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Guys, I cannot believe it's been over a year now since I got to start my own show. Never thought I would do that. The Sage Steel Show. Thanks to those of you who have already subscribed, please do. If you haven't and liked and commented because your opinions always have mattered to me. And now more than ever, I will admit, almost 30 years at network television in that whole corporate world, I never thought I'd have my own show, and I really never wanted it. And then life changes. And I cannot imagine going back to that now because the fact that I get to choose my guests and sit down and talk to them and learn their why, that's what's missing in our country. That's what I've always said is lack of conversation. That's what I get to have now. And there have been so many awesome moments with. I think we're up to 60 different shows, 60 guests, lot of laughter, few tears along the way. Yeah, I've cried a lot. And I've screwed up a few times, too. And listen, the very first show out of the gate with the one and only my friend, Dana White. I obviously knew I was talking to Dana. I booked him. He's my friend and I screwed up. And I called him Joe Rogan. And Dana, still to this day, sends me clips, the millions of views of me screwing up. I mean, please, I call my kids the wrong name sometimes. So I'll never be forgiven for that. And that is okay. This is an anniversary episode from all clips of all 60 of my first episodes of the Sage Steel Show. And yes, we are starting with my screw up on show one with Dana White. Enjoy Shin. What's Joe Rogan's dream? What's Joe Rogan's dream? Joe Rogan, Dana White. What's Dana White's dream? Did you just think that was Joe Rogan? I totally did. She just called me fucking Joe Rogan. You thought I was fucking Joe Rogan? Yeah, I thought you were Joe. Joe Rogan. I was bald before Joe was ever bald. Okay, I know. Listen to me. Joe Rogan and Dana White are literally the only two. So listen to this. I will be that. I have the. Wait, let me finish. I have the respect for. Because of how you freaking stood up and support others. So forgive that. But wait, so I will be walking down the street and people say, oh, my God, can I get a picture with you? And I'm like, yeah. What do they say? I love your podcast. I watch every one of them. They think they just took a fucking picture with Joe Rogan. Do you correct them? No, I just let them go show everybody they're Joe Rogan. Then they're gonna go look at, watch Joe Rogan. Be like, wait, I just did a two hour fucking podcast. I flew here from Vegas. And she thought she was interviewing Joe Rogan. Jesus, I'm done. I'm done. Whole time, obviously, like, does someone. Oh, yeah, I did that. And we love Adam here. You said, I didn't know that this is going to have to be a change of life. This meaning the mandates and the vaccine and all of what happened during COVID I didn't know this was gonna have to be a change of life. You know, all of a sudden that during a time I'm supposed to be relaxing a little bit, that I would have to switch careers and figure new things out because my own industry thinks I'm, you know, a savage. And you continued here, and this, this. This hits me. I know some people have said some nasty things about me having joined OnlyFans. But, you know, the way we see it in this house is mommy's a warrior. Not accepting defeat. That was the last trick up my sleeve to feed them and take care of everything. And no one would believe that I had maybe $1,000 left in the bank, but a beautiful home that I couldn't sell, nobody wanted, no one would buy it. I don't know what's, you know, if it's because of that or. Or if it was a spiritual thing that I still have the house. But, yeah, I got a lot of heat for the OnlyFans thing. I was shielded from some of it. I never read anything. I don't read articles that are written about me. I know that I did some press to diffuse some of it. I did a Fox interview. And the interview was decent, from what I've heard. I never read it myself. I did Adam Carolla, he said, you know, he was like, I wouldn't want my daughter to do that. And I was with him on it. I was like, look, I wouldn't want my daughter to do it. But I'm 50, like, you know, older than that, who, like, my life's over. Like, I can start a whole new version of my life at this point. She's a child. Any kids that are. That are getting on there that soon, you know, a lot of different people talk about it being empowering for women because they can take business into their own hands. For me, I would not necessarily want my kid to just start doing that. I mean, if my kid had no other resources and needed to pay for. Like, for example, there's this girl who's putting herself through law school. That's cool. Like, I'm with that. But if it's just, let's just go make a living off of being hot. I mean, models do it. It's fine. I mean, I guess you want to do what you want to do, you want to do it. I wouldn't advise my daughter to do that. All right, question for you. Do you have trouble staying focused? Are you easily distracted, suffering from brain fog? Yes. Well, it used to be me. It was frustrating and it was scary and I actually thought I was losing my mind. What I've learned is that brain fog is not based on how old you are or how little sleep you get. And that's an issue for me too. And it doesn't start in your head. It starts with poor blood flow. And that is why I take Vinia and I take it every day. Here's why. Your brain is less than 2% of your body weight, but it demands 20% of your oxygen. So when your brain is starved of oxygen, your circulation suffers. And that is when brain fog sets in. Vinia is fantastic because it's a nature based solution and that is important to all of us right now. You've heard about the Mediterranean diet and how red wine is good for circulation? 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When you click the link in the description, it's V-I N I A.combecks. improve your blood flow and say goodbye to that brain fog today. He was like the person that knew me and I knew him and we were not perfect individuals. And he wasn't perfect. But he texted me and he called me Bumblebee. He said, I'm always bumbling. I'm always buzzing about. And we lived together for six years, and he said, those six years that I lived with you were the best times of my life because it was the healthiest he had ever been. And so then he texted me and we started talking. And he's not online. You know, he likes to be in gyms, and he likes to, you know, just. He's. He. He's just not. He's not online. So somehow he didn't know what I was standing for and not forcing vaccinations on people. And he said, oh. I said, you didn't. Did you get the vaccine? And he said, yeah, I got the vaccine. I got the Pfizer. You know, I need to be ready if you ever need me to come overseas. I was like, anthony, I didn't get it. And he was like, oh. And we joked around about it a little bit. And the next day, he passed away. So when people ask me if I would have done anything different, I would have screamed. I would have screamed so much louder. Screamed what? Everything I was saying, from lockdowns to masked vaccines. Question everything. Do not allow these people to force this on you. Pay attention. I would have screamed it. So he had. They had him. They had him, you know, cremated. They didn't do an autopsy. His legs had begun to swell and he was having trouble breathing. And three weeks before he passed, he was supposed to go see a blood doctor and a heart doctor. So, yeah, I would have screamed. Thank you. Sorry. That was unexpected. So I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry for what I said, for what I posted, what I was standing for, what I was screaming for or trying to scream for. Like, I'm not sorry. Sorry. I wonder if you would have made it had your upbringing not been what it was. I don't know. I might have not had that fire. Right? And that's what. It's funny you say that, because obviously the twins live behind gates and go to private schools. You know, I was wearing shoes until. Not till I had holes in my shoes, but until the holes got in my socks and my socks started coming from the bottom of the shoes and eating fish sticks and ramen and living on food stamps and drugs and abuse and violence, like, all that hardened me in a way that I felt like I was ready to whatever came my way if I overcame this and got out of this and made it out of this, like like, there's nothing you can do to stop me. So I kind of think that upbringing. Although I'm in counseling for my childhood issues now, that upbringing hardened me, put that chip on my shoulder