The Sabrina Zohar Show

Episode 151: What Healing REALLY Looks Like with Dr. Richard Schwartz
Guest: Dr. Richard (Dick) Schwartz, creator of Internal Family Systems (IFS)
Release Date: July 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode brings Dr. Richard Schwartz, the pioneering founder of Internal Family Systems (IFS), to the podcast for an in-depth and experiential discussion of healing, parts work, and self-connection. Host Sabrina Zohar, an advocate and practitioner of IFS, shares her own emotional journey as Dr. Schwartz guides her through a transformative live IFS session. The conversation demystifies key concepts like “exiles,” “protectors,” and “self-sabotage,” and offers deeply practical insights on breaking cycles of anxious attachment, relationship challenges, and personal growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins and Philosophy of IFS

(01:55 – 13:14)

• Dr. Schwartz’s Background: Trained as a family therapist, he became disillusioned with interventions that ignored internal psychological systems.
• Discovery of Inner “Parts”: Patients described inner dynamics (“a critic,” “a bingeing part,” “an empty part”) reminiscent of family dynamics.
• Key Concept: Everyone contains multiple “parts” (sub-personalities) that interact, often due to past trauma or unmet needs.
• System Thinking Shift: Instead of trying to control, banish, or shame problematic parts, IFS teaches us to listen and approach them with appreciation and curiosity.
  • Quote: “As I got more and more clients to do this, it became clear that they weren’t living in the present, that they were stuck in these trauma scenes in the past... They weren’t what they seemed; they were trying to protect my client.” — Dick Schwartz (07:55)

2. Understanding “Parts”: Exiles, Protectors, Managers, and Firefighters

(04:48 – 13:14)

• Exiled Parts (“Exiles”): Carry wounds from trauma/attachment injuries, often overwhelming when triggered (“raw, fiery emotion”).
• Protectors:
  • Managers: Control life to avoid triggering exiles (people-pleasing, perfectionism, caretaking).
  • Firefighters: React impulsively to numb or distract from pain (substances, compulsions).
• Healing Process: The goal isn’t to banish these parts, but to heal their wounds and restore their original, helpful functions.

3. The Role of “Self” in Healing

(Approx. 12:00 Onward)

• Concept of “Self”: Everyone has a core Self characterized by qualities beginning with “C” (Compassion, Curiosity, Calm, Clarity, Confidence, Courage, Creativity, Connectedness).
• Transformation: By approaching parts with Self-leadership (these C qualities), healing and integration can occur.

IFS in Practice: Live Coaching Session

(22:49 – 39:44)

Dr. Schwartz conducts a live IFS coaching session with Sabrina, demonstrating the process step-by-step.

Identifying the “Part”

(23:10 – 23:54)

• Sabrina describes a familiar, insecure part connected to fears of abandonment—not just in dating, but also in friendships and career.
  • Quote: “If an episode doesn’t do well, that’s it. Nobody likes me...I’m talking to my father, but yet I can’t seem to work with this part to let me be the adult.” — Sabrina Zohar (23:36)

Gaining Access and Compassion

(24:01 – 25:47)

• Dr. Schwartz uses “unblending”—asking protective parts to step aside so Sabrina can approach her insecure inner part with curiosity rather than discomfort or resistance.
  • Quote: “It was like a weight was lifted. She just kind of was like, oh, you see me?” — Sabrina Zohar (25:54)

Exploring Childhood Roots

(26:33 – 27:21)

• The wounded part links to childhood experiences of being bullied and overlooked at home and school.
  • Quote: “I would just remember going to school and feeling so alone and realizing at home no one saw me and hoping that maybe elsewhere somebody would see me.” — Sabrina Zohar (27:00)

Encountering Protector Resistance

(28:17 – 29:46)

• Sabrina voices fear that letting go of her “worthless” narrative would remove her motivation.
  • Quote: “If I don’t have the narrative that there’s something wrong with me, then how am I going to motivate myself to actually move forward in my life?” — Sabrina Zohar (29:50)
• Dr. Schwartz normalizes this, noting how achievement-driven parts may rely on shame and self-criticism.

Rescuing and Reparenting the Exile

(31:27 – 34:54)

• Sabrina, guided by Schwartz, re-enters a painful childhood scene, offers validation, acceptance, and apology to her younger self, and invites her into a safe “heart space.”
  • Quote: “I have a little, like, bed I’ve made for her in my heart... There’s other parts that are there, but I haven’t brought her there.” — Sabrina Zohar (35:57)
• The exile's wariness about safety is honored; Schwartz emphasizes ongoing commitment and relationship with these parts.

