means they're a nine and three team. But they still got to go to Georgia. They got Arkansas. They're going to finish. So, you know, a nice little two top five team. Stop on your way out. Whereas we look at Miami and I don't know if we're going to read another story about how Carson Beck just loves football again after Georgia. So look, they've lost two of their last three. They've got Q, Cincy State, Virginia Tech, pit. I'm going to go over this in my top 12 again there. There's some. I'm curious to see what Texas does with Virginia because they're Texas behind him in the ap. I am, I am very much like, hey, if you go to Columbus and play another team that ends up being the number one team in the country, like you should actually be rewarded for going on and taking on that challenge. The committee, the committee and the voters. Historic. They don't want to ever do it. They don't. They can't seem to fucking sorry to get so upset about this. They can't seem to fathom of like who are those four or three out of conference games? Wait a minute. That team went and did that and they lost it. Yeah. But they have one more loss than this other team. It's like, well then who do you think is better? So I would personally and I'll do this a little bit later on, there's a Texas, Virginia conversation. But there's maybe a 9 and 3 Texas 10 into Miami conversation that'll happen at the end of the year.
- [63:15]
Kirk Herbstreit
First of all, they went to Columbus and they lost 14 to 7 and had the ball late with a chance to tie. Lost 14 to 7 against Ohio State. They went to the Swamp. When you know how the Swamp can get, the Swamp can get.
- [63:29]
Ryan Rossillo
That's not a bad loss. It's not a bad loss.
- [63:31]
Kirk Herbstreit
So no, they lost the Swamp. So I think you can make a strong case for a few teams. Oklahoma would be another one. What if Oklahoma takes a third loss? Think about what Oklahoma, just for fun, they're going to throw Michigan, who's not necessarily maybe a superior, but the fact that they scheduled Michigan as a non conference game and when Indiana's playing who they're playing in the non conference, Oklahoma played Michigan. And then you look what they have to go through the gauntlet every week. It's just. You thought that was tough. Come here. Bang. You know, hit him again. Bang. You know, they go to Tuscaloosa here in a couple of weeks. Coming off a game in Knoxville. So this week that's a good discussion. ACC had a rough weekend, obviously with Miami, Georgia Tech losing. I think the ACC right now is looking at one team, the conference champ in Charlotte. I think the Big 12 would be fortunate to get two. I think the only way the Big Ten gets four is if Michigan were to win out somehow knock off Ohio State again and put them at 10 and 2. If they don't do that, I think the Big Ten gets three. If you're in a fan of these at large teams and you're wondering how can my team get back in the mix? You have to pull for Notre Dame to lose. I think the only way some of these teams get back in and, and get a chance for a team like Miami to get back in it is Notre Dame who are almost kind of reserving a spot for. If they lose and they get to that third loss, I think that there's a good chance they're done and that opens up the door for someone else. So Notre Dame has Navy. They go to Pitt, which is a tricky game. Syracuse and Stanford. So Notre Dame still a couple tough games, especially at Pitt. But it'll be fun tonight to see or tomorrow night to kind of see where they, what they think of Texas. You know, after what they've been through so far this year, I'm curious, like.
- [65:31]
Ryan Rossillo
They should reward Notre Dame more than the AP voters are. I also think Oregon is penalized way too much if we think Indiana is actually this good. Like I would have Oregon in front of some of these teams again. I'm going to do my top 12 a little bit later. On in the show and then kind of that Virginia, Texas thing. But I mean, granted, nobody who's ever listened to you or I ever talk about the SEC is thrilled. Like, I can already see Canal tweeting. So Herbie and Rosillo plant the seed of 9 and 3 Texas in over 10 and 2 Miami. Yes, Danny, we did plant the seed. So there you go.
- [66:00]
Kirk Herbstreit
Let me. Let me ask you this. The coaches do a poll. The AP does a poll. The CFP rankings do a poll. They all must be guilty of SEC bias. The coaches as well, because the coaches.
- [66:16]
Ryan Rossillo
Yes. So.
- [66:18]
Kirk Herbstreit
So basically, if you're objective, I'm a big. I went to Ohio State. I was a captain in Ohio State. You don't think I want to promote the Big Ten? You think it makes me happy to sit there and promote good teams? I would love the SEC to have three teams in the top 25 and the Big Ten to have eight. That would make me happy. But you go by what you watch. And the coaches, the coaches who are actually competing on the field, they're putting the SEC so in the NFL in April when they draft these players, the sec, it's. Why is this. Why is this a thing? Like, why do you think it's a thing? It's such bullshit. No, it's called watching. Watching football. That's what you do.
- [66:59]
Ryan Rossillo
And how about this? No love for game day. Going to byu, Texas Tech. So, you know, let's. Let's hear it for the boys on this one.
- [67:09]
Kirk Herbstreit
Where were we last week? I can't. We were at uc, at Utah. I mean, whatever.
- [67:17]
Ryan Rossillo
I don't even. I don't even work there anymore. And I get upset about it. So, yeah, I'm so fired up for Lubbock to be the center of the college football world on a Saturday night. You're going to have the call that game.
- [67:30]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
- [67:30]
Ryan Rossillo
And as we were reminiscing a bit before we started taping, Texas going in there is the number one team in the country. Remember, Texas had to play like four absurd ranked teams in a row. So even to survive that, at 3 and 1, it's the Crabtree throw. I've got to find a picture of myself because I'm next to McShay. We see Scooter over there. You're in the booth. Fowler's losing his mind with all of his notes. I'm a little further down. Was standing.
- [67:56]
Kirk Herbstreit
Are you closer to the goal line?
- [67:58]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, yeah. Because I remember the angle I had on the throw from Harold the Crab tree. It was. I was like, oh, that's an incomplete. Like, I couldn't believe the angle that I had where he threw it kind of back, shoulders, the Crabtree. And then I look and I could see Muschamp losing his mind as Crabtree just steps past two defensive backs that sort of like, they couldn't believe Crabtree made the catch and then was able to pivot his body right again. That kid was such a baller.
- [68:23]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah.
- [68:24]
Ryan Rossillo
College it is to this day. And I don't know that I'll ever be, you know, I don't know that I could ever be as impressionable as I was then. It was my first year on the road, was my first year doing college game day radio. It was fun just to even be around you guys. I don't think I talked to Fowler for two years until he and I realized we were kind of wired a little bit more similar than we'd want to admit. But it's my favorite sporting event I've ever been to in my life, and I don't think it can ever be topped. That night, that atmosphere, the buildup, the leech angle. It's Halloween. Batman had just come out the tortillas. Why so serious? And the chaos, like, absolute bomb scene around that stadium afterwards. You're like, this looks like it may be declared a national disaster. Guys in pickup trucks with shotguns. I mean, just an unhinged. An unhinged back in time experience. I will never. I will never, I think, enjoy a live sporting event the way I did when Texas Tech knocked off number one, Texas. And I'm so jealous you guys are going back to love.
- [69:21]
Kirk Herbstreit
And that's awesome to hear you reminisce like that because you're taking me back to that 08 season. And you're right, man, it was Texas. Was Texas. Right? And just to put in perspective of people that aren't familiar, Lubbock, Texas is in the middle of nowhere, and they're not used to having good things happen to them, right? So they go to the game. They're used to being 4 and 5 playing Texas, but here they are with Mike Leach. I mean, they're in the mix. They're in the BCS rankings and they do the unthinkable on a last play of the game and get it to the best player maybe in the country. And he makes the catch that you're talking about and goes into the end zone. And you're like, what the hell just happened?
- [70:03]
Ryan Rossillo
They.
- [70:03]
Kirk Herbstreit
They won. And the real story was after the game, you know, trying to get back to the hotel. I Mean, there are cars, there are people standing on, not in the hood, but on top of their cars, and they're like surfing and music is blaring. There's fights over here on the sidewalk. Just brawl, like a straight out brawl and no one cares. And it was one of the wildest scenes I can remember. And I'm glad that you have that memory and you've been around a lot of cool sporting events. Pretty amazing that that one stands out at the top of them all.
- [70:43]
Ryan Rossillo
Remember, they rushed the field like three times. They got penalized each and every time. So then the kickoff was like, where are we kicking this thing off?
- [70:50]
Kirk Herbstreit
Right. Anything happen before that or anything happened after that? Like, like the Celtics and all these great teams have, they have lots of moments. That was Texas Tech's moment. And now here they come back in 2025, heavily invested with the nil. They have a billionaire and Cody Campbell, who's a former player, young guy, oil guy, who's made it very clear they're going to be all in on bringing players in. And now they got exactly what they want. They're ninth in the country. BYU's eighth made a better team win. With college game day and everybody watching, this is, this is a historic moment for their program.
- [71:33]
Ryan Rossillo
Had I not experienced it, I just can't appreciate, like, I'm not saying, hey, if you haven't been to Lubbock, you can't appreciate Saturday nights kickoff enough. That's not what I'm saying to anyone else. But I was lucky enough to be able to get to go there and then realize, like, oh, okay, you want to go to Dallas, cool. You want to go to Houston, cool. Oh, you're going to Austin, whatever. It's like, man, like, this is Lubbock. It's a little different.
- [71:54]
Kirk Herbstreit
Friday Night Lights, you know, it really is. Yeah. Friday Night Lights is basically what you're. What you're talking about with Riggins and the boys.
- [72:04]
Ryan Rossillo
Hey, this means a lot, especially to be my first guest on the first new episode. You know I'll do anything for you. And if you need an extra spotter, if Darren calls and sick, maybe I'll fly down to Lubbock.
- [72:13]
Kirk Herbstreit
All right, dude, I'm honored to be your first guest. Wish you all the best. Anytime later in the season, you want to have me on and down the playoff or whatever you want to get into. Always, always happy to do that.
- [72:25]
Ryan Rossillo
All right, you're the man, Kirk. Enjoy Saturday.
- [72:27]
Kirk Herbstreit
All right, take care.