and allowed me to go run through walls and do whatever needed it took to be a professional athlete. Have you ever talked to him? Not outside of. No. No. At that meet, there was, of course, in the ready room and different things, very brief small talk, but no, never. If. If he walked in here right now, today, what would you say? I would want him to know that his actions displayed an utter disregard for us as women, which is, of course, what the women's sporting category was created to protect and uphold and celebrate. I would let him know that, look, I have no animosity towards him. I really don't. Like. I don't garner this hatred in my heart. Ultimately, he was following the rules. It's the rules that are the problem. And I would be sure to tell him that. I would be sure to tell him, look, live your life. Be who you want to be. Don't expect me to support it or affirm these delusions that you have, because you very much are a man, and that will never change. I would have no problem saying that to Thomas's face. Within a year after my dad's death, I was addicted to heroin. So that was kind of. And I'm not saying that that's what caused my addiction, you know, for. You know, in many ways, I believe that I was born an addict. You know, I had that. I feel like I was born with empty spaces inside of me, that my inclination was to fill with things that were outside of me. So born with that, and then you. I feel that way, but who knows? Who knows, you know? And I've been in recovery for 40 years. So I. And I go to a meeting every day. Every day. Every day. And I hear people. You know, I hear people's stories every day. And if you go to those meetings, half the people think that they were born with addiction. Half of them think they acquired it. And it may be that there's. You know, there's their genetic. There's probably genetic codes that provide vulnerabilities, but that, you know, the way that we're nurtured, the way that, you know, that we walk through the landscapes of life also may change our behavior in various ways. What we do know is that once you become an addict, you can never go back. You're now an addict for life. Okay, but you just said it that. All right, I'm 70. 71. This is as good as it's gonna get. Yeah. So are we done? Are we done messing with? We're done. I wouldn't take anything. I wouldn't take anything else because I don't think my body could actually take it. It's, like, had enough of the shit that I've done to it, so. But it doesn't stop the voice in your head. It's like being an alcoholic. Yeah. You know, once you're an alcoholic, even though you're not using, you'll still think about drinking. So all the things. But even the surgeries, even those. Are you done? Oh, God. Can you imagine now at this age? No, I couldn't. I just couldn't. Couldn't what? Imagine going in and saying, oh, I want this lifted and that lifted and suck a bit here. There's nothing to suck, Sharon. I just. I'd be ridiculous. Even then, I know I'm pushing it. I'm part Jewish. Are you? No. But my best friend. You're a liar. My best friend in college, and I think I'm more Jewish than she is because a lot of most. I have some Jewish friends. Tell me about the Jews. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Most Jews. Oh, here we go. That's my. Starting with my best friend Julie from college. Julie the Jew. Julie the Jew. Julie. Are you saying Julie. No. You're making me smile. Julie. Julie the Jew. I know her as Julie the Jew. Two stories. It sounds like a great situation. Number one, when I was in college in Indiana, I was, like, a year younger than everybody, age wise. As opposed to. Why do you have to add age wise? Well, grade wise. See, you're messing with me, and I. No, I'm not. I'm a year younger than everybody, age wise. So in other words, when I got you from high school, I was shorter than everybody, height wise. Busted. I was smarter than everybody, IQ wise. Okay, look, you're right. Yeah. You got me. Okay, go ahead. All right. No. Okay. You're the young. You're the young person. So I was younger than everybody else at the beginning. So you're a younger grade. So Julie the Jew had. She was 21 and I was 20, and not cool, because they all got to go to the bars. So I. The actual bars or bar mitzvahs. Yeah, no bars. Bar mitzvah was already passed. Because if you're a real Jew, you know that that's much younger than 21, right? Are you accusing me of faking my Jewishness? I need authenticity from you right now. Ah, my pants are Remaining good. Thank you. But not when you play Twister. That's. That's it. That's my. Okay, so I wanted to be 21, like my friends. I was circumcised and I. No, but that's what my parents. Go ahead. Was that rare, then? Rare then. How old do you think I am? You're old. You said it. You think I'm older than circumcision? Holy shit. No, but you act like it was a big deal that you got circumcised. It is a big deal. They cut the end of my piece. Penis off. You act like it's a big deal. My parents were very progressive. They didn't cut it, they just hemmed it. They figured if the fashion ever changed, I could let it down. Oh, look, bell bottoms are back. You act like it's a big deal you were circumcised. Okay, back to Julie the Jew. I helped do it to my son. It's not a big deal. You just. Wait, wait. You helped do it to your son, like, the circumcision? Yes. Did you use a corkscrew? A bottle opener? I was medicated. I don't know. I was with a doctor. You were medicated and they let you cut. Why were you medicated? I had just had a child. Hello. I just pushed it out. No, I know how birth is done. I'm just saying. So the little tool that they use, they had me assist. Wait, at birth? That's. You cut the umbilical cord, like, a day or two after you cut the umbilical cord. I cut my own at that. You wouldn't cut the umbilical cord. You just cut his dick. No, it's not the umbilical cord. They're still attached to me. I couldn't have, like, reached down and done that myself. Are there graphics on this podcast? Oh, my God. Are there gonna be any graphics? How do we do this? That would be impressive. That would mean I would have done my Twister stretching and bending yesterday. That's fascinating. Was his father Jewish? No. So why'd you circumcise them? That's just the norm these days. Well, 20 years ago, I thought everybody, like very few people, leave them uncircumcised now, right? What are you asking me? Why? Well, I see my own when my right hand is on green is the only time I see my own. Twister. We're back to Twister. Yes. So from the very first injury to me, walking again was probably nine months. And for someone like you, who does nothing but move and Needs to move. Was there a moment, like a low moment where that you remember, where you were scared? I hate to say this, that you weren't gonna be Jillian again, I don't want to say this because it's not the message I want to give, but if I. If we're. Unfortunately for being honest, and this is not me giving you, like, the whole expert speech, you completely understand why somebody would feel suicidal in that position. And I don't subscribe to this whole, like, universe, you know, hippity dippity. But at the end of the day, there was so much there for me with regard to learning certain lessons I needed to learn. I have a member of my family who has a chronic pain condition that I never understood, secretly judged, and my grandmother also had. It's kind of like, you know, And I remember this individual at one point telling me, like, if this gets worse, I'm gonna kill myself. And you're like, oh, for fuck sake. Mind you, I was in my 20s, right? And you're like, okay, she fucking mess. Like, I was like, oh, I'm supposed to understand this and learn my lesson and find the empathy and subsequently understand it in my work and help people who. Oh, you have an injury. And I would give you the advice, like, I'm ashamed to say it. I'd be like, oh, well, work around the injury, you know, oh, you lower body injury. Let's shadow box. Let's get in the pool. Like, these absurd, absurd platitudes because you don't understand. Yeah. When people get hooked on shit like oxycontin, I think whether I wanted to admit it or not, I was like, oh, my God. Pathetic, weak. I would have taken anything if it had worked, anything to get out of that pain. Fortunately for me, it didn't work. So. And I say fortunately because while I suffered. Well, then you went. Who knows where it would have gone? It just did not work. It didn't impact the pain at all. I didn't take oxycontin, but they did give me oxycodone and muscle relaxers. None of it worked. Did you get to that point mentally where you thought about it? Oh, my God. I was like, if