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The Sabrina Zohar Show
154: What You NEED To Know About Being Friends with An Ex, FWB and Dating A Friend
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You can make a difference in someone's life, including your own, with a job in home care. These jobs offer flexible schedules, health care, retirement options and free training. They also provide paid time off and opportunities for overtime. Visit oregonhomecarejobs.com to learn more and apply. That's oregonhomecarejobs.com hello, hello, hello and welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host, my babies. We're back. We're back. And today we're doing friendship part. Duh. But this is the non platonic friendship episode and I am going to be doing so many more different episodes. Like I want us to evolve. Not everything on the planet is anxious and avoidant. Anxious and avoidant. We have got to grow and evolve. So, so we're going to do that and we're going to talk about friends with benefits. Friendships. Do you stay friends after situationships? What? All of the stuff, all of the non platonic friendship stuff. So guys, as always, if you need anything, everything will be in the link in bio. If you want to join one of the courses, work one on one, ask a question. Whatever you guys need, there's some free guides in there. It's Sabrina Zohar.com all those resources are available. Whatever you guys need, please know they're there. And we are just so grateful. And as always guys, thank you for let showing up as you and allowing me to show up as me. So baby, without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Hello friends. I'm excited. I love our non traditional episodes and I really want to hit on the pain points the questions you guys asked. As always, if you guys don't follow the Sabrina Zohar show on insta, that's where I ask you guys questions. So if you want to participate in some of the episodes, when I say like an audience question, is this feel free. Anytime I do a question box you guys can send it in. Or of course inthetrenches@sabrina zohar.com if you guys have episode ideas, questions you want to send, screenshots, profile, whatever you guys need, don't forget. And as always we have ad free. Some of you guys have had issues with connecting your accounts. Please email us if you're having any issues. And we just want you to know that these resources are there. You don't have to do anything you don't want to. But before we start, I really quickly wanted to just touch on something that I read every review and Every single solitary comment. You guys might not think I do, but I do. And it hurts and breaks my heart when I sense and feel that maybe there's a disconnect between the content and what I'm putting out there and the way that it's being received. I get so many beautiful comments and so many beautiful reviews, and I'm so grateful. And then there's always the one. And there's been this recently where I've been getting kind of feels like the same person, perhaps, but just this. I don't like your tone and I don't like the way you're making me feel. And so I want to first take accountability and ownership. If I've ever had a way, a tonality, a way, an intent, whatever it is that has made you feel shitty, I have. That's never been my intention. And I sincerely apologize if anything I've ever done has ever made anybody feel in a specific way. But it's also part of the conversation that if my tone doesn't work for you, that is also okay. That doesn't mean I'm bad, you're good, or that you're bad and I'm good. That doesn't mean that anybody is right or wrong. And I just wanted everybody to know I'm here. And the reason I do all of this is because I genuinely care about you guys. It's not for the money, trust me, I don't make that much. It's not because I have nothing else to do with my time. I genuinely give a flying about every single person that listens, that engages, that comes, that is here. And if this is no longer your place, that's okay. I am so grateful for any time that you spent. But I just want you guys to know I take this really seriously. And so I so appreciate all the comments, all the reviews. But if you have something to say, feel free to email us. I am happy to talk directly if you guys ever need anything. I just want to remind that we are here to speak with kindness and love. And again, if my tone doesn't work, that's okay. But I'm not here to change who I am, to make everybody else more comfortable. But that doesn't mean that I'm a mean girl or that I'm doing anything out of malice or I'm hurting anybody. That just might mean that maybe we're not for each other. And that is more than okay. So I wanted to take a quick second to just acknowledge that. I hear you, I see you guys, and I get it. If I'M not for you. That's okay. I'm never going to change your mind. But I also want to just clarify and take any accountability and ownership on my part that that was never my intention. And I'm so grateful for anybody that is here and I thank you guys. I am doing everything I can to show up for me too, to have my back, to be here for me. And that also includes standing up for myself if I feel like I need and also apologizing when I feel like I need. So just wanted to talk about that. But today let's talk about the elephant in the room that nobody seems to want to address that most of your friendships with the opposite sex are, aren't actually friendships. And I know you're going to tell me about that. Like the one friend that you have from college who's just a friend, but statistically speaking, one of you has thought about sleeping with the other is keeping you as a backup or an option or secretly hoping for more. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just human nature. The problem is when we pretend that these dynamics don't exist and then we act shocked when things get messy. And here's what's interesting. 68% of couples do end up starting as friends first. But that doesn't mean you should force a friendship as a strategy. That's not what I'm saying. It's not like, you know, I've seen it where people will be like, oh, I don't want you to touch me or kiss me because I want to start off as friends first. No, no, no. Force it. Right. If you meet somebody on a dating app, well, you're probably not going to start off as friends. But I also think that there is an element of reality here that friendship is incredibly important. And what it means is that when romantic feelings develop naturally with an existing connection, it often works out. That's what the statistic is telling us. But when you manufacture these gray situations and areas, that's when the wheels fall off the car. And we're going to talk about those gray areas because I have DMS full of friends with benefits, dating, long term friends, staying with an ex, situationships. Because honestly, the messiest relationships, they are not the ones that are clearly romantic or clearly platonic. They're the ones that we are stuck in the middle when nobody actually knows what the fuck is happening. And that's why I wanted to talk today. I'm gonna, like I said, I'm gonna do more friendship episodes. If you guys like the friendship, the work, the family, the colleagues, the non romantic, let me know babies. And as always, if you need anything, don't forget we have the courses that help the self. Love corpse helps with everything. It's not just romantic, but I got you babies and we're gonna do more. I'm gonna create more stuff. So let's start with the biggie. I wanna start with the friends with benefits because despite what the movies tell you, this rarely work way that you think it is. So I actually pulled some new statistics for this episode because I really do. Like I said, I want to evolve the conversation. I want to talk about different things. So let's get the number straight. 