- [72:30]
Ryan Rossillo
All right, let's talk about the big shack again, because this thing's basically a protein play. Between two buns, buttered and toasted potato buns. You're getting two quarter pound 100 Angus beef patties and the highest quality toppings made to order and totaling 56 grams of protein. That's the most protein Shake Shacks ever packed into a burger. Maybe the most anyone's packed into a burger. And the thing is, it doesn't taste like one of those high protein gimmicks. It's one of those burgers that makes you rethink what fast food even means. I gotta be honest with you, I was sold on Shake Shack before any of this was pitched. But the idea now I can rip out whether it's a high rep chest day or just a heavy chest day where it's like, hey, I'm going to be here a while. And it's like, dude, is that a new protein bar? Be like, yeah, it's called a burger. 56 grams of protein. It sounds like it's bulking season over here in California. The Big shacks available starting November 4th. So grab it pre or post gym to watch a game or just because you deserve it. And now you're getting your protein in while you enjoy this massive burger. Big Shack, big flavor, big protein. Every Monday through the rest of the college football regular season. And then obviously the conference championship games will give you our top 12. I don't know if anybody else in the industry even does this. So here we go. Number one, Ohio State, 1714 at the half against an inspired Penn State team. Coaching changes, hockey. You'd figure Penn State would win this, right? 21 zip in the second half for the Buckeyes saying just keeps rolling. His last interception, as I told you earlier with Herb street was September 13th. So if you look at the top touchdown thrower because like now we're starting to talk about this Heisman thing saying is now the favorite in the books that I looked at this morning at +175. So that's real. That's a real momentum number. Okay. Of like, yeah, maybe I'll just give it to the best team and a quarterback who looks like he is not just sort of there. Because again, I think Ohio State have a guy from like a dual threat who can't really throw. Some guy lighting it up in intramurals. They're probably still going to win 11 games this year. That's not an insult. It's. It's simply that like saying raises that elevates this. As we were talking about with Herb street not that long ago. So yeah, the last pick was, was a long time ago. But if you go touchdowns, D1. All right, Sawyer, Robertson, McShay's guy out of Baylor, Mendoza's number two, Saiyan's number three. So there's a Mendoza saying debate here where, you know, could you then go, well, Mendoza is actually more important to Indiana than saying is to Ohio State. I don't know, maybe, maybe if I have a Wednesday where topics are light and I'm struggling, I'll put together something like that for you. Number two is Indiana. They're the number one scoring team in the power four. Shout out to North Texas, who's actually number one, 43.6 points per game. Indiana's at 43 points per game. They are killing teams right now, 149 to 29. That's what they've done in their last three games combined since the win at Oregon. So since that Oregon win. So like, hey, is there going to be the let down here? No, hey, you know, maybe it was the Iowa game after destroying Illinois, but like, you know, we'll get to Iowa here. Are they sneaky good again down at Kinnick? But then like these games, if you're a national title contender, that's kind of what I want to see. Like, I don't want to see 27, 24 every week and be like, I know you're good, I know you have a lot of NFL talent, but what's going Indiana that is destroying teams since that win at Eugene. And I just think that's really important if we're going to start talking about you as a team that can win this whole thing. And look, the Mendoza stat part of it as it ties back into the Heisman conversation, it's certainly like saying isn't exactly dialing it back up a million times a game because they don't need to. Mendoza's only had 71 attempts in the last three games combined. Oh, and by the way, they ran it for 367 yards against Maryland. That Maryland loss was so bad for them, people thought the coach was fired because someone made up a graphic for it. All right, number three, A and M. I think you got to go here. A and M. There's I flirted a little bit with maybe I still like Oregon better than the voters do. I think I'd pick Bama right now against A M head to head the defense. The Arkansas game kind of messes up the stats, but the slippage here isn't that bad. It was still only 25 to LSU. They're off this week. So look, they're 25th in opponent's yards per game. The big thing with them is they may give up a couple more yards. And again, that's not a bad number. 25th in the country. It's not elite, but this number's elite against third downs. You've been on this with A and M all season long. Number one in the country. Opponents converting only 22% of third downs against this defense. You want to compare them to the other SEC schools. Bama's 45th, Georgia is 85th in opponents third down conversion. That's that scene. Georgia. Georgia Southern. No Ram man no Georgia. Uga Athens. Ever heard of it? Widespread panic. So old Smith not a college team. Old misses. They're 19th in the stat. Texas anyone? Can I interest you in a little Texas? Texas is 23rd. Opponent's third down conversion rate. So Marcel Reed. Herb street likes it more than I do. 15th out of 21 SEC quarterbacks on completion percentage. But he doesn't ever get sacked. Chambers, another guy doesn't get sacked. Same number of drop backs. So even when the the possessions look like they're a mess, at least in the on the Saturday field, Marcel Ree just too dynamic right now. So even if it looks like I don't know what's going on back there, you know, like I said, I'm just going to start calling him the Caleb Williams. Like these anxiety dropbacks. How many anxiety dropbacks do you have per game Saturday or Sunday with Reed, even if it happens, he's likely going to get out of it. So that's been a big part of their success on that side of the ball. Number four, I'm going with the Oregon Ducks. Even though I ran through a defensive profile there for the SEC at Iowa this week. Look at how Iowa some Iowa numbers. Can I interest you in them? Look at the defense first opposing yards per play. Oh, number one Ohio State. Number three is Oregon. Number two is Iowa. So a defensive battle. America needs a first down. So Iowa perfect Iowa profile gave you the defensive numbers there, their offensive yards per play 98th. So just as on brand as it gets. Iowa, that six and a half kind of feels like hey, Oregon's really good, they can go in there and beat them. But then it's like oh man, I was lining up for a kick to make it 24:20 and they made it like they never had a chance in this game. Now it's 24:20 and now I have a losing ticket. This doesn't seem like very much fun. Again, I don't know where that line's going to go, but it felt like maybe a nine and a half if they were really dismissive of Iowa or thought Oregon is as good as I think Oregon is. But a tough close to the Big Ten schedule for Oregon, at least tougher than some of the other Big Ten contemporaries. They've got Iowa, Minnesota seventh, usc, who's sixth. I would not look at that Nebraska game as a reason why now USC's ranked 20th. They're just running out of teams. SC's just, I guess I've just seen too much stuff because I'm out in California. It's like, oh, sc's so overlooked. And they're like they're all right. And then they're going to face Washington. Who? I mean, look, I think that's, that's four challenging teams. Washington's still technically ranked at 24. All right, number five, Bama. Because the head to head against UGA. UGA now at six. I move them up. It is crazy to think like if, if UGA had won that game, I should stop saying uga. If Georgia won that game against Bama and they're eight and oh, are we watching the exact same team statistical profile and all defensive deficiencies, lack of being able to run the football like they're 47th in college football in yards per rush. And that's with Stanton accounting for 290 yards rushing at quarterback just this year. If they were undefeated, would it be going? Oh, man, it is a Ohio State, Indiana, Georgia draw a line and that's where we make mistakes with records. All right, number seven, Ole Miss. They close with the Citadel, Florida and Mississippi State. Mississippi State's not easy. Lane Kiffin, I guess Jon Gruden, Well, I could say he ran so Kiffin or walked so Kiffin could run, but Gruden involved himself in every single possible rumor imaginable. And I think Gruden did it more than Kiffin is doing it now. I mean, it's just hilarious that it was like Auburn thinks that you're in the mix when Florida and LSU and Penn State are available. Silly. Auburn, number eight. I'm going Notre Dame in the AP poll. They are not as high. I don't care. They're 10th in the AP. They're 10th in the coaches poll. So look, this is where the BYU conversation is. Like, how can you do that when BYU is 8 0. Ryan, Notre Dame is 6 2. I'm giving Notre Dame credit for scheduling up big at the beginning of the year. And the fact that Jeremiah Love keeps Putting together an Incredible run here. 364 yards, three touchdowns, last few games, 67 yards receiving on top of that. So we're Talking about like 400 total yards of offense. And look, the defense is only allowed 20 points one time in the last five games. If BYU, Texas Tech, Notre Dame, any of those games, line up neutral field. I'm picking the Irish against any of those two matchups. Sorry, BYU number nine, not the end of the world right there. Only move not a spot before the Big 12 matchup with number nine Texas Tech, who we'll get to in a second. Look, I was not sure what to do with byu. You've heard me talk about this. The non conference is a joke. 3 point win against that disaster in Boulder. Don't know if he'll be on 60 minutes again. 24 points allowed to West Virginia who's on like their sixth quarterback this season. Two overtime game against Arizona before we realize that Fafita and the boys are kind of dealing again down there in Tucson. So Arizona's not like going overtime with them isn't exactly bad right now. But the Utah win, 41 points out of Iowa State who's kind of falling apart the last month. I feel a lot better about them, but I am picking despite having them a spot behind BYU, number 10 Texas Tech 43 at Kansas State. All right, where this game, man? Every you want to talk about anxiety, dropbacks, everything that wasn't like a design run from AV Johnson. This thing was a disaster. And how about a little Heisman love for Jacob Rodriguez, linebacker number 43 I think. I don't know. Forget seven force fumbles this season. Thirteen on his career. Everywhere. He's absolutely everywhere. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a number check on that one for you, Stanford. Steve, don't you worry about it. All right. 11, 12, 13, 14. What are we going to do here? Louisville out of conference, Nice. James Madison win. What are you gonna do with Virginia? Well, Virginia didn't go to Columbus, Virginia didn't schedule Michigan. And even though I may like, well I can't say I like Oklahoma voter. The head to head wasn't that long ago. And then the Kentucky game for Texas is certainly something worth shitting on them about. But they were up 3110 on Vandy. Vandy's a good football team. And then it was 34, what, 31. So they were in control of that game for three quarters. Nice win at home. You can laugh. Hey, number nine against Vanderbilt here. But like that's that team isn't a joke.
- [83:51]
Richard Jefferson
They're.
- [83:52]
Ryan Rossillo
They're good. And Texas smoked them for three of those quarters. So Texas with the head to head against Oklahoma, Oklahoma with the win at Tennessee, better. These are just better wins than what Virginia has. So I have no issue with it. And I wish the committee would. I wish they would listen to me. But we'll see what happens Tuesday night. For those who haven't heard yet, Skims now offers men's underwear. And I'm here to tell you it's worth the hype. Skims stretch boxer briefs finally give you all the movement you need for working out without feeling like you're walking around wearing gym clothes the rest of the day. Plus, they never lose their shape or ride up. Look, you know how I am. I'm pretty straightforward with you guys, but I was wearing mine the other day and it's not like I get hit on at the gym a lot. And in this case, I wasn't hit on at the gym other than a couple guy trainers that I'm really close with like, hey, you've been hitting hard lately. And I was like, true, but I'm also wearing skims. They make underwear. You can wear it to the office, you can wear it to the office at home, or you can wear it on leg day. Shop Skims menskims.com Let them know we sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gifts this season, the Skims holiday shop is now open@skims.com let's talk some NBA. He is part of the Voice of the NBA Finals now from ESPN. Also the Road trip and podcasts and the Richard show where he interviews people. We're going to ask him about that at the very end. It's good friend and sort of neighbor. Richard Jefferson, good to see you.
- [85:25]
Richard Jefferson
We are neighbors there. We were neighbors. I saw this thing the other day where people were shitting on Redondo. And if you live in the South Bay and you're a normal human being, not one of the uppities, right? Like, we're one of the normal human beings that live in a nice area and people are like, oh, well, Manhattan beach is too pretentious and Redondo is just blah, blah, blah. And then Hermosa beach, like, look, it doesn't know. And it's like, wait a second, I come from Glendale, Arizona. If you live anywhere up and down here, you are lucky. If you live here and you complain about three blocks over or three blocks down, you're really an actual piece of shit. So we're very lucky to live where we are. So we are neighbors. If we're in the South Bay, we are neighbors.
- [86:11]
Ryan Rossillo
We are lucky to live where we live. And I remember I had some elitist thoughts on Redondo. And now that I understand Redondo, I'm like, you know what? Redondo's awesome. Like, if you end up in Redondo, you're having a good time.
- [86:23]
Richard Jefferson
You're having a good time, right? They're having a good time.
- [86:26]
Ryan Rossillo
I wish I had made it out to Redondo earlier. Look at Manhattan beach prices.
- [86:30]
Steve
Yeah.
- [86:30]
Ryan Rossillo
All right, let's start with some basic stuff here. I had started the season being like, look, anybody that goes, look, I'm just going with okc. I can't tell anyone that they'd be wrong if you're picking them to go back to back. I mean, there's a million reasons, there's very few negative reasons. And my favorite thing maybe about that team is how you could have a young team in today's NBA world where drama is expected and yet they're the most drama free and also the best team. I picked Denver to zag a little, to be a little different. But who did you pick?
