428: Teqtivity: From Failed Hardware Pivot to 7-Figure SaaS Success - with Hiren Hasmukh

Summary

Episode 428: Techtivity – From Failed Hardware Pivot to 7-Figure SaaS Success

Podcast: The SaaS Podcast - SaaS, Startups, Growth Hacking & Entrepreneurship
Host: Omer Khan
Guest: Hiren Hasmukh, Founder and CEO of Techtivity
Release Date: January 30, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this enlightening episode of The SaaS Podcast, host Omar Khan interviews Hiren Hasmukh, the resilient founder and CEO of Techtivity. Hiren shares his journey from a hardware startup pivoting into a successful SaaS company, offering valuable insights into entrepreneurship, growth strategies, and overcoming significant challenges.

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2. The Genesis: From Hardware to Software

Hiren began his entrepreneurial journey in 2018 with TechCube, a hardware company focused on building smart lockers for engineering departments to loan out test devices efficiently. He invested $400,000 of his personal savings into this venture, personally assembling lockers with his wife while developing the accompanying backend software.

Quote:
"We're a bootstrap company, so together we were putting these lockers together. It was a lot of work, but we learned a lot from doing it."
— Hiren Hasmukh [07:37]

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3. The Pivot: Navigating Through Crisis

When the COVID-19 pandemic struck, the demand for hardware solutions plummeted as companies halted hardware purchases. Faced with dwindling prospects, Hiren made the strategic decision to pivot from hardware to software, leveraging the backend system they had already developed.

Quote:
"It definitely wasn't easy. I still think about it, how much we were spending... But talking to prospects and getting good feedback helped us move forward."
— Hiren Hasmukh [09:10]

This pivot took six months with a team of just two developers. Their first customer was secured through a successful RFP bid, validating the new direction and laying the foundation for future growth.

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4. Building the Software: Crafting a Standalone Product

Transitioning to a SaaS model, Hiren and his team focused on enhancing their backend software to function independently of the hardware lockers. This move not only reduced operational costs but also opened avenues for scalability in the competitive IT asset management space.

Quote:
"We know that customizing for each customer is key, so we maintain separate code bases which has been our secret weapon against bigger competitors."
— Hiren Hasmukh [Timestamp Not Provided]

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5. Gaining Traction: The First Customers and Growth

Techtivity's growth was fueled by strategic sales efforts and building trust with early adopters. The company focused on delivering exceptional customer support and product quality, enabling them to secure and retain enterprise clients despite competing with well-funded players.

Quote:
"We have a great product and excellent support. Connecting prospects with current customers through meetings has been instrumental in closing deals."
— Hiren Hasmukh [14:51]

Today, Techtivity boasts seven figures in ARR, a dedicated team of 22 employees, and remains entirely bootstrapped.

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6. Competing in a Saturated Market

Entering a market dominated by larger, well-funded companies posed significant challenges. Techtivity differentiated itself by building trust through personalized support and by allowing customers to have bespoke versions of their platform tailored to specific needs.

Quote:
"We're not just a SaaS provider; we genuinely want to help our customers, which builds strong relationships and trust."
— Hiren Hasmukh [15:20]

This approach, though resource-intensive, allowed Techtivity to carve out a niche and compete effectively despite limited financial resources.

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7. Marketing Strategies: Smart Budgeting and Targeting

With a modest $2,500/month budget allocated to Google Ads and LinkedIn, Hiren emphasized targeting long-tail keywords to maximize ROI. This tactic allowed Techtivity to attract relevant leads without the exorbitant costs associated with high-competition keywords.

Quote:
"By targeting long-tail keywords related to questions like 'What is IT asset management,' we reduced our cost per click and increased brand awareness."
— Hiren Hasmukh [24:53]

Additionally, word-of-mouth referrals played a crucial role, driven by satisfied customers advocating for Techtivity within their networks.

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8. Overcoming Challenges: The Data Breach Incident

One of the most daunting challenges Techtivity faced was a data breach affecting a key customer. Instead of succumbing to panic, Hiren opted for transparency, swiftly notifying all customers and enhancing security measures to prevent future incidents.

Quote:
"We focused on being transparent and worked closely with the affected customer to rebuild trust by enhancing our security protocols."
— Hiren Hasmukh [41:36]

Their proactive response not only retained the compromised customer but also strengthened overall security, earning greater trust from other clients.

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9. Staying Bootstrapped: Independence Over External Funding

Despite opportunities to raise venture capital, Hiren chose to keep Techtivity bootstrapped. This decision stemmed from a desire to maintain agility and avoid the pressures of external investors, allowing the team to prioritize customer needs without external constraints.

Quote:
"Being bootstrapped gives us the flexibility and agility to do whatever we want without having to answer to investors."
— Hiren Hasmukh [44:03]

Hiren remains open to investment but prefers to grow organically until Techtivity reaches a more mature stage.

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10. Lessons Learned and Key Takeaways

Throughout the conversation, several key lessons emerged:

• Adaptability is Crucial: Pivoting from hardware to software was essential for Techtivity's survival and growth.

• Customer-Centric Approach: Exceptional support and personalized solutions foster strong client relationships and trust.

