Chris Harrison | The Sage Steele Show

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Sage Steele Show – Chris Harrison Episode

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt episode of The Sage Steele Show, Sage Steele sits down with Chris Harrison, the former host of The Bachelor franchise, to delve into his personal and professional journey. Released on June 25, 2025, the conversation navigates through Chris's experiences with public scrutiny, his divorce, the cancellation of his beloved show, and the profound support he received from Sage and her family. The episode is a blend of introspection, resilience, and the enduring power of friendship.

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1. Navigating Public Scrutiny and Cancellation

The episode opens with Sage expressing her frustration over the public’s treatment of Chris, particularly concerning accusations of racism. She recalls feeling "livid" when people's perceptions of Chris as a person were questioned.

Sage Steele [00:04]: "I remember being livid when people questioned who you are, as a human being, as a man."

Chris reflects on his tumultuous divorce during his time hosting The Bachelor, highlighting the challenges of maintaining professionalism amidst personal turmoil.

Chris Harrison [00:22]: "So my marriage ended, and very publicly... my life is kind of melting down."

The conversation reveals the intense pressure Chris faced, balancing his role as a host while dealing with his personal struggles.

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2. Personal Life and Relationships

Sage and Chris delve into their personal lives, sharing anecdotes about their homes, relationships, and weddings. They humorously discuss domestic habits, such as Sage's sock preference and Chris's impeccable foot care.

Sage Steele [01:36]: "When you come into Chris Harrison's home and you're like, why do you have shoes on in my house?"

They reminisce about Chris’s multiple marriages, emphasizing the lessons learned and the importance of finding true love despite past hardships.

Chris Harrison [05:00]: "Tell me what you think. Tell me what you're going to do."

The couple also highlights the significance of their upcoming wedding, celebrating love and the support from their families.

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3. Support Systems and Family Influence

A pivotal part of the discussion revolves around the invaluable support Chris received from Sage's father, Colonel Gary Steele. Sage explains how Chris reached out to her father for guidance during a controversial period in his career.

Chris Harrison [53:01]: "I know your dad is your hero, but I gotta borrow him because he's one of my heroes too."

They share touching moments about the wisdom imparted by Gary Steele, emphasizing resilience and the importance of enduring support.

Colonel Gary Steele [54:34]: "You can either keep going or you can go tits up. What are you going to do?"

This mentorship became a cornerstone for Chris, helping him navigate the complexities of public perception and personal integrity.

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4. Lessons Learned and Moving Forward

The episode underscores themes of forgiveness, grace, and personal growth. Sage discusses her own struggles with witnessing Chris's public battles and her commitment to support and uplift him despite the backlash.

Sage Steele [43:04]: "What was failing to happen was people weren't looking at the track record."

Chris shares his philosophy of building a strong personal foundation, emphasizing that enduring values can weather public storms.

Chris Harrison [44:57]: "If you build a foundation, that pays off."

Their dialogue highlights the importance of maintaining one's integrity and the strength derived from supportive relationships during challenging times.

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5. Reflections on the Television Industry

Sage and Chris reflect on the evolution of the television landscape, comparing the current state to the bygone eras of their careers. They lament the loss of traditional broadcasting values and the rise of sensationalism and cancel culture.

Chris Harrison [35:32]: "He's like, I need to have Some grace... and I'm like, yeah, that."

Sage echoes these sentiments, discussing the shift from "appointment television" to the fragmented, on-demand media consumption of today.

Sage Steele [70:56]: "It's no longer must see TV. It's no longer appointment television."

They mourn the decline of genuine, heartfelt broadcasting and express a desire for more grace and patience in public discourse.

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6. Mutual Support and Future Outlook

Throughout the episode, the deep friendship between Sage and Chris shines brightly. They express gratitude for each other's unwavering support and celebrate the positive outcomes that emerged from their respective struggles.

Chris Harrison [87:44]: "It's been a good journey. Thanks for having me on your show."

Sage acknowledges the transformative impact of Chris's support during her own challenges, emphasizing the reciprocal nature of their friendship.

Sage Steele [84:58]: "If you hadn't advised me, because I trusted everything you said... I was like, hell yeah."

The conversation concludes on an optimistic note, with both hosts looking forward to future endeavors and continued mutual support.

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Notable Quotes

• Sage Steele [00:04]: "I remember being livid when people questioned who you are, as a human being, as a man."
• Chris Harrison [05:00]: "Tell me what you think. Tell me what you're going to do."
• Colonel Gary Steele [54:34]: "You can either keep going or you can go tits up. What are you going to do?"
• Chris Harrison [44:57]: "If you build a foundation, that pays off."
• Sage Steele [70:56]: "It's no longer must see TV. It's no longer appointment television."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Sage Steele Show offers an intimate glimpse into Chris Harrison's resilience in the face of public adversity. Through candid conversations and shared experiences, Sage and Chris highlight the importance of a strong support system, personal integrity, and the enduring power of friendship. Listeners are treated to a compelling narrative of overcoming challenges, fostering meaningful relationships, and navigating the ever-evolving landscape of the television industry.

Transcript

[Sage Steele]

I remember being livid.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

From. I was in Connecticut. I remember being livid when people questioned who you are, were. As a human being, as a man. And when you call someone a racist, I mean, that's one of the worst things that you can be.

[Chris Harrison]

Truly.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

So my marriage ended, and very publicly. And look, I get it. The late night shows had a feast on it. When the host of the Bachelor, the love guru, the love doctor, gets a divorce. I mean, the jokes write themselves, so I get it. I vividly remember being in Thailand when I was in the midst of my divorce, but nobody knew. And I was still texting, you know, about the divorce, back and forth with my ex. And it was really, you know, at that time, it wasn't going well. So I was in this ancient world ruin, and I was texting my ex, and we were going back and forth in the middle of texting, like Harrison Q. And I literally put my phone up, walk in, host the Bachelor, go back texting, and, you know, and then sit down for an interview and talk to this girl about how great love is, how wonderful, and you need to find the love of your life, you know? And meanwhile, my life is kind of melting down. And Lauren and I host a show called through the Drama. And I've said this. I've said the same thing. I know this might get me in trouble again, but.

[Sage Steele]

So, you know, you're already rolling your eyes at me, aren't you? You know, usually when people come into my space, my space, my studio, I feel more comfortable saying, listen, I would really. This is my vibe, and you know it. But when you come into Chris Harrison's home and you're like, why do you have shoes on in my house?

[Chris Harrison]

Right.

[Sage Steele]

No, I do know my sock thing.

[Chris Harrison]

I do. Do you want me to put on your socks?

[Sage Steele]

Look, I didn't pick hot pink ones. I could have done the color of your beautiful roses. They match your rug. Will you. Only for you, will you accept this?

[Chris Harrison]

Why wear fluffy socks?

[Sage Steele]

Oh, at least they got to see your cool Jordan kicks.

[Chris Harrison]

Now I have to take off my Jordans.

[Sage Steele]

When's the last time you got a pedicure, Chris?

[Chris Harrison]

I have good feet.

[Sage Steele]

I didn't look. I'm afraid to.

[Chris Harrison]

I have really good feet.

[Sage Steele]

Lauren, does he have good feet?

[Chris Harrison]

I do. For playing soccer my whole life, I have really good feet.

[Sage Steele]

Let me ask your wife. He's.

[Chris Harrison]

He's very cleanly. You know, years of working with stylists.

[Sage Steele]

And makeup people in tv. He keeps himself together.

[Chris Harrison]

I feel like I'm camouflaged With my.

[Sage Steele]

Rug now you kind of are. That's why I regret. Do you want to take the ones with the pink toes?

[Chris Harrison]

No, thank you. I'm good.

[Sage Steele]

That'd be better.

[Chris Harrison]

The fact that you got me in socks. Just let you know how much Victory I love you and appreciate you.

[Sage Steele]

I love you. It's going to be a love fest, guys. Get ready, because this relationship goes way back. I was going to say, though, there's a lot that I want to say. But behind us is my favorite part of your beautiful house here in Texas. It's the candy bar. Is that what you officially call it?

[Chris Harrison]

This is LZ's idea, because this is.

[Sage Steele]

Lauren Zima, the person whose house this really is. Chris just lives here.

[Chris Harrison]

My boss, my CEO. This was her idea. The. This is kind of our movie room, our den, where we are now. And so we love movies. We. We love snuggling here on the couch, watching movies, watching sports. When she lets me. And so we wanted, you know, what do you like at the movies? Candy.

[Sage Steele]

All of it.

[Chris Harrison]

And that's two of our four Emmys.

[Sage Steele]

Our.

[Chris Harrison]

They're in our house.

[Sage Steele]

Ours.

[Chris Harrison]

She lets me. She lets me wash them and dust them.

[Sage Steele]

Dust them.

[Chris Harrison]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

Shine them up. Exactly.

[Chris Harrison]

Okay. Yes. Lauren has four Emmys.

[Sage Steele]

Four. She had four?

[Chris Harrison]

Yes. No, there's so many. We can't even put them all in one shelf.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, it's important. Impressive. They're super heavy.

[Chris Harrison]

They are super heavy. And, yeah. When people say, wow, this is heavier than I thought. Now I know, because I had never held one before. Clearly, I held an Emmy nomination. And that piece of paper is not very heavy at all.

[Sage Steele]

I have one even, and that says something.

[Chris Harrison]

If I give an Emmy or Emmy nom.

[Sage Steele]

An Emmy, baby.

[Chris Harrison]

Do you.

[Sage Steele]

An Emmy Sports. One of those. Yes. Part of a. Part of a team. It was my last.

[Chris Harrison]

This just proves my point that you and Lauren are a lot more talented than I am.

[Sage Steele]

Facts, for sure. However, this part, and I remember this, in another house that you had in a different. Is it different country? Frankly, yes. Los Angeles. And, yeah, actually true. I was never invited to that house. I might have put my mouth underneath that dispenser earlier. So I don't know if you have cameras in this room.

[Chris Harrison]

I stick to this side. This is the M and M side where we have four different kinds of M and M's.

[Sage Steele]

I love it.

[Chris Harrison]

Peanut and almond. Those are my two favorite.

[Sage Steele]

Not plain.

[Chris Harrison]

No, not really plain. And if I had a third, it'd definitely pretzel.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, those are a waste.

[Chris Harrison]

Interesting.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. God, I thought we had a lot more in common than we do.

[Chris Harrison]

This is our first fight.

[Sage Steele]

Definitely after. When was the spelling bee, Chris?

[Chris Harrison]

I. The best I could recollect because phones didn't exist back then because. So I don't have a picture of us doing the spelling bee. I think it was 2014. 2015.

[Sage Steele]

No, absolutely not. Earlier, I want to say it was like 2011.

[Chris Harrison]

Oh, gosh.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Okay, I'm pretty sure. Wait, I'm getting out of order. The last time I was in this home was October of 2023. Right after y' all got married.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, our wedding. You came. Well, obviously you were at the wedding on Saturday night. Then we had a big kind of brunch here on Sunday that you came to.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. Chris slaved away in the kitchen cooking breakfast.

[Chris Harrison]

It was. That was all. It was such a great wedding. Obviously. It was great to have you. It was you and our lawyer, Brian Friedman. Yeah, really. Probably the most important man in our lives.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

Brian Friedman, all due respect to your fiance and my wife who's sitting, but.