- [87:01]
Richard Jefferson
I think okc because again, I was always taught to never disrespect the champs. I think that they're in a very unique spot because they have a young core. You look at, you look at like a young Golden State team where it was like you had this core guys that in their first five years, six years, then they win a championship. Now you're like, like, can we keep them together and build on. I think Denver is the one team. Denver took them to seven, Indiana took them to seven. So it's like they're not that far above everybody else. But if you look at these other teams, they have eight guys that can all get 5% better just because they're so young in their career. Even you look at the kid Mitchell, Mark Dagnault said, he's like, dude, this kid is going to make me look like an idiot at some point in time. Like, why were you not playing him? And he's basically like, look, the first 20 games, games, he was great. He gets injured, he comes back five games to go in the regular season. Now how do I interject him? Rhythm, flow, all that stuff. So when you look at it, they basically, in my opinion, added a 10 point a game guard. Right? He's a guy that if he plays the 25 minutes in a normal rotation, he's going to get you 10 plus points a night. So you get to add a free agent kind of a player that you didn't have in your rotation last year. Right. So they get to add a player. So I look at OKC is very, very good. Denver is the one team that I'm.
- [88:25]
Ryan Rossillo
Like.
- [88:27]
Richard Jefferson
If those boys are healthy and turn it around and adding Valentunas and Brown and just. And I just think that Denver is the team that actually you could pick very easily over them because their series was so close and Denver looks like they got better and added more talent.
- [88:45]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, the AJ Mitchell thing I love because I was looking at him the other night and it was. I even had said it on, on one of the more recent positives, like, he's scoring 18 a game. You know, it was like four or five games in the season. A.J. mitchell's getting four, getting 18. He's 17 a game now. Jalen Williams, the one plays a lot. He's out. He's going to be reevaluated in two weeks, which means he's probably four weeks from us even thinking, like, best case scenario that he's going to play. So we're talking about at worst a top 15 player with his defense, you know, projecting to maybe be a top 10 player. And they're 7 0. And granted they get off to those two really competitive games in the beginning of it, but, you know, like, Shay will likely be a better basketball player, but when they have the full cast, his numbers will go down. Just because I think the guys that, like, it's almost like he won a title ahead of schedule on his own personal thing where like some of these other dudes, like, it's likely going to take Wemby seven years. You know, we know how long it took LeBron. We can even go back to the Jordan conversations of like, hey, is this guy just a score? If you're thinking about the great, like current players and where SGA is, he's actually kind of ahead of schedule, already getting the MVP and already getting the NBA championship under his belt. Which probably means even though I don't think he's wired necessarily this way, I think it's a very common timeline of the best players being like, I'm going to get mine. I'm going to make all Stars, I'm going to get my extension. I'm going to do all of these things. And then it's like, okay, now I'm getting sick of being on by the media here after year Seven and eight. And I've got to learn to find a way to take a step back statistically to then make everyone around me better. So that means at the end of the year, the playoffs, these people realize I trust them. And SGA can now like already do that, way ahead of schedule, which sets this team up even better for long term success.
- [90:24]
Richard Jefferson
But is he ahead of schedule? Is he ahead of schedule? Because you look at now Jayson Tatum, you know, it's tough last year with the injury, but Jayson Tatum wins a championship in the first, let's say half of his career. Jokic wins a championship, Giannis wins a championship in the first kind of half of their career. And then since then, now again, there's always going to be ups and downs and bumps and bruises, but Shai to me falls in that line of Jokic, Giannis, those guys that won that championship in their mid to late 20s. Right. So is Shay going to go and win a couple more? That's what we haven't seen in the last, you know, since the Golden State Warriors. Right. Obviously that was a unique situation. We haven't seen one of those players then transition into the back to back into the three out of four. We've seen MVPs. Jokic, in my opinion, has been the best basketball player on the planet for the last five, six years. Right? But he's got one championship and one finals in that time. You know, even if you would throw in Giannis and what he did over a three, four year period and still doing, he's got one finals appearance, one championship, two mvp. So that's not a knock on that. But is there a player that can turn into three, four championships? Three, two championships over a four year period. That's what we haven't seen since Golden State.
- [91:49]
Ryan Rossillo
I guess I would say he's ahead because our awareness of who SGA was going to be was delayed just by situation and then wondering like, okay, is he going to OKC in this trade where they're rebuilding? And by the way, that's like the quickest rebuild ever. That maybe it's like a four year run of like big numbers where, you know, with Jokic it was pretty clear. Well, no, I can't say he was pretty clear from the beginning of his career because he didn't have the same profile as like a Tatum or some of these other lottery guys. I understand what you're saying, But I mean SGA turned 27 this summer and usually like, you know, if you're, hey, this guy's one of the Five best players in the world has been going on for five or six years. He's getting closer to 30. It's when we start to turn on these guys, even if it's not their fault.
- [92:32]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, well, that's the thing, though. It's like Jokic, Giannis. Jokic, Giannis and Tatum, right? Like, they won championships and then kind of. I think Jokic is a little. Is different because of his greatness, but I think Giannis, you look at Giannis, it's getting real bubbly over there in Milwaukee. They went all in. They got the championship. Change coaches. It just like, it's been crazy since they won that championship. And so I don't think. I don't think that Shay people are necessarily. I don't think that their profile, shays profile or OKC's profile is so big where people would turn on them, like, if they wouldn't have won the championship last year. You weren't going to hear, trade Shea or we need to go get a superstar in Oklahoma City. They were going to be a patient fan base because that, that's, you know, what they do. That's what, you know, Pressy does. They make it. He's like, this is a team. And think about how many draft picks they hit on. Like, we could call him the architect, but it's like Mitchell, J Dub, you know, even Chet. Chet, you know, there were. You know, they could have taken Jabari, if you look at that, from that space. But they hit Chet. Chet's injured. I thought that they were a year away. They should have gotten a big the year before. They should have gotten a big the year before, and they didn't. They lose to Dallas with all those bigs. And then they see. They got Jokic and you see all of these bigs. The Western Conference field to go get Hartenstein. I thought that they were a year late. But Pressy, what he does, he's. He's. He's hit on draft picks, he's hit on stars. He's brought in the right, like the. The right free agents in Caruso. So when you look at egos, a lot of it, in my opinion, starts with the top. Your best player, your coach, your. Your general manager, president. And then who do they bring in? Who do they bring in? And they're batting a thousand right now.
- [94:22]
Ryan Rossillo
Does Wemby's start of the season change what you think is possible for the Spurs? Whether it be this year or whatever.
- [94:29]
Richard Jefferson
That timeline is, it is 100% on par and on pace for what you expected, right? Like he is going to do this. This is what it is. It's not going to be straight up and down. I don't think it's going to be this because he has so many physical abilities. And even on an off night, what did he have? 9 and 9 last night? Even on an off night, he's still going to impact the game defensively in all the different ways. But when B after his first year was like, hey, like, let's get this thing going. I showed you guys, I'm rookie of the year. I'm different. We not doing this three, four year, we're going to be trash. And he's too good. Certain players make you change your timeline. You look at Blake Griffin, he showed up and they were like, oh, let's go get this dude.
- [95:11]
Steve
A player.
- [95:11]
Richard Jefferson
Zion Williamson, they tried to do it with him. Certain players switch your timeline. Timeline. And so I think Wimby switched their timeline. And then they get Castle. They hit on Castle. This dude, he's a future all star. So they hit on Castle. They bring in de' Aaron Fox, they brought in Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes. So I my projections of them, I'm looking at what San Antonio thinks of him. If they didn't think he was ready or on his way to being ready, they wouldn't have fielded this team. Because now you put this team around them. Let's say they win 48 games and finish sixth or fifth, they're not getting a good draft pick. So they're loading him with talent. Being like, hey, before we have to pay him $50 million or $48 million, whatever his rookie max extension is going to be, let's capitalize on this space. So I think he's right where he should be. I think this is right where the spurs believe he should be. And so nothing that I'm seeing, right. He led the NBA in block blocks.
- [96:09]
Ryan Rossillo
And he.
- [96:09]
Richard Jefferson
And he played 48 games last year, led the NBA in blocks. So what are we saying? That, like, do you like, he was going to break the NBA record for blocks? So I like. So when I look at last year, that I'm basically saying, oh, this is just a continuation in the growth and a strength and an iq, more teammates around them that know where he wants the ball. Wendy's right where we thought he would be. And that's scary.
- [96:35]
Ryan Rossillo
There is a conversation I'm already having it with just, you know, how the NBA world works. We all love to kind of gossip and whatever, but I wasn't sure about who Castle was because you knew he played his ass off. But he was not a point guard. He was marketed as this point guard prior to the draft. You know, there was all sorts of opportunities for him last year, so that's fine. But his. His aggressiveness, his purpose, like, he.
- [97:00]
Richard Jefferson
He.
- [97:01]
Ryan Rossillo
He does not fear anyone from the jump. And the guy that I see now, I'm like, okay, so now you have Castle, who feels like a real thing. Like, I didn't know if he was going to be like, hey, rookie, a little bit of accolade here. Maybe we package him with something else. Because actually, internally we're like, hey, there's a ceiling on what he can be offensively. And now I'm like, all right, that. That whole theory's gone. Because what I've seen from him this year, it's like it's completely recalibrated what I think Castle is possible of. And then Harper, you know, like, my guess is he's going to be pretty good. I mean, it's. It's a struggle right now, as you'd expect. First two weeks, NBA career, let's not freak out about a ton of stuff. But then it leads to kind of like the de' Aaron Fox part of it, where it's like, well, does Fox make sense for them? Maybe it's this year, but does it make sense for them long term? And you're saying it does.
- [97:48]
Richard Jefferson
It does. From this standpoint, Fox is proven. He's an all star, all NBA. He's been to the playoffs, right? He's that class of player, de' Aaron Fox. And you're looking confused because you're going to look it up, right? I think he made third team all NBA the year they made the postseason.
- [98:06]
Steve
I'm looking.
- [98:07]
Ryan Rossillo
I'm just, you know, I got to check on you sometimes.
- [98:09]
Richard Jefferson
I don't mind it. It was either him or Sabos.
- [98:13]
Ryan Rossillo
No, you're right. NBA third team, 2023. Good for you, man. That was good.
- [98:18]
Richard Jefferson
That's what I do. So this is what I say, right? Because he's already kind of a proven commodity now. It's kind of like Mitchell, what Mitchell does for okc. Now if we get to the space and like, dang, we got to pay Case and Wallace or we got to pay one of these dudes. And it's like, well, he's still on a rookie extension. Now we can trade him, get a more. Because now they can kind of offset those little. It's. You get an opportunity to, instead of pay a guy, maybe move on, put him in a better position, and then you let the Next class of guy take over. So de' Aaron Fox, right now, he's the guy that goes one, two years. Now, in two years, if. If Harper doesn't make it, if Castle, like now you got de' Aaron Fox. He's the security blanket of greatness at the point guard position, right? So now that he's there in two years, maybe Fox does move on. And now Dylan Harper's ready and Castle's an all star. That's what that window of transition gets you right now with de' Aaron Fox. But when de' Aaron Fox gets on the floor, he's different. His speed, his pace is everything. He's one of the, you know, 10 fastest players in the league. So right now it fits everything that they're doing.
