Before Fox News, Kennedy Had to Fight Just to Talk About Politics

Summary

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The Sage Steele Show

Episode: Before Fox News, Kennedy Had to Fight Just to Talk About Politics

Date: March 25, 2026
Host: Sage Steele
Guest: Kennedy (Fox News host, former MTV VJ)

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and wide-ranging episode, Sage Steele sits down with Kennedy—Fox News host, former MTV VJ, and cultural icon—to discuss her unconventional career path, personal philosophy, parenting, mental health, and life’s second chances. Kennedy opens up about bucking political and cultural trends in media, the resistance she encountered early in her career, her recent engagement, and lessons learned about authenticity and resilience. The conversation is a blend of hilarious anecdotes, hard-won wisdom, and heartfelt moments that transcend politics and fame.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Career, MTV, and Politics

• Kennedy’s Unique Pathway (01:45–02:11; 46:43–48:02)

  • She reveals she never graduated high school but later earned her college degrees.
  • “I didn't graduate high school. I still don't have a high school diploma.”—Kennedy (01:45)
  • Sage expresses surprise, learning Kennedy tested into community college at 28 and eventually transferred to UCLA.

• Navigating Political Ideology at MTV (41:03–43:24; 56:22–58:11)

  • Kennedy candidly discusses being a rare voice on MTV with libertarian and (formerly) Republican views.
  • She reflects on the stark difference between 1990s curiosity and today’s polarization.
  • “Back then, it was the Clinton era... MTV was working really hard to get Bill Clinton elected...I would push back against bans and against a liberal ideology.”—Kennedy (42:20)
  • Describes contractual efforts to silence her political commentary and double standards for conservative voices.

• Memorable MTV Moments (45:26–46:21)

  • Tells the story of chanting “Nixon now!” at Clinton’s inaugural ball:
    “We were chanting, Nixon now. Nixon now. As Bill Clinton came out. You’re crazy.”—Sage (45:56) “That’s what got me in trouble in high school.”—Kennedy (46:21)

• Impact & Representation (63:04–64:05)

  • Kennedy hopes her presence encouraged young women to dress for themselves and defy norms.
  • “I hope young women looked at me and went, oh, cool. I can kind of dress like a spaz and wear glasses...I hope it expanded people's norms.”—Kennedy (63:28)

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2. Parenting, Boundaries, and Generational Change

• Setting Boundaries vs. “Friend Parenting” (06:18–07:13)

  • Kennedy and Sage agree that modern parents often fear setting rules in favor of being friends, to kids’ detriment.
  • “Your job as a parent is to offer boundaries...the very best thing for them.”—Kennedy (06:24)

• Reluctant Fashion Policing (05:04–06:04)

  • Kennedy shares a humorous strategy for enforcing dress codes:
    “If you try and walk out of this house in a tube top, I'm going to put on a tube top and hot pants, and I'm going to go wait outside your high school for you.”—Kennedy (05:22)

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3. Social Norms, Judgement, and Public Decorum

• Airport and Airplane Etiquette (11:19–13:59)

  • A lively exchange about standards for public appearance, especially on planes.
  • “Do not wear to the airport what you slept in the night before. That is forbidden.”—Kennedy (12:03)
  • “Parents try to be friends... That’s part of the problem.”—Kennedy (06:24)

• Societal Shifts and “Judginess” (13:36–14:01)

  • “I don't care what you wear. Just don't touch me with it.”—Kennedy (13:57)

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4. Resilience, Mental Health, and Therapy

• Struggles with Anxiety and Panic Attacks (38:05, 79:09–81:44)

  • Kennedy recounts debilitating panic attacks and her transformative experience with dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) created by Marsha Linehan.
  • “She freed me from a prison of mental illness that I thought I was going to be locked inside of forever.”—Kennedy (81:26)
  • On therapy: “The therapy will change your brain and that will last.”—Kennedy (80:45)

• The Pressure of Creative Professions and Loss (69:12–73:05)

  • Discussing why so many artists struggle:
    “The need to hang on to that feeling is where you get in trouble. Mindfulness and living in the moment... is healthier... than chasing something.”—Kennedy (69:16)
  • Cites the tragic outcomes for musicians and the need for a better system to support vulnerable people.

• The War on Drugs and Addiction Policy (73:05–75:26)

  • Kennedy critiques superficial approaches to addiction, arguing for holistic, neuroscience-based solutions.

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5. Second Acts, New Love, and Growing Older

• Engagement and Blended Family (16:20–31:57)

  • Kennedy shares her recent engagement, the surprise proposal, and the joy of involving her daughters in her wedding.
  • She reflects on the value of partnership and the challenges and unexpected joys of marrying “later” in life.
  • “Never assume that the best is behind you. There are always phenomenal things on the horizon.”—Kennedy (86:50)

• Religion, Divorce, and Self-Acceptance (27:31–30:04)

  • Tangible differences between Catholic and Orthodox traditions regarding marriage and divorce.

• Embracing Age and Letting Go (87:18–87:41)

  • “Turning 50 is a magical threshold...I no longer care. It’s the best.”—Kennedy (87:23)

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6. Fox News, Political Discourse, and Broadcasting Philosophy

• The Transition from MTV to Political Media (65:03–66:42)

  • Kennedy explains how a talk radio job prepared her to become a political broadcaster while maintaining her interest in culture and humor.

• Skepticism Toward Power & Patriotism (38:05–40:28)

  • Dissects the difference between loving your country and blindly trusting government:
  • “You can love this country and still question your government and the decisions that are made in the dark. I think that is one of the most patriotic things you can do.”—Kennedy (39:59)
  • “If MTV were still a thing, they would not have let me in the building.”—Kennedy (43:24)

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7. Philosophy, Education, and Methodical Thinking

• Academic Journey (48:04–50:46; 51:50–52:27; 53:36)
  • Kennedy describes how philosophy shaped her logic and worldview:
  • “Philosophy helps you take things apart and put them back together and also take things apart and realize the absurdity.”—Kennedy (50:46)
  • “The most important thing I learned from philosophy was read it over and over again until you understand it.”—Kennedy (51:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I didn't graduate high school. I still don't have a high school diploma."
  — Kennedy (01:45)

• "Do not wear to the airport what you slept in the night before. That is forbidden."
  — Kennedy (12:03)

• "I am Robin Hood and I am fighting the good fight for the little man."
  — Kennedy (14:31)

• "You can love this country and still question your government and the decisions that are made in the dark."
  — Kennedy (39:59)

• "The therapy will change your brain and that will last."
  — Kennedy (80:45)

• "Never assume that the best is behind you. There are always phenomenal things on the horizon."
  — Kennedy (86:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:45–02:11 – Kennedy's unconventional educational path.
• 11:19–13:59 – Pajamas, public presentation, and social norms in airports.
• 16:20–19:24 – Surprise engagement story.
• 27:31–30:04 – Religious differences on divorce and approaching second marriages.
• 38:05–40:28; 79:09–81:44 – Military family, VA issues, patriotism, and struggles with anxiety.
• 41:03–43:24; 56:22–58:11 – Early political battles at MTV.
• 45:26–46:21 – Infamous "Nixon Now" chant at Clinton's inaugural ball.
• 48:04–52:27 – Kennedy's educational journey and the value of studying philosophy.
• 69:12–73:05 – Mental health, creativity, and artist tragedy.
• 73:05–75:26 – Drug policy and the war on drugs.
• 86:50–87:41 – Wisdom on aging and letting go of external judgment.

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Final Takeaways

• Kennedy exemplifies principled independence, resilience, and humor, refusing to be boxed in by political, social, or professional expectations.
• The episode is a celebration of embracing imperfection, forging your own path, and retaining curiosity—whether in parenting, politics, career, or personal growth.
• Both Sage and Kennedy highlight the importance of honest dialogue, community, and using newfound freedom—be it in the “F-it 50s” or in second marriages—to live authentically and joyfully.

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Transcript

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[Kennedy]

I didn't graduate high school. I still don't have high school diploma.

[Sage]

But you have college degrees.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. Oh, hello and welcome to December. I mean, I think it's time to tell you how to write your letter. There was no Snapchat. There was no TikTok. There was nothing else that competed with MTV. If MTV were still a thing, they would not have let me in the building.

[Sage]

Oh no. How did those days where you got to be on your feet impact the transition then to Fox, I didn't judge

[Kennedy]

other people because they didn't have my values. I tried to get to know why. I don't think it makes Me, a Karen. I think like, I am Robin Hood and I am fighting the good fight for the little man. Exactly. We are kind of how we are at the dinner table. You're making an appropriate joke, maybe someone's offended. But then you go down some serious road and you ask those deeper philosophical questions and you get to think about stuff. You know, I'm always skeptical of the government, and I'm always skeptical of people in charge, even if they have served. You can love this country and still question your government and the decisions that are made in the dark. And she said, the prescription will make your panic attacks go away in a couple weeks. The second you stop taking the pills, they'll come right back. She freed me from a prison of mental illness that I thought I was going to be locked inside of forever. But if I'd known you were Sax Off Fifth is going out of business, unfortunately. Yeah. But if you go to Saks off fifth now, you can get everything, like 80% off.

[Sage]

Yeah. Everywhere it's going out of business.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. That's true.

[Sage]

I think they should make the sales consistent at just sex. Sex as well. Just for like a day or two. Yeah, they're.

[Kennedy]

I think they filed for bankruptcy.

[Sage]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, they're having a tough time. And I love Saks.

[Sage]

I do, too, actually. That's where I'm okay to go. Be a little bougie, Give me an hour, and then walk back out to reality.

[Kennedy]

So you work hard. I watch this whole video from Veronica Webb where she was like, yeah, you know what? Sometimes I flex because I've worked really hard for it. And these are all mine, pointing towards jewels. And I'm like, good for you.