this doesn't get better because you can't. Like, I couldn't. You're not a mom. I couldn't take my kids to school. You can't go to their sporting events. You can't participate in their life in any way. You can't. I can't have sex with my wife. I can't. Like, not to be Gross. But you can't be a functioning partner, can't go to dinners. I would, I had construction knee pads and I would crawl on my hands and knees around the house. I'm trying to visualize it, you doing that and what must have been going through your heart, your head at that. I just kept thinking, if it doesn't, if it's never fine, like, like that's okay. I've had a great. Like, this is terrible. I don't want anyone to think this. I'm just being honest with where you get to. And the pain is so bad. I, I would reserve a 10 for fire. I, I burns outside of that. It is, it is a nine and it is non stop. And it is so excruciating. And I would just cry from the pain. And you could not stop it. Nothing would stop it. And it would come at night, worse than during the day. And you would just lay there and wait for it because around 11 o' clock it would be calm. I would feel like I was going, I would, was being sent to hell overnight. I had to sleep in a different room for my wife because I would just like crawl on the floor and writhe in pain. It was so bad. There's a cost to be true to yourself if you don't follow the current narrative. Yeah, but what's the cost of lying or pretending you're down with nonsense or what's the. It's a soul crushing cost. I would say your dignity or whatever. I mean, I don't want to sound holier than thou or anybody else. I'm just like, I don't have a choice. You know, sometimes people based on, based on your core beliefs and values and based on your, your own principles, that's when you, that's what you mean when you say you don't have a choice. Yeah, I don't even have core beliefs or values. I'm just like, look, I'm a comedian. I say what I want to say. That's how it works. And I was. And I always tell everyone I'll go back to swinging a hammer if, if I can't, if I gotta start lying, then I'll just go back and swing a hammer. Cause I have a trade and there's some dignity with a trade, you know what I mean? But I'm not gonna be a comedian and follow everyone like sheep over something like Covid or whatever. And I don't have a choice is the way I presented it, at least to myself. Joe Biden, the man is awful. He's terrible at this job. America knows he's terrible at the job. Everyone knows. This is not a conversation. We have lost seven United States embassies under his presidency. Yes. What does that mean? So we have embassies all over the world, in every country. That is essentially sovereign American territory. Under his watch, we have had to evacuate seven United States embassies. I did not know that. That has never happened in American history. Never. That's how we are. That's how weak we are on the world stage. That's how bad it is. Okay, help me. Why has that happened? Why are we evacuating? Because there's no protection. There's no fear. I'm gonna say real quick, and I'll give it to Wes. When you are weak and our adversaries know you're weak, they push you. It's no different than the bully in the schoolyard. If you're timid and the bully knows he can get away with it, what happens? He comes for your lunch money every single week, every single day. Until you punch back. Until you punch back. We have been weak under Joe Biden, and so our adversaries around the globe, big and small, know that they can push us. Go ahead, Wesley. You go. You can talk. I'll give you my favorite. My favorite President Trump story. This is my number one favorite of all time. When we were negotiating with the Taliban, while President Trump was still the president, President Trump wanted to get out of Afghanistan, but he wanted a conditions based withdrawal, meaning that you do what we tell you to do and then we will start pulling troops back slowly as long as you abide by our rules. It's President Trump and Mike Pompeo and they are talking to Taliban leadership in the room. And they had one translator in the room. President Trump looked at the Taliban leader and said this. I want to leave Afghanistan, but it's going to be a conditions based withdrawal. And translator translated and he said, if you harm a hair on a single American, I'm gonna kill you. And the translator goes. And Trump goes, tell him. Tell him what I said. Tell him what I said. Reached in his pocket, pulled out a satellite photo of the leader of the Taliban's home and handed it to him. Shut up. Got up and walked out the room. Sure did. Did you know for 18 months not a single American was killed in Afghanistan? Sure did. That's the definition of strength. That's what I'm talking about. And so you could imagine that kind of sentiment being around the world. If we have an embassy in another country, no one's gonna touch it because they're gonna be fearful that they'll get a moab on their head. That's how President Trump rolls. This is the opposite of strength. This is the definition of weakness. And so now we're being feast upon by other countries when our embassies are there, because the Americans aren't gonna do anything about it and they don't want us there anyway. But the point of us having an embassy there and the point of us having sovereign American soul is to be able to keep an eye on the world to a certain extent, to have that presence. But you can't have that presence when you have feckless leadership. The physical toll of this job the first time and then the four years in between, almost four years. And to take it on again, like, have you seen a change in him physically? No, I actually worry. Like, I feel like, I think he seems honestly better to me physically. He looks better physically than I've ever seen him. I've known him for 16 years. I'm like, God, you look great. Like, what is this? How? I don't know. It's mind boggling to me. But to your point, I know that when I go out, I'll go out and I'll speak places and sometimes I do a couple of speeches in a day, meet and greet people. That's exhausting. That is a lot. And he will go out and he would leave downtown Manhattan sitting in that courtroom for the entire day, go do events, go meet with people. And just traveling around takes a toll on you. And he always seems ready to go. He's the one on the plane. If you travel with him, who everyone else is, like, falling asleep. And he'll put on like a concert. He'll put on like an Elton John concert, an Elvis Presley concert, and crank it up. And I'm like, don't you want to relax a little? He's amazing, though. I honestly, I have no explanation for it other than he was built for this. He was made for this. I always say he was made for such a time as this, and you can take that in a lot of different ways, but I really believe it. I truly do. I don't know how else to explain him. If my daughter, one of my daughters, brings home a guy who's like, he could be the best guy. And I'm like, where are you from originally? And he's like, pittsburgh. And I'm like, what's your favorite football team? And he's like, the Giants. I'll be like, get out of my house. Get out. You're not. I'm not going to like you. I actually like you less that you're lying to me. Trying to be a fan of my favorite football team to impress me because you want to date my daughter. If you're not a Steelers fan, get out. Or maybe his grandfather is from here and raised him to be a Giants fan and taught him that Lawrence Taylor was a God. Like, why is that? You know, I think you're being a little judgy. I am. I'm a jud. Listen, when it comes to my daughter, I'll be a judgy little bitch. Yeah. And I was wrong because I talk shit about Jared. I was wrong, you know, and I mean, I was the first in line talking shit about Trump. I gave him all. I mean, I was. I mean, I was all day, every day. Why? Because I didn't like, his mouth was low hanging fruit there. Mouth in the meat. I didn't feel like it's appropriate. Yeah, it's not appropriate. And I would say that to him today if I would say like, yo, your mouth, man. You're the president. You're also 79. You're, you're the president. You're 78. You just got shot in the air. Like, get some new material. Like, like, like truly, like bring us together. Like, shut the shit up. Like, you're the president. But, well, you talk. I'm not the president, you know, so. But I don't know what I was thinking. But, but, but in regards to, that's what number first and foremost is. Is, is Israel and is supporting Israel and Iran needs to be drained forever. How, I don't know. But financially, there's a way to tariff their asses to squeeze. They