- [99:26]
Ryan Rossillo
The line is now infamous. We good in the West. John Morant with Malika and I watched the Lakers game last week. I just happened to be like, let me lock in. As Memphis La Luca was back. It was actually so easy for Luca. It looked like he was bored getting 40. So, you know, we could even do some liquor stuff if you want. But I want to talk about job because this is somebody who, you know, he shows up on the scene. It's so much fun. He. He immediately is one of the most fun players in the league. And because it's Memphis and because it doesn't, it just feels cooler. When it's good in Memphis, Memphis, it just feels like that fan base is like, so prideful of that team and, you know, just the different versions they've had of this franchise and how it kind of represents this. And I mean this in a good way. Like the griminess, you know, and then Ja gets hurt. He's got the two suspensions in 23. The total 33 games. He does another interview. I remember with Jaylin Rose where I saw that interview and I was like, okay, this is a major problem. Like, this, like, Jaw's delusional, okay? After the suspension, he does the finger gun celebration. And they're like, dude, what are you doing? And then he decides in that Lakers game, for whatever reason, to just stop playing. And I watched only him. And I don't know if I texted you about it, but like, immediately it was like people that were watching games that night where everybody was texting me, like, did you see jaw? Did you watch Jaw? And he just stopped. He didn't touch the ball. He didn't take a shot. The last five minutes, he wouldn't cross over the three point line. He'd usually be the last guy crossing half court. After the game, supposedly he and Isolo, the head coach, got into it. Then there was also the interview with JA where he was like, ask the coach. Ask the coach. He gets suspended for a game. So I'd ask you right now, like, is this mean this thing is over?
- [101:19]
Richard Jefferson
I don't know. I don't know. People in Memphis, as a basketball person that has followed and has been a part of this, I would say this. I'm not even sure who the owner of the Memphis Grizzly is. Do you know who the owner of the Memphis Grizzly is?
- [101:33]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, it's that young guy. Remember he had the cell phone thing and he was like, wanted to Tony Allen one on one.
- [101:38]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, yeah. This is what I'm saying. That's a phone call from the owner. In my opinion, in the history of being a part of the NBA, the owner. Ja, what's going on? Talk to me like, you are the face of our franchise. I need you 100% committed. What's going on? Tell me. The energy. Because he's such a generational talent and he's so unique and he's so marketable that you need to make sure that he's locked in. But let's go back. They trade Bane, one of his boys, trade Dylan Brooks. They've been trying to replace Dylan Brooks since he left. They've been like, oh, we need a big wing and we need a big 3 and D. We're trying to go get Jimmy Butler. And then what's Dylan Brooks doing? Whether you like Dylan Brooks, whether you're like, he is an impactful player for a good team in Houston and, you know, Phoenix, like, when you look at.
- [102:29]
Kyle
At.
- [102:29]
Richard Jefferson
Excuse me, but when you look at players that are being aggressive, right? He's one of those three and D guys, and they haven't been able to replace him. Now you fire the coach that drafted ja, that jaws had that success. When do you fire him? Five games before the postseason. Was it five games last year before the postseason? And the team was on their way to the postseason. We saw it and I think it kind of got it glossed over because of the Michael Malone news. When they're like, whoa, how did two coaches get fired? But it was like, no, there was a Memphis coach that got fired, too, right before the post season. And so now you have a new system, a new coach, maybe a new hierarchy of how we're going to run things. And now all of a sudden, things are looking off. Even Ja, the last part of last season wasn't ultra aggressive, Right? So do I Think it's over? No, but they got some. They need to go to couples therapy. They're not in divorce court right now, but they're for sure they're in couples therapy. They need to figure that out. Your best player, your head coach, it can't be like that, especially a new head coach. Yeah, he was there on the staff and he took over it. But I think that anything can be salvageable. We've seen things. We saw Kobe asked for a trade and then go on and went to two more championships. So anything can be salvageable as long as that, that thing is there. But let's focus in on Joe. I said it on road tripping. John Anthony Edwards reminds me of that window of time after Michael Jordan retired and then there was a counterculture. Right. I'm going to do it my way. This is my thing. I don't care what anybody says. That was Allen Iverson. That was Allen Iverson. He was a Hooper's Hooper. Every kid loved him and he was just so unique from how the culture looked at him to basketball, to moms and grandmas like Allen Iverson. That to me is Ja and Anthony Edwards. We're going to do it a little different. We're not going to be this cookie cutter. We're not going to do it the way everyone says. When I see that energy, that to me is like you don't often see those guys win two, three championships. You don't see the counterculture that you might see when one, you might see MVPs, but you don't see them winning multiple championships. So Memphis, they got to figure it out. They have a unique talent on their hands and then what they have to do is figure out how to get him back locked in. Because all of the stuff we've seen for the last few years, then the coach trading Bane, then coming into the season in this the last four years of job does not look like a high, high level locked in individual. It looks like a person that had off the court that's now having on the court that is still trying to figure things out.
- [105:13]
Steve
Out.
- [105:14]
Ryan Rossillo
What's it like, you know, give us, give us a story. What's it like when the main. I don't know if there's a story that you can share us where it's the main guy. I'm sure there's all sorts of stuff that we have no idea about of like how bad it gets over the six months. But when it's your main guy and it's already this bad two weeks into the season, like it just sets a terrible tone. And I don't. I don't know if I'm wrong on that one, if it's actually way more salvageable, but, like, do you have something that reminds you of this?
- [105:42]
Richard Jefferson
Okay, so back in 2000, maybe 7, 8. Jason Kidd wanted an extension. Jason Kidd wanted an extension. He didn't get an extension. Now, he averaged a triple double. We played Toronto and Cleveland over the 12 games that we played. He averaged a triple double in that. In the postseason. One of, like, five players to ever average a triple double through multiple rounds of the postseason season. He asked for an extension. They say, no. Rod Thorne. Rod, I love you, but also can't stand you. Rod ends up giving an extension to Vince Carter and Lawrence Frank, not to the most important person in our franchise. So J Kid looks around like, wait, you think Vince is running this? You think Lawrence Frank is running this? And this is no disrespect to them. Like, Vince, obviously a Hall of Fame player. Lawrence Frank, you know, was a very, very good coach right now. Now with the clippings. So J Kid was like, oh, you're not gonna give me an extension? You guys are just gonna run me into the ground, into my late 30s and not pay me to take care of me? He's like, you guys should pay. After everything that I've done, you guys should make sure that I leave. Stay here. Don't go anywhere else, and my name is up in the rafters. They're like, we don't know what we're going to do. So J Kid basically played very relaxed basketball, and that's ultimately how he got his way to Dallas. Devin Harris comes to the Nets. Like, Jake Kidd was literally made an All Star in the east, but I think he was traded to the west right around that window of time. So it was very. It was a very confusing time. But when J. Kidd and Rod Thorne, and they weren't locked in, we. Our entire team was on cruise control, right? Because J Kid's like, no, you're not going to play me 40 minutes a night at 30, whatever, years old and then not give me security on the back end, right? He was just like, I'm good. So there might have been a missed Knick game at some point in time. I can confirm, no deny, right. That he had requested a trade. They might not have been listening to him. And maybe there was a flu that happened during a Knicks game, and J Kid didn't show up because he was sick.
- [107:48]
Ryan Rossillo
Sick.
- [107:48]
Richard Jefferson
He was sick. And then shortly after that, the trade happened. So let's just say I've seen star players be like, hey, what we doing here? No, but also, JK was upset. They were supposed to keep Kenyon Martin. They didn't keep Kenyon Martin. That's what they were told. We were in San Antonio. We lose to them, don't worry. We're going to keep Richard. We're going to keep. We're going to re sign you. We're going to keep Kenyon. They don't keep Kenyon. And now he's like. He was bubbling. They bring in Vince. Okay, J. Kid's cool now, right? He's like, okay, I got another win. Then we go in and it's like, okay, well, where's my extension? Extension? It's like, wait. He's like, I'm the reason why Richard is good. I'm the reason why Vince Carter lifted up his. Lifted up his performance again. And like, you know, and J.J. vince and myself would both agree. We both agree with them. So when he goes to management, all of a sudden it's like, no, we don't know. And that was the end of that Nets era. Once they didn't extend them. They got rid of Jason Collins, they got rid of me, they got rid of J. Kidd. That was the end of anybody associated with the Nets in that moment. How that first story.
- [108:52]
Ryan Rossillo
I love J. Kidd. You know, I think there's. There's moments where I've watched him play. So this is just an aside and I'll bring it back to the main discussion here. But you just almost want to wonder what it's like to see the game in his body. Like, if you could just for a night, like, I wonder what it would be like. What the fuck does he see that no one else sees? Like, as a NBA player, had a really nice career, Richard, do you. Do you ever think of, like. Like, I'd love to be ant dunking on John Collins and looking like Collins may retire in that dunk. Like, that's probably going to feel pretty cool. You probably have a few of those. But for the 48 minutes to see the game the way Jason Kidd must see it, it must feel like you're playing a different spot.
- [109:36]
Richard Jefferson
No, it isn't. There. There's. I would say there's 10 guys that, that, like, in passing, when you can pass, you see the game. When you're an elite passer, you're not watching the same game. You're. He's playing a game and then he makes the pass. So obviously he's seeing the game different. And all of the people watching the game are like, how did he see that? That means his brain is functioning at a different level. J Kidd, the things that he would create. J. Kidd and LeBron are the only players that I've ever seen. We'd run a play and JK it would work. J Kid could run the same play and hit every single person for different shots. He'd run a pick and roll, hit the roll guy. He'd run a pick and roll, hit the pop guy. He'd run a pick and roll, hit the corner guy. He'd run a pick and roll. Like, he just could see, oh, this defender's coming in. Okay, this is what we're going to do. And it'd be the same play. J. Kidd has an ability to see the game. He would try things he wanted to do. We were throwing off the backboards. He was throwing off the backboard. To me, he was throwing off the Kenyon and Vince, he wanted to do a double off the backboard. We had an opportunity where either J Kid throws it, then Ken Cary would throw it, and then either me like you, because we would get a lot of steals in transition. He was like, I want to do a double off the backboard. I want to do a double off the backboard. Like, you know, you would do in warmups. And then the last person would go and dunk. He wanted to. We had an opportunity, but Carrie wanted to be second. It was so. It was literally, we had a transition, but that's what I'm saying. Like, how the fuck did your brain even work? Where you want to do a double off the back, where you throw it to Kerry, Kerry catches it and throws it off the backboard, throws the lob to me and Ken. These are the weird things that he's trying to do. And if you go back and look at the bowling ball passes, all of that stuff, J Kid is magic J Kid and then everyone else when it comes to passing, not like, it's not even Magic J Kid. And the only reason why Magic is above is because Magic was six nine. Magic was six, nine. So even then, his view arc is different. Right? J Kid's looking through the trees. Magic was the trees. So that's why those two. And, like, you could have more assists. You can this. But the flair and the vision in which they did it, there is no one better.
- [111:43]
Ryan Rossillo
All right, I love that we talked a little J Kid there, but I'll bring it back to the jaw thing. Jaw is not J Kid. We can get into stats here, and maybe there's an argument like, if you look at the profile of J Kid, he'd be like, oh well, he was slowing down. He's a little bit of this. But everything we've just talked about is the reason why you can't just look at a stat line for Jason Kidd and say this is exactly who he is as a player. Because he is raising everyone around. Like the way Steph's shooting and Steph's movement raises everyone around him and makes their life easier. That's what Jason Kid did without shooting during those Nets years. And when I look at Jaw like, again, it gets back to somebody who I think is incredibly delusional. And I don't think NBA teams or general managers or owners should ever operate from the position of we have to do some something. But this is getting about as close as to we have to do something with jaw. And the problem is, is whether it's his availability or his shooting, more importantly his attitude. I don't like saying, hey, like I'm kind of done with this guy. But if I were running that organization, I'm like, okay. And they've already, they've already mapped it out. They know what Jaws market is or isn't. Those things can change quickly. You can have something towards a deadline where another team just feels incredibly stale and like, hey, ceiling wise, there's no one else that we're going to be able to get like somebody like this. But this thing feels like it's already over and it's just going to play out in front of us, which feels really dramatic. And this is when you can make mistakes. But this is like three plus years of this shit.