[Sage]

What's your flex?

[Kennedy]

Probably like. I do like a good Gucci bag here and there.

[Sage]

Do you?

[Kennedy]

Yeah, I got a great backpack at the Milan Gucci. And I was like, show me a backpack that they don't sell anywhere else in the world. And he was like, how about this one? It's red. It's green. And I was like, I'll take it.

[Sage]

It's mine.

[Kennedy]

Andiamo.

[Sage]

And did you feel guilty walking out?

[Kennedy]

No. No, I did not. Absolutely not.

[Sage]

Did that. Has that changed or evolved? Because we are two and a half months apart. Thank you very much. So.

[Kennedy]

And cheers to being fabulously mature. Yes.

[Sage]

You know what?

[Kennedy]

Amazing Gen X babies.

[Sage]

Kennedy gives me permission to day drink, so thank you. Absolutely. It changed for me more recently.

[Kennedy]

Okay.

[Sage]

The. No, it's okay. I want this. And I have worked hard.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

And sacrifice. And it's and it's okay. And it's not to show the world. If you want to see it, it's great. But it's for me. Have you always been like, who cares? Go for it.

[Kennedy]

In terms of what I wear? Yes. In terms of. Because. Because that's how my mom raised me. Like, my mom is an artist, and she was always very much like, dress for yourself. Yes, dress so you feel good. And I really internalize that. And I have tried to pass it on to my daughters, but of course.

[Sage]

And to all of America.

[Kennedy]

There were times in early high school where my daughter would wear things, and I was like, absolutely not. So finally, I was like, I tell you what, whatever you wear, I'm going to wear. So if you try and walk out of this house in a tube top, I'm going to put on a tube top and hot pants, and I'm going to go wait outside your high school for you. And she was like, no.

[Sage]

So that is brilliant. Were you concerned at some point that she was going to be like, okay, I dare you. Bring it?

[Kennedy]

Yeah, she's definitely bold enough to do that. But then one day. One day she came home, I was folding laundry, and I had one of her tube tops on my head. I'm like, look at my new headband. And she was like, stop it. Stop it right now.

[Sage]

I love you, and I wish that we had known each other then so you could have shared that with me. Because I just threatened.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

I was like, no, I'll cut you, physically cut you. And you can. You can call dcf. You can do what you want, but, like, you're not. You're not wearing that.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

And it's so. I think it's. I mean, you have to be the evil mom, especially now, where the style is to let it all out.

[Kennedy]

But that's part of the problem is parents try to be friends. Correct. And they don't. Like. Your job as a parent is to offer boundaries. And sometimes that sucks, because the person you love most in the world, you now thinks that you are enemy number one when you give them firm boundaries. But it is the very best thing for them. And it's what is lacking so much. And it's why, you know, people go to the airport and they smell. You know, it's not just the pajamas. It's. They. They actually, like, physically reek because they. They were told, like, you are so amazing. I love your little stinkums. Like, yes, let's be friends and not shower together. It's like, no, no, no. You're a mother, tell your child to go back in there, brush your hair, get in the shower, scrub, scrub, scrub. Just like it's toddlerhood all over again.

[Sage]

I am so glad you're saying this. And I heard your take, and I want you to say it again about the airport pajama things and people sitting next to us, because I'm so. I was screaming at my phone like, yes, thank you. I always was and I guess still am that judgy mom. So we're in church. I know you love going to church, right? Yeah. So we're in church, and the kids ahead of us are, you know, you stand up, you kneel down, Catholic, the whole thing. And I'm like. To my kid, I'm like, see that? See that? That's called greasy, dirty hair. Jesus doesn't like that. This is why when I tell you to shower every day, if not twice, that's why you want to look like that.

[Kennedy]

Do you? Yeah.

[Sage]

And literally, I mean, I. I don't feel bad about that to this day. And I do judge. The problem is with women, it's like, okay, dry shampoo, you're fine. What's that line? Dry shampoo, to me, is just covering the gross.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, it. It depends. I mean, if. If your scalp is super greasy, then you can just shampoo your scalp. Like, you don't have to wash, like, every strand.

[Sage]

How do you do that?

[Kennedy]

You just. You just take it, and. And it's, like, targeted. It's targeted harassment. And then do you have. Do you have this round thing in the shower? It's. It's. It's like a hockey puck with rubber spikes. Yeah. And it's like, that is amazing because, like, that gets everything into your scalp. Then you rinse. Then you go all with water. With lovely water.

[Sage]

You know what? But then all. What happens to the rest of the. This. It gets wet, and then you're starting over.

[Kennedy]

That's okay.

[Sage]

Do you see this?

[Kennedy]

No. It's beautiful. It's glorious.

[Sage]

Way too much.

[Kennedy]

Your hair is a wonderland.

[Sage]

Thank you. It needs to be covered. I need that. So it's okay to be judgy in that way, I think. Not like I'm not gonna say it to their face.

[Kennedy]

I mean, it's human. We have to take how we survive. Like, you have to make judgment calls everywhere in the world. Like, if you live your life in judgment of others, it is going to come back to you, and it's going to feel horribly. But, like, do you want to be judgmental and bitter? No. But do you want to make judgment calls every day in order to keep yourself clean and healthy and safe? Absolutely.

[Sage]

And to teach your child how and why you should be clean.

[Kennedy]

I taught my children from a very young age living in New York City. There was a naked man across the street and I told them, get away from him right now. If a man is walking around naked in public, he will throw his feces. So get as far away from him as you possibly can.

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[Kennedy]

I love classy pajamas. I always have. When I started at MTV in the early 90s, I wore pajamas all the time. Late at night. I loved them. The MTV stylist thought it was great because they were fairly inexpensive and they could get me a bunch that I could see cycle through them. And I I think it is a cool chic look. A good friend of mine who is A designer. She makes these beautiful high end silk pajamas and they're glorious.

[Sage]

Wanna plug her?

[Kennedy]

Yeah. Heidi Merrick. Heidi Marek.com. she's an incredible designer. So if you are wearing something like that to the airport, I don't have a problem. I don't have a problem if you're wearing squishy pants from Costco. Polar fleece.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

Like, how about it? That's fine. Do not wear to the airport what you slept in the night before.

[Sage]

Thank you.

[Kennedy]

That is forbidden. And that is a cultural more. That does not have to be a law. That doesn't mean that the city of Tampa has to pass a mandate. And you know Crocs. No, I know. And they're very funny about Crocs. But I do have a pair of Adidas Crocs and they're super comfy.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

And if you, if you don't have TSA or clear and you gotta take your shoes off, Crocs are a great option.

[Sage]

They're perfect.

[Kennedy]

But not for men. For children and women, they're fine. Men look creepy in Crocs.

[Sage]

I will judge.

[Kennedy]

You always think of Brett Favre in Crocs. Always.

[Sage]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. That visual, that takes me back. I do. Okay. My mother was a flight attendant in the early 1970s. Eastern Airlines.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. So she saw people like dressed up.

[Sage]

Yes, yes. Travel was a privilege. It was elegant. And you care. Like, it's a statement that you're making and it's flight attendants. I mean, very different time when they made them get on scales, you know.

[Kennedy]

Oh, my garden.

[Sage]

Oh, yes. And the hair. And part of me kind of likes it. Not the scale part, but I'm talking about. Put your hair back like you're serving me food. Well, that's very few flights now. But what, two rows maybe otherwise, like, I don't know. It is a public facing job and you are serving the flight attendant. Stewart is what they used to call them.

[Kennedy]

Right.

[Sage]

Pretend like you care. And so I think in general, not just with air travel, like the standards have been lowered so much where you don't want to offend someone to say you shouldn't wear that on a plane if you, if you haven't, whatever it might be. Right.

[Kennedy]

Yes. The fact that people were so offended by that and it's like it's not your bedroom, like, and don't treat it like that. Like you're, you're still in a very socially awkward setting. People are still terrified of flying and you are assaulting them with your personal aroma. And it's like I don't. I don't care what you wear. Just don't touch me with it.

[Sage]

That's seriously personal aroma. Yeah.

[Kennedy]

And people who flip their hair over the back of the seat onto people's screens, like, hey, man, I have cuticle scissors in my bag. Like, I'll. I'll weed whack that thing if I have to, cousin it.

[Sage]

Would you. You would say something? I would, yeah. Have you. Has there ever been, like, a confrontation on a plane?

[Kennedy]

I don't like confrontation. But I will always say something. If someone tries to get from several rows back and cut people off, I will be like, nope, absolutely not.

[Sage]

Thank you.

[Kennedy]

And I'll be like, you've been to Disneyland, right?

[Sage]

100%.

[Kennedy]

You know that we all have to wait in line, right? Like, they get off first, and then we go behind them. Like, it's all. And then people go, like, it's all going to work out. Like, we're all going to get off. Exactly. And I'm going to get off before you, and you're going to wait your turn. Exactly. But when people, like when. When you've been waiting patiently for your boarding group and you're ready to go and someone tries to cut you off, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. And I am that lady. And it's like, I don't think it makes me a Karen. I think, like, I am Robin Hood and I am fighting the good fight for the little man. Exactly. Because people try and cut in line. I'm like, no, no. There's a line.

[Sage]

I know. Sometimes I feel like, okay, because my kids are like, mom, just stop. Let it go. I go, no, it is principle. And the reason they do it is because they've never been. Stop bad parenting. Because good parenting, like, they wouldn't even try that when they're 30 if they were taught.

[Kennedy]

No, they're. They're taking advantage of a system. And. And I love when people are in boarding group four and they try to board with boarding group one. And I love when the gate agent is like, we haven't called your group yet. And I'm like, facial discretion. Because they all try to do it. And they're like, so true.