15% success rate is what everybody quotes, right? It's a 15% success rate of people that start off as friends that end up moving from friends with benefits into more. But that's specifically for the people who wanted their friends with benefits to become romantic. So statistically speaking, 15% of friends with benefits turn in two more. Again, I know we're all going to have that story of the one friend that started off as a casual thing and then they ended up getting married and having kids. Like I'm sure they exist, but I'm not putting my mom. If I'm a betting woman, I'm not putting my money on it. The full picture is a bit more complex. After one year, 26% of people remained a friend with benefits, 28% successfully returned just to friends, and 31% ended all contacts. So it's not that friends with benefit inherently fails because of what it is, it's that it rarely becomes what people secretly hope it becomes. And that's, I think, the biggest issue. I will be honest. I had my heyday. I know friends with benefits well because I tried it in so many different ways and it never worked out for me because more often than not one person has feelings and the other one might not. And we try a lot of people. Like somebody actually asked me the other day when I was alive, should I try ethically non monogamous or friends with benefits? If I have anxious attachment style, maybe I should try something different. And I was like that. I don't think that's the answer. The answer isn't, well, what I want isn't working. So let me try doing something that very clearly is the polar opposite of what I want. I wouldn't suggest that for you guys. What I would say is I think it's about being really real and honest. I've had friends with benefits. I've had it Both ways I've had it where, like, there was this one guy and we would, like, we were the type of friends with benefits where we started off, where, like, he was in a band. I was 21. This was before Clemmie. This is BC for BC. This is BC before Clem. I love it. He's my BC. So this is before Clemmie when, like, I was going out all the time. Like, when I didn't have Clem, I was. My ho hat was waving in the fucking air. Like, I was always out. I was wasted off my ass. Like, that's why, like, it's not that I have a problem with alcohol. I just don't like. I don't personally like it, but I would just go out and drink and party and I would go out until all obscene hours of the night. And I met this guy and he was in a van and my friend was dating the friend and da da, da, da, da. And we started hooking up. And it was the type of thing where, like, I was 21, so I'm like, whatever, you know, who cares? Doesn't matter. And I think because he embodied a lot of characteristics that I enjoyed, right? Like, he was a free spirit. He was a musician, he was creative, he was really good. He was the lead singer, he was sexy. But, like, at its core, we were such polar opposites. Like, and not in a. Oh, opposites attract. Like, we didn't want the same things. He was a vagabond. He was like a gypsy. He is always, like, living couch to couch. And. And that's the thing. Like, there's nothing wrong with him. It's not like he was a bad guy. He's just like, I was a lot more grounded and I wanted different things in life. And when we first started hooking up and having fun, like, I couldn't just leave it at that. Even though at my core I didn't want more with him because. But I had convinced myself of, like, well, we're sleeping together, we have fun together, which means we should be in a relationship. Because I think at that time I didn't really understand, like, what's really involved in a healthy and secure relationship. I just thought it was two people that like each other and hang out, right? I didn't realize, like, what compatibility. It just took me time. I was just a kid. I didn't really understand that. And I remember approaching him after, like, a few months being like, I really want more. I don't want to just be friends. And he was honest. He was like, I See you as, like, one of my closest friends, but I don't see us as more. I just enjoy our time. And, like, years went by, we didn't hang out. Then we started, like, kind of fell back into it. I was like, 26, 27, like, and I remember we had a car and in New York, if, you know, you know, like, we would go upstate together, we would escape. Every, like, three or four would go on a trip together. And I remember, like, I enjoyed it. And, like, when he'd leave, I genuinely didn't feel anything. I was okay. And he just got to a point where, like, my mom always says it works until it doesn't. It worked until I got to a point where I was bored and I was like, this isn't what I want. Like, I want more than that. And years later, he was moving and he tried, and I remember he came over and, like, we hung out finally. And, like, it was so nice to reconnect. And when he left, he was like, you know, I'd love for us to be intimate one more time. And I was like, no, I'm good. I don't feel that for you. And I was like, I love you as a person, but you're not the person I want to be with. And I was just me taking. Being really real with myself of, like, I'm allowed to think that this person's amazing, but that doesn't mean it has to be my person. He would never have been because he. I think since then, he cheated on his girlfriend like, a million times. Because that's his thing, right? Like, I don't really speak to him anymore. And I've had it opposite ways where, like, friends with benefits want something with me, and I'm like, oh, I don't see you like that. I just. Honestly, I was just. I wanted to get my rocks off. And that doesn't last long. And then we have something called the oxytocin problem and why it hits harder for women. And here's kind of what nobody tells you about casual sex is that your brain know it's supposed to be casual. So every time we're physically intimate with someone, your brain releases oxytocin and it's a bonding hormone. Here's the wild part. Oxytocin affects men and women differently. So women show enhanced sensitivity to positive social cues and are more susceptible to unwanted bonding and casual encounters. That's why casual doesn't necessarily work with women. And that's. Okay. Let me also preface. When I met Ryan and I hooked up with him that was cuz your girl hadn't gotten laid in months. So, like, you're also a human. You're allowed to say like, oh, I just need to have fun. But why do you think when Ryan and I left, I said to him, I don't do the casual thing. I'm not going to be your hookup buddy. I'm not doing the friends with benefits thing. I was like, that doesn't work for me. Because men, especially with the existing primary relationships, actually have neurobiological production against forming new attachments. So this isn't about women being weaker. It's understanding that our biology might be working against casual interactions and intentions, which is why casual works better for guys than it does for girls. And again, I want to preface, I'm not