- [113:05]
Richard Jefferson
I, I'm a fan of ja. I think every great player in that class, they have to prove that they can be the best player on a championship team. And then you look at, at Can Jayson Tatum do it?
- [113:18]
Ryan Rossillo
Can.
- [113:19]
Richard Jefferson
Can Shay Gilgis Alexander do it? Can. Can LeBron do it? Like, it's always that, okay, you're a first team, second team, all NBA guy. Can you lead a team now? Can you? We know your talent, we know your ability, we know that you can dominate a game. But can you lead a guy? And right now, at this point in time, I don't know if JA is showing us that he can lead a team. Whether it's the, whether it's the off the court, whether it's the on the court, whether it's the availability, whether it's the lack of shooting. If you put Jon is different situation where maybe he's the second Best player on the team. Maybe he's setting up a guy. And then, you know, you look at a de' Aaron Fox who's improved his shooting, you know he can make a shot, but you put him next to Wimpy and now he's a compliment, complimentary, all NBA player. And that's what I'm thinking. You couldn't bring in Jimmy Butler if you brought in Jimmy Butler. Maybe Ja's energy and world is different, but that's just not the case. So I think that. Think it's one. I very rarely say the owner needs to get involved. I rarely say, as president of basketball operations, general managers, those are the guys that need to get involved. The owner needs to get involved. Job, we're not firing the coach or whatever it is. What can we do to help facilitate a positive energy? Again, because your energy, the coach's energy, it permeates through the whole basketball community. When the basketball world is talking about Memphis and Ja and not in a positive light, that's terrible for their organization. And that's basically what's going on right now. You've had off the court, now you have on the court, you had off the court availability. Now you're having on the court availability. Right where it's like mentally, his physical, like, his physical health. I think that was part of the reason why he stopped driving last year. Just to be like, hey, I'm going to, you know, LeBron, for instance, wouldn't post up a lot until the postseason. I'm going to take down that wear and tear over my body over the course of the year. Year. And then come the postseason. All right, let's go to work. So maybe Job wasn't driving, wasn't being as aggressive, wasn't trying to do all the highlight dunks to protect his body. So then when we get to the postseason, I can literally just go all the way. I think it is close. So if they can't. If they're. They're in. They're in couples therapy. They. They definitely. The organization is in couples therapy. And if they can't figure it out, the divorce is coming.
- [115:30]
Ryan Rossillo
Let's go to the East.
- [115:32]
Richard Jefferson
Who?
- [115:32]
Ryan Rossillo
Cleveland. Cleveland. Look, man, you know, I don't know. I don't know how you feel about Cleveland before. They've gone off to a bit of a slow start, but they also haven't had Garland. They've also had other players, already missed some time. So I'm not really going to get that worried about it. But did you feel like there were multiple contenders? Do you feel like, that only team is the Knicks.
- [115:51]
Kirk Herbstreit
Higher.
- [115:51]
Ryan Rossillo
Milwaukee, like, how did you feel about the east versus now, a couple of weeks in, if it's changed at all?
- [115:56]
Richard Jefferson
I think Cleveland has the most talent. I think the Knicks, they have the grittiness. They have those guys that just have a bit of toughness. But the east is still open. I think Orlando's going to figure it out. I think Detroit's going to be in that mix. I think Milwaukee, like, how weird is Milwaukee right now is based off of like, oh, well, I want to see. Giannis wants to see how well they play in the first third of the season. You know, he's not making any. You know, it's kind of like, I'm here in Milwaukee. Milwaukee. But we better act right. You know, again, couples therapy or the divorce is coming soon. I'm gonna keep using that. I don't know why it works so well.
- [116:34]
Ryan Rossillo
Milwaukee. I. I feel like this is.
- [116:37]
Richard Jefferson
Come here.
- [116:38]
Ryan Rossillo
I mean, look this way.
- [116:40]
Richard Jefferson
We're really quickly. This is what my son. I love you so much. Give this to me. Give this to me. Oh, give me the whole thing. This is what he comes and sends me. Can you see it?
- [116:49]
Ryan Rossillo
Probably not, because can we watch the Marvels?
- [116:52]
Richard Jefferson
Yes.
- [116:52]
Ryan Rossillo
You can watch or not?
- [116:54]
Richard Jefferson
Yes, Yes. I love you. He just pumped ankles.
- [117:01]
Ryan Rossillo
That's good parenting right there.
- [117:02]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [117:04]
Ryan Rossillo
Imagine if you had said no.
- [117:06]
Richard Jefferson
Well, they would have already watched it. It's on right now in my house. They want to make sure when I walk out that it's like, you know. But I wonder, is he watching it or are they buying it? That's the problem. That's the. I didn't. I didn't get that clarification. Keep going.
- [117:21]
Ryan Rossillo
Well, you can bill us for that. For your time on a Monday. Yeah. I've had this kind of Giannis theory where if they get off to a really good start the first third, and he's once again Giannis. Absurd. The Ryan Rollins part of this is one of my favorite stories in the league because he looks like. He looks baller. And what he did against Golden State, like, going shot for shot with those guys, a little revenge for him on that one. It also. I'm just going to be totally straight. Like, the fact that Kevin Porter Jr. Isn't deciding huge possessions down the stretch, him not playing and then Rollins getting those minutes is actually, like, a huge bonus because I'm just not, like, good for Kevin Porter Jr. And his talent and finding a way to get another year out of this. But if they were to get off, like, hey, we're the three seed at the. At the, like, the third part of the season. The third. That might be one of those misleading. Like, the worst thing that could happen to Milwaukee long term is if they get off to kind of like a fake good start, but it's not really who they are. And then they hit the. Because if there's not one person in the league and people can sit in there and say, well, of course the rest of the league wants the Bucks to trade Giannis, I still think you're in this window now. If you were to move on from Giannis, you're actually getting the player. You're actually getting another. Like, there's some other player that you'd be getting back. As opposed to so many of these other trades where teams know their. Their hand is forced, and it's like, okay, here are the four picks, here are the two swaps, and here's the salary filler. And then maybe a guy we took in the first round two years ago that we know stinks.
- [118:46]
Richard Jefferson
Right? Right. This is the problem, though, because of this new cba. These trades aren't what people think. These numbers, like I'm saying, it's like, because of the new cba, it's not. It's not the same. Right. These trades, you see a lot more picks. It just. I don't know what the package looks like for Giannis, a player of his caliber in the prime of his career. We're not talking about the latter third of his prime. We're talking about the middle of his prime, where on any given the next three years, easily, he can win an mvp, another one. That's how good he is right now. So I don't know what that trade package looks like. Again, with the second apron and all this other stuff, you can't. I don't know if you can get the house. And even then, bringing in Giannis has to make the other team fluctuate what they do. And I think those trades of superstar players are more complicated than they ever have been.
- [119:41]
Ryan Rossillo
Orlando, you mentioned there, because they got up to a bad start. They've won a couple in a row. I mean, one of the biggest things Is they were 23rd on defense. And now look in. In two games, your rankings can be all over the place. They're like 10th on defense. So when I was looking at them struggling, I'm like, whatever they are, whatever their issues are, they're not going to be in the bottom third defensively. That's not going to happen to this team. But the offense, even with the addition of Bain and now you're either Paolo is a bad habit, bad one option which is I've heard some really negative stuff like my guy Goldsberry calling him Josh Smith. I was like, ah, that, that fucking stings.
- [120:17]
Richard Jefferson
No, don't do that. He's way better than Josh Smith. He's with Josh. Hey, no, I'm gonna help you out.
- [120:24]
Ryan Rossillo
No, we, we are aligned.
- [120:26]
Steve
Yes.
- [120:26]
Ryan Rossillo
Okay.
- [120:26]
Richard Jefferson
I'm like Josh Smith was never a. Like Josh Smith. Super athlete, great shot blocker, great piece. He's probably a second or third. He probably a third on a great team. And he was, he was.
- [120:37]
Ryan Rossillo
And it was six, nine jaw.
- [120:38]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah, yeah, he was. And he, and if he hit a shot, if he hit two threes, you live with it. But you're also like, damn right. I think Paolo is better than that.
- [120:48]
Ryan Rossillo
But also give me Orlando take then like him and everything because like I'm a fan of his and I defend.
- [120:53]
Richard Jefferson
Him as you should like look at what the kid has done. I think if they were three and one right now we'd be talking like again. That's what I'm saying. We're giving four game sample sizes and be like, oh, he, he's Josh Smith. Or oh, they should trade him. Or, or this team is trad. No are the bl. That's just. I, I tell everybody now this is not the world we live in. You get a 10 game sample to start the season. You got new coaches, you got new players, you got guys that are moving into homes, you got guys getting settled. Are they 100% like this on basketball right now? No one is because you're like, okay Bane, where do you like it? Okay, now this is in practice now it's like, okay, okay, how do you like it? Now it's also a recognition of like oh, he likes that pick and pop or oh, that's his dribble up shot. So let me go crash the board. There's so much IQ that's learned over the first 10, 15, 20 games. If everyone's healthy, think about Deandre Ayton missing time. Think about LeBron missing time with the Lakers. So when I look at Orlando, I'm like, you got bang a couple other injuries. You got a new system. So I give guys at 20 games, 25 games. Now I know who you are. Now I can now I can unleash why is you're shooting. What's going on with your defense first especially the last thing I'll say is like imagine if you're a top five team if you're Denver, if you're okc, if you're, you're playing against juggernauts to start the season because that's the NBA marquee, right? It's like, oh, it's Knicks versus Celtic. Like undefeated teams don't often happen eight games into the season. If you're a great team because you're playing against the other marquee team teams and eventually you're going to drop one. So I don't put too much stock in Orlando. I think Jamal Mosley is a great coach. I think they got a great number one. You think Wagner and what he's doing. And so you look at it, give me 10, 15 games. Remember Indiana was like a 500 team the first half of the year last year and then go back to another conference finals, they figure out their defense, they figure out their flow and then they end up being one of the best teams in the second half of the year. Why? There's a reason why January 1st is always a benchmark for great teams in our league. What is their record from January 1st on? Because up until January 1st, everyone's starting to figure it out. Christmas Day starts. The NBA season is a term we use. Why is that? Because once, if you're the best team from January to April are a top three defense, top three offense. Offense, that's who you are. Before that you're figuring it out.
- [123:28]
Ryan Rossillo
What are the Lakers going to look like when LeBron's back?
- [123:32]
Kyle
Good.
- [123:33]
Richard Jefferson
I think good. I think good. From a space of. You look at Laravian, what he's doing. I think if you look at what Austin Reaves proves, he can be a very, very good playmaker, but also he has the ability to play off of superstars, right? So I think when you have, what's amazing about, about the jump that Austin Reeves has had is like you have, like you have LeBron, you have Luca, now you have Austin reeves, you have three 20 point A game scorers that can give you 10 assists on any single night. That's monstrous, right? So Austin, you just need people that can play off the ball. That's what Austin is. That's what Larabia is. I, I think you look at Marcus Smart, his plus minus is the best on their team. So they have Marcus Smart and then they have, have Vanderbilt energy guys, right? So when Deandre Ayton is kind of going up 90% for a rebound, you got, you know, you got, you know, Vanderbilt coming in and cleaning up. When, when you know Austin Reeves or, or Luca might be struggling against the guard defensively you got Marcus smart. So it's like I think their team again, I think that they're if healthy, I think they're a 50 win team, kind of right where they were last year and then they're going to need to play well in the playoffs. But this team is better than they were last year going in like if they were to start the playoffs, this team is more talented than they were last year.
