Podcast Summary

The SaaS Revolution Show

Episode: Building AI-enabled Products: Lessons from Tines Co-founder Tom Kinsella
Host: Alex Theuma (SaaS Revolution Show)
Guest: Thomas Kinsella, Co-founder & CCO at Tines
Interviewed by: Anya Malloy, Startups Account Manager at AWS
Date: November 6, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode is a deep dive into building world-class, AI-enabled products with Thomas Kinsella, Co-founder and CCO of Tines, an Irish workflow automation company. Thomas shares actionable lessons on integrating AI into SaaS, product positioning, selling to conservative enterprise customers, land and expand strategies, turning users into internal champions, global expansion, and his outlook on Ireland's tech ecosystem. The conversation emphasizes pragmatic and ethical adoption of AI, going beyond hype to real value delivery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Company Introduction & AI Transformation ([01:40])

• Thomas Kinsella introduces Tines as an intelligent workflow automation B2B SaaS platform combining AI, automation, and integration to help businesses power complex workflows (from startups to Fortune 10). Tines is globally distributed, headquartered in Ireland.
• AI as a Fundamental Shift:
  “Like everybody else, AI has transformed the way Tynes works and transformed the way businesses work.” ([02:38])
  • Historically, work was split between human judgment and deterministic code.
  • AI agents now act as a third “layer”—good at some things humans/coders aren’t, but with caveats (e.g., not always best at judgment/scale).
  • “AI is able to do pretty much anything. It's a little bit scary... you have to decide what is it good for.” ([02:38])

2. Where AI Adds Value vs. Hype ([04:44])

• Framework for Determining AI Usefulness:
  • Thomas discusses a strategic framework: Creativity, Scale, Safety.
    • Creativity: Use AI/humans, not code.
    • Scale: Use code/AI, not humans.
    • Safety (reliability, compliance): Use code, not AI/humans.
• Exemplar processes where AI fits: “Customer service is a brilliant example, marketing is a really good example... there’s toleration of error.”
  Where not to use AI: “If you’re onboarding a customer and doing KYC checks, you definitely shouldn’t be using AI for that.” ([04:44])

3. Selling AI Products to Conservative Enterprises ([06:33])

• Assessing Customer Profile:
  • Not every large “legacy” enterprise is right; assess risk tolerance and fit.
  • Sales to big banks are fundamentally different/slower than to cloud-first startups.
  • For hesitant enterprises, lead with security, compliance, and practical integration for trust:
    • “We use Bedrock, that’s an AWS tool. It means we can make claims: there’s no training, logging, or storage—your data stays in region... their compliance team [goes] ‘oh, okay’.” ([06:33])
• Don’t Sell “AI” for Its Own Sake:
  • Sell on value/pain relief, not buzzwords.
  • Set expectations—AI isn’t magic and seamless delivery often takes extra effort: “You’re going to have to do some of the work [to deliver the ‘ChatGPT wow’ moment].” ([06:33])

4. “Land and Expand” Strategy ([09:00])

• Bowtie Method:
  • “Land” is just the beginning—true value is gained as you expand within the organization.
  • Success starts with delighting initial users—“Make your product 10x better, have a world-class support team, ensure onboarding is effective.” ([09:00])
• Plan for Broad Applicability:
  • Start with a broad total addressable market (TAM)—don’t pigeonhole (e.g., only cybersecurity automation).
  • “From the very start, we became a secure platform... but also knew: when building, don’t be too specific.” ([09:00])

5. Turning Customers into Champions ([11:42])

• Understanding Pain, Enabling Bragging Rights:
  • Cybersecurity teams are often “goalkeepers” who only get noticed when things go wrong.
  • “When a cybersecurity team can say, ‘Check this out, I’ve just automated this whole process and freed up a load of time’—that’s a win they can brag about.” ([11:42])
  • Empowering advocacy: “Giving them the ability to brag about their job... that’s a surefire way... they’ll share your product.” ([12:38])

6. Global Expansion & Key Tradeoffs ([14:31])

• US-Centric Growth, Irish Roots:

  • 80% of revenue from US/North America, but co-headquartering in Ireland fosters local ambition and community.