[Sage]

Do you know that I. If I see that person coming up and they're like, well, I have a tight connection. I'm like, so do the 16 rows ahead of you. Every point of dad. At least every other one, I'll step right out in the aisle and block them. Yeah. And then I play dumb and I'm used nine times out of 10, I'm bigger than most of them. Like, I'm taller than you.

[Kennedy]

How are you?

[Sage]

I'm five' eleven.

[Kennedy]

Oh, nice.

[Sage]

And then add a few inches for hair and shoes.

[Kennedy]

That's absolutely right.

[Sage]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kennedy]

Body a person.

[Sage]

And I will.

[Kennedy]

Or this.

[Sage]

Or the. Oh, sorry about the backpack, which I hate when people do that to me. But there's just rules that. Unwritten rules and just socio. Like, social norms, I feel like that have been known about.

[Kennedy]

They absolutely know it.

[Sage]

They just don't think they're gonna be called in it. One thing I did not know the last time I saw you is that. Hello, can I see again?

[Kennedy]

Hello, darling.

[Sage]

You had gotten engaged the day before.

[Kennedy]

We did your show the night before, and it was a total surprise.

[Sage]

It was.

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

What did he do?

[Kennedy]

So I hadn't told anyone, so I'm honored.

[Sage]

Even though I didn't know. Yeah.

[Kennedy]

But you were like, what is that? Like, on my podcast, while we're, like, in progress. Oh, my gosh.

[Sage]

I didn't know.

[Kennedy]

She was. Yeah, my podcast producer was like, what?

[Sage]

And I was like, I should have googled that or looked beforehand. And no, it was the night before.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, you were the first person.

[Sage]

And then I told her earlier. I was like, that you shouldn't have come to work. That's like a national holiday the day after you get engaged. What did he do?

[Kennedy]

I take tomorrow off.

[Sage]

Okay.

[Kennedy]

It was very, very sweet because I was not expecting it. He did everything on his own and, like, down to the sizing, the cut, like, everything. I was, like, shocked. So what he was trying to do was get my girls. One of them is very chatty, and one of them, we believe, works for the CIA. She's a little bit more mellow. She's very, very mellow. But she has a mysterious life. She's an avid reader. But the chatty one, you can't tell her because she would come and tell me if he was like, hey, you know, let's do this thing. So he was trying to get both girls together to go pick out the Christmas tree down the street, bring it back, put it up. And then he was going to propose, and we could not get. And I didn't know we were trying. I'm like, dude, let's just you and I go get it. Like, you and I are great at Christmas trees. And he was like, yeah. And he was like, so. And I couldn't figure out where the frustration was coming from. And so we got home, and one would be there to help put the lights on and then the other would help put ornaments on. So at the Fox Christmas party, he was like, come have dinner with me. And I was like, looking around, it's like, there's no gluten free food here. Okay. So I went and had dinner with him, and it was this amazing, like, seafood extravaganza. And it was. We had friends there and it was so much fun. And then we're in an Uber home, and he was like, let's stop and see this one Christmas tree at this hotel on Madison. I'm like, oh, that sounds amazing. So we went there, and St. Patrick's is in the background. And Emily Compagno's mom had just passed away, and she and I had gone to St Patrick's multiple times every week to pray for her mom, to pray for our families. And it had become a really important refuge for me. And to see that in the background. And I didn't know what was happening. And he's like, isn't this a beautiful night? I'm like, this is a beautiful night. He's like, isn't this a perfect night? I'm like, it really is because we're in this Courtyard, Beautiful Tree, St Patrick's There's Christmas music playing. And the courtyard just emptied out on its own. Like, there were people there taking in the tree. And all of a sudden it was just the two of us. And then he pulled the ring out of his pocket. And I was like, what? And I was. He just kept going, is this happening? Is that real? Is this real? He was like, give me an answer. So.

[Sage]

So I didn't realize how exposed I was online until I actually started paying attention. Every search, every site, every click, somebody's watching. That's why I now use ExpressVPN. It's one of those tools that you don't think you need until you turn it on. And you never want to be without it. So your Internet service provider can see and log basically everything you do online. And in the US they can legally sell that data to advertisers or data brokers. Even worse, whoever owns the wifi you're using can see your entire browsing history, even when you're using incognito mode. ExpressVPN fixes that by encrypting and rerouting 100% of your Internet traffic through secure servers, creating a private tunnel between your device and the Internet. This means that your ISP can't log your activity, and they'll have nothing useful to sell to advertisers or data brokers. It Also means that your browsing history will also be a total mystery to whoever owns the WI Fi. So I travel a lot for the show, so I have to be very careful about my online privacy. ExpressVPN gives me such peace of mind. It's insanely fast. It works on all my devices, lets me connect multiple devices at once, and certain plans even include a password manager and identity protection. Plus, their trusted server technology means that they can't store your activity logs. Find out how you can get up to four extra months free by clicking the link in the description, scanning the QR code on screen, or going to expressvpn.com sage that's expressvpn.com sage protect your privacy and take back control of your Internet. Today he got his knee. Yeah, he did the whole thing.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sage]

And you eventually said yes, but you were shocked.

[Kennedy]

I was shocked.

[Sage]

Why were you so surprised? I mean, you guys had discussed it.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, we had discussed it, but he. We hadn't really talked, like, timelines or anything. And so. And I think, you know, I just assume, like, oh, I'm gonna know, like, I'm gonna feel it, and I'm gonna know, like, when we're inching closer. And I was like, holy cow. And it was like a Wednesday or something. And it was. It was amazing. And it just. It felt so incredible and so complete, and it was such a beautiful moment. And I know nowadays, like, you know, you're supposed to have a photographer in the bushes and, you know, do some big post. And I love that it was just

[Sage]

us, so it was not the Taylor Swift, Travis Kelce. Let's recreate the garden.

[Kennedy]

No, there was no recreation.

[Sage]

Yeah, it's perfect. It's, like, organic, Right. And natural. And it wasn't all about getting dolled up.

[Kennedy]

Right.

[Sage]

That's how mine was, too. And I just feel like I wouldn't change a thing. It was exactly how he drew it up for you. Right. So did you ever think that you'd want to get married again?

[Kennedy]

Yes, because I love being in a partnership.

[Sage]

I hated dating.

[Kennedy]

Like, dating is the worst. And I know it is very necessary if you're going to make a romantic connection. I've never been on a dating app, and a lot of my friends are like, oh, no, just do it. And I. I was terrified that I would get, like, hazed if. If I went on a dating app as, like, a fox person, because our world is so divided, and. And I actually. I met a. A matchmaker. And you would not believe how much money they want. To give you four dates.

[Sage]

What?

[Kennedy]

Yes. I mean, it is thousands and thousands of dollars. And luckily, I didn't do that. So it got to the point where they showed me a few guys, and I was like, ew, no, I'd rather be alone and move to a convent.

[Sage]

That bad?

[Kennedy]

Yeah. And make lavender soap.

[Sage]

Yes. But they would have. It would have been procured, like, specifically for you. Right. And then, of course, it's a different. These are probably like the Millionaire matchmakers. Like, we see the shows and the Instagram profiles where, well, we're going bring you a certain type of man. So therefore, this is what it's going to cost.

[Kennedy]

I guess so. Yeah. But it was just like, they. You know, it's like, this guy's 65 and he's bald, but he seems really fun. And I was like, what has become of my life?

[Sage]

And I'm paying you to say this and to give these out as my choice.

[Kennedy]

That's the guy. All right, ladies, here's Grandpa. You know, it's like, I bring him home. Here's your new stepdad.

[Sage]

I mean it. And I was single for six years after my divorce. And how long for you? Long time.

[Kennedy]

Three years.

[Sage]

From divorce to now.

[Kennedy]

From. Because I had a boyfriend after.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

Like an interim.

[Sage]

Right. Yeah. Right, right. Okay. Yeah. So. So, I mean, I don't know about you. Yeah. I did get to the point where I'm like, you know what? Maybe someday, but maybe not. And you hope you meet someone. Like, okay, whatever God's plan is was my belief and what I led with. And then you go, okay, am I too old to go do this? And, oh, yeah, I'm engaged. I feel like I'm 25 again. Right.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

And then planning a wedding, which was super exciting, but we did it so fast that it was, like, here and gone in a second.

[Kennedy]

But that's the nice thing about. A friend of mine called it a starter wedding. Like, when you've already had a starter wedding.

[Sage]

Yes.

[Kennedy]

And that has to be the most perfect day of your life. And everything has to be perfect, because then when you get married again, you're, like, cool. Like, let's go. I just want a dance party. Exactly. I want to profess my love in front of the people most important to me in the world. And, you know, have that blessed. And then just rage. Like, that's. I don't need, like, the perfect little me. I know.

[Sage]

Wait, what is the knees?

[Kennedy]

I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure. But I don't want that. No way.

[Sage]

Bags at your first wedding.

[Kennedy]

Like, what is that? We're not doing that. We're not doing pterodactyl arms. Like, none of it.

[Sage]

Dress.

[Kennedy]

I will wear a dress. Yeah. I'm opting out of the tuxedo this time. Yeah. Okay.

[Sage]

And I was like, don't laugh. She's not that funny. Okay. I'm kidding. She's killing me. So I. I was like, no, I'm 52. When I got married, I don't need a white dress. I don't need the fl. And then I put on this dress. I'm like, sobbing, by the way, in a bridal shop by myself. Cause I was returning a package next door, and I was like, oh, maybe I'm three months out. Maybe at some point I should shop for a dress.

[Kennedy]

Oh, wow.

[Sage]

And walked in by myself.

[Kennedy]

And you found one off the rack?

