Podcast Summary: The SaaS Revolution Show
Episode: Vibe code vs no-code: Softr’s vision for the future of app building
Host: Alex Theuma
Guest: Mariam Hakobyan, CEO of Softr
Date: October 23, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Alex Theuma sits down with Mariam Hakobyan, CEO of Softr, live at SaaStock Europe 2025 in Dublin. The conversation explores the current landscape and future potential of no-code platforms, focusing on Softr's unique approach to business app building, the integration of AI, their growth strategies, and candid reflections on competition, distribution, and where the market is headed.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Mission and Philosophy of Softr
- Softr is a no-code platform for businesses to build apps such as internal tools, customer portals, and more, aimed at non-technical builders.
- Mariam emphasizes that their focus is on making business app creation accessible and production-ready for roles like operations, sales, and marketing, not just for hobbyists or technical users.
- “We have now crossed 1 million builders on Softr that are building business apps. And these are the builders that are totally non technical. They don't know how to code and they are really solving problems for their business.” [03:21]
2. The Synergy of No-Code and AI
- The integration of generative AI is accelerating Softr's mission, making app-building even smarter and more personalized.
- Mariam argues that while AI isn't changing the way we code per se, its combination with no-code platforms is transformative:
- “AI isn't changing how we build software, it's not teaching us how to code. But the next wave really is the combination of AI and no code...they'll make building software right and fast at the same time.” [02:36]
- No-code provides crucial guardrails and constraints, ensuring reliability and accessibility, while AI brings flexibility, intelligence, and faster solutions to specific, complex problems.
3. Differentiation from "Vibe Coding" Platforms
- The episode touches on the rise—and limitations—of "vibe coding" tools (quick, easy app builders).
- Mariam critiques these platforms for being great for prototyping but ultimately messy for maintenance and scaling, especially for non-technical users.
- “Wipe coded apps right now are really becoming a mess after a certain point and it's really difficult to continue building, maintaining for non technical users. Our users are really non technical builders...” [04:41]
- Softr’s edge lies in catering directly to business-critical, operational use cases, abstracting complexity while letting users retain meaningful control.
4. Go-To-Market (GTM) & Growth Strategy
- Nearly all of Softr's growth is organic, driven by:
- Word of mouth and referrals
- SEO, especially content targeting specific problems or industries
- A library of customizable templates addressing niche business needs
- “We have grown mostly organically through word of mouth, community and SEO and also really without sales team.” [03:21]
5. Founder Perspective, Thought Leadership & Brand Building
- Mariam admits she has focused inward on product and design to date but recognizes thought leadership as today’s most authentic marketing path.
- “I would love to do more. I haven't really spent much time on that...I do believe we do have so many learnings that could be useful for many other founders.” [07:13]
6. Tools & Day-to-Day AI Usage
- ChatGPT is a key tool in Mariam’s daily workflow. Softr also leverages its own in-house AI tools and is rolling out workflow automation features for bookings, calendar management, and more.
- “We actually just ourselves now are launching our own workflow tool. We have our own database with AI agents...” [08:03]
7. The Future of No-Code, AI, and App Building
- Mariam envisions the evolution from “full stack application building” to “AI powered application building,” with AI copilots guiding users more efficiently to results.
- “Our product is evolving and has become an AI powered no code platform...we’re definitely looking at all the ways how we can incorporate [AI] into the platform to be the best platform for building apps, the easiest and the fastest way.” [08:55]
- The importance of constraints (from no-code) and intelligence (from AI) remains central.
8. Market Challenges: Distribution, Competition, and the AI Bubble
- The biggest concern for Softr is distribution in an increasingly crowded market, not technology alone:
- “Today, the distribution has become harder than ever. Absolutely. Every day there is a new AI company coming out...distribution is where you really can win.” [10:09]
- Mariam is aware of a potential “AI bubble” but asserts that companies solving real, fundamental problems and effectively harnessing AI will survive:
- “Companies that really work on fundamental problems and solve the hard problems, and then really are able to power all of that with the AI intelligence, personalization. They are the ones that will win in the future. And that's what we are building at Softr.” [11:06]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On AI + No-code:
“AI isn't changing how we build software, it's not teaching us how to code. But the next wave really is the combination of AI and no code...they'll make building software right and fast at the same time.”
— Mariam Hakobyan [02:36] -
On customer acquisition:
“We have grown mostly organically through word of mouth, community and SEO and also really without sales team.”
— Mariam Hakobyan [03:21] -
On the limitations of current low-code tools:
“Wipe coded apps right now are really becoming a mess after a certain point and it's really difficult to continue building, maintaining for non technical users. Our users are really non technical builders...”
— Mariam Hakobyan [04:41] -
On what keeps her up at night:
“Today, the distribution has become harder than ever...distribution is where you really can win.”
— Mariam Hakobyan [10:09] -
On the AI hype era:
“Companies that really work on fundamental problems and solve the hard problems, and then really are able to power all of that with the AI intelligence, personalization. They are the ones that will win in the future. And that’s what we are building at Softr.”
— Mariam Hakobyan [11:06]
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Topic | Timestamp | |-------------------------------|:-------------:| | Softr’s mission & product | 01:28–02:25 | | AI + No-code synergy | 02:36–03:07 | | Go-to-market & growth | 03:21–04:08 | | Vibe code vs No-code debate | 04:41–06:15 | | Acquisition channels | 06:15–07:07 | | Founder brand/marketing | 07:13–07:56 | | AI tools for productivity | 08:03–08:30 | | The future of app building | 08:55–10:04 | | Distribution & competition | 10:09–10:59 | | Reflections on the AI bubble | 11:06–11:47 |
Conclusion
This episode offers a candid, practical look at building and scaling a SaaS company in the competitive, AI-accelerated no-code space. Mariam Hakobyan shares actionable insights on product philosophy, genuine differentiation, and the tough realities of distribution and staying ahead in a hype-driven market. Her conviction that real, fundamental problems matter—more than any fleeting trend in AI—serves as both a guide and a challenge for founders everywhere.