have nothing. So they can't support these Hezbollah, these Houthis that could send a drone the size of a car into Tel Aviv, which is like sending it into like, you know, like, it came off like the Hudson River. Right. It's crazy. Look, I live largely in conservative circles. I go to evangelical events. I go to all of these places. I am treated fine, equally. I have no doubt that some people, well, some people say it, they pray for me, or some people maybe don't approve of something. But no one's coming for my life. No one's trying to take me out. And that is so much more tolerant, actually than anything I get from the supposed tolerant people, which is rather remarkable. I would say that that hypocrisy is thick because they're the ones that are. We're tolerant now. You better do what we want you to do. Or else I will make sure that your life is ruined and I won't have to cancel you. Man, your kids would not have the awesome father that they have without. If I didn't have a shit father to be went through. The crap, the pain. That's why I tell people failure is the best. And bad moments are your best fuel because you realize, like, I will realize that I will never be him. I beat him. I actually beat him in the third grade, to be honest. But like. But all I'm saying, definitely beat him up. No, no, no. In terms of growth and success, like, I will never be him. I will never. Is he still alive somewhere? Yeah. There's no contact. What for? Yeah. And your mom? Yeah, she's out there somewhere, but no contact. We said goodbye and we needed to. I have a chapter in my book called Sea Turtles. And that's when you said goodbye. We just. It just. It just doesn't work. It doesn't. It's not anybody's fault. It just doesn't work. But it still takes courage to know that you gotta love somebody enough to know you're not good for yourself. Yes, but for yourself, too. Like, you're big and strong and tough and all those things. And then there's the human instinct. Saying goodbye to your mother is not an easy thing to do. But sometimes it's the right thing to do. Is that why you mentioned needing grandparents back, too? Because yours. Your kids don't have that. So one thing I can't give. What about their mom? Mom's parents? Unfortunately, my wife's not much better. Her family, the abuse and horrible things that they've done to her in life. And I made a decision. The one thing I. The one thing I'm good at is spotting somebody who's abusive or bad. Because I grew up in two occasions with my stepdad and my biological father. They're very good at the camouflage, unless you know what that you're looking for. And I didn't like the way they talked to my daughter. They talked to her different than her other grandkids. And so I put a stop to it because she's the only one that was black. So she was. And I. And I caught it and I ended it. And then when Ingrid saw it, she was like, we're done. I mean, we are lucky. She does have an awesome great aunt. Awesome. Who goes out her way to see her. But unfortunately, on my end, I don't have. I. That's it. Like, I don't have anyone for them. And I wouldn't put anybody around them that's genetically connected to me. It's just, I won't risk my children being disappointed. So there's no point. And like, you know, even my brother, we don't speak either. But he couldn't remember my kids names and I was just like, so it's just not some, the hardest thing in the world is to love somebody enough to let them go because you got to love yourself more. And if it's not a good. Here's the deal. I can see my mom tomorrow and we will get along for 48 hours like you never will laugh. And it will be the greatest thing ever. And I'll get hugs from her and it'll feel great. And then day five will happen. And then the ugliness just kind of the stares and the. There's. If there's, I don't know if you've had this opportunity, but if there's like one thing you could tell each of them, your mom and dad like, is have you had that opportunity? What would you say? How'd I do? Yeah, how'd I do? But I know it would be impossible for them to answer because they'd have to say that I did it without them. So that's never going to happen. But the good news is, is that my kids won't have to ask me how they did because they'll hear about it all the time. All the time. So how do you think you. I think I did pretty. I think I did pretty well. I think I'm doing all right. And, but I, I never say like, I never think like, ah, I've made it, I'm here, I'm good. It's always like, what do I got to do next? Where I keep going, you can't be satisfied, you know, and, and you gotta be a realist. But that's the, the one thing I know is that my kids won't ever have to sleep underneath their beds unless we're playing a game. And they'll never, no matter what, no matter what the situation is, I'll be there. So this episode is brought to you by JCPenney. Yes, JCPenney. And if you've been there recently, you know it's the place to go. For jaw dropping looks at brag worthy prices. They've got something special for every style and budget. Not to mention re and deals that make finding those hidden gems even sweeter. If you already shop JCPenney, you're already in on the secret. But if not, it's time to ask Wait, am I sleeping on jcpenney shop jcpenney.com yes, JCPenney. Eric Trump calls me in his office and he said, close the door. And I was like, okay, who are we talking about, you know, getting ready to talk about? And he. He's very serious. And he looks at me and he says, you know, Lynn, we know what you're doing, and you're better than this. And immediately, Sage, the addict in me was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I denied it and denied it and denied it. I said, I've never. I haven't touched cocaine in years. I don't know who would tell you that. And meanwhile, my brain is like, freaking told them this, and I know exactly who it was. And I'm just getting angry and I'm like. And then as I'm lying to his face, I look up and he's crying, you know, and then I just lost it at that point. I was like. I started crying. Laura Trump was on the phone. You know, she told me how much she loved me. He told me how much he loved me. You know, he was basically like, you're a sister to us. We want to make sure that you get the help that you need to get through this. His brother and sister were also extremely supportive about this. You know, never in a million years they got my parents on the phone. It was a genuine intervention. And I know this might sound sort of extreme, but it's not even hyperbole. I believe with all my heart that they saved my life because a few years later, my dealer was arrested for fentanyl laced cocaine that had killed three people in Manhattan. And I look at the COVID of the New York Post, and there he is being curb walked. And I was just like, you know, woulda, coulda, shoulda. I mean, that could have and should have been me if they had not intervened and told me that they were gonna stand by me and that I was worth saving and that I should recognize that I was worth saving myself. And I think that brought us so much closer than any job ever could. I owe them everything. And that's why you'll never see me leave this family. Whether he was president of the United States, whether he was a CEO, they've done so much for me. And as Democrat as my parents are, they love them for this. They love them for bringing me back to myself. For. For. What's your best impersonation? No, your favorite. Anything that's new feels like a new child. But I love Tony Soprano. Cause one, it's a white guy, Italian. And nobody expects you to do that. Ask me a question, Tony. What did you do with the body? Doesn't fuck about it what I did with the fucking body. All the guys are going to fucking marry. Show pussy Christopher. They know that fucking position. I'm from the king of New Jersey. I run a fucking under bush. Uncle June and Johnny fucking shack buried behind a fucking bottom bick. It doesn't matter. It goes wherever the fucking say it goes. Oh, my God. Like, I'm watching your mouth when you do it. Is that the key? Like I said, notes Tony. Tony is ish. Talk about my sister Jadish, uncle junior, Johnny fucking check. So then you gotta have that middle of the AJ we go down to audio fucking bookish. He's got the better guy with the good fuck a gravy. That's a different language you just spoke. Yeah, that's literally a different language. Yeah. So good. We met when barstool was nothing. So, you know, she rode the grind up with us still, like, currently, basically, she has access to like, all my money. Like, if she just wanted to be like, I'm taking it and gone, she could. Okay, wait, why? So that. That's