Dave Rubin Says If Republicans Lose the Midterms Trump Has About Five Months Left

Summary

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The Sage Steele Show – Episode Summary

Guest: Dave Rubin
Episode Title: Dave Rubin Says If Republicans Lose the Midterms Trump Has About Five Months Left
Air Date: June 10, 2026
Host: Sage Steele

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Overview

In this wide-ranging and candid discussion, Sage Steele sits down with political commentator and host Dave Rubin for an in-depth conversation about America's current political landscape, the state of the Republican and Democratic parties as the 2026 midterms approach, the evolution of identity politics (especially within LGBTQ issues), and the cultural shifts in key American cities. The episode is filled with personal anecdotes, reflective moments, and energetic banter, offering listeners both political analysis and heartfelt commentary on issues of inclusion, polarization, and common sense.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dave Rubin’s Political Transformation and Philosophy

• Rubin reflects on his journey from "left-wing nut job" (his own words) to being labeled a "conservative," but clarifies he aims to conserve classical liberalism—individual rights, logic and reason, and tolerance.

  "I'm trying to conserve liberalism, actually true liberalism, which is what America was founded upon…I'm trying to conserve the liberal idea of tolerance." (05:04)

• Discusses the fluidity and confusion of political labels, especially for those whose values are a mix of social and economic philosophies.
• Emphasizes the need for common sense in politics:

  "Can we create a party that is named the Party of Common Sense?" (06:53)

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2. 2026 Midterms & Trump’s Political Future

• Rubin lays out a dire prediction if Republicans lose the 2026 midterms:

  "If the Republicans lose the midterms, we have five more months of Trump—that's will derail so quickly…Cause they'll realize MAGA is over and we will have a really, really bad two years." (07:51)

• Notes the coalition of former Trump critics (e.g., Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr., Joe Rogan) now aligning with him, and the need for the movement to pull together to "do the best sales job possible."
• Sage underscores her concern as history usually favors the party not in the White House during midterms, but Trump’s presidency adds unpredictability.

  "Historically what happens, the party that's not in the White House takes midterms. And in this case, because it's Donald Trump…who knows what the Democrats are going to do?" (13:51)

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3. Strengths and Weaknesses in Both Parties

• Republican "deep bench" lauded: JD Vance, Rubio, DeSantis, Hegseth, etc. considered competent successors.
• A "race to the bottom" is described on the Democratic side, with figures like Bernie Sanders criticized for not being "radical enough" for the party’s new base and for standing next to problematic figures.

  "The revolution always eats the revolutionaries…There's always someone that's going to be more radical than you." (16:36)

• Rubin predicts cities will become more liberal "bizarro lands," while "freedom-loving" Americans move to rural areas and states like Florida and Tennessee. (40:53)

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4. Political & Cultural Polarization

• Rubin shares a story about being the only "MAGA guy" in a hostile environment ("Surrounded" on Jubilee), describing the intense animosity and lack of humility among the far-left participants.

  "I could feel knives in me. Some of these people, if they could have killed me, would have killed me." (24:12)

• Discusses extreme shifts in big cities: "every time the Democrats have a crazy person, they vote someone crazier." (41:30)
• Sage and Dave recount mutual frustrations with failed reform and the "habits" of urban voters, questioning if lost cities like New York, LA, and Chicago can ever turn around.

  "I have negative desire, not just zero, negative desire to go to any of them anymore." (43:40)

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5. American Patriotism & National Narrative

• Anticipates America's 250th birthday celebration and the "burst of patriotism" among MAGA supporters, contrasting it with the perceived reluctance of Democratic leaders to celebrate traditional patriotic holidays.

  "What level of patriotism can they show?" (30:49)

• Rubin and Steele mock the ideological "evolution" that rejects even figures like MLK and, soon, Obama, underscoring the performative nature of progressive purity tests. (31:53)

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6. LGBTQIA+ Political Dynamics & Identity Politics

• Rubin voices frustration at the ever-expanding acronym and how the “activist class” cannot stop after achieving key victories (like marriage equality):

  "They got what they wanted and then they immediately moved on to the trans thing. But these things have nothing to do with each other." (58:49)

• Argues that "the trans movement is the most radically anti-gay movement you could possibly come up with."
• Critiques the conflation of sexuality and gender identity as counterproductive, and highlights the lack of connection between L, G, and T in the “community.”

  "Sexuality has nothing to do with gender identity. Literally nothing to do with it." (59:33)

• Emphasizes individual action and respect but rejects compelled ideology:

  "If someone is an adult and wishes to do whatever they want…that's their right. If they treat me with respect, I'll treat them with respect." (62:10)

• Notes the trend of political targeting/ostracism ("conservig"—conservative gay) and how the activist zeitgeist has “no more use for gay men.” (74:19)

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7. Race and Political Party Narratives

• Candid exchange with Sage on the persistent narrative that Democrats have done "more for black people," with Rubin challenging this:

  "If the idea is, well, the Democrats have done more for us, well, then you have to show me what the evidence of that is. And what I can show you is actually the reverse…" (67:11)

• Both criticize the reductive nature of group-based policies and lament the lack of attention to real socioeconomic factors.

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8. Handling Bigotry and Offensive Behavior

• Sage shares a personal story of being called a racial slur recently and how reactions vary, reminding listeners that individual experiences shouldn't indict whole groups.
  (81:52)
• Rubin relates a past experience with homophobic slurs and reflects:

  "It's what you do with all of these things…you're going to hear some bad things in the world, and it's okay. And actually, it'll make you stronger." (84:17)

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9. Sports as a Unifying Cultural Force

• Lighthearted close discussing NBA basketball, nostalgia for past eras, and frustration over the politicization of sports.

  "They've just taken away the thing that is the most pure, that I love the most… And it became about racism all the time." (89:00)

• Both agree that sports, when left alone, offer a unique "escape from everything" and hope the NBA and others return to being "the ultimate uniter." (94:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the state of politics:

  "If we're just a little bit better than them [Democrats], eventually people come to us." —Dave Rubin (08:27)

• On the nature of progressivism:

  "The revolution always eats the revolutionaries." —Dave Rubin (16:36)

• On current political labels:

  "I would rather just consider myself...what I consider most of the people that are now friends with me… we're just kind of like sane, decent people." —Dave Rubin (05:34)

• On polarization and urban decay:

  "Cities are going to be highly controlled Democrat, run kind of backwards bizarro lands and most freedom loving people will live in more rural areas." —Dave Rubin (40:53)

• On LGBTQ activism:

  "They got what they wanted and then they immediately moved on to the trans thing. But these things have nothing to do with each other." —Dave Rubin (58:49)

• On responding to bigotry:

  "It's what you do with all of these things…you’re going to hear some bad things in the world, and it's okay. And actually, it'll make you stronger." —Dave Rubin (84:17)

• On the decay of cities:

  "Every time the Democrats have a crazy person, they vote someone crazier." —Dave Rubin (41:32)

• On political awakening:

  "You have to decide what you want to do with your life and what type of people you want to be around." —Dave Rubin (49:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Rubin’s journey and current political stance – 04:40 to 07:00
• Midterms & Trump's fate – 07:17 to 09:31
• Republican bench vs. Democratic 'race to the bottom' – 14:25 to 16:51
• State of MAGA & the left’s antagonism – 23:04 to 26:22
• Urban polarization & migration trends – 40:53 to 45:06
• Patriotism vs. progressive rejection of tradition – 30:36 to 32:41
• LGBTQ activism & "hostile takeover" by the T/Q+ – 57:22 to 65:01
• Race, party politics, and equality rhetoric – 66:31 (with Stephen A. Smith) to 71:18
• Handling real world bigotry – 81:52 to 85:01
• NBA/sports/politics discussion and nostalgic reflections – 85:11 to 94:50

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Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is direct, unscripted, and occasionally confrontational but remains rooted in mutual respect and deep personal friendship. Both host and guest oscillate between serious analysis, humor, and self-deprecating admissions, fostering a sense of candidness and camaraderie.

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This summary captures the core essence, key arguments, and lived realities voiced by Dave Rubin and Sage Steele, serving as a comprehensive guide for those who haven’t listened to the episode.

Transcript

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[Sage Steele]

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[Dave Rubin]

middle and it was like MAGA guy versus 20 far lefties. And I kid you not, like, it was obvious to me that some of these people, if they could have killed me, would have killed me. How is that related to what we were talking about?

[Sage Steele]

The one, the only, Dave Rubin. Hi, welcome to your studio.

[Dave Rubin]

I don't know if you will be a Republican by the end of this, but I know you will be a Democrat. And his eyes did exactly what your eyes just did. He was like, what? You know, Bernie's just an old school communist now. He's just old and lost in it. Used to go after millionaires, then he became a millionaire, now he goes after billionaires. The point is that the revolution always equals the revolutionary. There's always someone that's going to be more radical than you. I'm trying to conserve the liberal idea of tolerance. The trans triangle was coming both ways, so now it's actually overlapping the rainbow. And this is a perfect metaphor for the whole thing.

[Sage Steele]

When did trans become a thing?

[Dave Rubin]

This will not end well.

[Sage Steele]

The question I'd like to ask is. Welcome to this episode of the Sage Deal Show. If you don't recognize my background, well, you should. It's not my set. It's not my studio. I wish it was, actually. But it is the studio of not just one of my favorite humans on the planet, which is a pretty big statement. One of the, I think, most courageous, bravest, smartest, best political commentators of our time. And I'm not just saying that because I love him, because he's my friend sitting to my lap.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, my gosh, he's drinking already.

[Sage Steele]

Listen, literally, because of where you came from to where he is today, it is truly spectacular, and it is changing the lives of people across the world. The one, the only, Dave Rubin. Hi. Welcome to your studio.

[Dave Rubin]

Wow. I don't even know where to go from that. It was pretty clever of me to put tequila in your mug box before.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, and it's not just any tequila. It is.

[Dave Rubin]

I'm also a tequila salesman. Beyond that. Yeah. Kopal's doing quite well. I like this. First off, I've never sat on this side.

[Sage Steele]

I know. It's weird, isn't it?

[Dave Rubin]

That's always my side. So I've never sat on this side. I'm doing the socks thing for the Sage Steel show, and I've got my Clyde Drexler socks because we're always talking basketball. I had to bust these out of. They were basically in the attic. Yeah, in the memorabilia.

[Sage Steele]

A lot of people don't know who Clyde Drexler is. I mean, we shouldn't.

[Dave Rubin]

Drexler.

[Sage Steele]

We don't like those.

[Dave Rubin]

Ten times star NBA champion.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, stud. All time stud. But not everybody, you know, goes deep on basketball and NBA. I'm going to admit this to you, ladies and gentlemen. I'm kind of off on. On the sock thing lately. I'm figuring out a merch deal. Trust me, it's going to be. It's going to be worth it. But I didn't bring socks with me. So Dave walks into his studio and says, where's your socks? So what did he do? He went and got me socks, which, naturally, are Ultra Maga socks, which is going to get me in all. All kinds of trouble, but who cares?

[Dave Rubin]

Pretty sure it's a little late for that, actually, on that one. Yeah. This is as festive as it gets around here. So we got Clyde, we got Ultra maga. Hope we're not getting him in trouble. We'll be getting in trouble.

[Sage Steele]

You're right. Clyde's like, I don't know these guys. So. Thank you for providing me socks and thank you for allowing us to use your set.

[Dave Rubin]

My pleasure. Thank you for those ridiculously kind words.

[Sage Steele]

No, I mean it. I mean, I. Jokingly. But really not because I mean, so many of us watched your transformation from left wing nut job.