[Sage Steele]

She'S not a man. So you're fine.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. But no. That was such a magical wedding.

[Sage Steele]

It was.

[Chris Harrison]

It was this tight knit group and it was fun to have everybody back to our home on Sunday. Just hang out. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it and they might not be as careful. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off terms. Apply. Celebrate.

[Sage Steele]

It was wedding number two for you. Actually three, I guess.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, it was wedding number three. Yes, because Lauren and I got married twice.

[Sage Steele]

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[Chris Harrison]

But yes, you're part of the two marriage club as well. You're about to be.

[Sage Steele]

About to be. But yes, but you're second with her because you. You had the Napa.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. A month before we got married in Napa. Napa was always really important to us. A special place for us. We went on a lot of dates up there because when we were living in Los Angeles, it's, you know, a 45 minute plane ride up there. And we love Napa. We love wine, as you know by our wine cellar over there. We have a. We don't really have a drinking problem. We have a buying problem.

[Sage Steele]

And so I can drink for you if you just want to buy nice wine.

[Chris Harrison]

And so we really wanted to do and we had trouble. And I don't know if you're like this with your wedding, figuring out at this age who you want.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, boy.

[Chris Harrison]

But also you have this big list of who you want, but then also you want to celebrate differently with different people. Does that make sense?

[Sage Steele]

Oh, big time.

[Chris Harrison]

You know, you have your family you want to celebrate intimately with on a different level, kind of quietly, personally. And then you have your friends you really just want. Pop the tequila, let's go. Yeah, let's. Let's have a blast in trying to blend those things together, which I think we all did when we were young. You know, it's like, oh, I'm trying to be personal, but I'm also doing the chicken dance. And it doesn't quite make sense. And so Lauren and I like, let's just. And I don't know who came up with the idea. I'm guessing Lauren. Let's just break the two apart and let's do. We did 40 people, very intimate in Napa. A dinner at one of our favorite vineyards. And it was more about the dinner, the wine, the intimacy. Our daughter Taylor sang. We had a good friend, Mike Levitt, who actually officiated both weddings, but it was a little deeper and more personal there. And it was just awesome. It was perfect. And then we did the party here in Austin, which was cowboy hats Boots, tequila. A great band. We danced our asses off. We were sweating. It was. It was everything Lauren and I wanted. Just the band was playing bangers from the 80s and 90s. We loved it.

[Sage Steele]

The barbecue, the food. Yeah, but it was a ranch. There were like llamas. Right.

[Chris Harrison]

There was steers there, longhorn steers, donkeys that we wanted. We wanted to bring a lot of friends from L. A To kind of have the full Texas experience. We were on this ranch. Shout out to my man Cameron at Bamm Bam's barbecue in Provo, Utah, who said, as a wedding gift, I just want a barbecue for everybody. And so he came in and I know it's kind of sacrilegious. We brought a guy in from Utah to barbecue for everyone in Texas. But I met him here in Austin years ago in a weird story, in a weird twist of fate. And we've remained really good friends. And so he's like, I just want to do this. And so again is only rednecks can do. He was barbecuing in my driveway. I woke up at like 5 or 6 in the morning, and he's out there with a pork butt and a brisket in my driveway. And I'm like, I can't imagine my wedding being any other thing than this.

[Sage Steele]

It is perfect.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. The house smelled of smoke.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. And plus this nice, beautiful, fancy neighborhood, and you've got this guy barbecuing in the driveway.

[Chris Harrison]

And like, so, you know, we did some things that were bougie. But like Lauren's mom, Donna, who we love and adore, she was here making desserts. Like, you know, her mom made desserts for our wedding. Beautiful. So we. We supplemented some. Some stuff to make it bougie. But then we also. It's us. And we wanted to make it feel.

[Sage Steele]

Like it was warm. Yeah, that's. That was my biggest takeaway. Aside from the obvious and the beauty of Lauren and the happiness and just so many people who came from across the country to celebrate you. Because all those people knew what you'd.

[Chris Harrison]

Been through because we got married in Napa, and that was very traditional. Where Lauren. We separated. We did. Spoiler alert. We spent the night together. The night before, we talked about not. I got a different room. So tell me what you think. Tell me what you're going to do. So I got a different room. And I had prepared for Lauren not to sleep with me. I mean, we've also been living together and sin for five years before, but we were going to separate for that night. And she's like, this seems ridiculous. What are we doing? So we spent the night together, but she got up very early and left, went to the venue to get ready. So we didn't see each other all day. My dad, my brother. Her brother was a part of my wedding party. My son Joshua. So we all spent the day together, which was awesome. And I didn't see her till she walked down the aisle.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. So no first look.

[Chris Harrison]

I hadn't seen her dress. I hadn't. So it was all the tears in my eyes and the gut punch that I knew it was going to be. I cried like a baby. I've become such a softy in my old age. But the cool thing about Austin is since we already did that, we got ready here at the house and we drove in my truck to the wedding with lz, Josh, and Taylor. So the four of us as a family drove to our wedding. We got out, and Lauren and I kind of stood, honestly, in the parking lot by my truck until the wedding was ready. And we walked in, hand in hand down the aisle, and everybody. You were there. Everyone just kind of parted ways. And it was so fun because I remember every second of it. And I see the pictures now of Lauren and I walking in and looking at all of you. And everyone had smiles and taking pictures. And you know, your wedding is over in the blink of an eye, especially when it's happening for the first time. So when you do two of them.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

It was just more memorable maybe because you could just take it all in.

[Sage Steele]

I'm imagining you driving your truck with your bride.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Was she dressed like. Oh, yeah, we were fully dressed in her wedding gown.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, it was kind of a. It was a dress down version of the gown. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

That's so cool. And listen, we talked about this earlier at lunch. I mean, this is not. Divorce is not ideal. Divorce is not the goal anytime you get married.

[Chris Harrison]

I had fun. I had fun at mine. It was great.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. That's when we need your fancy wine to come in. Absolutely. But how cool. And I thought about this with my kids. I have three. Dave has two. That they get to be a part of it this time. And they've been through it. Our kids have all been through it because the divorce, et cetera. But to drive over in your truck with your bride and your two kids, who got to witness all of it, obviously they weren't around the first time you got married. Right. That's special.

[Chris Harrison]

It really. And I thought about that, and that wasn't lost on me either. Again, I think things with age comes a little experience and hopefully wisdom. And I had the wisdom to kind of look around and realize that, you know, I want my kids to have a great example of love. I didn't want them to go through a divorce. That sucks. And I know it sucked for them when they were 9 and 11 years old and going through that and growing up as teenagers. But we made the best of it that they could. And their mom did a great job being a mom as well. And we did try to show them love separately. But I am so excited to show them that a their dad didn't give up. You can find love at any point in time in your life. Who knew I was going to find the love of my life at the age I found it? You don't know. And so I was happy to. And that was one of the things that hit me. So, again, maybe being the producer or director of TV that I am, LZ and I, @ our wedding, faced each other so we could see each other's families. So I was kind of looking at my kids during our wedding in Napa, and she could see her family. And so I was looking, and I could see my son and my daughter, and I could see them looking. And I could see my daughter crying. And my daughter, I dare say, loves Lauren maybe more than she loves me, which is easy to do, most people do once they meet Lauren. But it was not lost on me that my daughter had tears in her eyes watching this love story unfold. And they wanted their dad to be happy.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

And they want their dad to find love. And I want to show an example of love. And I love showing affection, hugging and kissing Lauren and vice versa in front of my kids. And, you know, to this day, Taylor crawls in bed with us and we watch Arrested Development or Friends at night. And I love that we all share in this love affair and this love story. So, yeah, when we were driving to that wedding here in Austin, and I look in the back seat and we're all just laughing and talking, and I'm just like, if I could freeze a moment in time. Lauren and I talk about this all the time, you know, especially grief and her losing her dad. And you have to enjoy the seasons in life that are good, and you really have to embrace that, because we will have bad seasons. People are going to die. Bad shit's going to happen. You and I know bad shit's gonna happen. So you gotta enjoy it when it's good. And that was a good moment. And it's been a good season for Us.

[Sage Steele]

I think the. There's so many takeaways that you experience with divorce. Even if it's the right thing, there's still a loss, there's a sense of failure. I don't know if you felt that. I certainly did.

[Chris Harrison]

Oh, for sure.

[Sage Steele]

But then you realize it isn't actually just about you and your feelings and your heart. As hard as it can be on kids, and I think most kids, it's hard on. You are showing them to never settle and in hopes that you can like, for my. For me and my experience, it was. I still wanted and definitely desperately want them to have a great relationship with their father as much as me. And he's happy, I'm happy. I want them to see though, that what you said, you can go find it or not go searching by the way, like, I believe it will eventually come. But what a lesson to not stay in many ways because it's easier. You're trying to protect them, protect yourself, finances, all those things. It is different for every single person. But I knew in my heart I wanted my kids to see what it was like for their mom to be loved a certain way. And I had, you know, my parents and they will celebrate 54 years married this year before. Right. So this is nothing about our exes. This is about truly what we want our kids to assume, aspire to. And if we don't take the time, make the commitment and have the courage in some ways to show them, how can we expect them to aspire to that?

[Chris Harrison]

What are your girls going to think? Seeing a mom that, you know, stayed for the wrong reasons or cowers in a moment or doesn't rise to the occasion. And it can be tough on them in the moment. But you realize sometimes those lessons, those tough lessons are so important because what it shows in the end is, and they'll get it, you have to play the long game, especially with kids as you know, it's like they will see, oh, my mom was a badass. She fought not only for us, but for herself. She had the dignity, the pride, the courage to go find that. And I, like my mom, went through a divorce. And I love both my parents and I'm so glad they're both alive and well. And I have a great relationship with both. I understand why my parents divorce and, and I understand what my mom had to fight through to get her life back together post divorce. And so that was important. And at the time, yeah, I was bummed they got divorced. It sucks, right? You don't want to be from a broken Home.

[Sage Steele]

How old were you?

[Chris Harrison]

Gosh, I was 25 because I had started. I definitely graduated college. Had gotten married very young age. 23 and a half when I was married. Shocker. That didn't work out.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

For a while I was still wearing my frat T shirts.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. Yeah. My first wedding was so wild. I was telling Lauren, she was like, what was your wedding like? I'm like, it was this amalgamation of a high school keg party, college frat party, and then like my parents friends, because it was like I was not that far out of high school college. And it was like. It was so weird. It was so weird.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. All those people who have all the good Chris Harrison stories.

[Chris Harrison]

Thank God iPhones didn't exist.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Chris Harrison]

You know, if. If there was video, it was on film probably. So that's, you know, dissolve somewhere in a vault. I think there was a Congo line. You know, one of those things.

[Sage Steele]

Probably.

[Chris Harrison]

It was true. Early 90s.

[Sage Steele]

What's the. The thing you have to crawl under?

[Chris Harrison]

Oh, limbo.

[Sage Steele]

Limbo.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, we didn't do a limbo, but I think we did the chicken dance.

[Sage Steele]

Did you do ymca?