[Sage]

Well, yeah, off the rack. And then it. I mean, needed some work. Fine. But I was like, you know, you're supposed to have all your friends and your aunties.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. It's your first time. Sure. Absolutely.

[Sage]

But then I thought, ok, this time, how cool to do it with my daughters. Yeah. You have two daughters as well. And I have a son who wouldn't have had any interest in that and do it that way again for them to get to experience. And then I walked in and I was like, I freaking love it. And it is white as white gets. And with flowers and stuff that I thought.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

And it just happened the opposite way of what I was expecting and planning for a second marriage.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

So do you have your dress?

[Kennedy]

It's in process. Yeah.

[Sage]

So you're going all out?

[Kennedy]

No, A friend of mine is a designer. And you have a lot of designer friends. Yeah. And she's kind enough to make my dress, but she knows what I want. Like, it's not puffy, it's not structured, it's not fussy. I'm not changing.

[Sage]

Right, Right.

[Kennedy]

And I told her, like, I want something that I can dance in, and if it. If there is a breeze, it can pick up the wind. And she was like, great.

[Sage]

It's you.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

Do you know that you're gonna be doing anything in particular that you took from that first one where you're like, definitely should do this again? Hell, no, I'm not. I'm not doing this, you know?

[Kennedy]

No, no. There's no. There's no.

[Sage]

Nothing.

[Kennedy]

No correlation, really, between them.

[Sage]

What do you think? For your daughters to be witnessing? Oh, they.

[Kennedy]

They love him. And they're gonna be my Bridesmaids. And they're very excited about that. Yeah. It's amazing. Like, it's incredible. Like, it truly is meant to be.

[Sage]

You know, as Catholic, I've. It's this whole. All the rules and things that. That's a.

[Kennedy]

In the Eastern Orthodox Church, you can get divorced four times.

[Sage]

Oh, I'm definitely the wrong religion. I'm definitely worse than that. Well, we.

[Kennedy]

We recite the Nicene Creed. We believe in one holy catholic apostolic church. Yes.

[Sage]

So what's the magic number? About four?

[Kennedy]

I don't know. That's like, that's the rules. It's like you can actually take. You can get divorced in the Orthodox Church. You can use contraception. The priest can marry.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

It's great.

[Sage]

I like that.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. And you still have all the ritual and the incense and, you know, being in a constant state of prayer. It's very mystical and there is a very deep, unmediated connection with God.

[Sage]

I. I didn't know that.

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

And I love that. And I remember being angry and having a great conversation with my priest from where I used to live in Connecticut about the fact that I'm not allowed to get married in a Catholic church for a second time unless I get a first one.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

And I'm like, so this is a man made man written rule. Yeah. For sure. To say that this never happened.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

When in actuality, like, of course it did.

[Kennedy]

And you produce children.

[Sage]

Like, why would you erase that?

[Kennedy]

Yeah. And it's. You still. You can honor the relationship that you had.

[Sage]

Yes.

[Kennedy]

Even if it is no longer.

[Sage]

My mom knows I'm interviewing you today. She literally is calling right now to probably talk to you. We're gonna wait. We're gonna say no, but go ahead.

[Kennedy]

The romantic part of your life is done with that person. But you will always be partners as parents.

[Sage]

Always.

[Kennedy]

Good or bad, doesn't matter. You can strongly dislike each other, but you will still always be partners.

[Sage]

And so to be forced to delete

[Kennedy]

that and just to say that never happened. Yeah.

[Sage]

To make. To make some, you know, I don't know, priests over here or deacons. Happy with what they think. No. So I chose not to. Yeah. And we did a private ceremony. And actually, do you know Chris Harrison from the Bachelor?

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

He's lovely. Dear friend of mine.

[Kennedy]

I love that guy.

[Sage]

He married us. Awesome. Like, we made it. We had a faith aspect to this. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know. I trust that God is blessing this marriage just because it's not in the Catholic Church. Like, I really I really do trust that. And I just thought all these judgments that come with divorce and, and a second marriage, you know. Yeah. I don't know. It was like, very therapeutic to say, sorry, screw everybody, and like, what you think we should do. This is beautiful that I'm getting a

[Kennedy]

second chance at this.

[Sage]

And point being sorry, long story is that for my kids to get to sit there and witness that, like, first time they're not around, you know, or maybe it depends right in the situation for sure. But like, they're too small maybe to appreciate it. Like, your girls now are how old?

[Kennedy]

Almost 17 and 20.

[Sage]

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[Kennedy]

I don't know, but I'm really, I'm really excited to see because, like, I'm a sentimental crier, but I'm also a big believer that you should cry on your wedding day. Like, if you feel it, like, that is the Holy Spirit, like, coming through you in the most, like, genuine way. Like, and, you know, let the tears christen your face.

[Sage]

Yeah, it's it doesn't matter if you paid 500 bucks for a makeup artist. It's okay if the mascara runs.

[Kennedy]

No, they make waterproof everything.

[Sage]

Yeah. Yes, they do. Thank goodness. But are you excited? Are you nervous?

[Kennedy]

I'm really excited. I'm excited because, like, there's not a lot of pressure.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

And it's like, we just want to have a glorious time. We have fun no matter where we go. We do. Whether it's like NASCAR or, you know, going to Turks and Caicos, we always have fun. Like, we could go to the fights at Madison Square Garden. We go see darts. Like, we always have a good time.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

And of course, you know, West Point football.

[Sage]

Okay, explain that. This is one of the first questions you asked me on her show, Kennedy Saves America back in December, because Army, Navy saves America.

[Kennedy]

The world.

[Sage]

Excuse me? The world. America. We know. The entire world. I screwed up the title. Kennedy Saves the Universe.

[Kennedy]

Well, eventually, we're working, we're getting there, we're building there.

[Sage]

Exactly. Thank you. The West Point tie in for you is what?

[Kennedy]

So my sexy teenage fiance is a West Pointer. And his story is incredible because he came from a working class family where no one went to college. He was not expected to go to college, even though he was incredibly bright and very athletic. And West Point was not too far from where he grew up. And he would look over and he said to his uncle when he was about 12 years old, like, I'm going to go there someday. And he's like, no, you're not. You're gonna drive truck like we do. And he was like. And that, like, somehow gave him motivation. And when his West Point application, when his letter of acceptance came in the mail, it's like a big, like, army green giant envelope. The mailman brought it to him and said, you cannot open this alone.

[Sage]

No way. Oh, my.

[Kennedy]

Isn't that Sweeze? And I love that. And. So he went. He did an amazing job as an engineer. I studied aerospace engineering. And he was like, oh, this is great. I'll finish my time at West Point. I'll serve my five years in Hawaii as an engineer at Schofield Barracks, and that'll be awesome. What a great life. You know, college is paid for. You know, I'm serving my country, beat Navy, like. And then he graduated in June of 2001. And then 9, 11 happened just a couple months later. And of course, you know, he was now an officer. So he was sent to airborne school, he was sent to Ranger school, and eventually sent to Afghanistan in 2004. 2005, which was a horrible time in the war.

[Sage]

How much does he talk about that time?

[Kennedy]

He talks about it when he's ready to. That's not something that I press him about. And he will talk about people that he served with. He will talk about. He told me a very funny story the other day. He said that because, you know, they're talking about the coalition and who is fighting with whom right now against Iran. And he was telling me that the French and the Romanian soldiers always stole the Americans ice cream. And he said it was 120 degrees in Kandahar and they only got ice cream shipped once a month, and the Romanians would come and take 20 tubs of ice cream. And he was very mad at them.

[Sage]

He has not forgotten who stole.

[Kennedy]

That story was so funny because he was, you know, he was telling me how, you know, the international coalition is very funny because different troops from different countries, obviously, like, they're trained differently. They have different values.

[Sage]

And. And he'll.

[Kennedy]

I don't think he'll ever forgive the Romanians for the French. And I'm half Romanian. Like, my mom is 100 Romanian, so.

[Sage]

Don't you have a tattoo, like a flag? Yeah. Where is it?

[Kennedy]

On my ankle. That one's on my ankle.

[Sage]

And the other one that is on

[Kennedy]

my hip, that's my little Republican elephant that I got when I was 18. Yeah.

[Sage]

Which is amazing.

[Kennedy]

It looks like a pig at this point.

[Sage]

It's more.

[Kennedy]

Nope. Even like it's an elephant with teeny, tiny pig legs. So I think what the tattoo artist did was he had a pig stencil and he just added a long.

[Sage]

Like a trunk? Yes. Okay.

[Kennedy]

It went from snout to trunk. And I looked at it and I was like, this is amazing. And then one of my friends, like, that looks like a pig. And I was like, why would you say that? And he's like, that's a pig. A fentanyl. And I'm like, no, that's mean. And it hurts my feelings that I can't unsee it.

[Sage]

And now you can't unsee it. Exactly. So, kids, when you go off and get tattoos when you're 18, as my daughter got several.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

A fairy that now looks like just a blob of green ink on her ankle. Invest go to a good tattoo.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. That's the lesson. Know what you want. Live with it for at least a year, you know, and think about it every, every day. Do I really want to wake up and see, like, an eagle on my neck with its wings on my Arms

[Sage]

like maybe as we shrivel up at 65 in our stages. Yes.

[Kennedy]

With Pterodactyl.

[Sage]

You're back to that. Such a good look. How long did he serve?

[Kennedy]

10 years.

[Sage]

One.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

Okay.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. So 97 at the beginning of West Point until 2007.

[Sage]

Wow.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

He saw a lot.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. Oh, yes.

[Sage]

So I imagine your conversations, you know, times like this are different than a lot of people in your life. Right. Because of his experience and what he knows that happens in war.