• Smart Marketing: Focusing on cost-effective, targeted marketing strategies can yield significant results even with limited budgets.

• Transparency Builds Trust: Openly addressing challenges, such as security breaches, reinforces credibility and customer loyalty.

• Bootstrapping Advantages: Maintaining independence allows for greater flexibility and customer-focused development.

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11. Lightning Round Highlights

In the concluding segment, Hiren shared personal insights and favorite practices:

• Best Business Advice: "Stay focused and patient. Success doesn't come overnight, but be prepared to pivot if needed."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [46:22]

• Recommended Book: "Zero to Sold" by Arvid Kahl, which validated his strategies in building and scaling Techtivity.

• Successful Founder Attribute: Passion for the work and waking up excited about the company's direction and challenges.

• Personal Productivity Tool: An old-school notepad filled daily with tasks.

• Crazy Business Idea: Helping children in smaller villages in India with education.

• Fun Fact: Hiren is an avid runner, currently planning his 2025 marathon schedule.

• Passion Outside Work: Volunteering for the Huntington's Disease Society of America, inspired by his brother’s battle with the disease.

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Conclusion

Hiren Hasmukh's journey with Techtivity is a testament to resilience, strategic pivoting, and the power of a customer-centric approach. From a hardware startup to a thriving SaaS company, Hiren exemplifies how adaptability and unwavering commitment can lead to substantial success, even in fiercely competitive markets.

For more information about Techtivity, visit techtivity.com.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "We're a bootstrap company, so together we were putting these lockers together. It was a lot of work, but we learned a lot from doing it."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [07:37]

• "It definitely wasn't easy. I still think about it, how much we were spending... But talking to prospects and getting good feedback helped us move forward."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [09:10]

• "We have a great product and excellent support. Connecting prospects with current customers through meetings has been instrumental in closing deals."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [14:51]

• "We're not just a SaaS provider; we genuinely want to help our customers, which builds strong relationships and trust."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [15:20]

• "By targeting long-tail keywords related to questions like 'What is IT asset management,' we reduced our cost per click and increased brand awareness."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [24:53]

• "We focused on being transparent and worked closely with the affected customer to rebuild trust by enhancing our security protocols."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [41:36]

• "Being bootstrapped gives us the flexibility and agility to do whatever we want without having to answer to investors."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [44:03]

• "Stay focused and patient. Success doesn't come overnight, but be prepared to pivot if needed."
  — Hiren Hasmukh [46:22]

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from Episode 428 of The SaaS Podcast, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a thorough understanding of Hiren Hasmukh's entrepreneurial journey with Techtivity.

Transcript

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Foreign.

[Omar Khan]

Welcome to another episode of the SaaS podcast. I'm your host Omar Khan and this is a show where I interview proven founders and industry experts who share their stories, strategies and insights to help you build, launch and grow your SaaS business. In this episode, I took to Hiren Hasmukh, the founder and CEO of Techtivity, an IT asset management solution that helps companies manage their laptops, tablets, phones and other technology assets. In 2018, Hiran launched a hardware company called TechCube, where he invested $400,000 of his own money to build smart lockers that would help engineering departments loan out test devices for two years. He and his wife personally assembled these lockers, bootstrapping the business while developing the back end software they needed to manage the devices. When the pandemic hit, companies stopped buying hardware solutions. Rather than give up, Hiran made the difficult decision to pivot and focus on the back end software he'd built, which he believed could become a standalone product. The Pivot took six months with just two developers, but they quickly landed their first customer through an RFP bid, which helped them validate their new direction. But competing as a bootstrap company against well funded players in the IT asset management space wasn't easy, which meant they had to work harder to build trust and prove themselves worthy of enterprise customers. Then came one of their biggest challenges yet, a data breach that affected one of their customers and put their entire business at risk. Instead of making excuses, Hiran focused on being transparent with customers and strengthening their security. And the approach worked. They managed to keep that customer and continued growing. Today, Techtivity generates seven figures in ARR with a team of 22 people and remains bootstrapped. In this episode you'll learn how Hiran made the tough call to Pivot away from hardware despite investing $400,000 of his personal savings. Why? Maintaining separate code bases for different customers became their secret weapon against bigger competitors. How they compete against well funded competitors by being creative with their marketing budget and Google Ad spends. What specific strategies help them rebuild trust and and keep customers after experiencing that serious data breach. And why Hiran chose to stay bootstrapped even when he had opportunities to raise venture capital. So I hope you enjoy. I talk to a lot of founders who have the same challenge. They've got an amazing product idea but need a technical team to build or scale it. If you're looking to develop a B2B SaaS product but don't want to hire and manage an in house team, listen up. Gearhart is a product development studio that handles the entire technical side of building your software. They've built over 70 successful products, including SmartSuite, whose founder trusted Gearhart after his $200 million exit to help build his next big venture. Some of Gearhart's customers have gone through YC and their portfolio companies have won over 10 startup competitions. Until the end of March, they're offering our listeners free strategy sessions with their leadership team. Just visit Gearheart IO to book your session. That's Gearheart Hiren. Welcome to the show.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Hey, Omer, thanks for having me.