[Dave Rubin]

My words.

[Sage Steele]

Yes to what are you now? I mean, a conservative genius, but otherwise, what would you call yourself?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, I certainly wouldn't say genius. I mean, people, everyone says I'm a conservative now. That's what they say about me constantly. Dave, you're a conservative. Or anything that's written about me, they always say conservative. And I would say I basically am a conservative. But I would add to that. I'm trying to conserve liberalism, actually true liberalism, which is what America was founded upon and what I think is the best holistic set of ideas for people from all walks of life to live in a society together. So I believe in individual rights. I believe in laissez faire economics. I believe in logic and reason and the light touch of government. And that's pretty much how the founders set this thing up. Now, generally with people that are like sort of capital C conservative, then there's a religious attachment to it, which I do have as well. And that's more just in the last couple of years. But I usually don't kind of lead with that also in that I'm married to a man that's not the most conservative thing. But I mean, he was just in here with our kids. And we live a very conservative life. Actually, if you just remove the gender in a sense, which I know is a little confusing for people, but there's quite literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans like me in a very similar situation like that. So I don't know, you know, all these labels are changing. I. I would rather just consider myself what I consider you and what I consider most of the people that I now that are now friends with me in this crazy space that we're in, whether that's Dr. Drew or Jillian Michaels or whoever, which is that we're just kind of like sane, decent people. And whether you and I agree exactly on abortion, which I'm pretty much against, but I could allow for a few weeks or whatever, it's just sort of irrelevant. Like I want to live in a society with people that are different than me. And that's what I'm. So again, that's what I'm trying to conserve now. And that's not thought of as a conservative thing really, but I'm trying to conserve the liberal idea of tolerance. And it's just unfortunate that the progressives use tolerance against our society to turn it so intolerant. How is all that?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, I think it's spot On. And it's fair and common sense. I feel like that's. Can we create a party that is named the Party of Common Sense? Since the answer to that is, yeah, go for it. Good luck. You have to choose one. The party of common sense, if I have to choose one, is being a Republican, being conservative.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. I mean, look, the MAGA thing is basically common sense. It is like, does he believe in borders? Yes. Does he believe in basic law and order? Yes. Or what? Does not even he. What does MAGA generally believe? It's not a perfectly cohesive set of ideals. Like, if you would have went back and said, well, Ronald Reagan's a conservative, so he believes these very specific things, and it would be easy to understand what he believes. Trump, isn't that. Because Trump obviously was a New York liberal in the saner sense of Liberal from the 1980s. Right. And those people now have become sort of sane Republicans in MAGA and brought on the former lefties like Tulsi and Bobby Kennedy and even someone more libertarian, let's say, like Rogan. And unfortunately, the Democrats have just gone in on socialism, communism, a dash of jihadism. I mean, they've just basically packaged all of the worst ideas. And I think all we have to do is just be a little bit better than them, which isn't that difficult, actually. It can be kind of annoying. Right, because they're so terrible all the time, and they're just so hysterical and histrionic and all that stuff. But if we're just a little bit better than them, eventually people come to us. And my hope is that by the midterms, that America's about to have a big birthday. 250 on July 4th. It sounds like the Iran thing's wrapping up before oil prices go down, economies turn along, that everything actually will be okay. Cause if the midterms go the wrong way, Trump's done, like, it's impeachment time. It's everybody jumping ship. Cause they'll realize MAG is over and we will have a really, really bad two years. So he's got five months or so to do the best sales job possible. But it's not just him. It's all of us that have to do that. And again, that's taking a group of people like Bobby and Tulsi, who three years ago were wildly against him and now need him to preserve the things that they believe in. So that's the thing that we're all up against.

[Sage Steele]

I want to go a little bit deeper into that as we progress around the show, but I Wanted to just point out to those of you who might say, wait, she's had him on before. Yes. One of two people that I've seen.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, am I number two?

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. I'm sorry, you're only number two.

[Dave Rubin]

Who's number one?

[Sage Steele]

Riley Gaines.

[Dave Rubin]

That's pretty good.

[Sage Steele]

You're in very good company.

[Dave Rubin]

She's great.

[Sage Steele]

It's because we live. We're basically neighbors in Tennessee too. But I just, it's amazing with Riley. And I know you agree with this. I mean, for a 25 year old kid, I have a 24 year old, you know.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

I mean, she's so impressive, has inspired me in so many ways and is one of the reasons why I'm like, oh, let's go. We're talking about all of it. So when there's so much hope in the youth like Riley. Anyway, my point is rare to have a guest on for a second time. And I also feel like it's rare that we get to. I mean, it's rarely just you and I that are able to sit and talk. And we have our awesome show, Actual Friends with Jillian Michaels and Dr. Drew and the two of us, which you better be subscribing to.

[Dave Rubin]

We have a whole new week. I don't need to pat myself on the back, but I knew it was.

[Sage Steele]

This is all you.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, because first off, when I met you standing right there, when you before, before we had ever met in person and you were coming into my show for the first time, you had just come out of the bathroom over there doing the hair, whatever you were doing, and you came out and you turned around and the second, I've said this on camera before, but the second I saw you, I was like, I've known you forever. I've known you forever. And then we had a great show together. It was the first time we did anything on camera. I cried. You got cried. You cried. Although the more I know you, it's not. You're gonna cry three times. You already cried once today. We already did actual Friends today cry.

[Sage Steele]

The living cry.

[Dave Rubin]

There was, There was tears. We showed up, we busted out your 2015 Indiana University commencement speech and you, you were.

[Sage Steele]

I did. Okay, fine.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. So I've already had you crying once today. And we got a dinner later, so I, I, There's.

[Sage Steele]

With red wine.

[Dave Rubin]

With red wine.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. There's going to be three cries today, I think. Wait, where the hell was I going? Friendship. And then we had a great show together. And then I was heading up to, to West Palm for dinner or Something. And you were like, I'll just drive you. It was a three hour drive, completely out of your way. But you're like. And we just had a Great chat for 3 hours and your kids were calling. And I've said this to you before, but the thing that, like, blew me away about you was that you didn't tell the kids that they were on speakerphone with someone else in the car. You just talked to them normally. They could have said anything to you. They could have.

[Sage Steele]

I was nervous, whatever.

[Dave Rubin]

But you didn't say, hey, I'm in the car with someone, or I'm in the car with Dave Rubin. Watch what you say, or blah. And I was like, that is a mark of someone who is confident as a parent. Like, I was just. I was just impressed. So anyway, we just kind of immediately became friends. And then when I had this idea for actual friends, I was just like, I'm so sick of just endless politics with everyone and drubbing everybody over the head with all this stuff. I want to do something with people that I like. That, yeah, we can do a little bit of it, but I want it to feel another way too. And Gillian and Drew were just perfect. We did try our friend Russell Brand. It was a little harder to get him to stay in one box or shop. Yeah, well, that's what I mean. It was hard. He's just a little harder to get on the calendar. So Gillian and Drew and I adore.

[Sage Steele]

And the best part of it is your whole goal is to have actual people that you do consider friends and have conversations and talk and think. And you all make me think. And that's what you have done from day one, though, is really make me think differently about things. And that's what I want to. I have three topics today that I want to dive into. Some of it we have talked about before. One in particular we have not. And I'm super excited for this.

[Dave Rubin]

This is mostly about my three point skills as a 49 and 11 month old man.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, I mean, you're turning 50 later this month as there is the beginning of June. Later this month. Big blowout bastard. I've not been invited to apparently.

[Dave Rubin]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. There will be.

[Dave Rubin]

There will, there will. There's something cooking. Okay.

[Sage Steele]

Just saying. I mean, listen, once you're in the five zero club, let's go. Life is good. So, yeah, these top think I know your take on and then I need some explanation as well. First and foremost, yes, Politics. Why not the 2028 political landscape as we hit these midterms, which are going to. Listen, I am very concerned. Yeah, I am. You should be, though. Just because historically what happens, the party that's not in the White House takes midterms. And in this case, because it's Donald Trump that is in the White House. To your point, who knows what the Democrats are going to do?

[Dave Rubin]

70% of the time the incumbent president's party loses. Fact has nothing to do with Trump or anything else.

[Sage Steele]

That's just norm that on top of the way things are going today, which could change tomorrow, just controversy with Iran and all of a sudden the economy and gas prices, et cetera. So in the next two years. Yeah, regardless. Which is hard to take the. Regardless of what happens in the midterms, what do you see as the future of our party based on what we've seen these first almost two years?

[Dave Rubin]

It's hard to say with the regardless part.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, it is.

[Dave Rubin]

Because the midterm looms so large. Because as I said before, like, literally, if the Republicans lose the midterms, we have five more months of Trump that's will derail so quickly at that point because they will impeach him. That is their goals stated from day one. Many of these people, that has been their intention all along. I mean, Rashida Tlaib, when she got reelected, said, in effect, I'm being reelected so I can impeach Trump. We'll figure out the crime. You know, find me the man, I'll find you the crime. So it's a little hard to do this out by with completely ignoring the midterms. But what I would say is this. The Republican Party right now has a pretty deep bench. There's a lot of good people and you can order them however you want. We all might have a slightly different order, but could JD if somebody. If Trump fell downstairs tomorrow, God forbid, could JD Take over and be president and be competent? Obviously, yes. If JD Fell down the stairs with Trump, could Rubio step in and be competent and be president? Obviously, yes. If all three of them, I mean, we could do many versions of this. But could DeSantis take over? Obviously. Hegseth has shown himself to be an all star communicator, I think, and great leader, leader of our war team. There's names there that make sense. There's competent people, even if you just look at people that aren't necessarily gonna run for president. Scott Bessant, who's been great, Dr. Oz is doing a nice job. Bobby Kennedy's there. There's all these great people that are in the orbit that you could, I think if you were being objective, you could say, you know, these guys pretty much could do the job and it would be okay. The real issue is that on the other side, it is an endless race to the bottom. Ten years from now, they're gonna look at Bernie and think he was evil because he wasn't radical enough. And you can even feel that with Bernie right now. Like he's with this Platner guy campaigning up in Maine, the guy with the Nazi tattoo who claims he didn't know what it was. I mean, it's just absurd. And Bernie just stands there with him. And Bernie, you know, Bernie's just an old school communist, but it didn't have to do with race and gender and all the other crazy stuff. And now he's just, he's just old and lost in it. And you know, he's also muddled in that he used to go after millionaires, then he became a millionaire, now he goes after billionaires, all that stuff. But the point is that the revolution always eats the revolutionaries, right? There's always someone that's going to be more radical than you, and that's the problem that they have. So there's nobody left to stand up over there.

[Sage Steele]

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[Dave Rubin]

The first time I had Bobby Kennedy on the show was on Zoom. He was still running as a Democrat, and I had never spoke to him before. And I said to him in the interview, I said, I don't know if you will be a Republican by the end of this, but I know you won't be a Democrat. And his eyes did exactly what your eyes just did. He was like, what? And of course, three months later, he was no longer a Democrat. And I don't know that he calls himself a Republican now, but he's in a Republican administration. So that's the point. I mean, to get it to where the first question you asked me about liberalism, like, there's just nobody left. There's no adults in the room and they don't know how to stop it now. And that's why, you know, we talk about Bill Maher all the time, who we're both friends with. I admire Bill's, I admire that he's standing there and saying, I haven't changed. And here's what I believe. My, my frustration with him, which we talk about privately all the time and we've talked about publicly, is that unfortunately, I think you're just defending the wrong party. You know, like there's just a piece of that. But I suppose that's somewhat admirable that he's trying to do that, that, that there's a use for that.

