The SaaS Podcast - Episode 423: Jobs-to-be-Done: Customer Interviews That Drive Growth with Bob Mester
Release Date: December 12, 2024
Host: Omar Khan
Guest: Bob Mester, Founder and CEO of the Rewired Group, Co-Creator of the Jobs To Be Done Framework
Introduction
In this insightful episode of The SaaS Podcast, host Omar Khan welcomes Bob Mester, a seasoned entrepreneur with over 40 years of experience in product development. Bob shares his journey from overcoming dyslexia to co-creating the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, which has been instrumental in helping thousands of companies, including Basecamp, Facebook Marketplace, and Casper, achieve significant growth.
[03:31] Bob Mester: "I've been building products for over 40 years, working on over 3,500 different products and launching eight startups."
Understanding the Jobs To Be Done Framework
Bob delves into the essence of the JTBD framework, emphasizing that customers don't merely buy products; they "hire" them to accomplish specific jobs in their lives. This perspective shifts the focus from product features to the underlying motivations and struggles of customers.
[05:23] Bob Mester: "It's more about what they're trying to do or what they can't do today but want to do tomorrow."
Bob explains how his personal challenges with dyslexia led him to seek deeper insights beyond traditional market research. He discovered that customers often misinterpret or even lie to themselves about their true reasons for purchasing products. This realization drove him to adopt interrogation techniques to uncover genuine customer motivations.
Conducting Effective Customer Interviews
A significant portion of the discussion centers on mastering customer interviews to reveal the true drivers behind purchasing decisions. Bob advises focusing on past behaviors rather than future intentions to predict customer actions accurately.
[19:20] Bob Mester: "I never talk to people who want my product ever. Instead, I talk to those who have bought it to understand what caused them to say, 'Today's the day I needed a new solution.'"
Key Strategies:
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Interviewing the Right People: Engage with customers who have already purchased your product or a competitor's product to understand their journey.
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Depth Over Breadth: Conducting 10-12 in-depth interviews can uncover 80-90% of the market insights, making broader surveys less effective.
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Uncovering Struggling Moments: Identify the specific moments or challenges that push customers to seek a new solution.
[08:09] Bob Mester: "You end up building a product that tries to do everything for everybody, and it ends up doing nothing for nobody."
Product Features vs. Customer Jobs
Bob illustrates the common pitfall of focusing too much on product features rather than the jobs customers aim to accomplish. Using the Basecamp example, he demonstrates how a requested calendar feature was misinterpreted until the team understood that customers wanted to see available time slots, not a full-fledged calendar.
[12:58] Bob Mester: "Customers don't know what features they really need. They need to focus on what they want to achieve, not the features themselves."
Takeaway: Prioritize understanding the customer's desired outcomes over adding features, ensuring that each addition directly contributes to solving a specific customer job.
Interviewing Techniques and Patterns
Bob shares his approach to structuring interviews, emphasizing the importance of digging deep beyond superficial responses. By exploring the "who, when, where, and why," he uncovers the underlying forces driving customer decisions.
[14:16] Bob Mester: "People don't buy products; they hire them to make progress in specific moments."
Identifying Patterns:
Through a series of interviews, Bob identifies recurring patterns—typically three to five distinct reasons why customers choose a product. This consolidation helps avoid overcomplicating the product by catering to too many diverse needs.
[25:52] Bob Mester: "Once you have ten interviews, you start to see the patterns that cover 90% of the market."
Applications to Marketing and Sales
The insights from JTBD extend beyond product development, significantly impacting marketing and sales strategies. Bob discusses how understanding the customer's buying journey allows companies to tailor their messaging and sales processes effectively.
[42:29] Bob Mester: "There are no sales professors in business schools because they don't teach how people buy."
Demand Side Sales:
Bob introduces the concept of aligning the sales process with the customer's buying journey rather than forcing the customer into a predetermined sales funnel.
[46:14] Bob Mester: "Sales, marketing, and customer success should be part of one cohesive team, not three separate entities struggling with handoffs."
Actionable Takeaways for Founders
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Start with the Past: Interview recent customers to understand the events and struggles that led them to your product.
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Focus on Outcomes: Ask customers what they hoped to achieve, not just what features they wanted.
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Limit Your Interviews: Aim for 10-12 in-depth interviews to uncover the majority of valuable insights.
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Understand the Full Solution: Consider all aspects of the customer’s journey, including anxieties and habits they need to abandon.
[48:55] Bob Mester: "If your product doesn't exist yet, imagine what people will stop using once your product is successful."
Expanding JTBD to Career Development
Bob shares his latest work, applying the JTBD framework to career transitions. By understanding the "jobs" people are trying to complete in their professional lives, companies can better address employee needs and reduce turnover.
[52:11] Bob Mester: "It's the meta part—how people manage their careers is very much aligned with JTBD principles."
Conclusion
Bob Mester's expertise in the Jobs To Be Done framework provides SaaS founders with a powerful tool to deeply understand and address their customers' true needs. By focusing on the underlying jobs rather than just features, businesses can create more targeted, effective products and strategies that drive growth and customer satisfaction.
[54:10] Bob Mester: "If you understand what pushes people to buy and what holds them back, you can create loyalty by helping them make progress."
About Bob Mester:
Bob Mester is the Founder and CEO of the Rewired Group and co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done framework alongside Clayton Christensen. With four decades of experience, Bob has guided over 3,500 companies in bringing their ideas to market and has launched eight startups. His contributions extend to authoring several books, including Learning to Build, Demand Side Sales, and Jobs to be Done Handbook.
Connect with Bob Mester:
- Website: therewiredgroup.com
- LinkedIn: Bob Mester
Recommended Reading:
- Learning to Build
- Demand Side Sales
- Jobs to be Done Handbook
This summary was crafted based on the transcript provided and structured to highlight the key discussions and insights from Episode 423 of The SaaS Podcast. For the full conversation, please listen to the episode on your preferred podcast platform.