[Omar Khan]

My pleasure. Do you have a favorite quote, something that inspires or motivates you that you can share with us?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, for sure. The quote that comes to mind is mind over matter. It's something that my brother used to say a lot and might not be business related, but something that's always stuck with me when going through the ups and downs of whether it's business or life. So, yeah, love it.

[Omar Khan]

So tell us about Techtivity. What does the product do? Who's IT for, and what's the main problem you're hoping to solve?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, Techtivity is an IT asset management solution primarily focused on helping IT departments manage all of their assets. Your laptops, tablets, phones, et cetera that are either in storage, they're given out to employees or installed within various rooms around the company. So with IT being our primary user of the product, what we're also focused on is helping companies not be silos and actually work together as a full organization. So we have features and benefits for other departments such as hr, security, procurement, finance, et cetera, so they can all work together, save the company money, be compliant, be secure, and just work together cohesively.

[Omar Khan]

Cool. And give us a sense of the size of the business. Where are you in terms of revenue, customers, size of team?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, in terms of revenue, we're in the low seven figure range. In AR, we're a small team. We have around 22 members, most of them being in the product and technology department. And then a mighty team. Small but mighty growth team.

[Omar Khan]

Good. So the business was founded in 2018. Why don't we go back to around that time in terms of what were you doing at the time? Where did the idea come from? Sort of before you launched the business?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

The idea actually started out as a hardware company. We developed a product called the TechCube, which is a smart locker solution. We saw a need for mainly engineering departments where an engineer needed a phone to loan out to do some software testing and then they just drop it back off. The issue that we saw was engineers would go to help desk. They'll probably wait, put in a ticket, and they have to wait until somebody can help them and give them that device. The locker would make it easy for them to go to the locker, enter in their email address, select which phone they wanted, and take it out and go and complete their project. So we started out as the hardware company TechCube and as we were building the actual tool, there was a backend part of it where IT management could see who's taking what devices out, when they're taking it out, and what they need to return. So slowly over time we saw a need for additional features, reports, integrations for the back end portion of it. And as we were growing the company, we realized that the hardware portion, it was getting very expensive to manage. The cost of R and D manufacturing, marketing was expensive. Then Covid hit companies just didn't want to look into a locker solution at that point. So we kind of pivoted into just focusing more on the software side. As we saw, there's also a need for a more affordable and agile system in the space. So we pivoted into more of a software company and have been focusing on that ever since.

[Omar Khan]

Did you have a background in hardware before you decided to build that first business?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

I did not. Had a friend of mine that came in, helped us out, kind of gave us some advice on what to do, put us in touch with some manufacturers locally, and we were literally building these lockers by ourselves. My wife helped me out a lot. We're a bootstrap company, so together we were putting these lockers together. It was a lot of work, but we learned a lot from doing it.

[Omar Khan]

And how long did you work on that hardware product before you eventually decided to pivot?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

It was around two years.

[Omar Khan]

And do you recall how much money you put into that business?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Oh, into TechCube when we're starting that one? Around 400,000 of your own money? Yes.

[Omar Khan]

And so you launched this hardware business without a background in hardware, and I know it's a hard thing to do. Sorry the pun. Right. But it's a hard thing to do anyway. And you're bootstrapping, you're investing your own money into this thing, and then about two years later you decide we need to pivot. And you said you shifted to kind of the software focused business, but I think that's an incredibly difficult thing for any founder to do. You might know deep down that you need to pivot, but this other voice in your head is saying maybe you can keep going Maybe that big breakthrough is just around the corner. Maybe that big deal is just, you know, going to close tomorrow. And I've invested so much of my own personal money, my savings into this and. And I'm basically end up throwing a lot of that away if I have to pivot and in many ways restart. So can just share a little bit about what was going through your mind, because I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make to pivot.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, it definitely wasn't easy. I mean, I still think about it, you know, what we were doing back then, how much we were spending on the R and D and the marketing and doing events. The number is still here in the back of my mind. But as we started growing the software, we started talking to more people, even some of our prospects. It helped with that loss in terms of the financial loss that we had and the time and the effort that we put into it by getting the good feedback of what we were building and our vision of the software from prospects and people in the industry. So that did definitely help. We still have the Locker as one of our products. We still market it a little bit. We're actually coming out with a V3 this month, so there is some movement around it. The focus has definitely been on that software. And yeah, it was a tough pivot for us, but it was necessary and something we had to do after really thinking about it and seeing what we could do with the software, having that software background versus doing the hardware side of things.

[Omar Khan]

So how did you figure out what that pivot was going to be like? You talked about the, okay, we want to move to kind of a software business, a SaaS business, but having kind of gone through these two years, invested all of this money, and how did you get a certain level of confidence that what you were going to pivot to was going to be the right move? Like, did you go out and talk to more customers? Did you try and pre sell the product? What did you do to get more confidence in this pivot?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, for sure. So as part of the locker, we had the backend portal that had the management capabilities. So I had the base of like an IT asset management solution. So naturally, just talking to prospects, talking to some other IT directors, heads of IT procurement supply chain, just showing them a brief overview of the portal and what we had that could manage the locker, that gave us the confidence to say, okay, let's take the software and run with it and just make that pivot and make it work. Right. And as we started adding more features and integrations to IT that really helped us grow the, grow the product and then show some customers and get some RFP bids out there and kind of get that confidence going in terms of growing it.