[Sage Steele]

Defend.

[Dave Rubin]

Trying to say to the Democrats, stop being so crazy. I'm one of you.

[Sage Steele]

Okay.

[Dave Rubin]

You know what I mean? They're not going to listen.

[Sage Steele]

Defending.

[Dave Rubin]

It's not defending exactly, but he's basically saying, hey, I'm a liberal. We used to all be liberals.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Dave Rubin]

What happened to liberalism? But again, this is where I've just sort of, I view politics as maybe more of a like that you have to really be on a road that makes sense. Where I think he, you know, Bill's also, and this is not a knock on him, I love him. You know, he's a lifelong bachelor, almost 70 years old, doesn't have kids. It's a little bit easier to just have your sort of ideas versus maybe if he was younger and had a family. And that's not a knock. Jordan Peterson actually discussed that with him on Club Random. If you haven't seen it it's brilliant. Because Bill, they really. It's a very hard thing to talk about. Right. Like whether he had regrets in life about not getting married and things of that nature. And it was really, really deep. So I don't mean that as a knock in any way, but I think it's a little bit easier maybe when you don't have certain attachments to be like, well, I'm still a Democrat. But because it's not your kids that they're trying to brainwash in school or you have certain, you know, if you're worth a gajillion dollars, you have some defenses. Right. Like that's why every time I go to la, it's like, man, do you guys in the hills think that they'll never burn these hills down. They've already destroyed. I mean, I sent you a picture of someone that we know that you. I sent you a picture of someone that you and I know from the industry, who I saw on Santa Monica Avenue, who is now. Or Santa Monica Boulevard, who is now a junkie, a full on junkie. Someone that you and I. Yeah, we can leave.

[Sage Steele]

The second that you sent me the picture, I haven't seen him in year and a half, two years, and immediately he zoomed in and went, oh, my gosh. And without knowing what he was doing, seeing in the picture, I knew what he was doing and it broke my heart.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And that is the state of Los Angeles that has gotten that way because of the people that they continue to elect.

[Dave Rubin]

Right. So that. So that's where to me, the rubber meets the road. And if I was Bill, I would like. If I was Bill and I still lived in la, right now I'd be fighting so freaking hard for Spencer Pratt the way I did for Larry Elder to get rid of Newsom. It failed miserably. Like Callie, within one minute of the polls closing, they announced we were at a party hoping that Larry was going to win. And within one minute, we knew it was over. But. Well, that's partly why I left right now. The phase of life I'm in now, I'd rather fight for a place, which is what I'm doing here, partly why I'm doing the show with Desantis. But it's worthy fighting against something. But to me, it's like, if you're going to be there and be sane, you better be fighting because otherwise they will burn the hills down one day.

[Sage Steele]

When we talk about the future of the party, it seems like eons ago that we were leading up to the election and it's almost two years now. When you and I and Michael Knowles and Phoenix sat at Madison Square Garden for that final Trump rally before the election, it was so, so much fun. Like, you felt such electricity in the building, and that seems like decades ago. Honestly, Dave, because of the way the party has behaved, are there certain characters that have been out there and more vocal than others? Absolutely. But being MAGA two years ago was okay. I don't see as many red hats or dark MAGA hats out there anymore because now there's such a more. More of a negative connotation, and you have a lot more people that are literally out there saying, this isn't what I voted for. What in your mind has changed?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, first off, nothing is new and cool and avant garde forever. That's just reality. So even if, let's say, Trump was doing everything everyone could want right now, and I'm on board, probably 99% of it, so I don't feel what I. I'll address what you're saying, but because I know a certain set of people are feeling it, I personally don't feel it. I think there's a limited amount of things that someone can do. I think he's doing as much as

[Sage Steele]

he can, and what he did in just his first six months is expensive. And then another six months goes and you forget you're frozen of the moment.

[Dave Rubin]

So that was the next thing I was getting into, which is a speed issue that we are so hit with information in such a fast way, we don't even have time to realize the wins. You know, I just did this ridiculous. I think you'll air this around the same time I did this ridiculous surrounded show. You know, this thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was. You haven't done it, have you?

[Sage Steele]

I have no desire to do that show.

[Dave Rubin]

Do not do was utterly. It has nothing to do with anything that was said. The amount of hatred that I was surrounded by, it was me. I literally could feel. I could feel knives in me.

[Sage Steele]

So it's like. It's like, is it the same as Jubilee?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, no, it's the Jubilee thing.

[Sage Steele]

It is surrounded. It's on Jubilee. Got it, got it, got it.

[Dave Rubin]

And so it's me sitting in the middle and it was like MAGA guy versus 20 far lefties. And I kid you not, like, it was obvious to me that some of these people, if they could have killed me, would have killed me. Joey, you know, Joey, one of my guys here, he was with me and he said to me, after he said, dave, I made a decision halfway through that if one of them attacked you, I was gonna get involved. Cause I know the security guys wouldn't have done anything. And then it was just crazy things they're saying the entire time. It seemed to me that several of them were on drugs. Like, it was just so. It was just so out of whack. Wait, how was that related to what we were talking about?

[Sage Steele]

This is why I love talking to Dave.

[Dave Rubin]

Ruby, I'm so in it with you. Wait, where were we? What was the point to that? About how crazy they've all gone.

[Sage Steele]

Well, and maga and how now it's softened and.

[Dave Rubin]

Right, so they're completely deranged by maga. That was the point. Completely, completely deranged by maga. Anything that Trump does, they think is evil. What I said to one of the kids, they're children, too. That's the other thing. They're in their early 20s, and they think they know everything about everything. And there's not even the slightest bit of humility. And oddly, and this was the most disturbing part, the ones that smiled at me were the ones that I thought were the most evil, because it was like the Joker smiling at you.

[Sage Steele]

Really?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. So there were certain ones that it was just. They just. Obviously you hated me or scowling at me, sending, like, evil beams through your eyes. But the ones that smiled were actually the ones that I was like, oh, this guy might have a knife in his jacket or something. But one of the things that I said to one of them. I don't even remember which one, because it's like it was just like a blur. It was just like a ridiculous blur. It doesn't matter. Was if Trump had done nothing else, closing the border already would have made this a successful presidency. We were being invaded. We were being invaded. Simple as that. There is a. I'm not even a big Game of Thrones guy, but there's a reason they were building a wall to keep the White Walkers out. Right. And it's like we were allowing our country doesn't mean that all of those people were bad. But if you let in 16 to 20 million people in four years on top of about 12 million illegals that we already know we have, and then it's like, how many others that we

[Sage Steele]

don't even know about?

[Dave Rubin]

Okay, so that's around 30 million people. We're a country of 350 million people. So we're at about 8% of the population is illegal. Like, that's not going to work. Over time, putting aside drugs, putting aside all the Bad actors that could be sending people through and terrorism and all those things, like, it just can't work. So one of the things I said was, look, if he had done nothing else, that would already be a win. And they can't, you know, they don't grant you anything. There's no excuse. Yeah, there's not. One moment. But the point is that between the border, between getting these trade deals, virtually every trade deal, including China, has now come back more favorable to us. Did Trump get everything he wanted? All of them? I'm sure no, but we were getting screwed every which way. When we were selling cheese to Canada, it was under a 70% tariff, but they could sell cheese to us for free. How does that make any sense? And then we foot the bill for NATO and everything else. Else. So I, I just think we have to somehow convince people, not convince them. We have to show people that Donald Trump has done an awful lot of good. He. It doesn't stay cool forever. That's basically what you're asking me. Like, how do you change the, the optics? You know, and yes, I get it. There's a certain set of like woke right people or whatever that are involved in this too, and they're just radically against him. And now they've. In weird way, they have more in common with the lefties. That's the horses theory of politics. It's why Tucker actually sounds like a leftist all the time right now. He never criticizes AOC or Mamdami, but he'll go after Ted Cruz and Mike Huckabee and Donald Trump and everything else. Makes you wonder. We just have to show people. I would say two things. One is, well, the alternative is we hand it to the communists. So if that's what you'd like, if you'd like to upend all of this in 250 years, which is pretty short life for a country, we could do it and we could do it on our watch and. All right, let's move on. So that's one way and then the other way is. But that there has been some good things happening here. And as I'm always talking about on actual friends, we're on this incredible AI horizon. There's so many cool things happening in the future. The way we're going to change medicine and travel and science, and there's so many amazing things about to happen that we have to have a little imagination, we have to have a little bit of hope and like aspiration. They're selling hope and aspiration. But it's like Obama hope sort of it's just like it's hope. Like everyone will have everything affordable and that's hope. But it's not really. It's that they're going to control you. We should be selling freedom better. And I have a feeling that's going to kind of get through the system as we get closer.

[Sage Steele]

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[Dave Rubin]

But think about the juxtaposition there. So now you're gonna have basically 80% of America, let's say, but certainly the maga side of America. American flag's gonna be out all the time. There's gonna be huge shows and programs. Are you gonna be in D.C. for the 4th? You'll probably.

[Sage Steele]

No, I'm gonna be at home.

[Dave Rubin]

Are you going home? All right, yeah, I'm gonna go for some of the stuff, but there's gonna be this great burst of patriotism, right? Yes, obviously. Obviously. What can. Can AOC or Bernie or Mamdami or any of these guys show up to these things? What level of patriotism can they show?

[Sage Steele]

You know, how about Tim Walls over Memorial Day?

[Dave Rubin]

What did he do? What did he do?

[Sage Steele]

I forgot where he did actually go, but he decided at the last second to not go to a Memorial Day celebration and did something in this city. I don't know if it was lgbtq, I don't know what it was, but it was a decision to not. There's only a couple days a year, guys, for these politicians out there and these leaders that it's okay, even as a lefty, to uplift, but not country. That's what I'm saying. But that's what I hope people need to realize. Memorial Day, fourth of July, Veterans Day, mlk, they're okay with MLK Day.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, right. They like him. Okay?

[Sage Steele]

We're not asking much and probably they won't.

[Dave Rubin]

They won't like him over time either. It's how they're going to turn on Obama too.

[Sage Steele]

But if they do their homework on what Martin Luther King Jr. Stood for, then they should hate him.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, ironically, because their whole project is the reverse of judging someone based on the content of the character, not the

[Sage Steele]

color of their skin, to feel like, I mean, what he did stand for, certainly that, but also just some of the things he believed in politically were definitely center right. I mean, Republican, was he Republican? So I think if they stop and do their homework, well, they wouldn't like it. They wouldn't like what they learned and they would somehow find a way to twist it. What I.

[Dave Rubin]

They're very evolved. Sage.

[Sage Steele]

Yes, they.

[Dave Rubin]

Everyone that came before them was some sort of backwards idiot. And people didn't know how to communicate. People didn't know how to do anything. And they were always racist and buffoons and these 22 year olds with purple hair, they actually understand more about the world than all of us. And if we could only follow them, then perhaps we could get to Utopia.

[Sage Steele]

The world would be such a better place.

[Dave Rubin]

Wouldn't that be great? Wouldn't that be great?

[Sage Steele]

You know, I'm watching when you talk about the future of our party. Is Spencer Pratt a Republican?