[Chris Harrison]

No, we didn't do ymca, but my fraternity, there was a thing. Time for me to fly. The aria speedwagon song. That was like our frat song. And you get together and you pound beers and it was like. I mean, we were doing air guitar at my. You know. Hard to believe that didn't out well.

[Sage Steele]

When you come to my.

[Chris Harrison]

Lauren always says your frontal lobe is definitely not formed by then.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly. You got married at 23 and a half. It's a good at least 25, but, man.

[Chris Harrison]

And so, you know, the juxtaposition to that. That's why I can't wait for your wedding, is it's so different and it's so special because you truly appreciate what it is you have. And. And that's again, like you said, it's nothing against anybody because I wasn't prepared to truly appreciate. You know, it's kind of like going to the super bowl in year one. You can't appreciate that you haven't done anything now. You know, the trials and tribulations of life. I'm like, wow, I appreciate love. Wow. I appreciate a partner and true love. And I can recognize what that is and I can appreciate giving it and getting it. And so I can't imagine what it's going to be like for you.

[Sage Steele]

I gosh, it's coming quickly too. Am I close to ready? Hell no. Not even. I just got A dress, like, a couple weeks ago, it would be you.

[Chris Harrison]

If you were ready, if you called me, if Sage called me in July, I'm like, everything's ready. I can't believe this, but we got everything dialed.

[Sage Steele]

Nope. Why change now?

[Chris Harrison]

I expect the morning of, you're like, can you grab a bag of ice?

[Sage Steele]

No. It'll be like, wait, I forgot a veil.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Can you run by? It'll be something super important.

[Chris Harrison]

But the great part is, too. That crap doesn't matter. That you don't care.

[Sage Steele]

I don't care. And when you mention who you want to celebrate with, number one, that's what this is. This is not as much a wedding. Call it what you want. It is a celebration. Celebration of love, of not giving up on finding it, like you said, no matter what the age. And a celebration for us, of all the people who stood by our side through all of it. In particular, family, where they didn't have to. And they hugged us and listened on the phone to emotional conversation. Like, all the drama. You like that word? And I. That's why I'm gonna be a disaster.

[Chris Harrison]

You know what's funny? I was just about to say.

[Sage Steele]

I know.

[Chris Harrison]

You are gonna be a hot mess that day. You're just.

[Sage Steele]

Should I even put makeup on?

[Chris Harrison]

No. No, I would not put makeup on. I don't know if they're watching, but we should get some sort of Kleenex sponsorship for your wedding.

[Sage Steele]

Help me. I don't have any sponsorships yet. I know. I. That's why I got my eyes welled up already in the show when you talked about how you and Lauren, you know, faced your families. Because between my kids, Dave's kids, our parents, who, by the way, this is a story for another day, ends up. Our parents have known each other for more than 30 years. We had never met. I was in college.

[Chris Harrison]

It's the most beautiful, unlikely love story that just insane serendipity is the only word that comes to mind.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. For me, it's like. It's all, God, you can't make it up.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And so I keep picturing myself there that day. And you're right. Why wear makeup? Because it's. And it's out of gratitude, really. And I'll say this. I told you this earlier, but I was so afraid that because I was single for more than five years before I met Dave, and I was so fearful that my parents and close family that are aging wouldn't be here.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

To witness it. And that was the only reason I was in, like, a Little bit of a rush, but, hey, it's. It's in God's time, and patience is a virtue, I will say, being at your wedding. Number one, you made me buy cowboy boots. I was never gonna do it, and now I'm addicted. Lucasi, thank you. Made me go to Fort Worth because my girl's like, listen, you are not getting ghetto, cheap cowboy boots. And they're so pretty. They're like.

[Chris Harrison]

They smell you. And Sergio Garcia. Sergio, the golfer who lives here. Friend of ours, he bought a cowboy hat, his first cowboy hat.

[Sage Steele]

Now he's like, wait, he's married to a Texas girl?

[Chris Harrison]

Angela. Yeah, well, you know, he's an official Texan now. They, like, did the whole day at the Capitol for him, and so now he's like, this hat is because he wears that black cowboy hat all the time.

[Sage Steele]

It is. It's because of you. But I remember being here the day after, and I was. I wanted. You know, I was the only one that probably came alone. And this is one of the few weddings I would have been comfortable doing that because I. I feel like I've known you through so much right at the end of your marriage, I guess. And then.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, it would have been.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. And then all the. If it's 2010, 2011, all the career stuff, finding Lauren, allowing yourself to go there, I think that's a big thing, because once you. Once you get hurt in any number of ways, everybody goes through it one way or another. It is easier to close yourself off and say, you know what? In a space, especially for you, where trust is an issue.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. Well. And I think. And I don't know if you found this, but when you are successful at something else in one facet of your life kind of goes askew. So my marriage ended, and very publicly. And look, I get it. The late night shows had a feast on it. When the host of the Bachelor, the love guru, the love doctor, gets a divorce, I mean, the jokes write themselves. So I get it. So I wasn't even mad at Jimmy Kimmel and those guys for cracking jokes, but when that was going askew, I was like, well, I have this, right. I'm good at this. I'm good at hosting, and I can, you know, so I just kind of buried myself in that. And I knew I was going to hit the road three times a year for the Bachelor, Bachelorette in Paradise. So I was like, okay. You know, God doesn't give all things to one person. So I have this great career. I have beautiful kids. I got that out of the marriage. That's what it is. And I'll kind of bop in and out of town and, you know, I'll date a little bit, but that's just not going to happen. Yeah, I can close that door because I do have this. And I don't know if you found that. It's like I'll just bury myself in being a stud at espn.

[Sage Steele]

I did. I actually feel like I did my best work. Between that and then when things got, you know, dramatic professionally and canceled and suspended and all the things I like. Yeah, I, I, I think I found that I'm really good at compartmentalizing, which is a skill and also not a good thing at times. Yeah, you did that. Well, you can part. I mean, you have to, especially when you're in front of a camera, and that is your livelihood. And you, as not just the host, but the producer, executive producer, like, you had to make sure everyone on your team was comfortable.

[Chris Harrison]

So the product was good one for the, like. I vividly remember being in Thailand. I think it was somewhere in Asia. I think it was Thailand, when I was in the midst of my divorce, but nobody knew. And I was still texting, you know, about the divorce, back and forth with my ex. And it was really, you know, at that time, it wasn't going well. And so I remember I was like, standing in this because I always had to hide during rose ceremonies so that I could walk into camera, but I couldn't walk from behind the case, so I had to kind of come into frame. So I always had to hide. And so I was in this ancient ruin. I was, I had to stand by myself. And I had an ifb. So they would tell me, they would cue me because I couldn't hear, and I often couldn't see what was going on. I would walk in and be like, this is the final rose tonight, or whatever. And I was texting my ex, and we were going back and forth. I remember I was standing in this ancient ruin about to walk into a rose ceremony, helping some girl, I think it was Ashley Rosenbaum, find love. And in the middle of texting, like Harrison Q and I, Lou, put my phone up, walk in, host the Bachelor, go back texting, and, you know, and then sit down for an interview and talk to this girl about how great love is, how wonderful, and you need to find the love of your life, you know, and meanwhile, my life is kind of melting down, and when do I tell my kids? When am I going to make it public? All this is going on. And it was, It Was so much to try to juggle so much.

[Sage Steele]

And again, I think it's hard enough to be the host and be the face, but you were a leader with that as well. And not just some host. You made the show what it is. What did you learn about yourself during that time?

[Chris Harrison]

You know, it's. I think it's a saying that we, Lauren and I say a lot is that this too shall pass. And I love Tom Hanks version of this when he's like, you know, if you win an Oscar, this too shall pass. You know, the good stuff and the bad stuff will pass. You know, the lowest of lows, it will go by and, you know, this raging torrent will go by and it'll calm down, but so will the good stuff. You know, I had the number one show on TV that, that two show pass also. So it's, you know, don't get too high with the highs, don't get too low with the lows. And I think sports always taught me that. I don't know if it taught you that or if kind of your military background with your dad taught you that of just try to take the good with the bad. And it's all the same, you know, just keep working just the same. And I think having a good foundation, having, you know, faith, believing in yourself, all those things, you know, having that moral compass always gives you the ability to go through those things. But yeah, it's just like it's, it's an ass kicking, you know, it's not fun. You realize millions of people go through it and so you're gonna live, but it doesn't make it better. It sucks at the time.

[Sage Steele]

One thing I noticed about you from the very first day we met in D.C. at the Scripps National Spelling Bee, all the way up to when we did Nick Wallenda's tightrope across a live volcano in Nicaragua three days before the pandemic hit. No matter who walks up to you, you are so kind and genuine and take the time and talk to them when they ask you the same questions you've been asked 500,000 times. And the escape that you were for so many people and gave them hope for finding love, like all those things, where does that come from? Because you couldn't go anywhere without being stopped and recognized. And you remind me, you know who you remind me of with this?

[Chris Harrison]

Who?

[Sage Steele]

Charles Barkley.

[Chris Harrison]

Oh, wow.

[Sage Steele]

You know him, he's so cool. Every person that comes up to him and Chris Harrison, you take the time for them.

[Chris Harrison]

Charles is one of the Nicest people.

[Sage Steele]

You can be nicest, most genuine. But that stood out to me the first time I met you. Not that I. I didn't expect it, but it isn't. It isn't common in our business.

[Chris Harrison]

I think being from Texas, born and bred here, the way I was raised, just being kind, leading with kindness. My grandmother on my mom's side, Hermine Salinger, God rest her soul, Mimi, she had this quote on the wall. It was like, love is spoken here. She always led with love. And we're a very loving family, and we. We say it a lot and probably too much, but. But I come from a very loving family. And I just. I tell the kids, you know, because I know it's annoying. And I'm sure you get the same thing when your kids are with you and they're just. They roll their eyes of like, great dad's being stopped in another picture. Or someone wants to talk about the Bachelor. And I'm just like, if that's the worst thing that ever happens is that someone wants to come up. And I could make someone smile or make their day by giving them a hug, taking a picture, talking about the Bachelor, Bachelorette, whatever. Even to this day, I mean, obviously what I went through was not fun. You know, the cancel culture and all the stuff I went through. If someone comes up and talks to me about the Bachelor, I could easily be bitter about it now, like, oh, I hate that. Don't ever talk to me about that. Screw them. I'm all good. Like, just the other day, Lauren and I were out and this. Actually, last night, this woman came up to me and was like, my mom and I, you know, watch the show. And it was. It's what connected us. It's what we talked. I was her late grandmother. She's like, it's the one thing we talked about every Tuesday morning. And I'm like, you know what? Say nothing of this silly show. There are so many dads, so many moms who are grandparents. Like, this is how I connected with my child or grandchild. And it's the one thing we could talk about. And I was like, great. Like, if nothing else came from that show, that's cool. And Arnold Palmer, I heard a quote from him a long time ago where he took it upon himself to sign every autograph and sign it the same way so everybody could see it says Arnold Palmer. And he's. I will not leave until I sign every autograph and make sure I shake every hand and treat everybody the same. And I kind of took that to heart. And I believe the same thing. And you have to understand that when people come up to you, whether it's the first person or the 500th person that says hi to you that day, that's their first time. It can be your 1000th time, but it's their first, and it's their moment. And they want to have this moment with Sage Steele or me or whatever. And so you got to make that special. I think it's incumbent upon you to make that special to them.