trying to be non binary, I am not trying to say that there are only men and women. But what I'm saying is, biologically, when we're looking at that, however you identify, it's the same as the conversation I get of like, my partner has female friends, is that allowed? And when I tried to say, well, but they're chromosomes, right? Someone called me transphobic and I was like, I am not trying to be. But what I am saying is, even if we include all of the pronouns and all of those, there are still not. It's not the animal kingdom. We don't have 17,000 different species. We have men, we have women, we have they. We might have people that identify differently, but there's only so many people in that category is all I'm trying to say. I am not trying to exclude anybody when I say things like that. But there's only so many people that you can want your partner to hang out with. And I want my partner to have different perspectives. I love that. The other day, Ryan went out to lunch with an old colleague of his. I was a woman and I had Scott that called me and took up three hours of my day as a man. Neither one of us care. And so that's all I'm saying is that when we're talking biologically, I don't care how you identify. I respect every single person. But it affects and impacts. If you are born and identify as male or female, it's going to impact you because of biology, not because of me. Coming up with norms this episode is sponsored by idou. Do you feel stuck in your career and worried? Your team can tell? I mean, for me, that was my journey, y'. All. I felt so stuck. I just wasn't satisfied. 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Go to idou.com sabrina that's I d e o u.com sabrina for 15 off again I d e o u.com Sabrina so there are seven types of friend with benefits. And research actually identifies the seven distinct ones, not just three, casual, that most people think. So there is true friends, that is genuine friendship with added benefits. Okay, that is the what we think it being. Then there's the second, which is just sex. It's a physical connection without any emotional investment. We have all had those people that you come over, you hook up and they fucking leave. Then there's something called network opportunism. And so it's convenient access through social circles. Right? A friend of a friend, oh well, they're there, so I'll just hook up with them because they're there. Then we have something called successful transition. It evolves into romantic relationships. And this is the most rare. This is why I'm saying if I were a betting woman, I wouldn't be betting on successful transition. Going from friends with benefits casual into of a sudden becoming the love of your life. Then there's type five, unintentional transition. That's developing feelings accidentally, which it can happen. We have all been there where all of a sudden you're like, oh, I started off not liking this person and now I'm crazy about them. That's okay, you're a human. And then there's failed transition, hoped for more, didn't happen. And then type 7, which is transition out clean, ending to pursue other relationships, which is what happened with my friend that I was telling you about. And understanding which you're in helps predict the outcomes and set appropriate expectations. And the reason I'm saying again, I'm not trying to be like, this never works. I don't have a crystal ball. But if you're going to ask me based on data, based on facts, and based on history and statistical data, I'm not going to put my money on it. And here's why. It doesn't usually transition. So the intimacy is backwards. You're having the intimacy of a relationship without the emotional foundation. And that's the problem is when you start with, it's just physical, physical, physical. And like, that was me. That was part of my trauma, was, if I connect with you physically, you're never going to leave me because why wouldn't you want me? Right? That was like, movies and pop culture that caught me into, like, if you could just get him. Like, we were watching Road Trip the other night, and the girl, like, the guy's telling her, I don't know if you guys have seen it. The guy's telling her how, like, he's getting over his ex and all this, and she's like, oh, well, maybe I can distract you. And they hook up, and then she's, like, crazy about him and all these things, and they're right for each other, and they end up dating for years. And you're like, that's very rarely how that works out. Very rarely do you meet somebody who is trying to get over an ex, hook up with them, and then all of a sudden they realize that you're the one for them, go break up with the ex and come back for you. And now you're off to the sunset. Like, I'd love it to work out. It just doesn'. It doesn't happen as often because it's just not. Humans work. We have also something called attachment styles at clash. So secure types need definition, avoidant types resist it. And same with the anxious folks. They need the definition. Gender differences in bonding. Again, that neurobiological response to casual intimacy is different. That's why a lot of people combat this differently. It's not. Again, it doesn't mean that you're set in stone. Me and Ryan had different circumstances, but that's also because we were very clear. And for a lot of people, it becomes a substitute. Instead of seeking real connection, you'll settle for the pseudo intimacy. And that's also kind of why I'm like, don't do something that doesn't feel like it aligns with who you really are. And research shows that successful Friends with Benefits relationships establish clear rules in these categories, the first one being Honesty. It requires regular check ins about feelings, expectations. Not just like once every fucking six months. And honestly I'm exhausted by the. If I don't say anything then maybe it's gonna work out. That's you playing small. And when you try to play the cool girl or guy, you're gonna get left behind because those people, the reason the nice guy finishes last and the cool girl doesn ever get the relationship is because they're one dimensional. You are not a one dimensional person. You have needs. So take them. Take up the space of having the conversations about what it is that you want to need. Stop trying to pretend you're this version of you that doesn't exist. Because at the end you're going to cry now or you'll cry later, baby. And you get to decide the second thing. Emotional restrictions. You define what emotional intimacy is off limit. So no deep like you don't get to have these late night conversations about your childhood trauma. Texting each other morning and night, but then they say oh, but I don't want anything. That's where you also get to say no baby. Boundaries. We need to protect ourselves. Sexual exclusivity being the third rule. Are you exclusively physical? If not, what are the disclosure requirements? Does that mean that you have to tell each other when you sleep with somebody else? Does that mean that you have to use protection? Do you trust this person? Are you guys getting tested? Whatever it is, do what feels comfortable. Communication guidelines. How often do you text? What constitutes relationship behaviors versus friends with benefits? That's why actions speak louder than words is not applicable. Actions don't speak louder than words because I want them to align. That's the loudest they'll speak. I could say all day I don't