- [124:54]
Ryan Rossillo
I do worry about like the rumbling stuff with LeBron and yet I can't quite figure out what it would be like. Did he want the extension? Did he want them to trade all the draft picks? You know, they're gift wrapped. Luca, the Reeves thing is completely worked out. I'm not an Ayton guy, but he was a necessary addition and considering what they gave up for him. So they had a really good off season and on top of everything else, like if I wanted to be, I was like, you're going to get mad at the franchise that drafted your son and then gave him like a four year deal. So granted, when you're, when you are the absolute best in the world at what you do, you're probably not counting the favors people have done for you. You're only like conditioned to think of how am I being done wrong. But if, if they're in a nice little stretch here, there's just, there's just a lot of rumblings, like, oh, you know, maybe he's unhappy, is this, this and this. But like, okay, but at some point, 25, 26, at least for this season, and your goals and the team's goals, whatever slight you felt, you're probably going to have to get over and I don't know.
- [125:50]
Richard Jefferson
Why do you feel. Well, okay, okay. Why do you feel? This is the, I think this is the biggest issue for the big guy, for Braun. Why do you feel like there's rumblings? Why do you feel like there's rumblings he's been injured, like he's 40, 41 years old, whatever. He's got little back issue which he's had over the course of his career. It, he's always been available for all NBA, right. Is he going to hit that game mark? And then you look at it, it's like because he's not talking to the media, he's got sciatica. Is he supposed to be jumping up and down if you've got back issues? Like, yes, he gets up and down, he's feeling better. But we know one thing, LeBron loves to play basketball. He loves to. So if he's frustrated that he can't be out there with his teammates, but because he's LeBron James, because he is this, this ecosystem of attention, every eye he's. The game's going on. What's going on with LeBron? Do you see he's not standing up. He looks a little grumpy. What can we write about that? What can we talk about that? That's what the energy is. He hasn't said a thing. He's been tweeting out support for his teammates. Well, he couldn't go to this game, but he was at the Dodger game and it's like again, now there's run rumblings. Where are the rumblings coming from? Like you said, look, they've got a great team. They made the plays. They bring in your son. What, what is the run? You think the extension. You think Ron doesn't. The Brown's got plenty of money. So my point that I'm.
- [127:13]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, but he doesn't like I'll push back on that. It has been. That's a point of pride that he is as highly compensated as he can be over the years. Like it is. Hey, I'm not taking the discount. Even though, look, he still makes less than other players and like that. But I don't, I don't think it has anything to do with his bank account on whether or not he feels respected with financial decisions.
- [127:34]
Richard Jefferson
But didn't he sign an extension? Was last summer, the summer before he.
- [127:37]
Ryan Rossillo
Signed a. Yeah, it was the one and one. One. Yeah.
- [127:40]
Richard Jefferson
He's a 40 year old guy, right? 39. Signing a one and one at what number 50 million. Yeah, I, I say that to say we are so conditioned in the media to like search for what's going on. What's the issue? The team is playing well. He's been supportive on social media. He hasn't talked to the media and he's been, hasn't been, he hasn't been animated enough on the bench.
- [128:05]
Ryan Rossillo
So are you suggesting anyone that thinks that there's rumblings that it's all bullshit because of the lack of access?
- [128:11]
Richard Jefferson
I think that there isn't an NBA player or team that doesn't have rumblings everywhere like that's stat like that's just part of our job. But I do believe that 100% that. Well, no, no, no, no, no. Something's off. And why is LeBron acting like this? It's like, well, you need something to talk about, right? You need something to talk about. LeBron is not playing his team's Playing well. So, like, the initial thing is we can't go positive because he's not playing. We can't go positive. Right. They're not going to be. Look at how excited LeBron is to not be playing to start the NBA season. So it's like, well, what's wrong with LeBron? Why is he not playing? Is this the end? But, like, the negative flow so quickly and he gives you excuses. I'm not saying that he gives you something, but I have not seen anything that would imply that he is mad at the organization that he is. Only thing I've seen is it looks like a frustrated, great, frustrated great player that's not playing this yet this season.
- [129:13]
Ryan Rossillo
Do you like Houston? Dramatic pause.
- [129:22]
Richard Jefferson
I do. I really, really like Houston. I think defensively they can be elite. I don't. When they have that huge lineup that they can throw out there, that really big lineup, I think you can drive and attack that lineup. I think that. That. But I look at. Can they handle. I know Kevin Durant can handle it, but can those, the younger players handle the intensity that it's going to take for them to accomplish what that goal is? Right. Thompson, Shingoon, all of those guys. There's a difference between being the number two seed during the regular season or going to the second round. There's a difference. When you say we want to win an NBA championship, that's a. That's a big jump. And I think IME has that intensity that. So it's just a matter of whether or not those young guys can meet and match that intensity. I think that's part of the reason why Green is gone. They didn't think that he could raise that intensity or he wasn't on the timeline. Obviously, Kevin Durant's available, but it's like, there's an intensity that it takes, and Houston has to show it. That's all.
- [130:25]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, I like watching them a lot. I mean, this has been a couple years now with this group, and granted, you know, some of the names have changed here and there, but I always kind of look forward to them because I. I'm. I'm always asking, like, a very simple question and be like, you can like them, but, like, how much are you going to let yourself like them? Which means what do you think they would do against Denver? What do you think they would do this version against an okc? And a lot of it rests on a man. I mean, if you're waiting for him to turn into a shooter at some point, I mean, it's been a pretty Disastrous start even by his standards statistically. So I don't know that that's going to happen now in year three for Amen. But I think there's some other responsibility stuff with him that like, bigger picture I've been pleased with. Like, it's, it's not perfect. I don't know that it's always going to work, but like it's almost development minutes for a team that's actually hoping to be like a two or three seed, which is really hard to pull off. But roster wise, they may have no choice.
- [131:18]
Richard Jefferson
That's what they were last year and yes, right. But I, I think the athlete's still.
- [131:23]
Ryan Rossillo
Running it enough to be like, okay, everybody, like, enough of your, like, let's.
- [131:27]
Richard Jefferson
And that's the issue. The Van Fleet being gone forces Thompson into an on ball position. We've seen Kevin Durant plays better when he has a point guard. It doesn't have to be true, but when he has a playmaking point guard with a high basketball iq, like Kevin Durant plays better. And so I think the minute Van Fleet got hurt, I think that there's probably. I. Let me say this. What's the best way to say this? I think that there are a lot of other players that they could have lost on their roster and been in a better position versus Van Vliet. That's my opinion. I think what he brings, the stability that he brings, I think you look at like a Kyle Lowry when he was in Toronto, was he the mo. No, but there was something about when Kyle was on that court that made.
- [132:15]
Ryan Rossillo
Absolutely right. Like he's one of my least favorite players that I've ever seen of the modern era. And I will tell you, there were possessions where it's like, this guy's totally in control and he's going to get you that good look, like the way this endangered species, that position is like, it's. All right, enough of your, Enough of this stuff. Like we're going to come down now and this is what we're going to do. And Lowry epitomized that during that run.
- [132:37]
Richard Jefferson
So. Absolutely. Yeah. And let me say this though. Like, I have two little kids and I teach and like, you know, they're learning to play basketball. I'm not teaching them 3 and D. I'm not teaching them post up. I'm teaching them the point guard position, how to catch the ball and look up. What play should you run? What. What plays would you run for each one of your players on a court? Okay. Shingun needs a shot. Okay. Kevin Durant needs a shot. What two plays are you going to run? Where does he like it? That's the basketball IQ that you said is a forgotten position. It's not just come down, run a pick and roll. Who are the five guys that are open? Because the pick and roll we talked about with J Kid earlier, I can come down and get different players every single night, right? Like, hit a guy on the same pick and roll. But what do I do when Kevin Durant needs to shot? What do I do when this guy needs a shot? What do I do when they're on an 8, 0 run? What are our top three plays? That's it, man.
- [133:25]
Ryan Rossillo
That's it. Look, the pick and roll things like, okay, roll guy, pop guy, to your point on Kid. But I mean, Kid was also like, that was kind of my Gary Payton thing. Like, I just see Gary Payton up close for like a full season. It's like Gary Payton knows, like, hey, this guy hasn't eaten yet. This guy hasn't eaten in like five minutes. And we need his defense and we need his rebound. And like, I got to get him a touch here. Even if I don't like the matchup, even if it's ISO, like, hey, this is your possession. And that's something that I think is almost completely eliminated from the game.
- [133:56]
Richard Jefferson
It's. But we still see it from great players. We still see it. Like, how many times did we see AD with the Lakers and was like, why hasn't he had a touch in the second half? Why hasn't he had a touch in the fourth? Right? That's basketball IQ of the teammates around you, of the coaching staff of, like, that's also a lot. AD's got to go get it. But it's like, I would see that Donovan Mitchell has done a really good job of that, right? Where it's like, he'll defer to the second half. He'll defer the second quarter. He's done a really good job because he's like, go eat. And if you. Kobe would do that early sometimes he would set the tone primarily. But there were times where he would try and get Powell going. He would try and get guys away because I know I'm going to need him late. And if I wait until late, late, they might. I might not have them. So when I look at the way that certain teams are running, that's why I think that Kevin Durant and them losing Fred early on in the season pushes Thompson back into a spot of like, not that. Is he not going to be a Great player for the next decade, but is he ready to do those little bitty incremental things? Draymond Green, great at it. Somebody needs a shot, right? There are certain players, when you look at championship teams that like, understand the IQ of what is needed, who is needed. How do I get people going? Who has it tonight, who doesn't? I promise you, I've seen it where I've missed three, four shots and J. Kidd just stopped passing me the ball because Vince had it going or Kenyon had it going. Not in a bad way, because you have to understand, it's like, all right, I'm three for nine tonight, right? And J. Kidd will look at me and throw the ball that way, right? And that's like an understanding. Okay, Vince is 6, 4 for 8, right? But then it would also be reversed where Vince would be 3 for 9 and I would be 6 for 8. He would look at Vince and throw that ball to me. That's the IQ that I think Houston is lacking. We saw it in Phoenix. Who's the point guard? You're asking Devin Booker to read and see the game. Now he can create because he's a great basketball player. Bradley Beal, that's not his natural spot. Kevin Durant is like, I'm a weapon. I need people to let me go shoot this. Shoot this.
- [135:58]
Ryan Rossillo
Weapon.
- [135:59]
Richard Jefferson
Weapon. And so when we bring it all back to Houston, that's my, my one thing. Do they have the IQ to. To manage what's going to take for an actual long run in the postseason? They've got the talent, they got the ability, they got the position. But do they have the iq? And that's the part that I think we have got to just wait and see.
- [136:19]
Ryan Rossillo
Let's do this again, man. Again. Richard Jefferson, espn. He'll be on the finals with Breen and Legler, Road trip and his podcast with the crew. And of course, the Richard show is coming back as well.
- [136:30]
Richard Jefferson
Well, yes, the Richard show is coming back. We did Tim Duncan's episode about 18 months ago.
- [136:36]
Ryan Rossillo
Just prepping for the next one. I see.
- [136:39]
Richard Jefferson
I did it 18 months ago. And then that off season, JJ decides to take a Laker head job. So now I'm up for the finals. So I didn't really do any kind of like, go have fun, just joke around stuff because I was trying to show that I could be locked in serious and do all this things. Once we got the finals, I signed my new contract. Then it's like, okay, let's have fun. So I started doing one on one interviews. Very you know, I'll give some respect to Sunday conversations to. To between Two Ferns, where I don't believe that the. The sports media or the basketball media allows athletes to just have fun. We don't like. It's very inside stuff. It's very. We sit down. We did Tyrese Halliburton. We did Jalen Brunson's about to come out this week.