[Sage Steele]

I do, too.

[Chris Harrison]

And treat them like they're the only person in the world.

[Sage Steele]

I do, too.

[Chris Harrison]

And it's just also never lost on me that that's. That was my life. Like, they gave me this. They gave me this life, and they afforded me an amazing life. And I'm so grateful to that. To this day, I'm so grateful they allowed me to go to Nicaragua with you, host Miss America, you know, do all these things and meet Charles Barkley and Arnold Palmer.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

Without them, I would not be doing this.

[Sage Steele]

I think if we. As long as we continue to view it the way we do, which is as an honor. I don't know. Sometimes I'm still surprised when people come up to me. And I mean, people will come up to you again. I've seen it constantly. Like, it's hard to go places with him. You know, dinner in the airport, wherever. But I view it as an honor. And, yes, they gave us these lives, but also, we provide. And I'm gonna. This is so much more. You. You provided an escape for people. Every single person's going through something, and if you can make them laugh or just get their mind off of something for an hour a week, I guess after the final rose, it was two hours. Like, you are providing a lot of content during that time for people, and it's an honor.

[Chris Harrison]

And I always thought of that as we were an escape. And I was a little bummed when the show got political and some of the people running it tried to get political. And they used to have me try to say things like, I'll never forget, I got in a fight with one of the executive producers one day because they wanted me to make a Trump joke. It was like a Hillary thing at the expense of Trump, whatever. And I just said, no, I'm not going to do it. It's not because I liked either one of them. It's just. That's not us. Like, I want to stay in our lane. And because I think when people tuned in on Monday nights, they just wanted to get away from life and escape and just be away from all that noise and just watch us and watch a silly thing about love and the one thing we all try to obtain, but it's elusive and it can be silly and embarrassing. And so I just, I, I never wanted to get political on the show. And they tried to make it that way and, and lean in that direction. I was like, just, just don't. We can do that. Just, there's 24, 23 other hours in the day. Let's, let's do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can do that later.

[Sage Steele]

I think it's bad business. Yeah, it's actually simple. Don't you want Everybody to watch SportsCenter, to watch NFL, NBA Countdown?

[Chris Harrison]

Johnny. You know, it's funny, I was listening to an old Johnny Carson clip. Kids Google Johnny Carson. But they asked him, gosh, probably, this is probably back in the 70s or whatever. You see that clip? It was really interesting where he was just that someone asked him, why don't you get involved? Why aren't you political? And he essentially said the same thing. He's like, that's not what you're coming to me for. For an hour a night, you come to me. I want to make you laugh, I want to make you think, I want to make you cry, whatever. That's, that's my, that's my job. He's like, there's, there's plenty of people who can do that. And I think that holds true more today than ever because there are more avenues for people to get political than ever before. 24 hour news, social media, whatever. There's actually less of us that just want to escape and bring you away from all that. And it's funny that the more we're drinking from a fire hydrant of political stuff, the more we all want to lean into it. And when it's like, I think we need more Johnny Carson's.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, please.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Especially today.

[Chris Harrison]

Although I've heard some crazy stories about Johnny Carson in his past. But again, another day, whether it's Johnny.

[Sage Steele]

Carson or Michael Jordan, they would never have been who they were had cell phones been in existence.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. Tiger woods, one of those. That kind of. They, they walk that line very well.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

I mean, was it Jordan who's had the famous line, he's like, yeah, Republicans buy shoes too.

[Sage Steele]

Buy sneakers too. Exactly. And that's what I've tried. I remember talking to my bosses saying, what are we doing? Why we're the one place people can go. And on a football Sunday for three hours, Cowboys, commanders, whoever it is like, we're on the same team, aren't we? You're high fiving the person sitting next to you that you'll probably never see again. That's the beauty of sport. And that's one reason why I feel like I had the best timing accidental at espn, because I got out certainly during when it was political. But the first.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

12 to 14 years were beautiful.

[Chris Harrison]

You were there during the heyday.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

You were there with a mutual friend. I know he's a much better friend of yours. The Stuart Scott days. Rich Eisen, I think, was still there.

[Sage Steele]

Patrick had just left, but Stuart.

[Chris Harrison]

But you were there. You were just after those guys. You're still there on that wave.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

Of the studs and, you know, people.

[Sage Steele]

That I learned from John Anderson, who Chris Harrison worked with as a sportscaster in Oklahoma City.

[Chris Harrison]

Anderson and I cut our teeth together. Anderson was at the CBS affiliate in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I was at the CBS affiliate in Oklahoma City.

[Sage Steele]

That's what it was. Okay.

[Chris Harrison]

So we covered OU football, Oklahoma State football together, Dallas Cowboy games. So we would share what's called a live truck. I don't even know if they have to use those anymore, but they had to pull a massive truck to do a live shot.

[Sage Steele]

The antenna goes 50ft up in the air.

[Chris Harrison]

So he and I would share the live truck, go in and edit our packages together, and inevitably we were on the road. And I'll never Forget, this is 99, 98, 99. Anderson called me and he's like, hey, there's this new thing going on in Bristol, Connecticut. ESPN had just started. And he's like, I think I'm going to go give it a shot. You should, too. We both had talked about our aspirations and wanting to leave Oklahoma. He was really talented and probably knew he was not long for Oklahoma. I knew the same thing. I was not. I loved it and I love the people. I knew I wasn't going to stay there, but my goal was actually to move back to Dallas. That's what I wanted to do. And Anderson's going, I'm going to Bristol. And I said, I don't think that's for me. I don't want to. I'm not a Northeast guy. I ended up going to LA about the time he went to Bristol. He made it. I made it.

[Sage Steele]

And very different ways.

[Chris Harrison]

Very different ways. And one of the nicest, most talented human beings ever. We. The next time we met up, I think he was hosting Holy Moly.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

And on abc. And I was a guest star on that. So weird. But he's. Yes, you were around the.

[Sage Steele]

Probably the best writer that ESPN has ever had. People don't realize this, but we write all of our own scripts. It's not like any, you know, Good Morning America or any news channel, cnn, Fox News, where it's union and you're not allowed to write things. If it's sports, I don't want anybody writing my stuff.

[Chris Harrison]

You gotta write your own stuff.

[Sage Steele]

It's personality driven. Absolutely. And Anderson delivered it like no other.

[Chris Harrison]

And that's what was great about coming from local TV is we used to write, edit, produce our own shows. So, you know, it was funny. So I was a dream come true. I got to host Sports center with you. One day, Sage and I were getting ready for Miss America. We did Good Morning America. Remember? They screwed us and we did like a 30 second deal. They're like, sorry, guys, we came all.

[Sage Steele]

The way into New York and did all this stuff. And it literally.

[Chris Harrison]

We literally did.

[Sage Steele]

That was the first time I saw Chris really pissed off. I was like, I like this version.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, 15. They did like a 15 to 30 second thing and they were like, sorry, you guys, piss off. And so we left. But we did SportsCenter together. And I'm like. I told the producer, I was like, well, I want to see the clips. Like, what? I said, well, I'm writing my. My VO is my voiceovers for the, for the highlights. Like, what? We just thought you were just going to like, no, no, I want to. It's. So I wrote my own clip. So I went and did the highlights with you.

[Sage Steele]

We did the top 10.

[Chris Harrison]

I did the top 10. And I was like, I was like, I'm into this. And it was. It came. It was like riding a bike. It came back to me so fast. Those old muscle memory things came back. It was so fun.

[Sage Steele]

It was so cool. And I just sat there next to him. I'm like, it was so cool for me to see that side of you complete. I mean, I knew you'd been a sportscaster, but then to be able to see it.

[Chris Harrison]

But by then I'd done it for like 10 or 15 years.

[Sage Steele]

You couldn't tell. And then I was. I said this earlier. I was concerned. I'm like, get him out. I need a job. Okay. Dei. I'm a DEI hire. It's fine. I was gonna stick around no matter what. I need you to realize something. We're gonna get back to Miss America thing in a second. Or do you realize I hope you do and hope you'll admit how Many people you have uplifted along the way. Look just at the Bachelor franchise. I mean, you can't even count from behind the scenes people to, obviously, the contestants. Dozens. Dozens. Dozens of them. Hundreds, maybe.

[Chris Harrison]

I tried to. That was always my goal, you know, if my fault. I'm a big caretaker, and it is to a fault, Lauren. I have worked on that. But it then became hard to see at times. You know, during the ordeal I went through, there were moments where, you know, as you saw, you find people you thought were in your foxhole.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

You thought would take bullets with you, and not only did they turn and run, they actually ran to the other side, started firing bullets at you. And that hurts, and that sucks. But I also realize I forgave a lot of that because it was a crazy time. And people do. People under extraordinary circumstances do crazy things. And so some of those people have come back and said, I'm sorry, regretted how they acted, and I appreciate that, and I fully accept that because, hell, I did crazy things in that moment. You know, so did Lauren. We were. You know, when you're going through something extraordinary for the first time, there's no playbook where, you know, there was. There was no rule book for how to handle all that. So I do forgive some people, not everybody. I tried. It's one of those, you know, remember, you know, don't forget. Forgive, don't forget. But I always wanted to leave a foundation of love and try to help people. And I, you know, people from the Bachelor, I take to heart that people still call Lauren and I for advice. You know, there's people that have gone on to do great things and are hosting their own shows and podcasts, and they have opportunities and they don't know the business like I do. And they're like, you're the. You're the one person I can trust because I know you won't. You. You have no skin in the game. You just want to help. And we know you'll be unbiased and you'll just be Chris. And so I do like the fact that when I think back, there's probably less than a handful of people that I'm not friends with that weren't at our wedding. Yeah, when I look at our wedding, there were people at our wedding from day one of the Bachelor to the last season I hosted, which was Claire and Tayshia, you know, and Tayshia was at our wedding. So from Andrew Firestone, Bob Guiney, from the very first days, Trista was here to the last season, and everybody in between. And I, I do like the fact that there were some difficult times and a lot of people weren't happy coming off the show. But I was able, was able to treat people fairly, honestly, try to lift them up.

[Sage Steele]

I remember being livid.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

From. I was in Connecticut. I remember being livid when people questioned who you are, were as a human being, as a man. And when you call someone a racist, I mean, that's one of the worst things that you can be.

[Chris Harrison]

Truly.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. And what was failing to happen was people weren't looking at the track record. As my dad, Gary Steele always says, well, what's this person's track record? How have they treated you? How have you witnessed them treating others? And when you went on it, and I am, we are not going back and through the whole thing because it's not worth it, frankly. What my point here is everybody's going to go through something and how we choose to handle things makes the biggest difference. Certainly there's things I'd like to go back and rewrite as well, and maybe you would too, but I'm going to be honest. And like, I was so angry at how people chose to treat my friend Chris, who I know long before you and I even met, what a good soul you were and how you treated others and to see people come out and flip and like you said, fire bullets at you. How did you handle it at that moment?