[Omar Khan]

Okay, and how long did it take to build the software? Like you said, was it like, okay, we've kind of already got the bones of IT and it's not gonna take too long to kind of repackage this as a standalone product. And beyond that, how long did it take to land that first customer?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, it took, I would say once we had the base software that was connected to the Locker, turning that into the IT asset management platform, it was around six months and two developers that were working full time at that moment.

[Omar Khan]

And then the first customer, how long did it take to learn them?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Right after the six months we had our first customer.

[Omar Khan]

So how did that happen? Were you basically like selling while you were building the product?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

We were selling. So that customer, actually we had met at a conference. They knew we were working on the Locker and we did a demo at their previous company that they were working at, did a demo at the Locker. When they shifted to their new position, they had an RFP out for an ITS imaging solution and luckily we ended up winning the bid on that and have been a customer of ours ever since.

[Omar Khan]

Okay, now I'm guessing that you were the only IT asset management solution out there in the market, right? Like, I don't know this area deeply, but I do know that it's pretty competitive. There are some big, well funded players in this space. So figuring out what you're going to go and build is, is one thing. The second thing is figuring out where you position yourself in the market and why customers should choose you instead of all these other options that they have. How did you figure that out? Like where best to position yourselves and how you could have a kind of a clear story on how you were going to be differentiated or better or different than what was already out there.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, we definitely had to build a lot of trust with our prospects and our customers. There's a lot of big players in the IT asset management industry, a lot of them being heavily funded. And then you have a new player in the game that's like us, who's bootstrapped, we're new. It's hard for larger organizations to just move forward with a new SaaS provider. So we took a slow approach in terms of building the company and building that trust by making sure we have good support, we have an excellent product, when our prospects reach out to us. If they're feeling a little uneasy. We'll actually connect them with a current customer and they can get a review of us outside of communicating with us. And that's helped a lot in terms of closing some deals where we'll just get our prospects and customers together in a room or in a meeting.

[Omar Khan]

So I think it's great being able to get a customer onto the phone with a prospect and do the selling for you. Why would they do that? Like, what's in it for them? How did you kind of figure this out? It's hard enough to go to a customer for many companies and get a testimonial. Right. But then to say, oh, can you get on the phone with the prospect and basically sell the product for me? That's kind of quite a. Quite an ask.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah. I mean, to be honest, we really take pride in our customer support and our development processes. So with our system, it's an agile tool to where every customer gets their own version of techtivity and we build onto it for them and their processes. So with that part of our business, we've built a lot of trust with our current customers and we have relationships with them where we'll message each other on Slack. And part of that is we want to help our customers. We're not just a SaaS provider, we're not just a solution. We really want to help our customers. And that relationship and that trust we've built with them has helped us get to a point where we can call them and ask them for these meetings with prospects and they're happy to do it.

[Omar Khan]

I know one of the other things that really helped you get that initial momentum was going out there and targeting early adopters and companies who were more willing to take risks, try new things, innovate, that sort of stuff. And in many ways, for many early stage startups, that's a smart thing to do. The challenge always is figuring out who those early adopters are, how to reach them. So how did you go about figuring that out and who these people were and how to reach them?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, with a lot of people, they actually came to us. We have a lot of referrals, a lot of word of mouth. And then people who are leaving their position, they move to another company, they actually contact us and basically follow tech tivity and implement it into their current solution or their current company. And what we're seeing a lot is there's a lot of people who leave the larger organizations and they're going into smaller startups that are, you know, our earlier adopters Companies that are growing very quickly, that need a tool in place, you know, quickly and efficiently. So that's how we're really able to get some of those smaller companies on board as well.

[Omar Khan]

So do you think it's. I mean, your customers obviously love the product, otherwise, you know, they wouldn't be selling it for you and wanting to move on somewhere else and kind of recommending it their new companies and so on. What do you think it is about the product that you've. Well, is it the product or is it the support? Because you said, oh, you know, support is kind of a big priority for us. So is it like, hey, the product. We've really, you know, we, we kind of really figured out how to build the right thing or solve the right problems in the right way, or it's like we really kind of, you know, over optimize for support and make sure that we're, we're helping them do a great job. Like, what is it that makes, you know, the customers that love your product, what. What is it that that gets them to that point?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

I feel it's a balance of both. We have a great product. I'm going to be biased here, but I think we have one of the best products out there. And to get to where we are, we had to provide that customer support to build that trust. So we really tried to find a balance in both. Our engineering team has done a really great job in terms of building our product, the integrations, the workflows, everything that IT departments in various organizations, sizes, industries need. And then our support team, our growth team, they do a fantastic job in working with our customers and our prospects, making sure that they're happy. I think we found a really good balance between the two.