good. So. Well, I've told this story. We. We stayed married. We're still technically married right now. So she still has access to. We tried to get a divorce in Massachusetts. Denied. How can they deny a divorce? Because her and I have a very fluid relationship, which with our finances. They. She didn't want to take. She's not like, give me half. And we've been separated legally for a long time. The judge said our wasn't equitable to her. They're like, he's worth a lot more. You have to give half. She's like, I don't want half. Like, wow. We've pretty much agreed on how we do it. So we're going to do it in Florida. But we've had that joint bank account and it so forever. Like, I trust her implicitly. I'd like to read for people at home the lyrics to a new. A new song you wrote dedicated to P. Diddy. Oh, yeah. I dedicated a song to him. I sure did. I haven't finished writing it. It's just a. Lyrics. So these lyrics are. I'll read them and you tell me how accurate they are as far as what you're still working on. Oh, they're accurate. I haven't changed one word. I just haven't finished the song. Okay. Evil runs around this town undercover Looking for a soul to Take but they better stay away from the righteous hunter or hell is all they'll pay Because I see around the corner and I know you're coming I see you around the corner I know you're coming if you had any sense you'd run but you ain't got a clue what a daddy will do Better give your soul to Jesus while I get my gun Better give your soul to Jesus while I get my gun that's correct. Why did you write that song? Because if you come after my kids, I'll kill you. You try it. I would much rather spend the rest of my life in prison. And my kids are okay. They have no understanding the level of sincerity that regular, everyday Americans have when it comes to their kids. I would much rather stand in front of a freight train than you ever lay a pinky on one of my kids. And these arrogant bastards going out there saying, like Sean Combs said, we own yours. We'll take your soul. We'll take your soul. We own your kids. We determine what. What clothes they wear. We determine we did. We. We guide their lives. We'll take your souls. With this crazy demonic look on his face, standing on a microphone on a stage with bright lights and television cameras. And he is saying this to us, okay, Sean Combs, why don't you come on and try it one time? Because you'll only do your dirty work in the shadows. You'll only do the dirty work under the house. Right? Because you're a coward. Evil, wicked, satanic, demonic demon is what you are. And we have absolutely no fear of you. We have less than fear. We have nothing for you other than total annihilation of you and everything you stand for and everything you're doing to the kids of the United States of America. That's what that little lyric is about. People don't understand that we don't know where our beef products come from. We don't. So you go and you buy an apple in the store, and you see where it's from. You see what country it's from. It's on the little sticker. Your beef products, you don't know. And people will say, tommy, wait. No, it says, like, product of usa, usda, Whatever. No, no, no. We don't have country of origin labeling. We haven't since 2015. So that means that the meat packers, which there are four major meat packers, can buy beef from all over the world. From Brazil, from Mexico, from Japan, from Australia, and they can import it over here, and they can simply repackage it and put Product of the usa, because that's considered product of the usa, and they can sell it as if it is product of the usa if it's packaged here, not born, bred and slaughtered here, but packaged here. So we don't know. And the reason that that's important is not only because you should know where your food's coming from. It's because our American ranchers are being undercut on a daily basis because of this, because they can't differentiate their product. So you might have a cow that's from Brazil that's getting thrown in the same as an American born and raised cattle rancher beef. And we don't know. And our American ranchers are being run out of business because of this, because they cannot differentiate their product. And that means that the meat packers don't have to pay them anymore. It might cost them more to raise beef in the US and be a small cattle rancher that's doing things ethically and raising their animals on the land. It's going to cost them more, but they're still getting paid the same amount because they're being undercut. Because the American consumer cannot differentiate. We've got to know where our food is coming from, and it will help your American farmers and ranchers. 31 years ago, my daughter was six weeks old, Cassidy, she's now 31 years old. And I was supposed to be going to the Miss America pageant. The FBI called my husband and they said, Mr. Gifford, we have a problem. There's this guy, this very, very bad human being was a psychopathic murderer and rapist and murderer, and he's coming to get your wife. And I just had Cassidy six weeks before getting ready to get on a plane or. No, not even on a plane. I was just for three hours to drive to Miss America Patchen in a plan van and a car, no big deal. You know, from Greenwich to. It's no big deal anyway. Was that Atlantic City? Atlantic City, no big deal. And I did it for years, every year. But he said, we would like you, Mr. Gifford, to just keep your schedule and have your wife keep her schedule. Because this guy, we don't want him to know that we're onto him. We know he had raped and tortured his aunt. Somehow she found her way to the phone and called, you know, whatever. I never heard it until just the other day somebody told me how she finally got away from. He left. He stole her keys and told her, now I'm going to go after Kathie Lee. Yeah. And so the FBI called my husband and said, Mr. Gifford, please just keep your schedule because we don't want this guy to know that we were after him. And Frank said, I'm going to make one call. I will not agree to that until I make one call. And he called. He called Donald. He called Donald. And I always stayed at the Trump Tower there, Trump Plaza, whatever it was. There's so many hotels, but the one in Atlantic City. And Frank called Donald of the situation, and Donald said, this is why I will love this man for my whole life. He said, frank, don't you worry about it. I've got your girls. I've got your girls. And so Frank called back the FBI and said, I called Donald Trump. He says he's going to take care of my wife and my daughter. And next day, Donald. I didn't know anything. Donald calls me and he goes, kathy, I'm sending my. Sending my helicopter for you. Oh, my goodness. I said, donald, why? He said, because you had a baby. I said, donald, women have babies every day. It's no big deal. Thank you, but it's no big deal. And he goes, no. Congratulations. So happy for you. Sending my baby. My helicopter for you and your baby and your nanny. And I said, donald. You tried to talk Donald out of something. Yeah. But that day he sent me. He sent his helicopter. Helicopter for me. And when I'm driving to Atlantic City. So you're flying there. And I'm flying on his helicopter. And when I arrive in Atlantic City, there are four. Four of his. Of his, like, security. Oh, Major. I mean, these guys are major. Major. And they're. Mrs. Gifford, Mr. Trump wants you to know that we're here for you. I didn't know what they were talking about. First of all, I just had a baby. You know, you got all kinds of stuff going on, you know. Yes, all kinds. Yeah, all kinds of stuff going on. And I said, thank you, guys. And I never thought about it all week long, more and more people. Every day, more and more guys, until the very end. And it was Saturday. And that's the only day that we had off because that was the day of the. Of the. Of the pageant. And that's the only day that we had nothing to do except get ready for it. And I went downstairs from my hotel room. I'd had a guy staying at my. Outside my hotel room all week long outside my hotel room. And I said, why? I just never thought about it, you know, I just stupid. But I didn't. But he did. But he never said a word. Nobody said a word to me. And I went down to get my. I just want to read the newspapers, be a normal person, you know. And it says, daily news. Kathie Lee Gifford death threat. Kathie Lee Gifford death threat. I went, what have you forgiven yourself? Is it necessary to forgive yourself for addiction that has affected your life greatly, but also others that you love? We can't set ourselves up as a higher tribunal than God, and God forgives