[Dave Rubin]

I don't even think it matters. I mean, I guess he's a Republican in the way we're describing common sense

[Sage Steele]

as Republican and don't even. I think he has to. You have to choose something to run as Democrat, Republican. I guess you could be an Independent to try to trick the Democrats into thinking that. No, no, no, I'm not a Republican. All I know is that. What is he doing? He's speaking common sense. By the time this airs, I don't know if he. If that election will have taken place in Los Angeles or not for a couple days. Yeah. Okay. So it's gonna be right there regardless. Regardless of what happens. And remember, we went from like 0.05% chance of him winning the mayoral election, Los Angeles to now. I think the last I saw it was 27 or 30% chances, which is shocking in Los Angeles. But the whole. The fact that Spencer Pratt, who. Most people. Many people. I didn't even know who he was because I didn't spend time watching reality shows back 20 years ago when he made the name. I did. I don't now, but I did. No, the fact that someone like him, number one, chose to educate himself, if only because of what he went through in Los Angeles, including losing his home to the Palisades fire. Fine, whatever it takes. But he's choosing to do what you said earlier. He's choosing to stand up and fight and try to save his home, basically, would be all of Los Angeles. And that does give me hope that others see this, and Republican, I don't care what you call him, but he's the opposite of who has been leading that state on every level. And so he's kind of on our side, is what it feels like common sense. And so that does give me hope for our future as a party. Because of his youth, because of his energy, because of his use of AI, because of how he's chosen to campaign, win or lose, honestly. So I think that he's changing things.

[Dave Rubin]

I hope you're right. And you know me, I'm a glass half full guy, right? Like, I just painted a picture that will lead to. I can very easily paint a picture that will lead to a Republican win in the midterms, which nobody is talking about. I'm really trying to show people that if you fight for it properly and message it properly. However, in la, it is so. Cali is so Democrat dominated. And LA is so bananas. Democrat.

[Sage Steele]

Remember, Dave lived there for how long?

[Dave Rubin]

And I lived there, there for eight years, six great years. And the day Covid started, it all fell apart in one day. I knew it. I knew it. And then I told you on day 15 of two weeks, to flatten the curve or stop the spread or whatever it was. We were watching Golden Girls on TV Land and a commercial came on about the new normal and I was like, we have to leave.

[Sage Steele]

It hit you.

[Dave Rubin]

Because I was like, these commercials are in the can.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, yeah.

[Dave Rubin]

Meaning they've been produced already and somehow you were producing new normal commercials even though it was two weeks. Yeah, like we gotta. And I'm not a crazy conspiracy guy or anything. I did end up staying another year past that and fighting with Larry, fighting for Larry Elder to replace Newsom and all that stuff. But speaking of Larry Elder, I saw him in LA two weeks ago. And this is born and bred in la. His dad from la. He is a great human being and has fought for all the right things forever. I mean, he told me Spencer Pratt has zero chance. And his point was, it's not about the ideas. It's simply the numbers that you need so many Democrats to wake up. So many. It would just basically be impossible.

[Sage Steele]

We also have to assume that everything involved in voting and the machines, et cetera, are honest.

[Dave Rubin]

Sure. So you have to hope that, too. And in that town, you know, when I voted for Larry Elder during the recall, it was during COVID and they were doing the mail in ballots to everybody. So we got mail in ballots to our house. But I was like, no, I'm going to vote in person and I'm not going to wear a mask and they can yell at me and all that. I went in to the polling place and I went up and I started taking my ID out of my wallet. I kid you not, the guy recognized me and he goes, dave, we don't do IDs. But. But he did it in a way that was like, almost like he was going to get in trouble if he happened to recognize me, but as if he was going to get in trouble. So that all you needed, all you needed was your name and your address. Which means that I could have the next day gone to another polling place or just hoped that that guy wasn't there. And I know my neighbor's name and address and could have said that. And then get this on the mail in ballots, no matter which way you folded it, you know, it's like a threefold thing. No matter which way you folded it, if you filled out Larry Elder's name, it could be seen through the envelope, I kid you not.

[Sage Steele]

So then they can take it and throw it away.

[Dave Rubin]

So they. Right. So I don't know if they did that, but I'm just telling you, no matter which way you folded it, it would be seen on either side of the envelope very easily. Easily, very easily. So the whole system over there feels crazy, but there just May not be enough good people left or sensible people left. Good maybe isn't there.

[Sage Steele]

And I understand why that's your home. And every time I'm in California, I'm like, we were at the Reagan Ranch last month and Santa Barbara. I mean, absolutely. And it's stunning, and the people are kind and not as much purple. And I was like, oh, I get it. I get why you pay the crazy taxes and deal with the cash because you can stay in your little pocket and not leave Orange County. Like, I get it. And I don't. But I do. I do understand why people, if that's your home, why you say, no, I can't leave. And you just bury your head in the sand and know that your vote will actually never matter. Just. It just kind of breaks my heart. But I do. Real quick, I want to tell a Florida story. When I moved here full time in 2024, before the election, I went to register to vote in Broward county, and I had three forms of ID and all my things saved up and everything filled out, voted registration. And I walked in, and there was no one else there that was trying to sign up. But There were about 45 to 50 employees behind the glass. All of them were Haitian. It's interesting. Haitian or Jamaican? And I walked up and I handed her my voter registration, and I was getting ready to sign it, and I pulled out my IDs and proof of residency and all that. You know, it's like going to get it to the DMV for a driver's license. If you don't have all your stuff, they're gonna send you home. I was like, okay, I'm prepared. I'm ready. And I walk in, I handed it to her, and I started to get. She's like, okay, thanks, accent. And I said, no, don't you need to. And she's like, no, you're fine. I go, what do you mean? And I'm like, what are you talking. I thought it was a joke. I'm like, Candid Camera, because all these

[Dave Rubin]

people are watching me weirdly.

[Sage Steele]

And they said, no, you're fine. I go, no, but don't you need to confirm that I am the. This person who lives at this address in Fort Lauderdale? And she's like, no. I go, what's your proof? She goes, well, you signed it. Wow.

[Dave Rubin]

Even here, Broward Blue, right? You say Broward, that Broward's blue?

[Sage Steele]

Yes. But point is, so I reported it, and I've said it on air a couple of times in hopes that people say, even if you're in a good state, you know, the free state of Florida, you've got to check because there's so much, I call it evil, where they actually don't believe in anything, the constitution, et cetera. When an unexpected pregnancy happens, the focus is almost always on the mother and dads. Too often they're overlooked, pushed to the side, left feeling like their voice doesn't matter. Maybe that's how you would feel too. You want to be supportive, you want to do the right thing. But fear sets in. Questions start racing. Can I really do this? Can I be a good father? That's exactly how John felt me, a dad that didn't even feel possible. He said, I didn't know the first thing about being a good father. But then we found preborn, we talked to people who cared and got a free ultrasound. And that's when it all came together for me that we could do this, that I could do this. Today you can help another father experience that same moment of hope. For just $28, you can sponsor an ultrasound through preborn and help expectant parents see a future filled with life, compassion and the hope of God's love. To donate, dial pound250 and say baby that's 250 baby. Or visit preborn.comsage that's preborn.comsage Sponsored by Preborn.

[Dave Rubin]

That goes to show that there are pockets of insanity, even insane places. Right. Like we're gonna what I think ultimately will happen. I see almost no way around this. This isn't purely like Democrat Republican but I think that basically cities are going to be highly controlled Democrat, run kind of backwards bizarro lands and most freedom loving people will live in more rural areas. You know I live in Miami but I'm not in Brickell city center. I'm in a more. It's not rural here but I'm in a more you might say community oriented. Like it's not high rises everywhere.

[Sage Steele]

Right.

[Dave Rubin]

I think places where there's high population density they are just going to have hyper controlled people, sort of like 15 minute city stuff and they will have bad leaders because there's just no evidence that they're turning it around anywhere. You hear me say this on actual friends every week but every time the Democrats have a crazy person, they vote someone crazier. Lori Lightfoot was as bad as you could get in Chicago and then they bring in Brandon Johnson. Jasmine Crockett was as bad as you could get in Texas and now they're going with this Talarico person. Bill de BLASIO is horrible. Then they bring in Eric Adams, and now they've got Mombami. Garcetti was terrible bowing before blm. And now they've got Karen Bass. We can do a million more of these that for whatever the Seattle. Remember we played that clip on actual friends. Seattle had a mayor, I don't even remember his name, who basically was like, well, we don't want to incarcerate people. If someone did a crime, I wanted to know if they were molested as a child. And it's like, what?

[Sage Steele]

That's so stupid.

[Dave Rubin]

What? And now the woman they have is even worse than him.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, she's even worse. Which is shocking.

[Dave Rubin]

She's even worse. So. But it's not shocking. That's the thing. For whatever reason, it's actually not shocking because at some point, if you just keep seeing it in all of these cities over and over and over again, it's like the day of Rudy Giuliani coming to New York and cleaning it up. That seems very long ago. My grandparents and great grandparents lived in New York City. We lived in Long island. And we would go in and I remember going in when I was, you know, like 10, when Koch was still in charge. And he was basically a moderate Democrat, which would be considered. He would be MAGA now. He would just be in this kind of wide tent MAGA thing. And the city was basically good then. They had four years of a guy that Mamda Me says was the first Democrat socialist, which was David Dinkins, that he took destroyed the city. I remember. I swear to you, I remember. We would drive through the Midtown Tunnel from Long island into the city. You'd dump out there at like 35th and 3rd or something. And then there would be just homeless people everywhere, trying to wash your windows and with the garbage everywhere. And then you couldn't go to Times Square. And they had four disastrous years. Crime went crazy, murders went nuts. And then Rudy Giuliani, fresh off taking out the Mafia in New York, cleaned it up. And then they had 20 great years between him and Bloomberg, and now they've thrown it away.

[Sage Steele]

That's what I was going to wrap this part of the conversation on, the future of the Republican Party, et cetera, was when you look at those cities, which are three of my favorites. Well, they were. Let's go past tense, especially Chicago, because as a Midwesterner for my end of high school and college years, that was our New York. It was gettable. You could get there and you could go to Wrigley Field and shop and the Summers were incredible. Winters avoided at all costs at the lake. And I have negative desire, not just zero desire, negative desire to go to any of them anymore. And I'm to the point also glass half full person, where I think they're too far gone to bring back, if for no other reason, because of the habits. That's what it is. When I was talking to Steve Hilton about this as he gets set for a potential gubernatorial run, it's how do you change the habits of these people who deep down don't agree with everything the Democratic Party is doing, but can't bring themselves to break free from the chains of what their families say they should do, what they have always done. So are we on the same page? Do you have hope that these three cities in particular, in order, New York, Louisiana. Chicago, this is the top three television markets in the country. We know what their mayors are. They have done. They've gone from bad to even worse, which we didn't think was possible. Do you have hope that they can somehow turn themselves around?

[Dave Rubin]

New York has a lot of pain coming. A lot of pain.

[Sage Steele]

Self inflicted pain.

[Dave Rubin]

Self inflicted pain. First off, the amount of people that they've pushed out and businesses they've pushed out and the Ken Griffin thing with Mamdani doing that commercial at his pied a terre is completely insane. Completely insane. They've pushed out so many people and that at some point, nothing is forever. So at some point, well, New York just won't be the financial capital of the world. It could be Miami.

[Sage Steele]

But I'm walking around today.

[Dave Rubin]

But it might be Shanghai.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, true. But I'm walking around today, here. And Dave and I were like, my Dave? There's many, many Daves in my life.

[Dave Rubin]

Many days your Dave, who's wearing the exact same shirt as me, same pants, same shoes. Yeah, it's weird.

[Sage Steele]

So cute.

[Dave Rubin]

He didn't have the Clyde socks, though.