[Omar Khan]

You mentioned something earlier about how you customize the product for each customer. Talk a little bit more about that because on the one hand, yeah, customization is great. On the other hand, it sounds like a nightmare. So I'm just trying to figure out how you deliver that in a way that you can still continue to grow and scale.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah. So we have our base product of techtivity, which has all of the basic functions and functionalities that you need to manage your IT assets. And then what we noticed as we were growing is that every IT department works. They work differently. They have their own processes, their managers have their own philosophies on how they should do things, what they should do. And then when you throw in other departments like hr, Security, Compliance, they also have their own ideas. So instead of a one size fits all type of product. The vision that I had was let's have this one based product that has a great set of features and then allow our customer to give us feedback on how they work on a day to day basis, what type of reporting that they need for management teams, operation teams, procurement teams, et cetera. And we'll kind of build that in. And then as organizations grow, for example, if you're working with a startup that you know all of a sudden gets funding, they add a couple of thousand new employees, you know, they're going to have new tools, they're going to have new workflows, new managers. We want to also adapt our software to fit their growing needs as well. So instead of now, here's the software, take it and you know, you're stuck with the features that we give you. The idea was to allow them to request new features, new integrations, and that's really helped with the growth of the company because they love that. And we're very quick at what we build and we have a quick turnaround time in terms of requests and features that our customers need.

[Omar Khan]

Right, but when you build these features, are you building them for all customers or are you building this kind of multi tenant, kind of Frankenstein?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, it's kind of bespoke for our customers. Some of our larger enterprise level customers have very specific needs in terms of security features that we want. Another, smaller customer probably would not need that feature or workflow. And that's why that was one of the reasons of having a system that's completely separate for every single customer. That way we have customer A over here. We can build a completely different version of tactivity and customer B can have their own workflows and processes. There are integrations and workflows that will launch to everybody, but most of the time, when it's something that's a very specific request, it'll only be for that one customer.

[Omar Khan]

Hey, have you heard of SmartSuite? They were just named 2024 SaaS Startup of the Year by Startup Grind. Well, I recently discovered that Gearhart was the development team behind their success. Gearheart is a product development studio that specializes in scaling B2B SaaS. Companies built by serial entrepreneurs. They understand the unique challenges of startups and can plug into your team to accelerate growth. With offices in San Francisco and London, plus a distributed team of 43 experts, they've helped build over 70 successful products. To learn more about how Gearhart can help scale your development, check them [e-mail] that's gearheart IO. So are you managing like multiple code bases for different customers?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah.

[Omar Khan]

Wow. And how big is your dev team?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Our dev team right now is 16 people.

[Omar Khan]

Wow. So how do you think that's going to play out as you start to move towards an eight figure business? A lot more customers, a lot more requirements like is this manageable, is this scalable?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, we've actually, we're talking internally about being able to modularize the tool to where we can still have the base product and then have plugins that we can add in to make things a lot quicker and easier when we're building new features. So there are plans on our roadmap for this year to help with that.

[Omar Khan]

Let's talk a little bit about growth. Right. So you talked about how you got the first customer you met at an event. What about the first 10? Where did they come from? I know you mentioned word of mouth referrals as a big driver and it still is today, but in those early days you didn't have any customers, so how were you finding them? How did you get the first 10?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, so like I mentioned, word of mouth referrals was and still is a heavy driver of traffic to us. And on the other side we did use or we still do Google AdWords to drive traffic to our website to generate leads and prospects. And what we ended up doing was focusing on some of the lower level keywords, the ones that don't cost as much versus, you know, the IT asset management keyword is like $60 to $70 per click, which as a bootstrap company is not affordable for us. But we found, you know, all of the long tail keywords, the low volume ones where people are still searching for them and our competitors are actually not going after those keywords. So we found a niche in Google AdWords to where we can still get some, drive some traffic, not spend too much money and bring in some leads.

[Omar Khan]

Give me an example of that. Without giving away too much of what you're targeting and stuff like that, but just give me an example of a long tail keyword that a customer might be searching for and come across your ad.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, it might be more related to a question they're asking, right? What is IT asset management or the benefits of IT asset management, things like that versus just that specific IT asset management keyword.

[Omar Khan]

So I'm guessing when you go after those long tail keywords, the cost per click is a lot less than going after words like IT Asset Management. 60, $80 a click is kind of crazy, but probably you're also going to get A lot of clicks for people where there's no buying intent perhaps maybe at that point. Right. So how are you dealing with that? Do you get a lot of people kind of just, they just want to know what it asset management is, but they're not actually looking for a solution or ready to buy yet. And typically like in this space, how long does it take for someone to kind of get to a point where they're looking to the point where they make a decision and buy a product?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah. So for the folks that they're, they're not the buyer at the moment, we run our typical retargeting campaigns to make sure that our brand is still in their eyes to help with our brand awareness. And then for the ones that do end up contacting us, it's usually a couple of months sales process to get them from filling out the form to actually implementing.