us. In fact, God went to some considerable trouble that we'd be forgiven. Being born and dying on the cross for our sins. We are forgiven if we repent and if we accept Jesus. And I feel that with addiction, it exists at a peculiar nexus when it comes to the subject of self will and self determination, which even when it comes to neurological arguments, people will be aware, querying whether or not such a thing as self will exist. There seems to be some sort of predetermined, determined reflex prior to decisions being made. At least this is my. The best attempt I can make at understanding something like that when it comes to forgiving addicts and forgiving ourselves in a sense. Like, you know, I say that I've forgiven myself, but like, you know, like, I sort of, like, I suffer, I suffer. And this is. Being a drug addict is a very punishing thing. It's punishing for the drug addict. It's punishing for people that love a drug addict. And I think the thing that's significant is what I have been shown is that at the heart of addiction is always pain. The result of addiction is always pain. And the solution to addiction is God, is a connection to God. I wear my shoes in my own house. You do not. Oh, yeah, you let your kids do it too? Yes. I don't have. I don't have this thing about you take your shoes off when you go in the house. I have the opposite rule. I want you to keep your shoes on in my house. Why? Because I don't want to see your feet. And no offense, I mean your feet because, you know, you have the socks on, which is fine, but you start telling people to take their shoes off in your house. Next thing you know, you got bare feet in the house. You got all this, I'd rather just have your shoes. So I wear shoes. It's 11:30 at night. I'm relaxing in my house. I have shoes on. Do you wear them on carpeting? Yes. Do you wear them in your bedroom? Yes. Oh, that's disgusting. I'll sit with my feet up on the couch with my shoes on? No. That's what I do. How are you still married. She quit. She gave up. Right, Exactly. You got to choose your battles. Caroline Levitt, obviously. Thank you. How has life changed? It's changed a lot, definitely. My friend Sarah Huckabee Sanders, now the governor of Arkansas, did give me great advice before this job. She said, your life will change overnight the first time you take the podium. And I think there's a lot of truth to that, but I'm still the same person and I still like to do the same things, and I'm having fun and I love my job, so it's good. Take me back to that first day when you approach the podium the very first time, something that I assume you had dreamt of. I mean, you are on a mission in general, in life, like, get out of the way. What was that day like? It was very calm in comparison to what you would have imagined or what I would have thought. I prepared very much for that first briefing. I prepare extensively for every briefing, but particularly the first one. And I was nervous, but I felt confident because I prepared. And best quote in life is if you fail to prepare, prepare to fail. And I knew I could succeed because I had the knowledge that I needed. And I have an amazing team who is so supportive and helped me prep, get my notes together, and a great president who tells it like it is and makes my job very easy. Does he give feedback? Because he watches everything, right? Yes. What's that like? Lots of feedback. Really? He watches it all and it's always very positive and kind. He is one of the things people don't know about President Trump, but they should, is he is a words of affirmation guy and so complimentary to staff and everyone. I mean, you've met him. He's always so kind, and I think it's probably because he was in the real estate and hospitality industry. He knows how to make people feel good, and he's just a pleasure to be around and a great boss to work for and is very upfront and honest about how he feels about everybody, which that's what you want in a leader. You want to know where you stand with your boss. And he has put together such a great team here at the White House. And Susie Wiles, great testament to her because everybody knows their lanes and their jobs and how to execute. And we're all running at the direction of the president. The first time I anyone ever talked about my weight, I was like 22. And I remember Keith Olbermann did a Show with Joel McHale, the actor, and they were ranking how hot I am and like, talking about my weight because, like, someone had called me fat on TV and it, like, went early, got a ton of attention in, like, the early parts of my career. And I always think, like, you know, I've, like, women who come up to me are like, like, women who tend to like, like me, involve my work are like normal women. Yes. And normal women. A lot of times I've had babies, maybe don't have time to work out everywhere. Like, maybe don't ever like, like, they. They don't. Everybody is a different body size in different ways. But one thing I always think is, like, if you're calling me fat, imagine a fan of yours who maybe has, like, just had a baby or whatever and like, isn't feeling great about their body and they think that you think they're fat too. Like, that's the thing I never understand is, like, you're not just hurting me, you're hurting women who admire you. And it's not just like, there's many people who've done this over the years. And I often. I don't understand why me being happy. I am healthy. I go to the doctor every six months because I'm very. I'm like a little bit of a hypochondriac. I think anyone who's lost a parent to rare cancer, you get like, you're a little whatever. But I'm very healthy. I'm just not a skinny person. And it doesn't bother me, but it seems to really bother other people. I think they're like, why don't. Why don't you take Ozempic? Why haven't you starved yourself? Like, why don't you? And I think, like, I'm so acutely aware of how little time we have in this world and like, sharing food, like sharing glass of wine, really living in the way that I like to live. It just. I just, like, I would rather be spending time with, like, my husband, my kids, my friends, my family, my work than be spending, like, the extra whatever it takes to look like that. Amazing. If that's your vibe, right, you know, Amazing. And some people do it for, like, mental health and physical health. And that's great. I just am not ever going to be that person. And I always. I just don't understand why it. I still don't get why women who are not skinny bother so many people. So I don't get it. What would you say has been the most challenging part over the last 50 years of your marriage? Hmm. Probably just being so busy because, you know, when I became Director of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins. Pediatric neurosurgery at Hopkins was not a significant entity, you know, nationally and, you know, work extremely hard. By 2008, pediatric neurosurgery at Hopkins was ranked number one in the country by U.S. news & World Report. A lot of work went into that, and, you know, Candy did a masterful job of raising the boys, and I just wasn't there as much as you should be. I kind of made up for it because I was doing a lot of talks all over the world, and I always required, instead of a big honorarium, let my family come with me. Really? So the kids all had frequent flyer cars to every airline. They traveled all over the world, and we had a lot of quality time together. So even when they were in school, you'd pull them out and have them travel with you? Absolutely. Why? Because I wanted them to know who their father was. Otherwise they would have been saying, mom, that strange guy was here again last night. I have spoken about y' all publicly a million times, but we've never been able to do this. I need you to start, though, from. From the beginning, which is 1970, when you met, right? Yes. And once again, they've been given none of these questions. This is a beautiful thing. So I need the two different versions of what happened when you met and where you were. Who wants to go first? There was a birthday party at my parents home for me, and they told me, you can have the party at the house, Gary, but you have to buy all the booze. Which we did. This was at the end of the month of June, 1970, after we graduated from West Point. So all of the crew was there at the house. And I heard the doorbell ring. We were down in the basement. That was the party room. And I heard the doorbell. And, like, I knew what I had to do. As a host, you go upstairs and you meet the people. So I started upstairs, and my roommate. Not my roommate, my classmate Roger Fox, was at the top of the steps with a young lady named. Who I met, named Mona o'. Neill. And that began it. And that evening, I met her and we danced a couple times. And I thought she was a nice young lady. Is that all you thought? Nice? Friendly? Well, she was hot, and she danced well. And I remember what she was wearing, too. What was she wearing? And she. Her hair was. Was as short as mine is now. Are you serious? Oh, that's your flight attendant. Wait, what was she wearing? She was. She was wearing these kind of crushed light green velvet pants. And with a. A chain link belt. And I remember, I think it was a white top. That's. That's what I recall. Am I right? Yeah. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so you saw her, and she's a good dancer. Yeah, good dancer. And then at the end of the evening, Roger told me, he said, hey, you know the girl I came with? Yeah. She would like to see you again. And so Roger said, I wrote her name, her phone number on the pad next to the phone down in the basement. And I said, okay, good. And so. But we were all kind of in various states of inebriation that night, so I didn't really remember. And it was a few days later when my dad told me, hey, Gary, go downstairs and feed the fish. He had a big aquarium down there. And I went down, fed the fish, and was walking back towards the steps, and there was a phone and this pad, and I kind of looked at it and I went, there's something I should do here. And I went and I lifted a couple of pages and there was the name Mona o' Neill and the phone number. And I said, I tried to remember, which one is Mona. And I remembered and I went, oh, yeah, let me give her a call. So that's how. That's how it began. So it was a couple days later, once you sobered up, a day or two. No more than a couple of days later. Okay. And that was what date your actual birthday? 29th June, 1970. 29th June 19th. See, that's. You know, if someone's in the military when they say it like that, the day before the month. Yes, Mom. Well, that's basically the way it happened. But I had come back from a flight and I wasn't working and I was in civilian clothes. And so Roger, the crushed green pants with the chain. Roger was dating my roommate. And so he was taking her in those days, United Reservations was in the Daily News building in New York. So he was taking her to work. They picked me up and he said, I don't want to drive all the way to your apartment, Please. You know, I'm going to drop Mary off and then you come to the party with me. And I was tired. I hadn't been home for a few days and I didn't want to go. And he said, I really need somebody. Read the map in those days, real maps. And so finally he talked me into it and. Yeah, that's okay. So when you walked into the house, when did you see him? He was coming up the steps, easy With. With his arm around somebody and. Yeah. Oh, isn't that funny how you left that part out? Yeah, well, you asked me how I met her, not what was going on. Okay. But as soon. What'd she look like? I don't want to go into that because. Just in case she ever sees this. Because you see. Still in touch with her. Excuse me. Facebook stuff, you know? Yeah. Just. When's the last time you. We'll talk later. You don't chat with her, do you? No, no. You're just Facebook friends. And so. But you saw him. I saw him and I just thought he was so handsome. And he was huge. Couldn't believe how at the time, you were like six. Six and a half. You were huge. And so we did dance. That's true. But in the middle of the dance, the date was outside and called him outside, and he just left me. Anyway, I'm dying right now. So. So what? Okay. But he was extremely nice. Yes. And I just. I really liked him. So how was his dancing? It was better than it is now. For sure. No, for sure. Because I had to pray before I went to the Saturday Night Live 50th anniversary. Yeah, I remember we talked before that, and I was like, I don't know if I should go because I know they don't like me. And I said, you know, I didn't wear, like, my Trump hat or anything. I wanted to, you know, but, you know, I wasn't going to go. We won, you know, But I. I went and I went like, hey, I'm part of the history of the show. I need to show also gratitude and respect for this, what Lorne Michaels has achieved. Probably the longest running, most successful show in the history of show business. And yes, they lean left because we were all in our twenties then who. You know, the old expression is true. If you're not a liberal, you know, in your 20s, you know you're heartless. If you're still a liberal in your 50s, you're an idiot. And so I definitely feel that way. But anyway, so I go there and I go, just go there. Just don't worry about this. And just, you know. So I go. And luckily, my good friend Jim Brewer was with me and I was there and I saw, you know, Dave Chappelle was lovely, and. And so anyway, I'm there and I go, I'm just gonna sit, you know, just relax. It's gonna be fine. I'm sitting next to Al Sharpton, and when I got me next to him, I go, how are you still alive? And I go, you know, everything's cool. It's all right. You know, he doesn't know who I am. It's fine. And then. Then I see, two rows down, I see Robert De Niro, and I go, look, well, oh, he's not a Trump supporter. He not like Trump. And I love Trump. He not loved Trump. And I said, well, I'm not gonna have to deal with him. It's all right. You know, he. He'd have to. You know, he's sitting over there, two rows down to the left. He'd have to really turn his head for the narrow to see me. He'd have to, like, do, like, you know, he'd have to do this, like, you know. So I said, I think I'm pretty good now. At the end of the show, they do this wonderful thing, a lovely thing Lauren Michaels does, where he invites everybody on stage. If you've ever been a cast member, if you've ever hosted, he invites us all on stage, which is a really generous, lovely thing to do, and God bless him. So we all start walking towards the stage. I was there for, you know, better part of five years. So I'm walking to the stage, and everybody's. And everybody in the audience basically has been on for 50 years. So everybody there has been either on the show or hosted the show or been a cast. So we're all walking, you know, and all of a sudden, you know, and I see De Niro, like, you know, two rows in front of me, and all of a sudden, they push. And then people start pushing again. The next thing, I'm right behind De Niro, and I go, please don't push anyone. He doesn't like Trump. And I bump into him. He turns around. I swear to God, he goes. He's like Schneider. I don't understand. He's a schmuck. Why can you support that? I don't understand how you could support that. He's turning a whole country into schmucks. And I swear, you know, in my mind, the only thing I thought about is, like, robert De Niro knows who I am. Oh, my God. But then I swear to God, I looked at him, swearing my children's life. I looked at him right the eye, and I said, I love you. No, no, no, really, I love you. And he just looked at me like, okay, okay. And then he walked on stage. No way. What's the most amount of pain you've experienced? The breakup with Aaron in 2020. Why? Because it was sudden. It felt like it was my life. So like, you know, when you live with somebody and you know, like, it's your whole life, you know, it's your dentist appointment, it's your hairdo, it's your. That's like your clothes, it's your. It's your mailing address. It's like everything. And. And because the nature of the relationship was emotional, emotionally abuse, abusive. So that will, like, wore me down to nothing. Someone that, you know, people could never imagine that I would lack and lack complete, any confidence or belief in the simple things about who I am. Like, I, Yeah, everything was torn to bits. And, yeah, he leaves a trail of blood. I don't think, I don't think I'm. I don't think I'm saying too much, you know, earth shattering stuff after we've, you know, there's been enough out there. There has been, especially recently. And it's. But it gave me the greatest gift, right? The greatest gift, which was myself. You know, I knew. I, like, it was like, wow. Like, you know, it gave me the greatest gift of how much I needed to show up for myself and do and take care of myself. So that was that. That was that lonely time. Yeah, that was the furthest I ever. I mean, oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. In hindsight, when you were in it, you said the phrase emotionally abusive. Did you feel it at the time and ignored it, or is this in hindsight as you have recovered and gotten to know yourself again? Hindsight, I ignored it, but in real life, it was