• Early Mistakes & Lessons:
  • “A mistake I’ve made is believing that if you build it, they will come... It’s never about that—it’s always about getting 1% better every day.” ([14:31])
  • Don’t tentatively expand—invest meaningfully in new regions (sales, marketing, CS teams) to build credibility with big customers.
  • “When you say to a large bank, ‘How many people do you have?’ and you say ‘three,’ you don’t sound like you can support me.” ([14:31])

7. The Irish SaaS and Startup Landscape ([17:11])

• Ambition Beyond Borders:
  • “The ambition of some people right now, it’s like really incredible to see—they’re not satisfied in saying, ‘I just want to do this’... they want America, Europe, massive enterprise clients.” ([17:11])
• Ecosystem of Experience:
  • Serial founders (ex-Intercom, Stripe, Wayflyer, Sisu, Mana) now mentor and seed the next generation.
  • “Five or ten years ago, we had ambition but not experience. Now we have both—when someone asks, ‘Should I expand to Australia?’ someone can say, ‘No, not yet!’” ([17:11])
  • Inspirational message: “Don’t let anyone define your success—just starting a company is incredible, be proud of that.” ([17:11])

8. What’s Next for Tines ([19:53])

• Market Momentum:
  • “We just landed our three largest deals in company history.” ([19:53])
  • “We’re hoping to almost double revenue this year and next. It’s an exciting time… we’re hiring like crazy.” ([19:53])
• Competition:
  • Noting OpenAI’s entrance into the workflow space validates Tines’ market.
  • “It’s an amazing time to be a workflow platform...it’s just about strapping in and executing.” ([19:53])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI Product Fit:
  “AI is able to do pretty much anything. It's a little bit scary...you have to decide, what is it good for?”
  — Thomas Kinsella ([02:38])

• On Value-led AI Deployment:
  “If it needs to be safe every time, use code. If it needs creativity, use AI or humans. If it needs scale, use code or AI.”
  — Thomas Kinsella ([04:44])

• Selling to Enterprises:
  “You should never be saying, ‘Hey, I’m going to sell you AI.’ Sell based on value.”
  — Thomas Kinsella ([06:33])

• On Customer Champions:
  “If you’re able to give people the ability to brag about their job, that’s a surefire way... they’ll share your product.”
  — Thomas Kinsella ([12:38])

• On Early Global Expansion Errors:
  “We made one or two decisions to be a little more tentative... we actually weren’t wildly successful because when you’re expanding, you have to invest [fully].”
  — Thomas Kinsella ([14:31])

• On Irish Startup Ambition:
  “Don’t let anybody else define your success... Just starting a company is incredible. Be massively proud.”
  — Thomas Kinsella ([17:11])

• On Tines’ Immediate Future:
  “We just saw OpenAI release their own workflow builder—where we believe we’re the leader.”
  — Thomas Kinsella ([19:53])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:40] — Intro to Tines and their core product strategy
• [02:38] — The impact of AI and where it should fit in product architecture
• [04:44] — Framework for deciding when AI is an accelerant vs. a gimmick
• [06:33] — Selling AI products into data-sensitive, conservative enterprises
• [09:00] — Landing initial deals and expanding within large organizations
• [11:42] — Turning conservative, privacy-focused customers into vocal champions
• [14:31] — Global expansion, mistakes made, and lessons learned
• [17:11] — The evolution and ambition of the Irish SaaS/startup ecosystem
• [19:53] — What’s next for Tines: growth, hiring, and competing with platform giants

Tone

The episode is pragmatic, candid, and focused on real-world experience over hype. Thomas is optimistic yet measured, often reflecting thoughtfully on mistakes and lessons learned.

A must-listen for SaaS founders and product leaders seeking grounded advice on building and scaling AI-driven B2B products.