[Chris Harrison]

You know, you bring up a good point that one of the things that struck me the most during that time was the confusion of. I've always preached to my kids, if you live the right way, you treat everybody the right way, you're a good citizen, you're a good man, you show love to everybody. And it's not that I was perfect by any means in doing all those things, but for the most part, I have, I think, a good track record when you preach to your kids. And I've lived by this lesson. If you build a foundation, that pays off.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

Like your dad always says, same thing. If you know, what's the man's track record, what's the woman's track record? Okay, I'm going to go with that. Instead of this one blip on the radar moment in time and when that didn't come to fruition, when it didn't matter, when it didn't matter what you said, when it didn't matter who said anything, it was just this, this wave went not only over you, but past you. And it was just like kind of this out of control moment where who I was the things I had stood for for so long didn't matter that it was. It was that. That was the confusion in all of it. But in the end, what I. When I look back now, I'm grateful. Because if I didn't have that foundation, if I didn't have that faith, if I had placed all my self worth in Hollywood, who my friends were, what I was driving, who my agent was, you know, all the silly stuff, if that's where my self worth came from, I would have been worth less. I would have been broken, and I would have been adrift. Instead, I was already in love with Lauren. It was still a pretty new relationship, and it tested us, but I was in love with this amazing woman who was stronger and more beautiful and grounded than even I am. And so I had my family, my mom, my dad, my brother, my. My real friends, you know, my true friends who most are not in this business. Who would, you know, my best friend, Chip Humphries, who would drive over in the middle of the day and, you know, there's paparazzi staged outside my house trying to get me. I would sneak down my backyard over my neighbor's fence, who was a friend of mine, sneak through his garage, get my buddy Chip's car, lay down in his backseat, and we would go either ride bikes or go to the golf course and walk nine holes.

[Sage Steele]

Wow.

[Chris Harrison]

And so, you know, those people got me through it. That's the foundation. And so when I say the foundation didn't work, it's also what saved me. And so, you know, I do. I do thank God for that foundation and my family and my. My love. All those things that got you through, you know, you stay the course. And I'm glad I didn't have that Hollywood life.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

Because that stuff is fleeting.

[Sage Steele]

I think the thing I struggled with was the people that. Yeah, I thought were closest and true friends and that I put my neck on the line for before. Professionally as well.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

They're the ones that disagree, most of.

[Chris Harrison]

Those people at work.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. And that. That's a tricky thing too. What you. I think. Do you think that because of what we do. Lauren and I talk about this a lot. Arts. Being in the arts is interesting. And I would say. I know it's weird. You think Sports center, it's still an artistic form, right? Yeah, it's tv. So the thing about the arts is you're. You're. It's sage steel. It is sage steel. You're not playing a character. It's your heart and soul. You're Putting yourself on the line. Right. And every day you do a good show and you're like, I feel good. I had a good show, and I made people laugh or whatever. So I guess what I'm saying is it's you that's a part of this. So it's a little different than being a banker or an insurance salesman or whatever. It's sage steel. And when your heart and emotions are in it, when that is tied into what's being canceled or turned on, it's very personal. It's even more personal than maybe normal. Does that make sense?

[Sage Steele]

It does. It does with you. Again, I was livid because I saw those people that I know you helped in ways that many others didn't know. And I literally had to hold myself back. People I hadn't met, but certainly America knew who they were. And I wanted to reach out and write them and say, are you kidding me right now?

[Chris Harrison]

Really?

[Sage Steele]

Just say nothing?

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Instead of making it actually about you, it seems like they were making it about themselves. And then I saw a couple of them at your wedding. I was like, God bless you, Chris, for choosing to forgive them. And I think I'd like to say I did the same thing. They're not invited to my wedding. Maybe not.

[Chris Harrison]

You know, you learn, though, that. Don't you think that's human nature is. Especially in that time, it was. This can be a moment about me, and I can, you know, and look to a certain degree, some of the people on my show, it's not like, you know, I always said this about the show. When people would act a certain way, I'm like, well, you can't tighten the bolts in Frankenstein's neck, turn on the electricity, and then be mad when Frankenstein gets off the table and destroys the town, you know? So we have a certain type of person often that comes on reality TV shows.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Chris Harrison]

Because they make for great tv. And so you can't also be surprised when they do certain things.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

That made for great tv. But for you, you know, it's different because I know when you're in SportsCenter, you feel like you're in the trenches with these people day to day. And it is intimate. It's so intimate when you're sharing that desk and the TV with them for hours a day.

[Sage Steele]

And especially as women in sports. And there's so many more now. It's completely different world. But even a few years back, and since I was one of the veterans, I'm like, I remember how I felt when I came in and women were the few women that were there were not nice. And I was like, I will never allow another young woman who comes in to feel the way I did to go out of the way, your way. And then all of a sudden, it's like, wait, when I'm in need of a hug, for God's sake, you don't have to publicly say a word about me. But something. That's when you're like, damn, it, was I duped? I don't think so. I think they all had good intentions at that time. But then you say, wow, I. Once. I'm. Maybe I've fallen in favor and I'm not able to do as much for you, Chris Harrison. You're no longer part of it, or at least in trouble before you were gone. It's like, gosh, is that all it was? And so it's. It's probably the way you feel about it, too. It's really a blessing when you truly see who is there. I also. I can't tell you it is a.

[Chris Harrison]

Blessing, but it does suck in the moment.

[Sage Steele]

Like, it hurts. I mean, we're human.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, it is. I mean, that's the thing. It's. It's okay to. You know, multiple things can be true at the same time. We always say that, and it's true. Like, it's not like. Like, I am grateful for everything that I went through. So I learned so much, and I'm sure you are, too, but it doesn't mean it didn't suck, for sure. Yeah. And you're like, you know, tough lessons are. You know, I always say, God's grace and God's gifts don't always come in this beautiful, cute little package wrapped up under the tree. That's not how it works. Like, oh, look, a lottery ticket. I've learned so much. That's not how it works.

[Sage Steele]

I had so many people come up to me at that time and since, because they knew her friends asking about you, and this is such bs. I mean, it's constant still. I know you get it. You just said it happened last night. Again, one thing I share with people. I hope it's okay. It's too late. If not. Because I've done it many times. Not publicly, though. When you called me in the throngs of it and asked to talk to my dad. Context. Chris and my dad. Dad had met at Miss America a few years prior and hit it off. And my dad, as a black man who'd seen a few things in his day. He's going to be 79, almost 80 years old here and my dad was in love with Chris Harrison. And when I called and said, hey, Chris wants to talk to you to get your perspective on what you said on that show that was so controversial apparently and changed your life, I share it with them because I wanted them to know about the humility of you saying, okay, I haven't lived the life of a black person. Maybe I was being insensitive. Colonel Steele, can you just take a look at this from your perspective as a black man in your late 70s? Tell me. Because I want to learn and I want to be better. And that right there, you asking to do that to me spoke volumes. I was not surprised. But that's what I tell people who come up to me and ask about Chris Harris. I'm like, no, he cares so much. And then you guys ended up having a great conversation. I think he told you that he watched it like three times. Looking for something.

[Chris Harrison]

First of all, I know your dad is your hero, but I gotta borrow him because he's one of my heroes too. I. To say I love and adore your dad is an understatement. He is such an amazing man. And for people that don't know, Google him. Watch the special segment you did on SportsCenter on him. But the first black football player at army, just a legend. When I tell you guys he's a legend at Army. When you and I went to the army Navy game, because that was on my bucket list was to go to the Army Navy game with your dad two years ago in Philadelphia. And I hung out with your dad because you had to host Sports Center. So I was there a day before you. And so it's just me and your dad hanging out in the army hotel.

[Sage Steele]

I still at ESPN at this time.

[Chris Harrison]

Because you had to do, you had to do a late Sports Center. And so your dad and I were at the hotel, at the army team hotel and we hung out in the bar together and everybody comes up to Colonel Gary Steele, Cadets generals. When we were on the field, I think there were three, four star generals on the field. And they all came up to Colonel Gary Steele. They all came up to him because he is the legend. Every cadet, every person knows who he is. So to say your dad is a legend is an understatement. And so I was so grateful. I love talking to him, but I was grateful in that time to he. I thought we'd talk for a few minutes. And of course with your dad, nothing's a few minutes. And so he's like, chris, I hope you have time. I said, yes, sir, I do. I watched that interview nine times.

[Sage Steele]

Nine.

[Chris Harrison]

I'm like, okay. And he goes, if you don't mind, I have some notes. He took notes. This is who your dad is. And so we talked. We talked. I mean, honestly, I think we talked for the better part of an hour, hour and a half about everything. And him, you know, regaling me of stories of studying under the statue of Robert E. Lee in the army library and just him being a cadet and everything back at West Point. I'm just like, just such an amazing man, and I learned so much from him. But I will share one lesson that I took from your dad and I still to this day. And he's. And at the end of our phone call, he goes, chris, let me tell you this. He said, we have a saying in the Army. And basically the gist of this was, you can either keep going or you can go tits up. What are you going to do? Is this going to beat you? You can roll over and play dead. No one. No one can blame you for what you went through. So you're gonna go tits up? Are you gonna keep going? And I was like. I just stood. I was like. I think I got a little straighter. And I was like, colonel, I will not go tits up. I promise you. And so I just. And I've talked to your dad several times since then.

[Sage Steele]

Come on, dad.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I can't.

[Chris Harrison]

He's getting. Honoring his old age.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, he is.

[Chris Harrison]

But, man, I. I am so grateful for that friendship. Thank you for lending me your dad.

[Sage Steele]

No, no, no, no.

[Chris Harrison]

And by the way, God bless your mom, too, who's amazing.

[Sage Steele]

Who's a saint.

[Chris Harrison]

He's a saint.

[Sage Steele]

Because he. It does take a long time to complete a story for Gary Steele, but what he told me after that was. Sage. Chris was just trying to have a conversation, which is what we needed in this country. And this was. I mean, the context was. This was spring of 2021.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

It's been a little over four years. And so the country was in a very uncomfortable state. And now in many different ways, still is. But I remember him saying he was mad that you had been treated the way that you had.

[Chris Harrison]

He was. He was. He was angrier than I was. Or you were. I was. I found it very. Just all of his takes were fascinating, but he gave me a lot of strength and a lot of, you know, just again, knowing that I knew you had my back. You're contractually obligated. You're. You're stuck with me. But you know, to know that he had my back and, and had so much love and respect for me and all, it just, it meant a lot at that time.

[Sage Steele]

Can I play something for you?

[Chris Harrison]

Oh, God.

[Sage Steele]

I know. Well, it's.

[Chris Harrison]

Is this me singing? No, no.

[Sage Steele]

I've never been graced with that honor before.

[Chris Harrison]

I don't know.

[Sage Steele]

This was taped in, I want to say, August of 2020.

[Chris Harrison]

Okay.

[Sage Steele]

I had tried to start a show during COVID in my basement of my home, and we're all stuck and masked up. So I was like, I can't do this. And everybody's doing the online stuff and so this is pre cancellation. And what I asked you was just about being kinder to each other. And this is your answer.

[Chris Harrison]

Could you imagine if we all just had a little grace, a little patience, a little.

[Sage Steele]

That's the word, grace.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. And it's like, like just listen and not be so quick to shut somebody down just because you don't understand or you don't agree with what. You and I have had some amazing long talks and back and forth, and it's like, it's having the grace to listen and take it in and then process it and giving people time to process, by the way. Give people a moment to, you know, in this day and age of social media, it's like, I need to know what you think and you need to tell me right now. It's like, well, take a moment, breathe, and then have a little perspective. And being a little older gives you that experience and perspective. And you and I have had a lot of great conversations about that.