want a relationship, but I'll treat you like a partner. Well, that's confusing. Rule 5 Social boundaries. Do you hang out in groups? Do you meet at each other's friends? Are you acting coupley out in public? These are things that are really important. Like with my friend that I was explaining to the story I shared with you. We didn't do the public pda. Like we weren't kissing and cuddling out in public because we weren't anything. We were. At the end of the night, we went home with each other and we hooked up or we hung out in private. That was the agreement that we had. What are the termination this Rule 6, what are the termination protocols? What happens when one person wants to date somebody else? When someone develops feelings, plan for it. Here's the thing I learned when I started my business have your exit strategy. Because my partner always told me, he's like, everything seems lovely and fine when you're in it until you're not anymore and until you got to figure out your way out. And then when to end a friend with benefit. When someone doesn't want more, when it's preventing you from finding real connections, when you're using it to avoid dealing with your intimacy issues, when your friendship part disappears and it's just about sex, when you find yourself checking their social media obsessively is really important. That's when you have to say, whoa, I don't think this is healthy for me anymore. And someone had asked you tell your date to have a friend with benefit if they ask you that you're seeing someone else. Yeah. If someone asks you if you're seeing someone else, then I would be honest of like, oh, yeah. I have somebody that, like, I'm. I'm a friend with benefits with, like, we just do. But I'm ready to end that when I start to be physical with somebody else. But I have somebody that. That's why I'm not looking for that. Is it possible for friends with benefits to ever become a real relationship? Yeah, about 15% of the time. So that's what I mean is, like, both people have to genuinely have the bandwidth and the chops for it. It requires both people to completely restart the relationship dynamic and build emotional intimacy from scratch. And most people can't make that much of a transition successfully because the foundation is physical, not emotional. Now let's talk about dating your friend because I want to talk about the odds of that. So the psychology of friend to lover transition. Now here's the encouraging news. 68. Now can we talk about, like, Love island? Right Whenever this comes out? Nicolandria 68 of romantic couples started as friends first. Now, that's not rare. It's actually the most common pathway to a lasting relationship. The difference is whether the transition happens naturally or is forced. And that's part of what I'm saying. Friends first. Relationships actually built in attachment security. You already know each other's communication styles, conflict resolution patterns, and daily behaviors. You've seen each other in various contexts and moods. This reduces the anxiety and uncertainty that plagues early dating. Successful friend to lover transitions happen when both people have had some level of attraction. Even if it's unknowledge, even if no one unacknowledged, like, even if no one said anything, there's that baseline. The friendship is genuinely strong and mutually respectful and Compatible and both people are emotionally available for the relationship. Plus, the timing has to be right. Like, there's also a natural catalyst that brings the possibility to light for this to happen. Because again, my point being is if it happens naturally, all of a sudden you realize you're like, oh, I like my friend. Or like again, where you start to realize that you have this foundation, great, but don't force it. You don't meet someone out of the bar and be like, oh, by the way, but I want to start off as friends. It's like, no, you can go slow in that regard, but you're allowed to get to know somebody in different levels. And the other side of the flip coin too is I hear this all the time. It's like we were best friends for 15 years and then we started dating and now they're doing all these things and it's like, like you only know a friend to a certain capacity because you're not being triggered in the same ways. Please don't be shocked if you do start dating a friend if you start to realize they have different parts of them you never knew because you might not have been triggering them in those ways. There is nothing that's going to trigger you like a romantic relation or like your caregiver parent relationship, like a romantical relationship. That's why friends and colleagues and all of those things and family don't trigger you as much as romantic. They bring you right back to feeling like a kid. This episode is sponsored by Function Health. I'm a big fan of function. I'm a big fan of taking care of your health because whether you are sending the kids back to school, you're stepping into a busier season of life. It's time to recalibrate. You have to see what your immune system needs to fill in the gaps early. Otherwise what happens when you wait too long? You get to the burnout. And the biomarkers that we have to start to look at are like vitamin D, vitamin E, zinc, ferritin. These are all aspects that not to forget cortisol, right? It tells you if stress may be dragging your immunity down. These are all things that function test because they test over a hundred and sixty biomarkers from heart and hormones to toxins, inflammation and stress, all of it. And plus you can access multi region MRI and CT scans, all tracked in one secure place. Over time, it's just an enhanced view of what's happening in your body. Y'. All, I am obsessed. This is what I've been using every single time. I need blood work. I always go to function because I know that I'm getting such an incredible deal for all of the testing that I have never been able to get outside of this. So guys, learn more and join using my link. It's visit www.function functionhealth.com Sabrina Again, that's functionhealth.com Sabrina this episode is sponsored by Better Help. Guys, I know there's a lot of confusing whether it be dating advice, whether it be health and wellness advice. The Internet is full of it and it can feel really overwhelming because oftentimes you don't really know what's true and what's not and how to take action. And that's why I love BetterHelp. You can use a trusted source and talk to a live therapist that can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise. I've been in therapy specifically on BetterHelp since my breakup in 2018 and it has changed the game for me and it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. Plus, it's convenient. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time, which gives you a lot of flexibility and freedom over your healing. So as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Piece Talk it out with better help our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com Sabrina that's better. H E L P.com Sabrina now here's some red flags I want us to look out for when we're dating a friend. One is you are rebounding from another relationship. Please stop your friends when you're doing that. Stop having sex with people because you just got out of something. You're doing it because you're lonely, not because you're genuinely excited about them. It's going to make you feel even more alone. The attraction feels forced or like you're trying to talk yourself into it. Been there, done that. Stop convincing yourself you have different relationship goals, right? You want something serious, serious or casual. They want something serious or casual. And it's the opposite. Stop trying to pretend or your friend group would be rude about it, right? Like, especially if you know that you only want to be casual with them or not. Like, don't make it awkward for the group just because of your selfish needs. And I'm not saying you I mean, whoever. And also, you're hoping dating will fix the problems in the friendship. Baby, please don't. So if you actually want to have a successful transition, I need you to be having an honest conversation. I've been thinking about us differently lately and I wanted to be honest about that. I don't want to assume that you feel the same way, but I'd be interested in exploring something romantic if you are. Don't do the slow fade from friendship, hoping they're just gonna f Cking get the hint. Please don't start acting coupley without a discussion. Don't all of a sudden start grabbing their hand in public and are like, what the fck? Be direct. Second thing, take it slow. Even though you know each other, romantic dynamics are different. That's what I was just saying. Give yourself time to adjust. Just because you're friends does not mean it's going to translate. And the third thing, Protect your friendship the most. You can have a conversation about what happens if this doesn't work out romantically. Can you realistically go back to being friends? Want to? I need you to be honest about that because that's, I think, where people fall short. It's the same with like dating a colleague, which we will get to that in another episode. Think about future you and be really real about it. Like, and that's why sometimes we have to stop. And then the second thing too is if they don't reciprocate, don't kid yourself. I get those. Like, should I stay friends with them? They don't want anything with me. It's like, we're going to get to that after about staying friends with an ex. But that still falls at. If you're having a friend and you're really romantically feeling it and they're not matching that that. And you're like, it hurts me to see this person and be around them, then please stop kidding yourself. Then maybe it doesn't mean you have to stop being friends with them. Maybe take some time. Take some time to also assess. What do I like about this person if they're not reciprocating, right? Like, if they don't feel what I feel, then what am I into? Is it the idea of them or what I'm building? Yada yada. Someone asked, what do I do if I'm falling for the guy you're house sharing with? Now this is high risk because if you're living situation, it's going to complicate everything. So before making any moves, I would have a plan for if this goes bad, who's going to move out? Can you handle seeing them date other people? If the answer is no on either, I wouldn't pursue it. I would not. Because we have to think of future you. And that's part of this. Of like, okay, if this doesn't work, well, am I okay to lose a friend? Or maybe were we ever friends to begin with? Or was one of us always hoping the other person was going to want to fuck? Right. And some of the same about, like, dating a friend that you've known for years. The advantage is you already know each other well and you have an established trust. But the disadvantage is that if it doesn't work, you risk losing the friend. So again, is this a potential relationship that you are worth losing and we're losing the friendship? Sometimes, yes, sometimes. Sometimes people are like, I don't give a fuck. I'd rather try this out. And then if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But don't let the loss of, like, the fear of loss prevent you from exploring that genuine connection. So another question. How can I get over him now that he's moving away and I caught feelings? Well, this is actually kind of good news disguised as bad. The physical distance will help you process the feelings without the constant reminder that they're there and treat it like any other unrequited crush. Feel the feelings, right? Allow yourself to be sad and be bummed. You're okay. You don't need to maintain the intensity through long distance communication and force it and focus on other connections. Who else are you able to explore? What else are you able to explore? And where else are you able to create new connections with people so that you're not just focused on this one? Because more often than not, the good floats to the top, the bad sinks to the bottom, and we start to idealize this person and we create this entire narrative. And that's why we become obsessive with people. And typically because they didn't create safety. Because if you were really safe with them, then you guys would be able to have conversations. Okay, let's get to the biggie. Should you stay friends after a breakup? I hear this all the fucking time. So the short answer is sometimes, but probably not in the way most people think. So let's talk about the psychology. When a romantic relationship ends, your attachment style doesn't immediately recognize that this person is just a friend. Because remember, did your nervous system recognize that your parents were unavailable, have the bandwidth and the tools to show up? No, it just identified that you Were scared that you were going to be left this person still encoded in your brain as a romantic attachment figure. Which is why seeing them can trigger all those emotional responses even months later. And so we have to kind of break down the four types of ex friendships. And I also hear this too all the time of like, well my, you know, somebody I'm dating is has an ex in their life and it's like this is what we need to start to look at. What type of friend are there? The first one is security based friendship. You stay friends because they provide you emotional comfort and you genuinely care about their well being. This has the best success rate. This was me and my ex. My ex, I owe talk about him like the Ken doll from a few years ago. Like he's so good looking and handsome but he looked like a Kendall. Blonde, tall, chiseled blue eyes, very not my type but like he was just such a great guy. And we stayed friends with each other after because we genuinely cared about each other. We genuinely said we are not right for each other. Both of us looked at each other that night, felt the same, cried in each other's arms. Love each other as people, but we're like, we don't. He ended up moving on. Like I'm so grateful. The lives that both of us have were not the ones that we would have wanted with each other. And when we ended it like we stayed friends until my ex and I got together like a year later and he was like, hey, I don't feel comfortable with this. And I was like, okay, I'll respect it. And my ex, the other guy, he found out he had a new girlfriend and we both kind of just agreed like let's just move on with our lives. I don't need to be friends with someone I slept with. The second type of is unresolved romantic desire where one or both people stays friends hoping to eventually get back. This creates the longest lasting friendship but also the most psychological distress because you're not being real with yourself so you'll be friends. Oh, I care so much. I care so much. Cuz you're still trying to get back