[Kennedy]

Yes. And so much of. Because I already had, you know, a libertarian, pro capitalism, anti war foundation to begin with, and, you know, going to different military events with him and meeting different people, warriors who are truly the bravest and best among us. How our government has at times betrayed them and not respected their lives and sent them into battle haphazardly. And, you know, I'm always skeptical of the government, and I'm always skeptical of people in charge, even if they have served, because, you know, we don't know what informs those decisions. But I always question them because I don't want other people to have those experiences where they are fighting the VA for the next 20 years.

[Sage]

Exactly.

[Kennedy]

To be seen. And, you know, it's such an impossibility seeing one clinician at the VA because they have such a high turnover rate. And, you know, even though the government will promise something, they will find an exception. They will find a reason to deny you service. And, you know, it's like we pay a lot of lip service to veterans, but when it matters most, they are oftentimes left behind. Absolutely.

[Sage]

And I think that sometimes people confuse it, like, okay, these are actual issues. And because we, your fiance, my husband, my father, uncles, lived it. Trust me when I'm saying that this is part of the system, even if it's sometimes inadvertent. And by pointing it out and trying to hold people accountable does not mean that you aren't patriotic and fully supportive of the military and the United States of America and to represent it. But these things need to be addressed. And sometimes I feel like people make it an either or.

[Kennedy]

No, it's not an either or because you can be patriotic, you can love this country and still question your government and the decisions that are made in the dark. I think that is one of the most patriotic things you can do. And, you know, it's like, my family came over here to have a better life, and people who are running this country deserve to take the government and get it out of the way so other people can thrive, not put people in harm's way when they really shouldn't be there?

[Sage]

Absolutely.

[Kennedy]

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[Kennedy]

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[Sage]

You know, I remember, gosh, all those years ago, since we are the same age and the same person, basically, when I saw you, as millions of us did in the early 90s when you took over when you were VJ at MTV. And from the beginning, like, you've just always been so seemingly sure of who you are and your beliefs and your why behind them. But in 92, when you went to MTV, okay, I was in college. I was a sophomore, allegedly, since I went five years, whatever that equaled out to in 92. Like what, 20 years old? Yeah, we were turning. We were 20 years old. You were a baby. Yes.

[Kennedy]

You don't think so when you're 20, right? I think we're all that fully formed

[Sage]

and not even halfway. And for you to go into that level of the media back in 92 at age 20 with your political beliefs, I assumed that they were pretty formed at that point. Can you take me back there? Because people today, of course, this is a whole different world, one that we never thought we'd see and in many ways I wish that we hadn't. Right. Yeah. But back then, to be definitive about who you are and what you believed and why, but be going into this world, especially at mtv, that probably didn't have many people who thought like you.

[Kennedy]

No. And, and it was, you know, at first I was kind of an oddity, like, oh, that's funny, a Republican named Kennedy. And, and I'm. I'm no longer a Republican. I'm an unaffiliated voter. I don't. I'm a woman without a party. And that's okay. But back then it was the Clinton era, so MTV was working really hard to get Bill Clinton elected. Like, they wanted to turn the page on the Reagan Bush years because, you know, we had a lot of boomers running mtv and they wanted their young boomer presidents to be in the White House. And, you know, they wanted credit for it and they got it. And, you know, I would push back against bans and I would push back against a liberal ideology and, you know, this mindless politicization which people who aren't very well read assume that everyone else agrees with their politics. But still, back then there was much more curiosity than there is now. Yeah, like if MTV were still a thing, they would not have let me in the building.

[Sage]

Oh, no.

[Kennedy]

You know, and if I had said one positive thing about President Trump, then I would have been completely blackballed. And, you know, and I have lost a lot of friends in music and broadcasting because I work for Fox News. And they just assume and it. And I'm like, when I actually get to talk to someone, I explain to them my politics really haven't changed. Like, I was very libertarian back then. I was very accepting of other people. And you know, I lived a life without judgment as much as possible while still maintaining my core values. I didn't judge other people because they didn't have my values. I tried to get to know why and. Exactly. And now that my values are pretty much the same. Some have evolved, some have changed a little bit. Maybe there's a little bit more nuance and thought behind it because of experience, because of having kids and experiencing loss in a couple of different avenues. But the point is, like, I'm still who I was. Like, you are the ones who decided that there is a trench in between us and you are on the other side and there's nothing that will bridge the gulf. And that makes me so sad because I don't know how we recover from that because I think our politics are very similar to people's behavior patterns from COVID Like they are so dug in that it's going to be impossible to get the wagon on another track.

[Sage]

Yeah. And that's what breaks my heart too. But not to the point of being willing to be quiet again and to not. And to just go back to being in that pleaser mode. I don't think you were ever there, thank God. Maybe in your childhood, et cetera. But to have all that in your mind and clear in. In 92 starting off. And what year was it when you were on stage, Clinton's being introduced and you yell out Nixon.

[Kennedy]

Oh, that was. That was the inauguration.

[Sage]

That was the inaugural ball.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, that was the MTV inaugural ball, which was the most star studded thing I have ever been to. I mean, it was like Robert De Niro Bono, Martha Stewart, like Tom Brokaw. It was Sarah Jessica Parker and Matthew Broderick. Like it was the craziest, most star studded thing I have ever been to in my life. It was insane. And there were a couple young Republicans in Front of the stage and we were chanting, Nixon now. Nixon now.

[Sage]

As Bill Clinton came out. You're crazy.

[Kennedy]

Because Nixon was still alive.

[Sage]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Kennedy]

At that point, he was still alive.

[Sage]

But even then, like that.

[Kennedy]

He died later that year.

[Sage]

He did 92.

[Kennedy]

93.

[Sage]

Excuse me, 93. That's gender. 93.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sage]

Like, even then, like, that took cojones. That took Paul's to do that. I mean, you were young, but that

[Kennedy]

was like, you know, it's like I hung out with punk rockers. Like, the whole point was, you know, just to fly the bird at authority. It's like that's what got me in trouble in high school. Like, I was smart but not a good student because I thought it was stupid. So it's like I didn't do the busy work because I knew the busy work wasn't teaching me how to think and it wasn't getting me anywhere.

[Sage]

You got in trouble in high school?

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

Give me one. I shouldn't be. I shouldn't be shocked.

[Kennedy]

Oh, talking in class. Just talking in class. Jackassing in class. You know, it's like screwing around, making, you know, doing strange voices and. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's like you have teachers who are like, I'm going to teach you the meaning of the word respect. And for some reason, like, that set me off. And I was like, no, you're not, because you're a buffoon and I can see right through you. And you're mad because I'm 14 years old and I can see right through you. That's what's really lighting your jockstrap on fire.

[Sage]

And your mother would say, what?

[Kennedy]

Well, it depends. So my mom was a teacher for a long time, and she would sub at my high school, so she knew all the principals and all the teachers and the attendance lady. Like, she knew everyone. She knew how that place worked, and she knew there were good teachers and she knew there were buffoons. So if one of the buffoons came after me, she was like, I'll write you a note.

[Sage]

Wow, I love that. Yeah. But empowering you at that young age,

[Kennedy]

she's like, hey, you get a seed, that's on you.

[Sage]

Yeah, but somehow you.

[Kennedy]

I didn't graduate high school. I still don't have a high school diploma.

[Sage]

But you have college degrees.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

How does that happen?

[Kennedy]

So when I finally went to community college when I was 28, I just tested into math and English.

[Sage]

They're like, 28, so you don't need a GED. You know, they just didn't need a GED. I didn't know that.

[Kennedy]

And so, no. And then I just started taking classes. And then I started doing really well and took more classes. And then I was like, I think I'm going to get a degree. And so I did two years at Santa Monica College and then two years

[Sage]

at ucla, which UCLA is a tough school to get into.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. And at the time, we looked this up because my fiance's always like, oh, West Point. And so one day we asked Alexa which school was harder to get into.

[Sage]

It is not ucla.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. UCLA had a lower acceptance rate than West Point at the years that we were.

[Sage]

No way.

[Kennedy]

At that point.

[Sage]

Yes. So you can hold on your big green envelope.

[Kennedy]

Right?

[Sage]

That's amazing. Yeah. I couldn't have gotten in with a high school diploma and with the test scores I couldn't have gotten. Well, no, I'm talking ucla West.

[Kennedy]

No, no. It's like any. Any. Yeah, There's. There's no way. Like, my girls, I'm like, don't. Don't even try. Like, it was a different time. And also they wanted non traditional students. Non traditional being over 25.

[Sage]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Kennedy]

The professors in community college loved the non trads because we would go to office hours because we wanted the knowledge we wouldn't just go the week before the test. Like, we were there all the time, like, you know, really trying to figure out some of the problems that were raised in class. Neil Vaughan was in my history class.

[Sage]

Shut up.

[Kennedy]

Yes. We studied together a bunch.

[Sage]

How old was he?

[Kennedy]

He was 18.

[Sage]

Oh, my gosh. He went to class.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, he did. The. The. The history professor that we had loved me and Theo because we paid attention. We asked questions. His questions were always, like, out there. I don't think he was a comic yet. Like, it's funny because in my history book, I still have his number. I don't know if it's his working number, but it's like, Theo. And then it was Tomi Lahren who was like, do you know who Theo Vaughn is? I'm like, oh, yeah, he's super funny. And she's like, he was in Mr. Cavill's history class with you. I was like, I totally remember him. There were three of us who studied together in that class.

[Sage]

That's one of them. That's crazy. I imagine him as being super curious. Like, when you talk about asking questions and stuff and actually participating.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't one of the people, like, fighting with the professor.

[Sage]

Right. But asking, like, receiving. That's crazy. But you Get a philosophy degree?