just like, I just feel like I'm. I would say all the time I'm built for hard things. I can handle hard things. Things. And. And so I just saw it as a hard thing. And I'm like, and the. My nature is to try harder and do more. And I was like, what if I don't do it for the right person? Like, what if I just get a stick up my ass about this and just get too proud and like, go, like, you know what? I'm just, I'm done. Instead of going, man, just try a little harder. Because you know, what if you really. What if you look back and think the man, I wish I would have tried. Like, I never want that in my life. I wish I would have tried. That will never be in my back of my mind. I'm not that. This is probably why I don't have regret. This is from a prisoner in Auschwitz. This is the matching number, pants and hat. We know who it came from. He had just passed away. His family no longer wanted it. And it went up for Auction. And you see, it looks like a pink triangle, which would indicate that he was gay, but it's not. It's actually faded. It's a red triangle. He was a political prisoner, so that means he was either a communist or a capitalist and who was loud about it. And so he went and he was in, I think, two different camps and so survived. So he was one, you know, seen the newsreels of them pulling up into Auschwitz. He was one of them. Oh, my goodness. And he recently passed away. Yeah. How old was he? I don't know. Do you know? He was in 1980s. Oh, he died in the 80s. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. See, that's why I have. Don't go anywhere. And we know this, but to see this up close and in person. Small, small guy, small man, small guy. And quite often it seems to have been that way. But touch it if you want. Really? I want to feel like the thickness. Oh, wow. This is. I mean, I think there's something. When you touch something imprints on you, you know, to touch something that was on a man who was tortured, suffered, worked almost to death. It's. I don't know that I've, I, I've ever felt it like this, because you see, you see the videos, you see. See the movies. Yeah. And to see this in person and to have survived it. What year did you become a Christian? 1987. I was 17 years old. You were on Growing Pains, right in the middle of Growing Pains? Yeah, it was right at the peak of its popularity. I was 17 and a half. Yeah. You were an atheist before? Yeah, Atheist growing up. Never went to church. Didn't believe in God. I, I thought that the people who did were just. Just faking it for their kids to keep Santa Claus alive and the Tooth Fairy and, And God. And then everything changed when I was about 17 and a half years old. Yeah. Why? How. How? There was a really cute girl who invited me to on a date. There's always a cute girl involved in the picture, you know, and they're good and bad. Right. Like, Eve was a great idea, but also she was trouble. And so, you know, girls can get you in trouble, and they can also be the best thing that ever happened to you. My wife Chelsea certainly was the best of the best. But there was this girl who was really cute, and I asked if I could see her one weekend. She invited me to church. Didn't know that I was an atheist, and I didn't know how to act at church. But I also knew I was an actor. And so I could fake it. And so I just watched everybody else and I just said, well, while in Rome, you know, I closed my eyes during the prayers and everything, and I heard the message that Phil Robertson committed his life to. It was the good news that there was a God who made me on purpose, for a purpose that I could be changed and healed on the inside. I could be set free of my guilt and shame of my past, and I could be given the gift of eternal life. And so I asked this girl's father many questions, and he gave me a great little book called More Than a Carpenter by Josh McDowell. I read it, and another one, Evidence that Demands a Verdict. And I began reading the Bible and going to another church with another friend and became persuaded that it took more faith for me to continue believing in atheism than it did for me to believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Wow. And so I said, you know what? I'm about the truth, and I've got to follow the evidence where it leads. And so I can't be an atheist anymore. It's just too overwhelming. I've got a million questions I can't answer, like, what about, you know, I don't know how old the earth is, and I don't know what's going on with the Mormons or the Muslims or whether or not women should be preachers and what Bible version to use. But I know I've got to die, and I know that I will need forgiveness, and I want it. And if God went to great lengths to offer it to me, I'd be a fool not to accept. And I had a lot of fear. I had to deal with, so stage fright and all kinds of performance fears and things that there just wasn't time. It was like, you're doing this. And so it really deepened my prayer life in a lot of ways. There was a moment that I was supposed to go out, and talent was really hard for me. I played classical piano, and I was terrified because we couldn't have music, and I just felt so much pressure in that. And I played my whole life. But to do it in front of thousands of people or on live TV was a whole different thing. So the night that I was supposed to go play in the Miss Virginia pageant, terrified. I called my mom. I was staying at, you know, there's a hotel, all the people stay in that are competing and stuff. And I called my mom, and he was like, can you come over here and pray with me? And she's like, no, I can't, because I can pray. With you on the phone. But I got to get over here. You got to, like, you know how to pray. You know, you can do this. And I remember, you know, I always would have a Bible with me, but, you know, they're in hotel rooms and stuff, and they always say, like, oh, you know, just turn out and pick a verse. But I was like, lord, I need something. And I remember opening the bible to Psalm 34, and the fourth verse is there. It says, you know, I sought the Lord and he heard my cries and delivered me from all my faith fears. And I was like, I don't think that's a coincidence. That's my verse, you know, And I prayed that through that whole Miss America competition thing, because it was just so frightening to me when I made it to Miss America. They told us that night they have you sort of, you know how all of it works, because you've done it. You're sort of backstage and they put everybody out there, and then they say, you come back, but you can't go back to the dressing rooms because they already know who the top 10 are back there, and they're moving your stuff around to ad different place. So you're in this holding cell between commercials and things. And I remember one of the producers of the show saying, now remember, if you make it, you're going to get to perform for 80 million people. And I thought, I want to just fall through this floor right now, because as much as I want to compete here, like, that took the breath out of me. So there was just a lot of growing out of my baby faith to say, like, if you feel like the Lord is guiding you in this, like, he's going to get you through it. And I had a time when I competed in a local pageant where I got up there and freaked out and forgot my piece and just kind of stared out into the darkness, really, and had to, like, pull it back together and finish that piece and then go off stage and cry in the back. So I knew what it was like to be that afraid and to say, I'm gonna do this, and it's not me. It's his strength working through me in this. Wow. It's kind of a perfect place to end my anniversary look back show, because just like Shannon said there, I found that so many of my guests over the last year, plus, relied on their faith to pull them through tough situations. And that also is what stands out. These are public facing people who have continued to go forward and do their jobs. You never know what's going on behind the scenes. Everybody has got something, something they're dealing with. Look back on what Tyrus shared. I mean, heartbreaking. The trust that he put in me to share all that I'll never forget and never take for granted. Gina Carano, Sharon Osbourne, even Howie Mandel. People sharing things that they have struggled with. That's the why. That's the reason why I wanted to do this show and hope to continue doing it forever and ever. So please keep commenting, liking and subscribing on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. I promise I'll do my best to keep the conversations flowing and keep them genuine and real even when you screw up. See you next week.