[Sage Steele]

I got a pair for you walking around today. And I was like, look at this. And what they've done in the building, building, building. I have a place downtown Miami. And I'm like, this, this is. I said it didn't. I was like, this is going to be the new New York. Especially as Mamdani makes it so clear that he has no use for you. He's going to tax the living crap out of you to convince you to move, to bring everybody else who's struggling lower to depend on him more. Like we know how this is going to turn out. Could this be the answer?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, so that sort of gets to my point is at some point there just aren't numbers. You know, like we used to be in like a 50, 50 society for the most part, you know, and you could be Republican or conservative and live in a big city and it would basically be fine or whatever. And now with the, with the amount of transfer that has happened with people, Florida has 2.3 million more people now than it did during COVID 2.3, 2.3 million people have moved here since COVID Cali has lost over a million people. Now Cali still has a huge amount of Republicans, but they have no voting power because they always lose. And it's a super majority state. These cities are purging out all the people. So we'll go out and we're going to go out in Coconut Grove tonight. It's a really nice area in Miami. But what's interesting is there's restaurants everywhere, there's people on the street everywhere. You're not, I guarantee you you're not going to see one homeless person. You're not going to see one transient person. You're going to see people happy, laughing on the street. You're going to see bars overflowing with people, restaurants waiting for people to get in. Like it's flourishing. But it's not a coincidence. It's not a coincidence. So that's why I think that the problem is now that the separation has already happened. And in New York, do you have enough good people? The old New Yorker doesn't exist anymore. Like the guy that talked like this and when I got a slice of pizza and then I'm going to have a bagel and then I'm going to. He's not there anymore. I forget what the exact numbers are. But wasn't it something like 20 something percent of the people that voted for Mamdami were new to New York, were first generation in New York. It might even be more than that. I'm sure the Internet will fact check me on that or maybe the guys could check on that for us. So the whole culture of the place has changed. So New York I think is deeply, deeply screwed. La, this is like their last chance because the drug and homeless thing is so out of control there in New York. I will say they have a homeless issue, but it's not like a meth. You don't see methed out people everywhere like you do in San Francisco and la. Philadelphia, Philly has a ton of that. San Francisco is ground zero for that. Portland has a ton of it. Seattle has a ton of it. New York actually doesn't Have a ton of that. I think they have another problem because the mayor, beyond the communism stuff, and I mean, I think the Islamism stuff is a huge, huge problem. And congratulations, you'll push out. There's about a million Jews that live there and you'll push them out. And they're generally successful people who do all sorts of good things for culture and a million other things. And good luck with all of that. And then Chicago, Chicago I know the least of, except for the murder numbers, which every week at 15 to 20 to 30 people get shot in Chicago every weekend. It's black on black crime, so nobody says a word about it. And is there any reason to think, I mean, this Brandon Johnson, he's as racist as you could possibly get.

[Sage Steele]

He's racist. He's also. What's a nice way to say idiot? Like he's an idiot.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, he's just terrible.

[Sage Steele]

It's terrible. And I'm just. Again, Lori Lightfoot, who knew think about that they could go, yeah, but again, an incredible city that they have allowed this.

[Dave Rubin]

So the question is hope. Well, the question is, do you just fight? Do you fight and fight and fight.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, Spencer Pratt and many people in LA county are fighting, but what did Larry Elder tell you?

[Dave Rubin]

No. So Larry just said the numbers, the registration of Democrats, Republicans in that city and the numbers, there's just no way. Now, hopefully Larry's wrong and hopefully whether this comes out the day before, the day after or whatever it is, hopefully I'm wrong too for listening to him. But he's got a pretty good track record on these things and he knows a bit about the electorate there. But it's an interesting philosophical question. What do you do when the place around you that you maybe were born in or moved to or loved or raised your family or whatever, when it really starts collapsing, you can fight to an extent. And then you do have to decide what you want to do with your life and what type of people you want to be around. And I can tell you that when I was in LA for the last year during COVID not only it was miserable because of. We were never miserable because we were happy and we were still seeing friends and like living as normally. Yeah, living as normally as you could and all that stuff, but every time we'd have people over for dinner, all anyone talked about was leaving or how bad it was or anything else. We're not going to do that tonight in Florida. Florida, you can talk about all kinds of other. You can talk about art and culture and music and sports and everything.

[Sage Steele]

Else, arguably the most diverse. One of the top three most diverse. Diverse cities in America, too. And it's like, yes, you can be diverse and impressive. Miami.

[Dave Rubin]

I'm sorry to do this in Spanish tonight. We definitely could.

[Sage Steele]

Uno, dos.

[Dave Rubin]

Uno, dos. So it's good. Okay. I don't know what accent that was. Okay.

[Sage Steele]

I was just in Italy.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, you will. Right, right, right. Okay.

[Sage Steele]

And I then I said, gracias. I was like, wait. They was like, no, it's grazi. It's fine. Just. I need an espresso. That's all I need. Yeah. It's just people think that you. I hate that they took the word progressive like liberal equals progressive. As if we are. Because we're the opposite. We want to stay back in the 1940s, which is just not true. But you can have common sense and still be progressive thinking and tolerant and diverse.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, sure, I don't even care about diverse. But like to. You can be. You should want to progress towards equality, and that's basically progress towards equality. You should progress towards equality. And then when you get equality, when everyone is treated equally under law. Yeah. We all start at different places. We all are given different things. We're all born with different skills. Some people are born into money and blow it all. Some people are born with nothing and are the great stories that we all love. But there's nothing a society can do to fix all that. And if you think a society can rejigger it so that we'll all end up equal on the other side, we're going to have to kill an awful lot of people. That's why communism kills people. We're all going to be equal at the end. Well, you're going to have to kill a huge set of people who want to live their own lives. So progression. Yeah. Progressing to a goal. And the goal of a society should be equality. And we have done that in the United States of America. We simply have. And I'm sorry if that's not good enough for some people. And they seem to want to upend everything because of that. But.

[Sage Steele]

But this is when I say, if you hate it so much and you choose to sit during the national anthem and all the things that people do. Which is. Which is. You're right. But if it's that bad, why are you staying?

[Dave Rubin]

No, nobody goes, please go.

[Sage Steele]

Or they go Ellen DeGeneres. And they come right back.

[Dave Rubin]

Right. The only two lesbians leave temporarily. We had. Rosie left. She went to Ireland. I think she's on her way back now. And Ellen went to England. And she's on her way.

[Sage Steele]

They're on the way.

[Dave Rubin]

So suddenly, I guess they were like, oh, you know, this European jihad isn't so great.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, it's amazing. Okay, so MAGA might look and feel a little bit different, but if we focus on the common sense nature that it was based on to make America great again, that is a positive thing. The bench is deep, which I've always thought that as well. And my goodness, this is a completely different administration than it was for his first term for 45. It's completely different. It's. I think he's done, overall, a great job and good luck in those blue Cities. New York, L.A. chicago. I agree with you. People are just going to continue to say, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm going to go to Florida. I'm going to go to Tennessee. I'm going to go to Texas. I'm going to go to Nevada. Because they need to continue, apparently, to go deeper down to hell in order to realize it while.

[Dave Rubin]

And then the question is, do these people ever realize it? It's kind of like Plato's cave. You don't know what's outside of the cave when you're in it. So will they ever even realize it? And I think a lot of them don't. A lot of them don't. I was talking to a friend who lives in New York City, who's a business guy, like, successful guy, family, lives in the suburbs, but works in the city. And we had a drink when I was in New York a couple weeks ago, and I was like, well, so how's it going here? And he's like, you know, it's like, well, I don't take the subway anymore because that's not really safe. I mean, he's like, worked out, like, this is a normal guy. Like, you know. And he was like, well, I don't take the subway anymore. And I was like, well. But he's like, but besides that, you know, I guess things aren't quite as busy as they used to be, but, you know, it's basically okay. But it's like, that's quite a concession. You don't take public transportation anymore?

[Sage Steele]

Because I might get shoved on the track.

[Dave Rubin]

Because you might get shoved on the tracks, right?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Dave Rubin]

So it's like, okay, well, that happens slowly. And then a year later, you're like, well, you know, I don't really go out at night, let's say. Or I don't, whatever. And then you just concede a whole bunch of things, and then you don't even realize that there are places that it's not like that. And that really is the issue.

[Sage Steele]

And that's your choice. You know, my mother said years ago, and my mother is born and raised in Massachusetts. That whole thing, if you're young and you're Republican, conservative, you don't have a heart. If you're old and liberal, you don't have a mind. And I think that stands truer. I don't know what old is. Fine, I'm old. Call me what you want. I'll take that one. Okay, we have hope. It's okay to put that MAGA hat back on. You've probably heard me talk about one skin before, but I'll be honest, this is one of those products that really changed how I think about skin care. I've never been somebody with a complicated routine. I really like to keep things simple. But at a certain point you start to notice your skin just is not keeping up the way it used to. That's exactly where one skin came in for me. It actually works differently than anything else else I've tried. So I've been using their OS1 in my daily routine. And what stood out right away wasn't just the super lightweight, super clean feel of the product itself, but that over time, my skin actually started to look healthier, smoother, more even, and yes, a little more firm. Let me tell you why it works. So as we age some skin cells, they call them zombie cells, they just stop functioning properly. That's what leads to things like fine lines and dullness. OneSkin's OS1 peptide was specifically designed to target those cells. So you're not just masking the signs of aging, you're actually addressing what's causing them. If you're not already using sunscreen daily, Oneskin's face SPF is the best place to start. It's got those same skin care benefits from the OS1 peptide, while also giving you mineral SPF protection from UV exposure, which is a major factor in making us look older faster. So with this, you're protecting against future UV damage while reversing the visible effects of past summers full of sun. It's simple, it's effective, and it's something I've even recommended to friends who are now using it as well. Oneskin's results are backed by four peer reviewed clinical studies, over 10,000 five star reviews, and they've been recognized by Bloomberg as a leader in skin longevity. You really don't need a complicated routine to get healthier, younger looking skin born from over a Decade of longevity research. OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. So for a limited time, try one skin with 15% off using code SAGE at OneSkin CO. Sage. That's 15% off OneSkin CO with the Code Sage. And after you purchase, they're gonna ask you where you heard about them. Please support the Sage Deal show. Tell them we sent you topic number two.

[Dave Rubin]

Yes.

[Sage Steele]

LGBTQIA plus I need to take a breath in between because it's such a long acronym now. And I guess. Why did you roll your eyes? Why did you say ugh? Why'd you say yes?

[Dave Rubin]

I'm just like, I'm so sick of this topic. People always, you know, one way or another, it somehow is brought up relative to me. But you know me well enough that it just happens to be a facet of my life and not something that ever. That ever defined me, nor should define me now or anything else. And they've made it so political. And they've combined these letters that have nothing to do with each other.

[Sage Steele]

That's why I bring it up, because I love it. You always say things so clearly. And for me it's just been confusing because we keep adding letters and now symbols.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, we don't. They do. And we just react to a lot of this. That's the problem too.

[Sage Steele]

But. And then we're gonna need bigger non standard sized flags because the colors, there's not enough colors in the rainbow. I don't ask you because you're a gay man. I ask you because you have watched the evolution, living in the cities and which you've lived from New York and then Los Angeles, and you pay attention to these kind of things. Why? Why? The addition, the constant addition and then the takeover. As Dave Rubin says, the L and the G has been taken over by the T and the.

[Dave Rubin]

And the plus and the Q plus

[Sage Steele]

and the Q help.

