The SaaSiest Podcast – Episode 98: Emma Aidanpää-Salmi, VP Customer Success, Relex Solutions

Topic: How Should CSMs be Measured?
Date: August 17, 2023
Host(s): Daniel Nackovski & Thomas Sjöberg
Guest: Emma Aidanpää-Salmi, VP of Customer Success, Relex Solutions

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the evolving role of Customer Success Managers (CSMs) in SaaS, specifically how their contributions should be measured in modern organizations. Emma Aidanpää-Salmi, VP Customer Success at Relex Solutions, joins Daniel and Thomas to share how her team at Relex balances customer satisfaction, value delivery, and revenue growth, and what metrics and structures underpin a successful and motivated CS operation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emma’s Background & Relex Solutions at a Glance

• Emma’s personal story combines Swedish and Finnish influences, and an athletic background in hurdles and sprints. (04:21)
• Joined Relex 8 years ago as employee 130; company now has ~1,900 employees, 21 offices, and 350+ global customers.
• Relex Solutions provides a global supply chain and retail planning platform, aiming mainly to reduce food waste and inefficiency in retail/CPG value chains.
  • “Our ultimate goal is to make consumer goods value chains more efficient and adaptive to change.” (05:08)
  • Rapid growth: From €12 million revenue (2015) to €150 million ARR (2022), with 50% ARR growth rates the past three years. (07:18)

2. Defining the Modern Customer Success Function

• “Customer Success is the 2.0 account management. You’re taking it further, you’re taking it a bit broader… You focus on value, you focus on measurable benefits for the customer.” – Emma (02:29 & 23:14)
• The CSM role has evolved from reactive support to strategic, value-driven, and growth-oriented partnership.

3. Measuring CSMs: The Core Metrics

a) Customer Satisfaction (CSAT, NPS & Beyond)

• NPS (Net Promoter Score) is widely used, but not sufficient alone.
• Continuous feedback collected at every customer touchpoint—post-project, product deliverables, service/support interactions. (13:44)
  • Quotes:
    • “It’s important that you are measuring NPS as a part of your customer satisfaction journey. But then it’s super important as well to expand that…” (12:27)
    • “You have to orchestrate your team internally… ensure there are people from IT, from business, from different levels… gathering feedback from every conversation.” (15:21)
• Tracking and storing satisfaction data to spot trends and actionable insights, though Emma admits the “code” isn’t fully cracked yet.

b) Revenue Growth & Net Revenue Retention

• CSMs should be directly responsible for expansion within existing accounts—upselling and driving net revenue retention. (10:07)
  • “For me, customer success has always been about business growth. We shouldn’t shy away from being in the center of growing company revenue.” (10:07)
  • New business (cross-sell) is typically handled by sales; CSMs focus on expanding product footprint (upsell) within current customers.

c) Bookings & Compensation

• Relex uses a three-part CSM compensation model: base salary, annual bonus (based on CS metrics), and sales commission for upsell revenue. (21:10)
  • “I would see that having a three-folded compensation model… is the way of balancing between these metrics.” (21:10)

d) Additional Metrics

• Net Retention Rate (NRR) and bookings are core.
• Balance of qualitative (relationship, trust, value delivered) and quantitative metrics (ARR growth, expansion, cross-sell).

4. Structuring Teams & Roles for CS Success

• At Relex, the classic account manager role has been eliminated:
  • “I don’t see that account management is needed in 2023, at least not in our business… Customer Success is the 2.0 of account management.” (23:14)
• Instead, clear distinction:
  • Sales team leads net new and cross-sell.
  • CS team leads expansion/upsell within product suite.
• Internal upskilling and "evangelist" roles support continuous capability growth, mentoring, and knowledge transfer.
  • “Not every [CSM] has to be good at everything. You can allocate people to work more on certain areas.” (25:29)

5. When to Start Expansion Conversations (Upsell)

• Customer Success should be introduced near the end of the sales process, not after.
• Upsell/expansion opportunities don’t have a set waiting period—they're identified via deep listening to customer needs, sometimes immediately post-sale. (19:18)
  • “Be involved as early as possible and have the right touch points and conversations… with the client, with your internal teams.” (20:51)