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

As soon as I learned that, I'm like, I could totally see that because you are so quick witted and so talented in many ways, but you're observing everything at all times. So how does that philosophy degree help you today?

[Kennedy]

Philosophy helps you take things apart and put them back together and also take things apart and realize the absurdity. Like that was, you know, learning the reductio ad absurdum, which is just like starting with the premise you know is false and then working backward. So it's like, I will grant you that socialism is a great idea. However, and then you work backwards and go, but you're, you have a high taxation rate and you know that correlates with higher crime and your tax based leaving and how. And so you just basically work backwards until you get to the point where you've proven how the initial premise is absurd and false.

[Sage]

So you use that every day?

[Kennedy]

Yeah, I use, I like. Do I talk about philosophy every day? No, but I use like philosophic methods every day to think about things. And also if I don't understand something, the most important thing I learned from philosophy was read it over and over again until you understand it and take every word of a sentence apart until you understand what that sentence is saying.

[Sage]

Wow.

[Kennedy]

And I learned that studying Kant, like, even though like, obviously I didn't study Kant and German. But it's, it's very difficult to read and process. And our professor was like, the key to this is to really understand the definitions of each word. So philosophy is not pleasure reading. Like you don't plow through 200 pages. Like you could be working on two paragraphs for hours. And so, and that's really helpful because if I don't understand something like say a Supreme Court decision, because they're always very confusing.

[Sage]

Yes, they are.

[Kennedy]

I did not go to law school. Yeah, yeah. So I will, I will take things apart and read it until it makes sense.

[Podcast Host]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Kennedy]

Hey.

[Dan Morgan]

How's it going today?

[Podcast Host]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently. It said 20 billion wonder. 20 million is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Podcast Host]

Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting. Need to take your call 24 7, 365.

[Kennedy]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[Sage]

So that's every single day when you're on outnumbered or the 5 or whatever it is. I mean, I imagine you're using this multiple times a day. Yeah. These philosophy, the methods.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. Especially if, if you come up against someone and there's something about their argument that just doesn't sit well. It just doesn't make sense. And it's finding the weakness and their argument and then, you know, redirecting it and go, well, what if, you know, what if we actually did this? What if this person actually intended that? You know, why do you assume that the person you have a political disagreement with has bad intentions?

[Sage]

Right. Did you ever think about getting a law degree?

[Kennedy]

I did when I was in college, but then I got pregnant my senior year intentionally and I was like, I'm not gonna go do more college. Like, what am I gonna do with a law degree? Like, I wanted to get back into broadcasting. It's like, that's lucrative, like that's fun. And you know, I wanted a stable job. Like I wanted something, you know, not where you're hustling and auditioning every day because that's a grind. And you know, there are people who do that and it's, it's a tougher way to make money. I wanted something either radio or a day to day TV job that was stable.

[Sage]

Take me back to 96 and the, the RNC.

[Kennedy]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Sage]

On stage, speaking at the Republican National Convention.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, that was. I would have definitely worked on my speech more. I met George H.W. bush that year. He was really cool. And someone's like, oh, this is Kennedy, she works at mtv, she's a Republican. He goes, must be lonely at that outfit. Which I thought was really funny and kind of true. Yeah.

[Sage]

I was like, yeah, it's true.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. And I met George W. Bush who was very distracted. And then once he found out I worked at mtv, he was like, ah, la la la la la la. Yeah. Because he was Governor of Texas at that point. Yeah. And I was like, you'll be president in four years. No one knew that then, but sure. No, but you and Bob Dole was the nominee, and he was a dumpling. What does that mean? He was kind and sweet.

[Sage]

A dumpling sweet. It's a compliment.

[Kennedy]

That is the highest compliment.

[Sage]

A dumpling.

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

Okay, take notes.

[Kennedy]

To be either a dumpling or a duck egg is. I cannot give you.

[Sage]

Oh, a duck egg is also good.

[Kennedy]

Yes. Duck egg. Yes. That is a term of affection.

[Sage]

A Kennedy term of affection. Or is this from Mom? This is Kennedy creator.

[Kennedy]

No, that was actually a producer I worked with when I was at mtv. She would call me Duck Egg, and I'm like, I like that because she said it in such a nice way. So each of my girls, I call them, like, duck eggs.

[Sage]

Dumplings and duck eggs, depending on how nice they.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

To you. Yes. But you were okay, 24 on that stage. Yes. Nervous. Understanding the magnitude of it now, but

[Kennedy]

it's because at that point, like, I'm still playing a lot of defense, because there's still people who. They want Bill Clinton reelected. You know, Bob Dole, he was the old guard. They. They didn't want this to be a flash in the pan. They wanted their version of liberalism to take hold for a generation. So there was a lot of pushback on my politics. And it was then that when I resigned with mtv, they put a clause in my contract that I was not allowed to do any political media without written consent. And do you know how hard it was to get written consent before people had, you know, laptops and cell phones,

[Sage]

email, even, like, yeah, so.

[Kennedy]

And they did that on purpose because I had several offers to analyze whatever political speech is happening, and I would have to give it to media relations. And then, of course, they would wait three days and be like, we're going to say no. I'm like, well, the interview would have been two days ago, so thanks, though. And they would let. They would let liberal VJs go and do, like, Planned Parenthood events.

[Sage]

And this has been going on since the beginning of time, but if.

[Kennedy]

If I wanted to do a Pro Life event, would you let me do that? And they're like, absolutely not.

[Sage]

So they flat out admitted it.

[Kennedy]

Don't see the hypocrisy there. Yeah, they totally admitted it. And they're like, we have to protect our brand. I'm like, you have to protect your liberal brand.

[Sage]

Yes.

[Kennedy]

And I'm like, half the country is not liberal. Like, you understand that, right? And you know, no matter who's in

[Sage]

office, there's half the country that's pissed off. Yeah. And that's just how it always is.

[Kennedy]

And they would say, we don't want our viewers thinking that this is a Republican network.

[Sage]

And I'm like, because there's one.

[Kennedy]

I said, don't worry. I am outnumbered 20 to one. Like, you're good. The numbers are on your side. You're safe.

[Sage]

But they knew you were too good to not offer you another contract.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. Because it's like I was hosting Alternative Nation.

[Sage]

That's what I mean.

[Kennedy]

I was in the demo. You know, it's like you were a sophomore in college. Like I was visiting my friends in college when I was at mtv.

[Sage]

Exactly.

[Kennedy]

Which is like fun and weird.

[Sage]

Yeah. Probably. Because then you're like, why are you going to class? I'm over here making. Making money. Like living, being an adult. But it speaks to. Yeah, you're. Your flat out talent. For them to have to be like, damn, we gotta keep her. Like, she's too good. I mean, obviously that has continued in many disgusting ways where the hypocrisy of it and the double standards. But I guess I was so naive then. Like, I didn't know that that existed. It feels like such a different, innocent world then. And I wasn't part of the media until 95. Yeah. Did you consider at all, at any time being like, forget it. Like, this is too much, too hard to be the only one. And then to be on the receiving side.

[Kennedy]

Not because of my politics. I was just at the end of my time at mtv. I was just getting burnt out.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

And it's. It really is like, it's a meat grinder and it's supposed to be. And you're young and you can handle it. But I knew there was a life outside of that. And, you know, I wanted something a little closer to how I grew up. And I love being in New York City. I love being here with my family. But I didn't have a family. You know, it's like I was single for most of the time. And it's. It's also going out like MTV was the only thing. Like, there was no Snapchat, there was no Tick tock. There was nothing else that competed with mtv. And it's wild to think, like, I wish we could go back in time with that knowledge and know how truly special that was. And my old boss, Andy Schoen said it would be like opening up your laptop and, you know, there's no safari. There's no Google Chrome. It just goes right to mtv. There's nothing else.

[Sage]

True. And I don't think you or so many other, I mean, anyone outside, sorry, all the, all the kids in the world, you'll never unfortunately get to experience that. Right. And to comprehend how life changing it was to have people like you, the MTV VJs, like, you changed our experience as kids and young adults. You really did. So. Okay, I'm gonna put you on the spot, which you might have been asked this before. And you're so humble and kind and I love that. And honestly, if you were to describe the impact that you believe you had because of your role at mtv, the impact, I mean, wide reaching. What kind of impact, in hindsight do you think that your time there had?

[Kennedy]

I didn't, I didn't understand it at all when I was there because I never watched it. And you know, people describe what it was like watching mtv. I never watched it. I watched it as much as I possibly could when I was in high school. Like once we got cable my junior year, like, that's all I did was watch it. Like, we would go to my grandmother's house in Southern Indiana because she had cable and my aunt would get so mad at us because it's a sunny day. She's like, let's go on the boat. And we're like Peter Gabriel, we're going to watch Sledgehammer again. Yeah. But I didn't watch it because I didn't want to see myself.

[Sage]

I know if you're critical of yourself,

[Kennedy]

I don't like listening to myself. I don't like watching my, myself. I, I can't stand it. But it's actually like been more recently where people who were a lot younger than me and that never occurred to me that, you know, kids who are watching when they're 10, 11, 12 years old were internalizing so much because I was always thinking about people my age and older as you do. Like, especially if you have older brothers and sisters, you think about like their generation and impressing them.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

You don't think about the kids who are watching who, who like live for that. And it's so funny because it's that generation of people that I've gotten to know like kind of recently. And it's so funny because, like, you know, it makes sense. But like, I didn't interface with it in that way. Like, to me it was like being at a six year summer camp because we were always on the road, we were always getting new clothes, we were always in each Other's business. And it was like a non stop party. And it was all 25 year olds. Like everyone there, like they hired young freelancers because they were cheap but they were creative and worked their asses off. And it's like we were just like a roving gang.