[Sage Steele]

That's the word.

[Chris Harrison]

And not much has changed. I still, I would say those exact six months later.

[Sage Steele]

I think that's the key. This is what I thought of six months later after talking to me about having grace.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

That's what you were not given.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Was grace.

[Chris Harrison]

And it's kind of what I said in that moment. And you know, and I do believe, I still believe that today. I, you know, I've said this on Lauren and I host a show called through the Drama. And I've said this, I've said the same thing. I know this might get me in trouble again, but I think we should have grace and I think we should have a little time. I think it's true in this day and age and it. For some reason, we. We seem to be more mental health sensitive and responsible than ever before. And yet at the same time, we seem more irresponsible in what we ask of each other as human beings, of not Only do I need an answer from you. I need it now. I need it. I need it in my time. And if it's anything other than what I think and what I see and believe, you're done. You're out of my life. You should lose your job. Yeah, maybe you should lose your life. And that's just like, whoa, how did we get to these extremes of where we are? And I would talk to that younger guy back in 2020 and be like, wow, that's pretty salient advice. Like, have some grace, have a little perspective. Realize we all come from different walks of life, we all have different experiences. Take that in. And then also give people a little moment to digest what's going on before you have to just blurt out exactly how I feel about something. Because often when you, you know immediately how I react to something is not how I feel 24, 48 hours later. When you have a little perspective and you digest it and you calm down and you get a little context of, oh, that's what was said or that's what was going on. You know, Lauren and I, with our show, we're pretty good about, let's let something kind of grow for 48 or 72 hours, then let's talk about it to have a little perspective on it.

[Sage Steele]

And then when you're not given the grace again, I guess fight back. Tits up. Like, what? You have choices?

[Chris Harrison]

Well, the tough thing, I don't know if you found this. I think the toughest thing for proud people, and you're a proud person, obviously you got a lot of that from your parents. And I got it being a proud Texas boy, is when it is time to fight, it's time to fight. And I, you know, I always believe if that's a hill I'm willing to die on, that's a hill I'm going to die on. But the toughest thing about being in the public picture when you're going through something is you have to learn not to fight back sometimes so hard and stay quiet. Sometimes the worst thing you can do is fight back. And when people can say part of what my biggest issue was, I was in this vacuum, right? And if you leave a vacuum open, well, the idiots are going to fill that vacuum. The people on social media, the people that just want to be seen and heard and want to take advantage of a moment, they're going to speak. And it's hard for you not to, because if you do speak about them, well, that gives them another 24 hour news cycle. And I found that I Thought things would be gone. Same thing for you. And it says, well, someone else just jumped on board, so that wound is open again. It's like, well, if I jump in and deny that or fight it or say something that I know I could bury this person with, well, now I've just started a fight that they get to have its 24, 72 hour news cycle. It's not worth it. So I just, it's tough to let things go because that's not in us not to fight back.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, it takes a lot. But then I, yeah. Whether, especially as a, as a mother, like, I will cut you.

[Chris Harrison]

And having to tell friends, you know, one of the toughest conversations and I've spoken publicly about this is telling my brother who didn't understand this world. And you know, he's not in the business. He wrote this beautiful letter, kind of open letter to the world about his little brother. And I just said, take it down. Like, take it down. Like it's not worth it. I don't want people to find where you live. And, you know, I think looking back, I would say, screw it, leave it up.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

But I just, I didn't want anyone else in my life to get hurt. I didn't, you know, I talked to you. I was like, don't, don't. And there's other people in the franchise.

[Sage Steele]

I didn't listen to you.

[Chris Harrison]

I know. Well, have you ever?

[Sage Steele]

Yes, I have quite often. But I remember thinking long and hard about my post on Instagram. And I, of course, am at ABC under ABC umbrella with ESPN and Disney at that time, while you're in a fight with them. And I knew it was risky, but I'm like, screw you, abc. You are crushing someone who has carried you for so many years. And I remember thinking that, and it turned out to be kind of prophetic, right? That if this were me, what would I want? Would I want one person to stand up and fight? And I'm like, hell, yeah. So I never heard anything about it from the execs. I thought I might, but deep down I think people knew, knew that I was right. They just were afraid to say anything. But I, I, I was, it was carefully worded, but it was like, here's the man that I know. Yeah, screw you all.

[Chris Harrison]

And I appreciate now, you know, I don't know if it was, you know, pissing in the wind at the time, as we say in Texas, but it was still appreciated because it does. It's, at some point you're just like, it's good to have Someone stand next to you. Right. I mean, it's. It's, you know, when the. Again, when the bullets start flying, it's like, who will sit in this foxhole with me and fight? And again, you find out who that is. And you were most assuredly one of those friends in my life.

[Sage Steele]

Well, that's not why I'm saying it. I just think that for those at home, when you have friends who are in a unique spot, whether they're public figures or not, you do have a choice to make. Do you. You know, do they deserve you to put your neck on the line and just to stand up for what's right? And hell yeah. Now I say yes. You need me to fight. You need. I'm all in for.

[Chris Harrison]

But I also understood, too. And you.

[Sage Steele]

I understand why they don't.

[Chris Harrison]

I don't know if you saw this at Spirit Sports center, where you're like, you know, some. For some people, I would love for them to say something. But then I also thought later, can I expect them with kids, a mortgage, private school, all these things, can I expect them to put their life on the line?

[Sage Steele]

I agree.

[Chris Harrison]

You know, that's asking a lot.

[Sage Steele]

I. I wasn't asking for that. I don't know if you were, but.

[Chris Harrison]

I don't need you to do a touchdown dance.

[Sage Steele]

Correct. Yes. Let me tell you what I thought about him.

[Chris Harrison]

Or.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. I'm so disappointed in Chris. Like, what. That. That's where I was ma. About. Privately.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

You know, and that's what I reach out and get a text from. From somebody, even if they were silent. Otherwise, I think that goes such a long way when anyone is going through something. Have you had people.

[Chris Harrison]

Because I've had this. Have you had people reach back out to you, say, look, in hindsight, I wish I had done more. I wish I had at least called you or stood beside you. Have you. Did you have that?

[Sage Steele]

Very few.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Very few. And that's okay. I didn't expect it. That's for sure. They showed their colors in other ways, and if I saw a couple of them, I would still go up and hug them like, it's fine. Honestly, I believe people are usually doing the best that they can. I think it's. It's the others who yet chose to go the other direction and. And the piling on. And that's where I really. Yeah, I guess forgive because I don't want to give them my energy.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Either. Right. Forgive, but not forget.

[Chris Harrison]

Can I ask you a weird question?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

How different do you think it would have been if Stuart Scott had still been there.

[Sage Steele]

I've thought about that so many times. We spoke about everything that had nothing to do with sports. We rarely talked about sports. We talked about life stuff. We had very different political.

[Chris Harrison]

He was such a big figure. He was the guy.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

And he. He just seemed like, you know, he was kind of all powerful at the time. He was kind of the last big star when. When ESPN still allow allowed stars to be made. Kind of like you, John Anderson, Stewart were kind of the last of that, when they were like, okay, no more stars because y' all are getting too powerful. You're asking for too much money.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

Ironically, that's coming back in a. In a weird way. It is with McAfee and Stephen A. And some of these people, and it's getting kind of out of control politically. But back then, they were like, no more stars. We're getting rid of Dan Patrick, we're getting rid of Berman, we're getting rid of Oberman. All these people. So I've just thought, like, once Stuart.

[Sage Steele]

Died, that was their ability in their eyes, I think, to say, okay, now we're done. I mean, not in a mean way. They mourned properly. I think, as a network, I just.

[Chris Harrison]

Would like to have thought he would.

[Sage Steele]

Have had my back.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Even though we thought very differently about things. And you know what? For many other reasons and other situations I've been in since then, his sister has called me, his oldest sister. And we could not be more different with our opinions. And she has said to me. I can't even say it. She's like, stuart would be so proud. And so I think that when you look at those people in your life, right. The ones that are real, you're like, okay, this is worth it, whether they're here or not. And I do know that. I think he would have backed me. I think he would have been like you. Sobs Shut up.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like, she can think that. Just like I can think this. And we, as a sports world, miss him now more than ever because he had a lot of class.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Most people out there today don't have much class. They got big mouths, a lot of money, and very talented. But the class in my mind is lacking.

[Chris Harrison]

It's definitely changed.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. Gosh, that's me being judgy. But.

[Chris Harrison]

Well, but. No, but TV in general has changed. I mean, look what we're doing. You know, we're sitting here in our house, and Lauren and I host a show in our house.

[Sage Steele]

In your house.

[Chris Harrison]

And it's. I begrudgingly have embraced this world. And I say begrudgingly because I was also on the other train of, you know. And you. You were on the View. So you've done big, glossy talk shows. I was. I hosted.

[Sage Steele]

Their filters are the best ever. They make you look like you're the.

[Chris Harrison]

Barbara Walters Vaseline filter. I want that. And I'm grateful. I got to, you know, co host a show with Barbara Walters, a legend. So did you and I. I did Kelly and Regis and hosted some of those big shows with a studio audience in. In that world. But that world with a laugh track and all that just. That doesn't exist anymore. No, it's gone. And. And I mourn that. That being gone, because I really loved it. It was fun. It was so fun. And I think sports. I mean, look at the Pat McAfee Show. I don't know if you ever watch it or if. You know Pat, you probably do. I've never met the guy, but, you know, a guy in a tank top who is a kicker is in a. You know, is in a closet slash gym hosting a show with all his bros. And it's enough bombs. Yeah. Drop enough bombs. And it's like. And now he's on game day, and, you know, whether that.

[Sage Steele]

20 million bucks a year, and it's like, it's amazing.

[Chris Harrison]

It's not necessarily my cup of tea.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

But I also. I love Colin Cowherd. He's another one who I think is superb. Brilliant, Brilliantly done. He's turned a hot take and a podcast into a. I will sit here and watch a guy doing what we're doing, and he's brilliant. So the world has changed, and it's like, look, evolve, adapt or die. That's the Moneyball theory. Right? Adapt or die. And so I think you. We've had to adapt. And so I. I miss the days of Dan Patrick and Stuart Scott doing SportsCenter. I miss you doing SportsCenter, but I also don't watch SportsCenter anymore. I know I don't. I mean, I'll turn around and watch, but I'm like, I don't know these people. I don't really care what they're saying, and it's just not the same.

[Sage Steele]

So I guess I agree that it's not the same. Yes, it is the evolution of it, and they've created it quite often, and they've. They've been too divisive, which is what I used to beg them not to do. And it is what it is. I think one of the bigger keys, aside from my personal feelings is that the world has changed when we have these. It is no longer must see tv. It's no longer appointment television. We know the score of the game before they can get the lower third on the bottom of the screen. Like, those days are gone. So why are you gonna watch? And I guess that's why it's now so much more heavy on the hot takes and first take and that show and everybody coming. Because the news is that Adam Schefter, who I love, will tweet news immediately, and that's his priority before going on sports and NFL Live. Like that's where they're going first.