[Omar Khan]

Yeah. So I'm still trying to figure out like, like how do you manage that, that situation with Google AdWords, because those type of long tail keywords, if there's not buying intent, you could, it feels like you could just be wasting a lot of money on just clicks that aren't ever going to go anywhere. Right?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, yeah, we, you could say that. But at the end of the day, what we gain from that is a visitor to our website and then they're retargeting at that point. Right. So part of what we want to do is increase our brand awareness. We're competing against these big companies that have heavy funding. If we talk about it asset management in Silicon Valley, for example, there'll be two or three names that everybody knows about. So for somebody to type in, what is it asset management for us, that means, okay, it is somebody who's in that field, they're looking at least for that topic. Even if they don't fill out our form and contact us as a buyer, at least they see our brand, they see our name, and then later on they'll see our ads. They're retargeting. So we kind of get that benefit of the brand awareness at the same time for a lower cost of a click versus putting out really heavy ads and spending a lot on ad spend.

[Omar Khan]

Yeah. So roughly like how much money are you spending? What kind of budget do you kind of allocate for AdWords?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Right now in terms of ad spend between Google Ads, we're doing some LinkedIn now it's 2,500amonth.

[Omar Khan]

Okay. All right, so it's a modest amount. You're not going crazy here.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, it's a small amount compared to what our competitors are doing. It's. It's not much, but we're getting some good leads out of it.

[Omar Khan]

The other kind of growth channel you tried and put a fair amount of investment into or try to get right was event marketing. That didn't work out as well as you thought it would. So I want to talk a little bit about that because I think there's some useful lessons there. So maybe let's just start at the top and just say, like, what was the hypothesis around events, and what did you decide to go and do?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, so we've attended several events in the IT space. You know, having a booth, sponsoring events, you know, having our team out there. The idea was, you know, we're in the room with our target audience. They're all IT people, They're in IT asset management, they're in some kind of that space. So the idea is it's a room full of prospects. At the end of the day, it's the great place to talk to people and try to sell our product, but ultimately didn't really work out for us in the long term. Honestly, to me, it was a lot of wasteful spending. And we saw our competitors also attending these events. So we thought, okay, if they're there, we should be there too. But then we think, okay, well, they have the big budgets. They can spend it and not worry about it later on down the line. And that's ultimately, it ended up for us not wanting to do events again in the future because there was really no ROI for us at the end of the day.

[Omar Khan]

So were you just attending events and kind of handing out swag and stuff like that, or were you, like, paying for a booth and kind of going all in as kind of on kind of the floor in terms of trying to talk to customers and do demos? And what kind of approach did you take?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, I mean, we were going all in. We've had booths set up. We're giving out swag, got presentations on our booth. We're trying to get people to sign up for demos. We've had people come up to us. They get really excited about getting a demo after we get back. And I would say we've had zero follow up from anybody who's ever said that they wanted to have a demo and that they need a tool. And it's really discouraging when that happens, not just in one conference, but multiple. So at the end of the day, it's like, do we really want to keep doing these? Are we wasting time? We could spend those four days and that money doing something else.

[Omar Khan]

How many events did you take a crack at before you decided to pull the plug?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

So we did. So the first few years we did one a year, and then last year we did four different events. We are doing one this year. We know this one will work out. It's a very specific niche and industry. We're already working well with some of the leaders at the organization and we've actually had some prospects come in through it. But other than that, some of the bigger conferences we're just going to pass this year.

[Omar Khan]

One of the things we talked about earlier, before we started recording, was this idea that you said we were doing events, but then you noticed that all your competitors were talking about using similar buzzwords and by taking a similar approach to them, you were just blending in instead of standing out. And I thought that was an insightful observation. Just talk a little bit more about that because I think there's some useful lessons here because it's very easy to look at what's happening in the market and say, well, that's what we should be doing. Because they're doing that.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, we're getting into this mindset of, okay, the competitor is aligning themselves this way. This is our messaging on their branding and their booth and table. So in our mind, it's like, okay, it must work for them if they're doing it right. So we kind of follow the same train of thought and do something similar instead of doing things our way, where we want to be disruptive and get a different message out there so we can get those eyes and grab that attention. So that did hurt us where we were kind of blending in like you said. And yeah, it wasn't the approach we should have taken at the time. So it was a learning lesson for us when it came to doing these events and setting up the booths and the marketing material.

[Omar Khan]

Has that also influenced the way you do your general marketing and your messaging and the way you talk about the product or kind of buzzwords you try to avoid?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, we have a rule with our marketing team not to use buzzwords. We actually have a blog post and a LinkedIn post about how as a company, we don't want to use buzzwords and just it jargon that every other competitor talks about. Because a lot of the time in our eyes, it's just fluff. We want to help our customers. We don't want to just sell them on some fantasy. Right. So there's actually a role within our company and our marketing team to stay off all buzzwords and jargon is in even our. If you look at our socials, we're trying to be different with our graphics and our messaging around what we're doing. Just trying to get that attention out there.