into their good graces of like. But maybe if they just maybe if they realize like I don't add any pressure and I'm just like super cool. I look really hot. Oh baby, I've been there and I've done that. I've tried to stay friends with guys after and I end up being the one that hurt, not them. Because you can't you try to play the cool girl. And do all that and then you get in and then all of a sudden you seem with another girl and you're. Or guy or they. And you're like, it never works out in the way that you want. The third one, practical friendship. You stay connected due to shared social circles like your friends, work, relationships, co parenting, and this both like, this works when both of you guys have accepted the practical nature. So when both people are like, hey, we don't need to make this anything. It's not. I don't really care for you, you don't really care for me or whatever. Right? Like, we're good. We're just going to be cordial. I see you out. Hey, how you doing? We all have those people. It doesn't need to be anything more. And the last one, civility friendship. You maintain respectful contact to prove you're mature and can handle it. This usually burns out once the ego need is satisfied. And I see that all the time. There's a lot of people, like, I don't want them to think I'm anything. And you're like, all right, stay as long as you want then. And the reason, like when it actually works out is when you broke up due to circumstances. Maybe it's distance, timing, not fundamental incompatibility. That's when you can still be friends because you're like, hey, I love you as a person, but I, I just don't think it's the right timing. You're both like, okay, both people have completely processed the relationship and moved on emotionally. That's a huge thing thing. And that's something that we need to hold space for. If you have not actually moved on from this relationship and genuinely processed it, or that you can genuinely celebrate each other's new relationship without jealousy, the fact that this friendship might add value to your lives without drama, then don't do it. Don't do it to try to prove something to yourself. It's never going to work. And also when neither person uses the friendship to monitor the other's dating life, you don't stay friends with someone to be like, so who are you? Like, are you, you seeing anybody? No. Move on with your life, baby. And here's something that research shows now, again, I'm talking about research show that men are more likely to stay friends with their exers for unresolved romantic reasons, while women are more likely to stay friends for practical or security reasons. Women are also more like or have reported more negative effects from ex friendships, including interference with new relationships. So again, I don't care where you fall on the spectrum. I'm just giving you the signs. And the reason it doesn't work is because usually one person wants to get back with you. Other you broke up, like, due to like betrayal or abuse or like major incompatibility. You're staying connected prevents either of you from moving on. Your new partners are uncomfortable with the friendship and they have valid reasons. Right. This isn't just I don't like it. Right. It's more about like, oh, it's inappropriate. Or you guys are to get like, I don't know if you guys watch 90 Day Fiance. Tim and Veronica like it. At that point you're just like, that's not appropriate. Like, why are you and your ex in bed together watching a movie? Like, I don't like that. Versus is, you know, hey, all right, like, you guys are maintaining it for the kids. Okay, like that I get. And the friendship is really just an excuse to stay emotionally tethered. I hear that all the time. My ex, my ex. And then it's like, let me know they start sleeping together. My non negotiable has always been, you need to be done with your ex. I am tired of this. Like, I'm still hung up. I'm not ready to move on. It's like, that's okay. I will meet you where you're at, but don't date me. Be honest about that from the beginning. It's a huge non negotiable. I have always had and it's never led me wrong because, baby, I saved myself a lot of times. Tears. This episode is sponsored by Momentous. We take so much care of our mental health, but what about our physical health? It is so important to take the right supplementation to eat the right foods. That's also what really helps with anxiety, depression, all of these aspects is really how we treat ourselves inside and out. And I love momentous because it's not a multivitamin. It's a foundational system with iron, calcium and vitamin D3 in their most bioavailable forms. So these are three nutrients that are often overlooked but critical for energy, bone health recovery, and on top of of it, resilience. What I love about it is it's smart dosing protocol. So in the AM you take iron plus a B complex with vitamin C and then in the PM, you take calcium and vitamin D3 with olive oil. And the AM and PM doses are optimized to avoid nutrient interference and boost absorption. Guys, this is also super important because for a lot of us, we don't Know where to start. And I totally get that. And that's why I love Momentous. The women's three from Momentous. Because it's simple science. Back system created with Dr. Stacy Sims, who's one of the world's leading experts in female physiology. I am so excited. Guys, check it out. And you can, because you can, head to livemomentous.com and use code Sabrina for up to 35 off your first order. Again, that's Sabrina. Livemomentous.com for up to 35 off your first order. Someone said, should you try to be friends with nice people who break up with you? You don't have to just because they're nice. If you need time to process and detail. Catch. Take the time. You don't have to attempt a friendship just because they're a good person. Maybe later, right? Maybe you can say for now that's not actually going to work, but only if you actually want to be their friend, not because you're hoping you're going to get back together. That's something that we have to be really real of. You know who I'm friends with. If I've gone on a date with you and we weren't physical, Ryan has met guys that I've gone out with dates with, and he's like, oh, I could totally see why this didn't work out. It's like, because we never even kissed. We didn't hold hands at nothing. We two people that thought each other were cute went out and go, that's not for me. Okay, fine. Someone said, when is it worth staying friends versus letting go? Stay friends. If the breakup was amicable, if you've moved on, if you're both, like, genuinely friends or maybe you were friends before you started dating and the friendship adds value without drama. But let go if there's unresolved feelings. The breakup was messy. You're staying connected to prevent you from moving forward. This is not gonna work. It's not gonna work. Someone said, why would he say, let's be friends with an unfollow you. Okay, A lot of people say let's be friends because they're trying to be nice and they don't want to feel guilty when they end things. It's not because they actually want to be friends. It's a way to soften the blow. And the unfollowing suggests he realized. He realized maintaining contact wasn't healthy or realistic, which is actually more honest than pretending. Let him go. You're allowed to be bummed of, like, oh, man, I actually Thought we were gonna be friends. Doesn't mean you need to pretend. And then lastly, I want to talk about situationships. This has a. This situation chips. We have episodes on it if you guys want more. But I figured let's talk about it briefly since we're talking. A situationship is a relationship with emotional and physical intimacy, but without clear commitment labels or future planning. And it's more than friends with benefits because there's genuine emotional connection, but less than dating because there's no progression or exclusivity. And here's a real reality. 