[Chris Harrison]

Because it's out.

[Sage Steele]

Because it's out.

[Chris Harrison]

And people have to say, adam Schefter, you know, exactly. Or whatever.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly.

[Chris Harrison]

And, you know, it has. It's just changed so much. And. But now everybody's doing that, right? Everybody. Every station, every network kind of has their band of athletes that have a hot take. And. And this will evolve into something else, Right? This will find its way. I think the pendulum is swung and it will swing somewhere else eventually. Yeah. And that's just. That's life, and that's the business we're in. Lauren and I talk about this because Lauren was at Entertainment Tonight, which is why the Emmys were up here. And we talk about red carpets because she was on the red carpet. She's like, can you imagine doing a junket now?

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chris Harrison]

Like, sitting there and, okay, you get three minutes with Tom Cruise to talk about Mission Impossible. Go. But that was a big thing for a long time because it was the only time you saw Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, whoever, you know, that was our conduit to their life. Now, like you said, I can go on YouTube and see every stunt Tom Cruise has done for Mission Impossible because they have behind the scenes footage.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

And I have cooler stuff than you can even show me. Look at Bryson DeChambeau and how golf has changed. More people watch his YouTube than we'll watch the U.S. open.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. It's incredible.

[Chris Harrison]

And so we all have to be these personalities and all this. So it's interesting to kind of find our footing in this modern world of where the business is and not be.

[Sage Steele]

This old decrepit, like, get off my lawn. Let me tell you how it used to be. Even though I find myself, myself doing that. Do you know when we had to one man band and I did the stand up, and then I'd go back and put the beta tape in the machine and edit it and then run.

[Chris Harrison]

On three frames, so you don't go to black. Yeah. And if you had a flash frame in there, you're fired. The bane of your existence to have a flash.

[Sage Steele]

And now they're intentional.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I'm like, what exactly?

[Chris Harrison]

I'll never forget my. My mentor and boss, Bill Teigen's. God rest his soul. I used to edit his shows. And when I was his intern. And then even when I first started on the. The low man on the totem pole, if I messed up and edit, it was the worst thing I could ever do to him. I was just. He would come in and I'm like, I know. I'm sorry, Bill. There was a flash rushing to get his rush because. Yeah, there'd be in weather. And it's like, okay, you have three minutes to edit four, four tapes. Because in sports, all the games are ending, you know, right at the same time. And you are just crash editing. And it is that broadcast news, you.

[Sage Steele]

Know, Then you're running the tape.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, it is the broadcast news.

[Sage Steele]

The machine.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Like, it's. See, you. You don't understand that, David.

[Chris Harrison]

Like, all you people are sprinting down the hall from the sports office with nine tapes in your hand. You had them numbered, and you had to have everything queued up and, like, throw them in as the. The intro to sports started. And now sports with Bill Teigen. And you just. You're literally like, I can't believe it. I just did that. And now I gotta do it again.

[Sage Steele]

And those are the best days. Like, I am so grateful for those days because I didn't do drugs.

[Chris Harrison]

But that was my. I agree live TV is my drug.

[Sage Steele]

But no one could ever come to you or me or most people, I guess our age and say we didn't earn it. Nothing was handed. People think you just got the Bachelor. They don't know about all those things that led up to it.

[Chris Harrison]

Well, you'll never do anything that was harder than those days.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

Of just live news. I mean, you know, when John Anderson and I were in the field and we both had to edit our shows live in a live truck. And it was just rudimentary at best. And you're, you know, you're making it work and then you're live and the tape crashes. I actually got my start in this business because the live truck crashed. We were so. Jimmy Johnson had been hired. So they fired. Was it Barry. Sorry. Barry Switzer was being hired. Jimmy Johnson got fired. Barry Switzer was being hired. So it was a big deal in Oklahoma. We drove down that Night, middle of the night to Valley Ranch. And Ed Murray was our number two guy and I was below him. I was just a part time guy and I was. But I always just showed up in a suit and tie. I was always ready. For what? I don't know. I was ready for nothing, but I was just ready. And we were two minutes out and Ed Murray had his whole show ready. Ed, the tapes have crashed. The live truck is down. We have you on camera, but that's all we have. And you got seven minutes to fill, which is, you know, you might as well be on for an hour.

[Sage Steele]

That's a lot.

[Chris Harrison]

And so he's like, Harrison, get out here. And I'm like, what? We're in a commercial break in two minutes. And he's like, look, you have forgotten more about the Dallas Cowboys than any of us will ever know. Just, I'm going to interview you. You've been at every press conference, you know everything, you know the history. I'm going to ask you questions, speak and go. And I'm like, okay. And it was so fast and I was so out of my mind that I just grabbed the microphone and that was my first live shot was when Barry Switzer got hired at Valley Ranch. And I just did it and I just spoke from the heart and talked about the Dallas Cowboys, talked about Jimmy, talked about everything. And I went back two days later because we stayed down there. And I went back and my boss was like, hey, everybody saw what just happened and they had been, hi. Trying to hire people. And there was a stack of tapes, you know how it was back in the resume, stack of resume tapes on my boss's desk. And he's like, all these people want this job. And I, it was depressing. I'd been sitting there watching my boss look for a job that I wasn't qualified for. And he's like, but we're gonna hire you because of that moment, because I believe in you. These people deserve this job and I'm gonna hire you. And it was just being at the right place at the right time, but being dressed, being prepared, being over prepared for that moment that I didn't knew was going to come, gave me the break in my life to get in this business. And I will always be grateful to Ed Murray, to Bill Teigens. And I got a part time job being the number three sports guy in Oklahoma City. And then market, it was huge. It's top 50 market. And I was just graduating college. Going from, you know, college soccer player to Oklahoma City was a huge I thought I was going to go to Beaumont, Texas, Wichita Falls, you know how it goes. Small market and work my way up.

[Sage Steele]

What year was this?

[Chris Harrison]

93 and 93.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, that's it. So that's what people don't know is the grind that it took to get to. And then you were at like the horse racing network.

[Chris Harrison]

Well, I did. So I was the number, you know, I was part time sports guy. I was doing these 6am sportscast on Saturday mornings. And so I would work all night doing high school football shows on Friday night helping. I wasn't, I wasn't hosting them, I was helping call. We used to have to call and get scores. We'd call the press box or the 7 11. We'd call the non emergency police line. What's the goaty bow? High school football score? And so we would get it, you know, edit and then I would pick up, put everything away. I'd wrap up around midnight. Then I would stay, write, produce and edit six sportscasts for the next morning. I would sleep in the office. I would just go to sleep for about an hour, get up and do the shows on Saturday morning. And then I was coaching a couple soccer team, soccer teams, coaching high school soccer, coaching club soccer and just making do and having the time of my life. I thought life would never get better. It was great.

[Sage Steele]

And how much were you making?

[Chris Harrison]

My first gig then I think I was making $500 a weekend, which is why I had to coach soccer.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

And then my first, when I got promoted to the sports reporter role, I made $22,500. That was my first contract. I remember I was walking into this news director's office. My boss, Bill Teigens, who was the stud, one of the greatest sportscasters to ever live to ever do it. He we were walking into the bit to the meeting to get the job and I stopped, I said, you know Bill, what do I ask for? He's like, what do you ask for?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Chris Harrison]

He goes, you just listen. As soon as she says the number, you say thank you.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

Get out of the office as fast as possible before they change their mind. He goes, if it's really embarrassing, low, embarrassingly low, I'll say something. You don't say a word, say thank you. So but it's so often, I think I tell kids today when, you know, Lauren and I just spoke at the J school at Mizzou, one of the greatest journalism schools, you know, and she'll appreciate me saying, the best journalism school, the best, far better than Syracuse, far Better than Oklahoma City University. But. So we spoke there, and people, you know, they talk about work, life, balance. They talk about money. They talk. I said, don't worry about the money. Just get a job, get on tape, get, you know, just get in the business, get your foot in the door. And if you work hard, you'll find a way. Trust me. The money will come. The money. The title that will come.

[Sage Steele]

I remember never once even asking. I just accepted the job. And my dad says, well, how much? I'm like, I don't know.

[Chris Harrison]

I don't know.

[Sage Steele]

It's a really good question. The first salary was 18,200. Bumped up to 20, moved to Indianapolis, top 25 market for $22,500 a year. And I thought I had made it, because it didn't matter. It was that we were getting to do this dream job.

[Chris Harrison]

I thought that was the most. If that was the most money I ever saw, God, I would have been happy.

[Sage Steele]

I know.

[Chris Harrison]

It was spectacular.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly. And now, look, we're gonna wrap this up. You have other things to do in your life besides sit and talk to me, but I need people to know this part, too. The spelling bee is when we met. 2010, 2011. I got a call when I was doing NBA Countdown, living in Scottsdale, Arizona, flying into LA weekly to go do the show, like, Thursday to Sunday. And then my agent at the time called and said, hey, ABC called and they want to know if you'd be interested in co hosting Miss America with Chris Harrison. He brought your name up. I remember where I was in a parking lot in Scottsdale. I'd just come out of my bank, and I'm like, chris Harrison just asked for me to be his co host on Miss America. And first of all, I was like, that's crazy. I didn't think he remembered me, number one. And number two, that's not a sport. I am not gonna do a beauty pageant. Are you kidding me? This is weird, and this is awkward, and I'll have no respect. And then I thought, heck, yeah, I wanna do this. Because if Chris asked me, I trust him. And it would be an honor to host that with him. So you brought me into Miss America, which was a beautiful, beautiful experience, when I could never have imagined how great the women were to each other. What a concept. Girls like, we can do this. And that lasted two years before they blew up that whole thing. Crazy. It's never been the same since, frankly. Not just because we weren't hosting, but because of other reasons. And then when I got canceled And I remember being on the couch, canceled, suspended from ESPN at the time with a really bad case of COVID which was interesting because I got Covid really bad a couple weeks after getting the shot that they forced me to take in order to keep my job that I spoke about. That got me in trouble.

[Chris Harrison]

True definition of irony.

[Sage Steele]

It's just perfection. And you sent me a text with a link to an article of someone whose name is not worth mentioning who decided to make herself part of my story. And you experienced something similar with this person, much bigger. And for some reason, when you sent me that, it broke me, because I thought it's one thing for people to take a word or two that I said or whatever, what I said about Disney and the vaccine mandate. Okay, fine. Another thing for someone who has nothing to do with it to come in and then go viral on it to try to break someone further. And at that moment, at that moment, it worked. And when you sent me that, I was grateful because you had my back. And then you said, you need to talk to my lawyer. And within five minutes, you had the one and only Brian Friedman calling me from Los Angeles. And Brian Friedman, Brian with a Y. Look him up if you don't know about him. Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Chris Harrison, Justin Baldoni, right now. Don't worry. That fight is not over.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, not even close. Not even close.

[Sage Steele]

Do not underestimate Brian Friedman.

[Chris Harrison]

Get your popcorn out. Deposition. Wouldn't you like to be a fly in the room? He's going to depose Blake Lively.

[Sage Steele]

I cannot wait.

[Chris Harrison]

I mean, popcorn worthy. That should be the sporting event of all sporting events. Yes, it will be a beautiful Blake be scared.