[Dave Rubin]

You know why Sage? Because as Chris Rock said, the cops need a certain amount of crime. That's why the march towards marriage equality, whether you believe in it or not, from a religious perspective, but from a secular perspective that we are governed under the Constitution of the United States, which guarantees individual liberties and individual rights and equal protection under law. That was a march to equality that I think was just. And it should have ended there. They should have stopped. But the activist class cannot stop. There is a massive machine behind the nonprofit activist class. And whether it's Glad or the Human Rights Commission or all of These things, they don't want to get real jobs. Okay, guys, we did it. Nobody, nobody, ever. We're going to shut. We're going to close our doors. Well, we did the thing we've been fighting to do for 30 years. No, they immediately. That's why it's so bizarre. They got what they wanted and then they immediately moved on to the trans thing. But these things have nothing to do with each other. Sexuality has nothing to do with gender identity. Literally nothing to do with it. And as a matter of fact, I think you could argue, I think it's empirically true, that the trans movement is the most radically anti gay movement you could possibly come up with. Because usually you're just taking effeminate boys or girls that we used to call, you know, like, tomboys, Tom girls, whatever, and you're trying to trans them because they don't fit societal norms. Right? So their act and as it relates to all in general, what you. That you would chemically castrate kids and all these things, that has nothing to do with. With what the gay activist of 1981 in New York City who just wanted to go to a bar to meet somebody and didn't want the bar to have to be a speakeasy underground with a special password and no windows. That was something worth fighting for. This thing is completely off the rails and completely different. And I was on with our friend Stephen A. Smith a couple last week or two weeks ago, and he keeps saying that he's big on LGBTQ rights. And I tried to make the point, well, you got to stop doing this thing with the letters because you're also telling me you don't want boys and girls, sports, and all the other sane stuff. And I think I did move him on that, and I hope he'll change some of the language about that, because these things have just nothing to do with each other. Right? Like you should have people that have equal rights. Scott Besant happens to be gay. He happens to be married. He happens to have kids. Okay? Who cares? Is he good Treasury Secretary or not?

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Dave Rubin]

Simple as that. Nobody cares. Who else? I mean, we could think of a million of these people. Like Douglas Murray is gay. Okay? Who cares? He's the most brilliant historian that we probably have on the face of the earth. There's a gajillion of these people, and they should only be judged on their actions and their thoughts and words and not the sexuality. So it's really. So that's why it's just so ridiculous to me. I can't give you Any more insight into the mind of a trans person than you can. I can have sympathy for somebody that is confused about their gender identity. And to me, if someone is an adult and wishes to do whatever they want with their body or change their name or dress however they want, that's their right to do it. And if they treat me with respect, I'll treat them with respect. As a matter of fact, when I did this surrounded thing, I went up against what I was told. Well, it was unclear to me whether it was a trans person or just a drag queen, which. That's different. Meaning a trans person supposedly has undergone some level of biological. Not biological, undergone either some sort of hormonal or literal physical surgeries. Whatever. It was unclear to me whether this was just a guy that was. And I didn't want to ask, and maybe I should have actually for viral purposes.

[Sage Steele]

What are you.

[Dave Rubin]

But I didn't. But what I did say to. I said her. I said, I will use your pronouns right now, because if you respect me, I'll respect you. And I wanted to try to grant a little respect there. I don't think it really worked. I'm pretty sure it did not work at all. But I think you can lead with some of that. That is not me saying that I think a man is a woman, a man is not a woman, and a man cannot become a woman. If a man who is 21 years old wishes to dress as a woman and put on a wig and whatever, that's their right. We're gonna jail them for doing that. That doesn't make sense to me. So most of us don't care. Yeah. Most people just come.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. And even if you disagree with this or that, you just don't care. Just do what you do.

[Dave Rubin]

Or you might care, but you generally don't want to legislate other people's lives.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. Yes. The whole. You do you. You know, it's fascinating, though. I don't recall I graduated from high school in 1990. I don't. I don't even know what a trans person was. It was not discussed. I liken it a little bit to allergies. Okay. Peanut allergies were not a thing. We could bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to school. It was not a thing on an airplane. And now all of a sudden, it's like, well, where did this come from?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

When did trans become a thing?

[Dave Rubin]

No, it literally was when gay marriage got. It was two months later, if not the next day. The activist class had to move on to something else. They have to keep the donations going, they have to keep the. Because they were using it as a crudgel in a way against the Republicans. And it was working. It really was working. Republicans are bigots, they're racist, they're homophobes, blah blah, blah. Well, okay, now we got equality. But we still need the weapon, the political weapon. But okay, it's not going to work anymore. Gay people got marriage, so it's not going to work. Let's find the next weapon. And the next weapon became the trans thing. That's why there probably has never been a issue that has been talked about more. While it affects so few people, it's so out of whack with the amount of people that it is affected by. And the fact that the feminists have thrown all the women. I mean you talk about it all the time. The feminists have thrown all the girls under the bus. Completely insane. Completely insane. And then, you know, what's her name? Rapinow and somebody and Sue Bird and all these. I used to play basketball every now and again with Sue Bird. We went to the same. Grew up in the same town. Her mom was the nurse at my high school. Like she was an awesome basketball player. Awesome basketball player. But she probably couldn't have played on the guys team. Maybe at the school level. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. But she certainly couldn't have played on a college team and definitely could have played in the NBA. And now she's out there basically saying guys should play in the wnba. She didn't have to play against any guys.

[Sage Steele]

Remember her wife or maybe ex wife

[Dave Rubin]

now wait, is that rapping now? Are they married?

[Sage Steele]

Rapinoe?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. So they're married or were married.

[Sage Steele]

I thought they were married. They might have just been life partners, I don't know. But remember when Megan Rapinoe and the, the women's team. Scissors. You did not just say sorry.

[Dave Rubin]

All right? I had to do something there. It was killing me just to. You want me to.

[Sage Steele]

Scissors sister.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Okay, the visual. Where's the tequila? Where is the tequila? No. Remember that when the women's national team played a UK team in Texas and lost?

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And it's. There's no shame in that. It's okay because we are different. Guess what? I can do things you can't. I can give birth. Well, you can't chest feed. You can't do any of that stuff. You can try.

[Dave Rubin]

I cannot do it. You're not going to want to try, nor pretend to try.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah, when it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want, like, all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. No, I. And the reason I wanted to talk about it is because of. I think people are afraid to not say all the letters. Dave. Yeah, and if you say just stop

[Dave Rubin]

doing it, that's why I really pushed it on Stephen A. Because I don't think.

[Sage Steele]

I love that you said that.

[Dave Rubin]

I don't think his audience ever hears that. And for whatever reason, when I said to him, well, why are you still a Democrat? Or whatever, he basically was like, it was about the black community and the LGBT thing. And I really tried to disassemble both. So we already did the LGBT thing. And then when he kept saying these, well, the Republicans never do anything for the black people. Like, well, what do you want them to do?

[Sage Steele]

I don't need you to do things for me. It's so offensive.

[Dave Rubin]

Right?

[Sage Steele]

Like, and the fact that black people say.

[Dave Rubin]

That conversation with him, I kept saying, I'm gonna try. I kept saying, well, I think black people are like everybody else. And if you want to help other

[Sage Steele]

people, this is a white man telling a black man, no, I think he's like everybody else. You're trying to convince him that he's like everybody else.

[Dave Rubin]

So if the idea is, well, the Democrats have done more for us, well, then you have to show me what the evidence of that is. And what I can show you is actually the reverse, which is that it's the Democrats who have instituted all of the big government policies that kept people in perpetual poverty, that created generational poverty, that put people in subsidized housing that people couldn't get out of New York, L.A. chicago, which disproportionately affected black people. And that is just a fact. And then on top of that, they won't address gun crime in Chicago and all that. So the idea that you want the government to do something for you based on your ethnicity or your skin color is sort of absurd. We all want. We can only do it one way, which is that we have to have equality. So what you would want, if you want to help black people, which I suppose is a lofty goal in that you would want to help all people, well, then you would do it by creating the economic conditions for people to succeed. So you Know, I have a feeling that if a black person wanted to own a business, you might want to create conditions that there would be less regulation or there would be less taxes or that the streets might be safe or there wouldn't be someone on super meth masturbating outside the store. Those would be the type of things that I would try to do if I wanted to help black people. And that's what's happening in Republican cities. But it's not sold as we're trying to help black people. So that's what I was trying to show him, that he's more concerned about the packaging than the actual fruits of the policies.

[Sage Steele]

I think he still is trying to toe that line and not piss them off too much on the left, keep them in his pocket a little bit. And then certainly some of the things he has said, and I think he means them genuinely, I've known him for 20 years. Yeah, he means as far as some of the more conservative leaning policies, like, he's not just saying that he believes in those things, but he's got to kind of, he's smart, he's got to kind of keep it. But I do want to, and I will continue to push that. Like what other group is completely just, I want to help black people. Do you say I want to help?

[Dave Rubin]

Right. Well, that's the thing. It sounds absurd.

[Sage Steele]

We want to help Asians, not black. Like what, what are we doing? And it just, it sounds like a load of crap because, you know, deep down it should, we, we all know, it should be all of us. Right?

[Dave Rubin]

And, and the more that you help, the more you actually create dependence. I grew up in a mostly white and, or Jewish neighborhood. Are Jews whites anymore? I'm not even sure. Even though there's plenty of black Jews. I know a lot of them. But, but even putting all that aside, but, but then I would say after that, then, then it was Koreans usually. And almost every friend that I had that was Korean, their parents owned a bodega or some kind of little store, shoe cleaning, something in the neighborhood. They just owned something. And we never saw their parents because they were working, working, working. I never saw their parents. Everyone used to come to my house because my mom, my dad was working and my mom worked before she had the three of us. And then when my sister, who's the youngest, was of age, my mom went back to work. But for the, for that 15 year period, my mom didn't work. And there was always food when we came home and everybody came to play at our house. And play video games and blah, blah, blah. My Korean friends, we almost never went to their houses because the parents weren't there because they were working. So no one gave. No one was like, we're going to give the Koreans something extra. They saw, okay, here's America. Here's what opportunity is. Go get it. So it's the Democrats who have hampered to whatever extent the black community, whatever that is, feels hampered. You should look at the Democrats who did that. You might also want to think about the history of the Republican Party, which was basically formed as an anti slavery party. But I know that's very confusing and parties flip all the time and everything else.

[Sage Steele]

So it's so deep. I mean, all of these topics are. I think they're going to continue, unfortunately, maybe forever. But I have hope that we can continue to have these conversations and maybe break down all of this stuff. And the. We don't need 16 letters and symbols to define a community. Can I ask one question? Because I don't know. I don't know this answer. Do you know this answer? Someone else asked me recently, what's the cue? What is. I know what it is. Queer. How is that different?

[Dave Rubin]

Nobody knows. It doesn't even matter. Nobody knows. They change things. Two spirit. Nobody knows. It doesn't mean anything.

[Sage Steele]

How is queer different from trans? Different from, like, I don't.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, because. Well, in some sense it's because they want it to be a political ideology. It has to be a set of views, not necessarily who you sleep with. Years ago, years ago, about. It's gotta be 10 years ago. Out magazine or advocate. Someone can check on this. Put Peter Thiel on the COVID and the headline said something like, Peter Thiel's not gay. Because what they were saying was he's a Trump supporter. So that as a Republican, that basically supersedes or overrides his sexuality. Because they want you to think sexuality is an ideology, not a biological reality. Right. So none of these things mean anything. But I'll tell you, when I was in la, if you go to West Hollywood, which was the gayest place on earth and it used to be flourishing, and businesses booming and bars and restaurants everywhere, it's a ghost town right now. Drug addicts everywhere. That's where the picture that I sent you of that guy, that's where it was. That was the coolest, hottest area in all of la. They have those rainbow crosswalks. So when I used to live in West Hollywood, we just happened to live there. It wasn't because of anything gay. We didn't even know anything about la. We just found a little place that we liked and happened to be there when we lived there. They had the rainbow crosswalks, but it was just the rainbow, Dorothy. Over the rainbow. Just a straight old fashioned rainbow. Right? Then over the. You know, maybe five years ago, they put the pink triangle in for the tramp. Right? And the brown and the pink is for trans. Well, yeah, the tri. I guess the pink and the white is the trans. And then they put the brown. The brown is for black, which makes no sense. Cause the whole idea is for black people.