- [137:25]
Ryan Rossillo
We.
- [137:26]
Richard Jefferson
We. We're Draymond. We got Gilbert. But we're gonna have to wait on that till the Feds come through. TJ McConnell, Robert Horry. We've done some really good players, and the whole premise behind it is let's sit down, talk about nothing, laugh and joke. And it's 10 minutes on YouTube. Go subscribe.
- [137:43]
Ryan Rossillo
All right. Thanks, man. We'll talk again soon.
- [137:45]
Richard Jefferson
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
- [137:48]
Ryan Rossillo
You didn't think we'd close out the show without telling you about the Big Shack one more time, did you? Third time's the charm, and this burger's got a third bun to prove it. The Big Shack is that classic stacked burger profile you might recognize, but with Shake Shack's ingredients and care behind it, it's got that nostalgic, familiar taste that everything about it feels elevated. The sauce is tangy and creamy. The 100% Angus beef patties are perfectly smashed with caramelized edges, and the bun actually holds up. You can tell the difference with something's made to order quarter. It's not just about being big. It's big and good. This burger is not around forever. It drops November 4th and runs through the end of the year. So, yeah, you've got that burger craving, but want it done right. This is the move. I'll be honest, the third bun kind of makes it gives you that perfect middle bite every time. I can't take a bite right now because I'm doing an ad. Sounds familiar. Made different. And they mean it with this one. You want details?
- [138:50]
Kyle
Bye.
- [138:51]
Ryan Rossillo
I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?
- [138:57]
Kirk Herbstreit
I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.
- [138:59]
Ryan Rossillo
I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid.
- [139:05]
Richard Jefferson
So now you know what's possible.
- [139:07]
Ryan Rossillo
Let me tell you what's required. It is life advice. Advice. Life advice. Rr.gmail.com. we have Ceruti, we have Kyle. Where you get some red storm gear. Is that. That might look like 24, 25 gear. So we have. Have we not updated you with the St. John's gear?
- [139:24]
Kyle
I've got nothing with Adidas on it. I do not. So Shout out to Rick for closing that deal. But I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be going down a couple times this year. I. I bought one for the Creighton game. But I'm gonna try to maybe get to Carnes Sec as well and visit the team shop. I'll load up. XL still. Ryan, I'm going to pick you up some stuff.
- [139:42]
Ryan Rossillo
Getting close to double xl, buddy. Where are you from? Are you in a nursing home right now?
- [139:50]
Kyle
No, this is just, you know, I'm a little bit homeless job wise right now, you know. You know, we. We did some Zoom meetings before and you're like, dude, look at that wood paneling.
- [139:58]
Ryan Rossillo
Please do the.
- [139:59]
Kyle
Please do the pod from there. And then the, you know, the zoom cuts out. I'm like, that's not really good.
- [140:03]
Ryan Rossillo
Good.
- [140:03]
Kyle
My mom swears she has the best WI fi and I'm like, I'm just not going to fight you. So I'm at my dad's house with some. Found some blackout curtains. It's a work in progress. Might be getting an office. I don't know. We're juggling stuff.
- [140:14]
Ryan Rossillo
Whoa.
- [140:15]
Steve
Gotta get a plant situation in there too. Looking good.
- [140:18]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, A lot of sun. A lot of sun. So wait, you didn't like my. In some of the test runs video stuff? You didn't like me mentioning the, the faux rock wall and the wood paneling on the beam supports?
- [140:29]
Kyle
Man, I was, I was happy to do it. I was like, you know what? I just wanted to see the smile on your face.
- [140:33]
Ryan Rossillo
Base.
- [140:34]
Kyle
But the WI fi was. The WI fi was bad. And I was like, this is not a good start. So I gotta, you know, I'm kind of hustling around trying to figure out where I can set up shop.
- [140:43]
Ryan Rossillo
All right, anyway, fire up some emails. LifeAdvice, RR, gmail.com. i hope everybody had a great trucktober. I don't really know, you know, like, this is it. This is the first new show. We're excited about it. There's really not much else to say other than than that, I think. Right? Do we, I mean, do we give it a couple weeks and we start, like, doing what? Like talking about how things have been in the new place. We're kind of a drama, free show. So I don't, I don't really know what to do with it.
- [141:12]
Steve
The most drama that we've had on the show is Big Cat's fault. So, like, actually, that's not true.
- [141:17]
Ryan Rossillo
The.
- [141:17]
Steve
The Coors light thing might have been more drama, but I didn't really care about that. People behind people. The audience seem to care more about that.
- [141:23]
Kyle
That felt like. That felt like Wargon coded or something. You know, I. I would. I would have kept that one to myself. Myself.
- [141:29]
Ryan Rossillo
That sucks. We don't have word around with us because we have a marathon question.
- [141:34]
Kyle
Damn.
- [141:35]
Ryan Rossillo
Damn. All right, all right. Am I a bad boyfriend? Hi, team. Love the pod. Go. Pat's 25 years old, 5' 11, 180, play pickup hoops and soccer. Consider myself in decent shape, but not where I was in college, but like rr. I refuse to ever say or think I'm washed and still think I could get in really good shape if I committed to. To it. I could dissect that a little further if I wanted to, but I don't think I'm going to. I've been dating my girlfriend for three years. We live in a major northeast city and thinking about moving in together soon. Things are great. We've hit a crossroad and need the council's opinion. She floated out the idea of running a marathon next year together. Oh, my God.
- [142:15]
Kyle
Yeah.
- [142:16]
Ryan Rossillo
She has run two, and I've always been open to doing it, so I think it's a great idea. The problem is, she says if we do it, I have to run at her pace so we can do it all together. Together. What is wrong with them? This is not necessarily a bad thing. But my point was I am running in a marathon, which I might only do once in my life, and I want to run it as fast as possible, which would mean not crossing the finish line together, supporting each other on the run, et cetera. For context, she ran the last marathon in five hours. Five hours. I don't think that's. I actually don't think that that's. Well, go ahead. S. That. We don't know. We.
- [142:53]
Kyle
As a non ball knower, I think that might be a little long.
- [142:56]
Richard Jefferson
As a guy who feels high, as.
- [142:59]
Kyle
A guy who would be proud to complete one, I think that might. It sounds like a little. Maybe it's a little long.
- [143:08]
Ryan Rossillo
You know, my buddy Mark used to be like, hey, you have like, the Boston Marathon thing. People wear the jacket and they'd walk around or whatever and be like, how? I just be like, oh, I ran the marathon. Marathon. And they'd be like, oh, what was your time? And they'd say like a time. They'd be like, so you walked all day and now you're gonna wear the jacket? You know, and it was definitely a dick thing to do.
- [143:27]
Steve
The metal and the teeth thing. Yeah, yeah.
- [143:29]
Ryan Rossillo
I think it's about the training. Maybe throw the sticker on the car. I don't think. I mean, again, I just googled it. 5 hours is not considered slow for marathon as it is a solid and achievable goal for many run. It's go. Getting slow, soft. It's below average. It is below average, right?
- [143:48]
Kyle
It's a great way to get the emails back up after we took a.
- [143:51]
Ryan Rossillo
Couple of weeks off. Well, I, you know. But then again, should Google be saying, you can probably go faster than that. Put your laptop down. That's what I would like Google to say. But instead it's like, you know, hey, buddy, you're doing fine. All right? So really, the question has nothing to do with that. We just spent too much time on it. The question is, what do you do in this situation? Because he said, the question is, am I a jerk for wanting to run solo and trying to train, go as fast as I could? Should I run with her? Which would be a lot of fun in a different way, but I think I'd be left wondering what my time would have been. Appreciate the advice. We'll have to DM Worgon on the side to confirm. Yeah, I would do that first and.
- [144:30]
Steve
Then come get back over on Wargon. Mentions in the first show.
- [144:33]
Kirk Herbstreit
Jesus.
- [144:34]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah, Jesus hammered it. Not even available. Jerry Rogier is like, these guys just trust me. They got to figure it out.
- [144:43]
Steve
Yeah. Should have listened to them. I. I agree with our guy here. I. If I'm gonna run a marathon, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna, like, half ass a marathon.
- [144:53]
Kyle
Are you gonna talk? Are you guys gonna talk? That seems like it would be hard to run and talk.
- [144:57]
Ryan Rossillo
Right?
- [144:57]
Kyle
That would. I. I'm not a running expert. I mean, if.
- [144:59]
Richard Jefferson
But.
- [145:00]
Kyle
But it seems like that would be hard.
- [145:02]
Steve
That sounds miserable.
- [145:03]
Kyle
For five hours. Maybe that's why she's a five hour. Maybe she's talking to me time. I wonder.
- [145:09]
Ryan Rossillo
I just don't think it's so mad. I am mad for him. I am mad for him. It's like, hey, we want to run the marathon together. Okay, cool. But you have to run next to me the whole time. And you know, like, who knows? Is this guy full of shit? Is he gonna get out there and you realize, like, oh, wait, maybe I'm not gonna get 420. Not a weed joke. A realistic time for somebody doing it their first time time. So, yeah, I'm kind of mad on his behalf because I already know what kind of world he's entering. He's entering a world of conversation pain. Because if he says, hey, you know, I'll do it, but do you mind? Like. And then she's gonna be like, oh, what am I supposed to do? It's like, I don't know, run the marathon in the original form that you thought it was going to be without your buddy sidecarning it next to you for 5 plus hours while your slow ass is working it up 12 pitch grade.
- [145:59]
Steve
Yep. I've never understood run clubs. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest because like, if you got a dozen people, they Are they all supposed to be at the same pace? Like you're all supposed to just kind of. It seems odd.
- [146:11]
Ryan Rossillo
Singles.
- [146:11]
Kyle
I think you're supposed to, yeah. Try to bang each other after. I don't think it's about running.
- [146:15]
Ryan Rossillo
I think it's.
- [146:15]
Richard Jefferson
I think it's more about after.
- [146:17]
Steve
But you stick in a pack. They're always in packs. So it's like if somebody's really good, it's like, man, I have to like, you know, put the governor on to just to try to hook up with somebody later. That doesn't seem like fun.
- [146:28]
Ryan Rossillo
I don't know. You want me to go to a concert I don't want to go to, fine. You want me to go to a lunch spot that's all vegan, they don't have like any flour even. It's like a non flour tortillas. Yeah, we'll give it a shot. Just dump some sauce on this, you know, you want me to watch. You want me to watch Sex of the City reruns, season one through however long it went? Because there's a couple good lines in there. Like, yeah, I can give you those 28 minutes. But if you expect me as a physical specimen, as an athlete. Athlete to just. I gotta run next to you the whole time.
- [146:58]
Kyle
Speaking of this, I brought my wife to one o' clock football yesterday. She thought maybe because it's not 10am Whatever we went to went to Hurricane Shout out right off Main Street, Poughkeepsie, like two hours. And she was like, I had no idea it was this long. And like, you're not gonna talk to me. I was like, well, the Patriots are on. And Nick, I, you know, it's the Giants everywhere. So I had to get like a side tv and I'm just, I'm not looking at her the whole time. My two other buddies are here. And she was just like, all right, great. I'm never doing this again. So I was like, I bit the Bullet. That was my one marathon, and now I'm free Sundays at one o'.
- [147:31]
Ryan Rossillo
Clock.