[Sage]

Awesome.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, it was amazing.

[Sage]

Thank goodness there were no cell phones then.

[Kennedy]

I say that all the time.

[Sage]

Seriously.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

You might not be here today.

[Kennedy]

Right.

[Sage]

None of us would be. Okay. But you avoided the impact question.

[Kennedy]

What's the impact question?

[Sage]

No, about what impact you believe you. You had, like, as someone who had the courage maybe again, it wasn't intentional. I'm going to be courageous here. To be absolutely true to yourself.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

In the MTV world, in the media world as a whole. And there was no one else. There was no one else like you doing that within that medium.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, that's true. There were a lot of booby girls. And I hope that young women looked at me and went, oh, cool. I can kind of dress like a spaz and wear glasses and like have my hair be wild. Like I don't have to straighten my hair for an hour every single day in order to fit some norm. Like, I hope it expanded people's norms. And I hope, like, I do hope people dress for themselves. You know, it's like, don't dress for other people. It's so boring. It's like we should Marie Kondo. Everything where we walk outside and we're like, this brings joy to my heart, therefore I am wearing this.

[Podcast Host]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey. How's it going today?

[Podcast Host]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion wonder. 20 million is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Podcast Host]

Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247365.

[Kennedy]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan. America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[Sage]

How did those days where you got to be on your feet and you're talking about a whole bunch of different things with different people on different platforms, different stages impact the transition then to Fox and Fox Business and all that you did when you went full on into the political world?

[Kennedy]

I still talked about politics, and I had people around me who were political, and I would seek their advice. And so I was always in that. And I was always wondering, how would life be if it was almost all politics and very little music? And I was okay with that. And my first job outside of MTV was an FM talk radio show, which was great because it was like. It was like a clearinghouse. And, you know, I got to find my political voice as a political broadcaster, but still bring in the stuff that I loved, which was culture.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

And pop culture. And I would interview musicians and comics, and sometimes we would talk about politics, and then when we would talk about politics, sometimes it would get very, very serious. And I liked the flexibility of doing that because I think that's how people naturally are. You know, it's like, you know, it's very rare that someone is always funny or someone is always serious. You know, it's like we are kind of how we are at the dinner table, you know, when we're with close family and friends and you're making inappropriate jokes and, you know, maybe someone's offended, but then you go down, you know, some serious roads and you ask those deeper philosophical questions and you get to think about stuff, and then you get to laugh.

[Sage]

And you still. Today on your show, you're talking to musicians like that. That will always be a part of you. It feels like a part of your. Part of your life.

[Kennedy]

Yes. Because when I was doing that and interviewing bands, I was always trying to understand the creative process, which is different for everyone. But understanding that artistry and what goes into a song that, like, changes your life or that can take you to a moment in time instantly. Like, there's something really sacred about that. And when musicians did that really well, I wanted to understand that process, and I still do. And I think it's interesting for people who are still doing that decades later. Yeah.

[Sage]

Like, it's amazing.

[Kennedy]

Does the muse ever leave you? How do you get it back without judging yourself? Because that. That's. That's one of the biggest challenges that artists face is they feel that what they're doing now, it's not worthy. It's not good enough. They don't want to put it out. And, you know, it's like, how much music is withheld from the world because there are artists who fear that fear for sure.

[Sage]

Best bands ever. In your mind.

[Kennedy]

I ever. That's.

[Sage]

That's just your favorites, I guess.

[Kennedy]

I love. My favorite band is Rocket from the Crypt. They're a San Diego punk rock band. There was a scene, a San Diego punk rock scene in the 90s that was like, amazing and it'll never be replicated. And that was. It was so analog and just like urgent and awesome and great songwriting and performative and just wonderful. Of course, I love the Beastie Boys and no Doubt. I love Gwen Stefani's voice. I love her solo stuff. I listened to. I listen to, like, I guess newer music, but I love Chapel Rowan. I love the way she writes songs. And she seems like kind of a pain in the ass, but I still appreciate her process.

[Sage]

That's one thing that I think. Well, I know that I don't fully have an appreciation for. Like, I try to, but never been in that world in those spaces. And to be able to watch the creative process and. Okay, so I guess that Taylor Swift documentary. Right. Which I have not watched yet, but would be super cool to see the behind the scenes of. Yes. Obviously to be on tour globally and oh my gosh, just the physical toll that takes. But to somehow find a way to make sure that creative process never ends. Like, once you're in it, okay, fine, you made millions of dollars, but that's. That's pressure.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

Isn't it? To continue to find ways to problem.

[Kennedy]

Like that was one of the things I learned in therapy when I left MTV was the. The need to hang on to that feeling is where you get in trouble. Like you have to. Mindfulness and living in the moment was the basis of that therapy and, you know, radical self acceptance and accepting where you are and who you are in this moment, it's a very difficult thing to do. But it's healthier long term than chasing something. And. And that's where people get into trouble. And you know, ultimately some of them take their lives.

[Sage]

You, as you're saying this. Yeah. That's what's coming to my mind is the number of people in that world if they don't take their lives, please God know we in every facet. Like, I think the conversation around our mental health, thank goodness, is more and more unlike it was back when we were growing up. Like, you never talked about your Mental health, that wasn't a phrase. It wasn't a thing. But, yeah, in that industry, it does seem prevalent. And why is that in your mind? Is it because of the pressures of being creative? Especially once you're. You're on top and you literally have millions of people looking up to you because your words and your songs are helping them through whatever they might be struggling with.

[Kennedy]

It's like when you are as famous as someone like Chris Cornell or Chester Bennington, and you're a thing to people, and they feel like they own you and they want you and they deserve you, and you can't possibly give yourself to everyone who feels that way about you. And I don't know if it's the muse leaves them or the adulation fades or the fear that I'll never be able to live up to what I did during this one era of my life, but they take themselves from the world. And I was driving around, listening to Lithium on Sirius xm, and it's like every other song is a singer who either killed themselves or OD'd, and it's so difficult to reconcile. And it's like. Like Lane Staley from Alice in Chains, Kurt Cobain, you know, Chris Cornell. And it's like the list just goes on and on. And it's. You start to think, like, what could we have done? Like, could we have pinpointed a mental health crisis and gotten people help, gotten them off drugs sooner? And it's like a lot of the addicts who either OD'd or succumb to their mental illness, like, they went to rehab a bunch, like, it just didn't stick. So, you know, it's like, I sit here and think, is there a different way of doing rehab? Like, it's. It's that, you know, philosophical conundrum. Like, how do you take something apart and look at it honestly and put the pieces back together in a different way that has a different outcome? And those are the questions that we need to task ourselves with as a society, not just for famous people, but for people. Like, think about the homeless veterans who are living on the street, who are discarded, and, you know, they have drug problems and they have nowhere to go. There has to be a different system for this. And, you know, that's what I spend time thinking about is, like, how do we make their lives better? Because they deserve it above anyone else, but they're the last to get it. And it goes back to my trepidation about creating an entirely new generation of those people, predominantly men who will ultimately be Discarded once they've been used by their government.

[Sage]

You mentioned, obviously, the drug abuse, and I've read before that you can't stand the war on drugs or disagree with it. Maybe that's a better way of putting it. I think you hear war on drugs, and it's good, Right? We're trying to eradicate drugs and get people out of that world of addiction. Sure.

[Kennedy]

And that doesn't like eradicating the supply, does absolutely nothing about the addiction. And it is the addiction, it is the gnawing addiction that can be pinpointed and treated differently that we are not treating. We do not treat the addiction. We do not treat the demand. We do not acknowledge the demand in this country. We naively say, well, if we just make all drugs illegal, then they'll go away. No, actually, they don't. A black market pops up, and then you have cartels that are more emboldened and richer than most governments, and they arm themselves accordingly, and they become so powerful that how do you. And. And then they war with each other. So how do you take that? Like just getting rid of their supply? It hasn't done it. It won't do it. There has to be a different way. And one of. One of the big things we have to do in this country is really tackle addiction. And we're getting better at that. We're understanding neuroscience, we're understanding brain chemistry, we're understanding genetics. We're understanding trauma in ways that we never have before. But now we have to take that understanding, and instead of allowing people to sort of steepen their victimhood, get them past that and get them back into thriving. And I think that's the next step we have to get to. But we can't just automatically hate half the people in the country if we're going to get to that necessary place.

[Sage]

Aren't you close with Dr. Drew?

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

Yeah. Wait, you guys were on vacation together recently, weren't we?

[Kennedy]

We were, yes.

[Sage]

Oh, you guys went on some fancy schmancy vacation.

[Kennedy]

It was glorious.

[Sage]

He said it was. Said it was amazing. And my goodness, the way all of you guys work, you deserve it. We talked a little bit about this, too, and he's like, this is not rocket science. There are ways that I could impact. He's out in California, obviously, today, with addiction, but we're doing it from the wrong angle.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

And is it realistic?

[Kennedy]

Of course it's realistic to think that

[Sage]

people are going to listen to make the changes to go deeper than just removing it from the.

[Kennedy]

Yes. I mean, mindfulness is taught in pretty much every psychology program. Dialectical behavioral therapy. So I, my therapist was the woman who created dialectical behavioral therapy, Marsha Linehan. And she was the head of the psychology department at the University of Washington, did incredible research, particularly on borderline personality disorder. And she created a system that doesn't just treat borderlines, it treats addicts. And in my case, it treated my panic disorder and generalized anxiety disorder. And it's based in mindfulness. Like, at the time when I went and saw her in 1998, 1999, no one had heard of her. And I remember telling people about the therapy that I was going through, and they're like, that sounds like hippie nonsense. Well, now that is accepted and taught everywhere. And, and she is an icon in psychology. We can make paradigm shifts. So what happens is, you know, we, we can't afford the time to reach the critical mass, to actually change. So we have to figure out a way to compress that. And I actually think, like, this medium has been the best thing for that because people are having honest discussions for the first time, you know, and, and listening to that and engaging with it and interfacing with, with ideas that would have been too esoteric or academic in the past. And it really has democratized thinking and discussing and problem solving and internalizing that and looking at your own life and going, like, what are the choices that I'm making? Yeah, you know, what are, are my thoughts somehow affecting my health? Is there something that I could do? Can I be more positive? Can I be more forward looking? Can I be more present and affect my overall health? And it's like, yeah, the, the hippies have been saying it forever, but now people are like, oh, maybe there's something to that.