[Sage Steele]

It's my flag.

[Dave Rubin]

Right? Because the whole idea was you could make some argument for the rainbow flag, meaning it has the colors of the rainbow, everyone's involved. There was no racial connotation.

[Sage Steele]

That must mean a black trans slash queer person.

[Dave Rubin]

Right? Well, that's what it is, right? So they throw in the trans thing.

[Sage Steele]

Cause I have my own Kwanzaa flag or something, don't I?

[Dave Rubin]

I would you celebrate quantum?

[Sage Steele]

No, stupid.

[Dave Rubin]

Right. So, but wait, so get this. So then like five years ago, I remember they put the trans triangle onto the rainbow thing. And then that was at the crosswalk when I went this time, the trans triangle was coming both ways. So now it's actually overlapping like the rainbow. And this is a perfect metaphor for the whole thing. The rainbow is actually getting smaller. And now. And it's the trans flag coming both ways that's now eating up the rainbow. Because that's the only thing that's valuable anymore for them. It doesn't make. They have no. The lgbtq. They have no use for gay men anymore. Gay men who are largely successful and work hard and do things and aren't really discriminated against, even though they want them to be. They don't have any use for you anymore. Because the more that you realize you're not under their thumb, you're going to start voting another way. They call them conserves. There's a lot of them.

[Sage Steele]

Shut up. I haven't.

[Dave Rubin]

That's what they call them. That's another word for you.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, my God.

[Dave Rubin]

This is. That's a word that makes more sense than I'm part of the LGBT community. What the hell does that mean? But conservig actually makes sense. I'm a gay who happens to be conservative. That. That actually makes some sense.

[Sage Steele]

Why does it have to be a. A name?

[Dave Rubin]

It doesn't. But I'm just. I'm just offering you something. We're doing the name thing. If. No, if you were being cheeky, you could just Say, well, I'm a conservative. You know, I would just. I'm a conservative. I like low taxes and there's a lot of. And I happen to be gay.

[Sage Steele]

Why did you say it in that voice? Date?

[Dave Rubin]

I don't know. I don't know what. I don't even know what that voice was. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

For I have so many friends who are saying exactly what you're saying, and it's more recent. And that's why I love the conversation where some of my gay friends are the L and the G. What can gays and lesbians do to say, wait a minute. No.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, that's it.

[Sage Steele]

Why?

[Dave Rubin]

That's it. There's nothing else.

[Sage Steele]

Just talk about it.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, just talk about it.

[Sage Steele]

Just talk about it.

[Dave Rubin]

And it just has nothing to. When anyone ever says to me the LGBT thing, I'm just like, I don't know that those letters have nothing to do with each other. And as I said to you before, if anything, those letters are oppositional to

[Sage Steele]

each other because I hate that it's taking. It's unnecessarily adding so much more drama and confusion to gays and lesbians who are living their own lives, happily, doing their own thing, voting however the hell they want.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. How sad it is that. Imagine if a black person had to vote Democrat. Well, basically, we do well in a lot of people's minds, but the idea that some sort of immutable characteristic would be the thing that forces you to vote a certain way is crazy. So that's where the confusion, I think, with Stephen A's framing of this is a little bit, is that it's not that they should pander to you and say, you as a group of people, this is what I will give you. All of us actually are the same. So the only thing that matters to. I would imagine that it would. Well, here's a great example. The German AFT Party, which is thought of as the far right racist party of Germany. Do you know who it's led by? Her name is Alice Wedel. I think I'm getting it right. And she is a married lesbian. Married to a woman who has, I think, two daughters. And I heard her speak at CPAC Hungary about two months ago, and she was going on and on about how they must stop illegal immigration, but really Islamic immigration. Now you might. Was she racist? Is this married lesbian leading the right wing party of Germany? Is she racist? Or is she realizing that there might be. Be a problem if you let in a whole bunch of radical Muslims into your society? It's not going to go that well for the lesbians. And that's just a fact. So when you see aoc, as we saw just a few days ago from when we're airing this, you know, wearing the Muslim, not the burqa, but she was wearing the Muslim headscarf, the hijab, it's like, where were the queers for Palestine that day when they had thousands of Muslim men print, you know, on this, kneeling on the street. Where were the gays? Is Palestine not invited to that? So this will not end well. This will not end well.

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[Sage Steele]

would like to ask. Yeah, it just breaks my heart. But the question I'd like to ask is, and not to you, just in general, what rights? Maybe I'm missing something. What rights do heterosexuals have that gays don't?

[Dave Rubin]

None.

[Sage Steele]

So they have to continue to add letters and symbols.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

And the problem is that people keep getting sucked in. And I liken it again to a lot of black America as well. And what rights don't you have? What opportunities do you not have?

[Dave Rubin]

They've tricked people into thinking that. That because there may be some level of discrimination or you have some perceived discrimination or that someone was mean to you once or whatever it might be, that somehow the world has to be reordered to fix that. And that's the craziest kind of authoritarian impulse. Sometimes people are mean to me. You're not going to believe it. And sometimes people say very bad things to Me online and blah, blah, blah, as they have said to you. Okay, okay, I will move on. If the government was saying black people can't have these. If the government was. This is the irony of what the Democrats are doing. We're trying to do the sayback now. Trump's trying to get this thing across. And what do the Democrats keep calling it? Jim Crow 2.0.

[Sage Steele]

Yes.

[Dave Rubin]

Jim Crow laws literally were racist. They said black people cannot do certain things. This literally says the reverse, that we are all going to be treated equally and have to have an I to vote. The Louisiana SCOTUS case from a few weeks ago, they decided that racial gerrymandering should be illegal. Of course it should be. A district shouldn't be decided on the color of the skin of the people that live there. They took racism out of the system and now the Democrats are screaming. The same people who have been yelling at us about systemic racism for the last 20 years are suddenly yelling about that. And the irony is what happened in Tennessee when they did it? Well, Steve Cohen, who's white, he lost his seat.

[Sage Steele]

It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.

[Dave Rubin]

It's so boring.

[Sage Steele]

It is. But the problem is, listen, not even the problem. I mean, you gotta give them credit, you gotta give Democrats credit because it is working. When they say the true lies, spewing lies and people go hook, line and sinker and believe em, they don't have to work that hard. And so I gotta give them credit for taking advantage of people who are choosing, choosing to be clueless on these topics that when it's right there in front of them, if you read it,

[Dave Rubin]

you know, the one that drives me the craziest is the very fine people hoax. And Barack Obama, the day before the election, got up and gave a stump speech for Kamala Harris and repeated the hoax again that Donald Trump was saying. There's very fine people on both sides talking about white supremacists. And the next line out of Trump's mouth was, I'm not talking about the white supremacists or the neo Nazis who should be condemned. Totally. And Barack. So then you have to say, so what is Barack Obama doing? Is he either completely, he has no idea what he's talking about, he has just completely no idea what he's talking about. And his speechwriters don't know what they're talking about and nobody has a clue and nobody's ever seen the Internet and they don't know what they're saying or are they doing the most Manipulative, callous, cynical thing you could possibly do, which is using lies and manipulation for, in this case, political. And the answer is some of the

[Sage Steele]

smartest evil people that I've seen. Yeah, last week. I'll end on this and we're gonna wrap on something fun. I was in Florida Panhandle. I'm in Florida now, but it was way up there. It's like a different country up there. It's beautiful and stunning. And a group of us family and friends were walking to dinner and this truck passes by, pickup truck with a bunch of looked like late teen, early 20 year old boys in it, young men. And not once, but twice, kid leaned out the window. N word really screamed it twice. One of my brothers was walking ahead of us and then me, and then my husband, my daughter and some friends. Everyone else is white and it hadn't happened to me. And yeah, oh my gosh, forever and ever and ever. And my friend who was with me, white, blonde hair, blue eyes, she looked at me and was like, I mean, she stopped. She got tears in her eyes. She was livid and hurt for me. And I was shocked. And my brother who lived in West Hollywood until quite recently, and he's like, whatever. Another day in the life. And I'm somewhere in the middle of that. My point is it doesn't mean all white people are bad, doesn't mean all young teenagers are bad, doesn't mean everybody in Florida is bad. There are always going to be bad seeds in every community, every culture. And if we choose to say, look, that means everybody, it's irresponsible and it's wrong and you're doing it for, I think sometimes unethical reasons, even emotional, certainly, but unethical reasons when you're trying to win something else. But we all experience it, we all do. And what you choose to do with it, that, that's the key.

[Dave Rubin]

That's the key. Because also you do have to remember at the end of the day, it's just a word. I remember about 12 or 13 years ago, David and I were in Philly for a weekend and we walked out of a bar and there were some drunk guys and they, they were like faggots. Faggots. Like, I don't even know how they knew we were gay. I don't know if they were holding hands or anything. We were just walking down the street. But they're like faggots. And I swear to you, I remember thinking at that moment, moment, like, okay, should I just. Well, first off, am I gonna fight? Like, am I about to get into a fight, but I was like, I was like, should I be offended by this? Like, what should I. Like it. Like it was all happening in real time. Like, what should. What should by me react? So some loser just yelled faggot. Like, so should I start screaming and go crazy and get into a fight? Or it's just like, well, that says a lot more about him than it says about me. And that's what you need to. I mean, I know you understand it, but like, so was this kid a genuine racist? Were they just a troll? Like, are they. Were they just drunk? Like, none of that excuses anything other than to say it's what you do with all of these things you can't solve. We are never going to solve racism. We are never. People will never like gays. That's okay. It's just. Okay. And we just have to, like, we have to keep modeling for people. Like, guys, you're going to hear some bad things in the, in the world, and it's okay. And actually it'll make you. And it will be hurtful, but it might make you stronger. It actually might make you stronger.

[Sage Steele]

Absolutely. And so I just, I feel like it is, it's. It's a choice. And I love the way that you've chosen to handle a million things. And thank you for letting me go there though, because I do think in every way it's a hostile takeover of so many things are just unnecessary. So. Okay, finally, since we started with sports, kind of based on your socks, we need to end on that. But I don't know how positive it is because at the end of the day, we've had so many basketball conversations. And then of course, a lot of trash talking by Dave Rubin saying he's a 49¾ year old man who's the best shooter on the court and plays. Like you said, I play basketball.

[Dave Rubin]

Does your date have any skills? Because before dinner we could bust out.

[Sage Steele]

Are you serious?

[Dave Rubin]

Get the ball out there, see what happens. Oh, he's nodding yes. He is taller than me.

[Sage Steele]

Do you have clothes? Cause you look nice. And we can't go to dinner in sweaty clothes.

[Dave Rubin]

All right, we'll pace. Maybe just 10 quick shots. We'll see.

[Sage Steele]

Okay. Okay. There will be a video rolling. Trust me.

[Dave Rubin]

I have beat Stephen A. Smith twice on camera, which even though it's on camera, he claims he didn't lose either time.

[Sage Steele]

And I too. And he walked away like he tried. He still had his little swagger. He's like, good shot.