Integrating Protective Parts

(38:07 – 39:02)

• Once the exile is safe and seen, formerly harsh protector parts relax and recognize their protective role is no longer necessary.
  • Quote: “They kind of all came in ready to attack, and then when they saw her there, they were like, oh, oh, she’s fine. Oh, she doesn't actually need us.” — Sabrina Zohar (38:23)

Reframing Common Struggles Through IFS

On “Self-Sabotage” and “Sabotaging Patterns”

(14:20 – 19:57; recurring theme)

• What we call “self-sabotage” is often just protection.
  • Quote: “Could that be self-protection? Could we find a space to understand?” — Sabrina Zohar (16:40)
• Healing occurs when we become the “primary attachment figure” for our own wounded parts, rather than relying on others (partners, parents, substances) to fill this role.
  • Quote: “When you can become the primary caretaker of those parts, then whatever partner you have... is freed up to be the secondary caretaker.” — Dick Schwartz (18:46)

How to Differentiate “Manager,” “Exile,” and Other Parts

(19:57 – 22:49)

• Sabrina struggles with differentiating parts in daily life.
• Dr. Schwartz: The key is curiosity—ask “who” is reacting, and explore with compassion, not judgment.

Techniques & Takeaways for Listeners

How to Start “Parts Work” or IFS By Yourself

• Start by naming and noticing inner feelings or dialogue (“the critic,” “the scared one”).
• Practice approaching these feelings with curiosity and compassion (not control or banishment).
  • Quote: “If you get curious about it and focus on it, the parts will tell you what’s going on with them. And so it’s not that hard.” — Dick Schwartz (39:46)
• Ask, “How do I feel toward this part?” If the feeling isn’t one of the C words, more curiosity and space are needed.

On Limerence and Obsessive Attachment

(42:48 – 45:21)

• Intense obsession (limerence) is an exile or protective part desperately seeking validation, not “adult” love.
  • Quote: “What I would do if you were in that state would be to find that obsessive part... and what’s it afraid would happen if it let go of this person?” — Dick Schwartz (43:44)

Navigating Relationships: When Your Partner’s “Parts” Are Activated

(45:21 – 46:49)

• Time-outs and self-focus: Instead of attacking your partner’s “parts,” take a break and do a “u-turn.” Attend to your own parts first, then return to communicate from Self.
  • Quote: “It is possible to kind of weaponize the model...But when you get into it with your partner...do a u-turn in your focus and just focus on the parts that have come up during the fight...” — Dick Schwartz (45:50)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Healing:
  “There’s nothing wrong with me…there’s cbt, there’s dbt…But what I love about IFS is that you’re teaching people how to understand yourself and be curious about what’s coming up for you, as opposed to, how can I change it?”
  — Sabrina Zohar (46:49)

• On Self-Compassion:
  “You promise?”
  — Sabrina’s inner child (34:35)

• On Self-Sabotage/Protection:
  “I know how to attack myself…I know how to hear my dad call names all the time. But to believe in myself would mean that I could actually achieve it. And it’s like, what do you mean I could actually achieve it?”
  — Sabrina Zohar (30:16)

Resources & Further Learning

• Dr. Schwartz’s Books:
  • No Bad Parts
  • You’re the One You’ve Been Waiting For
  • The IFS Workbook / Internal Family Systems Workbook
• IFS Institute: ifs-institute.com
• Videos: Numerous talks and guided exercises on YouTube
• Sabrina Zohar: @sabrina.zohar

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:55 – Dr. Schwartz’s therapy evolution and IFS origins
• 07:30 – The first breakthrough: Listening to the “cutting” part
• 13:14 – Sabrina’s emotional resonance; reframing “self-sabotage”
• 16:47 – How wounded “exiles” seek redemption in adult relationships
• 23:04 – Live IFS coaching session begins
• 27:21 – Reliving childhood exclusion and hurt
• 31:27 – Reparenting and rescue of the inner child
• 38:23 – Integration and softening of previously harsh parts
• 42:48 – Limerence, obsession, and IFS perspective
• 45:21 – Using IFS with partners
• 49:06 – Self-led healing and IFS as life practice

Conclusion

This deeply vulnerable episode blends theory, real-life application, and a demonstration of IFS in action. Dr. Schwartz’s approach—rooted in compassion, curiosity, and self-leadership—offers empowering tools for anyone struggling with relationships, self-sabotage, or anxiety, regardless of whether their pain has “big T” trauma roots or subtler wounds.

“Healing comes not from conquering your inner critics or exiling your pain, but from becoming the compassionate caretaker your wounded parts always needed.”