[Sage]

Right?

[Kennedy]

And, you know, maybe we shouldn't just be blindly putting everything in our body and, you know, do it with love and health and nurturing and nurturing your family and ultimately your community, and we will reach that critical mass sooner.

[Sage]

And I think one of the biggest keys to your point is, okay, there's a lot of evils in social media. This is where it can actually be life changing potentially, when people can get on and say and hear, oh my gosh, look at Kennedy and all that she has done. Wait, she suffered from this. And look where she is today. Thriving, probably still working on things like that. That vulnerability to me is everything. And that's where we begin to change, is when we're willing to share our crap, our fears, our failures. And then someone else is like, okay, I don't have to be as afraid it's gonna take some work. Right.

[Kennedy]

I mean, and I also don't have to be perfect.

[Sage]

Right.

[Kennedy]

Like, that's. Yeah. Because that. That algorithm, that perfection algorithm, like that is killing young women. But it's like you can change your algorithm, like, what you accept into your sphere. You can magnify and multiply that.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

And that's where, you know, this positive space that creates its own conflagration. And if those are the people you have to hang out with, great. I've always said the good ones have to stick together.

[Sage]

Do we ever. I say we. Obviously. The good ones indeed. How bad? Real quick, we're going to wrap it up here in a second, but how bad were your panic attacks and anxiety attacks?

[Kennedy]

Awful. I mean, horrible. To the point where I knew something was so horribly wrong. Everything that I did made it worse. And, you know, it's like I tried to do yoga. I would go running, and, you know, when I. When my heart rate. Heart rate would get to a certain threshold, it would send signals through the rest of my body. That's that I was dying. And I went to the emergency room more than once to the point where they're like, oh. And then finally I called my stepdad's best friend, who was a psychologist, and I was so embarrassed. And I was like, I don't know how to say this. And I was like, I think I'm having panic attacks. And because I would get so physically ill and couldn't leave my house and eating made me nauseous, it was awful. And he laughed and he said, I've always said, if you haven't had a panic attack by the time you're 25, you haven't lived. And he kind of made a joke out of it. And he was like, you're going to be okay. This is perfectly natural, considering where you are in your life. And he introduced me to Marsha Linehan, and she truly changed my life. Like, she freed me from a prison of mental illness that I thought I was going to be locked inside of forever. Because when. When you panic, when you have a fear of flying, when you have a fear of leaving the house and everything you do makes it worse, and then you feel a little better and you feel safe, and then you go out and it happens, and it just. It feels. The onslaught is. It's overwhelming. And the fact that she was able to free me from that prison, like, I owe her a debt of gratitude that I will never be able to repay. And the least I could do is tell people about her work and tell people, like, there is hope, like there are ways of getting better. And she told me, like, we can either do therapy, we can either do dbt, or I can write you a prescription. You choose. And she said the prescription will make your panic attacks go away in a couple weeks. The second you stop taking the pills, they'll come right back. Said the therapy will change your brain and that will last. And anytime you start to feel panic, you go right back to the skills. And I do that to this day. Like I have the skills that she taught me, that I internalized that, that I will. Anytime I feel anxious, overwhelmed, you know, like I'm. I'm pushing up against the brick wall that's about to collapse. Then I go right back to the skills. And you know, some of it is as simple as meditation and deep breathing. Doing that for 10 minutes a day.

[Sage]

Do you ever wonder, what if? You know, like, where would you be if not for her? If not for.

[Kennedy]

I've never. I've never. That's funny. That's a really interesting question, because I never thought about that. But I imagine the relationship that I was in, there's no way that I could have sustained that relationship. I don't know. I wouldn't have been able to work, I wouldn't have been able to find different avenues in broadcasting. I probably would have had to have moved back in with my parents, which. It's wonderful to visit them. I love them.

[Sage]

There's a difference.

[Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Sage]

I don't know. Can you ever. I can never picture a world without you on a screen somewhere in front of a microphone. I'm serious. Just sharing as openly as you always have, and you did again today. Do you ever think of after the afterlife?

[Kennedy]

Always. Yeah. Because I had an afterlife. Like once I left MTV and moved to Seattle and was doing my little talk radio show. I'm like, cool, this is it. Like, I'm good.

[Sage]

And we sucked you back in.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. And I, I was like, I'm probably never going to be on TV again. And I was like. Cuz I was in therapy at the time. And she was like, you have to let go of your ego. You have to learn who you are outside of tv, outside of fame, which was a critical experience for me. And I have taken that with me without fear.

[Sage]

Yeah.

[Kennedy]

So now I know.

[Sage]

Like that's the key is the fear and fear of, oh my gosh, what happens? Am I gonna be able to support myself and my family? Will I still be liked? The woman thing and the perfection and trying to be Liked, it's awful. It is a disease in my mind and what we do to each other. But the fact that you did it and then chose to came back, to come back a different person with different tools to be able to handle it better.

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

And you're still doing it. I mean, you work your butts off. Everybody over at Fox, I'm like, those people work non stop. But you love it. You're with good people. You have your own show. You have the show with everybody else and outnumbered and the five, et cetera. You're still doing your comedy.

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

Touring everywhere. Like, that's a lot.

[Kennedy]

Yes, it is. But it's great because when you don't have little kids, like when, when you go from just living for yourself to having children and, and, you know, building your life around them, and then when they grow up, you find that, oh, I have more time. This is cool that I'm going to go, like, write for the Daily Mail. I'm going to go, and you're writing

[Sage]

for the Daily Mail. Exactly.

[Kennedy]

Yeah. And just finding time. And I've gotten a lot better at compartmentalizing and having a list of things and I will have to check them off throughout the day. And once I do, I give myself a high five because I'm like, okay, that's one thing done. Yes. And I like, even today, I'm like, look at all that I have accomplished before I left the house. I edited my article, I bathed my dog, I did a load of whites with bleach. It's like all of these things. And I'm like, see, I made the bed. Like, I'm knocking stuff out one after the other, and I got to sit down with my fiance and go over the news and talk about funny things and plan our next. Next adventure, which is who knows? We just got back from the Daytona 500. Yeah, we. We have the wedding and it's like, you go plan that over there. Nice people.

[Sage]

Oh, I'm like, wait, is. Is it all up to him?

[Kennedy]

You know, he does, he does a lot. Like, he's great, awesome. He. He loves using AI for stuff, so he's really good about putting things in and simplifying. And he, he. Today he comes up to me, he's like, why are people scared of AI? And I was like, I don't know. Like, he uses it so deftly and it enhances his life. He makes his life easier so he gets to do the stuff that he loves.

[Sage]

Listen, I, I am all for that. My. I almost said fiance. We are now married. My husband. Yes. Actually, guess what today is. Our six month wedding anniversary.

[Kennedy]

That's so great. So good.

[Sage]

Yes. No, he's stuck with me forever, whether he wants to be or not. The other, we're renovating a house in Nashville, and it's a bar that used to be a garage. It's super cool. I'll send you a picture. And he comes over to me and he's like, look. And he AI'd it. And I'm like, are you serious? I didn't even think you knew how to look at ChatGPT. And this thing looks phenomenal. So, yes, I think there are many good ways to use AI as long as we keep it in check, right?

[Kennedy]

And we will.

[Sage]

We absolutely will. I hope you know how. And I know that there's hate out there too, and you've received it your whole career, but I've always said this in my little space over here too, that like, gosh, the silent majority is real and alive and well, and you've just been that person for so many of us for so long and just been genuinely you, and it's been awesome to watch.

[Kennedy]

Thank you.

[Sage]

And it's like, it's just beginning because look like another chapter of your life is just beginning.

[Kennedy]

Yeah, but that's a cool thing. Like, never assume that the best is behind you. There are always phenomenal things on the horizon. And don't pretend you know what's going to happen, because only God knows.

[Sage]

Literally let it go. When I gave up control of that, trying to be the mom with three kids and work and planning everything for everybody, making it all perfect, and I was like, I suck at this. I'm done. Everything changed.

[Kennedy]

Yes.

[Sage]

In every aspect of my life. And then you go, what took me 50 years? Like, why? Why? Why?

[Kennedy]

No, but turning 50 is a magical threshold. Like, you walk over and you're like, I no longer care. It's the best. Janice Dean told me that, and I was like, yes. I'm not gonna tell you what she called the 50s. The eff it, 50s. And I'm like, indeed.

[Sage]

It is literally so true. And I'm like, oh, you don't like me? You're lost. So you're missing out. Next. Yes. Claire, thank you. Thank you, Sage and the ring. Good luck. Good luck. He has fabulous taste. I mean, in many ways. Thank you, girlfriend. I appreciate it.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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[Sage]

Has the news been getting you down?

[Kennedy]

I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help.

[Sage]

I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic

[Kennedy]

and it's an antidote to the pessimism

[Sage]

that's riddling America right now.

[Kennedy]

Every Wednesday I'm going to talk to

[Sage]

people who see a path forward.

[Kennedy]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are. You know, I am a believer in America and that's worth fighting for.

[Sage]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Advertiser]

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