[Dave Rubin]

Yes. I'd Much prefer to talk about that

[Sage Steele]

I'm so sad about. Honestly. Let me start positive. I feel like I got to cover the NBA during the Ben. Aside from the Jordan era, which I actually did get to cover the end of the Jordan era in the mid to late 90s in the Eastern Conference finals runs between him and the Pacers and everything. It was awesome to be able to interview him.

[Dave Rubin]

Were you at the Reggie Miller push off?

[Sage Steele]

I was not. I was not worthy to be sent on that to that game. But I was watching from home.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah, I remember watching that one.

[Sage Steele]

I mean just the nine points and eight zag, blah blah. Yeah, amazing.

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[Sage Steele]

This is the only time I can watch.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Is the finals.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Conference finals and finals now. Because it's like, okay, it's exciting. The best two teams because they don't even play until March. Ish. Anyway, yeah, the numbers, I don't know what they're going to be in 2025, 2026. But the numbers have continued to go like this because. Why?

[Dave Rubin]

Well, a lot. Well, it's a lot of the woke stuff for sure. It's also, you know, some, some of it though is not that. Some of it also is just that people are just distracted by a million things now. Like people. People aren't going to games as much. I think baseball long term has a much bigger problem than basketball stadiums are so huge.

[Sage Steele]

And my question for you is being like not just a huge basketball fan, but he's borderline historian. Okay, this one. How much do you watch NBA?

[Dave Rubin]

Nothing. I haven't watched one minute.

[Sage Steele]

It's your favorite sport by far.

[Dave Rubin]

I haven't watched. I've watched. I've seen, seen little clips on Instagram. So I saw Wemby had that awesome crossover and then like the guy's 7 foot 4 and he's shooting a 3 5. Like I mean it almost crazy. It's just bananas. So I know that there are great players. You know one thing that's like, it's funny something about Getting older. Where I could see why one day you're sitting on the front lawn going, get off my front lawn. Like when I watch highlights now. The gather step did not exist. They all travel almost every single play.

[Sage Steele]

Carry the ball.

[Dave Rubin]

They carry the ball. Ball. There's so much one on one dribbling. They're chucking threes all the time. I mean, this is where you sound. You sound like an old person. But you know, if you watch, there's a. Maybe I sent this to you. There's a great clip on Instagram of if you watch the spurs. So probably the finals that you covered. So Spurs 2013. Yeah, 2013. You watch that team with Manu and Tony Parker and Duncan and whoever else. They had a couple great guys. There was that guy that I hate, Bruce Bowen, who was a real page pain in the ass, and a couple, couple other guys.

[Sage Steele]

I worked with him for a while. Yes.

[Dave Rubin]

Well, he didn't. He. He was famous for sticking his foot out when got.

[Sage Steele]

But then like shot Bob.

[Dave Rubin]

Oh, and of course Robert, who I love from the rocket days. But they had such a great team. But if you watch them play, I. There's this great Instagram video where you see how they're just moving the ball and it's beautiful. It's just beautiful. It's no dribbling and it's wide. You're like, holy cow, how'd they do this? And now you watch and it's just everybody doing James Harden and the point guard for the Clippers years ago. Who does he even play anymore? Chris Paul. And it's just like this endless dribbling thing. And yeah, it's really cool that you can do all those things, but just chucking threes gather step these pump fakes and then three more steps. And so it's like I watch and I'm like, well, I guess this is entertain. I watch these highlights, not the games. I literally am not watching a full game because, well, it turned me off, really. It was during COVID and BLM stuff. I was like, I can't take this because it was just, just every time I turn on inside the NBA. And I love, loved Barkley particularly I liked him more as a broadcaster actually than a player. And Kenny Smith is great and Ernie was great and even Shaq I didn't think was as good, but it was just fun. And then it became about racism all the time. And I was like, this is literally the reverse of why I watch sports. They've just taken away the thing that is the most pure that I Love the most. That ball right there was used in a Blazers game in 1992 and they just ruined it. So, you know, and then the BLM logo is on the thing and then all the stupid Covid stuff and. And it kind of went across all the sports. So it wasn't just the NBA. I think the NBA. The NBA had. It had like a particularly perverse version of it. But now it's. So now when I watch, I'm just like, is this even basketball anymore? Like, so I watch, I watch. Watched the old game.

[Sage Steele]

Nick's in it. I mean, was that your original team?

[Dave Rubin]

No, because when I. So it's funny, I grew up in Long island and you had to pay extra to get MSG channel, but. Because the Nets used to be Long Island Nets, now they're the Brooklyn Nets. And for all the years they were the New Jersey Nets. But so we used to get sports channel, which. So you'd get the Nets for free. So. When I was first becoming a basketball fan, I was a fan of the Nets who suck. Remember they had like 20 years. They sucked. They had like Rick Mahorn and like three players. They were horrible. But I was a Nets fan first. And then what got me really into basketball was I saw one playoff game. I remember I was on a boat. There was somehow a TV. It was the 1990. It was the 1990 Western Conference finals, game seven, spurs versus Blazers in Portland. And it went to overtime. And I was watching Clyde and I was like, this guy, he dribbles with his head down. It doesn't even seem like he's paying attention. And he had like 30, 15 and 9 and they won in overtime. And then I just. So I just love that Blazers team. And then I tell you, because I'm such a dork with all this, I'm walking around New York City last week and I see Buck Williams, who. He was the power forward on the Blazers, who was a great player in his own right, but nobody would really recognize him.

[Sage Steele]

Recognize him.

[Dave Rubin]

You think? Most people would because he wasn't like, oh, would not. No.

[Sage Steele]

That's why I was like, dave, who is this?

[Dave Rubin]

He was maybe a two time all star. Yeah. You didn't.

[Sage Steele]

No, I recognize the face. I'm like, I should know and I have no idea. Dave Rubin, I'm the sportscaster. And you're telling me who he is.

[Dave Rubin]

You know, it's.

[Sage Steele]

It was amazing.

[Dave Rubin]

I've met, you know, I've literally interviewed presidents and I've met prime ministers and like all these things and nothing. Yeah. When I met Trump for the first time. That was like. I was like, that's the thing. Shit. Like sitting at Mar A Lago at a table with him. I was like, wow, this is awesome. But pretty much besides that, none of it really hits me that way. But I saw Buck Williams and I was like, buck, man, this is awesome. And I'm like, babbling. I'm like. And Carl Malone, offensive foul on you. And he's like, is this guy insane? So I miss. I miss that. I. So now I play. I mean, I play three times a week, three hours a pop. And that's why it's been nice to sit in this odd position this whole time, because my hips are all banged.

[Sage Steele]

Well, but you. But you even. I mean, you've had the injuries that you had, the knee injury, Stem cells.

[Dave Rubin]

Stem cells for anyone that blows out anything. I had 15 tears, meniscus, ACL, all the. Whatever the other things were over here. 15 tears. I did stem cells with Dr. Richard, who's in. He's here in Florida now. And. And I'm. I was playing with a metal brace, you know, like the full on, like, transformers thing for 10 years, and I play with nothing. I. I do. I wear a compression thing, but I don't even need that. That I'm just doing out of habit at this point. You're great, and it's great. I get to play and I get to play with these guys who have. Some of the guys are. I think the oldest guy we play with is65.

[Sage Steele]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Dave Rubin]

And then I'm playing with their kids now, too, so especially in the summer, the kids come. So now we have the kids at 20 playing with the old guys. And, you know, everyone, when the kids are good, they know how to pace it properly, so you're not going to kill anybody. But that's also one of the reasons that I've really been trying to get in better shape and everything, because my kids are three and I'm 49. I want to be able to play in 15 years, which is really good. So in 15 years I'll be 66. So I'm behind. Or. No, I'll be. I'll be 64. So I'm. I'm a little behind the eight on that. So.

[Sage Steele]

So first of all, it's impressive. Secondly, I have not seen it in person.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

So I'll actually report back to you on how impressive it actually is.

[Dave Rubin]

Yeah. But when you see guys that have been playing together for 40, 50 years, that's the most beautiful. So Beautiful like the, the rhythm they have together. And that you can see. You can see these like moments where they're like, oh, you. You're like, oh, I know how good you were.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. And you know what? I bet not one person talks politics on the court.

[Dave Rubin]

Never.

[Sage Steele]

I bet no one talks about rainbow flags and no one talks about what's happening in Chicago. And Brandon Johnson and that 21 people were shot over more than a weekend. Like, no one. What did we say earlier today on actual Friends? Sports has always been the ultimate uniter and the safe space, which is why I hope the NBA learns its lesson. Just stop. Let us watch the beauty of this game.

[Dave Rubin]

You want me to watch some of the finals?

[Sage Steele]

I do. I want to text you about it because you find it. Not many people I know now can actually talk basketball.

[Dave Rubin]

Okay. Okay. Okay. So, all right, so it's the Knicks and now it's spurs or okc. Is that where we're at as we do this now? Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Yeah. And I would love. Listen, I would love it to be the Spurs. OKC got theirs last year. They beat my Pacers. And this Wemby kid seems to be an awesome kid. But like, like we've never seen anything like this. It's incredible to watch. And so if it's Spurs, Knicks, and as we're watching this ghost spurs. Sorry, no. That's 27 years with the Knicks and I will say this, Mike Brown, their head coach, no one gives him the love that he deserves. I think he's going to go down, down as one of the all time greats considering what he's done with several different teams now. And crazy. First he took Cleveland to the Finals when LeBron was.

[Dave Rubin]

When it was just LeBron and nobody.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. And then he went to the Lakers for five minutes. Literally it was like five games and crazy. And then he was with the warriors during their big stretch with Kevin Durant as an associated coach. Amazing. Amazing. What do you think with the Sacramento Kings? Like one of the worst franchises historically. I mean, got them to the playoffs a couple of years ago.

[Dave Rubin]

The Kings, like they were done anything terrible forever. Yeah.

[Sage Steele]

Yes. And now Nick's in his first year. Like, he's incredible. See no one else. I could. I don't even think my husband cares about. About this conversation. Like this. This is like. It's amazing to me. So. And why, why is this fun? Because it is an escape from everything. And I. Let's watch the finals together. Texting. Kind of like we did the debate in 2024 with Joe Biden. And Donald Trump.

[Dave Rubin]

Yes, let's do that. You know. Well, you know, I'm doing this show on June 11th here in Miami with DeSantis and a few other people, and I wanted you to do it, but you're. Oh, you're back at your alma mater that night. I am, but I wanted my original first two guests that I wanted to do with you and Stephen A. Because I just thought that the mix of that would just be so great for some of the reasons we've talked about here. You couldn't do it because you're going back to your alma mater and Stephen A's doing the NBA Finals.

[Sage Steele]

So I was like, all right, good excuse.

[Dave Rubin]

I'll give you a pass.

[Sage Steele]

Alma mater and basketball. That's it.

[Dave Rubin]

You get the pass on that one.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you for being willing to, first of all, allow me to come in and bombard your set.

[Dave Rubin]

Anytime, anytime.

[Sage Steele]

Full of set goals. This is goals as we create mine back in Tennessee. And for always. Like, you make me better. You really do. To be able to go deeper into topics and ask you anything. I mean it. You're the best. And I value our friendship so much. I'm not crying.

[Dave Rubin]

He's not crying. No, no. All right, now I'm gonna really have to work it at dinner tonight.

[Sage Steele]

Red wine. Thanks.

[Dave Rubin]

Evan. Red wine's gonna make you cry. We're gonna get you a little emotional. Yeah. Red wine. Yes. We got the yes out of Dave. All right. All right. We'll see what we can do.

[Sage Steele]

Thank you. You're the best.

[Dave Rubin]

You are sa.