[Omar Khan]

I think the other thing you mentioned was like, hey, one of the lessons from events was it's better to be talking to more prospects who are ready to buy than ones. You just kind of come across at sort of these events that are kind of interested, but it's not really a serious decision that they're considering right now. Why do you think that was kind of an issue at events? I mean, I'm sure there are people who are going to these events for the reason to kind of consider alternative solutions or maybe their IT asset management is kind of a mess right now and they're trying to figure out how to solve that or do a better job at it.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, I feel that there's a few things around it. Sometimes they might not be the decision maker. They're just sent to this conference to go learn about new products and tools and then they don't really follow up after that point. Some of the conferences, especially the larger ones, are more of a social event. So you'll get excited, you'll meet a new vendor, you'll say, hey, we'll connect afterwards. But it's just really not a serious conversation in their minds at the end of the day. And then we're also, when it comes to IT asset management in this industry, a lot of companies already have a tool in place. So even if we do talk to a prospect at an event, we realize they have something in place. They don't want to move it, they don't want to shift things around, it's expensive for them to do that. Or they're just stuck with what they have and they don't have any decision making authority on even making a switch to a new provider.

[Omar Khan]

Yeah, yeah. So like who is your icp? Is there a particular Persona or somebody in the organization that you think is like that? Now you know, okay, this is the person I should be talking to.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, it's typically like you're head of IT IT manager. Depending on the size of the company, we might even get to that CTO level. Some of the smaller companies, our CTO will make some of those decisions as well, but usually that IT director, head of IT IT manager is our main target.

[Omar Khan]

And then. So is that when you were at events most of the time those were not necessarily the people you were talking to?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, sometimes actually. I mean There were some where they were the IT asset manager.

[Omar Khan]

Really?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah. Like, okay, this is exciting. We've got like six different IT asset managers wanting to schedule a demo after we get back, and they. After that, they just ghost us and go silent.

[Omar Khan]

And it turned out that they weren't the decision makers. Is that what you're saying?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

I guess not. I mean, I don't know. They just never responded.

[Omar Khan]

Wow. Okay. All right, cool. So I think some good lessons there about events. You know, it's, you know, I think in many ways, like when you kind of describe the event piece and we were chatting earlier, it was like, hey, it sounds like a good plan, right? Like, you're getting out there, you're going where your potential customers are, you're spreading the word about activity, you're there, be the face of the company, do the demos. Sounds like a great way to reach customers. But it's interesting that it turned out to be completely the opposite in terms of a growth driver.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, that helped also with just learning about how we could budget things out a little better. So if we know, okay, we're spending $10,000 on a particular event, what could we do with that 10,000 somewhere else? Whether it's a LinkedIn, ads, Google Ads, or even bringing on additional resource to help with our marketing efforts, or a salesperson, an sdr. So now, whenever an opportunity comes our way, whether it's an event or sponsoring something or paid publications, for example, we'll look at things in more detail and put together our pros and cons and opportunity cost and everything before we even pull the trigger on anything. We did learn a lot from all of these different methods that we've tried in the past.

[Omar Khan]

So if events were such a failure, why are you doing another event this year?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

There's one event our growth manager really wants to do it, but he's also made a lot of good contacts there. We've actually had several prospects. We're doing multiple demos, and we're doing a pilot program for a particular industry, education. So we're looking to see how we can get our solution into a lot of schools. And we already have some on board that we're working with. When it comes to high schools, middle schools, they give out tablets, they give out Chromebooks to the students. They're not tracking anything. There's a lot that goes missing. There's damaged equipment out there, there's lost equipment. So we're working on a plan to where we can help a lot of schools with their IT asset management. So that one I'm okay with. And the cost of. We're actually not setting up a booth there. We're actually speaking at the event.

[Omar Khan]

We talked about you kind of figuring out how to build a great product support. You obviously have been doing the right things where you've got customers willing to get on the phone and talk to prospects and tell them how much they love using techtivity. Building trust and a brand is super important. And especially if you're bootstrapped and in a market dominated by some very big, well funded players, that reputation and credibility is so important. And then I think it was like two years ago you had a data breach which affected one of your customers. Tell me about what happened there and how much of an issue it was.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, a couple years ago we did have a data breach where information from one of our customers was leaked. To be honest, that was probably one of the worst times of my life going through that. We lost a lot of trust with that current customer. But other we had to notify our other customers that something did happen. All of their data was safe. But at the end of the day, everybody's still questioning our company. We're a small company, we're bootstrapped and why should they keep trusting us? But we really learned a lot in terms of our security posture, how to navigate through situations like that and then also building that trust back up with that particular customer and some of the others that were questioning us at that point.

[Omar Khan]

Did you lose that customer?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

We still had them.

[Omar Khan]

Nice, nice. So kind of looking back at that experience now, you obviously looked at the security issues and what you guys needed to do a better job with, but what do you think helped you to keep that customer, to rebuild the trust? Like if someone's like in that situation today, like what are some of the lessons they can take away from your experience there?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, so the first thing that we did was they actually moved the software on prem to their own server. So that way less risk of their data being loose again. And then just working with them on clearing things up. And to be honest, they're so integrated with our product internally with multiple departments, it would have been very difficult for them to even get rid of the tool. But over time, since then, we've worked closely with them on building new features, adding more to it, more value to it, but at the same time showing them that our, our servers are also secure by going through sod 2 approval, showing them pen tests, showing them more reporting around what we're doing on our security side of things.