50% of people, 50% of people aged 18 to 29 are currently in situationships. This isn't just casual dating. It's become the primary way a lot of young adults are kind of relating to each other. And here's the thing, it's making the miserable. Research shows that 77% of Gen Z report being ghosted. And these ambiguous relationships correlate strongly with anxiety, hyper vigilance, and even emotional abuse patterns. And the reason that I keep saying is like, you want to on focus, get out of a situationship. You gotta start communicating. And then we hear people, oh, I don't want to be too much, I don't want to be this. And it's like. And then you wonder why 77% of people aren't are unhappy. So there's something called the ambiguous loss problem. And I want it again. I wanted to bring some new stuff. So psychologist Pauline Boss talks about ambiguous loss. So it's a grief that occurs when someone is physically present but psychologically absent or vice versa. And that perfectly describes situationships. So your situationship is psychologically present but romantically absent. So your brain doesn't know how to process this. So you end up in emotional limbo. You're experiencing attachment without security, intimacy without commitment. And that's why situationships feel so hard to get over, because you're creating a lot of narratives. You don't actually have facts to back it up. And why people choose situationships, commitment, fear and anxiety. It's a fear of being trapped or making the wrong choice. So it's cool. I'll go with the flow, right? Dating app culture creates this endless fear of settling. Also economic instability, feeling unprepared for traditional relationship milestones, like having kids, buying a house. Like, let's be honest, a lot of us don't know that reality. Previous relationship trauma, using ambiguity as protection from heart or avoidance of vulnerability. Right? Like you get some of the benefits without the emotional risk and it really then kind of stifles your growth. And when you repeatedly experience emotional intimacy without security, you develop hypervigilance. You're constantly scanning for signs of abandonment or rejection. And research shows why this is concerning. And it's concerning because of strong correlations with narcissistic traits and emotional manipulation. That's why a lot of people can get into those situationships. Increased rates of anxiety, hyper vigilance and depression. Duh. I don't think that's shocking. Difficulty forming secure attachments later in life and perpetual dissatisfaction and fear of missing out because you're constantly over, always waiting for the next. And the reason that they work out temporarily is because both people are genuinely content with ambiguity. Nobody needs that because one might be fear, the other might be fear. Right? They're using it as like a transition between relationships. It's just a placeholder or you're focused on other priorities and dating isn't to focus. Both people have. You could be two secure people with great communication. But that's what I mean by like typically speaking, if you're two secure people and have good communication, then you're not going to be in a situationship. You will be determining that, hey, this is more of a casual thing for you, for me. But then you're going to be clear about it. And when they don't work, duh. When one person wants more commitment than the other, you're not being honest yourself. Abandoning when you're using the ambiguity to avoid the different conversations. That's what I mean by stop with the I just want to go with the flow. Going with the flow. Where the is the flow taking me? No, baby. And we have to stop if this is your default pattern. Especially like it's preventing you from developing relational skills. So if you really want to break this, I need you to be honest about one. What are you avoiding? Commitment, vulnerability, conflict. What are you avoiding? Talking, you not saying what you want. How is that protecting you? Practice direct communication about your wants and needs and set timelines. Hey, if we don't have some kind of progress in the next three months, like then I'm gonna have to move on and honestly learn to tolerate the discomfort of clear boundaries. Because at the end of the day part of setting boundaries is grieving. And maybe that means going to therapy, talking to a coach, joining one of the courses, whatever you guys need, you guys know where you here and here's how you can actually handle them like some real tools. And I'm going to go like attachment style specific. If you're securely attached, trust your need for clarity and Definition, don't convince yourself that you should be okay with the ambiguity. Use your communication skills to address the issues directly. And again, set timelines for relation progress and have conversations. If you're anxiously attached, I want you to recognize that ambiguous relationships are going to trigger your anxiety. Then we need to practice self soothing instead of seeking reassurance from the other person. That's why I have the free guide link in bio and Masha and I have the nervous system course. What Whatever you guys need. Avoid overanalyzing mixed signals. You're not helping yourself. You're just staying caught in your loops. And consider whether this casual relationship serves your emotional needs. And lastly, if you're avoidant attached, one notice when you're using ambiguity to avoid intimacy. Start practicing expressing your feelings without being withdrawn. And be honest about your commitment capacity. Stop leading people on when you want more than you can give. And then lastly, for my disorganized, fearful avoidant, these relationships might feel familiar, but they're more likely retraumatizing you because of the ambiguity. Focus on healing. Work before engaging in complex relationship dynamics and seek relationships with clear, consistent communication. And again, consider like, if you need professional help, there's therapy. There are all these different tools and modalities. Whatever you guys need and something that you can do if you want to end with a friend with benefit. I've been thinking about what I want life right now. And I think it's time for us to end the physical part of our relationship. I've really enjoyed our connection, but I'm ready to focus on finding something more serious. Right? And if you don't want to stay friends with an ex. I care about you, but I actually think it's healthier for both of us to have some space rather than trying to be friends right now. And I truly wish you all time the the best. It's really beautiful when you can speak up. It's really beautiful when you can say like, that doesn't work for me. And if you're catching feelings, I know we agreed to keep this casual, but I'm actually developing feelings that I didn't expect that go beyond what we originally discussed and I need to be honest