[Sage Steele]

And she is. I think Ryan is, too, and he should be. But if you had not advised me, because I trusted everything you said, even going live over a volcano in Nicaragua, I was like, if Chris says come, I'll come. And when you said, you need to give him a call, I think I realized the gravity of it. Besides being devastated by these articles and what people were saying and threatening, you know, physical threats, et cetera. And Brian talked to me for an hour and a half and said, you have a decision to make because you have a case. How tough are you? How deep are you willing to go on this? And how much are you willing to stand up and fight for this? So you have changed my life in more ways than you'll ever know. And I. I hope for the most.

[Chris Harrison]

Part, the better, all of it.

[Sage Steele]

All of it is for the better. And I think back on that moment and if you hadn't called and said, girlfriend, listen to me. I know you're hurting because you.

[Chris Harrison]

Well, one of the.

[Sage Steele]

You were only a few months removed from yours.

[Chris Harrison]

You know, again, one of the. There's many blessings that oddly came out of my situation, and when you were going through yours, luckily, I think one of the blessings is I was already in the midst of mine. And one thing I quickly learned is you and I are very independent people. And I do believe I got this. Like, I'm a very positive, optimistic person where I'm like, I'm fine. I got this. I've never been litigious in my life. I've never had a lawyer. I've had one look at a contract before.

[Sage Steele]

I didn't have one for my divorce.

[Chris Harrison]

Right. I've never. I've never been sued. I've never sued anybody. I've never had any of these things in my life. I just. I thought that I would go through my life without ever having these things. And so, luckily, what I had learned before you got to this point was, this is bigger than me. This is much bigger than me. And you can't handle this on your own. And you are facing not people with bad intentions. You're facing these entities, these huge, powerful entities that are so. You are a pimple on an elephant's ass compared to these, you know, Warner Brothers, abc, Disney. That's who you're taking on. You're not taking on a person. And so when. When you. When. Luckily, I realized that the hard way, and I went to Brian Friedman and he took that burden off of my back. It was such a weight lifted.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

And like you said, he is also a therapist, and because it's scary, you know, I'll admit I was. It's when you realize it's bigger than you, that's a scary thing. And I'm like, holy crap, I can't take on Warner Brothers. I can't take on Disney. And they have limitless amounts of everything.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly.

[Chris Harrison]

Press, money, everything. They will bury you. And I don't think people understand that aspect of things. When I see people being maligned now in the press, I realize it's like. It's a powerful thing when you keep seeing story after story after story, and they will keep going until they got you, until the narrative publicly changes. That's a scary thing. Because I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I know how that works. They can keep shifting and planting things and releasing things. And so luckily, I had faced all that and found Brian, who was kind of my savior. The. The kind of. The calm and the tempest of the storm. You. I was able to kind of gift that to you. Like, I was able to say, sage, this is bigger than you. I know that you think you can handle it. You can't. This is bigger than you. I need. You know, just take this phone call. You will feel better. It's. This is better than two aspirin.

[Sage Steele]

You think?

[Chris Harrison]

And he is a godsend. He really is. And I. I tell people all the time, I go, brian is equal parts bulldog and. And just kind, loving soul.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Chris Harrison]

Which is why he was at our wedding. He was. We had our lawyer at our wedding.

[Sage Steele]

And he will be at yours. Exactly. It'll be another reunion right there.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah. Of all the gifts I could give you, Brian Friedman is the best gift.

[Sage Steele]

That was a great one. No other gifts necessary. And it was only. That's what I want to emphasize. You were still in pain at that time. It was four months after your separation.

[Chris Harrison]

We were still going through it.

[Sage Steele]

From abc. Yeah. I mean, in every way. And, yes, you had Lauren, but you had, you know, a kid in high school finishing up high school, one in college and trying to survive. And I look back at that phone call, and then I knew. Oh, my gosh, I knew what I had to do. I knew I had to fight. And it made me feel better that someone else knew what it was like to go up against one of the biggest companies in the history of companies of the world, you know, with abc, owned by Disney. And so I think the full circle. It's just so full circle. You know, I hated seeing you go through that, and I know you hated seeing me go through it as well. But what can come from it, I think, are some really beautiful things.

[Chris Harrison]

Well, two of them are sitting in this room.

[Sage Steele]

Exactly. Do you want to specify the two? Your wife, my fiance. I mean, they could think all kinds of things. Yes, I know.

[Chris Harrison]

For me, no offense to David there.

[Sage Steele]

We love you, producer David.

[Chris Harrison]

David, you are somebody. And we love you.

[Sage Steele]

You are somebody.

[Chris Harrison]

You are somebody. And if you ever need a lawyer, I'll send you Brian Friedman.

[Sage Steele]

And. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I hope not. I hope not. But, hey, hanging out with us might impact that. I, every day, Chris, think to myself, what if. What if I hadn't listened to you? What if I hadn't said, you know what, Brian? You're right. I am done with this shit. I'm done with feeling afraid. I'm done with trying to please everybody else. I'm done being afraid of being disliked. I'm Done with all of it, no more fear, and went ahead with that. Like, we would not be sitting here. I would not have met my fiance. I would not have been able to spend so much time with my parents and friends and do what I want to do and push through so many fears. Do you think about that? Like, the what if. What if that BS thing had never happened with you and you had continued with the Bachelor? Like, what if?

[Chris Harrison]

I will end this in the best words I possibly can from your dad. We didn't go tits up.

[Sage Steele]

See, I don't like saying that.

[Chris Harrison]

No, I think about. I. I take blessings all the time and lessons from it. I think if you don't, and it says a lot about, I think both of us of who we are, because I think a lesser optimistic, positive person would have just rolled over and, oh, woe is me. But I think if you don't take lessons from all this stuff, if you don't look at the blessings in your life, how it allowed me to stop, find true love, find out the kind of, you know, sadly, the kind of person Lauren is who was going to stand by me. And it wasn't easy. It wasn't all roses. Like, oh, we got this. We battled through it together. And we were early days also to see my kids, really, because I was on the road so much, really spend time with them in high school, get my son to college, move him into TCU to watch my daughter go through tcu, to go to every one of his lacrosse games, et cetera. I mean, on down the road, and then now to kind of reset and build a business and a life with Lauren, a production company we have here in Austin, producing our own podcast slash talk show with Merit TV. And Dr. Phil wouldn't have come in my life without this. And it's been awesome. And the other number of business things that Lauren and I have going and to do it here, we probably wouldn't have left la. We still would have been kind of mired in that dark world out there that, as Lauren calls it, kind of that glittery hamster wheel that you don't realize you're on until you get off of it. And it's like, man, you take a deep breath and it's just, just. I am so happy. I had a wonderful career. I love my time on the Bachelor. I love my time as a sportscaster. But I don't know, a happier time in my life where I have been more content, more every day when I wake up, I'm like, God dang, I love my Life. I truly love my life. I can't think of anything else. And I get that we're just in a good season right now, and that, too, shall pass. I know there will be bumps and bruises, as there always are, but I'm truly enjoying this part right now.

[Sage Steele]

I got to sit on your set earlier today to do your show with your wife. And, you know, your bedroom's right around the corner, and you can come out at the last second.

[Chris Harrison]

It's a short commute.

[Sage Steele]

It's a great commute, and it makes. And of course, I'd watched it from a distance and listened to your podcast from a distance back when you started that. But, like, it, it made me just smile, because if anyone deserves this, it's you. And the best part, again, from a distance, the last few years, is to be able to watch you with your kids. I talked to Tay earlier today, and she said that her relationship with her dad has changed and evolved, and you are. She's so much closer to you now than ever before. And if it weren't for the great cancellation, that probably wouldn't have happened, or at least not in that way like that got. When she said that to me, I'm like, what? All of the crap is worth it? When our kids realize they got to see a different side of you. They got to see how dad chose to handle some crap, some very difficult things publicly and privately. And your kids won because of this.

[Chris Harrison]

Yeah, it is. You know, you again, I wouldn't wish it on anybody, what we went through, but having your kids watch you get punched in the gut, get knocked down, and then get back up and recover, and. Because you can preach things to your kids all the time, like, well, sure, dad. You know, you're sitting in this house and living a good life. It's like, yeah, but no, they saw us go through that. And so we have practiced what we preach, and you get back up. It's what you do. You wipe off the dirt and you keep going. I got one shot at this life, and it's short and it's sweet. So I'm going to try and live it all. And, you know, rolling over and, you know, licking my wounds and playing victim was not. It's not part of the deal here. I just. I'm not going to waste that time. And so I really relish that time with Taylor, with Josh, of the blessings of all of this. My relationship with Taylor, it is so valuable to me, and I love her so much. She is such a soul.

[Sage Steele]

She talked about how intentional you have Been with making quality time, making sure that you have those deep conversations with her and with Josh. And I just want people to know that that is a choice, because when you're hurt, it is very easy and not such a public level. It's very easy to become a hermit and just go dark, even to the people around you who love you the most.

[Chris Harrison]

And I probably did for a little bit. So did you, you know, for sure, for sure. But your kids, you know, when there's people outside your house and stuff, and it's.

[Sage Steele]

I didn't have that.

[Chris Harrison]

It's embarrassing, too. Like, you know, it's embarrassing when, you know, every talk shows talking about you and you're being used, whether it's Fox News or NBC, it's like everybody's making their point. You're like, I don't want any of this. Like, I don't want any of this crap. Like. And it's. It's a little embarrassing because I never wanted to be the story. You know, my whole thing, it's of kind. I think you learn as a sportscaster you're not the story. Don't ever make yourself the story. All of a sudden, I was the story, and that's not me. I actually, bizarrely, don't love the spotlight on me. And so it was everything that I've always fought against. And so there was a little embarrassment. And so I did kind of curl up for a little bit. But then I'm like, yeah, what are you gonna do? I gotta. I gotta live. And so part of that was like, I want to take care of my kids because you want to make sure they're okay and all this.

[Sage Steele]

And they are. And they're thriving on. On honestly, beautiful levels. You've handled it all with grace, even when it was hard. And I just can't thank you enough and for uplifting me during those times, too. I love you. And, lz, you're coming to the wedding. There's no backing out at this point.

[Chris Harrison]

I'm in. I have my tux steam clean. I don't even know what the dress code is. I will have a tux.

[Sage Steele]

Tie.

[Chris Harrison]

I will have a tie.

[Sage Steele]

And the women. Black dresses, too, or you're not invited in. Get out. The guest list, we've been through it.

[Chris Harrison]

We've been through amazing stuff for. For a friendship that has spanned. I don't know. What are we going on? Well over 10 years, 15 years now. We've been through a lot. A lot of great things, bad things, ups and downs, a lot of tears, a lot of joy, but that's what makes it beautiful. Life's a beautiful thing.

[Sage Steele]

So grateful.

[Chris Harrison]

It's been a good journey. Thanks for having me on your show.

[Sage Steele]

No, thank you.

[Chris Harrison]

Thanks for coming to my home.

[Sage Steele]

I was going to say you can kick me out now, but I will put my mouth back underneath the dispenser before we leave. Thank you. Can put shoes back on.

[Chris Harrison]

Good. Do you take the socks? How does that work? How's this work?

[Sage Steele]

Take it with you. Disgusting.