6. Process & Tooling for Account Growth

• Effort to tightly integrate CS and sales processes using shared tools (e.g., Salesforce).
• Still looking for an optimal customer success tool partner, as the right tooling is core for structured approach, especially in high-touch enterprise models. (29:44)

7. Team Structure & Reporting

• Relex CS org: 75 globally, 60 dedicated CSMs, plus support teams for training, value calculations, and community engagement. (35:03)
• CS reports to COO, but maintains strong dotted line to sales organization to ensure alignment and collaboration. (36:33)

8. CSM Profiles & Talent Pipeline

• Hybrid talent required: product/domain expertise + business acumen + commercial capabilities—rare, so team diversity and internal development are critical.
• Ongoing challenge to find, nurture, and upskill future CSMs; combining industry hiring and internal mobility. (25:29, 27:53)

9. Insights on Expansion Ownership & Conflict Avoidance

• Clear demarcation avoids conflict between CSM and sales for expansion credit and commission.
  • Larger, cross-product expansions led by sales; CSMs handle more modular/functionality upsell.
  • “We also actually compensate our CSMs for supporting the sales people to become successful.” (33:08)
• Having clear processes and goodwill prevents most friction.

10. Future Ambitions & Requests

• Humble goal of “world domination” – to become the global leader in the space while keeping promises to customers and never overpromising. (40:12)
• Actively seeking:
  • A best-fit Customer Success platform/tool partner,
  • New talent—open invitations for candidates.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Customer Success is the 2.0 of account management. You're taking it further, you're taking it a bit broader into the solution. You focus on value, you focus on measurable benefits for the customer." – Emma (02:29, 23:14)
• "For me, customer success has always been about business growth... we shouldn't shy away as customer success organizations to also be in the center of growing the company's revenue." – Emma (10:07)
• "Not every individual in the team has to be good at everything... when you have identified the capabilities, you can allocate some people to work more on certain areas and upskill each other." – Emma (25:29)
• "If not the bigger share or even the majority of [upsell] opportunities are either generated or closed by the CS Org, then maybe we're not doing something fully correctly." – Emma (38:57)
• "I think you can come in a strange situation where you have a customer success person closest to the customer, but if they want to buy something new, you need a different person to get a price. It makes sense to have that in customer success." – Thomas (46:19)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Relex company growth & mission: 04:49 – 08:13
• Evolution of the CSM role: 09:12 – 10:07
• CS metrics: satisfaction & business growth: 10:07 – 12:16
• Collecting & acting on customer feedback: 12:27 – 15:21
• Balancing satisfaction vs. revenue: 16:31 – 18:40
• Process for account expansion and handoff: 19:18 – 21:10
• Compensation structure for CSMs: 21:10 – 22:40
• Why (not) have account managers?: 23:14 – 27:00
• CS organization design & talent: 35:03 – 37:24
• Advice to CS leaders on measurement: 37:24 – 38:40
• Handling upsell/cross-sell credit & friction: 33:08 – 34:57
• Future plans, tool needs & talent search: 40:09 – 41:59

Conclusion: Actionable Takeaways

• CSM teams should be measured on a blend of customer satisfaction and direct revenue growth (upsell/expansion), supported by a balanced compensation structure.
• Clear role definitions and collaboration boundaries between sales and CS prevent internal friction and ensure customer-centricity.
• Finding hybrid talent is hard; organizations should structure teams for skill diversity and foster internal development.
• Introduce CS during (not after) the sales cycle to set the stage for value-driven, long-term growth and satisfaction.
• CSMs are not support or coordinators—they are strategic growth partners in the organization.

For More:
If you’re a SaaS leader thinking about your CS team’s structure and measurement, or considering the elimination of traditional account managers, this episode offers hands-on, practical advice rooted in rapid SaaS scaling experience.

Interested in partnering with Relex or joining their team?
They're currently scouting for a CS tool vendor and always keen on new talent! (41:20)