about that and figure out what that means for me. And lastly, if you're in a situationship, you're my babies. I've been thinking about where we're heading and I'd like to talk about that. What we both want from this. I'm enjoying what we have, but I need to understand if we're on the same page about things. God, guys. Gain clarity. Gain clarity. Let's get some audience questions. How do emotionally unavailable men become available? Or people usually through therapy. Or it could be significant life experiences that force growth, like Ryan losing his sister, me losing Clem, or consequences that make them realize their patterns aren't working. You can't fix someone's emotional unavailability. They have to have the bandwidth and desire to change. And I don't want you to hope and wait that thinking that you're going to be the exception because you're probably not going to be. And if you are consistently dating emotionally unavailable people, we have to look at our own emotional unavailability. Because if we're waiting to be a placeholder in someone's life, then we're not taking space up in our own. So month into dating someone, but he still wants freedom to date others. Give it time or not. For me, it also depends on how many dates. If you've had two dates in the month, not enough time, but I would say if you've had 9, 10, 11, or like anywhere between like 8. If you've seen each other twice a week and they're still saying they want to keep their options open, then what they might just be telling you right now is like, I'm just, I'm not feeling for you what it is that I want. You can decide if you want to keep seeing them. Maybe you give it another couple of weeks of like, like, all right, let's give it another month, let's see if we grow and progress. And if not, let's just be honest. And maybe that's also being honest with them of like, all right, do you want to keep dating? Because if they're like, yeah, I genuine like with me, with Ryan, I liked him, but I wasn't ready to commit to him after a month. I was like, dude, I don't really know you, I need more. And I was very clear about why I couldn't. There's a difference between I feel like I don't know you well enough and I need to see these parts and I just want to see what else is out there. Cuz then you're like, oh, if you just want to see what else is out there, then thanks. No thanks. So how do you process losing a friend when you both fall in love but it doesn't work out, baby, you got to grieve it like any other loss. You lost both a romantic possibility and a friendship. So please don't minify as that and give yourself time to feel sad about it without trying to move on or force your closure. Sometimes the best friendships can't survive the romantic like shit. And that's fucking okay. That's okay. And for if you keep dating these types of people that are unavailable, like does this feel familiar or safe? Exciting? Often we're drawn to people that are unavailable because it's similar to the upbringing that we have. So we need to look at the difference between chemistry and compatibility. Chemistry often comes from anxiety and uncertainty while compatibility comes from shared values and consistency behavior. So what I want you to understand about kind of all this stuff is like none of these relationships are inherently bad, but they require an insane amount of radical honesty. And most of the pain in these situations comes from people who aren't being honest with themselves or the other person. And that's actually they're not being real about what they want and what's actually happening. So we need to stop using ambiguity and as a safety net or like we're just friends when you want more. Like we're just hooking up when you're look hoping for a relationship, we're just staying in touch when you're not over your ex. Like ambiguity feels safer because it protects you from direct rejection. But it also prevents you from getting what you actually actually want. And then there's something called the sun cost fallacy. Just because you've invested time doesn't mean you should keep investing more. Well, we've been hooking up for six months, so surely it means something. Oh baby, we've been friends for years so dating could work. We've been working together for you. No, no, economics teaches us about this unc cost fallacy. Continuing to invest in something because you've already invested so much even when it's not working. This happens constantly in undefined relationships. Your time and emotional energy are finite resources and every month you spend into situationship is a month you're not available for someone who actually gives a about you. Every year you spend maintaining a friendship with ex who keeps you emotionally tethered is a year you're not fully present for new relationships. It's okay for you to want what you want. If you want a relationship, stop accepting casual relationships hoping they're going to turn into more. If you want casual, stop feeling guilty about not wanting more. If you don't want to be friends with your ex, it doesn't make you a bad person. The most loving thing you could do is be honest for yourself and for you and for every person you are involved in. Because then baby, then you know your side of the street. Street is clean. So think about your gray area relationships. Are you being honest about what you want? Are you accepting something that doesn't actually serve you? Are you being fair to the other person? And if something needs to change, change it. If a conversation needs to happen, then have it. If a situation needs to end, end it. Your future self is gonna thank you. I love you guys as always. You guys know if you need anything, I am here. You can join one of the courses. Lincoln Bio. Everything's@sabrinazor.com you can work with me one on one. My book's not out until next year. I mean by the time everyone's listening to this so I got some time. My babies, whatever you guys need. And all courses include free group coaching. So if you guys are not part of the telegram group, email us. And again, if you guys have subscribed to AD free, we have gotten people that'll email us like really angry being like I never received it. I want my money back. And we're like, hey, we never heard from you. Please let us know. We are here. Support Sabrina Zohar.com anything you guys need. You're not alone. We are here. Especially if you paid for something and you need help with it, baby, you contact me. We're going to get this rectified for you. So please know we are. Anything you guys need. Don't forget rate, review the show, leave a comment, share it with a friend, all we ask and follow along on the socials if you want more stuff. All right babies, until next week. I love you guys. Let me know at what other friend episodes you want and we will continue the conversation next time.
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Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Spooky season is quickly approaching, so time to stock up on all your favorite treats now through October 7th, you can get early savings on your Halloween candy favorites when you shop in store and online. Save on items like Hershey's, Reese's Pumpkins, Snickers miniatures, Tootsie Rolls, raw sugar, milk chocolate, caramel, Jack O Lanterns, Brock's Candy Corn Charms, Mini Pops, and more. Offer ends October 7th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.
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