- [147:31]
Kyle
You know, I think she just. She had, like, a new win because football's not at 10am Now. It's 1.
- [147:36]
Ryan Rossillo
And give us a shot.
- [147:37]
Kirk Herbstreit
Yeah, yeah.
- [147:38]
Ryan Rossillo
This is.
- [147:38]
Richard Jefferson
This is kind of the opposite of.
- [147:40]
Kyle
What is going on with our guy. But just because you were bringing up that whole thing, I felt like I wanted to share. I still enjoy that.
- [147:47]
Ryan Rossillo
Might be the move then. Just be super annoying. Yes. The whole time. Maybe it does fit. Yeah. Yeah. You want another gel? Another gel shooter, you know, hey, listen. Yeah, just potassium. Like, hey, let's split. Let's just thread the needle on these two guys in front of us, you know, like, tactically. All right, let's draft. All right. She's. She's the target. All right. Chase after this one. Like, hey, do you think we have enough in our 401k? And then she'll be like, just go right.
- [148:16]
Steve
It's mile seven. My God.
- [148:18]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah.
- [148:18]
Steve
Yeah.
- [148:19]
Kyle
All right. I think we might have gotten into something here.
- [148:21]
Ryan Rossillo
That's good. Are you doing Norwegian splits on your watch?
- [148:25]
Steve
All right. The only problem with that, though, is that you're doing that for five hours.
- [148:29]
Ryan Rossillo
That's unbelievable.
- [148:30]
Kyle
Not if you're good at it. You might only be doing it for 90 minutes.
- [148:32]
Steve
She's just like, go, go. Just go. You're good. Yeah. All right.
- [148:36]
Ryan Rossillo
Can you imagine running a marathon and running it faster than you were supposed to, and then because your girlfriend was slower, then you get to the finish line. This is incredibly challenging thing to do physically. And at the end of it, you're in a fight because you went too fast.
- [148:52]
Kyle
I know we want to move on, but it sounds like he didn't push back at all.
- [148:55]
Ryan Rossillo
Like, when she.
- [148:56]
Kyle
It sounded like she was like, a suggestion, like, but obviously you have to run at my pace. It seems like maybe that was his one time to, like, push back now that he's close. Now if you don't do it, then as the marathon creeps up, you can't try to change the game plan. I think you're a second.
- [149:09]
Ryan Rossillo
I think.
- [149:10]
Steve
No, I think you'd be like, hey, I've been thinking a lot about this good idea. I really want to. I want. I want to know what's best for myself. I want to know. I want to push myself.
- [149:18]
Richard Jefferson
Oh, my God.
- [149:19]
Steve
Yeah, I think I. I think the window's up. It could be a no, but I think the window is still there to potentially bring it up.
- [149:25]
Ryan Rossillo
So this means that my career is not taking off in five years. And she's like, you're just not pushing yourself hard enough. I can't point back to this and be like, well, somebody didn't want me to push myself all that hard five years ago, so maybe you planted the seed for me to just accept what it is. All right, different one here. Boss owes me some money. 59175. No impressive gym stats, but I did lose 20 pounds at the beginning of the year and have kept it off. No basketball comp. Was a grinder in my pickup years, but I'm a six handicap. Oof. Must be nice. Hey, guys. Writing this during the break, so hopefully y' all still see it. I've been working at a restaurant since graduating from grad school while looking for a full time job. My manager boss is really nice lady works six, seven days a week. Single mom and kid get bitchy, but a good boss overall. She has three kids, the middle of which is a soccer. A big soccer player in middle school. I walk into my shift the other day and she's complaining about how her babysitter flake last minute and no one can take her kid to practice. I volunteered, not realizing the practice was 90 minutes away. Dude, welcome.
- [150:23]
Kyle
Stupid son of a.
- [150:25]
Ryan Rossillo
So I'm on a southwest flight to Dallas for this soccer showcase jamboree. I said, whatever, it's better than a slow shift at the bar. So I took him to practice. It was overall very fun, actually. Crazy how much a 12 year old can change your perspective. The thing is, she said she'd venmo me asap. Not just for gas food, but also for doing it. I spent like 40 bucks on food for the kid and she hasn't even mentioned it over the last two shifts. Any advice here? I'm not necessarily broke, need the money since I've been with my parents for a few months, but was still expecting some change for my driver troubles. All right, the first thing you have. I'm so bad at this, man. Well, okay, but understand, you just admitted she is a single mom of three who you like and is running a business. She's at six, seven days a week, so she is trying to just stay above water every single day. So let's have some sympathy for her and her situation and what she's dealing with. Okay? And you said you liked her, right?
- [151:22]
Steve
Right.
- [151:23]
Ryan Rossillo
Shout out to the single moms. Marathon girlfriends. Not a high approval rating on the show. Single mom moms, we love them. All right, so little background if you're new. She forgot about the compensation the second you said you were going to take care of the kid. So she's not doing this to be malicious. She's simply doing it because this is so not important to her and the number of things that are important to her. So I would think there's probably going to be another opportunity at another time if you really care about the money that much. So we don't like to just sit there and say, hey, what is it, 50, 60 bucks, like suck it up or whatever, whatever. You met a 12 year old, like, who knows, who knows what kind of life lessons that I mean, well, you get to pay him in knowledge. What are you looking for in a receipt? You know? So I would say there's going to likely be another opportunity where she will be like, is there any way? And you're like, yeah, no problem. And then kind of like leave it or see if she says it again. And then she'll probably go like, oh my God, I never like unless she's a terrible boss. But you've not said that she 100% forget got because she is overwhelmed with stuff.
- [152:27]
Kyle
Yeah, I'm so bad at this. I've gotten, I have had to get better because of like greens fees with golf and stuff. And even then I've certainly took it. Taken the L a couple days before though.
- [152:37]
Steve
Dude, you just like.
- [152:38]
Kyle
No, I know, I know, I've like, yeah, I, I have done that too. I've just like sent a request. Nothing. There's no text like, hey man, just write down to business. But outside of that, that, I mean, I, I, I probably left a ton of money on the table just because like just the entry into that just feels gross to me. And that's probably just me a me thing. But just the entry into it and then you got the whole boss thing. You're like, is this going to screw something up for me in the future by like weirdly bringing this up when I could just lose the money and maybe get it back another way by not being a weirdo. But the truth is if somebody said they'll pay you something, it's okay to ask, ask. It's just, I just suck at this. So I don't really have a good, I got nothing for you, man.
- [153:17]
Steve
I'm with you. Any situation.
- [153:18]
Kyle
Whatever they say to do, I say do.
- [153:20]
Steve
I'll just eat the loss and just, you know, this is a chalk it up to the game situation. But I, but I, but I will.
- [153:27]
Richard Jefferson
Say I think it's as easy as.
- [153:29]
Steve
Just making a joke. Be like, hey, I'm thinking about Making this my full time side hustle. If you want to keep paying me, you got any, you know, you got any extra dates coming up? You know, and just like make it a joke. And then, you know, and then maybe she says, oh yeah, like, by the way, what do I owe you?
- [153:41]
Ryan Rossillo
Kind of thing.
- [153:41]
Steve
And then you're, you go, it's off like that. So I think you bring it up, but in like a light heart, funny way. Don't just say, hey, what's 50 bucks?
- [153:46]
Kyle
What's the word for that? I don't know that I've thought about that too in certain things and be like, don't. I'm not doing that. If there's like a word, it's not disingenuous isn't the word exception. That's what I was going to say.
- [153:56]
Ryan Rossillo
I don't think.
- [153:57]
Kyle
No, but I'm always afraid someone sees through it and they're like, look at you, you're such, you're such a little, you know, such a wimp that you tried to do this through a joke. There's a word for it, but I don't know.
- [154:06]
Steve
Yes, but I don't know.
- [154:08]
Ryan Rossillo
I, I'm.
- [154:09]
Steve
That's the most comfortable way that I would do it.
- [154:13]
Kyle
This dog has been breaking down. This dog is just like, I. I gotta find a place to exist.
- [154:18]
Steve
We need a rabbit update. Speaking of animals.
- [154:20]
Kyle
Oh my God, dude, they're in the garage. They're out of sight.
- [154:23]
Ryan Rossillo
None dead. None are dead in the garage.
- [154:26]
Kyle
Don't worry about it, man.
- [154:27]
Ryan Rossillo
It's fine.
- [154:28]
Kyle
We all agreed that it's not.
- [154:29]
Ryan Rossillo
Sounds like this has been disgusting. Disgusting.
- [154:33]
Kyle
Dude, I'm sleeping like a princess. It's incredible.
- [154:35]
Ryan Rossillo
Incredible.
- [154:36]
Kyle
It's incredible.
- [154:37]
Steve
Air has never been cleaner.
- [154:38]
Kyle
Yeah, dude, it's really, it's really unbelievable.
- [154:41]
Ryan Rossillo
Is it weird to not smell rabbit every moment? So weird.
- [154:45]
Richard Jefferson
So weird.
- [154:46]
Kyle
Well, no, in my apartment was fine. It was just in the, you know, it was in the bedroom and I was like, how could this be?
- [154:51]
Ryan Rossillo
How.
- [154:51]
Kyle
What, what option do we have? But I had an office.
- [154:55]
Richard Jefferson
Who does this?
- [154:57]
Kyle
Yeah, maybe save the marriage. Getting out, Getting back to the old crown jewel. So I'm, I'm on cloud nine. Lately it's been while a.
- [155:03]
Ryan Rossillo
Awesome. We have a lot of emails saying, hey, where do we get the show? Can't find it. Well, you couldn't find it because today was the first episode. So I think with the YouTube drops ahead of time, it confused some of you out there on where it is. But this podcast, its first episode today is available wherever you get Your podcast, Apple Spotify, and Of course, the YouTube stuff that will do primarily the one extra thing away week that will be video only and not audio. So I think we've had a pretty long episode today.
- [155:40]
Steve
We're approaching three hours right now.
- [155:41]
Kyle
I think everyone. Everyone has peed at least once before. This is before this episode.
- [155:46]
Steve
Yeah, we got finished recording. Jake. Jake, who's putting our video today is just like, I gotta take a piss. Let me know if I miss anything. Like, you're good, man.
- [155:52]
Kyle
I think we've all peed one time.
- [155:54]
Richard Jefferson
Yeah.
- [155:55]
Ryan Rossillo
No, so normally not this long. We wanted to come out with just a really good start. So thanks to everybody. Please subscribe. Tell everyone else to subscribe so you can make sure you can find us because we're starting all over again. So I'll thanks to Rudy. I'll thank Kyle. Who else do I need to thank? Do we do that here? Do we think.
- [156:14]
Steve
Yeah, we'll thank Jake Bass, Kevin, who's our social guy, Tom, who's. Who's going to be one of our video guys. But is. Is off the first week of the show, so good for him. But no, it's been great.
- [156:22]
Ryan Rossillo
Off the first week, huh?
- [156:24]
Steve
Yeah, but he was super. Listen, this isn't. He was super. He was incredible. The first two weeks of, like, getting this thing, he was off.
- [156:29]
Ryan Rossillo
Awesome.
- [156:30]
Steve
Tom's the man.
- [156:31]
Ryan Rossillo
Yeah. Yeah, I know, but that's just like. There's going to be a lot of people. I hope these guys know they're in the crosshairs now because of war going on. Not because of me, just because of the audience. But look, once again, just to thank everybody that's ever hung out and listened to the show and watching any of that stuff, just hoping to build it back up again and get back to where we were. So again, please subscribe. The Ryan Rossillo show, part of the Barstool Network. You.