[Omar Khan]

Do you find that you have to jump through a lot of those kinds of security hoops when you're bringing on new customers. I mean, I know just in the IT space, there's got to be like, you got to be SOC compliant, you got to do this, you got to do that. And, and I've talked to founders who are like, yeah, we were kind of like doing really well with this potential customer. And then they give us this 200 page document that we've got to kind of go through. Right. Is that something that you have to deal with?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, it's normal. The larger the company, the more chance of them doing a security audit. Security questionnaire. Some of the smaller companies have, they've been okay just signing vendors, but as part of SOC or ISO, you're supposed to vet your vendors. So we know that it's part of the process. So now we're prepared for it every time, whether it's an Excel file or a portal that we have to answer questions in. But we have our pen test, we have our SOC 2 report that we could always provide. So we're confident now that our prospects won't really question us in terms of our security. There's a lot of evidence that we could show that we are secure and maintaining that over time.

[Omar Khan]

Great. So you've gone from the hardware business to software business. You've hit the first million in ARR. You're a seven figure ARR business today. Still bootstrapped. Have you thought about raising money? Has that been something that you've considered?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

I've considered it. I think about it sometimes. I actually do take on calls whenever VCs or PEs come out and they want to learn more about the product or invest in it. At this moment, I'm happy with where we're at with bootstrapping. Like I mentioned, how we, we build our product based on our customers needs. Being bootstrapped gives us that flexibility and agility to do whatever we want. Right. If we have investors or other people that we have to answer to, essentially then we kind of lose some of that, I feel. So I'd rather stay bootstrapped at this moment and just grow naturally and organically.

[Omar Khan]

Do you feel like you would be able to grow faster if you had funding?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

I'm sure we could, yeah.

[Omar Khan]

But you're happy with how you're growing?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

I'm happy with it. Plus there's also, I would say, like fear in the back of my mind. Right. I've gone through multiple businesses in the past as well, with other partners, other people that haven't taken off where I've done most of the work and hasn't gone anywhere. Right. Or they've just failed. The fear will be. And then with the locker situation we put so much money into was a big financial hit. The fear is that we take money from somebody and it just doesn't work out. And I still have that feeling as well all the time. So, yes, we could get funding. There's a lot of people that reach out to us all the time. But then it's like, okay, we have to make sure that we perform at that level. And I feel like we're not at a place yet to where I know that we can take a bunch of money and then get to where we want to be. Once I know we hit the point that I want to be at, I think we could. I just don't want to end up taking money and then risking it. Right.

[Omar Khan]

Yeah. That's very pragmatic. It's good. All right, we should wrap up. Let's get onto the lightning round. I've got seven quick fire questions for you. Ready?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Sounds good.

[Omar Khan]

Okay. What's one of the best pieces of business advice you've received?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, I would say just stay focused and patient. The success doesn't come overnight, but at the same time, be prepared to pivot if you need to make some changes.

[Omar Khan]

What book would you recommend to our audience and why?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

One of my favorites has been Zero to Sold Arvid. Kal. That book really helped me kind of validate the direction when we were building the company and the product. In terms of are we doing things the right way when we're growing?

[Omar Khan]

Yeah, Arvid's a great guy. What's one attribute or characteristic in your mind of a successful founder?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Just be passionate about what you're doing. You want to wake up in the morning feeling good about the company, the direction is going, and the challenges that you're going to be facing.

[Omar Khan]

What's your favorite personal productivity tool or habit?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

I think I'm old school. I love my notepad. My notepad that I fill out every day with everything that I need to do. So, yeah, that's really it for me.

[Omar Khan]

What's a new or crazy business idea you'd love to pursue if you had the time?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, if I had time, I would love to help kids in India in smaller villages with education. And it's. That's something that in the future, I would love to get involved with.

[Omar Khan]

Cool. What's an interesting or fun fact about you that most people don't know?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

So one thing I can say is there's a lot of memes you'll see about people who run and they like to talk about. I just ran a marathon. I love to run and I'm actually planning out my 2025 run schedule, so should have some runs on the book soon.

[Omar Khan]

Nice. And finally, what's one of your most important passions outside of your work?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, outside of work, I spend a lot of time volunteering for the Huntington's Disease Society of America. They're a national nonprofit that helps families that are affected by H.D. huntington's disease. My brother passed away with the disease in 2012. Been involved with them since 2011, helping with fundraising, raising awareness and helping our local families in the LA area with support.

[Omar Khan]

Great. Love that. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a pleasure talking about the business. I love the kind of the journey from building this hardware business, the pivot, how you've gone and made that transition after having put in a lot of your own personal money into, into the business. And then also, you know, getting, getting some, some traction in a, in a pretty, pretty competitive space where, you know, you, you've got some players who are extremely well funded and you know, kind of sort of carving out a niche for yourself as a bootstrap business in that space is pretty impressive.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it.

[Omar Khan]

Yeah, yeah. So, my pleasure. So if people want to check out Techtivity, they can go to techtivity.com and that's tech with a T E Q activity.com and if folks want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Yeah, they can email me. I'm open book for contacting. So it's heronactivity.com.

[Omar Khan]

Awesome. Thanks man. It's been a pleasure and I wish you and the team the best of success.

[Hiran Hasmukh]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Omar Khan]

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